I think there is more to this than meets the EYE as regards this constant bombardment in the media all of a sudden about racism...........oh i forgot the elites want regionalism :)

If I were one of her parents, I'd be suing the "£19,662-a-year St Peter's School in York" for their obvious lack of ability in actually educating anyone. Mind you, I wonder how much blame the parents will accept for this - and how much of their views the girl is actually just repeating.

This little story highlights everything bad about UK.
A polarized country down ethnic and class grounds.
A gutter media and press waiting to whip it into a frenzy. An unhealthy PC culture. Mix that with the low brow British culture , and here you have a splendid picture of Britain today.

There will come a time soon ...if people do not wake up.....where it will be a crime to call yourself Scottish. It will come under a guise like.....we are all CITIZENS of the world etc.....
I myself have mates all over the globe but what i see going on smacks of smoke and mirrors

Let's not get too worked up over the callow rant of an 18 year old. The TV camera banks on controversy as valid entertainment value. Combine the two and you have a very contrived tempest in a very artificial teapot.
She's talking to hear herself talk.
Pat her on the head, say "Naughty girl" and move on.

Comment@5 Scullion, hi mate...agreed :)

One has to wonder if the executives of reality TV have not "advised" the inmates to raise the game on controversy?

Either that or there definitely are racist people being put into these progs!

Glad I'm not there. I'd be inclined to slap the first person to make a racist remark down!

Comment@5 and 7. Agreed! enough said

There is a superbly done fast-paced Documentary called .....We.....Thats well worth the watching :) http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=410032256208218...

Females have lot to answer for, men are far to clever for these kind of things, mainly because we have had to put up with the feminism thing for years and are well aware of our status, women will just have to get used to it, not very pleasent though girls is it, not being able to speak your mind. lol

Excuse me folks but, in a democratic society, aren't we allowed to express an opinion anymore, whether we agree with it or not? An 18 year old is entitled to her opinion the same as everybody else, even if it is fodder for crappy TV shows. Get used to it folks, that's free speech at work!

Scottwebb, what have your paranoid delusional comments got to do with this article?

I simply do not understand why anyone watches these so called "reality" programmes, they are sheer drivel. They court and coach the "contestants" to be "controversial" to get the great British Public "outraged" and so get all the free publicity. In anycase if this young girl has these views why can't she air them, you don't have to agree with her, but you cannot take away her right to have them and air them, if she is doing so to show that she has them, and not merely to incite. If people who have these views are not allowed to express them then you are never going to know the extent of the problem in the UK, because a lot more people than Lucy hold exactly the same views, and it can only be tackled by education and equal opportunity, not be silencing them, as the problem just gets hidden and not tackled.
Finally you have to look at the "agendas" of the gutter press and media (all reality shows are gutter).

Duncraig # 11, in this country you are not allowed to make comments likely to incite religious or racial hatred. So no, some opinions are disallowed. Some of her comments on slavery are surely a bit close to the bone on this one.

#5: Don't agree at all.This girl's comments are far worse than Jade's."Bring back slavery" she says and you want to pat her on the head. Get a grip!
Funny how the vile comments of a New Town toff don't generate the same number of complaints as a moron from Bermondsey.
#10.Away to your bed.

This is ridiculous. This girl is only 18 and entitled to her opinion and teenagers tend to be more free with speech.

Give the girl a break! Soon we will have some people wanting her beheaded. Its reality tv for heavens sake.

Jade Goody said what she said and in the end it may affect her earnings but just look at what ex politician Edwina Currie said about her and the other two girls. She called them slags for heaven sake.

This is the women who almost ruined an industry. Leaving people and business almost fianancially ruined. Eggs actly!

This is the women who had (ahem) an affair with John Major!

Stop badgering young 18 and 25 year olds. It's the oldies like Edwina Currie who should be setting an example.

Comment@16 Faye, hi there......unfortunately pseudo intellectuals like Julian and the likes have their heads buried so deeply up their own rears in denial.......they could refresh their memories on what they ate for the past few fays.......and little else than cheap snapping at other commentators :)

As the step mother of 3 boys, aged 18 (twins) and 20, I am constantly amazed by the ridiculous views they hold. At that age, they see life in black and white (no pun intended), they are so dogmatic in their views. Also, can anyone remember without cringing, what they were like at 18 and their views on things?

Not condoning these comments but I am wholly suspicious of these so called reality programs and how much is reality and how much is contrived. We are pawns of the media, as far as I can see.

Did anyone see how much the Big Brother ratings increased by once Jade made her remarks? The executives must be wringing their hands in glee!

I think this girl is very much a product of her education, I went to private school myself in Scotland, where racism wasn't prevalent but elitism was. However, it doesn't mean I hold those views today (nor was I allowed to at the time by my parents). More fool her parents for letting her go on such a program. We all know that anyone who goes on those sorts of programs are just fodder for the media.

this little girl has a vote. The law deems her adult so she is responsible for her views. She should be spending her gap yeasr more productively. My neo weirdon vegetarian niece returned from her time in rural Belieze better informed and as an educated omnivore having learned that teh poor of th third world do not have the luxury of vegetarianism

I deplore these programmes and have no doubt that the rows are contrived

She may not be alone in this way of thinking. This could be a deep rooted beliefof lots of disillusioned kids of today and a forbear of the next generation Not all agree with the antiquated colonial diatribe that prevails to this day. Just because you were born in a faraway part of the empire does NOT make you english.

Scottwebb # 17, i'm still waiting. What have your comments got to do with this article? Common, I'm sure you must be able to find a tenuous link somewhere.

I do partially agree with you on your "big brother" views. I just don't think it's the orchestrated conspiracy that you believe.

Faye # 16, yes she's entitled to her opinion but no, she's not free to spout rhetoric which may incite racial or religious hatred. Are you in favour of letting people say whatever they like no matter how libellous or racist? What if her opinion was that someone should be killed?

I am particulary impressed that this girl has adopted, and held, these views all on her own through her teenage years. She must have felt so isolated fighting her corner and sticking to her guns.

After all the environment she has been brought up in was a well to do household and a top private school so surely she was the only one in these places that held these believes?

I just cannot imagine that anyone in these types of establishments would have had the same views so like I say well done for her being so brave and sticking to what she holds so dear.

Oh no wait. it has just dawnned on me. How stupid am I? There must be others she heard talking about such matters, others that she had conversations with and others who led her to that way of thinking. Yep that sounds more realistic.

Let's get real here. if you think she is the only one out there. The class system is alive and well so get used to it.

Look at the UK, veils are not part of a secure society.
There must be some truth in the youth of today?
Why are more & more of the younger generation are fed up with relgion, politics & etc?
After all we all have a Freedom of speech so what is wrong voicing one's option even if only some cprners say your wrong, others say you are right?

These remarks might have something to do with constant Nigerian fraud & corruption attempts to get our money, 419 scam.
When will it stop & yes anger is directed at Nigeria & the UK govt for failing us.

The Western world is in the unfortunate position of having to watch what it says about other races and therein lies the problem.

Europe, America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and other traditionally white nations have raced ahead of their Asian and African counterparts in terms of technological advancement and industry. Our infrastructures are better, our economies wealthier and our lives more affluent. Our governments are more advanced, our municipal services or council services produce a higher quality of water, electricity, roads, highways and by-ways not to mention public transport. Th streets are safe for tourists to walk in, the city centres are generally clean and steeped in history. There is little to no starvation and civil unrest in rare. As a result of this advancement people from other races flock to our shores in order to escape the hardships that come with living in societies which are so many centuries behind. In time these people become parents to new generations of British Asians and African's etc and so the story goes until someone says something untoward about their race. It is wrong and we should try harder, but if these other nations took the time to lift themselves from the same poverty that British and European people suffered hundreds of years ago then maybe they would not NEED to flee their countries in order to escape a life of poverty and little hope.

Turn the tables, what if Brits and Europeans were hundreds of years behind and Asian and African countries were advanced. We may want to flock to their shores have kids and stay forever. When we then begin to impose our views and traditions on them would it be unfair of them to deny us the right to do so?

Not sure the race issue will ever go away! And thats because its not really about race, its about cultural intollerance! How do you fix that?

She has a right to speak her mind, remember this show was a recorded one, if they had thought it was racist they could have editted it out, but no they want to boost their figures as with all sad reality shows.
The producers of the show are more racist than her by airing the show in the first place, it was only to boost figures

Come on, it's just the daft comments of a silly little girl. No doubt everyone has said something equally offensive to some person at one point in their lives. The only difference being there wasn't a camera there (well, hopefully there wasn't).

The UK is a free country (sort of, generally speaking) if the BNP are allowed to make party political broadcasts and they convey more offenisve ideas I think a teenager can say she believes in the Empire and think fat people are disgusting.

Sorry Media 1 #25 Australia is not "traditionally white" & I just canny really be bothered answering your view that the nations you talk about have "raced ahead" because, well, I think we differ in what we value & what we see and never the twain shall meet.
To get back to the article -- my first reaction was -- Has slavery gone?

Indeed it's not about "race" - despite the rantings of the "ban the racists" brigade. It's about culture. Some cultures are acceptable here, others for fairly obvious reasons - female circumcision, chopping off hands of thieves, refusal to accept the laws of the adopted country for "religious" reasons - cannot be. I fail to see how that issue can be negotiable.
This girl as reported may have some pretty weird beliefs. What I would wonder is whether she or those who can only shout "racism" at the very first opportunity are the sillier or the more ignorant.

#28 YANE: You know what I mean. America was not always white but then nobody had the right to the land back then,,it was the birth of a new dawn when man was exploring the planet in search of ideas and new beginnings. Those who had advanced the furthest would dominate, thats life!

All I am saying is that white nations provide a comfort which far exceeds those in Asian and African nations, therefore those races and cultures flock to white nations as opposed to whited flocking to theirs.

But my question was " If Asian and African nations had raced ahead to produce some of the wealthiest nations and cities on the planet and we as poor whites who were hundreds of years behind flocked there. Would it be acceptable for us to force our beliefs, traditions and laws upon them"?

There is no right and wrong answer to that question, its rhetorical. I only want your opinion.

Hands up anyone who reckons that any teenager, male or female has all their marbles. Multiculturism and Ethnic diversity were a political invention both in the UK and Australia. I cannot remember who introduced it to Australia, maybe Gough Whitlam, he was quite a serious socialist. However previously Australia was right into the British Empire and white rule. However now a days Australians come in all flavours so you have a choice of not only who you support in cricket, football or Aussi rules, but what gang you join if your team loses. I think it is called civilisation.

One thing she has got right is Britian is in a mess with this current Government and the PC attitude that is adopted by the masses, there is no doubt about that,

#21 Julian. You seem to have double standards! Look at your comments to 1 Scottweb! "Orchestrated conspiracy that you believe."

What do you know what this person believes?

Just like the young 18 year old, what do you really know about what she believes apart from her throw away comments.

I don't agree with anyone being subservient to another human being but these people are youngsters. What's more worrying is an ex politician calling the girls slags.

Goody has got people talking - even people who don't watch the programme! That can't be bad, can it?

Do you want people to be so perfect that we end up living in " Julians' World"?

No matter what breed, colour race - people are the same all over. Good and bad in every society.

I was once told "go home white honky" by locals on a Carribean Island. Did that make me dislike those people? No, of course not! Did I shout racists, no, of course not.

People who can't take a bit of flak must have a chip on their shoulder. Loosen up and realise that this is a tv game show, with squawking females who often like the sound of their own voices, nothing else.

Well I think it is very, very wrong to judge parents by the utterances of their children, and to judge people on scant knowledge of their characters. And I haven't seen the programme - indeed I'd never heard of it.

However.

This family seem to me to be the most awful, horrendous snobs. Their idiot daughter seems to be a racist airhead of the first vintage, packed full of hate and contempt for the rest of us - no doubt a product of her ridiculous school and appalling home life. And what's her parents' reaction? They hire a PR Firm! Which advises them to come up with the advice reflected in their statements reported here!

Being 18 is no excuse. She is reflecting the views and attitudes she gets at home and at school. She thinks the rest of us are here to serve her. No doubt her parents do so too or they would have adressed this.

I would like to know what firm Daddy is an IT executive in, I really would.

I saw and heard what this young woman said on TV. I do not believe that under any circumstances what she had to say was "Racist". It seems these days in the UK that anyone who expresses any opinion which is counter to the PC line is branded as wrong.

What is the matter with the bloody country? You've let too many divisive political and cultural minorities take control. Now ,I shudder to see the girl's mother and father rush headlong into apologising on her behalf!

Will someone in the PC brigade kindly inform her interfereing father that this young lady (So I am told by the media, anyway ) is over 18 years of age, entitled to vote, and thus perfectly entitled to her own opinion ! If that distresses her father, he should take it on board and live with it - keeping his mouth shut! He may democratically state he disagrees with his daughter's point of view but he has NO RIGHT to offer apologies on her behalf. If he's got half a set of guts he should withdraw that apology and issue a new one to his daughter.

Well said, Lucy Buchanan - I agree - nothing much wrong with slavery, except maybe for the slaves - but then it isn't a real issue these days is it.?

In fact, had slavery not been abolished by the 19th century equivalent of NuLab and the LIberal/Democrats maybe we wouldn't be having the problems today in Britain that are an absolute consequence of the actions and opinions of the types who are berating Lucy.

The Thought Police/PR Brigade are having a field day.......but they can't yet stop people thinking that there are far too many cultures in Britain and that lesbians are sinister.

Well said, Lucy, for having the guts to speak out.

Bill #35 - there are at least 27 million slaves in the world today. The price of slaves is as low as US$40 in Mali for young adult male laborers, to a high of US$1000 or so in Thailand for HIV-free young females suitable for use in brothels.

Media 1#30 Migrants try to force their "beliefs, traditions & laws" on people of their adoptive country? I've never seen this. However, as often as we can we try to edumacate Australians in how to have a proper party. Hey! It's Rabbie's birthday tomorrow isn't it? Better get out the Chivas...

The slave trade is an African invention. Indeed most if not all African Americans were sold to the white buyers by the black masters.

It still happens today, it is the African way! Even in democracy the leaders enslave their people...Robert Mugabe is a prime example.

Well Daddy's PR firm must be proud. All the racists and fascists in the world will be out to support his wee girl - in the local paper too! Comment #37 will no doubt be the first of many as the fruitloops wake up.

Its just a guise to get the ratings up. Who would have heard of this programme if the media did not cover the rantings of a stupid spoiled wee lassie. What parent would agree to let an 18 year old go on a so called reality TV show?

Oh aye, #37.

Well, Comerscroft, you will have at least cheered up her parents by demonstrating that there are even worse biggots out there than their daughter.

#41 Gnasher: You probably mean well, but your suffering from a serious bout of denial. People are not programed perfectionists, neither are you. YOU have at some point in your life offended someone, you have at some point been cut off in your car by a man with no hair and you have thought or uttered, you stupis baldy bastard. Or something along those lines.

Lucy is an 18 year old child whose words are those of millions around the world. Wake up and smell the roses and stop pretending to be some moral scholar of perfection.

She's a very naughty girl and needs spanked. Any takers?

# 7 Really?
But you can misquote an American poster for the pure pleasure of launching into a vitiolic anti-American tirade. Love it.

Don't you people realize that there is no reality in 'reality' programs? The 'contestants' are continually coached, coaxed, and/or provoked into saying outrageous things. It makes for good ratings.

Honestly, though, how many of us would like to have to justify to the world the various [insert adjective of choice] things we may have said when we were 18? I surely wouldn't.

Lucy is an adult at 18, educated and in her "gap year before university, and on national TV talking racist elitist rubbish. She doesn't get to get away with it. Nor do her appalling parents. Nor do the apologists posting here. Now wait for the tidal wave of loonspuds posting in favour of her "right to free speech".

She has a right to free speech!

However, some subjects should be for private conversations only.

Abdigate your parental responsibilities for £20k a year, so you can become an 'executive'? Sometimes your selfish decisions come back and bite you on the bum.

Yes this wee girl is entitled to her opinions. But she didn't invent them overnight. Who are the people she has mixed with who have left them unchallenged? Or do you have to pay school fees to make sure you never come in contact with such people?

#47 Gnasher: Your a riot haha! Your pretence at being perfection personified is hilarious...lmfao

I do have to come down, sadly, on the side of free speech here. To listen to some people ranting above, you'd honestly think something significant had happened, beyond some yah, who I have never heard of, on a programme I have never heard of, opened her mouth and let her belly rumble. This is classic gorblimey journalism at it's finest, and sad to say just about every paper appears to be run along similar lines these days.
I am all for anyone saying what they like. Even better if it is utter tosh. It's great that these idiots have a platform to espouse loathsome opinions - they damn themselves with their ignorance.
So bring them all on. Jade, 18 year old public schoolgirls, Nick Griffiths, Norman Tebbits, Abu Hamza....tell us what you really believe. These people need a platform so that everyone else can dismiss their appalling and retarded views. And, up to now, most people seemed quite happy with that....then of course, Nanny Blair intervened!

