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Council tax under fire as SNP announces proposed new bills



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Published Date: 03 September 2008
FIRST Minister Alex Salmond today pressed ahead with plans to scrap the council tax in Scotland as he pledged to bring forward legislation in the coming Parliamentary year.
He also dared opposition MSPs to vote down the plan to replace it with a local income tax.

"I have no doubt Scotland will judge harshly any MSP who votes to keep the council tax in the face of the overwhelming benefit that would flow to millions of Scots", he told Parliament.

Mr Salmond issued the challenge when he set out the minority SNP administration's legislative programme for the coming year.

There will be 15 bills, including provisions to change licensing laws, include a proposed ban on the sale of alcohol to under-21s in off-licences and a minimum price for alcoholic drinks.

Other parts of the legislative programme include a Climate Change Bill – setting a target of reducing emissions by 80% by 2050 – a marine bill, a criminal justice bill – to change community punishments and making sure serious offenders are dealt with "firmly and effectively" in prison – and a bill to make it more difficult to close rural schools.

Replacing the council tax with a local income tax will be one of Mr Salmond's big challenges.

Labour and the Tories oppose the plan, and while the Lib Dems favour a local income tax, they are against a uniform 3p rate which will apply across Scotland under the SNP proposals.

Mr Salmond told MSPs: "Abolition of council tax will lift 85,000 individuals from poverty. And it will save the average Scottish family between £350 and £535 a year."

Labour said that while it would engage "constructively" on some parts of the legislation, like the environment, the local income tax plan was damaging and must be "dumped."

Acting Labour leader Cathy Jamieson said: "Alex Salmond says he didn't mind Thatcherite economics. Now he is bringing forward his very own tartan poll tax.

"Whatever Alex Salmond decides to call them, the SNP's tax plans will simultaneously make Scotland the highest-tax part of the UK and damage local services."

Tory leader Annabel Goldie said the proposed local income tax had been "comprehensively rubbished and ridiculed".

She also attacked the alcohol plans, saying: "Does the First Minister seriously intend to persevere with the ludicrous proposal that a responsible adult aged 20 can buy alcohol in the pub but can't take a bottle of wine home to celebrate the birth of his child?"

Lib Dem leader Tavish Scott said: "We want to see the abolition of the discredited council tax.

"Liberal Democrats want a genuinely local income tax and we look forward to working with the government to deliver that."

The full article contains 456 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 03 September 2008 1:14 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Council tax
 
1

sonofhamish,

edinburgh 03/09/2008 13:45:47
Getting rid of council tax is one thing I do agree with the SNP on. Council tax is inherently unfair and universally hated. It mystifies me why Labour and the Conservatives oppose it, for one thing the mechanism for collection exists which means ultimately we can slim down the bloated public sector and save money. Hmm maybe that is where the opposition lies...
2

sonofhamish,

edinburgh 03/09/2008 13:46:47
Lets not forget 50p of every £1 you pay in Council tax funds lavish public sector final salary pensions, oh and unlike the rest of us they can still take them at 60.
3

guenevere,

03/09/2008 13:51:51
Salmond will not get this bill past,thank god all other parties are against it.
4

dave yae fife,

03/09/2008 13:52:13
Getting rid of council tax is one thing I do agree with the SNP on. Council tax is inherently unfair and universally hated. It mystifies me why Labour and the Conservatives oppose it, for one thing the mechanism for collection exists which means ultimately we can slim down the bloated public sector and save money. Hmm maybe that is where the opposition lies...


I think it is because if implemened the vast majority of the population will benefit and the SNP will be even more popular.
5

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 03/09/2008 13:53:21
If Cathy Jamieson cannot see the difference between LIT and the Poll Tax she is even more stupid than I thought.
6

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 03/09/2008 13:53:47
#3 Not true. The Libdems support LIT.
7

crimsondynamo,

03/09/2008 13:57:19
Cathy Jamieson: "...local income tax would literally chop the legs out from underneath local councils..."

