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Salmond fury at 'bunch of spivs' behind bank crisis



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Published Date: 18 September 2008
ALEX Salmond, the First Minister, launched a blistering attack last night on the "spivs and speculators" who had prompted the HBOS crisis.



He said he had been in talks with senior executives from the Scottish banking giant and Lloyds TSB, and pledged to attempt to ensure that any new bank would continue to be based north of the Border, while minimising the number of job losses.

Mr Salmond has cancelled his trip to the Ryder Cup to "represent the Scottish interests", as the merger between the banks looks set to be confirmed today.

"My experience of mergers is that the key strategic decisions are taken early," said Mr Salmond, a former economist. "That is why I feel I need to be here to represent the Scottish interest."

He said he had made the government's position clear to those involved in negotiations and hit out at the speculators who were putting "the quality of life and jobs of hundreds, thousands and millions of people across the world at risk" through "short-trading" – where investors make money by effectively betting on the price of a company falling.

"There's going to be a huge job of advocacy in the Scottish interest. I have spoken to senior officials in both banks today and made it clear that we will be making sure these representations are made," Mr Salmond said.

Ripping HBOS out of Scotland would likely mean the end of the Bank of Scotland, which formed HBOS when it merged with Halifax in September 2001.

At that time, it remained a separate public limited company, but it is unclear whether it would continue to do so.

If not, the bank would likely lose the power to print its own notes, which it has had since being established by government charter in 1695. This would be a major blow to the Scottish currency and national identity.

HBOS's share price plummeted earlier in the week in the wake of the collapse of Lehman Brothers, the US investment bank. Traders began offering shares they did not own at reduced prices in the hope the value would then drop – "short-selling".

Mr Salmond said: "I have not a word of criticism for the two banks, but I have to say that if HBOS, which has had a clean bill of health from the financial regulators, has been driven to this point through this sort of speculation then there is no financial institution that is not at risk.

"I am very angry that we can have a situation of a bank being forced into a merger by a short-selling bunch of spivs and speculators in the financial markets.

"We should not have situations where well-capitalised, properly funded financial institutions are subject to incredible speculative attack, and that drives them into decision- making which otherwise they might not have done."

His fury echoed comments by Vince Cable, economy spokesman for the Liberal Democrats, who also accused hedge-fund managers of "hunting in packs" to undermine HBOS.

But the shadow chancellor, George Osborne, said the practice of short-selling was "more of a symptom of the problem than the cause", which was people's uncertainty about the soundness of financial institutions.

Mr Salmond said he believed the Royal Bank of Scotland was not under as great a threat from takeover because it was an international organisation that could call on support from regulators around the world and was not as dependent on wholesale money as HBOS.

He added that there was a need to cut taxes and increase public spending to re-inflate the economy and regretted that the Scottish Government's powers would not allow him to do that because it was unable to borrow.

The Scottish Lib Dem leader, Tavish Scott, said: "The enormous short-term financial pressures have understandably led to these talks (between Lloyds and HBOS] but customers need to know that banking regulators are on their side, because a merger of these two companies will mean less competition."

For the Tories, Derek Brownlee said: "Whatever the outcome, we want to see Scotland maintain a strong and stable presence in the global financial sector."

New player would possess major muscle but may retreat from the high street

THE institution created by a fusion of Lloyds TSB and HBOS would take up formidable space in the marketplace and – perhaps to a lesser extent – on the high streets.

While there will undoubtedly be job losses – estimated in some quarters to be in the region of 40,000 – those who keep their posts will likely benefit from being part of a very powerful institution.

Ken Murray, chief executive of Blue Planet Investment Management, said the merger would create £9 billion a year in profits.

He said: "The efficiency gains will be enormous. You don't need two banks on every high street in Britain; invariably people will lose their jobs as always happens in this situation."

The highest-profile scalp which could be taken is Andy Hornby's, the CEO of HBOS. He is already under fire for the embarrassing rights issue earlier this year, which bombed, leaving underwriters with the vast majority of the shares.

There are also major implications for Scotland's infrastructure, economy and jobs market, and those of Edinburgh, where HBOS is based.

Alex Salmond, the First Minister, is in talks to ensure the HQ remains north of the Border.

However, Mr Murray said: "I don't know if this is a loss for Scotland. In reality, the head office was already in the South.

"But this is a British bank, and Lloyds and HBOS are big players in Scotland. It's in everybody's interests to have strong people running strong banks. Banks are reliant on the confidence of markets. If you undermine that confidence then you make it very difficult for that company to carry on in business. It's particularly hard when the rumours are simply not true."

