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He's back – and says it's third time lucky



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Published Date: 04 October 2008
PETER Mandelson yesterday made a dramatic return to frontline British politics in an extraordinary gamble by Gordon Brown to revitalise his struggling government.
Mr Mandelson, who twice resigned from Tony Blair's administration under a cloud, was given the key post of Business and Enterprise Secretary as Mr Brown carried out a wider than expected reshuffle of his frontbench team.

The Prime Minister said that bringing the EU Trade Commissioner and others into his Cabinet meant he had "serious people doing serious jobs in serious times". Mr Mandelson joked that it was a case of "third time lucky".

The former Hartlepool MP will be made a peer so that he can answer parliamentary questions in the House of Lords, having given up his seat in the Commons when he became Britain's European Commissioner in 2004.

Yesterday, the Prime Minister insisted it was the right decision.

"He has unrivalled experience as the Trade Commissioner of the European Commission," said Mr Brown.

"Everybody has said right round the world that he has done a brilliant job. We need all those people with brilliance and expertise to help us as we meet these uncharted times."

The return of the controversial figure – who along with Tony Blair and Mr Brown was the mastermind behind New Labour – was the most dramatic personnel change made by the Prime Minister. Mr Mandelson's return to government overshadowed other moves in a reshuffle which saw the one-time Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett become Housing Minister, the former Business Secretary, John Hutton, take the defence brief and Ed Miliband appointed to head a new Department for Energy and Climate Change.

The former Defence Secretary, Des Browne, and Ruth Kelly, formerly the Transport Secretary, leave the Cabinet.

Nick Brown, a long-time ally of the Prime Minister, also returns in a surprise promotion as the Chief Whip. The position, however, is not a Cabinet job. The move for Mr Brown could prove controversial with Blairities, but the appointment of Mr Mandelson is designed to placate them.

Mr Mandelson yesterday described his return to Cabinet as a "great challenge and a great opportunity".

"The Prime Minister has asked me to come back," he said. "Our economy – like every other – is facing a very hard challenge as a result of the global financial crisis and in a sense it's all hands on deck."

The move sent shockwaves across Westminster, not least because his relationship with Mr Brown has been frosty ever since he backed Mr Blair rather than him for the leadership.

He will be replaced as EU Trade Commissioner by Baroness Ashton.

None of the more senior posts were changed – Chancellor Alistair Darling, David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary, and Jacqui Smith, the Home Secretary, all remain in their posts. Geoff Hoon is moved from Chief Whip to head up the Transport Department.

• A poll by ICM last night gave Mr Brown a boost for his handling of the financial crisis.

Although the Conservatives are still 12 points ahead of Labour, the survey found that 55 per cent of voters think Mr Brown has handled the economic situation well, against only 39 per cent who say he has performed badly.

A moment of desperation or an inspired political manoeuvre?

IT WAS the move that no-one in the Westminster village saw coming – the return of Peter Mandelson to the heart of government.

Gordon Brown yesterday shocked pundits and politicians alike as he invited one of his biggest enemies back into the fold at a time when he seemed most vulnerable.

On the face of it, it was a surreal development which could only provide ammunition for opposition parties and further destabilise the Labour Party. Known as the Prince of Darkness, Mr Mandelson's toxicity to those who oppose him is infamous.

Was this a desperate measure designed to prop up a desperate Prime Minister? Or was it a decisive act from a leader smarting from being labelled a ditherer, an inspired move to bolster his New Labour credentials?

Mr Brown is facing hostility from the Blairites in his Cabinet and across the party.

Mr Mandelson, who famously decided to back Tony Blair as Labour leader over Mr Brown, could be instrumental in winning their support for the Prime Minister.

However, the move is a huge gamble. The SNP is already briefing that it will use the appointment against Mr Brown in the Glenrothes by-election.

