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Hadden rewarded after bringing in Robinson



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Published Date: 10 March 2008
THERE was more than a touch of Englishness about Scotland's performance on Saturday, and not purely because the home side managed to out-muscle and out-smart the weightier English pack in the Murrayfield rain.
Andy Robinson was, in fact, a bigger part of the latest Calcutta Cup victory and English downfall than anyone let on last week. The Scotsman was told that he was playing no greater a role than was common for Scotland's pro team coaches, so either the likes of Hugh Campbell, Sean Lineen and Steve Bates have been more heavily involved than we realised previously, or that was simply cute camouflage to keep the former England coach from dominating headlines.

Two years ago, Robinson was on the receiving end as Hadden's first season in charge brought a stunning first Calcutta Cup triumph to Scotland in six years and proved the beginning of the end of Robinson's time at the England helm. This time, his style was written larger over the home forwards than the stuttering pack-horses that toiled to no avail in white jerseys at the weekend.

Robinson will term it mere 'tinkering', but the difference in Scotland's breakdown and rucking on Saturday was significant and more than a bit Edinburgh-like. There was more and quicker attacking of the area to the right of rucks, better ball presentation and moving of the point of attack away from the English forwards. Scottish ball came back slicker and English possession was regularly slowed up.

The variety of lineouts have also changed in the past two games from those which Scotland used in the World Cup and the first two matches of the tournament, though Scott MacLeod, who took over lineout-calling duties against Ireland and England, has also played an integral part.

Robinson spent a good bit of time with the Scottish forwards during the week, working mostly on their loose play and work at the breakdown. But rather than be used as a bat to beat the existing coaches with, this is a commendable example of Hadden's ability to pull in the resources he has available. Former Scotland back-rower John Beattie said in this newspaper after the Wales defeat that Robinson was a wasted resource at this moment in time if he was not brought into the national camp, and it is no secret that George Graham's expertise lies with the front five rather than back-row play.

Robinson was with the Scotland A team, who he then steered to a record Six Nations win with a 67-7 defeat of Ireland. There is a gulf between full Test and A levels, but their quick style of play at a time when the full side is struggling to unearth a clinical finish started tongues wagging. Hadden clearly thought similarly, and with no A team commitments nor Magners League matches, the Edinburgh coach was back last week. Alan Tait also said in Saturday's Scotsman that "no coach knows all the answers" and he contacted Brian Noble, Wigan's ex-Great Britain chief, for advice on defence.

Neither Noble nor Robinson turned Scotland from losers to winners at the weekend, but both aided the improvement. It ultimately came down to the trio of coaches and players, and Hadden pointed to the more astute play of his side as having brought him most pleasure at the weekend, notably when the heavens opened and changed pre-match plans.

He admitted: "We knew it was going to be a bit of a mixed bag, but just before kick-off we felt it was going to be dry and that it would be an opportunity to move the ball. Then the rain came, but we've trained in some horrendous weather during this championship and I thought our handling in the conditions was excellent.

"We just showed the right level of ambition in terms of moving the ball. You would think the heavier pack would have the edge in theses conditions, that they would make their weight tell in the contact areas, driving mauls and the scrummage, so it's an enormous tribute to our lads that that wasn't the case.

"I wouldn't say they (England] lacked commitment – they certainly came out firing – but the way we dealt with that technically was excellent. The biggest moment was the defensive lineout on our own line when they had two attempts to go for the driving maul. There's no doubt the game would have been different if England had got superiority in there. When they opted for the penalty kick at goal, the score said 3-3 but it was 1-0 to us. I felt we were in control in the second half. After it went to 15-3 I never felt we were going to lose."

Hadden knew that naming five forwards and just two specialist half-backs on the bench left him exposed to injuries, and when Rory Lamont went off after just 20 minutes the bench selection meant a shake-up of the back division. But he insisted: "I certainly wasn't panicking when Dan had to go on.

"You would have thought the conditions were absolutely tailor-made for Dan, although Chris's kicking from hand has improved recently and Dan didn't nail a couple of high balls, which was a surprise, but the rest of his game was pretty much immaculate. The trouble with our stand-offs is that they are so different and the team has to play differently with each; we have to adapt to the way they play. It would be nice to think as a coach that you could just change the stand-off to play the way you want, but it's not as simple as that.

"I think the team showed tremendous character to deal with the injuries (to Lamont and Ross Ford] at critical stages of the game."

He added: "We needed to win to sustain momentum because, by our standards, there's an incredible amount of young talent coming through. It would have been suicide to pick them today and put them out there against England. We needed a more experienced feel about the side today, with Jason (White] and Simon (Taylor] coming back, but it's absolutely vital that these guys keep the wins ticking over for the young guys who are coming through." He will, inevitably, want to finish with a confident win over an Italian side that, but for key errors in the opposition 22, might have shocked France yesterday, but he must again makes changes. That could open the door for more of that young talent.

With Ford out, Fergus Thomson is likely to be rewarded for his hour's display with a first Test start, while Simon Webster is an obvious candidate to replace Lamont, and if centre Nick De Luca is not fully fit to return then Ben Cairns, his Edinburgh teammate, could make his first Test appearance.

When asked if he felt he had been vindicated by the win, Hadden resisted a similar swipe to those immediately after the match, aimed at those of us critical of the earlier abject displays in this championship, and instead replied: "It's amazing what you can achieve if nobody cares who takes the credit."

That is a more fitting response to what was a clever move to involve the most experienced coach in Scotland, on a weekend of another terrific high point in the rollercoaster ride that comes with the position of Scotland head coach.

MORE CALCUTTA CUP COVERAGE...

Reliable Paterson puts boot in with a flawless display

MATCH REPORT: Written off Scotland step up to mark at last

Captain Vickery fumes at lack of discipline in English ranks

Stuart Bathgate: A blessed relief but no reason to get carried away


Woodward lays into coach for Cipriani affair

ENGLAND'S World Cup-winning coach Clive Woodward believes current head coach Brian Ashton made a "massive error" in his handling of the Danny Cipriani affair.

