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French fume over smoke ban



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Published Date: 02 January 2008
SMOKERS were savouring their last cigarettes over morning coffee in cafés across France yesterday, with café owners predicting financial ruin as a smoking ban took effect.
French officials said they would not enforce the new measure – aimed at clearing the air in the country's notoriously hazy cafés, bars, restaurants and night clubs – until today.

Smokers at Paris' Café Au Depart were taking advantage of the 24-
hour reprieve to keep the air there as thick as usual, although the mood was notably downbeat.

"It's really a shame," said David Fossey, 32.

"It's the end of a way of life," he said as he stubbed out what he said would be his last – or perhaps second-to-last – cigarette ever.

"I had intended to quit for a while now, but this seals the deal," Fossey said.

Others were more defiant.

Jean-Pierre Aiglement, 55, drinking coffee before starting work as a waiter at the Au Depart, said he wouldn't be "chased out on to the pavement," adding "I'll smoke where I please."

"I don't know, it won't be the same at all," said Alain Filipetti, an electrician, as he nursed an "express" and dragged on a cigarette in a café near the Paris stock exchange. "I've always started the day with a coffee and a cigarette."

Under the measure, those caught lighting up in inside face a 63 fine (£46), while owners who turn a blind eye to smoking in their establishments face a 135 fine. Restaurateurs complain the ban forces them into the uncomfortable role of enforcers and insist it will cause a major decline in business. Smokers who light up with a countertop morning coffee; on the dance floor or after a meal make up a huge customer base.

"Once they start enforcing the ban, this place will be empty," Aiglement said.

In few nations is smoking as much a part of national identity as it is France: A dense haze shrouded the Left Bank cafés where celebrated thinkers Jean-Paul Sartre and Simone de Beauvoir once held court, and there's hardly a photograph of iconic singer Serge Gainsbourg without a cigarette.

About a quarter of France's 60 million population smoke. The Health Ministry said one in two regular smokers – or some 66,000 people annually – dies of smoking-related illness here, and about 5,000 nonsmokers die from second-hand smoke.

Smoking was prohibited last year in France's workplaces, schools, airports, hospitals and other "closed and covered" public places like train stations. Restaurants and other so-called places of conviviality were given an extra 11 months to allow owners to adapt their establishments to the new rules, which permit smoking only inside special sealed chambers.

Restaurateurs have railed against the chambers, which they insist are prohibitively expensive and urged unsuccessfully for more flexibility in the new measure.

While many French smokers see the ban as an infringement on their rights, others, like Fossey, regard it as an incentive to kick the habit.

In the countdown to the total ban, the government redoubled its efforts to encourage smokers to quit. A travelling campaign with anti-smoking experts visited seven cities in November and December.

Germans huff and puff, butt…

WITH the ban, France joins the swelling ranks of European lands – including Italy, Belgium, Spain, Britain and Ireland – which have enacted broad anti-smoking laws.

In neighbouring Germany, eight states launched partial smoking bans in restaurants and bars yesterday.

A group representing German restaurant and bar- owners filed a challenge to the country's supreme court against the new anti-smoking laws – which took effect in Bavaria, Berlin, Brandenburg, Bremen, Hamburg, Mecklenburg-Western Pom-erania, Saxony-Anhalt and Schleswig-Holstein.

The details vary from state to state, though the German smoking laws are generally less restrictive than the French measures.

A ban on smoking in German trains, other public transport and federal buildings began in September.

Almost a third of Germans smoke. Restaurants and pubs fought hard against regulations on smoking, in part due to the country's Nazi past.

Smoking became a cherished post-war mark of freedom and tolerance after a crackdown by Hitler's Nazi regime in the 1930s, and there was a reluctance among German politicians to force through a ban.



