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Brown leadership back in question as Kelly quits 'for family reasons'



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Published Date: 25 September 2008
GORDON Brown's political fightback was blown off course yesterday by the shock revelation that Ruth Kelly, the Transport Secretary, is to quit the government.
Her imminent departure – announced about 3am after Downing Street broke protocol and responded to rumours about Ms Kelly's position – meant the Prime Minister was unable to build on a well-received party conference speech as he toured TV and radio studios.

It also reignited speculation about a plot to replace Mr Brown, with Ms Kelly known to be close to David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary and main leadership contender. Ms Kelly will formally leave her post at the next Cabinet reshuffle, now expected within a fortnight.

The mother of four said she had told the Prime Minister in May of her wish to stand down to spend more time with her family. However, confirmation of her departure was being interpreted as No10 attempting to flush out any signs of dissent at the earliest opportunity.

Tom Harris, the transport minister and Glasgow South MP, told The Scotsman he only discovered about his boss's intention to stand down at the next reshuffle at breakfast yesterday. He said: "I'm really disappointed she is going. She is really respected and liked by the industry. I would much prefer if she wasn't going, but I'm a father of two young children myself and I totally understand all the pressure she is under."

On his blog, Mr Harris admitted there would be "much frenzied speculation" about her motives for leaving the government, but said he believed it was for family reasons.

He wrote: "The media would do well to avoid reading between the lines and to accept that, on this occasion, a successful politician has taken a principled and courageous decision to put her family, and her children, first."

However, another minister was reported to have viewed the leaking of Ms Kelly's intentions as a "declaration of war" by Downing Street, while another member of the government said: "Downing Street has pushed out the timing of the announcement for reasons of their own. I have given up trying to understand why they do things like this. It is not helpful."

In her final speech to the conference, Ms Kelly described Mr Brown as a "towering figure" and said the decision to quit had not been taken lightly.

With the Prime Minister watching from the conference platform, Ms Kelly, who entered parliament in 1997, told delegates: "I ask for your understanding when I say that I now owe it to my children and family to put them first. If I do not, then I know that this is something I will come to regret deeply."

But she failed to say that Mr Brown was the right man to lead the party, concluding with the coded remark that "we can and must do even better".

Mr Brown, who came under repeated questioning about Ms Kelly's decision to stand down, said: "There are no political issues between Ruth and me."

In giving the closing address to conference, Harriet Harman, Labour's deputy leader, said the event had confounded doubters who had expected "division and disunity". She said it was clear that Labour activists expected the party "to be loyal – and that includes our Labour MPs".

Forced reshuffle offers range of options

GORDON Brown has several options to replace Ruth Kelly in a reshuffle – immigration minister Liam Byrne, Europe minister Jim Murphy, housing minister Caroline Flint, right, and employment relations minister Pat McFadden.

An alternative would be to move an existing Cabinet minister, such as Northern Ireland Secretary Shaun Woodward or even the Defence and Scottish Secretary Des Browne.

The biggest decision for Mr Brown will be what to do with the three great offices of state – those of Chancellor, Foreign Secretary and Home Secretary. Moving or sacking Alistair Darling from the Treasury would send shock-waves throughout the financial community, and also lose Mr Brown a long-standing ally.

David Miliband has made it known that he wishes to continue at the Foreign Office while Jacqui Smith, the Home Secretary, was promoted to her job only 16 months ago when Mr Brown became leader, and demotion would amount to an admission that he had got it wrong.

PM heads for New York summit to press finance message

GORDON Brown was due in New York last night to attend a United Nations summit on tackling global poverty and to fulfil his pledge to tighten up world banking rules to prevent another financial crisis.

The Prime Minister wants more transparency about banks' debts, tougher rules to prevent investors betting on the future of banks and moves to tackle the bonus culture in financial institutions. which he believes have behaved irresponsibly.

In his Labour conference speech, Mr Brown vowed to do "all it takes" to stabilise markets and "rebuild the world financial system" in coming months. He will address the UN General Assembly tomorrow on progress made towards its eight "millennium development goals".

Set in 2000 and endorsed by 190 countries, these aim to eradicate extreme poverty and hunger, achieve universal primary education, reduce child and maternal mortality, combat diseases such as malaria and HIV/Aids and ensure environmental stability by 2015.

Mr Brown will return to the UK at the weekend with all eyes on the Conservatives, who begin their annual conference on Sunday in Birmingham.

Labour MPs will watch anxiously to see if the Tory leader, David Cameron, is able to emulate Mr Brown's well-received conference speech, and if the Tories can retain their 20-point opinion poll lead.

Parliament returns on 6 October, with a Queen's Speech containing the government's legislative priorities and the Pre-Budget Report on the horizon.


