Okay who hacked the hootsman. Own up. Its either that or AM2 got his post and his column mixed up

the scotsman is changing for the better dinnae scare them do not reply to am2

Several blogs are having a laugh at The Scotsman advert for a Political Editor as the adverts suggests may require travel to Scotland!

Here is the link:

http://www.allmediascotland.com/jobs/256/14092007/politic...

Cathy Jamieson, said ."It's now clear that the SNP has no intention of actually delivering on some of its manifesto promises,"
She really is thick as two short planks, or did she not realise the SNP government are a minority Government, that the media and press love to remind us all. As such the SNP, like any minority government have to take the path of consensus politics in order for the parliament to function. If it had stuck to ALL of its manifesto, no doubt the opposition parties would not have accepted them and so would have wasted time
So Cathy, suggest you get back to the deli counter at Tesco's, for as an MSP your just plain useless

Of course, the Opposition parties just want the SNP's major pledges up now, so they can all join in and jump up and down on them, to vent their fury that the SNP has actually formed an administration.

In due course, people, in due course ... and I think Alex will be more than ready for you at that time!

I preferred the comedy sketch by Mr McNeil ... and it was surprisingly even-handed. I loved his description of Bendy-Wendy as a hysterical munchkin!! :)

What a gal. "Why the silence on dentistry?" she asked, as tumbleweed crossed the floor and a distant dog howled.

"Presiding orifice," concluded Annabel, "this programme is not so much the sleek racehorse of Scottish government but more a three-legged nag with a limp." Which equine drollery she followed with a declaration that, for Eck, the honeymoon was over. Now, Annabel, dear, what would you know about honeymoons?

The voice of a hysterical munchkin reminded us Wendy Alexander was present. The thinking man's Jimmy Krankie asked a short, dull question then sat down. And that was it from the new Labour leader. The rest of the time she just sat looking petulant.

Funnily enough, the day's best speeches all came from other burdz. Nicola Sturgeon (SNP) effectively ridiculed Labour's overall performance with faint praise. Annabel was brilliant. Cathy seemed much improved.

With gals like these, Holyrood might come to be admired - given time.

Related topic

1. louise2, inverclyde
Naw, now that the new Government is in position, it is also in position to allocate a couple of £millions on public notices to the popular media.

Quite a handy wee revenue stream, particularly when circulation is becoming forever more restricted to the Morningside and Barnton Blue Rinse Brigades.

Perhaps some political editors will be having full and frank exchanges of views with circulation and advertising department heads?

hilarious who ever wrote that give him the job so so funnny.

Perhaps the SNP will be in a better position to deliver on their promises when independence has been achieved. Only independence from Westminster will remedy the current woes in Scotland.

The SNP have the integrity and strength to represent the economic, political, legal and social issues of the Scottish people. Hopefully there will be greater cohesion and consensus among Scots for the good of the independence cause.

never mind the bloody politics has the hootsman been hacked or is this real.

did you read above Holyrood's gals steal the show, by Eck
SKETCH
Robert McNeil

#9
Watched a bit of the proceedings from Holyrood
Thought Windy looked a bit tired and bedragled, the thought of ' having been dragged through a hedge backwards' came to mind
Later on a news report
she came a croper, when stating that some proposed legislation was missing, only to be corrected by Alex Salmond pointed out that it was on page 4 of the standing orders
Think a sign of things to come, perhaps not being able to juggle home life and parliament

#5 AM2

Knowing that you 'lean' towards the right of the political spectrum, and have and 'eye' for the archives.

Can you tell me, in the 8 years of the Labour/LibDem alliance, how many of their promises were kept?

I would remind you of two things: i) they are a minority government and ii) there are 4 years in a parliament.

The pledges were based on a majority government, so please be mature and recognize the situation.

Judge them after 4 years. If they don't deliver then I'll agree with you.

5. AM2, Glasgow
Ahem, I'd have thought by this time even the most dyed in the wool Labour voter would have spotted the new political landscape.

Put it another way, isn't it absolutely marvelous what the new administration have already managed to put through Holyrood with a majority of only one?

I dunno, but from your previous contributions I imagined you'd been through the election process where parties campaign on the basis of winning an overall majority rather than what they'd do in the event of a hung parliament.

The political fact of life that you appear to want to wilfully ignore is that even if you promise the sun, the moon and all the stars, if you don't command a majority then your political opposition can scupper your best laid plans.

The new government's 'grand plan' is drafted with this reality very much in evidence.

Like duh!

I can't help but chuckle when I mentally picture the response that will come from Wendy when the majority of the Scottish population vote for independence - the same way that you, to your credit, have voted for the SNP!

Who would have thought that after fourty years the SNP would secure the majority of seats, albeit by one seat, in the Scottish Parliament?

Can somebody bring me up to speed with the SNP's airgun policy?

What a gal. "Why the silence on dentistry?" she asked, as tumbleweed crossed the floor and a distant dog howled.

"Presiding orifice," concluded Annabel, "this programme is not so much the sleek racehorse of Scottish government but more a three-legged nag with a limp." Which equine drollery she followed with a declaration that, for Eck, the honeymoon was over. Now, Annabel, dear, what would you know about honeymoons?

The voice of a hysterical munchkin reminded us Wendy Alexander was present. The thinking man's Jimmy Krankie asked a short, dull question then sat down. And that was it from the new Labour leader. The rest of the time she just sat looking petulant.

Funnily enough, the day's best speeches all came from other burdz

so funny i had to paste it twice.

AM2 do you have like no sense of humour

Do any of you actually read the articles on here or do you just post stuff all the time.

#Not the fire and brimstone performance of a man convinced that his visionary political "Shangrila" is imminent.Casting one's mind back an interview he gave to the BBC at the tail end of the SNP conferance in May,he was very bullish indeed.

Wafting his 100 day "wish list" and giving the impression that the Scottish political scene, indeed Westminster parliament was at his beck and call, he gave an extremely competent bravura performance indicating that all the scrumptious UK political oysters were his for the taking.

Taking a reality check on his deliberations regarding his 11bills it would not be an overindulgence to suggest the menu he has produced consists of a substantial helping of "MINCE "the oysters being found to be too expensive for the £.S.D. he has to spend.

I want all political reports to be like the one above i cant remember the last time i laughed at every single party including my own.

#20 AM2
So according to you, the minority government should just launch everything from there manifesto including all the points that they know the opposition will not support, therfore waste time with constant voting down on each one!
By the way the white paper on independence isnt just about independence or have you not read it all?
Suggest you do, you might take a liking to chapter 3, I know the opposition parties do

new laws to regulate tanning salons - will also be popular.

Great for tanning salons..ha.ha.ha

Alec Salmond I thought he was a man of promise turns out he was only a man of promise's .....all broken!

Tiny eck very tiny little leader......

25. AM2, Glasgow
snp.org? yeh, good one.
What do I have to justify?

Judge the job when its done, not when it's just getting started.

The first 100 days you would have us believe has been what?
Some foreign correspondent has it that Alex Salmond has taken to walking on water.

The rest say he's eaten his political opponents for breakfast, and judging by the coupons on Uncle Jack and Wee Wendy this afternoon we're in for plenty more of the same over the next session.

btw The 'Courier', is this a publication or a person?

livion what did you think of the sketch

The judicial reforms need to go much further than what the last administration proposed, although any proposals will no doubt be subject of more threats from both the judiciary & legal profession as happened last time around.

As for the Lord President, he has far too many conflicts of interest to be called 'independent' in any shape or form.

When will the Unionist "Brothers in Arms" publically support the SNP Govt. on the pledges that they highlight are missing from the Legislative Proposals.

By highlighting these omissions, it must,surely, mean that they support them. They have a simple solution; give public support to their introduction and, support the resultant Budget.

Unfortunately, I do not see this happening. The Unionist Parties are opportunistic cowards.

AM2, you are on a par with your "Brothers in Arms".

You know who would have ever thought we would have seen the day that we would all be discussing and debating this issue. I know a lot of us are arguing unionist or nationalist but the reason we are doing that is because we all know unionists included that its a possibility now when it never was in the past. Thats what we said way back when we had thatcher we used to say "oh if we were independent we would be this and we would be that and scotland would be this and scotland would be that but uck THEY'LL never let us". I never thought i would see the day i would be saying WHEN and actually meaning it.

louise2 please calm down...

The Hootsmon has not been hacked. Robert McNeil has been writing political sketches and taking the p*ss out of everybody (especially politicians) for quite some time. The above example is not at all unusual by McNeil's standards. Please realise that it is not intended to be taken as straight political reporting!

I agree though... lets have Rab McNeil for the political editors job!

Alex salmond walks on water ha ha ha

#32 Howdaydoday.

And here was me thinking you worked on a longer perspective. 5years, maybe and, then 5 years more etc.

#31

Let's not be silly here. Or rather, please you stop being silly.

It is not the job of the government to second guess the opposition. It is the government's task to try and pass their own manifesto as law.

Step 1) Propose the changes.

Step 2) Have those proposals rejected by opposition.

Then, and ONLY THEN, blame the opposition.

Right now AM2 is on the money. Easy to promise the world in opposition. Looks like they got caught out and didn't really expect to be in a position to push ahead. It shows.

THere education reforms are the best thing going about the SNP and they aren't pushing ahead. Liars or cowards. One of the two.

Do any of you remember the days when we used to say "if scotland was independent we would be this and we would be that but THEY will never let us ". You know whats different now is we dont say if we say WHEN not if WHEN. Alex salmond and the SNP have done that for Scotland. We beleive. Thats why the unionists are so scared because now its real.

Scotland is going to be independent

You know they are in denial thats whats wrong.

I remember the line in the record before the election (made me so angry) "dont sleepwalk into independence" We're not we are marching to indepndence now.

# 30 Stefan Mack. Absolultey correct.

Please remember that the 'AM2's and Upbeats' as well as the 3 English led opposition parties are of the 'Oh we canny dae that' educational system and lack the intelligence/guts to realise or evaluate why they were taught the defeatest attitudes that they have.
When solid and common sense ideas are presented to those above mentioned they haven't got the gumption to think what you said is the way it is and not your or my personal opinion. They like all sheep follow their leaders over the cliff.

When Scotland becomes independent then the above 3 English led opposition parties will then become 3 SCOTTISH opposition parties but the difference is, of course, they will answer to the SCOTTISH people and not their ENGLISH bosses.

There will be new leaders as their present ones have made it quite clear that they don't have the guts or ability to lead their parties, never mind a country like Scotland, and that is why they have to get their okays from the English. As for the AM2's and Upbeat's why they can emigrate to England and continue to enjoy their second rate status.

Slainte'

I remember back when the super soarway was a SNP backing party - I believe the used to print something along the lines of "rise up now and be a nation once again" lol i think you find some in the archives at the mitchell, make a great poster for elections ;D

Rape and Sexual Offence law - Policy Lite???

Tell that to a victum.

This is a realistic worlkoad for a consensual government

#3 I do like the Hootsmon advert for a political editor, especially the bit about "Some travel to Scotland will be required, and candidates should be able to demonstrate an understanding of social and cultural life in contemporary Scotland."

This implies that they are looking for a foreigner as their political editor, which, given that the Hootsmon is published in Edinburgh, the largest English town outside of England, doesn't really come as a surprise.

The only trouble with hiring a foreigner is that he won't really be able to look at the political realities from a Scottish viewpoint. However, that is not unusual for the Hootsmon.

Top fishing skippers (the like of David Smith, Gardner, Buchan, Bremner, Manson ..) take calculated risks because they've thought it out and calculated beforehand. And their crews stick with them. Alex Salmond had no certainty of winning the Holyrood Election. We did though! My impression was that the SNP held many competent administrators (for sure we need these in today's Scotland) but have we a leader?

Yes and more!

What about the Council Tax freeze?

Just remember - it is not a government but a devolved assembly...

No51 Carlo'

Priceless

Ignore as you say.. Just let AM2 advertise the impoverished ideals from the past. It does the Nationalist cause no harm but good.

No bite and the frustration will show....

Correct .... Is't that right AM2 ... LOL You just love the bite.

#22 In essence they want an outright ban, unless you have a "legitimate" reason to have one.

Of course they are a bit vague on what legitimate ownership is.

I am a bit concerned about the Rape and Sexual Offences Bill, while a reform is well over due - they want to put the burden of proving that there was consent on the accused.

This has a possibility of encouraging even more vindictive rape allegations. Which have been increasing recently.

I hope there is whithin this Bill some punishment for deliberately destroying a man or a woman's life because you decided afterwards you that maybe didn't want to have sex.

But I welcome anything that will cut the numbers of this appalling crime.

I have to admit I'm not surprised Labour said it was Legislation Lite - they introduced a piece of legislation for nearly every day in government.

I would like to know though what "1,000 equivalent police officers" is?

That's a bit mealy mouthed is it not?

#52 Guga - it is for "a" politcal editor not "the" politcal editor that happens to do his work in the Commons, I'm sure they have others elsewhere perhaps even one at Holyrood. The English have already had hoisted on them a foreigner as PM - and I agree again with you today that he is unable to look at political realities from an English viewpoint

As a minority government it is going to be very difficult from the SNP to do everything they would like. We must remember the other parties do not have anything to gain from the success of the SNP. I think they are trying their very best, as opposed to the arrogance of the previous administration, who thought they would get re-elected every time no matter what they did.

I have one suggestion that would not cost any money - give our Regional Parks, which take up less than 1% of the total land mass, the same protection as our National Parks, to save them from ruin and despoilation from developers wanting to cash in on the Wind Farm Super Cash Bonanza, aka the Renewables Options Certificate, set up by Gordon Brown.

There is a petition on the Executive website to ask for the protection of Regional Parks. This would not cost the public purse anything and in the case of Muirshiel Park would protect our valuable peat bogs.
The link to the petition is

http://epetitions.scottish.parliament.uk/view_petition.as...

AM2 - i was merely expanding in sarcastic rhetoric the inference of Guga's post at #52

This parliament is not the lethargic side-show it once was.

I wonder who made that difference.

Mr Alex Salmond. He is a consummate professional politician.

"Policy lite" LITE? Is this a new type of beer? I'm sorry I hate these easy spellings. Hootsman if you mean 'light' spell light.

AM2 Rome was not built in a day dear. If fact yer lib-lab lovies couldna even jerry build very well and they had a heck of a longer time that 100 days.

#65 AM2,
Scots and English may not have been politically or statutorily foreign to each other for three-hundred years, but culturally, linguistically, socially and sentimentally, Scots and English have never been a united people - and nor will we ever be.

The English are perhaps more foreign to Scotland than any other people on earth!

"We believe also that the people of Scotland want a government based on principle but able to move with mainstream opinion to build consensus in the public interest,"

hahahahaha! Alex, EVERY person from EVERY country wants that.

"the Scottish National Party later claimed that any promises not in the initial programme would be addressed in the future"

Yes Mr Salmond, why do today what you can do whenever. hahahaha (fool)

Salmond does want to be king. He wants legacy, and that is why I dont like him. This entire independence trip is an excercise in the Salmond ego. In Salmond world, Alex comes first and Scotland comes second, and thats the problem. I dont trust him, neither do millions of others.

As soon as I hear Salmond mention independence I visualise him on a throne or a horse drawn chariot with his staff in one hand waving to the masses as he parades himself down the mile from his abode at the castle. I cant stand him!

#72, Media 1,
You could be on to something, but who should take Salmond's place in his stead? Are there many other figures in independent Scottish politics who have his fortitude, back-bone and courage at present?

If so, who are they?

Alex Salmond may be the first Scottish leader to secure Scottish independence since Robert I, King of Bannockburn.

Shouldn't he at least be given a chance?

#72
'We believe also that the people of Scotland want a government based on principle but able to move with mainstream opinion to build consensus in the public interest,"

hahahahaha! Alex, EVERY person from EVERY country wants that. '

Well off the top of my head Gordon Brown is a person who springs to mind as one who doesn't given his professed admiration for Thatcher as someone who stuck to their principles no matter what.

The first Labour Scottish Executive and the last Labour/Lib-Dem Coalition, which both had workable majorities, were criticised by the Opposition parties (including the SNP) media and the public for bringing forward far too many Bills?
Now that the SNP are in minority government, a modest 11 Bills in the coming session is considered inadequate?
Like every political party there are many manifesto pledges it can never realistically achieve but with support from some of the Opposition MSPs it can cherry-pick those that are possible?
The majority devoid Nationalist government is well aware that it may only last one or two years of its
4 year term and must make the most of its precious time in government? However, it is playing an astute political game to the frustration of the Unionist leaders!

HAIL TO SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE! FREEDOM TO SCOTLAND FOREVER!