Bryan Johnston, of Bell Lawrie, said the merger would lead to "a muscle of a name to start with".

He said: "We will end up with a very powerful bank with a massive asset base. We will inevitably have some consolidating of the workforce."

But he said the loss of traditional physical banks was not a major implication.

"I think the days of the high- street bank are on the way out anyway," he said. "More and more people bank online so the physical presence is probably only relevant to non-physical elements of banking, such as investment banking.

"I think the banks will go the way of the post offices."

ANALYSIS

Reputation for trust worth nothing in the global marketplace


A TAKEOVER of HBOS by Lloyds TSB is good news for HBOS customers and depositors, and for the stability of the banking system. But in the long run, it is bad news for the Scottish financial industry and the economy for it may cost up to 4,000 Scottish jobs.

It is good news for Gordon Brown's government, for if Lloyds TSB had walked away from the deal, as it did from Northern Rock, that would have sent a signal HBOS was too risky, and have caused a disastrous Northern Rock-style run on the bank, forcing the government to nationalise it. After a number of years, once stability had returned, it would then be sold to another bank. So takeover was always a foregone conclusion; it has just happened sooner rather than later.

It is a bad blow for Scotland. The financial sector has collectively marketed itself as being more trustworthy and a lot less racier than those spivvy types in the City. But the current plight of HBOS shows that such a reputation, if it was ever taken seriously, is worth nothing in the international marketplace.

While lots of depositors will breathe a big sigh of relief at a takeover, lots of employees – 140,000 of them in the UK between the two banks – will become extremely nervous about their jobs.

That goes right up to board level. The HBOS board, including chief executive Andy Hornby, are likely to be among the first to get the black bin-liner. They have made seriously heavy weather of the Halifax/Bank of Scotland merger and made the disastrous mistake of replacing James Crosby with Mr Hornby when the former started reining in mortgage lending, a wise strategy it now turns out. Their attempt to raise £4 billion capital through a share rights issue was a flop.

The merged bank will, I think, be headquartered in London where the better-rated Lloyds TSB management now are. The only question mark about that concerns Lloyds TSB Scotland's separate identity, board, and management under chief executive Susan Rice.

For the rest of the staff, there will be a big shake-up. Too much of the two banks' operations overlaps.

At the time of the Royal Bank's merger with Natwest, the two banks between them had 86,000 employees. A year later and 13,000, or 15 per cent, had gone. That sounds bad, but this will be worse because unlike RBS/Natwest, which operated mainly in different retail banking markets with little overlap, there is huge overlap between HBOS and Lloyds TSB.

That means, I am afraid, anything between 20,000-30,000 jobs will go and there will be a big round of closures in the 3,000 branches that the banks have between them.

Although the cuts will be spread across Britain, Scotland may suffer a disproportionately large share because it is where the overlap is most pronounced. A year after any takeover, we can expect 3,000-4,000 jobs to have gone.

Alex Salmond may well complain about that, but the hard reality is that the shareholders of the new, bigger bank will tolerate nothing less.

Peter Jones




The full article contains 1637 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Angus Ogg,

17/09/2008 23:09:30

11.09: 17-09-2008 - So it's official. The Bank of Scotland is dead. Long live the Bank of Scotland.

Now to be headquartered in London and called Lloyds-Halifax plc.

===================

As for the past 72 hours, is it me, or has Alex Salmond been a refreshing antidote to McAvities Cat at Dithering Heights, AKA Downing Street ? FM Salmond has presented a clear explanation of what should be happening in the Scottish Banking Sector and economy, without talking down to electors. Also, he is actually coming on the media and facing up to difficult questions. Oh Brown, Where Art Thou?

Fairplay too, to David Cairns. Notwithstanding the SNP/Labour divisions on the likes of these Boards, David gave a refreshing, decent and honest account of himself in a very dignified manner, and methinks if Gordon Brown were to take a leaf out of both Alex Salmond and David Cairn's respective books he would fair a lot better.

