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The mask slips: ETA pledges all-out war

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Published Date: 06 June 2007
THE armed Basque separatist group ETA said yesterday it was ending its 15-month-old ceasefire and warned Spain's government of new attacks "on all fronts".
In a communiqué sent to Basque media, the rebels said they were calling off the truce because of "arrests, tortures and every type of persecution" by the Socialist government.

ETA, which has been fighting for independence for the Basque territori
es for four decades, declared a ceasefire in March 2006 and had insisted that it still held despite killing two people with a bomb in Madrid airport in December last year.

The government of prime minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero started exploratory peace talks in mid-2006, but broke them off at the end of the year after the airport bomb.

At the time, ETA said it had not meant to kill anyone and was only seeking concessions in peace talks.

"ETA wishes to announce that it is abandoning its permanent ceasefire and has decided to act on all fronts in defence of Euskal Herria," the group said, using the Basque language name for the Basque Country.

Mr Zapatero said the ceasefire had already been broken in December by ETA, which also called off an earlier truce in 1999.

"ETA's decision is absolutely the opposite of what Basque and Spanish society want: the road to peace," he said. "Spanish society has shown over a long period that pain does not sap its strength, that suffering does not reduce its determination," he added.

The ETA announcement, widely anticipated by state security services, could mean a big attack is imminent, analysts said. "They will probably stage attacks, it's possible they might carry out assassinations," said Pello Salaburu, a former rector of the Basque Country University, who added that he thought the group was doomed by falling levels of support.

"They don't understand how much people hate them... They live on another planet," he said.

ETA has killed more than 800 people in four decades of armed struggle for independence of the ancient Basque territories of northern Spain and southern France.

Most Basques do not want to secede from Spain, polls show, and the Basque Country already enjoys considerable autonomy.

More than 700 arrests in Spain and France since 2000 seriously weakened the rebels, who also lost support after the Madrid bombings in 2004 increased public revulsion against terrorism, security services believe.

On the streets of one Basque town, Getxo, the reaction to ETA's move was one of dismay.

"It's enough to make you want to go into exile," said Patxi Bengoetxea, 70. "We don't want to be with Spain, but we don't want to have anything to do with these brothers of ours, these sons of ours either."

The end of the ceasefire is bad news for Mr Zapatero who defied fierce criticism from opposition conservatives by opening exploratory peace talks with ETA. The government says it wants a negotiated solution to the Basque conflict but will talk to ETA only if it abandons violent activity.

ETA's banned political party ally Batasuna was not allowed to take part in last month's regional elections. "We suffer from a lack of democracy," complained ETA in its communiqué, adding: "The recent elections were illegitimate."

UPRISING AGAINST DICTATORSHIP TURNED TO TERRORISM


FOR decades, ETA sowed terror in Spain with car bombings and assassinations, after beginning its struggle in the last days of Spain's right-wing dictatorship.

Its aim is the creation of an independent Basque state in northern Spain and south-western France.

Euskadi ta Askatasuna, meaning Basque Homeland and Freedom, was founded in 1959 when General Francisco Franco ruled and the Basque language was suppressed.

It was not until in 1968 that it carried out its first killing, of Meliton Manzanas, the chief of police in the Basque city of San Sebastian.

In 1973, Franco's prime minister, Luis Carrero Blanco, was killed when his car passed over explosives planted by ETA in Madrid. ETA's bloodiest year was in 1980 when nearly 100 people were killed, despite Spain's recent return to democracy.

In total, ETA has killed more than 800 people since 1968, typically using car bombs or shootings. The number of ETA killings had fallen from 23 in 2000 to just three in 2003.

In 2002, the Spanish parliament passed a law which effectively banned the Basque political party Batasuna, which it described as ETA's political wing. The party denies the allegation.

From May 2003 to 30 December 2006, ETA killed no-one until a bomb went off at Madrid Airport, killing two Ecuadorians.



