If I felt I could trust the Labour Party to ensure that this DNA data is not misused then I would have no problem with this proposal.

Unfortunately, I don't trust Labour one iota.

The New World Order Brigade at it again, people......make the right choice in may and wake up.....you wont get a second chance :)

Terror Storm, watched by millions, for those that have not ......here it is :) http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=786048453686176...

Can Bliars dna be traced to iraq?

Cathy Jamieson and the remainder of the totalitarian numpties in New labour are at it again. What is it with New labour and this control freakery? Is it a hang back from the communist roots of many of them, like John Reid?

They want to have total control over all our movements, and have all our personal details on a massive data base. Joe Stalin and Hitler would have loved to have been able to do this. The numpties want to control even the minutest of details of and concerning peoples private lives, regardless of the fact that they are breaching out human rights in the process.

In the unlikely event that the numpties, complete with their Whig lap dogs, manage to retain control in Scotland after May, and actually bring this Stasi/KGB proposal into being, I hope someone manages to take them to the Court of Human Rights.

In another article in this paper today, there is a quote from David Hume, "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." The people of Scotland would do well to remember this come May.

Comment@5 Guga. Quote: In another article in this paper today, there is a quote from David Hume, "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." The people of Scotland would do well to remember this come May..........nice one mate :)

i agree with the dna of convicted criminals such as murderers rapists and violent offenders being kept for ever but the innocent should not be. no government anywhere can be trusted when it wants to go against its citizens civil rights and freedoms, vote labour out , only vote for those parties which do not advocate big brother policies.

If you people let them away with this then you all deserve everything that comes your way. You must be the only country in the world where third rate politicians can stand up and talk crap - without presenting any solid facts that show there is a benefit for the PEOPLE - and not then be subjected to any meaningful revolt from ordinary people. To ensure that they do not get away with this stupid plan, you might need to get some French farmers across the water to teach your people that citizens are supposed to play an important role in the governing of their country, besides tick a box on a sheet of paper.

Out of all the European countries, you Scots must be the meakest when it comes to standing up for yourselves. But I guess if you put up with being forced to have new nuclear power when your country clearly does not need it and new nuclear weapons that expose your countries hypocrysy to the world then this infringement of your liberties is small fry.

I read all over this forum "come next May". We shall see. I hope that none of you are holding your breath or you will end up going blue.

I enjoyed my time in Scotland and have many happy memories. I genuinely wish you all well. But I despair when I read the articles on here about what your politicians are up to and the feeble rebuttles from your oppostion parties and the lack of action from the people.

People in the west tend to look down on the style of government we have in South East Asia. Apparently,your democratic governments are much better for the people. But you know, there really is not that much impact on our lives from government decisions here. You have much more interference in your lives and your civil liberties than we do.

Perhaps this translation of the Thai national anthem will inspire some of you to act against those in government who pollute your lives.....

****************************
Thailand embraces in its bosom all people o

Once upon a time an arrested British citizen was innocent until proved guilty. Now, even when you are proved innocent, the police hold onto your DNA indefinitely in case you may one day offend. In other words, there is always a presumption of guilt.
Now we have an alternative BNP: Blair's New Police State.

I thought the parliament was there for Scottish solutions to Scottish problems..not to slavishly follow Westminster..

Good, it should be taken at birth

And it should be cross referenced with our compulsory ID Cards !!

The Parliament comprehensively dismissed this proposal earlier this year. All the other parties oppose it. Labour will not hold an overall majority after May (if it is in power) -> it's a gimmick to raise votes as it won't get through.

Labour will either misuse DNA testing or completely screw it up.

Trust and Labour is something that does not look right in a sentence.

The whole of Britain will go towards becoming a police state if everyone keeps Labour in power! They have no right having that amount power over us, they have no right treating us like terrorists, and they have noright training our children to live in a police state enviourment! WHY DO YOU ALL CONTINUE TO VOTE FOR LABOUR!?!?!?!