The Wasps full-back was dropped from the team in midweek after being pictured leaving a London nightclub in the early hours having dropped off some tickets for a friend.

However, Woodward, who led England to World Cup victory in 2003, believes Ashton got the whole thing out of perspective.

"I think it was an over-reaction, a massive over-reaction and I think they have got that totally wrong," he told Radio 5 Live's Sportsweek programme. "Cipriani is a highly professional person and someone England should be building their team around.

"To me he has not done anything wrong. I think they made a massive error there.

"If I dropped every player who had not got to by bed by one o'clock I wouldn't have had anyone in the team. They had a big opportunity to put their arm around him one on one but no more than that."

Woodward also believes the incident would have affected the rest of the squad, who put in a dismal performance in losing 15-9 to Scotland at Murrayfield.

"If you are in that team little things like that can slip in," added Woodward. "The overall performance was not just poor it was very, very poor."

He believes changes need to be made if England are to improve.

"It seems to me a bit 'cosy, cosy' for England. Wales have made tough calls and seem to have got it right," he said.

"We have to up the ante. It is brutal professional sport and sometimes you have to make tough decisions."

Wasps director of rugby Ian McGeechan praised Cipriani for his response, coming on for 20 minutes of a 29-25 victory over Harlequins.

"I was always going to bring him on. There are ways of dealing with things and we feel it could probably have been dealt with more sensitively," said McGeechan. "To take effectively his first cap away is a big call."

Lamont ruled out of Italy match after breaking bone in face

RORY Lamont will miss Scotland's final match in the RBS Six Nations Championship and could require surgery after suffering a facial fracture in Saturday's victory against England at Murrayfield.

Lamont received his injury in a clash with Iain Balshaw when he gathered a loose ball. SRU officials confirmed the fracture yesterday but refused to be any more specific than 'facial' in the description of what area has been affected.

The injury has been compared with that suffered by Chris Paterson against Samoa in 2004. Lamont is to undergo further assessment, but if the injury proves to be as bad as Paterson's, the 25-year-old is likely to face at least six weeks in rehabilitation and could be a doubt for the Tests with Argentina in June.

The winger was taken to Edinburgh Royal Infirmary for checks on Saturday and later discharged into the care of the Scotland medical team at the squad's Edinburgh hotel. Yesterday, the team doctor, James Robson, said: "Rory has made good progress from his concussion, however, scans have revealed he does have a facial fracture which will require further expert opinion and probable surgery."

With the benefit of hindsight Lamont will now regret trying to gather the ball with his hands on the slippery Murrayfield surface. Frank Hadden stated afterwards that it was a brave act which set the tone for the courageous Scottish display, while some Scottish supporters felt that Balshaw's decision to slide into the challenge feet-first was reckless.

The referee Jonathan Kaplan saw it as an innocuous act. The match's citing commissioner, John Charles from Wales, has until 5:15pm today to decide whether he views it any differently.

Ross Ford, the first-choice hooker, is also expected to miss the Italy match after suffering ankle ligament damage that could rule him out for anything between two weeks and two months.

Dr Robson stated: "Ross sustained damage to his right ankle ligaments during the first-half. He will require further assessment but, at this stage, he is unlikely to be available for selection for this week."

Hugo Southwell took a crack on his jaw when Jamie Noon caught him with his shoulder, and admitted afterwards he feared it was broken it. Dr Robson insisted this was nothing worse than the "usual bumps and bruises from a full-on Test match" and while all will be assessed again today, he expects the full-back, as well as Nikki Walker (ankle) and Paterson (arm), who picked up other knocks, to be fit for Italy.

The full article contains 2079 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 09 March 2008 11:48 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Calcutta Cup , Six Nations
 
1

Another King of Spain,

10/03/2008 01:23:00
Well done Scotland - now let's build on this. Target v Italy should be a 15point win.

And er.. Mr Hadden, can we start playing players in their best positions?

And if Dan Parks can't hack it (no pun intended), why pick him?
2

Scottabroad,

Ardross 10/03/2008 01:46:56
Parks should be dropped from the squad. I can't believe there's no-one more imaginative than him. Deport him back to Austrlaia - he wouldn't get a sniff at any of the Super 14 teams there.
3

Manila,

Makati 10/03/2008 05:17:17
Forwards did well, backs defended okay, but we did not have a sniff of a try. Plus, England were hellish.

Sorry, but I cannot get too excited quite yet.
4

,

10/03/2008 06:44:31
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
5

inoui,

Jomtien 10/03/2008 07:41:06
#2 Watched any super 14 lately? Doubt if any home nations would last the pace. With the new rules by the time the final quarter arrives the players have ran themselves to a stand still!
6

Spoot,

Third rock pool on the left 10/03/2008 07:56:55
One of yesterday's "national" (i.e., London based) papers published a photo of the Lamont/Balshaw collision with the caption "Rory Lamont's head makes contact with Ian Balshaw's knee".
7

FiBop,

Málaga 10/03/2008 08:18:49
What a great game, defiantly the best played this season!! It's even better when you are the only Scottish person in a bar surrounded by English to win! Yes we should have done better, scored a try at least but still.. Well done lads I'm proud of ya!!

Rory: hope you have a quick recovery, well played.
8

David Blaine, Mystery magical illusionist,

10/03/2008 08:32:56
Great result, but Dan Parks immaculate?

He nearly let England back into the game single handed with those duff kicks.

They won't change it for next week though. They should, but they won't.
9

David Blaine, Mystery magical illusionist,

10/03/2008 08:34:39
#1 that's ridiculous by the way, and class example of Scotland supporters believing the hype.

