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BNP to get £670,000 from taxpayers to fund campaign

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Published Date:
07 February 2007
POLITICIANS and anti-racism campaigners reacted with outrage last night when it emerged that the far-right British National Party was to get its own election broadcast during this year's Holyrood campaign as well as hundreds of thousands of pounds in free election publicity from the taxpayer.
The Scotsman has learned that the BNP is to field candidates across Scotland for the first time in May. It will put up 32 candidates, four on each of the eight regional lists.

This is partly an attempt to maximise the far-right vote. But it is also a tactic to get the most out of the electoral rules. Any party which stands at least four candidates in every region is entitled to a party election broadcast.

The party said it hopes all its candidates will live in the area they aim to represent, but it has three Scottish members, currently living in England, who are willing to stand north of the border if required.

As well as gaining a nationwide television platform, the party will also be able to claim postal costs from the government for each candidate to send a leaflet to every voter in their region or constituency.

This is another rule established to help candidates get their message out, but the BNP will use it to send out 2.6 million leaflets, one to every household in Scotland. The cost of second-class postage on these will be £594,000.

The three to four-minute party election broadcast, at prime time on BBC1 Scotland, BBC2 and the Scottish parts of the ITV network, is the equivalent of about £75,000 of advertising time - giving the BNP almost £670,000 in free publicity.

Christine May, for Labour, said she was outraged that the BNP was using the system just to get itself a party election broadcast.

She said: "This is a clear misuse of the electoral system. They are doing it because there is no other way of getting publicity for their obnoxious policies.

"They are treating the electorate with the same sort of contempt they usually reserve for ethnic minorities."

Chris Bartter, for the Unison union, which has campaigned consistently against racism, said: "We have had previous experience of the BNP's message of hate. In the 2004 European elections they used our taxes to send out material that was full of half-truths, mistruths and groundless assertions.

"The BNP masquerade as respectable politicians, but the reality is that they abuse taxpayers' money to promote their aim of whipping up hatred against immigrants and asylum seekers."

And Robina Qureshi, director of Positive Action for Housing, said: "

These are fascists masquerading as politicians and we will see them off. We will make sure they don't get a platform."

Kenny Smith, BNP spokesman in Scotland, said the party had most of its candidates in place and was confident of getting the remainder within weeks.

He said the BNP aimed to attract 40,000 votes across Scotland. "A crew from BNP TV will come up to film the broadcast nearer the time," he said.

The party believes its anti-immigration approach will win votes, particularly in Glasgow.

Mr Smith said: "There are people coming in who get housing and benefits which local people don't get. They have to sit in sub-standard, damp housing while other people get things in five minutes."

Opposition parties were united in their condemnation of the BNP.

Nicola Sturgeon, the deputy leader of the SNP, said: "I'm sure Scots will ensure that any attempts by the BNP to gain an electoral foothold in Scotland will be firmly rejected."

Bill Aitken, for the Tories, said: "I am sure they will be just as successful as they were last time - when they disappeared without trace in Glasgow."

Tommy Sheridan, leader of Solidarity, said he would refuse to share a platform, debate or attend meetings with the BNP.

He said: "These people epitomise hate, intolerance and racial division. Violence follows them wherever they go. They would deny democracy to all others if they could and therefore deserve no democratic tolerance."

• THE British National Party has achieved little success in Scotland in the past.

In 1999, it stood in the European elections and got just 3,000 votes.

In 2003, at the Scottish Parliament elections, the BNP stood candidates on the list in Glasgow and received 2,344 votes - just 1.1 per cent of the vote.

In 2004, the party had its biggest success, getting 20,000 votes in the European elections, when the whole of the country was counted as one region, electing seven MEPs together.

At the 2005 general election, the BNP stood just two candidates in Scotland, in Glasgow North East and Glasgow Central, and got between 2.5 and 3 per cent of the ballot - 1,571 votes.

All these performances have been disappointing for the BNP in the context of the party's record across the UK.

Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 06 February 2007 10:43 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Far Right in the UK
 
1

Malky,

07/02/2007 00:22:56

"If we don't believe in freedom of speech for those we despise, then we don't believe in it at all."

Noam Chomsky.

"Any party which stands at least four candidates in every region is entitled to a party election broadcast. "

If they are the rules....what's the fuss. It's not like they could do a Tony Bliar and sell honours.

2

,

07/02/2007 00:24:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
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3

bill mccall,

sydney australia 07/02/2007 00:42:51

Isn't it nice and cosy when the socialists can say whatever they like about anyone else, and make the rest of us kow-tow to their socially progressive views that it's wrong to say what we think and feel, but they are perfectly prepared to deny the right to another party to project its policies publicly with the same financial assistance as the "established" parties.

I believe if more and more voted for the BNP we'd soon see these "traditional" parties change their tune about the freedoms they are denying us, and we'd be a better nation for it.

4

macdonaj,

Manitoba Canada 07/02/2007 00:48:47

Malky you said it all and you said it well. I totally agree with you.

5

,

07/02/2007 00:52:38
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6

iRoy,

07/02/2007 00:54:03

For the reported 32 candidates they have to put up a £500 deposit each.

That's £16,000 of their own money they will be risking.

(They also have to get the signatures of the local electorate to get on the ballot paper, which for some reason their supporters are sometimes a bit reticent to put their names and addresses down on publically displayed papers.)

7

petrol head,

Edinburgh 07/02/2007 01:02:32

At least they won't ban smoking!

8

Bill, Dunblane,

07/02/2007 01:05:20

Aye, I personaly despise their outpourings - but at least they do it from a position of principle, no matter how abhorent it may be, and ANYONE who fields candidates has a right to at least be heard.

New Labour, however, can abuse the Scottish electorate, and lie, deliberately lie, day after day, with complete immunity - and with the tacit support from this newspaper.

The Scottish electorate, despite what New Labour might think, is by and large, no' as daft as they think. As the history of voting shows - the BNP will get nowhere - Archie Stirling's gang will suffer the same fate.

There's only one way to vote in May.......

9

,

07/02/2007 01:11:02
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10

AJ,

Fife 07/02/2007 01:12:32

Archie Stirling, Bill ? Is that the aristocratic heidbanger? He's got nae chance!!

11

AJ,

Fife 07/02/2007 01:13:33

I bet he was guid at playin' commandos though!!

12

Conan,

Here 07/02/2007 01:16:15

If the UK's a democracy, let them speak and pay them what they're entitled to under the law. The voters will decide their future, if any.

13

Peter Cherbi,

Edinburgh 07/02/2007 01:23:04

#1. Malky

Absolutely agree, those are the rules, so why the fuss.

Anyway, 670k isn't much to grab a headline when millions have been flowing for peerages & contracts to Labour Party Donors which have looted even more out of the taxpayer.

How does 670k stack up against 500million and all the wee bits on the side at Holyrood ?

14

,

07/02/2007 01:30:50
Comment Removed By Administrator
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15

Robbie,

07/02/2007 01:34:45

Freedom of speech is often misused (insults and abuse) or misunderstood (trying to silence those with a differencing opinions, often with the claim that it is repugnant). The great advocate of ‘free speech’ was John Stuart Mill and in ‘On Liberty’ states, “…. free discourse is a necessary condition for intellectual and social progress. We can never be sure, that a silenced opinion does not contain some element of the truth. …[A]llowing people to air false opinions is productive for two reasons. First, individuals are more likely to abandon erroneous beliefs if they are engaged in an open exchange of ideas. Second, by forcing other individuals to re-examine and re-affirm their beliefs in the process of debate, these beliefs are kept from declining into mere dogma.”
We can only understand our own beliefs by examining the perhaps mistaken views of others and being able to demonstrate their errors.

16

,

07/02/2007 01:39:32
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17

Robbie,

07/02/2007 01:49:36

15. Pud, New York
Perhaps I shouldn’t even rise to a reply but it’s beddy-byes time in Fife and only heading towards 21:00 hours in NY. I have re-read AJ’s post and can’t really understand what you are on about Pud. Why bring in a Catholic vs. Protestant issue here. One thing I do like about NZ (it’s not Utopia and certainly like other nations has problems) is it has virtually cleansed itself of the sectarian hatred that was brought here in the late 19th and 20th century. To hate any one because of their religious or non-religious beliefs is really quite ludicrous.
“protestant history; catholic history; burning at the stake, by both sides, throwing people out of windows, (Defenestration of Prague in 1419), etc., etc., religious history of any sort would or should make any religious person ashamed. Let it remain firmly in the past. If you Pud hate anyone ask your God if it’s OK to do so.

18

Bill, Dunblane,

07/02/2007 01:58:58

11 - AJ

Indeed, I was at the debate in Stirling last night, and he came across as.... Well, it's difficult to describe - he was uninterested at times, superior at others, couldn't give a view on some issues, and surprised when he didn't get a round of applause. I don't think he actually realises what's involved.

It WAS an interesting evening tho' - the stars being John Curtiss, who came over very well, and surprisingly, Peter MacMahon from the Scotsman who was chairing the debate - very different from the official Scotsman line. (Sorry Peter - hope your job is still secure!)

Interistingly, no vote was taken - probably correctly, as the Stirling Consituency Labour Party was there in considerable force, as indeed were some OAP's bused in by the Tories. And a very strange couple who supported wir Erchie!

More comments to follow - apparently the story won't be in today's Scotsman, but will follow 'Shortly'.

Any queries answered honestly.

19

Robbie,

NZ 07/02/2007 02:01:39

Robina Qureshi, director of Positive Action for Housing, said: "
These are fascists masquerading as politicians and we will see them off. We will make sure they don't get a platform." This is weird, I don’t know what the BNP actually says or promotes as I live in a far flung corner of once mighty empire but my sense or democracy and belief of ‘freedom of speech’ makes me support their right and fear Robina Qureshi. Can’t some people understand that the more erroneous views are exposed the quicker the will be shown up as spurious and forgotten. This ‘make sure they don't get a platform.’ is totally horrendous and very worrying.

20

Expat artist,

Vietnam 07/02/2007 03:16:52

Tommy Sheridan: "They would deny democracy to all others if they could and therefore deserve no democratic tolerance."
Does he mean: because BNP would deny us access to the democratic process, if they could, we should deny BNP their right to the democratic process?
We're in real trouble if we start deciding who deserves democracy and who doesn't.
Intolerence of intolerance is not a solution.
BNP is a 'voice' exploiting a political situation - and a poor voice at that. Solve the situation and the voice will have nothing to say.
Now that's a real challenge for our more legitimate politicians, as the reason BNP exists at all is because you are apparently doing a lousy job.

21

John M.,

07/02/2007 03:56:12

The BNP truly are vermin and the idea they should get any form of state funding is deeply troubling but where is all the moral outrage when Sinn Fein are involved in the democratic process?

22

Guga,

Rockall 07/02/2007 04:11:25

I agree with Malky, #1.

I can't really see what the fuss is about; it's not as if they are actually going to get enough votes in Scotland to get someone elected.

23

The Daleks,

07/02/2007 04:32:56

The BNP are a legitimate poltical party, and they would not be in existence, nor have such a high profile, unless they had a considerable amount of support.

Clearly, their political standpoint strikes a chord with many voters, and these voters have a right to have their voices heard.

The only "vermin" and "scum" are those who would seek to stifle the debate on continued mass immigration into the UK from the Third World.

24

www.scottwebb.co.uk,

07/02/2007 04:37:06

Smoke and mirrors :)

25

steve077,

07/02/2007 05:15:48

They are a legitimate political party and as such have the right to use the system & be heard. If you do not agree with them (which I don't), don't vote for them. You don't ban some one just because you don't agree with them. We are suppose to have free speach.

26

www.scottwebb.co.uk,

07/02/2007 05:21:41

The Bilderberg group and the likes are behind the no borders deliberate destruction of manufacturing industry and lower wages right across the board.....not polish or others......follow the money and agenda trails and you will always find the culprits :)

27

Justin Time,

Saughton Jail 07/02/2007 05:24:28

"These people epitomise hate, intolerance and racial division."

"They would deny democracy to all others if they could and therefore deserve no democratic tolerance."

It took me several readings of Tommy's comments before I realised that he was not talking about the majority of contributors to the Scotsman's discussion boards. If they are anything to go by then there is a demand for BNP candidates here.

Who cares about the BNP? The Labour Party in the West of Scotland has been supporting racism and bigotry for many many decades. It is just more of the same as far as I can determine.

Thanks you and good night.

28

Pete39,

Tassy 07/02/2007 05:28:25

I tend to agree with #24, if the existing political parties had even spent the time to contemplate the result of their actions or listened to their electorate, this party would never have got off the ground. If it should ever happen that society does disentigrate due to the uncontrolled flow of emigrants and the BNP offers the only solution. It would be a shocking measure of the ability of UK political parties. A similar situation happened in Germany during the 1920s, you at least have hindsight.

29

Eric D,

South L.A. 07/02/2007 05:31:54

The BNP threatens the establishment , this is one reason why there's so much venom towards them. You could easily argue the case that a strong party of the right might rein in the excesses of the left (New Labour). There is no doubt the immigration has been unbridled , excessive and unnecessary , and that future generations are going to have to deal with some very serious and vexed problems. The real opposition (Tories) used to put forward the case against immigration , but the P.C. Army (CRE et al) have decided that its not on the agenda, so the BNP are filling that gap. If a person feels that the BNP represents their views better than New Labour or any other , then they should be free to make that choice unhindered after all we are supposed to live in a democracy and they are a perfectly legal political party.

30

Media 1,

cape town 07/02/2007 05:42:14

Freedom of Speech must be supported and protected at all costs. The BNP are a party who appear to be passionate about British values and time will tell how successful they are at channeling their energies in relation to their political agenda.

31

Royster,

07/02/2007 05:42:42

With first 'past the post', these guys would never get a look in.

32

,

07/02/2007 05:47:40
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Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 348582, Article id was mapped to record!
33

Leon,

Hong Kong 07/02/2007 05:49:17

History tells us that if we allow this racist filth to air their views then the result will be the irse of another facist dictatorship. But by all means let them stand. Then we will meet them on the street whenever and wherever they raise their racist heads.

Never forget - Never again.

34

Justin Time,

Saughton Jail 07/02/2007 05:54:20

#32. Dinnae start with that keech. First past the post is about disenfranchising the majority. How is that going to silence people who feel like there are too many "darkies, chinkies and wogs" in our country?

The way to eal with this problem is to disenfranchise the media so that newspaper publishers have to stop creating this artificial frenzy against immigrants. If we had a government that had enought backbone to stand up to the papers and an electorate that was smart enought to realise how they are being played by the media, then things would change. But alas.....

35

www.scottwebb.co.uk,

07/02/2007 05:58:40

Comment@34 Leon, hi mate.....this wee 7 minute vid shows you who's behind fascism :)
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=270683957116154...

36

www.scottwebb.co.uk,

07/02/2007 05:59:52

And heres part 2...which is 4 minutes :)
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=179345716715138...

37

Justin Time,

Saughton Jail 07/02/2007 06:02:15

#31 "...BNP are a party who appear to be passionate about British values..."

British values are about giving immigrants a good kicking then? If throwing people out your country because they do not "belong" there is a British value then what the hell are you doing in Cape Town?

I urge you to respect your British values and come back home where you belong. Hurry along now.

38

Media 1,

cape town 07/02/2007 06:08:33

#34 Leon: The BNP are a legal political party who will ultimately rule Britian. The reasons they will one day obtain such power is due to the fact people from other societies and cultures who reside in the UK show scant regard for Britain and her policies.

It is obvious that the people of Britain will one day rise up and demand that those who cannot respect the nation be evicted from the nation.

You DO NOT respect Freedom of Speech Leon. Your archaic views are the reason that this world suffers from such division.

39

Marco,

Liguria 07/02/2007 06:12:13

"The way to eal with this problem is to disenfranchise the media so that newspaper publishers have to stop creating this artificial frenzy against immigrants. " (#35)

Apart from the "eal" in above quote, I agree. It has always amazed me that whenever Labour is in power the public agenda has become one intended to split Labour's vote. eg SNP (1966) NF/BNP, sectarianism in west.

40

Media 1,

cape town 07/02/2007 06:19:23

#38 Justin Time: I respect the laws of this land. I do not arrange public gatherings aimed at creating dissent and uprising. I do not preach hatred and division. I do not live of the state and expect them to feed me. I do not demand that my traditions be respected at the expense of the local traditions. I work, keep my head down and respect the country in which I reside. I do not plan on planting a bomb on a local bus in order to destroy the fabric of life.

If certain parts of British society bahaved in an appropriate manner there would be no room for a BNP...But we all know that is not the case.

41

Justin Time,

Saughton Jail 07/02/2007 06:38:04

#41 Media 1. You seem to be using a different issue to support your comments about the BNP.

The fact is that the majority of [muslim] people who preach hatred at a mosque and also bomb their countrymen and women are in fact British. The terrorism issue is not about immigration. It is about how a very tiny section of British society has come to the point where they want to bomb and kill their own countrymen. No-one is suggesting that these kids started off in life hating fellow Britons and wanting to kill their compatriots. It came to them much later in their life.

I honestly fail to see how the British home-grown terrorism problem has got any real connection to the BNP?

I also do not believe that you are seriosly suggesting that the overwhelming majority of immigrants in this country are not law obiding people who just go about their own business - shopping, eating, working, sleeping - just like the rest of us. I have not seen one crime statistic that shows that immigrants are causing a problem in Scotland. I am not convinced by your argument.

42

Robbie,

NZ 07/02/2007 06:39:10

32. Royster “ With first 'past the post', these guys would never get a look in.”
Hi royster - you have brought this subject of very undemocratic FPP (First Past the Post) Vs PR (Proportional Representation) more democratic (better representation) up before.
I have notice your earlier remarks on FPP:
1 "FPP is not perfect but I find it the most democratic." (Royster)
FPP allows government by parties that the majority have voted against. Even to win against a party that polled more of the popular votes. Examples in UK, USA and in NZ before MMP (Mixed member Proportional).
2 FPP " has also served our country well by allowing it take decisive action when needed." (Royster)
Decisive action can also be described as ‘dictatorship of the Cabinet’. To remain in cabinet one must accept ’collective responsibility’ (members of the Cabinet must publicly support all governmental decisions made in Cabinet, even if they do not privately agree with them) and then parliament or the ‘elected‘ MPs also must normally just toe the party or the cabinet‘s (ie PM’s) line. FPP supporters clamber for ‘strong government which too often means decisions taken that the majority of the electorate oppose. Democratic???
3 ".. PR is that it leads to stagnation and endless coalitions." (Royster)
Coalitions give governments that represent the MAJORITY of the voters. It helps alleviate the ‘crap’ of adversarial politics where the opposition oppose everything by definition.
4 ".. I don't like the list system because people are not directly elected…(Royster)
Under FPP "the electoral seat representative of (usually only two parties ) is still elected by the party. Any true independent would not ‘win’ the party ticket as is as much as a party ‘hack’ as a list MP.
5 Statistics show many times in the past ‘strong’ governments elected under FPP where in fact ‘minority governments (as far a actu

43

The Daleks,

07/02/2007 06:42:24

Justin Time.

If you bothered to read my posting properly you would realise that I was talking in a UK context as opposed to a specifically Scottish one.

And let's be very clear about one thing.

Fearing for the future of one's country, one's culture, and one's own ethnic group, does not make one an evil or twisted bigot. It makes one a normal, rational human being.

It's those who care nothing for the future that we have to worry about!!

44

Robbie,

NZ 07/02/2007 06:47:25

Errata
Royster, You are in fact LIKE most FPP supporters not too keen on Democracy.
Sorry Royster - how are you?

45

Royster,

07/02/2007 06:54:44

#43. Robbie. List MPs are second class MPs. First past the post stops tinpot racists and fantasists like the BNP getting anywhere. It allows the overall will of the population to be translated into political power and has worked well in the UK when compared to other EU states. PR eventually gets corrupted by vested interests and endless compromise.

46

Justin Time,

Saughton Jail 07/02/2007 06:59:47

#44. Fair enough. But I do not accept the rationale of using a UK context when the story is about Scotland, the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish electorate.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being nationalistic and wanting to promote and protct all that is good about your country. But let's also be clear that this is not what the BNP, or the people who elect them down south, is about.

It is about irrational and groundless fear and loathing of a group of people who actually, by and large, go about their business in a quiet and peaceful way.

