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Salmond: No safe seat for Labour in Scotland

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Published Date: 26 July 2008
ALEX Salmond yesterday claimed there was no safe Labour seat left in Scotland as the full impact of the SNP's sensational victory in Glasgow East emerged.
The First Minister issued what amounted to a battle cry, suggesting the SNP would be unstoppable after ousting Labour from its third-safest seat.

If the 22 per cent by-election swing was replicated across Scotland in a general election, it would leave just one of Labour's 39 MPs in place – Tom Clarke in Coatbridge – with casualties including Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, and Chancellor Alistair Darling.

The scale of the defeat piled further pressure on Mr Brown, who faced demands from Paul Kenny, the leader of the GMB union, and the Labour back-bench critic Graham Stringer, to consider his position.

David Cameron, the leader of the Conservative Party, said the defeat showed the country was desperate for change and challenged Mr Brown to call a general election after the summer. But Mr Brown refused to budge, saying he was "getting on with the job" while again trying to empathise with voters about the soaring cost of bread and eggs.

Simple arithmetic shows that the SNP would have 49 MPs, the Liberal Democrats seven, the Tories one and Labour one if Labour's vote collapsed in a similar manner at a general election. The calculation excludes the Glasgow seat currently held by the Commons Speaker, Michael Martin.

As for what the result would mean if replicated in a Holyrood election, a source close to Mr Salmond said: "We are still doing our calculations, but there is no doubt that the swing last night would wipe out all Labour's constituency MSPs.

"They would receive some list MSPs in compensation for the proportion of their vote … but there is no doubt that we would be by far the largest party, although not necessarily in a majority."

By-elections are unreliable indicators of future governments and success can often be short-lived. Of the four SNP by-election victories prior to the success of John Mason in Glasgow East, all but one failed to hold the seat at the subsequent general election.

However, Mr Salmond yesterday maintained that Glasgow East's voters had been in a "unique" situation. Rather than having a choice between a government and opposition, for the first time they were able to weigh the merits of two parties in power – Labour at Westminster and the SNP at Holyrood. There was also the belief among many Labour loyalists that their party had become "arrogant" and needed to be given a sharp kick, he told The Scotsman.

"We have now demonstrated that there are no safe seats for the Labour party anywhere in Scotland," he said. "They used to say that it was the Tories who could only get one MP in Scotland."

Several other factors also give the Nationalists hope that they are on the cusp of smashing Labour's historic dominance in Scotland – and in particular in Glasgow. They point to the fact that the Glasgow East result was the first recent victory against a Labour government. In 1995 in Perth and Kinross, the Tories were in power at Westminster, as they were during the Govan victories of 1973 and 1988. It was only with the SNP's first by-election victory in 1967 that it defeated a candidate representing a UK Labour government.

Then there is Thursday's turnout. At 42 per cent, it was only six percentage points short of the 48 per cent at the 2005 general election. This gives credence to the argument that electors would vote the same way in the next general election, due by June 2010.

Labour could face an earlier test as Jack McConnell, an MSP and former first minister, will be forced to stand down from his Motherwell and Wishaw seat if his posting as High Commissioner of Malawi is activated next year as expected.

Then there is the promised referendum vote in 2010, a year before the next elections to the Scottish Parliament. Roseanna Cunningham, who achieved the last SNP by- election victory when she took Perth and Kinross in 1995, said the benefits to the party this time were likely to be greater. This would be seen most obviously by an increase in younger supporters and a boost in membership.

Asked what the victory would mean for the SNP's hopes of ending decades of Labour dominance and driving forward its aim of independence, Ms Cunningham said: "What we can take from (the by-election] at an absolute minimum is that scaremongering about independence simply doesn't work. That is the difference from between five or ten years ago. That is another sign you can't simply frighten people away from voting SNP."

Labour's search for a new leader in the Scottish Parliament starts on Monday, following the resignation of Wendy Alexander, and many believe the amateurish attempts to canvass support in a supposedly rock-solid constituency – with imported teenage activists getting lost on a daily basis – showed the absence of a grass-roots organisation.

However, Des Browne, Labour's Scottish Secretary, said it was nonsense to suggest that a by-election result could be used as a guide to future voting intentions across the country. He said voters had wanted to register a protest against high prices caused by world economic conditions, and said Labour was already working to re-establish support in Glasgow. However, he did concede that it was a "significantly bad result".

But he compared Glasgow East to the 1999 Hamilton South by-election, which Labour held by just 556 votes from an SNP charge with a virtually identical swing to Thursday. "I remember the SNP issued a press release, which my local paper carried, saying they were about to sweep me away on the basis of that," he said. "It wasn't replicated at the general election and I have defended that seat twice since then."


Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 25 July 2008 10:50 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Blah blah oil is me ,

26/07/2008 00:01:37
As if...
2

,

26/07/2008 00:08:44
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
3

SlyFifer,

California 26/07/2008 00:13:22
With this stupendous victory the SNP can be justly proud. Congratulations to them all. With the remaining parties discredited in one way or another and with the crying need for a viable and worthy opposition to the SNP, perhaps it's time for a new political force in Scotland also with an Independence agenda but a more centerist approach. I'm sure there are good people in the other parties crying out for a new direction who need an idea to rally around. Just saying !
4

Richardinho,

26/07/2008 00:15:18
Fantastic result, but this is not the end but a new beginning. John Mason's tremendous victory has been overshadowed somewhat with the media choosing to concentrate on Gordon Brown's problems, but he has a great task ahead of him to show that he can make a difference to the people of Glasgow East. The political circus may move on , but the problems the constituency faces will remain, but I have every faith that he is the right man to tackle them.
5

Traquir , Alba,

26/07/2008 00:31:47
Labour , always somewhat slow, has just realized
their heartland is being eaten
from the inside out and it is too late
the process is well underway -

Having a set of motivated, passionate and
young SNP councillors
working on the ground is something that I believe can
not be underestimated - to have gone from only 4 out of 79 councillors to 22 out of 79 since 2007 is a huge difference and Glasgow East is one
of the first outward signs of SNP
progress from the inside of Labour's heartlands. It will be but one (a very significant one)
of many cracks which will
cause the Labour heartlands to implode.

At this point Labour is the only thing
that can save this
rotting Union and they are in no fit shape to be up to
that challenge, and the SNP will ensure they never
again become fit enough to be any challenge.

Ian Macwhirter stated the situation well yesterday

"Labour now faces electoral oblivion under Gordon Brown - and the United Kingdom may not survive in its present form"

"This is an astonishing result, tearing the heart out of Labour in Scotland and sending shockwaves all the way to Downing Street."

"The other unionist parties are failing to provide any significant challenge to the SNP, which has grown in authority since it took over the reins of power in Holyrood."

"It may still be possible to prevent complete separation by moving to a form of federalism, with Scotland given greater economic autonomy. But the way things are going, Scotland could be an independent nation within 10 years. The entire UK will be shaken by the earthquake in Glasgow."

see - tinyurl.com/5r4eae

I think Iain is spot on except for his estimate , likely it will be much less than 10 years.
There is a clear message here
get rid of Labour for good and free Scotland from
this oppressive Union.

Saor Alba
6

Traquir , Alba,

26/07/2008 00:39:42
It looks like the knifes are well and truly out
for poor Gordy :

"One minister said: "It's become clear that no one can do any worse than Gordon. If it's happening in Scotland, what chance do we have in London and the South-east? The challenge is how to bring about a change without someone getting their hands dirty." He said no figure in the party stood out as a replacement, but favoured either Alan Johnson or David Miliband. He added: "My fear is that Harriet [Harman] thinks this is her big chance, but she doesn't have the appeal."

see - tinyurl.com/6h3wxg
7

Nevsky,

Moscow 26/07/2008 00:54:28
7.

Didn't really seem to listen to the conservatives in Glasgow did they. Of course you vote is always squeezed in a bye election in fact you can almost hear the pips popping!

You are a nut if you think Auntie Annabel and Cameron will have ANY influence over Scottish voters!
8

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 26/07/2008 00:54:44
Well done the good folks of Glasgow East, you at last stood up to the liebour thieving bullies and sent them homeward tae think again. But it's too late for them now they had 60 years to proove their worth and they FAILED. SCOTLAND NOW is WELL ON HER WAY TO BECOMING A NORMAL INDEPENDENT COUNTRY AGAIN!!!!
9

Mercian,

UK 26/07/2008 00:56:41
This is my personal view as somebody trying to be objective:

Labour lost this election because they have made shambolic mistakes in Scotland and in the UK as a whole. Gordon Brown has acquired a terrible public image as bundler, and lately a looser- and nobody backs a looser.

The SNP have been successful because they have managed to convince voters of their credibility to govern and that their cause is a postive one about standing up for Scotland. At the helm Alex Salmond has shown himself to be a formidable politician.
10

Nevsky,

Moscow 26/07/2008 00:59:01
Labour are spinning this as people registering a vote against 'rising world prices'.

I am afraid they are not they are voting against a directionless and incompetant government that has taxed people nearly out of existence!

11

Mercian,

UK 26/07/2008 00:59:24
This is a little OT about The Southern Independence Party of Texas. I found it interesting and thought some of you would, especially as it mentions the Scottish independence movement.

http://www.sipoftexas.org/faq.php
12

Nevsky,

Moscow 26/07/2008 01:04:55
Here is the link to the Norwegian Government's website. I think you will find it even more interesting.

http://www.regjeringen.no/en.html?id=4
13

Sanny,

Upwey 26/07/2008 01:05:34
3 SlyFifer
Such a party already exists, The Scottish Enterprise Party, SEP. They are an embryonic right-of-centre party that registered just before the last Holyrood election. They could provide a reasonable home for those who lean away from the left policies generally espoused by the SNP, together with a desire for independence from both UK and EU


14

Silence of the Yams,

26/07/2008 01:29:00
Labour need to sack Brown and go cap in hand to Blair and beg him to come back. If they don'y they are going to be wiped out on a scale not seen. Milliband is no PM either, Blair is the only option.
15

Richardinho,

26/07/2008 01:32:17
#18 you're kidding? The only thing I could say for Gordon Brown is that much of this mess was Blair's who pis-sed off just before it hit the fan.
16

Yane,

26/07/2008 01:49:26
#15 That website is completely out there. Loved the pictures o the Ball though! Somehow, I don't think it has anything to do with Scotland —
17

2Pasquenade ,

26/07/2008 02:00:57
Brown bottled it when it came to calling a general election within a few months of becoming PM.

It was the start of his downfall. He dithered over whether or not to call one, hinted that he might, then when the polls looked decidedly iffy, stamped all over the idea.

He is secretive by nature which is an absolute turn off.

When it came to Northern Rock, had he made the decision to guarantee savings sooner, he'd have stopped the run...that dithering caused a great deal of damage to confidence in the economy.

He might very well be a very bright boy, but a leader he is not. If he stays he will lead labour to their worst general election defeat in a generation.

He has to recognise now that he got a fair crack of the whip but has failed to cut the mustard. If he decides to fight on, he is thinking only about himself.

He says that he's 'just getting on with the job', but in truth his holding the job depends on the wishes of the electorate , and the message is now loud and clear : Go now Gordon.
18

Nevsky,

Moscow 26/07/2008 02:20:48
What the English really think:

As the English see it, they - we, I should say, despite my traces of Celtic blood - pay the Scots so they can exercise the privilege of complaining about us. We now seethe with resentment when we hear (as we do every day) a Scottish accent among our political rulers. We let them have their own parliament, we tend to think, so why are they still cluttering up ours?

From the Telegraph! One for our unionist friends to debate!
19

Greatscot....,

London 26/07/2008 02:51:09
This is it. Finally here we go. Now Scotland can be a nation no longer dependent on England. Now we can be dependent on Brussells. This is progress.
20

FTH22inarow,

26/07/2008 04:23:36
why do the SNP stand for westminster elections in the first place, they don't believe in it afterall
21

Guga II,

Rockall 26/07/2008 05:06:59
#24.

Because the Westmiddenster government still controls our money and our resources, and steal as much of it as they can from us. That is why we need to be independent.
22

Guga II,

Rockall 26/07/2008 05:07:57
#25.

Is it hurting?
23

Graham Simpson,

Vancouver 26/07/2008 05:22:39
#22 Nevsky... Yes you are correct!.. it should be we and not they. Only an Englishman would condescendingly state that 'We let them have their own Parliament".. Nobody but Nobody let us have anything... we demanded, fought for and secured our own Parliament after 300 years of subjugation... as simply a stage in the unrelenting battle to secure absolute independence. We will never give up until this is achieved. You do not LET us have anything!.. we will take it with every resource at our disposal.
24

DAH,

26/07/2008 05:40:30
"If the 22 per cent by-election swing was replicated across Scotland in a general election, it would leave just one of Labour's 39 MPs in place – Tom Clarke in Coatbridge"

Come on SNP in the Coatbridge constituency - prove the cynics wrong!
25

inoui,

Bordeaux 26/07/2008 05:43:46
Not just the labour political party.
26

Black & White Triumph,

Greenhill Road.....soon 26/07/2008 05:56:20
Now is the time to push on for independence, this vote while being in the category of a protest vote, it can also be viewed as a vote for independence.

we should now confidently put our case, remove ourselves from the union and go our way as an independent nation with our own voice and with the best interests of all Scots to the forefront.
27

Guga II,

Rockall 26/07/2008 06:43:24
#34. And why are you wasting your time commenting in a Scottish newspaper? Wouldn't the Guardian feel more at home for you?
28

Anglofile,

26/07/2008 06:57:29
I do not like either brown or salmond. salmond must have the biggest head in scotland at the moment. It will soon come down to size when indelendence is not gained.
29

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 07:17:53
#37

I’m sure the First Minister will be distraught at the lack of esteem you hold him in.

Are you George Foulkes in disguise?
30

lodger,

Highland 26/07/2008 07:18:58
If a new party were required, perhaps it could be called the "Apathetic Cynical Party". There would be an instant mass membership among the populance.
Just think! no need to waste money on leafletting, canvassing, television appearances and all the rest of the ballyhoo.
All votes not cast at an election would be automatically transferred to the "Apathetic Cynical Party" and they would win huge numbers of seats.