The full article contains 710 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 01 January 2008 10:08 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Tobacco
 
1

weeshooie1,

Australia 02/01/2008 04:55:54
Heeheeheeee, welcome to the real world. The clubs and pubs out here in Oz have lost their character because of the 'No Smoking' laws, as well as a large part of their clientel, but at least they have built smoking sections on, where they are able. The only problems are, they are all outside. Some of the larger clubs have also put slot machines out there so that they can continue to milk the members while they have a smoke :O(
2

kimomac,

UK 02/01/2008 09:09:54
The percentage of people in favour of a smoking ban is questionable. I have never encountered a pollster in a pub or restaurant or even in a shop for that matter. Have they just polled people who never frequent these establishments ? Had a poll been conducted in pubs prior to the UK ban I suspect that the results would have been different. The majority of people that I know who used to use pubs regularly were smokers, many of them just stay at home and drink now. I suspect that the same may be true in France.
3

Profit Seeker,

Get real and ban em! 02/01/2008 09:29:47
Revenues at many Scottish venues in fact went up since the ban. The numbers in favour are overwhelming. Get the facts right people. Zut alors!

If some want to smoke themselves to death then that is their right I guess. They do not however have the right to subject the rest of us to that risk. I am all for freedom of choice but non smokers need to have the freedom to choose too. Only a ban achives that. If you must have the weed feel free to smoke yourselves to death in the privacy of your own home folks!
4

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 02/01/2008 09:42:58
#2 Kimomac

You're kidding yourself. It's an absolute pleasure to sit in the pub nowadays and not be subjected to others' foul smoke. If you want to kill yourself, bash on, but I don't see why the rest of us should have had to put up with it. And it's a bonus not to have to put everything you've been wearing in the washing basket after a night out. Now all we have to put up with are the disgusting piles of fag-ends smokers seem to find it acceptable to drop at their lazy a***s in every available doorway.
5

Profit Seeker,

Edinburgh 02/01/2008 09:56:45
I am with you Draco, well put. Lets start issuing tickets for littering when they drop the fag-ends everywhere.
6

Methalions,

02/01/2008 10:10:53
I continue to smoke. Begone pleasure fascists like Draco & Profit Seeker.
7

Royc,

02/01/2008 10:21:29
It would have been perfectly feasible to have specific smoking areas in restaurants and pubs, with smoke extraction etc. Catering staff have many smokers in their ranks, so the 'passive smoking by staff' was always a bit of a thin case. But no, the health service, (wishing to save money, not for altruistic reasons of health), backed by the insurance industry (looking to save money on claims) and the PC Labourites (expressing another of their dodgy moral certainties), got to have their way. It just needed a lot of PC people like 3 and 4 above - the ones who always start 'I'm all for freedom of choice, but...' - to give it a figleaf of public support.

They are not in favour of freedom of choice at all of course, they believe in moral majorities - a most dangerous place for all the minorities that together make up a society.

Smaller rural pubs are seeing the effects; 180 have closed down in rural Ireland and Scotland will follow. Many restaurants have fewer customers as smokers stay at home. But don't worry Draco, there are little thought police guys in anoraks swelling the state apparatus fining people £50 for dropping their cigarette ends. You guys should love that.

Funny thing is, there are just as many smokers after the ban and smoking remains legal. So this is the state just going through the motions for low rather than high motivess.
8

Profit Seeker,

Edinburgh 02/01/2008 10:21:32
Methalions #6. People like Draco and I are not pleasure facists at all. I for one am all for pleasure and a bit of vice too. We all have the right to our own versions of pleasure BUT we just do not have the right to force the side effects on others do we?

Feel free to smoke yourself into an early grave Methalions. That's your right but just do not ask me or others to have to breath in your passive smoke mate.
9

english charlie,

suffolk 02/01/2008 10:21:45
I went down to my local yesterday evening to watch a football match on TV. There was just me and the landlord and it was lovely to watch the match without a load of noise. I had to leave the landlord on his own several times to go outside for a fag.
10

mr chips,

02/01/2008 10:31:23
3 Profit Seeker, you spew "Revenues at many Scottish venues in fact went up since the ban. The numbers in favour are overwhelming. Get the facts right people. Zut alors!
73% of smokers and non smokers did not want a complete ban,idiot.This was a result of a numpty lib/lab scottish exececutive poll. So get your facts right before coming on here and spouting your pc lying pish.
11

