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Knife thugs 'will roam free under jail plans'

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Published Date: 23 January 2009
SCOTTISH Government plans to curb the use of short-term jail sentences will allow hundreds of knife-wielding criminals to roam the streets unhindered, Labour warned yesterday.
Iain Gray, the Scottish Labour leader, said the vast majority of knife-crime offenders were given short-term jail sentences so, by getting rid of these sentences, Alex Salmond would allow 850 criminals to remain at large, free to carry knives and to
use them.

The First Minister responded by arguing that the SNP had put "record numbers" of police officers on Scotland's streets and insisted that the changes proposed for Scotland's sentencing structure would jail more serious offenders than was the case at present.

The clash over knife crime took place during First Minister's Questions, ahead of a knife-crime summit in the Scottish Parliament today.

That debate, organised by the public petitions committee, will involve police, young people, health workers and politicians.

It follows a campaign by John Muir, whose son Damian was murdered in Greenock in 2007, for automatic prison sentences for those caught carrying knives.

Mr Gray told MSPs the summit was a response to the 15,000 people who signed a petition organised by Mr Muir.

The Labour leader said 81 per cent of knife criminals who went to prison received sentences of six months or less.

"But the First Minister wants to abolish sentences of six months or less.

"That will leave around 850 convicted knife criminals every year on our streets – every high street in this country, free to carry, free to cut and potentially free to kill. Is that really the First Minister's message to the victims of knife crime?"

Mr Salmond said: "My message to victims of crime is that this government has put record numbers of police on to the streets to make sure our communities are safe."

The Sentencing Commission was designed to tackle public criticism of the length of some sentences.

Those committing violence should get long sentences, while the "flotsam and jetsam" of society should not be serving short prison terms, he said.

"That is exactly the move forward that this government is making in the justice system," Mr Salmond added.

Judge pleads for end to Scots blade culture

A JUDGE condemned Scotland's knife culture yesterday, saying: "It has to stop."

Lady Smith criticised those who carry blades as she jailed Raymond Clarkson, who stabbed a teenager four times, leaving him scarred for life.

At the High Court in Glasgow Clarkson, 22, who has a previous conviction for carrying a knife, admitted assaulting 18-year-old Ramsay MacVicar to the danger of his life in Dumbarton Road, Glasgow, on 20 September last year.

Sentencing Clarkson to 47 months in jail, Lady Smith said: "Your victim Ramsay MacVicar had every right to think he could return home that night uninjured, but it didn't happen.

"You stabbed him not just once, but four times. The knife wound to his back passed near major blood vessels.

"Have you thought about what would have happened if the knife had been at a slightly different angle? Mr MacVicar could have died. There is a likelihood you would have been facing a murder charge.

"You got involved in this by carrying a knife and not for the first time. You had been at court less than a month before this incident," Lady Smith told him.

"You simply cannot go around carrying knives. It's dangerous.

"Your victim has been left scarred and daily he will have a reminder of what happened to him because of you behaving in a vicious, cowardly fashion.

"I wonder what was going through your mind and I have to conclude nothing was going through your mind.

"Every time someone like you carries a knife it encourages others to carry knives. It has to stop."

Lady Smith told Clarkson that, but for his early plea of guilty, he would have been jailed for six years.

Mr MacVicar suffered a collapsed lung, a fractured bone and a fractured rib.

Prosecutor Paul Kearney said: "Medical opinion is of the view that a fair amount of force would have been required to inflict all four stab wounds.

"The injuries were potentially life-threatening."





Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 22 January 2009 9:29 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Knife culture
 
1

webwise,

Scotland 22/01/2009 21:53:48
"SCOTTISH Government plans to curb the use of short-term jail sentences will allow hundreds of knife-wielding criminals to roam the streets unhindered, Labour warned yesterday."

Yes, we know, you've created a front page headline around their statement - again.
2

Tracker,

23/01/2009 00:30:26
Knife criminals should not be on the streets.

There is another story today about a knife thug who was sent down for 5 years, so it is not all bad news for the law-abiding citizen. In this case, however, the thug had previously served an 18 month sentence for violent crimes (obviously not long enough) and he just missed a vital artery.

