Some very good people but quite a small circle. Couldn't the meetings be televised to add transparency?

What a team and oh what disappointment for bleak midwinter who cant qualify for this A team because he aint bright enough.

the members, who will not be paid

BUT this w**fter SAID

Professor Arthur Midwinter, a public spending expert, said: "This is a waste of public money.
"The announcement is symptomatic of the SNP having greater concern for the trappings of office than problems of governing.
"Hopefully, Mr Salmond will soon stop the gesture politics and make a statement on matters for which he has responsibility," Prof Midwinter said.

Don't go to his uni

#5 Navvy

"the members, who will not be paid

BUT this w**fter SAID

Professor Arthur Midwinter, a public spending expert, said: "This is a waste of public money"

Maybe this explains the approach of the like of Midwinter and the GERS report, to arbitrarily add a cost tothings that have no cost.

However, I think the rest of Midwinter's statement os more revealing;

""The announcement is symptomatic of the SNP having greater concern for the trappings of office than problems of governing.

"Hopefully, Mr Salmond will soon stop the gesture politics and make a statement on matters for which he has responsibility," Prof Midwinter said."

This is a guy who has been employed on numerous times to advise on publice matters; political and economic. If there were any doubts about his impartiality then there should be none now.

His disgraceful remarks should ensure that he is never emplyed again by the Scottish Exectutive. Then again, maybe he knew that.

The committee is there to improve Scotland's performance. MidWinter does not have that culture. Hence he is not on the committee. Sounds quite logical so why is he complaining?

Perhaps he meant that no money was still to much money,in other words a total waste of time.

Now this really does sound like hardcore economics.

Perhaps we will see Scotland emerge from the bleak "midwinter" of stagnation to embark on the first promising shoots of an economic spring.

I'm still baffled as to why the britman mentioned that two of the 11-strong team were known SNP supporters. Does that mean we are to deduce from this information that, the other 9 are not SNP supporters.

Which means what exactly?

Our Prime Minister is being over zealous in his desire to show a non-partisan approach?
Our Prime Minister is attempting to engage all side of the political spectrum?
Our Prime Minister is eager to enlist the very best advisers available in order to ensure the WHOLE of Scotland has the best chance to be invigorated.

Jings by this one simple action it makes me feel that up until now we have been running our fiscal affairs as something akin to the school tuckshop.

Bloody well done Alex!! Much respect!!!

To even think of such a great idea, let alone convince all 11 to come on board is simply breath taking.

AND ALL FOR FREE!!!!!!

Alex Slamond and his party have really scored a huge one here.

Given the support the SNP has now - it would have been very difficult to get a forum without some SNP supporters in it. This looks a knowledgeable team of advisors.

Pric_winter has his nose out of joint because the country did not back his horse a lesson that many editors etc need to learn. Why are we hearing so much utterances of losers. Time you hacks got a new set of contacts!!

comment 1 who would watch such rubbsh

[11] Clearly not you. But you appear to have made your mind up already.

There are some who do not feel the need to immerse themselves in so-called reality tv and would welcome the ability to watch a discussion session of such talented and gifted individuals.

I would have thought it pretty much guaranteed that it would be more interesting than the televised Westminster stuff.

Midwinter?? Could that be the "M" in AM2???

#9
Our Prime Minister is being over zealous in his desire to show a non-partisan approach?
Our Prime Minister is attempting to engage all side of the political spectrum?
Our Prime Minister is eager to enlist the very best advisers available in order to ensure the WHOLE of Scotland has the best chance to be invigorated.

I would not go that far but Brown has only been prime minister for a couple of days so we will see.
I have seen Britman mentioned on the comments of articles in the Scotsman many times but I cannot find that newspaper anywhere can you give a link, I have asked others who have mentioned it but no one has ever given a link.

"Wendy Alexander, a Labour MSP, called for minutes of the meetings and attendance records to be published."

What is she looking for a free training course on how government action 'should' be done?

In any case this is a great initiative and shows what can be done within the union but on our own initiative. 'Initiative' Something the Labour leadership (followship) in Scotland should take note. Outside health and education , it is obviously an alien concept for them to take a lead and make decisions on their own without Westminster telling them what to do.

On the other side we have a group of well rspected experts in their field in a close working relationship with the SNP. They are certainly not a bunch of YES men dancing to any SNP tune, another alien concept to Labour.

The question is whether or not the SNP will heed their 'advice', hence the preference to publicised minutes. However I cant see the executive going against their own appointed team of experts.

SNP performance to date -
-------------------------

Ordering a financial review of a tram scheme no-one wants that even in consultation phase has cost £100m, then making sure that if there are cost over-runs, the folks who want it (i.e. City of Edinburgh Labour Councillors) will pay for it.

Removing tolls from the Forth and Tay bridges (passed by vote May 2007)

Releasing suppressed Labour executive reports that identify a potential of £1bn savings

Proposing upgrading the A9 to dual carriageway along its length

Refusing permission for new nuclear power stations to be built in Scotland

Opposing the introduction of blanket stop and question powers for the police in Scotland

Requesting Scotland represent its own (and the UK's as a whole) fishing interests in Europe

Plans to nationalise Scotland's only private jail

Putting forward plans to Prevent ship-to-ship transfers in the Forth estuary - this plan came to fruition on 28th June 2007 when powers to veto such transfers were passed.

Highlighting the Blair administration's contempt for the scottish judicial system and devolved government

Scrapping the £2,000 graduate tax (succesful 13th June 2007)

Saving accident and emergency care based on patient need.

THOUSANDS of chronically-ill patients are to have their prescription charges scrapped

Refuse to enter discussions on the burial of nuclear waste in Scotland.

Appoint a team of 11 of the finest economic minds in the country (including 2 Nobel laureates in economics) to

advise on economic matters. This received cross party support.

Labour performance to date -
----------------------------

Agreeing with SNP policy

Infighting

Name Calling

Riding roughshod over the scottish judicial system and devolved government by making more 'oil deals' overseas.

New report (FSB) shows that Scotland is the worst performing small country in wester

phew -

I'm having to cut out stuff from my list to fit the posting restrictions - the SNP are doing so many great things in such a short space of time!!

I think I will split it into 2 lists.

I find it breathtaking as well as refreshing that at last we have a Scottish Government thats going to deal with the economics of the country.
It was amusing to watch the likes of Jack McConnell having nothing constructive to say and even tried to justify what he did when he and his party were in power.
Labour cannot say anything against this as it follows on in a way to Gordon Browns ethos of government of 'all the talents'
What was also funy was that Labour couldnt quite get a grip of what it was about, stating that the Scottish Government already had advisers with the Scottish Enterprise board, ignoring the fact that the Scottish Enterprise is for encouraging and setting up business in Scotland, which lately has failed on and is costing Scotland millions, but that about says it all about Labour!
Well done Alex Salmond and the SNP Government

"Professor Arthur Midwinter, a public spending expert"

another oxymoron, right up there with "tony bliar, peace envoy"

AM2/Pete Macmahon has obviously been gnashing teeth all night to try and put a negative spin on this one - looks like they succeeded, but only to show just how low in 'journalism' he is willing to scrape.