The only time an asian is drawn to my attention in this country is when some scumbag is shouting "paki bastard" - from a distance of course- at an asian woman and her kids in the street. I have seen that on at least 9 occasions in the last three years and I live is a supposedly "respectable" part of Edinburgh.

"Fearing for the future of one's country, one's culture, and one's own ethnic group" would be perfectly understandable if there was some credible evidence to suggest that it was under threat. It is not, and it never has been.

Looking at events of recent weeks we see that the Catholic Church in Scotland (which has a tiny, dwindling congregation) holds significant power. The muslim religion, whose attendances dwarf those of the Catholic Church, has no real say in Scottish public life and does not seek to have a say. Where is the credible evidence to show that immigrants from Europe, Africa, Aisa, Carribean have diluted your culture or ethinic group within Scotland.

Perhaps "globalisation" and the might of American business, television and other mediums is the real culprit when it comes to your culture and ethnicity disappearing.

Show me a party that wants to throw McDonald's and Starbucks out of Scotland and then you might get my vote.

47

Royster,

07/02/2007 07:01:57

#45. List MPs are second class MPs. FPP allows for the will of the electorate to be translated into political power whereas PR leads to compromise and stagnation - Belgium. From a governmental point of view, the UK has always been able to tackle big problems head on (poverty in the case of Labour after 1945 and too much union power in the case of the Conservatives in 1980s) because governments have had working majorities. Each MP is also accountable to his or her electorate.

48

Royster,

07/02/2007 07:03:47

I also despise the way the BNP hijacks the Union Jack. The whole party is made up of pathetic 1950s throwbacks.

49

Perkins,

Loch Lomond 07/02/2007 07:06:24

The BNP have as much right as anyone to getting these funds.
I note Tommy Sheridan would refuse to share a platform with the BNP candidate, but I'm guessing he would share a bed with any of the femail ones.

This is just the political correctness we have had foisted on us by polititians of all persuasions for the last ten years.
If you don't like it then do something about it, don't just sit there and whine away over your computers.

My gut feeling is that the BNP will get a good number of votes, purely because of the amounts of immigrants coming into Scotland. I think people are very uneasy about the numbers and this would be the chance to put in a protest vote.

As a postscript, the Scotsman should stop asking Bill Aitken for a comment, that man is a buffoon.
Or at least ask him for a comment when he's more sober !!.

50

Kennybhoy,

07/02/2007 07:27:37

#50. I agree. After all, much of the BNP agenda is what most of us really want anyway but are too afraid to say in public!

51

Robbie,

NZ 07/02/2007 07:30:50

46. Royster
“…List MPs are second class MPs.” Why? They are elected by the party people want to represent them in Parliament and prepared to vote for - you wish to disenfranchise a good proportion of the electorate.
Electorate MPs are also elected by the party and must toe the line or they’re out-ski next election.
“First past the post stops tinpot racists like the BNP getting anywhere.”
What you’re saying is that a party that can poll the minority of votes can govern dictatorially and supporters of parties that you MAY consider ‘fantasists’ are disenfranchised or voters must compromise and vote for a party that they don’t really want so as not to ‘waste their vote’. No system is perhaps ideal but if you have a look at which countries choose FPP such as Belize, Bhutan, Botswana, Cayman Islands, Democratic Republic of Congo, Dominica, Ethiopia, Gambia , Ghana, Grenada, Yemen, Zambia, Zimbabwe, compared to those that have a Party Lists or PR system I think the latter two systems win out on democratic values. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_voting_systems_by_n...
I don’t think, Royster, even although we disagree on most things have ever been rude to each other but when it comes to electoral systems, experts from all walk of lives have been commissioned to study the various choices and although different experts have their preferences none that I can see has ever chosen FPP.
First Past the Post is a bas memory of the past like the League of Empire Loyalists - non believers in true Democracy but in a class born to rule.

52

Justin Time,

Saughton Jail 07/02/2007 07:35:11

#50: "I think people are very uneasy about the numbers and this would be the chance to put in a protest vote."

What do you mean? Is this a reference to that fact that some three star hotels do not have enough Estonians working in the restuarant at breakfast times?

I agree. Quite often I have finished my toast before the poached eggs arrive. It is infuriating!!! We need more of these immigrants so that my eggs and toast can arrive at the same time. After all, they get minimum wage, two weeks holiday a year and as many hours to work as their boss allows them. Its time they showed some gratitude and brought my breakfast to the table in a professional way.

Can anyone tell me what the master race within Scotland actually is? Is it the picts, the irish, the norse, or what? I am trying to find out who has a right to be here and who does not.

53

Justin Time,

Saughton Jail 07/02/2007 07:37:05

#51: The BNP is what "most of us really want".

Can I take it that you write for the Daily Record then? If not, you should fire in your CV. They would surely have an opening for you.

54

jim lad,

the capital 07/02/2007 07:37:24

Good debate this morning,my only comment would be Tommy Sheridan doesn't say why he will not share a platform or debate with the BNP,yet expects everyone to listen to his rantings.Perhaps he should share a platform,punch the BNP tosser in the gub,and go back to his favourite second house where only his fellow companions have to listen to his ravings

55

morris,

edinburgh 07/02/2007 07:48:51

1
Absolutely correct Malky!
I detest the BNP but there can be no freedom if you refuse them equal rights to express their views.Its up to the electorate to preserve this freedom by soundly rejecting them at the polls.
If we go down the road of political tolerance we have no democracy.
These people only present a threat when they gain popular support,and they delude themselves and show their irrelevance to Scotland if they think they can win seats here.The Tories cant do it,no way can the BNP!
If anything this reminds us scots of another fundamental difference between the north asnd south United KIngdom.Northern England has elected BNP councillors.I cannot ever see this in Scotland under any circumstances.We simply do not have the same attitudes to incomers here and generally welcome them far more.This does not mean that we should be complacent.
I notice the Hootsmon calls the BNP the anti imigration party. Sounds better than racist of course but thats what they are !
Racism is best summarised by an attitude of superiority which has no basis,and the dislike of someone you have never even met,coupled to an annual flight to the Mediteranean in a crude attempt to look like him or her!If that is not the lowest life form on the planet I dont know what is.Personally I prefer the immigrants to low life such as this.

56

Pauline Hockett,

Burnley 07/02/2007 07:49:02

BNP gives voters a real choice.

No other party in the UK has had front pages of their publications opposing the offshoring of British jobs and reporting the detrimental affects of migrant workers on local economies and local workforces.

Here in Burnley the BNP have brought a breath of fresh air to local politics, bringing to the fore the issues that really matter to ordinary people.

I wish the BNP the best of luck in the Scottish Assembly Elections.

57

eric,

Lothian 07/02/2007 07:52:19

The BNP had its conference in Blackpool recently,They are very popular In East lancs etc,
But at the Last labour conference in Blackpool ,There was a few hundred Folk with St georges Flags Screeching For an English parliament.

58

IanW,

Germany 07/02/2007 07:52:48

I personally believe that the BNP will gain at least 3 seats at the next elections. I also believe that this will be good for Scottish politics.

Why you may ask, well it is not because I believe in their policies for sure. Rather I believe it will be good because the other mainstream parties may have to start to take notice of what the public wants.

They will have to listen more closely to our fears and concerns. As a result we may get some better thought out actions and decisions by the Executive. In this way Scotland may have a chance to recover from the multitude of problems which plague our society.

59

,

07/02/2007 07:54:19
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
60

Royster,

07/02/2007 07:55:50

#52. Jumping to conclusions again Robbie. My maxim is 'if it ain't bust, don't fix it'. FPP serves the UK well.

61

Justin Time,

Saughton Jail 07/02/2007 08:03:41

#59 Pauline. It is a Scottish Parliament, missus. Not an Assembly.

Why would someone who lives in Burnley wish the BNP all the best in the Scottish Parliament elections? Does Scotland have some connection, or even a solution, to the English racism problem?

As for the BNP "opposing the offshoring of British jobs" how many have they saved and what was their solution? "Offshoring" is something that even the Indians and Asia Pacific countries feel the impact of. It is a fact of life in a capitalist world. Presumably the BNP have some top class strategists that developed a workable solution. What was it? Do tell us please.

"Reporting the detrimental affects of migrant workers on local economies and local workforces" - come on then. Share it with us. What are these impacts? I am sure that they had their top notch economic research institute produce some incontrivertible evidence as opposed to some sad, fat old man just spewing out vile words of hatred.

Putting a suit on a tob does not stop him from being a yob you know.

When the riots start in Burnley, and your house gets burned down, remember that it was you and the lovely Nick Griffin that lit the fire.

You reap what you sow, lady.

62

Perkins,

Loch Lomond 07/02/2007 08:05:34

#54. You confused me with the toast and eggs discussion and Edinburgh hotels.
I work offshore, and these matters are discussed at length by the guys on the platform.
The overall gist of what they say is that they are uneasy about limitless numbers coming into Scotland.
That's all ... we don't discuss Estonian's poaching eggs.
I do think there will be a protest vote, and I do think the BNP will do better than the Conservative "spokesman" seems to think.

63

,

07/02/2007 08:08:48
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
64

Justin Time,

Saughton Jail 07/02/2007 08:10:52

#61 IanW. "multitude of problems which plague our society"

The problems in Scotland fall fair and squarely on the shoulders of Scottish people who consistently fail to take any form of responsibility for their own country.

As far as I can see, the only problem that plagues Scottish society is a bunch of small minded politicians who have no ambition or vision for Scotland. They are supported by a Scottish electorate who put more effort into silly forums like these than they do about organising themselves to effect real change.

For Scottish people, it is easier to look to blame others for Scotland's problems (roll out the English, Muslims and Asians) than it is to have a long hard look in the mirror and see the real problem.

65

bill-alba,

fife 07/02/2007 08:12:10

About 10 years ago I lived in London and my friends and I were approached by a BNP person in a pub...his comments were very anti Scot/Welsh/Irish as well as the usual racism..
any Scot that votes for an anti Scot BNP party is pretty stupid..

66

jim lad,

the capital 07/02/2007 08:18:18

Sorry Justin Time #64,Pauline has every right to express her opinion because that's what we are all doing after all,it's called democracy.We also interfere in English politics,but we call it the Livingstone Question. Pot calling the kettle?

67

Justin Time,

Saughton Jail 07/02/2007 08:20:09

#65 Perkins.

Where do these fellow workers come from?

England is over-populated and has a questionable need for more skilled immigrants. It also has a media that creates an unjustifiable frenzy about immigration. There are very few factual stories produced about immigrants and 99.9% of it is just a fascist newspaper editor trying to sell more papers.

Scotland is not over-populated and, indeed, needs skilled immigrants if it is to even stand still in terms of economic strength, never mind grow at the feable rate the Joke McConnell has managed to achieve.

If your workmates are living down south then it is hardly surprising that they feel that way as they are continually fed a lot of intolerant keech through their newspapers. And the south east of England is intolerant of all outsiders, including other Englishmen, never mind just immigrants.

I do not see any evidence of an immigration problem in Scotland or even the other parts of the United Kingdom. No-one has put up any credioble facts to show that immigration is causing a problem for the Scots. The next time your work mates express concern, ask them to be specific about the problems. I suspect that, just like we got from Pauline at post #59, you will find that it is just vague unsubstantiated statements that are offered.

68

IanW,

Germany 07/02/2007 08:21:18

Justin Time #67 - I fully agree that one of the problems is the politicions with no vision. That is why I believe that the BNP will improve things. These weak and thoughtless politicions will then be forced to listen to the public demands, and they are there at present but simply ignored, and thereafter react.

69

Citylocal Fife,

North of the bridge and right of(f) Jack McConnell 07/02/2007 08:23:12

I'm less than impressed with the BNP, and sincerely hope that every last one of them loses their deposit, but the blame lies firmly with 'Jack' and the lads.

It is yet another example of insufficient impact assessment. Jack and his cronies have yet again failed to carry out any form of due diligence in regard to legislation.

Quelle surprise!

70

morris,

edinburgh 07/02/2007 08:24:01

59
Thanfully you live in Burnley and have little say in what happens here,and it will soon be none at all.
One of the arguments used in Burnley was that immigrants were taking local jobs.
If the local emoloyers prefer to employ some guy just off the boat and with a limited knowledge of the language and culture over Burnley man, it does not say much for Burnley man!
The problems which exist in the Northern English towns are primarily because the North of England is governed by the South of England! Its the same Labour Party you have traditionally elected over many years,Its pretty impossible for it to be anybody elses fault other than your own!

71

paulr,

07/02/2007 08:24:32

While i do feel that lethal injection is probably the best way to deal with the bnp and its members they are only doing what every other political party does.
All political parties should have to pay for their own campaigns, let them raise funds from their supporters, and if they dont have supporters, too bad.
No more public funding of political campaigns.
I for one resent having to pay for a bunch of politicians to appear on tv and lie to me.

72

Borderman,

Borders 07/02/2007 08:25:35

#59 "No other party in the UK has had front pages of their publications opposing the offshoring of British jobs and reporting the detrimental affects of migrant workers on local economies and local workforces."

As the only practical alternative to offshoring jobs is allowing the immigration of cheap labour, I'm wondering what kind of economy they have in mind for us. A question you might want to ask them.

It was nice to see Malky's post at #1. It's good to be reminded that freedom of speech is for everyone.

73

eric,

Lothian 07/02/2007 08:26:21

Why wasnt that Muslim cleric Arrested last night for repeating on camera That British muslims Who join the army should be beheaded?But i cant listen to Christmas carols in my Gvt office.

74

Justin Time,

Saughton Jail 07/02/2007 08:28:41

#69 I did not say that she could not express her opinion on Scotland. I am more than happy to hear from anyone, including folk whose opinions I find to be obnoxious.

I just want to know why she would want to wish the BNP all the best in elections that will never have any bearing on her (unless she migrates to Scotland to escape from all the immigrants)? It is genuinely bizarre to me.

I dont regard Pauline's comments as "interference".

As for the issue about Scottish MPs in Westminster, it bores me to tears. The English were offered regional assemblies at the same time as Scotland and Wales were offered devolved government. The North East rejected the idea and none of the other regions showed any interest. They have not been short-changed in any way.

If the English want independence then they shojudl go for it. If you check the PMs website you will see that there is a petitions page. Something like 3000 people have signed a petition to get Tony Blair to juggle ice cream. Perhaps 300 have signed one asking for England to have its own Parliament without Scots. The issue is tiresome and I could not care less. There are far more pressing matters to deal with than Gordon Brown's next job.

75

,

07/02/2007 08:30:23
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76

morris,

edinburgh 07/02/2007 08:31:11

69
I think you mean the West Lothian Question which was raised by Tam Dalziel from the Linlithgow constituency which is next door to Livingston (please note the spelling) constituency.They do collectively however cover one district council area called West Lothian, and prior to gerrymandering of boundaries were previously the West Lothian constituency.

77

paulr,

07/02/2007 08:31:30

Religion and politics need to be strictly and completely segregated or at some point in the not too distant future we could descend into the kind of anarchy that we see in iraq and afghanistan.

78

Jimm,

07/02/2007 08:34:51

#67
No more need be said. Your assessment of the situation is spot on.

79

Robbie,

NZ 07/02/2007 08:36:16

63. Royster “…My maxim is 'if it ain't bust, don't fix it'. FPP serves the UK well.”
Robbie’s maxim is, “If it ain’t fair and it ain’t democracy - fix it.”

80

Justin Time,

Saughton Jail 07/02/2007 08:37:43

#78. Thank you, Pauline. I will red it later at home as I know that my work would discipline me if I clicked on that link here.

Thanks for going to the effort of finding the material.

81

Cadgers,

Perth 07/02/2007 08:39:22

#1 Spot on Malky.

82

jim lad,

the capital 07/02/2007 08:44:53

Morris#79,you are correct i sit corrected with enough egg on my face to make an omellete,i will also lay of the liquid so early in the morning and hope that my usual facalties inprove.

83

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 08:49:13

83 - good thinking - don't click on THAT link at work :)

There's the perception that the BNP is racist which is true to the extent that it exists to serve the interests of the native population but if that's racist then so must be the hundreds of other organisations that exist to serve particular ethnic groups such as the Black Information Link, or the Metropolitan Black Police Association. Since many of these receive public funding and are not vilified in the same way as the BNP, there seems to be a double standard here.

84

Alex.,

07/02/2007 08:56:31

Personally, I'm sick of left wingers and minority groups demonising anyone who does not share their views. It is nothing short of bullying. If the majority of voters do not agree with the BNP's policies they will be soundly beaten at elections. Or is the left wing frightened that the BNP might just achieve a result that shows not everyone is taken in by political correctness? Who was it who said that he did not share anothers view but would fight to defend his right to say it? Free speech is becoming a thing of the past in this country thanks to minority groups using political correctness to achieve their own aims to the cost of the majority. Doesn't sound too democratic to me.

85

The devil in the detail,

Easter Rd 07/02/2007 08:57:50

The big question is. ... If the BNP are getting that much, then how much are all the rest going to be given ... of our money???

86

SC,

Dundee 07/02/2007 08:58:11

While I totally disagree with the BNP's racism - or accused racism as they are careful to disguise it - but we can't just shut them up!

I totally disagree with socialists' class-war and anti-liberal views, but recognise their terrible ideas, like the BNP's, must be defeated by argument, not the law!

Bring it on! More debate, more action - not less!

87

Moray Stewart,

Edinburgh 07/02/2007 08:59:37

Like them or not, the BNP are a recognised political party and a useful safety valve for people's feelings. They allow the more mainstream parties to see the public's perceptions on the issues they are concerned with.

Chris Bartter's comments that "they used our taxes to send out material that was full of half-truths, mistruths and groundless assertions" could certainly apply to Labour and other political parties.

88

,

07/02/2007 09:06:17
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89

Perkins,

Loch Lomond 07/02/2007 09:08:52

#70

As I said before, this is a gut feeling about the way the vote may go for the BNP.

We don't have a huge amount of time to debate politics offshore, but when it is spoken about there is a feeling of unease on the amount of immigrants in Scotland.
I don't ask anyone to clarify their thoughts, and I'm not about to confront anyone on their views.
We are there to work, not to have a debating society.

I hear what you are saying, but come May there will be a good number of votes for the BNP.

That's my opinion.

90

Scaramouche,

07/02/2007 09:11:52

Like all sensible people, I despise the BNP and its own rationale for its continued existence. It is a blight on the political system and hopefully in the next election, people who vote will use their conscience when placing their "X" ......... and consign the BNP to the ranks of a "fringe group" again.

Yes, they have a right to say what they believe in. But we also have a right not to be harangued by people whose existence we find repulsive.

Speak against them at every opportunity, complain if they come 30 feet near your front door, call the ASBO team to deal with it.

And soon the message WILL trickle through that there is no place in modern Scotland for this vile party and its adherents.

91

morris,

edinburgh 07/02/2007 09:13:02

85
That does not infer that your observation was any less valid of course.Far from it!
Im pretty sure everybody was crystal clear on what you referrred to anyway,and you make the most pertinent of points,as does Justin Time,and whilst I cannot agree with Pauline in any shape or form,I fully accept that whilst Scotland remains in the United Kingdom,she has every right to express her views,just as we have the right to disagree with her.
This forum achieves nothing if we do not protect the right of the individual to both possess and express the most controversial of viewpoints (and lets face it,we have never lacked that!)So much so that USA Canada New Zealand and South Africa just to name a few cant wait to get stuck in.This is something we should encourage.Its even to be welcomed from Pauline (but she will be opposed in no small numbers of course).Malky said it all in posting no 1!
Fire away Pauline.There is no reason why you should not express your views(and who knows,we might learn something from you)
I seriously doubt that you will get a response which encourages you in Scotland however.
All the more reason why your voice should be heard in my eyes.Let the people decide.

92

Traveller,

Fife/Edinburgh 07/02/2007 09:15:01

If Gordon Brown is serious about becoming the next PM he should step in and prevent these bigots from getting one single penny of our money - perhaps the monies would be better spent on Researching MRSA / Bird Flu / Alzheimers / Child Poverty.

93

Edward,

07/02/2007 09:20:27

As was pointed out by an earlier poster her, BNP are a strobly anti-Scottish Party, they are agains anyone who is not English, white & Prodestant!
THey really shold be ignores as they are not relevant to Scotland, or to any other part of the UK

94

morris,

edinburgh 07/02/2007 09:24:32

90
I think you made the most telling observation yet!
If honesty was a pre requisite of a political manifesto,we would never see another leaflet again,and certainly not from New Labour!
Their whole existence in Scotland is a lie from start to finish.
Whilst I favour independence,I recognise that whats wrong with Scotland is our own doing,and it will never be sorted until we sort out our own priorities.
As ye sew so shall ye reap. Explains our bad harvests (and Burnleys too)!

