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Clinton shaken by confident Obama



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Published Date: 28 February 2008
THE 20th Democratic debate played this week to big audiences, serving mainly to highlight the huge change in fortunes between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama since they first crossed swords last April.
Back then it was Mrs Clinton who made the running, as the Democrats lined up in South Carolina. With ratings of 41 per cent, double those of Mr Obama, she seemed near-certain to win both candidacy and presidency.

The picture told the story: Mrs Clinton, the only woman, stood with the seven male challengers surrounding her like courtiers.

Her answers were assured, the only hiccup coming when fellow candidate John Edwards asked her to apologise for having voted in favour of the Iraq invasion.

"It was a sincere vote based on the information available to me," she said.

Mr Obama, by contrast, seemed then like a rabbit in the headlights, struggling to get his "change" message off the ground.

"He was so bad back in South Carolina in the summer, we sat there and half the people fell asleep," said Joe Scarborough, an NBC newscaster.

As the debates marched on through the summer Mr Obama rose in the ratings, only to fall back again with the autumn rains as Mrs Clinton hammered home her message of "experience".

On 20 December, after a dozen debates, Mrs Clinton stood at 49 per cent, Mr Obama at just 20 per cent, his critics portraying him as a dreamer.

His unexpected victory in Iowa on 3 January turned things around, and not just with the opinion polls.

In the debates that followed, eight in just two months, he began to grow in confidence. He would arrive, fresh from the latest football stadium rally, full of poise and with an encyclopedic grasp of the issues that matched the formidable Mrs Clinton.

There were bloopers, as when Mr Obama described Ronald Reagan, arch-nemesis of the Democrats, as having "changed the trajectory" of American politics.

But despite losses in New Hampshire and Nevada, Mr Obama began a slow and inexorable rise up the charts. By 1 February he was only ten points behind Mrs Clinton. Polls out now show him between six and nine points in front.

Aware that this week's debate might be the last between the two, the hosts scrapped soft questions in favour of hard- hitting punches. Each was reminded of how they had changed their minds on key issues.

For Mrs Clinton it was familiar territory; as she was jabbed on changing stances on Iraq and the North American Free Trade Agreement, and why she won't release her tax returns.

But Mr Obama also got rough treatment. Why, he was asked, did he attend a church of a pastor who was good friends with Louis Farrakhan, the Nation of Islam founder, who is infamous for antisemitic statements? Mr Obama diverted the issue, announcing he would "reject" the endorsement of Mr Farrakhan.

On Iraq, asked why he now supported funding the war, he turned the question back to Mrs Clinton's vote for the invasion, which he had opposed: "Once we had driven the bus into the ditch there were only so many ways we could get it out," he said.

The only stumble in a performance as polished as Mrs Clinton's was last April when he was asked why, having promised to take public funding for the presidential campaign itself, he was now backtracking.

If the voters noticed, they didn't object: Fully two-thirds of an NBC poll following the contest gave victory to Mr Obama.

Mrs Clinton, by contrast, was accused of whining. At one point she made a joke about at TV comedy show poking fun at her rival's media popularity. The joke fell flat and, for the third debate in a row, Mrs Clinton earned boos from the audience.

Those jeers tell their own story. In the history of these presidential debates, viewers have almost always preferred the sunshine candidate.

But this is harsh on Mrs Clinton, because of the two, she had the tougher task. With a big lead in voters, delegates and states, Mr Obama came into this debate happy to coast along. Mrs Clinton, by contrast, needed to land a knock-out punch.

The Washington Post's Chris Cilliza said: "Obama has got better as a debater."

The irony is that while Mr Obama's skills have risen, Mrs Clinton's have not fallen. She does not "lose" these debates any more than Mr Obama "wins" them, with opinion polls changing little in the days that follow. Rather, the voters themselves seem to have swung, deciding, in the space of a few short weeks, that they prefer "change" to "experience" after all.

McCAIN SWIPE OVER IRAQ

JOHN McCain, the Republican presidential hopeful, mocked Barack Obama yesterday for saying he would take action as president "if al-Qaeda is forming a base in Iraq".

He told a crowd in Tyler, Texas: "I have some news. Al-Qaeda is in Iraq. It's called 'al-Qaeda in Iraq'," drawing laughter at Mr Obama's expense.

Mr Obama responded at a rally at Ohio State University in Columbus. "I do know that al-Qaeda is in Iraq. So I have some news for John McCain," he said, adding there had been no al-Qaeda presence in Iraq until President George Bush invaded the country.

Noting that Mr McCain liked to tell audiences he would follow Osama bin Laden to the "gates of hell" to catch him, Mr Obama taunted: "All he (McCain] has done is to follow George Bush into a misguided war in Iraq."

During the Democratic presidential debate on Tuesday night, Mr Obama was asked if he would reserve the right to send US troops back into Iraq to quell an insurrection or civil war. He replied: "If al-Qaeda is forming a base in Iraq, then we will have to act in a way that secures the American homeland and our interests abroad."


The full article contains 989 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

I eat cookies wrapped in scotch tape,

28/02/2008 00:43:56
The Clintstones are a sad, sad joke.