Ouch! That's gotta hurt!

What a moron.
8

"Hoots" Fandango,

03/09/2008 13:58:05
Why is that kimba?
9

guenevere,

03/09/2008 13:59:00
7. And what can the lib-dums do?
10

guenevere,

03/09/2008 14:04:05
9. "Kimba" the one that gets your shorts in a twist,wish i could say i was,but unfortunatly i'm not,but i do agree on the pathetic rhetoric of the nationalists.
11

dave yae fife,

03/09/2008 14:04:48
guenevere

That may be the SNP plan we all saw what happened with the budget vote. Labour were so afraid of the SNP withdarwing from goverment that they abstained as another election would have been the end for them.
12

,

03/09/2008 14:05:51
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13

,

03/09/2008 14:07:49
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14

guenevere,

03/09/2008 14:08:03
12. Think Cathy Jamieson is a bit stronger than Alexander,she will hold her own.
15

guenevere,

03/09/2008 14:09:42
14.No i am not, but she can get the nationalists so worked up,you fall for it every time.
16

dave yae fife,

03/09/2008 14:12:25
guenevere

You should take a trip up to Glenrothes and get a true feel for scotish politics. You may then stop uttering rubish on here all day long.
17

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 03/09/2008 14:16:39
#10 Vote for LIT?
18

A Clamper,

Edinburgh 03/09/2008 14:17:52
Bye bye hated Council Tax.
19

"Hoots" Fandango,

03/09/2008 14:19:14
A kimba by any other name.....
20

"Hoots" Fandango,

03/09/2008 14:20:35
11
guenevere,

9. "Kimba" the one that gets your shorts in a twist,wish i could say i was,but unfortunatly i'm not,but i do agree on the pathetic rhetoric of the nationalists."

Who said I was addressing you?
You are of course the beloved one.
21

,

03/09/2008 14:21:28
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22

,

03/09/2008 14:22:53
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23

8/10 Cats,

03/09/2008 14:25:20
Alex Salmond and the SNP are going to put your children to bed and tell them when to tell them to turn the telly off as part of his licensing laws.

Nanny State Mk II, the SNP years, suggest people should apply in writing to buy booze 2 weeks before they fancy a tipple.
24

,

03/09/2008 14:27:06
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25

guenevere,

03/09/2008 14:36:53
22. No. i'm really not.
26

dave yae fife,

03/09/2008 14:39:00
If you have not woked out the costs of LIT try the link bellow.

https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/en/Residents/YourHome/LocalTaxCalc/

Would save me £785 a year

27

MacGillicuddy,

03/09/2008 14:41:15
As a pensioner who wishes to remain in my current home I welcome the determination of the SNP to rid us of the iniquitous, grossly unfair, and totally discredited Council Tax. Direct taxation should be based on people's ability to pay and therefore linked to income.
28

guenevere,

03/09/2008 14:45:56
30. Indeed it should,but then we have this:-

The Scottish First Minister decided to press ahead with plans for local income tax despite warnings of a billion-pound 'black hole' in his figures and fierce opposition from business leaders and trade unions.
29

,

03/09/2008 14:48:35
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30

guenevere,

03/09/2008 14:50:08
However, Mr Salmond and his minority administration will struggle to push through his proposal for a local income tax, set at three pence in the pound, which he claims amounts to "the biggest tax cut in a generation".
They have admitted they will need to provide £281million of Executive funding as a local income tax will raise far less than council tax. Expert analysis claimed there was a £871million black hole in the figures and Mr Salmond would have to set the rate much higher.
31

guenevere,

03/09/2008 14:50:35
During a recent consultation, the CBI, the Institute of Directors and the Institute of Chartered Accountants in Scotland all lambasted the plan, claiming it would hurt business and lead to a brain drain south of the Border.
32

guenevere,

03/09/2008 14:52:05
32. And you are a fickin silly sod.
33

8/10 Cats,

03/09/2008 14:53:14
If 80% of people save £500+ quid, who picks up the bill?

