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Richey home in days after plea bargain



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Published Date: 20 December 2007
KENNY Richey, the Scot who was on death row in the United States for 20 years, expects to be home for Christmas after accepting a plea deal that will end his ordeal, but will also prevent him establishing his innocence.
The 43-year-old will walk free from a court in Ohio this afternoon if, as expected, a judge rubber-stamps an agreement that he should plead "no contest" to charges of attempted involuntary manslaughter over a fire in 1986 that killed a two-year-old girl. Although "no contest" is not an official guilty plea, it is widely viewed as an admission of guilt.

The deal is an extraordinary twist in the long-running case, which saw Richey's campaign for freedom backed by the former prime minister Tony Blair, Amnesty International and the late Pope John Paul II.

Richey has always maintained his innocence and had repeatedly said he was looking forward to clearing his name at the forthcoming retrial, due to start in March. In January 2005, he insisted: "It's a matter of honour; no bargains, no deals, no nothing."

The ex-marine will also plead no contest to endangering a child and breaking and entering. He will be freed because his time in jail already exceeds any new sentence that can be imposed.

Richey, whose original murder conviction was overturned by a federal appeals court in August, was sent back to jail to await a new trial for manslaughter and arson next March.

His lawyer, Ken Parsigian, said Richey's first priority would be getting on a plane bound for Edinburgh tomorrow night, landing in Scotland on Saturday morning and celebrating Christmas at home with his mother Eileen in Dalry, Edinburgh.

"It is the greatest present that I or Kenny could have asked for," Mr Parsigian said. "It is a complete victory and more than Kenny and I could ever wish for."

But the acceptance of a deal, so close to the retrial, raises questions over why he would change his mind.

"The state wanted him to plead guilty and Kenny would not do that," said Mr Parsigian.

"They (the prosecutors] have agreed to drop murder, to drop the arson and took the most basic minor face-saving deal of no contest," he said. "There was nothing left for them to fight about."

Richey is in declining health and has suffered at least three heart attacks in custody. Last month, he spent two days in hospital with chest pains. He spent almost two decades on death row until his transfer to Putnam County jail in September.

Gary Lammers, the Putnam County prosecutor who planned to argue at next year's trial that Cynthia Collins died in a fire set by Richey to take revenge on an ex-girlfriend, said last night that he would reserve comment until after today's hearing.

Passions about the case are still strong in Columbus Grove, Ohio, where the fire took place, and Mr Parsigian had sought to have the retrial moved out of Putnam County, claiming that it would have been impossible to find an impartial jury.

Mr Lammers strongly resisted the move.

Richey's American father, James, who lives in Washington state, said last night that his family was delighted his son was about to win his freedom.

"We're very happy, as you would imagine," he said.

"This is something we've been waiting for, for a very long time. I spoke to Kenny two days ago and he was very upbeat."

Richey has spoken in the past about what he first planned to do when he was free.

"There's so much I want to do when I get out, but a cold beer will be pretty high on the list, and of course I'll be giving my mum a bit of a hug."

'A TERRIBLE IRONY'

CLIVE Stafford Smith, director of the anti-death penalty campaign group Reprieve and who has represented Mr Richey since 1992, said: "This case epitomises what is wrong with the capital punishment system.

"An innocent man gets a death sentence because he had an incompetent lawyer at trial, his conviction is reversed two decades later and then he has to enter a plea to avoid a second death sentence.

"There is a terrible irony: when Kenny protested his innocence and insisted on a trial, the state of Ohio sentenced him to death; but now he enters a plea, they set him free."

Alistair Carmichael, chair of the all-party parliamentary group for the abolition of the death penalty, said: "Kenny's experience on death row has been an inhumane one and he will require a great deal of support and help when he is freed."

Kate Allen, Amnesty International's UK director, said: "This is really wonderful news and we're delighted for Kenny and his family."