Mr Macmahon/AM2, should really consider leaving mainstream journalism - as far as I see it he can only be damaging the publication he writes for.

#7 williamx

You are dead right. Midwinter looks for flaws in everything and everyone and is wholly negative in outlook. A positive attitude is a pre-requisite in being successfull and it is this that will change the face of Scotland over the next 4 years.

#9 Anna

I think it says a lot for Alex Salmond and Scotland that these high calibre individuals are keen to become members of this committee.

Liked your "school tuckshop" analogy which is bang on!

Sounds like an excellent bargain to me.
Who is the moaning Midwinter??And why is he moaning??
And why are you giving him coverage??

#16 GM

Please take this bit of advice in the way it is meant.

I think your list of SNP achievements is a great idea and I applaud you for keeping these in the spotlight. I enjoy reading the frowing list.

In the interests of being positive and looking forward please drop the second list (Labour performance to date) as it is of no relevance now and we are surely confident enough now to promote only the positives!

#24 growing not frowing, sorry

In the bleak Midwinter...stormy seas may roll..

His academic neutral shirt tail is hanging out..he was so influential in the election campaign...how much public money has he been given in the last ten years.....NOW THAT WOULD BE TRANSPARENCY! HE DID NOT DO IT FOR FREE. WE WILL BELIEVE HIS NEXT OUTBURST IF WE KNOW THE TRUTH. How much money from our taxes have you received,Midwinter?

'Last night Labour pointed out that at least two members of the council supported the SNP at the last election'
Thats rich, from the party that gave us cash for peerages and put there own placements in various postions accross Scotland (Perhaps Labour would like to talk about Dundee University!)

Loved Alex Salmonds put down yesterday on George Foulkes, who tried to make something and failed, only to be reminded that on certain days he wasnt in Edinburgh, but in the House of Lords

Good idea and seems like a decent line up. Also good to see atlast a goverment in scotland that will put economic growth at the forefront of its policies after being ignored by westmister (under thatcher and not really dealt with by brown), and also mcconnells exec.

The only problem i forsee is the lack of powers in the scottish parliament to address these major problems/issues. Fiscal autonomy is probably the most important. But there are also other powers such as competition that would also be helpful.

One of the reasons the scotsman is being negative about it is the fact that if this team were to recommend more powers for the sp to address certain issues it would difficult to resist if u care about economic performance and not just political objectives. Therefore the scotsman is trying to discredit this team before it has even started.

#24 Connaughtboy.

I agree entirely.

But, I think, that the most important aspect of this is that, in taking on this challenge, this group is showing an enormous amount of faith in Scotland and its people. This is not for commission.
I would also hazard that it shows the standing in which Alex Salmond is held.
To other posters, there is no need for minutes as, if AS treated it as nothing other than a talking shop then the group will just disintegrate.

AM2's spin on this should be priceless given his previous defence of the probity and intellectual ability of A. Midwinter.
Unfortunately, if he deigns to comment, he will be in his appeasement mode. You know what I mean!!!

a bunch of yes men, cronies and tories. Check out some of their published papers and comments. Slash business taxation, slash public sector workers, slash public sector spending. The tory/snp alliance continues!!!

@24 all suggestions gratefully received...

@31, perhaps you should place yourself in the government somewhere - after all the proposal did receive cross party support so it does seem odd that you alone have information that would discredit the new council of economic advisors.

I think their credentials speak for themselves... after all - could you answer me one question please - what is your view of Prof Arthur Midwinter as an economic advisor?

#31 jd1
Spoken like a truely blinkered Labour yes man
You should get out more, smell the coffee!
At least the SNP government is doing something constructive about the economy, where as Labour and there Libdem chums drove it into the ground!!

#31 "a bunch of yes men"
which ones fall into this category. If u make a accusation of this sort i would like some evidence. It hardly seems like a group of yes men reading the list (like them or not).

"cronies" again which ones and what reasons do u give. They all seem to come from different and successful backgrounds.

"tories" - bit of a scraping the barrell type comment. If tories are ultra unionists 2 of the panel are snp supports hardly makes it a torie panel, unless u want to define anyone interest in business success a torie.

"Slash business taxation, slash public sector workers, slash public sector spending." We will have to see what they advise. Question though given scotlands high tax and spend policies have not exactly brough economic success to the country what would u advise to change scotland cronic underperformance.

"tory/snp alliance continues" what alliance is that. The snp by trying to maximising support for independence is a broad church of right left opinion (probably more leftish because of the scottish political ecquilibrium) seeing itself as a centre left party.

A high powered group. I am pleasantly surprised at the width of its expertise. Highly unlikely to be a 'yes group' for the SNP. Good days ahead for Scotland?

#24 - You said it well.

#9 Sorry Walter when I say "Prime" minister I refer to the Scottish prime minister. It's a case of symantics thought up by the festerminster spin doctors.
First or prime it means the same to me.

Whatever you call him, he's doing a frikkin great job so far.

Imagine, for a moment, if you will, if we had independence and the whole of our wealth to invest in our great country.

Scotland is on the up! I predict that we also will steal a draw with the French in France, just cos we feel BOLSHY!

#31 JD1, "a bunch of yes men" LOL

What did the last administration do for Scotland in 8 their years?
I take it you would rather the self proclaimed so called expert in public spending, prof midwinter, was the our firtst ministers one and only economic advisor eh? just like he was with wee joke. Strange how the last administratiopn failed to spend Scotland's allocation... they had no idea what to do with the budget. Ayea, midwinter's an expert righ tenough (my erse!).
I thinkit is fair to assume that this self proclaimed expert knew about the east lothian scandal too? What did he do about that? According to his silence, he must think the theft of public money is perfectly acceptable... "a bunch of yes men"... FFS! have you any idea how pathetic your statement is?

Well done the SNP and an extremely credible list of advisors who will "advise" the SNP government on the vital issue of economic growth.

The SNP have given us a great start to government and are now building the bricks to make sure that progress continues.

It is a refreshing change to the negativity and uselessness of the last LAB/LIB Executive and long may it continue.

Scotland has suddenly become can do rather than can't do and it is certainly the right path to Independence..people suddenly are realising what they have been missing......a Government on Scotland's side!