95

wayne bijlyeerheid,

07/02/2007 09:25:53

#66
What right have you to identify the BNP with Glasgow Rangers?
You are abusing what is a democratic discussion to spew sectarian insults.
Well done slopehead.

96

Justin Time,

Saughton Jail 07/02/2007 09:26:50

#87 Alex: You can hardly call Christine May, or New labour, left wingers. They are further to the right than the Heath government and in some respect further right than the Thatcher and Major governments.

Having said that, Ms May's comments are pathetic and do indeed betray some self-righteous clap trap from New Labour. It is interesting that in this article, the quote from New Labour comes across as the most angry and self serving one. Not like them, is it?

97

Thistledhu,

fife 07/02/2007 09:27:36

I Agree with malky this is a democracy where everyone should have there say however disagreeable. re post# yes youre point raises a intresting question how much do the other mainstream partys get and as an aside £600, 00
thats about the equivilent of an MP and couple of councilers travel expenses going by the recent figures. let he who is perfect cast the first stone

98

Justy,

Edinburgh 07/02/2007 09:28:11

Of course people will be outraged. They were also outraged when learning that the race hate preacher, despite having considerable assets, was given legal aid (ie. taxpayers money) to fund his legal fight. Just as they were outraged when hearing that MPs were demanding considerable pay rises.
Get real.
Justy

99

Sanny,

Portugal 07/02/2007 09:28:51

IT'S CALLED DEMOCRACY:
The politically correct brigade, by opposing this action, show they are anti-democratic and anti-freedom.

Like most Brits it would be very difficult for me to vote for these people, nonetheless, it is my right in a free and democratic society.

The important point is WHY are the public turning to the BNP. In my opinion it is because they are disgusted by the PC attitude of the mainstream parties, the arrogance of the nanny state, the lies and the legislation against the honest citizen.

I would vote BNP to get the message across but fortunately, as a Scot, I have an alternative - I will vote SNP.

100

Encephalon,

07/02/2007 09:31:15

#21 "BNP is a 'voice' exploiting a political situation - and a poor voice at that. Solve the situation and the voice will have nothing to say.
Now that's a real challenge for our more legitimate politicians, as the reason BNP exists at all is because you are apparently doing a lousy job."

Well said. The mainstream parties have done SFA for decades and have encouraged the problem.


Enoch was right and we all know it!

101

morris,

edinburgh 07/02/2007 09:35:04

95
Whilst I share your abhorrence of the BNP,Im afraid that you would create a very dangerous precedent indeed.Who and what criteria decide what is permissable and what is not? Presumably every party would either disagree or accept the only possible common denominator of freedom of expression is the only standard we could employ in any democratic country,and of course oppose what we as a majority wish to not happen,in exactly the same way as we govern for the majority (well in theory anyway)which is why Blair and Brown will face the biggest thrashing recorded in British political history in England.Scotland needs to realise this BEFORE May ,not after it!
The perfect system of government does not exist,but in its absence the current one (aided by an informed electorate) at least achieves what we deserve,even if its not what we desired particularly!

102

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 09:37:48

96. Edward
You write that the BNP is anti-Scottish - how so? I couldn't find anything anti-Scottish on their website nor anything which mentions some kind of Protestant/Catholic preference.

103

jimmyd,

edinburgh 07/02/2007 09:38:22

take away the violence and the hatred and most people in BRITAIN will agree with BNP principles

104

James England,

07/02/2007 09:46:55

I would sooner trust the BNP than Blair's Labour Party and so would 85 per-cent of the voters.

105

Edward,

07/02/2007 09:48:50

#105 Believe me they are, Im talking first hand experience. Perhaps thats just how they are in England, maybe they change they change there spots when there trying to con people north of the border

106

KennyLad,

East End, Glasgow 07/02/2007 09:49:45

The story is a bit of a nonesense really. Political parties don't claim cash back from the Government. It is the Royal Mail and the TV companies that do, so no funding will actually go into the hands of the BNP.

Election rules are put in place for everybody. The BNP are just doing the same as everybody else does. The only difference is that the BNP are working within the democratic system and the likes of Christine May, Bill Aitken, Tommy Sheridan and the fascist Robina Qureshi want to end free speech and only allow those that agree with them to have a voice. The BNP will openly debate with anybody, that is after all part of the democratic system. What have the assorted Marxists and Fascists who attacked them got to fear from open public debate?

If the BNP were racist they'd quite rightly be outlawed. All the name calling just reinforces the fact that these people fear the BNP because they understand BNP policies have popular appeal and if they were allowed fair treatment and fair debate they would get more people elected and replace these scoundrels in the corridors of power. Oh yes and shut down PAIH which exists only to fleece money from the state - which it then uses to oppose the lawful state deportation of illegal immigrants - and allow the repugnant thug and windbag Qureshi to air her own intolerances of the British/Scottish way of life.

107

Chris, Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 09:49:48

#107 - where do you get your figure of 85% from?

108

S Hamilton,

Embra 07/02/2007 09:51:30

Wow, what a lot of commentary about a complete non story.

I'm outraged at the Labour Partys warmongering, corruption and contempt for the electorate, but I wouldn't suggest they lose the same rights that other political parties have.

Ditto the Greens and their extreme left wing rantings, the Socialists and their seventies lunacy, the Tories for not having a single original thought between them and the Liberals for being pointless.

If the BNP are playing the rules game, good luck to them.

109

Vigilant Watcher,

Bo'ness 07/02/2007 09:51:43

I agree with both Malky and AphaNEIL and, by the way JS Mill; if we purport to believe in Democracy then bring them on!

The ballot paper is the place to argue by not even marking them bottom of the list. If there are 5 candidates only use 4 votes leaving them out. You don't have to use all your choices only the ones you wish.

Also, you can switch the telly off but it would be better hearing what they have to say before deciding to leave them off the list.

As Tommy Sheridan put it their policies are dangerous and promote violence so rather than just tolerate their right to voice their opinions, every rational thinking individual should stand up and be counted.

Argue the opposite viewpoint at every opportunity that anyone voices support.

110

Bonnie Laddie,

07/02/2007 09:58:05

Agreed Noam Chomsky quote at 1

Why have a political system - if politics, however unsavoury some feel them to be are not free to put their policies forward.

All parties only ever receive a minority vote anyway - the majority goes to the non voters - who look upon most of this as loaded cr@p - but who listens to the majority - certainly not any political party I have witnessed within my lifetime !

111

Finnking,

Finland 07/02/2007 09:59:11

Freedom of speech, expression and views.

We may not agree with them but I think we should listen to them. When i found a kid in school spouting crazy racist rhetoric in the playground, I would give him (always a him) the chance to express his views in the classroom. In my experience the always sounded illogical to the other kids.

Also, if you don't want this party to be funded by state, where do you draw the line on what is acceptable and unacceptable?

With ingorant views, give the speaker a louder microphone. They will be drowed out by laughter.

112

Perkins,

Loch Lomond 07/02/2007 09:59:42

#95.

What are you talking about ???, give money to this that and the next ???

If that money was not used, it goes not to this weeks favorite charity, it would go back to the people who paid it in the first place .... the taxpayers.

The BNP are a political party, they get money to run their campaign just like any other political party.
If you think it's unfair that they get our money then have words with your political correct MSP.

I'm sure the Monster Raving Looney party get funds in England for their elections, so why not the BNP ??

The fact that giving these party's funds is a total waste of taxpayers money, is too bad ... you voted for it.

113

Procrastinator,

Edinburgh 07/02/2007 10:00:10

Re: 59.
Pauline - it's a Scottish Parliament, not Scottish Assembly. There is a difference.

Get back to your own country, you're not welcome here. You obviously know little about our culture so what right have you to be here? You probably don't even speak our language and next you'll be taking my job...yadda yadda.

Go back to Burnley where you belong!

114

Koffindodger,

07/02/2007 10:01:33

The BNP do actually serve a purpose, after all the really dense need representation in government to.

The great thing about the BNP is it gives almost everyone someone to look down on and feel better about themselves.

Perhaps they should change their name to the Jade Goody Party, not just for the obvious racism but also for the average IQ of bnp supporters.

115

Martyn Barber,

Blundellsands, Liverpool 07/02/2007 10:02:12

Although i deplore much of what the BNP stand for we live in a democracy. I would like to say we have free speech but the human rights act and political correctness have more or less seen the death of that. The worrying part is if the Government do not start to get serious control over our borders then the BNP will continue to make slow progress.WORRYING, VERY WORRYING.

116

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 10:06:41

108
Ok - I can imagine you ran into some BNP supporters which gave some kind of crude abuse. I'm pretty sure plenty of SNP supporters are anti-English in the same way. But that doesn't make the SNP policies or leadership or party overall anti-English. The only BNP people I've ever spoken to were in Scotland and were Scots.

117

Media 1,

cape town 07/02/2007 10:11:17

The BNP will grow in strength. Britain is almost ripe for a revolution and parties like the BNP are saying what people want to hear.

Off-course most people will deny that they like what the BNP are saying in order to hide the part of them that wishes they had the guts to express similar concerns.

People are tired of crime, why have a lesser sentence for good behaviour when the BNP are keen on a larger sentence for bad behaviour. People want discipline and neds of the streets, people are sick and tired of PC and nanny state interference. People are tired of listening to violent Muslim clerics preaching hatred on British streets, people are tired of the nonsense.

The BNP will grow, there is no doubt about it.

118

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 10:17:20

121. danielrober
I'm afraid this IS democracy. What would you rather have? You seem to be advocating Sturmabteilung style street thuggery. Perhaps facism is your preference.

119

Justin Time,

Saughton Jail 07/02/2007 10:18:00

#118 Martyn:

"The worrying part is if the Government do not start to get serious control over our borders..."

The United Kingdom already has some of the toughest entry requirements in the world. It is VERY difficult for people to come to this country.

The migrant workers that people now refer to are ones who have free right of movement within the EU, just as we Scots do.

I would put it to you that you are being sucked in by the unsubstantiated clap trap that the media throws our way every day.

Television news has gone the same way as the press, i.e. it is now little more than "light entertainment". Do not confuse sensationalism with respectable journalism.

Things are pretty good here in Scotland and when you walk down the streets of Edinburgh, Glasgow, Stirling, Dundee, Aberdeen and Inverness, you will find that we are NOT being over-run by immigrants. Far from it.

Why are people so scared of a multi-cultural secular society? Because it sells papers and advertising space!

120

Lock,

07/02/2007 10:18:29

Why not just ban the BNP like eveything else.

'Keep repeating we are free - free to do what you tell us'

121

Torchwood,

Aberdeen 07/02/2007 10:21:00

I'm sure no-one in their right mind is going to be fooled by the BNP.

Underneath the recently aquired "men in suits" lurks a very unsavoury bunch.

Just to given one example their leader Nick Griffin published a book admiring Hitler and denying the Holocaust.

This is another example being discussed at the moment that the rules on funding political parties should thoroughly be reviewed.

122

tommy,

belfast uk 07/02/2007 10:22:06

I would like openly to thank the conservatives and labour for making such a thing possible.without them the BNP would not exist.
I personally do not agree with everything they stand for-- but when I look forward to my childrens future (under conservative-labour-sharia) ....I dispair
prison toilets facing mecce
graveyards facing mecca
teachers sacked for saying most terrorists are muslim
hoodies in religious garb
cant have a bacon buttie in muslim presence
cant wear a cross
treason preached in mosques
the list of appeasements is endless

95 things that offend muslims
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/013525.php

BNP--bring it on

123

Chikderic,

Inverness 07/02/2007 10:27:17

The hypocrisy of Socialists, of all hues, is quite astounding. They say they will refuse to share palatforms etc. with members of the BNP and then demand that the Unionists in Northern Ireland can only form a government if they share power with terrorists, even though the Unionists parties could form a majority on their own!!! Why is it acceptable to allow the Socialist Workers Party, in its Respect disguise, and two extreme left wing Socialist parties, one at least led by perjurors, to stand at election but not the BNP?. If the BNP's claims about preferntial treatment by councils of so-called asylum seekers is false then prove it. The BNP's main policies are probably those of most democratic governments outside Western Europe.

124

Borderman,

Borders 07/02/2007 10:29:01

#116

Your xenophobic rant suggests you'd be right at home in the BNP. You've made yourself unwelcome in my living room. Pauline, despite her support for the BNP, has presented her views in reasonable tones. She's welcome here in my book.

As for the Assembly thing, I seem to remember voting for one back in the 70s. I like to think that vote was finally honoured some 30 years late. So to some of us, yes, it is an Assembly. But if you like to think it's a parliament, feel free to fantasise.

125

oder,

Scotland 07/02/2007 10:29:02

The BNP are the "result of the political correct brigade" remember"For ever action there is reaction"
there is in this country a growing concern that people who feel rightly or wrongly that the goverment does not listen or ignores their concerns on such things as immigration asylum etc. only yesterday a Polish worker was involved in a scuffle with a local man and it was described `Scots Racist Attack` this is the sort of thin that will give ammunation to the BNP
the best way to address this situation is for politicans
to resolve the concerns of the majority of the voters
on those issues, in other words goverment failure is partly to blame for the exsistence of BNP.
It would be undemocratic to prevent or restrict them from taken part in elections.
It will be interesting to see how well they do in Scotand, it might show just how racsit we Scots truely are.

126

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 10:31:28

124. Justin Time

You may be correct about borders but once someone's in to Britain illegally it's almost impossible to detect and eject them. In contrast, Germany and France do random ID checks on trains etc. I'm not saying that's necessarily good but it makes these countries less attractive for illegal immigrants.

You're right that Scotland is not being overrun by immigrants but the same could be said for England a couple of decades ago. Now there are areas where it's unsafe for the native population to venture and are on the brink of becoming a minority in some of their own cities. It's just a matter of time before Scotland goes the same way as England and the rest of Western Europe. There are already parts of Glasgow where you'll be abused or attacked for being white.

Other than selling papers, maybe there are other reasons why people are "scared of a multi-cultural secular society". Bosnia, Kosovo, London bombings, Theo Van Gogh and Bradford riots spring to mind.

127

KennyLad,

East End, Glasgow 07/02/2007 10:32:18

#106

The BNP abhorrs and condemns violence and campaigns against religious and racial hatred.

There is no hatred in putting local people first as Kenny Smith of the BNP seems to be saying in his quote. Would you not put your family before your neighbours? Whould you not put your community before one in the next town? It is natural to look after your own people first.

128

James,

Dundee 07/02/2007 10:33:28

#120
OK John!

129

Wullie Coyle,

LONDON 07/02/2007 10:34:31

Edward 17:-Define "scum" as you put it.
In your little socialist world does it mean anyone who disagrees with you.? I hope that this country still stands for freedom of speech . The saying goes :- " I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it " The new labour preachings say "Oh dont lisyen to the nasty things the bad man is saying but listen to uncle Tony and if your good there might be something in it for you. All I can say is "BOLLOCKS" to the lot of you.

130

Stevo25,

Edinburgh 07/02/2007 10:34:44

We are proud as a nation of our freedom of speech and as such we have to give platforms to all views whether we like them or not

I for one agree that the BNP should have as much right to put forward potential politicians as any other party. This is the whole point of living in a democracy if you do not agree with the views of the BNP then simply do not vote for them it doesnt have to be any harder than that

131

Andy Th,

Edinburgh 07/02/2007 10:36:56

Although I hate the BNP, the figures in the Scotsman article are misleading.

It quotes £594,000 as how much free postage the BNP will get, based on sending all the leaflets second class.

However, that is not a fair comparison. All political parties are offered one of the much cheaper Royal Mail services such as Mailsort or Door to Door. Although not an expert a quick look at the Royal Mail website shows that using their leaflet delivery service for sending 2.6 million leaflets would only cost £86,500 - a fraction of what the Scotsman says the BNP is getting!

It is important to know how our money is being spent, but the Scotsman is guilty of rapid hysteria by misrepresenting the facts.

The Scotsman says the BNP will be getting £670,000 worth of free publicity. Actually the figure is about £161,580 - a big difference (but still a lot)

132

Kilwillie,

07/02/2007 10:36:57

It's the usual patronising Guardianista guff. We're smart and have been to Oxbridge, so we can be exposed to the BNP and not come to any harm. You charming, "ordinary" people, on the other hand, might get over-excited and vote for them if Nick Griffin was to fix you with his funny eyes....
Representing 2-3% of the population and having views which are offensive to many (on Jews, the role of women etc) does not debar representatives of the Muslim Council of Britain getting on to Question Time - when's Griffin going to get on? Give the BNP enough rope to hang themselves.

133

GM,

07/02/2007 10:38:27

I'm surpirsed this comments thread got past Malky at post #1 -
It summed up the whole issue in a completely succinct fashion. I'm afraid that all the other partys' posturings on the story simply reinforce support for the BNP in some quarters.

The madness is that i dont see the BNP trying to stifle the other partys' freedom to express their policies so you have to ask yourself 'Who are the real fascists?'...

134

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 07/02/2007 10:39:38

So the PC and anti-racists are upset, well break my heart!!

They seem to think that they are the only groups whose opinions should be heard. No one should disagree with them and everybody should jump to obey any wacky laws they put in place and follow their views without question.

In a democratic society everyone has a right to be heard and to present a case at a political level. Obviously those of us who disagree with such views will not be voting for them (be that the BNP or the anti-racist brigade).

However, it can also be said that the PC/anti-racist brigade are anything but democratic and indeed to my way of thinking represent a branch of facism not far removed from some of the views of the BNP, are these moaners afraid of competition?

It is my view that there should be no private funding of political parties and their electoral activities. All parties presenting candidates in an election should be funded only from the public purse without fear or favour.

135

warthog373,

Scotland 07/02/2007 10:39:52

Noam Chomsky quote sounds good to me...but..

However, if you look at the "rules"...its pretty obvious that "free" speech doesnt exist here...you need to pay hard cash for 4 candidates to stand...

the sad fact is that the BNP could raise that quite quickly by rattling tins in pubs in Burnley and London...doubt if theyd manage to raise it in Scotland?

136

St pauli,

07/02/2007 10:40:00

Tommy – your from f@cking Belfast, are you honestly trying to tell me that most terrorist in your society are Muslim!??! ! and that people aren’t allowed to wear a cross???? What utter drivel you talk!

137

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 10:41:09

Torchwood, Aberdeen

I don't know about the details about the book you mention except that it was a long time ago. Young people tend to moderate their views as they get older.

Many of the current labour party leadership were Marxists, Trotskyists and even Stalinists in their younger days. Presumably few of them would try to defend communism now. Ex German foreign minister Joschka Fischer was once a street thug who attacked policemen.

Although we should never completely forget where people came from, the BNP and its leader have moved on from the National Front days of violence and neo Nazism.

138

Denis,

07/02/2007 10:43:01

# 124 Justin Time -

"It is VERY difficult for people to come to this country."

"The migrant workers that people now refer to are ones who have free right of movement within the EU, just as we Scots do."

So it's not VERY difficult for them to come to this country, is it then?

Incidentally, when we were asked whether we wanted to give 400 million other people across Europe the absolute right to come to this country?

139

TheGlaswegian,

Edinburgh 07/02/2007 10:43:05

#119 'I'm pretty sure plenty of SNP supporters are anti-English in the same way'
Being a nationalist has nothing to do with having a dislike for England or English people - it's about putting Scotland first.

Regarding the BNP: this is a democracy so why all the fuss? If people feel supportive enough to actually vote for them then fine. If enough people vote for them then it's only fair they are represented. Like the SSP, I doubt they'd get anywhere near enough to influence policy.

140

Miss H,

07/02/2007 10:44:46

I have always thought that these rules were wrong. The entitlement to get a PPB should be based on passing an electoral threshhold, not by the number of candidates a party stands. Is it not also likely that the loony Christian fringe will get a PPB if they stand enough candidates? Frankly this is getting into Big Brother style politics with crazy people masquerading as mainstream politicians. It is just plain stupid. The rules must be changed.

141

Borderman,

Borders 07/02/2007 10:45:28

#120

I enjoy your posts. Usually enjoyable, frequently muddled.