The full article contains 802 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 19 December 2007 9:43 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Kenny Richey
 
1

Maisie from Morningside,

morningside 20/12/2007 00:53:49
Home???-he went off to fight for the USA.
That tells us where he thinks his home is.
2

Jose,

San Jose CA USA 20/12/2007 01:00:58
You're welcome to him. Please take his murdering brother back too.
3

Scullion,

Canada 20/12/2007 01:11:10
At least there are pockets of sanity in the U.S. as New Jersey just did away with the death penalty.
It is good to see that America and Iran are as one in their refusal to back the U.N. sponsored moratorium on the death penalty (oh, and add that bastion of human rights, China, on to that list).
Shameful.
4

Scythia,

Glasgow 20/12/2007 01:21:14
"CLIVE Stafford Smith, director of the anti-death penalty campaign group Reprieve and who has represented Mr Richey since 1992, said: "This case epitomises what is wrong with the capital punishment system" - no Mr Smith its bleeding heart liberals like you and the human rights industry built around you that a scourge on society. Pleae go away and find a proper job.


This guy is a bad egg, we dont want him here. I understand his brother is serving a murder sentence too.
5

john z,

edinburgh 20/12/2007 04:49:21
I can't believe the comments above. The guy was offered a similar deal over twenty years ago, and would never have entered death row if he had accepted. But sadly, he thought that he would have a fair trial, to prove his innocence. In America???? not so.

The case against him is pure fantasy, and the comments above indicate to a large extent the stupidity of the people involved in keeping this guy in jail for such a long time.

The united States is right up there with China, Iran and other abusers of human rights.

To anyone who has followed this case closely, as I have, it is blindingly clear he is innocent, and rather, it is the USA state prosecutors who know this, but are too weak to publicly admit they screwed up big time.

Dragonhead (china dictatorship) and Jose (USA dictatorship) you both live in countries where your government likes to kill its own people. In the civilised world, we do things differently.
6

john z,

edinburgh 20/12/2007 04:53:35
Once he is back in the UK, I hope he writes a book exposing the lies and corruption involved in the US 'justice' system.

Time and again we see clearly, America is sick, whereas in the not too distant past it was held up to the world as a shining light of hope, truth, justice and democracy
7

john z,

edinburgh 20/12/2007 04:56:19
An undertaker once told me, we don't worry about making mistakes, because we bury our mistakes.

The same mentality works on death row.
8

Phillip,

USA 20/12/2007 05:37:58
Please allow me to express my apologies for my barbaric brethren here in the US who have no problem with state-sponsored murder. It boggles my mind that anyone could support such a horrible policy.

What I find so ironic is that the same people who support the death penalty are also usually the ones who oppose abortion because they claim that "every life is sacred." Apparently one that that isn't sacred to them is consistency.
9

James1480,

20/12/2007 06:26:31
john z, an undertaker told you what? You wouldn't lie about an undertaker just to make a point, would you?

And Phillip, it's not every life that is sacred, it's every INNOCENT life that is sacred.

10

California Scot,

20/12/2007 06:36:46
ahhhh, John Z....I am reading the sidebar on this web page.....Drug-fuelled driver fled country after killing man in head-on crash......Father of stab victim angry over sentence...........Ex-policeman 'obsessed' with child porn
which country is more or less "civilized"?
The death penalty is an emotional issue. In the states in America where it still exists, the belief is that there are certain things a person can do that causes them to forfeit their right to walk amongst us.

I am not sure but I think that murdering a child, preying on the young of one's own species, is probably something we don't want to encourage or perpetuate by a slap on the hand of those who practice it.
Our children are our future. If we don't get rid of those who would prey upon our young, then we are lost. Its the one of the things I like about America......their ability to not be bullied.
I don't knowif this Richey fellow is innocent or not. But I seem to recall reading that he had admitted starting the fire. And the child died in the fire. draw your own conclusions!
11

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 20/12/2007 07:04:55
#1

"Innocent? No he is not!"

....Columbo has spoken.
12

The Wanderer from far off,

20/12/2007 07:52:33
So he is innocent. But he made the plea bargain so I have my doubts but on which side I would fall I don't know. What I would like to point out that the US system is pretty awful, instead of people hanging around for years it should be sentenced, 2 weeks later executed and no mucking around. Better to execute one innocent than let 100 guitly go free. Have a nice day.
13

Sassenach Observer,

20/12/2007 07:52:51
From the BBC Website:

"Kenny Richey, whose conviction was overturned, will plead no contest to attempted involuntary manslaughter and child endangering.

He was convicted in 1987 of an arson attack on an apartment block in an Ohio town which killed Cynthia Collins.