#36
Actually your right about the Firts Minister / Prime Minister thing
On 'la continante' First Minister translates to Premier Ministre (in French) which wen translated back again gives you Prime Minister (Primo Ministro - Italian / Primeiro Ministro - Portuguese)
The fact was that the Labour establishment did not want to have a Prime Minister for Scotland as that would insinuate someone who was equal to the Prime Minister of the whole UK, so it fell to some symantics, quite pathetic really. There is no reason why we just cant call ALL the First Ministers for Wales, Scotland and N Ireland Prime Minister of...

This group look diverse and experienced.Quite frankly I could not care what their political cviews are,just that they can help the Scottish economy to grow. Their politics are of no more interest than their religion.I suspect that their political views are diverse in any case.Very sensible move by the SNP government.We should expect any administration,irrespective of politics to have done the same.
Dr Bill Reynolds

#34

You can be a supporter of the snp but be a tory. Just look at fergus ewing and jim mather. If it were not for the independance cause then they would be in the tory party. Just how else can neo-con fergus ewing sit comfortably in the same party as a man like alex neil, who has policies (centre left) much more in keeping with my own but also with scotland.

regarding scotland's poor economic performance, if you strip out the south east of england (which includes London) then scotland growth rate is at least comparable and in many cases well above that of the other regions (geographically, so everybody calm down) of the UK.

It is simply wrong not to take this into account. Just as the central belt's economic growth is more than say, the highlands and edinburgh's growth will be more than, say, midlothian, it is always going to be the case that some areas are going to have higher or lower rates than other areas.

The panel are yes people. Does anybody really believe that if they say the snp govt have got it all wrong that they will last 2 minutes on the panel. grow up and get real. salmond wants people who will agree with him (with an ego the size of a house) . Hence no midwinter.Whilst not everybody will agree with everything he says, he does at times make good points. Surely its impoirtant to have alternative views on the panel.

#38 I'm with you on that .

My God, I feel like donning my old mans sash and dancing. (joke)

Forget the old bigotory, forget the old divide.

At last Scotland is being looked after.

Bring on the referendum!

I must confess I'm on my third Royal Lochnagar.

Heady days indeed.

Every day now, and in every way I am more and more proud to be a Scot. The next four years will either make or break us, I know which way I'm betting. The weekly humiliation of wee Joke at First Ministers' questions is my TV highlight, will he never quit? Where labour have clung (desperately) to power, as in Dundee, it seems they have failed entirely to learn the lessons of their defeat as they continue to trample democracy into the dirt. I think there is far worse to come for labour in Scotland, maybe then they will get the message. Its an amazing contrast to see a government doing its job in the interests of the country it serves, as opposed to its members interests, and not just at a Scottish level either, UK plc needs to get its priorities straight if its going to survive this benign revolution.

#41 When you talk of "Views" re;midwinter. It's not so much views that we are interested in more so SUBSTANCE. What will ease the problem, what will solve the issue, how best to tackle the problem, what is the best way forward, is this going to benifit the country.

I don't wish to heat his 4 letter words.

Like - can't don't won't and stop.

On paper, an impressive bunch. Mind you on paper so were the Smith Group but no sure exactly what they ended up achieving. It does however make SNP look like a heavyweight political pary who are looking for real and meaningful solutions. Labours reply was simply bewildering, only 2 who support SNP, meaning the majority dont and erm your point is caller? The way Labour are performing just now (including the previously impressive Wendy) is so poor i am beggining to wonder if there is a secret New Labour/Old Tory plan to encourage Scots to go for indepdendence. Can't believe i am saying this but so far there have only been 3 impressive parties in the Parly, and one is the Tories, how on earth did that happen!

Why was a group such as this not assembled before? That may have taken too much brains for McConell and co.

#41, jd1

I suspect that your analysis of the situation is a tad subjective but, heh, ho, never mind.

However your assessment of A. Midwinter really does leave a lot to be desired. Ref. the Payment/non-payment issue: rather a glaring error from a REKNOWNED ECONOMIST.

Have to laugh at Arthur Midwinter saying that this is a waste of public money when they are unpaid. Or does he want to know how many cups of coffee are consumed? Exactly how many doughnuts did George Mathewson work his way through chairing the meetings and who ate all the strawberry tarts?

41 JD1

People who support independence do not believe that Scotland should settle for being a region of the UK. We would like to see Scotland having the same economic powers as Ireland, Finland, Norway, Iceland, Denmark or Sweden. With the same powers, we believe that Scotland could have the same success. Of course there will be a debate about how those powers should be used but we need to have them if we are to improve our economic performance.

"ALEX Salmond yesterday appointed a high-powered group of academics and business people to sit on his newly created Council of Economic Advisers."

on loan from Disney enterprises

Grumpy,
Sleepy,
Sneezy,
Bashful,
Dopey,
Doc,

the three stooges masters of economic mirth
Happy.
Moe,
curly

SIR GEORGE MATHEWSON the alter ego of

<<<<<<<<ARTHUR MIDWINTER!>>>>>>>>

"the First Minister said the group would meet four times a year and advise him directly on ways of having the best pancake fight and to show the first minster how to survive his many and increasing pratfalls"

#30frank mcbride,
"this group is showing an enormous amount of faith"

yes faith lots of it because that all Scotland will be living on that and soggy porridge yuk! if the SNP are allowed a free rein.

but as the recent kerfuffle with the Edinburgh trams fiasco has revealed when the time comes a leash can put firmly round there necks and used to bring them to heel

"DOWN BOY DOWN SIT" now roll over and beg

NO! not of that Englishman for gawds sake!

i believe the editor of the Scotsman only throws in

<<<<<<<<ARTHUR MIDWINTERS>>>>>>>>

name to roil you lot up and it works every time

#48 It has been an impressive start, long may it continue. Do think if the Libs dont watch out and stop being as petulant as Labour they are really going to pay for it at the next election as a lot of their voters will defect to the Tories. Normally i would find this terrifying, but if they are the only other party who are willing to enage sensibly with the SNP then good on em. Think i need to lie down now....

Good move Alex, frankly I wouldn't trust John Swinney and Salmond with economic decisions as they do not have the ability.

Very intelligent move that seems to have the interests of Scotland at the heart of it rather than blustering over somthing trivial to create a divide between Scotland and rest of UK.

Howdaydoday.

Faith is obviously something you have a lot of otherwise, you would not have the beliefs you have.

Anyway it'll be our porridge and, if the try to steal it from the pup again they might get the hand bitten.

#41

I am talking about Scotland economic performance being poor. The idea that places in england also have substandard economic performance is hardly an argument for saying that poor economic performance is actually ok.

1) Over the last 30yrs scottish growth has averaged less than 2%. That is poor.
2)Scotland has performed worse than many small north european countries, who are some of the richest in the world.

It is completely insolar to just compare scotland to england but not to our other european neighbours. the fact is that scotland has performed poorly both absolutely and relatively. The small countries have also performed better than their larger neighbours.