The full article contains 956 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 25 September 2008 9:33 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Labour Party
 
1

karinxxx,

25/09/2008 00:21:39
how do you blow a sinking ship off course.......

jeez is downing street linked to the bermuda triangle is that why the things he promises keep disappearing...........
2

druidh,

edinburgh 25/09/2008 00:27:29
Strange that she should wait until her youngest child starts school before deciding she needs to spend more time at home.
3

Richardinho,

25/09/2008 00:34:42
#2 Is she actually quitting work, or just politics? Don't be surprised if she's taking up some well paid job with a big company who've donated money to the labour party in the past. Most politicians are full of it.
4

TommyKaye,

UK 25/09/2008 00:58:48
Apparently she was jealous of "that" kiss
5

karinxxx,

25/09/2008 00:59:59
4 aye i agree hes on a roll and its downhill all the way.........
6

TommyKaye,

UK 25/09/2008 01:06:30
Labour oh oh not again.............

Shadow charities minister Greg Clark has asked Futurebuilders England to explain why it has deleted from its website references to its £1.8m loan and £200,000 grant to Catz Club.

The childcare charity was forced this month to take back a £7,500 donation to the Labour Party after a Charity Commission investigation.

Charities are forbidden from donating to political parties.

Futurebuilders, the government fund that helps third sector bodies to deliver public services, announced the £2m funding for Catz Club in a press release dated 26 May 2005.

According to Clark's letter to Jonathan Lewis, chief executive of Futurebuilders, the original version of the release was still on the site last month and referred to the loan and the grant. But the paragraph about Catz Club is missing from the current version.
The letter says the list of Futurebuilders investees has been similarly amended. It asks whether the two documents were edited and, if so, why and at whose behest. It also asks about the current state of the investment.

Lewis was unavailable for comment. A spokeswoman for Futurebuilders, which is run by the Adventure Capital Fund, said references to Catz Club had been removed because "it is no longer one of our current investments".

She said the two parties had "agreed to terminate their business relationship on confidential terms satisfactory to both parties".

It emerged last week that the commission had been investigating financial controls and overdue accounts at Catz Club for the past year (17 September, page 1). Its most recently submitted accounts, for the year ending September 2006, showed £850,000 income, £4.25m expenditure and £3.5m debts.
Management of Futurebuilders transferred to the Adventure Capital Fund in April. Richard Gutch, who was chief executive of the fund when the investment to Catz Club was approved, declined to comment.
Clark told Third Sector that it seemed that someone at Futurebui
7

TommyKaye,

UK 25/09/2008 01:08:06
The novice gets knocked back

US Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson rejected Gordon Brown meeting

Hank Paulson, the US Treasury Secretary, is understood to have rejected a request for a meeting with Gordon Brown, delivering a snub to the Prime Minister during his visit to America.

US Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson has rejected a request for a meeting with Gordon Brown.
Mr Brown announced in his Labour Party conference speech that he would be meeting "financial and Government leaders in New York" in a bid to resolve the financial crisis gripping world economies but he is actually now expected to meet only a handful of American financiers. He has also pledged to "rebuild the world financial system".
George Osborne, the shadow Chancellor, expressed surprise over the apparent snub. "I cannot believe that after telling us yesterday that he's the man to sort out the international crisis, Gordon Brown is flying all the way to the US and not meeting the man at the centre of resolving that crisis," he said.
The American Treasury Secretary is currently attempting to establish a $700 billion (£377 billion) bail-out find to take on bad banking debts. He is putting intense pressure on other countries, including Britain, to contribute tens of billions of pounds into the scheme - or to set up similar funds.
8

Itchy,

25/09/2008 01:45:41
#9 two robbing bandits, Brown and Paulson.
9

TommyKaye,

UK 25/09/2008 05:27:05
#9 Your ignorance astonishing.


Brown has no knowledge of the financial markets otherwise Northern Rock and HBOS would not have collapsed ON HIS WATCH I repeat while GORDON BROWN IS THE PRIME MINISTER TWO MAJOR FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS HAVE COLLAPSED NOT ONE BUT TWO - INCREDIBLE.

Hank Paulson whom you dismiss actually has had a real job unlike Mr Brown who like so many Labour poliiticians HAS NEVER HELD DOWN A REAL JOB

Hank Paulson joined Goldman Sachs in 1974, working in the firm's Chicago office. He became a partner in 1982. From 1983 until 1988, Paulson led the Investment Banking group for the Midwest Region, and became managing partner of the Chicago office in 1988. From 1990 to November 1994, he was co-head of Investment Banking, then, Chief Operating Officer from December 1994 to June 1998;[8] eventually succeeding Jon Corzine (now Governor of New Jersey) as its chief executive.

