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'Certain defeat' in Glenrothes will undo any Brown bounce

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Published Date: 22 September 2008
SENIOR Labour sources last night cast the party's electoral chances in a dismal light, saying the Glenrothes by-election was already lost and warning that there was currently not a seat the government could hold anywhere in the country.
The bleak forecast came as Labour began its annual conference amid reports that its campaign for the crucial Fife poll was in turmoil after Frank Roy, the man expected to manage it, announced he was taking a holiday. A defeat at Glenrothes is likely to provoke an immediate challenge to Gordon Brown's leadership and would undo at a stroke any bounce the Prime Minister might take from either his handling of the financial crisis or a barnstorming performance at the conference in Manchester.

One source said he was sure Labour had already lost the Glenrothes by-election, caused by the death of the sitting MP, John MacDougall.

He said the absence of Mr Roy and David Cairns – the Scotland Office minister who had been co-ordinating the campaign until he was forced to resign last week after voicing concerns about the leadership – together with huge anti-Labour sentiment among voters, would make it difficult to win the seat.

He said voters were treating Labour with "contempt" on the doorstep, but he admitted this was because the party had "lost touch" with the common working man and woman. "Right now, there is not a seat we could hold in the country," said the source, who was closely involved in Labour's failed Glasgow East campaign.

Further pessimism about Labour's chances in Glenrothes came yesterday from one of the Prime Minister's closest allies.

Charlie Whelan, Mr Brown's spin doctor when he was chancellor, said telephone canvassing of Unite union members in the constituency showed a critical number were thinking of supporting the SNP.

He told a fringe meeting in Manchester that the union had spoken to its 4,000 members there and "currently the SNP are ahead".

Mr Roy, a government whip and the Motherwell and Wishaw MP, usually masterminds Labour's by-elections in Scotland and his decision to take a holiday in the United States has sparked rumours that he is frustrated with Mr Brown's leadership – a claim the party denies.

Another senior Scottish Labour figure told The Scotsman he believed Mr Roy's decision not to get involved in Glenrothes was in response to No 10's treatment of Mr Cairns. The pair, from the Blairite wing of the party, were known to be close. During the Glasgow East campaign, Mr Cairns fronted Labour's media operation, while Mr Roy, a trade unionist with 30 years' experience of Scottish politics, ran the behind-the-scenes operation.

Gordon Banks, the Ochil and South Perthshire MP who has been left running the campaign, insisted he did not feel under pressure to save Mr Brown's job.

"The election is there to be won. I know there is a lot of media speculation about the consequences, but we have got a job to focus on," he said.

The latest warnings come after polls yesterday predicted defeat for Labour at the next General Election.

Mr Brown yesterday admitted he had made mistakes as Prime Minister and promised: "I will do better." But his pledge failed to convince his most vocal party critic, the former home secretary Charles Clarke, who said he did not believe the Labour leader was capable of improving his performance and called on him to quit.

In an interview two days ahead of the crucial conference speech on which his future may depend, Mr Brown insisted he remained the right man to shepherd Britain's economy through the global financial turmoil.

He dismissed suggestions he might be out of No 10 by Christmas and insisted he would not "bail out". Far from plotting against him, his Cabinet were "pretty united", he said.

However, the Prime Minister's efforts to use the five-day Manchester gathering to shore up his position and launch a Labour fightback were undermined by a massive poll of marginal seats which predicted a landslide victory for the Tories in the next election.

The research by PoliticsHome.com, involving almost 35,000 voters across 238 marginals, projected a 146-seat majority for the Tories, with more than half of Labour MPs – including Cabinet members Jack Straw and Jacqui Smith – losing their seats. And a Sunday Times survey suggested 60 per cent of Labour supporters expect Mr Brown to lead them to general election defeat.

But another poll, for the Independent on Sunday, made more palatable reading for the PM. In it, the Tory lead had been slashed by nine points, mostly to the benefit of Lib Dems.

Senior ministers are believed to be considering a move against Mr Brown if he loses Glenrothes. The Prime Minister is to fly to the US on Wednesday and is expected to campaign in the constituency on his return later this week.

Mr Brown is going to New York to try to convince world leaders at the UN to sign up to regulations for the financial markets that he introduced in the UK last week as a result of the HBOS fall-out.

A delegation of ministers, possibly led by Mr Straw, is set to tell Mr Brown to stand down if the seat is lost.


Analysis: Labour stumbles into another by-election crisis

Prescott says 'bitter' Clarke is damaging the party

Scottish leader says only his party is a 'force for fairness' at Holyrood

QUOTE OF THE DAY

"I am a pretty ordinary guy who managed through an ordinary school to get to university and then I was in a position to do the things I've been able to do"

Prime Minister Gordon Brown, sounding suspiciously like his predecessor Tony Blair's famous "I'm a pretty straight kind of guy" speech.

IN THE CORRIDORS

Would Gordon Brown approve of the latest Labour party attempts to raise funds? In exchange for £15, supporters are offered a free credit card. Hardly whats needed when there is a global credit crunch.

• Douglas Alexander has told how in 1988, he headed over to America to help the Democrats. When he arrived, Michael Dukakis had a 14 point lead. "In a matter of days I'd turned that into a victory for George Bush."

BEST BIT OF GOSSIP

Charlie Whelan unwittingly revealed his speech notes – and his pessimism – at a Unite fringe meeting.

Those sitting near the front of the audience were treated to a clear view of his jottings.

After telling the audience the news that the SNP would win Glenrothes based on current phone canvassing, he was meant to go on to say: "But just as we fight to win the general election, we won't give up in Glenrothes." This rallying cry was visibly struck out on his speechnotes having been excised in the final cut.

Perhaps he thought he wouldn't get many takers for the coming battle?

REBEL OF THE DAY

Jon Cruddas


Tipped as a future left-wing contender, Cruddas wants a 45p top rate of income tax, a policy plan hardly guaranteed to endear him to his glorious leader and certain to frighten the voting horses.

BIGGEST SMILE

John Prescott


The former deputy leader was seen beaming while fixing Labour support stickers to women delegates' chests.

