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Court threat over 'illegal' council tax freeze



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Published Date: 08 January 2008
LOCAL authorities are threatening to take court action against the Scottish Government over fears that ministers are poised to impose the council tax freeze illegally.
Council leaders have been told by lawyers that John Swinney, the finance secretary, is in danger of breaching local authorities' legal autonomy by allocating the £70 million he has set aside to halt increases in the tax.

The Scotsman has learned t
hat confidential legal advice to the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities (Cosla), states that paying only some councils for freezing their council tax could constitute a breach of legislation.

Under laws which date back to the 1950s, ministers have the power to pay grants to local authorities for services they deliver. But the legal advice to Cosla is that giving money for the council tax freeze to only those authorities which agree to the policy does not count in law as a payment for a service.

Last night, Rory Mair, Cosla's chief executive, took a strong line with the Scottish Government, with whom the organisation has signed an agreement – known as a concordat – to work together to provide a range of services and to freeze council taxes at current levels.

Mr Mair said: "If we thought this was questionable, we would have to go back to John Swinney and threaten to take this to judicial review. Just because we have signed the concordat, we cannot allow the basic legal relationship between central government and local government to be destroyed.

"I cannot allow (Mr Swinney] to impose a methodology that is not proper. The basic principle is that all councils have got to be treated fairly and equally."

Andy Kerr, Labour's local government spokesman, said: "This shows yet more of the SNP's plans unravelling before our eyes."

The threat of legal action from Cosla is a setback for Mr Swinney, who has set aside the £70 million to give to councils who agree to freeze the council tax.

Ministers have stated that councils which do not halt increases in council tax will not qualify for their share of the money.

It is understood that Scottish Government officials are aware of the possible legal problem and have also taken advice from lawyers to try to find a way to make the payments legally.

Last night, a spokesman for the Scottish Government said: "We will implement the council tax freeze in a way that is legal."



The full article contains 406 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 07 January 2008 10:03 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Council tax
 
1

James,

Dundee 08/01/2008 00:46:43
Peter and Andy.

The new Laurel and Hardy!
2

James,

Dundee 08/01/2008 01:03:37
Last night, a spokesman for the Scottish Government said: "We will implement the council tax freeze in a way that is legal."

AM2 - I take it you read the whole article?

That's if it's the real AM2?
3

a proud doonhamer,

Dumfries 08/01/2008 01:07:51
COSLA has an opinion that the process may not be legal and may requre a judicial review.

The Scottish government says it will implement the Council Tax Freeze in a way that is legal.

So AM2, where is the "illegal" story?

Have you some information that the writer left out of the story? Please elaborate.

An opinion was given to COSLA, it was relayed to the Scottish Government, and the Scottish Government confirmed that it will comply with the law.

Is that the best the unionists can do?
4

James,

Dundee 08/01/2008 01:09:39
Ersatz outrage as usual by Labour Spokesperson, Journalist, and the 'heid stirrer' on the forums.
5

famous 15,

Edinburgh 08/01/2008 01:11:28
AM2 into overdrive again to do down the SNP. Any excuse will do including an excellent policy which councils shook hands on but Labour cannot stand any success by SNP. Let us be clear about laws. The criminal Law is for crooks and baddies like bankrobbers and er illegal acceptance of foreign donations. The civil law is for questions of contract,divorce and breaking of agreements.Which kind of law AM2? Whether vires is really a virus?
6

James,

Dundee 08/01/2008 01:13:06
#5
I believe the SNP are to be trusted more than what has gone before.
Let them be judged on their record, and not on the supposition that they will be as culpable as what has gone before.

The others have proved themselves untrustworthy in spades have they not ?
7

a proud doonhamer,

Dumfries 08/01/2008 01:13:53
I have a few questions for COSLA.

Is it the COSLA position that, despite the concordat, COSLA is going to take the Scottish Government to court to prevent a transfer of 70 million pounds to local authorities, and that the lack of transfer would force local authorities to raise the Council tax due and payable instead of the promised tax freeze? Is this the policy of the Council leaders or is the musing of COSLA staff?

Does anyone really beleive that COSLA or a local authority is going to take the Scottish government to court to stop payments and increase council tax?

Labour must really think we are all as THICK as Councillor Kelly.
8

James,

Dundee 08/01/2008 01:18:12
#9 AM2 You can prove your statement by criticizing the UK Government on matters such as the Northern Rock, Data security etc etc.

I see little recorded evidence to back your claim.


The SNP are your bogeymen.

PLAIN and simple.
9

a proud doonhamer,

Dumfries 08/01/2008 01:21:28
7 AM2

What "downplay"?

I stated that the opinon was given to COSLA, and it was.
I stated that COSLA relayed this to the Scottish Government, and they did.
I stated that the Scottish Government stated they would follow the law, and they did.

