Quote: Britain's push to renew Trident comes under attack ... from Iran.........as well :)

I sincerely hope that Nigel is funding his own trip to Iran.

I waited in all day (well the half hour he designated, at least) for him and Sheila Gilmore to ring my bell (as promised by leaflet through door) to canvas my wiews. The self-serving b4st4ard didn't show.

Slender majority. Send him to Iran. On a one way ticket.

How, exactly, has Iran breached its own obligations (according to the Foreign Fairies)? They are entitled to develop nuclear power stations under the NPT, and that is all they are intending to do; and there is no proof to the contrary, other than yet more lies from Bush and Bliar.

As for moral authority, any that this country ever had went down the dunny along with New Labour's "ethical" foreign policy and the war criminal Bliar's illegal war.

#4-Guga-right all the way!p

Got that right. Blair and Bush are a couple of hypocritical war criminals. No credibility whatsoever.....

Both of them are a disgrace to humanity!

I don't want Trident but at the same time I don't think Iran's views are worth listening to. That is unless you really think they just want power stations.

"Britain's push to renew Trident comes under attack ... from Iran".......................Britain's push? Should that not say Blair's push? It seemed to me that most of the Scottish people were against this "push".

Scaramouche says Tony Blair stopped listening to the public once he got elected .... so why should Iran be treated any different. For a Labour leader to order newer WMDs for this country, is a complete betrayal of one of Labour's founding principles. But, then, this is NOT the real Labour party. However, Scaramouche offers you this;

The tragedy of Tony Blair
Is he made war and didn't care
What we all thought
Now he looks a total fool
Saying "it was THE right thing to do"
This war we fought
So blame it on his "true" religion
Or blame in on his mate, George W Bush
Can't you see Mr B. has misled the world?
The nauseating Mr B
Answers oleaginously
At Question Time
David Cameron tries in vain
To stick some mud on Tony's name
How asinine!
Misters Blair and Brown assure the public
Their government will be second to none
'Cause no there's way will Mr Cam'ron be having a say....
When Blair is gone, we will hear
Of investigations without fear
The choices he made
Hopefully they'll bring to light
Stupidity of t' whole damn fight
Like, why'd we invade?
There's been some years since the invasion
But a lifetime's oil is guaranteed for all
So Mr Blair doesn't care about misleading the world?

*adapted from "For The Benefit of Mr Kite" by The Beatles (Sgt Pepper album)

Sorry, I typed a line wrong ..... the 18th line of the song should read;
'Cause there's no way will Mr Cam'ron be having a say....

Hey, it's no worse than Scaramouche himself did with HIS typos!!!

Yeah!! we got them worried now.

Dangerous headline - Bush could confuddle it as "Britain ...... comes under attack - from Iran" and start WWlll.

The implication of the headline is that it is rather unsporting of Iran to critcise us expanding our nuclear capacity. I have not noticed any objection to us criticising them going for a much smaller capacity.

THATS WHAT YOU GET WHEN YOU PUT WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION ON YOUR DOORSTEP.WE ARE NOW A TARGET.PLEASE FIGHT TO REMOVE THEM.WE ARE A PEACEFUL TOTTIE WEE COUNTRY AND NOT AT WAR WITH ANYONE,ENGLAND IS THOUGH

There is growing turmoil within Iran itself manifested recently by demonstartions of over 30,000 teachers campaigning for better wages and conditions. All this will have a bearing on the policies of the leadership over the next period. For more info on Iran look up the Iranian Workers' Solidarity Network.
Sponsored by: John McDonnell ( John4leader)

Who cares what Iran says ... wou you have Churchill listening to snipes from Hitler?

Iran is not coming to the Nuclear table plain and simple. If they try to they will be put firmly back in their box and quite rightly so.

I'd cheerfully authorise the use of tactical warheads to break their protected facilities if that's what it took.

They are playing games with the UN like Saddam did and we can't be seen to be spineless over nuclear proliferation particulalry with Iran. It would be like giving a five year old a loaded gun- totally irresponsible.

Have we got a successor to Georgous George in Griffiths?
The Iranians will take as much notice of another silly Scottish politician with no influence as did the Iraqies did with Galloway.But maybe Griffiths is looking to the future for possible career in an independant Scottish government if it ever materialises.
Can I suggest we don't need rats from a possibly sinking ship,one who changes colours to suit the political climate.

UK and US think they own the world limiting other nations advancement of any kind at the moment whos creating unrest and talking about WMD who has them and using them. it is clear to see who the real terrorist are using democracy to justify war' if they left the whole middle east to run on its own without any european intervension the world would be at peace. ps remeber people are not born terrorist they are made !

#19, I can't believe that after 4 years of being in this war in Iraq, and after realizing that both President Bush and Mr. Blair lied to their respective nations about the false allegations that Saddam possessed WMDs as a pretext for invading Iraq, you are still repeating the old lies of WMDs in Iraq. Iran has not violated the NPT, and there is no evidence of a nuclear weapons program as has been stated in all of the IAEA reports. There is absolutely not one shred of evidence to prove the contrary, unless of course the neocons in Washington and Mr. Blair want to create the same false evidence (a la Iraq!!). Further, Iran unlike N. Korea has also not pulled out of the NPT and is still under the scrutiny of the IAEA. However, the west is teaching a very wrong lesson to many countries; that those who pull out of the NPT or have nuclear weapons will be protected while those who don't will be pressured to succumb to the super powers and the west. Just look at these two examples: Iraq had no WMDs and was invaded; while N. Korea who pulled out of the NPT and now has nuclear weapons is sitting around the negotiations table with the US with no preconditions established. And yes, it is a hypocrisy for Mr. Blair to justify building up his nuclear arsenal while demanding other countries (i.e Iran) to forego their inalieable right under the NPT and taking Iran's case illegally to the UNSC for sanctions. All Nuclear Weapons States are required to reduce their nuclear arsenals not increase them!!