Good morning racist fruitloops, loonspuds and assorted gun nuts! She doesn't have a right to free speech to promote race hatred and elitism.

#49 Steve99: Get a life you fool. You are another pretender who is attempting to con us into believing that you are some image of perfection.

I know kids who go out and come home half an hour late..Their parents did not teach them to be purposely unpunctual.

Get a life

#51 - you're absolutely right. (However, positively rather than sadly.)

#7 "one has to wonder..." You don't really, do you? Has the infatuation with reality TV over there in Britland REALLY taken over to THAT extent?
You don't have to wonder at all. These shows are very very carefully orchestrated and there's VERY little that happens on them that isn't carefully planned. While the producers might not actually put words into these people's mouths, they're chosen very carefully indeed to get maximum controversy and they know very well long before airtime what a given contestant is likely to do in a given situation.
You can be very very sure indeed that the people who chose this woman to appear on the show knew EXACTLY what her views are and knew very well that she'd probably air them.
It's SUCH a totally cynical and expoitative type of show that it staggers me that otherwise normal people would EVER watch it.

"tabloids branded her the new Jade"

Please...
ok, so she's a brainless spoilt little rich brat but shes not quite that ugly.

#52
Yes she does. Or at least she used to.
Up until recently, and so long as you were not inciting people to go out and kill (there are of course exceptions to this rule!) we actually didn't mind that people walked around spouting piffle and bile. People were credited with the intelligence to sift out the keech, and ignore the nutjobs. Now, the prevailing view appears to be that we simply are too sensitive, or too gullible, to be exposed to far right, far left or religious extremism.
So why don't we just fill our papers and screens with happy lambs skipping in meadows, and hey presto, better world, and most importantly, no nutty views.
For me, I need to hear these halfwits. She had a platform, said what she said, and will be supping her porridge for years to come. Likewise every other idiot who stands up and spouts forth - the list is endless. I am glad David Icke told me about his purple visions (madman) or Glenn Hoddle shared his views on reincarnation (fool) or Abu Hamza shared his charming views on race, women and other religions (fanatic). I'd rather hear them damn themselves, rather than never be exposed to such foolish people.
I am no great libertarian really, but I can see the elephant in the room here. If we allow the Government, or the media, to start shaping what is, or isn't acceptable comment, we are on a slippery path. What happens when you have a minority view?

Fair enough about the slaves, no protection for that stupid ignorant comment, all humans deserve dignity. But the comment on multi-culturism deserves proper debate, who here remembers voting for multi culturism ?, it's no surprise that the BNP are gaining votes, as long as the mainstream parties avoid the immigration issues it will happen. When in Rome do as the Romans do, i have no issues with people from other lands or cultures living in britain, but when they try & force them onto other people then problems will arise.

Let's not run and censor everything just because a few flash-in-the-pan TV stars decide to spout forth. What does it matter? It matters what you and I do and say, not them. Agree to differ. There will always be those with whom you cannot agree. JayJay's right (again).

#34 Gnasher I strongly object to your comment that the girl must have got her views from her parents. I reprimand my son for some of his views which are gleaned from some of his friends and online chat on MSN. Nothing whatsoever to do with my views. We discuss a lot of things and I am afraid he has his own mind. He wouldn't dare say anything racist to me as he knows what reaction he would get but that wouldn't stop him saying it to his friends when I wasn't there - the same way I am pretty sure he swears out of my earshot.

Hold the front page!

UK reality TV show contestant found to be both shallow and vacuous!

Just a small observation, but this ‘little girl’ has said no worse than the usual comments in these threads directed towards the English by the nationalists.

Not all of them but certainly the majority of the ones taking the ‘harder line’!! Fair point?

#60 - "I am afraid he has his own mind".

Shame on him. Should be caned, what?

Yes, the idiot girl has a right to speak her mind. Everyone does. But with Free Speech comes responsibility. People should learn to think first before leaping in to a convo, mouth blazing. I know, I've done it myself. I see others do it all the time.

But when it comes to controversial matter like racism, gay adoption, war in Iraq, etc etc ...... you should stop and engage your brain before you open your mouth.

Said girl did not. Therefore no points and a mark against her for stupidity! But let's not pillory her too much. Her views on race may be a learned response.

Graeme, 63, fair point. But these hard line nats are racists and should be challenged much more vigorously. No platform for racists.

#64 Apparently I am not allowed to cane him. I canny even put a bar of soap in his mouth for swearing (if I hear him) which I think is a bit off eh!

A typically disappointing article from the Scotsman about a 'celebrity'-orientated non-story. Further evidence of the paper's decline.

18 Year OLD SPOUTS NONSENSE

This is not really news, and is just a cheap scottish news version of what happened on Big Brother.

Dont give it the time of day.

We can laugh at this kind of stuff when it is done with "irony" by Ricky Gervais.. where do we draw the line ?

So , an 18 year old (who's brain and opinions are yet to form properly - its true), comes out with some rubbish about slavery. So What ?

Im sick of this PC nonsense. Every single one of us is Racist, Ageist , Fattist, Snobbish /Inverse Snobbish IN SOME FORM or another. The trick this wee lass hasnt learned is you dont go shouting it from the rooftops.

Its human nature , and we do our best to contain it and muddle through - we dont really mean any harm. We cant help it.

18 Year Old Has Opinion!

Hold the front page Lois Lane!

Julian 12 - Unfortunately scotwebb 4 has a point. A scottish chap displaying a scottish flag at his home in Ross and Cromarty, Scotoland, was orderd to remove it. It apparently offended someone!

71 - muddle through is exactly it. As you say, most of us don't really mean any harm. I for one am not going to come over all sensitive like when confronted with people of other nations and races, religions and creeds. Let's all speak our minds (but not from the rooftops).

73 - I fly my wee scots flag from the roof sometimes here awa in Central Europe and nobody bats an eyelid. But then, I'm a valued minority I suppose.

In all this uproar of what this teenager said, let's not forget that at least for a little longer she does have FREE SPEECH. I know that the US and the EU have made so many legal inroads into the doctrine, that we have nothing resembling the free speech we did prior to the late 1980's but in fact, the way things are now is a perversion of everything that free speech stood for. Why don't we just give all citizens-and illegal aliens- the right to incarcerate "Speech Criminals" without trial, then we can move on to "Thought Crimes" or even "Suspected Thought Crimes"! Get real! Remember where you are. If you have a problem with free speech, the are LOTS of countries where the truth is prohibited by law. Go there!

Who is or was this "Julian' whose posting was so offensive to Scottweb and others - see postings #12, 14, and 21.

Did he just wake up from a drunken stupor and decided to post his silly rant?

That girl is an over-privileged twit and I do not think she will ever change her elitist views because of her background and education.

I have met young people of both sexes like that and they are insufferable snobs without a world-view and obsessed with status, fashion, luxury consumer goods, grooming products, and exotic vactions.

They are boring to talk to and irritatingly ignorant on most matters. They don't read unless its in their private (public) school curriculum and think any of their pronouncements are writ in stone.

They usually go on to become drunks, nymphomaniacs, sodomites, or government ministers.

Media 1 you are a stirring sh*te.

Your earlier comments in defining "white countries" to be more advanced is ( I believe) flaweed for several reasons. Japan,Singapore, Korea and other Asia countrie that are more advanced than ,for example ,Poland ( a white country). Also "White" countries where able to race ahead by using slight technological adavantages to cement economic dominjace. But as alwys this is will be cyclilar As non white economic Powerehouse in Asia (China) begin to become greater economic powers.

http://platosway.blogspot.com

I think the free speech point is incredibly important and one that we have to keep an eye on.

I'm not stating this as my opinion but if someone says "I think there are too many immigrants in this country", is this racist? Or is the person perfectly entitled to their opinion? It's something we have to watch...

As for the "bring back slavery" comment, it sounds like nothing more than a young, naive and rather silly girl showing off. Lets not crucify her for it!

I think this young lady will fit in just nicely with middle class Edinburghers.

It's all getting a bit Minority Report this. Jailing criminals before they have committed a crime.

Black is black, white is white. It is NOT coffee with or without milk!

It seems the great British Public have succumbed to the Media brainwashing that freedom of speech when espoused by White people is racism or something to that effect. The PC Libbys conveniently ignore the atrocities that are being committed daily in so called Democracies in Africa and particularly South Africa where the remaining Whites are the constant target of racially motivated criminals aided and abetted by a hateful Government. It's easier to believe the Mandela myth and ignore the carnage but ask the many,many Tourists from these shores and other European Countries who were brutally attacked in Cape Town and environments over the last few weeks. The facts are that ordinary British people are seeing that a multi cultural Society does not work when the culture foisted upon them is foreign to theirs and they are publically humiliated as racists when they raise their voice.We are all entitled to an opinion and should respect the law and the views of others but it seems this has become a one way street in the flavour of the month PCL's.

# 78. I Agree there can certainly be a few "twits" from “privileged backgrounds" but many from ‘working class backgrounds' I have certainly found to be the same if not worse in their views!

You have just fallen into that ‘little girl’s’ trap I think.

This island is racist. I've experienced it time and time again. Sorry to be racist-ist, but call a spade a spade. The problem is worse in England, but given that we are governed from there and our media is controlled from there, we can do little but adopt their culture of bigot-ism and racism too. It's a slippery slope.

its interesting hearing the extreme views and how they are saying basic ignore her she is naive and comes from a public school
that attitude is shocking in that it accepts the well know fact that private schools insulate upper class children from the real world, why then has the noboby asked the school to apologise for creating a climate the racist and views like that creep in. schools like that only serve to keep our elite racist cutting them off from the real world. The joke is that many of the oxford cambridge elite share the same views. But the rest of the country thinks there a joke the british empire is dead and they are a joke the sooner scotland can get independence and out of this joke nation the better

Whether or not you like or dislike what this young girl said I would defend her right to sya absolutely anything. Freedom of speech is slowly but surely being eroded from our society and soon you will not be allowed to have any opinion never mid a warped or extreme one.
Stand up for you rights the ones you forefathers fought do hard to get it is too precious a freedom to allow corupt politcians to stop.

Its interesting hearing the extreme views and how the media is saying basically ignore her she is naive and comes from a public school
That attitude is shocking in that it accepts the well know fact that private schools insulate upper class children from the real world. Why then has nobody asked the school to apologise for creating a climate that allows racist views like that creep in. Schools like that only serve to keep the elite from living in the real world.

The sick joke is that many of the oxford Cambridge elite share the same views. But the rest of the country thinks they are a joke the British Empire is dead and the sooner Scotland can get independence and out of this joke nation the better

I really have to change my name.

See the backlash against public schools starts.

We can all generalise, and If you generalise in this way, whats the difference between saying that and "all blacks are lazy" ?

Moderator , Im just making a point.

She may have developed her views from her educational establishment/ parents/ peers/ television/ video games/ whichever environmental factor we're blaming this week but in the end she's just an 18 year-old girl who made some incredibly stupid comments. And that's hardly news.
I'm only 24 so I remember being 18 fairly well and cringe when I think about some of the things I said/ did, as I'm pretty sure I'll cringe in a couple of years when I think back to being 24. It doesn't really need to start a national debate when an 18 year-old says something inane, especially as the reaction has been anything but supportive. Yes, she's an idiot, yes, her parents are going to have some serious words with her when she gets home, and yes, this will probably be beneficial in that she will be forced to learn more about the issues she so flippantly commented on. She will learn that her comments were not socially acceptable and (hopefully) that there are reasons for this. And no doubt this will haunt her later when she applies for jobs or meets new people. She's going to be punished for her comments probably out of all proportion of any real damage she caused. Just accept she's a fool and move on.

I think there is nothing wrong with freedom of speech, but even freedom of speech must have limits President Lincoln gave the example that would it would not be acceptable for someone to say there is a fire in a crowded place if there was none.
The fact is freedom of speech should be preserved and when you get arguments that you don’t like then it should be argued against rationally and not banned.
Banning hate speech or limiting freedom of speech that you don’t like that is immoral with out addressing it by rational argument plays into the hands of extreme views, the only true way to defeat extreme views is to preserve freedom of speech and to argue against the views without fear in the open.

Or do we want free speech of the kind which is increasingly common in liberal fascist Britain (new labour Britain) which is that you are only free to say what you want as long as the liberal elite agree with it.

Not seen the programme but...

This is an 18yr old who expressed her views in a conversation with her fellow contestants. She didn't stand up on TV and launch into a rascist lecture. Unfortunately she forgot that her comments were going to be aired to more than the handful of people she was discussing these issues with.

She just proved she is young and ignorant, not rascist. By actually discussing it she will hopefully get a broader perspective on other peoples thoughts and values. At the end of a gap year, I assume spent travelling the world, I'm sure she would have had a different opinion.

This is the media once again going to potentially ruin someones life for ratings.

Doesn't all of this appear a bit "Stage managed"..?

Fascinating how comments made by one 18-year old are taken to be indicative of the whole society.

An educated bigot is still a bigot, with even less excuse. I bet this lass has the opportunity to travel around and see other parts of the UK and the world yet she still spouts this nonsense.
The only thing that we can learn from these things is to stop attaching any importance to the opinions of individuals on reality TV, the end.

She's 18 and should know better.
her views are not her parent's responsibility!
her remark about slavery is totally out of order. she should be sent to work for a less well off family for a year as their slave to teach her a lesson (minus the whipping and starvation of course)
as for the other comments; do we agree or disagree?
most people are afraid to say what they think about immigration. because of "tolerance" and "Policy" the Scots are becoming a minority in their own country and there are more restrictions placed on us than the people coming in.
I do not subscribe to racism, but try going to some of the immigrants countries and do and say what they do hear and see how long you last!!
what is good for the Goose!

snobby btiches, rich kids, snobby parents, crap tv, expensive private education, spanking (heh heh)....this story has everything for further crap tv, films, news articles. Flies round shite.

#84 Graeme from Guangzhou.

Please stop being such a condescending twit.

Ach Kevint, dinnae fash yersel.
Don't forget the rich will always be rich and the poor poor. But sitting on your thumb complaining will do nothing to improve your own situation. Let the rich young thing say what she wants - we'll hae the last laugh.

#101 and your point is?

As someone who attended a private school can I just reveal (shock, horror . . . ) that lots of thick kids are housed in them. In fact, that is probably the reason that most attend; their inability to be 'catered for' in the state system (Ruth Kelly's reason for opting out on behalf of her child) is the thinking behind many parents' choice. The fact that a child can air juvenile views on a television programme is a function of the programme producers' strategy - nothing else. We should not aim our comments at the child. £19K a year well that was pi**ed up against a wall then!

Nice to see our friend Tim C W staying on track as usual.

It's all Jack McConnell's fault.

I meant to sign off . . . . . £19K a year? Well that was pi**ed up against a wall then!

To offensive comment 91
The difference is that private boarding schools do create views like that I am not saying that everyone has views like that but a significant number DO have views like that. I know first hand people who are educated in private schools and they have told me these views are common, I went to Merton College in oxford and the students in oxford are insulted from the real world culturally and socially. One upper class twat said to a Canadian women shut your just a colonialist in class that view is common.
That view of the world is insanely out of date.
The difference also between saying “all blacks are lazy” (which I don’t agree with but I responding to comment 91) and that there is a real problem with racism in private schools is that the black people are a racial and ethnic group which you cannot generalise about because black people like other races fit into different social groups and lifestyles and situations which mean generalisations like that are not only offensive but totally illogical. But the elite who attend boarding schools are not a race but are a social group and they do have similar attitudes and similar experiences in life which shape there views.
To use the statements like “all blacks are lazy” to defend your arguments about public schools I find Is totally offensive.

what a pity the philosophy of live and let live is gone

What happened to free speech in this country? Why can people not have different, if not PC, views? What are we all frightened of?

Sad!

to #108: You say that you went to Merton College - was that for the day? Very hard to understand your text as it is full of 'typos'.

108 - fatboyslim - "totally illogical". Sort yourself out! Which side of the fence are you on? Enlighten us.

"Privately-educated Lucy Buchanan said that Britain was home to "way too many cultures""

Private education does not mean these people have any intelligence just they have rich parents. At this level its mainly who you know rather than what you know counts! No doubt private schools shield their students from the reality of life and they have a different view on the world from that of a kid going to an inner city school.

These programs are rubbish and appear to teach people that anybody can be "famous" these days without lifting a finger.....

Oooh for the good old days when the only foreigners in Scotland were Tjeuchters!!!

No 107 -
"£19K a year? Well that was pi**ed up against a wall then!"
How would she do that, then?