You're suggesting the BNP will free us from PC and nanny state interference. So they'll protect "British" jobs by sending home foeigners and protect us from unpleasant comments from Muslim clerics. (No doubt you want us not to suffer the sight of unkempt schoolkids, and will want them to enforce school ties pulled right up.)

Sounds to me like a nanny state for right-thinking, uptight, easily offended, white, British people. ("Did the naughty foreigner offer to work for less than you, diddums? Don't worry! We'll show him the bulldog spirit and send him home.")

142

warden99,

midlothian 07/02/2007 10:45:39

So bloody what , this party has been elected fair and square , the so called demecratic way.

if Labour , the conservatives and the week liberals acted for the people on matters which the people have been shouting about then we would not have the BNP with even on seat, but what did our arogent polititions do , correct ,,,,,they didnt listen , now its comming home to bite their ass.

Go on Nick and any other person out there who has had enough , kick these three parties into the stone age where they belong .

if i had my way i would be offering the party more cash , but we have seen the mess our parties are in for taking back hander to win an alection

143

Miss H,

07/02/2007 10:49:14

Media 1 - are you daft? Take a look at the electoral results they have got in Scotland. They are loonies. Do you really think it helps the democratic process to treat loonies the same way as you treat normal political parties?

144

AJ,

Fife 07/02/2007 10:49:58

Robbie@18

I was indeed, in ma beddybys - what did the eejit say that was offensive enough to be erased?

145

Miss H,

07/02/2007 10:50:13

147 You are talking garbage. The BNP have never been elected anywhere in Scotland. They are loonies.

146

Encephalon,

07/02/2007 10:51:02

#120 "The BNP will grow in strength. Britain is almost ripe for a revolution "


Had this same conversation three years ago with a "member" of the British Embassy staff of the country I was based in at that time. I was very interested to hear him make much the same remark. The powers that be know this and are terrified of the consequences.

Being abroad and visiting the UK periodically I believe we expats are more attuned to the subtle and not so subtle changes taking place.

147

Strict Ivan Jellicoe,

small potatoes 07/02/2007 10:51:59

£670,000 from public funds? Big deal! If they had been criminal black muslim anti-Christian homosexual illegal immigrant asylum seekers they would be getting about 10 times that.
How much did Abu Hamza get in legal aid?
How much does Finsbury Park Mosque get?

148

Miss H,

07/02/2007 10:52:38

143 you might want to check with the 1 in 10 UK citizens who live in other countries before removing the right of free movement.

149

Justin Time,

Saughton Jail 07/02/2007 10:52:48

#128 Chikderic.

You are not seriously referring to Tony Blair's government as "socialist" are you? It is Blair, through Peter Hain, and Bertie Ahern who are calling the shots in Northern Ireland.

In any event the comparison with Northern Ireland is more than a little futile. Comparing two governments trying to get theor people to stop killing each other, with the BNP in Britain is more than a little fanciful.

I do agree however that, even though they are more repulsive than the thought of Tommy at an adult nightclub in Manchester, the BNP is entitled to this money and should be allowed to have their broadcast.

As for your penultimate remark about asylum seekers and housing, what exactly is your point?

Are you saying that fascist racism is OK if a council tries to help someone in need?

Do you choose to ignore the fact that most "asylum seekers" are either held in camps or put back on the first available plane out of the UK?

Do you also choose to ignore that the only ones who can stay and get a house are those that the British government has determined are at serious risk in their own country?

Do you also choose to ignore that only people who come directly here are entitled to claim asylum in the UK. If they landed in another EU country then they must make the application in that country.

Again, I put the point to you that you might have been fooled by the sensationalist journalism that exists within this country. The reality if that Scotland does not have any noticeable problem with immigrants.

The BNP are the ones who have to substantiate their claims with hard credible facts. The reality is that they cannot and that they have to play upon people's inherent racism, assisted by the press.

So let them advertise on the TV, but they will never get my vote. I prefer to look with my own eyes, listen with my own ears, and see the facts as opposed to the fiction.

150

Maxie,

Clydebank 07/02/2007 10:53:48

I certainly dont agree with the BNP but they are entitled to put their views forward in a democracy providing they do so in a peaceful and democrat fashion.

Anyway, they'll probably split the unionist vote.

What the difference is between a British nationalist and a British unionist is a very cloudy issue.

151

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 10:55:56

144. TheGlaswegian
Wrt. the SNP "Being a nationalist has nothing to do with having a dislike for England or English people - it's about putting Scotland first."

I agree totally:) I didn't mean to imply that most SNP supporters are anti-English, just that a few are.

But consider changing just a few words in your statement.

"Being a nationalist has nothing to do with having a dislike for non British people - it's about putting Britain first."

And suddenly, I notice there's a remarkable similarity between the BNP and the SNP :)

152

Miss H,

07/02/2007 10:56:54

153 - are you advocating allowing Abu Hamza to stand for election and a publicly subsidised opportunity to broadcast his views to the nation?

That's a pretty crazy idea to me. But it could happen. What's to stop fundamentalist Muslims starting up a political party and standing sufficient candidates to get a PPB?

How would you feel about that?

It's a crazy idea. Please let's be sensible about this. Politics should be about serious politicians not the loony fringe.

153

Miss H,

07/02/2007 11:00:23

157 No there isn't. Read the BNP website.

The British National Party exists to secure a future for the indigenous peoples of these islands in the North Atlantic which have been our homeland for millennia. We use the term indigenous to describe the people whose ancestors were the earliest settlers here after the last great Ice Age and which have been complemented by the historic migrations from mainland Europe. The migrations of the Celts, Anglo-Saxons, Danes, Norse and closely related kindred peoples have been, over the past few thousands years, instrumental in defining the character of our family of nations.

So if you are not Celtic, Anglo Saxon or Norse you are not British.

There is no comparison with the SNP.

154

Chikderic,

Inverness 07/02/2007 11:03:13

To all those who want to ban the BNP and curtail free speech, who is next? Respect is a vehicle for Moslem extremism. backed by the that well-known bastion of democratic thought :- the Socialist Workers Party. The Greens want a totalitarian state with the majority of the population reduced to mediaeval peasants, whilst the leadership fly off all over the world to conferences. Whether the two extreme left-wing Socialist parties want the gulags of the Soviet Union or the killing fields of Cambodia I am not sure. The Labour, Tory and Liberal parties seem intent on replacing the indigeneous population with more subservient immigrants and the SNP will probably lead to Scotland being the new Moldova. Exaggerations? Perhaps, but any worse than those about the BNP. Once you start banning political parties, where do you stop?

155

Justin Time,

Saughton Jail 07/02/2007 11:04:08

143 - Denis.

Yes, it is very difficult for people who have no right to abode here to come to the UK.

It is slightly easier for those from Eastern Europe, though the British Government has reduced their rights to benefits and support whilst in the UK, i.e,. they have to be self sufficient to have the right to remain.

Again, I would ask you what harm free movement has done to Scotland or the Scottish people? Instead of foaming at the mouth because a Polish guy can now get a run down flat in Pilton, why not try to find out what harm it is doing to you, me, or anyone else in Scotland.

As for being asked about the right of free movement, why is it that no-one in this country complained for the 15 years or so that we were able to enjoy it before those pesky Poles got a free pass?

And as for free movement, if you bother to check your facts you will find that Eastern Europeans are losing out in Scotland because of it.

When they were not part of th EU, they came here to work (because we NEED them) and they had to be paid the same wage as a UK person would have got for the job. Otherwise the IND would not give a work permit to the employer.

Now that they are EU citizens, with a right to work here, the employer only has to give them minimum wage. They are being paid far less than they were before entry to the EU.

You do not read about that in the paper, do you? I wonder why that is????????????

156

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 11:07:23

159
That's a fair point - I said similarity, not equality. There's no doubt it's an ethnocentric organisation. Just like the Metropolitan Black Police Association (which exists to forward the interests of a particular ethnic group also). So why is one of them well respected and the other vilified?

The other question I have for SNP supporters is, what's the purpose of seeking to protect and support Scottish culture while at the same time encouraging immigration which in the space of a few decades could make Scottish culture as irrelevant in Scotland as Gaelic culture is now irrelevant in Inverness?

157

Alistair Stewart,

www.dont-vote-labour.co.uk 07/02/2007 11:08:06

Britain: Europe's burglary capital
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23384393-detai...

Whilst Labour preside over a MASSIVE rise in anti-soical behaviour in all it's forms then racist, extreme parties such as the BNP will pick up votes.

Labour are to blame for the BNP's successes and nobody else.

www.dont-vote-labour.co.uk

158

TheGlaswegian,

Edinburgh 07/02/2007 11:13:53

#Dougie - with all due respect, your analogy is p1sh. The BNP are negative against members of our society they regard as foreign or of foreign descent. The SNP are not.
It's a clever bit of spin by you none the less but it has irked me that as a Scotsman you would make such a statement. The BNP are something I personally abhor and to attempt to make a comparison with them and the SNP is scraping the bottom of the barrel.

159

Chikderic,

Inverness 07/02/2007 11:15:09

#155 I have seen on the web a document which claims to show that asylum seekers ( I will come to the 'so-called' later) being housed by a council are entitled to many benefits including a free television and licence therefor and all utility bills paid, so they can leave their heating on 24/7. If this is untrue then let the councils explain exactly what asylum seekers are entitled to.

I use the term 'so-called' because virtually no person seeking asylum in this country is entitled to it. If they have come through Europe, then by the Trearty of Dublin they should seek asylum in the first EU country they arrive in. If they avoid other EU countries, then presumably they have flown here. If they have flown from their home country then I seriously question they were persecuted there, if they could go and buy an international air ticket. In particular I question the motives of Moslems, from Moslem countries, who claim asylum here. Firstly because, as Moslems so often tell us, there is a universal Moslem solidarity so it is difficult to believe that any Moslem would persecute another. Secondly, there are 56 Moslem countries in the world, so why do they come to a country ruled by filthy unbelieving Kaffirs?

160

Lock,

07/02/2007 11:20:49

#158,

I would welcome a fundamentalist Islamic party. For a start we could then find out how many 'moderates' there actually are.

Where do you draw the line on 'serious politicians'? Get rid of the likes of Canavan and McDonald because they aren't affiliated? Apart from independence I haven't heard too much on how the SNP would actually run the country so should they be excluded too? At least the BNP gives a choice on an issue that (purely in my opinion because of years of media frenzy over nothing) the electorate care about. And surely democracy is all about choice (something which the self proclaimed greatest democracy on Earth has never had so be thankful).

161

Firozali A.Mulla MBA PhD,

Dar-Es-Salaam Tanzania 07/02/2007 11:21:33

BNP to get £670,000 from taxpayers to fund campaign
HAMISH MACDONELL SCOTTISH POLITICAL EDITOR (hmacdonell@scotsman.com)
Let us not fight about the religion. Let us talk of the region. The British National Party BNP gets money from the taxpayer. Why did the tax payer pay this sum? A good question. 2 If they had surplus why pay to the politicians who never refund a dime if you cry on the floor stating “Look I voted for you. What are you doing to me now”? No the case is closed. The money given never comes back. Kiss this god bye and be careful in future. Hamish you should be ashamed to give the sad new after the water has been spilt.
“TO GET, IS A PROMISE 670,000”. Will you back out from this? Try.

162

Media 1,

cape town 07/02/2007 11:21:51

The headline is good news for our democracy! The BNP are an important party and they should rightly receive the funds...

163

exiledscot,

France 07/02/2007 11:22:29

The BNP and its counterparts elsewhere (FN in France for example) ask the right questions but propose the wrong answers.
They will become a real threat the day they gain respectability and are considered a plausible alternative - this has been the recent strategy of Jean-Marie le Pen in France who is credited with 20% of the votes in the upcoming presidential election. He and his party have "softened" their approach which is attracting more and more "moderate" voters, but their xenophobic philosophy is only hibernating.

164

,

07/02/2007 11:24:17
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 349377, Article id was mapped to record!
165

Young Ken frae Newcastle,

Border Reivers HQ 07/02/2007 11:25:26

What a load of tripe over a non-story. Journalists like these should be made to join the magicians union - if they insist on pulling stories out of nothing.

Every legal and lawful registered party that contests these elections and fields the required number of candidates is entitled by law to the same treatment and a level playing field. This is democracy. Why should the BNP be any different?

The journalist only converted the BNP entitlement into monetary terms and implied they were the only party to receive it - to create a shock horror sensationalist story about your taxes - while hiding the truth and the larger picture of these forthcoming elections.

Frankly, I’m rather disappointed with your paper descending to the lower depths of the other Scottish gutter-press daily papers. I do hope that Scotland on Sunday can keep its integrity.

166

Justin Time,

Saughton Jail 07/02/2007 11:31:05

#165 Chikderic.

The overwhelming majority of people who arrive in the UK claiming asylum are sent back to where they came from. Contrary to what the press would have you believe, our immigration officials are very very tough in interpretting the rules, which are also very tough in themselves.

Those that might have a case are kept in camps until an appeal can be made. They then are more often than not deported.

You seem to have some sort of illusion that being an asylum seeker is glamorous in some way.

Your knowledge of the muslim world appears to be very limited. Check out web sources such as amnesty and you will see that they persecute people, en-masse, on an ongoing basis. Additionally, all of the different sects hate each other. Same goes for countries. The Saudis hate the Iranians, the Iranians hate the Iraqis and so on and so on. That is what the Americans and Israelis are playing with at the moment. They are currently busy manipulating the various groups to get them kicking the crap out of each other.

The reporting of events in the middle east by news groups such as the BBC, Sky, Murdoch publications is pretty poor. Ironically, you would be much better turning to American media for something closer to the truth. The Washington Post is quite a good way of finding out what is really happening out there.

Contrary to what we are told by the Editor of the Sun and Daily Mail, not all arabs hate "filthy, unbelieving, kaffirs" as you put it. We are quitre liked out that part of the world - or at least we were until Tony Blair bent over and took one up the backside from George Bush.

I do not mean to be cheeky or arrogant, but you really should read up more on the middle eastern countries and teir views on Christians. It is not as bad as we get told.

One of the themes of my posting here today is that we are let down by poor quality, sensationalist journalism. If the masses are to be protected

167

Juicy Lucy,

Yorkshire 07/02/2007 11:31:31

We already have racist policies in the UK. 'Race Relations Act, 1976, S 37, Amendment 2000' clearly states that 'white people' are excluded from applying for jobs.

This racist law contradicts New Labour, because I thought New Labour were champions of equal opportunities, but it seems they are not.

If the BNP stand in elections, then they have a legal obligation to do so. We live in a democracy, let the people decide at the ballot box. That's fair!

168

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 11:31:58

166 TheGlaswegian
Like I said above, I'm not saying the BNP are the same as the SNP, just that there's an important similarity. Correct me if I'm wrong but the SNP exists because its members care about Scottish culture and the future of Scotland and don't want Scotland to be swallowed up by the rest of Britain. Although it's easy to be nice to foreigners if the number of foreigners are small as they are in Scotland, at the end of the day, the SNP are about protecting the Scottishness of Scotland.

I suspect that's very similar to the motivation of BNP supporters. Whereas SNP supporters see the biggest threat to their Scottish heritage being control from London, BNP supporters see the biggest threat to their heritage being immigration and the Muslim community with its confrontational attitude to the natives and its high birth rate.

Because of these different circumstances and the low number of foreigners in Scotland (relative to England), SNP supporters have the luxury of being "inclusive" while the BNP does not. My point is that both are essentially motivated by patriotism and patriotism is preference for ones own.

169

Media 1,

cape town 07/02/2007 11:32:36

#172 Michael Rigby: Your comments stem from your obvious passion for one party state dictatorial regimes. Democracy is alive and well in the UK and you need to start respecting that.

Some people are becomming disallusioned with life in Britain and the BNP appear to be saying the right things, hence why they are becomming stronger by the day.

Your deep rooted hatred for anything opposed to your views is not healthy Michael..Cmon wee man, you have it in you to change. do it

170

,

07/02/2007 11:33:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
171

Denis,

07/02/2007 11:35:22

# 162 Justin Time - I can assure you that I'm not foaming at the mouth, or anywhere else. The reason why we could go for 31 years (1973 - 2004) without being too concerned about the principle of freedom of movement within the EEC/EC/EU is quite simple - because it didn't produce any great influx until the Eastern European countries joined. As I recall the biggest previous influx was from Portugal, but even that was much smaller. And note that two other countries joined the EU in May 2004, but being small and relatively prosperous they have had little effect on immigration into this country. It's the Eastern European countries which were held back under communism which have a low standard of living, and therefore a strong economic driving force for emigration, and in total large numbers available for emigration. The government were repeatedly warned about this beforehand, but chose to pretend that the numbers would be very low. If they had been, the effects would have been minimal and there would have been no problems.

172

Me Bungo Pony,

Angus 07/02/2007 11:39:50

I cannot believe the support the BNP seems to be getting on this thread. They are NAZIs pure and simple. Just look at the quote from their website in #159. Plus, replace Jews (though the BNP still hate them too) with Asians and they are practically identical. The NAZIs hated Eastern Europeans as well, so no clear (or true) blue water there. Their policies beyond blaming immigrants for all the UK's woes are non-existent. Who are they going to blame once they have "solved" that problem? Could it be, as one fascist put it;
First get rid of the problem - Immigrants.
Then their supporters - The Left.
Then their sympathisers - The Liberals.
Then the weak - The Centre Right.
What a bright "new" future the BNP would instigate :(

Anyone who thinks the BNP stand for "traditional British values" needs to make a reality check. Britain fought a long and bloody war against the values of the BNP. How ironic that people now believe the values of the NAZI party are the future.

Having said that, I see nothing wrong in them accessing these funds. All other groups have equal access to them if they put up enough candidates. Whether the BNP should be a legal organisation is another story. They are violent, racist, venomous thugs and it is only a matter of time before they do something that will finally sicken even those who seem to see them as fluffy bunnies in Union Jack waistcoats.

173

BALLYMOSS,

HARTLEPOOL 07/02/2007 11:39:52

Given the lying deceit of the present bunch of "sOCIALISTS" very small s.Combined with the opposition who would mouth any catchy slogan with the
aim of gaining power.The immigration situation,lawlessness,Prisons that don't know who's in them [or out of them]??.Could the B.N.P.be any worse?
Somehow i doubt it.The two main parties have gone way too far in special interest groups [THEMSELVES].In
97 i proudly voted for B,liar only to see it all turn to lies
and dust at the altar of G.W.BUSH.Never again it's B.N.P. for me from now on.As if to make things even worse there is the coming war with Iran,B,liar will again stand shoulder to boot to lick,so get ready.

174

Maxie,

07/02/2007 11:40:38

Venus~173

I think Miss H was opposing the BNP not supporting it. She was quoting in response to someone else's previous comment. That's why she was using quotation marks.

175

Justin Time,

Saughton Jail 07/02/2007 11:42:19

The BBC was SUPPOSED to be the organisation that gave us good quality, accurate news content. That was the pitch that they made for their last charter renewal. Sadly they almost immediately went down the road of "light entertainment". Just check out Breakfast News and BBC News 24. Very sad to see.

Perhaps the reason for this is that the government, or should I say the Labour Party, hound news editors to death if they present anything in a bad light.

With Freedom of Information, you can see the letters that the government fires of to the BBC everytime they run a feature that involved giving a Minister a hard time.

When it comes to Iraq and Iran, we are being fed government propaganda that even the Americans are not getting. Why are we painting Iran in such a bad light just now. The BBC is just churning out government propoganda which is light years away from the actual truth. We all know why that is. What we do not know is why BBC Editors want to be puppets of the government war machine.

Same thing happens with the issues around the BNP. They thrive on the untruths that we get told day in day out by the media.

176

Denis,

07/02/2007 11:48:32

# 154 Miss H - "143 you might want to check with the 1 in 10 UK citizens who live in other countries before removing the right of free movement." Which other countries do you mean? It's the norm for countries around the world to assert their rights to control movement across their borders and to decide their immigration policies. That doesn't mean that they don't allow any movement, or that they refuse to allow any foreigners to live and work within their territories, and maybe become naturalised citizens. The abnormal situation is when a country relinquishes those rights.

177

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 11:49:35

Me Bungo Pony, Angus

I suspect you're confusing the BNP of today with the NF of twenty years ago. The BNP now have at least one Jewish councillor.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how the BNP's ethnocentrism is any worse than that of the many respected, publicly funded organisations which exist to promote the interests of other ethnic groups such as

http://www.metbpa.com/

I quote:

"Membership to the Association is available to all black staff employed by the Metropolitan Police Service."