Aussie of Scottish Ancestry:

Im not sure there is anyone.

If Brown was a man in search for independence then alot more people would probably listen.

Salmond wants to be king, he has lost the plot.

Australian of Scottish Ancestry
Your earlier question (much earlier)
The SNP policy on airguns is basically to make a licence part required for posession of all airguns rather than those over a certain power as is the case now. Makes sense to me, you only need these weapons for either competition or pest control, in either case you should not be worried about having a licence.

The image is doing him justice. Independence takes up more than his frontal lobe, it occupies his entire mind.

Salmond, The wannabe King of Scotland!

#78,
The union was and is merely a product of English bribery and coercion of the deprived, desperate and impoverished Scottish population of 1707; to say nothing of the whig Scottish landlords who cashed in on the bribes of English parliamentarians in exchange for their loyalty and national integrity.

Thankyou, BMeister. It sounds similar to the Australian policy - at least in New South Wales.

#88,
In terms of economic, social and political benefits for the average, lower and working-class population, what has really changed since the period that you refer to? As for Mel Gibson, I think that most people who have seen "Braveheart" are aware of the historical inaccuracies that feature in the dialogue and general plot.

Why shouldn't Scotland enjoy the independence that Ireland now enjoys? After all, as you see fit to point out, it's not the early eighteenth century any more!

57

AM2, how long do you give him? To the end of the year?

#35 AM2
So why cant the people have a referendum??

I would be interested in you answer, considering all the westminster parties are demanding a referendum on the EU treaty, but thos same parties are denying the Scottish people righht to have a referendum on there own future. They cant have it both ways!

You have been stitched up by the Union my friends.

Mr Salmond has got the opposition rattled.

He is a professional.

Serious questions for all of you nationalists: in the unlikely event of independence, who are you going to blame? Against whom will your ire and indignation be directed? You won't have the English.

Rob is great but why have him rammed on the end of the usual guff from the northbritishman.

Wendy was fantastic yesterday- her puss was wobbling all over the place. The usual Labour lot dragged themselves to their feet and criticsed the programme. They've got some neck considering they were in power for 8 years and didn't implement their new found priorities when they had the chance. Strangley little Lavish the Viking was silent...hmmm up to something.

Am delighted that the new term has begun, roll on FMQs Wendy will be fab

#57 AM2
You must have missed how awkeward and tired looking Wendy Alexander was during the session in parliament.
As for Nicola Sturgeon, she held her own during Newsnight Scotland, did far better than check out girl Cathy Jamieson, who came accross as a complete idiot as well as Ross Finnie who is just bumbling, the Tory didnt really contribute much to the discussion either at one stage Gordon Brewer had to remind him that the discussion had moved on with the imortal words 'Im bored with that'

While I don't particularly claim to be a supporter of the SNP it strikes me that what we are seeing since they got in is dummy spitting by the Lib/Lab lot that would merit a place in the olympic dummy spitting team! Perhaps Alex Salmond should start a new quango "The Ministry for Dummies"
On a more serious note, I think he is not doing too bad generally. I am glad he has delayed the climate change bill as he can do nothing about it anyway.
If we must have a climate related bill ( and I question the need for it) it should be named "Living with climate change"

Please Note.

When AM2 has no substantive, or should I say; no, argument on the topic of the article, he attempts to delflect the thread to his usual hobby horse.

Coincidently, Media 1 appears with his usual rant against AS. Is there a connection?

As I said in an earlier post. If the Unionist Parties feel so put out by the omission of the Policies they highlighted, why do they not say publicly that they support them and would vote for the required spend to be included in the Budget.

Unfortunately this will not happen as the Unionist politicians are opportunistc cowards.

#92,
I think that AM2 is one of those staunch Scottish loyalists. You know? In response to your enquiry, there is no legal or diplomatic reason why the Scottish Parliament can't conduct a national referendum and submit the results to the International Court of the Haig and The United Nations under UN Resolution 132 of the Charter for Political and Civil Rights of 1948.

When Independence comes after Brown is routed (he will hang on as long as he can)

The Scots will find solutions to their own problems

England will be Tory again.

Both countries will be free and independent.

It will be better for both.

#94 walter ego
Im not a nationalist, but why do you think there will not be a referendum, what has the pro-unionist arties to be afraid off? So far we are all told that Scotland doesnt want Indpendence, yet people like you want to deny the peopl the choice.
In the event of Scotland becoming Independent, why would the people of Scotland want to blame?
Your just not making sense

Media 1

Your constant attempts to undermine Salmond's character are tiresome and stupid. If he'd really wanted a slice of the big time, he would have joined Labour and, like Brown and Alexander, would be seeking out a one way ticket to great world stage of Westminster. Instead, he chooses to fight Scotland's corner because he actually cares about Scotland. Do you think Gordon "My favourite goal was Gazza's against Scotland" cares about Scotland? Or do you think he cares more about the gory of being King of England, and all its additional parts? I don't think you're that stupid, but you're doing a good job of sounding like you are.

AM2
It's funny watching you doggie-paddle against the sea of truth and opinion sweeping over your head. Keep up the bad work.

AM2 as you have not answered me first time (I know how busy you are answering all those nasty pro-independence types), let me ask you again:

#5 AM2

Knowing that you 'lean' towards the right of the political spectrum, and have and 'eye' for the archives.

Can you tell me, in the 8 years of the Labour/LibDem alliance, how many of their promises were kept?

I would remind you of two things: i) they are a minority government and ii) there are 4 years in a parliament.

The pledges were based on a majority government, so please be mature and recognize the situation.

Judge them after 4 years. If they don't deliver then I'll agree with you.

8

You are absolutely correct Edward without question.One slight point of course.Cathy Jamieson knows fully well what she is saying is total claptrap.Thats why she is saying it. There has been a long tradition in Scotland and Labour of telling people absolute garbage !

The beauty is of course the Labour electorate neither know nor have the ability to work out which version is correct.I doubt that anybody in the Labour Party actually believes the nonsense they spout,if they do,they should be ashamed of themsleves.They are the party with the hidden agenda, and have publicly admitted that they lied on a number of occassions,notbaly Brian Wilson who said and I quote as near as I can recall " We explained to Scotland that she was a very rich country and could easily survive as an independent nation,but the Scottish People rejected it"!This was broadcast nationally on TV to Scotlands viewers and witnessed by at least hundreds of thousands.

Brian was obvioulsy confused and thinking of when he was a nationalist ! Thats what the SNP said Brian!
Labour told us we would be like Alabania LIES LIES LIES .

Independence would seem quite likely to me. After all, who would have though that the SNP would have won the majority of the parliament, or that Salmond would have won the seat of First Minister prior to the election?

#94

Who will we blame?

Ourselves.

See, that's exactly the kind of moral responsibility that comes with running your own country. It means you can take out your ire on your own government and your own politicians. You know, like all the real nations do.

#71 ozzy dunderheed,

Maniacal posting

#74 Kenny MackAskill

#76 Severe sunstroke there.

#80 And we are so pleased you are where you are.

AM2,

Your assertion that anti-Englishness is predominantly found amonst nationalists, whilst continuing in your usual vein of smearing your opponents, is more of the same simplistic and frankly erroneous nonsense we have come to expect.

The strain of anti-enligshness which we have witnessed over the past 30 years can be put down to in large part the Scottish Labour Party and its political mouthpiece the Daily Record. Both organisations cultivated a particularly virulent strain of anti-englishness and chippiness which sought to equate the Topry party which Englishness. This done, it sought to appeal to a particularly negative form of Scottish nationalism which gravitated toward the Scottish historical victim model. The nasty English (the Tory party) were directly attacking Scotland's national character and society (something different and more 'socialist' in outlook) and the Record and the Labour party triumphed the idea of seperate devolved government to stop the nasty English doping this to us again.

30 years of the unrelentingly anti-englishness, based as it was upon the grudge mentality, created the majority of societal endemic anti-englishness there now is in Scotland.

The SNP are now undoing the years of victim mentality and coarse, simplistic Daily Record-induced blame culture. They are solely concentrating upon the potential of Scots. It is positivist and outwardlooking (all those on the electoral roll are civic Scots, able to contribute to the civic nation - be they Pakistani, English, Irish, whatever.

Your boorish rantings on this subject, accompanied as they are with your thuggish and attempts to blacken the name of Western Europe's most progressive civic nationalist movement, are nothing short of a disgrace.

Sorry, that should be 'separate' and 'Tory party'

102

Edward, from your incoherent ramblings, I can only assume that you take sherry with your corn flakes. I shall attempt to set your "mind" at rest: firstly, I am of the view that Scotland would operate effectively as an independent nation; however, I prefer Scotland to stay as part of the UK. Secondly, I am very much in favour of a referendum: the inevitable "no" result would put the independence issue back on the shelf for another 50 years. Thirdly, the very existence of many (not all) nationalists depends on having somebody to blame/"hate": at present, the English fulfil this function. What would happen if you didn't have the English to blame/"hate"? Against whom would your ire be directed?

When it comes to bucking the odds, the SNP and Salmond have taken the cake! I can't believe the naivety of those who believe that a referendum and independence is not likely.

106

Edward comes across as having his head very much screwed on .
Anybody who would waste parliamentary debate on something(s) which has/have no hope in hell of being passed is a complete and total moron !

Good governance means achieve what you realistically can.Whether the people agree or not will be reflected in the ballot box.

Theres nothing silly about Edwards views but yours are just plain daft!

...and 'with' not 'which'...'doing' not doping'..

I suppose AM2's boorish posts induce me quick-typing-induced transposition errors.

109

Winged, you have a very simplistic view of life. Very few people in power have the capacity to blame themselves.

very clever robert mcneil
"patriots for london rule"
its 2 fingers to McMahon and some dizy letter writer

#106 and AM2 and all the rest of these mealey-mouthed, hypocritical humpty dumpties falling off their little unionist perches.

For someone who likes to call everyone else thick, boy, you must be super-thicko of the century.

The education reforms are well underway, as you know well (or maybe you don't, being so thick as you are).

For a more accurate run down of what's happening with the Big Bills, check the ever delightful BBC:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/6980316.stm

All these unionist extremists bleating about stuff like this, as if changes can be implemented within the space of a couple of hours. What a miserable lot of losers you're proving yourselves to be. All proud Scots, I'm sure.

I'll tell you, I've never felt so much digust for unionists as I do now. Look at the lot of you. Scotland enters a new era of political dynamism and has the greatest opportunity it's had in the past 300 years to take control of its own affairs, the way that nations should, and all we get from you is how you want more of the same rubbish we've had since any of us were born. What kind of gutless, witless, whining sops are you?

____

Graduate Endowment (Abolition) Bill

A total of 50,000 current students, including those graduating this year, will not have to pay the £2,000 graduate endowment fee when it is scrapped under this planned legislation.

Net income from the graduate endowment fee, which is reinvested into the student support system and not general higher education funding, stood at about £15m in 2006.

The SNP government said the fee was an inefficient way to raise money, as most students added it to their loan.
____

# Nabodican

"Living With Climate Change" ?

First impressions, it sounds a bit defeatist. Though it is certainly an area that must be explored. I like it. Will we ever see it?

116

morris, I have long suspected it but your post confirms it: like Edward, you take sherry with your cornflakes. Stick to the semi skimmed.

And while we are at it, what's happening with the Council Tax freeze?

#103 Winged Messenger:

You think its tirsome listening to my views on Salmond? How do you think it feels listening to him telling the world that Scotland must be independent without first seeing the results of a referendum.

Why cant he leave independence to one side and focus on the REAL issues facing Scotland and its people? Whilst doing that he could push forward for a referendum, WITHOUT debating independence.

Independence and Salmond are synonomous, and thats the problem here. He has lost sight, and so have the people of Scotland. We are left wondering what Salmond is actually about, whats his agenda? What the hell is he playing at? What does he do on a daily basis other than shout F R E E D O M !!!!!

These policies are those which the opposition will likely pass as well,not something where they can divert billions of pounds into trams just to make people ignorant and sick.I think we shall see a difference when the government is elected majority and not have to trim it's policies to fit unionist pocket pickers who need only be voted out of there to permit real national progress.

114 Walter

I suggest that you read post 111 which encapsulates matters extremely well.

You make the classic mistake that AM2 also makes in equating the desire for independence and self government with hating the English.

Anti-English sentiment does exist. Some of it is at the Rangers/Celtic tribal level. Some of it is based on historical memories, including the recent historical memory of the Thatcherite era.

However you are quite wrong to ascribe support for the SNP to this rather backward type of anti Englishness. You ask 'What would happen if you didn't have the English to blame/"hate"?'

What would happen is that we would take responsibility for ourselves.

That in a nutshell is what independence is all about.

That is also why the Daily Retard type of anti Englishness is also anti independence.

They want to go on being able to blame the English, they want to go on having a chip on their shoulder, they want to be able to go on moaning and girning and blaming everybody except themselves for anything bad that happens in Scotland, whether it be the English or asylum seekers or any of the other scapegoats identified by people of that mentality, because they are too gutless to take responsibility themselves.

#110,
It's actually quite rainy here at the moment - no sunstroke for me tonight! To matters of greater consequence though, you seem for all the world like another Westminster apologist.

"Maniacal?" Now you just sound like my ex-wife! "We are so pleased you are where you are?" Who do you refer to when you say "we?"

This is a pretty good list for starters. I for one don't give a monkey's if the SNP's programme for the first year doesn't cover the whole manifesto. Many Scots showed a lack of ambition at the last election an cast their usual vote for Labour and their chums. Hopefully they'll be a bit more honest and brave next time.

For now we continue to be saddled with an opposition, particularly the Labour party and their Lib Dem lackies, who threaten to push the destruct button at any time. Their narrow-mindedness means that they see their job as undermining everything SNP, not improving our country. It is clear that the SNP will struggle with some aspects of their manifesto in view of this obdurate and damaging resistance.

You'd think those blinkered and festering unionists would be pleased that not all the manifesto is here, but no...they bleat on about not delivering. What foolish hypocrites!

To the Aussie claiming to be of Scottish origin you may find your ancestors are of the Southern Variety ...The English and Scottish are more closely Related than many dumb nationals know of ..we share the same that is of course DNA of the Celtic variety...but then that doesnt interest nationlists it doesnt serve their narrow minded " Racist " views regarding our Celtic Brothers and Sisters south of the border....I say Celts of Great Britain Unite .......hahaha...

126

Miss/Mr H, you give your true affiliation away - yet again: "recent historical memory of the Thatcherite era" - what does this mean?

#106, Jalepeno.

You have a strange notion of politics.

Government is the art of the possible.

If any Government was to was its time on attempting to introduce policy that was doomed to fail they would be, quite rightly, castigated.

If the Unionist Parties were genuinely concerned about the policies ommited then they would publicly offer to SUPPORT them and the appropriate Budget funding.

Because the are unscrupulous cowards, they are very unlikely to take this course of action.

130

You might find the BNP website more to your taset Boudica. We don't give a toss about genes.

Can they afford a Council Tax freeze?

#60. AM2, Glasgow
Your overfond attachment to Queen and Empire is touching but a relic of the Victorian era.

The extreme nationalism exhibited in building the Empire over which the sun never set still demands that any of the 'pink bits' left on the atlas will stay that colour until the natives can persuade the Mother Country that her maternal concern is no longer required or desired.

Whitehall's talent for deception, black propaganda and double dealing, employed in building her empire, are legend and manifest.

What seems to escape them however is that they employed Scots to perform much of this for them. We know you know.

""You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.""

Alex Salmond is now First Minister of Scotland.
That did not happen just because he is the consummate politician, but because enough Scottish voters now know the truth and are demanding change.

You would have us believe we've all been duped by the SNP into becoming 'extreme nationalists'?

Why 'extreme', is separatist too passé these days?

Or is this just another device so that in future you can claim that of course you don't mean all nationalism, just 'extreme nationalism' and then throw any old muck in the expectation that some will stick?

With the levers of power being wrested from the old establishment, Pandora's box is now open, more of the truth will out and this momentum will only increase.

Sorry mate you can try name calling and character assassination attempts till the cows come home.

We've heard it all before, frankly it is insulting and tiresome.

#132

Correction 3rd line, ".... was to waste......"

134. Rain man
Yes, most definitely yes.
Next question?

#130,
Do you not distinguish between racial and national characteristics? Do you believe that Scottish and English culture, heritage, language and customs are the same?

I can recommend a good Gaelic study centre not far from where you "claim" to be!

131

The memory of the period where the Tories had no mandate in Scotland - in fact at one point had no MPs - yet still governed because of their majority in England. The democratic deficit as it was called. It was that period in my view which determined that there would be a Scottish Parliament.