Well done those of you who made the effort to vote in Glasgow East and well done SNP.
31

lodger,

Highland 26/07/2008 07:22:48
Gordon Brown - HUMBLE????
To misquote Winstone Churchill, "He is a very humble man - with a great deal to be humble about".
32

Longdirk Maceth,

NZ 26/07/2008 07:27:46
Some of the reasons why the Scottish people are giveing Broom and Labour a kicking:

1)it was brown that said on tv that he would not work with the scottish government.
2)it was brown who the media say will not return Salmonds calls
3)it was brown that did not congratulate Salmond on his vicotry last yr until embarrassed by the media. Blair did not at all.
4)it is brown who has tried to scupper the LIT policy of the snp, rather than leaving it to be argued out in holyrood.
a) disgracefully trying to withhold scotlands money through the council tax rebate.
b)and used the treasury to declare the policy illegal when it is the remit of the preciding officer to do so.
5) it brown who would not compensate our farmers while compensating english farmers
6)it was brown who delivered the lowest increase in the scottish block grant since the start of the parliament (many think as a punishment for voting snp)
7)it was brown who is try to not pass on the consequentials to the scottish parliament as a result of spending on english prisions.
33

SS,

26/07/2008 07:34:41
I say bring on a referendum indeed - then when 70% - 80% of the country votes to remain part of the Union all the nationalists can finally be quiet. Supporting the SNP and it winning a seat in Glasgow is one thing, but it does not mean anyone who votes SNP wants independence.
34

Longdirk Maceth,

NZ 26/07/2008 07:35:57
Sorry meant Broon.

Bob 10, Why can't he express his opinion from Canada?

It's clear looking at the English newspapers that the English blame Broon for everything cos' he's a "Jock" And therefore want to remove him and ALL other Scotish MP from Goverment. So much for a equal Union.
Yes I really hope Scotland, can keep moving in this direction and go for independence.
Feel sorry for the English people, when the Tories get back in and start stripping public services and putting up taxes, what will they turn to then?

35

Richard M,

Scottish Raj 26/07/2008 07:47:40
We saw it all before in Govan in 1988. The Ace enn Pee won a by-election then. It was a protest vote and a low turnout. Mores the pity because in 2 years time when there is a general election some Labour donkey will get back in again
36

walter,

26/07/2008 07:59:45
Well done the Mr Mason, Mr Salmond and the SNP.
Only the future will tell just exactly what this result means! and when I say the future I mean 2010.
By elections mid term are not an indication of future voting intentions.
This is mainly due to the fact that in a by election parties can saturate that one constituency and Glasgow east is a good example of this you could have been mistaken in thinking it was Salmond that was standing for the seat and not Mason, also these are normally when protest votes go in or those that normally vote don't.
Scotland is different though it has a grievance of being dragged screaming and kicking from its near communist mentality (where it expected the state to subsidize its industry and unions would call for a strike at the drop of a hat) by Mrs Thatcher.
The SNP although having its core support appeals to the lefts right wing tendencies and they are not the Tories so Labours support will vote for them.
The SNP are a young political party of power and they play well into the mindset of Scottish chip on the shoulder grievances.
Whether that will work in a referendum for independence is a different matter the vast majority of Scots are still in favour of the union.
The SNP offer an alternative to the Tories (who are making a slight come back) and Labour whose supporters feel the party has abandoned them.
37

Stephen fae Scotland,

San Francisco (& Edinburgh) 26/07/2008 08:18:34
Dream on Gnats - dream on...... Where are all those other 'spectacular by-election victories' of yesteryear? Oh that's right - lost by the SNP at the next general election.
38

Iain Ban,

26/07/2008 08:21:14
# Bob10

Why can't Scots who don't live in Scotland not be nationalists? UK PM Brown and many other neo-con NuLAB failures are Scottish and live in another country most of the time. Or do you think only Scottish unionists can live abroad and be allowed to comment on home affairs? Unionist logic is becoming more and more surreal by the day. Face it, you're on the road to oblivion. And about time too.
39

walter,

26/07/2008 08:25:02
#44 Longdirk Maceth,
There is a big difference in given an opinion as you have from foreign field and the way #30 gave there's.

"Nobody but Nobody let us have anything... we demanded, fought for and secured our own Parliament after 300 years of subjugation... as simply a stage in the unrelenting battle to secure absolute independence. We will never give up until this is achieved"

Those in foreign lands and that includes yourself are not part of the "we" We are the Scots who live in this country and who will be affected by either staying with or leaving the union.

If those who are abroad feel that strongly about Scotland's future why are they not here where the end result will affect them fighting their corner.
40

donald,

glasgow 26/07/2008 08:25:08
What noo for Curran's Bendy Queen chances? Will she still be allowed to run for Labour's North British Leaderless campaign? Will anyone be suicidal, or thick enough to run for the poisoned chalice? The second option looks more likely given Labour's numpty form, encouraged by the North British Unionist meejah sycophants..
41

gus1940,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 08:32:35
That's right - the good old imperialist strategy of Divide and Rule.
42

Graham Simpson,

Vancouver 26/07/2008 08:33:56
34 Bob10.. and where do you live and waste your time Bob? I live very productively in Vancouver and also in Edinburgh and Southern Europe. One can still be a Scot and live an international life. By the way, yes... I am a committed scottish nationalist and have been for many years. Fortunately, however, I am not rabid and you are certainly not wasting your time in a library or a school, since otherwise you might know that to be rabid is to be infected with rabies.
43

allan58,

edinburgh 26/07/2008 08:35:20
I suppose the spin & bluster were all too predictable.
"We need to listen"
"Lessons need to be learned"
"Voters want to punish the government for rising prices resulting from world economic conditions"
Got a familiar ring to it hasn't it. Everything but face up to the truth & learn from it.

Still, I think the comment of the day has to come from the defeated Labour candidate who stated something like " Everybody expected us to lose by a significant amount and, we didn't lose by a significant amount"! (please correct me if I'm wrong someone).

Well now, having seen a 13000 majority overturned & the safest seat in Scotland ( one of the 3 safest in the UK) lost, perhaps Ms Curran could explain exactly what "significant" means by her definition?

Of coures, there is no way GB will call an election. He was too cowardly before & he will be even more cowardly now. His busted flush government will stumble blindly on for another 2 years ( like its Tory predecessor)before finally succumbing to its long overdue & well deserved fate. I'm ashamed to admit I voted Labour in 1997. Never again!
Alex - in the words of Scotlands former clown in chief - "Bring it on".

As for Independendence? Well, that is an unknown quantity. It may very well be true that the majority of Scots do not want independence. However, I think we are entitled to be given the choice.If we vote for indepndence and, it turns out to be a mistake then, it is our mistake to make & we must accept responsibility.
And yet, those "unionist" parties, while publicly ( and rightly) decrying dictators for denying democratic rights elsewhere seek to deny us here the same right to choose.
For the control freaks in Westminster this must have been another truly devastating blow. They can no longer control Scotland and, that is what really worries them.
44

Reject London,

DUNDEE 26/07/2008 08:41:31
Goodbye Labour Plebes though we never knew you at all
You the gall to campaign in Glesga East
Though we knew it was time for your fall

You crawled out of the sewers and peddled the same old lies
But this time we werenae listening and it was you we had come to despise

It seems to us that you campaign all year - like a f a r t in the wind
Never knowing whose your leader and know Wendy has gotten binned
And we would have liked to believe your hype but it's not really worth a dime
Your legend has burned out finally and the SNP said IT'S TIME

(camera pans to the Labour rose on a coffin being carried oot)
45

Magic Hoops 2,

Kirkcaldy, Labours last stand (probably) 26/07/2008 08:45:16
#37

its not the size but its what u do with it that counts. Thankfully Oor Salmond has this well and truly sussed
46

Melly,

Cuckfield 26/07/2008 08:55:21
Bob10 and S.S Feeling a touch bitter? You`ll get over it but it might take a wee while. There`s an unstopable force at play in Scotland and it won`t stop until the country takes it`s rightful place with the nations of the world. I guess you guys will have the h-ump for the rest of your lives - shame.
47

John S,

26/07/2008 08:59:03
The difference between the Glasgow East and previous by-elections is this time the Scottish people have a SNP lead Scottish Government and Scottish Parliament who speak for the Scottish people and address Scottish issues. This gives doubt to the Labour Party way of thinking we will win back Glasgow East at the next election because the same SG will still be in power when the next GE is held.

48

GM,

26/07/2008 08:59:37
Quite predictable the unionist contributors have all but disappeared off the forum since the vote result came in...

But also, quite predicatbly a couple of new faces have appeared (Bob10 for one) on this thread, with what will appear to be the unionist 'strategy' over the next few months.

The startegy is (and I expect AM2 to toe the line) to attack independence along the lines of the 'byelection vote doesn't mean independence vote'.

Now, a while back, that may well have been true - and we have seen it before in by elections where Labour won back seats at the general election... but...
that was when there was no scottish parliament, no SNP government, no youthful groundswell of support for independence etc.

This unionist 'strategy' will appear very often on this forum over the next few days but as far as I'm concerned *no* unionist will have *any* confidence in what they are typing! None at all.
49

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 09:04:59
Dream on Nats. In another article there's a woman saying she voted for Mason because he was A) a good councillor and, more importantly B) gave her a lift to the polling station. Hardly a Damascene conversion. It's a PROTEST VOTE. The died in the wool Labour voting fodder will be snow off a dyke come the next election. Never have so many people suffered from so much self delusion.
50

Jung,

26/07/2008 09:05:25
#59
I am sure AM2 will be along shortly (if he/she has not already appeared), once he / she has completed the Darwin's (of the canoe) Identity Management course.
51

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/07/2008 09:06:06
#60 "The died in the wool Labour voting fodder will be snow off a dyke come the next election."

What, melting away? You seem to have your metaphors somewhat confused, dear. Must be the shock.
52

allan58,

edinburgh 26/07/2008 09:11:59
For someone who's happy to berate others for "self delusion" #60, you appear not to recognise the same symptoms in yourself?

Presumably your comment is the start of the "unionist" response? Surely you can do better than that. It was straight out of the "Labour Party Encyclopedia of Cliches & Excuses for lost By Elections".

Well, one thing IS for sure. There is no way that GB will have the nerve to call an election now. He will drag this out till the last possible minute ( and us with it?)
53

Jung,

26/07/2008 09:15:23
#60

"died in the wool"
Shome mishtake shurely!

How about "dyed in the wool"?
54

GM,

26/07/2008 09:15:36
@60

maybe so, but a s'pose the thousands who voted labour 'because their father did' equally had a solid background of political understanding that assisted them in which box to cross?


Laugh? I'm loving the unionist anti-SNP backlash already and its only just started... your puss must be like a bulldog licking pi s h off a nettle with the sour grapes you're sooking on!!
55

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 09:15:43
Poor AM2, still to bitter and affronted to post under that moniker I see.

Lest we forget, here is what AM2 posted when Salmond predicted a political earthquake in Glasgow East:

---------------------------------------

AM2,Scotland,UK 16/07/2008 23:19:43


J’accuse, Mr Salmond! Of bluster, empty bravado and windbaggery.

• “We are two-thirds of the way up that mountain.”

The “two-thirds” claim was based on the ICM poll, which put Labour on 47% and the SNP on 33%. That would be a 15% swing since the 2005 election.

The SNP then issued a press release misleadingly claiming that the 15% swing (being two-thirds of the 22% required to win the seat) had all occurred “in the first week of the by-election campaign”. Absolute nonsense.
--------------------------------------------------

Sad that AM2 and so many other Unionists lack the grace to admit there empty spin, and congratulate John Mason and the SNP on a historic and sensational win.
56

GM,

26/07/2008 09:17:03
do you think AM2 has been sacked (again) for yet another dismal failure in his role on these forums?
57

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 09:17:04
60. It is weird is it not that Unionists say the SNP is a single issue party, but then find 100 issues other than independence when the SNP win which seem to motivate people to vote SNP.
58

Magic Hoops 2,

Kirkcaldy, Labours last stand (probably) 26/07/2008 09:17:08
Dear Gordon Broon

We, the people of Kirkcaldy hope you had a smashing time down at Westminster courtesy of our expenses. Now your time there is nearing an end you will be looking forward to coming home to live in the nice little cosy constituency you have moulded for your future i.e RETIREMENT!!!.

We dearly hope you have remembered to contribute to your pension during your busy schedule as things back home have became more expensive so wee jimmy cannae have yorkshire puddings for christmas dinner this year. Oops almost forgot....some sticky fingered Ned has been helping himself to the pension fund to fund a Safari in the middle east for him and his mates to have a fun time running riot and making a nuisance of themselves....you wouldnt happen to know anything about that would you????

One other thing.....there seems to be a growing interest in your favourite chair here from other members of the opposite heirachy. They seem to think it will suit their needs better. I know you must have a real bad back wi aw that pressure you have been taking on recently so as a token of gratitude for your long service to our constituency we have arranged for you to be accomodated in a state of the art politics centre aka The EU along side your old komrat Herr Blair.

Herr Blair told me to say he is looking forward to your renunion and that the troughs are bigger there they really treat you well. Dont worry about us we will hold the fort. Mr Salmond is like a Father to us now he keeps the boogyman AM2 away so we can all sleep well knowing we wont wake up wearing Union Jack pyjamas.

Best Regards

Magic Hoops care of Kirkcaldy General Public
59

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 09:18:13
67.... I think AM2 is not actually paid, I think he volunteers and the staff at the Scotsman tolerate him like they would some child on a 'bring your kids to work day' exercise
60

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 09:20:00
#62 Rev

Yes, got a bit mixed up there. But it doesn't change anything. Your new Nat voters will scuttle home to whatever chimp Labour puts up as a candidate next time and loyally put an 'X' in their box. And, otherwise, I really don't give a t*ss if they vote Labour or the SNP. They amount to one and the same. It's just one of them wants us to live in a slightly more parochial socialist paradise, that's all.
61

Spoot,

Third rock pool on the left 26/07/2008 09:21:28
Unsurprisingly, the London-based meeja drew all the wrong conclusions from the result. Despite the efforts of the journos to put words into their mouths, all interviews with the voters that I heard or read made it clear that the underlying reasons for the outcome were:-

1. the fact of an SNP govenrment in Edinburgh;
2. the abysmal performance and behaviour of Wendy Alexander as the leader of Labour in Scotland, coupled with the lamentable performance of her predecessors; and
3. the shambles around the selection of a Labour candidate for Glasgow East.

None of those interviewed suggested that they had used their vote as a judgment on Gordon Brown.
62

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 09:23:08
#64 Jung

When the nats are sniping at spelling errors and dodgy metaphors, I suspect I might be striking a raw nerve.
63

Nikostratos,

26/07/2008 09:23:27
#59 GM,

Well at least you admit (obliquely) that the SNP at 43% votes were dwarfed by the 52% who voted for pro-union parties on a 42% turnout.

and perhaps you can explain why Alex is backpedaling on there being a general election ?. If the snp have the *confidence* to sweep all before them?

#66 Pink Sombrero

I "congratulate John Mason and the SNP on a historic and sensational win"

me i don't do bitterness life's to short.....ha ha

I.m thinking 'Independent scottish labour party'Um
64

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 09:24:34
71. There we have the typical unionist arrogance predicting the result of the next election, totally lacking in any humility from just spectacularly failing to predict the result of this one, and the typical unionist arrogance "I don't give a t-ss who people vote for" - some regard for democracy.