178

St pauli,

07/02/2007 11:50:40

#178 Media1 you are clearly deluded if you think the BNP are ‘becoming stronger by the day’ and that the UK is ripe for revolution.

Sitting in Cape Town reading the Hootsman, your finger is hardly on the pulse of the wide-ranging, and often contradictory, changes in British social attitudes, is it????

179

johnj,

edinburgh 07/02/2007 11:50:43

What is the problem about the BNP standing or taking what is available in the rules?
Or are the other so called bigger partys running scared. The BNP are just saying what the majority of people are thinking.Its about time the priority became Scots/Brits in there homeland being 1st in the queue not last. As for sheridan started of as a man for the people and is now trying to be a A list celebrity.

180

Porky,

England 07/02/2007 11:51:18

#117 Koffindodger
"after all the really dense need representation in government to."
Sounds like a definition of the labour party to me. By the way my IQ is 153 (tested and proven) - what's yours

#121 Danielrober - Good to hear reasoned arguments from an obvious 1930's marxist - to the barricades bruvvers, smash the fascist scum, eh?
#165 University ?- was it there they tought you to spell NAZI a different way every time you post. Anti fascist leaguers without a chip - do me a favour. The three of them (or has the membership increased) could run a fish & chip shop on the contents of their shoulders

181

phemie,

aberdeen 07/02/2007 11:52:56

Want to get rid of the BNP ? Then get rid of the Commission for so called Racial Equality, all those who climb on the 'race and pc bandwagon', Robina Quesheri of 'Positive Action on Housing', who is really a political agitator for ethnic minorities funded by the Scottish Executive.
Put fair and firm immigration controls in place, let people see that failed asylum seekers are removed promptly, and the BNP would disppear.
Where were the PC crowd when Kriss Donald was murdered by the Asian gang?. Not a cheep from the lot of them.
All this furfore about racism is designed to supress legitimate concerns about the uncontrolled levels of immigration

182

Me Bungo Pony,

Angus 07/02/2007 11:54:52

#52 Robbie, NZ !!!
You asked if my assertion that nearly 25% of the poor in the EU lived in the UK was verifiable on another thread. Unfortunately they closed it before I could reply :(

Try this link;
http://www.sozialarbeit.de/europa/newslett/Dez98/E2.htm

It shows that at the end of Thatcher's reign of terror (maybe a bit over the top but I really disliked the woman) between 22-23% of all those below the poverty line in the EU were in the UK. You'll need to get your calculator and atlas out to do all the maths, but if you do, it will prove my point. By the way, before Thatcher, only about 10% of the UK population lived below the poverty line.

183

TheGlaswegian,

Edinburgh 07/02/2007 11:55:40

Dougie #177, the SNP exist to offer hope of a better standard of living for us and our future generations. It has nothing to do with preserving a Scottish culture and it is not a party for those only of Scots descent. Cultures evolve over time and the culture of the modern Scotland has changed over that of 300 years ago.

For me the SNP is a far more appealing alternative to what we have at the moment - climbing taxation (albeit indirectly), climbing interest rates, loss of our manufacturing industry, our seas being stripped of fish, our natural energy resources being plundered, plans to privatise then sell our water to the highest bidder, a growing ned culture, huge numbers of long term benefit scroungers, prisons bursting at the seams, brown plundering our pension funds to pay for illegal wars, plans to finance a new generation of WMD.

We could do better with our resources that blow them on weapons and wars. Like Norway, we could invest revenues from our natural resources in a trust fund for the future wellbeing of the nation.

For me the SNP is hope. Staying with the current set up prolongs apathy.

184

Procrastinator,

Edinburgh 07/02/2007 12:02:05

Re: 59.
Pauline - it's a Scottish Parliament, not Scottish Assembly. There is a difference.

Get back to your own country, you're not welcome here. You obviously know little about our culture so what right have you to be here? You probably don't even speak our language and next you'll be taking my job...yadda yadda.

Go back to Burnley where you belong!

185

Cynic,

Dalkeith. 07/02/2007 12:03:10

Stop all the bleating. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. When 'respectable politicians' fail the electorate, as if that hasn't been happening for many years now, by being blatantly corrupt, mendacious, incompetent, and more simply, self-aggrandizing, the conditions are ripe for the BNP to get a very good foothold in Scotland. From the many scathing comments levelled at the SE on all fronts, this election is going to be an eye-opener. The politicians who have declared their disdain and contempt for the BNP in this article have lost touch with grass roots feelings and the Scottish psyche and I believe they will in for a stinging shock. Remember, bad politicians and poor policies on crime, health, immigration, play into the hands of the BNP. Be warned. If the party fields it's candidates as proposed .... well, wait as see. I told you so.

186

Miss H,

07/02/2007 12:03:21

173 I suggest you actually read posts before replying to them. It would be helpful.

187

Young Ken frae Newcastle,

Border Reivers HQ 07/02/2007 12:03:28

#Me Bungo Pony

The BNP will continue to get support and increase their vote as long as morons like you reiterate lies, half-truths and general smears taken directly from extreme communist and left-wing sponsored organisations.

So, to put it into perspective you are calling George Johnson (from the linked article) a BNP member and D-Day veteran a Nazi? Who will believe you after reading the link? NO one.

http://www.bnp.org.uk/reg_showarticle.php?contentID=1591

Get real, get a job and get a life!

188

Me Bungo Pony,

Angus 07/02/2007 12:03:49

#185 Dougie - Edinburgh
"I suspect you're confusing the BNP of today with the NF of twenty years ago. The BNP now have at least one Jewish councillor."

No I'm not. I've seen film of BNP meetings and seen some of the literature that doesn't get mainstream distibution. They ARE NAZIs! No doubt about it. Coincidently, the early NAZI party had a Jew among their High Heejins as well. Didn't stop the holocaust.

189

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 12:05:07

Me Bungo Pony, Angus
I hope this isn't too off topic but the link you posted above is misleading by defining poverty as being a measured relative to median income. Effectively, it's equating poverty and inequality. Whether you believe inequality is fair or not depends on the extend to which you think it's fair to take from those who create wealth and give to those who don't. But at least be honest and say you're describing inequality rather than poverty which suggests deprivation. By the definition above, someone living in poverty in Monaco could be living quite comfortably indeed.

190

David Park,

Ayrshire 07/02/2007 12:05:50

173. Venus.
You should really read posts properly before castigating the posters.
I think you'll find that Miss H. was quoting from the BNP website. She did so to make clear that the BNP believes in an ethnic nationalism which is abhorrent to the SNP.

191

Venus,

Edinburgh 07/02/2007 12:06:51

182. Maxie

There are no quotation marks that i can see on my screen. Apolgies if she is against the Nazi bast*rds! V.

192

Miss H,

07/02/2007 12:08:16

168 the SNP is the second biggest party in Scotland with representation in the Scottish Parliament, Westminster, the European Parliament and 200 odd councillors. It is currently ahead in the polls for the next election.

The BNP on the other hand has never had a single candidate elected to anything, ever, in Scotland.

To me that means thay are not a serious political party. Why should they be funded as though they were? That's a recipe for every loony with an axe to grind that wants their 5 minutes worth of fame. People like that should go on Big Brother, not stand for election. It makes a mockery of the whole process.

193

Me Bungo Pony,

Angus 07/02/2007 12:08:23

#195 Young Ken frae Newcastle, Border Reivers HQ
"Get real, get a job and get a life!"

Got the lot already. And I'd like to keep them. Not something that would be guarenteed under a BNP govt :(

194

Justin Time,

Saughton Jail 07/02/2007 12:08:54

#179 Denis. My last post today.

We have not had free movement since the 70s. It is a relatively recent feature of the EU.

Again, I would ask where the evidence is of massive amounts of Eastern Europeans invading Scotland and this then having a negative impact upon Scots or the Scottish economy.

We NEED these people, if Scotland is to prosper. It is a fact that Scotland is short of labour and will decline without an decent influx of immigrants

195

Tweedmouth,

Borders 07/02/2007 12:09:00

Working class whites are supporting the BNP in the big cities simply because the mainstream political parties do not offer ANY alternative policies. People in London, Leeds, Birmingham, Leicester, Bradford etc have seen their cities transformed in less than 2 generations from predominantly white, working class and 'christian' areas into multicultural ghettos dominated by vast numbers of Paksitanis, Indians, Afro Caribbeans, and increasingly Somalis, Albanians, Armenians - it just goes on and on.
This is a FANTASTIC rate of social change that has never been seen before in the UK. Large areas of our major cities are now in effect 'another country', especially in Muslim areas where Islamic dress, language and shops dominate. This has all happened despite the fact that the vast majority of British voters have opposed further mass immigration since the 1960s.

That is why the BNP is growing; if we had sensible immigration policies and if we had control of our own borders, rather than Brussels, people would vote for reasonable parties. People value social cohesion, their own communities, their own values, their own culture - because they feel safe with their own kind.
Somalis form Somali ghettos; Pakistani's form Paksitani ghettos. Theya re never going to integrate because the cultures are separated by thousands of years of different geography, culture, religion, marriage customs, attitudes to women, and values.

Yesterday Newsnight reported that the King Fahad school in London was using textbooks which described Jews as monkeys and Christians as pigs. The headteacher did not deny this and refused - despite intense questioning from Paxman - to consider withdrawing these books from the classroom.

These alien cultures will take CENTURIES to integrate into the UK. Just look at the absolute hatred between descendants of Irish catholic immigrants in Glasgow to and the protestant Scots.
It's been going on since 1840!

People feel most s

196

Denis,

07/02/2007 12:09:17

"... a trust fund for the future wellbeing of the nation." What is a "nation"?

197

Sedov,

Scotland 07/02/2007 12:09:44

The only way we can beat the facists is through understanding that the world is diverse and a country does not belong solely to the people born there but open to everone regardless of creed, race etc. Racism, not people from other countries is breeding fascism. As Pastor Mellor implied, ... first they come for the them but you dont worry then eventually they will come for you,( as they did in Germany.) Internationalism is the only way to defeat the BNP. Patriosm and nationalism only encourages the BNP which is one of the reasons they are moving in to Scotland

198

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 12:10:52

191. TheGlaswegian
Since you're a SNP supporter, I can understand that you want to make the case that your party has good economic policies but as an ex SNP member myself, I'm quite sure that most members joined the party out of the patriotic conviction that the SNP stood for Scotland. Many (most?) of them didn't have a clue about economics and didn't especially care. Economics is important - but it's not the main reason the SNP exist or are so popular.

199

Tony B,

07/02/2007 12:11:47

Justin Time #67 -

'...They are supported by a Scottish electorate who put more effort into silly forums like these than they do about organising themselves to effect real change...'

Are you aware you've put in the effort to make 18 comments (to date) on this 'silly forum'?

200

Neil,

9% Growth Party 07/02/2007 12:14:02

"Christine May, for Labour, said she was outraged that the BNP was using the system just to get itself a party election broadcast"

OK for Labour to set up & use the same system. Democracy requires equal freedom for everybody.

The BNP opposed both Labour's illegal wars. Unlike Labour they cannot be accused of helping Nazis openly committed to genocide engage in such genocide, ethnic cleansing & child sex slavery. No loyal Labourite or Tory or Lib Dem is in a position to criticise the BNP.

201

ROXY ROOLS,

07/02/2007 12:14:13

Let them have the funding...just as good a cause as half of the daft schemes given grants. At the end of the day , they are only shouting about what many people think.
last night on tv one of the many delightful 'immigrants' in this country stood and advocated death to British people who didnt share his views, yet we are not supposed to be able to voice our opinions. This country has gone mad with it's softly softly approach...if they don't want to live our way.....GET OOT !!!

202

Lord Fairmilehead,

Edinburgh 07/02/2007 12:15:42

According to the rules, and also according to the mores of a freedom of speech endorsing democracy, the BNP have a right to these broadcasts - end of story.

As to why they have a degree of support which some people find uncomfortable, perhaps we should ask what is in their appeal that cause people to support them, rather than using emotive terms like 'Nazi' to describe their supporters.

203

Me Bungo Pony,

Angus 07/02/2007 12:16:09

#197 Dougie - Edinburgh

I understand what you are saying and it is off topic :)

The first table gives the %ages using the EU average earnings, so it is the same for each country. The second table gives the %ages using each countries particular median earnings. So 23% of UK citizens were living below the EU poverty line but only 14% were below half UK median earnings. Either way it wasn't a ringing endorsement of the Thatcherite model of ending poverty through privatisation, deregulation free trade.

I feel you wont agree :) But perhaps it is a subject for another thread :)

204

Miss H,

07/02/2007 12:16:25

203 Tweedmouth everything you believe comes from the telly doesn't it? Come on guy you live in the Borders. There are no black people there. There are only 72 surnames in the Borders. We all know that. So what are you agitating about?

205

Miss H,

07/02/2007 12:19:40

212 - their level of support is below 3 per cent. If Muffin the Mule stood he could get that level of support as well. Why don't you start the Lord in my own mind party? I think you would find that you might attract some of the people who would vote BNP. Let the loonies fight it out for the loony vote and let the serious parties get on with it.

206

Denis,

07/02/2007 12:19:52

Wrong, Justin Time. It was in the original 1957 Treaty of Rome:

ARTICLE 48

1. Freedom of movement for workers shall be secured within the Community by the end of the transitional period at the latest.

2. Such freedom of movement shall entail the abolition of any discrimination based on nationality between workers of the Member States as regards employment, remuneration and other conditions of work and employment.

3. It shall entail the right, subject to limitations justified on grounds of public policy, public security or public health:

(a) to accept offers of employment actually made;

(b) to move freely within the territory of Member States for this purpose;

(c) to stay in a Member State for the purpose of employment in accordance with the provisions governing the employment of nationals of that State laid down by law, regulation or administrative action;

(d) to remain in the territory of a Member State after having been employed in that State, subject to conditions which shall be embodied in implementing regulations to be drawn up by the Commission.

4. The provisions of this Article shall not apply to employment in the public service.

207

raith,

fife 07/02/2007 12:26:04

The hysterical outburst from the existing political parties supported by the media because BNP is contesting the Scottish Elections is indicitive of the attempt to dumbdown the debate on uncontrolled immigration and so called multiculturism. which is of major concern to most people as independent surveys continue to show.
The BNP is a legal party and in a so called democratic country is entitled to a fair hearing, let the voters decide!.

208

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 12:27:08

Miss H, 215
The SNP's level of support in Britain overall is probably somewhere in the region of 3% also (ballpark). I hope you're not suggesting the SNP is not a serious party. In certain areas of England (interestingly the most "multi-cultural" parts), the BNP is the official opposition so although it may poll low in the UK overall, I doubt it would be attracting the attention it is if it were as irrelevant as you suggest.

Incidentally, 3% in the UK overall is still a lot of votes for a party which until now has had very little chance to explain its policies in the mainstream media.

209

Murray1,

07/02/2007 12:28:48

If this party is for a strong union which protects the rights of all citizens I will consider voting for it. It seems hypocritical to me that all the major parties simply dismiss them as rascist but yet fail to offer any satisfactory explanation for their divisive Gaelic policies in the Highlands. Why should Gaelic only schools be imposed in areas where parents do not want them and why should public money support a businessman who will only employ Gaels in his whisky making company? Scottish people are being driven out of of the Highlands as a result of divisive government policies; something evidenced by the widely reported Sleat Primary School fiasco on the Isle of Skye.

210

Lock,

07/02/2007 12:29:11

#200,

I deliberately used the SNP as an example because you are never going to exclude them. Where do you draw the line? There was a time when the SNP had no MPs, no MSPs, no councillers and no MEPs. Should they have been chucked into the bin back then?

As D Canavan & M McDonald were not affiliated to a party should they be discounted from standing?

In a roundabout way you are saying that only candidates/parties with money or existing seats should be allowed to take part. That is your suggestion.

211

Denis,

07/02/2007 12:30:32

" .... a country does not belong solely to the people born there but open to everyone"

A very idealistic sentiment, but it might be a bit of a squeeze getting everyone into Scotland, all 6.6 billion of them from around the world.

That would be about a 1300-fold increase in population.

212

Chikderic,

Inverness 07/02/2007 12:31:23

#175 Clearly you have not watched the Despatches program on Channel 4 which fiilmed Moslem speakers at various mosques arond the country. Absolutely nothing said by by anyone from a right-wing party compares with the sheer vicious hatred these Moslems speakers espoused. They really do mean it when they refer to Jews as pigs and make oinking noises, state that a woman with a PhD is inferior to all men, and refer to the rest of us a Kaffirs or Kuffar. Yet, to my knowledge, not one person has been prosecuted for these statements. Compare with this with the two trials by our Socialist regime of Mr Griffin for referring to Islam as a wicked religion.

213

Steve99,

And who else is getting it? 07/02/2007 12:31:32

While I would NEVER vote BNP, they are operating within the democratic system, and playing it rather cleverly.

Who is Christine May anyway?

She says that "This is a clear misuse of the electoral system". Well do as that SNP chappie did at Westminster and report any irregularities and it will be dealt with.

Talk about a pot calling kettles black. Sorry, I just hope that term is still politically correct enough to remain here and not have to be deleted!

214

MikeXL,

Edinburgh 07/02/2007 12:36:04

Media1 you are disgusting.

While the rest of the western world was bouycotting outspan oranges and SA wine because they were brutalising the black populace, you decided a move to SA would improve your living standards.

Now you are claiming that the BNP are cleary passionate about British values!! they dont even have any policies other than a sustained campaign of hatred and violence against blacks and asians.

I understand that to truely respect the freedoms we have in the UK that occasionally we have to listen to the ramblings of degenerates like the BNP I dont think anyone with any respect for true British Values would ever speak out in there favour.

You dont belong in this country, you belong in a Facist state where people are lead by fear and ignorance, it seems to be the only enviroment you can respect.

215

Young Ken frae Newcastle,

Border Reivers HQ 07/02/2007 12:37:22

#201. Me Bungo Pony, Angus / 12:08pm 7 Feb 2007

#195 Young Ken frae Newcastle, Border Reivers HQ
"Get real, get a job and get a life!"

Got the lot already. And I'd like to keep them. Not something that would be guarenteed under a BNP govt :(

You will keep them under the BNP. :)

The same can't be said of Labour who want to tax us to death and beyond or if Britain descended into an Islamic state sometime in the future.

216

Privateman,

Anywhere but here 07/02/2007 12:38:09

Hey Juicy Lucy #176, nothing like telling lies instead of the facts when that would be inconvenient is there? S. 37 of the 1976 Race Relations Act only applies to training, is specifically prevented from applying to employment (see subsection (3), "The preceding provisions of this section shall not apply to any discrimination which is rendered unlawful by section 4(1) or (2)"; so doesn't affect jobs as you claim) and, furthermore can only apply if
"at any time within the twelve months immediately preceding the doing of the act—
(i) there were no persons of that group among those doing that work in Great Britain; or
(ii) the proportion of persons of that group among those doing that work in Great Britain was small in comparison with the proportion of persons of that group among the population of Great Britain."
Hardly the charter for preventing "white" people from applying for jobs as you claim.
Those of the loony right always bleat that so-called PC goes farther than it actually does just to stir up hatred. And that's always been the BNP way.

217

Me Bungo Pony,

Angus 07/02/2007 12:39:01

#222 Chikderic, Inverness
"They really do mean it when they refer to Jews as pigs and make oinking noises, state that a woman with a PhD is inferior to all men, and refer to the rest of us a Kaffirs or Kuffar. Yet, to my knowledge, not one person has been prosecuted for these statements. Compare with this with the two trials by our Socialist regime of Mr Griffin for referring to Islam as a wicked religion."

Two wrongs do not make a right. Neither viewpoint should be tolerated. The BNP only exacerbate the problem, they don't offer a realistic or palatable solution. They effectively don't offer a solution at all outwith blind hate :(

218

wayne bijlyeerheid,

07/02/2007 12:42:24

If a nationalist/racialist organisation like Sinn Fein, with members who consider chip shop queues as legitimate targets for bombing, can be subsidised by the British taxpayer then how can one argue against the BNP?

219

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 12:43:17

175. Justin Time

I agree we should try to look behind headlines and the extreme actions of a tiny minority. Having done so I don't share your optimistic assessment of our prospects of being able to integrate our Muslim population. Quoting a recent poll of Muslim attitudes, 36 per cent of the young people questioned said they believed that a Muslim who converts to another religion should be "punished by death."