Not one normally given to such statements but in my opinion Alex Salmond is one of the greatest Scottish politicians in history and of true world stature. Once he has secured independence for Scotland I fully expect him to play his full part on the world stage - the whole world will listen and respond to Alex.

114

I agree that a referendum is required.To suggest that a"no" vote would put it on the shelf for 50 years is however a bit far fetched.I agree referenda should ideally only be used when there is a possibility of the result being in doubt and therefore a purpose in measuring it, or where there is a requirement for authorisation.To just hold them without cause is clearly an abuse of public funds. The level of support for independence is ambiguous, but clearly high enough to kick your 50 years into touch. The two referenda on devolution should have demonstrated that point !Completely different results in a relatively short space of time.What is important is that Scotland is governed by the system which her people choose,and just as I accept the UNION when a majority wish this,you must accept the independent nation if thats what is wanted. It cannot happen without the peoples consent,so there is no slippery slope unless you consider democracy to be one .
That means you have no legitimate reason for opposing a referendum for 50 years other than you don't want change ,and seek to impose your minority view upon the majority.It cannot be the other way round because then you would NOT oppose a referendum !
Its not what you want that matters,its all of us !The Status Quo is never for long in a democracy.Sorry your argument was credible until you said 50 years.I don't know what a suitable time would be,none of us do.It depends upon the people.They will speak when spoken to!

#138,
Has it been a bed of roses since union?

#98. AM2 has to be a call sign for a computer terminal with at least 5 or 6 unionist drones having access to it. Each of whom turn out at various times to churn out what has now become the most pathetic and depressing negative propaganda ever put in the public domain on the Subject of our inevitable and long awaited independence from London.
There can be no other explanation for the fact that it stops transmitting at 0204hrs. and then starts again at 0719hrs. on this thread. 5 hrs. 15 minutes break. An android on speed, or someone with a very bad conscience, or the above. It used to be entertaining watching the contortions of this call sign trying to spin it's way out of holes, like a Ford Granada on ice, but now it has just become really sad, and more to be pitied than laughed at.

#22. The air gun policy from the SNP is that their should be none in the hands of Ned's and anyone who does not have a legal reason for having one. i.e. farmers and club members. They should be licensed and not sold to anyone without such a licence. But we are obliged at the moment to await the condescension of our political masters in London as this matter is one of the reserved categories that Scots are not allowed to legislate on by London.

The performance from the SNP team yesterday in Holyrood was outstanding and filled me with pride. I was quite shocked to see the 3 witches, Absoluuuuutely Alexander, Very Very Jameson, and Tongs Ya Bass McNeil, how haggard they looked, and how ineffectual hesitant and sour they were in the face of the SNPs slick and polished performance, looks like Alec and co are there for a very very long time.

ALBA GU BRATH..................... :o)

Nicol Stephen, leader of the Liberal Democrats, said the programme was "all dog and no dinner".

Can someone please explain to me WTF that means? Is it a metaphor gone wrong to Charlie Nicholas proportions? Or am I missing something?

Plus, and I know I have been beaten to it, but the spelling is L-I-G-H-T. The Glasgow Evening Times wouldn't even dumb down that much.

Is crop failure a political issue?

132

Jalapeno is perhaps not quite so much on the ball as AM2.

There is obviously nothing that the unionists would like more than to see the SNP government lose vote after vote on manifesto commitments which everyone knows will not be supported by the unionist parties.

Apart from anything else, that would be a complete waste of time and public money. The likes of AM2 are quite happy to girn at £100,000 to change Executive to Government but would, apparently, be happy to see valuable parliamentary time and resources being wasted on a pointless exercise - so long as it makes the SNP look bad.

It is ironic that AM2 claims to be a Tory as the Tories are the ones who have adjusted best to the new situation and are clearly aiming to get as many of their own manifesto commitments implemented as they can. That would, of course, not be possible if the SNP government followed AM2's prescription.

138. AM2, Glasgow
1690's trade war, betrayal by their monarch, espionage by and bribery of parliamentarians, black propaganda stirring of sectarianism.

Continental wars, civil wars, regicide, financial ruin, grinding poverty, fuedal servitude, political disenfranchisement, class ridden society, things in the garden weren't all English roses either south of the border..

AM2 and the racist card.

Now, as you've seen with #137, I have just repeated some stuff that was ALREADY SAID yesterday.

With AM2, we find that most of his posts revolve around stuff he's ALREADY SAID, which gets extremely tiresome and constantly draws us away from whatever we're meant to be debating (like 11 bills).

I suggest this:

If AM2 continues to repeat and copy and paste former posts or repeat the same old irrelevent themes, ESPECIALLY THOSE THAT ACCUSE THE SCOTS AND (ABOVE ALL) SCOTS NATS OF RACISM, we (regular posters) should do something about it - i.e. that we should mount a campaign of reporting his posts as unsuitable or perhaps go to the length of writing to the web editors of the Scotsman to complain about this and impose a ban on AM2 for breaking a few rules as well as spoiling just about every thread he appears on with his "let's play the racism card".

If it continues, I'll be doing this, and I suggest that those of you who are as fed up with AM2's racist accusations (which in themselves are derogatory towards at least a third of all Scots and, therefore, tending very much towards racist abuse in themselves) do the same.

It is unacceptable for AM2 to continue to try and paint us as racists when the majority of us here (and esepcially those in favour of independence) are about as far away from being racist as you could get.

I should know. I'm married to a foreigner.

It's fine if AM2 sticks to other areas of the debate, and of course it's natural that threads veer off into all sorts of directions. But the daily attempts of AM2 (and I don't think daily is an exaggeration) to lead the debate into the mire of "look how racist you are!" have reached a point of total unacceptability.

The bottom line is that when AM2 repeats these accusations we are forced to repeat our arguments to the contrary, and it's a ridiculous waste of everyone's time.

Miss H,

I suspect Jalepeno is a troll. A little vicious troll. But a troll all the same.

If not, then he seems to take a perverse pleasure in trying to rile people up. Too bad he hasn't got the brains for making a decent go of it, though.

It is interesting that labour crititise the agenda put forward as policy lite, but the McConnell era was about doing less better. (although it might be more aptly described as doing little well).

It is also funny to critise for being policy lite when the scottish parliament has so little power over some of the things that matter.

I also find it so bizzare that so much focus is given to a legislative program rather than simply the management the areas of importance. You simply do not legislate to a good education system, health service, a good economy, transport system etc. Generally they are about good management. (if u have the basic power in the first place)

Governments of all colours could benefit of not having to legislate all the time and actually running departments. We only have to look at the uk home office where so such legislation is brought forward and then not implemented or implemented as something different is coming along to meet political media headlines before the last iniative has had time to bed in.

#150 LIVILION. Not forgetting The Anglo Dutch war which saw the English fleet trashed and smashed in The Medway

#147

Yesterday was not a day for soundbites.

Remember the purpose of a legislature is not to legislate but to legislate purposefully.

Dog's dinner - a mess

All dog and no dinner - not much mess but not much dinner.

After watching Newsnight last night it was pretty clear that this programme could just about have been brought forward by any of the four main parties.

The accusation against the SNP is that they promised the earth but have not delivered on their bold promises - well certianly not this year anyway. But it is a game in two halves.

More proof that Scotland finally has a competent Government.

Listen to the opposition bleat that the SNP never put into bills legislation that they could then vote down, wasting the Parliament's time, with bills they promised in their manifesto IF they had an overall majority. Without that overall majority the SNP government have sensibly stuck to bills that will be enacted thus using the Parliamentary time in a constructive and practical way....precisely what the Scottish people want from their Government.

Ah the difference!

Great job the opposition is in tatters!

114. Walter Ego, Durness
The Scots 'running' the government.

#114 Walter Ego, Durness
Now who is rambling here?
My question to you was very clear and concise, perhaps your getting me mixed up with either George Foulkes (which Im not), or perhaps your alter ego!
Its disapointing that a straight forward question is answered by derogatory remarks, which perhahps is a reflection of your own short comings

#154 Alan. The SNP have achieved more in their 113 days for Scotland and her status internationally than the labour party managed in 50 years of corrupt hegemony. There proposals and actions to date have been more effective that any thing done by Labour since the dawn of Holyrood, and yet they still are in negative sour faced denial.

ALBA GU BRATH.

Just imagine what could have been done if the Government hadn't been forced to pay £600,000,000 on a posh bus route for Ediburgh.

Miss H:

The BNP is a legal political party who are probably better equipped to sort out Scotland's problems to a better degree than the SNP.

I mean look at his words for goodness sake.

"We believe also that the people of Scotland want a government based on principle but able to move with mainstream opinion to build consensus in the public interest,"

WHAT??????? Every person around the world wants that from their governments.

AND THIS ONE IS MY FAVOURITE

"the Scottish National Party later claimed that any promises not in the initial programme would be addressed in the future"

Had that been Gordon Brown you would be slating him for such shortsighted political delinquency.

Salmond is basically saying "dont worry about the pressing issues we cant sort out today, we will get round to them some time in the future"

WHAT? No deadline, no date for action, no nothing, just "we will do it in the future"

And you vote for this bunch of numpties?

156. Doh / 9:53am 6 Sep 2007

DOHH

130
130
The Scoti were traders who settled in Dalriada and were numerically very few.The language and culture of the Gaelic speaking Scoti became the dominant one ,but genetically they are in fact a very small part of our make up.The Strathclyde Kingdom of the Britons whose capital was Dumbarton is probably where all of us have at least one ancestor ,and were primarily Cymric celts who arrived on these shores way way back .Cymric as I understand it is the language of Wales!The Anglo Saxon arived much later in history.
YOu are correct therefore in that our ties with Ireland are not as strong as most Scots believe unless much later in history of course when they went everywhere , but the southern neighbour we probably share our genetic pool with is probably celtic Wales rather than England .

Hello Mr AM2, Still not answered my question. If you can't, please just say so.

Hen Broon 5 (155): "Not forgetting The Anglo Dutch war which saw the English fleet trashed and smashed in The Medway"

Yes, we didn't do well against the Dutch -- although Cromwell's Commonwealth put up a much more competent showing than the Stuarts. After all, in the 4th Anglo-Dutch war (as some Dutch historians describe it), they conquered England, although this conquest was a popular respite from James II/VII. Still William and Mary turned out quite well.

I suppose we can always console ourselves with the Battles of Worcester and Dunbar in the 1650s, after which Scotland was annexed to become part of the Commonwealth of England . . .

#164 AM2

NO! Sorry AM2 but the problem most posters have with you is that you see racism in EVERYTHING.

You constantly put 1 + 1 = racism.

You did it with me, and even tried to bring me down to that level of argument.

#162 "The BNP is a legal political party who are probably better equipped to sort out Scotland's problems to a better degree than the SNP."

Good to see the unionist supporters are getting there priorities right AM2.

164
The problem with your racismclaims is you accuse people of being racist when we refer to people by any identity other than British.Thats not racism on our part! Its nonsense on yours!

115. He Aussie buddy, Myself and almost the rest of the population of Scotland don’t want independence, never have and never will, it just ain’t on the agenda, its about as important to us as who is the new chairman of the Gobi Desert Canoe Club, as long as these kilted nickerless bravehearts just keep blethering, as they’re apt to do, that’s fine with us.

We are more than pleased to be British, so believe it mate, it ain’t gonna happen, thank goodness. I cant wait for a referendum to demonstrate this and finally shut these nickerless clowns up.

AM2 the only person that brings 'race' into the debates is you! Go through and look at all your own postings. A high number mention racism, even when it has never existed in the argument.

You are a broken record spouting out the same bile.

I personally would like a good honest debate with you, but I am finding it more and more difficult to deal with your illogical connections to racism. And that is a great shame.

The regular posters see you for what you truly are!

I said yesterday that I welcomed some bills, had reservations about others and opposed at least one outright.

I also observed that I felt that there were glaring omissions from the legislative programme - with issues such as housing, rural affairs, poverty and drugs & alcohol abuse missing.

I just hope that non-legislative action will be taken in these areas and that they will at least have some sort of progress in the first year of this parliament - with legislation coming forward next session. the problem though is that with a tught budget expected will the SNP be able to deliver?

We'll just have to wait and see.

'Ever had the feeling you've been cheated'

Johnny Rotten - 1977

Alex Salmond - 2007

Brilliant AM2 Jumped into it I finally managed to hook him I posted #3 about the Scotsman non job as an Editor and AM2 has been digging and digging does this guy not have a life for c hrist s ake!

#114 - why must beng pro-scottish mean having a hatred of the English. You seem to be very close to AM2 in this view. Speaking for myself I certainly have no anti-english feeling but a lot of pride in my country and it's past achievements and the way I feel we can continue in the future.
To try and cast anyone who has pro-Scottish feelings as being therefore anti-English is pathetic, wrong and frankly big-headed from an English point of view as it infers that without the English, Scottish nationalism could not exist.

143. art1000, Dunfermline
I'm not sure I'd go that far but yes he is growing into the job as statesman.

The truth is we can't really be sure how good he actually is because the quality of opposition he faces across the chamber at Holyrood would make Jack McConnell look good.

Well, old Bella Goldie had been doing well up till now but that three legged horse, with a limp gag, was just a universal cringe.

Wendy Alexander's contributions were almost too painfull to watch, as were the facial contortions she pulled once she'd sat back down.

#30 Sorry but that is rubbish - the SNP could have brought forward bills on issues such as housing or rural affairs but have not.

You have to ask them why they think isses such as the Tartan Bill are more imprtant than Housing and Rural Affairs?

When the next world cup happens will the election be after it. i think listening to commentators going on about 1966 will make people vote snp in the election.

morris (165): "but the southern neighbour we probably share our genetic pool with is probably celtic Wales rather than England ."

It's a little more complicated than that, although the full story is not known. Have you read Oppenheimer's "The Origins of the British"? It's not a perfect book, but fascinating nonetheless, as are Brian Sykes' books (although they have become a little too lightweight of late).

*140

The significance of Gaelic in Scotland has been limited in terms of numbers and impact. Gaelic has never been spoken in most of the country. English, in its various forms, has been the mainstream language of the vast majority of Scots for over a thousand years. The people in the south and a huge chunk of the east of Scotland are largely of English stock and have been for more than the thousand years referred to above. This linguistic and ethnic affinity is reflected in the strong cultural similarities we share, especially since the union which benefitted all of us. This may not be palatable to the kilt, haggis, claymore and braveheart brigade but it's the truth.

#179 exactly what housing bill are u wanting to see. (dito rural affairs)

#177 You fail to understand the lessons of history.

Scotland's greatest achievements came because of it was part of the Union. Without this political fact many of the past achievements of Scots would not have had the opportunity to flourish.

Before the Union Scotland was a backwater. With it we were in the forefront of many spheres of human activity.

And yes, obviously, Scottish nationalism wouldnt exist without England.

"#83 83. Alasdair / 8:43am 6 Sep 2007 ****************************
The SNP have been quite shrewd. The bills they have so far pushed are ones that will increase public support"

My wife - not a political animal by any stretch of the imagination - was not impressed by the list. Her opinion - and one that is increasingly heard - is that it won't make damn bit of difference - "they are just as obsessed with power and money as the last lot".

173

I agree about housing but I think it is essential that they take their time about it. The Scottish Parliament under Labour passed a lot of legislation on housing, much of which has been useless and some of which has been disastrous. The saga of stock transfer in Glasgow should be a lesson to everyone about the folly of pushing through a policy without actually thinking through all the possible consequences. Likewise, the homelessness legislation, while great in principle, leaves an immense amount to be desired in implementation.

So I think it is essential that the government does not rush to legislate on housing - they could actually make things worse not better. Supporting more affordable housing does not necessarily require legislation, it requires the will to do it. For example, in theory all new housing developments should have 25% reserved as affordable housing? Does that actually happen now? No. So perhaps we should make sure that it does.

130. boudica, Glasgow

Scotland and England are the same in the way that Eire, Wales, Canada, Australia and NewZealand etc are also the same.
They speak the same language, share the same DNA, the same history and culture, to the same extent that Scotland and England do.

Would only an AM2 argue that they are not different?

#138 AM2
It was through the betrayal by King William of Orange (King Billy) that the Darien project failed as he orderd the English navy, who were in the Caribbean not to provide aid or support to the Scottish. So when attacked by the Spanish, who were likely to have been tipped of by King William, the English Navy didnt lift a finger to help. This is despite the fact that King William was monarch to both Scotland and England. Just a little salient fact that is glazed over by unioists and followeres of the Orange order

181

It may be interesting but it is also completely irrelevant to the debate about independence.

