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US election: McCain enlists Churchill to fight Obama

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Published Date: 15 October 2008
JOHN McCain reached to Churchill for inspiration yesterday as he sought to re-launch his fading presidential campaign ahead of tonight's debate with Barack Obama.
Characterising himself as a man with his back to the wall, he aped Churchill's famous Battle of Britain speech to portray Mr Obama as too new and untried to be trusted as president.

He told voters at Blue Bell Community College in Pennsylvania: "P
erhaps never before in history have the American people been asked to risk so much based on so little."

It's not a moment too soon for fighting talk: like Churchill, Mr McCain is staring defeat in the face. In state after state, his plucky but underfunded campaign officials are being overwhelmed by Mr Obama's mighty force, able to deploy twice the cash and a million volunteers.

And like Churchill, Mr McCain has only a few weeks to turn the tide, with the election due on 4 November.

A window of success could open at tonight's final presidential debate at Hofstra University, New York.

It is the last face-to-face tussle between the two men and the last chance Mr McCain will get to confront his rival in an unscripted setting and score points off him.

Mr McCain coupled the character attack on his rival with an ambitious plan of cradle-to-grave tax cuts for pensioners, the unemployed, mortgage holders and shareholders.

Mr Obama unveiled his own rescue plan earlier in the week, and insisted yesterday that his package of trade measures were the answer to the fears of US workers. "It's a plan that begins with one word that's on everyone's mind, and it's easy to spell: J-O-B-S."



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1

Boy Wonder,

15/10/2008 00:23:04
Naah! I think McCain has definitely had his chips now!!!
2

,

15/10/2008 01:05:04
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3

Virginian,

USA 15/10/2008 01:19:28
"A window of success could open at tonight's final presidential debate at Hofstra University, New York."

Answer: Senator McCain has said that he will address Obama's affiliation with Ayers and Ayers' wife, Bernardine Dohrn, aka "The Bomber," at the debate.

A quick Google of Bernardine Dohrn will reveal a history of terrorist activities that virtually went unpunished after she and Ayers finally gave themselves up to the police.

Dohrn was an avowed Communist who traveled to Cuba in 1969 for the express purpose of meeting with North Korean and Cuban governmental representatives.

Obama will try to brush aside these questions but the American people do have the right to know the truth about this mystery candidate for President with his ties to convicted terrorists.
4

,

15/10/2008 01:29:43
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5

Virginian,

USA 15/10/2008 01:38:27
"And like Churchill Mr McCain has only a few weeks to turn the tide..."

Answer: Chris, are you saying that McCain will turn the tide just as Churchill did?

That's good to hear!


6

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 15/10/2008 01:49:22
Evidently, a New York Times/CBS poll released today has Obama up by 14 percentage points.

CNN is attacking Todd Palin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAm-Nvk3FAw

The Village Voice has questions about the Palins building a lake-front home with contractors also hired to build a sports stadium in Wasilla while she was mayor.

http://www.villagevoice.com/2008-10-08/news/the-book-of-sarah/1

here's a CBS story that says McCain's been less than truthful about this Ayers fellow.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/13/eveningnews/realitycheck/main4518056.shtml

I already documented earlier that some republicans who are mccain supporters supported Ayers' education charity just like Obama did. But McCain calls Obama a terror-sympathizer and the people who donated to mcCain that did the exact same thing he keeps their money.

When Obama associates with ACORN he is a leftist or a terrorist, but when McCain does, then that's different.

http://wonkette.com/403505/heres-john-mccain-with-his-mexican-terrorist-boyfriend-acorn#more-403505

http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2008/10/14/what-exactly-is-acorns-plan-for-world-domination/

7

SCULLION1,

Canada 15/10/2008 01:54:40
SCULLION1
#5, I'm afraid McCain is headed for the dust heap as Churchill was in '45. He led Britain during its moments of war crisis, and for that he deserves to be lionized, but he was of no use to a society that wanted to go forward. Revisionism several years later showed that to be true.
8

,

15/10/2008 02:05:09
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9

Richardinho,

15/10/2008 02:05:32
So now Obama isn't just been expected to answer for Ayers, he's also supposed to answer for Ayer's wife! Why stop there? Why not find all the people they know and find if they have skeletons in their closets that McCain can ask Obama about?

Absolutely pathetic from the republicans.
10

Virginian,

USA 15/10/2008 02:18:46
#4 Sarah Palin's ex-brother-inlaw

It is instructive that you find nothing wrong with Obama's ties with Ayers and Dohrn who are convicted criminals who advocated the violent overthrow of the US government.

Obviously you are an apologist for the criminal activities of the likes of Ayers and Dohrn if you gloss over the issue.

Obama's "mighty" team is working diligently to register all the felons they can find and are obviously scraping the barrel just to get votes.

Being proud of voter fraud is not exactly a trait that decent people identify with.

All of this does sound like the barbarians are at the gates.

And don't call me "son." What a repulsive idea.

11

Richardinho,

15/10/2008 02:28:28
'Obviously you are an apologist for the criminal activities of the likes of Ayers and Dohrn if you gloss over the issue.'

