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Giants lose £13.2bn in shares rout and at last they will act



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Published Date: 08 October 2008
A MASSIVE rescue plan to bolster UK banks was to be announced by the government this morning, after £13.2 billion was wiped from Scotland's leading financial institutions.
The bail-out of up to £50 billion, revealed in The Scotsman yesterday, could effectively mean the part-nationalisation of major high-street names, including the Royal Bank of Scotland and HBOS. Yesterday, the value of RBS and HBOS plunged – by 39 per cent and 41.5 per cent respectively – on a dramatic and devastating day for the Scottish giants. At one point, worst-hit RBS was haemorrhaging value by almost £2 million a second.

Its shares closed at 90p, wiping a further £9.6 billion off the group's market value. Shares in HBOS fell to 94p – a £3.6 billion loss – despite last week's assurances that the emergency takeover by Lloyds TSB would go through as planned.

The share plunges fuelled concerns that major corporate customers were planning to move their assets to safer havens.

After the markets closed, crisis talks took place at Downing Street, involving the Chancellor, Alistair Darling, the governor of the Bank of England, Mervyn King, and Financial Services Authority chairman Lord Turner.

News of the government's rescue deal was due to be revealed at 7am today, before the City reopened. Mr Darling confirmed last night he would make a statement "to put banks on a longer-term, sound footing".

He said: "The Bank of England has been putting substantial sums into the market today, and it is ready to do more when that is needed.

"We have been working closely with the governor of the Bank of England, the Financial Services Authority and financial institutions to put banks on a longer-term, sound footing.

"I intend to make a statement before the markets open tomorrow morning, and I will be making a further statement to the Commons later in the day."

It is understood all the UK's leading banks will be involved, but it was unclear last night if a curb on bank executives' pay would be part of the deal.

Nick Clegg, the Liberal Democrat leader, said today would be "a day of reckoning for the whole British economy".

However, there is growing disquiet at the time it has taken to finalise the rescue deal, under which the government will buy stakes in the banks, potentially involving the issue of some £30 billion to £50 billion of preference shares.

In the markets, the extraordinary price collapses yesterday were due to huge volumes of shares being dumped by institutional investors fearful that the recapitalisation announcement might result in ordinary share values being hugely demoted by a preference share scheme.

One banking figure close to the negotiations with the government said: "For the government to flag up the recapitalisation scheme so extensively and then leave a vacuum has been downright irresponsible."

Sandy Chen, an analyst at Panmure Gordon, said the plunge was down to shareholder fears over dilution of investments. He said there was also mounting concern at RBS and Barclays, in particular, over potentially massive exposure to defaults on complex financial instruments.

Vince Cable, the Liberal Democrats' Treasury spokesman, said: "It looks as if RBS are the latest victim of a speculative attack. The continuing uncertainty over the government's intentions is proving very damaging."

Amid the criticism, there were calls for the Bank of England's policymakers to cut interest rates by a full percentage point to ease the crisis when they meet today. Their decision will be revealed tomorrow. Downing Street also confirmed the National Economic Council would hold a meeting at 8am today in the Cobra emergency briefing room, usually used during terrorist attacks.

Effectively a "war cabinet" for the course of the financial crisis, the NEC is chaired by the Prime Minister and comprises senior ministers and officials.

Emergency discussions about the global financial crisis took place at all levels of government yesterday, with European finance ministers agreeing a pan-EU scheme to guarantee deposits of up to 50,000 (£38,000).

After the summit, Mr Darling flew back from Brussels to meet Gordon Brown, Lord Turner and Mr King.

Meanwhile, The Scotsman understands that two major corporate figures have been in touch with Alex Salmond, the First Minister, to express concern over the crisis in inter-bank lending markets.

Mr Salmond is believed to be concerned at the time it has taken to negotiate the recapitalisation plan, while confidence is haemorrhaging from Scotland's leading banks.

Last night, he said he wanted the UK government to adopt a three-point strategy to fight the worsening economic crisis: the Treasury to guarantee all deposits in British financial institutions; the Bank of England to "unfreeze the system in terms of inter-bank lending" by lending money to the banks; and for the Bank's monetary policy committee to approve a "substantial cut in interest rates".