It is thought he will enter a plea on Thursday and then return to Scotland.

The plea would see him being sentenced to time already served. ....

....A no contest plea is not an admission of guilt, but a statement that no defence will be presented.

It is treated like a guilty plea by courts... "





14

dougie fi shandon,

edinburgh 20/12/2007 08:12:03
Well, sing hooray and jump for joy - the CHILD KILLER is coming home....or at least the place he cals home!

No doubt there will be legions of unhinged harpies throwing their knickers at him - I hope one of them is full of razor-blades.

I can accept that he never intended to murder the child - please bear that in mind when he moves in next door to you.

How much for a box of Scottish Bluebell?????
15

Ninian Reid,

Edinburgh 20/12/2007 08:24:38
I suspect Kenny Richey - and Kenny Richey alone - knows the truth. But in the meantime, we must celebrate the fact that he no longer faces the prospect of dying in abject agony , buckled fiercely to a "hospital" gurney while lethal poisons are guided into his bloodstream. Each US execution is an act of gross barbarism and discredits that nation in the eyes of the world;Iraq ,Iran and China notwihstanding. We therefore must congratulate the enlightened state of New Jersey for writing it into their history.
16

Paul Voltaire,

20/12/2007 08:27:19
Not all that long ago Richey was saying he would be glad to face a retrial to prove his complete innocence and that his first trial was a sham etc..
You can argue over the wording of it but he now accepts guilt and makes no attempt to clear his name.
Sure, murder may not have been his intention but his reckless behaviour caused the death of a young child.
What about her?
Where is the compassion of Richey's supporters for Cynthia Collins and her family?
My sympathies lie entirely with the Collins family.
17

\seasider,

Saltcoats 20/12/2007 08:39:35
In a TV news interview that I watched his mother did not seem overjoyed at his impending homecoming,his lady pen pal seemed to have lost interest in him. No doubt the tabloids will queue up for his story rights but at the end of the day the guy pled guilty and was guilty. The human rights crowd etc. are of course back on the bandwagon. For those who claimed to follow the case I think they have read what they want to hear. I think the US attorneys office knew more. From whatI have read his brother is a convicted murderer,(perhaps a genetic link?). As said in a earlier comment I hope he does not move next door to me.
18

AB_R,

20/12/2007 09:02:41
The majority of comments above show that you have not followed this case.
19

Saltiregirl,

20/12/2007 09:09:38
I;m not in a position to comment on his innocence or otherwise.
But please stop twittering on about his brother , that has no relevance to K Richeys case whatsoever, imagine if we were all tarred by what other members of our families got up to!! Just focus on the case/man/facts in questions here.

#19 if you had a clue about genetics, you'd know that the "crossing over" phase of genetic developemnt in utero can produce quite different pheno/genotypes between siblings, so his brothers temperment and Kenny's could feasibly be polar opposites.
20

Jambo Number 1,

20/12/2007 09:13:46
#20

Quite right.

Brilliant news for Kenny and hope he enjoys a peaceful and fulfilling life back in Scotland.
21

Sassenach Observer,

20/12/2007 09:16:31
Let's face it. All lovable Kenny was actually interested in was not frying and getting out. The "innocent" business was essentially a bit of legal bluff. No doubt it his genuine love for his country of birth which is motivating his return and not the attractions of Incapacity Benefit and free NHS treatment - plus the mistaken belief assisted by Scotsman Publications that he is some sort of hero over here.
22

mrsbruce,

Livingston 20/12/2007 09:20:28
His lawyer has stated that he never started the fire, and if you took the time to read the story, you will see that he has had several heart attacks.