Seriously, you honestly think that if one takes the view that Obama has nothing whatsoever to do with Ayer's past activities with 'The Weathermen', that makes you a supporter of terrorism?
You are losing your grip on reality, my friend.
12

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 15/10/2008 02:36:47
one of McCain's people is a terror sympathizer.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/14/mccain-transition-chief-a_n_134595.html

How is it that McCain is running for president and he has a terror-sympathizer working for him? Oh I forgot. He's a republican. Republican president George W Bush selected Donald Rumsfeld to be his secretary of defense and Rumsfeld was a big supporter of Saddam Hussein in the 1980's. Rumsfeld worked in the reagan admin and is credited with convincing ronald Reagan to go along with the aid program where $40 billion was given to Saddam. Rumsfeld also testified before congress to get them to go along. Then, in 2001 GW Bush after all the terror committed by Saddam made Rumsfeld his secretary of defense. So, terror-sympathizers are normal among the republicans. It is those who oppose the republicans that are terror-sympathizers.

here's a link showing 5 polls.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/tpm_track_composite_obama_hold.php

Obama leads by an average of 7.5% in those 5 major polls.

here's a link showing 2 Alaska women telling what they know about Palin.

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-113360#

you know its not just Palin's brother-in-law that is against her. Her mother-in-law also is against her and made it known publicly that she's never supported her daughter-in-law in any political race. unlike the brother-in-law they're still friends though.

and Paul Craig Roberts who has a phd in economics as well as was a high official of reagan's treasury department says the bailout bill does not pass the smell test.

http://www.vdare.com/roberts/081013_bailout.htm

Criminal activity is how it smells. I know that republican fans will defend it and say that McCain voted for it because Obama did. it doesn't matter. criminals don't deserve a break.
13

Virginian,

USA 15/10/2008 02:38:20
Wally, why is it that the pro-Obama people are willing to stoop to justifying known criminals such as Ayers and Dohrn, but then act as if Obama didn't know as thing about their background when Ayers helped launch Obama's political career?

Ayers had nothing to do with McCain's political career but he certainly did launch Obama into politics. How could you fail the see the difference?

Instead of answering questions about Obama's background you simply switch the subject to McCain.

No wonder the American voters are suspicious about Obama.
14

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 15/10/2008 02:40:11
Virginian, McCain was pals with Charles Keating who is also a convicted criminal. Keating's fraud cost elderly people hundreds of millions of dollars. and it also cost the US taxpayers billions. McCain described himself as 'best friends' with Keating and took lots of money from Keating. McCain was also friends with this Bonano fellow from Tucson who was an organized crime figure that like Keating was found guilty in court & sent to jail.

15

,

15/10/2008 02:40:48
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16

Virginian,

USA 15/10/2008 02:49:15
#12 Wally

There you go again! Trying to deflect attention away from Obama's ties to Ayers and onto McCain and Palin.

You are sounding quite desperate.
17

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 15/10/2008 02:51:58
Ayers hosted a fund-raiser for Obama when Obama first began running for state office about 13 years ago. So, you say he 'launched' Obama's career. a bit of a stretch. Keating gave $250,000 to McCain's efforts to get elected. and who knows how much more was donated due to Keating's influence. I think Keating spent 4-5 years in jail. Ayers gave a very small quantity of money to obama by comparison. I would say keating was a lot more important to getting McCain's career established than Ayers was to getting Obama's career going.

McCain contacted federal prosecutors and asked them not to prosecute Charles Keating. Obama did no such thing for Ayers. Obama was 7 years old when Ayers committed his crimes.
18

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 15/10/2008 03:04:11
McCain is REALLY desperate to be quoting a much superior man in Winston Churchill. Does that loser McCain think that be quoting a noted author and saviour of civilisation against the Nazi might some of his greatness will rub off on his sorry self? NOT!

When that old man McCain and his duplicitous and gormless wonder of a running mate - Stupid Sarah - are thrown on the dust heap of infamy perhaps the Americans can have the government they deserve under the INTELLIGENT and inspired leadership of Obama and Biden.
19

Virginian,

USA 15/10/2008 03:10:14
#15 SPebil

Quote: "But best vote for the party that wont (sic) get us all killed."

McCain and Palin are the party that won't get us all killed.

If Ayers, Dohrn, Rev. Wright, and various other radical Obama supporters had their way all white Americans that aren't of their political persuasion would be killed.

However, Rev. Wright designated white America to be damned by God while Dohrn, who is white, also wanted "whiteys" killed.

Bernardine Dohrn is obviously a certified fruitcake, even if she is an adjunct law professor at Northwestern, if she is white but she calls for whites to be killed.

It is hard to say about those old Hippies. Most of the time they were so high on drugs that they needed to be in a padded cell to protect themselves and everybody around them.

Nonetheless, they are violent offenders so they are not suitable pals for a Presidential candidate.

Why don't you check out Wikipedia's report on Bernadine Rae Dohrn...it talks about Ayers too. It is pretty unbelievable that they could still be walking around free.
20

,

15/10/2008 03:38:46
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21

Virginian,

USA 15/10/2008 04:25:13
#20 SPebil

Well, have you looked up Ayers and Dorhn yet?

Try to keep up and stay focused on the issue being discussed.
22

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 15/10/2008 04:49:36
remember that column written at National Review by conservative columnist named Parker that said Palin should be sacked as VP candidate. Now she said on tv that White House officials agree with her.

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/10/14/parker-palin-white-house/

National Review has been known as the leading magazine of the conservative movement. Of course it was taken over by neo-cons just like the republican party.