Was there anything else in the story I missed, or are you simply posting again "without inside information or frankly an opinion"?

You accused me, among others, of "Downplay, deny, ridicule, attack the "unionist media", attack me... there are so many precedents ". Where in post #4 were you even mentioned, or is it that you see every post attacking the union is a personal attack on you?

10

James,

Dundee 08/01/2008 01:25:05
#14 I almost feel sory for Jackie Ballie getting wheeled out - but then I remember she is defending the illegal and pleading for clemency.

Nomatter, this deflects from this topic.
Nothing Illegal about the propoed freeze.

Just the usualy gusts of wind from the usual suspects.
11

a proud doonhamer,

Dumfries 08/01/2008 01:26:27
11 AM2

I am reading from your handbook. It is a good text at deflecting and obfuscating. Some pages are stuck together by what appears like a pasty substance, and other parts are obscured by tear like stains. Some one, or something has also chewed on the corners and the bottom has a massive bite mark from someone missing a couple of teeth. Other than that, it is fairly good copy, although I was surprised to see the Ulster postmark dated 1977 on the back page.

Could you send my a new copy or even an electronic copy so that I can forward it to all my Nationalist friends in your honour?
12

James,

Dundee 08/01/2008 01:29:02
Apologies to the forum as my spelling has deteriorated shockingly - Up too late again - fatigue - will drop in tomorrow to bag 500?

Night night AM2 - I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on the 'missing data' (The Scotsmans that is!)

:)
13

a proud doonhamer,

Dumfries 08/01/2008 01:39:04
21

I don't think that is correct. I can't be from Na h-Eillean an Iar because the local post office forwarded all mail for stamping to the mainland, and it had a picture of Ian Paisly taped to the back of the cover.

The picture was signed,

To AM, my wee friend and future defender of the union.
14

a proud doonhamer,

Dumfries 08/01/2008 01:42:49
22 AM2

How many angels on the head of a pin?
How many unionists does it take to change a light bulb?
Will Maggie Broon last until Thursday?
Will we ever see Wendy again?

Are these hypothetical questions sufficiently obscure enough to be added to your list?
15

a proud doonhamer,

Dumfries 08/01/2008 01:44:37
24

You have a brother named Angus? That's a strange name for an Ulster boyo. Did you get the book from him?
16

a proud doonhamer,

Dumfries 08/01/2008 01:54:51
27 AM2

I am always a forward thinker. I will leave the lateral thinking to fine unionists like yourself.

However, on your request that I partake in a dinner of crow, I must decline. I would never bet against the possibility of a Labour dominated Council doing something totally stupid. I hope to be proven wrong in this case but to bet would be to go against past records, and no smart punter would ignore past records.
17

frank mcbride,

lusitania 08/01/2008 02:28:29
#27, AM2.

No-one could accuse you of lateral thinking or, for that matter, straight thinking.

What is your thinking on, "We will implement the CT freeze in a way that is legal."?

It will be implemented with the agreement of the LAs, despite the pressures of Westminster NuLabour's centralist agenda.

18

Jimmy the Pie,

08/01/2008 06:06:53
Could Wendy be holed up in a local (labour) council chambers?? She must be hiding somewhere??
19

,

08/01/2008 06:34:50
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
20

Jimmy the Pie,

08/01/2008 06:43:07
Are you Wendy, AM2??? Where are you hiding??
21

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 08/01/2008 08:27:24
"Last night, Rory Mair, Cosla's chief executive, took a strong line with the Scottish Government."
Elected by ?
Speaking with the authority of ?
22

mr chips,

08/01/2008 08:53:45
So Andy Kerr does not want a council tax freeze ,he would rather see the poor in society up to their necks in debt with increases in the dreaded unfair extortionate coonsil tax. Keep up the good work Kerr
Im sure your silly comments will be noted by every pensioner in Scotland who will now turn to the SNP
for help to rid us of this hated tax which Kerr and labour scum have forced on the poor and vunrable over the past years during their farce of governing Scotland through their London masters.
Pathetic creep.
23

Edward,

08/01/2008 09:22:15
Its laughable that Andy Kerr is against a council tax freeze, but then again he and the rest of the Labour party are against the move to having council rates done away with and council services paid for by those tha can afford it. Correct me if Im wrong, but the council tax freeze is in preperation for the move to the Scottish Governments proposed council tax, which will mean that for those who can afford will pay and those on lower income will pay less or nothing.
Its plain that most of Cosla are Labour aparachek's
Hopefully pensioners and those on low income will realise that Labour no longer represents them and that Labour is no longer the party of socialism
24

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 08/01/2008 09:39:02
I can't see the story here. What exactly is Mair talking about?