And the gaffe-prone Mr Mandelson will be closely scrutinised, after his two previous departures from government: once as Trade Secretary for an undeclared home loan, then three years later as Northern Ireland Secretary when he became embroiled in passport inquiries Whether it will be "third time lucky" for him in government remains to be seen.

BACKGROUND

"I LOVE you but I can destroy you."

These were the words that, according to Tom Bower's book Gordon Brown: Prime Minister, Peter Mandelson would frequently scream down the phone to his nemesis.

It was ultimately their closeness that tore them apart, but Gordon Brown and Peter Mandelson have been feuding for 15 years. It is believed the Prime Minister had never forgiven Mr Mandelson for backing Tony Blair as Labour leader in May 1994 following the death of John Smith. It is thought he felt betrayed. Relations between the pair continued to be fraught, even after Labour won the election in 1997.

In fact, Mr Mandelson reportedly tried to resign as election chief in 1996 after he and Mr Brown were not even on speaking terms. Mr Blair described the row as a Greek tragedy, involving "two of my best people".

Despite Mr Mandelson being dispatched to Brussels, his lack of support for Mr Brown was still apparent when he called for a leadership election after Mr Blair stepped down and said a "coronation" would be bad for the Labour Party.

However, relations are believed to have thawed this spring. The EU trade commissioner is even said to have had a hand in Mr Brown's recent party conference speech.

Yesterday, Mr Mandelson said: "I get on with (the Prime Minister] fine. I think he's doing an exceptionally good job. Of course, we have had our ups and downs but we have also known each other for over 20 years and originally we worked very well together."


The full article contains 1053 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 03 October 2008 9:47 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Labour Party
 
1

FTH22inarow,

04/10/2008 00:08:02
good grief, just when i thought brown was beginning to look like he belonged, along came a truffle shuffling passport accelerating butty boy with a plan
2

the_figures_are _fudged,

Galashiels 04/10/2008 00:24:26
Remind me again why he left the last 2 times ?

Oh no silly me this is the Scotsman of course they will gloss over all that.
3

Niknaks,

04/10/2008 00:34:01
Again, Lord Mandelson of Old Compton Street...
4

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 04/10/2008 01:04:53
Another blow for democracy.

Unelected Mandelson will be Brown's campaign manager for the next election, and will be a big voice in an otherwise elected cabinet.

Who could be next? Terry Leahy, Richard Branson??

Desperate measures.
5

karinxxx,

04/10/2008 01:32:32
"I LOVE you but I can destroy you."

These were the words that, according to Tom Bower's book Gordon Brown: Prime Minister, Peter Mandelson would frequently scream down the phone to his nemesis

interesting............

i didnt know that ministers loved each other. wow they must have been awfully close musnt they..........

i imagine they had lots of "ups and downs"
6

karinxxx,

04/10/2008 01:35:01
Mr Blair described the row as a Greek tragedy, involving "two of my best people".

now which greek tragedy could mr blair have been talking about?
7

Edward,

04/10/2008 01:50:12
Unelected and Useless
Not only that he will be given a peerage as well
I do believe we are witnessing the start of the end game for Brown, Labour and the Union
8

The Trossachs Hasher,

04/10/2008 03:48:41
What I thought was astounding was the welcome he got when he walked into his new department. All his new staff gathered to welcome him, clapping like performing seals.

Thing is - they all looked genuinely pleased. This was was an tremendous bit of stage management - or was it?
9

donald,

glasgow 04/10/2008 03:57:12
The CIA will be pleased to see him and Murphy back on the gravy train.
10

The Pict.,

04/10/2008 04:32:26
Mr Mandelson should be forced to GIVE UP his ISRAELI citizenship !!!!!!!!!!!!!as an English M.P.
11

Bring it Off,

UK 04/10/2008 04:48:28
Brings a new dimension to the phrase

"Brown nosing"

Although the image it conjours up is not a pretty one.