To go through the ranks at Goldman Sachs you have to be good Gordon Brown would never have made it in any bank he has no guts, cannot make tough decisons and bears a grudge.

The funny thing is he probaly thought that he would be like Tony Bliar and get a few bank non exec jobs but who the hell would give him a job anywhere near money!



10

Jimmy Le Pie,

25/09/2008 06:46:02
TommyKaye,

You should just ignore the half-wit ,bring them on.

he's a New Labour Sleaze plant, just like the idiots you saw at the conference, leaping to their feet applauding, when told to.

Sad morons.

Vote SNP, the ONLY party for ALL the people of Scotland

11

Nevsky,

Moscow 25/09/2008 06:54:09
9 Bring them on#

If Brown cannot manage a 10p tax rate without making a complete fool of himself quite how is he going to save the world financial markets.

I would have more faith in dangermouse.
12

Anne,

Eaglesham 25/09/2008 07:18:05
her resignation may be for the more mundane reason of family finances.
She may be about to join her comrades' scramble for cash.

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=16049
13

Boy Wonder,

25/09/2008 07:27:16
Kelly is no loss!

Come to think of it ... none of the Cabinet or the PM would be any great loss if they all went!
14

danielrober,

25/09/2008 07:29:59
Bye, bye.
15

Bejjy,

25/09/2008 07:30:19
As I commented yesterday when this story first broke, Ruth Kelly's pontificating voice and holier than thou attitude makes me think that the reason that she has resigned as the transport secretary so suddenly is that she is being lined up and prepared as the first woman pope. Just a thought that I thought I would share with you all. lol
16

Nevsky,

Moscow 25/09/2008 07:41:10
19 bring them on#

He said it..also going to end word poverty according to the news today.

What he is not doing of course is trying to save any jobs i Scotland and those of his constituents.

Four days at the conference and then straight to New York while Salmond is left to carry the can. Don't you find something slightly remiss about all this?
17

Jimmy Le Pie,

25/09/2008 07:47:09
#22 bring them on

Oh well, at least Comrade Broon has one supporter.

What is the price of your loyalty??

It can't be a safe seat!
18

Marian,

25/09/2008 07:51:22
Its patently obvious that Ruth Kelly has jumped ship before she was pushed and no matter what spin New Labour tries to create through its friends in the media it is also fundamentally impossible for Mr Bean to claw his way back from the ignominy of being the architect of an economy which has excessive property inflation, excessive debt, over-borrowing and a dysfunctional regulatory system.
19

Vote UKIP,

25/09/2008 07:58:36
Kelly has parachuted out of the stricken plane, who's next?

Boy, this UKIP anti-aircraft fire is really starting to reach its target.
20

Citylocal Fife,

Fife News 25/09/2008 08:04:45
Well, the longer it takes Gordon Brown to resign, the less chance there is that Labour will be returned to power in the next election, so there is some good news out there. Labour MP's, esecially those in marginal seats are getting rather worried about this. Many of them want Gordon Brown out before it's too late.
21

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 25/09/2008 08:07:40
Since Kelly has (apparently) wanted to go some months back, all the latest brou haha is mince.

(I applaud any mother who finally gets the message that her natural place is, meantime, in the home with the bairns).
22

Big Red,

Aberdeen 25/09/2008 08:19:09
Hardly a big loss to the country.

This woman was allowed to vote on policy according to her loony religious fundamentalist values, and not what was best for the country as a whole.

Anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-reality it would seem.

Of course, if she lived in the USA she'd be apotential vice-president.
23

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 25/09/2008 08:23:35
Since when has there ever been any question over Gordon Browns leadership? doesnt everybody agree its bad?
24

Duncan in Edinburgh,

25/09/2008 08:26:41
TommyKaye, while it's sad that you feel the need to reproduce Tory press releases as if they were your own thoughts here, it's understandable. But your claim that HBOS has "collapsed" is just so much hot air. You're not the only one at it - this newspaper, the SNP and anyone else whose short term aims are suited by talking down the government have all been saying the same thing. But the thing is, HBOS didn't even come close to collapse, and is certainly not in collapse just now.

The run on its price was the result of poor business decisions by its board. But the business has not collapsed, and is not likely to collapse.

Stop spreading hysteria, or you'll be suspected of being yet another who is trying to make a quick buck out of the sorrows of others.
25

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 25/09/2008 08:30:35
Wow. First he's sorted out hunger in the third world and all disease in Africa and child poverty in this country, now he's going to fix the world banking system. Impressive stuff except Hank Paulson doesn't want to be bothered with this upstart failure who thinks he's going to meet the movers and shakers and have some glory rub off on him in the process.