GLUMMEST FACE

Des Browne


Latest polls predict the Scottish and Defence Secretary could lose his seat in Kilmarnock and Loudoun at the next general election.


Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 22 September 2008 1:31 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Labour Party
 
1

Charles Linskaill,

Patron Saint Charles 22/09/2008 00:05:35


That picture of Broon, makes him look like a,..

'Stuck-up-Snob'

If he asks for 'forgiveness' I will see what I can do for him.
2

Fifi la Bonbon,

22/09/2008 00:12:08
Charles, the picture will have been chosen by the picture editor to give that very impression. Are you really that easily influenced by what catches your eye?
3

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 22/09/2008 00:15:08


Fifi la Bonbon ~2,

"Are you really that easily influenced by what catches your eye?"

If its 'Babes',...YES!

If its 'Broon',...NO!

:)
4

Resolutions,

22/09/2008 00:23:49
For goodness sake get on with this by-election!
5

Thane of Kirkcaldy,

Dancing in the Streets of Raith 22/09/2008 00:25:03
I look forward to the by election in the Lang Toun following SNP victory by a landslide in Glenrothes.
6

,

22/09/2008 00:33:30
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
7

candysticks,

22/09/2008 00:46:40
When is the Motherwell and Wishaw by election? Isn't Jack due to hang up his coat some time soon? That seat is also likely to go to SNP despite being a Labour stronghold for however many years.
8

Ronald Penman,

Glasgow 22/09/2008 01:04:26
"Mr Roy ..... MASTERMINDS....... "

Is the hootsmon having a laugh , or what ? Seems to

me that there are indeed

precious few "masterminds in HER BRITANIC MAJESTYS NEW

LABOUR PARTY.
9

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 22/09/2008 01:12:36

I don't see "Broons" nose getting any larger, perhaps he is not 'Pinocchio' afterall! :)
10

subrosa,

22/09/2008 01:12:48
' Douglas Alexander has told how in 1988, he headed over to America to help the Democrats. When he arrived, Michael Dukakis had a 14 point lead. "In a matter of days I'd turned that into a victory for George Bush."'

So that's when he learned how to fiddles elections. What a prat.

11

subrosa,

22/09/2008 01:13:18
ooops fiddle not fiddles :-)
12

Guga II,

Rockall 22/09/2008 01:39:55
When Maggie Broon contacts the removalists, he'd better get in touch with some English ones. They will willingly move him back to Kircaldy for nothing. The Scottish ones would probably refuse to move him anywhere north of the border. Or we could all club together and export him to America.


13

Guga II,

Rockall 22/09/2008 02:26:21
#25.

Best option for what? Quisling of the year, or Quisling of the decade?
14

A Better Way,

Scottish Republic 22/09/2008 03:38:35
bring em on,

Your very quiet today. Could it be that you numpties are gone and your now facing the idea that its time to come over to the bright side.

WELL FORGET IT,WE DONT WANT YOU OR NEED YOU> YOU ARE AN EMBARASSMENT TO ALL SCOTS. YOUR TYPE BETRAY YOUR HERITAGE AND THE MANY MILLIONS OF SCOTS WHO SUFFER FROM THE FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS TO LIVE A MEANING FULL AND REWARDING LIFE> BUT DONT WORRY ABOUT IT, BECAUSE WE WILL FIX THINGS UP, AND GIVE THE SCOTTISH NATION A BETTER FUTURE FULL OF HOPE AND A SENSE OF BEING AS IMPORTANT AS ANY OTHER PERSON WHO LIVE IN THEIR OWN DEMOCRATIC INDEPENDANT COUNTRY.
15

Ursus arctos horribilis,

22/09/2008 03:42:33
Brown is undoubtedly the worst PM since that bloke who came back from meeting Hitler waving a piece of paper.

Liebour and Brown are heading for complete annihilation-north and south of the border-and not before time. How anyone who does not have their snout in the trough can still support this mob beggars belief.

16

W Smith,

Middle East 22/09/2008 04:16:29
#30
"Brown is a man you can trust".

With what exactly? Tax payers money?

When Arts and Social Science graduates control the nation's finances, be afraid - BE VERY AFRAID!
17

Guga II,

Rockall 22/09/2008 05:27:38
#30.

"Brown is a man you can trust."

Trust with what? People's pension funds? Or trust in his ability to raise even more direct, indirect and stealth taxes to rob the people blind?

Time you handed back your membership card for the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party.
18

james 1st,

hamilton nz 22/09/2008 05:36:49
one must feel a little sympathy for gordon brown, he doesnt only have the other political parties to contend with he still has the morons who supported tony blais sabotaging the labour party every way that they can, it is unfortunatr for him that he cant just simply expel them.
i suppose that i shouldnt be grumpy about that as i believe that scotland needs independence to thrive.
the united kingdom government seems unable to come up with policies to help scotland nor the other regions, including vast areas of england, if its not to promote the south easty of england then it cant be government policy
19

james 1st,

hamilton nz 22/09/2008 05:40:55
#32 guga
all goverments everywhere are raising finances any way they can and robbing people blind, poor old gordon is not the only one, dont mind you critisising him but in this area he is only doing what everyone else does, including any likely replacement
20

Statsman,

Edinburgh 22/09/2008 05:59:28
Daily Mail says there will be a 5p tax rise by Brown http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1059162/Brown-bankrupt-Britain-Taxpayers-face-rises-5p-pound-plug-toxic-debt-black-hole.html
21

Pilrig,

Livingston 22/09/2008 06:15:17
Frank Roy has a habit of putting number 1 first. A few years back there was a ceremony planned at Carfin to commemorate the Irish famine and Bertie Ahern was invited to the occasion. But the organisers ommitted to invite the local MP - Frank Roy.
So Frank, in high dudgeon, came up with a nonsensical claim that the commemoration would be invaded by Rangers supporters, (the Old Firm were playing earlier that day). His suggestion was widely ridiculed but it was enough to postpone the occasion.
22

TommyKaye,

UK 22/09/2008 06:26:01
There is only one comparison I can make with that photograph he looks like Nero enough said.