#167. Fairfax your constant sniping on these forums are amusing. No doubt you are well read in history, but your every post is a wee bit like playground banter as you seek to score Anglo Saxon points from choice little bits of the threads. Twisting and spinning like a good wee unionist. BTW are you on the AM2 call sign.
Your last sentence betrays your Anglo Saxon imperialistic mind set which you will always have as it is in your DNA. Triumphalism and sneering is what we have come to expect from certain quarters over the years. Unfortunately for England it has lead to some very bad press. Particularly on the football fields of the world. Internationally you do not command the respect that Scotland does. The good wishes we have received since May 3rd are music to the soul, and much appreciated. People are willing us to succeed, we will not disappoint.
The Scots will soon be independent of you after centuries of oppression and retribution by your ancestors. Yes Yes I know Joanna, there were many Scots involved and there still are. Gordon Brown your Prime Minister not the least of them. The Westminster gravy train is about to arrive at it's terminus, and will be shortly a museum piece.
BTW Fairfax you can add these comments to the one I made some time ago about your pompous use of the English language.

ALBA GU BRATH.

Can pwd (#182) explain why the UK authorities have tried to impose tartans, kilts, Gaelic, and the Great Pipe as the definitive symbols of Scotland's national identity, while at the same time trying to eradicate the Scottish Anglic language varieties that are native to the east and south of the country?

186

It might be more interesting to hear what your wife thinks they should do.

#164

OK, let's indulge you for a moment.

Your problem AM2 is that you will not look at the reason for why anti-Englishness exists, just as you don't look at the reasons for why anti-Scottishness exists in England.

Here's a reason why anti-Englishness exists in Scotland :

The English media.

You have seen the kind of articles featured in the Daily Mail, The Times and the Telegraph which very openly described Scots as whingers, scroungers and one article which even described devolved Scotland as the New Apartheid, haven't you?

When a Scot sees that, how do they react?

They react, as any human being does, emotionally. The typical emotional reaction to being insulted is indignation and resentment.

This is a modern example of how anti-Englishness arises in Scotland through blatant provocation by the English media, which we have also experienced via the establishment (for example, the government under Margaret Thatcher).

So, whose fault is that, AM2?

Is it the fault of the English for dishing out the abuse or the fault of the Scots for reacting to it?

I would say it's the fault of both and that in order to overcome the hostility it is necessary, as the saying goes, to rise above it (which is not, of course, as easy as it sounds).

To rise above it is what I do in that, while I resent the treatment of Scotland by England both politically and through the English media, I do not extend that resentment to any individual or to the English people as a whole. That is silly and unfair.

But equally silly and unfair are your attempts to simply "demonstrate" how Scots are racist when they dare to complain about England's political intereference with Scotland. This is not racism. This is politics.

You're right when you say that this hostility between Scotland and England (on both sides) is a problem. But you are attempting to use racism as a means of undermining the argument for independenc

The only conclusion you can really come to following yesterday's events is that despite all the rhetoric the SNP believe most things in Scotland are going right otherwise they woud be seeking to make changes, and they are not.

Alternatively, the fear of being voted down and potentially out of office is more powerful than the desire to put right Scotland's problems.

Which is it?

AM2 (162): "Zoom (Winged Messenger) provides an elaborate justification as to why he thinks anti-Englishness exists in Scotland, and takes offence at my suggestion that people need to move beyond historical grievances."

I've always been surprised at the strength of anti-Englishness in Scotland. Douglas Robinson at the University of Stirling has also written some interesting articles on this; see

http://www.dass.stir.ac.uk/staff/staff.php?id=20

Above all, I'm often surprised that the Scots are much more negative towards the English than, say, the Poles are to the Germans or Russians, or the Dutch to the Germans, or even the French towards the Germans; after all, there has been no military subjugation even vaguely comparable in Anglo--Scottish history. It's almost as if the very structure of the Union, in allowing some national identity to continue in infrastructure, has provided the root for ethnic nationalism.

#185 AM2

Sorry, but 'one swallow does not make a summer'.

My point is, you see racism in everything pro-Scottish.

For example, my comment the other day about the vast sums of money spent on the Channel Tunnel link to London. You implied that was anti-English.

That sort of illogical jump to your obviously own deep seated racism is why most posters disengage from debate with you!

#184 No I am quite happy with my understanding of history.
Your statement that 'Scotland's greatest achievements came because of it was part of the Union' is nearly right. Change it to 'Scotland's greatest achievements came when it was part of the Union', some were because of it, some weren't. revisionist history is very objective and fairly pointless though.
Scottish Nationalism in terms of the independence movement of course cannot exist without the english as without them there would not be the UK so that's just a pointless oxymoron.
I think you missed my point and that was that my Scottish national feelings come not from anti-englishness but pride in my own nation. Whether the english are there or not is irrelevant to this.

#195 Miss H

Are you by any chance a member of the SNP?
Supporter or paid employee?

#185, Please do not report this post from call sign AM2. #185. It needs to stay as a classic example of what call sign AM2 is all about.
It will quote and re quote snippets of perceived anti English sentiment but not one word will it quote regarding anti Scottish comment found on here and many other forums in for example the Telegraph, hypocritical and politically bankrupt. Devoid of originality dull depressing and sterile.

ALBA GU BRATH.

179

They don't think a Tartan Bill is more important than rural affairs - there was nothing in the SNP manifesto about a tartan bill. It is not a priority but everything that goes through parliament is not a priority. It is a really silly argument to say that because there is a tartan bill and not a bill on rural affairs that the SNP thinks tartan is more important than rural affairs. What has happened is that the tartan authorities, whoever they may be, have gone to the government and said we think legislation is necessary, here is why, here is what we want you to do, and the government has looked at it and said OK. It wouldn't have made any difference which government it was really. If Labour had won the legislatiion would still probably be happening.

Incidentally what new rural affairs legislation are you looking for?

Winged Messenger (197): "When a Scot sees that, how do they react?

They react, as any human being does, emotionally. The typical emotional reaction to being insulted is indignation and resentment."

Agreed. However, the English media articles are themselves an emotional reaction to Scottish nationalism. They are also fairly similar to many of the criticisms of England seen in this forum, but with trivial changes of sign. I think what you're describing in the inevitable feedback effect of rising nationalism on both sides of the border. Further, such articles were almost nonexistent before 1997.

177

BMeister, why do you denigrate Scotland and the Scots? I am a proud Scot - why aren't you?

201 Not sure what the relevance is to that post buit yes I am an SNP member. Not a paid employee. it may be difficult for some people to grasp but I don't need or want to get paid to say what I believe in.

186

Not a Unionist etc, I agree with your missus.

#198 Agitating again Fairfax. You should not be surprised, but you are because you are blinkered by your superior mind set and try and look and talk down to Scots.
Please refer to my post #193 for further edification.
You are on a Scottish national newspaper forum, sneering and being smart ars*d and sarcastic and you expect to feel an out pouring of love and friendship, get real citizen.

191

Edward, I see that you've been reading the Tartan History Book again through those rose tinted spectacles of yours.

#198 Fairfax

Please don't sink to AM2's level, he consistently tries to bring ALL debates around to 'racism'.

Although I agree with you we cannot ignore it, I would say that (again only from my personal experiences) there are comments (racist or otherwise) from both sides of the border. But not deep seated hatred, I have never experiences that. The only time I have ever experienced this level of hatred has been in N. Ireland.

#198

You are a fool to think that anti-Englisness in Scotland can come anywhere close to anti-Russian or anti-German feeling in Poland.

You have no idea what you're talking about. The reason Poland exists as a nation now is because of a very fierce and unrelenting opposition to Russian and German intereference in their affairs.

Scottish nationalism is nationliasm "lite" compared to Polish nationalism.

So, Fairfax, don't bother taking up the racist card on AM2's behalf. You'll just continue to make a fool of yourself.

#197

or
- alternatively they do not have power to make changes in areas that matter.
- believe that with a minority governement they should build consensus with other parties to pass legislation (and that cannot be really done when parliament has not been sitting)
- or they believe that legislation is not the best way to make things better but by actually managing these area better. u do not legislate to make a better education system, health service, transport system (beyond getting the basic structure correct). As i pointed out previously the mess with the home office is partly to do with so much legislation not thought through and much never implemented or something else in the pipeline for politcal media reasons before the previous iniative is even bedded down.

might be a mixture of some or all. for me the things i want to see they simply do not have the power and when they do it usually through the back door so to speak.

http://platosway.blogspot.com

Surpise, surprise. This is where everyone is this morning. It's pretty much dead over at the "tigers are about to die out" story!

It's all a bit middle of the road from a party that talks about big promises. I mean, a tartans register? Ok, i'm sure someone somewhere thinks it's a great idea. Can't wait for future Scottish policies by Scotland's party! Might I suggest endangered species status for the Haggis, or compulsory shortbread petticoats to be worn by school children.

This country needs a strong arm and a new direction, I know a lot of people disagree with me but the SNP are not the crowd that are going to do it. Only when someone has the guts to stand up and talk about Scotland and it's people without wearing a kilt and munching shortbread will we be taken seriously and heading in the right direction...

#205 Walter Ego - where do I denigrate Scotland. I am a very proud Scot, that's exactly what I said in my post - my nationalism comes from my pride in my country not anti-English feelings- how can that possibly be interpreted as anything but being a proud scot - are you attributing the wrong post to me?

197

Neither. They are using the powers available to a devolved government to start to address the priorities which they have identified - economic growth, public health, upskilling Scotland, tackling crime and fairer taxation.

If at the end of 4 years they have made no difference then people can judge them on that. If they have made a difference then people can judge them on that. If they think the government has the wrong priorities then they should set out what they think the government's priorities should be.

As an English nationalist I wish the SNP every success - when he gets independance We will also be free of Gordon and all the other Evil people in Westminster.

Also remember all real men ware Trousers!

213

A rather stupid comment.

#204

Again, derogatory depictions of Scots have been rife in the English media since the union began. You don't know what you're talking about, I'm sorry. Indeed, the anti-Scottish articles, quips and cartoons were far more vicious in the nineteenth century than they are now. And perhaps you've never read anything by Dr Samuel Johnsone, which would give you a good idea of English attitudes towards Scots in the 18th century.

But, yes, of course it comes from boths sides, as it always does. Scots are just as guilty of anti-Englishness, albeit we are more self-conscious about it now and tend to discourage it wherever it arises.

But, anyway, all this has been said before.

#183 Housing - the SNP's policy is to oppose wholesale transfers of council housing stock - but encourage "small scale community transfers where the tenants and local communities want it" - that can only happen through a change to existing legislation. I'd also like them to deal with the issues such as HMOs and and buy-to-let.

Rural Affairs - a whole raft of issues that need dealt with by legislation - and fairly quickly in my opinion - the SNP in particular wanted top reduce red tape and the number of existing laws - that would require a Bill. Another example is that they wanted to introduce an independent ombudsman to give teeth to the Supermarket Code of Practice.

#174 AM2

you said

"#170 morris

Rubbish, and given that you once said about me “He might have to go back to where he came from”, I'm not surprised that you miss the point"

Thats not Racist. He could have meant that you go back to the house you left to go to work.....you know....the one where you sit and think up all your unionist claptrap ;-)

Spunk

Edward (191): "It was through the betrayal by King William of Orange (King Billy) that the Darien project failed as he orderd the English navy, who were in the Caribbean not to provide aid or support to the Scottish."

William was not an absolute monarch and was following the recommendations of his English ministers and parliament. It was not in the English interest to help an independent nation intervene in the Caribbean. If he had ordered the English Royal Navy to help the Scots, then it would have been betraying his English subjects. Since he came to power via a coup d'etat deposing his uncle, and since he was well aware of the earlier coup d'etat against his great-uncle, I suspect that he was particularly unwilling to do this.

#216 Rob7
'Also remember all real men ware Trousers!'

Was that a spelling mistake or are you really warning all real men to be suspicious of trousers?

#209
Grow up!
It is actually factual history
Why not read about it on the RBS website
http://www.rbs.co.uk/Group_Information/Memory_Bank/Our_Te...
Its something that ALL Scottish school children should be taught, especially the betrayal by a monarch, who only had his own self interests at heart
If the Darien scheme had succeeded, history would have been totally different, for a start it would have been a Scottish canal connecting the Atlantic to the Pacific

I consider myself a reasonably well informed amateur observor of the Scottish political scene, wrongly maybe.

But I cannot remember a single thing the LAb Lib Dem coalition did in 8 years in power, never mind the fisrt 100 days.

They initially opposed the smoking ban which began life as an SNP private members bill. When they saw the way the tide was running they adopted it themselves.

Labour were very wary about free personal care for the elderly. But when they looked at the parliamentary numbers they realised they would have to give ground and did.

Ditto with reform of local government voting and tuition fees. It was precisely because Labour did not have a majority in the Parliament that they had to accept those reforms.

These were not achievements of the outgone Executive but of the Parliament as a whole.

Now they, LabLib are engaging in mind numbing "opposition".
Surely "equivalent" when taking about police numbers is a commom term to cover full time and part time staff.

If rape related law stands so obviously in need of reform, where was the former Justice minister , Ms Jamieson on this issue when in power?

finally, do I understand correctly that Labour, which opposed the SNP manifesto during the election, now want it implemented as quickly as possible?

216. Rob7, England / 10:42am 6 Sep 2007

And adult's can use a spell checker :o)

#225

Yes thats what comes out your mouth when you talk

-- Scots and English

English don't exist for they are regionalists to a person: gordies, yorkies, lancastrians, devon chiels, hereford loons etc. London is utterly provincial unaware of much beyond its own existence.

Fishing from Peterhead or Newlyn would be pretty much the same to me -- or different as they're p'raps a puckle more crazy doon the sooth west but probably on a Macduff steel boat.

Anti-what?

#206 Miss H

No real relevance - I was just surprised that you were surprised that others who post here may also support other political parties.
(If you remember what you typed yesterday re:schools).

At least you are honest in admitting your affiliations - some are less so I guess they have more to be ashamed of.

Incidentally those who are saying that the SNP are scared to do anything unpopular obviously have not go round to reading this story yet ..

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/politics.cfm?id=1420562007

76 Aussie 81 Media 1

Salmond wants to be king ... Egotistic etc.

I sure think he emits a level of confidence that can easliy be percieved as arrogance, but I think this is more of a derission towards the equally arrogant and aloof asshol*es that he endures day after day.

He may indeed have personal desires to go down in history etc, but surely if he blows his own trumpet and makes all of these promises, surely he would be setting himself up to go down in the annals of history as a complete screw up, if he were not confident he could deliver what he sets out to achive.

One mans confidence is often anothers arrogance ..

Its easy to knock Salmond, but look at the horse sh*t that’s been peddled by previous incumbents and ask who talks the talk and who walks the talk ?

Its not what they say that really matters, its what they achieve ... Give the man a break, his heart is in the right place and he is not afraid to speak his mind and lay his balls out for a future drubbing if its all goes awry. yes/no ?

234

I wasn't surprised that people have political affiliations - I was surprised at what they were. I assume most people with an interest in politics have some level of political affliation.

#221 W U Merchant
i'm not bothered by that post, just surpised, so you lose.
You know you should really change you're moniker to be less obvious.

Winged Messenger (224): "Then Fairfax there is oil and the lies we in Scotland have been told to swallow for 30 years and the English wonder why they annoy the Scots so much?"

Although the McCrone report itself was suppressed, and that was shameful realpolitik, it was already obvious in the 1970s that oil would bring wealth to an independent Scotland -- if that were not so, then the SNP would not have made so much of it. Are you then suggesting that anti-English feeling in Scotland is justified because of North Sea oil? I would have said it was far more visceral.

Still, the point of the long post you've quoted is Peter's espousal of a minority view amongst economic historians, namely, that there was no economic benefit to Scotland from the Union in the 18th and 19th centuries. Are you aligning yourself with that view also?

#230

Then you have a very poor memory - what about

free personal care for the elderly
free eye and dental checks

Oh and what about STV for local elections - the only reason that the SNP won so many seats?

Why not admit you are wrong, too small minded?

#227 Fairfax
'the powerful directors of the East India Company, fearing that their monopoly would be broken and their business ruined, turned King William and the English Parliament against the venture. The King, who was endeavouring to appease Spain, was only too happy to oppose the planting of a Scottish colony on Spanish-claimed territory. The directors of the Company of Scotland were threatened with impeachment and English investors quickly withdrew their money'
'the King had instructed the English colonies in America not to supply the Scots settlement and inadequate provisions'
You seem to omit the point that King William was monarch of Scotland under the union of crowns 1603, what about the betrayal of his Scottish subjects?
More over its a fact that King William had financial interests in England and Holland, which included the East India company

#220

I have reported your post. As someone who has in the past campaigned against racism, you have no idea of the offense you are causing. But I suspect that you never do.

