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We won't win Afghan war, admits UK commander



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Published Date: 06 October 2008
By ANDREW WOODCOCK
THE public should not expect "a decisive military victory" in Afghanistan, Britain's most senior military commander in the country warned yesterday.
Brigadier Mark Carleton-Smith said the aim was to reduce the uprising to a level at which it could be managed by the Afghan army, and he made clear that this could involve talking to the Taleban.

It was necessary to "lower our expectations" and accept it would be unrealistic to expect multinational forces to entirely rid Afghanistan of armed groups, he suggested.

Brigadier Carleton-Smith, the commander of 16 Air Assault Brigade, which has just completed its second tour of Afghanistan, said his forces had "taken the sting out of the Taleban for 2008".

But he went on: "We're not going to win this war. It's about reducing it to a manageable level of insurgency that's not a strategic threat and can be managed by the Afghan army."

He said the aim should be to change the nature of the debate in Afghanistan, so disputes were settled by negotiation, not violence.

"If the Taleban were prepared to sit on the other side of the table and talk about a political settlement, then that's precisely the sort of progress that concludes insurgencies," he said.



The full article contains 213 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 05 October 2008 10:17 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Afghanistan
 
1

SouthernGent,

06/10/2008 00:41:58
PC wars will be the doom of western society. Since when do you tell your enemy you can't win?
2

SCULLION1,

Canada 06/10/2008 01:25:11
#1, when you can't win it and are stuck in a quagmire. What damage to the U.S. national psyche was done, and still remains, by Vietnam?
3

Fifi la Bonbon,

06/10/2008 01:28:31
The headline seriously misrepresents the commander's point of view. As he says when quoted, the public should not expect a decisive military victory in Afghanistan. I can't imagine that anyone thought otherwise. I know it's what newspapers do, but it's still rubbish reporting.
4

SouthernGent,

06/10/2008 02:01:13
#2
Not a surprising quote coming from you, as liberals have never had a problem with surrender.
5

Carolyn 1,

06/10/2008 02:50:45
Thanks to McCain's effort, the US has good relations with Viet Nam, not an easy thing to do for a guy they tortured. It shows his character.
6

Rob Bennett,

Point Piper Australia 06/10/2008 03:53:24
#1 SouthernGent
"Since when do you tell your enemy you can't win?

When it becomes a reality.

John McCain the US traitor was responsible was responsible for the deaths of fellow American pilots in Vietnam. No one has ever witnessed McCain's supposed "torture" at the hands of his jailers. The consensus opinion of other POWs in McCain's camps was that McCain was NEVER tortured by the North Vietnamese
7

Harry "Dingy" Reid,

Las Vegas 06/10/2008 04:08:27
4 SouthernGent

SCULLION1 is a girly boy communist that always has his tail between his legs and the first to insult the US.
8

SouthernGent,

06/10/2008 04:45:15
#6
"The consensus opinion of other POWs in McCain's camps was that McCain was NEVER tortured by the North Vietnamese"

Utter BS. His cell mates have been interviewed many times. Your post indicates your total lack of credibility and your standing with the underbelly of society.
9

Mashimaro,

China 06/10/2008 05:16:58
#5 Not an easy thing for a guy they tortured! WHAT? He dropped bombs on people! He slaughtered Vietnamese. How about not an easy thing for a country that was invaded and bombed and had its people slaughtered and raped and burned to death, its environment wrecked and is STILL suffering the consequences of US chemical warfare. I would say the character, if any, is on Vietnam's side.
10

Mashimaro,

China 06/10/2008 05:18:43
Frankly you should have left Afghanistan to the Soviets and you're getting what you deserve. It's payback!
The only thing you can do now is to stay the course. Perhaps if you're very very nice to the Russians they might send a tank or two to help out. Otherwise quit yer whining and get on with it.
11

Pilrig,

Livingston 06/10/2008 05:53:43
4 - speaks from the land of Robert E Lee, so you'd be familiar with surrender.
12

Rob Bennett,

Point Piper Australia 06/10/2008 06:06:23
#8 SouthernGent
"Utter BS. His cell mates have been interviewed many times"

So Colonel Earl Pearson Hopper is full of BS?

Why would this colonel lie about McCain???

Colonel Earl Pearson Hopper served 30 years as an Army Airborne Officer spending most of his time as an Intelligence Officer in the airborne special forces during the Korean and Vietnam wars. Listen to the colonel talk about John McCain's bad activities while he was in a POW camp. 5 days after McCain was captured he asked the Vietnamese to take him to the hospital in exchange for classified military information. They took him to hospital where he did pass on classified military information. McCain then proceeded to give the Vietnamese the routes the US bombers were taking to bomb North Vietnam. He told them the altitude they'd fly, the corrections, the turns they'd make, the full directions. McCain also told the Vietnamese where the US targets were, their primary interests, like railroads, bridges, ammunition sites etc. After he gave them the information the Vietnamese then moved their ant-aircraft defenses into those areas including rockets etc into those package routes. The result of course turned out that the Vietnamese started shooting down US aircraft in greater amounts than before. The US lost 60% more aircraft and men than they had previously. This happened for about 1 month and got so bad that they called off the bombing of North Vietnam because of the information that John McCain gave them.

