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Council tax freeze across Scotland counts as success for government



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Published Date: 15 February 2008
COUNCIL tax rates were yesterday frozen in most of Scotland's local authority areas in a move which will be seen as a major success story for Alex Salmond.
More than half the country's authorities unveiled their budgets for the coming year yesterday and said their concordat with the Scottish Government enabled them to avoid tax hikes while maintaining front-line services.

The government had offered £70 million of funding to councils willing to freeze council tax as part of its plans to ultimately abolish the levy.

West Dunbartonshire took the unprecedented step of pledging a three-year halt. Seven other councils have already agreed a freeze and among the others to join them yesterday were Moray, South Ayrshire, Borders and East Renfrewshire.

All said they would be able to achieve it by efficiencies away from the front line, such as closer working between departments and natural wastage.

Moray Council has introduced more energy-efficient street lighting and reduced postage costs by finding alternative ways to issue payslips.

East Renfrewshire Council has got departments working more closely together to make better use of resources.

But unions warned teacher cuts would be inevitable to balance the books – and as education made up half the budget, it would be the first to be hit.

School boards in Aberdeen had already revealed that an accumulation of swingeing cuts over recent years had forced head teachers to consider drastic savings. And last night, the city council confirmed it would have to cut services by £27,000. The city has the highest tax rate – £1,230 for band D – and the Lib Dem/SNP administration vowed to fight for more cash from the Scottish Government.

East Lothian Council announced efficiency savings earlier this week, and the head of Musselburgh Grammar School told parents in advance this would cause problems.

Bill McGregor, general secretary of the Head Teachers Association Scotland, said there were still fears the pressure would be passed on to teachers. He said: "School funding has been cut to the bone. All that's left now is to cut teaching posts."

But Highland Council – which agreed a budget increase of 4.7 per cent but needs efficiency savings of £7.9 million – pulled back from anticipated cuts in teaching posts and to a care charity.

It scrapped plans which would have seen an increase in the number of pupils per teacher in small rural primary schools which, it was claimed, could have seen a loss of up to 40-50 teachers.

Instead, it will carry out a review of staffing levels across the council in time for the 2009-10 budget.

It also gave a stay of execution to the Highland Community Care Forum (HCCF) by deferring a decision to reduce core funding of £150,000.

Other councils who set their budgets yesterday were Aberdeenshire, Argyll & Bute, Dundee City, East Ayrshire, East Dunbartonshire, East Renfrewshire, Fife, Inverclyde, North Lanarkshire, Orkney, Perth & Kinross, Renfrewshire, South Ayrshire, South Lanarkshire and West Dunbartonshire.

John Swinney, the finance secretary, said the mass freeze was "welcome news for taxpayers across Scotland who have borne unacceptable and punishing rises in the council tax over recent years".

He added: "We have given local government the opportunity to deliver the services their constituents deserve by providing record funding and giving councils more freedom to spend their money to meet local needs and deliver national priorities."

DEAL WITH LOCAL AUTHORITIES A COUP FOR SNP
THE historic concordat between local authorities and the Scottish Government was agreed last year, in a major coup for the Nationalist administration.

John Swinney, the finance secretary, described it as a "transformation in the relationship between local and national government (which] will free councils from micromanagement and central planning".

As well as giving councils £70 million to freeze council tax levels, it gives local authorities more flexibility over how they spend their cash. The agreement means councils will be able to keep any savings they make and gives the 32 local authorities an extra £101 million over three years.

Revenue funding – the largest part of the local government settlement – will total £31.8 billion over the three years, an increase of 12.7 per cent over that period.

The full article contains 707 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 15 February 2008 12:05 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Council tax
 
1

Ayrshire Scot™ ,

15/02/2008 00:02:36
I wonder if the people who will get sacked as part of the inevitable cutbacks will think this is a success.
2

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 15/02/2008 00:08:46
The Government is to be congratulated in helping local authorities to freeze the coucil tax. Now we need the timetable for scrapping it completely, as per the Government's election manifesto.
3

The poster formerly known as "A with circumflex",

. . . . Roger 15/02/2008 00:13:19
Will this be the deleted thread of the day?
4

The poster formerly known as "A with circumflex",

. . . Irrelevant 15/02/2008 00:16:25
Will this be the deleted thread of the day?
5

Splashie,

15/02/2008 00:16:46
1. Fake, you seem to no grasp of this issue or understanding of arithmetic. The government has given councils additional funding to increase spending, without increasing the council tax.