12

roughrider,

Glasgow 04/10/2008 06:51:13
FFS Broon has lost his marbles if he thinks Mandy will make a differance to the mess he has created over the last 11 years.
Speculating spiv comes to mind.
13

Boy Wonder,

04/10/2008 06:54:56
I can just picture Gordon singing ...

I remember all my life
Raining down as cold as ice,
shadows of a man
A face through a window
Crying in the night
The night goes into
Morning, just another day
Happy people pass my way
Looking in their eyes
I see a memory
I never realized
how happy you made me ... oh Mandy

Well you came and you gave without taking
but you got sent away, oh Mandy
well you're back and you'll stop me from shaking
And I need you today, oh Mandy ...

In the immortal words of Charlie Brown ... good grief!!!
14

FedUpTaxPayer,

Edinburgh 04/10/2008 07:07:40
Oh my god, so the Prince of Incompetence brings back the Prince of Darkness. Could somebody remind me again how many times he had to resign in disgrace,

Why not go the whole hog and bring back the Princes of Lies and War... Maybe there's room for Mugabe too, I hear whilst the man is a disgrace as a polition, he's good at winning elections...
15

notime4anovice,

glasgow 04/10/2008 07:10:35
Mandy's knowledge of mortgage fraud will be a great help to the PM.
It must be getting tough in the bunker...

http://thecrownblogspot.blogspot.com/2008/09/gordon-browns-downfall-house-price.html
16

,

04/10/2008 07:14:04
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
17

,

04/10/2008 07:17:33
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
18

steve 1511,

aberdeen 04/10/2008 07:40:22
this appointment proves once again the level of sleaze and corruption that infects every level of liebour
19

catgut,

biggotland 04/10/2008 07:53:40
why make manday a lady when she can stand in the glenrothes byelection.
bet gordie is right worried about manday being right behind him.
is it possible manday could be on the board of nothern rock homeloans dept.
has broon gone mad?
20

Old Siggy,

Dunbar 04/10/2008 07:59:03
The barrel is now being well and truly scraped but then maybe Brown would prefer to have Mandelson inside the tent p*ssing out than outside the tent p*ssing in. In the words of General Sun Tzu "keep your friends close and your enemies closer".
21

MacGillicuddy,

04/10/2008 08:20:11
Once again Broon and his Liebour Party show their utter contempt for democracy by including even more unelected people in the Cabinet.
I wonder just how much "brown nosing" Lord Mandy of Hampstead HAD to do.
22

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 04/10/2008 08:27:56
These people have absolutely no shame. He gets off with obtaining monetary gain through deception yet neither he, Broon, Bliar or any of his cronies in the UK or European political elite see anything wrong in that. Power is theirs by right and morality is for the Little People. Not been elected? A very minor inconvenience. The sight of his grinning face literally almost makes me sick.
23

Nubar Gulbenkian,

04/10/2008 08:40:17
Looks like Broon has bent over backwards for his erstwhile adversary.
24

Douglas,

Bathgate 04/10/2008 08:44:51
Aye, you all laughed at L Ron Hubbard and his reptilian master race. Well who's giggling like a girl now?
25

Marian,

04/10/2008 08:54:14
New Labour is full of parasites, who enrich themselves constantly at the taxpayers' expense. They routinely abuse power, lie and suppress and manipulate the truth. They never admit error or failure, they always shuffle responsibility onto someone else. In daily life, unlike the old Establishment, they are graceless and self-obsessed. In sum, they have no standards whatever except their own advancement. Yet they are indignant when anyone exposes their behaviour and turn savagely on those who call them to account. New Labour leaders boast constantly about their professionalism and surround themselves with armies of expensive consultants and experts but have proved spectacularly incompetent in matters great and small. Apart from Iraq they have given us the Northern Rock and HBOS debacles, endless botched reorganizations of the NHS, a string of IT disasters (and ID cards in waiting), farm payments, the prison crisis, inadequate armed forces equipment, housing and medical care, incoherent and failed policies on drink, drugs and gambling, the Millennium Dome, school meals... Almost nothing these people touch works properly. They have recruited large sections of the media to print or broadcast their propaganda as fact. That is what spin doctoring means and it requires willing collaborators in the media. Some of the media have done even worse, and propagated deliberate lies or character assassination at the behest of New Labour. More and more of the media, and its members, are becoming indistinguishable from New Labour. They routinely trade jobs and careers - New Labour politicians become expensively paid columnists, journalists join the government machine and give orders to civil servants. New Labour gets angry with journalists only when they break ranks and refuse to play the game. In spite of their shrill complaints. The Blair and Brown governments have had a remarkably easy ride from the media. Nearly all of their biggest decisions were endorsed and promoted by the medi
26