All we all know he has fiddled and fiddled
23

1745,

Edinburgh 22/09/2008 07:24:14
The Glenrothes by-election will be held on the 6 November 2008.
24

,

22/09/2008 07:30:14
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
25

Prester John,

Pots_n_Pans 22/09/2008 07:32:29
Brown's NuLab Inc. - the party that stole your old age and stealth-taxed the economy so much that it's been teetering on the brink of recession for a while and won't recover easily now that we are sliding into a full-scale recession. It's only a matter of time until the IMF comes in to force cuts in spending, and tax cuts with reduced borrowing.

A man to trust ? This is the man who can't give a straight answer to questions in interviews. This is the man who sold gold at the lowest price imaginable, who keeps redefining when the economic cycles start and finish so he can meet his golden rules, who refused to put money away during the good years, who threw money into public services without ensuring we were getting value for money.

An ordinary guy from an ordinary school ? Notionally, Kirkcaldy High was an ordinary school but it was a school with a seriously large number of able pupils and a reputation close to schools in the private sector at the time, enabling Gordon Brown and others of that ilk to be given an intensive, fast-tracked education and an early entry to university. Dr Gordon Brown is it not ? (A PhD in some aspect of Labour Party history I believe) - now why does he play that down ?
26

LEAL,

22/09/2008 07:34:14
38 rules
I think the forthcoming vote in Glenrothes will be a vote against London rule,rather than against the Labour party in particular.I also think the positive government the SNP have given us since May 07 will encourage people to vote for SNP,rather than against anything else.
27

Boy Wonder,

22/09/2008 07:38:31
I have met many "sons of the manse" ... in my life and career ... and NONE of them could be remotely described as "ordinary kinds of guys"!

Gordon is going lower and lower in my estimation. Not as low as smug n smarmy Cameron ... but not far off it!
28

Prester John,

Pots_n_Pans 22/09/2008 07:38:50
They can give his marching orders if they like but it's NuLab Inc. that's the problem. Fire Gordon Brown or keep him, they're still goose-stepping towards a couple of decades of political oblivion.

Hopefully they'll learn that the economies which do best and produce the best tax revenues are low-tax economies, the closer to a flat rate the better. However, in the meantime we can look forward to taxation being increased still further to cope with toxic debt.
29

Prester John,

Pots_n_Pans 22/09/2008 07:46:01
Under a man to be trusted ? I should, of course, have mentioned the referendum on the European Treaty promised in the manifesto but not delivered.

Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind
If conditions continue to worsen as they seem to be doing, I can see many voters abandoning the traditional parties for a variety of reasons. Treating the electorate with contempt is a recipe for the re-emergence of far right parties. The BNP seems to be on an increasing roll just now.

Also, if this financial situation continues I can see the euro collapsing. If that does we will see the one good thing that Gordon Brown did i.e. not joining the euro.
30

conservative,

Fife 22/09/2008 08:15:04
Unfortunately the inhabitants of Glenrothes would vote for a red sock as long as it continued to dole out their beer and fag money so Labour might be able to buy their way back in. Most people there still believe that Henry McThief was an honest man.
31

muppetfinder,

22/09/2008 08:20:13
the real concern is that Osborne didn't have a clue on newsnight over HBOS are we replacing labour muppets with Tory muppets seems like SNP is the only sensible party
32

Montford's Jaicket,

Hanging around 22/09/2008 08:33:40
#41 - I wonder; when David Marshall stood down, following the advice of 2 doctors, as MP for Glasgow East - could those two doctors have been Dr Gordon Brown and Dr John Reid...
33

donald,

glasgow 22/09/2008 08:42:43
Labour will lose Glenrothes and Broon will refuse to give up his pay check until he is kicked out.
34

Stop buy Scotsman,

22/09/2008 09:15:45
Whhaaattt The Scotsman has printed this headline 'Certain defeat' in Glenrothes will undo any Brown bounce.

To mark this special occassion I will buy The Scotsman newspaper today.

If you keep up good work I may start buying your papers.
35

Red Tower,

Dunoon 22/09/2008 09:37:07
And there was me thinking that Alex Salmond could walk on water. But I was wrong. Now it appears that Sir George Mathewson, his chief economics adviser falls under the category that he, Salmond, decries as "spivs and speculators".
36

weh,

22/09/2008 09:50:38
one must feel a little sympathy for gordon brown"

James-I feel more sympathy for Adolf Hitler than this quisling!
37

Monsmeg,

Fife 22/09/2008 10:03:12
Brown could never be described as pretty or ordinary and, as a former pupil of Kirkcaldy High School in the same era, our school was far from being ordinary. In fact I can hear our rector at that time, Robert Adam, turning in his grave at this comment!
Be careful, Gordon, your list of opponents is growing by the hour!
38

Calum10,

22/09/2008 10:04:17
Quote: "telephone canvassing of Unite union members in the constituency showed a critical number were thinking of supporting the SNP."

Not only are the Labour leadership out of touch with the voters, so are the Union leadership with it's own trade union members.

The Labour movement in the UK has become completely disconnected from everyday reality.

Labour ministers and Trade Union leaders see great days ahead; the public only see unemployment, debt, rises in tax, energy, fuel, food, rent, mortgages and poverty in all it's forms.

The good people of Glenrothes should give Gordon Brown a bloody nose for leaving them to face the brunt of Labour's economic failure.
39

Darien,

Panama 22/09/2008 10:11:02
#38: Right about Broon, he is now intensely disliked by most people throughout the UK. Wrong about SNP - who are on course to win more seats in Scotland at the next/final UK General Election than any of the British 'Nation' (Scotland is a region) parties.