Also, in an extraordinary move yesterday, the US Federal Reserve resorted to legislation not used since the Great Depression to provide unsecured company lending to unfreeze the bank-to-bank lending market.

This is the action that the First Minister is understood to be urging the Bank of England to take.

The International Monetary Fund also called for a comprehensive, co-ordinated international response to the global crisis, which it said had become disorderly and more damaging than it previously thought.

UK business leaders, meanwhile, piled pressure on the Bank of England to opt for a deep interest rate cut. The Federation of Small Businesses revealed a poll of 6,000 companies showed the majority had seen operating costs increase and trade reduce.

Last night, it emerged that HBOS has agreed to sell its Australian banking business for £1.2 billion in a move to boost its balance sheet. The sale, to Commonwealth Bank of Australia, is subject to approval by Australian regulators.

HOW THE DAY UNFOLDED

01:20: The Japanese Nikkei 225 share index sank more than 5 per cent, falling below 10,000 for the first time since December 2003.

05:00: The Reserve Bank of Australia cuts its key interest rate from 7 per cent to 6 per cent.

05:00: Japan's central bank announces it is keeping its key interest rate unchanged at 0.5 per cent.

07:00: Japan's Nikkei 225 recovers to finish above 10,000, but leaving it 3 per cent down on the day at 10,155.9.

07:20: Moscow's two stock exchanges suspend trading as an announcement says they will stay closed for the morning.

08:00: FTSE 100 opening share prices: RBS 150, HBOS 168.5, Lloyds TSB 270, Barclays 320.

08:10: London's FTSE 100 rises 1.5 per cent, recovering some of Monday's losses which saw the FTSE fall by 7.86 per cent.

08:43: Frankfurt's DAX 30 is up 1.47 per cent, while the Paris Cac 40 also rises 3.08 per cent.

08:57: Royal Bank of Scotland shares are down 30 per cent after reports that the chief executive, Sir Fred Goodwin, together with John Varley of Barclays and Lloyds TSB bosses met the Chancellor, Alistair Darling, and the Bank of England governor, Mervyn King, to discuss government funding.

09:00: FTSE 100 share prices: RBS 127, HBOS 146, Lloyds TSB 217.75, Barclays 290.75.

09:00: The FTSE falls to 4609.3, leaving the index just 20.1 points higher after an hour of trading.

09:00: Gordon Brown holds a Cabinet meeting.

09:21: The pound hits 2-year low against the US dollar. Sterling at $1.7322, its weakest since April 2006.

09:22: Royal Bank of Scotland shares slump 39 per cent.

09:30: The FTSE index of leading shares was down 2.3 per cent.

09:35: The Icelandic government nationalises Landsbanki, the country's second-largest bank.

09:36: The Russian regulator delays trading on Moscow exchanges until 13:00 local time (10:00 BST), 2 hours after normal opening hours.

10:25: Iceland's central bank releases a statement that Russia has agreed to loan it 4 billion (£3.1 billion), although a spokesman for Russian prime minister Vladimir Putin says he cannot confirm the statement.

10:45: The Foreign Secretary, David Miliband, emerges from 10 Downing Street after the Cabinet meeting. He said: "These are very serious times. We take them very seriously."

11:00: Russia's stock markets made early gains in the first hour of trading, after trading opened late, and was up 2.6 per cent to 889.1 points.

11:07: Royal Bank of Scotland shares recover slightly.They are now trading at 110.6 pence.

11:18: Russian president Dmitry Medvedev promises credit of up to $36 billion (£21 billion) to the country's banks to stabilise the economy.

11:32: US light crude oil rallies to just above $90 a barrel.

Bail-out story riles No 10

DOWNING Street yesterday made clear its disapproval at media reports that a £50 billion taxpayer-funded bail-out for the main banks was on the cards.

The Scotsman was the first paper to reveal that the Treasury was ready to take a stake in the stricken banks.

Announcing a crisis meeting yesterday,

a clearly irritated spokesman for the Prime Minister said: "The government is certainly not going to engage in irresponsible briefing."

Mike Gilson, the editor of The Scotsman, said the "impeccably sourced" report was of huge public interest, given the sums of taxpayers' cash that may be involved.

The full article contains 1586 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 08/10/2008 00:12:30


Yes! one might say,,..

Depression is when HBOS shares closed at 96pence yesterday.