Also remember that conservative writer Peggy Noonan ridiculed Palin on national tv, calling her a 'joke'.
23

Pilrig,

Livingston 15/10/2008 06:17:06
16 - it's you who sound desperate, pal !
24

Pilrig,

Livingston 15/10/2008 06:19:02
Churchill wouldn't have employed someone with the mentality of Palin as a domestic servant let alone 2nd in charge
25

Mashimaro,

China 15/10/2008 07:34:18
Justice for the Hmong! Will McCain do what's right? I don't think so.
26

The wilkman,

Isle of Skye 15/10/2008 09:46:26
"Virginian" must be a troll:-) He's had the answer to this nonsense about "Obama supports terrorists" from everyone else in this discussion but keeps repeating it as if he hasn't heard.
If he's not a troll he really is as desperate as MacCain's campaign. Virginia has become a swing state! North Carolina may vote Obama!! It looks as if the US population has had a good suspicious look at both candidates and has decided who they prefer.
27

Guga II,

Rockall 15/10/2008 10:00:56
He must be getting desperate if he is invoking that incompetent, arrogant, self-seeking, self-publicist Churchill.

Not only was that incompetent responsible for Gallipoli because of his obsession with the Balkans, but he was the evil b*astard who sent armed troops in to shoot the miners in Wales, and who sent 10,000 English troops and tanks in against the Clydesiders.
28

Hillary R. Clinton,

15/10/2008 11:33:08
26 The wilkman

The only trolls are the new ones like the ones using the ID's here on the Scotsman Sarah Palin, Sarah Palin's ex-brother-in-law, and you.
29

D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

15/10/2008 11:43:34
#21-Virginian

I'm personally alarmed at McCain's links to our current terrorists Bush & Cheney. These men are criminals and should be prosecuted as such. They are responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, as we are all aware.

I share this opinion with millions of other Americans, who think that this flimsy Ayers story is simply a
desperate last-minute attempt to further demonize Obama. However. . . .it won't work.

William Ayers? It's a non-starter, my friend.
30

thatscottishman,

15/10/2008 12:14:30
#21-Virginian

I'm personally also alarmed at President Clinton's links to the current terrorist Osama bin Laden. He should be prosecuted as such. He is responsible for the deaths of thousands of your people causing your nation to go to war, as we are all aware. Clinton was offered Osama bin Laden several times and refused to take him.
31

Number 6,

Germany 15/10/2008 12:39:21
If McCain wishes to return to gutter politics then Obama should hold his nose and follow him down into the sewer for a few minutes.

Obama should challenge Mccain on his links to Organised crime

His sending telegrams of apology to Mafia Bosses for not being able to attend his birthday celebrations.

he should be asked why his wife a drug user of the worst kind, in that she stole her drugs of choice from acharity she was supposed to be helping. Obama should demand to know why this awful woman was not jailed and allowed to walk free.

His war record , one of the most shameful on record should also come under scrutiny before the American people.

That being said, decent Americans are disgusted by McCain and "That woman's" behaviour during this campaign. Obama has nothing to fear.

Is Palin still under investigation for corruption ?
32

D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

15/10/2008 13:55:49

From- http://www.alternet.org/blogs/election08/102958/

"This morning, McCain told a St. Louis radio station that he feels compelled to make the attack now, and it's Obama's fault."

(The following is McCain speaking re: tonight's debate)

"Oh, yeah. Y'know, I was astonished to hear him say that he was surprised for me to have the guts to do that, because the fact is that the question didn't come up in that fashion. So, y'know, and I think he's probably ensured that it will come up this time. And, look Mark, it's not that I give a damn about some old washed-up terrorist..."

WAIT - SAY THAT AGAIN ???????

WHAT WAS THAT LAST PART ???? "I don't give a damn about some washed-up terrorist?" Then what's all the "outrage" about this ?
Just to further manipulate the flag-wavin' "six-packers" out there ?

"He doesn't care about Ayers, but he feels compelled to keep talking about Ayers, and has now effectively promised to bring up Ayers at the debate."

This debate will highlight McCain's desperation and make it clear to all that he is not fit for the job and has been aligned with the Bush/Cheney mob all along.

Find this guy's slippers and send him off for his nap !

33

D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

15/10/2008 13:59:52

Anyone care to look into this story ?

"William Timmons, the Washington lobbyist who John McCain has named to head his presidential transition team, aided an influence effort on behalf of Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein to ease international sanctions against his regime."

The two lobbyists who Timmons worked closely with over a five year period on the lobbying campaign later either pleaded guilty to or were convicted of federal criminal charges that they had acted as unregistered agents of Saddam Hussein's government.

During the same period beginning in 1992, Timmons worked closely with the two lobbyists, Samir Vincent and Tongsun Park, on a previously unreported prospective deal with the Iraqis in which they hoped to be awarded a contract to purchase and resell Iraqi oil. Timmons, Vincent, and Park stood to share at least $45 million if the business deal went through."

www.alternet.com

34

SouthernGent,

15/10/2008 14:07:47
For those planning to vote for the democrats, you may want to ask yourself why the large socialist leaning country to your north has just re-elected a conservative administration. The "grass is greener" syndrom seems to be in play. They have what you want and evidently don't like it.
35

D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

15/10/2008 14:23:14

#34-

Reason # 1 - Cananda is not the USA - it has it's own evolution akin to ours, but not ours.

Reason #2 - You make presumptions that constantly put you at odds with current reality.

Reason # 3- Are you not aware that we are now owners of semi-nationalized banks ? What do you call this ?