#48: Are you sure Broon has a PhD? If he has, I don't expect it will be to do with the study of financial markets. Irrespective, he is a disgrace (illegal war, pensions, poverty, economic collapse, HBOS, Trident, virulent anti-Scots, rabid fundamentalist Brit-Nat, plotter/schemer, etc). He is loathed by his country folk (i.e. in Scotland?. He should quickly disappear and hopefully he will.
40

Monsmeg,

Fife 22/09/2008 10:12:26
#39
Do you know something the rest of us don't? As far as I am aware no date has been confirmed for the by election yet
41

A Better Way,

Scottish Republic 22/09/2008 10:12:32
#Rules, Perhaps you are a bit behind the times, but if you follow the recent poll of thirty odd thousand people from the three nations, you might stop stating nonsense. The SNP dont need any help from anyone from other parties. It appears that the SNP will be taking 36 seats at the next election, which according to my calculations gives the Real Scottish Party above the 50% mark needed to call in the UN and the European Commision.

I certainly wish all non Westminster Controlled Politician all the best in their new country. London is what they have always yearned for, so its tatty bye for them. Every other Scot of any political persuasion, or ethnic kind are very very welcome to become Scottish Citizens. Every English Person who have migrated to Scotland at a rate of 6000 per annum over the last decade will be welcomed with open arms. A far better Scotland for all will be their reward.

Our SNP will have disbanded and will choose to form the various political parties, more closely tied to their own beliefs. Every Scot will have a Constitution returned to them after 300 years of foreign control. No more Parliaments which believe they are better than the people, or have some sort of god given right to decide things that are not acceptable to the Sovereign People. Thats exactly how the Irish got to vote against the Lisbon Treaty. Celts believe in the power of their own kind, not jumped up Westmonster wannabes like New Labour, LibDums or effing Tories.
42

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 22/09/2008 10:16:13
If Brown is the right man to sort out the global economic situation, then let him apply for the top job at the IMF.

As a UK PM, he is hopeless, both in content as well as presentation.

He has betrayed his own country of birth by trying to appease those who peddle mild racism against his own nationality.

He has become so consumed by the bigger picture that he has lost all sense of his own roots. He sneaked into Fife recently just to say he had been there, but seems to be afraid to walk the streets engaging fellow Fifers.

No doubt Cameron will have a hugely successful Tory party conference, and hammer Brown down the ratings even further. I don't know if that makes me happy or sad, just kind of numb.

Thank goodness Scotland has a leader in Salmond who is in touch with the people of this great country. Albeit with limited powers. For now.
43

sceptic,

22/09/2008 10:18:07
27 bring them on,
"Best leader available"

My God! We're all doomed.
44

A Better Way,

Scottish Republic 22/09/2008 10:24:26
The Westmonster Treasury reckon that without anymore spending the borrowings will rise above 100 billion quid by 2009/10.

Brown cant even afford the latest promises, becaue basically the three nations are broke. It might not be as big as the US, but at least they have a government that promotes business investment. Everything else from that country generally stinks. Just look at Bush, the puppet who has to wear an earpiece when he is let out to play. His puppetmasters have to tell him what to answer the journo, because he is as thick as pig sheite. Of course they now are thinking about voting for a 72 years old right wing nutter who will cack it the next time he has a bit of nooky, only to leave the world with Sara poison Palin who has left her old town in millions of debt.
45

tommy M,

22/09/2008 10:34:35
"Going on holiday?" erm, priorities?
46

Ronald Penman,

Glasgow 22/09/2008 11:13:31
Dispatches : Let Down By Labour . 8pm Channel 4 .

"Tonight's expose discovers a nation rife with child poverty and , at the other sprectrum , pensioners afraid they won't be able to pay their gas bills this winter . Its clear that something has gone terribly wrong."

Yeh,like letting the NEW LABOUR animals into power in the first place . Enjoy !
47

Bzzzz,

Edinburgh 22/09/2008 11:22:36
True and Scotland has been the same for many decades, it was even recognised in the 70s in the McCrone report and yet noting was done about it, it's not just been labour it seems to have been Westminsters common policy. It's time WE, Scotland as a nation changed that and started looking after ourselves, our own people, our own resources and our own affairs! dignity is priceless ffs! get these traitors voted out and lets get on with giving Scotland back to its people!
48

danbob,

22/09/2008 11:37:37
The SNP is the protest vote of the moment in Scotland. Just the same as the woolley dems are in England. Like the spook said in post 6# they will probably win a scottish majority in the next general election, and then will come reality. Because they will have to convince the scots that independance is in their interest. The present polls suggest that only 34% want this. This is a huge gap to bridge between a protest vote and an independent Scotland. Last weeks HBOS fiasco has rammed it home to a lot of folk just how vulnerable a nation of 4.5 million will be in a crises.
49

Prester John,

Pots_n_Pans 22/09/2008 11:50:58
From an article in the Guardian :

"But more significant is the fact that he was associated with the history department at Edinburgh for 15 years - from matriculation in 1967, through the award of his honours degree, to the completion of his PhD in 1982.

Although, democratic intellectual that he is, Brown disdains the title (along with black tie and other ceremonial flummery), he is the first British prime minister to have earned a doctorate."

So Gordon Brown does have a Ph D
50

Bzzzz,

Edinburgh 22/09/2008 11:59:15
SHows how vulenerable?

What about the USA?
51

Darien,

Panama 22/09/2008 12:07:42
#62: "So Gordon Brown does have a Ph D"

Phew, and here's me thinking he was just a muppet!

It disnae matter a pigs ear if he wis Einstein, he and his kind are heading for political oblivion very very soon.
52

Brian Hill,

22/09/2008 12:12:50
#59 Ronald Penman: Dispatches : Let Down By Labour . 8pm Channel 4 .

Another useful post from you Ronald, unfortunately ruined by use of the word 'animals' though it's marginally better than your other favoured word 'scum' which appears all too frequently.

May I remind you there are hundreds if not thousands of neutrals who read these columns. Words like scum and animal may be gris for the mill in the Sun, but to Scotsman readers and in particular those neutrals it's far more likely to put them off voting SNP.

If you are really a nationalist you and others like you will drop such low level emotive words from your post. Think about it Ronald.
53

Darien,

Panama 22/09/2008 12:15:57
#59: ""Tonight's expose discovers a nation rife with child poverty". (Dispatches : Let Down By Labour . 8pm Channel 4 .)