220

Calum Crubag,

07/02/2007 12:43:29

It's ironic that it's a quote from Hitler that is most apt here "We could only have been stopped if our enemies had crushed us from the very beginning". Sheridan is right. We should have no tolerance for those who would deny others their democracy and freedom.

The BNP are led by public-school toffs surrounded by bullnecked bootboys.

Interesting that they join the forces of Unionism and line up with Labour and the Tories to defend the Union and propogate far-right and anti-immigrant policies. What a bad bunch...

221

DAMcK,

Lanark 07/02/2007 12:44:43

I am vehmently opposed to any public funding of political parties. Politicians are ignorant, corrupt leeches and a waste of good oxygen. It is about time that the electorate indicate to politicians the depth of feeling that have for their utter contempt shown after they get into power.

222

wattie>x 1,

07/02/2007 12:44:52

I detest, and despise; what the BNP propagate but, no less than I do with the most despised political party in modern UK politics, the lying, deceitful NEW LABOUR PARTY.
These charlatan champagne socialists have discarded almost every decent principle in human society, and at the same time, have lined their own deep pockets and those of their wealthy supporters at the expense off the average person and their families.
Every person must be guaranteed the complete right within a genuine functioning democracy to differ politically, PROVIDING, armed insurrection is not advocated. This freedom which took centuries to achieve must never be forfeited at any price, to suit any social class or political dogma.

223

ChristianSoldier,

USA 07/02/2007 12:48:06

hgkdgfakd

224

Calum Crubag,

07/02/2007 12:49:47

British values? Does England/Britain have any tradition left?

Yank programs on Japanese tellies, German cars (and German royal family!), Indian and Chinese food, Swedish furniture, Belgian beer, our clothes made in Chinese sweatshops.... yet these morons don't like foreigners!!

225

G,

dundee 07/02/2007 12:53:18

It's ironic that that the BNP have used democratic freedoms to get their message across when their main message would deny basic human freedoms to thousands of Birtish citizens

I welcome their arrival on the democratic stage. I wait for their first public debate - any real politicain worth their salt will rip their racist mumblings apart.

226

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 12:54:26

227. Me Bungo Pony

You write "BNP only exacerbate the problem, they don't offer a realistic or palatable solution."

One of the BNP's most important policies is stopping immigration from the third world. Certainly that alone would not solve the problem that plenty of radical Muslims are already here but at least it would confine the problem. They propose to expel or gaol troublemakers and shut down the mosques which preach violence. All of these measures seem reasonable to me but they require confrontation with the European Union, something which our mainstream parties don't seem to have the courage for.

I read the BNP manifesto, and while I didn't agree with all of it, it's hardly as radical as the party's media image would suggest.

227

,

07/02/2007 13:00:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
228

Chikderic,

Inverness 07/02/2007 13:01:39

#180 Me Bungo Pony
Go and ask veterans of WW2 if they fought so that this country could be swamped by people who hate us and whose holy book tells them to either kill us or reduce us to second class citizens paying an extra tax for the privilege of staying alive.

#227 So Mr Griffin should have been prosecuted for stating that Islam is a wicked religion. Even if the present day antics of Moslems and history show it to be true? If National Socialism claimed to be a religion, would you conseuqently ban criticism of it? What other views do you want ban? Why shouldn't you be banned from expressing your views?

Whatever else their opponents may say about the BNP they are NOT LED BY WAR CRIMINALS like the Labour and Tory parties. So if any two parties should be banned from receiving public money and the airwaves it is these two.

229

dennykillie,

07/02/2007 13:05:40

To those of you who use the argument that the BNP is a legitimate political party and deserves to be heard, can I remind you that the National Socialist (Nazi) party in Germany was also a legitimate political party in the 1920's and 1930's.

Same views, same policies, different era!

230

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 13:09:00

230 Calum Crubag
Hate filled bile is a silly cliché but your post certainly brought it to my mind. How can you not see the irony of on one hand quoting Hitler and on the other recommending to ban a political party?

I'm not sure why you equate anti-immigrant with anti-democratic since if there was never an election won by advocating large scale immigration. Demographic replacement of many British towns by foreigners happened despite the democratic desires of the British people.

As for denying freedom to others, the current government is eroding our traditional freedoms with enthusiasm of Hitler in 1934.

231

Young Ken frae Newcastle,

Border Reivers HQ 07/02/2007 13:10:34

#253 G

Brainwashed, self-opinionated 'sheeple' like you would be shot down in flames in any live televised reasoned debate - if the BNP were lucky enough to be afforded the same freedoms and platform that the other parties take for granted from our biased British media.

232

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 13:13:23

238. dennykillie

"Same views, same policies, different era!"

Please read the BNP manifesto before making a claim like that. It's as accurate as equating the Labour party with Stalinism.

233

Juicy Lucy,

Yorkshire 07/02/2007 13:17:56

226, Privateman. Ever heard of 'turn the other cheek syndrome'. You have now.

Privateman, so you've never seen job advertisements that are specifically for 'ethnic minorities' only? That's racist, isn't it!

Why does this discrimination exist Privateman? That's racist, isn't it!

Surely, ANY job should be applicable for ANYBODY to apply for. That's fair isn't it?

New Labour being fair to everybody. Don't think so, Privateman.

234

Tweedmouth,

07/02/2007 13:18:11

124 Miss H
It would be better if you stopped indulging in 'ad hominem' (against the man) arguments. Stick to the issue and don't attack the person. One estimate is that the popultation of the UK is set to rise by an additional 10 million over the next 5 years - overwhelmingly from uncontrolled migration and illegal immigration. That is twice the entire population of Scotland. There are already more muslims in the UK than there are Scots in Scotland and the birthrate in the muslim community is about 4 times greater than that of the indigenous British.

I do not choose to live in a muslim country; I do not want to live under Sharia law; I do not want to live in an Afro-caribbean ghetto like Peckham where the murder rate from guns and knives is taking off like a rocket. I do not want a culture in which women are valued as mere chattels to be contracted into forced into marriage at 14 and denied education above 16. These social problems have been caused by allowing uncontrolled immigration from societies whose values are fundamentally different to indigenous Scots, English and Welsh values.

If I did want these things I would move to Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Jamaica or Yemen - or any of the other third world countries which these immigrants have fled.

I voted to join the European Economic Community back in 1872. Nobody asked the UK electorate to vote for the EU treaties like Maastricht. Nobody asked me to agree to open the UK's borders to 450 million EU citizens. Nobody asked me if I agreed to millions of people from utterly alien societies and cultures coming to dominate the major cities of the UK.

The indigenous culture and values of the entire UK are being eroded at a frightening rate and none of the official parties is even prepared to consider limiting immigration. This could only be done by leaving the EU and that is not going to happen under Labour, Conservatives, Lib Dems or SNP.

Take a look at Migration Watch (non

235

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07/02/2007 13:22:24
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236

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07/02/2007 13:23:41
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237

nodrog,

07/02/2007 13:24:26

Media1" The headline is good news for our democracy! The BNP are an important party and they should rightly receive the funds..."

Only in the same way cancer is to a medical researcher. Malky said everything that needs to be said on the first post.

I think the BNP have a profile because there is a crisis in political legitimacy. The "mainstream" parties have failed the country and allowed these fear mongers to spout their poison. As someone said earlier, the inconvenient facts will be the BNP's biggest enemy.

I know of no form of nationalism that is ultimately benign. History has made me view all nationalism with deep suspicion and this applies to the BNP or the SNP or any other NP

238

Me Bungo Pony,

Angus 07/02/2007 13:26:22

#237 Chikderic
"So Mr Griffin should have been prosecuted for stating that Islam is a wicked religion. Even if the present day antics of Moslems and history show it to be true? If National Socialism claimed to be a religion, would you conseuqently ban criticism of it? What other views do you want ban? Why shouldn't you be banned from expressing your views?"

By those standards, every religion is wicked. I've NEVER advocated banning criticism of religions. I do it often enough myself. The politics of hate are not the way to deal with it. They only make it worse. "You become that which you despise". As happened in NAZI Germany, my views would not be tolerated in a BNP UK. So you'd get your wish. Not only that, being anti-BNP would be a sure way of getting a good kicking .... or worse. Despite all the sharp suits and tame war vets, these are not pleasant people.

#237
"Whatever else their opponents may say about the BNP they are NOT LED BY WAR CRIMINALS like the Labour and Tory parties."

Maybe not war criminals, but there are plenty of convicted criminals in their ranks.

#236 Dougie - Edinburgh
"I read the BNP manifesto, and while I didn't agree with all of it, it's hardly as radical as the party's media image would suggest"

Oh well that's alright then :) Do you really believe they would print the nasty stuff. Don't believe the words they print, believe the bile they spout when they don't know they are being recorded.

239

Here Today HBOS Tomorrow,

07/02/2007 13:28:14

'They will probably do quite well in Glasgow, a city which had a much higher rate of dole and welfare claims per capita than most of the rest of the UK, despite the fact there were more jobs available per capita than in many other UK cities. The sad fact the BNP attracts wasters who somehow see their 30 years on the dole as being some form of contribution to society.... And in Glasgow and many old Labour areas there are quite a lot of these "sponging" socialists. Who are quite content to complain and take, and do no work themselves.

I feel sorry for the good people of Glasgow, many of whom have worked hard to turn the city round. But sadly the city still has more than its fair share of spongers. Perhaps one way round the problem would be for an immigration exchange programme, so for example each time a refugee from Somalia arrives, we send Somalia one long term unemployed (sorry on disability) person to Somalia... Most of the immigrants we receive are not entitled to the generous benefits claimed in the media, so in one swoop we would free up housing and reduce the burden on the tax payer...

:-)

240

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 07/02/2007 13:28:20

My reading from the comments made suggest that the Party that will be damaged most will be New Labour. Their term in Government has demolished any notion of democracy or free speech and are culpable for illegal wars, nefarious cash transactions and downright dishonesty. The BNP are probably on a par with this phylosophy! What a choice the voters have?

241

Maxie,

07/02/2007 13:30:16

As much as I find them vile, I have no problem with the BNP standing in the Scottish elections.

They always threaten to put up dozens of candidates in Scotland but not only do they fail to do so, they end up having candidates withdrawing at the last minute.

They are a nonentity in Scotland and post May 3 the result will be no seats for the BNP in the Scottish parliament and no councillors elected anywhere.

Shame I cant yet say the same for their fellow British national parties.

242

IWright,

Edinburgh 07/02/2007 13:30:55

#1 says it all.

243

jacky,

England 07/02/2007 13:33:06

I'd sooner my dosh go to the BNP than the £millions going in legal aid and 'hotel' fees to defend Muslim extremism!

BNP's only mistake is pigeon holing all immigrants!

244

Denis,

07/02/2007 13:38:26

# 230 Calum Crubag - "We should have no tolerance for those who would deny others their democracy and freedom." That's you, chum, if only you could see it. I think I'm right in saying that one of the first actions of Hitler was to declare the Communist Party illegal and cancel all the votes cast for them, now you want to head off down the same road. I suppose it's one alternative to winning an open debate with your political opponents.

245

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 13:42:01

247. Me Bungo Pony

"Don't believe the words they print, believe the bile they spout when they don't know they are being recorded."

While I can certainly understand anyone living under this Labour government harbouring such a sentiment, how else should be judge an organisation other than by what they say about themselves?

Presumably you're perceptive enough to see that the mainstream press has misrepresented the BNP.

If you heard a SNP supporter being racist about English people (as some of them are) would that mean the entire party has a secret genocidal plot against the English? Of course not.

One thing I did see Nick Griffin say when he didn't realise he was being recorded in a crowded pub was that Islam is a wicked religion. Contrast that with what was recorded by the reporter recently undercover in a mosque.

Last time there was a big secret undercover infiltration of the BNP, what's the worst the reporter came up with? Their membership list is secret and one of them is a ballerina who doesn't like immigration. Shocking utterly shocking I'm telling you!

246

Chris, Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 13:43:14

#245 - good spot re your spelling mistake. Sadly, I think you may have another one there in 'yous'. Still, at least you got 'BNP' right. You just have your punctuation to work on now.

247

Denis,

07/02/2007 13:43:53

# 248 - "... for example each time a refugee from Somalia arrives, we send Somalia one long term unemployed (sorry on disability) person to Somalia" - what a despicable comment, you should be ashamed.

248

Privateman,

Anywhere but here 07/02/2007 13:45:03

You didn't answer my point Juicy Lucy. The law doesn't say what you suggested it did. Discrimination on the grounds of race in employment of any kind is unlawful.The Race Relations Act 1976 makes it unlawful to publish advertisements that discriminate on racial grounds.
Job adverts for ethnic minorities only you cry? These are only allowed in very limited specified circumstances, broadly where the role involves dealing with people from that ethnic background and NEVER allows discrimination on the grounds of colour. Get your facts right and cut the pseudo-religious nonsense.
And what's this got to do with New Labour? The original act came in before they were even invented.

249

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 13:45:20

248. Here Today HBOS Tomorrow
Perhaps you might be interested to learn that 85% of Somalis of working age in Britain are actually not working. Whatever you may think of the Glasgow benefits culture, I hardly think a population exchange with Somalia would be an improvement!

250

nodrog,

07/02/2007 13:45:34

252 "BNP's only mistake is pigeon holing all immigrants!"

Really!!! I feel a "What have the Romans ever done for us" moment coming on.

251

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 13:47:15

255. Chris, Edinburgh
It was a piss take pal

252

Me Bungo Pony,

Angus 07/02/2007 13:54:42

#254 Dougie - Edinburgh
"Last time there was a big secret undercover infiltration of the BNP, what's the worst the reporter came up with? Their membership list is secret and one of them is a ballerina who doesn't like immigration. Shocking utterly shocking I'm telling you!"

The last one I saw showed a hell of a lot worse than that. Don't be suckered by these racist hate mongers. The analogy with the rise of NAZIsm in inter-war Germany is too real. Many thought they were just a decent party being misrepresented that were trying to stand up for German values against Jewish and Slavic threats. For goodness sake, they deny the Holocaust!

Despite all my comments against them, I'm ultimately consoled by the fact that the vast majority of the population see through the thin veil of pseudo-respectability. They will be little more than a distraction in the Holyrood election.

253

Neil,

9% Growth Party 07/02/2007 13:55:34

246 "I think the BNP have a profile because there is a crisis in political legitimacy. The "mainstream" parties have failed the country "

Precisely. Much better some BNP representation than a system which disenfranchises opposition views.

Regarding the BNP's 3% - note not only that the 2 SSP parties are in the polls at 1% but more importantly that Labour, a party whose record is undeniably infinitely more murderous than the BNP, has an absolute Parliamentary majority on the votes of 22% of the electorate.

I wonder when we will see a BNP representative on Question Time?

254

morris,

edinburgh 07/02/2007 13:56:42

246
The comparison between the BNP and the SNP or any other NP is stupidity beyond belief!
The two have absolutely NOTHING in common .
In supporting the United Kingdom you are automatically a British Nationalist. Everybody is a nationalist.Which nation they claim to be wishing to be included in is the variable.
Hence the entire population of planet earth who live in NATION states or in the case of Scotland in a multi national state !
You must be a Labour supporter presumably.This is typical of the numptie drivel they pour out for numptie consumption.I cannot see anybody else repeating this rubbish.
Hugh McDiarmid put it so well, when he said to a smart *** tv reporter "Laddie without nationalism you have nothing to be international with".
When it is your intention to line up alongside other nations and offer the hand of peace to your fellow man if he has the good sense to accept it,there can be nothing wrong with that!Its far better than the current warmongering foreign policy of the United Kingdom!
Your assumption is somehow that Scottish nationalism and British nationalism (or is it the last breaths of imperialism maybe)are radically different.IN a warmongering sense you are correct,but otherwise you dont have an argument to make let alone do it well.

255

Conner_Mcleod,

Manchester 07/02/2007 13:59:39

I would just like to say Who Cares?

256

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 14:09:19

261. Me Bungo Pony

Wrt. to the Holocaust, are you talking about the BNP now? Or twenty years ago? Because the modern BNP isn't anti-Semitic and has a Jewish councillor. The only mention of Jewishness I could find on the BNP website was condemnation of anti-Semitism. I fully accept that the BNP was anti-Semitic a long time ago but most of the modern Labour party leaders seem to have been Trotskyites, Stalinists or Maoists in their younger days.

257

rayjan,

England 07/02/2007 14:14:07

The reasonthat politicians go into politics is principally for financial gain.To reach even into the lower heirachy will ensure security for life to reach further up the ladder will meanyou can afford 5 million pounds worth of property in less than 10years ,your wife canhave free gifts galore.."because she is entitled to them"
Of course the BNP will gain popularity the present political parties go out of their way both politcally and financially to support migrants into this country rather than listen or support the needs of the ethnic population.
Examples are too numerous to mention but one example is today's news that £5 million is to begiven to local councils to spend on helping the muslim community intergrate...as if they really wanted too!!!

258

ChrisW,

07/02/2007 14:15:23

#1 says it all .... as many many other people above have noted.

Perhaps the real evidence that the BNP, agree with them or not, have shaken up the political establishment is the similarity of the reaction produced here to that produced in Australia to One Nation - even down to trying to jail the leaders.
Our would-be PM Broon, of course, confirmed his personal total absence of principle by suggesting, on their acquittal, the soviet-sounding solution of a retrospective change in the law so they could be convicted.
The really big issue is not the detailed philosophies of individual parties but that there is a range of parties with identifiably different policies to vote for: otherwise our democratic system is in trouble with a mess of indistinguishable "centre" parties.
If the BNP, love them or hate them, have shown that it is possible for public figures to call a spade a F**** shovel in this era of public hypocrisy, PC, sound bites, untouchable topics, euphemisms and media advisors then they may just conceivably have stimulated people to vote who would otherwise not have done so.
This, whether the tender-minded politically-correct like it or not, is what a viable democratic system absolutely requires.

259

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 14:16:50

266, Rayja, there's a word in the Koran for that 5 million pounds - jizya

260

nodrog,

07/02/2007 14:18:57

263 My MY you get yourself in a tiz. The key word in my post is "ultimately" . You make assumptions that I am a Labourite. Not true friend. You draw that conclusion on what exactly? Your own prjudice and bias I suspect. While I am happy to defer to the wit of Hugh McDairmid that is not one of his better quotes. A tad reductionist if I might be so bold.
My point is that whatever the public, acceptable face of Nationalism may portray, there is the rabid contingent that is hard to control. Hence my comment that I know of no benign form of nationalism. Please do not take it personally I was only expressing an opinion, not trying to provoke anyone.

261

Me Bungo Pony,

Angus 07/02/2007 14:24:57

#265 Dougie - Edinburgh

Read these comments from BNP members and sympathisers on a video of Christian breakdancers in America and tell me they are NOT racists. They obviously watched the video because the American group is also called BNP. Their comments on it are very revealing though :(

http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all_comments&v...

I hope the link works.

262

Denis,

07/02/2007 14:25:47

"The analogy with the rise of NAZIsm in inter-war Germany is too real."

Is it? The Nazi stormtroopers (and the "stewards" at public meetings) beat up people who openly spoke against their Party, more or less as a matter of course. They killed people, and burned down newspaper offices and printing works, and the offices of their opponents, and the soft-headed judges of the Weimar Republic gave them short sentences and they were back on the streets in no time. (One of the first things the wishy-washy liberal Weimar politicians did was abolish the death penalty.) I don't really see the BNP doing those things, yet - in fact the story is that it's Griffin who's constantly receiving death threats, and the heavies usually pictured around him are there for his protection. Actually I find that quite credible.

263

Blackie,

07/02/2007 14:33:41

My God, bring back the 1950's. Homogenious over heterogenious anyday. Where have all our values gone???????

264

Privateman,

Anywhere but here 07/02/2007 14:41:23

Well done #270! Nice to see the intelligentsia are disproving the BNP's statements that they're not a racist party.

265

Privateman,

Anywhere but here 07/02/2007 14:42:05

Just a party for racists.

266

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 14:43:36

270. Me Bungo Pony
I'm really not surprised that some BNP supporters made some uncomplimentary comments about black people dancing around.

You seem to be suggesting that somehow implies the the BNP must be a violent dangerous neo-Nazi organisation with a secret agenda to build gas chambers or what?

The BNP claim to expel those who advocate violence and illegality. If only mosques did the same.

