"The Orthodox church also nurses somewhat of a grudge for the lack of serious intervention by Rome in 1453..."
And I thought my wife was bad for bringing up the past.
This all seems so far removed from the ideas of that Jewish carpenter two millenia ago.

Religious mythology is the curse of humanity.

Didn't the so called 'Church of Scotland' steal St Giles in Edinburgh and Glasgow Cathedral ,to name 2 of hundreds ,from the Catholics in Scotland?
Give them back.

Bit boring on the newsfont today-who is up for a religious argement-always guaranteed to cause a stir.

I lived in Romania some while back. The overwhelming majority of ethnic Romanians are the most fervent followers of the Orthodox faith. What the writer of the article fails to mention is that most RC's are ethnic Hungarians -as incidently are most Transylvanian Lutherans. Up until now all faiths have co-existed in relative harmony unlike elsewhere in the region-eg Yugoslavia.

To address the issue of the great schism of 1054 and correct the erroneous impression that this was a mutual split between East and West it was in fact the less influential Roman Patriarch who spat the dummy and broke away from what was at that time the larger Eastern Church- because the other Patriarchs refused to acknowledge his supposed superiority. Something to bear in mind when the Pope decries the Reformation for spliiting God's house!

In fact the early Christian Church had five Patriarchs -all of whom were ranked equally. Of the five -Antioch, Alexandria, Rome-ranked senior in age but not in authority, Constantinople and Jerusalem- four were in Eastern territory-hence to this day the Orthodox Catholic Church considers itself to have the stronger claim to be considered "The true Church"-even Ratzinger seems to awkwardly acknowledge this by calling them "sisters".

However as the article mentions Rome and the wesern catholic church subsequently took revenge by sacking Constantinople in 1204. Sadly of the original Patriarchial seats three are now in muslim countries-Turkey and Egypt and Jerusalem is another story. Further evidence of the diabolical plotting and skull(cap)duggery that the RC Church has indulged in down the ages from its very inception and which we also witness in our own backyard through our vile apartheid school system.

Now they are trying to stir sectarian strife in Romania-Plus c'est la meme chose, plus ça change!

And christians still claim that religion is not the root cause of the majority of human conflict. They're even fighting amongst themselves! You believe in the same god and holy book for christ's sake!
Religion is an insult to human intelligence. Notice that nowadays christianity is booming in the developing world, where education and literacy level are low, whilst rapidly dying out in the more developed parts of the globe where science and education are strong. Except America worrying.

sponge = do you know the kids game top trumps?

You come up with a so called religious rooted conflict - and I'm certain that it can be topped by one which isn't.

As Karl Marx famously said, "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people."

And we don't get shot of it, it'll be (as it has been) the death of the masses too!

I just invented a global religion where everyone is a member whether they like or not. This religion has no name and there aren't any rules.

Transylvania was part of the Hungarian Kingdom from the 9th century until 1920, when it was given to Romania as part of the post-WWI settlement. Transylvanian Catholics are ethnic Hungarians who also demand cultural and some measure of political autonomy. This is firmly opposed by the Romanians who fear that political autonomy will eventually lead to "balkanisation" and an independent Hungarian mini-state in the heart of Transylvania.

Religion is an important element of ethnic Hungarian identity (they are Catholics and Calvinists - the Lutherans mentioned by Encephalon in comment no. 4 are Saxons, that is, ethnic Germans).

The Romanian argument against the return of Catholic properties is that the number of Catholics has dropped significantly since 1920. Hungarians argue that the weakness of their community is the result of 80 years of forced assimilation and repressive social engineering. They also argue that the Romanian state provides massive subsidies to the Orthodox Church to expand in traditionally Hungarian territories - e. g. churches are built in Hungarian villages where there is just a single ethnic Romanian family.

It should also be noted that Hungarians are not always supported by the Vatican - the Church favors good relations with the Romanian government for the sake of preserving the positions of Greek Catholicsm.

This is a political issue that has little to do with religion itself. Sadly the author of this article failed to do his homework.