The man is deluded and needs to get back to reality and preferably resign or hold a general election then he'll know how much he's wanted. No big kiss from the electorate, more a Glasgow one.
26

Douglas,

Bathgate 25/09/2008 08:30:35
Poor family.
27

Duncan in Edinburgh,

25/09/2008 08:37:01
#35 Is your bile based on the fact that Brown didn't actually manage to completely resolve those things you listed? Because the truth is he has done more than any UK politician for 50 years to address each of those issues. You condemn him for not eradicating hunger, disease and poverty? I applaud him for genuinely trying, despite the bitter opposition of people like yourself.
28

Kick the pig party,

Stirling 25/09/2008 08:55:09
#30 (I applaud any mother who finally gets the message that her natural place is, meantime, in the home with the bairns).

There was me thinking that we'd moved on and those 'traditionalist' had all died out long ago. It's certainly not the decision of an outdated, illinformed old man as to where mothers should be.
29

Incandescent,

25/09/2008 08:56:59
#37 Duncan

Are you talking about *Gordon* Brown? If so, you are simply delusional.
30

Guga II,

Rockall 25/09/2008 08:58:16
#4.

You off your meds again, I see.
31

James, Edinburgh,

25/09/2008 08:59:50
#18 Bejjy

I wondered how long it would take Presbyterianism -v- Opus Dei to rear its head!
32

Bejjy,

25/09/2008 09:11:16
#43 James

#18 Bejjy

I wondered how long it would take Presbyterianism -v- Opus Dei to rear its head!

Nothing of the sort; just my attempt at a funny. Ah well, I'll stick to the day job.
33

Duncan in Edinburgh,

25/09/2008 09:15:34
#44 Wasn't there already a woman Pope - Pope Joan? Hence the reason why part of the modern ceremony when a new Pope is elected is someone looking up his robes to check he is a man. This is not a joke.
34

Bejjy,

25/09/2008 09:18:48
#44 Duncan

I didn't know that, learn something new each day.
35

AJ Fife,

25/09/2008 09:31:38
Dunc#45,

Did you apply for the Pope checker job? It brings new meaning to 'working on the tools'.........
36

Alan B,

25/09/2008 09:33:16
No problem with a politician resigning for family reasons etc.

However we have been lied to so much by politicians claiming it to be for family reasons that we simply cannot trust them. Why do the government think it is ok to lie?

All the speculation about Kelly's motives is due the previous lies by politicians. The situation is getting ridiculous.
37

Alasdair Roy,

Aberdeen 25/09/2008 09:33:35
If Ms Kelly wants to spend more time with her family will she be putting aside some time to spend with her constituents? I take it that she still intends staying on the Parliamentary payroll and drawing that quite generous salary.
38

Duncan in Edinburgh,

25/09/2008 09:34:11
#47 Nah. I do sometimes offer similar services on a voluntary basis though.
39

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 25/09/2008 09:49:08
34 New Duncan

"The run on its price was the result of poor business decisions by its board. But the business has not collapsed, and is not likely to collapse."

Your own opinion of course? not a substantiated fact is it? I mean havent the HBOS being doing more or less the same business as most other banks? and as you say they werent in any trouble before the run on their shares so what other conclusion can we come to?
That the FACT that Lloyds were at the time in full negotiations with HBOS and the government over a merger at the time is all coincidental?

"But the thing is, HBOS didn't even come close to collapse, and is certainly not in collapse just now."

So there was no need for a Government assisted "bail out" then?

Your still not posting convincingly enough as an honest hardworking IT something fae Edinburgh mair like a paid Scotsman staff cyber troll.
Youve lost the little subtilty you used to have.
I mean there used to be a miniscule atom of doubt now there is none at all. Should have stuck to old Duncan.
40

AJ Fife,

25/09/2008 09:49:13
#50,

Far too much information, but at least it helps explain your blinkered support of big Gordie!

Didn't the current PM play in the same team as yourself at University?
41

Doh,

Wally Strret 25/09/2008 09:50:10
The Pope, having been invited to address the United Nations, arrives in New York and is wisked away in a private limo. Unfortunately, security delays have made the Pope late for his speech and he instructs his driver to make up the delay by driving as fast as he can. Even with the driver's best efforts, the Pope knows they are still going to arrive late and insists that the driver make even better time. The driver fears for the Pope's safety and hesitates to drive any faster. Now totally frustrated, the Pope tells the driver to get in the back and let him drive.

The Pontiff takes the limo beyond known limits, making incredible turns and wildly dodges in and out of traffic in an effort to reach the United Nations in time. Six blocks from their destination a New York police officer catches up with the limo and pulls them over. Upon approaching the driver's side window and recognizing the Pope immediately, the police officer informs the Pope he was speeding and driving recklessly. The Pope explains "We are in a very big hurry to address an international audience on the most urgent of worldly matters". The officer begs the Pope's pardon and returns to his squad car to make a call to headquarters.