I also asked u for some evidence of them being yes men. You have been unable to give any reason what so ever. Repeating that u believe the point does not suggest it is correct. a yes man is far as i am concerened is someone who agrees with their boss just to advance their careers against there better judgement. I cannot see any evidence of this at all.

"Does anybody really believe that if they say the snp govt have got it all wrong that they will last 2 minutes on the panel. " It simply will not work like that. It has similar traits to the independence of the bank of england by brown (an excellent move). They do not follow browns lead, agree or disagree with brown but just do the job they are put there for - vote on monetary policy.

As such this panel will be there to suggest economic policies for the scotland. The snp can then accept or reject this advice. with a variety of people it may accept some and reject other, particularly where this advice might be contradictory.

"grow up" i think u really need to look at what this panel is actually about and not ur own political prejuduice. Outwidth tax what do u really think the type of advice they will offer will be. And why do think that it will be so controversal that they

#54

A bit backhanded, but a compliment nevertheless.

I'm sure the Government will appreciate your approval.

#58 Sorry mistake.

That could read Tories, or at a laugh corries.

#58 And don't forget Mcletch, always thought he was one of the most impressive of the MSPs and from what i have seen in this session he still is. It is very sensible tactics from the Tories, and does show up the Libs and Labs for what they have been for 8 years now. Mr Tavish "The Shetlands are Scotland" Scott, get a grip on yourself laddie, you are coming across as complete buffoon!

Where's AM2 when you need him? His fellow apologists are struggling this morning.

#1 Royster 'Some very good people but quite a small circle'. - Strewth, surely 11 economic advisers is enough for anyone.

'Wendy Alexander, a Labour MSP, called for minutes of the meetings and attendance records to be published.' - You certainly need some help Wendy in getting your economic facts right.

'Professor Arthur Midwinter, a public spending expert, said: "This is a waste of public money.

"The announcement is symptomatic of the SNP having greater concern for the trappings of office than problems of governing.

"Hopefully, Mr Salmond will soon stop the gesture politics and make a statement on matters for which he has responsibility," Prof Midwinter said. '

Well if anyone had any doubts about his politics they don't now. This guy is a joke. Free services is now 'a waste of public money'. Not too sharp for an economist is he.

'Last night Labour pointed out that at least two members of the council supported the SNP at the last election. ' - If that is the best the Labour party and The Scotsman can do they're in trouble. So that leaves 9 who didn't support the SNP. I'll be suprised if all these guys turn out to be closet Nats.

Just emphasises how well Eck has done getting this group together and that there are people out there prepared to help their country for the general good. Very positive.

#61Ken Mac,

perhaps that's because everybody's so underwhelmed with another stunt from wee eck it does get a bit repetitive and boring.

just leave it to the SNP faithful to leap up an down proclaiming how wonderful the SNP are for everything they do

as i say monotonous yawn stretch yawn time for a different approach from the first minister this one is running out of steam poop! poop!

61 Ken Mac

Why do you describe it people as "his fellow apologists are struggling this morning"?

Perhaps it is a case that this is a good policy to which people are in agreement on and not the usual blustering over silly insignificant matters that are trying to be devisive?

#64 AM2, Good afternoon to you lad, re the 5 you name, is that a bad thing? are they not allowed to be sympathtic to a party, any party? I reckon you will agree that their ability is far more important than their sympathies. As you say, let's wait and see. And yes, minutes absolutely should be published and given what has been relased under this lot they probably will be. Mind you, minutes reflect what was written, not what was said....

#67 AM2, suspicious is good, all of us should be suspicious every day of those who have such an impact on our lives. We should however not let that cloud our thinking. No matter what theaaprty, you can ussualy find policies they are promoting that make, at elast, partial sense. I have detested the tories my entire political life due to what happened in the 80's to those i know. However, i am putting that increasingly to the side given what i have seen in Parliament recently. I will still never vote for them, but they areebegining to get my respect. You are a clearly a clever lad, but i do think you let your anti-SNP sentiments get in the way of sensible analysis.

Its Friday and we all need a laugh - thanks SNP.

My advice is we should all be better off.

If economic advisors made an economy wealthly the Russians would be selling cars to Japan by now.

Crawford Beveridge already has a proven record of failure after his dismal management of Scottish Enterprise. I hope the others have more to offer,

#69 My sentiments exactly.

I served 12 years in HM forces.

However, I was always aware of my well being.

Never put blind faith in any of your leaders- it could lead to your death.

Unfortunately some of my brothers have had to learn this first hand.

For those who have fought for it ..... Life has a flavour .................. the sheltered will never know.

Give us our freedom...we demand a referendum.
Scotland does not wish to send her sons and daughters to an early grave.

It's quite ironic that Labour are so anxious at the fact that they can identify that 2 out of a group of 11, are supporters of the SNP.

Are they trying to suggest that this group will compromise their international reputations by not dealing with these matters professionally?

There's an interesting article that exposes some of what has gone on in recent years between Labour, Lib Dems and Arthur Midwinter.

Just google "squeezeandcurse".

AM2 Apart from the usual suspicions, reasonable comment so far today.

#63 Tax haven. Because you are struggling to find something telling to say. If you simply want to acknowledge a good idea why not just say so rather than prefacing your remarks with
'frankly I wouldn't trust John Swinney and Salmond with economic decisions as they do not have the ability'.

62. howyoudoingboy. As I was saying to Tax haven above you are struggling to put a bad spin on this. It isn't a stunt, it is a very astute move and good for the country as your chums acknowledge.

#71. AM2, Glasgow

'Your insults are water off the proverbial duck's back. The SNP activists here have before called me a plant, troll, trash, disgrace, pathetic, phoney, sleekit, liar, stupid, idiot, to**er, wa**er, t*t, prat, knucklehead, buffoon, numpty, pain-in-the-a**, a**e, fool, deadbeat, thick, worm, tw**, f****r, vegetable, drone, hypocrite, apparatchik, non-entity, crackpot, irrational, bizarre, thuggish, hateful, bigoted, anti-Scottish, enemy of Scotland, enemy of democracy, fascist, Britfascist, traitor, insane, total waste of carbon – and no doubt others I missed. If it was going to have any effect whatsoever, it would have happened a long time ago. Sorry to disappoint.'

Christ that's scary. You actually keep a record of all the insults you get. Wont be a man to hold a grudge then?

#43 shireman

I too love the weekly humiliation of wee Joke. I can't decide whether it's due to Salmond's razor wit or wee Joke's tendancy to walk into self-made traps.

Have you noticed his reaction when he does get slapped down by Salmond, he just shakes his head, blushes and puts on that manic smile.