Without the government action, councils would have increased the council tax and had the same funds.

Of not, the Labour chair of Cosla and councils of all parties have welcome the governments actions, as will all council tax payers.

Well done, another positive move by the SNP.
6

Jimmy the Pie,

15/02/2008 00:28:39
So do New Labour Sleaze and Corruption want tax rises to keep employment artificially high, to keep all their appointees in the custom to which they have become accustomed? The hard suffering tax payers deserve some consideration.
7

,

15/02/2008 00:50:16
Comment Removed By Administrator
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8

Conan the Librarian™,

15/02/2008 01:14:26
9
When it comes out of your poisoned keyboard; yes.
9

Wisnaeme,

15/02/2008 02:25:29
Hello fakie and AM2 squared.

Still hammering out cybernetic innuendo, disinformation and ecliptic prevarications I see. Ach weel, ah suppose yer harmless with yer haverings.

Meanwhile in the real world, outside yer realm of fantasies there are folk at work busily dismantling yer union.

I had a good day at the 'office' yesterday, very productive and I thought I'd give myself the pleasure of informing of that so.

So carry on with yer frantic but harmless dancing on yer keyboard. Yerself and yer cybernetic allusions of whatever for the benefit of who ever is deluded enough to believe in such drivel. Keeps ye occupied while others are going about their beezness with more tangible results than even cybernetic numpties could possibly be in expectation of.

Have a nice day.
.
10

,

15/02/2008 03:17:22
Comment Removed By Administrator
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11

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta 15/02/2008 03:43:53
As well as giving councils £70 million to freeze council tax levels,
----------------------------------------

Hey dudes,
Our US Washington politicians spend that much on petty cash for lunches, at fancy resturants.

Why sweat the petty cash,Or and try to make a big political statement on it.

But that's the SNP mentality for you. A total loser Org.

GC




12

Advance Alba,

edinburgh 15/02/2008 03:50:27
Be careful about throwing around the quality of NAZIdom, #7 + 9. It is a level of debate more than one can play at. If you want to hear about Nazi style politics, there are plenty of instances to found far away from the SNP.
13

,

15/02/2008 04:11:15
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14

,

15/02/2008 04:11:17
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15

somerferg,

oz 15/02/2008 04:54:00
Excellent news and hopefully will lead to an end to all the 'gravy train' Numpty labour administrations around the country.

AM2 - your posts are ridiculous as usual and if you don't mind me saying so smack of desperation - don't worry I'm sure there will be somewhere nice for you and all your ilk to go - perhaps Madagasgar (oops given the secret away)

GC - oh dear what a shame you come from a country that produced so many clever people - I guess DUDE you are just the exception that proves the rule!
16

Richardinho,

15/02/2008 05:16:47
I can honestly say that I don't give a damn about council workers being sacked if my tax bill goes down. It will force the rest to work harder. I have worked in local government and I know that most of them are lazy barstewards.

Whenever I hear someone droning on about 'social justice' I want to punch them really hard.
It is time we started cutting out the cancer of socialism out of this country.
17

donald,

glasgow 15/02/2008 05:58:34
New Labour has more in common with he British National Party than any other party, including the Old Tories.
18

Pundit,

Glasgow 15/02/2008 06:52:44
Council Tax frozen for this year - sounds like agood thing to me, COSLA think its a good thing, most councils think its a good thing, in fact it is difficult to see a down side.
19

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 15/02/2008 07:15:29
What are we doing without so that this freeze goes ahead?
20

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 15/02/2008 08:01:35
Illegal wars of foreign nations?
21

Tracy C,

Aberdeen 15/02/2008 08:20:29
Its fine saying that council tax has been frozen but what about the cuts to keep the spending to the same limit - some £30m in Aberdeen!
22

thinking,

Scotland 15/02/2008 08:29:47
If the Councils are receiving extra funding from the Scottish Executive instead of the extra through increasing council tax why are they cutting back?
23

beckypumps1,

Fife 15/02/2008 08:31:36
13
What are dudes?
Are you suggesting American politicians spend too much money on food?
24

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 15/02/2008 08:56:53
Just don't complain when services are cut - theres no such thing as a "free lunch" remember.