In these uncertain times, maybe if you have any money in the Banks, take it OUT PDQ!

Look at Iceland!

'Aye', we will all be trading, with the bantering of goods and services soon, forget your Pound Notes!

I have a few sacks of 'Tatties' I will trade them for 2gallons of Petrol!

Any Takers,? (reply trading centre, Scotsman News Offices) :)
2

Nellie Rogers,

Reading bus time tables 08/10/2008 00:13:07
Me, I blame the trams.
3

Nellie Rogers,

still studying bus time tables 08/10/2008 00:19:25
Mr Linskaill #1

"bantering of goods" Is that like when your shopping starts talking to one another in the basket?

Happened to me the other day, in Iceland coincidentally enough.

Those frozen chips would not shut up, bantering away to a nice wee chop I had bought for my tea that night.

I blame the trams.
4

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 08/10/2008 00:20:24


Nellie Rogers #2,

10 free tram journeys, for 4 pieces of, 'Broken Gold'

(reply trading centre, Scotsman News Offices) :)
5

Rufus T. Firefly,

08/10/2008 00:20:28
Nevsky what would the Norwegian Government done in similar circumstances?

Everyone loves your Norway Stories.
6

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 08/10/2008 00:23:15


Nellie Rogers ~3,

Poor "Chips" You 'Ate Them', much good did "Banter" do them! :))
7

Nellie Rogers,

still reading bus time tables 08/10/2008 00:27:06
#6
No Charles they are still in the freezer. I can hear them yapping occasionally to the frozen peas and that leftover kedgeree in the margarine tub.

Time for my medication and my wee afternoon nap

Goodnight.
8

intheknowinlondon,

London 08/10/2008 00:44:40
Finally, they have taken action. The mighty RBS will now have the confidence in the market that HBOS should have had. A shame it took so long but good to know that there's finally the hope of stability. Well done, Gordon Brown.
9

Edwardg,

08/10/2008 00:52:48
It's quite strange how the Scotsman is blaming the government for Royal Bank of Scotland's current predicament. Surely the blame lies with Sir Fred Goodwin and the RBS management who foolishly paid way over the odds for ABN Ambro. ABN was rotten to the core and RBS paid a huge premium over what even Barclays were prepared to pay.

On another note, I think Salmond has let himself down with his calls for the government to guarantee all savings in UK banks. Surely he understands that such a move, without the consent of our EU partners, would not only provoke fury on the continent but would also prove counter=productive to attempts to broker a Europe wide solution (which is essential given the scale of this crisis) not to mention illegal (the EU will probably force Ireland to backtrack).
10

Edwardg,

08/10/2008 00:58:23
Personally I feel sorry for those living in Iceland. It looks like their entire economy is on the verge of collapse. Ireland is facing a similar (though not quite as serious) crisis.

So much for Salmonds famous 'arc of prosperity' aye? There's still Norway I suppose.........
11

GalacticCannibal,

MurrietaCA for more WAR VOTE McCain 08/10/2008 01:06:00
1 Charles Linskaill,Edinburgh 08

Hey Dude Depression has nothing on Recession.
Recession happens when u have no job.

Adios

Dude
12

Jock MacSprog,

08/10/2008 01:17:21
This is what happens when you put an ex Edinburgh Coonciloor in charge of the UK Economy. Only there because he was a loyal party hack. No Economic background or experience at all. He is hugely over his head and has made things worse by dithering for days. These politicians for life that we have really worry me. No real world life experience at all.
13

Jock MacSprog,

08/10/2008 01:25:16
This is the man ru(i)nning our economy and financial system:

"Before joining the Labour Party at the age of 23 in 1977, Darling was a supporter of the International Marxist Group, the British section of the Trotskyist Fourth International."
14

Keith Lagden,

08/10/2008 04:13:11
What a shame, My bed has been limpy for the last eleven months, But oh boy is it comfortable, in the light of day today.

The banks deserve everything that comes their way.

Screw them
15

W Smith,

Middle East 08/10/2008 05:26:00
#17 Jock MacSprog

After being forced into buying a house by the missus these lefties have no option but to refer to themselves as 'an ex-Marxist'.