A 15 point win against Italy indeed. Any kind of win against Italy will be a real bonus. They're still favourites.
10

happy english,

London 10/03/2008 08:38:05
It is not that you were good it was because we were Dire.
11

jdships,

10/03/2008 08:43:45
"Dan didn't nail a couple of high balls, which was a surprise, but the rest of his game was pretty much immaculate. "

Mr Hadden you are having a laugh , surely ?
Once again Parkes demonstrated he is not "International Class" even for Scotland !!

Great display of grit and determination pity the English couldn't be a bit more magnanimous and admit they were beaten , on the day, by a better side.
Messt's Moore, Guscott, Inverdale , Vickery, Ashton et al showed themselves for what they are .
The first two have no place in a rugby commentry box given their bias for England at every game they are involved in .
I want to hear what is happening not what they , especially Moore, want to happen
12

jdships,

10/03/2008 08:48:05
10 Happy English

Yet another one from the Moore, Guscott et al club !!
Can you not just admit that , on the day, you were beaten by a better side .
" Magnonimity in defeat " doesn't seem to be a known phrase south of the border
13

Aghast,

Podebrady 10/03/2008 08:57:07
Rory Lamont is a wonderfully strong and brave player. I dont think he had any decision to do what he did. A very stupid comment about with the benefit of hindsight he wouldnt have gone to gather the ball. If you take that attitude then with the benefit of hindsight, then none of us who have played rugby will play it again or should ever have started playing. Balshaw should be punished because accident or not you should never go in feet first. The English crowd also played their part by singing Sweet Chariots as he lay on the ground - disgraceful as it was it help propel the Scottish ire on the park and through the crowd. Great result.
14

GrahamH,

Edinburgh 10/03/2008 09:08:22
#12. The BBC need to look at the pro English bias.

When England win the post match is all about their victory and nothing on the losing side

When they lose, it's all about why with scant regard for team that beat them.
15

Aghast,

Podebrady 10/03/2008 09:13:10
I think England played very very well. WHenever they play us they alway grow an inch taller and run a yard faster. I would like to commend them on their defence, a very succesful result for them to prevent us from scoring a try. Of course the better team one, thats usually the case, however England should congratulate themselves for playing as well as they could have - had they not then it would have been a cricket score...
16

Elvis G,

Edinburgh 10/03/2008 09:13:44
Selecting only two replacement backs is a further reason wht Hadden is flawed as a coach. Parks almost blew the game with some abysmal kicking and thankfully the forwards mostly kept the ball away from him. And the backs looked totally unimpressive after Paterson moved out to the wing.

And remember Hadden was the guy who dropped Paterson for the first game!

While Saturday's victory was well deserved we cannot rely on bad weather every so often to help us win the occasional game. We have still only scored one try this year and that has to change.

Robinson's influence was felt on Saturday so lets waste no time at the end of the season in ditching Hadden and bringing Robinson/Townsend and a few others on board.
17

Kate,

Zurich 10/03/2008 09:31:43
It was a long time coming but great when it happened and very much deserved. Well done to all.

English posters commenting here, be a little magnanimous, the better team won on the day!
18

TonyB,

10/03/2008 09:33:29
Must mention Andy Nicol in dispatches for fighting the Scottish corner yesterday in Italy. The 'highlights' of the game were shown after full time in the Italy game, these consisted of Jonny W kicking his world record points and then a debate on whether Jonny W was good enough to keep in the English side. It was left to Andy Nicol with approx 10 seconds of the broadcast left to mention that there were in fact 29 others on the pitch and that Jonny W was probably the worst of the lot. He just had time to say that credit should be given to the Scots for their performance. Greeted with silence by Mr Inverdale and Jonathon Davies- then cue closing credits.

Poor poor losers.
19

Venachar,

10/03/2008 09:34:10
As others have said the right type of game for the right type of conditions with an improved performance to boot - well at least from most of the backs.
However if quotes about the weather attributed to Mr Hadden are correct it was never going to be dry underfoot, what planet was he on last week.
I am not sure who Mr Hadden is referring to when he said that was for the supporters and not the critics, there are a lot of critics out there. I have never criticised Dan Parks, personally I think he is a better player than people give him credit for but he was the most ineffectual back on saturday. He should not be in the 22 after saturday. That there was no alternative on the bench is down to the coach.
The possibility of injuries to the backs was raised well before the match and they did happen.
Are people not allowed to express an opinion? Scott Hastings also thought that Simon Taylor has not played a good game in several years. When Simon Taylor is selected only having just come back from injury then people can and should ask questions on selection policy.
As for #1 wanting a 15 point win against Italy next week get real. We don't know what team will be selected. There has been nothing to indicate that we will get near the try line this season without giving away penalties.

I know who I would like to see in the team or on the bench but I bet that Barclay,Rennie, de Luca, Low, Cairns and Godman will be nowhere near the side.

To paraphrase Sir Matt Busby - supporters buy tickets they dont score (goals) tries!! However if the management balls it up they don't buy tickets.
20

Red Dykes,

Highland 10/03/2008 09:36:27
I cannot believe Hadden thought any of Parks' play was "immaculate" - the guy is dire, completely out of his depth, and each embarrassing performance compounds the stupidity of Hadden's obstinate defence of the man. The team did well and its no surprise that Robinson's influence sharpened things up.
21

daffy_b,

10/03/2008 09:41:27
Let's not get carried away here.

Firstly we were woeful in the previous international matches, so any improvement has been on the cards. Okay we beat England, but there are still a few issues here:-
1. England were woeful on Saturday, and if they had been on their game, we'd have lost.
2. Scottish back line was still not fully functioning as an attacking force. Graeme Morrison aside, there were few line breaks.
3. Hadden's player-pool choices are very poor, and the injury to Lamont showed this by ONLY being able to bring on Parks, who again was woeful (his Garryowens almost always went backwards).
4. Playing players out of position does not build a good team - players need to be confident in their roles (Webster who had a great defensive game on Saturday is still not a centre).
5. Patterson needs to be at 10 - until Parks came on Patterson was very good at 10. After Parks came on, I don't think I heard Patterson's name again.
6. Robinson's involvement showed a marked improvement in the Scottish ball retention and recycling - time for his involvement a great deal more.
7. The game on Saturday was ripe for a sniping unpredictable 10 (like Hook) - unfortunately we don't have one (unless Godman can rise to the occassion).