"Get me the chief right away!" the officer demands.

"This is the chief, what's the problem?"

"Chief, this is Roberts. I've pulled over a big shot, and I'm not so sure what to do"

"Who is it, the Mayor?" asks the chief.

"Bigger than that" says the officer.

"Don't tell me you pulled over the Governor!" asks the chief.

"Bigger than the Governor" says the officer.

"Bigger than the Governor! A Senator? A Congressman?"

"Bigger" say the officer.

"Who the hell did you pull over, the President of the United States?!" the chief asks, alarmed.

"Chief, I'm not sure who he is, but his driver is the Pope!"
42

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 25/09/2008 09:52:27
37 New Duncan

So please feel free to name one single individual child lifted out of poverty by Gordon Browns efforts and not the efforts of the childs parents?
Just one. And dont forget the evidence this time.
43

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 25/09/2008 09:55:34
#38 Kick the pig party.

"There was me thinking that we'd moved on and those 'traditionalist' had all died out long ago. It's certainly not the decision of an outdated, illinformed old man as to where mothers should be".

1. 'Moving on' is not necessarily, or even very often, an improvement.

2. Traditions don't just come about by chance. They usually have their origins in practical, plain, commonsense.

3. Illinformed? Look around you! An increasing number of women are giving up good jobs to be with their families. An increasing number of women wish they could be full time mothers and home makers. Delinquency studies show that inadequate parenting is its major cause. We are creatures of nature and in nature the mother plays the key role (in mammals, especially).

4. Isn't the remark about old men both sexist and ageist? You engage in double standards.

5. As Dave remarked above, I applaud domestic women; but I don't compel them.

6. Who, typically, looks after the pre school bairns if both parents work? A man or a women?

Ruth Kelly has done the right thing.

Your comments show you serve a poor cause.
44

Duncan in Edinburgh,

25/09/2008 10:02:18
#51, #54 and no doubt ad infinitum - I am not going to allow you to yank my chain any more. Your juvenile name calling, trolling and personal attacks make you unworthy of debate, and even when I do address your points you pay no attention and seem determined simply to have a go at any cost. So, not playing any more. Grow up or go away.
45

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 25/09/2008 10:02:47
37

Gordon Brown is a right wing conservative since when have right wing conservatives been known to favour eradicating poverty? lets face it how can right wing conservatives maintain the delusion of elitism without poverty?
46

Bejjy,

25/09/2008 10:03:52
#53 Doh

Unlike me you can give up your day job.
47

Yeah1,

25/09/2008 10:04:15
#55

"Traditions don't just come about by chance. They usually have their origins in practical, plain, commonsense."

Women were traditionally burnt at the stake or drowned for being witches, would you say that had its origins in 'practical, plain, commonsense' too? Perhaps you would suggest we should also start doing that again as well?
48

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 25/09/2008 10:09:07
56 New Duncan

I didnt know that what you posted was referred to as debate? I was under the impression your posts are taken as party political released statements and the fact that you refuse or more accurately cant answer any questions with regards to your own party political released statements only enforces that belief.
49

Campaign Lawer,

Elgin 25/09/2008 10:09:19
Interesting comment on the BBC Website - Harriet Harman’s (Minster of Equality) comments at yesterday’s conference.
In a personal attack on Mr Cameron, she said there was something not "quite right" about him.
"He's the kind of man your mother used to warn you about," she said. "He'll promise you the world. But if he ever got his wicked way with you - in the ballot box - you'd never hear from him again."
Can't imagine taking Ms Harriet home to Mum with her anti-male ideas
She must be a dab hand at cooking rabbit for the past men in her life.
50

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 25/09/2008 10:12:20
56

Does this mean you cant find the name of a single child from the multitudes you claim Gordon Brown has lifted from poverty?
How is that possible? surely you have the evidence to hand in order to make that claim in the first place????
You must have seen the evidence for yourself surely??
Or are you simply taking the New Labour party at its word? surely not? not with their track record?
51

E300,

25/09/2008 10:44:41
Isn't it great to see two of what appear to be professional posters with apparently unlimited time on these threads head to head with their opposing but equally daft notions. No prizes are on offer for identifying the two.
52

Calum10,

25/09/2008 11:36:51
Speaking off the record to journalists a Labour Cabinet member said yesterday, "Gordon Brown will be toast by Christmas."

The plot thickens.
53

Duncan in Edinburgh,

25/09/2008 11:48:52
#66 Actually that's quite a thinning of the plot. Before the conference they were briefing that he was out within days.
54

lulach mac gille coemgain,

25/09/2008 12:29:39
Brown leadership back in question as Kelly quits 'for family reasons'

Wuz it evur oot o question ?