Unionists seem to be in shock and very bitter today.
65

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 09:25:56
74, Niko

pre-senile nonsense. Alex Salmond does not control when a UK general election is held.

But I am sure the SNP say Bring It On.

66

Magic Hoops 2,

26/07/2008 09:28:12
#73

If you collate all the voters who voted in the Scottish Elections with the swing in Glasgow East and then make an educated prediction as to how people the follow suit i think you will find this is no way a one off protest vote. The SNP bug is spreading from the North, southwards and then finally it will sweep the East. Note the pattern!!!!
67

John S,

26/07/2008 09:28:56
The good people of Glasgow East can now consult their SNP member of Parliament, John Mason MP.
68

Magic Hoops 2,

26/07/2008 09:31:31
Where is Kimba??....ive missed her stench
69

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 09:32:18
Now, when is Jack McConnel resigning his seat to take up his croney reward job as High Commissioner?
70

Magic Hoops 2,

26/07/2008 09:33:49
#81

Next year apparently....there was a problem with fitting his Trough
71

GM,

26/07/2008 09:34:45
@74
No admission from me mate, implied or otherwise. Glasgow east was not a referendum on independence, but the swing to SNP does indicate that at least some of those voters would be willing to go down that route.

Interesting that you should go down the road of statistics given *all* that has gone on in these forums since about January 2007, and the unionists still have *nothing* else to offer but stats.

Stats that have been proven wrong time and again.

You *never* seem to appreciate that spinning figures as you have done in post 74 doesn't cut the mustard.

Some examples of pro-union propanda failures -

May 2007 - despite polls and media pressure, the SNP won

the laughable - "there will never be a council tax freeze"

the puzzling support for Wendy's admitted illegal activity

Glasgow east by-election 'earthquake'

and too many more to mention.





Alex Salmond is perhaps in your own view, backpeddling from a general election, but to most other sane contributors, he simply spoke the truth - he doesn't think the result will trigger a general election.

As has been proven to date. There might be a challenge to GB, but no labour party would go to the polls at the moment when they dont need to.

72

Senga Jean,

26/07/2008 09:34:54
The sky is cloudy but it feels like full sunshine. "Oh Happy Day"
73

Suomi,

Salo,Finland 26/07/2008 09:35:36
I think that those who suggest that all people who vote SNP do not(yet) support independeance,need to remember that all voters who supported Labour and other parties do not necessarily oppose independance.It is a flawed approach to assume that all voters accept all aime of the party that they vote for.For example,do all labour voters support socialism? In the days when labour was a socialist perty I recall many voters in Glasgow voting Conservative,Liberal or SNP in general elections and labour in local elections (to keep the rents down in a Labour dominated council resulting from a first pass the post system).We know that a significant percent of Labour and Conservative voters support independance,but do not vote SNP.Thus the simplistic arithmatic used on these sites cannot inform us about the independance vote,only a referendum can do that.

The real significance (psychology) of the Glasgow East by election is that it conforms the evidence from the 2007 Scottish elections that the SNP can now compete with labour in their heartlands.Labour membership is crumbling while SNP memders are increasing.Larger numbers of SNP councillors in Glasgow and the impressive performance of the SNP government is accelerating this trend.Who holds what seat at the next elections is less important than the general trend.However,I congratulate John Mason,and I am certain that he will do a fine job for his constituents.Independance will take care of itself.It is the future in the modern Europe and I predict that more parties will eventually embrace it.
74

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 09:36:06
#75 Pink Sombrero

You don't seem to get my point. For me, personally, it's nothing to do with Unionism or Seperatism. It's all to do with political ideology. Heads of state, flags, national anthems and what cap bands the feckin navy wears are of no great importance to me. I really don't care if Scotland is in or out of the UK. The only real benefit I personally get from it is the hope that, every now and again, the good voters of England will release me from the thrall of Socialism, which, Labour or SNP, most Scots seem addicted to. Switching from Labour to SNP changes nothing.
75

GM,

26/07/2008 09:40:42
@86
"Switching from Labour to SNP changes nothing."

I think you'll find that the switch last year has changed a great many things (for the better).
76

Magic Hoops 2,

Kirkcaldy 26/07/2008 09:41:29
#86

"Switching from Labour to SNP changes nothing"

If you think sticking to the same lottery numbers is gonna yield much more fortune think again. If Socialism isnt your preferred weapon of choice then what is it?? Nationalism?? Unionism??
77

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 09:48:03
#88 Magic Hoops

Did you actually read my post? It changes nothing because Labour are a UNIONIST Socialist party and the SNP are a SEPERATIST Socialist party. Two sides of one coin. Granted Eck Salmond seems a bit more competent than any of the Labour mob and wee Nicola Sturgeon seems a bit mure human and personable than the po-faced, sanctimonious Labour apparatchiks. I'm grateful for small mercies.
78

jacquesmac,

Lectoure 26/07/2008 09:48:22
# 80
Magic Hoops 2,26/07/2008 09:31:31
Where is Kimba??....ive missed her stench

I have a theory

LEGSA Kimba = Boudica = Jackie Baillie

am I right or am I right?

answers in plain brown envelopes with £995 entry fee / donation (used notes especially welcome)
79

jacquesmac,

Lectoure 26/07/2008 09:50:55
#89

Draco, is the irony or satire or the product of a poor educashun in some rundown Scocialist sink scheme??

"SEPERATIST"
80

jamboden1,

sydney 26/07/2008 09:53:27
well done the SNP.
Just do it Scotland!
81

Magic Hoops 2,

26/07/2008 09:54:17
#89

im glad
82

Nikostratos,

26/07/2008 09:55:27
#83

why not trigger an early general election and if the snp sweep the board in Scotland. They would have a majority of Westminster MPs alongside all the snp MSPs etc etc.

Would indicate the Scottish people have chose the Independence route and come the next Scottish election..well what more could the snp ask..so why doesn't Alex bring it on?
83

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 09:55:27
#91 Jacquesmac

When you're trying to appear an edukated prat by slagging someone off about their spelling, it pays to make sure your own sentence actually reads properly before posting. Now THAT'S irony.
84

allan58,

edinburgh 26/07/2008 09:57:14
England isn't far away # 86.You could always leave if you don't like us. You're still self delusional. What makes you think English voters will influence the political allegiances/alliances in Scotland?

You sound like one of those embittered Tories who's still sufferring from a massive overdose of sour grapes because Scots had the good common sense to see through the Wicked old Witch from Finchley & her minions.

The New Tories under GB are (hopefully) about to go the same way.

I honestly don't know what this "parochial socialism" is that you're wittering on about. I suppose however it sounds good.

At least we have a choice now. You couldn't put a sheet of paper between the Tories and "New" Labour. In any case, if English voters want a re-run of the ills of Thatcherism then let them vote blue.The Tories haven't changed a bit. They'll soon realise their mistake. By then of course it'll be too late .Scots have got more common sense and that, I suspect, is the real reason for your bellyaching.
85

Magic Hoops 2,

26/07/2008 09:57:21
#90 jacquesmac,Lectoure

Legs a kimba indeed lol. Have you referred to my emotional letter to our Dear Leader at my post #69 (Kimbas favourite number :-))
86

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 09:57:21
94. Niko, what on earth are you on about. A UK general election is up to Gordon Brown to decide on.
87

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 09:57:59
97. Magic, good to see you back. We all thought Kimba had eaten you.
88

GM,

26/07/2008 10:01:34
@94
"so why doesn't Alex bring it on?"

emmm,
because he cant?

s'funny that apart from stats and polls, this is just about all the unionists have left - 'why doesnt alex do this, why doesnt alex do that'...

Well, my unionist chum, given the performance of the SNP and Alex Salmond up till now, I'd say they and he do whats right for scotland at the right time, not when some half-baked pro-unionist douche tells them to simply for political gain rather than being of any benefit to scotland.
89

Magic Hoops 2,

26/07/2008 10:01:35
#95 Draco

At #73 you said

"When the nats are sniping at spelling errors and dodgy metaphors, I suspect I might be striking a raw nerve."

Irony doesnt exclude your hypocrisy

90

GM,

26/07/2008 10:03:40
In the words of our old chum AM2 -

"must dash, maybe back later"


Have a nice saturday everyone, I've got things to do and will come back when the unionist backlash is in full swing.
91

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 10:05:08
#96 allan58

Ah, a love us or leave us Nat. Lovely. How dare anyone criticise us Scots, eh? Well, as well as not liking the Scottish addiction to Socialism, I don't like the fact that we're at the top or near the top of any EU list when it comes to ill-health, drug addiction, welfare addiction, alcohol addiction, teenage pregnancy, knife-wielding etc etc. Despite all that, I actually feel quite proud to be a Scot and have no real desire to live in England (again).
92

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 10:08:39
"I don't like the fact that we're at the top or near the top of any EU list when it comes to ill-health, drug addiction, welfare addiction, alcohol addiction, teenage pregnancy, knife-wielding etc etc"

.... yes, the Union has worked well for Scotland
93

Magic Hoops 2,

26/07/2008 10:09:22
#103

So tell us why we are the only oil producing country in the world to be so poor?? with our ill health , alchohol addiction ya da yady ya....If you want it to stop....become a Nat...simple as that. Or is your shame of switching to the good guys and giving any siblings you have sprung from you jubilant loins a chance to survive in a country you helped create??
94

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 10:09:44
#104

No, our addiction to SOCIALISM hasn't worked well for Scotland.
95

Magic Hoops 2,

26/07/2008 10:10:27
#105 should read

Or is your shame of switching to the good guys and giving any siblings you have sprung from you jubilant loins a chance to survive in a country you helped create too great??
96

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 10:11:28
106, weird, because I am sure that the UK and Scotland has been governed from London by Conservative governments for the majority of the last 60 years
97

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 10:14:02
#105 Magic

I refer you to comments I've made as nauseum. Until we lose our national addiction to leftist politics, I'm sticking with the Union. But I'll go pack my bags. Like all leftists, you'll no doubt be happy when there's no-one around to disagree with your dogma.
98

Longdirk Maceth,

NZ 26/07/2008 10:18:41
50 walter, For your imformation mate, I work in Africa for a company based in my home toon of Aberdeen, and still pay some tax to the UK.

SOOOOO!!!!! that gives me the right to say what I want as regards Scotland, the country I intend to return to one day, Happy now.
99

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 10:19:54
109. Draco - you noted of Scotland : ""I don't like the fact that we're at the top or near the top of any EU list when it comes to ill-health, drug addiction, welfare addiction, alcohol addiction, teenage pregnancy, knife-wielding etc etc"

This has occurred while Scotland has been governed on the most part by right wing Conservative governments over the last 60 years. Hardly an advert for conservative government, UK or Scottish, is it?
100

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 10:21:05
#108 Pink Sombrero

The only person who made a REAL difference to UK politics in the post-war period was Margaret Thatcher. I've kinda grown out of my student antipathy towards her. I admit times for those without work were and are hard at the time and since. If you refuse to see that the lot of the working class (for those lucky enough to have stayed in employment, again I admit)has improved beyond recognition, that's up to you.
101

jdships,

26/07/2008 10:21:11
11 Nevsky,Moscow

Sorry think you missed the scenario surrounding this by election.
Whatever we think of the result ,which for me was excellent ,there was always going to be a "protest vote" against Labour.
If this constinuency was going to ditch Labour it eould replace one left of centre party with another left of centre party - end of !
People knew that the only realistic hope of removing Labour was to vote SNP.
Conservative, Libdems et al were only ever going to make up the numbers and they knew that given the social make up of the constituency.
Glasgow East cannot be classed as a typical Scottish constituency
102

Nikostratos,

26/07/2008 10:21:57
#100

translation= because he might find he has lost

#104

well your at the very top for b##sh##t.....plop
103

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/07/2008 10:22:41
#112 So what you're proposing for a better future for Scotland is a return to Thatcherism?

Good luck with that one.
104

Mcsnagpile,

26/07/2008 10:23:11

Why do the Scots keep whimpering about oil. If you want to know about oil poverty take a trip to Nigerian, Venezuela, Libya and many more. Wealth is in the quality of the people.

The biggest weak spot in the SNP scenario is Alex. He needs a high profile gang. Just now he is only one. Without a high profile team he is fighting the battles alone.

Even with labour having a high profile cabinet, it was not easy to hand over from Blair to Brown both internationally and nationally.
105

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 10:24:35
112. Draco
you did not answer me why Scotland has some of the worst figures in the UK for ill-health, drug abuse, etc etc when it has been governed for the most part by UK London conservative government.
106

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 10:26:07
#115 The Rev

I admit it's highly unlikely, more's the pity. But I accept the will of my compatriots. That's democracy for you.
107

Publius,

Girvan 26/07/2008 10:28:11
I'm waiting for the dust to settle before commenting on the implications of Glasgow East for Labour and the SNP. But one thing that's been overlooked is the collapse of the LibDems. They had the most personable candidate but lost more than half their percentage share of the vote - and their deposit. And finished fourth - behind the Tories. One possible implication is that in 2010 the Tories will pick up one or two LibDem seats in the borders and the SNP will pick up some LibDem seats in the north.
108

Draco Was a Wimp,

26/07/2008 10:30:04
#118 Pink Sombrero

Apart from the Thatcher years, 1979-1991 (?, it's so long ago now, I can't remember) this country has been run, Labour or Conservative by a soft-left/liberal elite consensus when it came to social or economic policy. And it looks like it will continue under Cameron. That's 12 years out of 60. Hardly the majority of the time under right-wing government.
109

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 10:32:34
121. Draco

the Thacther years led to a massive rise in unemployment in Scotland, devastation of Scotland's industrial base, laid the seeds for areas of multiple deprivation which are still with us, and ended in the second Conservative recession of the 90s.

Some record.
110

,

26/07/2008 10:37:50
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
111

Oooer i say,

camptown r us 26/07/2008 10:40:56
#120 pubabus

Oooer i say, No it has not been over looked, the lib dems have a thread dedicated to them losing their deposit
112

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 10:41:22
# 122 Pink Sombrero

I admit there was a change in the national economy from heavy industry. Some would argue that it was a natural and necessary change. I don't disagree that for many individuals it was , and remains, hard. But Thatcher only saw the writing on the wall and had the b*lls to act on it. All western countries have reached a post-industrial phase. Because Scotland was so heavily reliant on heavy industry we were disproportinately badly affected, but so were Wales and the north of England, the industrial heartlands of France and Germany. What is it you, and other old Socialist nostalgics want? That our economy is STILL based on State-run, subsidised, unprofitable, union-dominated industries, producing goods no-one wants to buy? No other western country does, why should Scotland be able to buck the trend?
113

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/07/2008 10:43:11
#121 What sort of dreamland are you living in if you think New Labour and Cameron's Tories are "soft-left/liberal elite"? They both run pro-business, anti-socialist agendas and have overseen huge growth in the gap between rich and poor. They're neither soft nor left, and they're only liberal to the rich.
114

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 10:45:10
123. oh i do say, I do enjoy my post being admired
115

Oooer i say,

26/07/2008 10:48:23
#125 wimp

Oooer i say, what has all your rambleings to do with the SNP,s historic win. Are you one of those utterly boring people who try to plaster over the deep cracks in the crumbling union. Your AM2,s mother.
116

Jung,

26/07/2008 10:48:42
Draco was a wimp!