Why not DNA and microchip us all at birth?

Welcome to the Peoples Republic of Blair.Totalitarian control freak .I wonder how long it will be before we must carry a membership of "The Party" (there will only be one and guess who the Chairman will be)
Please withdraw this before May because it might be an offence to think after that.;et alone engage in subserviance like speaking or passing opinion etc.

#13 is correct, "Wee Cathy" knows this will never see the light of day in Scotland, look out for more tough talk in the run-up to May. And watch out for more full page ads on ASB in the press, part of the Labour election campaign paid for by the Scottish people.

A valid reason not to vote for the Liberals.
They have enough trouble with fingerprint ID, let alone the possibility of DNA transfer. As the technology improves, smaller and smaller quantities can be detected. If I shake hands with you then take a knife and stab someone, both of our DNA will be on the handle. Now it comes down to who has the best alibi. Dangerous to rely too heavily on the experts. After all X in algebra was always the unknown and a spurt is a drip under pressure. Enough said.

"England has not become a police state because of the retention of DNA samples" says Mr Martin. Just one step towards it. The logical outcome is DNA and microchipping at birth for all. Welcome to a brave new Labour world. Identity cards will be a licence you will require to leave your home.
More Police? Where? Not on the streets. In office jobs. In squads. Chasing targets.Everywhere but on the beat.

I hope #8 has touched a nerve. We are rubbish at standing up for ourselves we let our politicians and local councils get away with the most monumental deceipts. The fact that we are placid just encourages them as they know we will just eat another poo sandwich if we are told to.

Why?

As far as this DNA is concerned - brilliant! It will cost tens of millions of pounds and when they finally catch a real criminal (rather than a motorist) they will put them in to air conditioned jails to watch sky TV with the occasional dip in the pool for half of the pathetic sentence they have been allocated. That is if there is space in the prison system for them ... I suppose Eurpoean law states that each prisoner must have a 50 acre field and have a view of rare carp in a pond from their balcony.

Tough on crime .... everyone with a true criminal tendencty knows that crims pays now ... there are no consequences DNA or no DNA ....

As a Scot I am sure I am not alone in sensing that Britain, Scotland and labour are just an international laughing stock. Our politicians can't even build a simple building to house their ego's on time or on budget. They can do nothing else other than 'ban' things and interefere with the daily lives of simple law abiding folk.

MSP dwarves are ruling a land of giants ... it is time for a change ...

#19 Not living up to your name. I surprised no one else has brought up how it easy it will be plant other people's DNA.

I've spent 40 years trying to come up with a foolproof way to stitch up an old primary school teacher. And here's the government throwing a solution in my lap. Those taxes haven't gone to waste after all. Brilliant!

Since we can expect future developments to make it easier to identify DNA at a crime scene with relatives of the culprit we are, in parctice, close to having a DNA bank that can identify anybody.

"all crime suspects" is also a dangerously wide definition which gives carte blanche to police to suspect anybody of anything. I think simplyfing court procedure & actually putting offenders in jail would do much more to cut crime.

So, more regulation of 'innocent Scots' is how the Labour Party intend to crack down on 'dangerous criminals! Funny, it hasn't worked so far and never will. The law abiding are the only ones who obey the law, the rest just carry on committing crime regardless.

The only thing IMHO the criminal respects are consequences and the prospect of punishment, and not even that at times. Prisons may not be good at rehabilitating offenders but they do keep them secure and away from the rest of us. Lets try something radical, like 3 strikes and you go away for LIFE... I would vote for that!

No one can be left in any doubt now that we are living in a police state under NuLabour, ASBO's in the womb, DNA databases, Hitler would have been proud of these lot in their quest for body/mind purity. Wake up and fight for freedom

http://www.freedom2choose.co.uk/

This is exactly what george Orwell warned of ,the total control of the population by the state .
The new ID system has already been sold off to private companies without our consent .
But think of what an insurance company will do with your DNA if you don`t stop it being hived off now .