The parents are apparently excusing their daughter's outrageous and ignorant outlook. It's not their place to apologise for her, but to describe her remarks as "silly" and due to excitement is pretty lame, and they should have said nothing if that's the best they can do. Still, at least they identified their own failures in the process.

Personally Im not into generalising about any group of society unless it is in jest.

If you went to a decent school, surely you can see that its wrong to generalise.

"Private education does not mean these people have any intelligence just they have rich parents. At this level its mainly who you know rather than what you know counts! No doubt private schools shield their students from the reality of life and they have a different view on the world from that of a kid going to an inner city school."

Codswallop. Opened my mind no end. And there weren't any inner city schools in the highlands and islands for me. No rich parents. No strings pulled. Just hard work and a determination to do well and persevere.

Otherwise, lets burn all people that went to public schools.

is slavery a swear word then? hands up anybody who thinks this twit's use of the word has made _anyone_ likely to go out pakibashing?
for me, a *multicultural* nation is a contradiction in terms as it is for the great majority of people, certainly in england - but i hear noone advocating gaschambers!

this girl's views mean nothing to me let alone offend, but they do to a loud minority of folk who get reported. well i'm offended by religions that insist women are divinely subject to men or that male homosexuals are by that fact evil (not just 1 religion, think about it!). nobody asks me about it.

i've expressed an opinion but never sought physical violence to prove it. i see no reason for the tv to be stopped _by law_ from broadcasting such conversations. if you are indeed offended - write or phone 'em and tell 'em you'll never watch their channel again. we just had a concerted effort at this and so far it's succeeding....

PC BRIGADE HAS GONE MAD AGAIN! LUCY IS ENTITLED TO HER OWN OPINION AS IS EVERYONE IN BRITAIN. PEOPLE MAY NOT AGREE BUT THEN DO WE AGREE WITH WHAT EVERYONE SAYS?!

MULTI-CULTURAL BRITAIN - NOT EVERYBODY WANTS IT. THE MORE I TALK TO FRIENDS/RELATIVES ABOUT THIS THE MORE I REALISE HOW MANY PEOPLES THOUGHTS ARE CHANGING. ESPECIALLY IN LIGHT OF 7/7 ET AL.

NO ONE HOWEVER IS VOICING THEIR OPINIONS BECAUSE THEY WILL BE ACCUSED OF ALL SORTS..... IS BRITAIN GETTING ANY BETTER WITH MULTI-CULTURALISM?...........

#34 Gnasher why would you be desperate to know the company that the twat works for , hardly likely that his employer instilled the views in his daughter or in him for that matter. However sounds like he is a real twat of the first order, using a PR company , kind of points to where his daughter got her views and perspective on life. As someone said maybe working in some of these poor countries in her Gap year would have improved her education at far less cost than the money wasted on her private school.

Compare these two statements:

(1) I disapprove of colonialism: it's wrong for large numbers of people of one ethnicity to move to another country and impose their culture.

(2) I disapprove of mass immigration it's wrong for large numbers of people of one ethnicity to move to another country and impose their culture.

Statement (1) would presumably lead to media approval, whilst statement (2) may be too extreme for what remains of our legal protection for free speech.

There is too much emphasis put on the hot air emanating from too many fantastics!

Last week it was ill educated Jade from England, this week, educated Scottish Lucy. What does next week bring? Welsh or Irish?

It still smacks of a good week to bury bad news.

Awe, Do these people not remeber being 18.....so you can't have an opinion these days? I bet she's not the only one that thinks that lets be honest its only human nature and typical of her socio economic backgroud....I suppose i'm stereotyping now!

“bring back slavery” is perhaps one of the stupidest most offensive comments I’ve heard in a long time!

Of course the reaction is a product of the media-hype that surrounds these shows, which itself (in my view) is a product of some hype by TV Execs looking for ratings!

But having said that for such a comment she deserves all she gets!

I defend the right of young people to

A) Talk rubbish
B) Think they are smarter then their elders
C) Spend their money on rubbish
D) Think they are the first people in the world to smoke Marijuana
E).. travel round the world and wear friendship bracelets
F) Get drunk and put all their grant/hard end money into brewery profits
G) Pay exorbitant rates for average flats
H) Dream of getting on the property ladder with a 150K 1 bedroom flat
I) Listen to complete rubbish from condescending bands
J) Ruin their health before they are 30

Gotta love them.

This is just youthful ignorance resulting from an insular upbringing. My own 17 year old has views that would make Attilla the Hun seem like someone from social services. As parents, we just laugh it off and ask him when is he getting a fitting for his jackboots. Kids tend to see things in an idealistic 'black and white' manner. They grow out of it (most of them) when they get older and get more experience of the real world. Anyway, who cares (apart from the idiotic media)?

Ive been called a "Sweaty Sock" , a drunk , a wife beater etc from a few of our southern neighbours , purely because I was born in Scotland.

Sometimes it hurt because im none of those things, at the end of the day its best to be philisophical and realise that the people saying it are worse off than yourself and are only portraying their own ignorance.

Most "potential slaves" will realise that this is nothing more than a daft wee lassie talking, cleverly manipulated onto TV and into our newspapers by the real assholes of today.. our pathetic media.

When I'm drunk I tend to have sweaty socks and I've beaten my wife..........at tiddly winks! ;-)

She's 18, she has a lot to learn and learn she shall. Nobody is enters adult hood politically correct and without opinions.

#14 slaves are not a race. expressing an opinion is not a crime, I always believed that everyone had a right to express their opinion in this country.

93# what part of this is challenging the girl -
The Buchanans were forced into defending their daughter as journalists descended on the family home.
The comments were the girls not the families.
descending on a family home is out of proportion surely.
Then again you diagree with freedom of speech so what more is there to say.

#63 & #66

I've never seen any comments posted here advocating slavery for English people or colonisation of anywhere by Scotland or anything remotely comparable so no your point is not a fair one just an insidious sideswipe.

We are all slaves, it seems, to reality TV.

Free speech must be defended. No-one will be brought to book for all the things that will be said about this young girl. Regardless of anyone's perception of what she thinks, I defend her right to say it. Who do people think will be influenced by the
witterings of a daft wee lassie? See, even I am having a go at her.

#127

I think the point is that 'Scottish Lucy' has not been educated.

As for the Welsh and Irish . . . . . well both countries produce the best tasting meat in the UK. Welsh lamb and Irish beef cannot be bettered.

Race is a regular hot topic, its sexy and it sells newspapers and now gets the folk tuning in. If you go public with your views, bearing in mind she is 18 and educated, you have to understand that you will take the consequences of your words. Black people all over the world are still on the receiving end of racial abuse....If I had an ancestor who had been 'Strange fruit'......swinging from a tree, way back in the day I might just rightfully object to that statement. I have not actually heard this girl speak these words but I know that her comments were in relation to a multi cultural Britain, therefore I think it is safe to assume she is referring to black people and not whites.....the producers better have a chat with her before she comes back to Britain.

I just think that she needs a right good seeing to - it will knock this nonsense out of her head .

I hope i am allowed to say that.

lac

I would have to disagree with you there. Scottish lamb is second to none and Aberdeen Angus beef is the best beef world wide, especially since we have been shipping Angus bull sperm all around the world for years now and even to Ireland!

http://www.channel4.com/entertainment/tv/microsites/S/shi...

"Q.What's your worst habit?

A. My worst habit is certainly the fact that I don't think before I speak. Also I judge too quickly and I generalise things a lot. For example I hated fat people."

Probably the reason she got on the show in the first place.

Probably her mother is fat and she hates the fact that she will be too.

Sorr to the mum if my quack psychology is not true.

124 : "Basically, colonialism = landgrab by a nation, mass immigration = movement of people from one nation to another."

If the number of people moving is sufficiently large, and if they form a homogeneous population, then it is difficult to distinguish between formal colonialism (i.e. the national landgrab you describe) and mass immigration -- perhaps we should call the latter informal colonialism. To take an extreme example, the mass migration westward from the original Thirteen Colonies of the USA was by no means a formal land grab -- people were moving west in any case -- but the sheer size of this mass immigration resulted in the modern USA. To take a much older example, the migration of very large numbers of Turks into Greek Asia Minor in the 11th century began the end of the Byzantine Empire, and culminated in Greece itself becoming a mere colony of the Ottoman Empire: there was no sharp dividing line between the mass immigration and colonization.

#144, #145 #140. Stop talking mince (Get it).

mmmmm........free speech ??

or have i missed something ?

If she is on a desert island , she might get eaten by the Ooga Boogas.

"Lucy's cut-glass accent and Sloane credentials made her an instant hate figure for the tabloids who branded her "the new Jade"."
Can't quite see the connection suggested above! I don't watch BB or Shipwrecked but what I saw of Jade on the news "Stair heid randy" seemed appropriate.

please ignore my remark at 153.

If it is a deserted island, there will of course be no Ooga Boogas on the island.

That was just6 silly of me.

A recent, perhaps trivial, example of this kind of intellectual ethnic warfare is the popular movie Addams Family Values (released in November 1993), produced by Scott Rudin, directed by Barry Sonnenfeld, and written by Paul Rudnick. The bad guys in the movie are virtually anyone with blond hair (the exception being an overweight child), and the good guys include two Jewish children wearing yarmulkes. (Indeed, having blond hair is viewed as a pathology, so that when the dark-haired Addams baby temporarily becomes blond, there is a family crisis.) The featured Jewish child has dark hair, ears glasses, and is physically frail and nonathletic. He often makes precociously intelligent comments, and he is severely punished by the blond-haired counselors for reading a highly intellectual book. The evil gentile children are the opposite: blond, athletic, and unintellectual. Together with other assorted dark-haired children from a variety of ethnic backgrounds and white gentile children rejected by their peers (for being overweight, etc.), the Jewish boy and the Addams family children lead a very violent movement that succeeds in destroying the blond enemy. The movie is a parable illustrating the general thrust of Jewish intellectual and political activity relating to immigration and multiculturalism in Western societies. It is also consistent with the general thrust of Hollywood movies. Powers, Rothman and Rothman (1996, 207) characterize television as promoting liberal, cosmopolitan values, and Lichter, Lichter and Rothman (1994, 251) find that television portrays cultural pluralism in positive terms and as easily achieved apart from the activities of a few ignorant or bigoted miscreants.

I had the displeasure of watching 15 minutes of this program at the weekend.

Every single person on the show was, what I call, a "Yah".

All middle class snobs of the worst kind. What were Channel 4 doing? ?

this young lady deserves everytning she gets, as do channel 4.

Interesting all this talk of slavery. I was reading the other day that the average lifespan of a child born to slave parents in America was 5 years greater than that of a child born at the same time to a Scottish coal miner. Since my ancesters all seem to have been miners can someone tell me who I can sue for compensation?

Claire , thanks for posting your dissertation on 'Adams Family Values'.

If she's so keen on slavery then why not let her become one. Given that she's volunteering I'm sure someone will take her on.

#158
You could try asking the Queen for an apology. Probably more likely to get one from Tony Bliar though!

Fatboyslim, 108
Interesting that you went to Oxford. Your posting suggests you certainly didn't study English there..

Your reasoning that it's ok to generalise about one group of people (toffs) but it's wrong to generalise about another group of people (blacks) demonstrates you didn't study logic either.

# 103 Graeme from Ghangzhou

TO REPEAT - My point is that you ARE a condescending twit. How many times must you be told?

# 105 Haggismaker from Northern Bohemia

I did make my point/opinion/learned discourse earlier (joke!).

You will probably be VERY busy tomorrow making haggises (haggi? - what IS the plural) for Robbie Burns Day. Have fun.

She's clearly not alone - this thread shows how many scumbags with ridiculous right-wing views we have in this country - makes me ashamed to be Scottish.

156.

I like Hand, or Thing or whatever it was called.

It made me laugh.

Calm Down Tim. None of this is worth the pixels its printed on.

The fact that she was sent to a private school in York tells us a lot,when one considers that Edinburgh has almost 50% of her schools in this category.More money than sense springs to mind and this would still be true if they had no money!

I have no problems with ethnic minorities whatsoever,but I do wish Scotland would rid herself of the middle class Tory bird brains that are frequently found in Edinburgh s New Town.
I wonder if she refers to the many non scots we see in Edinburgh? If so she really is thick.They are called tourists dear,and they are welcome here,but I dont want you back!

I am disgusted to see so many comments supporting this racist and vile woman.

Only an extremely dispicable character could make this comment:

"I'm for the British Empire and things. I'm for slavery"

Everyone with any intelligence knows the methods Britain used to colonise much of the world. Also you need to be pretty stupid to think that slavery is anything less than the most degrading and appallling way to treat a fellow human being.

This woman is scum and will deserve everything that is coming her way on her return.

Does anyone else see a contradiction in the statement "Lucy has been brought up in a loving and caring home" and a decision to send her away to boarding school?

At least this outsourcing of responsibility and childhood nurturing is consistent with the hiring of another third party to sort things out.

so a number of posters believe that the "white" nations are more advanced than african or asian nations?

Er, what of Japan then?

Gap Year?
I think Lucy had best worry about the Gap between her ears.
From what I've heard, Bristol Uni. will be the best place for her.

Regardless of her education, she is a moron for saying those things on TV.

And Edinburgh is home to too many bigoted yahs with English accents.

I blame the parents. Packing their offspring off to boarding schools so they can busy themselves with making money.

Sure, it's a free country but those who use their freedom to stir up hatred of others don't deserve.

158# and yes slavery was done away with before scottish mine slavery.

The biggest worry for me is that it now seems to be open season on anyone who does not share the opinion of the politically correct brigade. No matter how disgusting an opinion is, each individual has the right to hold and voice such an opinion. By voicing opinion, we bring it forth for analysis in a modern and free thinking country. This just seems to be the media looking for cheap stories to fill the pages in between the advertising. Do you really imagine an 18 girl would hold those opinions if she was to sit with a group of people and discuss them? Do we really believe that she would not see the error of her ways? Do we really need to try and destroy a young life by labelling her a racist for some ill thought out and badly expressed opinion. Who's really at fault here? Ask yourself who's gaining from all of this witch hunting rubbish? Is it the very same people who are reporting the earth shattering comments of an immature young woman? How sad have we become when the media sets public opinion rather than reporting it?

Calum Crubag, 174
No hint of the bigot in you then big man!

Irleand import vast amounts of meat from Brazil and on that basis I never touch the the stuff. The brazilians are cutting the rainforest down illegally to raise cattle to sell to the irish who then put it out as irish in EU.
A small stance I admit but then again one starfish thrown back I hear.

"...made these silly and very unfortunate remarks on the back of her excitement at being on Shipwrecked."

Excitement made her come out with this bile? Nonsense. Utter tripe. Keep digging.

Oh dear, this girl has just said on TV what many people in this country think, but are conditioned into not saying in public. Isn't it a shame that you cannot speak your mind these days when it comes to race. If she had said something controversial about disable people, homosexuals, the wee free kirk, or whatever, it may have raised a few eyebrows but would never have received the backlash that a 'racial' comment does.

Remember, 'stick & stones will break my bones, but names will never hurt me'.

Also, with this story we're also going to get the supposed 'have-nots', with their inverted snobbery, verbally chastising the parents of this girl for their choice in sending her to a private school.

Personally , I would love to have slaves.

So she doesnt fit into the state ideology of a melting pot of multiculturalism

Go Girl !

Slavery's alive and well from Dubai to the Balkans, nobody cares.

Good old British banter! The sooner the people of this country and those who choose to come and live here accept it, the sooner we shall all get on to living together!

Freedom of speech!

Remember at school? four eyes? ginger knob?

Sticks and stones!

Take it or leave it!

that old chestnut keeps coming back to me in regard to this. "let he/she/black/white/yellow/pink/blue/gay/lesbian/disabled/english/short/fat/tall/ginger etc who is without sin, cast the first stone". I wonder if the people who die today in Iraq and Afghanistan will get so much comment or column inches in our fabulous honourable press and media?

"All I am saying is that white nations provide a comfort which far exceeds those in Asian and African nations, therefore those races and cultures flock to white nations as opposed to whited flocking to theirs."

Can we assume that Media1 is black, or has Cape Town been transported to Europe?

God Bless you Mary Poppins

I'm definitely interested

Would you whip them and handcuff them???

Well I read about half of these comments (the half that were sensible) before I lost concentration. (seniority thing)
Conclusion; very few "postites" have grasped anything about British society changes over the past 30 years (a very short time in the general scheme of things). The majority would be well served spending a few years living and working in a country where the local culture is the ONLY culture tolerated. (Right down to the dress code)
We in the western world only have ourselves to blame for allowing 'do gooders', to persuade us that we must standby and watch, while other cultures dictate how we must now live.
What was freedom of speech 30 years ago is certainly different to what can be freely said now. (and I don't mean on a tv prog either) Help others to help themselves (yes) but how often must help be given to the same people before they will help themselves. (perhaps another issue)
And for the record all races liked the gollywogs on robertson's jam (for those old enough to remember) as well as the well know nursery rhyme ; BAA BAA black sheep. Beats me why they have not come up with another name for that darkest of colours (what is it called again?)
What is this thing they call 'RACISM'?