Dear nojul-
The U.S and the U.K. do not believe they own the world. It has transpired, unfortunately, that in the past, when nations foriegn to the U.S. and the U.K. do not reasonably solve their own homegrown problems., that the U.S. and the U.K have to step in and help resolve these problems, since the problems tend to overspill into the self-preservation arenas of the U.S and the U.K. Examples: WWI, WWII, Bosnia and the events of 9/11/01.
The tragic ongoing deaths, the "unrest" in Iraq, are being perpetuated by those who prefer to hold hostage the Iraqi people. They will continue killing fellow Iraqis until the U.S leaves. The U.S. will not leave until the killing stops.
For years the middle east has been left on its own and it only fomented a displaced anxiety and focused hatred on the West because the middle east's non-secular political formulas, did not create a economy viable with the rest of the world's trading platforms. Also, the suppression of women, unlike in the West or in China, handicapped their workforce by denying education and the benefits of the power of a laborforce that includes women.
Everyone in the U.S. would like to see a peaceful Iraq, able to sustain itself as a viable nation.
Finally, if you have the time, please explain what goes into the making of a terrorist, since you have inferred that Bush is a terrorist. Please tell me what made him a terrorist since you yourself have said they are not born but "made."

#22 Ari New York
Points well said and presented,may be to deep for some of the self expressed numpties who inhabit these posts.
Only one comment Israel,as long as it has the capability (nuclear)it will be impossible to reconcile the rest of the Arab world not to go down the same path.
I believe that Israel itselve is the biggest threat ultimatly world peace

Who is this ignoramus who wants to go to Iran for "talks?" Or is Scotland somehow magically morphed into a sovereign state without anybody noticing?

This self-serving politician is another Neville "Peace In Our Time" Chamberlain, who was the biggest idiot since the previous time, whatever it may have been, that some cavilling, sniveling, whining English-speaking liberal tried to placate a demon whose only agenda was world domination by terror and by any means possible.

Or didn't you read the MSNBC report this a.m. on the chlorine gas attack in Iran?

#22 Ari New York:

Hey Abdullah! Don't you have the courage to print your real name on this forum?

#22
If Israel is the biggest threat to world peace and it has nuclear weapons, then why have they not just blasted away at this point? They have not threatened to annihilate any other nation.
Iran has.
Isreal is another example of unresolved problems. If WWII had not displaced so many Jews, Jews who considered themselves citizens of the countries that displaced them, then Isreal would not be a major player now. Yet, Isreal and Jews in general, are seen as the main threat to everyone's safety. I always marvel how a group of people, who comprise about 1/10th of 1% of the world's population can be responsible for so much action on the world stage.
Also, the majority of nations in the middle east sided with the Axis in WWII. That technically means all their lands were conquered after WWII. They just were not occupied as the European nations were and not rebuilt as was Europe, creating some of the loss of economic structure that might have helped them into the 21st century econmically.
Do you honestly believe that if Jews were non-existant that world peace would suddenly break out?

Voldemort comparing the Iranians to Hitler & suggesting we "cheerfully" nuke them is somewhat contradictory. Hitler's main fault was not that he was born foreign. Nice self appreciation in the name though.

I am not suprised by the intellectual dishonesty being displayed in many of these posts.
If you lie about what someone said, then accuse that person of lying, then who is the liar?
I guess all the Kurds, Shia, and Iranians Saddam snuffed out were just victims of an unfortunate fertilizer factory accident. He had AND USED WMDs before.
"Peace in our time" Neville Chamberlain.

The point is, O left-wingers on this forum, and you know who you are, that your mortal enemy has just complained about your possessing a deterrent to his openly stated plans to destroy you, and the only way he can do that is with nuclear weapons.

Woops-- that's the second way he can do that. The first way is to elect a bunch of mental midgets in the SNP to power in Scotland, secede from Great Britain, and immediately begin diplomatic relations with this monster in Tehran; then open your doors to any and all muslim fanatics who want to build a base in Britain to destroy the rest of Great Britain, and after that, of course, the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand...

In case you're wondering why the English-speaking world is the only political/cultural bloc to stand up against radical islam, the answer ought to be obvious. We're the only people with the intestinal fortitude to do it. The rest of Europe apparently believes some deus ex machina is going to descend once again to save them like the USA did in World War II-- but this time, oh how wrong they are. Frankly, I don't give a **** if Europe turns into some sha'aria province run from Iran. They deserve whatever befalls them. Too bad about 2200 years of Western history and culture going down the toilet, but after all, a religious police state like Iran is the new ideal. Right? St. Paul's and Notre Dame will become a muslim temple, as will all the great cathedrals throughout what was once Christendom' your daughters, wives, sisters and mothers will become slaves with no civil rights; your sons will be ignorant fanatics; your freedoms and languages will disappear; any semblance of democracy will vanish as you become the "submissive" creatures of the false and bloodthirsty god who is worshipped throughout the muslim world, and whose adherents do not stick at killing each other with poison gas or any other weapon they can lay their hands on.

Go to it. I can't wait until "alla

Correction: My post, #27, should have addressed post #24, the poster in Perth.

#23Everyone in the U.S. would like to see a peaceful Iraq, able to sustain itself as a viable nation.

I doubt if the ones profiting from this War do!

#31
Please clue Israel into how negotiate with a faction that refuses to acknowledge Israel's right to statehood even as they advocate a right to their own statehood?