Given that the majority of Scots view Thatcher as evil personified, you really are living up your unionist wimp moniker.
117

Jung,

26/07/2008 10:50:33
Draco!
I take you'll not be joining me at Thatcher's state funeral when I'm selling the garlands of garlic, crucifixes and stakes so we can protect ourselves?
118

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 10:52:18
# 126 The Rev

And what else do you want? That a governemnt is ANTI business? Where, in YOUR puerile, apparently Socialist Workers idealist dreamworld, do you think the money comes from? Er, the money doesn't grow on trees. It doesn't even mostly come from us taxpayers. It comes from taxes on the profits made by BUSINESS. Without it, the State couldn't begin to look after those that need it. Maybe in your wee hippy collective it's possible. But most of us don't live in a hippy collective, most of us live in the real world.
119

Oooer i say,

r us in crisps and furr 26/07/2008 10:52:50
#128 pink123.

123. oh i do say, I do enjoy my post being admired

Mmmm, oooer i say, what else would you like me to admire




120

Snowy Bottles,

26/07/2008 10:53:19
After following several threads on related topics I would be grateful if someone would kindly post links for me. I have heard people mention the Scottish Devolution was forced upon Tony Blair by the UN and EU. A link for this would be excellent as would a link to the McCrone report. Thanks now!
121

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 10:55:02
#132 Jung

Many of Thatcher's personal traits were unattractive. She had the zealot's rigidity. All I'm saying is that, with hindsight, she proved to be a necessary evil.
122

Oooer i say,

cleaning my cream 26/07/2008 10:57:32
#136 snow

Ask Jeeves.com

http://www.bigmouthmedia.com/live/articles/about_ask_jeeves.asp
123

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 10:58:00
# 135 Joe McT

Not like it was. Germany, too, has changed. It went through a really difficult time, trying to incorporate the old-fashioned heavy industry in the East that so many out there and on these threads still seem to think can be the basis of a modern economy.
124

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 11:02:01
134.. the rim of my brim
125

John S,

26/07/2008 11:02:52
#136:Snowy Bottles, the McCrone report can be found here:-http://tinyurl.com/3sdrdg
http://www.snpyouth.org/documents/mccronereport.pdf
126

NBJT,

North Berwick 26/07/2008 11:04:08
Well done the SNP!!!!

No longer can the Scottish/English controlled media expect that their 'brain washing' of the people living in Scotland will work in their favour. They must realise now that we can think for ourselves.

Equally the Labour party no longer can expect any candidate that represents Glasgow/west to win JUST because they are Labour. The old addage that a monkey standing for Labour in the west would win has gone.

Independence the next step!!!!!!
127

Oooer i say,

rim and brim with cheese, hard on 26/07/2008 11:08:01
#140 pink

Oooer i say, the rim of your brim, mmm i like a moist brim
128

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/07/2008 11:11:17
#133 Untwist your knickers a moment. I'm no pinko Commie. Capitalism is the only viable method for running a society, because most of the alternatives conflict with humanity's essential selfishness. But capitalism needs to be balanced and moderated, and Thatcher and Blair both abandoned the population entirely to the whims of the free market, whose only aim is to enrich the tiny elite at the expense of the people.

That is the inescapable, fundamental nature of capitalism - to take from the many to enrich the few, and to continually refine the definition of that few - the entirely logical ultimate goal of capitalism is for one person (the "best") to own every last penny of the world's wealth.

People expect, in return for their labours, that governments will protect them from the worst excesses of that creed, by forcing a certain amount of wealth distribution. In 1997 people voted to tilt that balance to the left, as they thought it had gone too far the other way. They were betrayed by a government who continued its previous path, so that the gap between rich and poor got even bigger. They're now punishing New Labour for that betrayal.
129

,

26/07/2008 11:11:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
130

AM2,

Scotland,UK 26/07/2008 11:12:18
continued...

• the idea that the people of Glasgow East were “thick weegies” before but have now “redeemed themselves”

...and so on. I would fear for societal cohesion if such fringe extremism ever crossed over into the mainstream.
131

Derick fae Yell,

26/07/2008 11:12:20
37 Anglofile,26/07/2008 06:57:29
It will soon come down to size when indelendence is not gained."

quite like the sound of 'Indelendence'
Indelelendence now!
Or was that a reference to the billions of pounds Scotland has 'lent' the UK? We'll never see that again, eh!
132

Snowy Bottles,

26/07/2008 11:13:48
138 Oooer i say
141 John S

Thanks for that one.Interesting read! Any more info on the UN\EU documentation on Scottish devolution. I've read reference to documents in these threads but never until now wanted to read them for myself. If you could give the title of the documents I could search for them myself. Thanks again.
133

Derick fae Yell,

The Hoose 26/07/2008 11:14:20
AM2 - you fear for everything! Keep up the negativity, it's working wonders
134

Brian M,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 11:14:57
AM2 - just go home to Northern Ireland and think again
135

Oooer i say,

26/07/2008 11:19:55
#148

Ask highland not very mighty.

#145 Your not going to change the result, live with it, ooer i say the heat i on, im moist
136

,

26/07/2008 11:20:07
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
137

Tom R,

26/07/2008 11:20:35
#48 Stephen Fae Scotland.

You seem to have forgotten about the Perth and Kinross by election SNP gain. This was the last SNP by election gain (in 1995) and is still held by the SNP to this day.

Times have changed. Deceive yourself if you must, but don't try to deceive others :-)
138

izzie,

dundee 26/07/2008 11:25:17
AM2 the right to self determination is inalienable wars have been fought for this all you can complain of is that a few rude remarks have been uttered. Independence is the natural state and Scotland will become so without a drop of blood being spilled. Makes one proud.
139

Oooer i say,

pinks sombreros bit on the side 26/07/2008 11:26:39
#152

Go get him pink, show him the white stuff, ooer i mean the right stuff
140

AM2,

Scotland,UK 26/07/2008 11:26:52
#149 Derick fae Yell

Raising concerns about extreme forms of nationalism isn't "negativity".

Should I read anything in the fact that you should choose to tackle me over highlighting it rather than distancing yourself from the comments themselves?
141

AM2,

Scotland,UK 26/07/2008 11:27:14
#150 Brian M

I was born in Ireland. So what? About 10% of the population of Scotland was born elsewhere.

Do you want me to leave Scotland because I'm not Scottish by birth? Or is it just because I'm not a supporter of independence? Ethnic or political?

And would you encourage people of Italian, Polish or Pakistani extraction to leave Scotland on the same basis?

Another thought. Will Derick fae Yell express disapproval of your desire to "cleanse" Scotland of people like me, or will he have another pop at me for challenging you over it?
142

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 11:28:12
145. Hey AM2, cheer up, listen to a couple of tunes from the Unionist mood movement collection:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diVwUomCcRY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7g6LenMQ5E
143

Dòmhnall,

enjoying the crack in the pub 26/07/2008 11:28:58
Mile taing to the SNP voters of Glasgow East !!! I raise my glass to your health.

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/latestnews/-Salmond-No-safe-seat.4327653.jp?CommentPage=1&CommentPageLength=1000#3048506

Unionists will often try to distort the benefits of self -determination by comparing it to the EU and Brussels. They say it will not matter if we are independent because the EU is growing in stature anyway. These points I will not dignify with detailed comment. However, I will say this: even if the EU gains more power and has more influence throughout Europe, it would not change the fact that this Union is completely unhealthy for our nation. Cultural imperialism destroys self esteem; that is just one reason why we need full independence from London, England to begin to address our own affairs.

A huge thank you to my fellow SNP activists who walked the streets of Shettleston speaking to voters. A HUGE leap forward for the area, and for the (soon to be independent) nation of Scotland.
144

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 11:30:05
#144 The Rev

I agree that capitalism is based on the rather unattractive human trait of greed and selfishness. There are some saints out there who do genuinely live their lives otherwise, but generally we try to do the best for ourselves and our families first. There is no real alternative to capitalism. The question, as you say, is how far governments should go to restrain its worst excesses. Well, I think Thatcher had it about right. Remove government from business. Brown, Blair, the Alexanders, etc etc are all career politicians. They've no idea abou life in the real world of business and I don't want to see similar career politicians, of any party, running businesses (Northern Rock, for exmaple was proved to be a badly run business and should have been allowed to go under)
145

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 11:31:16
157. Pathetic. Rather than accept the internet attracts some odd comments, and treat them as such, you show your bitter desperate desire to actually make these the centre of any discussion.

When asked if the mirror image, comments such as "Scots are parasites" and similar which fill the Daily Mail and Telegraph blogs, you dismiss these as being from fringe elements, but strangely seek to treat similar fringe comments here as central.

What a pathetic, hypocritical, spinning propagandist you are.

Tell us again the explanation for your post where you said "Mr Salmond, J accuse of bluster, spin and windbaggery" when the SNP predicted an earthquake?
146

John S,

26/07/2008 11:32:43
#148: Snowy Bottles, I haven't a clue about the UN\EU documentation on Scottish devolution, I would say that Scottish devolution came about because of the late John Smith unless the UN\EU documentation turns up or someone can give you more information. Tony Blair was more than reluctant on Scottish devolution but he could not renege on the promises made by John Smith, the previous leader of the Labour Party.
147

Scotish Exile,

26/07/2008 11:33:28
Career politicians should not be allowed, if you have not held down a real job in the real world, then you should not be allowed into politics.
Another thing, there are far too many politicians, get rid of the majority of them, they are not needed.
Well done SNP, slowly but surely Scotland is waking up to the fat that Labour are only in if for themselves
148

,

26/07/2008 11:33:37
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149

English Bob,

smethwick 26/07/2008 11:34:27
Well done the SNP. Fantastic result.

Don't bottle it when it comes to independence - time to sack the Union off forever.

Home rule for England.

150

Brian M,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 11:35:06
#157 AM2, you just need to go away and think again, that's all
151

Dr Blockbuster aka Vince,

John Muir's place. 26/07/2008 11:37:10
Comment number ONE HUNDRED & EEEEEEEEIGHTY ! Well ... not quite, :smiles:, but we are getting there!

Dr Blockbuster schaze ..
Q:You know what it means, don't you, if Labour loses all those seats?
A: They'll just have to stand instead! :roflmAo:

There's alot of Salmond fishing going on in Scotland at the moment! :wink:
152

Nellie,

Liverpool 26/07/2008 11:38:03
#53 Graham Simpson
It may be time for YOU to re-visit school or a library since there you will find the word "rabies" pre-dates that label given to the disease we now call Rabies. It's origin comes from the Sanskrit 3000 yrs BC word, Rabhas, which means "to do violence."

Hence, in a modern dictionary, you will find that "rabid" is ALSO defined as "going to extreme lengths in expressing or pursuing a feeling, interest, or opinion" (Quote Merriam-Websters dictionary.)

There! Bet y'neer imagined you'd larn so much in the wee pages of this comments blog!
153

AM2,

Scotland,UK 26/07/2008 11:38:56
#152 Pink Sombrero

Your attempts to represent me as feeling "deep anguish and panic" are remarkable. Why do you imagine that you know my mind better than I do? Who are you trying to convince?

Your bizarre conspiracy about "assumed monikers" doesn't warrant a reply.

Anti-Scottish comments - "parasites", "scroungers" etc - are generally posted by English nationalists. I'm not sure why you are attempting to attribute them to Scottish unionists.

I have seen suggestions from some unionists that the SNP is in some sense a “Nazi party”. Those are disgraceful.

However, I would argue the SNP has to take the problem of extreme nationalism - including within its own ranks - more seriously. On their website, people who share my political outlook are described as “enemies of Scotland”, “traitors within the gate” and only “claiming to be Scottish”. What sort of scene do such comments set?
154

,

26/07/2008 11:39:04
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155

Oooer i say,

bottoms up 26/07/2008 11:39:16
i only post as " oooer i say " and Highland Mighty.

#165 Good post , you tell him. Extra cream for you tonight big boy

#167 yes think about taking a very long hard think
156

MtnKat,

26/07/2008 11:39:28
I really hate it when I feel compelled to defend AM2. I rarely agree with him and have little respect for his penchant of answering sincere questions, civilly submitted, with spin.
His original post has merit. Some of the remarks made were beyond the pale and the argument that two wrongs make a right simply does not fly.

I do disagree that remarks directed at Margaret Curran are gratuitous. She has presented herself as a thoroughly unpleasant person whose priority was not her constituency. "I am sorry to have lost this for Labour" says it all.
157

NBJT,

North Berwick 26/07/2008 11:39:40
166

Great comment.

Let us all stand on our feet but work together within Europe.

Independence now!!!!
158

John S,

26/07/2008 11:40:06
Now Fortress Labour is breached, what on earth is next?
The stunning victory came about as a result of a combination of political nous, sophisticated intelligence gathering, cutting-edge computer software, streetwise activists and young locals attuned to the social networking revolution.
The SNP had well over 500 activists on the ground from all over Scotland on the final weekend of the campaign, all of whom will have gone back to their constituencies with a spring in their step.
Spearheading the effort were the crew from Dundee, who have been battle-hardened by wresting that city from Labour control and who were keen to demonstrate what can be achieved by sheer hard work on the streets.
And then there was the youthful nature of much of the constituency activist base. John Mason may be 51 and a councillor for a decade with an appeal to older voters, but other new councillors elected last May are younger and the constituency organiser is only 18.
Herald - July 26 2008 -http://tinyurl.com/6davdy
159

Dòmhnall,

QUESTION FOR AM2 26/07/2008 11:41:00
COMMENT FOR AM2 :

I have often wondered why so many Scots of Irish extraction, whether from the partitioned 6 counties, or from the republic, do not support the independence of Scotland. They hold this view whilst basking in the glory of the the Easter Rising and applauding Irelands later (and long overdue) independence from England (or the countries on Great Britain).

Can you offer any explanation for this phenomenon?
I am Scottish myself but do have some Irish great grandparents both on my maternal and paternal side. I consider the Irish as cousins, but dislike the negative view of Scottish independence held by many of them.
160

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 11:41:55
170. Pathetic - AM2 thinks anti-Scottish racist posts are OK because they come from "English nationalists" but wants to make odd and offensive comments posted on web blogs in the other direction central to discussion.

One could ask him what he thinks of a Labour MP, in Parliament, describing Alex Salmond as being like Hitler rather than his tittle tattle collection of silly quotes off web blogs many of which he posts himself.