So ... what's the people of Transylvania's stake in this argument?

it just proves the old saying RELIGION is thre root of all evil..

Cue vitriolic rants from non-religionists...

Is there an Unorthodox Church? It could be fun - singing Black Sabbath songs instead of hymns and worshipping a woman who is most certainly NOT a virgin - Angelina Jolie!!!!!

#3, I think you will find that the people of Scotland converted from Catholicism to Protestantism and the churches changed with them, nobody 'stole' anything.

These churches should belong to the people that attend them, if the people that attend the churches are orthodox then they should remain orthodox. If there are a majority of people in the area or parish that claim the church are catholic then they should be passed over to the Catholics. Better still, take the churches into the possession of the state and rent them out to both of them at an hourly rate :)

You'd think given the billions of assets that the Catholic church have in their coffers they might be able to stretch to building a few more churches.

More religious conflict eh, what a surprise. Its time these fairy stories were relegated to the level they should be at.
Nice one BW. Another "Bite" at homour :)

Why don't they do what we do in Scotland. Turn their churches into pubs. Then all christians can drink together as equals. You'll find that cheap beer is actually the opiate of the masses.

12 paulr

The correct quote from the first Book of Timothy is:

"the LOVE (my emphasis) of money is the root of all evil". Most people leave out the word "love" and therefore get it all wrong.

I think you have got your quotes mixed-up or something or TRYING to be original.

Benny Benedict will probably proclaim one of his "Bulls" to get those churches back because we all know that the Roman Catholic church is in the lucrative business of land speculation and real estate.

My name is Houssine al-Najaar,i'm muslim from France,ethnologyst and linguist,specialised in Celtics societies i'm also a great world specialist in religion.For me they are not primitif and adnanced religion.All religion repose in a believ .The ancient celts or boudhist believ in the reincarnation of the soul.In boudism the soul have seven life.
What a religion?The answer of this question is not easy.For exempls the protestant don't believ in a power of sants ,the catholic believ in the power of sant.
They are not a great difference between idelogies like Gay movment,Marxisme,liberalisme and religion the all ideologies was an abstract ideas about something whit followers and adepts as the femism movment.What i don't understand is the Christ in Catolic religion was poor and he life amongst the poor.And why in our world we see all fortuns of the world was between the hands of the Vatican?I believ they are an opposition between the behaviour of the Christ and the practice of this religion.In Islam the Crhist was not the son of the God Allah but he have a holly spirit and he is his messager for the humanity.
What i can call as a specialist of religion,first they are a diversities in religion they are not one definition for religion,the practice of the religion was differents from one civilisation to others,in the second i believ it's necessarly for poepls who life in not devloped stats like Tchetchenia,Azerbaijan,Hungaria...to will be tolerant in practice of religion.
It's very hard to speak about a religious behaviour in this exampls we see a women want to celebrat a catholic church in an orthodox area,what we can do in this case?
Imagine a muslim in Scotland he want banish alcoohol from the all pub because alcoohol is "Haram"? or this muslim want to impose the hidjab for all Scottish women?
I repeat my self they are not great difference the precedents exempls and the gay movment who want to impose a mariage between a man and

I think I preferred Timothy in his previous incarnation a pretendy intellectual and cordon bleu chef rather than the rather boorish argumentative mantle he has assumed of late.

My DEAR Dougie from Bathwater

I AM a cordon bleu chef and I DO have advanced scholastic credentials.

I can be just as argumentative as you are, Dougie Baby.

Blessed are the peacemakers

#24, Is it not blessed are the cheesemakers?

Guga II,

Ad hominem, you have provided nothing to this discussion.

Encephalon,

Nice attempt at reordering history. Sadly you're incorrect. Besides your ad hominems, the Catholics didn't exact 'revenge'. It was the treachery of Venice combined with their opportunism that blackmailed the Crusaders to pay a debt by sacking Constantinople. Which was Venice's retaliation for the Byzantine capital for arresting Venician citizens and confiscating their property through the treachery of the Genoese. That's the most I will say since explaining history to a malcontent would take up an entire book.