I still don't see anything from Scotland's performance on Saturday (except the return of some spirit), that would give the Italians any sleepless nights.
22

Stoobing,

London 10/03/2008 09:56:55
Agree with those preaching calm. And as for Hadden, let's PLEASE not forget his first brainwave this 6N was to drop Hogg and Paterson, and to leave Strokosch and Lawson - stand out performers in the top team in the toughest league in the world - out of the squad.

Let's hope De Luca and Cairns are in the squad this weekend with, presumably, Webster out on the wing. Morrison deserves another crack after an outstanding defensive display. Still not convinced on Nikki Walker - Thom Evans fit at the minute?
23

Galasbest,

10/03/2008 09:58:44
On Lamont going to ground rather than kicking the ball into touch, perhaps he remembered the French try inn the first match of the championship when Mr Parks attempted to kick the ball into touch. For thoes who chose to comment on the outcome and our future. If you had been told at the start of the campaign that you can win one game be honest --- which one would you chose ?
24

Stoobing,

London 10/03/2008 10:00:49
And the point on Andy Nicol is so true! Inverdale, Guscott etc's one eyed views on England winning / England losing are a ball ache for everyone.

Nicol had clearly had enough when he felt obliged to smack down Inverdale's utterly nonsenical irrelevant witterings on the conked out Wilkinson.
25

Red Dykes,

Highland 10/03/2008 10:01:41
Agree about Morrison - took his chance - Walker is ponderous and for a big guy lost the ball in the tackle far too easily....there must be somebody with pace somewhere.....Isn't Chambers a Scottish name?
26

AJ Fife,

10/03/2008 10:06:07
It would seem the English hoity toities are worse than Scotland's!

God must be an ex-Fettys man right enough!
27

imch,

10/03/2008 10:08:05
You know, I could make so many points about the match on Saturday, for a rugby fan it was an enthralling encounter and Scotland won virtually every battle, how the BBC could call it dull...!!?? I guess international rugby must now cater for the part time supporters who do not grasp the rules of the game and therefore cannot appreciate what they witnessed on Saturday.

I could go on about Balshaw and the fact he must be cited, or Noon and his deliberate block as he moved into Southwell's path, or Kaplan's refusal to deal with Lipman in the first 20 minutes despite repeated warnings. However, my lasting memory will be of Nathan Hines winding up Sheridan so much that we got penalty after penalty. The little pats on the back, the sarcastic compliments and the cheeky smiles were a delight, and were only really appreciated when I watched the match back yesterday, (you do miss a lot being at the game but it was worth it for a very special atmosphere and a quite magnificent second verse of FoS before kick off). I wanted Hines dropped for this match as I thought his lack of discipline would cost us, however he was fantastic and at the heart of everything Scotland did. Stand up and tack a bow big man.
28

snudge,

10/03/2008 10:14:09
The English are so bitter.
After the end of the Italy - France game. They should highlights of the Ireland - Wales game BUT failed to show any of the highlights of the Scotland – England game. Instead should clips of Johnny Wilkinsons poor performace against Scotland.
Frankly its pathetic.
I’m not one for being anti-English but seriously what the hell is that about.
Andy Nicol said “Why are we so obsessed about Wilkinson. There were 29 other better players on the pitch that day so why are we focusing on him. Scotland should be credited for there performance”. - John Inverdale didn’t say anything and carried on talking about Wilkinson. Tit.
29

Red Dykes,

Highland 10/03/2008 10:24:54
How can you take anyone seriously who's called "Jonny" - I saw him talking to Gabby Logan on Inside Sport and I've never heard such pretentious twaddle - the guys head's up his rectum
30

Joanna,

Cambs, England 10/03/2008 10:25:49
Some of you are in danger of sounding like bad winners!

Good result for Scotland but will the improvement be sustained?

It seems from some of the comments on here that it doesn't matter if you lose as long as you win against England. Seems a bit odd to me, but then I'll no doubt be labelled one of the 'bitter English' for it.

I suppose we should be flattered that we are so important to Scotland.

"There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about."
Oscar Wilde


31

MBR,

10/03/2008 10:27:05
#20 spot on
32

AJ Fife,

10/03/2008 10:33:42
Bitter Joanna#30,

A win is a win, and it's especially sweet when it's against our natural enemy! ;)
33

Red Dykes,

Highland 10/03/2008 10:36:49
* Joanna - Bad winners? Have you ever heard the BBC commentary team any time Engerland triumph - at anything...not just rugby......and the commentary team's post - match comments were woeful...obsessed with poor Johnno's disastrous day - I think he may have caught "Parks Disease"
34

Joanna,

Cambs, England 10/03/2008 10:37:24
Bitter AJ moi? Not at all.

I thought Scotland played well and much better than they have done in any previous matches in this 6 nations.

But, personally I thought the game was poor and nearly as much hard work to watch as it must have been to play. Kick, kick all the way makes for boring rugby. I was even cheering a potential break from Scotland in the second half - just so things might liven up a bit, but it was not to be.

Its fun being enemies isn't it? ;)
35

Joanna,

Cambs, England 10/03/2008 10:41:03
Red Dykes

I agree - the BBC has dumbed down on everything not just sport. I regularly write to complain about their news coverage but it doesn't seem to make any difference.