Stop trying to divert discussion AM2 and get back to the subject of the SNP's historic and sensational victory.
161

Derick fae Yell,

The Hoose 26/07/2008 11:43:21
157 AM2,Scotland,UK 26/07/2008 11:27:14 Brian M

"Another thought. Will Derick fae Yell express disapproval of your desire to "cleanse" Scotland of people like me,"

AM2. You are a tiresome pedant presumably with no home life otherwise you wouldn't be on these forums 24 hrs a day. And your previous reference to your task as Pschy-ops was seriously distasteful, with undertones of the nastier past of your point of origin.

However, I would not support in any way calls for you to depart - indeed I welcome your literate debate on the merits of independence. The sound of one hand clapping would be dull.

"or will he have another pop at me for challenging you over it?"
Nope

PS - as you have already been advised, you're wrong in your dogmatic support of an outdated Union, and we are correct in our support of an Independent Scotland that will look after ALL its people, and cut a fine scandinavian swathe through the councils of Europe.

Got to go and do the Saturday shoite now.
Cheers

162

AM2,

Scotland,UK 26/07/2008 11:45:39
#165 #171

"I only post". Present continuous tense.

I posted for a while as AM, over a year ago. I posted once as Mirror Man. That was for a specific purpose which I explained at the time.

I didn't lie about my name and your "proven liar" comment is unfounded.

Why can't you address the issues I raised instead of going for the jugular?



163

AM2,

Scotland,UK 26/07/2008 11:47:28
#177 Pink Sombrero

You said: "AM2 thinks anti-Scottish racist posts are OK because they come from "English nationalists"..."

That's a classic example of the misrepresentation and demonisation which I've highlighted. I don't think they're OK and didn't say that. They're disgraceful. Why can't you address the actual issue instead of twisting it?
164

Mikey,

26/07/2008 11:47:56
OK, here's my spin.

A) The SNP won the election.
B) Labour will lose the next Westmiddenster election.
C) Alex Salmond, being the best politician on these isles by a mile, will swing the vote in referendum and Scotland will be independent.
D) Westmiddenster will find, when their source of oil wealth is cut off, that they're just a poor wee country, almost akin to Belgium.
E) Before all this happens, their will be unionist black ops and may be fighting in the streets, because all sensible unionists KNOW that when the cash cow is cut off, they're down the tube.

Saor Alba agus síochaint.
165

,

26/07/2008 11:49:01
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166

Loyal Jock,

Aberdeenshire 26/07/2008 11:50:06
Well done the SNP for showing 'Liebore' the door in Glasgow East! What a cracking campaign and the amount and enthusiasm of SNP activists who worked hard for this result was truly amazing.

Victory is a wonderful feeling. Freedom will feel even better I'm sure! Roll on 2010.

'Independence' Bring It On!!
167

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 11:51:07
180. AM2

the fact that you constantly seek to divert discussion to odd and offensive posts from a fringe element, but dismiss similar comments from another fringe element, just shows you to be a spinning propagandist.

WHy don't you just ignore the offensive posts from all sides and all fringes? Why re-post and re-quote some ad naseum unless it suits your pathetic obsession with smear and spin?
168

AM2,

Scotland,UK 26/07/2008 11:51:46
#176 Dòmhnall

I have no explanation for that phenomenon.
169

Mikey,

26/07/2008 11:53:34
AM2, i think you're misguided and that it all comes from your background.

I don't hate you and think that you sometimes put across your point very well. You DO seem to have a crown dependency and can't see that Scottish nationalsim is a political movement and not an ideological one, unlike the north of Ireland.

You do however, post some salient points and it's a fair point that patriotic Scots should have people like you around to remind us what we're fighting for.

I can't speak for others, but I feel you're a democrat and when faced with the 'stay or go' dilemma at independence, you'll make the right decision.
170

,

26/07/2008 11:54:25
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171

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 11:54:52
187. "without" your progagandising, smearing distractions AM2, I meant
172

AM2,

Scotland,UK 26/07/2008 11:55:18
#182 #184 Pink Sombrero

I said: "I only post as AM2", which is true. Why are you continuing to try and represent it as a lie?

You have not answers my three points about your post #66.

Your language is offensive and accusatory: "your lying", "spinning propagandist", "pathetic obsession" etc. Why do that? What purpose does it serve?

And I'll ask again: why not address the issue - and it is a critical issue - instead of just shooting the messenger, time and again?
173

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 11:57:53
180 AM2 : you say ""I only post as AM2", which is true"

but you also posted recebtly ""I only post as AM2", which is true"

These statements are incompatible.

As I say, when you stop smearing by trying to present fringe offensive posts as central, and actually address the subject which is the result of Glasgow East, we can move on.
174

AM2,

Scotland,UK 26/07/2008 11:58:03
#187 Pink Sombrero

Re: "low propagandising which characterises your hard line, fundamentalist Unionist psych-ops"

Unreal. You just won't let go. Please desist from being offensive.

This is what got your Ayrshire Scot username banned. Remember? You called me "neo-fascist" (ironic given your objection to the SNP being thought of in similar terms).
175

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 11:58:26
180 AM2 : you say ""I only post as AM2", which is true"

but you also posted recebtly ""I only post using 3 usernames"

These statements are incompatible.
176

AM2,

Scotland,UK 26/07/2008 11:59:37
#190 Pink Sombrero

Erm, identical statements are usually compatible.
177

kt mcallan,

scotland 26/07/2008 12:00:28
well done the SNP and John Mason and Glasgow East.

Despite winning this historic victory, though, it's a bit tiresome to have Gordon Thatcher overload - John Mason's name actually appears only once in this piece.
178

AM2,

Scotland,UK 26/07/2008 12:00:33
#192 Pink Sombrero

Without checking, I can say that you made that quote up. I would have spelled "three", not used the numeral "3".
179

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 12:00:48
193, erm, your statements ""I only post as AM2", which is true" and "I only post using 3 usernames" are neither identical, nor compatible, but thanks for the pedantry.

Tell us again how you did not lie, but it is all a question of the tense?
180

AM2,

Scotland,UK 26/07/2008 12:01:34
#173 MtnKat

Obviously I can't agree with everything you wrote there, but thank you for your principled stand.
181

,

26/07/2008 12:01:58
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182

,

26/07/2008 12:03:24
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AM2,

Scotland,UK 26/07/2008 12:03:57
#196 Pink Sombrero

Yes, it's a question of tense. "I only ever post as AM2" is true. But "I have only ever posted as AM2" would be false. That's why I haven't said that.

Your unwarranted attacks are beneath you. Is this really the road down which you wish political discourse in this country to go?
184

AM2,

Scotland,UK 26/07/2008 12:04:57
"I've only ever posted using three usernames"

Yes, that was true.
185

Darien,

Panama 26/07/2008 12:05:32
Good conclusion in the Massie article, which largely emphasises that Scotland (i.e. the nation) is THE issue for the next couple of years, albeit many still think it is bread and butter questions (wrong!). The two are inextricably linked, but more and more Scots can now see that full decision making powers and access to Scotland's resources are the best solution to tackle the bread and butter problems of today and tomorrow. Left, right or centre, are rather less important considerations when a once great nation is being reborn. People can focus on such matters in due course. Nice to see the Scottish Tories coming to their senses, at last - methinks they would have rather better prospects in an independent Scotland, as some within their ranks already recognise. Within the discredited, disjointed, disfunctional and outdated British State the Scottish Tories are unlikely to ever be a force again, and Cameron will make no difference north of Berwick upon Tweed. Independence however would be good for all Tories in that in England they would dominate, whilst in Scotland once things settle down post Independence they could make a solid comeback under Miss Goldie's astute leadership as people begin to focus once again on political leanings.

186

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 12:06:57
201. AM2
"I've only ever posted using three usernames

Yes, that was true."


145 AM2

"I only post as AM2"
187

AM2,

Scotland,UK 26/07/2008 12:07:43
Your invented quote was wrong on more than just "3" vs "three".

You claimed that I said: "I only post using 3 usernames".

That was intended to give the impression that I actively use three usernames. Present continuous tense.

What I actually said: "I've only ever posted using three usernames".

Past tense. I hope anyone reading can see the irony behind *you* accusing *me* of lying.
188

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 12:08:18
200. AM2

is re-posting oddball fringe posts, as you did at 145, really the way you want to base political discussion?

Or does that just suit your smearing agenda?

189

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 12:09:23
204. All very Clintonequeand reaching new heights of parsing and sophistry AM2.
190

AM2,

Scotland,UK 26/07/2008 12:10:47
#203 Pink Sombrero

Aren't you getting tired of this? Those statements are entirely compatible.
191

,

26/07/2008 12:12:37
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192

AM2,

Scotland,UK 26/07/2008 12:13:57
#205 Pink Sombrero

There is no "smearing agenda". The threads yesterday were abhorrent. There was a pack animal mentality evident. I am more concerned than ever that extremism is edging its way into Scottish politics. This needs to be addressed. That cannot be done if it is not exposed.
193

AM2,

Scotland,UK 26/07/2008 12:14:52
#208 Alex Armstrong

You're right. I'll leave him to spin his wheels. Goodbye.
194

,

26/07/2008 12:15:40
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,

26/07/2008 12:23:18
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,

26/07/2008 12:27:06
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Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 12:28:35
215. LOL. Strange reversal of the story, it is AM2 who huffs and puffs, but it is his little straw house that got flattened by the earthquake.
198

eddy barns,

HPB 26/07/2008 12:52:06
214/215,

Grow up!

217,

Don't encourage her.
199

King O The Picts,

Aus 26/07/2008 13:07:40
Well done to the SNP if you all pipe doon a wee moment and hush, you will hear me smile, now isn`t that nice?
`Maniacle laughter is heard tailing off as he digests the magnitude of the unionist collapse`
I hope this day is as happy for you as `Scottish` Labour has made mine.
Love and hugs to all of Glasgow East
xxxxxxxxx
200

Alfie Bett,

26/07/2008 13:14:59
Glasgow East was a colossal result for the SNP,the unionist media and the usual posters many under new monikers will try to twist and turn in an attempt to rationalise this result in some bizzare unionist way of thinking that this was a fluke and compare it to by elections in the past where the seats were retaken by labour at a general election.Not this time I feel, previously we had no popular SNP government in Edinburgh with a charismatic leader,no sleaze ridden despised Labour government in Westminster with an apparently inept leader who has lost all credibility,if anything at a general election John Mason will be returned with an even greater majority.
201

Cuthulan,

approx. 12,000 miles from Earth's core 26/07/2008 13:20:58
AM2
I see your at your old game of misdirection and muddying waters.
Abusive language ,ALL sides are guilty of this.I do NOT condone it BUT it is a forum and people will get heated ,if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen! For the rest of us we rise above it and STICK to the ISSUES.
Can I quote YOU
#180 AM2
" Why can't you address the actual issue instead of twisting it?"
The ACTUAL ISSUE is No Safe Seat For Labour you are waffling on about abusive language, is this to cover the sound of scrapping barrels and clutching at straws?
I think Salmond has a point what do you think?

I totally support your right to post on this forum ,even though I totally oppose your views . I could do with the laugh, if you where to predict a rise in mortallity ,people would stop dying!
I also do not condone trying to put peoples private information on the internet . But then the Government's very good at doing that without our help.
......Oh ,and I wouldn't buy a second hand car from you

#154 izzie
Independence is the natural state and Scotland will become so without a drop of blood being spilled. Makes one proud.

Me as well!!

I'm off to enjoy the weekend ,best wishes to ALL of you!
202

chico y,

26/07/2008 13:46:55
On the BBC coverage on Friday morning Douglas Alexander made a sarcastic comment that this was the only time John Mason would be mentioned alongside Barack Obama (in the media the next day). This really brought home the nasty, mean spirited nature of liebour. I thought Alexander was a senior figure, this just illustrates how toxic new liebour are, all the way to the top.

With Karadic having been netted I feel the Hague should be turning their attention to some of those reponsible for the crimes in Iraq.
203

GM,

26/07/2008 13:50:31
hmmm,

I should have known AM2 would have a diversionary tactic that would be employed over the next few months -

its on ehe has used before, but given the situation after the byelection its clear he has dusted it off again.



AM2's current tactic -
=======================

Spend two or three days trolling online forums getting scraps of triumphant 'abuse' directed towards unionists and attempt to present it as the central core and theme running through the whole SNP mindset.

Astonishing,
but then again, I've yet to see AM2's tactics (of whatever type) gain anything for his beloved union in over 18 months of posting (in fact he tends to have the opposite effect).
204

GM,

26/07/2008 13:53:59
@AM2
"I am more concerned than ever that extremism is edging its way into Scottish politics. This needs to be addressed. That cannot be done if it is not exposed."

and why is it that you only feel that SNP nationalist extremism is the only kind to be exposed?

what about unionist extremism?

what about socialist extremism?

what about tory extremism?

do none of these exist?


I feel that the labour campaign was 'extremist' and alarmist in its many attempts to attack the SNP - a tactic that has failed them *yet again*...
Why cant you be positive rather than negative???
205

GM,

26/07/2008 13:58:28
I also note that with the re-appearance of AM2, that moderation and removal of posts recurs.

Although I s'pose he doesn't even deny it now that he has moderation capability here.
206

GM,

26/07/2008 14:02:25
He moderates those who post the same message across all political stories but does the same thing himself!

207

Chum of Boris,

Henley-on-Thames 26/07/2008 14:02:40
It's a gorgeous day at Henley. I've just come inside to cool off. I can't understand all the fuss about multiple usernames. I use at least a dozen on the Scotsman board. I got four different ones on to toay's board before 7.00 am this morning.
Toodle pip. I'm off out again.
208

quepasache,

Caracas 26/07/2008 14:09:05
Hi all u yoat you Scotsmen! Estrellas en la constelación

I just saw the great news about winning Glasgow against the unionistas! What a great victory for freedom and independence. Listen we know here that to be a free country is the only way forward in this wicked world of Bush and Blair.

Hey I laughed like a drain, no, when they do the recount! They just couldn't beleive their eyes. What you say? stunned/

Your president, he is a capable man - you need to protect him so that no union extremistas try to kill him.

President Chavez sens his a big hug and he told me only last night he is going to invite Mister Salmond to his hacienda for some fun and games and discuss oil alliance in Euros.

But he say watch out for the Unionist gorillas they are everywhere and not to be taken lightly.

As youu Scots say they get 'extremely biarnie ! Ha!

But what the hell. Well done you SNP.