Exactly WHAT are you so fearful of with this word "socialism?" You honestly believe that all of the COLLECTIVE EFFORTS THAT WE ALL CONTRIBUTE TO VIA OUR TAXES HAS NOT BEEN "SOCIALISM" ALL ALONG ?

Do you build your own bridges, schools, subways,
provide all of your own public services and infrastructure ? Of course not ! We all contribute to these necessities and are VERY MUCH "socialistic" in these efforts. How could it possibly be otherwise ?

Are you afraid of your monthly Social Security check ?

Afraid of your Medicare benefits ? Your pension ?
Afraid that we have a public school system that we all pay into for our children's education ?

Exactly what are you afraid of ? The government taking over our financial system and, thereby, literally holding the purse strings ?

Well. . . .they just DID and none of us are too happy about that !

36

Number 6,

Germany 15/10/2008 14:24:30
For those planning to vote for the republicans, you may want to look around you and ask yourself........

What was I thinking ?
37

A Clamper,

Edinburgh 15/10/2008 14:43:55
"US election: McCain enlists Churchill to fight Obama"

Even his speach writers can't come up with anything original. Time to retire old man.
38

Carolyn 1,

15/10/2008 15:20:18
To anyone with an understanding of government and economics, there is no doubt this election is a choice between a new American socialism/Marxism and a free-trade republic/Democracy.

When enlisting the lower class with uplifting rhetoric, what the new democrat/Marxists do not explain to the people is that the redistribution of wealth will be VERY temporary. New Wealth will not be generated to sustain them in the future.

The fact is- that if the Marxist principles are set in action, those with money are going to leave: quickly and quietly.

Entrepreneurs will take their money with them.
Gone from the landscape will be the talent, expertise and business that built America to the most powerful economy in the world.


What remains after the exodus will be the democrat/Marxist safety net that was in reality a hammock for the underachieving.


The question is, to what country will these free-trade entrepreneurs relocate to?
39

mike - across the pond,

wally 15/10/2008 15:25:07
lets get this straight...

McCain-Keating... was investigated BY a DEMOCRAT CONTROLLED committee... and (like John Glenn) was found to have used poor judgement in attending meetings, but was found to have never backed Keating the way he or you imply... there was more meat to the whole Clinton/Whitewater thing than there ever was to McCain/Keating

Obama... you REALLY back the relationship between Obama & Ayers as being "nothing"... lets lay out the land here...
1) AYERS coordinated Obama's apointment to lead the "annenberg" trust (then got him FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS to dole out to AYERS agendas)... then later launched his political career...
2) LOOK at what Ayers preaches... its your "new world order" you go on and on about... how can you be SOOOO worried about that on one hand and SOOOO dismissive on the other???
3) LOOK at what MICHELLE OBAMA preaches... "I have never been proud of my country, until now"... sure SOUNDS a lot like Ayers...

ACORN...
1) OBAMA trained ACORN staff
2) OBAMA donated $800,000 to ACORN earlier this year...
3) OBAMA and the democrats tried to fly a 20% diversion of "profits" from the first go round of the "bail-out" package directly to ACORN.... WHAT WAS THAT? THANK GOD McCain went back to Washington to stiffen the resolve of the House Republicans to oppose THAT little jewell.....

4) ACORN operatives have a half dozen convictions for VOTER FRAUD.... they are currently under investigation in FOURTEEN states for FURTHER voter fraud...

you dont like McCain... and thats fine... but think about what Lao Tzu said about leaders...
"A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: we did it ourselves."
40

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 15/10/2008 15:28:39
Still the same rabid and ridiculous Republicans posting their lame excuses for old man McCain and STUPID Sarah Palin.

Wake up and smell the organic coffee! McCain and Palin have lost and can hardly wait to see him make a fool of his doddering self tonight.
41

,

15/10/2008 15:31:09
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42

,

15/10/2008 15:33:29
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43

D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

15/10/2008 15:34:30

#38-

Carolyn - there just ain't no hope for ya' !

The world and it's economic theories "carved in stone" have all passed you by. All of your definitions are relics of another, simpler time. The are all up for grabs, modifications and reinterpretations.
You know. . . .evolution of human thought.

WHERE TO HIDE ?

OFF TO ALASKA . . .is my suggestion !

JOIN THE PATRIOTIC PALINS IN THEIR EFFORTS TO BREAK
AWAY FROM STATEHOOD AS PART OF THE USA ! Talk about radicals !

"Alaskan Independence Party, a radical group advocating Alaskan secession from the United States. Gail Fenumiai, director of the Alaska Division of Elections, told TPM Muckraker that Palin registered as an AIP member in October 1995 and continued in that status until 2000, when he registered as undeclared for a few months. He registered as an AIP member again and remained with the party until 2002, when he registered as undeclared." ( www.alternet.org))

44

SouthernGent,

15/10/2008 15:43:13
#35
"Reason #2 - You make presumptions that constantly put you at odds with current reality."

Sounds as if your guilty of your own presumptions. Post facts to back it up, or you ring hollow.

"Reason # 3- Are you not aware that we are now owners of semi-nationalized banks ? What do you call this ?"

We sure are, and isn't it amazing that we are currently under a democratic congress which could have stopped it but didn't.

I am opposed to larger government, period. Is there a need for "common good", absolutely. But do we need the government to get bigger to do it, absolutely not.

Do we need to help those that CAN'T help themselves, absolutely.

Do we need to help those that WON'T help themselves, absolutely not.

