looks bloody horrible!

I wish the ship and the yard success for many years to come.........by the way, given the fact its a world class shipyard......has anyone looked into the one major growth market of The Mega Yachts

The Royal Navy has a future?

It's currently smaller than Itlay's navy! And they're going to make more cuts.

Originally meant to get 12 of these ships, which to the Navy's credit are decent ships, each one is equivalent to 12 of it's predecessors, but they've cut back to eight and now down to six more than likely. (although the missile system has been screwed up so it will only take french missiles and will have to be retro fiitted severely if they want to stick cruise missiles in them, and the gear box is rubbish, the engine could make it go as fast as a get ski but they've stuck something in that'll make it move like a snail)

We've only got 19 active warships at the moment. It's a disgrace.

And look at the size of the Daring and Dauntles, huge compared to the old type 42's they're replacing yet with a slighlty smaller crew?

God help them if the get a fire or even hit, damage control will be a nightmare.

Cheez they look beautiful, ideal fishery protection boats to protect us from the Frenchies and other European poaching fishermen. The question should be how many knots do they do to the gallon. Not much use if they have to spend half their patrol tied up to an oil rig platform. If you had enough of them, you could rent them out to England.

I see them in the yards most days and the frigates are very impressive - bigger than they seem in pictures. There's a warship at the bottom of Dyke Road!

Once the SNP get their hands on government no doubt that will be the end of that, because they don't spprove of the nasty UK government which might actually use them!

#4 Rent them to England?

The UK government owns them, I reckon it would have to be the Scots who rented them and as Gnasher says that would hardly happen as the SNP don't seem to think Scoltand will be involved in any wars or need an adeguate military.

I can understand the workers point of view, they still have jobs, but i will never understand celebrating the launch of a warship, a weapon of mass destruction.

Paulr, we live on an island and warships mean we can protect supply routes and blooter those who would try to blackmail us, like the Argies. Plus they're pretty in an odd way. The lack of blooterage that the navy has had to perpetrate in recent years is testimony to its existence and power.

I'm all for more ships. All us nice like a sailor! Or two! :)

Hopefully they have got rid of most the ~18% harmonic voltage distortion (Vthd) estimated by Alstom caused by the 2 x 20MW electric propulsion drives. (but I doubt it !) If not, they are well above NATO limits (5% Vthd) and will have real problems.

The US electric ships now being designed will have a different type of drive called PFM (Pulse Frequency Modulation) and is a real advantage in drive design.

I cant' talk about the new range of electric weapons which will go on the new US ships (e.g. rail guns, lasers, etc - all Gucci gear as they say in the RM).

We are seeing the last Royal Navy ships to be built on the Clyde. You can say goodbye to the Royal Naval fleet, it will be subject to massive MOD cuts, it will become small, very small, with no carriers and mostly confined to port.

Royal Navy no more!

http://platosway.blogspot.com

#1 Er... I don't think that looks are key when it comes to naval warfare? Still a "best looking ship" contest could be a novel way to solve international disputes....

#12 I suppose then they would have to have a swimwear contest.

#6 NICK BYRNE.
You are completely wrong. Check out the SNP web site and see for your self. Scotland will need good maritime defences to protect commercial interests and territorial waters, we have a huge coastline, and many communities dependent on the sea.
As #11 says we are looking at the last Royal Navy ships being built on the Clyde. UK plc. cannot afford the Navy she has, never mind a new one. Most of them will spend their lives mothballed in Pompey. We have new submarines and missiles to pay for to appease our American masters.
UK. plc. is bankrupt, as are the politics of the union. Scotland is being dragged backwards by it. Our population in decline and the only jobs we will have left will be the civil service and call centres, a service economy to service England.
There are plenty of uses that the engineering skills and these Clyde yards can be put to, not the least of them being renew-ables. But to do that we need the political will. Given that the rest will follow.
IT IS TIME.

Sadly the person who said it is a world class shipyard is totally wrong, not the workers fault but bad management.

Having worked in Korea and been all the top three modern producing shipyards and worked in Govan, there is no compatablity, the Koreans are not paid in boils of rice, they have a good living from birth to death from the yards, live in good housing and kids well educated and repectful.

If only we could compete but it requires investment

#14 The SNP will not be getting its mits on a type 45 destroyer if it takes over no matter what their coastal protection policy.

Scotland will end up with a fleet of patrol boats like Sweden, Denmark and Norway, since that's who like to compare themselves to.

Hardly worth calling a navy.

Ian C (10): "Hopefully they have got rid of most the ~18% harmonic voltage distortion (Vthd) estimated"

Is the estimate really that high? Very worrying. I've been more worried by the extremely optimistic claims made for the Sampson phased array system to be perched precariously on the pyramidal main mask.

This whole story is hardly worth the ink.
A past it's sell by date force being provided by a past it's sell by date industry.
Keep grooming each other it won't last much longer.
The statement made on live TV said it all.
The joining off the last two defence ship builders will allow the correct number of employees to be busy all the time. ie. we will shut clyde down and move everything to portsmouth.
watch this space.
Ingram aslo hinted at this at the weekend.
If this industry cannot be commercially viable without government contracts it is doomed.