I read Jonny's column in the Times this morning (online if you want to look) and he does seem to be whining a bit. Where he was kicking to on Saturday goodness knows. Consistency is a problem with the England team and maybe poor leadership but its always too easy to blame the manager.
36

TonyB,

10/03/2008 10:43:43
30 - Joanne

Don't think there is much danger if us getting too carried away with ourselves given the standard of fair presented so far from Scotland. It's good to win, epsecially if the team start to get a taste for it, it's even better to do it against your oldest sporting rivals. The fact of the matter is that the only really bitter people are those that are only taking an interest in the health of the Scottish game because it has impacted on the team you support.
We are well aware of limitations and our status in the world game, I just wonder if you and the team you support are similarly inclined?
37

Joanna,

Cambs, England 10/03/2008 10:46:52
TonyB

Suggest you go and read some of the English newspaper sites and read the comments from the journos and the posters on there.

You might realise that we are all too aware of our team's limitations. You also might like to check back on here to some comments that I made last week, where I doubted if England would win the CC.
38

HEN BROON 5,

HAPPY SMILEY ALBA :o) 10/03/2008 10:55:47
10 happy english,London 10/03/2008 08:38:05......
You need to be carefull with those sour grapes old bean as they will rot your stomach, if you have one?

30 Joanna,Cambs, England 10/03/2008 10:25:49...... And we Joannes should equally be flattered that so many faux English trolls come on this Scottish newspaper forum to vent their spleen, just shows how important Scotland really is to England, and how the English really care what we think.

To the match. Balshaws tackle on Rory Lamont was illegal, dangerous, and a cynical cheap shot. At no point in a rugby players career are they taught to slide into a player who is in possesion with both knees up, for the very reason that we saw, and the potential for fatal results. Balshaw is lucky he is not in jail. He should have been red carded and cited.

If as the excusers of Balshaw are claiming it was an accident:

Why did he take the ball from the arms of an unconcious Lamont and play it?

Why did he not put the ball out of play, and ensure that Lamont received immediate treatment?

Why did he slide in feet first with his knees up instead of jumping over Lamont and coming back on side?

Lamont has been criticised for not kicking the ball out, rubbish. He was obeying his natural instinct as a rugby player and taking possesion of the ball with a view to keeping it in play and preventing the line out and attempted rolling maul by England.

White and Hines were immense and out muscled the thuggish tendency of England shocking them into humility and taking the game into their faces, which they do not like as they are to arrogant for their own good.

Well done lads you have made your nation very proud of you and SENT THEM HOME WARD TO THINK AGAIN :o)

ALBA GU BRATH.

39

Joanna,

Cambs, England 10/03/2008 10:58:23
Hen Broon

I'm not faux English - I'm the real thing - unlike some of the Scottish trolls on here.

Hysterical as always :) lol
40

Alex, Young Laird d' Drumchapel,

Madrid 10/03/2008 11:10:56
For once Scotland were street-wise and that has to be down to Robinson's influence. They played 'the game in front of them' instead of being wrapped up in self-doubt. Robinson got them thinking on their feet! Hadden needs to realise that and learn from it. It was smart of Hadden to bring in Robinson and he should be commended for taking that decision.

As for Balshaw, I think he should be cited too. Perhaps it wasn't malicious so I'm not sure about citing rules but it was dangerous and totally avoidable. And even if it was 'innocuous' it put Scotland at a disadvantage and lead to England's most sustained period of pressure - surely play should have been stopped and perhaps England given a scrum, no?

Scotland have something to build on so let's see if the right things from this match will be carried forward into the Italy game.
41

Trevor Cliche, Media Adviser, Camp Haddock,

10/03/2008 11:20:46
#26 Fettes?
42

Trevor Cliche, Media Adviser, Camp Haddock,

10/03/2008 11:21:41
ALL CREDIT TO THE BOYS
43

AJ Fife,

10/03/2008 11:27:40
#41,

In keeping with the public school theme, it was an innocent slip of the finger!
44

EDINBURGH'S FINEST,

PRESIDENT'S SUITE, MURRAYFIELD 10/03/2008 11:30:06
Come on now all of you behave yourselves, particularly when adressing our friends from sout of the border. #21 has it spot on. Scotland were absolute junk on saturday we were just lucky that england were worse than us on the day. The record shows a win against england - well done.
I am one of many who selects BBC South east when recording the matches so as I do not have to put up with that claptrap from the "Scottish comentators" I would have Brian Moore any time and i stood in 1990 on the terraces at Murrayfield swearing at the fat english hooker we all hated!!!! He is forthright, to the point and actually makes quite clever observations and is quite funny at times. I thought having seen the match now that he was very fair in his commentary. The game WAS crap, the brightest thing around Murrayfield WAS the sun, why do we need 2 tornadoes flying past - less sideshows get on with the game, england were terrible. The alternative is to have fuddy doddy "aye weer behind at the moment but as long as we score mare points than them in the sicind have well win" - THICKO Still have to suffer shergar lookalike Jill Douglas on the touchline though with her stupid interviews "Rory Lamont has just passed on the stretcher here going up the tunnel and looks in a bad way" OH IS THAT RIGHT? Did she not think that the capacity at Murrayfield and millions around the world saw that. As for the people that were booing/singing during the injury delay Moore was again right they were a DISGRACE and in my view should be identified and banned. All this rubbish about citing Bolshaw it was a 50:50 ball and an unfortunate accident due more than likely to the slippieness of the pitch rather than any intent. In any case since when in rugby do we start kicking the ball out like football when there is an injury. All you people that don't know what you are talking about should realise that the referee can stop the game at any time should player safety be in jeapordy. Cut the nationalistic claptrap
45

Brendon Haddock,

10/03/2008 11:32:13
Nobody has mentioned Mike Blair's outstanding performance on Saturday, it's not since Gavin Hastings that somebody has been so secure under the high ball and he always makes the right decision. He carries on like this he'll be the starting scrum half on the Lions Tour. I think the Scotland team see him as their number one player and they really listen to him. Just shows how stiped Matt Williams was putting him on the bench.