I am so entertained by it all that I have watched all of Salmond's FMQs at least twice (three times so far for yesterday's) As for the "dead parrot" attempt at humour, what was wee Joke thinking?!?!

The trauma of losing on 3rd May has clearly pushed wee Joke and Wendy "Hungry Caterpillar" Alexander over the edge!

#46 gregor

Most of that group would not be seen dead in McConnell's company!

#64 Even if your assumptions are correct 5 out of 11 isn't bad. Just wondering how many the Labour party would have had supporting them....auch stupid thought! They never even managed to have the idea! As for minutes I have to agree with a post earlier that there's nae way oor Wendy's getting a free training course in economics. She should go tae night classes like her electorate.

#64 AM2

I think you meant to say "the proof of the pudding is in the eating" rather than your less accurate version. Could you not find a suitable cut and paste source for it?

77 Ken Mac

Why not preface it with comments such as that as I really do not want to be associated with the SNP chorus who would agree with AS if he proclaimed the world was in fact flat.

#75 Tried to read "squeezeand curse" but found it too intimidating. Is there anyone out there who can decipher this important piece for the simple people of Scotland?

#82
Respect!

It is fair to say that it doesn't matter who they are but what advice they give - and if recent policies from the snp/tory alliance group are anything to go by they will be ever so slightly to the right of thatcher.

No govt that contains fergus ewing will ever accept putting up taxes on the business community.

Why does salmond nead 11 people who will tell him what he wants to hear to come to any decisions. Does he not know what needs done. As a said earlier, his ego will not allow the group to give honest and unbiased advice.

As well as the minutes, we should also have full access to what advice they gave, whether it was rejected and why. Only then will we see whether they are salmonds poodles. Only time will tell.

PS - it will still mean right wing nonsense from the snp/tory alliance - anybody care to challenge that? (in a friendly sort of way)

#82 GM

I agree. Also, notice how AM2 is happy to give us his "suspicions" on which members of the Group are pro SNP, but for some reason has no interest in telling us what political leanings the others have. This cannot be because he doesn't know their political views because to believe that we would also have to believe that AM2, by sheer coincidence, only knows the politics of the pro SNP members of the group and nothing about the others.

Pull the other one AM2, you are just being contrary for the sake of it!

Hey GM,

Please continue your list to rub what is a long long long list of accomplishments by Big Alex and the SNP. Lets not forget what Wee Jokee listed as his finest hour, he banned smoking yet he didnt have the nerve to tackle Alcohol abuse. One of the great killers of Scottish People. But now I am wondering if that one act of pride was worth a seat in the House of Lords they will have to make Big Alex either King of Scotland since right now he is the Lord Protector of Scotlands People against these LibDem/New Labour barbarians.

Seriously now Big Alex must surely be respected as one of the good things that has happened to this Nation for god knows how long. This is a man that is dedicated to pulling Scotland out of the cycle of an economy built around Government Spending. This is the man that wants Scotland to go out into the world and say we can be good for you, and you can be good for us, WELCOME.

We all as believers in self determination can have low times when we wonder who could take us out of the wilderness. I genuinely believe that the actions of our first true Scottish Government for three hundred years are going to lead us to a new day of a country who can hold its head up high and proudly declare. We are from Scotland one of the most successful independant countries on earth.

#85 Tax Heaven

As you appear to be as much use as a mermaid in a chorus line, I'm not surprised at the terminology you use. Utter twaddle, I support the SNP and AS so far. If AS claimed the world was flat, he'd be party leader for about two seconds and you know it!

#86 Anna Matronic, it basically says that there has been a collusion of interests, Midwinter amongst them, who have been preventing a serious debate on Scotland's funding, and present and future economic performance, by a campaign of misinformation regarding the Barnett Formula in particular. Which suggests we should take what certain folks say on this with a pinch of salt. i reckon we should take everything everyone says with a pinch of salt, but i'm weird that way!

I'm reasonably pleased with this. A problem I have with politicians, especially career politicians, is they have no idea what life is like for real people, especially in the private sector.

If this group can deliver honest, impartial advice, and they are truely expert, then I'm all for it.

#88 jd1
You really are an idiot!
Why do you have this thing about SNP being allied to the Tories? Is your Labour beliefs, blinding you to complete ignorance?
Ive heard tories say the same thing, that SNP are closet socialists!. It doesnt matter which of those parties you support, you will always find fault and blame.
As a dyed in the Wool Labour supporter, can you explain away why Gordon Brown can call in non Labour people to help him and set up government with all the talents. Yet when Alex Salmond calls upon 11 experts in there field, without being paid, people like you find fault?
Ive been a lifelong Labour supporter, but Im not blinded by party dogma! I believe in Scotland and I believe in Scotland being governed responsably, which is something thats been missing for the last EIGHT years. The current Scottish Government are spot on in calling on those 11 economics experts to advise what can be done. Pity that Jack McConnell didnt do it before, but then again he is a puppet of Westminster and Jack will do what Jack is told to do

#91 Munchies If AS proclaimed the world was flat i would be chuffed as i have always hoped that i actually lived on the Discworld and this place was just a bad dream......or at least it has been for the last 8 years.....

#92 Thanks.
I appreciate your deciphering of this piece. Though I must admit it was not wholly explanatory.

However, your pich of salt is noted. :-)

#86 Anna

I'm no economist, so I can only try to make sense of it. Then again, Anthur Midwinter is no economist either and he was appointed by the Labour and Lib Dems as the advisor to the Finance committe.

The "Barnett Squeeze" seems to be a phenomenon that relates to the increases in budget for the Scottish budget. The Barnett formula identified a certain percentage than should go to Scotland from the UK budget. This was proportionally higher than a per head calculation because of specific social, geographical and economic factors.

However, the annual increases in the budget for Scotland do not increase in line with these percentage calculations, but by the same amounts per head across the UK. So the benefits produced by the Barnett Formula, for legitimate reasons, are gradually decreasing. So, Scotland's bufdget is gradually decreasing in real terms.

The "Resource Curse" is an apparent paradox, identified in various parts of the world, where countries (or regions) blessed with a "windfall" of natural resources seem to grow more slowly than countries (or regions) without these resources. Scotland seems to suffer from this resource curse, while at the same time, due to Westminster's control, failing to benefit from the actual resources.

The author believes that these are two factors that need to be understood if there is to be any control over the Scottish economy. However, this previous Scottish Executive had shown no interest in researching them at all.

More worryingly, it seems that alomst every economist in Scotland agreed with the author, but Arthur Midwinter (who is not an economist) did not, claiming that it was merely theoretical.

Bizarrely, Mr Midwinter was appointed to be the advisor the the Parliament's Finance Committee, where he was not shy to voice his opinions, in agreement with the then Scottish Executive but in convergence with most economists.

