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80 people dead in 'cultural genocide'



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Published Date: 17 March 2008
TIBET is facing "cultural genocide" by Chinese authorities as protests continue against almost 60 years of occupation, according to the Dalai Lama.
The exiled spiritual leader of Tibet also accused China of a "rule of terror" and said at least 80 Tibetans had died in violence on Friday and another 72 were injured. China had previously claimed just 10 had died, in fires started by the rioters.

Clashes yesterday spread into neighbouring Chinese provinces with large Tibetan populations as the deadline by which protesters were instructed to turn themselves in came closer. It expires at midnight tonight.

The Dalai Lama, speaking from the base of the Tibetan government-in-exile in Dharamsala, India, called for an international investigation.

He said: "Whether intentionally or unintentionally, some cultural genocide is taking place. Whether the (Chinese] government there admits or not, there is a problem … (an] ancient nation with ancient cultural heritage is actually dying.

"Some respected international organisation can find out what the situation is in Tibet and what is the cause. Please investigate."

China blocked internet users from accessing video sharing website YouTube after footage of showing foreign news reports about the Lhasa demonstrations, montages of photos, and scenes from Tibet-related protests abroad was uploaded.

The government of the country is trying to present a polished image in advance of the Olympic Games in Beijing in August.

Foreign leaders yesterday condemned the Chinese crackdown on protesters.

Mark Malloch Brown, a Foreign Office minister, warned China not to repeat its 1989 response to protesters in Tiananmen Square which led to the deaths of hundreds of students.

Lord Brown said: "On Saturday morning, in the China Daily (newspaper], the only reference to what was happening (in Tibet] was that it was all the Dalai Lama's fault.

"That is not going to work in a country which is about to host thousands of journalists and have hundreds of millions of viewers of its Olympics. It's going to have to engage openly with this problem for its own reputation's sake."

In London yesterday, Tibetan exiles based in the UK vented their anger against China. A group of about 40 gathered outside the Chinese embassy in London, with some banging on the door in protest.

The Free Tibet Campaign said they expected larger numbers to attend again today. A protest at the embassy has been timed to coincide with the deadline set by the Chinese authorities over Tibetan unrest.

The German foreign minister, Frank-Walter Steinmeier, called on his Chinese counterpart to end the violence in Tibet and to allow the greatest possible transparency on reporting events in the region.

In a long telephone call early yesterday, Steinmeier appealed to the Chinese foreign minister, Yang Jiechi, to find a peaceful solution to the unrest in Tibet and expressed the concerns of the German government over the recent violence in the province.

Austria's foreign minister called for an immediate end to the violence and bloodshed in Tibet. Ursula Plassnik said that Austria was deeply disturbed by the recent human rights violations in Tibet.

She also urged Beijing to begin a direct dialogue with the Dalai Lama.

The Dalai Lama said Beijing deserved to host the Olympic Games, but added: "The international community has the moral responsibility to remind the Chinese government in order to be a good host of the Olympic Games."

The Chinese authorities have portrayed the Dalai Lama as an aristocrat trying to break up China – Tibet makes up one-eighth of the total landmass of a China including Tibet.

As the violence spread out from the Tibetan capital, Lhasa, there were reports that Tibetans had thrown petrol bombs in the town of Aba in the neighbouring Chinese province of Sichuan. They were also said to have burned a police station and vehicles during clashes.

Protests over the weekend also spread to a Tibetan area of the Gansu province after mainly peaceful protests in Lhasa were confronted by Chinese troops.

The Dalai Lama said peaceful protest by Tibetans was "right" as an expression of their "deep resentment".

He added: "Generally, Tibetans are following, I think quite sincerely, non-violent principles. Of course individual human beings, when emotions come out of control, then certain sorts of violent actions are possible. But my principle, everybody knows, is completely committed to non-violence."

In Paris yesterday, police used tear gas to repel hundreds of pro-Tibet protesters gathered outside the Chinese embassy. One protester climbed the front of the embassy building and took down the red Chinese flag hanging there. The man tried to hang a Tibetan flag in its place, but was stopped when a police officer snapped the flag pole.

Some protesters had Tibetan flags over their shoulders; others carried placards urging an end to killings in Tibet and expressed support for the Dalai Lama. Several arrests were made.