Scottishsponger & PaulR,

More people died in the 20th century due to liberal ideas (idealisms) such as socialism, nazisim, and communism than the previous 19 centuries combined.

And since the 'developed' world seems to be on the cusp of liberal elitism, it's interesting to note that you all are contracepting and aborting your nations to demographic oblivian.

Boy Wonder,

You had your shot in the 20th century. Marxist systems such as communism created 20 million dead at the hands of Stalin in the Ukrain, 40 million dead at the hands of Mao in China, 2 million dead by Pol Pot in Cambodia, 1 million dead by Ho Chi Minh in Vietname, 36 million dead children in America by liberalism (abortion), and liberals (nazis) and gays (brownshirts/SS) nearly succeeded in eliminating the Jews.

I think 'we' in the West understand quite clearly that we won't allow that to happen once more.

Everyone else,

It's amazing how 'intolerant' and 'vicious' the liberals are when it comes to topics of religion, but they all fall all over themselves when trying to prove how 'tolerant' they are of others.

Hypocrisy et al.

"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
--George Santayana

Only another graphic example by the display off the freedom and democracy being spread by the two most bellicose nations on Earth, the USA and UK! Their military forces are killing and bombing many innocent people almost everywhere on the planet's five continents with near impunity.

#2 - militant atheism is the curse of humanity (as the victims of National Socialism and Soviet Socialism would testify, if they weren't moulding in their graves)

20 Mr. Al-Najaar, your criticism of Catholics is ridiculous. To the best of my knowledge Catholicism, Buddhism, Hinduism and Christianity all aspire to peace, goodwill, charity and spiritual growth though their membership often falls short of the ideal.

Muslims, on the other hand, according to the Koran are exhorted to murder and wage war on infidels. These are literal instructions from your prophet and they're followed to the letter by your more extreme Islamists. Your criticism of another religion prompts me to respond to your comment. You speak of tolerance for religion in Chechnya, while you belong to the most intolerant of all religions. Your murderous brethren butchered over 334 innocent hostages in the name of Islam at the Beslan school massacre.

Your religion is so intolerant that people who draw pictures of Muhammed are threatened with death and editorial writers live in fear for their lives. A Danish film maker was murdered in cold blood for documenting violence against women in Islam (which, by the way, is approved of in the Koran). It is because of these facts and more that I say you have NO moral high ground when criticizing anyone of ANY faith and your talk of tolerance will only be believed when Muslims become tolerant themselves.

I'm sorry Dox but my english was bad for this reason i can exprim my self carrefuly.In my comment 20 i call the all religions is equal for me as ethnologyst and linguist.When an african believ they are a spirit in natur this a part of his imagination and we can't denies him his believ.
The Catholism was a religion like others religion for me like ethnologist,personaly i believ the rationality and irationality was a part of our mind and our life.
What i see like a medieval period when a catholic billionairs was dead he give all his money for the Vatican and the Pap or if your prefer for the catholic church in the sams time many poepls suffring of povrety,or prostityt him self for money,did you believ this is the teaching of the Christ.Personaly i don-t believ this is the religion of your Christ,a man who life in poverty and dead in poverty.I see lot of catholic churchmen life in povrty and in the sam time billions of catholic across the world send billions each years to the Vatican for the peace of his soul.

Dox,i'm going to the Irish center in Paris assisting a piece of theatre titled the "making history"you can writte me directky in my box at needjar@yahoo.fr

No.26 Tito. Several points well made, except for one which confuses me: the one stating "...gays brownshirts/nazi nearly succeeded in eliminating the Jews." The Nazis sought to exterminate gays as well as Jews, so your comment here is off balance.