#31
War always breeds profiteers.
But it is the middle classes that often see money as a sole motivation. The truth is that often the people that appear to be making money already have more money than they need. But money is power. So it may be true that some institutions, or people, profit from war.
The silver lining is that after the war is over, if you have established a free market economy, then a greater number of people have a shot at an improved standard of living.
Foer example, the U.S.'s free market entices many poor people over the border of the U.S. and Mexico everyday, in an effort to improve a poor standard of living.

Gawd! I can't get my numbers straight today! Duh. Too much St. Pat's the night before, maybe. Apoloogies.) I was addressing #33 in my last diatribe.

#27 esskay--World War I was caused by a similar "sh*tty little country" whose hyper-nationalists were connected at the hip to an internationalist Pan-Slavist philosophy and an 'Allied' intelligence apparatus connected to the Anglo-American international banking houses. They pushed Serbia forward--just as the rabid Zionist leadership are pushing Israel forward to confrontation and war.

In the first instance, it was the feared declaration that would make the Dual Monarchy and Tripartate Monarchy with a Hapsburg gaining a Slavic crown and strengthening its relations with its Slavic subjects and neighbors--something unwanted by Serbia, Russia and the British Empire--as it strengthened the Central European economic powers who were already kicking the butt of Anglo-American interests world wide--and, with the Berlin to Baghdad policies...which would have peacefully taken a German railroad to the Gulf if Britain had not already seized the Kuwaiti foothold.

Likudnik Zionists have ambitions of an Eretz Israel stretching from Mesopotamia to the Nile and war is the only way that this can be achieved--its not really surprising that they have a racist philosophy that puts the lives of Arabs at naught and seek their expulsion.

#27 Esskay
You obviously read from the Jewish Chronicle.
The history of the founding of Israel by mainly the USofA is well documented for good or evil?
The US foreign policies are also well documented,from Korea,Suez,Indo China,South America and the whole of the middle east.All policies from a nation ignorant of the world away from the shores of the US.
As there are more voting jews in the US than there are in Isreal the US will always support Isreal both militarialy and materially even for a nation who uses 11yr olds as human shields,did we not accuse Sadam H of the same tactics?
The % of the worlds population does not indicate its potential good or evil.The threat from Irael is ever present by their own admission ie "We (Israel) will attack Irans nuclear development program if the west does not contain it" quote PM Israel.
Stop playing the Holcaust card we all know the words and the tune.
US foreign policy has got us where we are in Iraq,ill thought out,badly planned in an attempt to give democrocy to a nation founded by Britain who never in there history ever had such an animal.(I won't mention either oil or a perceived threat to Israel)
In conclusion Israel is I repeat the greatest threat to peace in the middle east but US foreign policy is the greatest threat to world peace.

I wonder if Mr. Griffiths will return from Iran and announce "peace in our time". Those who ignore history are inclined to repeat it.

It's me again folks.

#38
If I did read from the Jewish Chronicle, it would be no great failure, as every nation or people tend to promote their own agendas at self preservation.
I did not mention the Holocaust. I mentioned the displacement of a group of people after WWII. That is a fact.
I do read and watch the BBC news, (BTW, #37, I did read the article you linked. Thank you, it says much what I also read at MSNBC. The Israelis will not negotiate until the Palestinian Cabinet acknowledges the state of Israel. That is an international tone of agreement and also a fact.)
I did not say that because the percentage of the Jewish population was small that it thereby implied that they were unable to create the outcome of good or evil. I said that I marveled that such a small population was able to make such a large impact on the world stage. It could be because the Jews do positively contribute substantially to world interests in varoious fields like medical research, music, arts, etc. I realize these would be contributions mainly acknowledged in the West and perhaps not in the East because, for example, I am guessing that the Islamic world may not be able to sanctify the use of, say, the Salk Vaccine against polio since it was developed by an American Jew. I could be wrong on that, though.
I imagine that the above quote from the Israeli PM was instigated after Amoudinajad said that he would wipe Israel off the map.
As for other news sources this American exposes (my)self to, I read the BBC, Al Jezeera, various news links, wherever they may lead me... and not lastly I read the news and views from The Scotsman.com.

Martha, a Burka plaid. Just think, the Highland Games could have, women in pens with sheep trials, tossing the bible, pipes and chants, the sword dance (done with men strapped to blocs), hetorosexual Gordons jigs, a Mullah mutton cook off. Yes! all sorts of possibilities.

What was Evelyn Waugh's celebrated put-down: semi-intellectual good timers? Pity he didn't live long enough to read these threads in the Scotsman. You're an anti-semite , #38, and you try to disguise that in comic-strip , neo-left geopolitical rant. I don't read the Jewish Chronicle, whatever that is, but I've heard of Balfour. Have you? And what part of the U.S. was he from?

#38
I forgot to address your concerns over the voting clout that American Jews supposedly have in the U.S., and thereby their supposed influence in elections and thereby American support of Israel.
There are about 5.3 million Jews in the U.S. The total ("of age") voting population is 217.8 million. That above number of Jews includes people not yet of voting age, so the actual number of Jews that vote would be smaller.

But you have, in a democratically run Western enclave, the right to your opinion, no matter how flawed I view it. With the gift of education and freedom of speech, we are able to openly converse about our opposing viewpoints, a right that some areas of the world still have not attained.
Thank you for your insights.

The Balfour Declaration originated from Britain's need to solve the shell crisis of 1915, and Chaim Weitzman had a key formula which would help. So, quid pro quo, the offer of a Jewish homeland in someone else's country.

Does #43 think a hypothetcially persecuted people from, say, Brittany should be automatically allowed to return to their old homeland of SW England aftr 1500 years? I think not.