Talk to your MP on this liink to put over your views.

http://www.writetothem.com/

"a spurt is a drip under pressure" wrote #19. You weren't refering to Cathy Jamieson, were you?

Let me see now, a database full of DNA profiles means that everytime someone wants to check the DNA at a crime scene they interrogate the database. Ergo everybody on the database is a suspect for every crime for the rest of the time that their profile remains on record.

DNA profiles, biometric ID cards, CCTV, Mobile phone records, Email records etc. = more laws, rising crime levels, overcrowded prisons, more police, more special constables, more traffic wardens. At this rate if we're not making it illegal, or in prison then we'll all be watching each other.

The one thing that is obvious is that the politicians are clueless and their answer to everything is 'Control'. Come May when they ask you to trust them with your vote return the favour and ask them, Why do they trust you at election time but not at any other time? The answer should be interesting.

Forensic evidence is a useful adjunct to the usual development of the evidence in a criminal case which follows motive , opportunity and evidence that the accused actually committed the offence. There is a real risk that evidence based on DNA analysis will be given an absolute value which transcends all other evidence. In truth there are technical pitfalls to DNA analysis which make evidence based upon it less than absolute. Also, and this is worrying, juries are frequently influenced by forensic evidence and "expert" evidence which they tend to see as immutable.Anyone who has read the cases in which the late Sir Bernard Spilsbury gave evidence can see that effect. Juries tended to believe eveything he said regardless of legitimate alternative views.

Additionally, the existance of a comprehensive DNA data base alters the focus of the law by making everyone a potential suspect for every crime.Since I trust absolutely neither the police nor the courts I am reluctant to place this weapon in their hands.

I'm sorry to have to tell you that this law will eventually be introduced as it is an EU directive that should have been implemented in 2005. However resistance from the Public and the Law societies has prevented full integration so the EU have allowed a delay but this law must be fully implemented by 2012. Blair signed up for it in the Treaty of Nice in 2000. Obviously they are trying to implement this by stealth through the back door so to speak. If you wish to know more read my articles 'Corpus Juries' and 'Brathair Mor an Eorpa' (Eurpoean Big Brother)on the Clannasaor website. http://www.clannasaor.com/index3.htm

Click on Articles (Top right corner) Navigate down to the foot to find the two articles. Read on and I hope you will then discover how successive governments have begun the process of turning Scotland into part of a totalitarian Police EU Superstate. Clue Double Jeopardy - Rings any bells?

'S mise
Niall

Ever wondered how your name got on that mailing list? DNA database? Be afraid!

One look at Shirley McKie's fingerprint case should prove that even the OLD technology isn't working never mind the new DNA testing.

The rise of the NEW WORLD ORDER on the ORDERS of Blair and his SHADOW government

Another good reason to vote SNP

This is a proposal we should reject as forcefully as possible NOW.

Normal law abiding peoples data will end up on the database and undesireables such as 'travelling folk' will be excluded.

Its so obvious where this isgoing. Once you DNA is on file, adavnces in technology will predict your life expectancy etc and your life insurance and NI contributions will be loaded towards the likelihood of your demise.

Ultimately we'll all be chipped and tracked and the chip will link to your ipod or something to make your life as easy as possible.

Its all a tiny move towrds ultimate control of society for the elite one or two. BEWARE !!

george orwell was right he just got the date wrong

Dick (1),

Trust and the Labour Party is an oxymoron.

They say that if you go far enough to any extreme in politics, you go full circle.

The labour party is becoming more and more like Hitler's Nazi Party every day. We need to get rid of them NOW!

Adding up all the Pros & Cons, I am in favour of the DNA Database - mainly because it works both ways - and particularly because it will eliminate the innocent from the "crime scene".