Get Real Scotsman - wake up to what’s happenin’ roond aboot - yer like the wee boy wi yer finger in the dike !
55

Jimmy Le Pie,

25/09/2008 12:30:08
Just watched Iain Gray's weekly humiliation at the hands of Eck.

It's getting almost embarrassing watching New Labour Sleaze's pathetic attempts to portray themselves as credible politicians when dealing with a statesman like Alex Salmond.

PS Tavish made a fool of himself yet again, mind you, you would expect nothing less!
56

JayDeeTee,

25/09/2008 12:34:08
What difference does it make if this woman resigns? I'm sure there are people of equal incompetence waiting in the wings to replace her.

#69. Tavish is probably the most embarrassing politician in Scotland, and that is saying something when you consider Bendy and McJoke.
57

Duncan in Edinburgh,

25/09/2008 12:34:28
#69 Didn't see it, but how can he undergo "weekly humiliation" when he has only been in post for about 2 weeks? More hyperbole from a Salmond sycophant, perhaps?
58

vimto,

25/09/2008 12:35:11
LOL! Why oh why do the natz on this thread continue to try and make something out of nothing; Ruth Kelly is a mother of 4 young children,as any mother knows (or should know)the time comes when you have to put your children first,ruth kelly is doing just that,nothing more.
59

vimto,

25/09/2008 12:40:55
69. Salmond a "statesman" more like a cringe worthy piece of bigoted clap trap,hope you all enjoy your winter of discontent,courtesy of Salmond & co!
60

Jimmy Le Pie,

25/09/2008 12:43:53
#71 Duncan

How can it not be a weekly humiliation??

FMQ's are every week

Iain Gray is Sleaze leader until he has to resign.

So it is weekly humiliation.

Simple really, even for you to understand!
61

"Hoots" Fandango,

25/09/2008 12:52:24
72

So she's giving up her job then?
62

JWW,

Whitburn, West Lothian 25/09/2008 12:53:02
Is it possible that Kelly will find a good Nanny once David (Thatcher MK3) Miliband seizes control of New Labour on behalf of his sponsors?
63

Jimmy Le Pie,

25/09/2008 12:53:23
#73

Aye the winter of discontent, orchestrated by the New Labour Sleaze lowlife's who masquerade as union reps.

Funny that even though the English local authorities have offered the same pay rise, there are no strikes there.

Looks like the Comrades are trying to play politics with their members livelyhoods.

You can be sure that the union officials won't be a days pay short in their next paypacket!
64

"Hoots" Fandango,

25/09/2008 12:59:04
Brown

Child poverty the worst since 1997.

Pensioners worse of since 1997.
65

Duncan in Edinburgh,

25/09/2008 13:16:39
#79 www.poverty.org.uk

You are completely mistaken about child poverty, and the above site - independently run - will demonstrate that.

I cannot for the life of me fathom why someone would want to spread a lie of that nature.
66

Davie08,

Edinburgh 25/09/2008 13:16:39
This has to be the shortest 'comeback' in political history. It is also the most protracted death of a political career since Neville Chamberlain. In the name of God go you have sat there too long for all the good you are doing. Apologies to Oliver Cromwell for the slightly incorrect quotation.
67

"Hoots" Fandango,

25/09/2008 13:28:14
"The government's child poverty targets lay in tatters today as new figures showed that 2.9 million children are officially living below the breadline in the UK – up 100,000 since 2005-06.

The statistics, released by the Department for Work and Pensions, push the government even further from its target of halving child poverty by 2010.

It is the second successive year that the government has failed to make progress.

The figures also show that in 2006-07 there were 2.5m pensioners living in poverty, a rise of 300,000. This is the first increase in pensioner poverty since 1998.

The number of children and pensioners in poverty is even higher once housing costs such as rent and mortgages are taken into account. "

Department of Work and Pensions - June 2008.

You're wrong Duncs.
68

Stop buy Scotsman,

25/09/2008 13:34:19
'Brown leadership back in question as Kelly quits 'for family reasons'.

Of course, Kelly left him after see him kissing Sarah. Do you think one (or more) of her babies belong to Gordon?

Vote SNP, the ONLY party for ALL the people of Scotland
69

Rednose Harry,

Wallasey 25/09/2008 13:35:00
Kelly is one of those most likely to lose her seat when the next election is called.In her conference speech she took pride in the passing of the Sustainable Communities Act on to the statute book.The truth is that she oppsed this piece of legislation all the way even failing to attend a meeting on the Bill held at the Reebok Stadium in her own backyard last year.Her claim to have pride in it underlines the pure hypocrisy practised by politicians and they wonder why the public are disaffected with them.Brown is well rid of her.
70

Duncan in Edinburgh,

25/09/2008 13:35:54
#82 You genuinely can't read can you!