Marian,

04/10/2008 08:54:48
Continued...
Nearly all of their biggest decisions were endorsed and promoted by the media and their propaganda was rarely, if ever, dissected or challenged. They fret publicly about public apathy and disengagement from the political process - but New Labour actually depend on it. They do not want people to become engaged in politics. It is no coincidence that their remedies for low voter turnout are postal voting and text or online voting - all of them ways of voting which are more passive and unthinking than the traditional ballot box (and all of them, incidentally, a major threat to the secret ballot and the integrity of the election process). They need an apathetic, acquiescent electorate in the same way that Basil Fawlty depended on the supine, downtrodden guests at Fawlty Towers. However New Labour appears to be oblivious to the fact that most Voters will first and foremost be judging New Labour's 11 year governance of the UK and Scotland against what the other parties are going to offer when deciding who to vote for at the next election and they will want something different this time in the way the UK and Scotland is governed NOT more of the same old tired and failed governance from New Labour.
27

kpm,

unsworth 04/10/2008 08:58:16
Bringing back Mandleson, now Ive heard the lot.
28

Joe90,

and getting tired 04/10/2008 09:02:02
So crime, sleaze and corruption DO pay...

The gravy train standing at platform nine and three quarters departs in ten minutes for the House of Lords.
29

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 04/10/2008 09:05:44
#27 Marian

Excellent post. You're absolutely right. It all stems from the professionalisation of polictics. We need a return to the days when politicians had a genuine hinterland and experience of life in the real world. Now we have the likes of Broon, Jim Murphy, Douglas Alexander, whose only goal in life, since they were sad wee student activists, was power.
30

scottish person,

paisley 04/10/2008 09:09:45
Alex Salmond send Broon his thanks.
Thanks for losing your marbles..
31

scottish person,

paisley 04/10/2008 09:11:23
I notice the Daily Rectum is saying that the labour shuffle will be good for all of us. Are they shuffling out of downing street, or what.
32

A Crofter,

Western Isles 04/10/2008 09:13:10
Particularly like Mandy's quote above: "..... and in a sense it's all hands on deck".

This sailor has clearly been at sea far too long.
33

megz,

glasgow 04/10/2008 09:19:47
I guess brown has forgiven him now for the gay rumour about him.
34

Ananurhing,

04/10/2008 09:32:49
#35 Megz

A rumour is only a rumour if there's an element of ambiguity to it.
35

Ananurhing,

04/10/2008 09:37:40
Labour are starting to look like a suicide cult, that believe in reincarnation after political death!
Hoon, Beckett, Mandy, Foulkes even! We've not seen the last of Browne either. Desperate barrel scraping stuff!
36

Paddi,

04/10/2008 10:05:47
Unelected EU trade commisioner and now unelected "public servant" becomes cabinet minister......you couldn't make it up! watch the polls, the tories will be +25 after this grubby announcement
37

Ananurhing,

04/10/2008 10:25:24
#21 Old Siggy
"In the words of General Sun Tzu "keep your friends close and your enemies closer"

Sun Tzu also said, "He will conquer who has learned the art of deviation."
Take from that what you will!
38