In recent years, the Dalai Lama has pulled back from calling for full independence for Tibet and instead simply supported more autonomy – this has been called his "middle-way" approach.

Tsering Tashi, the Dalai Lama's London representative, said they were worried about what would happen after tonight's deadline to protesters and said there needed to be an international presence in Tibet.

He said: "What's happening shows the deep-rooted resentment of the oppressive Chinese rule of Tibet. To brand protesters as criminals is ridiculous. The Tibetan people are all part of one human family on this Earth and we ask the world to come to the rescue of Tibetan people.

"Even the Chinese people want more freedom. This is the right moment for the Chinese government to respond to the Dalai Lama's middle-way approach."

The unrest in Tibet began on 10 March on the anniversary of a 1959 uprising against Chinese rule of the region. Tibet was effectively independent for decades before the Chinese People's Liberation Army entered the province in 1950.


The full article contains 983 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 16 March 2008 9:08 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

The Pianist,

17/03/2008 00:11:31
There have been 14 Dalai Lamas.

Will there be one Chinese Olympics?
2

Despair,

Oxford 17/03/2008 00:15:28
I think that China should be censured by the United Nations and boycotted by the International Olympic Committee..and all good hearted athletes. China should withdraw immediately all their troops and Tibet's sovereignty should be re-established.. the Chinese had no right to invade, no right to stay, no right to kill monks and no right to kill citizens. Anyone who condones these actions or supports our athletes gaming in this murderous country is morally reprehensible and should be sent to China to live.
3

My Nose Is Not Brown,

and I am not a Darling 17/03/2008 00:35:54
Don't despair, Oxford.

Just drop a hint to Gee Dubya Herbacious that Al K Ida is hiding WMDs in Beijingsburgh capable of destroying the planet in less tha 45 minutes and the saviour of democracy will send billions of dollars* ("should read "thousands of soldiers") to your** aid.

(**should read Halliburton)
4

Tris,

17/03/2008 00:49:06

I don't believe that governments should be able to tell athletes whether they can or cannot compete in Olympics, or any other games, or whether on not they can travel to another country. I believe Thatcher did that at one time, but I don't think it worked.... (correct me if I'm wrong).

But if I were an athlete, I don't think I would go to China this year. Hard though it will be, I shall be trying to do without any further Chinese goods until this situation is resolved.

What an amazing man the Dalai Lama is.
5

Carolyn 1,

17/03/2008 00:57:52
If the Dalai Lama is not able to achieve peace for Tibet before August, there will never be peace.

@2Despair- I agree- if only it could happen! This generation is too selfish to boycott China.
The Chinese know they can get away with murder -they also know threats of sanctions/censure/boycott will never happen with this UN and EU.
6

Boy Wonder,

17/03/2008 01:16:52
Boycott the Chinese Olympics! Free Tibet!!!
7

RonsOpinion,

Edinburgh 17/03/2008 01:18:15
I shall proclaim that I may not be totally unbiased. I am a Scot who is married to a Han Chinese woman. Despite that I would like to try to get readers to think more deeply about this problem and indeed many of the problems throughout the world that our self-righteousness and our western media often simplifies down to black and white. Reading the history of Tibet is a very interesting and chastening thing to do for us British.

But as a thought exercise, just imagine if the Pope set up a government-in-exile for Northern Ireland and Catholics started to loot and kill Unionists and destroy their properties in Northern Ireland, wouldn’t the British very quickly send troops in to quell the unrest; does the parallel sound familiar?

The Dalai Lama is either the spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhists or he is a politician. As the head of a government-in-exile he appears to be a politician and should be treated as such. This would change black and white into something that represents the many shaded reality and would then make a resolution of all parties interests much more likely.
8

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 17/03/2008 01:34:51
BW @#6,
What are you doing on at this time of night,?

Scotland will be a 'Red China' soon, So whats the 'horror',? albeit don't think we will succumb to murder and execution, but it boils down to the same thing!

Controlled by the 'Hitlers' and worse!

'Aye' Bonnie Scotland! it wont be long, it wont be long!
9

W Smith,

Middle East 17/03/2008 02:10:00
Tibet was a victim of left wing colonialism (or is it 'imperialism'?) and the Labour Party member Tony Benn's reaction was to proclaim Chairman Mao the "most influential man of the twentieth century".