Some times the truth hurts.

Rich, stupid and bigoted is no way to go through life. If I had said something like that my mum and dad would have crucified me. Why are they making apologies for her?

Why can't she talk her mind. There are lots of us agree with her. The term racist is overused and it is about the time the CRE accepted that fact

Re 171. Sorry CX (79), missed your more than adequate riposte.

When did her remarks about immigrants become a black/white or europe/asia issue anway. These days if one were to comment about an excessive influx of immigrants, one would more likely be referring to white eastern europeans.

Jings - talk about firing up the debate!

First of all - lets get over the obvious "Lucy is a spoilt brat". This really goes without saying given her privileged background and a public school education.

However should we really be surprised when, as a result of such an upbringing, this young adult (let's not patronise her, or diminish her callousness by calling her a "wee girl" - she has the vote) adopts attitudes which are fundamentally supremacist, not racist.

Somewhere along the way, like many others who are willing to be sop-fed, she has abandoned whatever critical processes she may have originally been blessed with, and has adopted the mantra of her peers and mentors. Where is the intellectual rigour in her arguement? Really she is nothing more than a 30-second sound-bite.

There is a tendency to think that; mindlessness, bigotry and hatred, exist primarily amongst the poorly-educated. Unfortunately these qualities are fundamentally the products of a lazy-mind. A mind which doesn't seek to question and challenge, but which is happy with whatever pap it is fed.

For Lucy, this public discomfort may serve to challenge her views, but the question remains.... Why weren't they challenged before this?

Dougie, if they wanted to pay me money Id be happy to whip and chain them.

Now theres post modernism for you, slaves willing to pay to be slaves.

I better tell you at this point that Im a hetero mail , with a rather stupid name for posing on the Scotsman.

She sounds like a perceptive girl with a mouth as big as most of us wish we had...

The UK is a tiny island, we are only mean't, as are the other nations of the world, to have our OWN cultures and traditions. I am an immigrant myself, and I did not immigrate to the UK to enjoy american, Icelandic, Swiss, Indian, German or indeed any other culture and traditions except British...a nice mix of Scottish, English, Welsh and Irish. We have four extremely rich and ancient cultures and traditions of our own...we should be proud of them and celebrate them rather than trying to be more like another country, culture or tradition.

Remember ourselves, celebrate British cultures, traditions and national pride before it is too late and we are forgotten as a nation. Why is it so right to celebrate the ways of a foreign nation in our own nation, yet racist to practice, preserve and celebrate our own? I'd really like to know.

Free speech is a great thing - what a fantastic post! However, most of it is rubbish as it doesn't coincide with my own thinking. O dear, I've been sussed.

Amazing how everyone has jumped to the conclusion that it was BLACK slavery that was being talked about.
Lucy might have been putting forward the eminently sensible and green suggestion that we use our convicted hooligans and vandals as galley slaves, thus killing two birds with the one stone!
Leisurely cruising holidays, anyone?

200 !

All those posters who are writing to complain about how bad Lucy Buchanan is, let me ask you this, just exactly what would you do if a refuge for asylum seekers was opened next door to you or in your street?
I am not supporting her, but how many of us have our own predjudices against an element of society, the unemployed, Asians, gypsy travellers, gays, single parents, Eastern European immigrants, the English, Scots, Irish, Welsh, Glaswegians and so on, we are all predjudiced against someone, even if we wont admit it publicly.

She didn't state the "correct view" as mandated by the political correctness/thought police.Now they want to brand her as something,i.e.,racist,imperialistic,intolerant,bigoted.You see in this world every one has to labeled.Why we could not tolerate it otherwise!!! How dare we do otherwise!!!

Here is a concept.Why don't we call her what she is.... HONEST

Boy from Oz
Along with several other posters, you seem to have missed the irony of on one hand, generalising those with a public school education as being spoilt brats and on the other hand, condemning bigotry.

Given this contradiction, any mention of a "lazy mind" which does not seek to "question and challenge" sounds especially pompous and ridiculous.

So shes 18 - thats no excuse for anything. If it is then dont bother charging 18 year olds with anything - just let them off as they are obviouslty naive.

She is old enough to know what she is talking about and proof why free speach is good - we all now know she is a Upper Class Racist Bitch. If you like people like that then fair enough but not my cup of tea.

We have a country of teenagers that dont take responsibility for their actions thanks to the PC brigade - She is no kid at 18 she is a grown woman and has to take resposability for the cr/p shes spouting.

There is something wrong when this kind of nonsense is given any sort of newsworthy space--Is this publicity to divert from matters of importance
Are news editors and politicians so terrified to discuss islam and the effects it is having on the uk

Call me paranoid if you wish but it seems very strange to me that the despatches program (ch4)on radical islam has not been given serious deliberation by anyone in government--- has anyone in government even mentioned it???or even the fact of the public debate about the clash of civilisations held in the Queen Elizabeth II Conference Centre, across the street from Westminster Abbey.featuring many prominent speakers
This particular debate was attended by a great number of reporters and was also videotaped--but again the results are hidden fom the general public.
In the UK we seem to be concentrating on frivilous matters like polishing the decks when the ship is sinking

http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/724

Why is there no problem with the integration of all the other religions all the isms and ists--Does nobody wonder why??
Is the government running a BNP recruitment drive

The Evening News is reporting that Bristol University is reviewing their offer of a place to this girl (showing my age).I find that incredible. Don't our cultural institutions have any backbone any more? What she said was wrong by any normal civilised standard (never mind whether its pc or not) but perhaps the civilising effect of a few years at university might be the best answer.

God Bless you Mary Poppins

How terribly disappointing

A thick upper class twit embarrasses themselves on TV? Fantastic. Makes a change from David Cameron i suppose.

I take it the "gap" in gap year refers to that between her ears? Has anyone pointed out that if she's bothered about incomers ruining their country, why did she go to the Pacific? As far as i know the cook islands are not part of Morningside.

What a clot!

I thought that in a democracy there was a right to express one's own opinions without fear of being locked up. This still holds even if the listener does not agree with the views uttered. The only hate comes from those who try to surpress others in free speech.

Waken up you lot.

Regarding # 1
This poster is immediately on every opportunity to pass on his opinion. Whether it is serial murder in Canada or issues in Scotland, he has a posting. He uses the postings to advertise his company. He discourages other opinion. If you disagree, he and his clique of posters become offensive. He continually slag’s the Scotsman. My family over three generations have been employed with the Scotsman, a fine newspaper irrespective of changes in policy over time. A Scottish asset. Why does he not ask "The Real Issue or the Daily Star" to form a web site. Why don’t they all use Scotwebs web site and that way ‘birds of a feather can be boring together”! That way, Scotweb, Scaramouche, Guga, Sheena, plus that individual that hides behind dyslexia but continues to swear, albeit with somas ** and is offensive to all, et al, might clear off. Excessive opinions become self opinions. Nobody in life likes a "smart ass"! Why not ban Scotweb on the basis that he is using your web site for advertising. What type of impression are you allowing internationally of Scotland?

You have to ask the question as to how they have the time to be immediately on every posting. I am not the first to have raised this question.

“Comment etiquette. Do not make an unreasonably large number of postings - the Publisher wants to publish comments from as many different people as possible, thus participants should keep their number of contributions per debate to a reasonable level.”

Regarding #1
This poster is immediately on every opportunity to pass on his opinion. Whether it is serial murder in Canada or issues in Scotland, he has a posting. He uses the postings to advertise his company. He discourages other opinion. If you disagree, he and his clique of posters become offensive. He continually slag’s the Scotsman. My family over three generations have been employed with the Scotsman, a fine newspaper irrespective of changes in policy over time. A Scottish asset. Why does he not ask "The Real Issue or the Daily Star" to form a web site. Why don’t they all use Scotwebs web site and that way ‘birds of a feather can be boring together”! That way, Scotweb, Scaramouche, Guga, Sheena, plus that individual that hides behind dyslexia but continues to swear, albeit with somas ** and is offensive to all, et al, might clear off. Excessive opinions become self opinions. Nobody in life likes a "smart ass"! Why not ban Scotweb on the basis that he is using your web site for advertising. What type of impression are you allowing internationally of Scotland?

You have to ask the question as to how they have the time to be immediately on every posting. I am not the first to have raised this question.

“Comment etiquette. Do not make an unreasonably large number of postings - the Publisher wants to publish comments from as many different people as possible, thus participants should keep their number of contributions per debate to a reasonable level.”

#207. Well said.

212. Beat it, no-one is complaining about you.

On 14th September2006 a white person was driving his vehicle with an engine fault when he had to stop at a traffic light. In order to keep the vehicle's engine from cutting out he had to keep revving the motor.

Two Asians stoped their vechile alongside his and were able to express their hatred of the white race by charging the white victim for revving his vehicle at them in a "Racist Manner"

This white victim of instituionalised race hate was imprisoned in a police cell for two days !!! The article was reported in the Sunday Mail on 17th September 2006 by Russell Findlay.

On 3rd December 2005 the Times ran an article titled: In Britain's Courts does it matter if you are black or white ??? In the article similar decided cases and circumstances of those cases were compared.

If the accused was white the case was racially agrivated. If the accused was non-white then race was not found to be an issue in the murder or assault.

It made a good case for finding that whites do not receive the same level of Justice as non-whites either as victims or as accused persons.

India would not allow other races to immigrate to the extent where each year another council achieves a majority of persons who are not ethnically Indian.

No Black African country would allow immigration to the extent where the the Black Afircan residents of its cities become outnumbered by other race groups. Neither would China nor would Japan permit creeping constructive genocide.

In a hundred years from now India will still be in the hands of Indian people, Africa will still be inhabited by Africans.

Why must we be forced into extinction ?????
In 100 years from now it won't be Scots Law but Sharia Law. There will not be any Celtic inhabitants left in Scotland.

In 15 years time the British Government expects a Muslim majority in Birmingham !!!

Why must we die out because successive British Governments have been p

Is there not something amusing in a poster moaning about the number of posts from a person - and who then posts it twice?!

Everyone who doesn't agree with me - beat it!

As per nearly every posting by # 1.

This poster is immediately on every opportunity to pass on his opinion. Whether it is serial murder in Canada or issues in Scotland, he has a posting. He uses the postings to advertise his company. He discourages other opinion. If you disagree, he and his clique of posters become offensive. He continually slag’s the Scotsman. My family over three generations have been employed with the Scotsman, a fine newspaper irrespective of changes in policy over time. A Scottish asset. Why does he not ask "The Real Issue or the Daily Star" to form a web site. Why don’t they all use Scotwebs web site and that way ‘birds of a feather can be boring together”! That way, Scotweb, Scaramouche, Guga, Sheena, plus that individual that hides behind dyslexia but continues to swear, albeit with somas ** and is offensive to all, et al, might clear off. Excessive opinions become self opinions. Nobody in life likes a "smart ass"! Why not ban Scotweb on the basis that he is using your web site for advertising. What type of impression are you allowing internationally of Scotland?

You have to ask the question as to how they have the time to be immediately on every posting. I am not the first to have raised this question.

“Comment etiquette. Do not make an unreasonably large number of postings - the Publisher wants to publish comments from as many different people as possible, thus participants should keep their number of contributions per debate to a reasonable level.”

Odin, 215
Yes yes yes but look on the bright side - we'll have lots of interesting restaurants to visit

Stuarty purty, having now posted the same thing thrice, you've definitely crossed the "large number of postings" line

This is all getting out of hand. Racism exists in every country and culture and in all walks of life. The PC brigade have made it a taboo subject and people are now afraid to state their 'true' views for fear of being ostracised. Meanwhile the news of prisoners in Scottish jails seemingly involved in a legal action that could stop the Scottish elections in May if they don't get to exercise their right to vote; is 'buried' by this media enduced hate mongering. The 'nationalist' government never thought to take the Scottish elections into consideration while preparing the way to ensure that the rest of Britain can uphold the European courts decision to allow prisoners to vote in the next National election. Or did they? Could this be yet another way in which this 'nationally' unwanted government can delay the will of the Scottish people to determine their destiny?

#218

Nice one Dougie !

If you go to the Kentuckey Chicken outlet in the Princess Street Mall you will see a dirth of white employees.

I thought that this here racial equality thing was supposed to apply in both directions ????

>>Why can't she talk her mind. There are lots of us agree with her. The term racist is overused and it is about the time the CRE accepted that fact<<

Nobody is stopping her speaking her mind. Or you for that matter. But it's only fair to put out to you and people like you that you're small minded bigots, tottaly lacking in basic human decency and I for one would not peepee on you or her if you were on fire.

176
Because I agree with David at Tay does that make me 'countyist'?
As with the editing of BB and CBB - the manipulated and exploititive editing of this 'programme' to take advantage of the current hoohah makes fools of those who are once again falling victim to gutter press triviality. If these issues were raised or voiced on Panorama or Newsnight would they get as much attention - of course not.
Grow up, deal with it with some integrity and intelligence and move on. I despair at the ghastly vindictive hoi poloi whose vitriol at those who are perceived to have money they are apparently not entitled to (most having probably worked d*** hard to earn it) and have wantonly spent it on their children's education, being accused of elitism by those who are ever proud of their inverted-elitist views. Has nobody heard of the Bell Curve?
Unfortunately saying daft things without engaging the mind is a rite of passage for most youngsters - it's the manipulative spin by adult/mature TV editors that is the real problem.

I see there's a fair few barrack room lawyers on the go today. But having read the above posts it appears that if you believe in the freedom of speech then you are a branded a racist bigot by the looney left/PC brigade/mob or whatever you care to call them. Of course I shouldn't say that or else I'll be considered a raging fascist who's going to goose step my way into the nearest small country and clamp the local natives in chains.
I know that we live in this democratic country,well,not quite democratic as it's now a nanny state of the highest order with our Bliar/Broon partnership ordering/dictating/stateing what we can and what we cannot do, say, eat, smoke, think, etc. New Labour my botty,it's the same old Labour party who think that we are all children and incapable of thinking for ourselves or looking after ourselves. Anything that is deemed risky or at the least threatening is immediately frowned upon. The list is endless. What a boring way to go through life.Political correctness gone mad.

So before the tree hugging, tunnel digging, CND supporting, fluffy bunny loving, ozone caring, freedom of speech squashing, save the whelk, ban the bomb, ban the car, ban the aircraft, ban oil exploration, ban carbon, ban this, ban that, stop this, stop that, lefty beardy weirdy's can leap to the defence of a shocked nation. Save your breath,I'm couldn't give a flying flaming f@#$ at a rolling doughnut what some 18yr old dizzy plank said on another daft reality tv programme. Maybe a big tidal wave will engulf the island and we'll all be better off.Another crap programme off our screens.

The idiot box in the corner of your room has an OFF switch. If you don't like what you see or what you hear,then use it. This country is going back to the days of Mary Whitehouse and her "you'll watch what I want you to watch because I know whats best and you don't " attitude. It's back to the Tam Dayell, Ken Livingstone, George Galloway &qu

#224
Better out than in.

Why do we worry so much about an inconsequential off the cuff remark? It was a nothing. Pay some attention to the many things that need attention, such as the mess the UK and the USA left in Iraq and soon, in Iran.

Was in Scotland crisscrossing the country for about 3mths over summer and you could not but take note of the constant radio commercials criticising racism..I think there was a concert planned up coming with Colin Bailey Rae or so... Then it hit me..racism must be an issue in this country else why would the govt go to so great length to pay for airtime to discourage it????
In the Midlands, you dont even hear a thing about that on radio, cause its not an issue...
That lassie is a product of her society - and thats the truth. Come out clean - you and face the truth. You dont waste money advertising doing drugs is bad if no one does drugs. Only when it becomes a menace to society do you counter it.
In my personal views, I think it all bothers on crass ignorance.

Stuarty Purty is either a comic genius or one bad muther.

Yeah, like the British Empire was like amazing and let's face it, like, black people are sort of, like, not amazing and, like, I'm like amazed that, like, there are people who, like, don't think, like, slavery is a good thing. Like the reason my parents, you know, like, they're not rich you know, not like Bill Gates or anything, like, sent me to a really amazing, like, public school in England was because they thought, you know if I went to the local, like, poor people's school that I might turn out, like, a bit thick. You know, like some people think that air head toff girls are, like, a bit "sinister" but I, like, think that they're amazing and should be given their own slaves on, like, the NHS or BUPA or, like, whatever. Anyway the whole thing is amazing and, like, well, that's sort of, like, it!

