Faith through the doubts and dark days

SHE enjoys a room with a view, from which she can see both her Church's success as well as her own flaws.

The Rev SHEILAGH KESTING, 53, is sitting in her top-floor office in the headquarters of the Church of Scotland in George Street, Edinburgh, ready to grapple with issues of faith, doubt and depression in a candid interview.

The first female minister to be appointed Moderator of the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland – Dr Alison Elliot, an elder, held the role three years before – Ms Kesting has proven to be a voice of quiet reason during her period in office, which has seen her promoting relations between faiths, as well as tackling the scourge of sectarianism.

Over the festive period she invited Christian leaders to join her in issuing a Christmas message, which featured a plea for the environment and urged people "to see the beauty that is there and to hear the call for green alternatives as signals of hope for our planet".

Ms Kesting has endured her own dark days and speaks with candour of the difficulties of sustaining faith and tackling a job fraught with pressures.

Ms Kesting was raised in Stornoway, on Lewis, educated at Edinburgh University and inducted to Overtown Parish Church in Lanarkshire in 1980.

Her term at the top has earned her fans, as well as reminding her of the international respect in which her Church is held.

Q & A: THE REV SHEILAGH KESTING

AT THIS time of year, we are supposed to think of the child in the manger not just the presents under the tree, for people for whom it was Xmas and not Christmas – what are they missing out on?

The first thing I want to say about Christmas and the giving of gifts is that the people are striving to say something about love. The giving of gifts, in itself, is not wrong. It is a way of expressing love, of saying sorry for things that have gone wrong in the past year. There is something that reflects the giving of the gift of hope in the child that is at the centre of Christmas.

For me, what is missing, if it is only about presents, is the way that the story is told is profoundly political and it is also about the whole world, it's peace on earth and good will among all people on earth.

Does the Church of Scotland still have a deep-rooted role in Scottish society, in terms of leadership and acting as a moral compass, to use Gordon Brown's phrase?

Yes. I think it does.When you look at the Church and its infrastructure, although numbers are going down, we still cover the country, we still have people and resources to enable a whole lot of things to be done that are community-building, and work, for example, towards the eradication of poverty and the strengthening of our communities, both in urban and rural areas.

You touched on attendance figures going down – how great a concern is that for you?

I think it is very difficult for people, particularly the ministers, when they see numbers going down and the temptation is to feel that you are failing. If you are thinking institutionally then yes, numbers count. From my perspective, in terms of a faith community, I don't think numbers count. What does matter is the extent to which people are able to express their faith, the way they live their lives, the example they give, that to me is the key. The numbers take care of themselves.



This year we have seen the success of a number of books such as God Is Not Great and The God Delusion. Do you think we are becoming increasingly secular as a society or moving away from God?

I am not convinced we are moving away from the idea of God. People may not use God language but I think people still have a spiritual space and have a perception of something that is beyond themselves. They may not use religious language, but I think it is there. I'm not quite sure what is behind the success of these books, because in many ways the God that they are rubbishing is the God that I would rubbish too. It is a distortion of Christian faith that they are talking about.

Would you elaborate on that?

I have to say first of all that I have not read the books, which I probably ought to have done. My understanding of it, certainly, is that it would not be the God that I would be believing in. Because my God is not an interventionist God that comes in and stops things from happening or makes things happen that would not normally happen. It seems to me that the God I encounter is a God that I meet in relationships to other people. There is not a seeking of power, but a trying to address issues related to unfairness and injustice and that side of life.

Your God is not a God of miracles?

I'm not going to say that things out of the ordinary never happen. I'm not a physicist. Obviously, things out of the ordinary can happen, but I certainly don't believe in a God that suddenly says there won't be war or this person's cancer will be healed but this one won't. I just couldn't believe in that kind of God.

Where I would see God in natural disasters is in the response that it brings from people. The amount of care that people show in supporting people through hard times, the resilience. The hope of people that gets them through personal tragedy. These are the signs of a loving, caring God.

How would you describe your most profound spiritual experience?

I can't pinpoint one particular thing that (makes me think]: 'Oh yes, God was there,' in a way that he wasn't somewhere else. There are moments when I have been with people where you just feel that it has been a special moment. It's hard to put your finger on it and you could just have been talking about, not quite the weather, a relaxed conversation, but you felt that that moment mattered and the fact that it had happened left somebody feeling better, more composed, whatever.

There are also moments of intense beauty when I am very aware of God as creator – I appreciate the beauty in my surroundings.

Do you have doubts?

Absolutely. Sometimes I think: "What is this about?" Sometimes I think: "Am I really deluding myself?" Sometimes it is just that I lack conviction. I do tend to be somebody who has periods when I am quite low. When you are low it's actually hard then to remember what the faith is about and how it is there to support you in times of darkness.

Yes, I do go through periods of doubt. I work on, and usually it's people that get me out of it. That is a reminder to me just how important it is to be in connection with people.

The temptation is to hide away and I do that, but I have never been bad enough that I have not been able to keep going and force myself into company. That eventually allows me to work it out. Sometimes it can be a walk, again getting in contact with creation, or the beauty around me. Again, I have never been bad enough that I have not been able to respond to that.



Just to clarify, are you saying that you suffer bouts of depression?

Mild. It has never been bad enough that I haven't been able to do something about it. I haven't needed help for that, but it does mean I have an inkling as to what it might be like to lose it completely.

It's just part of my personality – it's like the weather and sometimes it appears to be affected by the weather (laughs).

Sometimes music helps – I listen to a lot of music.

This year you became the first female minister to become Moderator of the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland. There are still many religions for whom the ministry is forbidden for women. What do you think they are missing out on?

I think (they miss out] on completeness. I am not sure what women bring that is not given by some men. And I'm not sure what men bring that isn't given by some women.

If you only have males you are missing out on whatever that mix is that women offer.

As we go into 2008, what are the things that cause you concern about Scottish society today?

The extent and depth of poverty in some areas and how those in poverty are disproportionately affected by other aspects, like addiction, housing. There is a whole cluster of issues that are more intense in poorer communities.

During your period as Moderator, what have you learned about the church from this position that you might not have known before?

I certainly learned – well I knew it, but it has been reinforced – the extent to which the Church of Scotland is respected. Not just in Scotland and the UK but around the world. That has been encouraging, but it also lays on responsibilities to realise that and to be faithful to that and build on it.

What have you learned about yourself?

That I do not work well under pressure (laughs). Which is kind of hard in this job. I just find myself getting extremely panicky when I find I have too much to do. When I get space to prepare a thing and feel I'm well prepared in advance I have time to enjoy it. I feel relaxed.

Do you believe sectarianism is still a major cause for concern, or do you think it is withering on the vine and will eventually pass away?

It is still a concern. It is less obvious than it used to be, but it is certainly still there and therefore we need to be alert and do what we can to undermine it. I think what is hopeful is that the churches are addressing it, the Scottish Government is addressing it and there are various other organisations that are addressing it and they are doing this together.

The churches, where in the past they would have been seen as part of the problem, we hope, now are being seen as part of the solution.