You claimed that child poverty was the worst since 1997.

The story you quote tells you that only in the last two years have the government failed to make progress.

The site I pointed you at shows that in fact there are far fewer children in poverty today than in 1997.

You and others don't seem to be able to grasp the difference between 2-year and 10-year comparisons. Perhaps you can think of it this way: who got us to the point in 2005, 8 successive years of drops in child poverty?

For Go'd sake, read www.poverty.org.uk and see the facts for yourself.
71

Davie08,

Edinburgh 25/09/2008 13:51:39
#83 The last cabinet minister to resign during a party confrence was, I believe, Cecil Parkinson. I cast no aspersions.
72

Porky,

West Midlands 25/09/2008 13:52:56
#56 Duncan
As an impartial observer, I see no name calling or insults in #51 & #54 - just straight questions and refuting your points
Don't throw your toys out of the pram - answer the question name one child helped by Brown
Ruth Kelly has the right attitude - family be damned - she's leaving a sinking ship
73

vimto,

25/09/2008 13:55:03
78. As you well know it's the members that vote for or against strike action,not the leadership,so don't try and put the blame on union reps,this is totally down to the Salmond administration.
74

Davie08,

Edinburgh 25/09/2008 13:59:34
Vimto surely council worker is an oxymoron
75

JCA REID,

Annan 25/09/2008 13:59:57
just another hypocries deserting the sinking ship. also there's the matter which will be kept under the carpet of the "wedge" she gets for sering as a minister/Secretary. Will come in handy for the kids' school fees somewhere.
These people give rats a bad name!!
76

"Hoots" Fandango,

25/09/2008 14:04:03
87

Agreed. I was also accused of not being able to read. Duncan also said to me, "You claimed that child poverty was the worst since 1997." I merely reported from the Guardian June 2008 where it said in the headline,

* Number of children living in poverty rises

It went on to say

* "The government's child poverty targets lay in tatters today as new figures showed that 2.9 million children are officially living below the breadline in the UK – up 100,000 since 2005-06."

Further on we have,

* "The statistics, released by the Department for Work and Pensions, push the government even further from its target of halving child poverty by 2010."

and

* "The figures also show that in 2006-07 there were 2.5m pensioners living in poverty, a rise of 300,000. This is the first increase in pensioner poverty since 1998."

My only error was saying it's the worst since 1997. As the article says (re pensioners) "This is the first increase in pensioner poverty since 1998" I was one year out.

This is the thing with Duncan. You show him stats and if they don't agree with HIS stats we are either wrong, stupid or unable to read.

I'll come back when he's stopped having the hissy fit.
77

Porky,

25/09/2008 14:06:51
#68
Luck old Harriet Harwimmin then
78

Jimmy Le Pie,

25/09/2008 14:07:26
#88 vimto

So you're a union rep.

Do you inform your members that they can opt out of paying money towards the Sleaze Party??

They can use this form.

FORM OF EXEMPTION NOTICE
Name of Trade Union
POLITICAL FUND (EXEMPTION NOTICE)

I give notice that I object to contributing to the Political Fund of the Union, and am in consequence exempt, in the manner provided for by Chapter VI of Part 1 of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992, from contributing to that fund.
A.B.

Address………………………………………………………..

…………………….day of…………………….20……………

More details at tinyurl.com/3fuquy
79

Duncan in Edinburgh,

25/09/2008 14:08:09
#91 You genuinely have failed to understand. Excuse me for getting irate when idiocy is being thrust at me. Again you appear not to be able to understand what you quote.

"This is the first increase in pensioner poverty since 1998"

That means pensioner poverty has been DECREASING SINCE 1998.

How hard is this to understand?
80

"Hoots" Fandango,

25/09/2008 14:16:14
Duncan

Stop getting cheeky now.

* June 2007 Poverty among pensioners is set to persist despite government plans to overhaul the state pension system, a leading think tank has said. (IFS)

* 3.9 million children - one in three - are currently (2008) living in poverty in the UK, one of the highest rates in the industrialised world. (www.endchildpoverty.org.uk)

* The proportion of children living in poverty has doubled in the past generation.

* The UK has proportionally more children in poverty than most rich countries.

* In 1999, Tony Blair committed to ending child poverty by 2020.

* In 2006/7, 2.9 million children were living in poverty.

* 600,000 children were lifted out of poverty between 1998 and 2006.