The rich will leave, so not them in the longer terms. What services are being cut? There are not many you can cut, 70% of council tax goes on Public sector early retirement. So out of the remaining 30% that you need to more than half?

The fat wee sh**te would have been better tackling the pension crisis. But nooooo, he just needs to hobble up to his referendum in 2010, when it all explodes in 2011, who cares?
34

guenevere,

03/09/2008 14:54:02
"Whatever Alex Salmond decides to call them, the SNP's tax plans will simultaneously make Scotland the highest taxed part of the UK and damage local services."
35

,

03/09/2008 14:55:26
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36

dave yae fife,

03/09/2008 15:01:55
If 80% of people save £500+ quid, who picks up the bill?

The rich will leave, so not them in the longer terms. What services are being cut? There are not many you can cut, 70% of council tax goes on Public sector early retirement. So out of the remaining 30% that you need to more than half?

The fat wee sh**te would have been better tackling the pension crisis. But nooooo, he just needs to hobble up to his referendum in 2010, when it all explodes in 2011, who cares?

A lot of people with money in scotland live here cause they like it.

You don't no a lot about LA pensions do you

pension crisis ask Gordon Brown he created most of it.
37

englisher,

03/09/2008 15:11:07
I see the scotsman are deleting my posts - probably because I am english. I think I may complain to the PCC.
38

englisher,

03/09/2008 15:13:22
#35 guenevere - please don't call me that - i don't know you, you don't know me. That is not nice. I am going to complain about bullying and censorship from you and your scotsman racist newspaper...the only reason I can think of for deleting my posts is "being obviously english" - that is a major scandal. I bet the Mail would be interested in that regard.
39

guenevere,

03/09/2008 15:15:23
40.Don't talk such c--p
40

guenevere,

03/09/2008 15:16:57
41. I am English,but you are taking the p--s!
41

,

03/09/2008 15:17:08
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42

guenevere,

03/09/2008 15:18:47
41. make your mind up,one minute you support the scots,the next you are going to report them,for what?
43

sonofhamish,

edinburgh 03/09/2008 15:19:54
The next step is to get rid of business rates also which should logically follow. The end result being increased investment and business activity, higher employment and wages and thence more local income tax. Its how it works in the U.S.

44

sonofhamish,

edinburgh 03/09/2008 15:22:22
How anybody can possibly think that taxing people on the property they own - which for a lot of older people on pensions they could NEVER AFFORD TO BUY - instead of their ability to pay is utterly astounding.

The only beneficiary of this nonsense are low-productivity local government slackers i.e. the machinary needed to rate and collect it.

45

Nevsky,

Moscow 03/09/2008 15:23:23
41:

Deleting your posts because you are an idiot not because you are English.
46

8/10 Cats,

03/09/2008 15:33:16
Ghee'z maw free money 'n' that, ken whit awm sayin' likes.

Labour didnar ghee'z maw enuff money 'n' that for maw fags 'n' weed 'n' that. Noo, I votez for thaw esss.un.pee coz they said they'd gheee'z maw mare free money 'n' that.

Ken, whaw should eez hay tay pay for maw ane service or that likes, ken? That'z nay fare when I want tay spend maw money on fags and weed.
47

Raymond Thomas Brooke,

Leven England 03/09/2008 15:39:01
If LIT saves the average? family in Scotland upto £500.Has anyone said how many average families there are and equally how many above average families there are who will be paying extra and what are the lower and upper limits of their revised contribution.
48

whatisthis,

03/09/2008 15:41:39
This is one SNP policy I support. Frankly, I don't understand the opposition. The arguments put forward against it have been spurious and unconvincing.

The most coherent argument put against it was that London would not pay back the expected council tax benefits from general taxation, totalling 600 million, that currently goes to those in receipt of benefit. This would mean that the rest of us would be paying more than 30p in the £.