Duncan (14): "There are plenty of uses that the engineering skills and these Clyde yards can be put to, not the least of them being renew-ables. But to do that we need the political will."

What is the SNP policy on heavy industries for an independent Scotland? Does it advocate renationalization and government funding of industrial sectors?

#2 ........ I seem to remember that Naval yards are prevented from building civil vessels like Mega Yachts under some obscure rule on competition. Neat idea though...

#18......... You could well be right.. The Govt has been chasing consolidation amongst naval yards for a while.. However - if that does happen then I'm sure RBS, HBOS and our other financial institutions will step in to help buy out the Clyde yards..... and turn them into huge building sites for new houses no doubt !

Fairpax 17.

Actually it was 17.6% Vthd before Alstom decided to fit 5th and 7th harmonic passive filters (not the best thing). The problem is two fold :-

1. Protect the rest of the ship from the distortion from the MV going through the MV/LV transformers and

2. Reduce the Vthd caused by all the other loads (computers, missle systems et al).

The NATO standard is 5% Vthd. It will be interesting to see if Dauntless complies with this ! I very, very much doubt this. Then there are all problems thereof !

#16 Nick_B.

An independent Scotland won't want aircraft carriers or nuclear powered, WMD carrying submarines to project pointless post-imperial power fantasies about itself around the globe. It would much rather spend most of those billions of Scottish taxpayers' pounds on educational, health and transport infrastructure and associated services.

A Scotland with full control again over its own affairs will invest properly in its shipyards and build up its naval forces to a level appropriate for its own defence and the protection of its interests.
Strange how Norway, Sweden and Denmark seem to manage perfectly well with their own naval forces and fisheries protection.

Actually I've spent quite some time with the Swedish Navy, while their boats are pretty they aren't much of a deterrent against anything, unless you're sinking fishing boats.

Even thier subs are about as threatening as a wet tissue.

And their army, while large and has some god weapons, they tend to be more sedate on the international scene.

But Ii forgot Scotland's happy to shrink from the world theatre and look to it's own.

Why be a big player when you can be insular?

#1: I believe its angular design is to reduce radar signature (although somone correct me, if I'm wrong).

25: You're correct. The rosy view from BAE is here:

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/horizon/

22 Hebb- Norway, Denmark,Sweden seem to manage perfectly well- Yes, as well as they managed in WW2!! If Great Britain then had a fleet comparable in size to the countries you mentioned we'd all be speaking German! You and your SNP compatriots live in a cloud cuckoo land if you believe this island can exist without a blue water Navy. Nobody would rather spend money on warships than education,health etc. if they did not consider them an absolutely necessary insurance policy!

B-b-b-b-but we aren't British according to the SNP and their cronies (not according to an atlas, but nevermind, why let a little thing like the truth get in the way of being muppets eh), why should we be proud of an apparent "foreign" military vessel in our waters. Ignoring the nationalist thetoric though, it looks a nice ship, it's gonna be interesting to see how it performs in action and whether the hull design will make any significant impact on it's radar profile to foreign navies. Nice to know we still have the ability to make some of the most technologically advanced ships in the globs on this island of ours.

#27 Geoff

Just to bring things up to date.

The Second World War ended over sixty years ago.

The Germans and Italians are now our friends within the EU.

The Soviet Union doesn't exist any more.

Britain no longer has an Empire.

The only cloud cuckoo land is the fantasy one inhabited by the dwindling number of unionists in their North British redoubt. Living in and for the past, unable in their narrow mindedness to let go of London's apron strings and venture unaided into the modern world.

The movement for Scottish independence has always been resolutely internationalist. It's typical unionist scaremongering to suggest otherwise. But that's what unionism is all about.

It's a tired, anachronistic way of looking at yourself, at your neighbours and the world. It's all about engendering fear in the natives, putting up the shutters and keeping Johnny Foreigner out instead of welcoming those who want to make a contribution to Scotland's future (including Germans, Italians, Poles, Romanians, Bulgarians, South Africans (!) whoever).

By the way, Scots and others from these islands and further afield fought Hitler not to defeat the idea of Scottish independence but to preserve our democratic way of life. The way of life that allows us to choose who governs us, nationalist or unionist.

As a former shipyard worker on the Clyde I always felt saddened after a launch as the berths lay empty and the order books dried up.
Nae mer work.

The truly important question is if they still serve grog to the tars aboard?

29 Hebb- with respect, you obsfucate! You made the comment that the Scandinavians have managed well with small navies. They would have managed just as well with no navies-ie in the absence of conflict! The point is, what do you do when some other power threatens your people, your land or your vital interests. Whilst I think the WW2 comparison is still valid, notwithstanding the passing of 60 years, more up to date examples would be the Royal Navy's performance in the Falklands, and up to the minute, the rescue of BRITISH citizens from the Lebanon. If you were Danish,Norwegian or Swedish you would have had to rely on a foreign navy to uplift you as would an Independent Scotland. You can hide behind the coat tails of others or pretend the world is all sweetness and light if you wish or you can remain prepared and strong and United in this Island to face the real threats that we will encounter in the future.