I see quite a few people from South Africa and Australia on here complaining about the treatment of whites. Oh the irony!
#221 Odin: your case for white supremacy falls down a bit when you can't even spell Princes Street, Kentucky or dearth.And that's in one sentence.Keep it up.

The whole thing(both occurances) shows how little one persons opinion really means. In America we have the right to our opinion. No race was slur'd and no one was called a name. What ever happened to being welcome to you opinion ???

Doesn't say much for private education, does it?

Maybe if the white man had decided to sit on his arse and invent nothing then the lasie in question would not have been on TV to begin with..Hell we would not even have elecricity, or computers to discuss the topic..

The white man is a right bugger. Inventing all this technology whilst he could have been climbing trees and being useful..

#229. Brilliant.Spot on.

I agree with everything Lucy said regarding,
"way too many cultures",and
"Britain is a complete mess. I just don't appreciate people coming into our country and taking over our culture."and
"I'm for the British Empire and things."
And lets call a horizontally challenged person a fatty, they are repulsive don't you think.
I dont agree with slavery though. And I am not a member of the BNP
Lets get back to the good old days of Empire.
Rule Britannia.

No. 10, Bite-back. You are of the opinion that females are inferior to males. However, I reckon most of us know how to spell "too", meaning "also", something you evidently don't.

#230 Dixon: You have no idea!

What is happening in SA will not affect the majority of whites, what it will do is destroy the very fabric of life for the African's though.

http://www.moneyweb.co.za/economy/political_economy/51673...

Slavery has nothing to do with racism. White Europeans were slaves too, remember. It could well be that she is studying a specialist course in economics, bearing in mind the sweat-shop conditions that have moved east from our shores and wishes the UK to return to a manufacturing economy.

If that is the case, it should only taught parallel to a degree in broadmindedness, life experience and diplomacy. The first year would be as a slave.

Where then there is such a difference as that between soul and body, or between men and animals (as in the case of those whose business is to use their body, and who can do nothing better), the lower sort are by nature slaves, and it is better for them as for all inferiors that they should be under the rule of a master. For he who can be, and therefore is, another's and he who participates in rational principle enough to apprehend, but not to have, such a principle, is a slave by nature. Whereas the lower animals cannot even apprehend a principle; they obey their instincts. And indeed the use made of slaves and of tame animals is not very different; for both with their bodies minister to the needs of life. Nature would like to distinguish between the bodies of freemen and slaves, making the one strong for servile labor, the other upright, and although useless for such services, useful for political life in the arts both of war and peace. But the opposite often happens--that some have the souls and others have the bodies of freemen. And doubtless if men differed from one another in the mere forms of their bodies as much as the statues of the Gods do from men, all would acknowledge that the inferior class should be slaves of the superior. And if this is true of the body, how much more just that a similar distinction should exist in the soul? but the beauty of the body is seen, whereas the beauty of the soul is not seen. It is clear, then, that some men are by nature free, and others slaves, and that for these latter slavery is both expedient and right.

Survival of the fittest people, survival of the fittest...Africa languishes behind due to her inferior faculty of mind...Some men are by nature free, and others slaves..

No. 86, fatboyslim. I take it you were not educated in a private school. I was and the many pupils of varied race and religion were accepted without question. We just did not consider either an issue. It is only since left-wing, p.c. do-gooders have found their voice on race and religion that any off-the-cuff remakr on same has been distorted.

#230
Dixon

I apologise for the mispelling.

I really do not have the time to decend to this level however I will afford you the courtesy of a reply just this once

Are you accusing the Times or The Sunday Mail of advocating white supremacy ???

I see nothing in my posting relating to white supremacy only white victimization !!

When someone resorts to name calling and displays a petty adherence to pedantic rules it usually indicates that they are not able to refute the facts presented. In reality a personal attack of this nature reduces the attacker's standing.

In the cases I have outlined in my posting the facts used have been published in the daily papers and can easily be verified by any reader.

The vigour of your defence of what on the surface seems to be a case of racial "imbalance" forces me to enquire if you are in any way connected to the Kentucky Chicken outlet in question ????

she may be wrong in her comments on slavery. But then again, is it not teh muslim invaders to England that are one of the cultures still practicing slavery today? Maybe that is what she fears, maybe it is sharia law that she fears, ecspecially as a female, she will have no Rights if teh new coming muslims get their way and destroy England.

Why does the English press not go after the openly racist, and violent muslim imans that openly preach hate. are the true haters protected in England? Maybe England needs to enslave the haters (ie muslims).

Seems to be the number of posts generated is inversely proportional to the importance of the subject! Hence (to our eternal shame) another British soldier or two dying in our name in Iraq can be ignored!

davey hate begats hate. will you never learn ?

Surely the producers should edit out anything like this before the programme is aired. They will surely pull the person to one side and tell them that they should not use this type of language. If not they asking for trouble. They have all the controversy they want to put into the programme without leaving in the racist remarks that may be made off the cuff.
Alternatively, plenty of people say that Scots are tight with money or Germans have no sense of humour, or French are rude. When does it become racism - surely much of this can be taken with a pinch of salt and that these remarks just make up a tiny part of the patchwork of conversations that makes up our lives. If we carry on like this we will not be able to voice an opinion on anything......

Well, here we are again, the anti-racist and PC Brigade doing its best to drum up trouble and problems for someone via various branches of the media and gross exaggerations.

As for bringing back slavery, let's face it, sadly slavery is very mush alive and well on this planet (and probably will continue to be so for some time) e.g. women from eastern Europe being sold/forced into prostitution.

If it is true that Bristol University are considering cancelling this girl's application for a place, this is also a bit of a surprise (consider the historical links of Bristol with the slave trade, albeit some 200 years ago).

It is also worth noting that many sources of slave labour were African tribes enslaving victims of inter-tribal wars. These poor souls were sold on to Arab traders, then often to whites for shipment to America, etc.

Would the PC Brigade/Anti-racists be kind enough to declare their political allegiance, or better still, which political parties are behind them? The rest of us can then avoid voting for these organisations in any forth-coming elections.

This business of everyone having to watch what they say for fear of causing offense is an offense in itself and an abuse of liberty and freedom of speech. Surely the fact that the police are having to waste time and money protecting Jade Goodies' house is an indication that the do-gooder gang are not so good and are a real and present danger in our society.

Roll on the general Election and down with the PC/anti-racist fascists.

Media 1. Your last post is not accurate. Conquerers make slaves of people. Dissidents are put down to perpetuate control. These kind of rulers are not superior as human beings - they are greedy thugs in power.

I'm with the overwhelming majority on this board. It is utterly outrageous that this level of persecution is attaching to anyone simply because they do not conform to a self-appointed thought police's view of acceptability. Where did these morons come from? Who on earth told them that they had an exclusive claim on morality?

I believe that Lucy should be entitleed to free speech and do not believe her comments were wrong. She only stated the truth. It is about time the country woke up to these things. If a minority person made comments, which they do, about white people nothing would be said.

It is natural enough for the elitist media to focus on what an 18 year old white girl has to say about the havoc caused by the internationalists war against the nations. They have outrage...indeed. But where is the outrage against the Red Chinese?

Like the character of Dickens who thought that you can change the nature of a thing by changing what you call it, the chattering classes readily ignore 'prison' labour; child labour...where were all the bleeding hearts when the sinister Texas corporation was shown to be involved in the white slave trade? Just call it anything but slavery...

Where is the outrage over the Red Chinese and their organ thefts from prisoners...they've even admitted it!! Its OK if they salvage the collagen of poor murdered sods in rural China to fill the thin sinister lips of the savage spinsters of New York, but to actually say something in a private conversation that is so politically incorrect is absolutely anathema!

But...get an 18 year old air head, one of those stupid, trashy, unreality shows, a jackal audience unfit for anything beyond gulping down sugar water, chips, toxic sandwich meats on stale white bread and there it is... a topic before Parliament...something for the UK's most useless eaters to opine upon.

Reality is sorry enough without drumming up a whole lot of nothing over what a teenager says...

When will Queen George release his slaves!! The slaves dying in Iraq forcibly detained beyond their enlistments because he needs them to fight for oil and Israel? But, goodness me, a little girl said something bad about people that the Coalition of the Swilling is busy murdering, torturing, vandalizing, dehumanizing and vultur-izing.

#250 Ken: You can take that up with Aristotle then....But I do believe that certain people by pure nature will always be slaves in a toil and sweat kind of way. I never used to believe it, but I spent 10 years travelling from North,East and West of Africa before finally desceding on South Africa. It was only once my fiancee and I arrived in South Africa that we were faced with the most IN YOUR FACE reality about African's...It was not an easy moment for my fiancee, she is Black and from Belgium and she was totally taken back by what she had seen of Black Africa in comparison to white Africa..

I cannot elaborate further, you really need to introduce yourself to Africa to get the picture...Slavery is rife and ecomonic meltdown, corruption and poverty is everywhere to be seen. Its not a pretty sight and even more worrying is that after 14 years of African rule in South Africa, we are beginning to see this nation go the same way as the rest..

We NEED to ask why and we NEED to be brutally honest if we want to avoid future suffering on this continent.

Reality TV.........Now there's a real oxy-moron!!!!!!!!!

this what the public schools teach the kids good old Victorian values then they go on the run this country god help us .i think the school inspectorate goes in to these schools and get them to rid themshelves of this for in this day and age these remarks are well out of order .freedom of speach is one thing but that is getting close to the way the nazi's way of thinkng.

I think the parents should not aplogize. Freedom of speech. #255 There are no schools that teach Victorian Values, its all liberal values. Just because her personal point of view is not accepted my liberal views does not make her evil.

Casey Purvis # 247. first thing - STOP SHOUTING.
2nd thing, if Scotland is your home then wtf are you living in California ? isn't Niddrie or Castlemilk good enough for you ?

#256
Sorry "Many Liberal Views" , NOT "My liberal views"--Type O.

Jeez the KKK are back at it tonight. Nae wonder this wee blonde airheid's parents are apologetic

This little story highlights everything bad about UK.
A polarized country down ethnic and class grounds.
A gutter media and press waiting to whip it into a frenzy. An unhealthy PC culture. Mix that with the low brow British culture , and here you have a splendid picture of Britain today.

Could not have put it better!!

John The Fifer, 255
The "Nazi's way of thinking" included intolerance of political dissent, public show trials, contempt for freedom of speech and government funded political propaganda. These things are exactly what we're moving towards in this country and all the fuss about what this woman said is a fine example of it.

I'm astonished that the ethnic cleansing of North American native peoples, both in Canada and the United States, can be dismissed so lightly.

I am astonished that 18 and 25 year olds are deemed to be incapable of coherent thought. How old does one have to be to be responsible for one's statements?

I am astonished that because one has had a privileged upbringing, one's racist remarks can seemingly be dismissed with impunity.

I am astonished that blame is being cast everywhere except on the individual concerned.

I would suggest that blaming a television programme for one's racist outburst is asinine. How desperate for attention and "fame" can anyone be to behave in this manner? Or are 18 and 25 year olds lacking in intellect as to what is right and wrong?

Having said that, I ask the all important question: who, in his or her right mind, would watch such drivel much less partake in same?

Freedom of speech, that not so inclusive phrase, which pops up as an excuse in situations such as these, can only be applicable if "freedom of speech" applies to all. It does not.

Message to the tiresome "we hate PC, we love free speech" brigade.

You dislike those who brand this daft wee lass's comments bigoted. You imply that calling her a bigot/racist for saying "bring back slavery" is annoyingly "PC" or "anti-free speech". Let her speak! you say.

But yet....You want the "PC brigade", who you dislike, to shut up because you, the anti PC brigade, are pro "free speech". Let the bigot speak, but anti-bigots, shut up!

Hopefully, you see the sad irony.

Speaking out against what we believe to be bigoted nonsense is an extremely valuable aspect of free speech. Letting numpty bigots say what they want is also valuable because it exposes them, and (we hope) provides an opportunity for them to be challenged.

Callenged with questions like this:
Bigotry comes from fear and ignorance. Which one are you...a coward or a dumbass?

Media 1, 253. My experience of Africa was in '77 or'78 (yeah, so far back I can't remember the year). And it was only 3 months. Surveying part of the Nigerian bush for a new federal highway through Anambra State (the former Biafra). The roads between our house and Enugu were still potholed from the Biafran war and the centre line of the highway was diverted because of a ju-ju hanging from a tree. I was subjected to being on the receiving end of a ju-ju in a village ceremony because I short changed a whore in my ignorance.

Funnily enough, a white South African in Aberfeldy got rid of the ju-ju at a price (his prognosis was astoundingly accurate).

That said, I have never experienced living among such loving, put down people. Africans are as intelligent, able and willing as you, Media 1, but the system they are up against would make the most ardent Unionist cringe in shame.

I was on a perk of 10 Niara a day tax free expenses on top of my hourly rate. The cutters were earning 2 Niara day, full stop. Their western trained rulers continue the system.

Aristotle lived in a time when slavery was the economic norm. Perhaps nothing much has changed since then, but by Christ, only a buffoon would call a subjected country underling.

The difference between racism and just plain old insult is the amount of press coverage it receives..

The young girl is entitled to her views and rightly so..You do not have to agree with her but she is entitled to them...

Ive described Africa and slavery in #253 and I have also pasted Aristotles version of slavery in #241...

Racism is an over used word by people with no backbone and little knowledge of the world at large..It may also be worth noting that they( the ones criticising the young girl) are your worst kind of discriminators in daily life..

It is indeed a sad thing when so young a person is already so insular, intolerant and fixed in her attitudes. By shutting out the infinite diversity of the rest of mankind, she loses out on appreciating the many ways in which we are human. She obviously absorbed a lot of these unhealthy neopolitan attitudes from Mom and Dad as well as from her ultra-exclusive private school, which evidently does not teach tolerance. She cannot be a very nice person to begin with if she acts out such racist, sizist, and elitist attitudes in the first place. No fancy PR sound bite released to the media will change that fact unless she first makes an honest effort to do something about herself. Perhaps, she would benefit from a few visits to a therapist who can help her sort out and overcome her problem.

Truth comes in many shapes and forms, not just in the image of airbrushed, slim, white catwalk models. If that were so, we would have to ignore the wisdom of Oprah Winfrey, Winston Churchill, Albert Einstein, Mother Theresa, the Dalai Lama, Marie Curie, and Mahatma Ghandi, all of whom are among the many great contributors to Earth's world culture and achievement. Despite the fact that some of these were old, fat, non-white, non-Christian, or otherwise non-conforming to superficial aristocratic British or US "cultural norms," even the narrow-minded Miss Lucy Buchanon must acknowledge their astounding contribution to the world community of United Earth.

I had hoped that sophisticated Europeans exposed to multiple languages and cultures would be a bit more tolerant than the insular folks arbitrating American culture and politics at the moment. Evidently, the same gross intolerance of emigrants and foreigners in general exists on your side of the pond as it does among the rednecks and the corporate elites on my side of the pond. People who run the cultural, academic, and political institutions are much at fault in both cases. If those in leadership or who are famou

I see that the British National Party, which is full of self-confessed racists and white supremacists, are "delighted" that Lucy Buchanan said what she did. The BNP seems to have some like-minded people on here who are also happy to excuse her disgusting behaviour.

It's mindlessness to hate someone because they are born a certain way. The choices they make afterward are another matter.

I was over there as a student in '88 and read a newspaper account of a party that was crashed by some criminals who proceeded to carry the host's stereo equipment out the door with nary an effort to stop them implemented. I knew then the 'empire' was in deep trouble. Just like ours.

You Brits and Scotts were stupid enough to turn your guns in to your govt. so you deserve whatever happens to you. And lots is already happening and it will get worse. Just ask the French and apparently the South Africans.

Media 1, You sound like a Lib Dem with your hand to a mighty tome of someone else's knowledge and no practical experience of anything.

#264 Ken M: I am glad to hear you have visited the continent..

I hear what you are saying, but the systems they are up against are of their own doing..Nigeria has been independent since 1960. Thats 47 years and still she continues to toil and sweat..She is by no means the oldest independent nation in Africa, many of them have been independent for near half a century and yet not one has moved forward.

But if we are to give Africa the benefit of the doubt and blame her status on colonialism or oppression..Then what do we say of AFRICA's position prior to colonialism? She had every opportunity to build ships an infrastructure, democracy and an economy. She had every opportunity to write great literary works and map the heavens, yet she was so primitive that not even the horse had been domesticated as a mode of transport, let alone the use of the wheel discovered..

What of that and why?

Well, I had plenty to say, but 262, 263 and 267 said it all for me. Bless them.

If Ms Buchanan really wants to see a return to slavery, she's welcome to come here and give me a hand. Plenty to do and no money to do it with.

#266 here here

Media 1 - you explain why.