* This compares with a government target of 850,000 to be lifted out of poverty by 2004 and 1.7 million by 2010.
81

"Hoots" Fandango,

25/09/2008 14:17:24
Sorry. Last parts from Joseph Rowntree Foundation.
82

Number 6,

Germany 25/09/2008 14:23:11
Have you ever heard such laughable garbage coming from this deluded, financial incompitent ? Reform the world banking system Brown ? You ?. Nurse ! Nurse !.

As for the idiots applauding him in a show of "Party unity"..... close the door on your way out .
83

"Hoots" Fandango,

25/09/2008 14:23:41
Feb 2008

"The chancellor, Alistair Darling, is holding urgent pre-budget talks with the prime minister and senior cabinet colleagues in a last-ditch push to use the March 12 budget to meet the government's target of halving child poverty by 2010. But amid signs that the grim state of the public finances will prevent the chancellor from boosting tax credits for the poor, Labour is reconciled to missing the 2010 halfway house to abolishing child poverty by 2020."
84

Alan B,

25/09/2008 14:24:20
Brown should call a general election. Democracy is about having the support of the people you lead. Brown has never sought a mandate from the people and lurches from one disaster to another.

It is becoming embarrassing.

If we have an election and he wins then he would have a mandate and everyone would shut up. If as likely he is well beaten (and lets face it you would have to be intellectually challenged to vote labour anymore) then the country can have the party of its choice.
85

Duncan in Edinburgh,

25/09/2008 14:24:59
#95 Perhaps you really need this explained in simple terms.

Let's say someone launches a long term diet plan 11 years ago. Their consumption in 1997 is 20,000 calories a day, and they vow to halve that to 10,000 calories by 2007.

In the first 8 years they manage to shave 1,000 calories off each year, so by 2005 they are down from 20,000 calories to 12,000.

Unfortunately they get tempted by the pies again and in the last two years they add 1,000 calories. So by 2007, instead of being at 10,000 calories a day, they are as 14,000 calories a day.

Would you tell them they were in their worst state since 1997?

Of course not. They have mode a more than 25% cut in their diet since 1997. Even though they have slipped back in the final two years, they are overall in a far better position than they were when they started.

Do you understand this? It's exactly the same concept as the one you seem determined not to understand.

Just because 14,000 isn't 10,000, it is still far lower than 20,000.

Do you see?
86

"Hoots" Fandango,

25/09/2008 14:26:03
Duncan

See previous posts.
87

"Hoots" Fandango,

25/09/2008 14:27:01
"Labour is reconciled to missing the 2010 halfway house to abolishing child poverty by 2020."

"Labour is reconciled to missing the 2010 halfway house to abolishing child poverty by 2020."

"Labour is reconciled to missing the 2010 halfway house to abolishing child poverty by 2020."

"Labour is reconciled to missing the 2010 halfway house to abolishing child poverty by 2020."

Duncan. What part of this do you not understand?
88

"Hoots" Fandango,

25/09/2008 14:27:38
DUNCAN

Yet again - "Labour is reconciled to missing the 2010 halfway house to abolishing child poverty by 2020."

(Feb 2008)
89

"Hoots" Fandango,

25/09/2008 14:29:09
Duncan

Guardian 11th June 2008 Headline


"Up. Up. Up. Child poverty, pensioner poverty, inequality
Gap between richest and poorest families wider despite government efforts."

What part of THIS do you deny?
90

Alan B,

25/09/2008 14:29:11
#"Hoots" Fandango

They may have failed in their targets for child poverty but have done very well to target mp poverty as they have lined their own pockets very nicely.
91

"Hoots" Fandango,

25/09/2008 14:29:45
... or this part Duncan

"Gordon Brown's flagship anti-poverty campaign received a triple blow yesterday with news that a rise in both child and pensioner poverty had left Britain a more unequal country than when Labour came to power in 1997."

It's at http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/jun/11/socialexclusion.children
92

"Hoots" Fandango,

25/09/2008 14:34:11
April 2008 LSE

"Child poverty set to rise under current benefit adjustment rules"

93

Number 6,

Germany 25/09/2008 14:38:24
#107 I can assure you , you are wasting your time trying to get through to him. The defence of the "union" is much much more important than a few lies about relieving poverty.
94

Duncan in Edinburgh,

25/09/2008 14:39:39
#102 "Labour is reconciled to missing the 2010 halfway house to abolishing child poverty by 2020."

In my example: "We won't hit the 10,000 calorie target, but we have still reduced by more than 25%."

Which part of THIS do you not understand?

Missing targets does not equal no reductions!

Why not just read the statistics on www.poverty.org.uk?

Children in low income households:

1997/98 4.4M
1998/99 4.4M
1999/00 4.3M
2000/01 4.1M
2001/02 4.0M
2002/03 3.9M
2003/04 3.7M
2004/05 3.6M
2005/06 3.8M

3.8M < 4.4M

Get it?