209

King O The Picts,

Aus 26/07/2008 14:21:21
229 GM Great point
extreamism in UK politics has generally been the bastion of the right wing `conservative`

The SNP was branded by Labour as Tartan Torries, absolute rubbish, there are more socialists in the SNP than are left in Labour.
The SNP are now the proven left wingers of Scottish politics, and have done such a fine job in such a short time that, Labour has had no option than to come out of its closet and fight a right wing campaign against them.
Blair destroyed and remnants of socialism that Labour had by reconstructing them to be as right wing as Thatcher was, so to claim the English market on votes.
This never settled well in Scotland as we are by nature in the majority a socialistic people.
Scottish Labour have always lived in the shadow of our southern neighbours, only under the challenges presented to them by The Scottish people have they shown their true colours, (and I do believe that to be yellow) in the level political arena.
Even now the Labour party in spite of their best efforts are moving to the right wing to differentiate themselves from the SNP.
This is the seed that eventually led to the abdication of Princess Tony, and will destroy Brown The Unelected.
Labour may yet find their way back, but I feel this is only likely to happen in an independant Scotland when their mission is to please the Scottish people, rather than appease their southern masters.
After all is said and done, I love Scottish politics and the animal it can be, my word hasn`t the last year been an extra ordinary ride, I am glad to have lived in this era.
210

,

26/07/2008 14:44:45
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Stuntman Mike,

26/07/2008 14:57:29
Labour would probably be quaking in their boots if the Nats really were a radical left wing alternative, but I think voters will find it extremely hard to distinguish them from the Lib Dems (leaving aside the Nats' charismantic leader), and wait until they get a load of poll tax 2...
212

,

26/07/2008 14:58:11
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,

26/07/2008 15:15:24
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,

26/07/2008 15:28:01
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Keith.W,

Brighton 26/07/2008 15:30:47
Not even the merest hint of Scot in my blood, but my heartfelt congratulations to The S.N.P. I have never voted Labour in my life and I am proud of that. It warms my heart to see them get the kicking they truly deserve. My hopes are with you all on the Independence issue. After all, we can all still be friends when you break free can't we?:)
216

Nikostratos,

26/07/2008 15:34:20
Topic of this thread.AM2 AM2 AM2 AM2 AM2 AM2 AM2 AM2 AM2 AM2 AM2 AM2 AM2 AM2 AM2 AM2 AM2 AM2 AM2 AM2 AM2

Boring,boring,boring AM2 dominatrix of the Nats he puts a ring through your noses and drags u all around the thread.
217

Keith.W,

Brighton 26/07/2008 15:37:16
This AM2 character would soon get bored and leave if everyone ignored him.
218

McMadman.,

26/07/2008 15:38:34
Ok Nikos, fair point, I was merely addressing a point made by a couple of other posters.

Have you got over the fact that the SNP won Glasgow East yet or are you still trying to spin that in fact 52% of those in Glasgow East didn't support the SNP ?
219

Stuntman Mike,

26/07/2008 15:39:14
#241: AM2's the only reason I stay loyal to this particular board. There just isn't the same buzz on other sites and threads are pretty moribund and lacking in panache when he's not around. AM2 is the King of the Bloggers (in Scotland anyway!)
220

McMadman.,

26/07/2008 15:45:06
#242 & #244

He is a scotsman employee. Fact.

He deletes posts he disagrees with practically instantaneously. Fact.

He can be entertaining. Fact.

But he disagrees with free speech and gets dissenting opinions pulled. Fact.

This means the full debate is not heard and thus appears somewhat onesided. Fact.

Bit sad when the press is supposed to believe in free speech. Fact.

Enough AM2 (Sorry Nikos, explanation was required).
221

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 15:47:46
oy eddy barns

grow down.


im in too good a mood to care what anyone says.
222

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 15:49:24
anyway some news peeps

kerr has declared hs is standing for the labour leaders job. (not browns the other one)

I know its confusing what with all the resignations and sackings (well not yet but we are waiting)
223

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 15:50:27
pink sombrero

woooooooooooo hoooooooooooooooooooooo

we won we won we won.

im still pished.
224

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 15:52:20
i like this bit so true

Ms Cunningham said: "What we can take from (the by-election] at an absolute minimum is that scaremongering about independence simply doesn't work. That is the difference from between five or ten years ago. That is another sign you can't simply frighten people away from voting SNP."
225

,

26/07/2008 15:53:25
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226

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 15:53:59
The above statement is the reason that the majority of scotland will vote snp at the next general election
227

Media 1,

cape town 26/07/2008 15:54:38
Labour have let people down, no doubt about it. The SNP are in the right place at the right time and thus look like a better option to the less informed or the overly bitter anti unionist.
I would prefer to see the Lib Dems in power in Scotland, what we have at the moment is an ineffective Labour giving seats away to a "freedom fighting Liberation Movement" with a potato on its shoulder
228

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 15:54:49
jimmy hmmm i wonder?
229

PointOf View,

Edinburgh Stirling Bridge. 26/07/2008 15:55:15
AM2.

As far as people from other countries living in Scotland go (10 per cent according to you) I’m more than fine with that. In fact i welcome it. Scots have a worldwide reputation for being a welcoming, generous and generally friendly people, world wide. I am extremely well travelled and base that on experience and the opinions of others.

However, when it comes to voting for independence, I am very clear it should be decided by the people of Scotland, that is indigenous Scots, not foreigners living here including you. I am not trying to be rude or insulting, its just the way I see it.
230

,

26/07/2008 15:57:01
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231

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 16:02:26
why dont the unionists see that the earthquake is a sign that the landscape has changed there is now an snp mountain in front of them. They are still relying on old outdated concepts of poltics in scotland.

here news for unionists

nothing in politics is going to be the same again ever in scotland.

232

Graham Simpson,

Vancouver 26/07/2008 16:04:26
#169... Nellie (all the way from Liverpool, by the way... are you of Irish descent ?). Thank you for your learned comments. Yes I am very familiar with the alternative use of the word rabid although I would challenge your belief of it's Sanskrit origin.

My comment on Bob's use of the word was because someone who is a passionate patriot and committed to a legitimate cause should not be described as such. Yes, rabid also implies fanaticism, extreme anger or violence etc. as it's latin root 'rabicus meaning mad' implies but that is not a fair judgement on the fast growing majority of Scots, regardless of where they live who clearly see that the only way for Scotland to prosper is to fight for independence.

For a small country of five million souls to to persist in winning it's freedom from a 50 million peopled world power (albeit fading) whose leaders have have been consistently lying, distorting and suppressing information about Scotland's resources and potential... we cannot be milquetoasts about this! We must be tough and determined or we will not succeed.

Perhaps if you agree with Bob10, you would also describe the great English patriot Winston Churchill as rabid in his defence of his country. After all he too... spent much of his declining year's wasting his time living overseas and not for one moment did anyone question his right to comment on English affairs.
233

Media 1,

cape town 26/07/2008 16:07:44
Karin xxx

You are right about the politics, but that is because the SNP are not politicians, they are freedom fighters!
Africa is full of freedom fighters, so yes, you bet that times are changing.
234

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 16:12:13
258 hmm interesting media 1 so the people of glasgow east voted for a freedom fighter?

are you as pished as me?
235

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 16:13:21
jeez media 1 i now have a mental picture of wee guys with kahki and paint guns going about saying vote for me or i will paint ball you.

i dont know and i get told to grow up..........
236

,

26/07/2008 16:13:45
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237

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 16:15:33
media 1 you are not getting a true picture of what is happening in scotland from over there.

you dont hear the ordinary people talking about the good the snp are doing and watch them in the shops being careful about what they buy because of brown. You dont hear them saying if we were independent things would be differnt I LIVE HERE i do hear them saying it.
238

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 16:16:37
261 and yet whenever i tell him i was born in england and am therefore english he has nothing to say about my supporting the snp
239

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 16:28:16
#262 karinxxx

I yield to no-one in my loathing of Brown, his personality and his brand of politics, but even I am not so daft as to suggest he is responsible entirely for the present economic situation. What influence does he have on the price of oil and the credit crunch in the USA? And as for suggesting that us being independent would make much of a difference is complete tosh. Anyone takes even the most passing interest in the Nat's much vaunted Irish miracle will know they're in as much s**t as we are at the moment.
240

,

26/07/2008 16:29:20
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241

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 16:38:05
264 draco

so basically what you are saying then is that the chancellor and prime minister has no control of the british economy

i mean correct me if i am wrong but i thought that was there job?

brown as chancellor and prime minster is supposed to have his finer on the pulse and know about things like that. And if he cant control the british economy because of things that happen elsewhere in the world then what is the point of having him?
242

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 16:39:34
and as for his brand of politcs

please explain the difference between his politcs and the tories because as far as i and the people of glasgow east can make out

there isnt any................
243

Media 1,

cape town 26/07/2008 16:42:42
Karin

You dont hear that, because I am there a lot throughout the year and I dont hear it.
The SNP are not a political party, not in the true sense. Sure some of them can spin you a story about independence being the right thing, but could they run Scotland any better than she is run in the union? Of course not, you know that and I know that!
They are poor minded freedom fighters with a following that is more inclined to view Scotland as a wee dog as opposed to appreciating her for the powerful union member that she is..
In my eyes Scotland is nobody's wee dog, in yours she is a slave to England, which is deeply saddening!
244

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 16:43:59
# 266 karinxxx

I'm no economic expert, but it hardly takes a genius to know that we have a world economy nowadays and that some factors are beyond the control of national finance ministers, no matter how much you want it to be otherwise because it suits your own political dogma. The price of many things is going up because the price of oil is going up because there's a greater demand for it from newly industrialising countries like China, India and Brazil. The price of foodstuffs is going up likewise. You can hardly blame Darling and Brown for that. Much as even I would like to.
245

Auckland Arab2,

26/07/2008 16:48:44
#235 Ahem! Don't count on that!
246

indune1,

Canada 26/07/2008 16:50:19

Hulllooo Karin - the rate things are going for the SNP, you'll need a strap-on liver!
247

Media 1,

cape town 26/07/2008 16:59:20
Full blown independence under the SNP will be a disaster.
The hospitals will be in a state of disrepair, the police departments will be third rate, the public transport systems will be third world, the roads will begin to fall apart, unemployment will be the worst Scotland has ever known, investment will be hard to come by and schools we will be worse than ever before.
Prisoners will be happy though! More people will be on the dole and more people will need to leave for a better life down South.
But hey, at least they Scotland wont be represented on the Union Jack.
oh gawd help us.
248

indune1,

Canada 26/07/2008 17:01:24

273 - Your crystal ball must be very large to see all that.
249

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 17:03:53
draco lets get one thing straight stop projecting your thoughts on to me.

my country is slave to no one or nothing.

the reason you are not hearing it is because you are not looking and listening. You do hear it. ive heard it.

see the next time you come home just to prove my point pretend you support independence and start a conversation with a complete stranger about fuel prices or rising costs of food and watch what happens.
250

European Scot,

26/07/2008 17:04:15
262 Karinxxx

If they really are saying that, then it looks like a great future for Scotland.
What I found disappointing, was an interview with an ordinary shopper in Glasgow East, who stated that she was happy to vote for the SNP at this by-election, but was not yet convinced by Independence.
There is still some work to be done on the subject of National self confidence, and self belief, amongst many Scots.
I'm sure it will come, by having the example of a competent SNP administration, but the worry is how much a Labour led Westminster will try and thwart that, by minimising the annual 'allowance' in future budgets, in spite of record windfall revenues from North Sea oil.
A deal with a future Tory government may minimise the current effects of a Labour Government, doing its up-most to scupper the efforts of an SNP government.
In the future, a pragmatic approach from a Tory led Westminster, writing off their chances in Scotland, and accepting an Independent Scotland, would guarantee their own long term future in Westminster, thanks to a predominantly 'conservative' England.
It would also give a truly Scottish, and Independence supporting Conservative Party, a far better chance of success north of the border. Annabel Goldie does after all carry a level of respect.
It's all a question of how important that tag, 'and Unionist Party' is to the Conservative Party.

265 Camster

" Who cares about Glasgow East home of Parkhead. The real news is the merger of the Conservatives and the UUP. We are the people and unlike Karin the true Scots"

I really had you figured as being much more capable than that.
251

Media 1,

cape town 26/07/2008 17:04:28
indune1

I think that Man United will finish above Middlesbrough this season......
Some crystal ball eh
252

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 17:05:52
273 you just dont see it do you. how nonsensical and completely at odds your two statemnts are.

on one hand brown cant control the world economy but staying in britain is best for scotland but if scotland leaves it will be a disaster those two ideas completely conflict.

how can you not see that?????
253

indune1,

Canada 26/07/2008 17:06:42
277 - Media 1 - LOL!!! I just hope my Magpies finish in the top ten!
254

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 17:08:01
276 i know that the bbc documentary on oil convinced a lot of scots who were wavering. We need more information out there like that.
255

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 17:09:18
did the papers over there say anything about glasgow east dunnie?
256

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 17:12:09
just noticed my commnet to am2 got removed here it is again

we won
we won
we won
we won

maybe it was because i said bye and mentioned am2's supposedly not true first name. suprisingly begins with an A
257

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 17:13:22
although i dont know what ws wrong with his staw man and straw house being blown away by the earthquake comment? guess am2 just didnt like looking silly
258

,

26/07/2008 17:13:36
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,

26/07/2008 17:14:23
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karinxxx,

26/07/2008 17:15:11
awright andee. hows it goin.

have ye stopped greetin yet?
261

Media 1,

cape town 26/07/2008 17:15:20
Karin

BROWN? Do you think that Brown is worth selling Scotland down the river for?
Brown will be gone long before Scotland even gets near independence.
Brown is a tube, we know that!
The union is a must for Scotland for the same reason that PriceWaterhouseCoopers was better for the companies who unified to make it happen.
262

,

26/07/2008 17:16:20
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263

AM2,

Scotland,UK 26/07/2008 17:17:47
Now, the rest of the post, which provides a broader context for the misrepresentation in #66. I don’t know which parts were considered to cross the line, so I’ll just *** out a few of the choicest words and repost it in small sections.

#66 Pink Sombrero

Now, a few general observations. I just scanned the CyberNat “celebration” threads here and at the Herald and am dismayed by their general tone and import. I have seen:

• mean-spirited goading and vicious insults directed at unionist bloggers

• calls for unionist bloggers to leave Scotland, the worst example of which was a sinister comment that “you'll either leave the country (Scotland) or You'll join the S.N.P.. You have no other choices.”
264

indune1,

Canada 26/07/2008 17:17:56

Karin - absolutely! Also a balanced commentary on Alex Salmond's performance so far.

However, today much focus has been given to the simmering revolt with the Broonster's cabinet.

Was out for beers with my Weegie mates after footie.

To a man, they said they weren't surprised by the result for it was largely Labour's policies that made leave Scotland. A form of clearances?