Let's hope the police stop chasing Seargeant Eros and start catching criminals!
3

Conan,

Moffat 23/01/2009 01:56:00
Here we go again ... more hand-wringing from the very people who have not a scintila of a clue about how you treat our criminal element. Here is how it is done;

1. First violent crime either completed or attempted, removed from the UK PERMANENTLY to live out your sorry natural life in a purpose-built prison of HARD LABOUR with the absolute barest minimum of support and comfort to be located on West Falkland, manned by phycotic guards with order to shoot to kill and with 100% immunity of theye ever do.

2. For all other non-violent crimes completed or attempted, the LASH; applied with vigour and without mercy, to be applied on a sliding scale according to the severity of the crime, or attempted crime.

3. For any in 2., above, foolish enough to try for a second helping, they get to join their criminal scum bretheren in West Falkland for the rest of their natural lives.

4. In the event that the criminal is tried and convicted, their solicitor shall join them in their punishment.

Problem solved.
4

Conan the Librarian™,

23/01/2009 02:28:11
3
Wow.

Moffat must be a hellhole.
5

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 23/01/2009 03:42:55
I like the Governments ideas about "House Arrest" for non violent offenders on short sentences, but only if they use the extra prison space to lock up the violent offenders.

There should be mandatory minimum sentences for violent offenders as well as those that carry weapons.

2 years for possessing a weapon, 5 if you brandish it and 10 if you cause any harm to your victim.

It wont deter them, but it will get them off the street for a while.
6

Tatties ower the side,

Johannesburg 23/01/2009 03:47:33
#3 Conan

Hmmm... Not bad thinking. Maybe you could buy Guantanamo Bay when it becomes available next year....
7

Dragonhead,

Dalian,China 23/01/2009 04:37:09
Knife and gun crime? Hand chopping would be very effective.ie first crime right hand.Second offence left hand.Third offence,the head! Squeals of anger at such a barbaric solution.Hmmmmm!That is what the muslims do for common thieves!
Conan,Moffat. You forgot:first offence carrying a knife, Instant 5years service in Afghanistan, after being suitably trained.Those not suitable, to be formed into Labour Battalions (appropriate words those)and employed on mine clearance in Afghanistan,Iraq,Angola (on loan,under contract)or anywhere else the government sees fit.
8

T M,

LA, USA 23/01/2009 06:08:00
OK, let me see if I understand this.

The Scotsman finally lets readers comment on a crime story because this is a story that they feel makes the SNP look bad?

Btw why are people convicted of knife crimes being given short term senteces anyway?
9

Conan,

Moffat 23/01/2009 07:21:44
#4 - my fellow Conan ... no, far from it, Moffat is a very fine place. I can guarantee you that is something along the lines of 'my plan' were to be implimented within a few years there would likely be seen a 99% reduction in all crime.

people have to be brought around to understanding that the only correct and effective way to deal with criminal scum is to crush them mercilessly like the vermin they are - I don't give a rat's rear end what their story or excuse is ... catch them and crush them with no forgiveness and no mercy under any circumstances for any reason.

They made a choice.

Now let them pay for that choice.
10

donald,

glasgow 23/01/2009 07:52:06
Hamish's bias has become so obvious that he has become a bigger bore than a boy band contestant in Big Bruvver.
11

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 23/01/2009 08:56:05
"Clarkson, 22, who has a previous conviction for carrying a knife, admitted assaulting 18-year-old Ramsay MacVicar to the danger of his life in Dumbarton Road, Glasgow, on 20 September last year. Sentencing Clarkson to 47 months in jail,"

So you can stab someone FOUR times and get 4 years - and be out in two for good behaviour, minus time spent on remand - so 18 months is the punishment for attempted murder these days.

We are truly screwed.
12

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 23/01/2009 09:41:59
And does anyone have any idea where Kenny MacAskill is going to be during this conference? Bear in mind that MacAskill is the man who wants to restrict the sale of stanley knives in DIY stores in order to "address" this problem?

I'll tell you. He is flying over to Canada to attend a Burns Supper.

That is typical of the idiot. He proposes rafts of stupid legislation that will hit the innocent, then when he has a chance to affect the handling of the GUILTY, he would rather go to a party.