The councillors who have allowed themselves to be bullied by John Swinney into this corner should now explain the full implications of accepting his "bribe"?
25

Citylocal Fife,

Citylocal Fife News Room 15/02/2008 08:57:14
Don't forget how much tax Alistair Darling rips out of this country (Scotland). We do not get back anywhere near what we put in.
26

Richard Head,

15/02/2008 08:57:35
It's all smoke and mirrors really.
Worse roads and further service cuts will follow.
27

Gothic Rose,

15/02/2008 09:10:32
What I do not understand is,why does it take cuts before,Depts. can improve thier efficiency and organization.?
28

Number 6,

Germany 15/02/2008 09:11:30
Well done again the SNP. Clear daylight between their pro-active initiatives and labour's hand wringing. Those councils threatening teacher cutbacks should be audited, I am sure we would find plenty of needless , politically correct spending going on. This kind of disgusting black-mail must be halted in its pathetic tracks.

If a council is so badly run that it is incapable of
correctly budgeting for something as crucial as education, then I would suggest they are not "Fit for purpose".
29

Phil C,

15/02/2008 09:14:11
Stories presented like this are a red rag to the unionist bull. They can't even accept the win-win situation being offered, even though the funding comes from the fairer source of central funding.

I don't expect Labourites to attempt to understand the basics of local funding. They're far too set in their destructive and self-obsessed ways. But for Liberals (#26) to moan, when the replacement of Council Tax by a local income tax is the goal, takes the biscuit!
30

Duncan in Edinburgh,

15/02/2008 09:33:04
Yet more biased coverage from the Scotsman, eh Phil? Terrible how they spin every story against the SNP isn't it.

As long as people realise that they are still paying out the same money, just in different ways, then fine. What is worrying is the carte-blanche concordat that was necessary to get councils to agree to this. When some rabid Tory/SNP council cuts core services central government will now be powerless to stop them.
31

Miss H,

15/02/2008 09:34:40
Where is Walter when we need him?
32

megz,

glasgow 15/02/2008 09:35:56
OK here is what my counil say re the freeze

http://tinyurl.com/2
m59lw

Front line services will see no reductions and there are no compulsory redundancies.

What is your council saying??


33

,

15/02/2008 09:36:40
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34

puskas,

East Kilbide 15/02/2008 09:38:19
No,13..

Your a wee devil ...
35

The Strategist,

15/02/2008 09:38:45
Well done the SNP..

The next step should be to see Council Tax go down every year and the way to achieve that is to cut the number of councils.
36

Miss H,

15/02/2008 09:39:17
32 Duncan under a PR system you will not get any 'rabid' councils unless the electorate is equally rabid. Most councils are not under majority control now and even those that are - like Glasgow - are trying hard to make the adjustment to a more inclusive way of working which takes on board the priorities of all elected members. I'm not saying it has all fallen into place in every council, it will take time and in some parts the old tribal loyalties are still paramount, but the culture of local government has changed forever and for the better.
37

Jackie Priest,

15/02/2008 09:39:41
#32

Well, Duncan, you might notice that the Scotsman doesn't say

"the council tax freeze IS a success"

but says it

"counts as" or "will be seen as" a success.

So, yes, this is coverage with bias, albeti they obviously can't get away with saying the council tax freeze is a failure, because it isn't.

But really, while I respect your views and your way of arguing them, I don't see how you can try and paint a negative picture of the freeze. It is a benefit to everyone on an individual and national level. There's really nothing to be said against it.
38

Lowest common denominator,

15/02/2008 09:40:39
Total madness. Swinney has just taken the money out the general tax pot to pay for the locals to be robbed of the information telling them how inefficient out councils are.

Presumably the councils will waste our extra tax monies again and then Swinney will claim as their was no visible rise he has achieved something.

Madness.
39

,

15/02/2008 09:40:45
Comment Removed By Administrator
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40

morris,

edinburgh 15/02/2008 09:44:19
Education accounts for half the budget according to the article?

Thats strange. I had always thought / seen Social Work listed as the major expenditure here in Lothian councils ,(maybe I am wrong of course)and that would presumably echo in most local authorities,although I could see why rural councils would need to operate small schools with maybe a handful of pupils and teachers further north and a disproportionate burden placed on them by Education.