Thoughts anyone?
46

paul02,

London . 10/03/2008 11:35:52
Joanna . Good morning . Its amazing how many bravehearts have contributed this morning . But their silence before the match betrays the truth . Ofcourse they´ll be full of themselves now until after the match against Italy , which I suspect will not be as easy as the bravehearts think , then the venom will return . The match on Saturday was poor , wasn´t it ? Scotland deserved to win and were the better team . But Englands performance was a complete mystery to me . I didn´t expect it after Paris . Difficult to know what the problem was , but the team will get it right eventually I´m sure . I think Paris was a better indicator of that rather than Edinburgh . I think we´ll see a far better performance against Ireland . Cheers .
47

HEN BROON 5,

10/03/2008 11:38:11
#39 Joanna,Cambs, England 10/03/2008 10:58:23 .....no way are you the real deal J, a real English is much more arrogant than you are, you are a planted troll go on admit it, like the utter moron @ #44, you just pop in to stir things up a wee bit. I bet your real name is Hamish and you have a ginger beard :o)

The Scotsman are deploying some desperate tactics now to try and atttract more punters on line with a view to selling more of their dead tree issue but they will have to do much better.

ALBA GU BRATH.
48

johnnyscotsman,

Newcastle via Linlithgow 10/03/2008 11:39:04
A Pyrrhic victory is a victory with devastating cost to the victor. The phrase is an allusion to King Pyrrhus of Epirus, whose army suffered irreplaceable casualties in defeating the Romans at Heraclea in 280 BC and Asculum in 279 BC during the Pyrrhic War.

Pyrrhic victor(ies)

Scotland displayed a tremendous passion & appetite for the game, the tackling was immense & the victory throughly deserved, however………….

Scotland did not look like scoring a try & to be honest England were a pitiful shambles.

Previous games have seen France, Wales & Ireland record very comfortable victories over Scotland, once our opponents score a try & go 7 points up it is difficult (some say impossible) for Scotland to win the game due to current extreme difficulty in scoring tries.

If Andy Robinson has been more involved with the forwards & made such a difference in a short space of time couldn’t a similar tactic be used & someone be brought in to revitalise the backs?

Off course this would necessitate Hadden’s departure but his record over the last 2 years probably warrants a red card.

I think the Italy game is 50/50 however would a Scottish victory mean that Hadden gets another year & the long suffering fans putting up with Hadden’s conservative, side to side & ultimately futile back game plan.

I believe the above (victory v Italy) scenario to be very much a pyrrhic victory as Hadden’s continued stewardship of Scotland will cause our rugby fortunes untold damage.

Incidentally v Italy – Southwell, Danielli, De Luca, Morrison, Webster, Paterson, Blair, Taylor, Rennie, Strokosch, Hines, Macleod, Murray, Thomson, Jacobsen.
Reps – Godman, Cairns, Lawson, Hogg, White, Kerr, Hall.


49

HEN BROON 5,

HAPPY ALBA :o) 10/03/2008 11:46:30
46 paul02,London . 10/03/2008 11:35:52 ...the Irish will turn you lot into mince....you have been undone by your famous arrogance and underestimation of the desire of the Celtic nations to give you a lesson.

Scotland shocked you into defeat. Hines and White put in a massive performance and stunned you lot. Scotland played your game and ground out a win through sheer hard work and bloody minded doggedness. Scotland won this match, by defeating you, not because you did not turn up, but because we out gunned you in every department, apart from the dirty play demonstrated by Balshaw, who is a typical English thug.

#45 Brendon Haddock,10/03/2008 11:32:13 ...totally agree Blair was composed and responded well under some huge pressure and was rewarded by Man of The Match.

ALBA GU BRATH
50

Joanna,

Cambs, England 10/03/2008 11:52:07
:D :D Hen Broon you are funny!

A ginger beard ... that made me laugh :)

I wish the Scotsman were paying me - do you think there's a chance? Anyone on the staff care to comment?

Excellent post by Edinburgh's Finest @ 44 and by Brendan Haddock @ 45. I think Blair (no relation to the better known one I hope) is the man to watch on the Scotland team. He certainly deserved to get man of the match.

Hi Paul

Maybe dropping Ciprani upset the other players and lets face it Ashton doesn't exactly look inspirational does he? Pity Martin Johnson doesn't seem to want to get more involved - he had the guts and the passion.
51

paul02,

London . 10/03/2008 11:53:23
44 . Enjoyed your contribution . For myself I love the braveheart nonsense before and during the game but after I rather prefer an objective assessment . Your contribution is that . I agree I think Brian Moore is reasonably even handed . If you want bias try watching French TV coverage when France are playing . In so far as assessment of the match on Saturday , or any match ,is concerned Gavin Hastings and Ian Robertson will do for me . Being Scottish matters not one jot to me . They know their rugby and I´d like to see them much more on TV , perhaps Sky . Incidentally Hastings absolved Balshaw from foul play as just an accident . Christ I wish Balshaw would get angry . You´re right the match was dire . Scotland won and good luck to them . But , like England , there will have to an improvement next week otherwise it´ll be back to square one . Italy won´t be easy . Lastly the Scottish and English kits are just dreadful . Blue and white , thanks .
52

paul02,

London . 10/03/2008 11:57:01
HENBROON . Your supine silence before the game betrays your fears , though you may be full of bravado now . But really I prefer more sensible contributions than yours . Try to do better .
53

EDINBURGH'S FINEST,

MURRAYFIELD MEDICAL ROOM ON THE LAUGHING GAS 10/03/2008 11:58:58
#47 you are a TW*T

Away and change your kilt and replace your jimmy hat. You are a disgrace to Scotland. I hear you are quite a balanced person though - chips on both shoulders. No my name is not Hamish, no I do not have ginger hair. You obviously do not understand the inticacies on the game of Rugby Football and it's laws. I bet you live in a council house, I bet you are a scum bag, I bet you drink special brew, I bet you are a guide at edinburgh castle, i bet you eat deep fried haggis and diet coke, I bet you are a complete moron who has never even played the game. I bet you cannot afford the tickets to Murrayfield. LOSER.
54

Sir Saltire,

10/03/2008 12:01:15
People are saying things like "scoring a try", "scoring tries" and the like, and now I'm totally lost - what's a try? And for that matter, I read somewhere that England won 2-0 on line breaks and I thought I was on a fishing website by mistake.
55

Stoobing,

London 10/03/2008 12:04:35
#48 - are you Frank Hadden in disguise? Drop Ally Hogg for Rennie? And Kerr should never pull on a Scotland top again. Chunk's lack of ability is countered only by his love of giving away stupid penalties. Change please.