#46
I agree that compromise is the key. I also do not think that Israel does everything 100% gold all the time.
I am hoping that they are using this stringent view temporarily as a strength to negotiating more firmly with Abbas, whom I believe is on the right track diplomatically most of the time. I see this as a poker move... hold out a little longer until more cards are showing.
Israel does want a two-state solution.
Thanks for your civil tone and concrete debate.

The "someone else's country", No. 45 , was the Ottoman Empire, a sovereign entity that disappeared in the post-Versailles years. The portion of the Ottoman Empire over which Great Britain exercised its League of Nations mandate was partitioned by the United Nations into a sovereign state of Israel and an Arab entity. Certainly there is enough blame for all parties in that tortured part of the world , but to burden the Israelis and the Americans alone is not only intellectually dishonest but also morally questionable.

post 21,
US, AND UK. think they own the world and try to limit any other country advancement to under acheive and develop, some people are catching on SCOTLAND has been in that position for 3 hundred years now as it was a deliberate attempt to kurb independence, by promoting a dependencey culture incase anyone didnt notice UNIONIST obviously havent noticed that yet or they cant see the wood for the trees.

#30 Martha:
While going through the blogs and focusing my thinking I came across yours . I can't possibly add to your well written logical assesment on the developments in Europe.When did we decide to trust Iran or any other country in that part of the world?
I am not blind I do see.

26. Martha / 3:02pm 17 Mar 2007 #22 Ari New York:

Hey Abdullah! Don't you have the courage to print your real name on this forum?
=================================
Well, well Martha., so you have now show us your racist side...is your true name Adolphina Hitler.

Why dont you respect Ari and stop calling him Abdullah...so crass...no class. Typical Redneck mentality. Thank god you did not call him Bubba

I prefer to call you Mrs Google...the know all smartie pantless Gator from the Florida swamps.

This one is for Martha...

Blow it out your ear babe

#43 US Traveller
I bet you don't read from the JC mmmm.
I'm afraid your wrong I'm not an anti-semite,why is it that any one that criticises Israel is?But even if I where, being anti-semite is not,as far as I know illegalI am by my own admission anti-Israel for the reasons previously posted.
Your religious heartland are and have used tactics that albeit on a smaller scale are very little different than those used by Sadam Hussain in Iraq ie destruction of refugee camps,bombing of civilians and even after a cease fire had been agreed carpeting parts of Lebanon withUS supplied unexploded cluster bomblets.
It is little wonder that the USA and Israel are the two most despised countries in the world,this is speaking from some one who has worked/lived in many parts of this globe.

#52 zigzag
Adolpha Hitler?
So crass no class indeed.

#50-
Your use of this unnecessarily derogatory phrase:
"... World War I was caused by a similar "sh*tty little country" ..." really invalidates a lot of what you write afterwards. I admit to attempting to wade through your conjectures and hypotheses on what happened to instigate WWI, but frankly, you have too many suppositions included for me to take it seriously.
I do note that you say that Israel seeks Arab expulsion. There are Arab Israelis, citizens of Israel. They vote and are represented in the Knesset.
Thank you for your viewpoint.

#54-
You note:
"...To expand on your poker analogy, if one player has to rely on other cards to win their game then that is the sign of a weak game or a weak player..."
But I constantly get the impression that Israel "holds all the cards," so to speak and it is their great power, (with the aid of the U.S.,) that causes the hardships for the Palestinian people.
Israel cannot simultaneously be weak and strong.

Mine is just an "angels-dancing-on-the-head-of-a-pin" reply, I think I understand what you meant. But even if my idea means that Israel is at a weakened crossroads, (and they do have a lot of dissenting views within their own government,) then that actually isn't a bad thing.
What needs to happen is peace, no matter who is holding all the trumps.

#60

Re: "...the starving in Gaza.."
I guess it would help if they stopped attacking the people there to help. We are also awaiting word on the BBC journalist kidnapped.

http://tinyurl.com/38634x

# 56, Barbour from Perth, seems we dislodged a rock, and look what slithered out. Your comments border on the racist. If you mean by your coy "I bet you don't read from the JC ummm" that I am a Jew, you are mistaken. For whatever relevance it has it's Anglo-Irish ( and RC at that). To inject religion, nationality, or race into an argument speaks volumes about your political orientation. If you think that the U.S. is so desperate for the approval of people like you that it would throw Israel over the side, you are mistaken. Peace will come to the middle east when and only when, there is mutual recognition of the national aspirations of all the parties--both Israelis and Palestinians.

#61 esskay
Did not the Israeli army shoot and kill an aid worker recently,or was he only tring to help the Palestinian so he did'nt count.
Stop trying to move the attention re BBC reporter kidnapping from the main agenda which is the apparent reluctance of USA/Israeli politicians to acknowledge that the Palestinian people have a right to live in what was their homeland before the USA created Israel.
I also notice that in interviews with the media Israel has dropped the brooklyn accented spokesmen.

#63
"...I also notice that in interviews with the media Israel has dropped the brooklyn accented spokesmen."

Huh?

#64 thatscottishwoman
Yes, I think Israel has shown, in the past that it is ready to conduct herself in a humanitarian fashion. But allow, me for one moment to add... you say you know what fear and desperation does to people.
Might I elaborate that fear is what causes desperation in most part. That fear of causes most of the distrust in the world, which gets generalized into sweeping bias and prejudice.
(Gotta go!)

#63 Barbour.
Did I hear you right? "The U.S. created Israel'?
What history books have you been reading?

We need Trident to defend against rogue states such as Iran

#66 Sambo
Get a life fool,it was the US financial influence that blackmailed the west into constructing Israel out of Palestine and creating thousand upon thousands of refugees to make way for the European jewish refugees.Why do you supose that the US defends Israel no matter what she does and supplies her with billions of $ in aid to a country that has fruit farming as its only natural resource,how do you think Israel funds its military.Get your head out of your anus and think,or possibly admit!