More worryingly, d

Now that I have stopped laughing - I have to agree that indeed this is a bunch of Tories for the Tartan Tories. These champions of capital will ensure that they and their shareholders get what they want from the SNP and will be keeping the SNP leadership in check in case they get any "leftie" ideas about sharing the wealth with the workers who earn it for them. Its all going to plan for the bosses party.

#94 Edward, edward, edward.

The evidence of the Tory/SNP alliance is there for all to see. SNP following Conservative policies (cutting business tax and making workers pay more of a share, promoting road use over public transport, supporting charitable status of private schools, favouring rural scotland over urban scotland).

I am sure the list will grow and grow.

sorry sedov, never read your post until now. You are sport on!!!!!

#85. Tax haven

Well I was going to reply but Münchenburger beat me to it. You've got to admit ' as much use as a mermaid in a chorus line' is pretty good.

#99 So it was a formulae thought up by the Labour crew to placate the Scottish.

Once it was accepted in Scotland,it was left stagnant, whilst the rest of the UK was afforded increases to void the whole raison d etre.

95 Münchenburger (Baron Von),

SNP supporters amaze me. Critisise their policies and they are savagely up in arms. State that you disagree with their overall agenda but they have effected a very intelligent policy and they're up in arms? What will make you guys happy is there no room for moderation or do you Nats sieze everything to say that things are only black or white and there is no room for anything in between?

Read the SNP website in regard to economic policy about interest rates, currency and inflation and it is as shallow as a pygmy's paddling pool. So I am very glad that AS has implemented this policy.

Ken Mac 105 see 107

Its Strange that the three Countries who through Westminster have been remodelled over many years to having an economy that is in many ways become dependant on Government Spending.At least two but probably three want corporate tax reductions to put them in line with Eire. Their justification is simple, they are desperate for more business to locate to their countries to provide wealth through providing modern technologies.

I dont doubt that Margaret the bitch raised it to new levels when she closed or gave away a very profitable Ravenscraig Steel Mills, very profitable Underground Coal Mining, the Shipyards which had full order books(hence the work in) and Scottish fishing grounds which generated huge amounts of wealth for this country.

Having seen how Brown has got our richest people paying practically zero tax, we now believe we need that edge to take the Celtic countries to their deserved position as a successful free market economy.

Stick with it AM2. When they have to resort to personal insults and namecalling, you know you've got them beat.

#112

"When they have to resort to personal insults and namecalling, you know you've got them beat."

Who is "they"?

Sounds like Jack, Wendy and the rest of Scottish New Labour.

#106 Anna

That seems to encapsulate it pretty well. Although, I think it was set up under the Tories. But Labour seem to have been happy to do nothing to alter it, but at the same time do nothing to counter the criticisms that it is unfair.

#107 TH

I was criticising your jibe about SNP supporters and not your view on the policy. Thought that should have been clear enough.

But I'll let you off as I liked the paddling pool bit.

W U Merchant

Tom Farmer is probably one of this countries best and smartest examples of a great Scottish businessman. He worked very hard to get what he has but still finds the inclinations to put back into the community through charitable donations, Tax and employment to many Scots.

The Soutars also grasped an opportunity that could have been available to anyone who had the get up and go to grab the opportunities. They didnt just walk in and have it handed to them. They worked very hard to achieve what they have. They are also not to arrogant that they would forget their roots. They both donate large amounts of their own money back into worthwhile areas of need. I think the last donation was to provide help to our hardworking Nurses.

Now you may be sitting there a bitter wee man wanting to dump your bitterness and failure onto people who dont have the luxury of making public statements. But a couple of thousand more of these type of Scots who are entrepeneurs and generate Jobs and money to the economy, and we wouldnt call the queen our auntie.

Anyways................ A stroke of genius today by the SNP.

Wait till that sinks into the Scottish psyche.

The days gone by..............all part of growing up and being SCOTTISH.

I'm off out. Have a great weekend all.

115

Come on Zoom, cheer up - it's Friday.

I thank you sincerely for giving me the time of day in replying to my post.

94. Indeed, JD1 really needs a reality check, plus now I realise why education was a focus of labour policy recently as their core supportes are really lacking. Also, I guess its just a bit hard to pigeon hole those damned nats.

They have better social policy than Labour and the centre which the right and Nu Labour call left wing socailism.
They have sound financial and economic policy that the left wing castigate as Tartan tories. The centre dont say much and when they do its just "forget it".

JD1. "As well as the minutes, we should also have full access to what advice they gave, whether it was rejected and why" Thats what the rest of us call the minutes!

JD1 #41 "if you strip out the south east of england (which includes London) then scotland growth rate is at least comparable and in many cases well above that of the other regions (geographically, so everybody calm down) of the UK."

What an uninformed statement devoid of any understanding of how the UK actially is setup. London is the UK economy, and geared to the south east at the expense of the other areas - not my words. The model actually works quite well if you want to run Scotland as a region to support London. However if you want Scotland to grow on its own it just cannot be done on an economic model geared to the south east.

Not only that but it is typical Labour medocrity. The rest of the UK besided London have also done crap so thats all we should expect. One word: Pathetic.

When the SNP say Scotland is the only country to have found oil and got relatively poorer its not just rhetoric. The billions of revenue that bailed out the UK in the 70s and early 80s was totally to Scotlands disdvantage. How you see this depends on your viewpoint. If you are a unionists, then its all to the common UK good. If you are a nationalist then its basically theft. Somewhere in the middle I would at least say that Scotland has no way g

Hey Tax Haven,

I think that your comments were very fair. I am not here to attack anyone who express's a sound arguement for their entitled opinion. What I do hope is that the same people who come on here as mouthpieces who express the party line and make broad statements that they got out of a lucky bag without having the gumption to try debate by giving reasons for their position/stance.

103. jd1 "I am sure the list will grow and grow."

I assume you are referring to the list by 16. GM on SNPs achievements to date, so for once I can agree ;)

107 Tax Haven

Your comments don't actually make sense.

This Council is not going to be advising on interest rates, currency and inflation as these are controlled by Westminster. It will be advising on what the devolved government can do to boost economic growth.

I also don't understand why you think the SNP website should be full of policy on interest rates, currency and inflation. These are poliicies that will be decided after independence not before. The SNP is about getting Scotland to independence, not speculating what monetary policies might be implemented after it.

W U Merchant

I apologise to you unreservedly mate. I have been on these forums for months and I must admit the attacks these people have had to suffer purely because they have donated to the SNP election costs is very iratating to say the least. I dont know these people but I can sympathsise with their frustration.
I assumed something there and I was very wrong.

W U Merchant is a huge ginormous man, so I've been told by a few women round Aberdeen.

Is that better.

126

Brisbane Scot, you shouldn't apologise to WUM. You were correct - he was at the wind up (W U Merchant?).