Its all very well Karl Marx saying the individual shall not own property but our Karl doesn't have to live with the wife giving it "I want a nice house, etc,"
16

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 08/10/2008 06:57:03
Buy bank shares NOW! You'll clean up!
17

Paul Spencer,

Glasgow 08/10/2008 07:15:47
£50 billion, your and my money to bail out a crew of incompetents. Im afraid its time for Sir Fred et al to walk the plank. I am very annoyed that this £££ is going to bail out this mess, it might have been better to give the £50 billion to us, on a straight pro-rata basis thats £1000 a head. However I would have gone further and tapered this tax cut geared towards the poorer members of the country, ex city bankers with bonus's would have got nada, the money would have made it way bank into the banking system as folk pay down debt thus bolstering banks balance sheets, on top of that the government could have then regulated these shiesters, outlawing outrageous bonus's and making certain methods of trading illegal. As it is we have chucked good money after bad and are in a bigger mess than we were a year ago. Its time for a change and that means that Mr Broon and others also walk the plank
18

Angleland Isover,

08/10/2008 07:16:33
The same happened with Darien. B.O.S. founded then the english find a way to bankrupt Scotland, union secured.
19

Nevsky,

Moscow 08/10/2008 07:24:08
5 Rufus#

Here is today's good news from Norway:

'Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg thinks that the 2009 budget proposal will maintain full employment, an ordered economy and the continued development of the welfare state'

While Britain heads into recession and billions of public money wasted; little Norway aims for full employment with little effect on the banking sector.

Welcome to bankrupt Britain!
20

TommyKaye,

UK 08/10/2008 07:37:48
If Sir Fred Goodwin is brave enough to resign why cant an unelected prime minister who has guided us into this mess not resign GO GORDON GO AND QUICK
21

TommyKaye,

UK 08/10/2008 07:39:05
#15 your posts are just nonsense don't you have anything to say !
22

Monstro,

Struggling to believe 08/10/2008 07:40:54
This is the former Iron Chancellor, who refuses to consider providing an inflationary pay rise for hundreds of thousands of public employees running the country, but who can find an obscene amount to shore up bankrupt (both morally and financially) institutions who have run their organisations poorly and taken too many risks with our money!

Look at the salary paid to the exec with Lehmans in the US, the salaries of three or four of these people per year would pay for the additional pay bill for the whole of the UK public sector!!!!

What the he11 is going on and why are we agreeing to shore up these institutions with public cash in order to perpetuate this system???
23

Nevsky,

Moscow 08/10/2008 08:09:18
There is the possibility that if the government had taken the same action that the Irish have taken in guaranteeing savings that this huge ammount of money might not have been needed.

Just as Salmond said the bankers are now calling for the guarantee to be put in place; if it was done last week it might have saved billions.

Read today's times for a slating of Darling and how he has dithered over what to do!
24

Boy Wonder,

08/10/2008 08:16:36
"Bantering of goods", Chuckles??

Did you perhaps mean "bartering"???
25

Ubermensch,

Abu Dhabi 08/10/2008 08:24:55
Norway and Denmark are keen to jump in and Save the Icelandic economy. They have already offered 40bn to USA.

Interesting how a country of 4 million people and less infrastructure than Scotland can effectively prop up OTHER peoples economies never mind their own whilst at the same time not touching their pension fund money.



26

Calvinist,

08/10/2008 08:26:27
Until last night I did not believe in the death penalty. However after watching the interview with millionaire parasite banker Sir George Mathewson, I have changed my mind. Here is a man who blames everyone but himself for the mess we are in and furthermore he wants us, The British Tax-payer, to bail out the RBS which he got into this situation in the first place. If there was any justice at all in this world Mathewson and his ilk would be put on trial for treason.
27

Ubermensch,

08/10/2008 08:27:49
What I would like to see is one of the UAE Sheiks to BUY America for a couple of trillian Dollar! save their economy and own them. That would be a real laugh!


28

Sile,

08/10/2008 08:30:16
Newsky#
The main reason Norway does so well [apart from producing oil] she is not in the E.S.S.R. we all blame our politicos, or each other, take closure of the post offices look up the directive and you will see that its european ideology to make us a cog in a world power. just look up what we put into this marxist lookalike. we cannot make a move wqithout the consent of the undemocratic gravy train riders in Brussels..