Andrah,

Embrugh 02/01/2008 11:00:24
Very simple. It called progress. Just as we no longer chuck our waste matter into the street from a pot as they did in medieval Edinburgh, it has become unaccceptable for people to discharge their hazardous and irritant filth all over their fellow drinkers and diners.
12

Profit Seeker,

Edinburgh 02/01/2008 11:10:53
Ooo Mr Chips. Your well argued and adult contribution to the debate is impresive. A clear example of your intellect me thinks. Well done you!
13

Livingstone,

02/01/2008 13:00:33
6 Methalions

I smoked for 15 years, and you do not smoke for pleasure, you smoke to fulfill your addiction. The stench of fags is awful, a smoker has no idea how bad the smell is. I quit long before the ban and after stopping by the pub my clothes would wreak of smoke the next day.

Since Ex smokers like myself have the smarts and discipline to stop smoking, it makes the weaker more addicted smokers like Methalions and others say things like “smoking is pleasurable” or “smoking adds character to a restaurant” “Banning smoking will drive away business”
14

Methalions,

02/01/2008 14:12:12
Livingstone & others.

I know..I'm a bad person. I've been smoking now for 40 years. Had the anti brigade said that they hated the stink of tobacco on their clothes, I'm with you 100%. I smoke only in the house and in designated areas and I have no problem with this. I wouldn't dream of asking my non-smoking friends if I could light up in their house.

Here in Spain it's a bit different. Bars / restaurants etc under 100m2 could decide themselves if they wanted their premises to be smoking or non smoking. Most decided to remain smoking bars. There are however such a plethora of bars here, that non-smokers have a choice. They may go to "no smoking" bars, or put up with the stink and join their mates in "smoking allowed" bars.

Premises over 100m2 could only allow smoking if they put in the proper filtration system and isolated the smoking areas from the non smoking areas. As this is extremely expensive, most opted to declare themselves smoke-free zones. These premises are losing custom.

The "law" is relaxed for weddings, funerals and 1st communions. It is assumed that everyone will want to smoke! I've been to a number of receptions in Spain, and after the meal the groom will come round and offer a cigar to all male guests. Females are given a small pack of 4 cigarettes. The cigars and cigarettes come in boxes with the details of the bride & groom.

Non smokers at my table immediately lit up. Weird no?
15

Methalions,

02/01/2008 14:16:13
Och Andrah. Give us a break. Deaths caused by the other "legal" drug alcohol kills many more than cigarettes. It also - unlike cigarettes - breaks up marriages and puts peoples' jobs at risk. We have junkies littering the streets and they're given methadone. We have AA for the seriously addicted.

Crime is rising daily, but hey...let's go for the easy target. We'll get the smokers. You complain about our irritant filth. It's still legal mate.
16

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 02/01/2008 14:35:09
#7 Royc

That you're quite happy to live in an environment that resembles a sh**ehouse thanks to some smokers and their cigarette ends, says more about you than it does me. Thought police I ain't. And that I have no desire to inflict my sources of pleasure or lifestyle on anyone else does not, by any sensible definition, make me selfish.
17

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 02/01/2008 14:42:42
Just a thought for those of you worried about the drop in revenue for publicans. Why not reintroduce dog fights and badger baiting in pub cellars? I believe there was a similar drop in profits when they were outlawed. Perhaps a reversal of this legislation would encourage disappointed smokers back to the pubs.
18

Methalions,

02/01/2008 14:45:52
Draco

Are you losing the plot? This bit here "happy to live in an environment that resembles a sh**ehouse thanks to some smokers and their cigarette ends" is way OTT.

Cigarette ends = $hitehouse? I'm more offended by discarded pizza boxes, fish & chip paper, chewing gum stuck to the pavement, dog$hite, beer cans etc. THAT makes our towns a $hitehouse.

Fag ends? Big deal.
19

Methalions,

02/01/2008 14:47:35
_____________
|_|__________|~~~~

Smokin'.......
20

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 02/01/2008 15:07:19
#18 Methalions

I suspect you're not used to living the way we have to these days. Last time I was in Spain the place was spotless. Yes, you smokers add to the pigsty that is modern Edinburgh. You confirm what I susoect, you don't see fag ends as litter.Next time you're leaving the airport, have a look at what your fellow smokers have left behind them. It really welcomes you to Scotland with a touch of class.
21

Methalions,

02/01/2008 15:42:21
Draco

"Next time you're leaving the airport, have a look at what your fellow smokers have left behind them."