I believe he's accepted the plea because if he doesn't he will die in jail fighting his innocence.
23

\seasider,

Saltcoats 20/12/2007 09:30:35
#21
No one is 'twittering on' as you put it merely making observations.
(1) Two brothers in one family convicted and jailed for killing in two different countries?
(2) Agreed genetics are very variable but I would tend to think not in this case do 'polar opposite' temperaments exist.
(3) The case/man/facts are he was found guilty,appealed,was not cleared then admitted guilt.
My sorrows lie with the victims
24

Logie Almond,

20/12/2007 09:32:38
As if we didn't have enough murderous lowlife walking the streets of Edinburgh...
25

Sassenach Observer,

20/12/2007 09:38:42
#24 Donald Findlay QC makes his living saying that people who did things, didn't do them. That's what lawyers do.
26

MnC,

edinburgh 20/12/2007 09:45:10
It's pretty shameful that some of you have felt able to spew your ignorance and or bias in this public place, in Richey's home country, in the days befor he comes home after two decades of incarceration. Please read one of the websites that sets out the scase in full. It is plain that Richey did not commit these crimes and that he has undergone a historic injustice. The reason he is being let off now is that the US Justice System knows that it has done something apalling and wants to extricate itself without having egg on its face. So it hides behind a smokescreen which is Richey's complex verbal plea. The reason why Richey has accepted this, I think, if because he is tired and longing to live again. Many of the prosecutors involved will be Christian so they must answer to their God for this waking death, this sequestration of his life, that they have forced on Richey. They should also, of course, answer to their own consciences. After doing so they should issue a full public apology, offer major compensation and undertake a complete review of the death penalty.
27

ex katman 2,

x sudan 20/12/2007 10:19:37
Everyone is entitled to their opinion,but so many show their ignorance of his case they engage their mouths before engaging their brains.I have kept up with his case as well as i could and this was a glaring miscarriage of justice from the start due in no small part to his incompetant lawyer.So think what you will,but base it on facts and not your (unknown) predudicies.Sure the media will hound him on his return,but he has one hell of a story to tell.Welcome back Kenny and i wish you a great Xmas with your mum,all the best for your future.
28

Lord Darnley,

20/12/2007 10:44:20
#6 Scythia.

Clive Stafford Smith is a lawyer who,for many decades has fought for the rights of innocent people on death row.
He is probably the person best qaulified to comment on this case.
And your qaulifications are .......you read the Daily Mail every day ........you are a BNP member........you once knew a man who met a man who was convicted of shoplifting???
29

McMicrogal,

20/12/2007 10:54:05
Whatever the truth of the case is, what Kenny has undergone is a cruel and unusual punishment. Keeping an individual incarcerated for over 20 years with the threat of death hanging over them all the while is truly a breach of human rights. We wouldn't treat an animal like this.

If an individual is to be executed then let it be within hours of conviction or not at all. This will save years of tax payers money as well as making true criminals realise that they are unlikely to wriggle out of their just deserts.

Please be clear I am not passing any judgement here on the guilt/innocence of Mr Richie.
30

Saltiregirl,

20/12/2007 11:27:10
#25

Agreed,death of a child is indeed a tragedy. So is wrongly incarcinating a man for murder(his conviction was overturned).

1)So what? His brothers actions have no bearing on this particular case, have you ever heard this type of line been used by prosecuters in a court? That will be no as its not relevant.
2)Whether they do or don't in this case is irrelvant, please refer to point 1 above.
3) Your resumé statement is incorrect, can't be ar*sed to give a resumé of the FACTS, though they are there if you had followed the case, (sigh) another poster squaking without basing their opinions on well-reported factual evidence.
31

Silence of the Yams,

20/12/2007 11:32:07
I assume he's avoiding a retrial because the good citizens of Putnam County would return a guilty verdict?
32

Rednose Harry,

Wallasey 20/12/2007 11:35:37
Guilty,beyond reasonable doubt.The foregoing divided comments suggest not.I rest my case.
33

Rambo_the_Jambo,

Edinburgh 20/12/2007 11:55:03
# 4 Jose,San Jose CA USA

Typical comment from a country with one of the worst record of human rights abuse issues in history. How many schoolchildren in this country walk into a school and machine gun to death innocent kids,. How many white police are caught on camera beating black suspects?

Typical redneck

34

S Hamilton,

Embra 20/12/2007 12:04:41
Can we not just refuse him a visa as he is a US citizen and a criminal?
35

\seasider,

Saltcoats 20/12/2007 12:07:20
#34
The man was not wrongly 'incarcerated', he was found guilty by a jury of murder(double)and sentenced accordingly.