But then Gordon will be retiring on or before 21st November 2008, so all eyes will soon be on who will be elected as the UK PM in order to stop Milliband or Purnell ???
2

Rufus T. Firefly,

18/09/2008 00:03:06
Salmond's fury is probably based on the fact that he cannot now go to the Ryder Cup.
3

Royster,

18/09/2008 00:27:40
Salmond's fury is due to the fact that he has just been proved wrong. His claim that Scotland would be a wealthy nation on independence is looking threadbare. It just proves he has been living in cloud-cuckoo land and leading his supporters on a merry dance. Countries often have severe shocks... some financial and some involving wars. That's why the union makes sense. It offers greater security to the people.
4

danielrober,

18/09/2008 00:34:38
I hope the professional bankers can just get on with their jobs. Trying to survive a WORLD financial crisis. Rather not be hearing from Alec.S screaming little Scotland right now as this really is just a survival situation. On that is affecting banks right across Europe and North America.

Good luck to the bankers.
5

Edward,

18/09/2008 00:46:34
It doesnt matter which shade of the political spectrum you come from, this is a disgrace that some faceless spivs in London have created havoc with Scottish banking.
Salmond I think speaks for all and voices our concerns
But where the f**k was Brown in all this! not a peep of support or , as he should be doing is making sure this should not happen, after all he is suppose to be the Prime minister! Brown should be going after the scalps of these creep spivs that done this, simply stating 'its a global thing' doesnt wash!
6

danielrober,

18/09/2008 00:52:34
# 7 Edward,

Politico. Feel better after your rant. If your lucky you can catch the tide and have an argument with the surf as well. The tide, shhh, its all a plan by London to - take back the beaches.;-(
7

Edward,

18/09/2008 00:54:12
#5 danielrober
Your a complete idiot!
This was nothing to do with a 'World financial crisis'
this was purely down to a small group of hedge fund (spivs)managers short trading shares in HBOS and creating a crisis. The FSA are well awre of it as is idiot Brown. The question is will Brown and the FSA act on this and investigate?
The sivs didnt evn own the shares they 'borrowed' them and sold them as cheap as the could driving the price down. Then when it was rock bottom bought them back, giving themselves an 'nice' earner
Frankly they shold be arrested and money takn of them
8

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 18/09/2008 01:02:10
Royster, you seem to be peddling that bigger is better. Is that the case with GDP, since you dispute the fact that Scotland would be better off as an independent nation?
9

somerferg,

perth 18/09/2008 01:19:56

I'm sure if Alex Salmond wanted to he would have attended the Ryder Cup instead of which he did what he has been doing for years i.e. speaking the truth and going into battle on Scotland's behalf. What he says is absolutely correct - our wealth has been sqandered by chinless wonders in the financial world who will not be the ones worried about getting or paying for a mortgage or the cost to the ordinary taxpayer of this debacle. Nop they will still be sunning thmselves in Monte Carlo sipping on champagne laughing at the rest of us mere mortals.
10

The Strategist,

18/09/2008 01:33:24
Royster you truly are a twirp. Had Scotland been independent then the chances are this wouldn't have happened in the first place. To my knowledge there haven't been any runs on any Norwegian bankshares.
11

Guga II,

Rockall 18/09/2008 01:42:31
Not forgetting the biggest spiv of the lot, Maggie Broon.
12

Independent Scots Thinker,

Perth 18/09/2008 01:49:36
Had Scotland been independent, little ol' (air punchin') Alex wouldn't have been able to do a thing to change the outcome. In fact, it was our BRITISH PM (who does have actual clout) who found a way to save HBOS through arranging a merger.

It is still early days, so I wouldn't use the fact Norway hasn't had a run on the bank yet to be a good example - they don't have world class banks like HBOS or RBS anyway - not that world class means much these days.

13

Royster,

18/09/2008 02:29:24
#14 Obviously if there is a run on oil, Norwegian banks will be in trouble. Norwegians haven't suffered yet but didn't Alex Salmond include Iceland in his 'arc of prosperity'? Those banks have been tanking. Small countries suffer most in crises be they financial or war. Simple really.
14

Royster,

18/09/2008 02:31:49
#4. But Mr Salmond was trying to attract these bankers to Edinburgh. How come they are suddenly spivs now that one of Scotland's financial symbols has been saved by an English bank?
15

ChinaBear,

Hong Kong 18/09/2008 02:45:01
No 7. These faceless spivs are also the SCOTTISH fund managers who are in to this up to their ears. Don't talk baloney by trying to blame this on the English.

The fact is that an English bank now owns the 2nd largest Scottish insurance company and the 2nd largest Scottish bank who were both rescued in times of crisis. It just shows that the UK is one country and that Scottish business is unable to function without the hated English there as customers, or lifesavers in times of collapse.