Don't tell Ms Rowling, she'll want her cheque back!

#63: With a PhD in history, you'd have thought Broon might have kent a bit more about the history of Scotland. Maybe he got the PhD for his publications on the history of the Labour Party. How apt - it soon will be history. Broon was certainly well qualified, indeed he was! Have to agree with you there.
54

Noxious,

22/09/2008 12:19:16
"He dismissed suggestions he might be out of No 10 by Christmas and insisted he would not "bail out". Far from plotting against him, his Cabinet were "pretty united", he said."

Interesting choice of words - the cabinet are "pretty united" - not totally united, or completely united, which is what you'd expect to hear (even if it isn't true). Sounds "pretty" feeble to me!
55

Red Tower,

Dunoon 22/09/2008 12:24:54
# 68
You are absolutely right. This type of language use might cause a warm glow of the stomachs of some SNP supporters but it is likely to put off neutrals who might be persuaded to support the party. And the SNP need to attract as many neutrals as possible.

Folk who use this type of language are a liability for the SNP.
56

Mack1,

Carlisle 22/09/2008 12:42:02
With a bit of luck the next general election should result in a melt-down for Labour on both sides of the Border. We can then look forward to a scenario where the SNP finally persuade Scots to stand on their own two feet, grasp the nettle, and vote for independence.

England can then pursue policies determined by a government of politicians who live within its boundaries and will be accountable to voters for the policies they enact. No doubt Messrs Brown, Browne, Darling, Alexander et al will find gainful employment in one of the many Scottish Quangos they have created.
57

Ianfraefife,

Leven 22/09/2008 12:44:57
Just exactly when is this election going to be called?
The last constituency that lost an MP through ill health had its election within about 3 weeks. Surely Glenrothes [and the forgotten area of Levenmouth] deserves at least the same.

Well said Brian Hill.
58

Number 6,

Germany 22/09/2008 12:59:44
Just brilliant !. What a complete bunch of pompous dolts. At least some of them are realising their time at the trough is almost up. As for Brown the man's a
pathetic laughing stock.

Roll on the Glenrothes by election. Anything to wipe that stupid smirk off Brown's ugly face.
59

Active Sassenach,

Luton, England 22/09/2008 13:00:08
Gordon Brown was a fool in his Andrew Marr interview on 21.09.08 to refer to his roots at Kircaldy High School to make out he was an ordinary boy made good. His father was a vicar with a good line to the Bishop and Scottish establishment to smooth him into Edinburgh University. Anyone else as bright as Gordon Brown without that might not have ever surfaced.

Regrettably he has now put Kircaldy High, a failing school in special measures, into play by mentioning it. What has he done? He has a drawn a parallel for Kircaldy High with his own over-ripeness on the vine. He has lifted the skills required to fix it for the thankless task of getting a kicking from the SNP at Glenrothes. In the same way, he has tried to blame everyone else in the world for preventing him from regulating financial services.

We are in the season of pourriture noble from which fine wine can be made. But in Brown's case it is pourriture ignoble which usually results in vinegar.

Can Brown fix it? No he can't. Stop digging Gordon.
60

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

22/09/2008 13:05:53
If Labour had the only candidate in Glenrothes they would lose - that's how dire the situation is for Brown.
61

,

22/09/2008 13:12:06
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
62

Prester John,

Pots_n_Pans 22/09/2008 13:29:14
#77
That is exactly a major part of the problem overall. The good doctor confuses being a public servant with running people's lives and trying to impose his values and beliefs on to the people whilst penalising the 'middle classes' (whom he obviously abhors) financially. This is true of too many politicians / public servants. They were elected and employed to represent the people not rule them !
63

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 22/09/2008 13:46:20
"'Certain defeat' in Glenrothes will undo any Brown bounce"

Since when did sh^t bounce?
64

Scotfree,

Erskine 22/09/2008 13:47:13
#63,67,69
Gordon Brown, war criminal and master fraudster is, as always, economic (sic) with the truth.
Gordon Brown (to paraphrase his own recent speech to the Knesset - http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0807/S00632.htm) is the son of one of Scotland’s leading Zionist, so hardly an ordinary family.
He was selected to attend a hotbed grammar school at 12 (having gained the privilege himself, he thereafter made every effort to deny it to others) and attended university at 16, despite which he graduated at the same age as his peers.
History teacher, Gordon Brown, PhD was titled "The history of the labour party 1918-1929" (a work that took him ten years, full time, one year less than the events involved and the same time it took him to ruin the British Economy and the labour party). He will soon have time enough to write a postscript thereon "The labour party, my part in its downfall
65

Brian Hill,

22/09/2008 13:47:30
#76 The Federalist: "If Labour had the only candidate in Glenrothes they would lose - that's how dire the situation is for Brown."

Hilarious. I noticed yesterday that a Sunday Express poll was predicting an SNP landslide in Glenrothes. The poll showed the SNP on 29% with Labour around 16%.

Whereas we can't take one poll and announce the winner, the overall message from canvass returns, pundits and national polls point to a heavy SNP win. But frankly, 1 vote would do for me.
66

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 22/09/2008 13:48:58
"Gordon Banks, the Ochil and South Perthshire MP who has been left running the campaign, insisted he did not feel under pressure to save Mr Brown's job."

Gordon Banks = a safe pair of hands ;-)
67

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 22/09/2008 13:50:50
Has anyone been in Glenrothes recently. Is it true that Labour are virtually invisible in the campaign?
68

,

22/09/2008 13:51:42
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
69

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 22/09/2008 13:54:24
Damning stuff about Brown from his own side:

"Mr Brown yesterday admitted he had made mistakes as Prime Minister and promised: "I will do better." But his pledge failed to convince his most vocal party critic, the former home secretary Charles Clarke, who said he did not believe the Labour leader was capable of improving his performance and called on him to quit"

Worth repeating:

"he did NOT believe the Labour leader WAS CAPABLE of improving."