Sack him NOW Salmond!
13

A.A.,

Edinburgh 23/01/2009 10:13:23
The First Minister responded by arguing that the SNP had put "record numbers" of police officers on Scotland's streets".

Which streets in Scotland I wonder? Certainly not where I live.
14

pwd,

Borders 23/01/2009 11:05:22
The growing divergence of outlook between politicians and many of their public service placemen on the one hand and the people of this country on the other is becoming dangerous. There is a widespread and deep sense of frustration and injustice engendered by the pusillanimous administration of the criminal justice system; by the army of scroungers who are an affront to honest, industrious people and who undermine and abuse the welfare system, and by the seemingly endless plunder of industry by boardrooms and bonus seekers. Together they are like a gangrene eating into and sapping the morale and fortitude of the British people. Their anger will surely grow as it becomes increasingly clear that our 'leaders' are becoming more and more confident in their ability to treat with contempt the wishes of the people.
15

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 23/01/2009 11:20:45
Unless you think that all offenders should be killed or locked up forever then it stands to reason they will eventually be "free to roam the streets".
16

Miss H,

23/01/2009 11:59:59
8 That’s the point isn’t it?

Iain Gray asked this question in Parliament yesterday and Alex Salmond responded by saying that the sentencing commission is designed precisely to tackle public concern about the length of sentences. ‘People who commit violence should get long sentences.’ That’s a quote which strangely enough is not included in this story.

Scrapping short sentences will not mean that people who carry out violent attacks will be roaming the streets. It means that they will be serving a minimum of 6 months instead of a short sentence as at present. Depending on the sentencing commission recommendation it could be a lot longer.
17

Miss H,

23/01/2009 12:03:56
12 That’s what the sentencing commission is about to provide stronger guidelines on sentencing.

But what will happen when the proposal is brought forward is this:

Labour, Lib Dems and possibly Tories will make a hullabaloo about the SNP trying to interfere with the independence of the judicial process.

And lots of the people criticising the SNP for being soft on crime will probably agree with them.

Because the real problem is that, more than any other area of policy I think, justice is a political football.
18

fair scunnered,

edinburgh 23/01/2009 12:13:21
we had 8 years of lab/lib scottish gov,did they up the sentences for knife crime?
no that damn human rights rubbish ,that blair pushed through westminster,and his wee wifie happend to be a human rights lawyer
give a perp 18yrs for knife crime ,and the hand wringers bleat oh hes done 5 yrs let him out were being barbaric
well best thing to do is chain them all up in orange boiler suits,and make them dig the roads for the trams
why just think you could hear renditions of old man river sung whilst on their tea breaks
kids could laugh at them and oaps wallop them with brollies
such public humiliation would soon stop their behaviour
19

fair scunnered,

edinburgh 23/01/2009 12:19:09
whilst we shout about sentencing for knifes,i was the only one who commented on a student found guilty of child porn,yet put on probation because he had low self esteem,and was a graduate
no bloody wonder the worlds gone to hell,you get more for being a drunk driver than a kiddy pervo
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/pornography/Student-addicted-to-child-porn.3588150.jp#3677922
20

W Smith,

Middle East 23/01/2009 14:10:33
We all know how concerned MacAskill and Salmond were, after the attack on Glasgow Airport, about muslims being targeted and attacked in the street.

MacAskill gave us his famous "the full weight of the law will be applied" speech. Suggesting tough sentences would be handed out to Scottish yobs who attack muslims.

Unfortunately, the left-wing radical 79 Group ... eh ...sorry I mean the SNP don't have any concern for non-muslims Scots being victims of the yobs.

Thanks for your concern Alex.

Looking to left wing anarchists, Salmond and MacAskill, to get tough on crime is a complete fantasy.

MacAskill and Salmond did nothing as Saeed stood up at Dundee University and urged muslims not to cooperate with police.

Salmond and MacAskill are becoming experts at picking fights with Westminster while knife yielding Scottish thugs get away with murder.

The word 'useless' comes to mind.
21

Phil1,

Edinburgh 23/01/2009 14:56:52
Look don't complain about the nasty party they cannot afford to build more jails so crime and punishment in Scotland will have to adjust to meet the number of free prison spaces. Kind of makes sense - if this doesn't work then people who get less than 12 months can stay at home on the welfare instead of going to prison.