That would be a political decision on the part of London; Scotland pays into the Exchequer too, Scots taxes help fund council tax benefit in England, so why should not Scotland get at least some of this 600 million shortfall back?
49

Nevsky,

Moscow 03/09/2008 15:44:51
51:

I agree. It seems a more equitable systen than the current one.

The debate is not helped by people calling Salmond 'a wee fat s**te'. If it came down to it ANYONE in Scotland would prefer to have Salmond on their side than the likes of you 8/10..the Alan Partridge of Scottish Unionist posters.

Do us all a favour and leave the boards unless you have something useful to contribute. All you seem to do is...well nothing really.
50

sonofhamish,

edinburgh 03/09/2008 15:48:51
The fact is that I like a lot of the SNP policies, but I can't stomach Salmon, he is joke and disgrace and independance is a hugely unnecessary distraction from other issues so they would never get my vote.


51

,

03/09/2008 15:55:44
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52

Embra Don,

03/09/2008 16:04:16
# 34 guenevere
"the CBI, the Institute of Directors and the Institute of Chartered Accountants in Scotland"

No vested interests in the status quo there then.
53

danielrober,

03/09/2008 16:05:02
Alec.S needs to calm down again.


"" "I have no doubt Scotland will judge harshly any MSP who votes to keep the council tax in the face of the overwhelming benefit that would flow to millions of Scots", he told Parliament ""


I have no doubt that the introduction of such a new law, that HAS NOT BEEN properly debated will be judged harshly by Scotland.

Just because the SNP are in power does not bring an end to the debate by Scotlands Parliment. No questioning process is just a return to the pre-devolution system of legislation. Bullying legislation is not impressive, its sad.

Lets see the argument and the details then make adult decsisons.
54

,

03/09/2008 16:05:10
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55

Embra Don,

03/09/2008 16:06:16
57 Dave from Barra

Ignore "cats" he is just a troll who tries to disrupt debate by using schoolboy insults. Rise above it!
56

Nevsky,

Moscow 03/09/2008 16:10:16
57:

He is a bitter prat. Hates himself, hates his country. Thankfully for the rest of the world 8/10 and his ilk remain in Scotland only, no other country has people with such loathing for their own.

Any comment on the businesses leaving the UK this week 8/10 and how many left Scotland post devolution as was widely lied about?..mmm...none!
57

New Town Resident,

03/09/2008 16:28:50
You'll never solve the "fairness" versus economic incentive debate. My main objection in principle to LIT is simply that its much easier to avoid. People in the black economy pay rent and hence council tax whereas they will avoid LIT. Hence pound for pound overall honest people will pay more in total and this will probably offset the admin savings?

What's to stop people in small private companies switching their pay into dividends by the way? No council tax on their big houses, and no LIT either?
58

Roscoe P Coltrane,

03/09/2008 16:35:02
Here's a suggestion. It's a bit radical, so hold onto your hats folks.

How about we just force the councils to stop wasting so much money on things people don't want (e.g. these bl00dy trams), or even put caps on contracts so they don't always go over budget? That way we could just reduce the Council Tax charge for every individual.

Maybe that's just too sensible and there's too much vested interest in Cooncil contract kickbacks. The CT is inherently unfair (it's based on an arbitrary value of the property you live in, whether it's yours or rented, and is completely unrelated to ability to pay) but instead of introducing a new system, why not just try and cut back on council profligacy?

Like I said, radical, that's why no politician would consider it.
59

All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 03/09/2008 16:41:16
Of course people save money, the total collected is less therefore services will be cut.
60

All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 03/09/2008 16:43:39
Who decides who pays LIT anyway, what about companies that operate a central pay roll based in England yet employ large numbers in Scotland. Public bodies such as the MOD for instance. You could end up with double winners, house in Scotland but based in england or double losers, house in england but based in scotland.
61

English Ian,

England 03/09/2008 16:44:09
1. LIT may be unpopular, but at least the Scots have their own dedicated government to decide. England don't.