It must be bad for Clarke to go public on this and with such vituperative language to boot !
70

lulach mac gille coemgain,

22/09/2008 14:01:17
Is Gordon Broon still leader ?

Sorry . . . I’ve been sleeping for 2 minutes .
71

Prester John,

Pots_n_Pans 22/09/2008 14:24:02
Of course when you look at the dates for the good doctor's education, you'd have to conclude he can't have been that much of a high-flyer or else he'd have been about 23 by the time he finished his doctorate.

I don't think we should assume that possessing a doctorate or even a degree in most subjects necessarily means there's a commensurate intellect.

Much of his supposed success as a Chancellor of the Exchequer was predicated upon the good work done by his (Tory) predecessor who left him a good solid economy which he then proceeded to squander and bleed the life from with ill-judged 'investment' and other manifestly poor decisions.
72

ThomasP,

22/09/2008 14:39:09
#84.

How could Scotland survive outside the European Union?
73

ThomasP,

22/09/2008 14:46:08
#84.

You have pointed out on several occasions that Britain buys more from Europe then they do from us.

How can Britain survive when we loose our Free Trade privilages?
74

Prester John,

Pots_n_Pans 22/09/2008 14:52:23
#89
Quite easily as it happens. If Norway can manage, then Scotland could My position remains what it has always been. Scotland could go it alone although, given the quality of the numptocracy, I seriously doubt whether it would truly flourish. For my part, I am more than happy to remain part of the United Kingdom where I can reconcile my Scottishness with my Britishness.
75

Yeah1,

22/09/2008 14:56:50
#84

"UKIP is certain to make gains in Glenrothes and Scotland as a whole. I wouldn't be surprised if UKIP came a close 2nd or 3rd in the polls."

Don't embarass yourself with ridiculous statements.

UKIP will get nowhere near 2nd or 3rd place, they will be lucky to get a few hundred votes.

UKIP are an insignificant and irrelevant party, on a par in electoral terms with other 'joke' parties like the monster raving loonies.
76

Nevsky,

Moscow 22/09/2008 15:00:39
92 Yeah#

and the Labour Party
77

Yeah1,

22/09/2008 15:03:48
#88

"Of course when you look at the dates for the good doctor's education, you'd have to conclude he can't have been that much of a high-flyer or else he'd have been about 23 by the time he finished his doctorate."

Erm...do you realise how long a PHD actually takes to complete? No one finishes a PHD by the age of 23 - its usually a 4 to 5 year process after finishing an undergraduate degree.

He completed his honours degree in 1972 and then presumably did the PHD part-time over the next 10 years (considering he was working in various jobs during that time period).
78

Prester John,

Pots_n_Pans 22/09/2008 15:08:03
The rise of the anti-European parties is slow but could snowball quite easily. The main parties are not listening, neither are they addressing the concerns of large sections of the public. It is quite possible we could see a strong wave of right-wing nationalism sweeping across Europe. It has never been that far away in all truth.

If the main parties do not get to grips with these issues then the main beneficiaries will be UKIP and BNP and their equivalents across Europe.
79

Cpt Incredible,

Edinburgh 22/09/2008 15:08:24
How anyone can vote for these snouts in the trough,anti Scottish,corrupt war criminals is absolutely beyond my comprehension.
80

Prester John,

Pots_n_Pans 22/09/2008 15:11:22
#94
As it happens. I do. All of my friends managed to complete their PhDs in 3 years apart from one who did his in 5 years part-time.

Remember, the good doctor did not go to university at 18 but two years earlier as part of the fast-tracking he was fortunate to get.
81

Yeah1,

22/09/2008 15:15:05
#81

"Hilarious. I noticed yesterday that a Sunday Express poll was predicting an SNP landslide in Glenrothes. The poll showed the SNP on 29% with Labour around 16%."

I think you must have got your percentages wrong - 29% and 16% respectively is very low - that means other parties would receive 45% of the vote which is far too high a percentage.

Clearly you have either misread or misinterpreted the poll you saw - the poll I noticed in the Guardian had labour and the SNP neck-and-neck on 43% each.
82

Prester John,

Pots_n_Pans 22/09/2008 15:17:58
You'd have to ask how such a supposed intellectual could go to university two years earlier than his peers and yet only manage to graduate in the same year as they did once they'd completed their courses.

A genuine high-flyer in those circumstances would have graduated with Honours at 20 and then completed his PHD in the 3 years than many post-grads do, hence the reference to 23 or so.
83

Doh,

22/09/2008 15:30:48
#98

Noe he is quoting the poll correctly.

SNP 29%
Labour 16%
UNDECIDED 34%

That leaves 21% for the parties which doesnt seem unreasonable. They havent bothered to break it down
probably becuase it shows the Tories in a bad fourth.
had they been doing well you can be sure the Express would have saif - it is called biased editorialism.
84

izzie,

dundee 22/09/2008 15:32:21
#98 is this 43% neck and neck poll meant to be good news for Labour. Incidentally I have been in the constituancy and get the feeling people are ashamed to say they vote Labour.
85

Darien,

Panama 22/09/2008 15:48:05
#80: Thanks for clarification - it was just a guess of mine that his PhD was to do with the Labour Party, but not a bad one after all.

#87: "Before screaming for Brown’s head think of the alternatives. At least Gordon the leper can identify with Scotland..."
No he can't identify with Scotland - he denies that the Scots nation even exists such is his British national fundamentalism. Broon is reminiscent of John Major, and like Major he still thinks of 'Britain' in a 1950's context of 'warm beer, old maids on bycycles, cricket, and empire'. That is how out of touch he is. Personally I would be very happy with Alex Salmond as Prime Minister of the Government in Scotland. He has already proved he puts Scotland first. Broon puts Britain first, Britain second, and Britain third. Scotland is a nonentity to Broon, but soon Broon will be a nonentity to Scotland.

#91: " I am more than happy to remain part of the United Kingdom where I can reconcile my Scottishness with my Britishness."
And which of your dual nationalities takes precedence I wonder? That is the key to nationality. You're British pal, and that's your hard luck because Britain aint a nation, its a state (for a wee while longer).