As for Mr Fish, he's showing his complete lack of power when it comes to business on this scale. More and more my opinion is moving towards the United Kingdom concept and to date, I've been open on the subject.
16

Gianni Vezzutto,

18/09/2008 02:54:44
Is this the same Alex Salmond who on BBC2 Newsnight ( 16 September ) assured Gordon Brewer and everyone listening that HBOS was a sound financial institution with an excellent capital ratio in which everyone's savings were safe?

And because he is a world class economist we should believe him and give him the chance to run an independent Scotland.

Today we have Lloyds Halifax which will be run from London EC2.

Whatever next Alex?...HSBC Royal at Canary Wharf with the Gyle a temporary call centre pending its offshoring?

There is little point in Alex trying to play with the big boys and he would be best to quit while he is only slightly behind.
17

Sierra Foothills Scot,

Diamond Springs 18/09/2008 02:58:35
#15 Royster – If Norwegian banks had not been speculating on oil, they would not be in trouble, particularly since they have the National Oil Fund to back them up. Unfortunately all the tax from Scotland's oil has always gone and is still going directly to HM Treasury, so Scotland has no oil fund.

#16 Royster – Salmond didn't accuse Lloyd's of being "spivs". He meant the market speculators who caused the whole mess, some of them in the Halifax part of HBOS. exposure.
18

Sierra Foothills Scot,

Diamond Springs 18/09/2008 03:01:52
# 14 Independent Scots Thinker - If Norwegian banks had not been speculating on oil, they would not be in trouble, particularly since they have the National Oil Fund to back them up. Unfortunately all the tax from Scotland's oil has always gone and is still going directly to HM Treasury, so Scotland has no oil fund.
19

,

18/09/2008 03:12:06
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
20

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 18/09/2008 03:23:17
Brown has admitted on the EBC that it was all his brilliant idea.
Selling out his country's economic birthright to please the English toffs.
Alex has no choice but to hold an emergency debate in the Scottish Parliament, bring in legislation ordering a 30 day cooling off period. And stop Gordo and his slimy spivs' dirty deal in its tracks.
His presence at the Ryder will be sorely missed.
21

W Smith,

Middle East 18/09/2008 03:29:25
Its naive to think Salmond or Holyrood has any clout on this issue.

Holyrood is a kiddy on "government" with very little real influence and this crisis underlines that.
22

,

18/09/2008 03:51:35
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
23

,

18/09/2008 04:14:26
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
24

W Smith,

Middle East 18/09/2008 04:29:44
#24 The Pict

You're too smart for me.

For years I've pretended to be a working class Fifer but unfortunately you've blown my cover.

I'm really Jewish and I go about slaughtering Palestinians - just don't tell the missus.

BTW
You wouldn't be a supporter of Alex Salmond and the Palestinian supporting SNP by any chance?
25

Royster,

18/09/2008 05:32:15
#24. Just shows what a bunch of crypto-nazis you SNP supporters are.
26

yockel,

18/09/2008 05:47:07
Has Scotland just been asset stripped by Broon and the English?
27

Royster,

18/09/2008 06:04:18
#28. No, a poorly performing high-profile Scottish bank has been saved thanks to the Union.
28

Pilrig.,

Livingston 18/09/2008 06:04:45
27 - if you want to find crypto-fascists in this country go to Ibrox and listening to the singers of the Famine Song.

29

yockel,

18/09/2008 06:06:17
Will go down well in Dunfermline though. lol
30

Pilrig.,

Livingston 18/09/2008 06:06:18
29 - you mean a poorly performing Yorkshire building society which had previously swallowed a Scottish bank.
31

Ursus arctos horribilis,

18/09/2008 06:12:16
I would imagine that the ramifications of this are going to be huge-The Bank of Scotland is much more than a bank-it is a symbol of Scottish national prestige and identity. (I know in reality its heart and brains were ripped out at the time on the Halifax takeover).

As we are led to believe that Brown himself was actively involved in promoting the takeover I wonder if he obtained any assurances as to jobs not being lost in Scotland. As a Scottish politician he must be aware of what the potential impact- with an important by-election looking in Glenrothes and what the disastrous effect of thousands of job losses in Edinburgh would mean.

The Financial services sector was portrayed as being an area of excellence-the so-called "Union dividend". Today that is looking like a sick joke-a 300 year-old institution destroyed by inept management and speculators in the City out to make a fast buck.

Liebour dont have a hope in hell of winning Glenrothes and if today's opinion polls are to be believed they are dead-men walking. The country is facing economic melt-down -for the third time in the past 100 years due to the ineptitude of a Labour Government and a constitutional crisis beckons.