2. however I accept there's some history there, and this isn't the issue at the moment

3. Who is richest? the old couple with £400,000 house on a £10,000 pension, or the young couple on £50,000 a year renting a cheap £100,000 flat with student debt (oops, sorry forgot Scots don't pay fees).

4. LIT says the latter, council tax the former.

5.Whichever you agree with depends on your vested interests.

6. thats why politicans are there to decide for us!

7. CCAB / CBI do have vested interests - in making sure the country/nation doesn't screw itself financially like it did in the 70s.

8. public sector pensions - please get over this. I pay private sector pensions when I buy from companies. If companies chose to close pension schemes and take the profits instead, then its up to the employees to deal with this.

9. There's no point acting like the fox who lost its tail. Council's are actually being sensible and protecting retirement interests of 20% of workforce - this is not a bad thing. Private employers should do the same for the other 80% however, but the taxpayer / consumer will have to pay at some point in the economic food chain.

10. Alternatively, private employees should take thier average higher pay, and make their own pension arrangements...

11. I agree Gordon Brown's fingerprints are over the pension crisis - where is he from again...?

12. Oh yeah - Scotland. Scotland's politicians are not one of its best exports

cheers

Ian
62

danielrober,

03/09/2008 16:46:41
# 62 Dave from Barra

True enough. After we have all had the information, it just might be fantastic.

But we still need a debate in Parliment, with lots of hard questions to find problems before millions of people have to deal with the day to day situation.


# 66 Roscoe P Coltrane

Too radical and just too sensible. Next thing energy companies with reduce prices to take into account the global reduction in resource prices.
63

guenevere,

03/09/2008 17:20:37
69. So you are ok about all this?

Ok about scotland getting free presciptions,free elderly care,free uni places (any one but English students)free hospital parking,and guess who pays for all these freebies,yes,you got it,English tax payers!
64

SILVANA,

glasgow 03/09/2008 17:25:27
Hi English Ian
Point 3 regarding students who do not pay fees in Scotland. Could you tell me where in Scotland? I must have been in the wrong country because I have debt from my Student Loans for my education in a Scottish University.

I believe it is a good idea for the future but we are not economically ready to go the whole road. As to being independent.........No thank you. I am a Scot and I am a United Kingdom Citizen........Note the word "United". Salmond is driving a wedge of discontent.
65

"Hoots" Fandango,

03/09/2008 17:28:39
71 kimba

Not fair? Tough.
66

guenevere,

03/09/2008 17:33:36
73. You really are a "Thickozoid"now try and "u n d e r s t a n d,I am NOT kimba,capeesh!
67

Roscoe P Coltrane,

03/09/2008 17:35:13
#70 DR - aye, that'll be right!

Maybe if some of the super-rich were taxed properly (and by properly I just mean that they pay the same proportion of their income that the rest of us - I believe there's some antiquated phrase like "progressive taxation" some economist body went on about.... Richard Keyes wasn't it?) then we wouldn't be having this debate?

They used to say that only two things were certain in life, death and taxes.

In the modern world you can also add that if you're honest and hard working and do pay your taxes, another thing is certain. You're f**ked.
68

Roscoe P Coltrane,

03/09/2008 17:36:37
#71 - what?

Please explain in English how all these things are paid for by English taxes?

I'll add another thing to my certainty list - guenevere doesn't have a clue what he/she is talking about.