267

R Mc,

Elgin 07/02/2007 14:47:47

Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, Tommy Sheridan , George Galloway or Nick Griffin,Yep. they might all be politicians in some shape or form but I wonder which one speaks the most truth. Certainly not Bliar, defo not Gordon 'Dick Turpin' Broon, Tam 'The champagne socialist' Sheridan or George 'The Bollinger Bolshevik' Galloway. After all the b@!!0c$ that those four have came away with in their political careers, could Nick Griffin be any worse. New Labour are getting worried that more people are going to vote BNP,cos New Labour know that there immigration policies were indeed wrong.

It was only after the UK was innundated with foreigners that the govt actually spoke about letting people in on a points based system along the lines of those used in Australia. Me thinks, maybe not so much in Scotland but definatly in England the BNP just might take a few more seats away from them.

From the messages coming across,the BNP are intolerant of foreigners and in my opinion the New Labour party are intolerant of people born and bred in the UK,unless of course you are a one armed coloured lesbian with green hair and purple polka dot hi-lites, who has 2 butch female hubby's, six kids, lives in a pooh infested camp site run by the CND and keeps a goat as a sex toy.

If it came showdown between Blair and Griffen for the next PM's job, Who would get your vote!!!!!!!

268

nodrog,

07/02/2007 14:50:06

275 "You seem to be suggesting that somehow implies the the BNP must be a violent dangerous neo-Nazi organisation with a secret agenda to build gas chambers or what?"

There you go Dougie. Apart from the gas chambers(no hard evidence of that yet) the implication is extremely accurate.

269

Mong basher,

07/02/2007 14:52:46

The problem as I see it with the BNP is that they do not go far enough and hwere they do go it's a bit wrong.

What I mean is I wouldn't consider other races to be inferior and worthy of a kicking. Equally I'm quite aware that there are plenty of white british pople who are total scum and should probably be used for slave labour!

Imagine if they said OK, we don;t care about the colour of your skin. No one else is getting in for the time being unless they're going to die. You can practice whatever religion you like but if it doesn't espouse lve and let live you will be executed.

Scum will have to work for nothing mending roads etc or be deported. imigration will be limited to a set quota and those people will have to work their way up through society over ten years before they gain citizenship.

I'd vote for (something a bit like) that!

On another note I think muslims should have muslim punishments meeted out to them for bad behaviour. Hate filled propoganda? chop off his head! racist abuse? chop off their hands. etc etc etc.

Those tube bombers should have the muslim punishment for treason inflicted on them.

270

nick chance,

Worcestershire 07/02/2007 14:53:23

The only "scum" I see are when UNISON's bed-fellows in the UAF are swearing and shouting their drivel. If they could only see the bile, vitriol and hatred spilling from their lips. They quite remind me of that awful woman Claire Short in her younger days. The fascists, you idiots in UAF, are in the Labour Government, not in BNP. You poor fools.

These UAF demos are made up of 95% students paid out of UNISON and USDAWR union funds to stand and shout obscenties. Those who saw them in Leeds at Nick's trial saw the real face of socialism with its shameful intolerance and censorship. Once they've been paid they push off home. I wonder whether the nurses approve of their union funds being spent in this way, that's if they know!! The UAF's web site is hosted by the teachers union. How worrying is that! Do the teachers also realise their money is mis-used in this way?

The BNP are here to stay and, judging by the membership rise, we are taking chunks of votes from Labour, Liberal and Conservative. You had all better hope that BNP get in so they can start to wake this country up soon as to what the political elite have in store for us all in 2009 under Angela Merkel's German direction.

May I say to Mr HAMISH MACDONELL, instead of casting aspersions upon BNP, you would serve your community far better if you wrote about the damage that 'Common Purpose' does working to the Bilderbergers's agenda. Now that would be an article!

271

The Guzz,

07/02/2007 14:57:45

# 1. Malky - Spot on. If the BNP are indeed a properly registered party then are entitled to whatever the current rules allow them. Those who fear the rise of the BNP in Scotland should remember that a vote for SNP and independence should reduce any interest the BNP have in Scotland. If they do take more votes in Scotland, let us hope that they are taken from other unionist parties as their name 'suggests' them to be, and not from SNP voters who may feel that the current migrant situation is getting out of hand. Free Scotland first and now from this unequal union and then let us set our own policies on who can and can not come to live in Scotland based on the criteria of Scotland. It's Time.

272

Here Today HBOS Tomorrow,

07/02/2007 14:58:32

256 and others, I put a ":-)" or smiley face after my reply (message 248), hence it was not serious. But I would say that if 85% of Somalians do not work, it is still an improvement on the 100% who are currently unemployed who we could send there :-)

In all seriousness though I hate the BNP and other racist parties as much as anyone else, but I do not have such a huge problem with immigration as some others do. For the most part the benefits immigrants receive are low, and most (not all) do come to work.

I am still amazed that people fear immigration so much in the UK, I am not saying you should let everyone in but really most people are after the same thing i.e. a future, regardless of ethnicity.

With respect to Glasgow, I am not sure of the current statistic but until about two years ago Glasgow had four times the national average of people on invalidity when compared to the rest of the UK. I am sure some of this can be put down to the now long gone industries, but not all of it.

With respect to economics, various studies all show that the most successful and growing economies are those which have a high number of immigrants. That said it cannot be a free for all, but the BNP´s approach is not the way to go. It is simply pandering to stereo types and those who believe misinformation.

273

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 14:59:01

276. R Mc
The goat sex toy?

274

tommy,

belfast uk 07/02/2007 14:59:35

TO 141 st pauli
When I read a post like that,it cheers me up no end to realise that I was able to avail myself of an education and not turn out as one of labours educational failures
Thankyou again

275

Mong basher,

07/02/2007 15:01:09

IN addition that guy in the picture looks like a completely revolting slob, thick as pig swill and about as pleasant. Under my regime (cue march of the storm troopers) he would be forced to pedal a cycle attached to a dynamo to power the national grid until he was no longer obese. He would also undergo ECT to correct his behaviour of being racist.

That would assume he had passed the basic citizenship IQ/psychometric testing however which I consider unlikely so in all probability he would be consigned to the gladiator pit for the general publics entertainment.

276

Stoatboy,

07/02/2007 15:01:52

Maybe it'll shake up up Scottish politics enough to bring some benefit.
Some things obviously aren't working, or else the likes of the BNP wouldn't be able to get a toehold.
Let them come and lose their deposits, but let all other parties have a look at why some might find them attractive, and do something about their own policies.

277

Privateman,

Anywhere but here 07/02/2007 15:02:28

#276, I thought the only inundation in Elgin was of the strictly watery kind. What evidence do you have that New Labour (or any other mainstream party for that matter) is "intolerant" of people born and bred in the UK? I was born and bred here and don't feel I'm not tolerated.

278

nodrog,

07/02/2007 15:03:12

278 Your moniker says it all. I suppose it was only a matter of time before the real knuckle draggers turned up.
By the way, who gets to decide the criteria for what constitutes scum? I have my own version and people with views like yours figure quite highly

279

Mong basher,

07/02/2007 15:06:52

287 - most of us i'm afraid. We are all in need of a damn good thrashing, corrective dicipline, hard work, national service, education, manners and decent behaviour.

280

Mong basher,

07/02/2007 15:08:00

Incidentally I don;t appreciate your insuation that I am a town councillor.

281

nodrog,

07/02/2007 15:10:59

288 hmmmm! quite a list. What about barbed wire vests and forced staration?

282

nodrog,

07/02/2007 15:12:05

Starvation that is

283

Here Today HBOS Tomorrow,

07/02/2007 15:14:11

In the UK the BNP is quite unpopular, fortunately. However in countries like Belgium similar parties get a large number of votes at the local and regional level. I gather the equivalent in Flanders gets around 30%, although I would need to check. The other parties of all sides had to join together to keep them out of power. The group in Flanders is so racist it even hates people from the South of Belgium - I have heard of people being attacked for speaking French in areas around Antwerp. So if you do visit there remember its Flemish you should use not French.

Fortunately in the UK we have never had a culture of politics and racism combining into a popular party. However there has always been an under current of not liking "Johnny Foreigner", however PC attitudes and common sense have prevented this agenda from being too strong in parliament. That is now changing, whether it is due to terror or just the lies printed in the likes of the Daily Mail or Sun. The result is that I suspect that the BNP, and some others are waiting in the wings to ride on the coat tails of this more vocal level of intolerance. They are entitled to air their views, but I really hope we as a country see through them. Racism has brought nothing except chaos in Europe, and we do not need to go through that kind of chaos again. Even if (like me) you do find some aspects of Islam unacceptable - that said many aspects of Christianity are also not so nice.

284

nodrog,

07/02/2007 15:14:14

289 If you mean me, I would never post such an insult

285

Swilly Tisher,

Loch Maree 07/02/2007 15:14:53

It's the price you pay for democracy. It might even serve to dilute the Conservative and UNIONIST vote. So , in that sense....(most of you should be able to complete the sentence).

286

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 15:16:08

281. Here Today HBOS Tomorrow

Since you live in Scotland and the number of non European people in Scotland is still relatively small, you're probably not very unusual in that you can't see what all the fuss about immigration is.

In parts of England, France, Netherlands and Germany however, the native people are being ethnically cleansed from their own country in certain areas. The Muslim birth-rate in Western Europe overall is roughly thrice that of the native people and ultimately the native people of England, France and Netherlands will become ethnic minorities in their own countries, minorities with a relatively low birth-rate at that. Perhaps this process can be peacefully managed in an unprecedented way but both historical analogies and current indications suggest that it will be violent and bloody.

As regions where the Muslim minorities were about to outbreed the Christian majority, Kosovo and Lebanon should serve as a warning to us of what later generations can expect in our own country.

For me, it's not about economics (although there's no economic case for importing people from the third world). It's about my children not having to the same experience of multiethnic strife as the white farmers of Zimbabwe or the Serbian exiles of Kosovo.

287

Chikderic,

Inverness 07/02/2007 15:16:26

Let's settle the immigration debate once and for all :- have a referendum. Surely one of the most fundamental rights a people can have is to decide who lives amongst them.

Perhaps some veteran of WW" can tell us if he fought to keep the Germans out only to allow Moslems and others in.

288

Anthony,

Glasgow 07/02/2007 15:17:02

This is all a backlash from the fact that a tiny self-appointed political elite took it on themselves to make profound decisions about the direction this country would take, without any sort of democratic mandate whatsoever.

The truth is not pleasant. Multiculturalism isn't working. There are profound incompatibilities between for example Islam and British cultures. This has been covered up and disguised as far as it could be, but now it is spilling over, and can no longer be concealed.

British people are not told the truth about Islamic beliefs such as umma (the belief that muslims should actively discriminate in favour of one another). Even the story about the Islamic school which was teaching its pupils that Christains were "pigs" and Jewish people "monkeys", was buried by the BBC, not making it anywhere on the main news, and instead being relegated to the late night Newsnight programme. Can you image that happening if it had been Christians or Jews describing muslims in these terms? It would have led all of the news programmes for about a week!

I'm not a BNP supporter by any means. But they are gaining strength for a reason. People are sick of crazy decisions being taken by the political elite without mandate. They are witnessing their country being changed in a way they never supported or were even consulted about. Meanwhile those taking those decisions, use their own relative wealth and power to insulate their own families from the consequences of their decisions. It's not right. Maybe our system and our politicians do need a shock at the polls! That's what they did in Denmark the Netherlands and Sweden, and it seemed to do the trick.

289

Chikderic,

Inverness 07/02/2007 15:17:13

Sorry, my poor typing meant WW2 came out as WW" !!!!

290

The laird.,

leadhills. 07/02/2007 15:28:10

I think this is a cunning move by the labour party to split the S.N.P. vote as they calculate that none of the unionist party,s curently standing have a fighting chance its about nationalism, to calculate the electorial vote , a guidence if you like, between scottish nationalism and brittish nationalism. So that the unionist government, can keep a strangle hold on scotland. Labour,s biggest fear in the holyrood election is the scottish independence vote and that,s the main reason that really they are not to concerned about the B,N,P, vote. purely and simple it,s about eroding the S,N,P, National upsurge that,s currently underway and labour are currently at a loss how to deal with it. Remember MR Brown,s proposal to evaluate the nation,s brittishness.

291

Privateman,

Anywhere but here 07/02/2007 15:33:58

#295, Dougie - more distortions from the right. Kosovo was never a "region where the Muslim minority were about to outbreed the Christian majority". Check the census statistics, the Serbs were always in the minority, far outnumbered by the Albanian majority about 10:1 even before many Serbs fled. The supremacy of the (mainly Islamic) Albanians came about centuries earlier.
Similarly, the picture in Lebanon was not one of a significant Christian majority and is further distorted by the huge Lebanese diaspora, both Christian and Muslim.
The history of both these regions is far more complicated than you can imagine and they are not simplistic examples to be used in a crude "them and us", debate.

292

Media 1,

cape town 07/02/2007 15:34:28

If you agree with the BNP funding then you are a true believer in democracy. If you think that they should not have received the money then you really should move to one of the many many African nations that cater for your sort of totalitarian points of view.

293

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 15:37:20

297. Anthony, Glasgow
You're right that increasing votes for right wing parties moved mainstream parties to adopt some of their policies in Netherlands and Denmark but Sweden??? All the mainstream parties are pro-immigration

294

Here Today HBOS Tomorrow,

07/02/2007 15:37:36

#295

I have lived in several countries, and most quite recently, including some which you mention. There is some concern about the Muslim influx, but the dialog is more constructive than in the UK and not so full of fear, just ask many Germans. In my time in Germany I did not hear a single lunch timediscussion which was anti-Muslim.

I am no fan of many aspects of Islam, and fully agree that economics is not everything. I am in favour of immigration controls, but this should be done on the basis of common sense and not fear. Its interesting to note that the reason many Muslims come to Europe is that they prefer our way of things, to what happens in say Saudi.

Like all religions Islam depends on how it is implemented and old style Chistianity was often no better. I found for example the recent schools issue unacceptable, along with many other documentaries I have seen. There also needs to be a degree of mutual freedom for example Saudi and others need to allow people to practice non-Islamic religions without fear. If not then perhaps we should alter our views as to how to control things.

However I do not think you can simply target Islam, there should be less tolerance of religious radicalism across the board. It exists and is growing in Christianity, Hinduism and many others. For example being denied employment or suffering abuse regardless of which faith it stems from is unacceptable.

295

IWright,

Edinburgh 07/02/2007 15:43:02

Let them stand, they get their democratic right. They'll get 32 lost deposits, we get something in return.

296

ddmc,

07/02/2007 15:54:21

#297 you make some very good points, but #1 malky also hits the nail on the head, it's good to see the politicians & liberal do gooders up in arms when someone like the BNP use the rules to achieve publicity or propaganda. Look at J-M LePen in France who gathered a lot of votes, it's forced the other political parties to take stock on multiculturism & other agendas that they push but werent mentioned in their manifestos

297

Maxie,

07/02/2007 15:59:37

The comment that the people of Germany, the Netherlands France and England" are being "ethnically cleansed" due to immigration is ludicrous.

It would make more sense and be more accurate to talk about England's "cultural genocide" of its smaller neighbouring countries.

In that respect, who cares? Britishness isnt something that tugs at my heart-strings.

The BNP is simply another British National Party similar to all the others and due to the words of the likes of David Blunket and Michael Howard, the BNP has been encouraged in the past by those same others.

Independence for Scotland...and more immigration.

298

Sedov,

Scotland 07/02/2007 16:00:29

Do not be fooled by the BNP claim to be democrats and as such should be respected as part of a plurarist society. They are racists and thugs and at the extreme end of a nationalist tendency which sees white people as the master race. Learn the lessons of history and kick these rascists out of Scotland.

299

JD,

07/02/2007 16:02:40

Oh no!.. We musn't allow the BNP to stand for election... but.. we'll allow Prisoners to have a vote..
What a Democracy this country is.........

300

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 16:03:11

301. Privateman

Since I've read quite a bit of Balkan history I'm interested to learn that "history of both these regions is far more complicated than you can imagine".

The Albanians became a majority in Kosovo after the enormous Serb losses of the first world war. As recently as 1966, Albanians were only 64.9% of the population. By the time the war started that had jumped to 90%. This despite that the birth-rates of other ethnic groups in Yugoslavia was also quite high, far higher than that of white people in England or Scotland.

My original point is that the Muslims used their higher birth-rate to achieve dominance and eventually expel the Serbs. I don't see any reason why the same thing might not happen in Lancashire or Yorkshire in the next few decades. In the long term, it seems inevitable. But don't worry that your grandchildren might have to fight a civil war for their own survival, it's much more important to show how compassionate and humanitarian you are by criticising the BNP, right?

301

Brew Master,

07/02/2007 16:06:47

Nice picture Mr. Griffin. The Scotsman truly is a bastion of impartiality.

302

wattie>x 1,

07/02/2007 16:11:36

#299> I believe your political assessment is not for off the mark!
The most detested of all modern detested parties; Blair and slimy Brown's New Labour can be guaranteed to have their lying machine and its clandestine supporters operating the 24 hours of each day, to confuse and mislead the voters in the May election with their usual crop off deceit and innuendo!

303

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 16:18:58

308. Maxie

"The comment that the people of Germany, the Netherlands France and England" are being "ethnically cleansed" due to immigration is ludicrous."

It happens both through outright racism against whites and also through ethnic minorities committing more crime so the native population don't feel safe, don't like the schools etc and move out.

Where would you like to start?
France?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/13/60minutes/main6...

http://www.weeklystandard.com/content/public/articles/000...

304

nick chance,

07/02/2007 16:21:24

For those of you who sincerely believe that Islam is a peaceful religion I would seriously ask you to read the work of Frank Ellis, a professor from Leeds University. In fact, try reading the Koran. Because anyone who does very quickly realises that it is, as Nick Griffin described it a wicked and vicious faith, which no apologists can excuse.
Read Churchill's view if you don't believe Frank Ellis or Nick Griffin -
“How dreadful are the curses which [Islam] lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in [Islamic] law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property (either as a child, a wife, or a concubine) must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen; all know how to die; but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, [Islam] is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome"

And why should we in this country put up with this nonsense? Nobody's asked us if we wanted all of these immigrants did they? Why should

305

wattie>x 1,

07/02/2007 16:23:29

#299> I believe your political assessment is not for off the mark!
The most detested of all modern detested parties; Blair and slimy Brown's New Labour can be guaranteed to have their lying machine and its clandestine supporters operating the 24 hours of each day, to confuse and mislead the voters in the May election with their usual crop off deceit and innuendo!

306

Eve,

Scotland 07/02/2007 16:27:29

It's a waste of Money, most people depolour the kind of bigioted behavior that comes from the BNP.

If their standing in May, it will be my plesure to vote against them like the Labour party and co.

The BNP "has three Scottish members, currently living in England, who are willing to stand north of the border if required. "

well thats something, they have 3 members of there party who are Scottish and hear was me thinking they had none.

307

R Mc,

Elgin 07/02/2007 16:36:46

282 Dougie,

Sorry,in my rush to get the post finished I neglected to mention the green and purple heeded,one armed coloured lesbo was also into dabbling in devil worshipping hence the goat as a sex toy, Or did I get it the wrong way round, Maybe it was a goat with a purple and green fleece who lived in a dungheap paid for by the CND who used a lesbian as a sex toy.................

Hells ballicks, I forgot, infringments and comments about goats, funny coloured heeded lesbs and the Liarbour party can have serious consequences, Like in the wee hours in the morn when it's really dark a big black limo filled to bursting point with the anti-fun polis and adorned with KGB insignia on the doors will come and smash down your door and take you into the nearest chokey,arrest your wife and bairns and send you to the gulag.

You'll be incarcerated in the pokey and have to attend classes and lectures on ...... tree hugging, basket weaving, political correctness and saving the planet"Gordon Broon"style. Lectures and classes given by a one armed coloured lesbo, who now has a bronze and scarlett hair-do, bolts thru her neck, dreadlocks with wee deed animal skulls woven into them,9 kids by 5 different fathers(4 of them by the goat)who now lives in a squat paid for by the local socialist/marxist/communist toon cooncil and she shares it with a hermaphrodite transexual who has a masters in "real politiks and organic agriculture from the University of planet twonk.

Meanwhile,the local biker gang have been run into the cop shop because the viking death metal thrash CD that they've just put on the stereo has annoyed the local tolerant imam who was just about to preach terrorist training tactics and D i Y bomb making classes for new beginners in the local mosque

Just as the heed bikers bonce connects with the cell bars, the secretary of state releases hundreds if not thousands of murderers, rapists, robbers, illegal imm

308

Eve,

Scotland 07/02/2007 16:38:33

#315: Whos the NF?