#35
Dead right.
36

Paul Voltaire,

20/12/2007 12:10:41
#38
An excellent suggestion.
37

\seasider,

Saltcoats 20/12/2007 12:28:30
#38
Unfortunately not as he holds dual nationality but I have no doubt the American authorities will be only to glad to export him.
38

Paul Voltaire,

20/12/2007 12:41:13
#41
If he has dual nationality, why does it follow that we are stuck with him?
Refuse him entry and send him back I say .
39

Helen,

20/12/2007 12:41:39
Not sure why he's being allowed back into this country as it was his choice to go to the USA in the first place. I don't think he's as innocent as he claims to be. As a pacifist I don't believe in the death penalty, but I do believe life should mean life and he should be spending the rest of it behind bars rather than having the freedom his victim will never get.
40

A Scott,

Glasgow 20/12/2007 13:05:51
I far as I am aware this "Scotsman" (who has pled guilty to killing a child", was born in Holland to an American father and scottish mother . Lived in Edinburgh for a long weekend then was taken along with his killer brother to America. He now returns to his mothers country. Why is it that Scotland and the UK take in every scumbag under the sun Three from Gauntanamo,any killer Australia and Canada want to throw out and the odd terrorist or two that comes a calling and seek political asylum. Now we have this scumbag...........Great jist great
41

Disgusted in the US,

Smalltown, USA 20/12/2007 13:47:53
Have you all gone mad?? How could you forget in all this that an innocent little 2 yr girl died because this bog dweller wanted revenge on his ex?? His experience on death row was an inhumane one??!! What about that little girl burning to death?? Do you "all-party parliamentary group for the abolition of the death penalty" crack smokers think that was humane treatment?? Come on, get your head out of your ar$e$ for just one minute and see this for what it really is. He finally figured out that all he had to do to get out was sign the plea because he had surpassed the number of years he would get at re-trial. He wants to hug his mummy...something that little girl will never be able to do again.

You want him, Scotland....you got him. We'll be sure to send his murdering brother over too when his time is up.
42

AJM2001,

Dallas TX. 20/12/2007 15:00:37
For all the criticism of the death penalty and US Justice System it seems that some have lost sight of the massive problems with crime and social disorder in Scotland. I would suggest people take stock of the appaling crime and danger of walking the streets in Scotland before jumping on their high horse and denegrating the US. I wish the death penalty could be re-instated in Scotland in order that the place be safer when I visit "home" - the ABSO's dont seem to be cutting it !!!!Human Rights my erse......the escalating levels of violence should be confronted with escalating levels of punishmnet. Merry Christmas !
43

Forky,

UK 20/12/2007 15:34:13
44
Well said couldn,t agree more.
44

peter e,

Usa 20/12/2007 15:44:07
It is an established fact that in every nation, for every execution performed, 3 to 10 fewer people are knifed, strangled, shot or otherwise killed. Google it! Also, the swifter the justice, the more people are save.

Now, how many innopcents are you condemming by you "Holier than thou" anti death penalty folks.

45

Rambo_the_Jambo,

Edinburgh 20/12/2007 16:05:33
# AJM2001,Dallas TX.

Ahh, Texas, the execution capital of good old US of A where gun law rules.
46

Smutley,

Embra 20/12/2007 16:35:40
Peter E, it is an established fact that you are completely wrong. Countries which have the death penalty have a higher murder rate.

Even within the USA, states which do not have the death penalty have a lower murder rate.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&did=168#stateswithvwithout

It should be obvious to anyone that the death penalty is nothing to do with deterrence and everything to do with revenge.
47

AJM2001,

Dallas TX 20/12/2007 16:52:57
Rambo.... Having been brought up in Glasgow and spending a couple of years in Pilton I have an idea of life in Scotland, am wondering from where your opinions on Texas derive. ???
48

Henry Johnson-Smith,

England 20/12/2007 16:56:45
If I may be the objective one in this argument with some experience in the field of law and justice, the simple and actual 'truth' is that you are all right AND wrong - at least partially. However in reality none of ‘you’ know anywhere near enough proven factual information to possibly begin to deliberate this mans innocence or guilt.

Let me explain, I am a detective police officer here in England for over 17 years and have dealt with all kinds of crimes from thefts of milk from peoples door steps to murder and arson like the case in question.