Night all, sweet dreams.
69

Embra Don,

03/09/2008 17:40:59
While generally in agreement that LIT is fairer than CT, I believe that there a few issues to be ironed out including:
The projected shortfall - this could possibly be made up by a Land Value Tax - payable by the owners of all land and based, pro rata, on the highest value it could be used for. e.g. if land used as a grouse moor would have a higher value as forest this would be the basis for its LVT. Similarly if a retail chain own land with planning consent for a supermarket, but chose not to develop it, they would be taxed as if it were in that use.
The object, apart from raising revenue, would be to discourage land bankers.
It would be comparatively expensive to administer - but possibly worthwhile.
Another possible downside of LIT is that it may encourage settlers with large investment income to retire to Scotland pushing up property prices.
70

,

03/09/2008 17:47:21
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71

Embra Don,

03/09/2008 17:47:24
#72 - SILVANA
While it says on your passport "UK Citizen" I believe that constitutionally we are all "subjects" of her Britannic Majesty.
As to the wedge of discontent - one might alternatively use the analogy of an ever widening crack that the Unionist parties are no longer able to paper over.
72

"Hoots" Fandango,

03/09/2008 17:48:20
74 guenevere / kimba
03/09/2008 17:33:36
"You really are a "Thickozoid"now try and "u n d e r s t a n d,I am NOT kimba,capeesh!"

This is your first day here and you know all about the posters. Have you been lurking and reading then decided to join in?

Away ya balloon ye.
73

guenevere,

03/09/2008 17:49:14
76. You ask me to explain then p--s off,but I'll explain anyway:- English subsidise the Scots by £2,200 per head
Scotland’s annual subsidy from England has shot up to a record £2,200 a head – doubling since Labour came into power in 1997. The Scottish Executive figures sparked a political storm as MSPs asked why the world-class spending has failed to be transferred into world-class public services. In 2003-4 the Government spent £45.3 billion, putting Scotland in a rare club of countries where state spending is more than half of the entire economy. Only £34 billion was generated in tax. The remaining £11.3 billion was subsidised by English taxpayers.
74

Embra Don,

03/09/2008 17:52:30
#78 8/10 Cats

I refer to my previous post (#61) and rest my case.
Gratuitous insults, public schoolboy innuendo and unionist superiority complex.
No coherent argument but a disruptive agenda.
75

"Hoots" Fandango,

03/09/2008 17:56:14
81 veryqueer

Is that you explaining? No. That's what kimba does.

.. and if you want to read more of this article you'll find it at http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/subsidy1.html
76

Embra Don,

03/09/2008 17:56:56
#81 guenevere
If you really believe all that Mail/Express drivel, then its time England got rid of us. Strange that the unionists seem so reluctant... isn't it?
77

Ewan M,

03/09/2008 18:00:02
Usual SNP rubbish. Do they think people who pay substantially more will stay in Scotland? If I never loved Scotland so much I wish it did come in to show the complete ecconomic incompetence of this small minded party.
78

guenevere,

03/09/2008 18:01:12
81. I do not care "what kimba does",you are obsessed with kimba.
79

Ribbonman,

Glasgow (east) 03/09/2008 18:02:57
"Labour and the Tories oppose the plan" That is proof enough for me to vote for the plan!
80

guenevere,

03/09/2008 18:04:16
84.Can't understand why we don't,suppose the scots in westminster would be out of a job if we did.
81

"Hoots" Fandango,

03/09/2008 18:04:59
85

That's TORY talk Ewan.
82

guenevere,

03/09/2008 18:11:42
ok then,my wonderful husband has returned from work and cooked a lovely dinner,so,enjoy your evening,i cretainly will.
83

"Hoots" Fandango,

03/09/2008 18:12:17
Cheers kimba.
84

"Hoots" Fandango,

03/09/2008 18:16:43
Regarding "guenevere's" post where she says, "ok then,my wonderful husband has returned from work and cooked a lovely dinner,so,enjoy your evening,i cretainly will.", here's a wee post by "elizabeth the first (kimba) from June.

178
elizabeth the first ,
27/06/2008 19:08:14
"Good night all,I'm off to be wined and dined by my wonderful husband."