Danielli in for Walker? I'd like some genuine gas on the wings, so Webster and Evans (if fit) would do.
56

EDINBURGH'S FINEST,

HASTINGS ROOM, MURRAYFIELD STADIUM, EDINBURGH 10/03/2008 12:07:59
#51 Thank you.

I shall mention it next time I am speaking to young Hastings.

I am glad you like the braveheart stuff, guess it does beat the maypoles and the bells - I am a proud scot but I cringe when all that nonsense goes on. maybe Hen Broon (Mrs Brown to our english friends) is the choreographer for it all - SPELL IT BROON!!!!!!

I am away now for selection meeting, we fly out Thursday (on an ENGLISH charter airline Broon!) so need to dash.
57

Venachar,

10/03/2008 12:08:57
Johynnyscotsman

you are obviously not a supporter but a critic of Mr H.

Spot on with your assessment by the way, just wondered about the spelling of your name and the Newcastle bit,mmm.
58

paul02,

London . 10/03/2008 12:12:04
Joanna . Saturday was a mystery . I can´t explain it . Maybe there is unhappiness with the coaching . I expect though that one or two players are not up to the job , which might explain the absence of a plan B . The intensity of the Premier League and the game in Paris may have contributed to tiredness . I think too taking the captain off is always a bad sign .I think Ashtons idea of blooding young players into a settled team is the right one . We have lots of fine young talent in England , but I think it unwise to throw them in together , especially with NZ coming up . The Paris team is capable of doing well there and if it does so the idea will be to blood younger players for the autumn tests . Not rocket science ofcourse .
59

Stoobing,

London 10/03/2008 12:14:09
Paul and Joanna - did either of you consider before the game that the Scotland backrow and scrum half were significantly better players than your team had on offer? Or that the average punter would opt for Hines & Macleod over Shaw & Borthwick? Probably not. And I said that before the match.

England's malaise since 2003 is due to the dearth of quality forwards being produced, most notably in the backrow. Couple this to trademark lack of ambition with backs selection (no Simpson-Daniel, Tait or - regardless of nightclubbing - Cipriani!) and you have a turgid, uninspired team.

There's no mystery to England's performance, Paul. Take out a barely credible win v an overchanged French side and you have three miserable performances (or more accurately 4 woeful halves out of 6) by England in this 6N.

When England start to acknowledge that journeymen so-called-internationals like Borthwick, Lipman, Easter, Croft, Wigglesworth, Noon, Sackey and Balshaw don't suddenly become Dallaglio, Hill etc etc when they pull on an England shirt, you can start to reasonably assess the current crisis in English international rugby.
60

EDINBURGH'S FINEST,

KIT ROOM, MURRAYFIELD 10/03/2008 12:17:56
Strips - lets start a discussion on that. Although it perhaps looked like it Murrayfield was actually NOT a swimming pool on Saturday so WHY do we need go fast skin tight tops. If Wagga Wagga (Sir Nathan Hines newly appointed honourary head of sledging and taking the p*ss out of Sheridan for the SRU for our English friends) is 0.0001 seconds late in hitting a ruck it REALLY is not going to matter that much. i know we are into marketing etc., etc. lets get back to a main and change strip full stop. canterbury can still get their exposure but we do not need webbed panels in contrasting colours - I will start back to plain Blue tops, blue shorts and solid blue socks, change strip plain all white.
61

EDINBURGH'S FINEST,

STILL ON LAUGHING GAS, MURRAYFIELD 10/03/2008 12:23:30
Hen Broon - are you there? Come on speak to the people or are some of the words too big for you? Of course, this is a grown up web site not you tube, you just can't hack it can you. Cant't play with the big boys and girls - in your corporation school playground are you grunting away to your fellow jocks. Why do scum like you read the Scotsman anyway? Sun/Mirror/redtops are all you understand eh? Come on give us a laugh - enter the fray. Come ahead if you think your rich enough!!!!!!!1
62

Joanna,

Cambs, England 10/03/2008 12:24:36
Edinburgh's F

What do the players think about the strips? Do they find it easier to play in the skin-tight tops? Less pulling of the shirt maybe, because they must be harder to get a grip of than the old style.

Colours I agree Scotland look better in the plain Blue without the grey/silver stripes.

Stobbing

Good comment and I agree England have been OK, but only in patches since the 03 WC.
63

johnnyscotsman,

Newcastle via Linlithgow 10/03/2008 12:25:56
Stoobing -

I assume the Rome pitch will be significantly firmer than the pitch on Saturday, we need to win the breakdown & Rennie is a genuine 7 & has been sensational in the loose for Edinburgh this year. Danielli is a scorer of tries a rare thing in the scottish game don't you think?
Whom do you suggest should be our front row options?

Venachar -

I have attended around 85% of home internationals over the past couple of decades, attended the World Cup in Australia & have been a regular Edinburgh watcher over the same period.
I see FH as the major issue hindering Scotland
Regarding your spelling issue, are you still hungover after Saturday?
I used to reside in Linlithgow but now in Newcastle!!!!