And I said all along it was the trams..
29

Ubermensch,

08/10/2008 08:32:54
36

This is very true... They have all the rights and benefits of the EU members, but dont have to adhere to them... although... usually EU follows Norways lead in terms of things such as smoking ban etc.
30

Paul in Oz,

Helensburgh 08/10/2008 08:47:56
So 50 billion it is then?

So there are banks failing in the USA, Germany, France, UK, Belgium, Spain and Iceland.

Is this really the fault of the UK government or a symptom a a sustaned and global economic correction?

Also if Scotland had been independant would we have been able to afford ten billion pounds in order to bail out RBS and HBOS?

This is not a political question about independance it is simply a question of whether we would be in the unenviable position of having to borrow off the Ruskies too?
31

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 08/10/2008 08:49:09
24 Nevski
You should be congratulating Brown and Darling. The measures they have taken are very similar to those taken by the Norwegian govt. in the wake of their banking crisis in 1991.
32

Paul in Oz,

Helensburgh 08/10/2008 08:50:46
Oh and Norway bail out ideland where is there that on the new, i see it is the ruskies who have offered not the norwegians
33

Salmond Rushdie,

08/10/2008 08:54:24
#29 Nevsky

There is also the possibility that Greece, Ireland and Iceland are about to go pop by carrying a liability for the savings guarantees that is many times the GDP of each economy. Each of these countries have done this because they believe at the end of the day that the EU will bail them out if the guarantees are called in. It is the unavailability of credit that has resulted in the banks not being able to lend, together with historical dodgy lending. At least Darling has provided share capital to the banks, allowing them to lend. He also bought these shares at a knock-down price. Good chance the taxpayer will benefit from this over the medium to long term.



34

57vintage,

Keith 08/10/2008 08:59:08
#17 "Before joining the Labour Party at the age of 23 in 1977, Darling was a supporter of the International Marxist Group, the British section of the Trotskyist Fourth International."

You'll need to provide an impeccable source for that, comrade. Wikipedia is as reliable as a "Free by 93" promise that nearly delivered my constituency into tory hands in 1992,

When darling was SRC President at the University of Aberdeen in the mid-70s, he was very critical of the hard left and was regarded as a pink-tinged pragmatist by the politicos who got off on such things.
35

Patrick O'Reilly,

Coatbridge 08/10/2008 09:04:05
So now it's the government's fault, is it? The arrogance of the "qualified economists" who run these "banks" is astounding.
36

Patrick O'Reilly,

Coatbridge 08/10/2008 09:05:48
Where are the spivs and speculators now, Alex?
37

Ubermensch,

08/10/2008 09:06:24
40

Its in the Norwegian News. Not in the british papers cause they are more concerned about bailing themselves out.

They have offered help should they need it. Sweden and Denmark and Norway have already offered 500 million each in order to help the economy in Iceland.
38

Ubermensch,

08/10/2008 09:08:51
#38

If Norway can do it why wouldnt Scotland be able to do it had they been independent?
39

Marian,

08/10/2008 09:22:18
Quote from Guido fawkes website today:-

"The big lie that we will hear this morning is that taxpayer's money will be "invested" and the government may even make a profit - like the Swedes did in the nineties. Except the Swedes didn't make a profit, Swedish taxpayers lost billions. One bank out of over 114 Swedish banks refused the deal. SEB, Sweden's largest bank controlled by the Wallenberg family, arranged a private sector recapitalisation and returned to profitability within a year. So could the UK banks. British taxpayers are going to get screwed like they have never been screwed before."
40

Marian,

08/10/2008 09:23:02
Economists were predicting at least three years ago that the UK was heading for bust because of the quicksand of debt that had accumulated under Gordon Brown of New Labour's hands off approach to managing the excesses of UK financial institutions, but Gordon Brown took no notice and did nothing.

Gordon Brown and Alastair Darling obviously don't have a clue on what to do as every day they have nothing to say in response except sound-bites such as "I'm just getting on with my job" and "we'll do whatever it takes" every time they are challenged to take actions to restore confidence in the UK economy.

Historically every time there has been a Labour Government their term of office has ended due to an economic crisis created by their own genetic instinct to over-tax and spend as if there is going to be no tomorrow.