Anyway, how are you?
265

,

26/07/2008 17:18:13
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266

AM2,

Scotland,UK 26/07/2008 17:18:29
#66 Pink Sombrero (continued)

• the idea that the “cause” of nationalism is “right” and “undeniable”, and that anyone who prefers to remain part of Britain is beneath contempt, should be ignored etc

• gratuitous insults directed at the other candidates, especially Margaret Curran

• the demonization of the other parties as “s***bags”, “Na*is” etc
267

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26/07/2008 17:18:59
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268

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 17:19:21
287 media 1

look it doesnt matter how many times you say you dont want independence it is still going to happen wether you want it or not. Because its not you thats going to decide but the people of scotland.
269

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 17:19:33
#272 Richard

I'm not sure about that. I suppose the Scottish government could keep the price of petrol artificially low through tax, but they would have no influence on the price of stuff manufactured abroad and affected by the higher oil price in other countries. Similarly they would have no influence on the price of wheat, rice, food oil etc. Unless you think a Scottish government should subsidise food and keep it artificially low from revenue? That old trick went out with the Commies as far as I'm aware and not to be recommended in a grown-up Western economy.
270

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26/07/2008 17:20:37
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271

indune1,

Canada 26/07/2008 17:21:41
290 - second last sentence should have read:" . . . Labour policies that made them leave Scotland".
272

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 17:22:03
#275 karin

I'm sorry, I literally can't work out what you're trying to say. It appears you've slipped into rave mode.
273

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26/07/2008 17:23:37
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274

Porky,

Socialist Republic of Walsall 26/07/2008 17:23:52
Congratulations Scotland, from the Southern British EU Regions (formerly England). This victory can only help us get rid of labour, who have only hung on to UK power through Scottish seats. Perhaps our two countries can get on as friends once the divide and rule maniacs are out of the way.
PS Please don't say England when you mean London - we hate them as well.
275

LEAL,

26/07/2008 17:23:56
Karinxxx
Not long now.London Rule wont last much longer.The lies about Scots being incapable of running their own country have been blown out of the water.The biased media cant keep a lid on it any more. Its Time!
276

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 17:24:41
no im still pished from celebrating media 1
277

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 17:29:52
leal well said.

god my typin is quite good even if ia m still drunk
278

,

26/07/2008 17:31:01
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,

26/07/2008 17:31:49
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karinxxx,

26/07/2008 17:31:50
off to vind the voddy. back later mybe when im sober.
281

AM2,

Scotland,UK 26/07/2008 17:33:04
#306 Karin

Good idea. Post #305 will wait.
282

,

26/07/2008 17:33:58
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283

European Scot,

26/07/2008 17:34:03
280 Karinxxx

"276 i know that the bbc documentary on oil convinced a lot of scots who were wavering. We need more information out there like that."

Agreed.
I have to say, I was amazed that this documentary ever got on air.
Doubtless there were numerous programmes after it, questioning its findings.
You are right though, more accurate information needs to be made available to the Scottish public.
Apart from this one off Scottish documentary, where else in Scotland would you expect to see such information ?
The truth these days would appear to be mainly in the English press, and on the Internet.
284

indune1,

Canada 26/07/2008 17:36:29
Karin - All right. If you are going to ignore a chum, fair enough.

Take it easy.

Remember what a fairly well-known poet and balladeer once sang, " For the times, they are a changing".

Touch not the p*ssy but with a velvet glove!!

Motto of the MacKee resistance movement.

Cheers.
285

Alba Abú,

26/07/2008 17:41:30
This slaughter of the loyalist Labour party candidate is a clear sign that the days of the Scot/ Brit loyalist- unionists are indeed drawing to a close.

Saor Alba!
286

inkster,

Marykirk 26/07/2008 17:42:11
There's nothing dangerous about a properly constituted, perfectly legal, political party with clear manifesto aims standing for election and getting voted into power by the people

Wither AM2 is a car salesman in Kilmarnock or the editor of the online version of the Scotsman I don't know, but he is clearly a vain agent provocateur.

There is nothing, absolutely sinister about the SNP as Am2 and his ilk would have us believe.

Alex Salmond, Nicola Sturgeon, John Swinney. A fearsome cast of desperados? I don't think so.

This is not a revolution, there are no guns, this is democracy pure and simple. The expression of the will of the people. Without the servile services of the broadcasting services or the press.







287

Alba Abú,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 17:44:21
#311 Well said! Its a known fact that Media 1 is a court jester for his English masters.
288

COMMENT #145,

Moderator 26/07/2008 17:48:16
26/07/2008 11:11:21
Comment Removed By Administrator Reason (Racisme)

We do not allow racist and vile abuse on our forums.
289

indune1,

Canada 26/07/2008 17:50:02
313 - Inkster. Best post so far. Well said.
290

COMMENT #145,

lmao 26/07/2008 17:50:48
#307 AM2,Scotland,UK 26/07/2008 17:33:04

help help i have been deleted help








boo bloody boo
291

Oooer i say,

camping with lean leat, Oooer. 26/07/2008 17:56:33
Alex Salmond, Nicola Sturgeon, John Swinney. A fearsome cast of desperado's? I don't think so.

Oooer i say, it takes a desperado to know a desperado

Oooer, Hoos poos perado!!
or
Oooer, Hoos poos desperado!!
or
Oooer, Hoos poos Berero, ah i like that.
292

indune1,

Canada 26/07/2008 18:06:33
320 - Meths - Or starting practising self-immolation!
293

indune1,

Canada 26/07/2008 18:27:24

Just great Meths. Right in the centre of a wicked thunderstorm. I wonder is Gordon Broon aboot?
294

,

26/07/2008 18:30:28
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295

Jimmy Le Pie,

26/07/2008 18:43:43
#328 Meths

Oui, fitlike??????
296

Rufus T. Firefly,

26/07/2008 18:48:52
I wonder how soon we will see a rise in the life expectancy rate for Glasgow East constituents.
297

Miss H,

26/07/2008 18:52:41
Quite an interesting debate this. To address the substance of the article Alex Salmond is correct – there is no safe seat for Labour anywhere any more in Scotland. What that means is that they (Labour) will throw everything they have at us to try and discredit us.

During Glasgow East they told pensioners that the SNP Government were taking away their bus passes and scrapping the free central heating programme. They even dug out the old one about the SNP shutting down Catholic schools. We will get more of this and it will get nastier as time goes on.

What that means for us in the SNP is that we have to stay calm and not allow ourselves to get riled and react on their level. That is what they want. So in the words that used to end Hill Street Blues let’s be careful out there. We are in the endgame now and more than ever we have to be disciplined and stick to our goal. Don’t get sidetracked. Every constituency is winnable – the only limitations are those we put on ourselves.

Everyone who believes in independence should now be working for a majority of Scottish seats at Westminster to go to the SNP. And on that note I will bid adieu to the Scotsman forum because as fun as it is it’s not actually going to help us win.

(I might come back after the election just to say ha ha ha ).
298

Jimmy Le Pie,

26/07/2008 18:54:35
#331

I was pointing out the difference between the 'canoe ' couple getting 6 years for a £250,000 swindle and an ex MP and £600,000 fiddle with no polis investigation.

Benefit fraudsters get hounded (rightly) for breaking the law.

MP's don't???

But getting the same post removed from here and being banned, while the Herald leaves it tells me someone has undue influence with the Hootsmon!!!
299

Jimmy Le Pie,

26/07/2008 18:58:33
Meths - Aye good point.

I'll remember for next time.

Work beckons
300

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 19:02:25
Glad to see AM2's offensive and diversionary post at 145 has been deleted
301

Rufus T. Firefly,

26/07/2008 19:02:48
331 And your French is better than your English.
302

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 19:05:57
285. Alberto

thanks. I was there for only 10 days as sadly had to depart Monday of this week for work, so missed the last 4 days. The SNP activists were to a man and woman gentleman and ladies, patriots and selfless in their dedication to an ideal, with much enthusiasm, smiles, good cheer and dedication (comparing to the Labour activist "squad" of English Labour MPs and staffers ordered north), and it was a great privelege to stomp round Glasgow east with them.
303

Rufus T. Firefly,

26/07/2008 19:06:14
#339 Simple things please simple people.

304

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 19:10:52
342, You please me greatly. So does your bitterness, AM2, and your resorting to more fake monikers. Which "business associate" did you steal this one off, LOL you sad wee man
305

Rufus T. Firefly,

26/07/2008 19:19:14
#343 Superb.

The obsession you Natz have with AM2 is a delight to behold.

In truth, he is just to clever for you. The only weapon you have in your armoury is the dishing out of personal abuse and as soon as you do that you have lost the argument.

Long live Am2.
306

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 19:21:33
344. You refer to the poster whose vile, racist, abusive post at 145 was deemed so inappropriate it was deleted?
307

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 19:22:49
344. PS, Rufus-T-AM2-I-saw-an-ad-for-a-bar-in-Glasgow ( so used that name rather than steal someone else's) what did you make of the sensational SNP victory in Glasgow east?
308

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 19:27:38
318. LMAO
309

Rufus T. Firefly,

26/07/2008 19:28:33
#345 I did not see the post to which you refer. It is hard to believe however as that is not AM2's style.
310

Pedro-snr,

Kilmarnock 26/07/2008 19:30:40
Be afraid Des Browne. Be very afraid.

The nail on which your jaicket is hung is about as shooglie as it can get. The voters of Kilmarnock and Loudoun are just waiting to give it the last nudge.
311

,

26/07/2008 19:30:56
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312

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 19:32:05
348. Please see post 145 (deleted) - see also post 291 where AM2 admits he posted the material at 145. Clearly the Scotsman judged his attempts to inject racism and abuse into the discussion so objectionable as to deleted him
313

Rufus T. Firefly,

26/07/2008 19:32:09
#346 yes it was a good victory. Congratulations to John Mason who in my opinion, is a very likable gentleman.
314

European Scot,

26/07/2008 19:32:54
330 Rufus T. Firefly

"I wonder how soon we will see a rise in the life expectancy rate for Glasgow East constituents."

A new sense of optimism is always going to be good for the mind, and that in turn can have such a beneficial influence over the body.
So life expectancy may well be increased in Glasgow East.
In your own case, with all that negativity ........... well there's always hope !
315

Pink Sombrero,

Ayrshire and Aberdeenshire, always Scot 26/07/2008 19:33:56
349. Agreed, if Des Browne thinks he can swan around Kilmarnock and the Loudoun valley (and Stewarton/ Fenwick) peddling illegal wars, 10p tax rate abolition, post office closures, and cuts to millionaire's inheritance tax, with a bouffant hair do, he is sadly mistaken.
316

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 19:36:06
330. Sooner than had another representative of the problem been elected.

But good of you to acknowlegde the disgusting failure of London Unionist parties in this regard.

And absolutely great that now at least Unionist London party supporters like you now even raise the question.

Had Labour won the question of multiple deprivation and health in the east end would once again have been shelved.

Your post at 330 is proof positive of what the SNP said, that the SNP winning would focus attention.

317

Rufus T. Firefly,

26/07/2008 19:38:25
There is nothing wrong with posts 291 to 293.

You are clutching at straws there.
318

,

26/07/2008 19:42:25
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319

Rufus T. Firefly,

26/07/2008 19:44:34
#353 and 355 You both know that there will be absolutely no difference to the Glasgow East average life expectancy.
320

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 19:45:42
358. Eh? Based on what? Are you saying no action by government can change the health and economics of the east end of Glasgow?

321

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 19:47:49
359. Incapacity benefit, and possibly he will need grants to convert his "workplace" (house) to suit his incapacities....

Did you find it odd that Margaret Curran said in a TV debate that Mr Marshall had an actual office (not his house) in the constituency? One would have thought, in 8 years as an MSP serving the same area, referring cases etc, she would be aware he had no office (other than his house)

322

Rufus T. Firefly,

26/07/2008 19:48:24
#357 I have no idea what you are talking about. i did not see the famous post at 145. Not ever.
323

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26/07/2008 19:50:34
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AM2,

Scotland,UK 26/07/2008 20:00:31
#348 Rufus T. Firefly

Post #145 was mine. It contained a rebuttal of Pink Sombrero's #66 (which I have reposted in #284).

It also contained a summary of some of the types of offensive comments which were made by nationalists in "celebratory" posts yesterday. I have reposted those, with a couple of the more colourful words ****ed out, in #289 through #293).

Seemingly continuing his earlier vendetta, in #363 Pink Sombrero is attempting to give you the false impression that I was the originator of the material which the moderator judged was inappropriate.
325

European Scot,

26/07/2008 20:00:55
358 Rufus T. Firefly

"#353 and 355 You both know that there will be absolutely no difference to the Glasgow East average life expectancy."

Your comment above should be looked at alongside another of your pronouncements, three days ago :-

226
Rufus T. Firefly
23/07/2008 22:50:40
Current odds are

Labour 2/7
SNP 9/4

Looks like it will be a whitewash.

SNP have no chance."

So looking at the two comments above, what conclusions can we draw ?!
326

Rufus T. Firefly,

26/07/2008 20:04:52
#360 Erm No.

I am saying that no matter who won that seat, average life expectancy will not change.

The election of John Mason changes nothing.
327

,

26/07/2008 20:05:47
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Rufus T. Firefly,

26/07/2008 20:06:08
#360 Erm No.

I am saying that no matter who won that seat, average life expectancy will not change.

The election of John Mason changes nothing.
329

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 20:06:28
367. Really? I think the election of the SNP there will focus London Labour minds
330

AM2,

Scotland,UK 26/07/2008 20:08:05
#350 Pink Sombrero

I provided a potted summary of offensive posts made yesterday by various nationalists.

It was originally in reply to your post #66, which wilfully misrepresented me. That was one of the trends which I observed in yesterday's posts. Your post #66 was effectively a case study.

For you now to attempt to argue that my exposure of such offensive behaviour is "probably illegal" and indeed to falsely accuse me of posting the material myself is quite remarkable. Are you so focused on your "goal" that you cannot see the disturbing trend here?
331

Rufus T. Firefly,

26/07/2008 20:10:22
#366 I was wondering when that post would be dragged up and held against me!

Advantage You. I was wrong.
332

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26/07/2008 20:11:10
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Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 20:15:13
372

"I provided a summary of offensive posts"

What a tasteless, low grade propagandist you are.

If the fringe posts were offensive, they are best ignored, as the internet is full of such.

I, and everyone, could endlessly quote anti-Scottish posts from across the internet (real examples from the Scotsman -" Scots are parasites" "Scots are like vampires sucking England's blood")

To quote these merely gives them more air time and gives more advertising to inappropriate views taht would be deleted

Anyone who is not a racist and is a democrat will wondere why you chose, deliberately, and repeatedly, to re-cycle, re-post and promote offensive material? And do so in a one sided manner. It must be because you think doing so serves your cause.

This clearly identifies you as a purveyor of tasteless material - a view the Scotsman clearly shares by dint of the fact they have deleted several of your re-cycling, inappropriate posts.
334

Rufus T. Firefly,

26/07/2008 20:15:19
Ah. . . so Pink Sombrero you are misrepresenting AM2.