The Complete Military History of France:

* Gallic Wars - Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French
history, France is conquered by, of all things, an Italian.

* Hundred Years War - Mostly lost, saved at last by female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare:
"France's armies are only victorious when not led by a Frenchman."

* Italian Wars - Lost. France becomes the first and only country to ever lose two wars when fighting Italians.

* Wars of Religion - France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots

* Thirty Years War - France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded anyway. She claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring her.

* War of Devolution - Tied. Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.

* The Dutch War - Tied

* War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War - Lost, but claimed as a tie. Three "ties" in a row induces deluded Frogophiles the world over to label the period as the height of French military power.

* War of the Spanish Succession - Lost. The War also gave the French their first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved ever since.

* American Revolution - In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the formerly English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare:
"France only wins when America does most of the fighting."

* French Revolution - Won, primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.

* Napoleonic Wars - Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.

* Franco-Prussian War - Lost. Germany first plays the role

#72
Very humourous very true, but puzzled by the relevance to the previous posts?
No,still can't see the connection,explain please.

#72 Makes sense to me
History is written by the victor and endured by the vanquished.Perhaps we must write history. History can be interpreted by either side.ie The American Revolution by the Loyalist side.

Bye the bye-My old Grandad always said that we fought the wrong country first then the Germans would follow in WW1

The Gorm: As regards the American Revolution, interpret all you like. We kicked the British out; that's clear, no matter how you want to think it ended. It's the best thing we ever did for ourselves, because we have had no hereditary monarchy or any of the other detritus of a spoiled, degenerate aristocracy since 1776. No paternalistic system, no cradle-to-grave hand-holding, no "knowing your place," nothing of that sort whatsoever. Americans stood on their own, and continue to do so, without having to bow to ANYONE except God Almighty.

It was a bold and radical move, but we pulled it off. Luckily for the free world, I might add, because without us, you'd all still be waving swastikas and yelling Heil Hitler even thought the old bastard would have been long gone by now.

After 1776, those misguided people who thought they couldn't live without some Hapsburg monarch and all his fourth, fifth, and sixth cousins lording it over them all moved to Canada, or went home to Britain, or wherever they ended up.

If the muslims really think they can take on the USA and begin their global reign, they're in for one almighty shock. If they start throwing nuclear weapons around, they're glass. If there's another atrocity here like 9/11, I shudder to think what will happen, because frankly, most of us except for Hillary Clinton and a bunch of Hollywood morons are FED UP.

#76Martha
I know its not a school day tomorrow,maybe you should go to bed before mummy tells you to,you obviously need to lie down in a darkened room.
Martha's mummy -- I think you should activate the parental lock on your PC she is having strange thoughts,must be her age,I'm sure she'l grow out of it.Stupid girl

#76 Martha;
Easy hen -I like the go gettum Yanks and am glad someone stands up for everybody else.Dam easy to be critical.
My point was that all history can be interpreted . My example was The American Revolution. Check "Buried History of the American Revolution" Google
Sharp claws.

#58 esskay--Couldn't help myself...the French ambassador's words regarding Israel fit like a well-worn shoe...the world's peace resting on the political whims of fanatics armed with nukes while they attack and otherwise antagonize everyone around them while a world power pushes them forward...it reeks of August 1914. (And, I think the description of Israel is very necessary and invalidates nothing. So much is at stake for the puerile, paltry and sorry ambitions of certain Israeli fanatics and the State that they serve not to be denigrated, mocked and despised at every turn.) Sorry, I could have been clearer on my WWI analogizing...Too much March Madness distraction for me to achieve clarity.

What's-her-name--the new firebrand in the Olmert Cabinet was calling for Arab expulsion, if memory serves... one prominent crazy wanted death for any Arab Knesset members who talked with Hamas. There is a comparable situation in America, where Neo-con talk hosts call for the jailing or death of war opponents following Queen George's pre-war jihad proclaimation...'you are either with me, or with the terrorists.'

Gorm-- ok. Yes, actually I do know a little about the loyalists who went to Canada (and to the more remote parts of Maine) during and after the Revolution here. Interesting story, and actually rather a case of the chickens coming home to roost considering how miserably the Acadians in Canada were treated by the British... So it could be "interpreted" as only poetic justice in the end, don't you think?

Well then, Scottishwoman, let's debate Israel, the US, and what you are pleased to call "Palestine."

At the time of Christ, there was no "Palestine;" it got that name later, and it was just a part of "Syria Palestina," a Roman tributary in the eastern Mediterranean. There were always Jews in the region; they never really left Judea, Samaria, or the Galilee.

After WW-I,in 1920 Britain and France divided up the eastern Mediterranean since the Ottoman Turkish Empire that formerly controlled the region and ran it from Damascus had collapsed under its own weight at the same time. The states of Trans-Jordan (today's Jordan) and Iraq were created, along with Lebanon and Palestine, under a Mandate or protectorate, with Britain running Palestine and France running Lebanon.

In May 1948, Israel became a state by UN vote. It was instantly (within 24 hours) attacked by five muslim neighbors, which it beat off somehow. And it was attacked again and again over the next several decades. That is history. It has endured decades of shelling and rocket attacks, and unending suicide bomb attacks, and other attacks on civilians and its armed forces within its borders. Israel has been a nuclear nation for well over two decades, which is probably the only thing that has kept its fanatical neighbors from overruning it.