125. Miss H. In addition, the executive are of course preparing a detailed document on independence (which I am sure will include fiscal elements) to be delivered in the next three months.

Hey Man that knows,

Did you notice how quick AM2 came and went on this forum. Wasnt to much he could say or paste.

Do you reckon he will be back in a different guise.

Miss H 125

DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW IMPORTANT INTEREST RATES ARE?!?!?!?!

It affects every aspect of life as you know it from high street prices, mortgages to the business community. If it involves money interest rates matter.

Interest rates and currency is what drives an economy so if Scotland was to be independent it needs some very clear and concise policies on such.

AS should put up front and centre "in an independent Scotland interest rates and economic policy are as follows" then put clear arguments as to why this choice of policy would not have any negative impact on the Scottish economy and would in fact boost it.

I honestly hope that you have no influence within the party and no one listens to you if you actually think that such an important issue should be decided after indepenence and not spelled out in black and white for every person to see before any vote on independence is taken you are very mistaken.

131

Brisbane, given the very painful personal criticism of me by that bully Zoom (see post 115), I am most reluctant to offer any further comment in relation to AM2.

#103 JD1
I think your getting confused between New Labour and the Tories, theres not much to tell them apart
Lets see, it was Labour that continued the Tory policies of Public Private initiative. It was the last Labour executive that wanted to close A&E's in Scotland, yet SNP saved the A&E's. It was Labour that forgot to actually give the Nurses there pay rise, yet it was SNP that didnt hesitate to give the Nurses the full pay rise immediatley!
Its the SNP that wants to reduce corporation tax in order to encourage inward investment, labour didnt see a point in reducing any taxes, which is why inward investment didnt really happen.
The SNP believe in Scottish potential, Labour simply dont! The SNP want to scrap the unfair council rates and replace with a tax thats fair to all, expecially the pensioner, whereas Labour want to keep the idiotic council rates, that most pensioners and the low paid cannot afford, that in my book, makes the SNP more socialy aware and more socilaist than Labour. SNP are against Trident, Labour and the Tories are for Trident
Why dont you waken up from your Labour dogma and start getting the fresh air of what is really going on

Hey David Macvicar,

I cant see them putting anything in the White Paper about fiscals except some generalizations on methodology.
Lets not forget when all the Parties vote for it on its first reading then Browns signing it the next day. Then the SNP has to disband to allow free elections not run by Alexander. Simple really

134

Edward, a wee correction, if I may. The previous Scottish Executive made it quite clear that Scottish nurses were to receive the full wage award.

David Macvicar 129

I look forward to reading it

Man that Knows,

Well all I can say it was an absolutly Shocking attack on one of the most generous people on this site.

I sort of got the impression that he did not like you.

Well that one less Chrissy Card that has to be sent out this year. Your mantlepiece will be empty this year mate. Did you get one from AM2 last year, I didnt there must have been a postie strike.

135. Brisbane Scot. Thats not what I meant, I mean there is no way they can go into exact detail but they can explain the approach and framework, its all we should expect and I think Tax haven is fishing along similar lines for interest rates.

Who sets them - A central bank or Government?
If a central bank then who, Bank of England, European bank or a central Scottish Bank?

Initially it would be the same as those set by the bank of England for Sure...unionists will say "you cant base Scottish rates set by a foreign state not geared to our economy". my response agreed, but hey, thats what we have now!! ;)

All - Och why cant we just lurve one another man, the Romans did.

138

Brisbane, the thing is that, until today, I had never heard of Zoom. He must have been hiding in the shadows waiting to pounce. Very clever.

Hey Man who knows/Edward,

Wasnt the rest of the UK pissed about the Scottish Nurses getting their rise ahead of everyone else. Wee Jokeee was assumed to be the winner because how could Labour LOOSE after 50 years. He was meant to wait until he received ORDERS from his bosses in Westminster but he LOST.

Tax Haven,

I think they have already said that they plan to peg their interest rates and currency to the Bank of England until it was felt to be the appropriate time for a complete change to a Scottish Bank.

Alex also quoted that Australia and New Zealand did that until the late fifties. It worked quite well.

I deal with several large Chinese Manufacturers who are now demanding LC's in Euros rather than American Dollars. It may be that Scotland will go to the EURO as well but I hope not.

David MacVicar 139

I've said it before but if independence is to happen then the most viable way that I can see it happening without creating any form of currency and exchange rate disparity with England (who would, as most agree, remain Scotland's biggest trading partner) would be if (and I hope when) the UK joins the Euro at which point I would view independence as very favourable. Until then I'm sad to say I cannot see how it would be viable but I hope that the report you mention in 129 can alay some concerns.

#136 The Man Who Knows
Appreciate that , however
previous Scottish Executive did make it clear that Scottish nurses were to receive the full wage award on April 1st but Andy Kerr appeared to forget to actually do it for by end of April, the Nurses found that they hadnt received the pay rise, which is why it was implemented by the new Scottish Government, having to have it back dated to April 1st as agreed by Andy Kerr

A good start, but other than Frances Cairncross (and her only partially), there is no serious representation of any expertise in the 'sustainable' part of Swinney's "sustainable growth" portfolio. It's also a bit grizzled-old-industrial-male. Hazel Henderson or Hunter Lovins would solve the gender and the sustainable question in one stroke. William McDonough is doing extraordinary work in big-picture sustainable planning. And with that surname, could we make an ancestral appeal to him? A final caveat: Micheal Keating's social-democratic voice on Scottish independence deserves to be in the discussion too.

More on this at http://www.scottishfutures.net

142 Brisbane Scot

I have read the party line on interest rates within an independant Scotland and just cannot see how it is viable.

As David Macivar said in post 139 keeping the pound and the B of E interest rates would be having your economy dictated by another country who would have even less concern for the Scottish economy than they do already?

I cannot see how a Scottish Central Bank would work in effect creating an independant Scottish currency that I fear (and please do not interpret this as a too wee, too poor, too stupid argument) would add a degree of uncertainty over exchange rates and I think would have a negative impact on foreign trade.

I disagree with your point about the Euro as I personally believe the sooner the UK and Scotland are part of the Euro the better.

144

Edward, OK.

Hey David,

The problem with the Euro is that it is tied to a central system which does not truly reflect the true state of the individual countries performance. It is a very superficial system. If you look at Irelands economy, while all these experts are coming from all over the world to find out their secret, Ireland should be pulling its heads in because of their economy has a good chance of catching fire mainly because of a very buoyant housing building market and not so much on good fundamental growth. Scotlands problem is not as bad as Ireland because they were coming from a lot further back. Irelands got a fairly heftie debt burden because the economy has been out performing their ability to fund the growth. If they slow things slightly it will correct itself and give them the chance to balance things out.