You critase others? (because their not like you)
Islam is about peace, you just get extremists, like in all religeons and cultures.

If you really love something, why can't you share it and show it of the positvive parts to the world instead of acting like a bunch of bigoits?

P.S. People don't fear the BNP, they just fear that they'll win seats and the people will suffer from high rates of social exclusion!!!!!!

309

Denis,

07/02/2007 16:41:11

Interesting that some people keep calling the BNP "thugs", while their opponents are supposedly saints. Yet the only time I've seen TV pictures of rocks being thrown around in connection with the BNP, it was when they had invited Le Pen to a meeting, and then the rocks were being thrown by the "Anti Nazi League" or whatever they call themselves. Is that thuggery, or are they exempt from the law because they claim to be "anti-nazi"? Certainly the police didn't seem much interested in arresting any of them.

310

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 16:41:34

319. Eve
If you think Islam is a peaceful religion you obviously haven't been getting along to Koran study group often enough

311

TheGlaswegian,

Edinburgh 07/02/2007 16:46:50

#311 Dougie - 'My original point is that the Muslims used their higher birth-rate to achieve dominance and eventually expel the Serbs. I don't see any reason why the same thing might not happen in Lancashire or Yorkshire in the next few decades. In the long term, it seems inevitable.'

I agree completely. I am not racist but it is a worry. It is widely accepted that they way things are going, the whole of Europe will be under muslim control somewhere between 50 and 100 years from now.

If France continues the way it is going, there will be a muslim majority by 2025.

How dare the indigenous population of any European country dare complain though. Lets just keep producing benefits leaflets in their languages, lets keep paying them to multiply and lets hope that they remember how good we were to them when they finally discuss introducing their laws to wipe us out.

Oops! I sounded a bit racist there, I can assure you I am not. I am no BNP voter either. However, the scenario above is for real.

.

312

,

07/02/2007 16:47:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
313

David at Tay,

07/02/2007 16:47:29

It just might be that the media, the establishment and the others with vested interests are a bit worried that people might just agree with some of the stuff they spout, what would they do then? Ban everyone form everything until we all toe the PC brigades line. Abhorrent they may be, but democarcy is what we aspire to, so let them talk and lets here their points, we're all big people, we can tell a stink when we smell it. lets stick to the issues and have all the opinion heard without the sniping. Is an editorial decision to run this story, what's the agenda?

314

Neil,

9% Growth Party 07/02/2007 16:50:51

Rayjan 266
"The reasonthat politicians go into politics is principally for financial gain."

Low as my expressed opinion is of most politicians in terms of competence & high as is my desire to see Blair hung for genocide, I think you are quite wrong.

If there were any truth to it it would obviously only apply to those parties which have a decent chance of forming a government. I doubt if anybody joins the BNP (or indeed the Greens or SSP or at one time the Liberals) in the expectation that this is the easy road to ministerial office. Ask Peter Hain.

315

Eve,

Scotland 07/02/2007 16:55:19

#321. Dougie - Edinburgh: Most religions are about peace.

As I said you get extremists in Islam like any other religion and culture.

I think it's wroung to brand a large group of people under a negative banner.

Most people mean no one any harm.

Whats a Koran study group? (My RE isn't as good as it maybe should be)

316

nodrog,

07/02/2007 16:57:08

318 "..But here in Britain the three main parties (with BBC + media connivance) are scared stiff of BNP and so they continue to hang this unsavoury epithet around our necks of "racist thugs". We love Britain and that's it."

The 3 main parties are repulsed by the BNP not scared. They recognise that underneath the surface of the current public face lies a fascist bunch of racist thugs. Yes it is unsavoury. Racism and fear mongering IS unsavoury. So are the type of people that you actively recruit.

As for your polemic post. The tone implies evangelism and that always makes me suspicious. Quoting Churchill. You have a nerve, with your Nazi salutes! I think Churchill would have seen the unsavoury nature of that.

Oh, I too love Britain with all its diversity that other cultures bring. My experience is enriched by this. What I do not like is the separatist morons who claim it for themselves. What do you mean by Britishness? For every "quality" you can name, I can name another that is equally valid. I don't think we will be able to reconcile them, however. So do not purport to speak for Britain. You do not speak for me.
Then again I am sure you have a plan for the likes of me.

317

Sedov,

Scotland 07/02/2007 16:57:13

#320 Denis -take it from me the BNP are thugs and I have personal experience of their violence as have a few of my friends when leafletting against racism in England. Read SEARCHLIGHT a trade union sponsored paper and you will get the low down on the lowest form of creatures in this country. there have been a lot of diversions to other subjects by the apologists of the BNP on this thread so type in SEARCHLIGHT on your search engine and be enlightened.

318

GHS,

07/02/2007 17:00:44

The BNP is a party of the LEFT based on their policies and has stood in England on the line of vote for the old Labour you knew. The threat to the salaries and perks of the Labour MSP's is what sparks the vehemence. They know they couldn't command an salary any where near what they now get if they were in the real world.

319

Maxie,

07/02/2007 17:01:12

Eve #317"

"The BNP has three Scottish members currently living in England who are willing to stand north of the border if required."

That's the crux of the matter. After May 3rd, the BNP will have no seats in the Scots parliament and no seats in any of our 32 council chambers.

They will probably also fail to get their 32 candidates for the Holyrood election even with their three reinforcements. They never do field their initially stated number of candidates

The paltry vote that the BNP will get here, should make even them realise that they're not wanted in Scotland.

320

Douglas Eckhart,

Edinburgh 07/02/2007 17:04:51

I agree,

I don't like them but they are a legitimate party and they therfore are entitled to air their views.

btw for those who compare them to the Nazi Party in 1933:

Check your history. They were never voted into power. They did achieve a high percentage of the vote in the last free election which gave them political weight but not enough to propel them into power as they still only polled 33% of the total vote. However, at this point Hitler was made chancellor by the right wing establishment with the hope of keeping Hitler and the NASDAP (Nazi party) under control.

This policy backfired as after Hitler became Chancellor subsequent votes were rigged and the SA were sent round to 'persuade' people to vote and so all future rigged elections show massive support for the NASDAP

The last legit elections only ever gave the Nazis 33% of the total vote.

Its a myth that they were 'voted' into power. However, there was a suge in support but it was the right wing establishment that put them into power.

The same situation does not apply today in the UK with the BNP.

Anyway, even if you don't like the Nazis, you have to admit they were made up of some pretty clever (if mad) people.

I don't think we need to worry about the BNP as I have yet to see a BNP candidate who has an entire brain cell.

321

Steve Scotland,

Good on the Scotsman 07/02/2007 17:11:54

I am happy to see the Scotsman ar leasts allows debate on this subject as the BBC doesnt want to.

Lets face facts, the BNP say what ALOT of people think. I see no evidene of them being anything other than extreme left wing with a nationlist base, nothing new in European politics. Uncheked immigration will be ruinous, multiculturism is a farce that the British people should never have had FORCED upon them. The other choices are awful and far worse than the anything the BNP can throw at us...Labour is pathetic, look at the mess everything is in, and lets nbot forget the war they invloved us in......and lied about it.

322

Eve,

Scotland 07/02/2007 17:18:09

#336. Steve Scotland: The BBC is scared that the debate will go down the independence rute and have people argueing about the union, not something the BBC would wont debated.

As the comments might prove the current polls to be true.

323

BILLYPOPE,

Larkbridge 07/02/2007 17:20:57

Even if the average BNP member is dodgy at least they are bringing legitimate points of view and concerns to the table.
It will hopefully turn out similar to the Green party's experience - one big bit of the popular vote about 10 years ago scared the big parties into taking on some of their agenda - result - the eclipse of the Green party itself, comparatively speaking, but green issues now part of the mainstream.

In my view you just can't ignore the fact that the BNP are getting big votes in some areas - Burnley and the like - as high as 10-20 per cent of those who bother to turn out. Let's get these ideas on to the agenda - it is our democratic duty to do so.

Comparisons to the Third Reich are understandable but, I feel, not appropriate for too many reasons than I can document here.

324

ddmc,

07/02/2007 17:22:33

I think the question raised by the BNP which the mainstream parties try to ignore is one of Nationalism, is it wrong to be proud of your country & the values it stands for & wanting people who come to this country to learn these values. I don't agree with BNP policies but this one i do. The other problem is rather than face the issues head on, the mainstream parties resort to the facist, racist, Nazi slurs & avoid the questions raised by the BNP, the only way to win against them is to tackle the subjects they raise, i.e immigration, multi culturism, job outsourcing etc, otherwise they will gain votes. I believe they have a few local councillors in Burnley after the racial tensions there a couple of years ago because people felt let down by the mainstream parties.

325

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 17:22:49

Eve, 329
You write most religions are about peace. Buddhism, Christianity, yes. Islam no.

You're right that not all follows of Islam are extremists and there are extremists in any other religion and culture.

An important difference is that unlike Christianity, Islam's holy book commands its followers to spread the religion throughout the world, by war and guile when peaceful methods fail.

You think it's "wroung to brand a large group of people under a negative banner."

Presumably you'd make an exception for an aggressive expansionist ideology like Nazism or Stalinism? Islam is also an aggressive expansionist ideology.

326

Media 1,

cape town 07/02/2007 17:23:46

If I was forced to make a choice between the SNP and the BNP I would vote the latter in a heartbeat.

327

Miss H,

07/02/2007 17:27:46

339 - that's not what the BNP is about. You can't be British according to them unless you are of Celtic, Anglo Saxon or Norse descent. Everyone else is a foreigner no matter how long their family may have lived in Britain or how British they may feel.

That's what they say. It's on their website. Read it for yourself.

There is no way that such a belief can be anything but racist. Britishness according to them is a matter of genes, not beliefs or attitudes.

That's why all the other parties regard them as being racist. Because they are.

328

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 17:33:11

335. Douglas Eckhart

You wrote "I have yet to see a BNP candidate who has an entire brain cell"

Now that the Conservative party is trying to outflank Labour on the left, the UKIP and Labour are shrivelling and every day seems to bring more news to highlight the failure of multiculturalism, I suspect the BNP will become ever more electable and also, will attract frustrated talent from the mainstream parties.

You might not have seen one yet but don't be surprised if you see one soon :)

329

Denis,

07/02/2007 17:34:57

Sedov - but why should I take it from you? What I saw was the so-called anti-nazis behaving like nazis, and what I hear all the time is the so-called anti-nazis talking like nazis. Nothing that "Searchlight" says can be taken at face value, they have no respect for the truth or for democracy. And listen to the baying of the pack in the article above - why should I believe what any of these people say? I could tell you about outright thuggery by Labour activists, somehow that doesn't get mentioned in the press.

330

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 17:35:00

343. Miss H
If that's so, presumably you also regard the Metropolitan Black Police Association as racist?

331

Jack Black,

London 07/02/2007 17:35:24

I guess the "POLITICIANS and anti-racism campaigners" would prefer that there be one rule for them and their pets and another for those who don't share their views.

Our POLITICIANS employ 3,259 spin-doctors to sanitise the bad news and more than 4,000,000 CCTV cameras to check out our every move. The British are thus the most spied upon people in the world.

I wonder what the POLITICIANS and anti-racism campaigners would have made of George Orwell.

To whit:

Big Brother is watching you.

And:

In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

And:

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.

It would appear that the POLITICIANS and the anti-racism campaigners aren't too keen on Orwell's idea of liberty.

Jack Black maintains the politically incorrect website: iamanenglishman.com

332

Media 1,

cape town 07/02/2007 17:36:25

#342 Richard: What it says is that I am permitted to excercise my democratic rights..OR is that not allowed in your world?

333

Maxie,

07/02/2007 17:39:08

#241 media1 Cape Town

"If I was forced to make a choice between the SNP and BNP I would vote the latter in a heart beat."

No surprise there media!

You're probably hankering after the good old days of apartheid.

Anyway. A white immigrant to South Africa wanting to stop black and Asians in South Africa emigrating to his old country!

tsk...tsk... be consistent at least!

334

ddmc,

07/02/2007 17:39:35

miss H never tried to say they werent racist & morally repugnant, but i have views on nationalism where i believe in promoting the values of Britain without bending to the PC culture where you can't say x y or z for fear of offending someone from another culture, happy holiday season is one silly example. But mention Nationalism to labour,Lib Dems etc & you get called a xenophobe, facist or racist. This is the only thing i agree with them on. But as i say until the mainstream parties tackle them head on about their policies nothing will change.

335

Robbie,

New Zealand 07/02/2007 17:42:33

150. AJ, Fife Robbie@18
“ I was indeed, in ma beddybys - what did the eejit say that was offensive enough to be erased?”
Hi AJ- can’t quote verbatim but about your history of pro-Catholicism or words to that effect. Not really relevant to the forum.
190. Me Bungo Pony
Thanks for that - I’ll digest that later. 21st century and still poverty in every land.

336

Cynic,

Dalkeith 07/02/2007 17:43:11

Competition in business is healthy and welcomed. Same with politics to break the monotony and monopoly of complacent politicians and their overweening parties. The main political parties are running scared at the thought the BNP will do well. The failures of the mainstream parties will auger well for the BNP.

337

Miss H,

07/02/2007 17:43:23

218 - the SNP don't stand anywhere outside Scotland so that is a meaningless comment. This is about the BNP standing for election to the SCOTTISH PARLIAMENT so it is their electotal record in Scotland that counts. They have never had anyone elected in Scotland. They never will. Why should the public be expected to subsidise their activities when they have no real support?

Equally meaningless is comment 220. The SNP was founded in 1934 and got its first MP elected in 1945. There were no PPBs in those days and the SNP got no help whatsoever from the British state. They only started to get financial support once they had elected members. I suggest the same rules should apply to any party.

338

Miss H,

07/02/2007 17:46:21

346 - do the black police guys think that nobody other than black people are real police officers? Or should be allowed to be police officers? Should all the non-black police officers get back to where they came from?

Do enlighten us.

339

freedom 8,

uk 07/02/2007 17:49:42

Christine May states that 'the BNP'S policies are abhorrent.
Here are a few of their policies
1. Get a grip on Immigration and secure our borders.
2. Bring back the death penalty for terrorists.
3. Opt out of Europe and balance the books at the NHS.
4. Re introduce the three R's within our schools.
Which ones are abhorrent Ms May?

340

Media 1,

cape town 07/02/2007 17:50:16

Maxie: No I am not hankering following apartheid, but many black people in Zimbabwe are and the same is about to happen here. That old apartheid system that our British government along with the Americans kept funding during the cold war was not very nice, but its gone now and nothing much has changed except that the crime and the corruption within the new government will eventually destroy its people..

But back to the BNP! They are a legal party and it is my right to vote for them if I so wish. I may never vote for them, but if I wanted to I should be able to do so without encountering your wrath.

Then again, democracy is obviously not your thing so I should really just pity you.

341

Allan,

07/02/2007 17:50:43

Judging by the way the leftists are reacting this can only be a good thing. If the BNP collect a significant share of the vote maybe the rest of the parties will start to focus on issues which really concern the electorate.

342

Media 1,

cape town 07/02/2007 17:54:15

A black met is only racist if there is no room for a white met

343

R Mc,

Elgin 07/02/2007 17:54:18

#286 Privateman

How long did it take the Labour Govt to clamp down on the likes of Abu Hamza and others who were preaching violence towards this country???? Years.

How long did it take the Labour Govt to clamp down on the BNP ????? Days. If you are not part of an ethnic minority in this country the Labour govt has no time for you or your wishes/needs.

I wonder how many people who view this site from South of the border feel about whether they feel Labour are tolerant or intolerant towards them.

If and it's a big "IF" If Labour get into power for another term I'll be dreading the catastrophic and ridiculous policies that they are sure to bring in. Might be an idea to leave the country all to them, move to another country where the policies aren't so pathetically stupid and then return when the whole country has went down the crapper.

Then we can incarcerate politicians in the jails and re-educate them. They can have classical heavy metal hour with thrash band Zodiac Mindwarp. Immolate the ozone layer with big fuel guzzling V 24 engines introduced by the Top Gear team. Save fish,eat a dolphin (Yep tasted alrighty did Flipper)

Beam me up Scotty, hit the hyper drive button and lets go and educate another planet.

Aye Aye Captain

Eh Haud oan a meenit Cap'in, did ye pay fur the excess fuel duty oan thay wee crystal thingies,ye know how this trip is an inter-gallactic wan and what wi Tony and his mates wantin tae save the planet n'nat,we've been gubbed tae pay another hike at the dilythium pumps, Ah'm tellin ye Jim,wan mair rise in the price a juice fur this beastie an ye can kiss yer warp drive tata. Oh aye, an hiv ye seen the price o the "space road tax" fur an inter stellar battle-cruiser, see thay new labour, mair like bloody auld labour cept they divni hae some decrepit auld socialist numpty at the helm,it's sum wee smiley smirkin sleekit nyaff. Haw

344

Dànaidh,

Alba 07/02/2007 17:57:22

The BNP are not welcome in Scotland. First and foremost I do not feel British in the modern sense of the word. Britain is an island- Scotland is a country forming part of that island.

At the end of the day the BNP are racist.
I welcome people to Scotland. As the slogan says; One Scotland. Many cultures.

End British cultural imperialism in Scotland!! Support Scottish culture, celebrate diversity!!!!!
------
Alba gu bràth!

345

Angharad,

Preston, Lancashire 07/02/2007 17:58:24

I've just been reading the hysterical, deluded and hate-filled ravings of some of the spittle-flecked "antifascists" on here.
One such is "Sedov", who urges us to become "enlightened" by reading the hysterical, deluded and hate-filled ravings of the spittle-flecked "antifascists" at the Searchlight website.
I do hope people will visit the 'Searchlies' website and see for themselves the sort of thing being peddled there.

Then take the antidote -
http://www.searchlight.org.uk/index.html
Ha-ha-ha!

These "antifascists" are pathetic. The more they spout off the more the public are exposed to their poisonous nonsense and the more they revile them. In fact everything they say and do backfires on them and benefits the British National Party enormously, to the extent that they have become the BNP's best recruiting sergent.

The British National Party is a legal and properly constituted political party under the terms of the law and the Electoral Commision.
The BNP tells the truth and reflects the views of the Majority of right thinking people. They are not in it for the money and they will never deceive people the way that the establshment parties do.

So come on all you "antifascists". Keep it coming. We will benefit from your "enlightenment" while having a good laugh at you at the same time.

346

Media 1,

cape town 07/02/2007 17:59:19

#359 Danaidh: Define racism!

This should be interesting.

347

Dougie - Edinburgh,

07/02/2007 17:59:59

354. Miss H
Your comment is sadly typical of the double standards applied to white people and a part of the reason for the BNP's popularity.

The BNP is an ethnocentric organisation which exists to promote the interests of an ethnic group. The black police association is in this sense exactly the same. The only difference is one gets knighthoods, one gets vilified. That's hypocrisy in case you somehow can't see it.

348

Maxie,

07/02/2007 18:03:40

media1 ~356

You are the one who said that given a certain choice you would vote BNP "in a heart beat" that's what you said #241

You didnt inspire any wrath in me.

I just thought it hypocritical that you as a British born white emigrated to South Africa but would deny Black and Asian South Africans the right to emigrate to the UK.

At the very least THAT is hypocritical.

Maybe you can explain this hypocracy that you practice?

349

Alasdair Roy,

Aberdeen 07/02/2007 18:04:17

"These are fascists masquerading as politicians and we will see them off. We will make sure they don't get a platform" --- says the unpleasant and hate filled Robina Qureshi of Positive Action in Housing.

Is Ms Qureshi advocating violence against BNP candidates? And is she speaking in her capacity as Director of Positive Action in Housing which is a registered charity. Time perhaps for OSCR our new Scottish Charities' Regulator to take a look?

350

Media 1,

cape town 07/02/2007 18:05:57

#363 Richard: And who determines racism? Is it you?

Your knowledge of SA is laughable, you read a few propoganda books and were fortunate enough to hear the tail end of a story or two here and there..Your comments about this nation are juvenille.

Now back to the topic at hand. Are we all at Richards mercy? Must we all conform to his way of thinking? Does he like dictatorial regimes?

351

Angharad,

Preston, Lancashire 07/02/2007 18:07:37