HAPPY TO HELP


64

Lederblix,

10/03/2008 12:26:16
Paul02 - are you the Paul that used to wind us up with your banter in the good old days of the SRU chatroom?
65

Trevor Cliche, Media Adviser, Camp Haddock,

10/03/2008 12:33:05
Yeah, Brian Moore and Eddie Butler are good, at least in my book. I like the fact they spend half their time squabbling - really adds amusement value to the match.
Anyone who says Mooro is biased is just wrong - he's very fair - Scotland have been crap recently, what should he have said, that they were brilliant? His column in the Torygraph is always a good read too.

Also, is it just me or did Dan Parks total lack of composure nearly allow England back into the game? Nothin personal, he's got some good touches as a player, but what's the justification for picking someone whose total lack of composure at that level basically gave away 6 cheap points?

He always looks like he's cr@pping his pants, his errors directly lead to tries against Argentina and France, and basically gifted England 6 points on Saturday when we were totally in the driving seat at 15-3. Unless some hot shot psychologist or manager (like young Mr Shinar ha ha ha!) can sit him down and unfry his decision making processes how can you carry on picking him? I gather he's a popular squad member, but still.......
66

paul02,

London. 10/03/2008 12:38:14
EDINBURGHS FINEST 56. Cor you´re one o´dem posh selector blokes aren´t you? You´ll be seeing Gavin ? I bet he´s a rich bloke ! I did mean what I said about GH and IR . I think they are lost to the public in the south , well GH is because IR is with the BBC . A pity , Scottish certainly , but like most rugby pros bright and objective . Have a nice flight .
67

Stoobing,

London 10/03/2008 12:39:17
johnnyscotsman - like your thinking on Rennie, but feel our backrow should be as was last Saturday. Rennie is welcome to Brown's place in the squad though, with White there too.

Our front row is a joke. Euan Murray appears to be 20st of nothing, but I'd keep him and Thomson (obviously). Dickinson will hopefully benefit at Gloucester now he's getting some game time but feel he (and Craig Smith) have more of a shout at starting than wee Chunk, or Kerr.
68

Stoobing,

London 10/03/2008 12:41:33
Another thing - our lineout is consistently woeful too, so why not put White in with Hines from the start, and try to play short, safe lineout all day v Italy? Imagine Hines, White and Strokosch rampaging around all day, with Taylor and Hogg helping out?
69

paul02,

London . 10/03/2008 12:42:40
LEDERBIX . 64 . I don´t think I am . I haven´t got enough about to wind anybody up . I´ve not even heard of the SRU chatroom . But I´ll see what I can do . Cheers .
70

EDINBURGH'S FINEST,

HOME DRESSING ROOM, MURRAYFIELD 10/03/2008 12:42:55
#62 Joanna

The players really do not have much of a say, they are picked for scotland and handed their jersey. I do know that Wagga Wagga likes it tight. Dan Parks likes his tight. The wingers like the ribbed bits for grip and sensation. Props hate them, back row like it tight so they can show off their muscles.
Interesting from a females point of view - do you like it tight?
71

Scotch on the rocks,

London 10/03/2008 12:43:16
#30. You are right. There are a few too many smug comments - a bit like watching Jeremy Guscott and his BBC friends. Nevertheless, two wrongs don't make a right.

We play Italy in 5 days, so let's move on and look forward. The way to beat Italy is through the backs (as shown by Wales). Our backs helped us beat Ireland A by 10 tries to 1 with Morrison and Cairns to the fore. Get them in the centres for the Italy game outside Blair and Paterson (#20 - your selection is right) and let's end the tournament with a flourish.
72

EDINBURGH'S FINEST,

MURRAYFIELD 10/03/2008 12:45:18
#69 For information people the SRU chat room was dropped as there has been too much anti christ (hadden) chat over the past few months and they thought it would upset his holiness.
73

Scotch on the rocks,

London 10/03/2008 12:46:04
#22's selection looks right for the backs (not #20)
74

rab36,

10/03/2008 12:46:08
Great day out on Saturday. Poor game in general, but that didn't matter. Even with Danny-Boy on the Park, attempting to single-handedly lose the game for us, with his pointless kicking from hand (although I'll give him his dues for his long-range penalty).

One of the funniest things was after the game, I popped back up the exit to have a final look round the emptying stadium, to see some of the England players warming-down.....to the strains of "We Are The Champions" over the tannoy!!! Superb!!

Just the one change for Saturday - Webster onto the wing and DeLuca back in at centre, although I'd like to see some of the younger players, such as Cairns, Godman and Rennie get a chance. I still think we'll struggle against Italy, and will be grateful for a narrow victory.
75

GP,

10/03/2008 12:50:18
27# & 59# spot on.
The rest? mostly rubbish.
It rained! both teams affected the same.
Balshaw - an accident yes but preventable. He should not be going in feet or knees first. coward!
Noon - by jumping into and using his shoulder as a weapon should be cited. coward!

Parks - very poor
Hines - supreme wound up Sheridan and co to great effect.
Paterson - world class kicker.
Blair - played well.

Vanikolo - sorry about the spelling maybe it is
"diet kola" as he was kept under tab.

The game was excellent pity the commentators can't see past dry grass and no wind. This is the UK and we get bad weather no and again.
As for those who think kicking has little or no part to play - surely you forget Englands world cup win plus the many many times that they singly relied on the boot to win games. Starting from the cheat Rob Andrew's penalty in the semi final RWC at Murrayfield.

Don't be such sore losers and I ma really glad and happy to join in with Andy Robinson's wife's comment to Brian Moore.




76

EDINBURGH'S FINEST,

OFFICES, MURRAYFIELD 10/03/2008 12:51:31
#66
Not as glam as it sounds. Particularly when you have to select 22 from a bunch of useless ones (HALF OF WHOM ACTUALLY PLAY IN ENGLAND - SO ALL YOU NATIONALISTS SHUT THE ---K UP COZ IF IT WERE NOT FOR ENGLAND HALF OUR PLAYERS WOULD BE MISSING). Yes see Mr H at least 2 times a week - he is still the best remembered scottish rugby player of all time and from the amateur era wh