The full article contains 762 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 05 June 2007 10:34 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: ETA
 
1

Skirvy,

Auld Reek 06/06/2007 00:32:17

Fight on ETA!!

2

Conan,

Here 06/06/2007 01:08:17

Never contemplate the illusion of negotiating with terrorists. Instead, confront them, crush then and destroy them. make the price of their actions so high that their own peolple would gladly slit their throats just to put an end to their misery. The problem here (in Spain) is that the idiot socialists did not understand this and like all socialist illusions convinced themselves that their dreams were a reality. Well, now they know different. Let's see how effective they are in dealing with this. If its anything like their Iraq effort they'll turn tail and run.

3

Scullion,

Canada 06/06/2007 01:09:21

This is why Spain aligned itself with the U.S. in its international forays. By branding ETA a terrorist group it can ask for , and probably will receive, anti-terrorist help from America.

4

sandy,

USA 06/06/2007 03:28:45

to all appeasers of terrorist groups in your countries,
& you know who you are, they(terrorists) don't like you....no matter what kindness you give them, they will never like you, they hate you & your way of life.
you can't have ""exploratory peace talks""w/these monsters as Zapatera did & expect them to listen..
you can't negotiate w/them, you can't sit down at the table w/them & you can't trust them.....they are & always will be your enemy......the terrorist names & groups may be different but their mission doesn't change....

5

Leon,

Hong Kong 06/06/2007 04:57:33

Gora Euskada!!!

See that old misery guts Walter Mitty has moved to Spain.

6

Alan Reid,

NZ 06/06/2007 05:33:53

Sandy, Was Ho Chi Min a terrorist or a freedom fighter?

7

Finnking II,

Finland 06/06/2007 05:46:01

Sandy,

Come on, you know that one person's 'terrorist' is another's 'freedom fighter'. Remember when Mandela and ANC were regarded as 'terrorists'? Your point about being unable to negotiate with them is exactly the point they are making. Solution: End this crazy notion of nation states and let cultures flourish and develop.

Off Thread: Congratulations to your mum in-law on her century. A fantastic achievement.

8

Jethro's flute,

06/06/2007 07:09:00

#6 Ho Chi Min was an evil communist.

#7 More marxist drivel from you. I expect nothing less.

9

big big fun,

06/06/2007 07:38:58

no 2 conan is that you getting nearer to iraq to fight the good fight ?

10

big big fun,

06/06/2007 07:39:57

no 2 conan maybe take Jethro's flute with you ?

11

big big fun,

06/06/2007 07:49:41

no 2 is a great number for you conan with all the sh ite you spout .i think maybe you could change your name to conan the human colostomy bag because you are so full of ?????

12

Kevin Williamson,

TheScottishPatient.com 06/06/2007 08:25:07

Its easy to blame ETA for renewed conflict if the realities of living inside the Basque Country are never reported in the press over here.

After the ceasefire of March 2006, Zapatero's government had a real opportunity for creating the framework for genuine peace, and politics through dialogue and democracy, but chose to imprison Basques and ban Basque political parties like Batasuna instead.

If the ceasefire has now been officially ended by ETA then Zapatero has to take a large slice of the responsibility for this. He had the power to create a genuine and lasting peace but chose conflict and repression instead. It didnt have to be this way.

13

Finnking II,

Finland 06/06/2007 08:28:22

8. Jethro's flute

Don't quite know how to tell you this but, i'm not a 'Marxist'. Neither is/was Putin, Chavez, Castro, Stalin etc. If I say, "I'm a tree" it doesn't make me a tree.

There are various aspcts of what Marx thought that I agree with. He wrote mostly about capitalism and even the lauded Greenspan regarded reading Marx as the best way to understand capitalism.

Ask yourself why you have this 'fear'/'concern'/dislike' of Marx.

I'm an anarchist. Ask yourself why you have this 'fear'/'concern'/dislike' of Anarchism.