It will be interesting to see if your insult will be removed.

198. Fairfax
Has a similar study been conducted on say Anglo anti French, anti German, anti Argentinian, etc feelings?

I watched the Rugby World Cup prelude on ITV and Count Dracula presenting the show thought it amusing that the English would refuse to support their next door neighbours if France made it to the final and somehow England didn't.

I also watched the football preview a week or two ago and again hilarity at the idea of Man City fans supporting anyone playing against United.

229

Edward, you must have been saving this up for a rainy day, eh? Clever or what? You'll be on about Bonnie Prince Charlie next.

#212 - They have almost complete control over the NHS and education - two hugely vital areas to the here and now, as well as the future. They have a massive say in crime policy.

So where is the consensue building? Where are the suggestions for improving life in Scotland? You do not need to produce legislation, but a few ideas to debate might be helpful. It seems that the only national conversation in town, however, is independence. What happens to Scotland in the meantime?

The SNP spent years arguing that the Labour/Lib Dem adminsitration was doing nothing to solve Scotland's problems. So, where are the SNP's suggested solutions now that they have real power? Is holding onto office more important than trying to do something about Scotland's chronic health problems, the dependency culture, the rising crime rate, the declining education standards?

It seems to me that once the initial euphoria has died down people are going to notice that nothing much is changing in their daily lives. Over time, the SNP runs the very real risk of being seen as a one trick pony.

Scottish independence is not coming tomorrow, next month, next year or the year after that. So what is the SNP going to do about improving the daily lives of Scots in the meantime? What is the vision beyond F R E E D O M?

#215 - So what are they doing about these things?

AM2 ALERT.

You have been drawn in, again, by the Great Dissembler.

He is indeed, what he claims not to be. He is what's known as an apologist.

I await his usual response.

#240 Actually you chuld check out the 'free personal care for the elderly http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6301311.stm

Peeablo (210): "Please don't sink to AM2's level, he consistently tries to bring ALL debates around to 'racism'.

Although I agree with you we cannot ignore it, "

He really doesn't, in my view. The Scots are clearly very sensitive to accusations of anti-Englishness, sometimes even denying it exists. However, as an Englishman with family, friends and colleagues in Scotland, I must say that the general level of anti-Englishness is really quite surprising, and certainly much more prevalent than the corresponding anti-Scottish feeling in England (although I predict that England's anti-Scottishness will, sadly, grow with nationalism). The research group at Stirling, to whom I linked in my earlier post, is particularly interesting on this.

239

You are right that it was obvious and you are right that the SNP said that over and over again. But at the same time UK ministers were going about saying that an independent Scotland would become another Albania or Bangladesh - if you want to talk about racism there's an example for you.

The thing is in the 1970s people were more deferential towards government ministers. They did not assume that they were lying every time they opened their mouths, as many people do today. So they were believed.

In my opinion things have now swung too far the other way, people are overly cynical about politicians. But the reason for that is that too many of them played fast and loose with the truth. What you have to imagine is knowing that the discovery of oil had the potential to transform the Scottish economy and knowing that your political opponents were also fully aware of that but were lying through their teeth about it - and being believed. That left a lot of scars.

Good to see Margo is calling for the referendum bill to include an opportunity for Scots to vote on whether they want to hand over more control of Scotland to the EU or not.

Interested to know why the official SNP back Brown in opposing letting the Scottish people have a say on their own sovereignty.

Seems to me Ian Davidson (Labour MP Glasgow SW) is a better defender of Scottish independence than the SNP.

181

I agree its far from clear and far from simple.Genetics is fascinating but most of us think we know our father(some of us don't obviously)so going back to 600BC is probably not even conclusive.I agree we are a mixed bunch and in fact all DNA can be traced back to a handful of humans and they were probably all black (if life originating at the equator is more than just a guess)

I agree you were making a valid point, and my own nationalism is very much economic and I detest racism sectarianism and whilst born here I am only part Scots in my immediate parentage. We are human beings . This does not mean that being Scottish is any more or any less true or relevant.
I suspect we would agree far more than disagree and I apologise if I came over as disagreeing with you. I am like everybody else , guessing probably and that includes learn ed University fellows!
We don't know anything in absolute certainty. Even the Cymric Celt I refer to ,we don't know when they arrived from Europe,only that they were the one of the earlier of our arrivals in Wales and quite early in Strathclyde also.I think William Wallace is identified as having been a Strathclyde Briton,if I remember correctly !

Who knows anything for sure? I'm only convinced that I don't!

247

But you are dishonest in linking anti English sentiment - or anti foreign sentiment - to voting SNP.

It is a fact that you must be aware of that the constituencies with the highest proportion of incomers - Argyll & Bute, Western Isles, Moray and Glasgow Govan - are all SNP.

Equally, the constituencies with the lowest proportion of non ethnic Scots, which are all in Lanarkshire, are solid Labour.

So where does that leave your thesis?

The SNP could not have won Argyll & Bute, the Western Isles, Moray and Glasgow Govan without the support of people who are not ethnically Scottish. So how did we pull it off if we are all foaming at the mouth racists?

Edward (241): "the powerful directors of the East India Company, fearing that their monopoly would be broken and their business ruined, turned King William and the English Parliament against the venture. "

In other words, exactly as I stated in my earlier post, William's English subjects opposed Darien -- why should England help an independent nation destabilise one of its primary corporations? Had he ordered English ships to intervene, he would have been betraying his English subjects, and possibly endangering his own position as king. As king of both England and Scotland, he was in an impossible position, since the interests of the two nations was opposite. However, when ordering English ships, his duty was to follow English wishes, not Scottish ones. He would only have been betraying Scotland had there been Scottish ships present who might help.

ENGLAND'S DILEMMA

England's Current plan: Delay, obfuscate, anti SNP propaganda, pressure on big business and the press. Use patronage, titles. Business as usual.

Contingency plan 1
SNP get ever greater public support: Safe seat in England for Gordon Brown
plus continued use of current plan above.

Contingency plan 2:

Likely yes to Independence referendum: Mortgage Oil revenues to Russia. Consultation with MI5. Royal family continue secret negotiations with Scottish Government.

Contingency plan 3:

Independent referendum confirmed. Armies of international lawyers slow up negotiations. MI5 on hold.

Contingency Plan 4:

Fully independent Scotland. England agrees that this was what it always wanted. MI5 plans shelved. Queen abdicates in favour of Prince Charles.

FREEDOM

#240 Doh
'Oh and what about STV for local elections - the only reason that the SNP won so many seats?'
You mean the voting fiasco which was down to Douglas Alexander and David Cairns for the Scottish Parliamentary elections and Jack McConnell for hold the council elections on the same day
Combined resulted in at least 146,000 ballot papers being deemed spolit, plus the counting machines being programed on Douglas Alexanders instructions to auto reject, which resulted in another tens of thousand of ballot papres being rejected without actually being seen by anyone! and also tens of thousands of postal ballots that were never received in time! Labour were responsible for all of this, not something to be proud off

198. Fairfax
Sorry I got distracted there what I meant to say was what a pile of hot steaming turd.

""...the very structure of the Union, in allowing some national identity to continue in infrastructure, has provided the root for ethnic nationalism...""

What ethnic nationalism would that be, Young Asian Scots for Independence?

Does Moscow still occupy Poland? Do the Germans still occupy the Netherlands?

""...no military subjugation even vaguely comparable in Anglo--Scottish history..""
Try googling 'The Butcher's Apron' or 'The Highland Clearances' and see what they throw up.

#258
You still miss the point
King William was king of Scotland, perhaps it was an impossible decision, but he should have provided more help, after all the monarch is bigger that business. but when a monarch is embroiled in business, he will take the side that suites him best
The Scots were also his subjects, or do you not appreciate that?

#254 AM2

You ability to recognise sarcasm has dumbfounded me. But you certainly have your work cut out for you today

JOBS; DIRECTOR OF POLITICAL PROPAGANDA.

AKA;Political editor, The Scotsman
Deadline: 14/09/2007
The Scotsman requires a political editor.

Based at The Scotsman's office in the House of Commons, you will lead a small team covering UK politics to the highest standard, breaking exclusive stories and helping set the news agenda for Scotland's national newspaper. A first-class understanding of post-devolution politics and constitutional issues across the UK is essential, as is the ability to develop and manage relationships at the highest level of politics and government. The successful candidate must be able to write credibly about specialist areas of government activity including defence and security; a sound grasp of economics and finance would also be an advantage. Some travel to Scotland will be required, and candidates should be able to demonstrate an understanding of social and cultural life in contemporary Scotland.

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#260

The election count was a fiasco - but I wouldnt let that detract from the introduction of a fairer voting system -

Are you just so partisan - that you cant even support that - although I as I understand it - STV for local elections was also SNP policy?

Remember I was responding to someone who couldnt remember anything the last adminstration had done. If his memory is that bad - how does he decide how to vote - maybe he forgets on his way to the polling station.

STV elections are a great reform that will strengthen our democracy. I hope the SNP get round to splitting the dates of the council and Scottish Parliament election. I think that would get quite a lot of cross party support.

Not that you would want that.

AM2 #164:

Why did you address that post to me? You never even tried to engage with the argument I was making that your attempts to blame the SNP for anti-englishness are disgracefully mendacious.

Merely quoting a few disperate people, while ploddingly hacking their aruments together to make some sort of bizarre Frankenstein theoretical model of a political philosophy (which you then imply is that of the SNP), is, unfortunately for you, not a credible substitute for meaningful dialogue.

You really are the unacceptable face of unionism. Ditch this bizarre persona and come back as something more positive which all reasonable people can interact with.

#263 - So what's that got to do with the English? A German monarch shafted some rich people in Scotland in order to kep in with some rich people in England.

It was not about nationality, it was about commerce. Remember the vast majority of the Scots were exactly like the vast majority of the English - living in landless penury with no say in how they were governed or by whom.

252

Independence within Europe is what the SNP advocate IT means that we will remain in the EU (The EU confirm this often and repeatedly( unless of course we choose otherwise and that requires a referendum in order to be unambiguous,The question of terminating the UK membership but retaining the EU membership is only one possibility,Therefore we would have to treat any attempt at leaving the EU as a separate referendum for it to have any credibility with our other EU member states including neighbours England Wales Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland.

Before we can ballot the people of Scotland on the EU we first need the authority to do so.We're in the UK,and until a separate Scotland exists or this is a devolved matter we cannot presumably.

I'm confident that whatever the people want is the only thing the SNP can deliver.

250. Fairfax
Anti-English feeling is directly proportional to the attitudes of the individual English.

The Telegraph 'whinging, skirtwearing, aggis munching, handout monkeys' attitude generally is not well recieved by most Scots.

Anti-Englishness is also proportionate to the amount of time spent listening to Motson's international football commentry.

It doesn't stop us marrying English spouses.

270. AM2, Glasgow
He didn't say you did, he said you inferred the SNP, which you do.

Fauirfax #250:

See my post at #111. It is not the poster am2's 'highlighting' of racism that is his problem, but rather his hopelessly partisan attribution of the origin and propogators of that racism to the SNP.

The Labour party and its minnions (AM2, ironically, being one of them) have cultivated this phenomena over a long, long period of time. The Daily Record has been scandalous in this regard (whipping up all sorts of anti-english/Tory stories over an extended period of time).

The SNP are actually undoing years and years of this type of Labour-provided indoctrination.

That am2 purposefully does not highlight is a cause for deep depression (in those who want to see a reasonable argument between unionism and nationalism).

262 Livilion

"Try googling 'The Butcher's Apron' or 'The Highland Clearances' and see what they throw up."

While you're at it you might also try googling William Wallace War Crimes.

#270

You constantly mention nationalism and the SNP interchangeably.

Thus it is not a straw man argument at all.

Try addressing the point in hand (the disgraceful cultivation of anti-englishness of the Labour party and its media outlets).

Edward (263): "The Scots were also his subjects, or do you not appreciate that?"

I do. Had there been Scottish ships present it would have been his duty, as king of Scots, to order them to assist, despite the interests of England; anything else would have been a betrayal of his Scottish subjects. However, there were no Scottish forces present for the king of Scots to direct. It would have been a betrayal of his English subjects had he directed English ships to help Scots against the wishes and interests of England, as well as being illegal.

#259

How do we mortgage ourselves to Russia? What MI5 plans? What planet do you live on?

livilion (262): "Try googling 'The Butcher's Apron' or 'The Highland Clearances' and see what they throw up."

Are you really arguing that these events were in any sense comparable to, say, Polish suffering and death at the hands of Germany and Russia?

I read the McCrone report last night,on oil NOT teachers.

It made me very sad and very angry.

We were sold down the river!!

#37 frank mcbride2:07am

"Unfortunately, I do not see this happening. The Unionist Parties are opportunistic cowards."

Frank" opportunistic cowards." Frequently Win1 History proves so. But it is the 'Scottish Government' who must answer for what they have 'Promised' and then not delivered.

With Power comes 'Responsibility'

279#

Are you talking about numbers of deaths or cultural impact? If the former, then no. If the latter, then one would conclude that Polish is still spoken all over Poland, while Gaelic is virtulally dead on its feet (largely the result of firstly the banning of the language in certain areas after Culloden and then the anti-Gaelic education laws which followed hard on from this and the clearances).

It is a more complex problem than simply saying, 'but they got it worse'. Sensible people have to ask themselves: 'in which ways, and what were the results'.

#245 "They have almost complete control over the NHS and education"

I know that and i am sure everyone-else does. You missed my point that i do not think legislation is the best way to improve either. Many would think that we have had too much legislation in the last 25yrs in education for example. I am suggesting that managing public services is more important than throwing legislation at it irrespective of party.

U seemed abit confused as u actually agreed with some of what i was saying " You do not need to produce legislation, but a few ideas to debate might be helpful".

"So where is the consensue building?" any legislation that passes will have to be by consensus due to the nature of minority government. I would assume there will be over thing like local income tax with lib dems. (Although i am not personally in favour)

Where are the suggestions for improving life in Scotland?
Interesting question but the it is very subjective to whether u agree that something will make something better or not. some i would agree with some not.
some of their agenda seems
- no nuclear power - seemingly achieved with no nuclear
- development of re-newable energy
- local income tax - although this will depend on outcome of council tax rebate fight with treasurey
- firearm ban which they are trying to get power from westminster to do
- devolved media
- economic council

for me the economy is the most important but that needs fiscal power and other levers (would like to see competition policy devolved). much of the poor health of the nation is down to poverty and improvements will flow from an improved economy (this will also drive a cultural change).

Probbaly too late to post on the original topic of the thread but if the SNP beleive that the policies that they have dropped because they knew they would be defeated are for the benefit of the people surely they should have put them forward. Once the Unionists voted against them they would gather more support among the populace.

Where are the extra 1000 police officers you promised for Scotland. You didn't promise special constables or equivalents you promised REAL POLICE OFFICERS.

#278 malkster

Thanks for the interest, but while I don't want to be rude, I think it might be too complicated for you.

#245 adding to my statement in 284. also forgot one there main things has been to use bonds rather the ppp or pfi when financing things. while i do not know whether this is more cost effective or not it is a new idea on the scottish political arena.

add bridge tolls aswell.

274. Boswall
The Guardians of Scotland (Wallace and Sir Andrew Murray)were trying to expell a foreign invading force.
As for war crimes, he was up against Longshanks' total war, enough said?

The Butcher Cumberland's attrocities, the subsequent Heritable Jurisdictions Act and highland clearances took place within the United Kingdom of Great Britain four and a half centuries later.

#266
I didnt say I was against STV
but wanted some perspective as to how it was first used.
If Jack McConnell had recognised that as it was a different system and had had the local elections on a different day/week, the result would have been different for the elections in that there would not be so many spoilt ballot papers

* 194 Colin Wilson
'Can pwd (#182) explain why the UK authorities have tried to impose tartans, kilts, Gaelic, and the Great Pipe as the definitive symbols of Scotland's national identity, while at the same time trying to eradicate the Scottish Anglic language varieties that are native to the east and south of the country?'

This one surprises me. In my 40 years of adulthood I cannot remember any such imposition from the UK authorities, apart from an occasional piece of silliness such as the recent installation of a Gaelic welcome sign at the Carter Bar. What I am aware of is an increasing indulgence by too many Scots, who seem to have no clue about their heritage, in a sad distortion of Scottishness.

#287

Please indulge me, im fascinated. Can't beat a good conspiracy theory.

#268 Ex-pat observer
So much for your grasp of history!
King William was actually Dutch, not German
King William had financial interests in the East India company as well as other concerns in England and Holland
He was also King of Scotland

-- Are you really arguing that these events were in any sense comparable to, say, Polish suffering and death at the hands of Germany and Russia?