I've been around for a good amount of years now, and I can tell everyone that from being a tolerant welcoming country, Scotland has now become one of the most racist back waters on this planet, and it is becoming known the world over bit by bit, remember the english football fans being attacked last year, everyone world wide heard about it, and people will find out about this.

#266, jgrafx. Were you brought up in Boston being told that the American civil war was about slavery?

#270 Ken: Having lived on this continent for near 30 years and travelled it extensively,I have every right to comment on it..

Visit Zimbabwe, Malawi, Mozambique or any African nation outwith South Africa and tell me they are advancing...They are not, they are becomming so de-humanised it is frightening..

I am not going to turn my head and bury it in the sand and say "oh shame poor Africa" No way, poor Africa nothing, she has some of the wealthiest mineral resources known to man at her finger tips yet she does not have the faculty of mind to mine it..WHY IS THAT? It needs to be addressed not swept under the carpet for fear of insulting someone..Cmon Ken, surely you must know that.

#275 Pilrig: I think I already have..

271, Media 1. If the "backward" society I encountered in the late 1970's was anything to go by, they already had an infrastructure in place. It would not have put anyone on the moon but it was fairly harmless to the planet Earth.

I was measuring between mud huts and was told that the villiagers gor 50 niara a hut to get out before the bulldozers came in, and to concentrate on identifying streams across the centreline of the road. I had my knuckles rapped for applying western standards to my work.

Modernisation? We're heading back to what I say anyway. They lived in a stable, sustainable environment with little carbon footprint until the likes of especially you and unwittingly me came along.

IQover50, Canada

I don't want the native population of my country to suffer the fate of the native population of your country. Presumably, that makes me a bigot in your book. However I doubt I'm a coward or a "dumbass".

Freedom of speech requires not that I like to hear what you have to say but that you have the right to say it so perhaps you’re missing the point above posters have made wrt. freedom of speech.

The reality of freedom of speech in Britain is that politically motivated prosecutions have been used to stifle political and academic debate. Similar to life under communist rule, voicing a "politically incorrect" opinion here can quickly lead to arrest, unemployment and even prison. Quite likely, this young woman will be refused entry to university on the basis of the (admittedly crude) comments she made.

I think society is much better off if individuals who think this way clearly identify themselves. Trying to keep these comments down in the press through watchdog agencies will only keep it hidden. Besides, we do practice free speech. It seems that agencies who would ant to keep this off the air are afraid that these comments will take hold on others and persuade listeners to believe them. This shows a lack of respect for our own ability to think and reason. I don't need others to tell me what I can and can't hear for fear that I would believe a point of view that is so dated and stupid that it barely deserves this attention.

And besides, Media 1, you've never mentioned having lived with the natives in your 30 years there (in between stints in Stockbridge, where you don't know the colonies). I can imagine you with your entourage of slaves, all saying, "Hey, Massa, you dash me Kobo for chop?".

What about the Unionist Scots begging for money in Scotland, eh, Media 1? The Union puts them there and you firmly support it.

Aristotle? You must be so superior that you have to spend 30 years in Africa to make yourself feel good.

271.....You seem to know why Media 1 so please educate us....in a less abstract and vague fashion..

Dougie #281 I'm surprised that someone so ignorant as po' lil' Lucy has been accepted by a university, but I suppose that's what happen when you have a wealthy mummy and daddy. Aye freedom of speech rules ya bass. Just think we're about to celebrate a man who penned immortal poems praising the univeral brotherhood of mankind, and a couple of hundred years later a countrywoman of his is pining for a return to slavery.
Whaes like us ? !

Just some questions from a person who lives in a country where there are 4 million of race A and 44 million of race B.

Just what is racism? Is a statement of fact, racist? If your country were experiencing in excess of 20 000 violent murders and 500 000 rapes per year, like my country is, and more than 99 % of these crimes are committed by people from race B, would it be racist to expect people from race B to be potential murderers and rapists?

As for the stockstandard PC Libbers response to the above, which would be that you cannot judge all people from a race group due to the actions of some, my next question is, how would you know then, which of the race group are the potential murderers and rapists and which are not, when they all have the same skin colour?

My other question. Just what qualifies anyone to call another a racist? During my 50+ years the PC Liberals whom I have met have generally, been judgmental, badly informed and ignorant to the point where they have no real opinions of their own but merely repeat PC groupspeak to satisfy their need for social acceptance. Yet, in my experience, PC Liberals are often very free with their allegations of racism. What qualifies such a person to call another a racist?

Ken : You say

They lived in a stable, sustainable environment with little carbon footprint until the likes of especially you and unwittingly me came along..

You are quite correct, but by nature our ancestors were compelled to seek out the secrets to the universe. Not to do so is three quarters of the way to being dead. Through our unwitting way as you title it, we seeked answers to an abundance of questions, we sailed the seas and discovered new lands, we landed on the moon and achieved wonderous things..

Africa is not only a burden to herself Ken, she has become a burden to the world..How much assistance can one continent have? How much aid and attention does one continent require? Why should Europeans be made to feel guilty about not giving to Africa, when Africa offers nothing in return? Her lacksidazical and corrupt attitude to politics and economic growth is deplorable..She must answer these questions.

Here is another interesting fact about Africa..The UN apparently had to drop food from the sky as opposed to landing the plane and distributing it fairly..WHY?

Because the Ethiopian president demanded $4000 for landing the planes..No money, no landing rights! Fack the people, he wanted his money..

#1 scottswebb, there is "very much more to this than meets the EYE as regards this constant bombardment in the media all of a sudden about racism" - this SHOW of indignation. In the first place, all of the terminology we have come to trust in is being misconstrued. Democracy is being confused with mass tyranny, e.g. fascism all over the world, EPECIALLY in America and in the migrant world. The real meaning of democracy implies a public that is well educated so that it can make repsonsible choices for itself - Americans have been completely de-educated largely thanks to conservative mainstream mass media efforts, like Fox news, since the early 80's and the s statistics on Americans who actually complete college degrees match those of third world countries like China. It is no wonder then that its domestic and foreign policies are today complete illogical nonsense. Third world countries that have been decolonized for the purposes of national self-determination have confused global migration - globalism, which is actually a form of imperialism, with multinationalism. Multinationalism can not exist in a one world global culture because distinctions between nations and their cultures and thier laws are destroyed. There is a BIG difference between having a handful of immigrants bring thier cultures to another country to enrich the country and having a barrage of immigrants coming to a country to tear apart its social fabric, its laws and its national identity. A fine line exists between national pride and nationalism; however, the former is being obliterated and you can have neither a culture nor a country without it. Laws have been made in western cultures that were intended to prevent minorities from being victims that are now being abused as race cards in a game for social advancement that victimiizes the "majorities." Very brave to utter so edcuated an opinion on a TV show that is designed for its appeal to a de-educated fascist mass

What more can be said about this most regrettable episode?

Lets move on and let this disreputable programme and its protagonists die of of a surfeit of navel gazing.

May God Bless all who sail in her and all those who profit from her anodyne banality, as she approaches ship like the rocks of merited oblivion!

Ken #285: I reside here because I am passionate about Africa.She is a wonderful continent brimming with potential and in South Africa there is an African economy second to none, which I must employ to my advantage whilst creating wealth and prosperity for those I employ..It is really difficult to explain what living within Africa is like. As I said earlier, my fiancee who happens to be black toured AFRICA with me..She wanted to do it and I supported her. She was keen to visit what was once known as the Belgian Congo( This was due to her being a Belgian) As I said, we had covered most of Africa and seen some horrific things, there was no infrastructures to speak off and then we got to S.Africa! Suddenly we were faced with a stark reality check.Here was a very modernised nation, up to date with all the latest bells and whistles..She had 80% of Africa's roads and an infrastructure which would not be out of place anywhere in Europe or North Amercia..We were gob smacked, how could this be that ONE country in the South of the continent was a modern day wonderland..

And now sadly following 14 years of African rule she is slowly eroding into chaos at the hands of her Mugabe type leaders..How very sad indeed!

http://www.moneyweb.co.za/economy/political_economy/51673...

Jonn #288 Try looking in a mirror.

280, Ken M

I'm not sure why you need to put quotes around backward, African society is clearly backward by any standard. The city of Edinburgh has contributed more to the advancement of human knowledge than all of Black Africa with 1000 times the population. Regardless of whether or not you think it's racist to say so, it's still an undeniable fact.

I'm surprised you found the population of Nigeria to be "just as intelligent" as in Scotland because world renown psychometricians such as Dr Richard Lynn have surveyed hundreds of surveys of comparative studies of intelligence and mathematical achievement. Their conclusion is that the average intelligence levels of Western African populations tends to be around 70 IQ points compared to about 100 in Scotland.

Perhaps you noticed something about West Africa that the rest of the world somehow missed? Or perhaps you're not being entirely honest.

Pilrig, 287
One can only speculate what Robert Burns would have made of modern Brixton or East London. I can hardly imagine a patriot like Burns would have approved of mass immigration from the third world :)

294, Dougie, Would you like to sit an African set IQ test and see how you fare in that?

Comment@290 socialmedic , agreed mate. What is happening is history being repeated but with tweaks......the tweaks being enhanced by the power of technology's ability to get into every home and more or less every form of communication that the true promoters of fascism never had access to 70/80 years ago. Where ever the symbolism of the bundle of rods wrapped round and axe can be found ....so shall be found the peddlers of the Agenda

Media 1. I understand what you are saying. I saw it first hand from the guy who met me at Kano airport when I first landed. I just happen to disagree with it and think that nothing has been done to free the shackles of colonialism from the continent as the present day rulers are still acting like - or worse than the white men who taught them how to divide and rule.

Ken, 296
Modern IQ tests are accepted as being free from significant cultural bias. One of the early people who studied IQ in Africa most extensively was himself a black African. His conclusions were similar to studies from "Westerners".

#296 Ken: Tell you what then..

You list ALL OF AFRICA's achievments in the last 400 years in terms of her contribution to the world and I will list Scotland's ALONE!!!

Then we can speak about IQ..Right, best you start compiling your list of African inventors and literary genius, not to mention scientists and philospphers..

Ken: If the white man IS RESPONSIBLE for Africa's demise(which is clearly not the case) why was she so far behnd prior to the white mans arrival?

AND why in the most advanced infrastructure in Africa are the new leaders heading for catastrophic economic meltdown?

Oh dear, oh dear, 300 comments caused by the rantings of an ignorant uppercrust twit apparently.
a similar number caused by an ignorant tart anc common as clart.
What's wrong with us, jees we are being conned, left right and centre by cynical, moneygrabbing media types, who are laughing all the way to their offshore deposit boxes, come off it you lot, stop giving the the credence they don't deserve. Ignore them, and start discussing issues which really matter.

Media 1, what good has Scotland's inventors done Scotland? Tell me that, then. None. Because we are a subjected people too, with a black hole in our economy.

Ken M 298.
Almost everything I read about African failure seems to mention colonialism. Some interesting points to consider are that colonialism didn't seem to hold back South Korea, Hong Kong and Singapore significantly after they became independent. Also, Ethiopia, one of the worst basket cases, hardly experienced colonialism at all. Colonialism in most of Africa ended generations ago. It's time to invent new excuses.

Well said Arthur 306# you have it in one. An end please to this mutual brainwashing

300, Dougie. How can you test IQ without a set standard in education? Mensa here asks questions which still require a modicum of Latin to answer correctly.

So, Dougie and Media 1? You are saying that blacks are some kind of retards?

#306 Ken: Scotland has an economy, no foreign aid is required, you can for the most part walk in her streets and drink water from the tap, there is ROADS, public transport and architecture over 600 years old, which was built using advanced mathematics 300 years prior us finding the primitive African..

Cmon Ken, you are attempting to protect the unprotectable...Africa is Africa's worst enemy!

Are you?

#311 Ken: NO thats not what I am saying!

I am saying that labour is labour whether it be in the Jungles of Africa or modern day Europe. Why then is certain labour rewarded more than others...Evidently it is faculty of mind which determines that!Africa continues to toil and sweat, yet her output is nothing by comparison to that of Europe because when you marry faculty of mind to modern machinery you create more than those who do not wed the two..

I want to know why she languishes so far behind! But to answer that seems impossible, its like questioning the holocaust or God...its taboo

#295 Dougie - So Rabbie would have approved of the bnp and their kindred spirts ? You're having a laugh !

I'll rephrase to Dougie and Media 1. What is the difference between a Black and Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice?

Ken, 310
I've never done the Mensa test but if it's asking something which requires knowledge of Latin, then it's not a real IQ test at all, much less one suitable for cross cultural comparison.

I'm certainly not saying that "blacks are some kind of retards". What I am saying is that decades of psychometric research by people originating from all over the world with views all over the political spectrum has led to the conclusion that intelligence levels as measured by culturally insensitive tests give differing results for different populations. That's not to say that there are no clever people in certain populations - just that averages vary.

Not just intelligence either. Behaviour, cranial capacity, hormone levels - practically everything significant about humans can all be measured and all differ in different populations.

312. Media i you say Scotland needs no foreign aid and yet you suggest in other posts that he cannot survive without the Barnet formula

317, Dougie. Seems like Hitler's methods were adopted by western society.

Correction - cranial capacity is the same the world over. The last humans whose cranial capacity differed dramatically to modern man were the Neanderthals.

I'm convinced now about Dougie's theory. Look at Glasgow

Ken - 316
Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice are clearly both very clever people. Presumably your point is that they have some African ancestry (although in Africa, I'm pretty sure Colin Powell would be regarded as white).

There is a vast body of easily accessible data of on the statistical differences between the African American population and the white population of America. On average, blacks achieve worse at school, achieve lower scores in IQ tests, are more likely to use social welfare and contribute less to the economy.

US Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.

The important phrase here is "on average". There are still millions of "African Americans" who don't commit crimes, who hold down jobs and who lead productive lives. Good luck to them.

Pilrig, 320
Cranial capacity is not the same the world over. I don't know why you would make such a claim. I can only presume you're thinking if Gould's "Mismeasure of Man". You might then be interested in the work done since by the likes of J. S. Michael or J. Philippe Rushton. There's no serious academic debate remaining that there are differences in cranical capacity between different races. It would be surprising if there were - it's an easy thing to measure. The only remaining debates are about what the differences mean.

Dougie, Heard it all before. Never got an answer back from that Bostonite about whether or not the American civil war was about slavery or not. 100 years after Lincoln abolished slavery the civil rights campaign hit the media. There's democracy for you.

Please, look beneath the statistics at the root cause.

322, Yes Massa

Pilrig - 315
I presume that Burns loved Scotland the way it was then. I doubt he would have wanted chunks of Africa or Pakistan transplanted into the country he loved.

But I'm curious - why is it that you equate opposition to mass immigration with support for the BNP? Do you actually support the displacement of our population by third world immigrants? And if so, why?

Ken - what is the root cause for poor African American performance then? East Asian immigrants in America do better than whites economically. How does the white racism holding back the oppressed African American theory explain why white racism doesn't also hold back Asians?

What's the cause of behaviourable differences in babies of different races within the same country?

How does the evil white colonialism theory explain how South Korea and Gambia used to have the same GDP whereas now, South Korea exports computer?

326. My love has got a broad flat nose, Ive only seen since June.

And my love has got a gospel choir that's never out of tune.

How ridiculous can the media and polititians get? Has anyone spoken to teenagers recently and looked at what they are talking about and their trash talk? The average teenager has no qualms about voicing an opinion whether they believe it or not just for effect and peer reaction.

I would be looking at the school she went to - ask them and the rest of the students there what they think? do some investigative journalism!!. Ask yourself why people are shooting people, blowing places up in the UK - I would think the "indiginous" people in the UK would have an opinion and a reaction on how the country has changed in the last fifteen years - it may be awkward to stomach but it may be the way to figure out how to make a melting pot tolerant.

Sorry, lads and lassies. It's China-historically an amazing civilization-science, technology, mathematics, arts, culture, architecture, exploration. They got stopped dead by pulling in their borders, scuttling their amazing fleet and turning inwards.They didn't realize they were frozen in place until they were invaded by successive bands of barbarian invaders that had developed technical proficiency in war and killing (including the British). And now-they are in a rush to assert their preeminence, The 21st century will be the Chinese century. I don't believe they are classified as caucasian. As an aside, they won't be limited by or to the surface of the planet.

Political upbringing, Dougie, you see the same thing here. They don't want to learn from political masters.

Apart from the handout merchants.

Anyway, let's all vote for Lucy to have 1 year of slavery as part of her learning curve.

Speaking of slavery, all of Scotland has been in slavery to Westminster since 1707.

333, DOugie. Glad you said clicking instead of clucking. That would have been my ex

335. Yes Massa

Of course, we now have the SNP and they say "Heapa"

Ken - I agree that political upbringing is a problem, particularly the Afro American cult of victimology and corruption in Africa. Certainly, we have problems here too.