Or as I like to call it: "Libertarian Socialism"!

I am sitting in the garden closer than most of you to the Russians. I'm in a country that Russia has attacked. I'm not remotely concerned out the russians nor are the Finns. Why are you concerned?

Like most Europeans and south americans and africans etc. I feel that the biggest threat to mankind at this point in history is the elites of the USA/'uk' and their hegemony. Not Russia. Not Grenada, not Nicuragua, not Cuba, not Panama, not Afghanistan, not Iraq, not Iran.

Although I do wish they would tidy up the nuclear reactors!

14

Aine80,

Pamplona (basque region) 06/06/2007 08:33:31

It's a complicated issue. It is not as easy as to say "the basques want the independence and they are denied so by Spain". While many vote for nationalists parties in the elections, there's also many others who have no interest in becoming independent or forming part of a new country called Euskal Herria ("basque country" in basque). Just have a look at the voting results to see what I'm talking about. Navarra has strogly defended their will to continue on as part of Spain (PP being the most voted party), Vitoria has traditionally voted for pro-Spain parties or stayed neutral and the french basque regions (Biarritz), while proud of their basqueness they have never stated their desire to stop being France.

Problem? The radicals are just like in any other country, very loud and noisy, need to be active so people listen to their demands and only hear what they want to hear. Basques, navarrans, spanish, french... we're sooo tired of them.

What everybody in this country would like to know is what exactly Zapatero PROMISED these muppets so they would call a ceasefire in the first place. They've never made their demands a secret:

1.- Independence.
2.- Navarra part of the Basque Country.
3.- All jailed terrorists free.

I always thought that negotiations meant taking but also giving..? These people are simply not willing to not having every single one of their demands met. If you don't give them exactly what they want they'll go on a rant and blow your head off. Is that the "basque democracy" they always talk about?

There is a lot of tension growing here and nobody can see the end of the tunnel, nevermind the light.

15

Aine80,

Pamplona (basque region) 06/06/2007 08:38:17

Zapatero thought that he could sort out a decades old problem in a year and it has backfired on him. I guess the ongoing and bad feelings between the two main parties in this country (PSOE and PP) doesn't help to start doing things right.

16

Covert Action,

06/06/2007 08:42:57

let's hope the Spaniards will wake up and vote that lefty muslim-loving moron Zapatero out of office.

17

Aine80,

Pamplona (basque region) 06/06/2007 08:49:05

#12

Your view on the basque issue is exactly what the radicals want to hear. Batasuna were banned for not respecting democratic ways, for refusing to condemn their killings, for supporting ETA (their leader was seen giving speeches at terrorists' funerals, their second in command clapping while others burnt a spanish flag in a meeting), a few ETA masked members made an appearance at a Batasuna meeting recently shooting guns while suporters clapped, all other political leaders need protection from ETA and Batasuna say "it's their fault for not supporting democracy in the basque country".

What they understand for "democracy" is a mistery for the rest of us "fascists"..?

18

Firozali A.Mulla MBA PhD,

Dar-Es-Salaam Tanzania 06/06/2007 09:39:23

THE armed Basque separatist group ETA said yesterday it was ending its 15-month-old ceasefire and warned Spain's government of new attacks "on all fronts".

I am not interested from the front. Can I attack from the back?
sort of chicken????

19

Red Sonja,

06/06/2007 09:46:36

If it does it for you Fizzali yeah why not, I'l set you up on a date with Conan as he's a bit lonely these days. I'm sure he'l cluck like a goodun for you baby.

20

Firozali A.Mulla MBA PhD,

Dar-Es-Salaam Tanzania 06/06/2007 09:47:41

No 17
Only Bush knows the meaning of democarcy. Please dont talk to any one about this.
No 16
I am a muslim. Any problem. You need gun powder from Tanzania.
No 14
Yep I dont understand you at all....
No 13
If in doubt keep the zip shut. Dont guess. The crowd in Germany are breaking the glases of the cars and the shops and the meeting is FAAARRRRR away. I jsut saw Bush and Mrs Bush coming out from the plane. Others came by boat???? See BBC

No 8
Flute does not work in the meeting, you need guns. Try the flute with the mice Tom anfd Jerry, take them for a ride in the Cindrella Buggy.