Mr Clintstone must rue the day he "did not have sex with that woman".
2

,

28/02/2008 01:24:36
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
3

Carolyn 1,

28/02/2008 02:16:36
Obama's father was Kenyan, which means Obama is half Kenyan by heritage; he's states often of being proud of his heritage and what he has achieved, yet he never speaks of the problems in Africa or what he would do to help Kenya, or Darfur.

He seemed displeased about the Somalian photo of him, when I thought there would have been a sense of pride for him? His wife recently remarked this is the first time in her life she's proud to be an American.

Who are these people aside from being politicians? He is an eloquent speaker. He and his wife answer every question 'correctly' although the answers are smooth and sorta change depending on where he is and who's asking. Is it it just me or does anyone else think that the US is electing a narcissist to be the next president?
4

John Blackley,

Winter Garden, FL 28/02/2008 02:24:21
#3 Carolyn 1: Mmm, no. I think it's just you.
5

Esther,

28/02/2008 02:26:12
Mr Obama is the change that needs to happen in the US, eloquent and intelligent. I for one don't want Bill lurking the White House halls again, Hillary should have dumped him and she would have been in like flyne.

The photo tries to show him as a muslim that is why there has been turmoil, stupid!
6

,

28/02/2008 02:32:13
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
7

57Nomad,

california 28/02/2008 02:36:39
#3 carolyn

come on, carolyn, you can accuse john mccain of being a lot of things but being a narcissist isn't one of them.
8

Carolyn 1,

28/02/2008 02:49:41
What about Obama spent 12 years in Indonesia but never speaks about helping Indonesia? Doesn't he care about where he grew up and the people who were once his friends?
He talks at great length about getting out of Iraq but expanding the effort in Afghanistan, because Bush dropped the ball there. Obama heads the Senate committee on Afghanistan but has never held a meeting. None in 14 months.
He 's says he hasn't had time because he's been running a campaign. That says to me he doesn't care about the US troops or NATO or Afghanistan, otherwise he would have taken the time from the campaign and done the job he was appointed to do.

If he can't and or won't do the job as a senator, why will he be different after elected president?
Why can't we ask these questions without being called bigots or stupid?

Esther, it wasn't a Muslim outfit, it was traditional Somalian.
If there's been turmoil about it where you live, it hasn't been here in the US.

Hillary got hammered for not releasing her work product while she was First Lady, which doesn't have to be released, and can only be cleared through security . On the Obama side, his wife wrote a thesis in Yale, knocking Yale and racism, the college has sealed this thesis until after the election. But that is fine.
Why is it fine for the Obamas to not release personal writing but Hillary must?
Yea right. I forgot, I can't ask that question either.
9

Carolyn 1,

28/02/2008 02:56:10
Hey Nomad,
a little optimistic, aren't you?
But, it is true - McCain is Scots/Irish which makes him a natural as an American leader.
(Do you think it's inborn in the heart and mind, mixing with American soil - that Scot thing for freeeeedom and brains and leadership?)
Got a list of Scot American leaders, Nomad, or you going to make me google for it?
10

doublescotch,

U.S.A. 28/02/2008 03:28:09
#3 My children are half-Scottish,because their mother was born and raised in Scotland.That makes them first-generation American on one side. Let me tell you something missy., they are more concerened about the problems in America than in Scotland. same goes for Obama.
Old Scottish Mother:)
11

,

28/02/2008 03:36:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
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12

doublescotch,

U.S.A. 28/02/2008 03:37:15
carolyn, my kids have photos of themselves in kilts. They just roll their eyes, likewise Barack. Hillbillary has not released any papers including tax returns. which f you watched the debate last night she said she was to busy to do so.
13

Virginian,

USA 28/02/2008 03:46:18
Obama has no credentials whatsoever to be President of the US.

McCain on the other hand comes from a long line of US Navy officers and admirals as well as being a much decorated POW.

McCain is an experienced Congressman.

Who would be foolish enough to vote for Obama who is of unproven abilities in every area?

Obama is just providing the news media with something to write about in a fairly boring campaign.

McCain will be the next US President...God willing.
14

doublescotch,

U.S.A. 28/02/2008 03:54:52
#11... I hope you are just being silly and know the difference between, Narcissist and Necrophilla!
15

Ian_,

usa 28/02/2008 04:23:18

#8 Carolyn 1

Your messages contain inaccuracies. For example, I have heard Obama mention, several times, helping the people of Darfur.

Michelle Obama’s Princeton thesis was released:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/26/politics/uwire/main3881166.shtml

White house people say Clinton has known since Jan 31 that the records relating to her time as First Lady are available. All it requires is an approval from a representative of Bill Clinton to have them released:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/02/white-house-b-1.html
16

,

28/02/2008 06:41:06
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17

,

28/02/2008 07:23:22
Comment Removed By Administrator
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18

McMillar,

Fife 28/02/2008 08:09:07
It’s BillGate for the Demos and no he did not have relations with that woman. Sure…
McCain is too old, good candidate but his opportunity has passed. Would be such a retro step to elect someone aged 103.
19

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 28/02/2008 08:40:31
Hillary? Ali Bama? Frozen chip-man? Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.