Regardless of any type of cultural effects however, important and persistent differences between races remain. Some examples - babies of different races mature at different rates, reaction speed between different races exists and persists throughout a child's development cycle, testosterone levels are different (Africans have more than whites, East Asians less). These are all things which can be measured accurately and easily in a controlled experiment.

"Glad you said clicking instead of clucking. That would have been my ex"

Ach well, you cannae blame them, it's all in the hormones :)

Dougie. Think Nadal and Murray. Nadal was older than Murray is at 19. But that happens here too. I was one of the last of my year to get pubes. And even by a couple of years. The body can mature at anything between 17 and 22. The mind is maybe linked to that and outside influences. I'm 57 and still maturing mentally.

Ken, the point I'm trying to make is that there are important measurable differences between average statistics of different racial groups. Some of these differences may be influenced by culture, I was merely using maturation rate as an example of something that is unlikely to be largely explained by cultural difference (ie. the cause is genetic).

"Multiculturalism" as currently flogged by the "bien-pensants" is all one-way. Anglos have to go into a defensive crouch whenever some other ethnic/cultural/religious group claiming victim status is "offended."

When do we get to be offended? Never, of course.

It's not rational. Example: The very same people who say the Indians were entitled to resent the British living in India, even After independence, will say the British aren't entitled to resent the Indians in Great Britain. Illogical!

It all comes down to numbers, seems to me. Most societies tolerate, even enjoy, the presence of people from other places and backgrounds, at least until those folks' numbers threaten to overwhelm and displace the home folks. Then it's only human nature to want to push back. Again, the PC folks are all for Other people pushing back, just not Anglos. Everyone else is Encouraged to exhibit "ethnic" pride. Everyone else is Praised for starting groups and foundations that cater only to their own race. Think of the howls of outrage that would go up if Caucasians dared to do this! Dominican Pride parade? Great! the mayor will Be There, beaming for the cameras. Anglo-Saxon Pride parade? "Racist!!"

Yeesh.

And the more they keep this One-Way multi-culti stuff up, the more they'll drive people into the arms of groups like the BNP, SNP, and Le Pen. They'll have only themselves to blame.

MeadowLark #231: In this fair country, you can't even say "a spade is a spade" any more! So much for freedom of speech. If another poster says "here in the United States......" and goes on to lie through their teeth, I'll scream!

Every comment anyone disagrees with is now labelled "racism". What a load of nonsense!
I quite agree with Miss Buchanan - there ARE far too many cultures in Britain - and society here is suffering for it.

Gee! you can use the "F" word here?(and I got ** for using "bastard") no matter, all a "lark".

#191 Robbee, right on! Parents do imprint much of their children`s social thinking.
(NOT all, of course, when they are older..peer pressure plays a part) It this case their opinions are now returning, via their daughter, to "bite them in the arse" with embarrassment.
(Good on them)
Cheer up! The U.S.A. has " Paris Hilton"
now YOU HAVE A "HOME GROWN IDIOT"in Britain

crap..the whole lot of it!

hmm.... I wonder if Miss Lucy thinks she'd be the slave or the owner?

Channel 4 ought to consider a new show: put her, Jade, and other such charmers in as slaves in Ancient Rome (slightly more humane than other types)

Geeze!! I like the girl and her opinions.... She could be our leader.. Whats wrrong with having a few slaves?..they could black,poles english or even a few economy jew ones would do.....

she is the daughter of the Buchanans from the
New Town - enough said.

#330, mildred "And now-they are in a rush to assert their preeminence, The 21st century will be the Chinese century" Thank you for your RACIST post Mildred. European imperialism is not OK, Chinese impserialism is OK, the Chinese are SUPERIOR RACE after all?????? A British girl from a private school in the western world has no right to comment about the effect of a so-called multiculturalism happening to HER country which is not about multi-culturalism in the first place, but this poster can come on and CLEARLY assert her clearly RACIST views regarding the natural PREMINENCE of Chinese people - and this we are to take as not racist. The Chinese are totally and utterly immune to any charge of racism. This is what I call, and I have seen so much of it in recent years that I have coined a prase for it:::: Post Colonial Chinese Imperialism. THIS ERA, like it or not, is supposed to be the POST COLONIAL ERA, madam, so I invite you to send your uneducated, politically INFERIOR Chinese race back to China. Do tell us if we are wrong, for if colonialism is, in principle NOT wrong, as you claim for the Chinese, then perhpas Europe should set about RETAKING ALL of its former colonies.

ENOUGH ALREADY!

I cannot stand the "I am not racist but" brigade
Who have got an asshole for a mouth, as cack of the racist variety comes out of it after they say there clichéd catch phrase.
I feel like saying but you are racist to them.
Jade goodie is an honoury member of this tribe of Britain who will have t-shirts made of her in due course. I found it so funny when she said the classic statement for her tribe when she said that I am not racist but I admit that was racist statements I made

Hopefully the police will be waiting for her when she comes off the island and she will be charged with racially aggravated behaviour. I'd also like to see her charged with anti-gay offences as well.
Fatboyslim....slime like you are as bad as the racists. However, you are just uneducated and xenophobic...and clearly fond of stereotyping, a bit like the privately educated waste of space that we've all been writing about. Frankly anyone who lists shooting as a hobby doesn't deserve to live in a civilised country. Thank God I went to a comprehensive school and only managed a 2.1 Honours degree from Edinburgh Uni and a postgraduate qualification from Dundee Uni.

Latin would make the plural of "haggis" into "hagges".

As a more extreme thought, a people who eat haggis, the "haggis eaters" might to a Roman general be reasonably known as the Hagges.

Afraid I equate it with Kittikat,Pal,tripe or pig's trotters ... yuk!

FaT BoY Im not racist BUT.... I would fight for the right of anyScot to have their own Opinion even if I disagree with it...without it we have NO Freedom of Speach.. We can Prattle all day long just as long as we say all the Politically Correct things of the day....

FatBoy... its not Enlightenment... Merely a fashion we go through.

helen
you have no sense of humour and i am not un educated i got a 2:1 from stirling just i cannot be fecking arse taking you lot seriously

#10 Bite-Back:
> "...men are far to clever for these kind of things..."

Ya think so? Women's studies programs at major US universities teach in their textbooks that women are:
- victims of a male-dominated society
- marriage is an instrument of oppression, and
- fathers are foreign male elements

An Independent Women's Forum came to this conclusion after reviewing a long list of course outlines and their most widely used textbooks.

Is there any wonder why we're so freakin' loony! I've no respect for men who keep silent and don't fight back. We're fed up with the PC lunacy. It's destructive and this girl knows it. She's losing her culture and her land. This girl speaks her mind, however ineloquent, and it shows COURAGE.

> "Buchanans were *forced* into defending their daughter...Mr Buchanan is understood to be an IT executive while his wife, Nicola, is a former model."

Just look at why Lucy's hated and what these parents are expected to apologize for—everything except for being white it seems!
- cut-glass English accent and Sloane credentials
made her an instant HATE figure
- hobbies lacrosse and shooting
- loving and caring home
- advantages in life (normalcy?)
- cosseted (cherished and protected?)

Let's put this in perspective because it could be worse. She could be out slutting, drugging or binge-drinking. What's a teen-age girl to do these days. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Rather than shut her up, I'd like to hear her views on slavery. Maybe she knows something I don't. And while the stone-throwers are being so sanctimonious, let's remind ourselves slavery and human trafficking is a very real horror. But don't forget to ask yourselves which cultures practice it today and why. Hint: It ain't Australia, Britain, Canada, Ireland, NZ or the US.

Maybe Fergus Sheppard and the rest of the saintly media will writ

Women have their Assets yes Indeed

Most people in the Western World would agree with her comments. Are they racist? Of course not! Multi-culturalism didn't work and won't work. That is why the UK and Europe are in the mess they are now with our muslim bombers, oh sorry, brothers. Her comment on slavery was a bit much, but then again she was probably on a rant and just wanted to stir the pot a little.

There is nothing wrong with what this highly educated girl said. If any of you had a quality education you would agree with her.

Come on folks, everyone has the right to free speech, and this cannot logically be considered "stirring up racial hatred". It's a tv show for crying out loud, and my thought is this; Way to Go Lucy!!! I love the comment about lesbians.

Her Comments are not so surprising, for persons
that want servants. But the first thought that
came to me was..." How long before she is
buddied up to Paris Hilton."

364 Milt.. Your post...my good man, you may claim the PRIZE.
Being an "Educated Gentleman " will NOT state for what field .

Free speech. No longer allowed here, either, even though it's constitutionally guaranteed.

It is still legal to deny the holocaust, although certainly not fashionable, and it won't land you in the hoosegow as it will in some countries. It will cost you many dinner invitations and possibly your job.

I must admit that even though I have known quite a few white racists over the years I have never heard anyone suggest that it would be good to bring back slavery.

The young lady probably believes that the British Crown ought to assert sovereignty over the American colonies as well.

I'm old enough to remember the dissolution of the British Empire in the years after WWII and based upon my, somewhat biased although not racist, observation would say that a great many people were a lot better off under the governance of the Empire than they were immediately after independence and, indeed, until today.

Being free of an outside government is not the same as being free. Many people in former colonies are a good deal less free today than they were under the British Empire. I'm sure that most of them did not expect to get the governments with which they have been saddled (by which they have been saddled?).

And, yes, it does regrettably appear that slavery is alive and well in many places in this 21st century.

I agree with the person who pointed out that most of us, as we age, and gain experience no longer see things as we saw them at 18. Which is why I was against our federal government forcing the states to accept 18 instead of 21 as the legal age for voting.

In reality what this young lady has expressed is just an immature and unconsidered viewpoint which she, doubtless, will regret as she matures.

And the press has little desire to report upon anything which won't inflame many after some fashion. In fact it seems that they're called "the press" because they make the oil to pour upon the flames.

A

356. Helen- "Frankly anyone who lists shooting as a hobby doesn't deserve to live in a civilised country."

Another extremist who has no idea that the little freedom she has left was given to her at the end of a gun. If we had listened to the likes of you in World War II we would all be speaking German or now. You make me sick.

Thank you 360 Branda Arizona:

"Maybe Fergus Sheppard and the rest of the saintly media will write another article and enlighten us stupid whites on the subject of slavery. Most likely they'd prefer to reach back and collect the sins of Euro history rather than bring us up-to-date on current atrocities."

Being an American of 8 generations on my fathers side whose ancestors founded a city in the United States in the company of 60 slaves I can tell you that I NEVER hear the end of it. Never is there any talk about what slave wage labor TODAY actually means. NEVER is there any protest against it by people who emigrate from countries where this is PRESENTLY going on. I personally had said to me, once, at Harvard, as a Harvard student, by a Chinese student that it is OK for the Chinese to imperialise the USA, after all, "WE" did it to the Indians. I didn't bother to mention that my presumably "racist" grandfather, many generations since, married a woman who was very possessed of Cherokee blood. Such is the state of the racist presumption of these immigrants that they could utter such ignorance in the face of Cherokee blood which clearly they themselves have NO problem imposing upon. Ask by force of what economy THESE students afford to cross the world and attend one of the world's most expensive and prestigious schools - I was appalled by such an attitude as I was by other members of the student body living in my dormitory who insisted in my face that wealth was not destroyed in the civil war and basically accused my family of hiding money. We are truly nothing but an excuse to fall back on for opportunists to commit their own atrocities in the world.

it would seem her schooling lacked any teaching in basic intelegence,
We can all have opinions as to the state of the nation or veiws on migration policy etc etc etc.

However most people with an IQ larger than their shoe size have the ablity to apply some wisdom and keep the mouth shut unless brain is working.
Even at her tender age,
No doubt methinks,
This episode will futher her education somewhat.

LV Scot #368.

No doubt the Tasmanian Aborigines welcome the arrival of the British Empire. oops , I forgot they don't exist any longer, having failed to survive the White Man's burden !
Never mind, at least there's Scotland - last bastion of the Empire !

Has this spoilt bizarre thinker thought of how many countries British people have moved to in just the last 150 years? Does she want them all back? There probably wouldn't be enough room!!

40 Media 1, slavery was not an "African invention". In ancient times all rulers had slaves, including the Romans, or had you conveniently forgotten about that? And do read "Islam's Black Slaves", the sooner the better. And Asia is responsible for many of the "technology" that you say came from Europe and America.

Why should she apologise? If I were her Dad, I'd be proud as punch of a girl with the guts to tell the truth. Nobody ever invited multicult immigrants to the UK. Half a dozen per city would be fine, but ten million, or even one million, too many.

She can, anyone can, say that they feel there are too many immigrants in Britain, fine, that's "free speech", but to imply that slavery is acceptable, and preferable, is quite beyond the pale!

Nice one 264, I hope people read your post more than once. Africa is still impoverished as a result of things like slavery and colonialism, not that the situation is helped by megalomaniacs like Amin was and Mugabe is. Now it's not people who're being taken out of Africa into slavery, it's Africa's resources that some other countries want. I wonder why Media1 is still in South Africa anyway, with his kind of thinking he should get out quickly!

YO! FATBOYSLIM, YOU KNOW WHERE IT'S AT FO TRUE!

Yes She made a mistake on the Slavery issue but hit the nail on the head with the rest
If people are going to come live in Britain , they should follow our culture - whatever that is !!!!
I see that school lessons will include BRITISHNESS

Maybe in a couple of generations time , the melting pot will equalise things

Scottie 375
"Africa is still impoverished as a result of things like slavery and colonialism"

Hong Kong and Singapore suffered exactly the same colonialism. Why then is Africa so backward in comparison?

300/Dougie - IQ tests are not generally highly regarded or accurate as a means of testing someone's intelligence.

Colin Powell wouldn't be regarded as white anywhere.

378, what mineral resources did Hong Kong and Singapore have? And the colonialism was hardly the same - of which countries (plural) were they colonies and for how long? Africa was being fought over by various European countries for a long long time, just look at the very odd borders in Africa that exist today! Take Kenya and a certain mountain as an example. Oh and how many of their residents were taken as slaves? There were entire villages that were totally depleted of people in Africa, which never ever recovered.

I think this whole mess can still be salvaged. Here’s some suggestions:

- Lucy’s St Peter's School in York could bring in Reverend Al Sharpton Jr., Tawana Brawley, Durham County District Attorney Mike Nifong and Crystal Gail Mangum to lecture all the cosseted little racist, homophobic white simpletons on the issues of race relations, diversity, and spiritual at-one-ment.

- Lucy could become Miranda Prather’s pen pal.

- Lucy could promise to host the Vagina Monologues when she begins her education at Bristol University.

- Lucy could request a lifetime subscription to BBW magazine.

- Lucy's parents could donate to The 1990 Trust and to the Gay and Lesbian Humanist Association.

- Lucy could blame it on her father’s patriarchal influence or say she’s a victim of a white male-dominated society.

- Lucy could blame it on Christians and actively campaign to ban or criminalize Christianity.

- Lucy could join hands with Goody and sing Kum Ba Yah.

- Lucy could say she’s a fan of Michael Moore and Stupid White Men.

- Lucy could humbly apologize and admit she’s a white blight and deserving of 40 lashes.

- Lucy could say she's signed up for the next Sensivity Training workshops.

- Lucy could say she studies the Koran.

- Last but not least, Lucy could just blame everything on Americans.

Any one or all of the above would satisfy the media and all the guilt-ridden, self-loathing whites.

Branda

#369 Renfrew Rant

Don't waste your time on Helen. She wouldn't know anything about Trap, Skeet, or Sporting Clays—just that someone told her that people with guns are evil.

Branda

James, yes, Africa is plagued by war lords but societies tend to get governments which reflect their own culture.

The only way we as westerners could solve Africa's war lord problem is with exactly the thing we're condemned for - colonialism. That in essense is what you're advocating by suggesting international (ie. Western led) troops go in to fix African problems. The folly of assuming that primitive cultures will be able to run a decent society on their own is being demonstrated right now in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's hard to imagine many people in this country want more commitments like them.

Scottie, 380

IQ tests may not be perfect just as a running race is not a perfect measure of fitness. IQ test results may vary slightly from individual to individual but as a means of measuring a population as a whole, they're an excellent meausre of intelligence. It goes without saying that there's a very high correlation between an individual's IQ score as measured by an IQ test and scholastic achievement. Also, there's a very high correlation between a country's average IQ as measured by tests and its level of economic development. Other factors are important, certainly, but IQ is far too important to ignore.

Even some African governments agree with this and accordingly are attempting to raise the IQ of their populations by improving nutrician.

Of course Hong Kong and Singapore don't have any mineral resources. They're richer than Saudi Arabia DESPITE not having mineral resources.