TWC,

Ayrshire 04/10/2008 10:45:10
New Labour can see the writing on the wall, these were the conditions for allowing Brown to stay.
Des Browne must have (rightly ) refused to accept the Triple Secretary's job because all three countries want Financial control.
Old Labour are rumbling in the wings; "courage Brothers Do Not Sumble".
We are even bringing in those who have been found guilty -- so much for cleaner politics.
39

Rickie,

Levenmouth (a bit of the Glenrothes thing) 04/10/2008 11:01:40
I can see the bottom of the barrel and there's one left - it's pretty rotten but we'll use it anyway
40

Johnnyf,

Scotland 04/10/2008 11:14:48
I have never read such venomous, libelous nonsense in all my life.
As for #4 Andrew talking about democracy, the tories appointed Alec Douglas Hume as Prime Minister in 1963. Hume renounced his title so that he could sit in the House of Commons.They found him the safest seat in the country, Perth & Kinross and Hume ran the country for a couple of weeks completely unelected, a member of neither the Lords or Commons. I don't remember this hoo-hah either when the tory faithful stabbed Thatcher in the back and replaced her with Major.
I know Mandelson's a bit dodgy, but he has talent and experience in financial matters but Churchill was a dodgy politician (disaster in the Admiralty, changing parties while an elected MP and consequently being literally chased out of Dundee) and he is considered to be a great wartime leader and let's face it this is a worldwide financial war we are living in just now.
Cameron and Osbourne are no friends to the working and socially underprivilleged people of this country despite their hollow promises. Seen and heard it all before.
41

Jacqueline Hyde ,

On the shelf 04/10/2008 11:23:58
Someone, somewhere is surely taking the p1zz out of us all.
42

English Bob,

England 04/10/2008 11:31:51
Third time unlucky for us!

How dare McBroon in inflict this unelected euro mincer on us? What a greasy boomerang.

43

Calum10,

04/10/2008 11:31:52
All Gordon Brown has done is give voters more reasons to punish Labour at the ballot box.

I'm sure that Labour activists are now dreading the prospect of knocking on doors in Glenrothes.

There can be no escaping the fact that Peter Mandelson represents everthing that is wrong with the Labour party: Sleaze - Spin - Mendacity - Corruption - Snout Driven Politics.
44

Stirling Sentinel,

Stirling 04/10/2008 11:39:00
#27 & #28
Could Marian find out about paragraphs. His postings are hard work to read although content OK
45

dido-bendigo,

Scotland 04/10/2008 11:55:15
#41 Rickie

So it was Mandies turn in the barrel then? Hmm! I wonder if Gordie know how to brick a camel?
46

jdships,

04/10/2008 12:00:40

42 Johnnyf,

" Cameron and Osbourne are no friends to the working and socially underprivilleged people of this country despite their hollow promises. Seen and heard it all before."

You have the cheek to accuse the tories when
Peter Mandelson represents everthing that is wrong with the Labour party: Sleaze - Spin - Mendacity - Corruption and simple greed .
Mandelson , Beckett, Hoon "tried and found guilty" five years ago why should they be any different in 2008

Mandelson = Albatross

"None so blind as those who cannot see " comes to mind
47

notime4anovice,

glasgow 04/10/2008 12:17:04
#42 JohnnyF

I don't see how bringing back the oily oik from the EU trough can help us through the financial crisis. He's not capable of filling in his own mortgage application form without getting into trouble and resigning.
How can he help us ? He'll just drive a wedge through the cabinet and cause major distractions at the very time we need unity.
48

Pilrig,

Livingston 04/10/2008 12:53:57
Mandy - Broon's solution to Britain's problems.
With buddies like these, who needs enemies ?
49

Pilrig,

Livingston 04/10/2008 13:00:21
What's next ? appointments for Jeffrey Archer, Henry McLeish...
50

bluehead,

edinburgh 04/10/2008 13:36:23
this must be the final proof that per auld broonie has lost his marbles,mandelson just has to stand there and labour will lose another million votes,I am surprised that no one has told brown how silly he is making such a decision,! the labour party will now become redundant
that was the last nail for Gordy boy!!!!!!!!!
51

An Greumach Mor,

Scotland 04/10/2008 13:51:07
As a political operator in the sleazey world of Westminster Mandy is the best. It makes sense for a party without morals, without direction and without a effing clue to select someone like Lord Mandy of Hampstead Heath to help it slide further down the slipper pole into the sh it.