America's finest, like our own , don't stand for political office. That's why scallywags run the planet.
20

Beachcomber,

Edinburgh 28/02/2008 09:00:21
The USA is crying out for change, my pref. was for
John Edwards, sadly not to be. The thought of 'bomb bomb bomb - bomb bomb Iran' McCain becoming the next
President quite frankly scares the life out of me
a non American.

Hilary is in the pocket of the multi billion $ Health
Corporations,and too close for comfort to those in
in control,who are hell bent in wiping out the Arab World.

Barack for President.







21

sceptic,

28/02/2008 09:34:05
Hillary was so far in front at the start of the campaign she could only go one way ....down! Obama has the momentum, Republican McCain attacks Obama because he sees Obama as his likely opponent in the presidential race. Hillary was a flawed candidate with her Clinton baggage, even with many democrats. Hillary has always played the race card skilfully but she is losing out to the first substantial black opponent.
22

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

28/02/2008 10:45:35
Some experts have claimed that Hillary needs 25% wins in Ohio and Ohio to claw level in the race. the reality is that that won't happen.

However, having checked my figures it works out that 10% wins by Clinton in Texas and Ohio and a solid win in Rhode Island (she will lose Vermont) could see Obama's lead cut by around 50-60 delegates. That would leave everything to fight for in Mississippi and Pennsylvania. Ohio looks like it could deliver such a result - Texas is less clear - polls are all over the place.

An endorsement for either candidate by Bill Richardson could be crucial in determining this election, especially in Texas. Obviously if he backs Obama the game is up for Hillary. But if he backs Hillary then it could be a whole new ball game. It is reported that Richardson is set to endorse in the next few days - so watch this space.

PS Obama can be attacked but I believe that he is being attacked on the wrong issues. It is his policy that is his biggest weakness. Hillary should leave the attacks on Obama's character to others.

23

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

28/02/2008 11:02:16
#22 That should of course read "needs 25% in Ohio and Texas".

One interesting point is that the national polls don't give Obama the big lead over Hillary that the present delegate count shows - statistically they are running neck and neck. Also I see that Rush Limbaugh has now switched his stratgey - until now he has been urging Republicans to vote Obama in the primaries. He is now encouraging them to back Clinton - to keep the contest going longer!!! The democrats will be hoping that one way or other this contest is over soon.
24

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 28/02/2008 12:04:36
#6

"Why on Earth would anyone in their right mind be proud of coming from an African country?"

...Well, that's where your ancestors originated.

"Mass murder, rape, genocide against all and sundry, indescribable kleptomania, corruption gone mad, and meglomania in spades".

...Now you know where you acquired those qualities.
25

tomias,

Edinburgh 28/02/2008 12:22:44
Who ever next sits in the Whitehouse the Pan Am 103 story will remain under steel sheets.
And yes this is pertiment.
26

McMillar,

Fife 28/02/2008 12:46:41
Gee #25 maybe you’re right…..they’re all out to get you. Move on.
27

Reading Public 1,

Wisc 28/02/2008 13:07:53
Here you go again Carolyn1 or cj, stay out of political discussion as you are out of you meager depth there.
28

,

28/02/2008 13:39:49
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Reason:
29

seaweasel,

Lurgan, County Armagh 28/02/2008 14:08:36
Walter, given the level of sarcasm usually found on Scotsman comments, at first I thought you were just trolling. However, I noticed you're in Wisconsin and it occurred to me that your post might actually be serious, for the sake of America and the rest of the world I really hope I'm mistaken.
30

Number 6,

Germany 28/02/2008 14:20:40
Has Edwards declared who he is supporting yet ?.

#13 Are you suggesting that come the head to head, that Obamas support will disappear, and America will run into 100more years in Iraq? seriousley now.
31

Steve McGregor,

Dundee 28/02/2008 15:03:56
Arnold Schwarzenegger born in Austria and moved to America when he was 21, contested for the post of California Governor, no body said he was Austrian.

Barack Obama born in America, contesting for American presidency, they say he is African.

Can anyone tell me another definition of "racism"?
32

Carolyn 1,

28/02/2008 15:20:21
#15 Ian
I haven't seen Obama's working policy on Darfur other than a very broad generalization of saying he went to Darfur. His foreign policy adviser mentioned what she calls the "Three p's plan." (Peace, Punishment, Protection) but there is nothing about the how or when, and nothing about the Kenya elections or how Obama hopes to achieve the peace in Darfur or in Iraq, or the protection. (I thought he was taking the troops out?)

Here's a direct quote that's a little scary:
"He plans to support moving Iraqis from dangerous areas, but does not see the United States’ creation of a “fantasy Iraq government” as a positive role."
This sounds major to me. Where is he going to relocate them?
What about the Iraq government is a fantasy?
How does he plan to achieve this peace, protection, prosecution?

Former National Security adviser Sandy Berger is on Obama's staff; maybe the Burgler has the actual proposals and plans in his pants and is hiding them until after the election.