How much more does it take for voters to wake up to the fact that New Labour is a busted flush?
41

MacMhuirich,

Ljubljana 08/10/2008 09:39:33
#46

Even if Scotland was independent and received 100% of the UK's North Sea oil revenues, Norway would still be a lot richer because:
- its oil and gas deposits are much bigger;
- the country as whole is a lot bigger - surface area substantially bigger than the UK with a smaller population than Scotland, so it has much more natural resources in absolute terms and per inhabitant;
- It does not have high legacy costs resulting from the decline of traditional heavy industry (iron, steel, coal etc) and the resulting poverty;
- It does not, I believe, have such iniquitous land ownership, a fact which has blighted Scotland's history.
42

Son of one of Stirlings finest,

Weston S Mare 08/10/2008 09:44:23
I see it only took 23 comments for it all to be the fault of the English, for gods sake change the record.
43

Destroy the Planet,

08/10/2008 09:48:04
The British Leyland of the banking world, tools down and mass walkouts by banking staff, ho ho. Technically though we, the people, can get them to do whatever we want now, dance for me banker !
44

Ubermensch,

08/10/2008 11:10:00
Norway has more land mass and a smaller population because there is not much space to populate. Mountains, ice etc. make it difficult.

Scotland has a better business infrastructure and access to UK businesses. They have more potential to become a financial centre than Norway could ever be. Edinburgh is Europe's fifth largest financial centre

Scotland is endowed with some of the best energy resources in Europe

45

Ubermensch,

08/10/2008 11:10:12
Evidence unearthed in late 2005 under the Freedom of Information Act has shown significant UK government concerns over the rising tide of Scottish Nationalism during the early part of the 1970s and the consequences that this may have had upon ownership and control over the UK's North Sea resources. A report written by the Scottish Office economist Gavin McCrone for ministers in the mid-1970s indicated that with ownership of North Sea oil, an independent Scotland would have "embarrassingly" large tax surpluses.[16][17] The report also stated that the economy of an independent Scotland, with control over the majority of UK North Sea oil revenue, would have one of the "hardest" currencies in Europe and that "for the first time since the Act Of Union was passed, it can now be credibly argued that Scotland's economic advantage lies in its repeal."
46

Scotfree,

Erskine 08/10/2008 12:15:31
"Bail-out story riles No 10

DOWNING Street yesterday made clear its disapproval at media reports that a £50 billion taxpayer-funded bail-out for the main banks was on the cards. "

The same pattern of events occurred during the HBOS crisis again manipulated by the same individuals and preceded by massive insider trading to the tune of 180million, 10 minutes prior to the announcement. We have in Great (sic) Britain a government and state which is not fit for purpose, corrupt at every level from top to bottom and supported by national broadcasters and media who are themselves as corrupt as those they pretend to report upon. The only reason this does not result in a collapse in the state from a flight of international capital is that they know in the end that it is supported by the very real wealth and resource of over 100 years of oil reserves off the coast of Scotland. The loss of Scotland is unimaginable to England and the city of London, without it the game is up.
It should be noted that the government could easily pull the same trick on the energy companies by limiting the price of gas and electricity thereby causing the share price to collapse and nationalising them at a massive discount bringing real benefit to ordinary people. However it is more important to gain control of the Scottish banks to (hopefully) keep the Scots in their place. Albion will rue the day they tried this tactic. Scots should note that a mere 6 months of oil revenue would buy the entire British banking sector.
47

Son of one of Stirlings finest,

Weston S Mare 08/10/2008 12:48:01
Scotfree 54,

Scientists predicted mad cow disease, B S E , would emerge in a small number of the populace, you are evidently one of them, I urge you, do the decent thing offer your body for medical experimentation, and help save the rest of us,
48

Ubermensch,

08/10/2008 13:25:55
#55

The reason EU lets norway have rights is because they think Norway will join (which will never happen) and because they make money out of having such close ties with Norway. I would love to see them try to force norway to implement some of the laws that they make other EU countries implement.

The only laws that are implemented in both EU and Norway are ones that either Norway agrees with or that Norway introduced decades before the EU did.