I have serious concerns about the storage of what you call "dna." I have already written to this paper saying that it can be reprogrammed. You have paid no attention. I have warned that it can be used on other footstools. You have ignored that. A small siesmic disturbance in Dumfries could signal that a Boat of Millons of Years has just put is magnetic anchor at this footstool with a view to removing what it calls ANKH material ,and you disrespectfully call "dna". It can rebuit from ANKH material. Can you rebuild from "dna" ? It apears you cannot!

Very clearly society is being divided into government and non government workers and very clearly the fascist tactics of this government and the next, will if left unchallenged, eradicate our sense of being, reason and destroy humanity.

I.D. cards have nothing to do with catching criminals, in much the same way increasing police numbers, has little to do with catching more criminals or a reduction in crime.

This is purely about control and common sense dictates that the more uniforms and paid workers in the governments pocket the more it can rely on fear, misplaced loyalty and strength in numbers to destroy our freedoms and institute fascist control.

I'm sure when IBM agreed a commission to design I.D. cards to aid the annihilation of the Jewish people and barring the boys at the top; most IBM employees would have been completely unaware of the Nazi agenda.

Sixty years on we cannot pretend the outcome of the same dangerously complicit gesture to reintroduce I.D. cards will be any different. I.D cards are unequivocally another step toward controlled segregation and divisive holocaust, which we the public should not pretend to have any illusions about.

As for all criminals (including the warmongers) they should be electronically chipped, perhaps another wee job for IBM in their spare time!

If we take it to the next step. The recent sikh episode in Edinburgh had I believe according to press reports 180 interviewed. What if DNA had been taken from those people and held in a database when the sikh in question made the whole thing up?

It beggars belief.

That is a very good point Micjonger 38. I would put up with a few guilty people going free if that is the price of a slightly less overbearing state but that may just be my prejudice. Even I balk at innocents being convicted. It appears that the prosecuter in a nedia friendly alleged interracial gang rape case in the US deliberately concealed from the defence DNA evidence proving the defendents innocent. Whether this proves that a DNA base is useful or that government cannot be trusted with it, or both, is open to question.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/24/us/24duke.html?pagewant...

This goes to the heart of our liberties and freedom ... so much for the much vaunted freedoms received with the wee pretendie parliament ... time to remove the scottish executive and save the taxpayers the millions it currently wastes - that goes for the welsh assembly too ...

SCOTLAND 1984

"People simply disappeared, always during the night. Your name was removed from the registers, every record of everything you had ever done was wiped out, your one-time existence was denied and then forgotten. You were abolished, annhilated: vaporized was the usual word."

Brave New Labour World....

Heredity, date of fertilization, membership of Bokanovsky Group–details were transferred from test-tube to bottle. No longer anonymous, but named, identified, the procession marched slowly on; on through an opening in the wall, slowly on into the Social Predestination Room.

"Eighty-eight cubic metres of card-index," said Ms. Jamieson with relish, as they entered.

"Containing all the relevant information," added the First Minister.

etc.....

#34
"As a SNP supporter and a potential rapist I think this is terrible." As a potential rapist I am sure you do! O and by the way, SNP supporters and members do not use the term "Brothers" I am sure you got confused with that well known Tenants Association called Solidarity.

I'm sure New Labour will not misuse the proposed DNA bank,they will only sell it,excluding their own details of course.

#9 No you have it all wrong in Scotland today you are preumed guilty until they can make the evidence fit you holding DNA will just assist in that process

Good to know Heinrich Himmler is alive and well and working for New Labour, New Fascist.

They finally moved beyond socialism and straight into communism.

Labour out,out,out.

Yup Hugh, you've guessed it ... The labour party imported alot of these sorts in the late 40's after they managed to overthrow that rotten old Churchill fellow. They have been waiting for the dust to settle a bit after wwII before they start their work again ...

The Police can't catch real criminals anymore - spending all that time on violent crime, burglary, and the old chestnut of murder isn't too productive for the stats you see. They prefer to do motorists now because that looks really good on the job sheets and they don't usually put up much of a struggle - because they are usually decent law abiding sorts in every other respect apart from driving at 25mph past a school at 3am in the morning .... (sober!) or turning left into George Street.