No. 28 Dox: To be fair to the guy in No.20 he's not so much criticising Catholicism or Christianity in general, as not quite understanding it - in spite of claiming to be a 'great world specialst' (his English is poor, so perhaps he isn't so arrogant as this appears). In Sura 4:89 the Qur'an does talk about killing non-believers, but this is to be understood in the context of the time; remember that the Old Testament is merciless towards idolators. Unfortunately, although Jews and Christians have moved on from such narrow thinking, some Muslims have not, resulting in the abominations of today.
I think that blasting Islam as a whole is unfounded, as it has some beautiful teachings, though (in my mind) none as beauitful as those offered by Christ.

32# well said.
29# a bit more christian towards others instead of jumping in at the deep end.

Thge trouble in Romania has been going on for centuries has it not. Hence all the myths about Dracula scare stories made up by followers of one faith to demonise the followers of another.
So history repeats it'slef and always will under a multi religious based bigotry supported by churches as a way to keep their flock from leaving once they see through the fog of deception.
Houssine is correct churches in the past and present live a pamperred life for some whilst their flock endures extreme hardship poverty and aids.

Albanman,

Thank you for your kind comments.

The Hitler's brownshirts, or SA, were dominated by gays, in fact Ernst Roehm was an open homosexual. His ranks were dominated by those that were homosexuals. Another point in fact is that homosexuality was accepted in the post-World War I era in the the Weimer Republic.

When you mentioned that homosexuals were to be exterminated as Jews you are parroting 'made up' history by the liberals. There were some homsosexuals that were executed, but that was because of their political views, not because they were involved in homosexuality.

It's a sad state of affairs when the militant gay lobby wants to claim victimhood by associating themselves with the Jews during the holocaust. This is disingenuous at best, a complete hypocrisy to say the least.

By using this rational you could say that straight people were persecuted during WWII and were targeted by the Nazi's. Sounds ridiculous? It certainly is, and the same goes for 'homosexual persecution'.

The opposite is true. Ernst Roehm, an open and avowed homosexual, wanted to have complete socialism implemented throughout Germany. He wanted to eliminate the Catholic and Lutheran Churches since both viewed upon homosexuality as a disorder.

The Weimer Republic was a very perveted and sick time during Germany. Which spawned many evil and sinister deviant ideas such as Nazism and the promotion of homosexuality.

The fact that Hitler executed Roehm was due to an internal struggle for power. Hitler viewed the brownshirts as an adversary whose usefullness had expired.

Albanman,

The 'Old Testament is merciless toward idolaters' is a loaded inferrance of violence. The Jews and Christians have never deviated from Old Testament scripture. Well at least Orthodox Jews and Catholics.

Nowhere in the Bible is there any reference or inference of violence towards others, with the exception being the 'description of violence' towards others. But even in this case it describes battle scenes, it doesn't implicitly or explicitly say 'God commanded death' or 'God wanted war waged'.

Albanman,

Clarification.

The Nazi's had laws against homosexuality, but Hitler didn't dispose of Rohm for this, rather again, for power. The SA and many other socialist organizations were reft with homosexuals. This is not to say that these organizations were wrong or evil. Though the SA's end goals included socialism with the elimination of religion.

Anyways, we digress from the point of the article.

http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/online/hsx/

It did not fit in with the concept of the Ayrian superman mate...you are having a laugh aintcha?...

There is nothing evil or sinister about homosexuality, but your attempts at rewriting history is most definitly evil and sinister...You are just yet another religiously brainwashed individual who cannot see for the smoke from the big fire.....how dare you mock the deaths of these people who died or were persecuted at the hands of the nazis...to suit your warped sense of justness...shame shame shame on you..

Oh wait...it was all a big liberal conspiracy....give yourself a slap with your bible...might knock some sense into you...

Horrible Cankers esq,

Homosexual propaganda. Do your research on history. I can point to dozens of websites that prove that the earth is flat, but it doesn't make it so.

Nice try flat-earther.

http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/online/hsx/

This might help explain the situation re Ernst Rohm

http://www.infopt.demon.co.uk/nazi.htm

Sorry, wrong one, try this one..