This lecture supposedly talks about Obama's foreign policy, but you still know nothing after reading it. (Please note they can't correctly spell advisor, which is spelled adviser,)

Obama’s foreign policy advisor lays out platform
http://thedartmouth.com/2007/11/12/news/obama/

So Ian, if you have a link to Obama's specific foreign policy plans please post it for the voters.



33

mike - across the pond,

number 6... 28/02/2008 15:52:36
a piece of advice for you...

WATCH the obama-ites... watch what they say... watch HOW they say it... watch them CLOSELY... listen with a critical ear

I've watched them REAL closely... Obama is vague... purposefully vague... if he doesnt SAY anything of substance, he cant be pinned down... VERY clinton-esque (circa 1992)... he's head of the senate comittee for Afghanistan... WONDERFUL... hes NEVER even convened the committee... um... well wait a minute here... I think he's missed the opportunity there, dont YOU???

his minions site that he supported health care while a state senator in Illinois... GREAT... thats where health care infrastructure belongs... now he wants to bring that to a national level... wrong answer...

you hear people ask WHAT has obama done... his sycophants indignantly site numbers that just dont jive... somebody here said he authored 150 bills his first year... HE DIDNT EVEN VOTE ON 150 BILLS... much less his own... then they sited 680 some for his senate career... thats only been 3 years... one of which he has spent the majority of on the presidential campaign trail (which he promised the Illinois people he WOULD NOT DO).... do the math... something is not right...

you hear Obama go on about change... what change.... we need some details pal...

Obama said he would pull troops from Iraq and send them back if AlQueda was there... Ok... they ARE there now... so whats it gonna be... pull troops... or leave em there.... there is no cohesion to his plans... they seem random... tailored to the moment...

dont get me wrong... I'm not swooning at the thought of McCain... hes got his warts... but what CHOICE is there... somebody you know next to NOTHING about, who habitually doublespeaks, and who surrounds himself with sycophants... or somebody who has warts...

please lord I would like the opportunity to vote FOR someone... just one more time

please!!!!
34

Lynne,

USA 28/02/2008 15:54:21
Carolyn1...LOL on Sandy Berger
35

Tris,

dundee 28/02/2008 15:57:19


Actually, acording to Longman's "advisor/adviser" is optional.

36

Tris,

28/02/2008 16:01:59
Also according to Longman's "according" has 2 Cs... unlike my foirst post
37

Tris,

28/02/2008 16:02:21
or even... first post
38

Lynne,

USA 28/02/2008 16:03:54
Carolyn1..Unfortunately Obama did not know Al Qaeda in Iraq is already there.
39

yockel,

28/02/2008 16:40:18
Religious nutters one, Clinstonians nil?
40

Carolyn 1,

28/02/2008 16:47:47
Thanks Tris, for the advisor/adviser option, I feel so much better knowing that the Dartmouth College editor can spell.

I agree Obama is charming and a wonderful speaker- he has transfixed half of America yet is saying nothing. The guy could well be president. Shouldn't we ask where's the substance? He's head of the committee for NATO but hasn't had a meeting?? Why am I the only one who thinks that speaks volumes about his policy but no one listens????
I'm going to get run off the forum for wondering if Mr. Obama is a narcissist, but... Here we go: I googled the definition of narcissism:
"narcissism >noun
Applied to a social group, it is sometimes used to denote elitism or an indifference to the plight of others.
From wiki:
* The narcissist is inclined to lie or deceive.
* The narcissist often criticises others, sometimes to the extent of damaging their reputation.
* The public persona is typically very charming

Most people only witness the public persona and do not see the private persona, and therefore have a very distorted perception of the narcissist's true character.
* While a narcissist might criticise others the narcissist strongly dislikes to be criticised by others.
* While a narcissist might interrupt others in conversation the narcissist strongly dislikes to be interrupted by others.
* A narcissist feels entitled to special priveleges.
* While a narcissist will often ask favours of others, he or she will feel no obligation to return favours and may strongly dislike it when others ask favours of the narcissist.
* A narcissist will often expect others to fit in with the narcissist's plans.
41

Carolyn 1,

28/02/2008 17:06:45
Mike-
I agree completely with your comment.
As much as I'm not a fan of Hillary, if she wins the nomination I'll vote for her- women's lib finally breaks through the glass ceiling. I think Hillary actually hears and heeds the voice of the people and will be a centrist president. She's proven that by working for the New Yorkers she represents.
Since it looks like Obama is going to be the ticket, I hope McCain picks an excellent Veep and I'll overlook the warts.
42

Sammy25,

28/02/2008 17:08:24
I see my post number 2 was removed by the administrator. Reason unknown of course.

My post simply drew attention to the story unreprted by the Scotsman or any UK media concerning the fact that 9/11 truth was debated in the European Pariliament this week and a link.

Nothing else.

Police state.

http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20080227140959474
43

Carolyn 1,

28/02/2008 17:10:24
#38 Lynne
listening to the debate I almost fell out of my chair when he said if al Queda is in Iraq...