Many of the asian countries in the Soviet Union were colonised, in the good name of communism, by white European russians while many of the ethnic races were forced by Stalin and others to move to other parts of the SU to dilute or destroy their political power.

Even the white Ukrainian nationlists were crushed by Stalin in the early 1930's.

All these atrocities didn't stop the Scottish Labour Party, the STUC and some SNP lunatics from supporting the SovIet Union.

This colonialism may have attracted alex Salmond to join the radical 79 Group while his mate Galloway said the collapse of the Soviet Union was the biggest upset of his life - THE SAD GIT!
10

Guga II,

Rockall 17/03/2008 03:15:27
Boycott the Chinese Olympics!
11

Leonardo da Finchley,

Finchley 17/03/2008 04:46:01
#8.
What are you on and can I have some?
12

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA........Hillary for Pres....Barack Hus 17/03/2008 05:35:37

Dudes,

This flame of freedom burning in Tibet is small and means nothing to the Chinese tyrants, CCP/PLA and to their mouth pieces like Dragonhead.

Western Corporations should immediately begin a 10/20 years program of switching all their investments away from China and into India.

Begin with new investments now , build the factories , train the Indian people etc. As these manufacturing sites come on line in India, begin closing down the manufacturing in China by suspending all VIP's work-in-progress orders.

Indian has a similar size mass of labor ,but their 1.2 billion citizens, can VOTE and have freedom of speech. India is a federal Republic and the English language is used for national, political, and commercial communication;

The longer the Western Corps, invest in China the sooner the Chinese will reach a military position strong enough to take over Taiwan, complete their genocide in Tibet and consider attacking Japan.

Happy St. Patrick's Day dudes.

GC
13

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 17/03/2008 06:05:03
I told the Chinese yesterday that I'm withdrawing from the Games. Are they deaf?
14

,

17/03/2008 06:11:19
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
15

Pilrig.,

Livingston 17/03/2008 06:24:42
8 & 9 = Tories.

Vive Tibet Libre
16

clarry,

17/03/2008 06:43:44

Just in time for the Olympics.

Grandda want his power back.

NOTHING LIKE GENOCIDE IN ISRAEL.

Everyone being fed ect. right to exist.
Just no religious leader. China secular country. Doesn't support religion.

Dali Lama the one organising the opposition and riots.
China trying to put them down to keep order.

Support Dali Lama regime if necessary, freedom of religion, but realise the problems.

Listen to 7 Ronsopinion
17

Gilmartin,

Philippines 17/03/2008 06:48:46
Where are all the lefties who spent years demonstrating outside the South African embassy? No sign of them at the Chinese Embassy; is it because they share the same Marxist ideals as the Chinese or is it because Tibet lacks a Saint Mandela?
18

clarry,

17/03/2008 07:02:42
8


Hi Charles - what you doing being on at that time of night. Thought you would be busy with you lovely nursey wife.

Scotland will always be 'bonnie' Come on my son!
19

Bob Christie,

17/03/2008 08:11:54
Surprising there have no posts today from the apologists for the odious Chinese regime. viz Dragonhead & Scotia.

I hope all athletes with a conscience will boycott the farce of the stage managed Olympic Games in Beijing.
20

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 17/03/2008 08:23:21
clarry @#18,

GoodMonday Morning to you, don't worry DYW or your given NW (nursery wife), was well catered for over the weekend, with my undivided attention and our siesta times.

I only hope we will have the same 'freedom's' when,
'Edinburgh Castle' and the 'Scottish
Parliament'
Start flying there 'at their ready',

'RED FLAGS'
21

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 17/03/2008 08:26:30
Re...to early for Moi!....:-)


Start flying their 'at the ready',

'RED FLAGS'
22

Upandunder,

17/03/2008 08:31:29
No sign of the Jew-baiters masquerading as "peace campaigners" who bang on about Palestine (and nothing else) outside the Chinese embassy.

The only reason these one-eyed Guardian readers don't get worked up about Tibet is simple: The Chinese aren't Jews.

In case anyone asks, I'm not Jewish. I'm agnostic.
23

Tr33hu55er,

Bathgate 17/03/2008 08:33:21
If Tibet had oil reserves the western world would be offering unlimited resources and assistance to remove the Chinese occupation.
24

Calum Crubag,

17/03/2008 08:50:26
Hey, let's figure this out...
China has WMDs.
It's invaded a neighbourging country.
It has no democracy.
It is killing and oppressing it's own people and those of another nation.