1
I have heard nothing about compulsory redundancies and natural wastage seems to be what is intended as far as I can see.
In the case of falling school roles the number of teachers should fall in line, which of course frees them up for employment elsewhere.The total number of teachers available should match the demand failry accurately, and this demand is known in advance since children have to be born 5 years before they go to school (primary)and 12 or so at Secondary/High School.so if we have either a shortage or surplus of teachers then Central Government is to blame.The teaching colleges should be turning out teachers in numbers which meet deamnd and bearing in mind many teachers leave the proffession because of constant interference by the politicians plus earning capability which is higher elsewhere, then a surplus should be a rare commodity indeed.


Now WHO has been in charge of Central Government these last few years I wonder?Ah Yes LABOUR!

Theres no point criticising this unless you attribute responsibilty to where it belongs,not where Labour say it belongs. COSLA accpet this freeze,and most councils expenditure is governed by the grant coming from LONDON which finances 85% of total council expenditure,and that is part of the money you gave in taxes (but only got part of it back). Labour are experts at hazy mists of lies and deception.Thats no reason to vote for them,its the very opposite!
41

,

15/02/2008 09:46:42
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42

Duncan in Edinburgh,

15/02/2008 09:52:54
#38 Miss H I fear I've got a rabid council right here. The Lib Dem/SNP coalition of the unwilling in Edinburgh is foaming at the mouth at every turn, making bad decision after terrible decision. Ring-fencing was a crude but effective way of ensuring that core services were maintained, and locally accountable tax raising was a highly effective way of ensuring that decisions on service spending were able to be judged by the electorate. The SNP may have frozen the council tax bill and in so doing helped some of the poorer members of society - and I applaud that - but they have also reduced local accountability and put core services at greater risk, which I cannot applaud.
43

,

15/02/2008 09:53:43
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44

Duncan in Edinburgh,

15/02/2008 09:54:09
#39 Come off it. The entire article is positive about this SNP policy. You are tilting at windmills.
45

Major General Puffin-Stuff,

15/02/2008 09:54:23
AM2 -

NO BIG DEAL!!

13 GC

Do you have ANYTHING resembling a brain cell? Just one?
46

Keir Hardie,

Inverness 15/02/2008 10:03:31
The Highland Council - 10% reduction in structural maintenance,10% reduction in road surface renewal
47

Duncan in Edinburgh,

15/02/2008 10:06:45
#48 Well that shouldn't cause much of a problem with the extensive public transport network you have up there... oh.
48

morris,

edinburgh 15/02/2008 10:06:51
13

I wish you were a band.Id encourage you to embark upon a solo career and go and play with yourself.You really are the most tiresome pathetic abuse of space I have ever encountered. Why dont you stick your head in a pot of boiling water and make soup with it. I cant see it being any use for anything else.
49

GP,

15/02/2008 10:10:13
Let's hope this is the start of realism coming home.
Next year freeze council tax but provide no additional funds then the following year really bring them into the real world and cut back funding with the freeze in place. They want to be treated the same as commercial workers then so be it. Working improvements alongside redduced budgets is the normal in outisde industry.
It's time!
Natural wastage should take care of most the reductions in staffing I would expect. There will be a glut in the queue for redundancy or early retirement.
Local authorities can provide the same level of service as they do now , in fact I would expect and increase in service. These are the hard objectives to be set to all Local Authority chairmen. For too long they have milked the local tax payer based on their lack of imagination and improved stewardship.
Yes it is TIME!


50

morris,

edinburgh 15/02/2008 10:10:14
48

Yes okay,and your increase in council tax is what?
51

morris,

edinburgh 15/02/2008 10:26:18
43

Apart from anything else the NAZI party were anything BUT nationalist or socialist.They were imperialist empire builders of a distinctly right wing fascist nature,and politically opposite of everything the SNP stand for. It would certainly be a Labour supporter or one of the Loony Left parties possibly, but a distinctly thick one who would even resort to posting something as dumb as that. I'm convinced its not Am2 even though I never actually read what it said.Unless Foulkes has been on the jungle juice again?