You might want to study Israel if you indeed think that you can dump Trident and play kissy-face with the Iranians. Since it seems to have escaped your mental grasp, I am informing you that the muslims don't operate under the same set of rules as the West. Unless you consider beheading journalists and gassing civilians as normal civilized behavior.

There is no "Palestine" today, officially; the Palestinian Authority is what "runs," if you can call it that, the West Bank (rather like calling everything south of the Thames the "South Bank") and Gaza. The P.A. is a sinkhole

#85 Martha
Yes you are right in that all historical events have two sides , ie the Acadian Expulsion has two sides to be" interpreted "also but that is not the question at this point.The discussion could carry on for a fortnight or more.Do check out the American Revolution reference.(It is always wrong to accept anyone's propaganda especially your own side) Check Nazi Germany.

The Complete Military History of France:

Continued from where I left off at #72

* War on Terrorism - Losing. France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to the Vietnamese ambassador fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald's.

"The nation that separates its warriors from its scholars will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools."

Thinks: maybe someone wakes up alongside Martha every morning.
And they say the Yanks are only courageouse when they are at 10,000 feet.

A brave man. I salute him

89. Derick fae Yell

10,000 feet & face to face.

#86 Martha
The Rabbi has taught you well congratulations
You post has like all good propaganda has a vein of truth running through it.The point that you are missing and many poster are making that both Palestinians and Israelies will not accept each others point of view,coupled with Irans fanatical hatred of Israel another conflict will start only this time the Iranians who will surely achieve nuclear delivery and Israel will naturally retaliate result Armaggedon.
Its difficult to deny Irans nuclear program when we accept and assist Israel in theirs
The question of atrocities by both Israel and her antagonists do not make easy viewing but one has a big brother one has not.

Martha: Well said on all fronts!

These countries who think they can mess around and instill their beleifs on us have another thing coming.

Iran with nuclear power is unthinkable and we must rally our resources and put them and their sort out of business permamently!

These muslim sorts and their mother countries are become tiresome. Maybe some of the peacenick leftys out there need a nuke to go off in London beofer they'd get some lead in their pencil about this major security issue.

Then again they'd probably start arguing that 'it not the bombers fault, we published a cartoon of their god once about 10 years ago so we had it coming' ...

Just think about Iran and other rogue states have nuclear weapons for a moment ... there is NO other answer we MUST stop them or we ourselves will regret the day. Why they haven't been bombed already is a mystery to me .. however I see there's another carrier in the gulf just now so there will hopefully be a move before the Democrats get in and Iran can go full tilt.

I don't think there is anything racist about Martha's thoughts .. what is wrong with wanting to look after your own first?? Britain is far too soft on those who abuse her ...

#92 thatscottishwoman
I don't think Israel will as long as America pours in support,they don't have to.
Unlike youselve I have not been to either Israel or Palestine,but spent time in Iran,Iraq Kuwait and therefor have a slight insight into the Arab mind.
One of the biggest fear in the Arab world is one day the USA will step back from Israel for expediancy and nukes start flying in the middle east,the USA is geographicaly remote for them not to be affected.Unless Israel is given Neutron capability thenthe Arabs could be destroyed but the oil would not be contaminated.

ThatScottishwoman: - the fact that you have been out there merely demonstrates you have sympathies towards the palestinian suicide bomber cretins I'll wager ...

One of my chaps has just come back from there too - he informs me that there simply is no reconciliation, no middle ground, ... Israel has every right to cheesed off with neighbour that have constantly attacked them.

Iran and syria are behind the palestinian terror groups .. and the US is behaind Israel.

Islam started all this bother some 800 years AD and they still haven't forgotton theor modus operandii ... global conversion.

If you go into Islam it is really a sick puppy ... I mean if you took it to the Vet they'd put it down!

Our society would be better off if we didn't allow Islam in this country at all. We cow tow to these guys far to much and it's time we said as a people 'Accept the British way of life, quit your adjitating, or get out!'

We don't get this trouble from the Sikhs, Hindu's or Bhudists - why should we put up with the muslims shouting off like an arrogant ill disciplined child?

i think someone should remind the iranians their standing in the world....
why the un stand for this is testament to their spineless nature. i think even to the most simple person would realize that unstable nations should not be armed at all

#96
must agree, dont think multi culturism works in general

Griffiths Sounds Like Another Galloway.
And we all know how much he is held in high esteem eh?
Anyway at least Griffiths is doing something albeit its not in representing his constituents, But something he believes in, A wee bit more Balls than Some MSPs who i am not going to name but only repeat that i cannot find one in this country willing to stand up to SCCRC and Justice Minister.
Please view link below to see how corrupt they are

http://www.flickr.com/photos/big-wullie/424531923/?#comme...

Putting things into Historical perspective, the middle east is just a bunch of tribal gangsters with a little cash in thier pocket. There hasn't been any difference the past couple thousand years except that today, Camels do not run on oil, so what the f...............................
The Song Still Remains the Same!

Oh Dear, Mad Martha's at it again.

I guess there are many more like her in the good old US of A and it's frightening. The loonies could well take over the asylum.

It's time someone ensures she gets her medication regularly then they can nip down the corridor and give Dubya his shot.

103 : Rollocks! You are about as independent or as unbias as a A&E doctor is to drinking or speeding ...

Talking to Iran and/or any other fanatical muslim state is about a useful as a chocolate fireguard. They only way they understand is the way of the gun .. fortunately we speak their language fluently.

And with any luck the US, UK, and/or Israel will be giving them a lecture in the finer points of bunker busting firepower in the not too distant.

If Iran is allowed a nuclear weapon then I want one too! Wonder how my neigbours would feel about that if I'd threatened to wipe them of the map .... ?!