Hence, we should soon see a Yank/ Brit invasion. No?

Or is China to big and important to be fkd with? Unlike Iraq.

Now, who said that the US was a bully?
25

Calum Crubag,

17/03/2008 08:52:33
#9 - Blair has also praised Thatcher and Enoch Powell. And preys/ prays with Dubya.
26

Encephalon,

17/03/2008 09:29:44
The Chinese are only doing to Tibet what the Europeans did to the Americas and Australia 200 years ago. Sorry but we really do not have any high horse to mount! Doesn't make it right but that is real-politik of the situation -not to mention that China may like to bring up the invasion of Iraq!

Boycott the Olympics-personally I dont really care-athletics seem to come down to who has the best pharmacists as much as ability. China is undoubtedly going to use the event as a massive propoganda exercise to demonstrate their status as an emerging super-power-it will be fascininating to watch-a bit like Hitler's 1936 Berlin Olympia.
27

Encephalon,

17/03/2008 09:32:51
#19 they are probably subject to the press restrictions that have been enforced in China-hence no posts from our intrepid posters on the ground!
28

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 17/03/2008 09:33:30
I'm willing to believe that the people of Tibet want liberation from China. But after decades of reading reports of the plight of Tibet, I still need convincing. I'm constantly fed the views of the Dalai Lama and his followers, and that China is destroying Tibet's cultural tradions. But I get no indication of what the average person in Tibet wants. I have the image of some poor guy with uniformed thugs at one end of his street threatening to stomp on his iPod and a bunch of monks at the other end telling him he doesn't really need it anyway. I wonder what his views on the Olympics are.

#7 Thanks for the thoughtful post.
29

fearghus,

Dunedin 17/03/2008 09:37:01
Don't forget that Northern Ireland and Scotland are still colonial assets of England, get yer own house in order first before you worry about China. Cumberland makes Mao look like a pussycat.

The interesting thing is that with England it's first in / last off whereas China is last in/last off.
30

Upandunder,

Proof at last 17/03/2008 09:45:53
Proof at last. The active Left do NOT campaign against oppression and injustice, and are not "peace" campaigners.

They look at the perpetrator of oppression first, THEN decide whether or not to protest.

Palestine, apartheid SA, Chile under Pinochet, USA in Iraq - protests and calls for sanctions, boycotts, etc. And rightly so, I would add.

Darfur, China, Mugabe, Taliban - no protests, nothing!

Interesting, really. The Taliban kill homosexuals, secularists and wants to deny women any form of free speech or even the right to a basic education.

And there was silly me thinking lefties championed gay and women's rights???

This is the Left's checklist for protest:

Protest ONLY (regardless the nature and extent of the persecution) if the perpetrator is: White, American, Christian, Jewish or capitalist.

To them, one person in Guantanamo is worse than 1,000 dead Tibetans or Darfurians.
31

MT,

17/03/2008 09:47:31
Would it be possible perhaps to change the location of the olympics? Perhaps several countries could pull together to host the games.
32

MT,

17/03/2008 09:48:18
no.29 you know, I think you are basically right although most Scottish people probably would never admit it.
33

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 17/03/2008 09:56:31
#30 "Proof at last."

That's great news. Would you care to share this proof with us?
34

Clive Hamblin,

South Coast 17/03/2008 10:09:00
They're at it again !!

Having attempted, over recent days, to turn the world into a midden, some of the commentators on these boards now seek to wreck the Olympics.

It's a cheap stunt!!

If I and other reasonable people like me, wish to partake in, or just watch sporting activity, that's our business and not yours.

Sport and Party politics should never mix.

You have no right to tell us what what we may or may not enjoy.



35

fearghus,

Dunedin 17/03/2008 10:10:34
Thanks MT for comment 32,

When women get bashed repeatedly they become numbed by it - we call this ""battered women syndrome". The Scots and Irish have had the same therapy and whole generations of cutural battering which has left those under English colonial rule unable to see the forest for the trees; just as the poor battered women even start to be proud of their status and thankful for their 'treatment'!

Hows that for brainwashing ???

36

conservative,

Fife 17/03/2008 10:11:28
Pragmatism rules.