Put in a few ashtrays et voilá.

I am happy to accept that we ADD to the pigsty and that we're not the root cause!

ps Sweetie papers outnumber fag-ends...the LAST time I was back.
22

Methalions,

02/01/2008 15:43:15
Draco

ps..I've only been here a few months. Surely he country hasn't changed THAT much.
23

Methalions,

02/01/2008 15:45:19
Draco (God it's become a chat room again)

Fag ends & litter. If there are no ash trays, where do we put the dog-ends? A waste-paper bin is not sensible as a fire would probably ensue.

ps Smoking is STILL legal.
24

Covert Action,

02/01/2008 16:24:36
et's be honest, smokers are losers. Every one of them whines about wanting to stop. The problem is that they are too weak-willed so they stand about outside puffing on their US-multinational poison sticks like the schemies they are. Like I said. Losers. With a capital L for lung cancer. A particularly horrible death.
25

Paula,

02/01/2008 16:28:17
I've never understood the whole desire to smoke. It tastes foul, you spend lots of money so you stink - lets face it you can smell a smoker before you see them, either the smoke or the gallon of perfume they use to try and disguise it (and fail!) If you go into the home of a smoker there is a horrible smell that goes on your clothes, in your hair.

You get lines, a pinched dogs-bum mouth. It is the first thing you think of when you wake up, you slack off work leaving the non-smokers to take up your work as you demand time to go outside for your habit (should we get a non-smoking break then?) Without one you get crotchety, with one you are selfish.

And you pay for this? I just don't get it, thankfully. (And both my parents are heavy smokers so I know of what I talk!)
26

Red Etin,

02/01/2008 16:28:23
"Not smoking"'ll nae dae onybody ony herm. Remember (some of ye) when people smoked in the cinemas. They had wee ash trays at every seat. Member when people smoked like chimleys on domestic and international flights? Member (says he 10 years fae noo) when people smoked in bars and restaurants? Member (hunner year fae noo) when people smoked?
27

Livingstone,

02/01/2008 16:31:04
20 Draco Was a Wimp

I go to Spain often. Warm, cheap, and beautiful women. The reason it's spotless is that the streets are full of workers tidying up after everyone. The streets are full of broom pushers during the day and in the early morning before the sun comes up the street and sidewalk cleaning trucks are out in full force. During the week there are sections of Madrid at times of the day your eyes burn from all the smoke, it’s ridiculous.

28

Methalions,

02/01/2008 16:32:34
#24 Mr Covert Action - the caring sharing one.

1 I don't whine about wanting to stop.
2 I probably am weak-willed.
3 Schemie? You obnoxious pompous toerag.
4 Loser? Possibly, but a caring loser.

You my friend are simply a tube. If smoking is an addiction (like alcohol, drugs, gambling) you should show some compassion to people who don't have such a full and satisfying life as you have.

If we all stopped tomorrow, we'd need an extra 5p on income tax to pay for the shortfall. Are you willing to pay? Thought not.

(...taking a break to light a cigarette and to contemplate my sad life.....)

ps....this "schemie" has private health insurance. I wouldn't want to be a burden to you.

Begone pontificating prat.
29

Methalions,

02/01/2008 16:36:53
...and to all the little kiddies reading this...
DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT STARTING TO SMOKE. IT'S MORONIC.

There....I've said it.

note to Paula...I look FAR younger than my years. Maybe I'm just lucky. The rest of your post is just raving.
30

Covert Action,

02/01/2008 16:39:50
#28

Watch that blood pressure fatso. Smoking isn't an addiction, nor are alcohol, drugs or gambling. Stop spouting poncey self-pity theory.

I thought you lived in Spain? Who cares whether Spanish taxes go up because you stop smoking.
31

Methalions,

02/01/2008 16:48:53
Covert being overt

My weight is perfect. My blood pressure is perfect. My recent medical showed me to be in tip-top condition.