If we had any armed forces left I would think there would be a good chance of a coup d'etat!
32

Black Five,

edinburgh 18/09/2008 06:18:13
Salmond may be right laterly about the spivs but the true blame rests with Howard Brown and his sharp sellers from Yorkshire.This merger now looks like a merger from hell.This bunch got B O S into deep shat.It`s because of their irresposible borrowing they`re in the mess they are in.The new name is to be Llodys /Halifax and their head office in London.B O S is gone in name.What will remain will soon be seen but you can bet there will be much change.A disgraceful episode in Scottish banking history and those in R B S better watch their backs too.
33

Ursus arctos horribilis,

18/09/2008 06:24:32
#30 Thousands of people face losing their jobs and you try and score football points with mock indignation over a football chant-what an ersewipe.

The real nazis are surely those who glorify an organisation that murdered thousands of innocent people.
34

yockel,

18/09/2008 06:25:00
When all said and done HBOS had turned into a call center centric automaton which even its employees had mostly had enough of. Probably time to let it go.
35

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta CA..for more..WAR..VOTE McCain 18/09/2008 06:33:46
17 ChinaBear,Hong Kong

Hey Dude .

Hong Kong is a suffocating steaming cauldron of humidity. Even inside the Marks and Spencer's there ,its hot and humid.

The Hong Kong human mound, is like a rabbit warren but with humidity, that I have ever see.

Have a nice day dude.
GC
36

Geoff,

sa 18/09/2008 06:36:12
Spivs-didn't think anybody still used that word-same era as Teddy Boys. Rather quaint really.
On the subject, semi-aagree with Alex but I would take it further-big business worldwide stinks.We are constantly manipulated by a ruthless,greedy,twisted minority who play roulette with 'gay'(nother old word) abandon trampling without mercy on the lives of billions. I am an avowed free enterprise man but the system is rotten-too much power in too few hands. Case in point-Arcelor Mittal controls a huge proportion of the worlds steel output-the rationale for these big mergers is always "working for the greater efficiency of scale"-which in my book should translate into lower prices. But guess what-since these mergers/takeovers steel prices worldwide have rocketed sky high out of all proportion to any general cost increases! Strange? Strange indeed!
37

Geoff,

sa 18/09/2008 06:38:25
Also a system that allows people to borrow almost
100 % of an assets market value at artificially low interest rates is a recipe for inevitable disaster. I saw this coming five years back. How come gurus like Greenspan didn't?
38

yockel,

18/09/2008 06:41:44
Yes Geoff and because it is a "national emergency" we are about to see an otherwise illegal merger rushed through with no thought to the longterm consequences. Will suit the Unionist adgenda though.
39

Oilman in Qatar,

18/09/2008 07:00:05
Forgive my ignorance, but whilst the 'spivs' (who I despise) may have delivered the 'coup de grace', it has been reported that HBOS needed to refinance $180 Billion of debt and couldn't get anyone to lend it to them at anything other than a loanshark rate. As a shareholder I'm seriously unhappy and feel desperately sorry for the thousands who will lose their jobs. Forget the petty bickering politics it's plain boring!
40

Linda,

Edinburgh 18/09/2008 07:01:53
Salmond is right. Brown and Darling have killed off Bank of Scotland and put thousands of Scottish jobs at risk.

Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling are to blame for failing to introduce measures against short selling and tighter FSA regulations 18 months ago after Northern Rock debacle.
41

Boy Wonder,

18/09/2008 07:05:13
What price our economic Independence now??
42

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 18/09/2008 07:16:11
So we Scots are good with money? Not!

(Just list all the banks and money institutions that have vanished in the last fifty years to see the point here).
43

Glasgow Expat,

Desert 18/09/2008 07:17:16
Long live the spivs I say. Salmond et al advocating banning short selling do not have a clue what they are talking about. Cheerleading a share going up is considered to be good behaviour but if they want that they have to accept the other side of the coin. It's called free market capitalism and sorts out the good from the bad. Politicians just can't handle the fact that the free market is the most powerful force. www.elliottwave.com Read it. They predicted all this.
44

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 18/09/2008 07:40:56
#45.

You forgot to add that with freedom comes responsibility, or else we have licentiousness. The latter is what causes today's problems. All games require rules and regulation, and especially the game of Capitalism. Governments have not kept a regulatory eye on the economic ball.