Most people would agree that theres not much between the three Unionist parties to choose from as they all try to capture the middle ground in an attempt at supremacy. The Tories have diluted slightly in an attempt to recover votes. The New Labour Party have moved right because they know they cannot win in England unless they stay to the right of centre,and at the moment look like getting their butts kicked anyway. The Lib Dems I would have to say are much the same as they always were,the problem is I'm not exactly sure where that is !They seem to try to be all things to all men a bit like a chameleon but at least they are arguably sometimes more left wing than Labour.Thats not saying a lot.
52

megz,

glasgow 15/02/2008 10:30:38
it is funny to think that lib dems once had power (well til labour came along and it was all over for them)
53

Transparent?,

Scotland 15/02/2008 10:30:53
How does the total annual Council Tax, received by councils, compare with the £70million they have been offered? Anybody have this number?
54

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 15/02/2008 10:32:23
Less tax, less teachers. Sounds fair enough, if that's what we want.
55

megz,

glasgow 15/02/2008 10:35:42
The City of Edinburgh Council will consider a recommendation from the Administration to a freeze on Council Tax for 2008/09 following extensive analysis of the deal offered to the local authorities by the Scottish Government. To raise the £6.898 million offered by the Scottish Government we would have had to raise Council Tax by 3.15%. dunno about everywhere else. but i'd imagine it would be something similar.
56

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 15/02/2008 10:41:41
#57 megz

Yup, 3.15% sounds very similar to the rate of inflation.
57

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 15/02/2008 10:45:41
46

And you are being Mr Negative again why dont you try telling us when was the last time something positive was done about the council tax under Labour?
The Tories of course were all about the Poll tax.
Why are you always so negative to everything the SNP does even when its positive popular and beneficial to even yourself? cant you just give credit where credit is due? or are you just warped by party political dogma and incapable of any cohesive objective principles or thought?
Or are you just another grubby sad little cybertroll?
58

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 15/02/2008 10:45:43
#40

Yup, that just about sums it up.
59

Alan Reid,

NZ 15/02/2008 10:54:27
All in all a good deal done by the SNP. Proving once again that independance would only made Scotland a better place to live in for the Scots.
Well done Mr Salmond and the SNP, unionists tossers? eat my shorts!
60

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 15/02/2008 10:55:57
The article is saying that the Edinburgh government has Sucessfully persuaded local authorities to freeze the council tax, that's all. Jeez-o...
61

Jackie Priest,

15/02/2008 11:08:34
#46

Actually, you're right. In fact, the Scotsman seems to have warmed a little to the SNP in recent weeks.

62

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 15/02/2008 11:14:14
The Council Tax freeze has nothing to do with changing the local government tax system. It is purely Grandstanding. It Sounds Good, and no politician will stand in the way of a proposal that Sounds Good. However, it is a disguised tax cut, whether for local or Edinburgh government, and the results are still most unclear. So, we can have free care for the elderly (another Grandstanding excercise), smaller class sizes, no university tuition charges, free prescriptions, more police, and a tax cut. Rubbish.
63

Bermuda Bie,

Edinburgh 15/02/2008 11:14:48
41. AJ Fife
I just look forward to seeing AJ's drivel every morning. Spectacular is hardly a word I would use in reference to the Scottish Government ( the minority of which is SNP). Pedantic, sad, uninspiring sometimes ludicrous all seem more appropriate! But keep on dreaming AJ and Chubby Cheeks might achieve something good. (His wife hopes for ther same I understand)
64

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 15/02/2008 11:19:42
64

Muppet! the plan is to change the council tax system to a local income tax system which will take approx 2 to 3 years to implement the idea is to cap council tax rises until the transition can occur. Something that would never have occured with any of the other parties cos their controlled from London and anything they do up here they have to emulate down South and that wouldnt be practical.
Thats the difference in having your own Government as opposed to a foreign government looking after their own interests first.
65

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 15/02/2008 11:21:59
#66 Muppet

Ah I see! So Local Income Tax will also be capped?
66

 Ayrshire Scot™,

15/02/2008 11:23:02
26 Would that include the Lib Dem councils who have accepted the council tax freeze?

And what cuts - you are another one who can't do simple sums - the SNP have provided extra funding to councils, so they can maintain services without increasing council tax. The alternative would be either a council tax increase, or a freeze with cuts.

While Wendy and the Lib Dems were highlighting services in Edinburgh, perhaps Labour and the Lib Dems could explain the impact of Trams on other services - that was a political choice they made.
67

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 15/02/2008 11:24:15
#66 Muppet

So why, exactly, is a council tax freeze required in order to usher in a Local Income Tax?
68

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 15/02/2008 11:28:32
69

Why does the tax have to be increased while it being phased out? do you pay more for products passed their sell by date or less?
69

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 15/02/2008 11:30:52
69

Not only that but they can then bring in the local income tax at todays rates and not the rates they will be with increases over 2 to 3 years.
What a terrible idea.
70

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 15/02/2008 11:32:41
#70

Either for local, or Scottish services, it is a tax cut at the rate of inflation, and of course it will have implications. I'm all for it, but I would prefer to have a little bit of honesty from the politicians.
71

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 15/02/2008 11:35:00
72

Wouldnt we all.
72

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 15/02/2008 11:37:38
#73

Yes indeed. However, a tax-cut at the inflation-rate for 3 years sounds good.
73

Thistledhu,

Fife 15/02/2008 11:42:19
#18 point taken there is a good few lazy useless individuals in local goverment who are carried by there hard working collegues.