Yes I am. I'll also mention the Allies' atrocious treatment of the defeated Germans, more of whom died than in the "Holocost". And the assassination of the great General Patton who won the war for us.

www.rense.com/general75/manwho.htm

livilion (243): "thought it amusing that the English would refuse to support their next door neighbours if France made it to the final and somehow England didn't."

I'm not a football fan, but I can remember friends in England describing their support for France. However, I don't quite see the relevance of English non-support for France, since England and France have not been in a political union for 300 years.

Yok Finney (294): "I'll also mention the Allies' atrocious treatment of the defeated Germans, more of whom died than in the "Holocost"."

Millions of Germans did indeed die. Do you believe that this was also no worse than Scotland's experience?

#277
Actually some of the English were willing to help, which is why King William ordered the English Navy and the colonies not to help
As for the Scottish Navy, it was not of any great strength.
Interestingly the location was kept secret and only known to a few including King William, who mistakingly was trusted, after all he was the King of Scotland. The Scots may as well have sent the Spanish all the details directly. Why did King William tell the Spanish, perhaps you should realise that his loyalty was more to Holland and at the time Holland were allies to Spain

162

I am extrenely disappointed Media 1 that you consider that the BNP are better placed to solve Scotland's problems than the SNP is.

That suggests that you believe that the problem in Scotland is that there are too many non Scots.

That is real racism, not AM2's manufactured variety.

AM2

You're hollow to the core. You don't have the intellectual capacity to counter my arguments or to engage in a dialogue regarding the existence of anti-Scottish and anti-English attitudes, so you resort to cheap insults.

This is exactly what I mean about you. You are not interested one bit in tackling the issue of racism. You WANT it to exist and encourage it so that you can use it in your feeble posts to attack the irrefutably just cause for independence.

You're just a man of cliches. You have no original thought that has emerged of itself from your own head. You just repeat the banalities and platitudes of what others have said, and then repeat them again in your infinitely repeated deluge of posts.

It is, I can assure you, a great source of pleasure to me that the tide is turning so rapidly against the union.

And don't forget that, in our little corner of this big argument, I'm the one who's winning.

#292
How do we mortgage ourselves to Russia? What MI5 plans? What planet do you live on?

OK in reverse order then. Unfortunately I share a planet with you. It is the job of MI5 to make contingency plans for events that might influence the security of the UK. If you have legal rights to a revenue stream you you can sell it for a sum of money.

#299

Quite right, Miss H.

I think this is a perfect example of how racism is far more rife among unionists than it is among nationalist sympathisers.

Regardless of what AM2 says of me, one thing that cannot be contested is the impeccable attitude of the SNP towards stamping out racism, prejudice and similar injustices wherever they rear their ugly heads.

AM2 can say what he likes of me (and seemingly, even when reported, get away with it), but he can't say the same about the increasingly popular SNP.

The SNP example is the one I'm now striving to follow.

I think I'll join now. I can no longer suffer the prevarications and distortions of unionists like AM2 who continually and passionately downgrade our nation on every level.

Ayrshire Scot, I'm with you, man.

AM2

None of the other parties within the Parliament have delivered a single manifesto promise and why is that? is it because they have renaged on all of their promises or is it because they are simply not in a position to deliver because they dont have the necessary majority within the parliament to push through legislation. Now explain how this postion is any different for the SNP.
If the SNP try to propose legislation that the other parties oppose then it will be blocked with the accusations comming thick and fast from gits like you that the SNP are deliberately wasting Parlimentary time pushing bills they know they have zero chance of getting through so the SNP are giving priority to legislation that has a chance and has indeed been passed thus showing they can do the job they have been elected for in spite of the for the first time ever combined opposition.
And how do the opposition spin it? well just read yer ain posts they read like a new labour leaked report.

Clearly Eck has been thinking about how nice it would be to be in charge but forgotten to think about what he is going to do. This makes the programme of the last administration look inspiring which is some feat. Never mind Lucky Jack, Henry McLeish had more ideas about how to change Scotland for the better than Eck. I suppose it leaves more time for the "national conversation" which hopefully will not be the complete waste of time that New Labour's "big conversation" was. Clearly Scotland is still very short of new political thinking and inspiring politicians. The only politician with a little bit of magic seems oddly to be Mrs Goldie.

The SNP are laughable. Most tartan nationalists don't even realise that independence from our hated English brethern still means that >75% of our laws come from the EU. It's an absolute disgrace and they'll only try to silence you if you speak out.

http://www.infowars.com/

Edward (298): "Actually some of the English were willing to help, which is why King William ordered the English Navy and the colonies not to help"

The praiseworthy compassion of some English present is not relevant to the William's decision, in which he was following the wishes of his ministers and of the English parliament. I'm not willing to defend all of William's actions whilst juggling his responsibilities as king of England, Scotland, Ireland and Stadtholder of the Netherlands, but his decision to order English ships to not help the Scots in Darien was legally correct; to act otherwise would have been for him to be wearing his "hat" as king of Scots whilst ordering the English navy.

222

Change to the legislation on stock transfers can only be done in Westminster. The Treasury sets the terms, not the Scottish Parliament.

The SNP can address right to buy and houses in multiple occupation but it makes sense to do that in partnership with local authorities, which is what I understand is happening.

On lessening regulation - the document says that theu will create a single environment and rural service to businesses who have dealings with SEPA, SNH and other regulatory bodies.

That is what people have been calling for - I don't believe it requires legislation. You can't expect it to happen instantaneously, nothing does in government. The FBU, CBI etc have already said that they don't actually want a one in - one out policy which is what some people were punting so that is why the SNP are not doing it. As I understand Jim Mather will be announcing details of the approach to regulation as well as reforms to Scottish Enterprise in a few weeks.

The point has been made by several people on this site that the SNP manifesto was based on an assumption that they would have a parlimentary majority through coalition with other parties.The electoral arithmatic has created a situation that is new to all members of the Scottish Parliament because listening to your opponents,flexibility and comprimise are required.Probably a bit of a shock for political parties that were used to getting their own way.

More important than the amount of legislation is whether the SNP government are able to implement policy that meets with peoples needs and makes a difference to their lives.I think that abolishing tolls on bridges,reform of the rape law,updating public health legislation and abolishing graduate endowments are examples of legislation that is sensitive to the aspirations and needs of society in Scotland.

Of course,as some have pointed out,there is a great deal of legislation and public concerns that need to be addressed during the period of this parliament.I think that Alec Salmond is listening to his political opponents and this will be reflected in future legislation.He is a smart politician who is learning how to run a minority government extremely fast.Some of his opponents still have a lot to learn about the reality of the new politics.I actually find it very refreshing and I hope that it will stimulate a greater interest in politics within Scotland
Dr Bill Reynolds

To more serious matters - where's our Council Tax freeze?

;)

300 WM

How can you expect a biggoted rascist to engage in dialogue regarding rasism without being self critical?
he would first have to admit his own obvious failings.

295

Neither has Scotland and England. A political union implies a Union and treaty of equals not a conquest and take over of the smaller by the larger.

#146 Hen Brown
If you thought that was a good performance by the SNP.then you are awfae easy to please.

SNP. are definitely on the back foot,not much sign of the triumphalism as witnessed at May party conference.

If they last, they are in for a long haul.

287 Malkster .

I believe what is being suggested by Bailie is that the surreptitious nature of the UK "government" is such that there is an outward projection of parochial understanding towards the UK citizens and then there is the macro level politics played by the real powers in the world.

Mortgage to Russia. Sell off future income from ALL North Sea produce. Essentially take the money now and run and leave the latent debt to the whole of the UK. Scotland spits, the oil is essentially gone and there is no money to be gained as its all been consumed by the UK.

MI5 plot .... Lets get real, these buggers are behind so much "manipulation" of current and world affairs. It’s all about power and the maintaining of control over everything.

The Scottish desire to split from the Union has far greater impacts than are being discussed. The powers have built their fortress around many factors and one of them is a serious control of resources. Scotland affords the UK a considerable level of resource and as such, all efforts will be made to subdue, coerce and manipulate folks so they can maintain their "absolute" and "corrupt" powers ... Or something to that effect ...

As for Lizzie abdicating. Another sore arse year for her me thinks ... Annus horribilis

Is that fair enough Baillie ???

295. Fairfax
This was Rugby football, the World Cup starts tomorrow.

I cheered on England when I lived there.

I really can't be ar$ed checking but I believe England and France have spent more years under the same political regime than Scotland and England have.

The Norman invasion, why?
Agincourt, 100 years war etc.
Allies against the Bosch and all that.

#308 Suomi

It has already been pointed out on this thread that just because the SNP do not command a majority it does not prevent them from introducing new bills for debate.

It is after all a Parliament.

#311 he can't help it - Hen inhabits not just a different planet from us but an entirely different universe . . .

malcolmcean (282): "It is a more complex problem than simply saying, 'but they got it worse'. Sensible people have to ask themselves: 'in which ways, and what were the results'."

It is. I propose you conduct the interesting experiment of putting the issue to Polish immigrants. You might ask whether they agreed that the oppression suffered by Poland over the past 300 years was greater, or less, than that suffered by Scotland. Be sure to mention the numbers involved (i.e. thousands of deaths, rather than more than 10 million). Perhaps they'll be sympathetic to your suggestion that the demise of the language of a small minority was morally equivalent to the destruction of their independent polity.

#293 - Apologies, I will rephrase:

So what's that got to do with the English? A Dutch monarch shafted some rich people in Scotland in order to keep in with some rich people in England.

It was not about nationality, it was about commerce. Remember the vast majority of the Scots were exactly like the vast majority of the English - living in landless penury with no say in how they were governed or by whom.

305. Reckless, Fife
No they point out when you're talking keech.
How many laws are there on the Scottish Statute Books?
How many of those were handed down from the EU?
Gey few!

#233
To some extent you are correct that England is regionalist. Our view of Scotland and Wales has been pretty much that they are "regions" in the same way as regions within England. We mistakenly assume British = English in the same way as Glasgow absorbs its outlying areas (do the good people of Milngavie really regard themselves as weegies?)

However, regionalism only goes so far as Two Jags discovered when he tried to concoct gerrymandered regional governments for England and voters from all parties told him where to stick it. Even regions based on longstanding historical identities wouldn't work. Yorkshiremen (and women) know that they are superior to everyone else, as do Lancastrians, Devonians, Cumbrians and so on - they don't want or need an assembly to tell them so.

There is an increasing English (as opposed to British ) identity emerging. Previously the English identity was only really about the football team (World Cup Final 1966 England 4, West Germany 2 just in case no one has mentioned it) but that is changing, largely as a reaction to the effects of devolution and the pronouncements of politicians North of the border. Whilst Scots (and, to a very much lesser extent, Welsh ) can argue amongst themselves whether they would be better off in or out of the United Kingdom, frankly whether Scotland goes or stays will make little economic difference - there might be a nudge up or down but nothing drastic. Politically, things would be an awful lot easier as, not only would England not have legislation being voted in by MPs who are not affected by it, they would be able to pretty much ignore Scottish wishes altogether when deciding on policies. Within the UK, there is a partnership, albeit the big partner gets the most say. Outside a United Kingdom, Scotland will still not really be "independent" of England, it will just have very little say as to what its big next door neighbour gets up to.

Scotland is perfectl

286

This is an interesting one. I didn't understand what the equivalent of 1000 additional police officers meant either.

So this is what I have heard. At the police conference Cathy Jamieson referrred to where Alex Salmond made a commitment to employ 1000 additional police officers, he was apparently attacked by delegates who had decided that it was all a con. How? Because they thought the plan was to count the number of additional police officers who would be employed to replace retiring police officers as part of that 1000. Apparently this is what the previous Exec were in the habit of doing - so when they announced more police they were in the habit of forgetting to mention that many of these were to replace police officers who had retired.

So that is why I think the wording is quite careful and commits them to the deployment
of the equivalent of 1,000 additional police officers.
That may well mean employing an additional 1,500 police officers - some of which will be to replace people who have retired. But there will be teh equivalent of 1000 additional officers on top of that.

#281, Howdaydoday.

I accept that you are referring to our Scottish Govt., but would it not be fairer to assess this Govt. over its period of office rather than 100+ days.

It is quite clear that they are attempting to execute thei Manifesto but, I think you would agree that it would be a futile waste of time and energies to attempt to push forward policies that are doomed to be defeated. Government is the art of the possible and, the SNP Administration is, IMHO, doing a very good job given its minority status.

Isn't it great that they are going to bring in a bill to register tartan? Sums up the SNP, anyway..

I am against Independence, but I don't fear it. Indeed, as I have pointed out, Independence without an independent currency means that Westminster retains the economic power anyway and the 'Independt' Scotland decides the colour of the manhole covers and suchlike. Making them tartan cloloured will be so much simpler now we have a tartan register!

Alex Salmond has chosen minority Government and doing nothing insted of forming an alliance with the Liberals and actully doing something. That's why this programme is so light on action and so heavy on posturing.

The good thing is that, with independence, there will be no more need for an SNP. There will be nobody else to blame, and the problems, lack of opportunity etc will all remain. They will probably even get even worse!

#316 - It may also be worth asking about Polish voting rights during that period.

In 1707 how many Scots were able to vote?

#322 Willie
"Isn't it great that they are going to bring in a bill to register tartan? Sums up the SNP,"

To be fair it was a Troy suggestion.

#306 Fairfax
So by that same token (or thinking), do you believe the current monarch would hold English interests more important than Scottish ones and be inclined to support English interests above Scottish. Or do you think the Monarchs position has changed since King William?

311

We didn't have a party confererence in May. And we are not triumphalist. We are of course pleased that we won the election, against all the odds, but we will not feel we have triumphed until Scotland rejoins the world as a free and equal independent partner.

livilion (313): "I really can't be ar$ed checking but I believe England and France have spent more years under the same political regime than Scotland and England have."

Not at all -- France and England were not united in political union. They also warred vastly more than England and Scotland.

The dukes of Normandy did, of course, become kings of England, and Henry II controlled most of France whilst king of England. For the period from 1066 until 1453, kings of England often held extensive lands in France, and Edward III claimed the French throne in the 1340s; following his victory at Crecy in 1346, this then precipated the Hundred Years' War. There was a short period following Agincourt during which the heirs of Henry V were to become kings of both France and England, but this ended with the final French victory in the Hundred Years' War a few decades later, in 1453.

The king of England continued to claim kingship of France until one of the treaties of the Napoleonic war. Political union was suggested again, but rejected, by England (in 1940) and a senior French government minister (in 1956, I think). Of course, there have been many, many battles between England and France and, later Britain and France.

Despite all those centuries of rivalry and warfare, there is no automatic anti-French or anti-English support in sports, to my (admittedly meagre sporting) knowledge.

well put it this way.... SNP have delivered more in 4 months than scottish labour did in 7 years, if you look at policies pledged to policies acted upon, you will see that SNP have a good percentile of action.... whereas labour were all talk and no (dare i say trousers)!

#317 Like so many conflicts in the past it is usually about power & wealth not about nation vs nation. Some of the most notable events in our history are cited as Scotland vs England when they are in fact infights amongst blood-related nobles.

#319

Good post, SO.

One of the most fascinating consequences of devolution in the UK has been the effect on how England perceives itself.

I can't see how this can be viewed as anything more than a very positive thing. England is one of the most culturally vibrant and creative countries in the world which may become even more culturally enriched as a result of gaining its independence.

And, yip, you're spot on that it would be a shame if it were the English who decided Scotland should go on its own. I think there are still a few Scots out there who need to be woken up to the fact that this is a distinct possibility.

Edward (325): "do you believe the current monarch would hold English interests more important than Scottish ones and be inclined to support English interests above Scottish."

I don't really know, and our monarchs now have almost no power. However, to reiterate my point earlier, William had no authority, as king of England, to order English ships to aid the Scots. Do you believe he should have ordered the English ships to help because he was also king of Scots?

#317
Nope you still dont get it
It wasnt about King William shafting rich people of Scotland or England. Its about a monarch with his own self interests above those of Scotland
The people that he 'shafted' were not all rich. The Darien project was proscribed by a wide cross section of Scotland. It was also widley subcribed by many English , but they were threatened not to and subsequently had there money returned
Whenever Darien comes up, there are ill informed comment that it was all down to Scots ineptitude, frankly Im fed up with the air brushing of Scottish history as if it didnt matter.
Darien was never ever taught in school history, its only lately that it has been exposed, due to its contribution towards why the act of union came about. If King William had not alerted the Spanish and had King William not instructed the English Navy and colonies to ignore any request for aid. Then History would have been different

-257 Miss H.