Do you enjoy going to work so that others may choose to stay home and live off your hard work, I don't.

Socialism breeds laziness and lowers productivity - proven fact.
45

,

15/10/2008 15:45:17
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46

mike - across the pond,

d.feste 15/10/2008 15:57:06
yes the government finally has had the purse strings publicly thrust into its hands...

lets look at how we got here...

1) LOOK at the Community Re-investment Act... 1977 CARTER and the DEMOCRATS.. READ it...

2) THINK about how ACORN, and the documented coersion tactics they used, HOW they used the COMMUNITY RE-INVESTMENT ACT to WARP the financial institutions to their will... forcing them to create "sub-prime" & "ninja" loans so those who lacked "credit-worthiness" could get these loans...

3) FIND OUT WHO did what...
3a) 1989 REPUBLICANS called for more restrictions & oversight on CRA related initiatives
3b) 1994 clinton & the democrats gave more teeth to Acorn and their ability to obstruct businesses that they didnt "like"
3c) 1995 clinton gutted 1989 regulations
3d) 1999 Clinton "expand(ed) the reach of the [Community Reinvestment] Act"

the economic crisis we are IN is a direct result of "Great Society" "Social Engineering".... aka SOCIALISM...
47

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 15/10/2008 16:14:42
Mike - the Arizona Republic reported that McCain intervened and tried to convince the federal prosecutor not to take Keating down. end of story. 4 of 5 senators caught in that scandal were democrats. the fact that a democrat dominated ethics committee criticized McCain (& others) means nothing. The Arizona Republic said more than what the committee said of McCain. They said he used 'poor judgement' without outright saying he intervened. But the AZ Republic said he intervened.

48

Virginian,

USA 15/10/2008 16:16:59
#37 A Clamper,Edinburgh

Quote: "Even his [McCain's] speach (sic) writers can't come up with anything original."

Answer: Biden had to bow out of his 1987 run for President because he admitted plagiarizing a speech of another British politician named Neil Kinnock.

Later evidence came out that he had plagiarized a law school paper whereby he received a failing grade. Biden's excuse was that he didn't know the rules of citing a quote.

Using famous quotes is a universal practice in speech writing, but it is illegal not to attribute the quote to the author.

What kind of Vice President and potential President does Biden make when he has been caught twice plagiarizing materials.

To plead ignorance seems to be the excuse of Biden and Obama.

"Ignorance is bliss" is the hallmark of the Democrat's campaign.
49

D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

15/10/2008 16:19:08
#44-Southern Gent

This is not a court of law; I have never read anything
here that was anything more than "selective research" based on gut-level opinion, my own included.

If any of us think we are privy to the "facts," we delude ourselves.

I post my opinions and leave everyone to search out their own pre-ordained research sources. We all only find what we are looking for, right ?

However, at the basis of all of these discussions are very clear gut-level feelings that all of us have involving our security, our finances, our place in the world as US citizens, our religious beliefs, etc.
We have most of these in common, but like to believe that we do not, perhaps only to keep the adrenalin flowing.

What is clear is that we are all in new, uncharted territory, with old methods and definitions up for grabs and not much time to waste in fixing problems.

One candidate appears up to the task, in my opinion;
the other does not. Both are respectable men; one is past his prime, the other speaks to other thinking people like himself as a man who has the mental sharpness to handle what he will be inheriting.

One is fully awake; the other needs frequent naps.

In my opinion, all side-stories are irrelevant at this juncture. Both of these men have been fully vetted, although many seem to ask one question about the black one, "just who is this man?" This inquiry has a very unpleasant smell to a majority of Americans, as many of them feel that they have a very good sense of who Obama is, based on their efforts in reading his two books. People connect to his keen mind, his introspection and his ability to see problems from many different directions.

If you personally don't see this - then you simply do not see it ! Period !

"It takes one to know one" is the operative phrase here. There are a majority of people who absolutely connect with many fundamental, human ideas that Obama has expressed in books and speech; they ARE themselves what they
50

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 15/10/2008 16:21:31
this fellow Churchill is a very interesting historical figure. I know that he is highly respected for WW2 leadership. But didn't he supervise some very bad things in South Africa in the very early 1900's? I'm not sure. And didn't he supervise the chemical gas attacks on Iraqis in the 1920's?

I was impressed that every day during WW2 he would drink a bottle of brandy. He would stay up late and rise late. His secretary would bring him newspapers every day for him to read while he was still in bed. And he would start drinking brandy at that time. He was drunk all the time. When he gave his speeches that people loved so much, he was drunk. I don't think poorly of him for his brandy habit. At least he did his job well while drinking. That is much better than an idiot like GW Bush who we are told does not drink at all.
51

D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

15/10/2008 16:22:19
hear in Obama. This is truly a guy in tune with his times.
52

Wally,

By The rivers Of Babylon (USA) 15/10/2008 16:26:26
I guess we are to understand that if Obama wins the election, that Carolyn (#38) will leave our country. I was going to vote for Obama, but I thought it was a useless vain vote anyway because I don't think Obama is really different from MCCain. but Carolyn is starting to make me enthusiastic about voting for him.
53

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 15/10/2008 16:47:49
here is an article that advocates the idea that there's little difference between McCain & Obama. thats how I feel.

http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/8648

The central reality today is that the large majority of the political leaders of America are disloyal to the American people. Just look at the bail-out of corporate aristocracy. and I think the situation is similar in Europe. European governments pledged $2.3 trillion to subsidize their banks as well.