I pride myself on being wholly objective in every case without exception. Although I admittedly do not know the full ins and outs of this case, like some of the above commentators express to know, I do have first hand knowledge and experience of the following points;

1) I regularly come into contact with people where all the vast direct and indirect evidence suggests they committed the crime, yet I have doubted their guilt. Equally I regularly come into contact with people who I am certain committed the crime yet there is little or no relevant admissible evidence. And then, as you can probably imagine there are the cases that fall in between the two extremes.

The only persons who truly 'know' who has committed a crime are the perpetrator, the victim (sadly not in this case) or strong direct witnesses of the crime or high quality CCTV footage etc. Forensics can say a lot however must be interpreted to the individual situation. Anybody else, simply does not 'know' who committed the crime.

2) Witnesses, investigators, forensics, CCTV, prosecutors, defence lawyers, juries and judges are not infallible either and ‘do’ (with quite some regularity) get things wrong. All a witness, the investigator, the forensic interpretation and the prosecutor can do is their best to gather, test and present the evidence available to the best of their abilities.

The investigator then decides if they have enough evidence to justify
49

Henry Johnson-Smith,

England 20/12/2007 16:58:16
.... a case which will be either ratified by the prosecutor for trial or dismissed as No Further Action before even going to trial. Where serious and emotive cases such as this one there will always be a desire for the case to be put before a jury to decide at the very least where there is at least ‘some’ evidence however direct, indirect, strong or weak.

3) From experience, what happens in a court room is far from an exploration for the truth. Indeed you have prosecutors and defence lawyers who are good and bad at making their cases by manipulating the facts to suite their case to such an extent that they rarely represent anything near the true facts in question.

This then leaves it up to a jury to decide from what they have been told by this which will also be tainted by the rules of the evidence and the court as certainly not all evidence such as having a brother who is a convicted murderer is allowed to be told to them. Personally I think that that fact could actually be of at least some relevance if both were brought up around violence and or destruction for example would show a propensity to be violent and destructive themselves.

4) Personally the more pieces of evidence there is against the defendant the more I can establish his guilt. In a relatively recent child abduction case dealt with here in England no less than 10 pieces of good and weak, direct and indirect evidence connected the suspect to the crime for which I am satisfied he did it to which he still maintains his innocence.

5) However what must be clearly understood by the worlds public is the complete untruths and inaccuracies reported by the press. Even at grass roots level reporting minor incidents when I have briefed the reporter myself I have been astonished by what have seen broadcasted and published, sometimes careless mistakes but other times blatant exaggerations and outright lies in order to make top head lines.

Nothing represents this more so in England and Europe in the
50

Ayrshire Scot™ ,

20/12/2007 16:58:19
Thats all Edinburgh needs. Another child murderer walking the streets. No doubt he will be on benefits for the rest of his life as well.
51

Henry Johnson-Smith,

England 20/12/2007 16:59:08
... past few months as the recent Madeline McCann child abduction in Portugal case where the press have had the child’s parents and Portuguese police hung drawn and quartered on every daily head line with ’new’ ‘evidence’, ’witness’s’, ’facts’ and ’sightings’ of the little girl for the latter 3 months.

5) Miscarriages of justice 'Do' happen. Cases are made on a ‘wing and a prayer’ with little or no weak evidence. There is perhaps recently none more so than the ongoing Crime Watch TV Reporter Jill DANDO Murder re trial here in in England. Here the only evidence was a single particle of firearms residue, or so the press would have you believe, which going back to the start is just my point exactly - ‘you’ just really don’t know!

What is important for all the concerned parties mentioned above however is the importance of self review of the systems and processes involved and remedies to ensure that they never happen again where a miscarriage of justice has occurred. However for them to ‘learn’ by their mistakes of miscarriages of justice then it is important to at least acknowledge the first place which sadly may not be the case here.

To reiterate ‘we’ simply do not know, and without the facts and the knowledge of the case it is virtually impossible to condemn this man. Beyond all reasonable doubt can be as broad as it is meant to be narrow and defining but without the facts of the case even ‘I’ cannot comment on this mans guilt either.

As for the Death sentence, perhaps if it did not exist then this man would have contested his innocence as he would have had nothing to lose having already served the maximum sentence that could have been passed. Again his guilt cannot be judged by him now deciding to accept the plea as after 20 years Im sure most of us would be prefer to be simply set free rather than dying fighting perhaps an un win able cause…
52

,

20/12/2007 17:33:13
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
53

peter e,

USA 20/12/2007 18:13:23
SMUTley, If you read more than what you find supporting your ideas, you would find that in places like Michigan, where a Governer abolished the death penalty for a while, the murder rate jump us. This has been shown in enough places for most thinking people to see the truth.