Think there was a move to the SNP on the West coast because at the local level at least the SNP came across as the party most opposed to windfarms?

If you are against wind farms (like me) this is one of the strongest arguments for Independence because they are a major Union disbenefit!

Market price of power is £40MWh. Windfarms get £90Mwh because they get a £50MWh ROC subsidy, guaranteed by the British government, indexed linked until 2029! 90% of this subsidy comes from the electricity bills of E&W customers.

So in the event of Independence I assume that the ROC liability will pass to Scotland for all Scottish windfarms - this is a seriously big bill!

I know that the SNP talk in terms of keeping UK infrastructure arrangements in place, but you can't pick and chose on this one you know - i.e. decide your own renewables and nuclear policy but then expect that England and Wales customers will subsidise whatever the Scottish government decides.

#312 Scars - blue, blue as the sky

Honest Jock (310): "A political union implies a Union and treaty of equals not a conquest and take over of the smaller by the larger."

The Act of Union contained no statement that Scotland and England would be equal partners as states. Any union of England and Scotland as equals automatically gives individual Scots more say than individual English. Given that England has 50 million people and Scotland 5 million, do you propose that each Scotman's vote should be worth 10 times each Englishman's vote, to provide equality as states?

#327 Troy MacLure
You may remember him from such political blockbusters as 'Major: A Greyer Shade of Pale'

#302 Winged Messenger

Why don't you put on a Union Jack tee-shirt and then go down the pub and then out Clubbing take Miss H with you.

Then you can tell everybody what the response was. And you'll find most of the abuse will be from S.N.P Supporters.

And the you can both go out with wearing Saltire tee-shirt then compare what the response is....

The S.N.P Encourage anti-English feeling by portraying the 'Union' in a negative view point (always) Then feign surprise when their supporters behave in a Racist manner. Toward the English or pro-union supporters.

When will the S.N.P take proactive actions towards anti-English Sentiment IE- condemn it and show they are against ......ALL RACISM

#329

"SNP have delivered more in 4 months than scottish labour did in 7 years"

Talking a good game is one thing delivery is another matter - as frank says earlier:

"would it not be fairer to assess this Govt. over its period of office rather than 100+ days"

I have to agree with him 100% - in my opinion it far too early to make any sort of judgement about SNP achievements.

316. Fairfax
Changing your tune aren't you?
""...after all, there has been no military subjugation even vaguely comparable in Anglo--Scottish history...""

Well I would suggest that the rape and murders committed by agents of the Crown in Scotland, the removal of land from their rightfull owners and the 'ethnic cleansing' of the highland people are more than just vaguely comparable.

In percentage terms per head of population and lasting effects these were just as marked as anything the Germans or Communists perpetrated two centuries later.

The difference being the Hanoverian regime that committed these acts in Scotland remained in power to cover up their misdeeds.

#328 - As I recall, the headline on the Daily Mirror the day after the 1998 World Cup final was: "Arsenal win the World Cup". With a team full of English-based players, te French were widely supported in 1998 following Engand's elimination and were again in 2000.

That siad, there is a minority of xenophobic peope in England. The are more noticeable than their Scots counterparts because as England has a population of 50 million there are many more of them. Percentage wise I would have to say that the figures are probably similar.

245

I used to think that you were a bona fide observer but now I am suspecting that you are not. or perhaps you just don't pay any attention to what the goverment is doing.

Solving Scotland's chronic health problems is one of the top priorities for the SNP and the other parties are already squealing about what they propose to do about it such as making waiting times actually mean something. It was amazing to watch them all last night on Newsnight saying oh you can't make waiting time gurantees enforceable. Well what is the bloody point in having them then?

Equally, listen to the whinging about action on alcohol when we have absolutely no chance of reducing health problems until we can reduce drunkenness. So I am genuinely surprised that you have not picked up on this along with other initiatives like the cervical cancer vaccination programme or free school meals for every child in P1-P3 in local authorities like Glasgow. (People may well say it should be everywhere, but you do actually have to pilot this before it can be rolled out everywhere as there are quite a lot of logistical issues to be overcome).

Equally, on crime, there is the commitment to deploy an additional 1000 police officers - not simply to replace officers who are retiring, but to increase the overall numbers of police officers patrolling the streets by 1000. Did you miss that one too?

Declining educational standards - actually educational standards in Scotland are not declining, they are improving. Educational standards in Scotland are better than elsewhere in the UK. What we do have are areas of deprivation where standards are very low. That brings us on to your suggestion that we ought to do something to tackle dependency. Too right we should, when there are wards in the city of Glasgow which have over 50% of working age people on benefits - and no surprise these are also the wards with the lowest educational standards and lowest life expectancy as w

#332 Fairfax
Actually King William did have power to order the English Navy at that time, as the monarch was more central to government, allthough actual laws etc were controlled by the political classes through parliament, there was heavy royal patronage, which continued through to German George resulting in the loss of the American colonies in 1776. (even upto the first world war the monarch usually got involved in planning)
I wouldnt have expected King William to instruct aid to the Darien project, but I would have expected at the very least that he did not command the english Navy and the colonies to not provide aid

#333 - So, as I said, a Dutch monarch shafted some rich Scottish people.

Let's not pretend that the vast majority of Scots were affected one way or the other by Darien. The vast majority would have had no clue as to its existence. They lived in abject poverty with no control over their lives and would not have had a bean with which to subscribe to Darien or any other foreign venture. Rather like the vast majority of the English at the time.

#1 Louise2: Come now, the Scotsman has to provide some credible opposition to SNP policies. Unlike Labour, the Tories and the Libdems it doesn't have to run things past London for approval.

Unless that Lib-Lab-Tory dream team is about to become a reality? LOL!

338

The Union is not in Scotland's interests and I make that point every chance I get. You would have to be a bit stupid to see that as being anti English. The Union is a treaty, like any other. It is a political arrangement and like any political arrangement it is susceptible to reform or indeed complete abolition.

You do of course get stupid people who cannot see that but in my experience stupid people are in the minority and I do not think it would be a sensible idea to let them decide our constitutional future.

#342 - So we agree there are huge problems in Scotland. Then why was there so little focus on these issues yesterday? And are you really telling me that you can do nothing about the dependency culture until independence? I am afraid I just do not buy that.

We need more than commitments and rhetoric, we need action. There was very little of that yesterday.

338. howyoudoingboy;

Fraudian slip there old bean.
The Union Jack tee-shirt is favoured by Orangemen and BNP supporters up here.

You would most likely be attacked by anyone of colour, or ginger hair and freckles saying 'to be sure' at the end of sentences.

The Cross of St George , as well as the red hand of Ulster, is mostly only worn by Orangemen and Rangers supporters.
There it would most likely be the guy with the freckles you'd need to watch.

Nationalists in Scotland would most likely draw you a dirty look rather than physically attack you, but they might attack your views on Scottish nationalism should you air them.

#312

If and as Russia already has the worlds second largest oil and gas supplies they almost definitely do not need them; the UK government did this then Salmond would be able to do a Chavez and simply renationalise. What a chance to be a hero.
I was under the impression that the SNP wanted to keep the Queen. As for the MI5 comment, maybve you mean MI6 or the SIS but you honestly have been reading too much Le Carre.

#338 howyoudoinboy

i take it you have participated in such an experiment or similar??? or is this just a stereotypical assumption??

#326
'We didn't have a party confererence in May. And we are not triumphalist. We are of course pleased that we won the election, against all the odds, but we will not feel we have triumphed until Scotland rejoins the world as a free and equal independent partner.'

Won an election against the odds? I belive they had closed bets some time ago at the bookies! People were fed up with Labour and Tony Blair and Iraq. It was clear the SNP were going to win. In the end the win was unconvincing.
'we will not feel we have triumphed until Scotland rejoins the world as a free and equal independent partner.'

Yet again, I point out that you intend to work with the UK (i.e English?) currency. So the UK economy remains, they only difference is we opt out of influencing it. Not one SNP supporter has responded to my repeated point on this. And why do you insist on putting Scotland, as it is now, down?

You don't need tartan passports or border controls to be a nation. Scotland and Scots already prosper in the Union. Why do you want to be a big fish in a small pond? Currently a Scot is UK Prime Minister!

It is quite possible, were Independence to come about, that Gordon Brown would be it's prime minister. Now that would really be ironic!

319

Scotland is perfectly free to go whatever way it wants. It would be unfortunate if the decision was actually taken by England deciding that Scotland is more bother than its worth.

Unfortunate for who? It will be incredibly unfortunate for some of those English regions you mentioned. Have you completly forgotten or are you trying very hard to ignore the very obvious North South wealth divide within England?
Actually its not even fair to call it a North South wealth divide as one of the worse hit areas of national neglect is actually East Anglia.
As an Independent Scotland will have to deal with areas of neglect such as mainly in the South West and parts of greater Glasgow so will England have to deal with the greater inbalance driven by an overheated South East.
Now as England has had full control of all the UK resourses for 300 years it begs the question as to why this state of affairs actually exists and more importantly will it continue to exist after the Union splits? or do you wish to continue to believe the Rosy picture you delude yourself with actually exists south of the border?

livilion (340): "Changing your tune aren't you?"

Not that I can see. I don't see that your death-rate argument holds water either. The number of Polish deaths in WWII was in the millions, i.e. on the order of 10% of their population. The number of deaths in the Scottish historical events you cite was between 0.1% and 1% of the population. However, I would take the view that absolute numbers of deaths matters in this context.

#327, #337

Yes, Troy McLure - you may remember from his role as a thrusting young Tory MSP in "Tartan Tory - The Movie"

His next appearance is as William of Orange in "Your Colony or Mine". He is looking for a dialect coach.

Oh dear,think "wee ecks" bubble has burst, can he really change things in Scotland,or is it more wishful thinking than substance!

344. Ex-pat observer
The difference being that in Scotland the population were educated and literate and understood that they as Scots were being shafted.

At this time Scotland had four times the number of Universities servicing a population maybe one tenth that of the population of England.

The common people in England were kept illiterate and uneducated in order to preserve the English social order and were lucky if they even knew what was going on outwith their own hamlet.

Did everyone hear that moaning sound??? or was it just me???

352. Not strictly true,house prices in the north-east of England have risen faster than anywhere else,we seem to be on a upward curb at the moment.

334

The SNP is not against windfarms. But we are against imposing them on communities where a clear majority are opposed to that.

We would like to see all of energy policy devolved. Of course we are going to keep infrastructure in place -the alternative presumably would be to knock down the national grid and then build it again which would seem rather futile.

But the payment of subsidies and the charges to connect to the grid should in Scotland be decided in Scotland not Westminster.

I think there would be general agreement that offshore wind and marine renewables along with carbon capture and disposal are going to be more important in the future and it makes sense that the government is able to take strategic decisions to support that.

A lot of unionists would agree with that too so possibly this is going to be one of the powers they argue for within the devolution settlement.

nice to be welcomed guys,now take your stupid heads off and lets get down to a serious debate.

347

Yesterday was about legislative proposals in the first year - not all 4 years. They cannot make commitments beyond that until they know what the Scottish budget is going to be and they won't know that until Westminster tells them in October. That's the way it works.

But I am very interested in how you think we can overcome the dependency culture without any say in how tax and benefits operate.

What do you actually think can be done within the powers of devolution?

353. Fairfax
So who's statistics are you using and would you like to share link?

The entire highland way of life, their towns and villages, their culture, and their language was systematically dismantled.

That magnificent empty barren boggy moorland you see all over the north of Scotland did not always look that way.

We think of the highlands as we see them now after centuries as grouse moor and sheep farming have changed the entire ecosystem.

I think the Poles would empathise quite closely with that.

Good afternoon fine people of the Scotsman and Mona.

That's an unfortunate graphic they use at the top of the page, but all the same nice to see that Clive O'Neil's photoshop training day came in handy. I'd have thought he'd have placed 'That Woman Wendy' not on his brain but nearer his anus.

The delight of yesterdays televised session was playing at 'Where's Wally? aka Wee Jack' eventually I spotted him so far back in the backbenches that he was nearly sitting in the front row of the spectators gallery. Can he really be so bitter that he can't bare to sit near his colleagues, who royally shafted him?

Excellent legislative programme for a first time Government, just enough to keep everyone on their toes and edge the consensus closer to referendum.

Well done FM Salmond and team I salute you.

#321 frank mcbride

I agree with your analysis regarding the S.N.P inability to carry out their commitments due to being in a minority position.

It's where they attempt to convey the illusion of 'Strength' They appear contradictory perhaps they would be better of admitting their limitations honestly
they may gain some respect.

question. can alex salmond make a difference to the every day life of the average scot,bearing in mind his minority goverment and his lack of political clout!

Good afternoon Norbert,hope this day finds you well!

360. Miss H
Expect an announcement from BP about the Peterhead CCS hydrogen powerstation project in the next few months.

359

Oh please the housing market all over the UK is a shambles we pay more for our homes than anybody else anywhere in the world and its only the fact that home owners can make serious profits if they sold their homes that actually keeps everybody from screaming blue murder.
If the Housing market in the North ever reaches the proportions of the South then how on earth is the less paid and less well off average Northener going to cope if the better off and better paid average Southener is struggling just now?

The SNP are running a minority Government and cannot therefore be expected to get their entire manifesto through parliament.

#366. mona
see 368.

#366 Mona

If the opposition parties stop acting like children then...yes!!

#348 livilion, livingston

"You would most likely be attacked by anyone of colour, or ginger hair and freckles saying 'to be sure' at the end of sentences."

Thank you for validating my hypotheses you do show a remarkable degree of 'Racist' thought. You really are appalling.

349 ... malkster .

I was not really looking to join the argument one way or another, I thought I was putting down my perception of what Baillie was leading to.

Not read any of those books BTW ...

My tuppence worth is that there is an under current within society that is anything-but proletarian and typically these are the powers that be. You, I, and everyone else is mostly a spoke in a wheel and their politics take only the most simple notion of nationhood and pay lip service to the hoi polloi, all the while maintaining their own status quo.

My belief is the Alex Salmonds politics put the welfare and people of Scotland as the priority and it is visionary and bold.

I have no great allegiance to any party, just my country and to those that will stand up and be counted with the object of improving "our" lot, then they have my support.

We must widen our horizons and raise the game within our own country. The world is changing and to have no control over our immediate affairs is no use to the people of Scotland. Management from afar is no good

As for MI5 or indeed MFI, I think the suggestion was merely the use of surreptitious agencies with alternative motives. Excuse my lack of pedantry in this matter.

#46 Benthehoose

Wendy is certainly living down to expectations. And there was me thinking she was the huge intellect and master of detail. As I said before, she is only a huge intellect in comparison to her Labour colleagues and as for her running rings around Salmond with her grasp of detail au contraire...........She just looked stupid and out of her depth yesterday. She was really not enjoying the experience.

366

He is definately limited with his options under a minority government but if you want to see all of the manifesto promises delivered then the Scots electorate has to deliver to him the majority he needs. Dead simple logic really.
But look at the contrast. Labour has had that majority for decades and what have they acheived with it? are you happy with the state of affairs now? are you happy with where Scotland is now after all these years of majority rule by Labour and the Tories?

#367

A good afternoon to you Ms Moina, this day finds me in absolutely tickety boo condition having just spent an amiable evening in pleasant company and concluded a deal not two hours ago that realistically means I can put my feet up for the rest of the year.

On top of all that, I'm delighted that my good friends in government have managed to annoy the unionist parties by presenting a common sense legislative programme that will only endear them to the electorate.

So yes, fabby day for feeling well.

351

Anyone advocating setting up a seperate currency immediately following independence would be plain stupid. The SNP are not stupid. I am sure you would love us to say yes we'll launch a new tartan covered Scottish groat the day after independence is declared from the top of a shortbread tin in Edinburgh Castle yaddah yaddah. Fantasy land.

We don't want tartan passports. We don't want border controls.

We do want to control corporation tax. We do want to control the deployment of Scottish soldiers.

These are the things that independence is actually about. You ought to open your eyes and take a look about you. Look at our neighbouring countries. Look at their level of economic growth compared to ours, look at their life expectancy. Look at all the measures used in the FSB Index of Success for example - an index of success in which Scotland came last.

If coming last is your definition of success then you are unusual. If you believe that Scotland cannot do any better than that then you are defeatist.

This site can be very hynotic.Before breaking away and doing some work,I will reply to two contributors

Döh-314

Yes of course the SNP can introduce bills for discussion but I think that Alec Salmond needs to make a strategic assessment of whether an important peice of legislation will get support and ensure that all looholes have been addressed and that there is sufficient time to scutinise and debate the legislation.Too much bills at once can result in passing legislation that is flawed.It can also result in some bills being bdropped due to lack of paliamentary time.We can argue until the cows come home on that one but for me the real question is:
"Does the legislation passed make a positive contribution to the lives of socirty in Scotland."