They will spend a fortune in aquiring and managing this DNA bank and the real crims will just figure a way around it. Case closed.

My answer must be NO!

I do not contribute to the view of retaining an innocent person's DNA. The examples above of children should be enough to convince anyone of the error of such a suggestion.

If one is innocent of any crime there is simply no justification of retaining their DNA on police records.

What next? Dental records?

'1984' coming a little late perhaps.

As a hard working law abiding citizen. I have absolutely no problem with DNA samples being taken at birth and used to put criminals where they belong.

I do however have a problem with the ridiculously short sentences handed out by the courts and the cushy life offenders seem to enjoy inside.

If the Government had ever sorted ID cards out DNA could have been put on those after all like CCTv cameras the only people who would object is those who commited crime.
We need more preventative measures and surely blood groups and DNA would be the best.

Veritas #54:
The Government wants our medical records transferred onto a national database. So much for GP/patient confidentiality.
To opt out, see www.TheBigOptOut.org

Renew your passport now. If you wait until 2009, you will have to buy an ID card with the passport and the authorities will want lots of personal data for this ID card. See www.NO2ID.net

And just think: as part of the EU, our government will share this data with other member states and possibly with the USA as well.

Freedom is slavery!

#56: you are a little sanguine.
Imagine you are mugged and lose your mobile. The mugger goes on and viciously attacks his or her next victim. At the scene of the crime, either by accident or design, he drops or leaves your mobile with your DNA on it. The police finds this DNA and, thanks to its vast database, asks you to help them with their inquiries.

I got misdirected to SOS and read the article about the former DDR being taught of the actions of the Stasi.

Will the Freedom of Information Act allow us access to the 0800 lines set up by Blair & Broon to spy on and shop us to the government?

I came back from Amsterdam yesterday with 20 cartons of cigarettes and my DNA will be on the lot. But if you want mine you'll have to kiss my ass and swab your own mouth.

Every time something like this comes up in the U.S. - and that's just about every day, now - the people on the left keep trying to remind the rest of the country:

"Those who would sacrifice a little freedom for a lttle security deserve neither freedom nor security."
- Benjamin Franklin

Many of the Grey Brigade will remember the ID Cards that were issued to all British residents in 1939.Aside from a personal ID number the only information that those cards provided was Name and Address. Ernest Bevan, the War Cabinet Minister of Labour and the person responsible for the design and distribution, resisted the pressure from Mr Churchill to have the card include a bearers photograph and fingerprints."The young men that we are sending to war are fighting to protect and preserve individual rights to privacy and dignity", declared Bevan and when he was reminded that photographs already appeared on military documents and on passports he replied "A decision and an act of your peers before my time sir, my principles will not be aborted". The Wartime ID contained no more than a name and address!

Jock Tamson #59
Scotsman readers should read Murdo MacLeod's article on the Stasi. Alleged criminals, i.e. often those who protested, were executed, cremated and their remains flushed down the drain. They became non-persons with no record left.
Just as Open #45 writes about.

Post # 8
Mr. Thai Land.
Your wonderful government clamped down on any money being invested in your country last week causing the Asian Stock Markets to collapse. It imposed a mandatory 1 year control of any money invested or a 30% penalty for early withdrawal. So this is the country you brag about?

There appears to be a case for Civil Disobedience here. It worked in India.
If Labour and the others put us all in jail for refusing to take part in their info gathering exercise and we do not register for, or carry, the compulsory ID card then we can demand our rights while we are in jail and totally screw up the system.
Why should we have to? For the same reason that our fathers and grandfathers went to war in 1914 and 1939.
Anyone not willling to go to this extreme can simply question, at every stage, any and all demands for our compliance with anything the 'authorities' (who are supposed to be working for us remember) ask us to do, compying only when their reaction reaches intolerable levels. If enough of us do this it will take up their time. The whole system will grind to a halt.

#40 Guardian,
I completely concur.