Its only since they left power last year that Labour have suddenly decided we need more police and tougher and longer sentences for violent crimes. What were they doing since 1999?

Ministers have police protection and chauffeured cars, particularly First minister and Justice Minister so do not know or care what happens to the rest of us
22

Phil1,

Edinburgh 23/01/2009 15:02:21
18 Miss H,23/01/2009 12:03:56
come on you don't believe that rubbish about the sentencing commission being independent - really who appointed the members and writes their standing orders/mission?
In the real world all politicians say one thing in opposition and do another in Government. The Nasty Party are no diffferent to the Labour Party just they haven't had power as long to get really greedy and stuck wityh their 'snouts' into the public trough of cash.
23

Calum Crubag,

23/01/2009 15:34:54
ALEX SALMOND TO STAB EVERYONE SHOCK
by Hamisshhh MacDoasiamtold
24

Calum Crubag,

23/01/2009 15:35:44
SNP TO ISSUE ALL UNDER 18s WITH WEAPONS
by Pravda MacDonnell
25

Calum Crubag,

23/01/2009 15:36:42
NEW EVIDENCE FROM LONDON REVEALS NO KNIFE CRIME UNDER LABOUR/LIB DEM COALITION]
by God Broon
26

Calum Crubag,

23/01/2009 15:37:28
SCOTSMAN REPRINT LABOUR PRESS RELEASE SHOCK
By Nae Surprise
27

Brian Hill,

23/01/2009 15:58:33
Knife thugs 'will roam free under jail plans'

This headline is an insult to anyone with a modicum of intelligence.

I'm at a loss as to why Bill Jamieson and George Kerevan allow their paper to be dragged down to the level of the Sun or worse still, Pravda.

Such headlines are indicative of what the unionists will do to save their crumbling union.

I fear there is much worse to come. Hopefully people will believe their eyes and ears rather than headlines designed to make a cheap, not to mention inaccurate point.

The polls show this to be the case so far.

28

English flag,

23/01/2009 17:19:45
28. Where are you living pal,knife crime in the UK was up 20% in the last 6 months of last year,it's neither "cheap" OR "inaccurate" as you say, it's fact.
29

radge dug,

23/01/2009 18:35:28
Of course, knife crime was unheard of before May 2007 when the SNP took power. In England, the Labour government has shown the way by eradicating all violent crime.

Does the Scotsman think we're all stupid?
30

radge dug,

Dun Eideann 23/01/2009 18:36:59
English flag - i love the way your English pride manifests itself in your beautiful grasp of the English tongue. Why not just speak the original German?

Tha fadachd orm a leughadh an-seo a charaid!
31

St Caledonia,

23/01/2009 18:52:44
This is not an SNP problem, a Labour problem or a Tory problem, its a political problem.
What do you suppose happens to people once they become politicians? Why do they go from intelligent people to silly c#nt in the blink of an eye.

Prisons are expensive, it's a strain on the GDP to look after prisoners and jails cost money - But does that mean you let knife wielding scum back onto the streets?
Why cant politicians sort this out?
We need prisons. So now that we know we need jails the solution is creating a cost effective way of keeping them caged. Why not tents? Put them in army camp type systems, offer them water and dry bread for breakfast, no tv's, radios, pool tables etc, no visitation rights, just seriously hard time with no time for anything other than labour and sleeping.
It is easy to do -
32

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 23/01/2009 20:38:25
And a knife crime in Belguim. And all these knife crime stories are related to the fact that Kenny MacAskill is off to Northern America.

Pathetic.
33

whitegold,

Shire 23/01/2009 22:14:45
To be serious about knife crime is to have a sufficient deterrent early on. Labour have failed on that, and the SNP I'm afraid aren't doing anything either.
34

im brian and so is my wife,

edinburgh 23/01/2009 22:46:00
if the snp made it 10yrs for having a knife,with no parole,they would still be moaning about the thugs rights
till we get rid of the do gooders and hand wringers,hard labour is the answer,no more plasma tvs,phone cards,just 1 visit a month
but no human rights again
kick the thugs where it hurts,sentence should be extreme as its the only way

 

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