No 2 Conan or NoName. I dont understand why you write the histroy of Spain..

Look I am off to the business corner. Hold the fort Ta see you. There is monopoly and Jail there.

21

Alan Reid,

Planet earth, the only one we've got!! 06/06/2007 10:13:07

Jethro's flute, #6 'Ho Chi Min was an evil communist'
You are very wrong there. Ho Chi Min was a communist, but he was not evil. The French invaded Vietnam (they call it colonization) Min just wanted his country to be free of the French, which was their right.
The French were brutal when the Vietnamese stepped out of line; they were still using the Guillotine into the 1950s, thousand also died from the conditions in the plantations.
The Japanese took Vietnam in the 1940s, and so the Allies told Ho Chi Min, “fight for us and you’ll have independence after the war” So Ho Chi Min and his mates fought on our side during the war, and when it was over? Well as usual in these cases, the french wanted Vietnam back and Britain and America did nothing despite its promise of independence. So Ho Chi Min was back at square one, so when China said “come over to us and we will supply and support you in your struggle” it was a bit of a no brainer really was it?
Ho Chi Min and Vietnam gets shafted, and so with Chinese help he kicks out the French. Then of course the Yanks are thinking oh shit! Vietnam going all commie on us. So in they went, and got a real ass kicking, the rest is history as you would know. All this and Vietnam was just a little third world country as well.
Jethro mate, it would have been just a bit easier for everyone concerned if we had not done the dirty on the Vietnamese after the war. I believe Ho Chi Min was a great man; he fought well and long to free his country. I was over there in 94, and it’s my favorite in all the countries I’ve been to, it’s beautiful (what wasn’t destroyed by the US) and the people are really friendly despite the hardships that face them.
Ho Chi Min was not evil, but he was forced to turn to China when he was faced with the deception of the allies.
One mans freedom fighter, is other mans terrorist.

22

Aine80,

Pamplona, Navarre (basque REGION not country) 06/06/2007 10:53:53

Someone pointed out on a previous report on ETA that Spain is a big anti-democratic country for refusing to hold a referendum on basque independence. And for torturing jailed basque inmates.

That's a lot of rubbish. I was born and live here, that couldn't be further from the truth.

Spain has been saying for YEARS that no talks will be held until ETA hands in the weapons and accepts the democracy rules. As simple as that. Who would sit down and talk to someone who has a gun under the table, ready to be fired? I think the spanish government demands are nothing but fair and understandable.

As usual, the fight for "freedom" is seen under a romantic, dramatic point of view. Spain is not occupying this piece of land, it has always been spanish territory. Only for 100 years were Bilbao, San Sebastian, etc. independent and that was when they were part of the Kingdom of Navarra. And the latest have no interest of joining them for this new "adventure".

Franco invested heavily in the basque country which led to an enormous wealth for this region (never mentioned by the radicals). They have a special tax regime for companies which make them play with advantage over the rest of Spain, they have their own police force (those "foreign forces occupying the basque country" are a lot of sh*t), the basque language is spoken completely freely from any harassement, any political parties except from Batasuna have can have a saying at the elections...

And apparently the central government is not democratic with them?? Come on.

What these people never speak of is the atmosphere of terror, of fear of speaking in public, of saying "I don't agree with you" without getting a violent response, fear of having a different view on political issues, priests and politicians who critizise them get a bullseye with their name on it painted outside their homes, decent ordinary people with medium businesses receive threaten

23

sandy,

USA 06/06/2007 11:03:47

#21--Alan Reid---your history lesson is correct:),
w/one exception...the "yanks" didn't get a "real ass kicking"......we won all battles, & had Congress not cut the funds? who knows what the outcome would have been......FDR made the deal & Truman broke it......that was an enormous mistake!!
""Ho Chi Min was an evil communist""?..that is in the 'eye of the beholder'.....