AM2 There is a world of difference between Wendy Alexander actually breaking the law and Mr Mair saying that he will not allow Swinney to do something illegal in the future.
25

scottishcoffindodgerno1,

Edinburgh 08/01/2008 09:39:06
#35,we hear you son,Good advice.Coffindodgers vote goes to SNP
26

Gtj,

Dundee 08/01/2008 10:26:41
"I cannot allow (Mr Swinney] to impose a methodology that is not proper." thereby causing hardship for the most vunerable and poorest people in the country.

That will win you votes Andy.

This is not a story. What this is, is a reflection of how sad and pathetic Labour have become in their attempts to try and stick something on the SNP, and the fact that they have nothing constructive to offer.
27

Proud2Be,

Comedy Central 08/01/2008 10:28:57
AM2 @ #9 - "I have no political allegiance"

The only way to accurately describe that post would be as:

Liquid and semi solid human waste!!
28

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 08/01/2008 10:35:01
Cuncils are very taxing are they not?
29

Miss H,

08/01/2008 10:53:52
This is an interesting story but not for the reasons it appears to be. The substance of the story is actually nonsense but the issue underlying it is the very radical change in the relationhip the SNP has established with local government.

We have seen Labour MSPs going mad over the scrapping of ring fencing - and Pat Watters going equally mad about what he has described as a slur on local government. Pat Watters is of course a Labour councillor. So this is in many ways an internal Labour battle sparked off by the SNP's decision to treat local government as an equal partner - anathema to many Labour MSPs.

COSLA are treading a very very fine line here. They can't afford to be seen as being in the government's pocket so they have to do things like this now and again.

But let's face it they owe all their new found freedom to the SNP. That's not simply a pro SNP statement, it's a fact. Had Labour been returned to power none of this would be happening. No concordat, no council tax freeze, no end to ring fencing, no equal partnership.

So there will be a council tax freeze and there will be no court challenge. Nobody other than ex Labour ministers wants to go back to the way it was before the SNP were elected - except perhaps AM2!



30

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 08/01/2008 11:37:05
Let's for a moment delve into the nether belly of The Hootsman's fantasy Scotland and say that one of the many failing Labour party ran councils (how many are there?) does decide to take the Scottish Government to court for forcing them to take extra money, so that they don't need to increase their local populations council tax.

What exactly could a court do to the Scottish Government if they were found guilty of forcing the council to take this extra funding?
31

BMeister,

08/01/2008 11:41:34
#42 OscarMacApfel

Presumably the important point would be that it would stop the govt being able to make one of these payments to any council thus meaning that the freeze could not be implemented as currently planned.
32

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 08/01/2008 13:17:29
#43 Jings BMeister wouldn't that fall into the 'cutting off your nose to save your face paradigm'?

Interesting that the COLSA heid bummer, Mr Mair starts his staement with the word 'IF' Which of course that the whole piece is based on o presumption. Silly old The Scotsman.
33

Wisnaeme,

08/01/2008 13:18:08

Post 39. Proud2be, Comedy Central.Wrote:

" AM2#@9- I have no political allegiance."

Aye. Avent..., erm AM2 allegedly posted this in another place:

"Isolationist, separatist, conspiracy theorist garbage."

and

"I didn't give a view, I offered a critique. To be frank, "Scots" can go hang- I don't have the remotest interest in their views".

Just curious, AM2. Who's frank?





34

democracy,

Scottish Borders 08/01/2008 16:08:51
Wisnaeme, I was wondering the same of #9 AM2's remark
"I have no political allegiance" so is he telling us he does not even bother to vote, or he cannot legally vote in Scotland. Either way it just makes him an agitator and trouble maker in the Newspaper websites and should now be totally ignored or laughed at, I prefer the latter!!
35

democracy,

Scottish Borders 08/01/2008 16:21:14
I think AM2 may not have any political allegiance as I think anyone who has such obvious personal hatred of the SNP may well actually have had his or her nose put out of joint while within the SNP itself, maybe an MSP from the past or an ex-SNP councillor who holds a vitriolic grudge against them, you know,someone of that ilk, sounds feasible huh?
36

democracy,

Scottish Borders 08/01/2008 16:32:46
Anyway, back to the story. "Court threat over
'illegal' council tax freeze"
If Scotland was a caring country at all it would read,
"Court threat over 'illegal' council tax".
37

Davie from Irvine,

Ayrhire coast 08/01/2008 18:05:48
AM2 @ 9 says, i have no political aleginces, find another bogeyman. I remember AM2 saying he is a conservative, he is so anti independence that the SNP is his bogeyman.
38

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 08/01/2008 19:28:29
How odd, when I last checked in here this afternoon, the comments had all been removed and the article couldn't be commented on.
39

Davie from Irvine,

Ayrshire coast 08/01/2008 19:38:01
50 the same comments that are back on ?
40

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 08/01/2008 19:45:44
Yep Davie, look further up there was nothing between 13.18 and 16.08

I presumed they'd gone postal again at all the work AM2 was creating for the techno gonks.
41

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 08/01/2008 19:49:05
One of the great things here from AM2 is his use of the term (in a derogatory sense?) cyber-activists, wonder what that makes him?