People have always said Mandy prefers the Brown route, and Gordon should be quite reassured, he will be in a safe pair of hands with Mandy standing behind him as his right hand man.
52

Pilrig,

Livingston 04/10/2008 15:10:00
52 - mandy, a working class hero. Re the Mail, to quote Richard Littlejohn aboot Mandy;

"Malignant, malevolent, mendacious - this creep is a cancer on British life."

"The living embodiment of all that is rotten and disreputable about New Labour."

"Odious, discredited creep"

"Campbell was the sewer, but Mandelson was pure sewage."

53

roughrider,

Glasgow 04/10/2008 15:49:56
I see we have a thick kentish lump of wood who knows fick all about salmond or Scotland.
Where do Liebour get these idiots from?
54

notime4anovice,

glasgow 04/10/2008 16:15:24
I wouldn't be surprised to see Gary Glitter and Robin Cook in the Cabinet at this rate.
55

David Gerard,

London 04/10/2008 16:22:45
Mr Mandelson has had a chequered career in office. Previous Cabinet terms have ended with unfortunate resignations due to being beheaded by angry villagers, burnt at the stake, wrapped in chains and thrown to the bottom of the Volga and, in one case, nuked from orbit.

My blog rant: http://tinyurl.com/4o747b
56

Pilrig,

Livingston 04/10/2008 17:47:14
62 - if they really wanted to punish him they could have sent him to Tynecastle every other Saturday.
57

invictager,

Kent 04/10/2008 17:49:40
#60
Im also from Kent but Im as Scottish as anyone here.Where does it say in the rules you have to currently live in Scotland to have an opinion.

Thinking Salmond is a useless piece of lard does not disqualify you from posting or there would be few people left to write anything.
58

Scotish Exile,

04/10/2008 17:59:46
a desperate decision from a desperate man...dear oh dear, oh dear!
59

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

04/10/2008 18:04:58
Mandelson does have a reputation of being an able politician - one who knows when to make the right move. I actually see him having a lot in common with our First Minister - both usually push people to love or loathe them. Both are articulate and shrewd political tacticians.

Clearly Mandelson has been brought back to run the General Election campaign. I just find it odd that Brown has left it so, so late to do so. Mandelson would probably have made sure that many of the media disasters that Brown has had would not have happened or would have been minimised.

He might make somedifference to Labour's campaign but I suspect that it will be too little, too late.
60

invictager,

Kent 04/10/2008 18:11:20
#66
There is moore chance of you posting a picture of yourself wearing make up and Daphne's best dress than there is of Salmond ever making it out of the "c" list of politics. Unless he moves down a level or three.
61

Morbo,

04/10/2008 18:12:14
I think the theory goes like this: if you surround yourself with hated or downright ugly people then you look better by comparison. Just as the whole country must be thinking "anybody but Brown" then Brown offers us Mandy as a form of smelling salts to wake us up. Unfortunately, Brown is mistaken and I and others will be insulted by this tactic.

So how many pensions is Mandy going to collect?

An unelected minister for an unelected PM. Perfect.
62

I must have annoyed somebody earlier,

04/10/2008 18:20:10
invictager

Another "new" name appears by magic. May all your problems be insurmountable.

PS. You are not from Kent (according to my ping thing)
63

European Scot,

04/10/2008 18:24:34
64 invictager

" Im also from Kent but Im as Scottish as anyone here.Where does it say in the rules you have to currently live in Scotland to have an opinion."