That bailout bill that got so much attention was in planning by the Bush administration for months before it was introduced. It was the Bush admin that introduced it. The overwhelming majority of democrats in both houses supported it. 55% of republicans in the senate supported it and 45% of republicans in the house. Both parties support the corporate aristocracy. and yet the supporters of both parties blame the other party for this fact.

There are other ways to maintain a stable money supply circulating in the economy other than to just tax the people and give the money to corporations that deserve bankruptcy. But none of these things were discussed either in Congress or in the mass media. We were given a crisis and told that without the 1 solution our economy would disintegrate. and no contrary discussion even occurred.

this is how it goes when a mercantile clique has overwhelming power. They own the mass media, they own the politicians. we the people are stupid idiots who are supposed to take sides among their players in their game.
54

Leftie,

UK 15/10/2008 17:01:24
*Poor old Churchill is probably at this very moment turning over in his grave at the thought of being associated with moth-eaten McCain who already has one foot in the grave

55

D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

15/10/2008 17:27:58

If race were NOT an issue, I would venture a guess that the polls would be more in the area of
OBAMA 70% to McCAIN 30% , with the numbers reflecting major generational differences in world view.

Let's make Carolyn's relocation dream come true !
56

A Clamper,

Edinburgh 15/10/2008 17:57:18
Maybe she could relocate to Siberia and stop off in Alaska to take the hockey mom with her. ;)
57

mike - across the pond,

wally 15/10/2008 18:20:19
I agree that there is little between what we both know McCain IS... and what Obama is selling himself as

the problem to ponder is this...

how well do you trust what Obama is selling himself as...

Obama likes to trumpet that McCain voted with his party 90% of the time... PSSSTTT Obama voted with HIS party 97% of the time...

Obama said he could no more abandon Jeremiah Wright than stop being black... then kicked the rev to the curb...

Obama recently told a plumber that he would just have to accept the fact that he was going to have to live with higher taxes so his plans could give monies to the "less advanaged"... then that afternoon he said that he wasnt going to raise taxes...

WHAT is this Obama we are supposed to accept, anyway?

McCain is the evil we know... Obama is the evil we DONT KNOW... which one do YOU want
58

D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

15/10/2008 19:03:59

The following is one of many similar reviews of Obama's book, "Dreams From My Father", which will give anyone a very good idea who this guy is -

"The most any campaign biography ever provides is a sense of the subject's priorities; in other words, you won't find many clues to Obama's specific positions on world issues in the account of his childhood. You will, however, get a feeling of the man, and you will discover an American who has far wider experience of other cultures, and far greater optimism about a multi-cultural society, than any other politician on the scene. Those who proclaim that Obama lacks "experience" in foreign policy are dead wrong; one strong foundation for foreign policy is a knowledge of the rest of the world based on first-hand experience." ( Reader review- from Amazon)

At least get a feel for who this guy is about, what his view of the world is - read the book.


59

SouthernGent,

15/10/2008 19:04:11
#49
I'm a registered independent. A centrist. I have problems with both parties. But since our system requires us to choose one or the other (3rd party is a wasted vote), I want the one with the least intrusion in my life. That leaves out the nanny party (democrats).

The democratic party is an enabling party. They want people to think they need them to survive. So they give them what they think they need. No different than giving an alcoholic alcohol. Short term gratification with long term damage. What needs to happen is to educate them and teach them how to take care of themselves - benefits everybody but the party.

How many non-profit charities are in this country? 1000's. Do they help those that can't help themselves? Yes. So why do you advocate for bigger government? There are other options.

#55
"If race were NOT an issue, I would venture a guess that the polls would be more in the area of
OBAMA 70% to McCAIN 30% , with the numbers reflecting major generational differences in world view."

With this scenario, you fail to take into account the other side of the race issue, that 99% of blacks are also voting "because" of race. Had Obama been white, this group historically voted for the Clintons, which means Obama probably wouldn't even be the democratic nominee.
60

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 15/10/2008 19:33:59
SouthernGent in 59: I take issue with your characterization that 99% of blacks are voting for Obama because of his race. I think it is more like 95% and we should consider that regardless of race the democrat candidates normally get 85-95% of the black vote. I conclude there's no real evidence they vote for him merely because he is allegedly black. Allegedly because he is 50% white, 42% arab and 8% black from what I read.
61

Virginian,

USA 15/10/2008 19:48:32
#50 Wally

Quote: "But didn't he [Churchill] supervise some very bad things in South Africa in the very early 1900's? I'm not sure."

Answer: Wally, if you aren't sure about your information why do you repeat it?

Gossip and false rumors are the result of spreading information that you are not sure is true.

Sir Winston Churchill served honorably in the Boer War in South Africa as a war correspondent.

Churchill was captured by the Boers but was able to escape through his resourcefulness.

It was such experiences that enabled Churchill to be the towering strength that he was during the dark years of WW II.

Churchill was a hero during WW II just as McCain was a hero during the Vietnam War.

Churchill was a POW during the Boer War as McCain was during Vietnam.

President McCain will see the United States to the successful conclusion of the Iraq War just as Churchill did the UK in WW II.

Obama agrees with anti-war hippies like Ayers/Dohrn.

Obama spoke in Chicago in 2002 at the anti-Iraq War Rally when he stated he opposed the war.

Obama said in 2003 that the Iraq War should be stopped and our troops pulled out.