24

JGM20,

Edinburgh 06/06/2007 11:19:09

Interesting comments from Kevin Williamson and Aine80, but it sounds like Aine80 is more attuned to general attitudes in the Basque region re ETA and Batasuna. I've visited the Basque country and wonder what KW means by "realities of living inside" it. He seems to imply its inhabitants live under or are imprisoned 'within' some kind of intolerable yoke, which is not my experience or that of those I know who live there and others who visit. Maybe some tabloid-style exaggeration there, because it seems they fear ETA more than the Govt. He's right to criticise the Govt if it negotiated in bad faith, but from what Aine80 says that seems more difficult to argue than arguing that ETA and Batasuna negotiated in bad faith. 'Negotiating' by murder and torture is cynical and despicable. Let's condemn that. Those who have tortured prisoners should be prosecuted and ETA should know, from outside observers like us as well, that murdering helpless natives and foreigners is abhorrent and futile, and generally breeds more hate and anger. Let's not be mealy-mouthed about this or be one-sided in criticism. State the obvious: murder, like torture, is wrong. Let's think of the potential victims as well as those who feel or who are victimised.

25

sandy,

USA 06/06/2007 11:21:46

#7--FinnkingII---i'm happy to see you back:o))...
i stand by my post @#4..every word!!... you can't negotiate with terrorists, for it isn't in their playbook....

an "anarchist"??...how quaint...;) thanks for your congrat's for our centenarian....

26

sandy,

USA 06/06/2007 11:31:00

#17--Aine80-----""your view on the basque issue is exactly what the radicals want to hear"".....

i'm in agreement........

27

sandy,

USA 06/06/2007 11:34:10

#24--JGM20---""negotiating" by murder & torture is cynical & despicable""...""lets condem that""......

well stated...

28

Oliver F,

UK 06/06/2007 11:47:41

First of all lets deal with Nelson Mandela and the ANC. Sorry to disapoint you finnking II but just because the cause of the ANC was legitimate does not mean they werent involved in terrorism. Nelson Mandela and the ANC WERE terrorists. They carried out bombings that killed large numbers of civilians. Plain and simple.

I disagree with those who say it was wrong to try and negotiate with ETA. Negotiations finally brought an end to the troubles in Northern Ireland so it was worth attempting. Unfortunately I dont think ETA ever had any intention of sincere negotiations. Interestingly enough they shared a tactic with the palestinian terrorist groups; declaring a ceasefire and still carrying out attacks.

ETA should call a halt to all hostilities. Stop planning attacks. Call a ceasefire and stick to it. Enter genuine negotiations and turn to the political process. It wont happen but its what they should do.

29

Aine80,

Pamplona, Navarre (basque REGION not country) 06/06/2007 12:16:44

#28

There's nobody out there who wishes longlasting peace to arrive more than the spanish and basques.

Basque radicals love comparing this to the N.I. peace process however they conveniently forget to mention that the IRA handed in all weapons before reaching an agreement.

So far Sinn Feinn have abandoned the idea of a united Ireland (for now) in favour of peace and understanding with those who have different ideas.

Batasuna and ETA will never do that; they want complete independence and Navarra to join them in it. They are not willing to listen and accept other proposals and until they change that attitude no agreement will be reached. To negotiate doesn't mean you get everything you want and most definitely you don't threaten people with guns to get it.

Todays society in the Basque Country and Navarre does not support them. We vote for democratic parties and ways of reaching our aims. A proof of this is the little support they always get in the elections.

What would happen to the hundreds of thousands of navarrans and basques who do not agree with them if these people ever reach the power? Will we have to emigrate? Leave everything behind us? Will we be the new jews of the XXI century?