Most of the drivel about talking with Iran/Syria and the likes comes from those you would expect ... lefty, peacenicks, who'd rather put the rights of a sucide bomber infront of their own peoples national security. Just go away and read about chamberlin as martha suggests ... that is all you will get out of talking with these guys -- a bit of paper .. followed by a broken promise, followed by a war far worse than if we just nip it in the bud ... guess some folk just never learn ... heyho ...

Martha, keep up the fantastic posts! Your keyboard is like nails on a chalkboard to the terrorist appeasers.

Thank God for Martha & Voldemort. When the mad mullahs elect to criticise Tony Blair for the Trident decision you just know that he has got it 100% right in the Trident decision. We have our own fifth column of appeasers, greenies and newspaper journalists in Australia and anything that gets up their noses is OK by me. Go for it Martha!

#110 Makes sense to you?

I suppose that is good if your objective is to annoy and harass rather than to discuss...

112. Bikewoman

I was complimenting Martha. You must be a Far left winger if you're natural response is to attack someone paying a compliment.

I clearly see where you stand, and your harassing comment about me having an objective to harass rather than to discuss is ill founded since you skipped right over comments 99-102 without commenting on those.

Bikewoman, is Djookers realted to you? On another thread I was just insulted by that poster as well. He/She must be a left winger as well, they are so rude.

Martha-#'s 25, 30, 76, 84, 86, etc.

You are the Muse of Poetic Justice this evening. You make us proud to be Americans. Keep up the good work!

Between the hilariously true French military history of Makes Sense To Me and Voldemart's wonderful comments there could be a new generation of PC Brave Hearts coming into being.

I'm staying tuned.

116. Virginian, USA

I agree!

"The Complete Military History of France" #72 & 88 is the best post I've read in weeks!

The truth hurts! My sides ache from laughing.

#113

Allow me to reiterate. Your post: "Martha, keep up the fantastic posts! Your keyboard is like nails on a chalkboard to the terrorist appeasers."

Again, this is good if your objective is to upset people. Otherwise you might have said "Great job! I think they are starting to understand your perspective."

As for posts 99-102 - These posts lack any substance and are reiterated needlessly. I only respond to people I believe are actually trying to communicate. I ignore people who do nothing but call names or who act like a petulant 12 year old. In restrospect concerning your post, I can see that I made an error and I should have relegated you to the same category.

#100, 101, 102- She heard you the first time!

118. Bikewoman

You are missing the point. You owe "Makes sense to me" an apology for butting in and insulting him. He made an excellent point on how you skipped right over posts 99-102 but rather attacked someone paying a compliment to Martha. If you feel having an opinion different than that of terrorists is harassing, then that is your issue you need to deal with and not attack others.

Martha's potted history of the Middle East is all very interesting but sidesteps the main point: Israel has persued an agressive expansionist policy since it was granted land by the United Nations in 1947.
Israel was set down on land shared by both Jews and Arabs after the Zionists harrassed and committed terrorist acts against the British.
Israel has been attacked on various occasions and has fought back and won large extensions of land which it steadfastly refuses to return, flouting various UN decrees to that effect. It becomes clear to everyone that Israel has no intention of returning these conquered lands.
However, land won in war does not grant legal title.

On the other hand we have Israel's undeniably cruel mistreatment of the Palestinian people in the West Bank and who are condemned to the Israeli jackboot on a daily basis.
Furthermore, Israel has carried out a policy of establishing settlements on land won in war--a practice roundly condemned and forbidden by international law.

Israel is guilty of, amongst other things, collective punishment, keeping prisioners without trial or access to lawyers or international aid orgaizations, attacking stonethrowing kids with machine guns, using internationally prohibited weapons such as cluster bombs and white phosphorus bombs etc.

Add to the foregoing, the fact that Israel is pumping off sub soil water deposits from the West Bank and sending it straight back to Israel.

If another alien country did all that to you and your people on your own land, would YOU accept that country's existence? Wouldn't YOU want to wipe that country off the map?

#120 Bombay Beach Woman

My, how disingenuous. These "praiseworthy" posts of Marthas do nothing but vomit hatred and engage in name-calling.

"If you feel having an opinion different than that of terrorists is harassing, then that is your issue you need to deal with..."

He didn't say terrorists - he said terrorist appeasers which, given their reference to Martha's posts, means those of use who hold liberal political views. I do have a problem with this - it is my right to have a problem with it. I may voice my discontent just as you have a right to voice your discontent with my post. Surely you aren't going to claim that you have a right to object to another person's post and others do not, are you?

As for an apology - no. I don't owe anyone an apology.

Now where is your objection to post 115? Seems to me you skipped right over that. Pretty convenient.

120. Bombay Beach Woman

After reading her many posts I can tell she is very opinionated and I do not expect an apology nor want from her.

122. Bikewoman

I see you still defend comments 99-102 while yet you complain about another post. I have no idea about your sexual preference and I could care less but from what I have seen so far I would have to agree you are definitely militant. Nice spin job at #118

#123

This is what I wrote concerning posts 99-102:

"As for posts 99-102 - These posts lack any substance and are reiterated needlessly. I only respond to people I believe are actually trying to communicate."

I fail to see how this is defending those posts. I guess you see what you want to see.

Martha's posts do not make me proud to be American.

#121 - Excellent post, concise and analytical - sadly wasted on many posters here. It will just be dismissed as 'militant' and 'terrorist-appeasing' (and possibly 'gay'...)

One does not have to agree with TSW's posts, but at least she remains on topic and tries to address the topic/issue in her replies, unlike her critics, whose capabilities and sensibilities are perfectly illustrated by the nature of their posts (as an example, see #84...)

Better militant than ignorant, eh?

Israel.. The State that was Created by Terrorist for Terrorist.