I wonder why Alex Two Pays never made a fuss about all this BEFORE the ballon went up?
45

Richardinho,

18/09/2008 07:50:01
Alex Salmond is doing the right thing by getting involved and trying to salvage the Scottish interest.
46

Royster,

18/09/2008 07:50:44
Alex looks slightly deranged in that photo. Either that or he has just been goosed.
47

Richardinho,

18/09/2008 07:59:44
I'm reading with incredulity, all those posters who are are celebrating this event which is potentially disastrous for Scotland is a victory for the Union.
48

Edward,

18/09/2008 08:00:48
Short selling is illegal in the US, so why hasnt Alistair Darling done something about this before?
49

Rob,

18/09/2008 08:02:22
#47. It will be a case of "Alex who?" down in London. No-one's going to listen to the "Scotland's special" rantings any longer.... and nor should they.
50

Edward,

18/09/2008 08:04:20
Just listened to someone from Unite being interviewed on Radio Scotland, and saying that she will ask for a meeting with the Shadow First Minister - eh!
Surely some mistake - did she mean the leader of the labour party in Holyrood?
Evn in the worst of times for Scotland, unionism still bleeds through the thinking of the Scottish Trades Union
51

carrottop,

Dumfries 18/09/2008 08:05:16
Get into action before anything happens to the RBS Alex, anyone can comment after the event.
52

Edward,

18/09/2008 08:05:55
#51 Rob
your not Royster are you?
At least our first minister is standing up for us. What is Brown doing? apart from selling Scotland short
53

TWC,

Ayrshire 18/09/2008 08:07:28
This is a disaster for the wee folk, Short selling is never going to benefit the man in the street. Relaxation in the 80's caused this. I was concerned that (Disnae) Kerr's only response was to attack the 1st Minister. Perhaps if it was Northern Rock we would have heard more.
54

Edward,

18/09/2008 08:08:04
I hope Darling has got a hold of the FSA by the scruff of the neck and get them to make short selling illegal, before we have another Bank go the same way
But knowing Darling, he will be sitting on his thumbs waiting on Brown giving orders from the bunker
55

Slioch,

Scottish Highlands 18/09/2008 08:08:13
Alex Salmond talks of "spivs and speculators". I agree.

But just what sort of a man does Salmond think he is welcoming to Scotland in the form of Donald Trump?

Does he really imagine that Trump gained his position of power and influence without indulging in similar behaviour?
56

All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 18/09/2008 08:09:29
#54

Brown much as I have no time for him quietly ensured the continued exsistence of the entity within UK ownership, Salmond resorted to impotent name calling.
57

El Sabio,

Sibbertoft 18/09/2008 08:13:04
Naked short selling is a recipe for disaster!
58

P Rayner.,

Essex. 18/09/2008 08:15:57
How does Salmon best feel he can represent Scotlands interests at an international golfing jamboree? Selling Glasgow pies? Well I'm off to Brisbane surfing meet, representing Englands interests ofcourse. Trouble is I've got to fund it myself, unlike fat guts Salmon, that is ofcourse unless some of you chaps could provide me with finance too, in Englands interests, Scotlands or anybody else, ofcourse.
59

A Crofter,

Western Isles 18/09/2008 08:28:42
Does anyone know the status of Trump's loan application?
60

Ananurhing,

18/09/2008 08:30:28
Totally reprehensible all these bottom feeding unionists above, trying to scrape up some currency out of this. This transcends any party politics and is a dark day for Scotland. One of our key institutions being sold off in a fire sale bargain basement deal, brokered by your glorious westminster leaders.

Look at what all the small independent countries with sovereign wealth funds are doing during these difficult economic times. They're aquiring institutions like HBOS. £12 billion? Chickenfeed!

This is a black day for thousands of Scottish jobs and businesses. We've yet to appreciate the full ramifications of this.

Those of you trying to score cheap political points and undermine the confidence of the country from the carcass of HBOS, need to have a good look at yourselves. Bottom feeding scum! Worse than the predatory spivs who created this situation.
61

Linda,

Edinburgh 18/09/2008 08:36:09
Salmond is right about the Spivs and Speculators.
Short sellers sell shares they don't own. Other countries ban this practice. Brown and Darling have killed off Bank of Scotland and put thousands of Scottish jobs at risk.

Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling are to blame for failing to introduce measures against short selling and tighter FSA regulations 18 months ago after Northern Rock debacle.
62

voltaire's janny,

18/09/2008 08:43:14
Salmond is wrong about spivs and speculators. They are no different than those gambling on upside and growth. he is an economist but no financier it seems. If he is so confident this is a speculative bubble he should pile his cash into HBOS shares and rake it in when their "true" value re-appears. What tosh.
63

All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 18/09/2008 08:43:25
#62

Like Norway who had to suspend trading on the crown in the US market on Monday and inject $16 billion worth of emergency funding. This is a global problem and no country is immune.
64

SlyFifer,

Somewhere south of Fife 18/09/2008 08:46:05
Here is the real problem. Financial markets like technology markets are moving fast and furious in ways that mystify regualtors. That the problems faced by the banks were unseen is just head in the sand reaction to things that the politicians simply do not understand. They are so far removed from the reality of 21st century business that their actions or in most cases, inactions, are nothing short of criminal negligence. Where is Brown ?. Where was the Chancellor ?. It was their stage to be on, to reassure the markets and to take a lead. Their invisibility was deepy worrying and scary. Truely we have Brown as the new Queen of De-nile. How can this dreadful man and his corrupt party survive ?. Why is there no rioting in the streets against these crass incompetents ?. Where is the backbone of the average citizen ?. Surely we can't limit our contempt for these charletons at the ballot box ?.
65

cabrach loon,

inverness 18/09/2008 08:46:11
close the stock exchange for a few days and force all short sellers to make settlement. As far as I understand it they never use money only credit and can only succed through computerised dealings. Legislate to enforce advance payment and make dealings much slower and more cash based to cut back on speculators who destroy investment and encourage gambling. In theory the stock exchange is for investment but now it is becoming more like gambling and this is too dangerous for the bulk of people with their savings and pensions put at risk by speculators - so shut down a lot of the speculation and slow down the markets - for the bulk of us this can only be good. Change must come and now - not in another year of nulab bumbling.

Añso Scotland needs to control itself more - Salmongd is right, England is destroying us.
66

Rob,

18/09/2008 08:47:36
#54. No Edward, I am not Royster. Indeed, I concur with your comment on Brown and the whole bunch of Labour no-hopers for that matter. However, Salmond is a total bystander just like you and I and for him to start now saying that tax cuts are the way out (and they are) is a bigger U turn than even Brown could dream up.
As someone else has pointed out, this one has gone - if he wants to do something positive try getting involved with RBS because they are next. Yes, they are all spivs and and speculators, the banking sector has been devoid of integrity for years but that's what and who you are dealing with and that doesn't change just because some Scots are naive enough to believe that we are special and different from everyone else.
67

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 18/09/2008 08:49:03
Why has the UK no proper anti-trust laws like the US?
The FSA is a toothless tiger!
68

All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 18/09/2008 08:57:09
#69

Like the ones that saved AIG, Lehmans, F*nny Mae and Freddy Mac?
69

Number 6,

Germany 18/09/2008 08:57:40
When are the unionistas going to admit this is the fault of Brown and Darling. They saw none of this coming, or if they did, they did nothing to prevent it. So much for Brown's "brilliant financial mind".
His stewardship of the economy was an unprecidented disaster from day one. The first minister at least sdhows he knows what he is talking about. Something you could never accuse Liebour of.

Yet another reason why we must sever links with Westminster, especially as the future will all be about saving englandshire from going even further down the drain.

I wonder if this will delay the by-election in Glenrothes even further .
70

All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 18/09/2008 09:00:00
#71

the same first minister that was guaranteeing us that HBOS was safe and sound on Monday?
71

izzie,

dundee 18/09/2008 09:02:04
Well Brown did warn us he would do anything to save the union.
72

Ananurhing,

18/09/2008 09:04:07
#65

Not sure if you're disagreeing with me or not! £16 billion emergency funding could have averted this travesty.
73

Calvinist,

18/09/2008 09:05:28
Salmond is right to criticise the spivs but what he failed to do was to criticise the greed and irresponsibility that got HBOS into this position in the first place. Is he still a fan of Thatcherite laissez-faire economics? Sounds like one capitalist spiv criticising other capitalist spivs.
74

All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 18/09/2008 09:07:43
#74

That was $16 Billion into their National economy to shore up foreign currency, they had suspended trading on the crown! in US markets. Not $16 billion to save a badly run already English owned private company.
75

Rob,

18/09/2008 09:07:57
#69. We do have anti-trust laws - if you read the story fully you will see that they have just been waived to allow this althought the EU (invoking the Treaty of Rome) may have something to say about that at some point.