#97: "All of my friends managed to complete their PhDs in 3 years..."
You must keep awfully good company if all your friends have doctorates!
86

morris,

edinburgh 22/09/2008 16:02:31
101

I think they realise that they would look pretty stupid voting Labour when the rest of Scotland has washed their hands of them.I hope they have realised anyway.If not Labour will hail it as a fightback, but most Scots will just hail Glenrothes as too much in breeding!
If Labour cannot hold Glasgow East then they eventually cannot hold any seat in Scotland, and we already know they are washed up permanently in England.
Voting Labour when they cannot possibly survive a General Election because England has totally rejected them, means they are unelectable arithmetically, and any Scot who votes for Labour tells his neighbours he cant do primary arithmetic.
Its bad enough when everybody thinks you are the village idiot,but surely they do not want to advertise the fact.
87

Kenny Boy,

22/09/2008 16:14:37
The person I feel sorry for in all this mess is the labour candidate Lindsay Roy. I have known him for years and he is an excellent headteacher with real down to earth values - hence his successful career. He would make a good MP but I can't see him getting it on the back of the present attitudes towards Labour.
88

Doh,

22/09/2008 16:29:34
#104

What down to earth values -
invading Iraq to increase international tension
proposing a 10p tax rise on the poorest
and locking up innocent people for 42 days

Which earth, which planet. Maybe he shouldnt be standing as the Labour candidate until Labour change their attitude to people.
89

Darien,

22/09/2008 16:32:32
#104: "The person I feel sorry for in all this mess is the labour candidate Lindsay Roy."
Afraid anyone daft enough to stand for NewLab really needs to question their sanity. The same goes for anyone inclined to vote for NewLab.

#104: "He would make a good MP.."
The only good MP at the next/last UK General Election will be a Scottish Nationalist MP.

#104: ".he is an excellent headteacher with real down to earth values".
Its a pity he does not believe his ain country folk are capable of governing themselves.
90

Truely English,

22/09/2008 16:35:48
I understand that more than 80% of people in Scotland vote for British Parties, which shows that when it comes to any referendum Britain will remain United with the Monarchy as our Head of State.

91

morris,

edinburgh 22/09/2008 16:36:35
104

It is not the present attitudes toward Labour, which need to change , but the "we can asset strip Scotland and do what the blazes we like" attitude demonstrated by Labour!

They were rightly or wrongly elected to represent their respective constituencies and there is no doubt that Bean and Darling have known what was going on with HBOS for weeks .They have had meetings with Lloyds most senior staff,and watched as events unfolded.That has been established beyond doubt.Its been reported in a number of the English papers andbeen mentioned a few times on TV.
Anybody who stabs their electorate in the back deserves the chop, and anybody who still votes for them deserves everything they get.

Labour are not fit for purpose and Bean has stated that there is NO LENGTH that he will go to to keep Scotland in the UK, and we have just witnessed an example of what he is prepared to do. LABOUR need a good kicking and if Scotland and Glenrothes in particular return this party of quislings then they will be a national laughing stock.
It has been claimed for many years that some seats would elect a monkey wearing a red rosette.
Lindsay Roy may be a thoroughly decent chap, and certianly not a monkey, but he will rightly be humiliated because he represents an anti Scottish party and quite honestly should know better.
92

Truely English,

22/09/2008 16:41:45
It must give lots of people in Scotland a great feeling of achievement when they listen to the way Alasdair Darling now speaks compared to when he first entered the House of Commons. We can all understand what he says with ease.
93

morris,

edinburgh 22/09/2008 16:44:11
108

I understand that a referendum is a measure of a given subject on a given day,where as any vote in a FTTP election can mean anything but as a general rule we support the majority of policies offered in the package deal.
The level of support has never been measured as in unequivocal, and you can no more tell us what we think than we can ourselves.
I understand that British parties got the bums rush in Glasgow East and every election in Scotland for a few years now shows a growing gap between SNP and the also rans.
You may be truly English but you are also truly funny!
94

morris,

edinburgh 22/09/2008 16:45:24
110

He was born in London. Cant you understand London accents then?
95

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 22/09/2008 17:05:12
Ehud Olmert could fill the vacany left by Brown after the election he has all the right qualifications and experiance with sleaze and corruption.
96

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 22/09/2008 17:08:10
110

Aye i heard they removed the bottom half of his tongue so it just balances inside his mouth and flaps around when he moves his lips.
Its held in place by the silver spoon welded beneath it.
97

brownlie,

22/09/2008 17:10:32
110 Truely English

Truly, my grand-dad has an Old English Sheep-dog and he talks to him all the time in Gaelic and the dog understands him with ease. As a matter of fact the dog will not respond to English.

Possibly the reason you are able to understand Darling is that he spends a lot of time in the Western Isles of Scotland and has picked up the accent.

I only post this to demonstrate that you do not have the monopoly on talking nonsense.
98

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 22/09/2008 17:10:56
108

Why would anybody who is truly English worry about anybody being truly British?
99

,

22/09/2008 17:19:22
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Reason:
100

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 22/09/2008 17:19:34
84

Certainly if there were only 2 or 3 parties standing.
101

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 22/09/2008 17:22:54
117

Aye true I believe they are waiting for the UKIP merger with Lord sutches raving loonies before committing themselves. I understand the Labour party have waved the competition legislation due to the size of support for both parties.
102

Truely English,

22/09/2008 17:40:55
How strange to think that it was the Scots who invented the concept of Britain and kept it going just to ensure that they remained at the centre of our British Empire and the jobs that went with it at every level.
John Bull was afterall John Arbuthnott from Scotland who went out of his way to make us all feel British in the most English ways possible. Thankfully, he succeeded especially in Scotland and Northern Ireland among every age group.