Yes of course, oh believer in fairy tales...it would have to be propoganda...which is exactly what you are spouting here...hate filled Catholic crap...and pleeease do not even begin to tell me that you dont hate homosexuals cos I aint interested....

Do your own research on history, you might be surprised at what you come up with...that is as long as you can leave out the Catholic 'all homosexuals are evil and must repent or they'l fry' bias...you might have to read a few books that are not coming from a religious standpoint...

Canky, that's all very well, but who would you worship in an Unorthodox Church?

Horrible Cankers esq,

Interesting how you attribute quotes to me that I never mentioned in relation to homosexuality.

A bit touchy aren't you.

Try to double the dosage of Kool-Ade and see what happens.

All the history I read from are from secular sources. That and I got my public education to boot.

Why IS Tito the Catholic going on and on and on about homosexuality?

Does his particular hang-up(s) have to do with his being closeted or something?

And we must remember that he is from Texas - home state of the stupidest president EVER.

It would seem that stupidity and narrow-mindedness and bigotry are alive and well all over Texas and in 99% of the Texas population, especially in Houston.

TimW1234,

Thanks for the ad hominem attack.

I guess you have nothing to contribute to the Romanian Orthodox-Catholic article.

Tito is scary, he's a bad man!!!

HC,

I know, you're an earthy sort!;D

Getting back to the Jesus fella, wasn't he homosexual, knocking about with all his male pals and doing tricks.....so to speak?!!!

AJ of Fife,

How did you know I am a bald man?

Was it bad man?

So I take it you are a member of the English UnOrthodox Church?

Religeous differences a side, whats the big deal
surely the preist could have indulged the old man and rung the bell and give the man some peice of mind.

30 I must have misunderstood you. It is I who owe you an apology.

32 Thank you for pointing that out. I sometimes have a way of bashing people about without thinking their statements through properly. His English is broken so perhaps I misunderstood.

33 I did sort of go off on the guy. Acting more Christian (meaning turn the other cheek and do unto others) is something I should aspire for. Although I am not a religious person by any sectarian definitions the teachings of all the great religions each have valid and important lessons.

Dox,now i'm in my house i have commited one errors the teatre piece is not today but tomorow
www.centreculturelirlandais.com/modules/movies/scenes/hom...
and i will be in the Centre Iralandais tomorow .
I can't writte more about this topics but i don't understand why poepls write about homosexuality and nazisme in this area.
Dox,i'm ethnologyst,linguist and a great world specialist in religion and mythology i'm sorry but i'm not spite.
Like specialist i assure you i respect all religion or systems of croyance(wisdom or believ) the problem is when you have a totalitair state like Nazism ,communism or other democratic stat who kills innocent poepls.I don't understand why you don't give me answer about my interrogation of the hundreds of billions £ of the catholic .
The Christ in Islam religion is absolutly no God or his son,the Christ "Issa' in muslim tradition is like Moise "Moussa",Joseph "Youssouf"...I can devlop this point of wiev the Christ was born in Palestine his mother his Mary "Merriém" and in muslim tradition he don't have a father but a soufle of the God Allah.The Vatican in my opinion is a heritage of pagan divinities of Rome and Greek pantheon for this reason she is very far for the enseignement of the Christ the latin language is not the tong of the Christ.Good night tomorow i read your comments.

www.centreirlandais.com/modules/movie/scenes/home/index.p...

In response to Mr. Houssine al-Najaar,
If I understand your ealier commentary correctly(i.e. #20), then you believe that it is wrong for a minority to dictate the behaviour or actions of the majority (e.g it is not right for a muslim living in scotland to demand that pubs refrain from serving alcoholic beverages) as far as religious affairs are concerned. I agree, after all, the overwhelming majority of christians in Romania are Orthodox. Ethnic Romanian Catholics are mainly those whose ancestors were forcefully proslytized during the 18th century to a "Greek Catholic" church (similar to the fate of many Ukranians at the hands of the Polish Lithuanian commonwealth) and represent a minority. No internet was around for the poor Romanians to protest when the Turks came and ravaged their churches, or kidnapped their children and trained them to fight as elite warriors (returning to kill their own people). Their was no online debate concerning the intentions of their "liberators" from Austria. No, let bygones be bygones. All of modern day Turkey was once Greek, and most of her Mosques were once Orthodox churches. Half of the shrines of Catholic Europe are now Protestant. Restitution is impossible- only reconciliation and mutual respect can reduce the risk of coflict between men of different faiths.