121. Robin Bather, Mexico.

Robin,
A VERY good post, if I dare, may I also add that the United Nations revoked our mandate BEFORE handing it over to the Jews. Can I also add that as the Jews crossed the Red Sea looking for the 'promised land' Israel can NOT be their land of origin - ergo, they are interlopers.

Trying to get back on subject surely the basis of the article is that Blair wants Trident for our 'Welfare and Protection' but along with Bush decries the fact that any other country should possess such weapons, in the case of North Korea - if the Chinese Peoples Republic is unhappy at Korea having Nuclear Weapons then I can understand our fear.

This appears to be one law for the US and UK and another for the rest of the world.

Reference an earlier post. What was the percentage of the German population, when they invaded Poland on the 1st September 1939, in relation to the Worlds' population of the day? This is rhetorical, but the point is that Hitler managed four around FIVE years to dominate virtually the whole of Europe and then Hirohito joined in taking over virtually the whole of Asia.

Iran is now in the running for the Golden Pot for 2007, (pot calling the kettle black, get it , get it, nudge nudge wink wink),
if their bomb/missile programme was strictly defensive-as I presume their PR machine will try to portray it, they wouldnt be bothered by an upgraded UK system. Would they now.

And as for the posts re Israel I can't see what they have to do with this issue, this is about Iran directly (to quote China) interfering in the sovereign affiars of another nation.ie the UK.

And as for Mr Griffiths, prehaps he can continue on to Moscow to dicuss the Russian Topol missiles, going back into production(shades of Greenpeace & a well known reactor accident in the 80's prehaps?-the total silence that emerged from them afterwards). At least they have the US trying to install backdoor missile bases in Poland as justification,
Iran is in no similar postion on this one.

Personally I hope Tony Blair:
A continues the upgrade

B Keeps US companies off the contractor list-if not, the new missiles will only be delivered in 2030, will cost 6 times the original price & probably won't work.

Oh people , please answer this question : why UK is entitled to have and renew nuclear weapons while my country is prohibited to enrich uranium for peaceful purposes according to NPT ?

Quote: “ Tony Blair argued that Britain needed new nuclear weapons because of potential threats from countries such as North Korea and Iran or terrorists armed with nuclear weapons.”
Mr. Blair : according to your strategy , what is the meaning of NPT and disarmament ? if it is your strategy, you must not blame other countries even if they are developing nuclear weapons because you government with US government are real threats while other countries like iran as you think may only be potential threats .

#129 – I generally appreciate and agree with your comments. However, after initially getting a good laugh at your final comment; ie, “B”, my capitalist logic compels me to offer the following for consideration:
- blocking US defense contractors from bidding on UK weapons programs will only limit the options available to the UK, and
- if US defense contractors can’t make system cost competitive considering price/performance, the UK shouldn’t buy from them, or
- if US defense contractors can’t make reliable systems, the UK shouldn’t buy from them.

I don’t work for a US defense contractor, but it has been my observation that the weapons systems utilized by the US military are for the most part pretty effective, although possibly more expensive than they could be…..I would like to get both lowest price and highest performance in all cases, but if I had to prioritize one over the other, it would be reliability and performance first, then price.

Thanks for your thoughts.

9 (Road to the Isles) and others refer to Iran as though that country was a person. Iran is not a person but a country where a big argument is going on about nuclear weapons. Many Iranians evidently think that any self-respecting country needs nukes. But the Sypreme Leader, the Ayatollah Khamenei, keeps on telling them that nuclear weapons are un-Islamic and anyhow too expensive, laying unacceptable burdens on the people. Nigel Griffiths doesn't need to persuade him, he's already persuaded. The question for the international community is how to persuade the Iranians who want to follow Britain's example.

#23 Esskay

"The U.S. will not leave until the killing stops."

wrong

The US has no intention of leaving until the oil runs out

Hang in there Tony Blair !!!

When will the middle east countries realize that we just want a share of the oil that just happens to be under them?

We don't really care about how they treat your own people, do what you want to them since they are spineless anyway for putting up with your ways.

We will get the oil we need in the end-we always do.

University announces scientific proof that God exists

A team at Liberty University today announced that using a new technique called Complex Recursive Asymetric Palindromic mathematics they have been able to prove the existence of God.
Team leader Ihnbread Falwell, brother of university founder Jerry Falwell,said "It's taken us three years to get to this point but the basis of the theory is really quite simple. What we managed to prove with the math is that if a word describes something that you can prove exists and that same word describes something else when the spelling is reversed that second thing must also exist.
So if you take the word DOG, and we all know dogs exist, then reversing the spelling Gives you GOD and by the maths he must also exist."

A great day for christians everywhere spread the word...........

#134 Reading Public
I doubt that you have ever left the shores of the USofA except maybe on "Today its Wednesday,must be Rome" or are you one of the 95% of overfed,pampered Americans who have never had a passport and only get their foriegn experiances from CNN or Newsweek?
It is generally accepted that where ever Americans go ,you can tell that they are there by loud voices and bad manners,the local economy takes a dive because they are too stupid to realise they are being ripped off by the locals to the detriment of the indiginess populace.eg how many billions have you poured into Iraq and where has it gone?

The problem that Iranians have, in reality, it is not so much to do with convincing the outside world, that their nuclear-drive is an inseparable part of their country's industrial development. What [Iranians]they are facing however, is a belinckered and ignorant opposition; in whose, logic and rationality become an obsolete and irrelavent: In another words, their natural, but, non-spoken tool of behaviour[hypocrocy] takes over. That is, the system which creates the likes of Prime minister-Tony Blair, rightfully, it also allows its subservients to eat from the same plate they shit on.