It's facile to assume that all African countries had a worse experience of colonialism than Asian countries. South Korea suffered particularly nasty colonialism under the Japanese for two generations. Ethiopia was colonised only briefly (by Italy). South Korea is now making computer chips, Ethiopia is still asking for aid money. By far the richest country in Africa is the one in which whites ruled the longest.

Slavery existed in Africa long before the whites arrived, it exists still and it will exist for a long time yet.

For Africans to blame colonialism and slavery for their modern problems makes about as much sense as for me to blame the Duke of Sutherland for mine.

Still progressing on this item?

I watched Big Brother last night for the second time. I have no way of saying anything positive about the programme or about the idiots like me that make an effort to watch it and the extroverts and freaks that are so keen on participating on the show.

There must be millions like us judging by the keeness that the advertizers show for Channel 4 who peddle this parody of 21st Cetury culture!

Would you buy anything advertized on the back of this crap?

I'd rather sit on the beach at Brancombe any day.

Thank you so much Branda in Arizona (381). Along what route will we in the West travel back from this mess, one wonders?

Having weakened our own position in the world to such an extent, via the irresponsible self-indulgence of that vast mass of unconscious converts to the broad political left, so much more the puppets of a now defunct Communism than they imagine, how radical will be the eventual reaction to these self-inflicted taunts and laying oneself and one's society bare to the onslaught of their avowed enemies? Do these people imagine that those they seek to 'reach out to' are somehow hallowed human beings, incapable of hatred? Do they not realize, for that matter, how smug is their implicit assumption that their own superiority renders them immune from harm, or the hatred of those they imagine they want to embrace? The people they reach out to don't want a bar of them. They instinctively react against their smug sense of charity, their unconscionable weakness of character, their betrayal of their own sense of identity, and the unnaturalness of unworldliness of self-destruction.

Miseducation by the left has turned strength into weakness, without turning strength into tolerance. It is a frail and unhealthy way to approach the world. Its effect has been the opposite of its avowed intent, because it is founded an effete frame of mind.

Andrew

Arthur was right, race rows are good ratings, the young miss will have either read from a cue sheet, idiot board, or been manipulated into saying it by the "cinema verite"

The debate is alright though, so long as no one is daft enough to watch the show.

384 - oh wow, 2 whole generations of colonialism for South Korea!! Try a couple of centuries in the case of many of Africa's countries!!

Ethiopia may only have had Italian bosses for a while - but prior to that their wealth (which was huge) was taken from them by the Muslim invaders.

And a high IQ does not mean great scholastic achievement, nor is the converse true.
They are being recognised as not of much good in 'general'. You said 'country's average IQ' etc - you reckon that someone who's in rural Gabon but has not gone to high school cannot possibly be as 'intelligent' as someone who went to school in Nairobi or Cairo or Windhoek or Cape Town? Give him the same education as this Lucy got and then compare them. And that's not even considering how much better children do when they're fed properly. By the way, when did your Hong Kong and Singapore last have crippling droughts for years on end? (That have a far longer effect than floods)

Remember Pakenham's 'The scramble for Africa'? Have a look at the new scramble for Africa whilst you're at it.

388 (Scottie): "And a high IQ does not mean great scholastic achievement, nor is the converse true."

IQ researchers believe that they're correlated, not that one implies the other. There's an interesting short introduction by Ian Deary, professor of differential psychology at Edinburgh, published by Oxford University Press.

Scottie, 388
Netherlands and Germany also had famine within living memory yet their average IQ scores are (slightly) higher than in Britain! Many European nations eg. Poland, Finland, Estonia, Ukraine also suffered foreign colonialism for hundreds of years.

Certainly, standards of education and nutrition in Africa are low and this must have a detrimental effect on IQ scores you should not assume there is a unidirectional relationship between environment and the people who live in it. South Korea does well in maths and their good education system is obviously a factor in that - but they built that education system themselves. Similarly, nutrition in Japan is very good but the Japanese themselves built the economy which feeds them.

Another consideration is that people with African ancestry collectively do poorly all over the world even when nutrition and education facilities are very good such as in the USA.

Certainly, Arab invaders have devastated East Africa (and continue to do so). They tried to do the same to Europe but eventually, the Europeans repulsed them. Had Africans been able to reach a higher level of civilisation, presumably they should have been able to do the same.

Nobody is claiming that IQ test scores are a perfect measure of anything however the remarkably high correlation between national average IQ and GDP (over 0.5) suggests that the very low IQ scores of most African countries should not be ignored as an explanation for African poverty.

Yep dougie, Africans haven't yet reached the acquired state of maturity to build places like, say, Auschvitz yet !

Pilrig, the Rwandans seemed to manage the same result quite successfully with a lower level of technology.

Key Quote by David Buchanan: Is typical of the spineless and pollitically correct jerks who infest societies like England. He's a hypocrite.

As for 18 year old Lucy Buchanan, its OK for Blair and Bush to send 18 to 24 years olds to IRAQ to be killed by religious freaks.
But its not OK for Lucy to speak her mind . What hypocrisy is that

I agree with Lucy when she says Britain was home to "way too many cultures", adding: "Britain is a complete mess. I just don't appreciate people coming into our country and taking over our culture." "I'm for the British Empire and things etc etc.
Keep it up Lucy and ignore the masses of spineless hypocriets who assail you.

#309 Dougie. Right on man you hit the nail on the head.
One gets sick and tired of hearing about the have nots in palces like Africa.
How about the Irish who survived famine and were attacked relentlessy for 700 years by the English.

The Irish fought back and got on with their lives . They are not like the whinners you find in the African countries who are riddle with vicious tribal costumes.

Even here in the US when the Irish were treated like annimals they fought back . But not the so- called African Americans they keep on whinning.

But I do not agree with slavery even though our Capatalist societies allow it to flurish under the guise of cheap or child labor.
To swell the profits of the large Corps and their masters.
Lucy Buchanan don't give in to the spineless hypocrites.

GC

One more thing for Lucy Buchanan. Even though you are a young 18 year old woman. Look how you rattled the cages of these spineless hypocrites who assail you.
Think about that, they are so insecure, the poor whetches

GC

#388 Scottie,

Me thinks the Africans have never heard of Dams, of pipe lines of pumps of water ways of hard work.
If they had they would harness the vast resources of river water on the African Continent.

Instead they whine about drought and engage in their vicious tribal war fare.

Give us a break man.

We have all the world cultures here in the US.

But guess which culture claims the biggest share of the freebee US Federal hand outs, its the so called African Americans.
I have no idea why they are called African Americans.
They are Africans the same as I am Irish but we all live in America as Americans.

Another thing they are the biggest whiners of any group in America...get over it.

GC

RE 395, you are mistaken sir, the single group entity that receives the fattest welfare checks from the government may have been the military INDUSTRY, which failed to include the ground forces, aparantly, but we can now add to that the OIL industry, and companies like Enron, etc., etc., etc., and I do believe in that, all races are implicated.

391, pilrig, thank you! It is about time someone challenged the superiority of mass culture. If Aushwitz was the high point of European fascist industrialst culture, you can imagine how bloody ugly things will get when nations numbering in the billions decide to assert their racial "preeminence."

#386 adboughton, as to your "mass of unconscious converts to the broad political Left," where are they? Were they the cost slashers in the last 30 years that lead to the outsourcing of the entire manufacturing sectors of USA and abroad? Did THEY lead USA to vote for Ronald Reagan in the early '80s by the pied pipers of media manipulation, neo-cons Coors, et al in Colorado? Were they the ones who voted for Bush Sr. and Bush Jr, twice? Perhaps they were the lefties who ran for office on right wing political platforms, the public too media brainwashed to hear anything else? Did they cry "pull" on Sept. 11? Were they the ones in European countries like Italy who brought to power right wing industrialists cozy with Bush? Are they the owners of Fox news which now calls and controls all the political mainstreammedia shots, while the rest of the media blindly follows? And does it world-wide? And Australia has made a left turn all of a sudden has it? You are misinformed sir. GLOBALISM is not a vehicle of the LEFT. It is the army tank of fascist RIGHT WING capitalism. Those coming in from the outside are not pandying to the left with thier phony show of moral and racial superiority as "harder working and family-er" than all of us "lazy, undeserving, slobs" in the West. It is the to RIGHT they appeals. THEY puppet whatever political side has power and they think we are too stupid to ever figure them out. The OLD left never supported the WANTON population expansion in the third world and its dispersal of migrants all over the world to hide thier numbers. It is the RIGHT WING that breeds, fights family planning, imperialistically expands, and abohrs population CONTROL because it interferes with the deliberate breeding a surplus of labor to drive down the price. It was Karl Marx who criticized the labor practices of England in the early days of the industrial revolution in his Critique of Capital, not the Fascist Man

#396 social.

99.99% of the time I relate and rely on facts.
There is no such thing as 100% facts.

Facts like measure are not absolute.
There is no such thing as 100% accurate measurement.

And when you speak of US Military industry, these people by and large WORK or get killed for a living BEFORE they put their hands out to collect a federal Freebee.
Not so the vast majority of Africans who live in America do the minimum work, statistics show that to be the case.

In the 2006 US Federal budget, 32% of every taxpayer's dollar was spent on US Military 4% on US Education.
Yet our US Government has no idea what % was given out on freebees to lazy people.

Go down to New Orleans with your digital camera and see the level of destruction that remains two years after Katrina hit the City. Ignore the Federal $billions give to the City in Freebees

Then listen to the residents, the Africans who are Americans whining about freebee hand outs. Why don't they buy a hammer and nails and wood (lumber) and star working.

No I am not a racist but I cannot stand hypocrisy.

To me people are just people with different levels of social skills and intellect etc. Some live in countries ruled by tyrants some in countries ruled buy elected spineless politicians. etc

But a historical pattern indicates that certain cultural groups including the residents of Africa lack the desire to get off their arses and do work instead of whining all the bloody time.

Go to Shanghai CHINA and visit the Shanghai slums. You will see poverty stricken Chinese working their arses off, to move up and on.

When they needed more water to fuel their 10% per year growth economy they built the world largest dam, “Three Gorges".

They DON'T Whine.

In Africa you have the some of the World's greatest rivers.

The Nile, the Congo, the Zambezi, the Niger.
With all the water the people there would need to m

#389, Fairfax 388 (Scottie), agreed; standardized exams are also too blindly trusted for placement. Thank you for the source: Ian Deary, professor of differential psychology at Edinburgh, published by Oxford University Press.

#25 Media1, your post is very misleading and historically inaccurate. First of all, neither America nor Australia are historically white. There were indigenous people already dwelling there. They may not have been "white", but that does not make their occupation of those lands any less valuable. This leads me to my next point: You tout these great accomplishments of the "white countries", but you did not mention HOW these accomplishments came to be. How about bringing up the annihilation of native Americans or Aborigines? Or the complete exploitation of Africa by British imperialists who forced black Africans from their land in order to get their hands on the natural resources and pump them into "white" countries? Oh...and add in the embargos placed against African nations to block them from controlling the trade of THEIR OWN goods. To sum it up, what kind of shape would you be in if I went into your home, robbed you of EVERYTHING valuable, then locked you in there so you could not leave and acquire more goods for YEARS?!? Not very good shape, huh? And how would you feel if, after robbing you, I ran around and touted about how all of my wealth makes me better than you, because it's obvious you can't get your act together. I wouldn't be telling the full story about how I got my wealth, would I? Take a look at South Africa. Does apartheid ring a bell? My point is this....if you want to tout about how great "white nations" are, tell the WHOLE story. It wasn't simply that "white nations" were just smarter, or worked harder, or the culture was better. "White nations" robbed, exploited, killed entire populations, displaced communities, and subjugated entire races into slavery to get ahead and never look back. What is so infuriating is that "white nations" got to where they are through some underhanded and downright SICK measures, yet they want to sit around and act like it was all ju

Dougie #392 The same result ? half a million in Rwanda against 6 million in the 3rd Reich.
Aye, that's European supremacy for ye !

Certain currently well used 21st century commonly used words and terms are so tiresome, celebrity, racism, human rights, Blaire, motorbike ashtrays(equally usefull), adoption by gay couples, secular society, lack of prison places, education education education, failing local arts complex, waste of public funds, increased hidden taxes, richness of multi culturism, obscene increase in MPs salaries, life imprisonment with a minimum of 7 years??.
Is it me? Am I on my own because it makes me want to puke and advise my daughters to remain childless or find a place and emigrate.

# 399 I wonder if Lucy went to the same school as you ?
Erin-go Bragh, by the way !

David #403 : It's Brum mate, better getting oot the place. But don't emigrate to California or your lassies might end up with the same schooling as Galatic cannibal.

#399 GalacticCannibal, I'm not sure how long you have been in the United States, but your statements are simply historically and factually inaccurate. First of all, are you familiar with the way Africans throughout the world have been treated? It's not some one or two generational mistreatment. It dates back entire CENTURIES. Read my earlier post #401. It's funny how this thread wants to act like the state of Africans is merely about intelligence or culture, but don't want to mention how they have been robbed, murdered, enslaved, and exploited by white people. FYI, many African nations, like the Nigerians, are brilliant and technologically advanced. Not only have I visited Lagos, but I have yet to meet an uneducated Nigerian ANYWHERE.

In any case, let me correct you: the African-American middle class is the FASTEST growing middle class among any group in America. They are receiving graduate degrees at a rate that is increasing faster than any other group. so no, not all are doing "minimum work", many are "working their arses off". The stereotypes on this thread are SICKENING.

also, the largest recipient of welfare checks in the US is white women. check the government stats. so the same advice about "getting off your arse and working hard" that you are trying to dish out to black people, give it to your women.

next, do you REALLY know what is going on in New Orleans??? The local civil engineers (one of them a prominent black professor at LSU) have been warning the federal government since the mid 20th century about the levys in New Orleans (which, by the way, were built by white people). But the federal government ignored them until it was too late. You may think there is tons of money going to the residents of New Orleans, but it's not. (It's to the point that many Americans who have given money could probably sue for misappropriation of donated funds). It is sitting with various government depar

Pilrig, 405
That's highly unlikely. Most schools in California are now dominated by Afro Americans and Hispanics.

MH 401, I'm afraid your post is totally wrong. Plenty of European countries became rich without any colonialism at all. I believe that per capita, Luxembourg is currently the richest country in the world. Where was its great empire. The British empire was profitable, just, but most European empires (the pre First World War German Empire for example) were not. Increased trade was more than offset by administration costs.

The second great hole in your premise is that non-European civilisations were and are every bit as nasty as anything Europeans came up with. The Chinese assimilation of Tibet is a telling example - outright genocide and replacement of the native population with their own people. Often the "native" people you might be thinking of were not actually native at all. For example, in New Zealand, the Maori population ate almost all of the original Mori Ori people, who are now almost extinct. African history from before the colonisation period is awash with cruelty and depravity. Until Europeans introduced their own standards, slaving, mass torture and cannibalism were rife.

MH your comments about Africans being "robbed, murdered, enslaved, and exploited" by white people are especially ironic since in the USA, by the American government's own statistics, a black person is 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a white person than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery. They're not small numbers.

In reality, the situation is even worse than that because for the purposes of collecting statistics like that, the US government deliberately includes Hispanics as being white but ONLY as perpertrators of crime, not as victims. Since Hispanics commit crime at a far higher rate than "anglos", this obviously makes whites look worse than they really are.

It may indeed be true that the rate in which Afro Americans are receiving degrees is higher than any other group. Afterall, they're the main beneficiaries of affirmative action. When we start to see plenty of successful African American scientists and engineers rather than just Black History professors, you'll have some credibility.

Sorry, that should read "the rate in which Afro Americans are receiving degrees is INCREASING higher than any other group".

It's widely known that Afro American college graduation rates are much lower than for whites.

#407 Dougie, I believe you missed a large part of my point. I was speaking out against implications and statements such as this: "Until Europeans introduced their own standards, slaving, mass torture and cannibalism were rife." This attitude promotes culturalism and racism at its best--"the white way is the only way", and ignores the evils started by European nations throughout the world.

First of all, Egypt is in AFRICA, not off the coast of Sweden somewhere, as white people want to believe. And the earliest Egyptians, prior to the mixing of races and cultures were BLACK. Many of the earliest discoveries and developments in math and science started in Egypt by AFRICANS. Stop implying that all sense of intelligence and civility came from white people.

And last I checked, the Holocaust was torturous genocide....and yep, was rooted in European culture.

Second of all, do you REALLY want to get into EVERYTHING Europeans introduced in Africa and HOW they did it? I know you only like to talk about the good stuff, as if white folks are the heroes of the world, but let's talk about it ALL. We can talk about the brutal efforts of the Crusades, European involvement in the slave trade (and how they expanded it to make it international, making money off the TORTURE and enslavement of human beings!!!), the Matabele wars (STARTED by the parliamentary and police influence