If you are not clever enough to understand addictions, then you really shouldn't post. It shows you to be not only arrogant, but a bit lacking in education.

Drugs aren't an addiction? Alcohol isn't an addiction? Where did you dig that one up from?

Regarding your last piece of nonsense, yes I currently live in Spain. I pay my taxes in the UK, so when you say "Who cares whether Spanish taxes go up because you stop smoking", it isn't really relevant. I was just concerned that if taxes did rise, you'd be too skint to buy the next game for your Gameboy.
32

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 02/01/2008 16:49:38
#29 Meths

I suspect the haze in front of the mirror is convincing you you look younger than you are. It's like Vaseline on a camera lens! Like I say, as long as you bin your butts , feel free to abuse your body. It's yours to abuse and it's still a democracy (just).
33

Methalions,

02/01/2008 16:52:42
32 Draco

Thanks Draco for your first sentence. I'm still wiping coffee off the monitor...nice one.

....maybe of course I'm a non-smoker just sticking up for the little guy.....

ps..I'm glad you don't abuse YOUR body. Watch these eyes now.
34

Covert Action,

02/01/2008 16:54:02
#31

yawn.
35

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 02/01/2008 16:57:49
# 33 Meths

Any Onanistic tendencies I have are never pursued in the pub and do not involve Edinburgh City Council cleaning up after me!
36

Methalions,

02/01/2008 17:20:14
34
Covert Action,
02/01/2008 16:54:02
#31

"yawn."

You're probably right. It's just that it's raining here and I'm killing time.
37

Methalions,

02/01/2008 17:23:39
Draco

See that's the thing Draco. You can argue your case. Covert though is just at the learning stage.

I totally agree regarding the mess of fag-ends. All litter is a national disgrace.

...and on that note, all dogs should be destroyed if they $hit on the pavement.

ps to Covert Action man......instead of yawning at my posts, just scroll past them. It'll save your typing hand for your next little wankfest.
38

Covert Action,

02/01/2008 17:36:07
#37

Jeez you really are a loser. Why don't you do something constructive like learn some pidgin Spanish instead of hanging around here looking for "banter".
39

Donnie,

UK 02/01/2008 17:47:11
Whether smoking takes place on private property should be the owners decision and no one elses, not the smoker, not the non smoker and definitely not governments. You may dislike smoking, dislike the smell, but you have to stand back and look at what has happened here, Labour have banned a legal product from being used on private premises, no one in their right mind would support such a move, you may detest tobacco but you should fight for your freedom in every way
40

Methalions,

02/01/2008 17:49:13
#38
Covert Action

"Jeez you really are a loser. Why don't you do something constructive like learn some pidgin Spanish instead of hanging around here looking for "banter"."

A loser? Because I'm here? You're here ya dolt.
I speak Spanish fluently, so the pidgin variety wouldn't be of much use, but thanks for your suggestion.

(I'm hanging around 'cos the rain's on)






























































;-)

41

whateverthename,

Avignon 02/01/2008 17:49:55
Don't remember the last time I heard about 999 getting flooded by smokers. neither can I remember going home after a packed of embassy and kicking the wife. There again it's dead easy to ban smoking It's another game plan for the drink.
talk about double standards
42

Covert Action,

02/01/2008 19:07:38
#40

Only here because I tuned into the Internet to watch the OF match and discover that it has been cancelled...
43

Methalions,

02/01/2008 21:16:11
Covert

Over and out. Catch you anon, but preferably NOT on threads about smoking. Cheers anyway and enjoy the new year.
44

David from New Mills,

U.K. 02/01/2008 23:21:47
Simple solution to all this conflict of interest, is for smokers to wear a form of extended space helmet stretching down as far as their arms, so that they can smoke happily, keeping the fug and fumes to themselves, and not distressing others. Should be ideal, as long as they can cope with the build up of their own effluence, and still see where they're going.
45

Livingstone,

02/01/2008 23:29:32
44 David from New Mills

Perfect !!!!!
46

David from New Mills,

U.K. 02/01/2008 23:41:42
#45,Livingstone.
Yes but would they be selfless enough to continue using them?
47

Iain Inverness,

02/01/2008 23:44:14
And all based on the passive smoking kills lie!