Outed ya bampot.
85

"Hoots" Fandango,

03/09/2008 18:18:06
It's just so wonderful.
86

Ribbonman,

Glasgow (east) 03/09/2008 18:18:11
#72 If you claim to be a Scot and a UK "citizen" then I am looking at someone who obviously wants to keep his/her cake and eat it.If you are claiming UK "citizenship" Then you instantly become "A SUBJECT" of the Queen of England. Check your UK passport and you will see what I mean. However if you should desire to become a Scottish CITIZEN in your own right,just vote for Independence.It is as simple as that.The people of Denmark Sweden Ireland Austria France etc. etc. can stand on their own two feet,why cant we?
87

"Hoots" Fandango,

03/09/2008 18:36:21
My UK passport says I'm a citizen. Subject was removed years ago.

"On 1 January 1983 (British Nationality Act 1981), every Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies became either a British Citizen, British Dependent Territories Citizen or British Overseas Citizen."

"British citizens are not British subjects under the 1981 Act. The only circumstance where a person may be both a British subject and British citizen simultaneously is a case where a British subject connected with Ireland acquires British citizenship by naturalisation or registration. In this case only, British subject status is not lost upon acquiring British citizenship.

The status of British subject cannot now be transmitted by descent, and will become extinct when all existing British subjects are dead."
88

"Hoots" Fandango,

03/09/2008 18:38:33
British Nationality Act 1981

http://www.uniset.ca/naty/BNA1981revd.htm
89

,

03/09/2008 18:43:55
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90

Miss H,

03/09/2008 19:02:41
71 That's the union dividens Guinevere. take it away from us and we will flounce out in a huff so we will.
91

Richardinho,

03/09/2008 19:06:34
I'm interested in the so called 'fair tax' which is being proposed in the USA, whereby there is no income tax, simply tax on what you spend.

Whatever method you use, the mechanism for calculating your tax bill should be intellectually coherent.
Income tax is. You pay according to your income. That makes sense. Council tax makes no sense whatsoever.
92

Ribbonman,

03/09/2008 19:07:38
#95 Hoots...... Thanks for the Info. To be a Scottish citizen with a Scottish passport would be my preference,and I hope that comes sooner than later!
93

Nikostratos,

03/09/2008 19:10:28
I look forward to seeing Alex Salmond dancing a jig to the lib dums tune so i do..
94

"Hoots" Fandango,

03/09/2008 19:12:56
97
8/10 Cats,

"Hoots you tit

Can you stop spamming this website with yer push? Who gives a flying bakie about irrelevant acts of parliament?

You really are a tit sir."

1 I wasn't addressing you so p­¡ss off

2 You are a rude person.

3 Why are you rude to everybody?

4 Apologies for "p¡ss off" as it was rude.

(_¡_)
95

Boaby,

Glasgow 03/09/2008 19:21:48
I don't think Cathy Jameson can say a hell of a lot about the LIT after the very, very, very, very bad job she made of trying to explain Labour's non-existant plan to reform the Council Tax at the last election which they thankfully lost.
96

Ribbonman,

03/09/2008 19:31:32
During the dark nights of Thatcher rule, the Scottish labour party ran Scotland for the Tories.

For that they must never be forgiven!

Away with them!
97

Red Etin,

03/09/2008 20:18:18
According to Cathy Jamieson: "Whatever Alex Salmond decides to call them, the SNP's tax plans will simultaneously make Scotland the highest-tax part of the UK and damage local services."

Why compare us to the rest of the UK? The rest of the UK will be jealous of our tax system. I am more than happy to pay my share, and a bit more, if it gets us out of this idiotic London rule. By the way we will be the lowest local taxed part of the UK.
98

Nikostratos,

03/09/2008 20:33:37
Reckon ole Alex is converting to being a Muslim all this anti alcohol nonsense ....doomed to failure Alex he should stick to being a minister as opposed to a mullah
99

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 03/09/2008 20:34:58
By the comments of unionists on here you would think that this Britain that they love had not lurched from economic crisis to economic crisis over the years.