I really don't know why he doesn't get hammered for saying this stuff. Hollywood just seems to love him more?
44

Carolyn 1,

28/02/2008 17:10:24
#38 Lynne
listening to the debate I almost fell out of my chair when he said if al Queda is in Iraq...

I really don't know why he doesn't get hammered for saying this stuff. Hollywood just seems to love him more?
45

Sandi,

San Diego 28/02/2008 18:11:18
It's an amazing time when I'm in agreement with Lynne and Carolyn!

Obama is so vague about everything, especially what "change" he'd bring about and how he'd do it, that you can read virtually anything you want into what he says. His supporters all support him because he's for "change" and "unity". Yet, two days ago, he elected not to support the Feingold-Reid amendment regarding funding the troops in Iraq and bringing them home. His reason? Because there was no specific date. There had been a specific date, but a compromise (that's the unity part, reaching out across the aisle)was reached with the Republicans. It's not exactly what Democrats would like, but it's a huge improvement on the status quo. Hillary Clinton is a co-sponsor of the amendment. Neither she not Obama was in Washington to vote. Every other attempt at this has been voted down by the Republicans, but they supported this one. I'm sure they have their own reasons for doing that(ie getting re-elected in November!), and GWB is sure to veto it. However, this is one more example of Obama not understanding how things do work in Congress, apparently not understanding how "compromise" works in real life.

Another example of his inability to understand this was when he voted against a ceiling of 30% for the interest that credit card companies can charge. He thought it was too high. Well, so did Hillary Clinton, who voted for that, but it was the best they could get at that time from the Republicans. It was not approved and so there is no limit at all. How is that better?

#44 Carolyn, it's not that Hollywood "loves him more", it's all the major media. They don't question a single thing he does, or ever has done. Hillary, on the other hand, is interrogated and bashed constantly, and has been for the last year. I voted for her in my primary. I think she's much more knowledgeable than Obama about the serious issues facing our country-and the world.

Yes, she has been supported by too much of corporat
46

Highland Mighty,

28/02/2008 18:16:35
They should start putting minimum qualifications and experience on becoming a President (or even a PM or FM for that matter). It may be a political office but it is a job nonetheless and so should mirror job specs in the real world.

To run my country, I would like them to have a Doctorate or at least an MBA (one they actually studied and earnt on their own, not how Bush was given his!) and have spent at least 15 years in politics; in government and/or as a representative.

And this is BEFORE being put forward to the electorate as a candidate.
47

Lynne,

USA 28/02/2008 18:19:05
Sandi..I am just as amazed..I find myself agreeing with you!!! The media has been pushing this guy from day one. They overlook everything, ignore most of what he has to say (doesn't amount to much)..and like Carolyn1 I almost fell out of my chair too. He really needs someone to advise him on world situation matters.
First, he'd go into Pakistan without their permission, now he'll move all these people in Iraq and go after Al Qaeda. Oh Please...will someone give the media a clue!!!
48

57Nomad,

california 28/02/2008 18:34:14
#46 High M

High M said:

"at least an MBA (one they actually studied and earnt on their own, not how Bush was given his!)"

President Bush was 'given' an MBA? Why would you say something that ridiculous? What were you thinking about? Do you know where he got 'given' his MBA? Do you? Maybe you don't if you are going to engage in thoughtless lying. Well, here's the news, Skippy. He got it from Harvard. That's right, Jasper, Harvard.

Do you think Harvard 'gave' an MBA to W? Do you? Can you explain why you would think that let alone say it. You made a serious allegation do you have anything to back it up or are you an out and out liar?
49

Lynne,

USA 28/02/2008 18:37:25
Nomad..maybe he is confused with the "doctorates" bestowed upon people..
50

Lynne,

USA 28/02/2008 18:37:53
Nomad...meant HONORARY Doctorates
51

57Nomad,

california 28/02/2008 18:45:17
#31 Steve M

Steve M said:
"Barack Obama born in America, contesting for American presidency, they say he is African. Arnold Schwarzenegger born in Austria and moved to America when he was 21, contested for the post of California Governor, no body said he was Austrian."

Steve, what makes you think nobody said he was Austrian? People said it all the time. You never heard of Hans and Franz? Not only was it said, but his father was mentioned continually. There is a more salient reason. Americans of Austrian descent do not refer to themselves as Austrian-Americans, neither does the press. Black Americans are universally referred to as African-Americans. Walk into any black community in the States and start hectoring black people about your "African-American equal racism" theory. Hint, arm yourself, wear your track shoes, have a fast car waiting.
52

57Nomad,

california 28/02/2008 18:51:41
#50 Lynne

It's kind of you to give this guy the benefit of the doubt but he doesn't deserve it. For some reason, this guy thought that if W got an MBA then he must have received special treatment. This kind of thing is common in Europe and he doesn't know that American universities in general and Ivy league schools in particular have so many students with distinguished parents that if they all got special treatment the University's reputation would be destroyed.

High M. is clueless.
53

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 28/02/2008 18:58:12
Hillary Clinton is becoming a joke and unworthy of ever becoming President of the US of A.

Her comments and demeanour derive from desperation as she knows she is a lost cause and will NEVER get into the Oval Office.