Willie-322
Alec Salmond did not wish to lead a minority government.His preferred option was coalition government with the Liberals and Greens.The Liberals refused his offer.The wisdom of their decision not to serve in a government that would gaurantee the implementation of most of their manifesto has been widely discussed and I don't want to go into that again.The Liberals can discuss that one with the electorate next time around.

As Doh has explained,the tartan bill is a private members bill from a Conservative MSP.The SNP's priorities are in education,policing,health,student debt and many other issues relevant to people living in Scotland.
Dr Bill Reynolds

369. sorry jack, house prices in the north-east of England are riseing faster than any where else in England, the average wage is 30,000 pa.

Here's what 'New Labour' stands for:

http://news.scotsman.com/politics.cfm?id=1413662007

124

Scotland cannot be and does not seek to be independent without the approval of the people. We seek independence which has the backing and recognition of United Nations ,the international community,whatever you want to call it.Hence a referendum !The SNP wants this,its LOndon who would denyus this right !

When Salmond says we must be independent he expresses a view and desire and an aspiration.
AT NO TIME IN HISTORY has a single suggestion of a UDI come out of the SNP.

Clearly you are mischief making since I refuse to believe you are that stupid.

369. Honest Jock, Leith

Easy, don't sell off social housing(cooncil houses) for less than their market value!

Any houses bought by tenents should have that money channelled straight back into the council housing stock either to maintain and upgrade existing stocks or to replace old stock.

That will put a brake on house price inflation as ex council tenants will no longer be making big profits at the expense of the remaining tenants.

It will also encourage councils to look after their tenants instead of worrying that any money spent will just be going straight into someone else's pocket.

Right to buy is well and good, but not at less than the house cost to build as has happened so often in the past.

So, AM2, refers to me in #220 as a "very dangerous man".

Oooooooohhh.

A ludicrous comment, but nevertheless one I find very offensive, given that I am exceptionally safe.

So, I goes and reports this post as unsuitable, which it is, not once but THREE times, and, guess what?

NOTHING. HAPPENS.

So, people, what does this say about our honourable friend, AM2?

Are we in a situation here where there's one rule for one and another rule for others?

Is this the unionist approach to handling perfectly irrelevant online debates?

Answers on a postcard, please.

PS: Someone do me the great favour of reporting post #220, for which I'd be most grateful. It's a spiteful little remark which deserves to be removed. I appear to be in the Scotsman's bad boy category and they're refusing to respond to my request, which is pretty pathetic really, given the offensive nature of the post. Calling someone "very dangerous" is way over the top, way underhand and perfectly unacceptable.

#71 - since you live in Oz don't try and lecture people who live in the UK - who is and who isn't 'foreign' - to each other!
I would say there is a much bigger cultural divide between people living in Melbourne/Sydney and the North Queensland 'Outback', than say between Inverness and Somerset.
Maybe we could ask the native Aborigine inhabitiants, who have been in Oz for over 40,000 years if they have much in common with yourself?

#381 No yet old boy give me a chance. Although I did spot a nice wee terraced place in Lanjaron complete with pool...

#379 Miss H, I for one welcome the introduction of the tartan covered Scottish groat. If we could also re-animate the corpses of Fran and Anna and have them present the Scottish Six, I'd be as happy as a unionist on July the 12th.

#379

Independence is about corporation tax and the deployment of soldiers?

Our nearest neighbor er em, isn't that England? Aren't they doing rather well (because they are bleeding us dry, according to many of your supporters)

You don't have a passport, so you don't have seperate nationality.What do you need an army for exactly? To defend the corporation tax asesors?

It's all 'wha'ss like us'. But you cant pick and choose the bits of independence you like.

289 Livilion

A warcrime's a warcrime mate. But according to you if it's in the name of the Saltire then that's OK.

It's staggering in this day and age that any right minded person could possibly bare a grudge for historical events that happened centuries ago, especially to the point where they're willing to throw away Scotlands current prosperity in order to satisfy their own narrow anti-english agenda.

351

What would be ironic is for a Unionist poster to post a question or opinion that hasnt already been answered and dealt with on several threads in the past. This pish about a new currency has been done to death over dozens of threads already are you new to these blogs or what?
Maybe you can be the very first unionist poster to the Scotsman forum to actually tell us what these benefits to Scotland from the Union actually are?

Can I have £2000 to buy my house?

And a few quid for the kids bus fare?

And a few extra polis to protect us fae the neds?

And my student loans cancelled?

Thought not.

Ever had the feeling youve been cheated.

378,Norbert. well done sir,I am also feeling chipper,having won 500 lovely pounds on my local charity draw!

374. howyoudoingboy;
Sorry mate the gingers to date are not protected.

Have you seen or heard of moves to have the Jimmywig banned from sale on the grounds of racism?

Put on a National Front or UDA tee shirt(Union Jack) and take a stroll down Duke Street Glasgow of an evening and I guarantee it will not be SNP slogans that the folk chasing you will be shouting.

390

Pick and choose the independence we like?
But is it alright to pick and choose the Unionist bits we like is that how it works? and if not why not isnt it supposed to be a Union of equals? cant we choose which bits of the Union we like and which bits we dont within the spirit of an equal union of partners?

Nicol Stephen says plans to dual the A9 are now just a vague possibility. Err... did they not start work on that about two months ago...?

Opposition politicians wondering where all the "big pledges" would do well to look for them in Edinburgh, along the proposed Tram route. Yes, you'll find £600 million reasons why the SNP have had to curtail some of their more ambitious manifesto pledges there. Unless there's going to be elections every year now, I believe the SNP have 4 years to make good on their promises, and you can bet they'll give it a damn good try despite their hands being tied by the cynical opposition MSPs.

Could we not, just for once, have a rest from the snide remarks and perhaps have opposition MSPs THINK before speaking nonsense?

390

You can have the extra polis, you will get more help to buy your own home if you are a first time buyer, you will not have to pay the graduate endowment if you are a student and you will get a grant instead of a loan. If you are a graduate you will probably not have your annual repayments asssumed by the Scottish government because Labour, the Lib Dems and the Tories do not want you to. If you feel cheated you should take it up with them and I hope you do.

#393

You can register a tartan.

You can enjoy being "the best country" NOT the just the best wee country

You can have a £100,000 sign that sais government, not executive which means branch of government.

You can have a white paper on independence that has no chance whatsoever.

Only a Scotland hater traitor to Wallace would not see the value in this.

391

In other words you believe that Scotland cannot prosper unless we are governed by Westminster.

Why?

Are we too thick or what?

400

The same survey found that Conservatives are more Islamaphobic than supporters of other parties.

You are a Consevative.

You have made attacks on Muslim SNP members because they are Muslim.

Are you Islamaphobic?

373. I have reported you to the scotsman, pretending to be someone you are not is a criminal act, they are checking your details. you may have issues with me, but stealing my identity is a criminal offence

353 Fairfax

The Poles lost 6 million people in the 2nd WW.

-269 Morris.

What is wrong with "Independence in the EEA" as opposed to "Independence in the EU"? The EEA is the part which gives us free trade/freedom of settlement and is also the bit which Norway and Iceland are members of. The EU is a political centralising project. OK if you agree politically with all their directives, but hardly independent or democratic?

- 334 Miss H

Don't think you have answered my question? By infrastructure I meant the rules and the bills, not just the wires. Do you expect England and Wales consumers to go on subsidising Scottish renewables or not post independence? If not, do you agree that there will be significant increased charges for electricity in Scotland? Note the integration of the two systems only took place 5 years ago - i.e. post devolution, to enable this subsidy system for renewables to be put in place.

401

Yes.

It's Police not polis. Are you the same kind of joker that talks about the Hootsmon. Oh the hilarity! LOL :)

miss H. care to answer my question @ 366.

What time do the nursery's finish??? seems to be about the same time all the trolls start appearing on here

391. Boswall
I threw away my own economic prosperity when I married into an English family, that's how anti-English I am.

As for war crimes in the 13th century, where do you want to start?

The Geneva Convention and Switzerland had not been heard of yet.

Crusader Armies were busy looking for hidden treasure in the entrails of moslems in the Holy Land.

Edward II is reputed to have died with a red hot poker rammed up his jacksie, by his own people.

The entire population of Berwick, men, women, children and animals were slaughtered, and left to rot, unburied by Longshank's orders.

Lanark was the scene of brutal murders by English forces trying to draw Wallace into a baited trap.

War crimes? The past is a foreign country, they do things differently there.

As for the constitutional position, that is about the here and now, today.

The Union of 300 years ago has outlived any usefulness it may once have had and it is now time for this country to make its own way amongst the world's community of nations as a full and equal contributor in our own right.

AM2 - Get out of the gutter. To correlate racism and nationalism is at best, a lazy piece of analysis. You do not define 'nationalism' in this context, for example. But I guess that I miss the point, your motivation isn't a critical analysis, it is simply mud slinging. All of this is a bit rich considering that you are quite happy to quote from anti-Islamic racists when it suits your argument.

Incidentally AM2 I only found 2 references to parcel o rogues on the SNP website (and none to traitor's gold so it looks as though you are just making things up here).

One was in Alex Salmond's speech to a save the regiments rally where he said Scottish Labour MPs are nothing more than cannon fodder for Blair and Hoon and are totally unfit to represent Scotland.

"On each and every occasion that an issue comes to the crunch they back their government and vote against Scotland.

They are Scotland's "parcel o' rogues" and it is time to send them packing.'

http://www.snp.org/pressreleases/2004/news.2710/

So standing up for Scottish regiments is anti English is it? You think the English people were desperate to see Scottish regiments scrapped? Or perhaps you think that Geoff Hoon is NOT a rogue. You will be unique if that is the case.

The second instance was in response to the launch of the Tory European election campaign in 2004 in Arbroath, with a 'new' declaration of Arbroath. Here is the story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3506285.stm

Here is the SNP response

http://www.snp.org/pressreleases/2004/news.1885/

Even you must be able to understand the total absurdity of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party trying to portray themselves as Scottish freedom fighters. It was a massive miscalculation. And more.

If you are a unionist you should not quote the Declaration of Arbroath, don't even refer to it. It is deeply offensive to those who believe in Scottish sovereignty. I think Alex Salmond was quite temperate in calling them a parcel o rogues for that piece of nonsense.

#410 Mona

More than one person has already answered your question @ #366....either you didnt notice or your choosing to pick on Miss H....which one is it??

Policy "lite"??

A good description.

Just when are they going to fulfill their promise to scrap the trams in Edinburgh?

266
You are correct Doh.

STV in all elections would strengthen public accountability and democratic representation,and it will not have escaped your notice that both SNP and Liberal who stand to gain from the termination of an unjust system favour change, while Tweedledum and Tweedledee both oppose it .However the Tory party in Scotland only needs one more disaster and they will have no choice but come on board ,or disappear up their own exhaust !

We can agree sometimes obviously !

400

The SNP uses language like “parcel o' rogues”, “traitor's gold” etc (search their website) which quietly reinforces the notion that Scottish unionists are traitors to Scotland, and by implication somehow “in league with” another country – namely, England.

And English politicians from all parties say things like England when they mean Britain and English when they mean British and Scottish when we get kicked out of the World cup or European cup.
And who else would Scottish Unionists be in league with if not England

The holding of rallies at Bannockburn, the virtual canonisation of William Wallace, and more besides. When distilled into their basest essence in the pub or on the football terrace such language and focus all too often mutates into something overtly racist. It's arguably unavoidable.

Like the Tories in Brighton to the tune of Land of hope and Glory and Labour in Blackpool to the Red flag. So here we have all of the so called UK political parties traditionally having their rallies in ENGLAND for decades and nothing is said so whats yer point if you actually have one?

366

I didn't actually read the question.

The SNP government will be able to make some difference to the lives of most people. If they can get support for policies like local income tax they can make a big difference. If the Scottish Parliament gains the same powers that other countries' parliaments have they will be able to make an even bigger difference.

# 420

I don't think you are beging fair. You sound like the type of sensitive soul who it would be impossible to please.

Britain wins and loses medals and events. Individual athletes have their own English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish identities.

If you applied these descriptors univerally as British, you would only whine like a wet drip that they didn't recognise Scottishness.

Maybe your beloved SNP could pass a law on it? Sounds like the worthwhile cause the SNP would do. Irrelevant, cosmetic, superficial, pointless and best of all goes down well with the media and the teenage brat mentality of Scottish nationalism.

421

Right. You count comments posted by members of the public on Maggie Ewing's memorial page as representing the SNP.

Here is the comment for those who are interested:

I first met Margaret when she had been adopted as our candidate in Dunbartonshire East, when Donald gleefully told me that she would soon be an MP. I have always been struck by her amazing practicality in her politics. She was always at her very best when trying to put things right for some poor punter who was being ground down by the idiotic bureacracy that passes for government in this country. She used humour as her strongest weapon, allied to that innate sense of justice that informed both her love of country and its people. She has been given the great grace to see our first substantial steps towards independence, and was one of the key figures in keeping us out of anything "Conventional!" She joins the long and honoured list of those who have resisted the traitor's gold and fought honourably for us to rejoin the community of nations. May she now find communion with all our patriots and hae the kind o' ceilidh she enjoyed so much. Our best memory to Maggie and them all is to deliver that freedom that is worth every sacrifice.

Jim Lugton

If you perceive that as anti English that says more about you than about the SNP and certainly more than it does about Maggie Ewing.

HOOPS. when did you set yourself up as gaurdian angel, or can't miss H speak for her/his self!

421. AM2, Glasgow
Wrong link there AM2,
I got way down the page to members of the public condolences and saw no mention of a parcel o'rogues or traitors gold.
Perhaps you might suggest where we should be looking?

#352

I'm not entirely sure of your point. There are economically deprived areas throughout the UK and there will be no matter how you split things up.

There is a far greater perception in some English regions that they are getting a raw deal in comparison to Scotland and this conceivably could translate into a "lets get shot of Scotland" vote if there is an economic downturn.

In exactly the same way as the US is more important to the UK than than the other way round, England is more important to Scotland than Scotland is to England.

Alec Salmond risks being the little boy having a tantrum on the floor of Tescos whose mother just walks off and leaves him.

#423

No, I'm not.

See, you wouldn't heap the same negative connotations on Nelson as you would on Wallace, notwithtanding the fact that they both played a very similar role in defending the soverignty of their countries.

The one you identify as being some kind of racist icon while the other, I have no doubt, you would see as a man performing his duty with exceptional courage and service to the nation.

But whatever. You start to dig yourself into so much holes when you raise the racist issue that even I must stop for fear of causing you too much embarrassment.

Mona

I can be whatever i please on here whether you like it or not....sorry....but thats the way it is

Mona

Actually i think Miss H is doing the right thing and ignoring you which is what we should all be doing anyway

****************TROLLALERT****************

meths. please put your sensible head on, too much sarcasm gets tedios after a while!

Looking at the upper echelon of the scottish political class yesterday, I was never more convinced that they are indeed 'third rate numpty ex cooncillors'.

Most of them are entirely unknown to their electorate and have achieved nothing outside(or indeed inside) politics. The level and quality of debate was woeful.

Furthermore, many are only in parliament because they are areselickers (lickspittels in some former instances), or because we have a voting system many people didnt understand and counts which didnt!

maybe miss H hasnae got an answer!

As an SNP supporter on most issues, I have to say I cant help feeling a little underwhelmed by what was announced.

I realise there are realities of minority government, continuing to get bills passed, taling the wind out of the opositions sails by essentially not giving bills they can easily reject etc. However I was hoping for at least one or two controvesial topics in this session to see how the unionists jump.

This is leaving a lot of the harder stuff for later and will mean the opposition is likely to try and block many of the future bills.

I guess Salmond is trying to continue to build up public confidense. Its a long game afterall.

In terms of bills. After 4 years, lets just look back and see what the SNP tried to pass and what they actually managed to pass as a minority. Then, compare that with What Labour/LD achieved as a majority. I have no doubt the SNP will leave the previous bunch looking like a bunch of incompetents.

Please! lets look to the future Scotland and not the past scotland,nothing can be done about the past but somthing can be done about the future. 300 years of unionisim is more than enough as for wanting more out of the SNP give them all the aurthority they need at the next election, that is the answer. Re imigrants I realy dont care just so long as they vote and show some interest in Scotland I dont even care who they vote for as long as they vote.!!

#344 - The vast majority were dirt poor and were not being shafted as they had no stake in Darien or in the way Scotland was being governed.

Miss H .... You go gal !!!!

Keep up the good work :>)

Really have to go see about that moaning sound i keep hearing