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_hopper_video.htm

http://caosblog.com/6998

War Hero?

I doubt it..
13

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta CA For more WAR VOTE McCain 06/10/2008 06:46:55
4
SouthernGent,
0

Hey Dude,
Can U tell us what percentage of so-called liberals, make up the US military ?

Is it 1% or 51%
U should shut up, making idiotic statements, when u are ignorant of the facts

U ape those who say, liberals are not patriotic.

The great characteristic of a liberal . is they are able to THINK. And not behave like a NZ sheep .. When the lead sheep goes BAHH all the others go BAHHH.

Just like the evil Bush when he goes BAHH

GC
14

MacGillicuddy,

06/10/2008 08:28:25
So billions of wasted pounds later the reality sets in. Just why were our young people sent there in the first place? I suppose that might come out at the trials of Bliar, Brown and Bush.
15

Postmark-55,

China, 06/10/2008 10:25:21
Follow China's lead and keep your troops at home to defend your countries against man-made and natural disasters, quit going around globally trying to force Democracy on people who don't want it. We here in China don't try to shove Communism down your throats and we keep our house in order. Knock us all you want but we're setting a far beter example than the rest of you. If you don't like what we do, we at least do it within our borders, the same can't be said for you.
16

Number 6,

Germany 06/10/2008 10:40:25
#8 Southern Gent. Find me one quote where McCain talks of being "tortured". According to his own auto-biography, his injuries were sustained on ejection and when he was roughed up by the villagers he had been bombing. he has admitted he made his broadcasts (over 20 )in exchange for treatment for his injuries.

he was the only prisoner to receive hospital treatment.
He simply has let people spread the word he is a hero without contradicting them. Thus, Mccain can never be accused of saying he was tortured, while allowing others to say it for him. War hero ??????.

He spent a grand total of 20 hrs in the WAR before losing yet another aircraft. For this he was awarded
a total of 28 medals. How ludicrous is that ?. Was it just because he was the son of an Admiral, or because he was shot down ?. He is one of the worst characters in American political history.

As to the thread. NO-ONE, not even Alexander the Great, could defeat Afgahnistan. There's nothing like a healthy dose of realism to make people see sense. We need to pull out of Afgahnistan now. After all the "Bad Guys" are hiding in Pakistan, Right ?.

What do people think the Taliban would do if we all pulled out? Come after us ?.

Forget the oil and gas lines. Ex Oil boss Karzaih was never going to deliver that to you, no matter what tale he spun.
17

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 06/10/2008 12:09:52
Mashimaro is spouting his usual demented musings to the consternation and amusement of ALL posters in the many threads that he infests.

Does he suffer from incipient insanity or is it just full-blown STUPIDITY?

The conflicts in Afghanistan have been going on for hundreds of years and at great loss to life - both civilian and military - and a solution will NEVER come.

Get used to it. Afghanistan is a lost cause and Canada has spent over $22 billion and lost almost 100 brave and loyal Canadian soldiers and we are just about FED UP with trying to bring law and order to this lawless ar*ehole of a country.
18

JayDeeTee,

06/10/2008 12:39:14
#16. Good post.
19

SouthernGent,

06/10/2008 12:40:27
#11
Weak!!

#12
And that would be the same Hopper that had/has a personal vendetta against the Air Force since Vietnam? You actually think he is unbiased? Do you always take your quotes from left wing web sites without verifying the information? But let me guess, you do verify it - by going to other left wing sites. Try looking at both sides.
20

SouthernGent,

06/10/2008 12:51:19
#17

You can do your own research. Look up Col. George Day, Col Quincy Collins, Lieutenant Commander David Wheat, or Congressman Sam Johnson. All were actually there with McCain, unlike the looser Hopper which was not.
21

SouthernGent,

06/10/2008 13:40:35
#13
Where do I start with a person whose contribution to society seems to consist of getting stoned and sponging off mommy.

So liberals THINK on their own.

-They THINK redistribution of wealth is a good idea because they are too lazy to get educated and earn it themselves.

-They THINK it is OK to kill innocent babies because they came up with a definition to remove the guilt.

-They THINK socialism is the accepted form of government, because they don't want to have to THINK and do it for themselves.

-They THINK unions are great for society, when in actuality they are a burden. Teachers unions that won't fire bad teachers result in shoddy education.

-They THINK we should all be tolerant of each other, but rarely practice what they preach. They are actually the most intolerant of all towards others that do not believe as they do, as evidenced by colleges and universitys that BAN rotc and others.

-Basically GC, they THINK what they are told to THINK as most don't want to lose their government handouts.

22

Number 6,

Germany 06/10/2008 14:07:34
Southern Gent, can you show one post, anywhere , where McCain talks about being tortured ...No you can't. Go check his appalling record of obstruction against all Vietnam investigations , and the release of detention files, especially his own.