The English know they are British and it seems that the Scots are very British also only a small number wish to do away with our proud history and language and Culture for no reason whatsoever.
103

Toxic Tantra,

22/09/2008 17:56:16
I blame the Romans.
104

Truely English,

22/09/2008 18:00:19
116
It is important we think as one big nation and not one that gets smaller.
105

Ronald Penman,

Glasgow 22/09/2008 18:09:31
Dispatches : Let Down By Labour . 8 pm Channel 4

Tonights expose discovers a nation rife with child poverty and, at the other spectrum, pensioners who fear they won't be able to afford their gas bills this winter .

Its clear that something has gone terribly wrong .

Do you think that the "editor" and "journalists" at the hootsmon will be watching ?
106

thibor,

musselburgh 22/09/2008 18:15:44

Mr Brown................you are the weakest link
107

A1,

Larkhall 22/09/2008 18:18:18
The only people who class themselves as BRITISH are immigrants
108

A1,

Larkhall 22/09/2008 18:25:41
Truly English.
Is part of your proud history the illegal war on Iraq
109

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 22/09/2008 18:37:12
120

Not nearly as strange to still see your up on a school day.
110

Truely English,

22/09/2008 18:45:47
126
We are all part of Britain and proud to do our duty whether it is a labour or Conservative Government.

The Scots are just as British if not more so than the English.
111

Davie from Irvine,

Ayrshire 22/09/2008 18:52:35
Truely English, like many unionists you talk about the British empire, many talk as though it was one big favour for the good of everyone including the inhabitants of the countrys which were taken over.
112

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 22/09/2008 18:56:08
123

Dont tell J K Rowling about the child poverty she might give Gordon another million to spend on the Iraq Afgan wars.
113

Davie from Irvine,

Auld Irvine Toun Ayrshire 22/09/2008 18:57:23
130, well said.
114

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 22/09/2008 18:58:42
128

If we are all part of Britain why are you truly English and not truly British?
115

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 22/09/2008 19:20:45
133

And you dont care that truely English is a troll only posting to sh*t stir? and also posting as UKIP in order to well f*k knows.
In fact why shouldnt we believe your not just the same troll with a new logon?
The people degrading these blogs are the very pr*ks your defending.
116

brownlie,

22/09/2008 19:26:07
133 Salem

Great point, you've noticed that us unionists on this thread never insult anyone by reference to Fat Alex and Scottish Nazis or, indeed, anything along those lines.

I suspect that is why we are so popular in Scotland.
117

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 22/09/2008 19:40:14
136

No your not your the troll posting as truely english and UKIP. Yer nae foolin anybody the night.
118

brownlie,

22/09/2008 20:10:59
136 Salem

Well, if you are, shame on you then.

Even as a die-hard unionist I cannot recall Nats, in general, referring to whiskey, haggis and bag-pipes or having sexual intercourse with the English.

We unionist do constantly say that to wind them up so my mistake was, I hope you'll agree, pardonable.
119

Darien,

Panama 22/09/2008 20:26:02
#128: "The Scots are just as British if not more so than the English."
Certainly the likes of Broon goes over the score with his Britishness fundamentalism crusade and suppression of his own Scottishness most of the time. That kind of behaviour and pandering to southern Engerland really p*ss*s off the rest of us Scots. As for your claim of dual nationality, these test of that is which one takes precedence for you - and my guess its English. If that is so, you should strive for English independence.

#133: "I’ve noticed there appears to be a higher percentage of the intellectually challenged in the west of Scotland."
You're not the first English Tory to notice that. Historically this has helped to explain to the rest of us Scots why NewLab has been very strong in the west up till now. But the times they are a changin even there, a la Glasgow East. And when that happens, bingo!
120

yoric,

22/09/2008 20:42:29
All this money that the Westminster Labour Government has thrown into Scotland and they still can't win a by-election.
Only goes to show you can't buy votes.

Question.... If the Scots won't vote for Brown and Darling etc, if Gordon can't win a by-election in his own back yard, then why should he expect the English to vote for him?
121

Michael,

22/09/2008 20:46:28
There isn't going to be a Brown bounce. English voters hate him - there will never ever be a Scottish PM again and remember that Brown is the first scot sitting for a scottish constituency ever to have become UK prime minister. So much for Scotland punching above its weight in the union.
122

livilion,

livingston 22/09/2008 21:26:01
#133 Salem
"I’ve noticed there appears to be a higher percentage of the intellectually challenged in the west of Scotland."

Aye and even those are deserting The Peoples' Party in droves.

"In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, Brave, Hated, and Scorned.
When his cause succeeds however,the timid join him, For then it costs nothing to be a Patriot"

My folks and their nieghbours in Shettleston voted SNP for the first time because as they put it 'the Labour candidate reminded us of Maggie Thatcher the way she patronised us'

123

livilion,

livingston 22/09/2008 21:37:34
141 Michael,
You are welcome to your blue rinse Conservative and Unionist future.

Perhaps you might sign up some French, Italians or a big Portugeser to run your end of the island if Scots are now to be personae non gratae in England. Face it, who else among the natives down there do you have really who is up to running the show?

Our future up here may well have a Conservative or three in it but only after they cut the apron strings to Whitehall.
124

lulach mac gille coemgain,

22/09/2008 22:21:12
Doon oor street . . . ‘Girls Aloud Alley’ ye quite often hear . . . ‘That Gordon Broons an Ugly Bastaad’ passin’ the lips of the happy hard workin’ class children.
125

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 23/09/2008 06:34:20
144

Posting with one logon at a time as opposed to hiding behind several at once to pretend your point of view is shared is the difference troll boy.
126

Dragonhead,

Dalian,China 23/09/2008 06:48:59
The last time I saw a picture like that was Il Duce, Mussolini. We know what happened to him, don't we? Upside down!
127

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 23/09/2008 07:43:59
140

Or it means that the money flows North to South and not South to North and everybody up here knows it.
128

Dragonhead,

Dalian,China 23/09/2008 08:19:05
A repeat of my earlier post on the photograph of Il Duce,Mussolini (pose)look alike GB (Gormless Beggar).We all know what happened to the original owner of the pose? Hung upside down and mutilated!
129

,

24/09/2008 16:44:28
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