She will have to stick to monitoring Bill's "extracurricular forays" into the realms of sensuality.
54

Lynne,

USA 28/02/2008 19:12:42
Nomad..most Europeans are under delusions of what America is, and isn't. They damn us if we do, damn us if we don't, tell us we need to get our moral highground back, and that we have a low standing in the world community.
Truthfully, I don't care what our standing is..they (Islamofacists and other terrorists) should be afraid of us.. We can't afford to look weak anymore to them. That's why they didn't want George bush back in office. Cause the man follows thru on what he says.
55

Lynne,

USA 28/02/2008 19:13:31
And I'm not even a Republican!!
56

Carolyn 1,

28/02/2008 19:36:37
#55
Me neither!! (Registered independent)
#45
I Totally agree with you Sandi!!!
And they say this country is divided? Nooooo! We're a country of individuals who speak our own minds, with our own reasoning, cause we're freeeee! (And least until Jan. 09.)

Ted Kennedy's endorsement that Obama is like his brother:

I have huge respect for JFK. He was tested and proven to have a spine of steel. He had a Navy medal of honor. His book on American politics and courage , which is still quoted, won a Pulitzer. He was young, and an eloquent inspirational speaker, he had ideas and substance: he was very qualified.

Barack Obama is no John Kennedy. Oh how this nation needs a John Kennedy to lead and be steadfast.

The Kennedys live a few miles from here; despite the fanfare, Hillary carried the area by 90%.

Highland Mighty saying there should be a qualification to be President, I agree, but free elections are supposed to be the litmus test to character and ability. Let's hope it works and we don't have buyer's remorse.

57

Ian Hendry,

Boston MA 28/02/2008 19:48:28
For McCain to have sung that "bomb bomb Iran" thing if indeed he did then he deserves nothing but absolute contempt,as someone aspiring to be the next President it shows a total lack of respect, common sense and intelligence...
58

Silence of the Yams,

28/02/2008 19:55:54
I feel sorry for Hilary, Obama has had all the advantages. The best candidate is going to lose the nomination on hype.
59

Carolyn 1,

28/02/2008 20:03:14
#57
George Siros the kzillionaire has put up $20 million bucks to stop McCain.
Moveon.org put out that YouTube song- bomb Iran. The ad won't stop anyone from voting for McCain, but maybe it will scare the bejeezus out of Iran for a minute or two or until McCain is out of office.

60

Lynne,

USA 28/02/2008 20:18:26
This is what it is all about..he ISN'T afraid..

Iran 'number one world power': Ahmadinejad
by Stuart WilliamsThu Feb 28, 8:08 AM ET
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad declared on Thursday that Iran was the world's "number one" power, as he launched a bitter new assault on domestic critics he accused of siding with the enemy.
"Everybody has understood that Iran is the number one power in the world," Ahmadinejad said in a speech to families who lost loved ones in the 1980-1988 Iran-Iraq war.
"Today the name of Iran means a firm punch in the teeth of the powerful and it puts them in their place," added Ahmadinejad, who on Sunday will become the first president of the Islamic republic to visit neighbouring Iraq.
Ahmadinejad's comments come amid renewed Western efforts on the UN Security Council to agree a third package of sanctions against Tehran over its refusal to suspend sensitive nuclear activities.
They also came a day after former top nuclear negotiator Hassan Rowhani launched an unprecedented attack on Ahmadinejad's foreign policy, accusing him of using "coarse slogans and grandstanding".
"You can see how some people here... try to materialise the plans of the enemies and by showing that Iran is small and the enemy is big," seethed Ahmadinejad.
"These are the people who put the enemies of humanity in the place of God," said the deeply religious president.
Ahmadinejad once again insisted that Iran was winning the standoff over its atomic programme, which the West fears could be used to make nuclear weapons but Iran says is peaceful.
"The Iranian nation is on the verge of the final nuclear victory and no power can stop this nation."
"The enemies of the nation and bullying powers do not dare to admit that this nation has won in the nuclear field."
Supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who this week congratulated Ahmadinejad for his role in Iran's nuclear case, said that Islamic countries do not need US approval to achieve great works.
61

Virginian,

USA 28/02/2008 21:56:06
If Obama's father was a black Muslim Kenyan and his mother was a white American from the Mid-West why is he considered only a "black American?"

Why doesn't he identify himself as a white American? Is he ashamed of being white or would it not get him any special attention (or votes) as a minority?

I thought the color of one's skin made no difference, but what is important is how capable you are for doing the job...according to Martin Luther King.

If proven ability to be a leader is the criterion of who should be elected, it certainly would not be Obama...an unknown out of no where.
62

John Blackley,

Winter Garden, FL 28/02/2008 22:01:06
I love the discussion about Obama's "lack of substance" - particularly in the context of the "substance" we currently have in the White House.

Let's see, during his campaign, the current "substance" spoke of "compassionate conservatism", "no nation-building", "reform Medicare", "reform Social Security", "end partisan politics", "a small and short-term budget deficit", and on and on and on.