Too Big Brother. The ends have never and never will, justify the means. Things are moving that way here in the States also. It is just simply wrong. Full stop, as you say.

Cathy Jamieson, the justice minister, said that if Labour wins another term in office next year, it will bring Scotland into line with the rest of Britain by allowing police to retain the DNA of all crime suspects, regardless of whether they are eventually convicted. Well you stupid woman,Toe the party line jamieson, do as london tells you and jackass to do.
Does this mean every time an msp makes a mistake to the benefit of his ,hers, it,s bank account whilst claiming expences, would you and them have dna taken .

#38... Please! The innocent can be eliminated from the crime scene (if they are ever charged) by submitting DNA AFTER the fact. Then, once they are eliminated from suspicion, any record of that DNA should be destroyed!

EWB/UK, #63. I am sure that Murdo MacLeod had no idea that the Stasi was short for the State's secret police. Staats Sicherheit Polizei. Gestapo has the same origin - Geheim Staats Polizei.

Be afraid, or vote the votzen out.

"You do not examine legislation in light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered." ~ Lyndon B. Johnson

It is time for a written Bill of Rights for Scotland.

#64 Sambo (is that a racist name?)

You are right that our central bank made a complete hash of things last week - but they did not trigger any "collapse" in the stock market. The Thai baht is still riding high on the currency markets. But thanks for bringing the point up though as it represents a perfect example of the PEOPLE standing up for themselves.

Our Finance Minister - your equivalent is Gordon Brown - had to go on TV within 24 hours and face public humiliation by admitting that he was inept and had allowed something very stupid to be done. His forced apology was broadcast across Thailand and in other parts of the region. It was quite humiliating for him but he got what he deserved because PEOPLE were shocked at the results of his departments actions. Our Prime Minister also took part in the Press Conference, sharing some of the humiliation. And do not forget that we are living under a military coup and that these people are appointed by the military leaders, not the people. People power is such here that even in those conditions they are forced to eat "humble pie".

My understanding of your country is that Gordon Brown and Tony Blair would go on for years without being forced to openly admit any wrong doing and that it takes some BBC nostalgia programme to be made years later before someone actually points the finger at them and says "idiots"!

And, for the record, my point was not that Thailand is a perfect country. There are many things that could be better here such as the removal of the unelected government. But there are regular demonstrations on the streets of Bangkok asking for the removal of the military.

The article was about Scottish government and I was offering an opinion on the story, based on my observations of Scotland when I was there. The fact that your response to my observation was nothing more than an attack on Thailand speaks volumes about the accuracy of my obser

#11 and #16 Bill.. Right on.
What ARE the NEGATIVES in doing this?
Other than the vague statement "information can be abused". of which, no one has given a satifactory explaination.

#73 Here are some negatives:

- People should be allowed to go about your lives without the need to get involved with the state. This is not just about building up a database but is as much to do with extending the states right to intrude upon peoples lives.

- Where is the EVIDENCE that this will reduce crime? It does not exist because it does not reduce crime in any meaningful way.

- databases are expensive. Whether business or government, you should only spend substantial amounts of money in things like this if there is a real benefit to the organisation. There isn't and therefore it is a waste of Scottish peoples taxes.

- I do not live in Scotland but have followed the case of that McKie woman who was clearly a victim of people abusing her personal data. Why else would the government give her $1.5m? There are also lots of cases in the UK of people being convicted due to dodgy evidence and law officers lying or at best misleading the courts. So people in authority do abuse data and will continue to do so.

As a general principle, it is not up to the people to explain why they do not want something. The authorities who want to raise taxation to pay for the project are the ones who have to JUSTIFY the proposal. I will leave you to review Cathy Jamieson's statement to find one concrete fact that shows that there is concrete evidence that this type of database will make a positive impact upon peoples lives. I do not expect to hear from you soon because there is no proof of that.

People all around the world should fight to protect their liberties, not surrender them just because a government Ministers misinformation suggests that it would be a good thing.