Introducing Tito the catholic-yet another brainwashed religious nutter from the good ol US of A -this one seems to have a fixation with homosexuality-is that ad hominem-enough for you?

If you seriously want to discuss movements that killed millions of innocent people or even sodomites then I suggest you look no further than your own RC sect!

Something about people in glass houses throwing stones ring any bells?

7.

"As Karl Marx famously said, 'Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people.'"

As a wise Frenchman said more recently, "Marxism is the opiate of the intellectuals."

#57 Mlekovic,

Excellent point on restitution. Depending on how far back the two debating parties want to go back would determine that.

If that were the case, the majority of the mosques in the middle east would have to be returned to the Catholic Church and the (Greek) Orthodox.

#58 Encephalon,

See #26. I'll also pray for you. May God bless you.

Tito the Catholic

We DO NOT need your self-serving and closeted prayers from one who has brokemn probably EVERY stricture of the Church of Rome and its representative, Betty Benedict XVVI, the latest WHORE OF ROME!

The religion is a scientific evidence of the existence of the man and woman,the phanatism of a minority to combating any where in the world the pacific followers of religion is like the practice of Kmer rouge.My function like scientific and honest man is to help you for to see better what is the religion in reality.Some times i listen in bbc4 a phanatic preacher who anouce the end of the world is near and he see war,crims corruption anywhere in the world.All this was not religion.
My name is Houssine al-Najaar,i'm born 42 years ago my father was muslim from Algeria(now he is dead) my mother also is from north africa.But my filiation was from Beit Lahm like the Christ,in North Africa the ancient population was berbers tribs converted to Islams by arabs invasion in the 7th centuries.The Christ in Kuran is a prophet of the God Allah,his adoptif father was Joseph(please can anyone call me what is the equivalent of Joseph in english thong?) and his mother is Mary Meriem ,the adoptif father of the Christ was "charpentier"(charpentier is in french i don't know in english his equivalent) and in arabs langage the charpentier is al-Najaar and then when the Christ was a young boy and he play games of children near the house of his adoptif father the all boy call him "Issa Ibn al-Najaar" in english Jesu the son of the charpenter,in arabic langage Al- of al-Najaar is the determinant like "the" in english.The scene of the Christ who play near house of his father are reproduced in the legend of the king Arthur when a children play whit others camarad and this children was a propheet and have interpreted what is the signification of the combat of the two dragons i believ one whitte and the other red was a combat between Pendragon and Uperdragon.
We can compar this combat by humanity combat you are in Chicago and you mind was whit your orthodox parents in Roumania,Russia,the instability is a permanent sign of the mens who produce the war ar

65. Horrible Cankers esq, The Cyber Shebeen

Keep your offensive harassing comments to yourself. If you are unable to stay on topic please go play on Djookers site.

69. Horrible Cankers esq, The Cyber Shebeen

&

68. BW's Gay Brother

You both need to grow up, especially Horrible Cankers.

Actually it's not so interesting. Old stupid villagers have nothing better to do than to start fights over stupid matters. There is a connection between ethnic and religious groups, as hungarians are rarely orthodox, but it will die out in a few decades as people grow old and out of religion-induced-stupidity. However Transylvania always was and will be Romanian-Dacian, not Hungarian - however much hungarian NGOs strive to shift and transform the culture.

#72 Horrible Cankers esq,

America being the most educated planet on the earth, for that matter history, is also one of the most ferventaly Christian as well.

Kind of blows lorrie-sized holes in your liberal theory there eh?

(truck-sized if you're not really from the 'islands')