Norway will help Iceland (unlike Brown who threatens Legal action against them..) :
http://www.dn.no/forsiden/statsbudsjettet/article1506553.ece?jgo=dne - Sorry its a Norwegian Link

Norway HAVE helped Iceland :
http://www.stratfor.com/memberships/116680/sitrep/iceland_neighbors_offer_loan_bail_out_krona


Norway decide to offer a billion to Brazil to save the rainforest... why not during a crisis? :
http://www.norwaypost.no/cgi-bin/norwaypost/imaker?id=193858
49

Ubermensch,

08/10/2008 13:31:53
Oh, by the way,

Russia are NOT bailing Iceland out, but they will consider helping if they ask for help.

50

Rufus T. Firefly,

08/10/2008 13:40:47
#57 Thank God for Norway. They are helping everybody.

What a country!
51

Ubermensch,

08/10/2008 13:57:34
#59

Just think... people could have been saying that about Scotland.....

I wish Norway would donate 1bn to rid Scotland of the Neds though
52

Ugly George,

08/10/2008 14:50:30
54 Scotfree

"Scots should note that a mere 6 months of oil revenue would buy the entire British banking sector"

really! You must be confusing revenue with something else

Total UK oil/gas revenue for 2007/08 is £7.8bn

So 6 months revenue = £3.9bn

Cost of partial nationalisation of just 4 UK banks is £50bn.

You have got your information hopelessly wrong
53

moltke,

geordieland 08/10/2008 15:14:09
It occurs to me that the problem is not the trams, rather it is the lack of trams.
54

Scotfree,

Erskine 08/10/2008 16:52:07
To all the English/Unionists who have spent the last 30 years as agents in the theft and betrayal of Scotland’s wealth much as you are to be despised I should point out that tax revenue (you include only a small part of this in your estimate) is not the same as total revenue of the oil being taken out the waters which, given the increase in the oil price is in excess of 100 billion a year. Recent estimates show over 100 years oil reserves. Without this there would be a massive flight from sterling and the bungling incompetence of the current regime would be even more apparent. The fact that they choose to manipulate this crisis for political ends only shows what a bunch of low lives they and their choir of sympathisers actually are.
55

PJ Walker,

East Lothian 08/10/2008 17:35:01
RBS will very soon be history. Share price down to 90p

Nothing to do with the English, just an imbecile called Goodwin, who must take all the blame
56

Son of one of Stirlings finest,

Weston Super Mare 08/10/2008 19:34:23
64#
Dear Scotfree, I can't make up my mind whether you were put on this earth for our amusement, or if you are just depriving a village somewhere of a perfectly good idiot. However it is all academic, now that uncle Gordon has led us to the broad sunlit uplands. I am going out tonight for a pint or two, and hope for everyones sake, Scots Welsh, English, that a nightmare has been averted. using the narrow bigotry of race as a scapegoat does you no credit , my father was a proud Scot who lived his adult life in England, and enjoyed the friendship, and respect of everyone who knew him. He taught us the values of his Scotland, those values are totally at odds with what is being done in Scotlands name, by a small minority of rabid nationalists.If the concept of a United Kingdom is so unbearable to a majority of Scots, then obviously it must be addressed, but I hope any seperation is brought about harmoniously, because I believe that Scotland is held in genuine affection by most of the people of England, including the many thousands of Scots who live in complete harmony here.
57

Hermann,

08/10/2008 20:02:23
#67 Well said! One of the few sensible postings.
58

Scotfree,

Erskine 08/10/2008 21:33:53
#67 It is noticeable, that with no knowledge, or background of myself, you choose not to comment on the substance of what I have said but seek rather to make judgements on my personality. This is typical of the patronising colonialist/imperialist Southern Counties type that you represent. Unfortunately the sun has set on your Empire and your last colonial outpost in Scotland is no longer going to be available to you. We nationalists do not seek to interfere in the affairs of England as you seek by right to interfere in Scotland. Scots live in harmony in all nations throughout the world as they generally seek to bring the best to each of these nations. The fact they do so in England is no argument for English rule in Scotland, which we nationalist (in common with nationalists in every corner in the earth once ruled by England) seek to end.
59

,

08/10/2008 21:54:07
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60

Son of one of Stirlings finest,

Weston S Mare 08/10/2008 23:36:38
Dear Scotfree, 69# The world is moving on,soon only the Scots, and Robert Mugabwe will be blaming their failures on the English.
61

,

09/10/2008 00:29:15
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