30

Aine80,

Pamplona, Navarre (basque REGION not country) 06/06/2007 12:41:23

What saddens me most is the bad impression most people have on the word "basque". Batasuna and ETA have managed to ruin and tarnish what once meant a unique culture and language, unique traditions, lovely landscapes and hardworking people.

Navarra, the Basque Country and southern France share loads of cultural ties, the language being the most significant one. But mixing this and politics is clearly a bad idea.

I have experienced the effects of that myself; while in other regions of Spain for work I would get some looks and scornful comments when I had to say my surname (clearly of basque origins) or where I was from. And I wouldn't know how to react, should I strike back or feel upset? That's when I understood that it was that minority of radicals who were killing the rest of us silently, not with bombs but by killing our culture and good name.

Thank God the rest of Spain is now starting to realize that to speak basque doesn't mean you're antidemocratic but a cultural right.

31

Alan Reid,

NZ 06/06/2007 14:55:05

sandy, USA, "......we won all battles' isn't that irevaliant?

32

Finnking II,

Finland 06/06/2007 15:54:45

28. Oliver F, UK

Hi,

The point I was trying to make is that the elites determine who is a terrorist and who is a freedom fighter and use the media to propgate that objective and changing view. OBL is no longer number one bad guy according to the US elites.

We are encouraged to see these people as 'terrorists' or 'good guys' based upon a far from moral criterion. How can the USA goverment complain about terrorist acts of others without any sense of shame or irony? And it works the other way too.

25. sandy, USA

"You cant negotiate with terrorists...."

-- You can when it suits you. Suharto was, without doubt, an derrenged terrorist but the US negotiated with him quite well; lots of weapons sold and lots of folk killed, no worries. THe USA Gov negotiated with the Taleban, no problems until they got off message with the pipeline deal. The Saudo dynasty is a brutal regime, the US gov negotiates with them regularly. Kuwait? Same. Serbia? Same. Saddam? Same.

THe US gov (of both hues) negotiate regularly with what most folk would call 'terrorists'.

33

arrakis,

06/06/2007 16:50:23

If you are going to Spain on holiday, make sure your children know not to touch any bags or objects which could contain explosives lying about on the beach, buses, trains, in bars etc.

If the ceasefire is off before the Summer you can be sure they will target the resorts. These people mean business.

34

Oliver F,

UK 06/06/2007 16:51:56

Finnking 32

Hope you are well :)

Now you said:

"The point I was trying to make is that the elites determine who is a terrorist and who is a freedom fighter and use the media to propgate that objective and changing view."

I wouldnt disagree with you there but I dont go by any "elites" determinations of who the terrorists are. That leads on nicely to this bit you said:

"THe US gov (of both hues) negotiate regularly with what most folk would call 'terrorists'."

The trouble nowadays is that the word terrorist and terrorism are being used far too broadly and loosely. I prefer a defintion of terrorism which is that terrorism is the deliberate or indiscriminate targetting of civilians using violent means to achieve a political/territorial goal." I am very careful what groups I attach the terrorism label too.

Yes the US has got a history of negotiating or supporting some very heinous, brutal regimes with Saudi Arabia being a prime example. There is a difference between that and supporting terrorists. Although I freely admit that the US does ashamedly support a few terrorist groups.

35

American,

USA 06/06/2007 16:52:36

#3-Scullion-Why would you think they would ask for our help? I think most countries nowadays dont want to be associated with us.

36

Finnking II,

Finland 06/06/2007 17:36:25

34. Oliver F

Thanks, i'm fine. Summer is here with PLUS 30C today; I stress the PLUS part! (Temp fluctuation of over 65C each year! Anyway, I just like to make the most of the summer and tend to stay outside a lot so cannot post as much. Posting is a winter sport!

I fully agree with you regarding the need to define terms and i'm 'happy' to accept yours. If we assume your definition, it cannot be denied that the US/'uk' gov (not the people etc etc) have not only supported terrorists but have been terrorists.