Such is the expertise of them and the great politicians that they would have us support, you could almost be forgiven for thinking that we have never had any poor amongst us, never had record numbers of unemployed. never had governments who changed the way that unemployment levels were calculated to make them look better, never had governments who went in for such devises as triple accountancy when making reports to parliament, never had governemnts or unionist controlled councils who were criticised for their handling of PFI's etc, etc, etc.

Yes when it comes to economics at local, national and international level they have never been found wanting, have they?

Yet they still try to instruct others.

As for me, well I might start listening if they would only drop the hypocricy of coming on here attacking the SNP whilst refusing to tell us which party it is they support
100

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 03/09/2008 20:35:20
Thing that gets me about this is that there will be no debate in parliament. Just party politics.
101

Nikostratos,

03/09/2008 20:45:37
#107

Do you seriously believe a Independent Scotland would never face another Economic crisis again. there would be no poor no unemployed and Government would be perfect for ever more?

ochone you got 'old time religion'
102

danielrober,

03/09/2008 20:49:40
# 107 ochone,Sauchie, Clack's

I'm most likely to vote Lib Dem or Conservaive at the next election. If that helps you read with an open mind then i'm rather happy about that.

I'm not even complaining about the LIT. I'd just like some more information on it and a 'real' debate on it in Parliment.

After all this is a tax we are going to have to pay, So it needs to be democratically assessed.
103

Col. Blimp­IV*,

03/09/2008 21:03:52
#107
ochone,

Didn't you here, Broon committed the years of boom and bust to the history books...It's Broon and bust we have now.
104

Col. Blimp­IV*,

03/09/2008 21:04:54
hear
105

Media 1,

cape town 03/09/2008 21:11:12
Alex Salmond!
As soon as I hear the name I think about "Nationalist fighting, liberation nutcases and painted blue faces screaming F R E E D O M!
Oh you got to laugh
106

tommy M,

03/09/2008 21:15:55
Goodbye council tax and good riddance!!
107

Col. Blimp­IV*,

03/09/2008 21:19:18
#112
Col. Blimp­IV*

You have just erased all memory I had of the sensible stuff you posted yesterday or was it the day before.


F R E E D O MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM YUM YUM YUM YUM!
108

Camrin,

West Lothian 03/09/2008 21:22:12
Been working from 05:00 this morning and am just finishing now. I work long hours to try and earn enough money that I hope can make a difference for my family. My folks had nothing and thier folks had nothing but each generation manages to improve on the life of the one before.

I cant afford to have a holiday (Euro exchange so high) , I cant afford to drive anywhere because of fuel prices. I worry about paying energy bills this winter and my weekly shopping bills continue to rise.

I can't tell you how happy I am to find out I'll be paying an additional £300 over my existing Council Tax if the SNP LIT is approved.

I love Scotland, but I do not want to pay for it when we have the Social injustice that if you are prepared to work hard and contribute to society, you pay for generations of benefit scroungers who are a major drain on this nation.

I am sure I am not in the minority here! I will have nothing to do with the SNP until they stop painting a picture of a false utopia and address that Scotland can only solve its own problems and not seek to blame Westminster for everything.
109

Col. Blimp­IV*,

03/09/2008 21:23:09
I'm that much of a nutcase I am shouting at myself.

Never mind...It beats talking to that Broon Tabard apologist at #113.
110

Col. Blimp­IV*,

03/09/2008 21:27:39
#116
Camrin

Doubt if anyone is daft enough to swallow a word of that.

111

Camrin,

03/09/2008 21:31:28
What you on about #118?

Every single thing of what I posted is true. Unlike a lot of kids who post on these messageboards and people trying to scive from thier work, I am seriously opposed to this Tax and has damaged any sympathies I amy have had for other things the SNP does.
112

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 03/09/2008 21:39:21
Media 1, did you ever find the Colonies in Stockbridge? Have you never been back to find them?