#32

But Geoff, you make my point for me. An independent Scotland wouldn't have any strategic interest (other than fostering good relations) in distant colonial outposts like the Falklands.

Any international crises would (and should) be dealt with through the appropriate body - the UN, where countries share the responsibility for resolving disputes, evacuating foreign nationals, peace keeping etc. At least that is how it was before Britain and the US screwed things up.

The situation in Lebanon was a classic case of how not to defuse a conflict on the part of the US and UK. If we hadn't given the green light to the Israelis to carry on bombing the bejesus out of that virtually defenceless country there would have been no humanitarian crisis and hence no need to send in the navy. To add insult to injury we stand by and watch as thousands of Lebanese civilians are killed and injured as a result of our inept foreign policy priorities.

Just because we got our own people doesn't make it ok. Prevention is better than cure. Our gunboat approach to diplomacy causes more problems than it solves. It's an imperial legacy and one we in Scotland would be well shot of, if you pardon the pun.

I'm enough of a realist to know that the world is not all sweetness and light and that Scotland would need strong conventional defence forces, even though the chances of France/Germany/Italy invading this country are nil going on minus zero. Over and above the non-existent likelihood of invasion from our European neighbours, I just cannot see who would pose an invasion threat to Scotland.

Well maybe George Bush, once he's finished destroying any hopes of a lasting peace in the Middle East.

You read it here first.

#32,
If you are going to rely on the UN, you will be in a world of hurt.
The UN is one of the most corrupt organizations on this planet.

34 Sambo-Well said.
33 Hebb- I agree with much of what you say, particularly your comments about the Lebanon, but feel it would be naive to rely on the UN an organisation that has proved itself absolutely useless as a peacekeeper-its failures in Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia in particular stand out. With regard to your comment-who would pose a threat to Scotland-the point is if every democracy was to adopt this attitude, the "free" world would consist of a group of nations like for example Ireland and Norway and New Zealand who have no credible means to defend themselves and in the event of a future conflict,which event is inevitable in the future as the worlds new super powers arise in the east, the question that no"wee nation" adherent wants to answer is-how do you defend yourself? Britain is one of the worlds significant nations and has an historical obligation to maintain significant military forces.I would agree Tony Blair and his government
have pursued a disastrous foreign policy to the great detriment of this country's reputation and military resources.

hebb, does the sun always shine in your world too. Possessing an asset like the Royal Navy means that we can always protect our citizens abroad. I cannot understand your comment about Bush and Blair, afterall only the US navy has the capability to carryout the operation you describe.

How independent are you, if you rely on others to look after yer ain folk. I guess you never read up on the Darien venture, which propelled scotland into the Union in the first place.

#19 Fairfax. No.
#24. Nick Byrne.
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/visby/
Seems pretty nifty to me, and could spoil anyones day.

As to Scotland being insular. Just a cheap shot from a po faced unionist.

Scotland has no ambition to be a big player on the world stage, after seeing the trouble it has got England into over the centuries. And even today we they are still at it in the middle east. A monkey on their back for ever. The Empire is gone the union is to follow, get over yourselves, you have had your time and failed miserably.
UK. plc. if it still exists will be £700 billion in the red come 2012. And that is the present conservative estimate. By the time London's Olympics has sucked another £500 billion or so into the overfed unprivileged south east, who knows what the figure will be. England will be lucky to afford an Avon RIB if Scotland declares UDI. Get over it, it is over. IT IS TIME.

Who has threatened Costa Rica recently?

Mine.

Got it # 39. Good night.

re 38,
Who lives next door to Costa Rica? An old policy called the Monroe doctrine, no exterior aggression tolerated.

I see Britain is cutting back on it's navy as well as France. Let America do the heavy lifting, it looks like. Americana rules the waves...!

I'm waiting for the first Chinese round the world trip, with an armed flotilla. They did it before.

Are you saying that Scotland cannot produce a utility fishery protection vessel cum gun boat to sell in the world market. If it is a good design, economical to produce and maintain what is stopping you? Even Tasmania, through one individual, produces the Devil Cat. Now that piece of equipment is fast. Rumour has it that the latest models do over 100 knots. Are you guys still good at innovation?

Yet another example of a bribe to keep Scots sweet to the Union.

Give them government contracts to build Navy boats in yards that are not economically viable.

Glasgow - and Scotland - must aspire for more than just government handouts to industries that failed due to, guess what, government handouts in the 60s and 70s!

45# agreed.
some people can't see past the end of their pay packet.

#45 sc.

Well said you should be first minister.

GP & Duncan,

Why thankyouverymuch! Sometimes I amaze myself at how clearly I can see the issues affecting Scotland in 2007 - and how wrong everyone else tends to be.