You should look into what the EU is doing just now regarding the definition of 'terrorist' and the activities the various governments can take to 'combat' it. It would make Wolfowitz, Cheney et al jealous!

I also agree that dialogue always helps providing that it's sincere and there is a genuine, mutual, desire for conflict resolution. However, in a world where the arms trade (powered by the masses' money and owned by the wealthy) and the power trade and the industrialists' needs are put ahead of the needs of the common man/woman....I cannot see the scope for sincerity.

While we have the myth of nation states (tax zones) we will never have peace. Do I want 'one world' built upon neo-liberalism? No, most definately not. Capital doesn't need a passport nor does it have a flag. However, sadly, the 'herd' does. It's time to catch up, it's time to reject nationalism and embrace culturalism. It won't be perfect but it will be a damn sight more peaceful that what we have just now.

Still, the grass grows and the chickens continue to rip up my flower beds. 1st one to the herbs is soup!

Take care Oliver, hope the medication has settled things down for you and you can enjoy the summer months. I always (well, most times!) a pleasure to discuss with you.)

Chicken soup tomorrow!

37

American,

USA 06/06/2007 18:03:15

#20-Firazola- Do you eat stupid for breakfast??

38

,

06/06/2007 19:19:58
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
39

Itchy,

06/06/2007 19:29:55

"13. Finnking II, Finland / 9:28am 6 Jun 2007 8. Jethro's flute

Don't quite know how to tell you this but, i'm not a 'Marxist'. Neither is/was Putin, Chavez, Castro, Stalin etc. If I say, "I'm a tree" it doesn't make me a tree."

Yes, you are a marxist. I've seen your posts full of marxist ideas and you are always in praise of marxist governments, just like the ones you claim are not marxist.

You are, therefore, a compulsive liar.

40

Itchy,

06/06/2007 19:32:20

#13 "even the lauded Greenspan regarded reading Marx as the best way to understand capitalism."

Greenspan was the chairman of a central bank, in other words, a nationalization of the money supply. The idea of a central bank is marxist and

41

Itchy,

06/06/2007 19:34:37

#21 "
You are very wrong there. Ho Chi Min was a communist, but he was not evil. The French invaded Vietnam (they call it colonization) Min just wanted his country to be free of the French, which was their right."

Of course he was evil. By your own admission, he was a communist and communism is evil. It has killed millions throughout it's history.

As for French brutality, the answer is not communism nor is communism the answer to any problem. Communism is totalitarian in theory and practice.

42

busybee,

USA 06/06/2007 20:55:45

I can't believe some of these posts... people rooting for the terrorists...

43

Caora Dubh,

Dhachaigh 06/06/2007 21:16:41

Who cares about Ho Chi Min? The article is about ETA's drive for an independent Euskal Herria. ETA is like the IRA, and Batasuna is like Sinn Feinn. If Basques could vote freely for Batasuna (just as Scots can vote for the SNP), then ETA would have no excuse for violence. It is despicable that Batasuna is banned and Basques cannot vote for independence. This gives ETA an excuse for attacking Spanish military targets, and allows it to drum up support. However, only the worst scum deliberately kill and maim unarmed civilians. Neither the Spanish government nor ETA, nor anyone else has a right to do so, regardless of what the other side does. If ETA deliberately maims and kills civilians, and it enjoys majority support among the Basque people, then Basques are a despicable and dishonorable nation unworthy of self-determination. Does Batasuna support the targeting of civilians?

44

busybee,

USA 06/06/2007 21:42:51

Oh, it's okay to kill unsuspecting Spanish military... but not civillians... with acts of terrorism in order to get attention to the their cause?

45

Pilrig,

Livingston 06/06/2007 22:37:20

22 - and the sanctimonious old fart Franco didn't ban the Basque language ? A language so unique that it deserves World Heritage status.