The problem is that any job losses will be sufferd by the hard working section of local goverment as the passengers tend to be fairly senior or influential in the Union or local Labour party often both therefore untouchable.
74

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 15/02/2008 11:49:26
It would be interesting if Westminster froze the funding for the Scottish Executive for 3 years...
75

mike3,

Midlands 15/02/2008 11:49:53
Where is the money being taken from to pay for this?



Prescription charges in England?
76

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 15/02/2008 11:51:42
74

It may be longer if the other parties get together to block the tax proposals or was it passed with the budget?
77

AJ Fife,

15/02/2008 11:51:47
Bermuda bi#65,

Thanks for that. As long as I know I get right on yer t*ts, I'll keep up my good work!
78

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 15/02/2008 11:53:33
76

Wouldnt it just adios union.
79

,

15/02/2008 11:54:43
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80

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 15/02/2008 11:55:29
77

We can but hope.
81

Sgurr,

15/02/2008 11:56:37
The real trick would be getting councils to run more efficiently. Nice to have a freeze, but to be honest, I'd rather see my money not wasted on endless diversity awareness training courses and the like, for staff. I have a funny feeling that the SNP is robbing peter to pay paul.
82

mike3,

Midlands 15/02/2008 11:57:32
"77

We can but hope."


at least you're honest
83

Miss H,

15/02/2008 12:01:11
72 - It is a tax cut for council tax payers but it is not a cut in the overall amount of money which is available to local government because it has been compensated for. It has been compensated for with money from central government which obviously comes from taxpayers so in reality if it is anything, it is a shifting of the burden rather than a cut. The point being that council tax - unlike income tax - is not based on ability to pay and therefore the continuous above-inflation increased that we saw under Labour and the Lib Dems had a tougher impact on those who are on low or fixed incomes than on the well off. It is the people on low and fixed incomes who will benefit the most from the council tax freeze which is why the Government has done it.

Labour at parliamentary level, inexplicably, now seem to be adopting a position of advocating council tax increases which not only sets them at odds with their council colleagues but also with many of their natural constituents - or people who would have been their natural constituents in years gone by.

It is further proof that they are not thinking ahead because having adopted a pro tax and spend position here they are going to have to do a complete change around when the SNP introduces proposals for a local income tax, supposing they are going to maintain their position of claiming that a local income tax is a tax on 'hardworking families'.
84

Miss H,

15/02/2008 12:08:29
84 I think you will see councils becoming more efficient through the fact that the government has lifted the ring fencing of money and has also shifted to outcome agreements with councils rather than requiring them to implement the various action plans set out by previous governments. That means the council will agree the desired outcomes with central government - but it is then up to them to decide how to achieve them. And in terms of efficiency savings, the fact that councils can keep the efficiency savings they make is an incentive to do the job properly and also increases the amount available for reinvestment.
85

Miss H,

15/02/2008 12:12:21
44 Duncan I think you know what my answer to that would be so I won't even bother...
86

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 15/02/2008 12:12:35
85

Actually I was being satirical.
87

Jimmy Jillikers,

Glasgow 15/02/2008 12:16:26
Have the SNP managed to leave more money in the working persons pocket?

I thought that was traditionally the Labour Party's battle cry.

OOPS ... sorry that was old Labour and not the capitalist New Labour that are in place now.
88

Duncan in Edinburgh,

15/02/2008 12:18:48
#59 Please stop calling me names, it is a very childish way to argue.

Here is what I said about the move to freeze council tax:

"The SNP may have frozen the council tax bill and in so doing helped some of the poorer members of society - and I applaud that - but they have also reduced local accountability and put core services at greater risk, which I cannot applaud."

This is a balanced response. I gave credit where it was due. I am glad that some of the poorer people in society will be helped by this move. I don't think it is in anyone's interest, however, to pretend that this is an act of largesse in isolation. The truth is that our overall tax burden continues to increase, that the concordat with local government has negative aspects for service quality, and that local accountability has been reduced as a result of these changes.