Very disappointing and very underhand.
335

AM2,

Scotland,UK 26/07/2008 20:16:07
Pink Sombrero

Let's see if I could have posted this offensive material.

“AM2 if you watch this, you'll either leave the country (Scotland) or You'll join the S.N.P.. You have no other choices. Bye, Bye, AM2.” – mark mccann

He's been posting since at least May 2007:
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/ViewArticle.aspx?articleid=3282694
336

,

26/07/2008 20:16:57
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AM2,

Scotland,UK 26/07/2008 20:17:45
Pink Sombrero

Or this...

“Now we can begin to appreciate how the Romanians felt after getting shot of Ceausescu or the East Germans after the Wall came down.” – Encephalon

Here's him/her posting in September 2007:
http://sport.scotsman.com/ViewArticle.aspx?articleid=3328049
338

tartan army 2222,

gloating 26/07/2008 20:17:48
What a day Thursday was. The people of Glasgow made the wisest choice and rid themselves of the parasites that are New Labour. This is a major turning point in Scottish politics. This is the time when the rest of Glasgow looks at itself and says 'wait a second, we can do this'.

And I can't leave without a gloat - AM2, Media1 etc. How does it feel to see your precious union dying before your eyes? It may not be dead yet, and I don't want to say it will definitely happen, but the odds are shortening. Cannae wait.
339

,

26/07/2008 20:19:42
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Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 20:21:04
377. If it was offensive, why re-post it?

It can only be for base smear.

Now, what did you make of the SNP historic win in Glasgow East?
341

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26/07/2008 20:23:11
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,

26/07/2008 20:24:04
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AM2,

Scotland,UK 26/07/2008 20:26:39
#378

Raise my game, you say! Why did you misrepresent me in post #66?

Why did you go on to misrepresent the "three usernames" comment?

Why did you continue your vendetta by misrepresenting me to Rufus T Firefly?

What's your game, Ayrshire? You've seen the Guga posts, the Hen Broon posts, and the rest. You know extremism exists. Yesterday it exploded all over this paper and the Herald. I pasted dozens of examples into a Word file this morning. The material I've mentioned on this thread is barely the tip of the iceberg. You know this. You saw it. But now you choose to play their game. Why?
344

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 20:30:54
380. repulsive. If the posts you refer to are inappropriate, why re-cycle them?

It must serve a one side agenda of smear and moral puritanism I and many others find distasteful.

your posts above, inventing, from nothing, and inviting, blame for high fuel prices, to fall on the - in your post- *expletive* English, are disgusting and inciteful.

Raise your game.
345

AM2,

Scotland,UK 26/07/2008 20:30:58
#379 Pink Sombrero

Would it surprise you to know that I reported my own #284 and briefly explained to the moderator what I was doing?

But those posts were in reply to your #66. You are vilifying me here, and that is why the other material is relevant.

You have even suggested that my summary of the offensive material may, in itself, be "illegal"!

How's that for twisted logic? Shades of "Cash for Questions", "Wendygate" etc. You learn fast - from the Angus MacNeil School of Political Mudslinging.
346

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 20:32:00
380. The only person "playing the game" of fringe elements is you, by re-posting and re-cycling silly posts. Why? I think it is deliberate and disgusting.

347

,

26/07/2008 20:35:02
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AM2,

Scotland,UK 26/07/2008 20:36:08
#381 Pink Sombrero

It is not "smear and moral puritanism" to refute your four (at least) instances of blatant misrepresentation of me.

It is not "smear and moral puritanism" to observe that they tie in closely with a repugnant - and unchallenged - group of anti-English, insulting and divisive posts which appeared yesterday.

It is not "smear and moral puritanism" to express concern that we must guard against such extreme views crossing over into the political mainstream.

What is "repugnant" is your refusal to acknowledge that you deliberately misrepresented me.

What is "repugnant" is your attempt to claim that I was responsible for the dozens of offensive posts.

What is "repugnant" is your refusal to accept that you, sir, have become part of the problem.
349

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 20:36:21
right im back

im also still pished
350

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 20:37:06
hello pink sombrero

how the ell are you.

what a nice name it reminds me of the ayshire coat
351

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 20:37:31
god this seing double lays havock with the ypin
352

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 20:38:12
typin
353

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26/07/2008 20:39:24
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AM2,

Scotland,UK 26/07/2008 20:39:40
#384 Peter Baleares

Re: "you can debate without insults, which very few SNP supporters are capable of."

Thank you. But actually, I'm genuinely annoyed by Ayrshire Scot/Pink Sombrero's posts, and #386 is borderline intemperate. So I'll retire from the thread. This isn't what I wanted.
355

,

26/07/2008 20:39:44
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356

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 20:40:26
intemperate im inevriated
357

,

26/07/2008 20:40:48
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358

,

26/07/2008 20:41:46
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359

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 20:44:15
392. A<2, 386 is your own post.
360

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 20:44:35
allo meths
361

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 20:44:50
im pished
362

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 20:45:30
anyway how are you all cutie pies.
363

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 20:46:37
anway im still celebrating that the snp won


woooooooooooooooooooo hoooooooooooooooooooo
364

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26/07/2008 20:47:26
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tartan army 2222,

26/07/2008 20:49:26
392 AM2

Yes it is.
366

,

26/07/2008 20:55:44
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26/07/2008 20:58:05
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,

26/07/2008 20:59:13
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,

26/07/2008 21:01:20
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Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 21:02:17
412. Must say, AM2, you kind of blew the cover of "peter, baleares" by weeighing in so heavy against your own detractors there, are you miffed or what? LOL LOL
371

Media 1,

cape town 26/07/2008 21:02:52
Macgilcuddy

Please do me a favour next time you walk down George Street. Take a look around at the wealth that exists in that city. Take a look at the people and recognise their freedom and remember that the SNP has had nothing to do with Scotland's success or its obvious liberation from the shackles that oppress some other and less fortunate countries..
Scotland is free,Scotland is wealthy and Scotland is great. The SNP paint a different picture though, they tell you Scotland is under siege by Westminster power brokers, they tell you Scotland is a small dog and that she is under nourished and in trouble.
These freedom fighters eh! You cant trust them.
372

,

26/07/2008 21:04:21
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,

26/07/2008 21:05:56
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,

26/07/2008 21:16:11
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karinxxx,

26/07/2008 21:18:32
thats terrible how homophobic can you get.

bum chums. saddo
376

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 21:21:32
420. LOL LOL LOL

How do you profess to know AM2's mind better than he does?

How do you know what AM2 cares about or does not?

You are, clearly and obviously, AM2. And yet again you use a different moniker.

And I love your Unionist view point - " whereas my view is, that if all the chips on all the Scotsmen shoulders, in all the world, could be piled in one place,somewhere in the highlands, making Scotland slide into the sea, and dissapear forever, I would not give a twopennyfart. "

Just sad to see that you are yet another contributer who cannot post without indulging in either racism or abusive homophobia.

When you posted "bum chums" above, do you mean that you feel gay people should have no place in politics, or are you just so disgusted by gay people that you feel the need to post abuse of that nature?
377

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 21:26:04
424 i rember that
378

,

26/07/2008 21:26:42
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karinxxx,

26/07/2008 21:26:46
ooer incest. thats not right
380

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 21:28:52
or did i pick you up worng
381

,

26/07/2008 21:29:47
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,

26/07/2008 21:32:47
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karinxxx,

26/07/2008 21:34:23
cant bleive am2 is till doing the whole saving posts thng
384

,

26/07/2008 21:34:53
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karinxxx,

26/07/2008 21:35:43
wired up wrong

thats so homophobic is unreal.

i dint think attitudes liek that sitll existed
386

Media 1,

cape town 26/07/2008 21:36:23
Macgillcuddy

Far from it, we all embrace the democracy in SA,but sadly the masses are now worse off than before under the guidance of a regime that is ill equipped to run the country.

In terms of my visits to Scotland as you put it. I call them home comings, after all, Edinburgh is home and by far the greatest city in the world. I cannot embrace the SNP small dog attitude nor will permit them to fool me into believing that Scotland is some backwater state of England.
Scotlans is much more than that and it is about time you realised that.
When you stop hating England, you will begin loving Scotland!
But you are a long way away from that.
387

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 21:37:50
437 more anti englsih racsim from meeja 1
388

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 21:38:14
imn english you doughball
389

Pink Sombrero,

26/07/2008 21:38:58
424. LOL

Indeed. what goes around etc
390

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26/07/2008 21:41:15
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karinxxx,

26/07/2008 21:41:40
aye havetn got an answer for that have you media 1.

because you have a perceptuon of the snp that isnt true.
392

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 21:42:39
r441

i cant beleive people still think that way.
393

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 21:43:02
thas so wrong
394

Media 1,

cape town 26/07/2008 21:48:45
Karin

Any perception I have about the SNP has been created for me BY the SNP!
In terms of racism against the English, PLEASE get a life. When the SNP crew visit their drinking holes to wathch their beloved Argentina take on England it is hardly racism. It is an inherent dislike of a nation they perceive as the tormentor, when in fact it is nothing of the sort.
So I would not say the SNP are racists, they are merely confused, out of their depth and unsure what Scotland is actually all about.
395

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 21:59:04
your only seeing what you wan to see media 1 i have never encountered any anti english feeling from anyone in the snp,.

labour supporters aye i have. being told im not a real member of the snp by them
396

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 22:03:00
When you stop hating England, you will begin loving Scotland!

you imply that the snp and its supporters hate england

how can i being english hate the country i was born in.

thats my point your trying to stir up a hatred that doesnt exist.
397

karinxxx,

26/07/2008 22:03:38
that last comment was to meeja 1
398

Iainbroch,

Moray 26/07/2008 22:05:28
re 445

Oi eejit

So is Andy Murray going to be a jock again tonight when he loses to Nadal - get a life - if I want to support Argentina I will d!!! well support Argentina or anybody else it pleases me to support.

I will not have the likes of you telling me what to do!You just dont get it do you!You Unionist Cyber Pimps dont do you?

I dont support anyboby against the English at Cwicket as I dont watch the game!

You are obviopusly not Scottish as you would understand that the Scots actually dislike those Sporting adversaries they respect the most!Except for Argentina that is!

If you were not such a stuff neck!Get a woman or whatever gets you off!Presumably not the hand of God - hee haw! Aye nae sense of humour either I see!

Get a life Cyber Pimp!
399

Eric D,

Renfrewshire 26/07/2008 22:05:38
The headline is accurate.These results prove that without a shadow of doubt the SNP have moved into the old Labour shoes. Scrape below the surface a little and this party is positively scary. This mix of pro EU , pro mass-immigration, welfareism, and big Government, anti Nuclear , ECO warriors should scare the hell out of any right minded and rational person.
400

Media 1,

cape town 26/07/2008 22:17:07
Col Bimpy

The difference between you and I is this. I dont see England as a bully and I hardly see Scotland as a victim. That sort of thinking is manifest in the minds of those who are inherently inclined to view England as a tormentor, when indeed England is nothing of the sort. England has been a friend to Scotland for hundreds of years and I for one am grateful that we have such a friendly and welcoming neighbour. They are also fortunate to have Scotland as a neighbour and together both countries share a tremendous relationship which must be supported and protected at all costs.
Scotland is not bullied, who would dare? Scotland is a powerful wee nation and we hold our own in a dynamic union that serves us well.
I dont expect you to see it my way, I only ask that you remember how amazing Scotland is and then recognise that the SNP had nothing to do with that success.
401

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 26/07/2008 22:21:54
Some people on here tonight could be aptly bracketed within an innocent statement made by someone in my company this afternoon. He was talking about his vision with regards to opticians.

I quote, " I cannae see right enough wi' ma left eye".
402

AM2,

Scotland,UK 27/07/2008 00:10:31
Pink Sombrero

More lies, I see. Go to www.google.com and enter this –

site:scotsman.com "Peter Baleares"

I get 619 results. This one is from January 2007: http://tinyurl.com/6zjztg

Are you imagining that I created a “Peter Baleares” user account and "groomed" it for 18 months, making hundreds of posts - mainly about sport - just so that I could wheel it out in defence of myself?

How many more such usernames do you think I have "in reserve" for similar circumstances? After all this time, do you imagine that I can't speak for myself?

You know what you're doing here. Why are you doing it?
403

,

27/07/2008 00:38:58
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John1,

Stirling 27/07/2008 00:40:40
"There was also the belief among many Labour loyalists that their party had become "arrogant" and needed to be given a sharp kick,"
The Tories had this problem in 1997, which is why so many Tories (including me) did not vote for them. They are improving but they are not there yet - after 11 years. It will take Labour longer than that to recover.
As for the referendum on Independence, do not forget the blatant gerrymandering that went on to get the 'right' result on the referendum on devolution. We can expect the same if an Independence referendum is held.
405

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27/07/2008 00:41:22
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The Pict.,

Canada 27/07/2008 00:43:07
AM2 motto:


Ye canny dae that. Ca canny. Please sur (tae the English) can ah gie mair? & ye'll no hud that against me.

Instructions: repeat twice before meals. Practice kneeling with bunnet removed.

Benefit: removal of guts and spine without surgery.

slainte'
407

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27/07/2008 10:09:02
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Daksar,

Perth Oz 27/07/2008 11:06:25
I thought the nursery rhyme went :
Andy Pandy, pudding and pie
Kissed the girls and made them cry
When the boys came out to play
He kissed them too!
He's funny that way :)
409

Tiredofdrivel ,

England 27/07/2008 12:09:42
Such a small Island and so much venom between the various races, the Scots want their oil, the English don’t want to fund the Scots. If the four races that make up the UK cannot live and work together then what chances does the EU have.
Anyway I have three solutions, the first one I like the most, that is all the English, Scots, people from NI and the Welsh who can work and live together, let them have a piece of the UK where they can get on with their lives and leave the rest to carry on with their arguments. I think that would be a very prosperous part of the UK.
The second is to find the central point of the UK and there build a new government building where all the politicians can work. Then build a wall around it and have it managed by men in white coats.
The third is to have revolving parliaments for the management of the UK, I don’t like this very much as it really does not get away from the current form of democratic dictatorship that exist.
410

Al17,

KILMARNOCK 27/07/2008 21:51:36
Media 1: are you still doon there in Cape Toon ranting an raving. You're aye guid fur a laugh right enough!
411

GM,

27/07/2008 22:56:45
AM2

"I will never post agin in these forums"

but he's back

"I will retire from this thread"

but he came back



more u-turns than Wendy Alexander!!!
412

lulach mac gille coemgain,

28/07/2008 00:37:31
Ain’t this Independence thing like CANCER to the unionist press associations - frightening ! - they seem to be under the impression if you don’t mention it - or talk only BAD of it - it just won’t happen !

But like cancer (but a good cancer) it grows stronger each day - the more that unionists live in denial of it the more support it garners in Scotland !

Denial won’t kill the growth or spread of change !

 

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