If this is substance, let's hear it for Obama!
63

Lynne,

USA 28/02/2008 22:06:16
John Blackley..that would take a commitment on Obama's part. He would have to discuss things that would "lock him in to an issue".
64

SouthernGent,

28/02/2008 22:15:16
#46

Requireing those qualifications would be a great idea, but unrealistic. The individuals that have them don't want to take a pay cut to work for a disfunctional employer. They stay in the private sector for a reason. Have you ever known the government to do anything better than the private sector?
65

Carolyn 1,

28/02/2008 22:26:27
#62JBLackley
Rather than insult your memory lapse, we'll assume you were away, maybe on another planet when some Radical Extremists Nutcase Terrorists slammed planes into our buildings and declared war on us. Unlike Bill Clinton, we decided to fight back because we weren't going to take it anymore. Do you remember that now? September 11?
66

Virginian,

28/02/2008 22:28:39
#62 John Blackley, Winter Garden, Fla.

John, you are evading the point again. Name one reason that US citizens should vote for Obama.

President Bush is not running for office...Obama is.

What is your point about being "amused" when someone mentions Obama lacks "substance?"

Here's your chance to inform everyone about just what his qualifications are. I would sincerely like to know what the man has to offer.

Then we can each decide whether or not to be "amused"
at what you consider "substance."
67

doublescotch,

U.S.A. 28/02/2008 23:07:31
#54 Lynne, I think after we downed the spy satellite we showed the world what we really could do if we wanted to. I am a republican and voted twice for Bush I even worked on his campaign. I will vote for McCain too. I stuck up for Obama because I hate dirty pool.If you watched CNN the other night out came Paul Begala spouting McCain had cancer twice.He didn't say skin cancer. Of course that was to strike fear in the voters hearts.Begala wanted to protray McCain as old and weak. Dirty pool
68

doublescotch,

U.S.A. 28/02/2008 23:10:05
should read portray:)
69

Pilrig.,

Livingston 28/02/2008 23:33:42
6 - sounds like the good ol' US of A.
70

Pilrig.,

Livingston 28/02/2008 23:38:56
13 - God willing ? What's it with you 'septics' and God? Can you no'leave the puir auld b*gg*er oot of politics ?
71

Lynne,

USA 28/02/2008 23:40:12
doublescotch..I did not get the chance to see it, sorry to say. But the dirty tricks in politics makes me very sad..Everyone is always looking for the dirt.
Either they dig it up or they make it up, or they give the old half truth. I don't think Obama is ready for a presidency. I don't think he has the experience or the commitment. He refused to vote 129 times, and then this guy who is going for change from "old school politics" voted along party lines when he did vote.
I want to vote for McCain, but I am still not sure.
72

Pilrig.,

Livingston 28/02/2008 23:44:43
24 - You, me and the Hunchback of Notre Dame know our ancestors came from Africa. But we're dealing with posters from a country where the majority of it's citizens reckon we're descended from Adam and Eve !
73

SouthernGent,

29/02/2008 00:04:42
#72

You "know" no such thing. You "believe" it to be true. The truth is that you may be just as wrong as those you deride.
74

Tris,

dundee 29/02/2008 00:13:17
""#62JBLackley
Rather than insult your memory lapse, we'll assume you were away, maybe on another planet when some Radical Extremists Nutcase Terrorists slammed planes into our buildings and declared war on us. Unlike Bill Clinton, we decided to fight back because we weren't going to take it anymore. Do you remember that now? September 11""

You cannot seriously say that attacking Iraq was a good idea.

You cannot seriously say that any mature, thinking government would have gone to war with Afghanistan, given that historically no one, even the strongest and best equipped armies of the day, has ever been able to do anything but leave Afghanistan with their stupid tails between their stupid legs.

Ask the Britain, ask the Soviet Union.

No, this was not about mature reflection about how to deal with the undoubted outrage of 11/9/01. It was takling some revenge on some "bad guys".

Of course Osama Bin Laden is still free ("we're gonna git the bad guys" Bush) and so is Mullah Omar, almost undoubtedly in Pakistan.

But Haliburton got its contracts signed so alls well that ends well.

The ignoble piece of waste that is currently in the White House sent people to war against impossible odds, without proper equipment. He thought it would make him a war president. He thought it would make him popular. Wrong again Mr Idiot Bush.

The world needs change, and as the United States still sees itself for the next few years as the most important country in the world, a radical change in the White House would be welcomed. 326 days to go.
75

Tris,

29/02/2008 00:16:48
67.... Doublescotch.

I think its pretty dirty too... but in fairness you can die of skin cancer, infact it often is deadly and McCain is lucky to have survived it twice.