Presumably (Number 6 in Germany) Angela Merkel saw this coming -just like Bush, Sarkozy, Medvedev etc and all the rest of the world?
76

Ananurhing,

18/09/2008 09:11:50
#76

Whatever! The resources were available for them to do what they had to.
77

gus1940,

Edinburgh 18/09/2008 09:15:01
Am I being paranoid or could this be the start of the real dirty tricks being perpetrated by the hardline unionists to stop the march to independence.

Are the spivs responsible for shorting the HBOS shares actually front men for hardline unionists not entirely unconnected with the UK government.
78

McMillar,

Fife 18/09/2008 09:17:23
HBOS has completely failed and this is never a ‘merger’. Lloyds will be calling the shots and that may be a good thing as they seem to have a better handle on finances. Little point in Salmond pointing fingers and positioning here as it is now history. Did nothing to stop them getting into this position and all politicians will now be falling over themselves to analyse and offer help (which they can’t deliver). Why do we have a parliament in Scotland? Pointless. As for the FSA…….didn’t Crosby turn up there.
79

Alastair the First,

18/09/2008 09:18:57
Gordon Brown seemed to be overeager for this takeover to occur - I don't suppose the short selling was orchestrated by him by any chance? If not, he certainly welcomes it as he would love to see the Scottish economy destroyed for his own political ends.

What a pity the Scottish Government doesn't have the powers to deal fully with this type of situation. And why is short selling not illegal - selling something you don't own sounds suspiciously like fraud to me.
80

Rob,

18/09/2008 09:22:38
#79. I think you've sussed it. In fact, I think the entire Credit Crunch is a global plot, led by Gordon Brown, to deny Scotland independence and lay claim to oor oil
81

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 18/09/2008 09:23:38
3.Royster

Youre never ending moronic comments never cease to disgust me.
The Bank of Scotland has now gone t*ts up WHILE SCOTLAND IS PART OF THE "SECURE" UNION and you fault Scottish Independence.
Youre taking stupidy into a whole new arena.
82

Ananurhing,

18/09/2008 09:26:45
#79 gus

I don't know. You have to wonder if it influenced Brown's methodology in dealing with the situation.
Nothing would surprise me. How would he have dealt with an English bank in the same situation.

Unconnected with the HBOS debacle, I am convinced that Brown is prepared to lay waste to Scotland to preserve the union. No surprises there. It's his primary objective.
83

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 18/09/2008 09:26:47
15

Nobody is suffering this crises harder than the USA you dumb sh*t and the Sh*t is flowing out from there.
You dont even think before you post yer bile as long as you get your anti SNP dig in the content doesnt actually matter does it?
84

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 18/09/2008 09:28:08
16

Are you now stupidly going to claim that there are no spivs in the financial sectors?
85

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 18/09/2008 09:29:53
23

For once I agree and the only cure for that problem is full independence and autonomy.
Nice to see you finally get the big picture.
86

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 18/09/2008 09:30:57
27

There is nothing crypto about your nazi credentials though is there?
87

Glasgow Expat,

Desert 18/09/2008 09:32:22
Carnegie was a classic spiv and speculator by the way. Stick that in your righteous pipes.
88

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 18/09/2008 09:32:49
29

It went down thanks to the Union and the incompetant UK government isnt it funny how the UK government stopped Lloyds from taking over one bank due to competitions laws but not this time?
89

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 18/09/2008 09:35:12
44

We are when we contol it but as we handed it over to the English in 1707 it hasnt worked out so well.
90

Andra, Dundee,

18/09/2008 09:36:54
Salmond is riding the band wagon again.
Of course he is right to blame the hedge funds - but he is making zero contribution to finding a solution since there is nothing he can do.
However in the meantime he will whip up a bit of nationalist sentiment.
91

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 18/09/2008 09:37:25
51

Why not arent we supposed to be equal partners in a union? or are you now confirming that we are in fact just a non entity within the union?
92

St Andrew,

Edinburgh 18/09/2008 09:37:34
I agree with Alex about the "Spivs & Speculators" but Alex.....going to the Ryder Cup to represent "Scottish interests"!!!!

Shot, foot, kettle, black comes to mind.
93

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 18/09/2008 09:40:17
65

Aye lucky for them they had it to inject eh? oh wait a minute it wasnt luck it was astute financial planning and having full and total control of their resourses that allowed them to do it.
94

Andra, Dundee,

18/09/2008 09:40:18
#79 gus1940
You need some medication before you get any more paranoid.
95

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 18/09/2008 09:42:37
72

Is that why the UK gover