46

Conan,

Here 06/06/2007 22:56:14

Quite right #46 - it sounds a lot like Helensburghese.

47

Oliver F,

UK 06/06/2007 23:30:02

Finnking #37

I am glad you are well and making the most of the summer. I am doing very well and I am due another infusion next week so that will assist me some more. Frustratingly National Institute for Clinical Excellence (NICE) has yet again delayed its decision on whether the health service should fund the wider use of this medicine. Very annoying but the battle goes on. Thats a whole other issue though...

"If we assume your definition, it cannot be denied that the US/'uk' gov (not the people etc etc) have not only supported terrorists but have been terrorists."

I think the issue of support is one without doubt... when it comes to the issue of the US/UK having been terrorists I can see where you are coming from. Not sure I agree but I do understand the sentiment (assuming you are referring to issues like Iraq.)

"I also agree that dialogue always helps providing that it's sincere and there is a genuine, mutual, desire for conflict resolution."

I think you highlighted the crux of the matter. There has to be a sincere and genuine desire to negotiate not to mention a willingness to make compromises. Of course the whole issue of the arms industry doesnt exactly help. Thats putting it in a nice british understated way I think LOL

You make some interesting points as always on the bigger picture regarding nationalism etc

I echo your statements about usually enjoying our discussions. Often times, something you or thatscottishwoman says make me think much more deeply about issues. Thats a good thing. I may be opinionated but I do try to be open minded.

By the way you really made me chuckle at the chicken soup gag :)))

48

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 07/06/2007 02:04:19

-- I prefer a defintion of terrorism which is that "terrorism is the deliberate or indiscriminate targetting of civilians using violent means to achieve a political/territorial goal."

Therefore the USA is the world's worse rogue nation.

49

American,

USA 07/06/2007 02:54:53

#43-BusyBee-Unbelievable, isn't it! Wait until "Wally" does his postings on the subject. They're so ridiculous that you just have to laugh.

50

Pilrig,

Livingston 07/06/2007 05:29:11

Conan 47 - It's the original European language -owing nothing to yer Indo-European johnny-come-lately slang.

51

Oliver F,

UK 07/06/2007 13:04:08

Yok Finney #49

Care to expand on that and explain further why you think USA is the worlds worse rogue nation?

52

Kevin Williamson,

TheScottishPatient.com 07/06/2007 14:23:26

Aine80 - I respect your point of view, and understand that the situation in the Basque Country is complex. But your comments do not tally up with either my own experiences in the Basque Country nor with the some hard political facts about Batasuna.

For instance, you write:

"Batasuna and ETA ... want complete independence and Navarra to join them in it. They are not willing to listen and accept other proposals and until they change that attitude no agreement will be reached. To negotiate doesn't mean you get everything you want and most definitely you don't threaten people with guns to get it."

This is not a reality on several counts. Batasuna have repeatedly stated that the only precondition for meaningful dialogue is for the Spanish goverment to recognise that all the people living in the Basque Country should have THE RIGHT to democratically decide for themselves on the question of self-determination. This is a democratic right recognised by the United Nations, by most demcratic nations, but which is still not recognised by the Spanish state.

And secondly, it is the Spanish state who want to negotiate with guns in their hands. The Basque Country is the most heavily militarised anywhere in Western Europe. The Spanish state has currently positioned 35,000 armed security agents in the Basque Country - which North and South, has a population less than Scotland.

I know fine well how these armed security agents act, because the last time I was in your beautiful country (in January) myself and my daughter were shot at, by police firing plastic bullets. A young woman near us was hit in the leg. It was a miracle no one was more seriously injured. This was a peaceful protest until the police opened fire. It was entirely unprovoked and I felt it was an outrage and have filed an official complaint with the Spanish Consulate here in Edinburgh.

Here's a link to a video I took on my mobile phone when the Basque Autono

53

Conan,

Here 07/06/2007 23:35:46

#51, Pilrig - you mean like wot you just posted?


 

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