Skin cancer is not a soft option.
76

2dogs in D.C.,

29/02/2008 00:30:58
One poster stated that J.F.Kennedy was a great pres. Well, it may have been true had he lived long enough. But, under Kennedy, we had the missile crises,real close to the end of the world,the bay of pigs, and the early start of Vietnam. History is beginning to re write the "Camelot" White House. Obama may be new to the game, but Abe Lincoln was also a first term in congress whan ellected pres. Ol' McCain tried to dog Obama on Al Quieda in Iraq yesterday, and Obama smacked him down with logic. This guy is smart enough to know he needs a talented staff. Nuff said.
77

SouthernGent,

29/02/2008 00:53:14
A vote for Obama is a vote for higher unemployment. He says he will implement tax increases that target corporations and the rich. Strange logic. a) There is no such thing as corporate taxes - "corporate taxes" are an expense on the books and get added to the price of the service/commodity. The consumer pays this "tax". b) Many of the rich own corporations, and as "taxes" rise, the cost of production goes up, which in turn leads to layoffs. Who gets laid off? The guy at the bottom. In conclusion - the very people these tax hikes are supposed to help are the ones that are hurt the most. So be careful what you think you are voting for.
78

Virginian,

USA 29/02/2008 01:08:14
#70 Pilrig., Livingston
Quote: #13-God willing? What's it with you 'septics' and God? Can you no'leave the puir auld ....oot of politics?"

Pilrig, you auld atheist...I added that in just to confound you.

However, since you asked, the phrase is to be added whenever a Christian states that he is going to do something or that a certain thing is going to happen, but only if God so wills it.

In this way God is acknowledged as being in control of everything.

In Luke 12:16-21 in the Bible is a parable of Jesus known as the Parable of the Rich Fool. It goes like this:

"16-Then He spoke a parable to them saying: "The ground of a certain rich man yielded plentifully.
"17-And he thought within himself, saying, 'What shall I do, since I have no room to store my crops?'
"18-"So he said, 'I will do this: I will pull down my barns and build greater, and there I will store all my crops and my goods.
"19-'And I will say to my soul,"Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years; take your ease; eat, drink, and be merry."'"
"20-"But God said to him, 'Fool! This night your soul will be required of you; then whose will those things be which you have provided?'"
"21-"So is he who lays up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God."'(New King James version of the Bible).

One of the Epistles also has a passage reminding Christians not to say they will cause a certain thing to happen, but I don't feel like looking it up.

What are 'septics' that you are so fond of calling Christians?
79

doublescotch,

29/02/2008 01:40:40
#75 Tris. If the cancer is Melanoma which is the worse kind of skin cancer. John McCain did not have melanoma. Ted Kennedy has had several skin cancers taken off. I myself have had several removed, to much sun-damage on my fair skin. They are frozen off and it is a very painful procedure. I am more careful now and cover up when I am in the sun.
80

John Blackley,

Winter Garden, FL 29/02/2008 02:21:43
#65 Carolyn 1: Thank you for responding to my comment and for your concern about my memory. Sadly, I must express a similar concern for yours as three of the examples I gave - reform socal security, reform Medicare and a small and shrt-term budget deficit were promises Bush made in his second campaign in 2004 which was - if you're having difficulty with the math - after September, 2001.

#66 Virginian: Thank you also for responding to my comment. I regret that you feel I was evading some point and, had I known there was a point and it was my duty to address it, be assured that I would do so.

In a similar vein, my being amused by previous comments is simply a fact and not a point (although I am a little concerned by your apparent obsession with points).

Finally, as to "we" deciding whether or not to be amused by what I consider substance - frankly, I can think of little that would be of less concern to me.

81

,

29/02/2008 03:00:53
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82

,

29/02/2008 03:03:21
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29/02/2008 03:05:13
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SouthernGent,

29/02/2008 04:18:01
#80 John

"reform socal security, reform Medicare"

It wasn't Bush and the GOP that killed these reforms. The Dems love entitlements.
85

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 29/02/2008 04:41:41
#76 2dogs in DC

Thank you very much indeed for a VERY recent posting.

Chester is very well and this morning when we go for our"walkies"it will be -24 Celsius WITH windchill.

Trust me, it will be a "business only" walk.

Ah, the moderate climes of the capital of Canada.
86

Lynne,

USA 29/02/2008 17:51:40
why was 81-84 removed?
87

57Nomad,

california 29/02/2008 17:59:54
#9 Carolyn

Jeeze, Carolyn, you should already know some of them, George MacWashington, Benjamin MacFranklin, Franklin D.MacRoosevelt, the list goes on and on.

Seriously, the Scots have come to America and left it a better place. One rarely hears of things like 'vicious Scottish drug gangs,' 'strong armed Scottish extortionists' shaking down local merchants. Scots in the US are know for being solid, and most importantly, hard working people. This is not to mention Carnegie, Bell, et al who left Europe, came to American and from here changed the entire world for the better. They are, by and large, some pretty stud cats.

When Watt invented the steam engine, they were sold around the world. However, the amount of trained engineers to service them was scant to say the least. So, along with the engines came the engineers to service them. And in the same way that a signalman is referred to as 'sparks' the engineers were also called by a descriptive name. A couple hundred years later an American television producer paid homage to this group by naming an important character in a legendary tv show after these men.

I mean, really, can anyone possibly imagine Capt. James T. Kirk getting on his communicator and saying, "Beam me up, Frenchy"?
88

57Nomad,

california 29/02/2008 18:13:44
#74 tris

tris said:

"You cannot seriously say that attacking Iraq was a good idea.
You cannot serious