It makes solving crime an awful lot easier. Is that not in every innocent persons interest?

#75: I can't remember who said it, but I agree wholeheartedly:

"Those who would happily give up a little freedom for a little security will soon have none of either".

Oops, see #61 for the correct quote and source!

OK, found the actual quote:

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both. "

Mr. Thai Land (74), you claim that Shirley McKie was a victim of abuse of her personal data, could you expand upon this please as I fail to understand how you have came to such a conclusion.

For the record at the time that the SCRO were attempting to eliminate police prints from the murder scene they were delayed in dealing with Ms. McKies case because her elimination form wasn't available and a new one had to be made.

It seems the form hadn't been returned after a prior investigation into her conduct.

After McKies second defence advisor had photographed the crime scene mark damage was clearly visible, so it would be correct to say there appears to be an abuse of evidence.

As this discussion is about DNA it is worth pointing out that new DNA identification technology could clear McKie by taking a sample from the disputed crime scene mark, Y7.

Of course, if it were a match it would not be so good for her.

I wonder if she would take the opportunity to clear her name once and for all?

In the McKie case there was also a bloodied watch belonging to the man convicted of the murder, the blood type matched that of the victim, but technology at the time of the conviction could not be more definitive.

Shortly after Lord Advocate was challenged to produce the watch for detailed DNA examination he resigned.

A lot of people including the Mckies questioned the timing of his resignation, expecting to at least see the Justice One inquiry report its conclusions, how ironic that now the McKies have also abandoned their campaign without waiting to hear what Justice One has to say.

The Scottish Executive paid out on the basis of a fingerprint practitioner by the name of John Macleod, Macleod made susbsequent high profile claims against the SCRO which were torn apart by Scotland Yard showing Macleod up as a charlatan in the process.

Obviously when rogue practitoners like MacLeod are taken seriously enough to warrant £750'000 settlements there are grave questions about the integrity and ability of the state to deliver justice.

The problem is not the technology or the science, the problem is cowboys such as Macleod who represent themselves as experts, and despite being humiliatingly exposed as incompetent are not challenged by people like Cathy Jamieson or Jack McConnell.

#75 It makes solving crime an awful lot easier. Is that not in every innocent persons interest?.......

In theory, but that would assume you trust the government to protect the data and not misuse it. I would not trust this lot to go for a Pan loaf!

#9 EWB A slight but important correction to your post. The word "presumed" should be inserted before "innocent". A Common mistake.

#15 I too fear Britain & Scotland becoming a police state. The Scottish people need to remember that power lies in their hands. Please don't assume that your vote won't count in May because it will.

#38 says Adding up all the Pros & Cons, I am in favour of the DNA Database - mainly because it works both ways - and particularly because it will eliminate the innocent from the "crime scene".

Well, that's true except for the innocent who were at the crime scene.....

#73 The most important negative is that it will eventuually (sooner rather than later) become compulsory to carry the ID Card and to most people and such an infringement of civil liberties is unacceptable.

Ever since DNA collection became a reality, I've maintained that the keeping of live samples is tantamount to having evidence before the fact of a crime.

To wit: If the government has a live copy of your DNA, and you happen to become a pain to some bureaucrat or other official, all they need do is replicate that DNA, and plant it at the scene of a crime, and have a willing witness to attest to the fact that it was you who did the deed.

Good practice forensics, does not in any way rely upon priorly collected 'evidence.'
The scene of a crime will almost always provides the necessary clues, and good, honest police work, should always be the way a criminal is found out.

And besides, there =are= people with identical DNA. So, what if one of those people was responsible for a crime, and not the person whose sample is already on file?

What then?

If everyone south of the border were jumping off bridges, would Ms. Jamieson suggest that all Scots copy that too?

What will she suggest next, chipping everyone?

AT LAST You lot wi8ll be able to find out who you'r fathers really are !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why bother tracking Scots by DNA? That's what the breathaliser is for.