Open your eyes and you will see!
54

Silence of the Yams,

20/12/2007 18:21:01
Has been been taken to hospital with ticker trouble so probably won't make it for a Christmas pint in Ryries.
55

,

20/12/2007 18:28:26
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
56

RFM,

Chicago 20/12/2007 18:41:06
To Henry Johnson-Smith;
You are certainly correct that in the philosophical sense none of us can ever "know" anything about the past, except what comes to us in the form of reports of those who claim to have seen, been there or have some special knowledge about it.
Ultimately it is left to the courts to listen to the evidence (testimony that passes the test for reliability, probity and relevance) and find the "facts" of the case. Otherwise nothing could be done about anything that ever occurred in the past, criminal or not.
Richey's case is interesting not for what he is supposed to have done, but rather what the police, the prosecution and the defense agree he did not do. For instance it was never proven, as the prosecutor conceded on appeal, that the fire was intentionally set, by Richey or by anybody. No intentional fire, no arson. Fires happen all the time, that does not make them arson. For example although the State's experts all testified that the fire was accelerated with gasoline and paint thinner, they also admit that no gasoline or paint thinner was found on Richey or his clothing. Strange that a man accused of splashing paint thinner and gasoline managed to avoid splashing any on his hands or clothing.
Although numerous posting vilify Richey for pleading "no contest" that better question is why did the prosecutor offer the deal if he felt that Richey was guilty of arson and murder and he could prove it? It is certainly not up to Richey to prove his innocence. Remember that plea agreements require consent of both parties.
The ugly fact of the Richey case is the prosecution's use of evidence that it conceded was not scientifically reliable, but not withstanding that fact they could still put him to death. If you think of justice as a catch-as-catch-can sort of game, wonderful, but that is not justice.
57

Fabius Maximus,

20/12/2007 18:43:16
Guilty or not,and whether or not he was a monster 20 years ago, long incarceration on Death Row is unlikely to have made him a better man. The US, having imprisoned him, ought now to rehabilitate him and compensate him for wrongful conviction. Then he'll be well enough off not to be on benefits, and with any luck well balanced enough not to be a problem for himself, his mother, and his neighbours - in whichever country he chooses to live.

Whether you support capital punishment or not, it is crazy to have it and not ensure that when the death penalty is sanctioned it is not implemented immediately.
58

Vabeachsusie,

Va.beach 20/12/2007 19:46:06
"no contest” means the same as saying you are guilty.
59

Vabeachsusie,

20/12/2007 19:51:46
Q: What does the "no contest" plea mean?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A: There are three possible pleas to a criminal charge- guilty, not guilty and "nolo contendere" or "no contest." A plea of "no contest" means you don't contest the charges against you. While a "no contest" plea isn't an admission of guilt, it does allow the court to impose a sentence on you. In practical effect, there's no significant difference between a "no contest" plea and a guilty plea.
Why would you want to plead "no contest" instead of "guilty?" If you don't agree that you're guilty, but you believe a judge or jury might find you guilty anyway, you may not want to risk going to trial. In this situation, you may want to agree to an arrangement by which you're allowed to plead "no contest" to the charge, or to a lesser charge, because it'll resolve the case without a trial and won't require you to admit your guilt to criminal acts.

Like a guilty plea, a "no contest" plea waives important constitutional rights, including the right to trial by jury and to confront the witnesses against you. And unless there's some sort of agreement for a deferred adjudication, the court may sentence you on a "no contest" plea as if you pleaded guilty, and you'll have a record of conviction.
60

Haggis MacBagpipes,

Central Canada 20/12/2007 20:34:32
#61 - Fabius Maximus

Let us assume that you were in Richey's place and you, like him, swore that you were not guilty, but for whatever reason you were sentenced to die by lethal injection and you were sent to Death Row to await your punishment. Would you just lie back and await on the jail carrying out the sentence or, as you know you are innocent, would you fight tooth and nail to try and prove your innocence?