" Thinking Salmond is a useless piece of lard does not disqualify you from posting or there would be few people left to write anything. "

Did you manage to write that all on your own, and without any help ?
Judging from the result, it would seem so.
Perhaps you should seek help.
64

invictager,

Kent 04/10/2008 18:29:13
#70
New name?? Funny guy.

Try looking on the footie forums for the past year or so. Or are we confined to commenting on one subject then?

Obviously only SNP supporters allowed to comment, very democratic.

Dont know anything about your ping thing but it is obviously about as good as Alex Salmond as I am sitting in my living room in Folkestone ( was in Kent last time I checked) as I type.

Ps for confirmation I have just asked my son who is sitting acroos from me. He is also pretty sure we are in Kent.
65

Paddi,

04/10/2008 18:45:24
remove the E and replace with a U, and you and your son are a pair of them.
66

invictager,

Kent 04/10/2008 18:57:21
#71
Yes I did manage it all on my own. However in view of your obvious lack of understanding I should point out that I made no actual attack on Salmond but merely commented on roughrider(60) dismissing happy english (59)as knowing nothing because he gave his location as Kent. I was making the simple observation that not everyone in Kent is English or has no interest in Scotland

#73
Why thank you. Another piece of sparkling wit in response to a harmless comment. My son, who is also Scottish, would like to congratulate you on your tolerant attitude to others.

It seems the posters on here are determined to reinforce the intolerance of anything remotely connected to England.
67

Darien,

Panama 04/10/2008 19:05:11
F**k all BritNat Unionists. Viva Ecosse. Here's tae us, wha's like us. Naebody.
68

European Scot,

04/10/2008 19:24:32
74 invictager

" I should point out that I made no actual attack on Salmond but merely commented on roughrider(60) dismissing happy english (59)as knowing nothing because he gave his location as Kent. "

Comment: " There is 'moore' chance of you posting a picture of yourself wearing make up and Daphne's best dress than there is of Salmond ever making it out of the "c" list of politics. Unless he moves down a level or three."

The comment : " Dont know anything about your ping thing but it is obviously about as good as Alex Salmond ..."

Neither of these comments could be construed as" actual attacks on Salmond.," but they're not exactly ringing endorsements either in my opinion, and that is in spite of my 'obvious lack of understanding' !

Let me suggest to you that the bulk of those who support the SNP, and Independence are not intolerant of the English.
In fact there are also many English people who actively support the SNP.
In my own case I have English family, and many English friends.
Don't fall for the stereotypes dreamt up by Unionists.
All is not what they would have it seem to be !
69

invictager,

Kent 04/10/2008 19:36:58
I agree I made a couple of wisecracks about him in my following posts but I was clarifying my opening one.

The "ping" comment was a joke because whatever was meant by I must have....(70) I am in Kent and could see no reason for that poster claiming I wasn't. In fact if he had known anything about the area even my username is a clue.

I was not actaully inferring you were anti English but some of the other posts step mighty close to it.

I think I will go back to the footie threads where even the abuse is friendlier.
70

invictager,

Kent 04/10/2008 19:46:03
#76
Here is one for you given your moniker.

If Scotland went independent would you like to be in the EU which by nature is inclined to attempt to control everthing you do, and is responsible for a large proportion of the laws passed on by the English.
71

Darien,

Panama 04/10/2008 19:47:40
Another NewLab Que*er. Brown must be so proud.
72

I must have annoyed somebody earlier,

04/10/2008 19:48:18
77

Ping was just a wind up. I'm in Bromley. It seemed a bit mad that there are three of us from Kent posting on the Scotsman. I live up to my user name.
73

I must have annoyed somebody earlier,

04/10/2008 19:49:04
78 (un-pinged)

I'll answer that one. Yes.
74

invictager,

Kent 04/10/2008 19:53:01
#80
I think I will have to change mine to "I seem to have annoyed everybody".
PS
Do you have confirmation of your location.
PPS
I always think of Bromley as London.Its near enough. Much nicer here on the coast.
75

I must have annoyed somebody earlier,

04/10/2008 19:55:00
82 invictager

"Do you have confirmation of your location."