So I reverse the question - why are you always so positive to everything the SNP does even when it has an obvious downside? Or are you just warped by party political dogma and incapable of any cohesive objective principles or thought?
89

Bermuda Bie,

Edinburgh 15/02/2008 12:21:27
AJ 79
Far from it AJ - you make me chuckle!
90

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 15/02/2008 12:23:22
Miss H

Maybe you can explain what Swinney is playing at by introducing an increase in national pension contributions for the employees and a decrease in contributions from the employers?
I think he has made a bad mistake with this one. How is it possible to say that the new local income tax proposals are going to be beneficial because of its fairness in relation to ability to pay and then introduce a measure which uses this ability to pay to take more money for the national pension scheme?
This smacks of a Labour tax shift to me and it will to many others less sympathetic as well.
91

Duncan in Edinburgh,

15/02/2008 12:24:26
#87 Ah, I see, it's a question of faith. :-)

These outcome agreements which do not mandate spending on services will nonetheless manage to ensure delivery remains as good? How?
92

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 15/02/2008 12:26:45
91 Duncan

"The SNP may have frozen the council tax bill and in so doing helped some of the poorer members of society - and I applaud that - but they have also reduced local accountability and put core services at greater risk, which I cannot applaud."

You are being very vague and obtuse with yer arguments again Duncan how about fleshing this statement out with some detail or even evidence to give it credibility?

93

kimba,

15/02/2008 12:37:08
Hope you all appreciate the sacrifices we in England are making for you!
94

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 15/02/2008 12:40:13
96

No we dont maybe if you sacrificed a few more Englishmen we would be more appreciative.
95

,

15/02/2008 12:43:33
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
96

Alan B,

15/02/2008 12:44:16
I think this is a short term populist move, but avoids actually dealing with the underlying issues. If u freeze it this yr what happens next. Council will simply increase tax at a higher level in the future. The problem really is that councils have been increasing this tax at high levels over a period of time (way ahead of inflation). Ring fencing is all about setting national objectives rather than local ones.

Personally i think it would be better to move services to the sp level where things are better run centrally and then let councils run the rest without interference from central government. Education in many ways is a national service. While it is sensible to devolve day to day respsonbilities to schools, employment and exams are all currently nation wide. As such it may make sense to move education to be run directly from the sp in a decentralised way. This also would mean that there were more clear line of responsiblity. What advantage is there of councils getting involved in education.

In many ways much of what was done by the regional councils would be better done by the sp. Local government should be really for local issues.



97

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 15/02/2008 12:44:57
#86 Miss H

Ah, so the amount of funding that will be allocated to the Scottish Executive will be increased to account for the tax freeze and the rate of inflation?
98

kimba,

15/02/2008 12:44:58
i.e prescription charges-£6.85
council tax-up 4%
student loans-have to pay back every penny
Elderly care-if put in a elderly care residence,have to sell home to pay for it. WHY? so you in scotland can have your 28 billion courtesy of the scottish raj at westminster
99

,

15/02/2008 12:45:18
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
100

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 15/02/2008 12:47:16
99

How can it be a short term measure if its linked to the overall changes in the local tax system?
I dont know whether to laugh scream or spit.
101

The Tin Man,

Over the Rainbow 15/02/2008 12:49:39
#99

Your suggestion for more centralised decentralisation did make me chuckle :-)
102

AJ Fife,

15/02/2008 12:49:59
Bermuda bi#92,

I bet I chuckle more than you?
103

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 15/02/2008 12:52:44
100

No the way it works is we get an increase proportional to the increases given to local authorities thoughout the rest of the UK based on population ratios.
Its called the Barnett formula remember? but this increase was smaller this year cos the SNP had the audacity to win the election.
104

Duncan in Edinburgh,

15/02/2008 12:53:34
#98 What are you talking about? I had the same problem a few weeks ago and emailed the Scotsman and the postings were removed immediately.

You are being a wind-up merchant and a conspiracy theorist. AM2 is no more working for the Scotsman than I am.
105

Duncan in Edinburgh,

15/02/2008 12:54:50
#102 Stop it. You have grabbed hold of the wrong end of the stick, and are making a fool of yourself.
106

kimba,

15/02/2008 12:55:33
97. Maybe if you raised some of your own money and stopped relying on England we'd all be better off.