If Obama is elected he has said that he would cut the military appropriations including the anti-missile defense system.

Obama also plans to negotiate with Russia concerning our ICBM's being scrapped.

Unlike Churchill and McCain, Obama and Biden do not place the security of their country first but pander to socialistic and Communistic countries.

Obama is blatantly anti-war while Biden never served in Vietnam because he obtained deferments five times before finally getting out of being drafted by saying that he had asthma as a child.

Biden now makes a big show of sending his son to Iraq as an attorney where he can sit in relative safety in the Green Zone.

Wally, your credibility in this debate has dropped significantly by this post.
62

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 15/10/2008 20:29:40
Thanks Virginian for clearing me up on Churchill in the Boer war. I knew there was a connection. I believe I am correct that in Iraq after WW1 Churchill actually supervised the use of chemical gas on the Iraqis. I believe Churchill was a leader advocating that as well.

In 1940 Churchill decided to bomb civilians in Germany. Hitler wanted to gain an understanding with Churchill that the air forces be limited to combat zones and Churchill wanted to instead bomb civilians. Then 3 months after churchill started bombing german civilians the Germans retaliated. The Brits lost under 70,000 civilians due to the bombing by Germany in the war. The Germans lost I have no idea how many, maybe over 1,000,000 due to the UK & US bombing of German civilians. Here's a link on that.

http://www.the-peoples-forum.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=2910

I wish that Obama agreed with the hippies of the 1960's about the war. The hippies had some very positive attributes. Hey man what if they gave a war and nobody came?!!

Consider the german patriots in Hamburg or Dresden that were incinerated in fires from the bombing. They saw the NAZIs come to power, they saw that it was wrong, they saw the aggression of the NAZI machine. They failed to stop it. They died for this failure. Virginian, a similar fate awaits many Americans.

The one who controls this world ultimately and who will provide order in this world is the one who made this world. We will be allowed to stray from god's laws for a season, but in time there will be change. and we will be stopped. we should be humble and not start wars with people for no reason.
63

SouthernGent,

15/10/2008 21:32:31
#58
"At least get a feel for who this guy is about, what his view of the world is - read the book"

Or you might want to try reading his record in the Illinois Senate and US Senate. Nothing there indicates he is anywhere near the middle, which is where he wants us all to believe he is.
64

Virginian,

USA 15/10/2008 21:41:03
#62 Wally

Quote: "I wish that Obama agreed with the hippies of the 1960's about the war."

Answer: Wally your wish has come true...Obama is completely anti-war and is good friends with old hippies such as Ayers and Dohrn.

Obama has been consistently against the Iraq War and against the US military defending the US.

Obama would cut military appropriations and withdraw the troops in Iraq so that the US would appear to lose the war.

McCain will support the military in Iraq and bring them home in victory.

Quote 2: "The hippies had some very positive attributes."

Answer: Name one positive attribute of the hippies.

Quote 3: "Hey man what if they gave a war and nobody came?!!

Answer: What you mean is if the US is at war and everyone refuses to fight to defend against aggression that we will be better off.

You believe that it is better to roll over and play dead. Simply put, you advocate surrender.

It is easy to see why you would denigrate Churchill, McCain, Colin Powell and other patriots.

It is equally easy to see why you would support Obama, Ayers, Dohrn, Wright, and old hippies.

By the way, Barack Obama completes his hippie-wannabe image when he admitted that in high school he indulged in alcohol, cocaine and marijuana.

The more the public finds out about Obama the more of a danger he is to the nation.

Several other posters here have pointed out that Obama would not even qualify for a security clearance for a government job based on his history and associates.

How could he possibly be cleared to be President of the US with him being an obvious security risk with his "finger on the nuclear weapons button."

The answer to that question is that Obama wouldn't push the button to defend this country because he would have dismantled our defense so as to more easily surrender.

65

SouthernGent,

15/10/2008 22:02:10
#60
Would you also take issue with someone such as Opray Winfrey, who has never endorsed a candidate in her life until Obama came along. Why not Hillary to empower the worlds females?
66

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 15/10/2008 22:48:06
SouthernGent in 66:

I do not think that Oprah Winfrey is a racist simply because she endorsed Obama for president.
67

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 15/10/2008 23:00:21
Virginian in 65:

I take issue with you that our war efforts are done for national defense. The Iraqis did not attack us. We attacked them in 2003. The Afghans did not attack us. We attacked them in 2001. The Somalis did not attack us. We paid Ethiopia in 2006 to overturn their government and our military helped with some ground troops and air attacks. Haiti did not attack us. We sent soldiers in 2005 who threatened death to their president unless he resigned. Sudan did not attack us in the 1990's, but we bombed them. Panama didn't attack us, but we attacked them in 1989. Iran didn't attack us and yet we shot down their civilian airliner back in the 1980's and sank some of their naval vessels. and that was after we paid our friend Saddam Hussein to start a war with them that cost 1,000,000 lives. etc etc etc. This doesn't count covert acts. The CIA reported to congress about 7 years ago that it committs 100,000 crimes a year outside of the US.

Virginian, this is not defense. This is offense. and everybody finds it offensive. Hitler said that the germans must attack or else be attacked. You are just like the germans who believed him.

Regarding Obama being a drug user. I will admit it is disappointing that we have many reports of our recent presidents being drug users. Clinton used marijuana and cocaine well into adulthood even as president. GW Bush used cocaine & marijuana and well into his 30's. The reason he didn't complete his Air National Guard committment in the early 1970's is because of a cocaine addiction.