Trust me.

ps. I'll probably be annoying again tomoorow.

Good evening.
76

invictager,

Kent 04/10/2008 19:55:00
#81
Why swap one "dictator" for another.
77

I must have annoyed somebody earlier,

04/10/2008 19:55:18
tomoorow is a new word.
78

invictager,

Kent 04/10/2008 19:56:24
If you get bored talking about Mandy try the footie threads.
79

European Scot,

04/10/2008 20:23:07
78 Invictager

" If Scotland went independent would you like to be in the EU which by nature is inclined to attempt to control everthing you do, and is responsible for a large proportion of the laws passed on by the English."

I regularly cross the channel on a car ferry, and the name 'Invicta' does seem to ring some ship's bells !
As for my moniker, well I do support the EU in principle.
At least within that Union Scotland would have an International identity and a voice and votes.
This idea that some faceless European from Brussels holds sway over everyone is a bit of a nonsense. It's a group of individual countries that make up the EU.
An Independent Scotland would be a part of that mechanism, and it should be remembered that collectively it's the smaller Nations of the EU that have more votes than the larger, seemingly more predominant ones.
It isn't perfect by any means, but it does at least recognise the individuality of its member countries. Look at what little old Ireland managed to achieve with its no vote.
In the UK, Scotland is virtually a region as far as the rest of the World is concerned, with no voice, or vote of its own, and it has no status as a Country, or as a Nation.
In Europe it would have, as well as having membership of the UN.
You are correct that some posters are anti English, but as far as I am concerned that is a minority, and they certainly don't help the cause of Independence.
Anyway if you are connected with the car ferries, and you see a French car, with a distinguished looking driver some time over the pre-Christmas period ,,,,, ! !
80

invictager,

Kent 04/10/2008 20:43:03
#87
A reasonable argument although the plans to limit the number of commisioners don't help. I have to say my own view is that the EU is pretty much run for the benefit of the French farming industry and that any public body that simply asks you to vote again when they don't like the initial decsion is not good for democracy.

I certainly am connected with the ferries and would venture to say you cannot pass through Calais without talking to me or a colleague.

Im not allowed to talk about what I do (secrets etc cough cough) but if you meet a fat fellow Scot who demands your passport then who knows.
81

European Scot,

04/10/2008 20:59:14
88 invictager

I promise to be polite when asked to open the boot !
Unfortunately for the moment I only have a British passport, although it does have European Union printed on it !
I'm hoping to change it for a Scottish one in the near future !
82

Van (not white) Diesel,

Amsterdam & Augsburg (ping that!) 04/10/2008 21:00:25
With reference to the footie forum comments - if any football club possessed players scoring as many own goals as GB and colleagues, would it be classed as match fixing?
Quick escape to fat pensions, perhaps.
83

I must have annoyed somebody earlier,

04/10/2008 21:39:59
Hi Van. Torrox soon?
84

Van (not white) Diesel,

Amsterdam & Augsburg 04/10/2008 21:53:37
Salutaciones, numero noventa y uno.
What happened to the other handle/s?
We have booked 03-17 Nov, but not Torrox. Between Granada and Motril, actually, but will be trundling your way from time to time, particularly if it becomes a bit too nippy inland.
85

The ex Pat,

04/10/2008 23:01:40
It beggers belief!

He cocked it up twice ( sorry perhaps an inapropriate use of the word here!) and he is brought back and given a peerage. How much longer are the British people prepared to be dumped on by Labour?

Blair out his faith in God Brown it would appear puts his in fairies even ones he hates.
86

,

04/10/2008 23:10:46
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
87

The ex Pat,

05/10/2008 15:54:12
Pax Vobiscum must have lived on another planet if he does not know.

For a start he is sleezly and cannot be trusted.

 

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