I see my post 82 was moderated -

I cant remember it containing swearing, offensiveness, or any comment that broke the law.

I can only assume AM2(pete macmahon) self-moderated it as it was just too close to the truth.

148 Brisbane Scot

I think that Ireland's problem has not been caused by the Euro however I see that having control over its own interest rates would be a solution to stop the economy over heating which I believe it is at risk of doing currently.

Anyway gotta go got big corporate event this evening all paid for by the "man" Gotta love big business (sorry Sedov!)

Dont you agree that which ever way they go they are always going to have no control over PRESSURES from the world and will have to cope with it. Its just the EU is trying to dictate a slowdown in Ireland not a massive one just a bit more caution. Its a bit like the Asian collapse too much growth leads to too much debt, thats a fact. Its better to manage the debt rather than ignore it like Asia.
Look at the end of the day with the right attitude and good infrastructure Scotland will find itself in a great position because lets not forget that overseas companies are looking to reduce costs and transporting finished goods is a very expensive exercise with duties etc. Local assembly manufacture of a sort can sometimes work out cheaper than the costs I have mentioned. Investment banking will be keen to look for opportunities and where better than Scotland. They will see us as a country & government they can do business with.

Brisbane Scot 154

Please correct me if I'm wrong as I have not studied this in depth but from what I can tell Ireland's problem has been caused by cutting taxes too rapidly and not taking careful gradual and incremental tax cuts that lead to sustainable economic growth. Rapid tax cuts lead to inflationary growth and not real economic growth.

I worry greatly when I see SNP supporters using Ireland as a model as Ireland can be used as a model economy but Scotland must learn from their mistakes.

As you say they have no control over pressure from the world and therefore must adapt to the world economy accordingly. So when setting its spending and taxation policies they must set in line with the European Central Bank's policy on interest rates.

AM2., #####From yesterday#####
‘Where on earth do you get this stuff? Do inane conspiracy theories just jump out of your cereal bowl each morning?
Was it not you who thought the John McBeth/FIFA corruption row had been engineered by your "unionist overlords" (or somesuch nonsense) in order to discredit Scotland?
Get some perspective! World events don't revolve around Scotland.’
I fail, and I am sure most people do, to catch your drift as to why John McBeth’s behaviour could not have been an attempt to lose Scotland influence within FIFA. On top of this, he is pushed just before there could be a hearing, and then ends up with an honorary position within the Scottish FA, to a confirmed hardline unionist as he, there is no great loss. The loss is only with Scotland.

‘Now, to this issue. You're showing no ability to distinguish between the best course of action for Scotland and the best course of action for the SNP's future electoral prospects. You appear to be so unable to separate those two entirely different things that you consider them to be one and the same. I'll grant you: it may not be morally reprehensible. There might be no moral dimension at all. You might simply be delusional.
Delusional AM2, pray tell how do you come to this diagosis? Personally I put my family first, then comes my country, and then and only then do I look at the party I will follow, does that sound like delusional?

INTER-nationalist., ##### From the other day#####
‘…. Andrew Allan "This wouldn’t have anything to do with all those flashes of union flags I keep seeing all over our TV screens since the Scottish elections would it? Plus all of those programmes like ‘How we built Britain’, ‘The Great British Village Show’, and ‘Britain has talent’. You don’t think for one minute that nasty unionist establishment have been trying to brainwash us scrounging ungrateful lazy Scots into turning away from our nationalist ways do you."
Yes, I do believe you are right. All those programmes have been commissioned, scripted, filmed and aired in the past seven weeks. Damn. if only they broadcasting authorities had thought of this in April then that overwhelming SNP vote of one in six of the adult population would have been destroyed.
You are one serious nutter. You will feel right at home with the other SNP folk on here.’
INTER-nationalist, have you not considered that it might be you that is the ‘nutter’ and not I, personally I take it into consideration on a rolling basis, as it is said, only those who don’t consider the possibility of insanity within themselves, are the very ones who are likely to be inflicted with the condition.
As for your assessment on what I said about the possibility of brainwashing, you made a fundamental error, your timing. It was already thought to be a vote loser before the election, to emphasize British over Scottish, as when it was tried the polls showed a larger lead to the SNP, remember, there weren’t any national celebrations for the 300th anniversary of the act of union, and hardly a thing on the TV either. The outcome of the election, though important, wasn’t the main prize, it was the possible outcome of an independence referendum. These events on our TV sets were planned well before the Scottish elections. Take the David Dimbleby programme for instance, ‘How we built Britain’, when the Scottish edition was shown, it h

Robert Smith needs to be axed NOW. Anyone with a "link" to Standard Life / Aegon and the "organised crime / money laundering" that has occurred in relation to endowment policyholders savings / investments retracts from the credibility of this group.

The role of Frances Ruane needs to be reviewed. It is the "Celtic tiger" in the form of Comissioner McCreevy / Internal Markets at the Eu Commission that has f-cked our unique Scottish finance sector by removing all of our globally competitive mutual societies and yet Irish Life canoodled our mutual fund managers lock stock and barrel to Dublin in the 80s to attract the exiled Irish and their money back to Ireland. (He is also closing our Post Offices.) The Irish, based on their actions, are "not to be trusted".

wendy A, has turned over a new leaf, she must be after wee jokes job, as she herself knows perfectly well that even at local government levels N/L dont take minutes at most of there on meeting,s unless she is suggesting she doesnt know anything about the internal working,s within looney lanarkshire labour or glasgow city council, no minutes agreements can be denied, next liar stand up.

Tax Haven

You need to bear in mind that the SN{ may not be the government in an independent Scotland. The party cannot commit future governments to any particular course of action.

SNP policy is to join the euro but there would have to be a referendum on that and I don't see that happening immediately after independence. There will have to be a transition phase when we keep the link with sterling.

#153 Magic hoops ( or is it mushrooms) Pay attention and read 100.

#162 Sedov.

As long as you are prepared to accept the status quo, be my guest but please, don't mump about it.

Accept that there has been some move away from corporatism and, given the political will, which requires support this will continue.

"67. AM2, Glasgow / 12:41pm 29 Jun 2007 #65 Help Ma Boab

In terms of the stated purpose of the group, it shouldn't matter greatly. But the gradualist machinations of this executive are becoming clearer to me by the day, and I am deeply suspicious of the communiqué notion."

Note, Comical Ali is "deeply suspicious," he don't know to much about nothing, but he supects a lot.

Keep it coming Ali, you are the only reason I read this forum, you are priceless.

It is sad that this is the only life you have, but it is pure entertainment.

Miss H 161

You are either stupid or insane either way you spout the party line without really thinking about it.

Do you have the capablity for abstract thought or do you simply just say whatever someone else tells you to say?