Stop living in your stupid stars and stripes bubble
23

Postmark-55,

China, 06/10/2008 14:23:16
#10 Mashimaro,
They can always ask the Somali pirates for some tanks, I think that they have about 33 spare Russian tanks gathering dust as we speak.
I think the pirates won't actually give their personal help in the conflict, even they know that a fight in Afghanistan leads to a trip home in a body bag.
24

SouthernGent,

06/10/2008 14:38:37
#23
Insults - how sophmoric.

"I refused to go home," McCain said. "I was tortured for it. They broke my rib and rebroke my arm."

Now quit being lazy and find it yourself.
25

Number 6,

Germany 06/10/2008 14:49:43
Where are the insults ?. This is a man who's only concern was not for the US soldiers he put in danger with his cowardly broadcasts, but that his Father would find out. Disgusting.

Why would they torture him ? they knew immediatley he was the son of an Admiral, he told them himself, something he does not deny. Have you seen the pictures of him hugging Vietnamese who were known to have tortured and murdered Americans. He hugs them like old freinds . Have you seen them ?.

Drag yourself kicking and screaming into the world of reality, it's a lot different from wherever you are now, that's for sure.

I understand the next debate features questions from members of the public, that should be interesting if the subject comes up.
26

SouthernGent,

06/10/2008 15:09:32
"Drag yourself kicking and screaming into the world of reality, it's a lot different from wherever you are now, that's for sure"

Funny how your world of reality is the correct one. Says who - You?
27

Number 6,

Germany 06/10/2008 15:21:14
#27 I would put my reality up against yours anytime .
You seem in denial over McCain's unsuitability to
be your next "Commander in Chief" (shudder).The measure of the "Man". He returns from his Saigon holiday to find his wife has had the audacity to get herself crippled in an accident while he was gone.

Reaction? He divorces her for a younger and much wealthier model. Yup... that's my kind of President.
28

SouthernGent,

06/10/2008 15:30:27
#28
Your world is full of conspiracy theories, hearsay, and innuendo. And you have done a wonderful job of convincing yourself. I'll stay in my world if that is what I have to look forward to.
29

Number 6,

Germany 06/10/2008 15:53:22
#29 No , just the truth. Just because you choose not to believe these things does not make them false. I stand by all i have said and WILL supply links to prove it.

Are you aware he was reported in the Arizona media , when he sent a Mafia Boss a letter of apology for not being able to make his Birthday party?.

Or is that just conspiracy and innuendo? Of course you will stay in your bubble, but only until it bursts from the outside.

30

Mashimaro,

06/10/2008 15:57:00
#14 Cos Russia wouldn't be training, arming and supporting the Taleban like the Brits and Yanks did to the Soviets
31

Rob Bennett,

Point Piper Australia 06/10/2008 15:58:57
#20 SouthernGent
"Do you always take your quotes from left wing web sites"
Actually the video of the interview is all over the internet including You Tube...

Once again,
Q. Why would this Colonel lie?
A. He has no reason to lie, no reason whatsoever

Colonel Earl Pearson Hopper interview re: John McCain
Q. Do you think he would make a decent president?
A. Absolutely not! That would be the biggest mistake the voters of this country could make if they elected John McCain as president. John McCain doesn't have nerve enough to do anything. He would do whatever money PAID him to do, from the voters, that's all. He has no personal courage whatsoever
Q. Do you feel betrayed by McCain?
A. Absolutely. Every American should feel betrayed by McCain, and especially every military man and especially the pilots that flew in Vietnam after McCain was captured.
I've been to Hanoi. I've seen that sign that they put up for him where he was captured, there by the lake. The sign even had a mistake on it. They called him [said] that he was from the US Air Force. They also called him McCann, not McCain.
So everything dealing with that man is wrong, and it would be the worst mistake this country could make to nominate and select him president.
32

SouthernGent,

06/10/2008 18:19:42
#32
You are basing your opinions on one man. A man that hates the Air Force because he believes they covered up the true story about the death of his own son. You are basing your opinions on a man that wasn't even a pow. I gave you several men to look into, all there at the time. And you want us to believe one man who wasn't even there based on youtube? You may have yourself convinced, but your reasoning is flawed.
33

SouthernGent,

06/10/2008 18:22:25
#30
"Just because you choose not to believe these things does not make them false."

Doesn't make them true either.
34

Pilrig,

Livingston 07/10/2008 06:05:07
20 - (11) an undeniable fact.
35

Taz,

The Land of the Free. 07/10/2008 22:10:45
What would any Brit know about winning a war? Ya'al burned rubber so fast getting out of Basra I'm surprised you bunch haven’t yet left Afghanistan whilst announcing a victory.
36

Virginian,

USA 11/10/2008 02:15:54
#33 SouthernGent

Keep up the good work! You have the rabble on the run. Guess the truth hurts in this case.
37

Media 1,

Cape Town 22/10/2008 20:31:29
How do you actually win a war? Do you win if you kill more of them? Do you win if you get your oil cheaper?

 

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