Our goose is cooked, we have a bunch of druggies running the country and hippies giving them advice. I guess you'll have to shoot them all for the sake of national defense, huh Virginian.

68

2dogs in D.C.,

15/10/2008 23:01:45
I've thrown this one out before-If Ayers is a terrorist,why is he still walking the streets,teaching,and participating in community orginizations? He would have been "rounded up", and shipped to Gitmo,no?
69

2dogs in D.C.,

15/10/2008 23:26:37
#52-Wally-you dog-(said w/respect,2 dogs to another,) Laughed my tail near off on that post. I guess I was never quick enough to catch that sense of humor that evidently resides in you.
70

SouthernGent,

16/10/2008 00:57:53
#67
One doesn't have to be a racist for race to bear on decisions.
71

,

16/10/2008 01:11:42
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
72

Virginian,

USA 16/10/2008 03:55:12
#68 Wally
Quote: "Virginian, this is not defense. This is offense, and everybody finds it offensive."

Answer: Wally, Obama does not offense or defense. Obama wants us disarmed.

Obama wants to cut the military spending, dismantle our missile defense system, bring our troops home from Iraq in defeat instead of in victory and make concessions to adversarial nations such as Iran, Russia and those wanting to "wipe Israel of the map."

73

Virginian,

USA 16/10/2008 04:05:38
#68 Wally

Quote: "Hitler said that the germans (sic) must attack or else be attacked. You are just like the germans (sic) who believed him."

Answer: Wally, Winston Churchill said something along the lines of that the British must fight the enemy on the land, on the beaches, on the oceans and in the air, but that they would never, never, never give up.

I submit that I am just like the British who believed him.
74

Virginian,

USA 16/10/2008 04:26:27
#68 Wally

Quote: "...we have a bunch of druggies running the country and hippies giving them advice. I guess you'll have to shoot them all for the sake of national defense, huh Virginian."

Answer: You must be speaking of Obama, Ayers, Dohrn and their hippie friends.

Noticed that you didn't mention McCain or Palin among the "druggies running the country and with hippies giving them advice."

What are your ideas for the national defense, huh Wally?
75

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 16/10/2008 06:01:23
Virginian, my ideas on national defense are that we should bring all the troops home from the 70 countries they're in and cease hostilities. I think we should cut defense spending by $600 billion, we currently spend over $800 billion on defense when you count their base budget & supplementary war spending. We should mind our own business, make trade arrangements that prosper us and renegotiate our debt. I wish Obama agreed with me.
76

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 16/10/2008 06:12:50
Virginian, I don't want you to think that I don't think there is a purpose for the military. Because we do have enemies and we need to attack them. But even with a $200 billion defense budget we can accomplish this goal.

We need to send the troops into each of the 13 Federal Reserve office locations in this country. It needs to be a coordinated by surprise raid where all their files and computers and everything including top executives & other significant managers are simply seized. All employees of significance should be held in custody while there is a deep investigation and audit into the Federal Reserve's activities. We should find out whatever law-breaking or fraud they've done and prosecute with zeal.

Then we should start creating US dollars as a government. The Federal Reserve is a bigger enemy than any enemy we've ever faced in war and we need to defend ourselves from it.
77

Virginian,

USA 16/10/2008 21:31:42
#77 Wally

"We need to send the troops into each of the 13 Federal Reserve office location...We should find out whatever law-breaking or fraud they've done and prosecute with zeal."

Answer:

Who is the "we" that is going to do all of this?

What "troops" are you talking about sending in?

Sounds like a banana republic coup d'etat if I ever heard one.

Don't think Ron Paul would approve.

78

mike - across the pond,

wally 17/10/2008 16:21:31
"We need to send the troops into each of the 13 Federal Reserve office locations..."

oops theres this little thing called THE CONSTITUTUION prevents that...

the SAME constitution that puts me at odds with Ron Paul, and Mike Huckabee..

the SAME constitution that prevents troops from performing law enforcement during natural disasters... unless of course you are saying that someone in the whitehouse should declare martial law...

and if you were HONEST, you would be forced to acknowledge that TROOPS would not be the optimal forces to be brought to bear in this situation... kinda like doing surgery with.... oh I dont know BULLDOZERS?

now if you are implying that the FBI should be sent in... well those would not be TROOPS... now would they? and the FBI has only limited exposure abroad, so "bringing THEM home" would have little effect on your little scheme...

and if you want to talk about bringing the US financial community to a screeching halt... stop the Federal Reserve... lol you wouldnt have a single financial transaction of ANY kind that could take place

DO some research wally... BEFORE you open your mouth...
79

Carolyn 1,

home in Woods Hole 17/10/2008 17:23:44
@43 That would be Ireland, or Nova Scotia, however, someone did recently suggest to me there's going to be a job opening in Alaska :))

@52 Wally Wally Wally
I'm registered unregistered: I require No Tin Foil Hat despite working with a bunch of lefty lefties.

@63 The Witch
McCarthyism was before my time.
Get with it witch. You're out of touch and in the wrong century.

No collective thinking I.
I believe in Individualism, why don't you?

The government works for the people, not the people working for governemnt.

It's our money, and it's looking good for Question #1, Elimination in two years of our state income tax... ( Citizens for Limited Taxation)
I think it's going to win. Yea, I'm a real pain-in-the-ass to all those liberals:))


 

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