By the way you spoke above, because the death penalty was sanctioned Richey or you should've been put to death immediately, would you feel that the justice system were right to put YOU to death immediately, or would you want to stay alive in hopes of proving your innocence?

Don't scoff, sir, none of us know what lies ahead in our live's, you or I or anyone could get caught up, through no fault of our own, in something we are not guilty of, but the finger of Justice is pointing at you and you are sentenced to death, would that be fair and true justice? And because of your beliefs you could be taken to the Death House immediately and put to death by lethal injection.

Would you not want to try and make people realise that you are not guilty and that the Judge and Jury were wrong to say that you were? I'm sure that you would fight and fight damned hard to stay alive...it's the natural thing to do.
Cheers,
Haggis MacBagpipes™©
61

dougie fi shandon,

edinburgh 20/12/2007 21:06:50
Publicist Max Clifford was interviewed on Radio 2 today.

He has been hired by Richey for a while now, and had lined up several newspaper serialisations, TV interviews and a potential book deal.

Look forward to lining the killer's pockets henceforth, whether you like it or not.
62

let he/she who is without sin cast the first stone,

20/12/2007 21:45:42
James
Under the doctrine of original sin and the doctrine of life beginning with conception, there is no innocent life.
Those devotees of fictitious deities do not do well in the fields of logic
63

Fabius Maximus,

20/12/2007 22:52:36
Haggis MacBagpipes
Of course I would fight to prove my innocence, as Kenny Ritchie has done. And there is no doubt that people have been executed for crimes they did not commit - for my part, I don't beleive anybody, including the State, has a right to take a life. I'm glad we no longer have capital punishment in this country. But Kenny Richie has not been cleared - he is having to plead guilty to a lesser charge, one which still holds him responsible for death. He is comming back to Scotland, to his mother's home. She says she is afraid - whether of her son, or for him we don't know. My point remains - what does 20 years on death row do to a man? Can he or his family cope without support? Who should give it? And who will end up picking up the pieces?
64

Smutley,

20/12/2007 22:54:52
Peter E, how then do you explain the fact that in States which do not have the death penalty, the murder rate has declined faster than in States that do have the death penalty?
65

Incandescent,

21/12/2007 00:21:58
The minutae can be debated until hell freezes over, which is not anytime soon, if the "carbon" crew are to be believed. The bottom line is, if his journey was the other way around, he would not be permitted to enter the U.S.A with a criminal conviction, neither should he be permitted to enter this country. Remember the Australian murderer who came straight to Scotland after his release?
66

RFM,

Chicago 21/12/2007 02:24:36
#69
Not true incandescent; at one time long ago perhaps, but no more. Whether you get a visa depends on the consular officer's discretion and there have been a number of convicted felons visiting in America.
67

Trade-wind,

USA 21/12/2007 04:17:31
It must be great living in Scotland. I'd forgotten just
how wonderful my people are and how terrible the people over here in the states are. As for the justice system
here I think they do a proper job really. No better no worse than anywhere else civilized with laws to go by.
In the states they believe you to be innocent until proven guilty by the rules of law laid down in writing
and approved by the people. Yes to be sure the courts and juries make mistakes everywhere. However, it is better to have laws and processes than anarchy. This man was found guilty in that system. All men proclaim their innocents whats new about that. Sad fact is I think a madman has walked free. Sadder still is Scotland gets him. Hopefully he will not live long enough to harm someone, maybe one of mine or yours.
Death penalty is proper in cases where people take other peoples lives to protect the people from it happening again.
As to the comments about school children here running around with weapons (guns in particular) its rubbish.
Really where do you get these crazy ideas. You read one headline and it is an epidemic. Does Chicken Little mean anything to half of you. I will one day return home after my work here is done, but I hope I'm not coming back to live near half of you. Yae are scarrier
than this loon. A wee bit ae common sense cannae hurt anyone there!
Scotland today, Scotland tomorrow, Scotland forever!

 

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Today's Vote

Do you welcome the return of Kenny Richey to Edinburgh?
Yes, he was clearly an innocent man
Yes, he was clearly an innocent man
Yes, but now he should be left alone
Yes, but now he should be left alone
No, he’s just another drain on taxpayers’ money
No, he’s just another drain on taxpayers’ money

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