That's why these laws are passed, not because people don't like the smell or sight of smoking like so many of the above posters whom, it would seem. are gloating at people who now have to smoke outside.

Since it is now being accepted that the whole reason for banning smoking in public places was wrong because it had no basis in scientific fact, I wonder why these countries are now falling for the lies too?

Hopefully it wont be long until they catch up with the lies.
48

Nancy "Stretch" Pelosi,

San Francisco 03/01/2008 01:44:07
47 Iain

I can smell those nasty cigarettes even when I'm driving, some idiot could be smoking in his car several blocks in front of me and I can still smell them smoking, it's disgusting.


49

Nancy "Stretch" Pelosi,

San Francisco 03/01/2008 01:51:43
47 Iain

And they need to pass new laws increasing the distance between a public building or business that a smoker can smoke to 300 yards. There is nothing worse than having to walk past smokers outside of a building or having to smell a smoker who just smoked. I was in a small beauty shop the other day and a woman walked in who had obviously just got done smoking and she stunk up the entire shop. If she had to walk 300 yards after her last puff maybe it would not have stunk as bad.
50

Bend Over,

03/01/2008 04:04:32
All the longest lived people in the world were smokers

"Jeanne Louise Calment February 21, 1875 – August 4, 1997) was a French woman who reached the longest confirmed lifespan in history at 122 years and 164 days She was also a smoker and only quit when she was 117 years old.[2] Her fondness for sweets, like chocolate, also continued until the age of 119. She was the last recognized surviving person of the 1870s.
"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_Calment


nudge, nudge , wink , wink, the Government doesn't really care about your health, thats why they lie about smoking and inject your children with Mercury, Formaldehyde and Monkey Kidneys in vaccines, Allow Asparatame (Ant poison) to be used as a sweetener in thousands of food products, Fluoride (toxic waste) dumped in the water supply, and many more poisons to be used on us. But hey don't worry, just stop smoking amd you'll be just fine.
51

Rollo Tommasi,

03/01/2008 09:08:23
Bend Over (50): If you want to know how smoking affects the lives of most of us, check this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15213107?dopt=Abstract. The headline news is that, if you're a lifelong smoker, you can expect to live around 10 YEARS LESS than if you were a lifelong non-smoker or a smoker who'd quit by the time they were 40.
52

David from New Mills,

U.K. 03/01/2008 09:57:37
#47, Iain Inverness.
"like so many of the above posters whom, it would seem. are gloating at people who now have to smoke outside."
Probably more accurate to say "who are indifferent to the addiction of those who are obliged to smoke outside, as long as they can make their way past them without having to go through a curtain of their fumes."

53

David from New Mills,

U.K. 03/01/2008 10:01:43
#39, Donnie,UK.
Simple solution is to delicense the premises then all restrictions will no longer apply. Donnie and his ilk can then do as they please, tin hats and all.
54

,

03/01/2008 11:04:20
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
55

,

03/01/2008 14:44:34
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
56

Chuckles,

now in London 03/01/2008 14:45:30
Simple solution Dave53 is let the owners decide!!
57

,

03/01/2008 18:55:07
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
58

David from New Mills,

U.K. 03/01/2008 19:02:21
#56,Chuckles,now in London.
Trouble is, they've blown the option, so young Carlo(s)/Chuckles Rossi and others will just have to freeze and bear it.
P.S. é is Alt +130.
Moi, je préfère la légalité! (è, ça, c'est Alt + 138)
59

Mahmud Ahnadinejad,

Iran 04/01/2008 20:18:27
I wish more westerners smoked, the more money they spend on health care the better.
60

english charlie,

suffolk 05/01/2008 11:43:00
Mahmud. You may be developing nuclear weapons, but our hospitals are developing deadly germs.
61

Donart/NZ,

Noo Zealand 31/01/2008 01:52:44
Cervical cancer is unknown among communities of chaste females (nuns etc.) - Now that we have taken care of smokers when are we going to ban sex!!!!!!!!

 

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