As for the story, and I use the word advisedly, I get the impression that within Labours ranks they are trying to get one of the councils that they control to turn the deal down, but are having difficulty in doing so.

As for AM2 and Labours attempts to try and make it look as though this would be a problem for the SNP if it didn't come to pass, new plans would have be drawn up, but it would be up to Labour and the likes of him to try and explain it away to the people of Scotland, who would no doubt be thrilled at the prospect of further council tax rises, then there would be their reaction when, as would undoubtedly happen, Labour councillors still wanted to raise costs, close buildings or reduce staff numbers.

Just to save AM2 or any other unionist the bother of asking me how I can be so sure of the last point, I am basing it on their track record so far, despite the fact that they try and make out that past local control under them was some golden age.
42

Conan the Librarian™,

08/01/2008 20:42:16
52
They have done this on several occasions before,Oscar.
Can you recall the last time AM2?
43

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 08/01/2008 20:48:52
The last thing the Scottish Unionist parties want is a comprehensive Council Tax freeze and, irrespective of the financial benefits to many hundreds of thousands of Scots, they will do everything in their political power to prevent it!

IF, the Nationalist Executive somehow manages to introduce this proposal in the face of bitter Unionist opposition, and it resonates with Scots Council Tax payers, many will question why this was not previously possible? It could well become another nail in the Unionist devolved coffin!

44

Davie from Irvine,

Ayrhire coast 08/01/2008 21:08:04
AM2 @55, im surprised that you are glad there is more SNP at council level, as a unionist would you accept the setting up of an independent Scotland if that in time is voted for ?
45

GM,

08/01/2008 22:48:42
Aye AM2 - its all about you...

allways you.

When you're attempts to stir are shown to be so downright stupid (which on the odd occassion they are such as in this particular 'story'), you resort to 'me, me, me - its all about me'.

For such an intelligent (though misguided) soul, I'd have thought a retreat from the thread would have earned you less ridicule.

Back ontopic though -
COSLA took legal opinion, as anyone can on any matter. Approach a solicitor, who will approach a QC on your behalf with a series of questions and information, and the QC will return with his or her opinion in law as answers to the questions (some folks have direct access to QC in this regard and dont need to go through a solicitor).

It is just an opinion, not the law and I've seen plenty differing QC's opinions in my time on exactly the same issues.
46

GM,

08/01/2008 23:07:31
@62

you were admitidly facetious and now upset at the tone and content of responses?

methinks you got exactly the responses you thought you'd get!

Again, back ontopic,
COSLA took counsel advice,
Counsel have indicated by opinion that there may be a legal issue with what the SNP propose,

What happens now is that COSLA or someone else has to go to court (civil not criminal) to see if counsel opinion is indeed correct.
Barring that, the SNP have 2 choices -
1 - plough along assuming the COSLA opinion is not valid in law
2 - make changes to the implementation to accord with what issue has been highlighted in the COSLA opinion


Simple, but hardly a noteworthy story is it!

I'm actually with one other contributor here who feels Labour cant get any of there own controlled authorities to reject the SNP deal and have pounced on this COSLA issue to simply make what they see as political gain.

Anyone with even half a brain can see right through that!
47

frank mcbride,

lusitania 08/01/2008 23:24:58
#62, AM2.

I personally think your attitude is:

"He who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day."

However, I will grant that you believe what you say but, I have to make the point that your tactics are those of your heroes of yester year; the British Redcoats in America.

These, as you may know, refused to change their approach, even when aware that things around them had changed dramatically. Indeed, it took the British establishment 150yrs. to address the issues of that particular failure.

Keep posting AM2 as you make the case against the Union etter than most.

Please feel free to add this to your little character sketch of me.
48

mr chips,

09/01/2008 00:23:28
64 frank mcbride,lusitania.
Well said pal.
49

,

09/01/2008 00:44:48
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
50

Wisnaeme,

09/01/2008 20:11:19
Post #54. AM2.

What an extraordinary reply.Surely someone who has integrity would acknowledge or decline responsibility for something that they were the author of.Of course those words could be denied as "I never said" but they were not said were they? They were expressed by means of the written word.

So do you have the integrity to acknowledge or disown the authorship of those words? I await an answer that bears the hallmarks of integrity and personal responsibility.

 

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