China is big so don't threaten it.
China is economically important so don't upset it.
The Olympic games are nice to have so don't threaten a boycott.
I bet Iraq wished it were China!
37

,

17/03/2008 10:14:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
38

A Better Way,

Edinburgh 17/03/2008 10:25:27
There are some real nutters on this forum today. Everyone of them appear to be Britnats. W Smith confuses the political persuasion of China by claiming they are left wing. As I have stated many times before he certainly is 98 p short of a quid and needs to go and see a good head doctor, quickly before he hurts himself.

Ya poor sod, away and bile yer heid.
39

busbyfh,

17/03/2008 10:30:08
Surely no decent person could condone taking part in this years Olympics.

BOYCOTT NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
40

Nellie,

Liverpool 17/03/2008 10:52:47
#4 Of course athletes should be allowed to compete where they want - to do otherwise would be like the Chinese dictators! HOWEVER, it is not for the athletes to decide if they are competing as representatives of the UK. They can represent themselves but certainly not represent me!

If the atheletes want to go, let them; but they should not be allowed to compete under the British banner!
41

Neil,

Glasgow 17/03/2008 10:59:17
Remember that at the start of the Kosovo our media reported the US government statement that Milosevic had killed 500,000 people. Over the weekeend we have seen numerous claims of death - 2, 10, 100, 80 30(in SoS yesterday). Has anybody any evidence whatsoever that the current claims are at least 5,000 closer to honest than the standard of honesty expected from such sources which would mean it was possible 1 person had died.


Meanwhile, of course, the same media continue to censor any mention of massacres, such as Dragodan, in which we have engaged in the real, not merely "cultural" genocide of hundreds of thousands of people.
42

Spankyb,

London 17/03/2008 11:18:48
China's whole argument is that they want 'One China'. Someone needs to tell them that if they Free Tibet, it'll still be 'One China' albeit a little bit smaller...
43

Rob7,

England 17/03/2008 11:48:51
To begin with I don't know a great deal about Tibet or China.

Surely if we are to start 'ordering' other countries to do what we tell them then first we need to get our own house in order. Currently we have a foreign government (Scottish), who were not elected democratically by the Engish ordering us to do what they want. We need to first of all kick out all the Scots from England.
44

nolimits,

Canada 17/03/2008 12:04:43
Well now... China has had some great experiences with Great Britain vis the 'Opium Wars', and the US vis 'Gunboat diplomacy'. They have learned well, have they not?
45

RonsOpinion,

17/03/2008 12:29:45
Well said nolimits – Canada @44

May I point out that the British invaded Tibet in 1903, with thousands killed by this action, and subsequently forced China to sign an agreement that gave Britain monopolistic trading rights in Tibet. The threat that Britain used was that of annexing Tibet if the Chinese did not agree.

May I also point out that the British also attempted to annexe Ireland, not to mention that together with their Special Relationship partner the USA, it was the British who invaded Iraq.

I don’t think we British have any moral high ground in the present day world and we should be very sensitive before we spout forth.
46

Memyself&I,

17/03/2008 12:30:44
#29 Away and boil yer heid. Colonial assets. Wonder where you heard that little sound bite? Ridiculous SNP propeganda.
47

Calum Crubag,

17/03/2008 12:44:37
Upandunder. Yeah, where's your proof. Im not right-wing but hate the Taleban. And im sure that hundreds of thousands of 'lefties' died together with Jews, and others, in the concentration camps.
48

Graham Barnes,

Gravesend, Kent 17/03/2008 13:04:34
Rob7, 43 Throw all the Scots out of England, eh? I was born in England of Scots descent, and I abhor comments like this. Maybe someone is feeling a little grumpy about the 'Calcutta Cup?' I'm proud of my heritage, and consider myself Scottish, not English. Of course, you don't need Scots in England, the influx of Eastern Europeans and other immigrants, most of them illegal, are sufficient here to keep the country running. As for the 'foreign government,' I think we all know that Mr Brown won't be around for too long, so no worries there. I do agree with one little point you made, about keeping our own house in order. As for the point in question, about China and Tibet, news coverage from that area is very thin to date and nobody really knows the extent of the problem, other than those involved. Galactic Cannibal made a very good, valid point concerning moving industry to India, and though this would take time, could it not be considered? As for aiding Tibet, someone else hit the nail on the head. There is nothing there to benefit the western powers. No oil or real natural resources, unlike in Iraq, Afghanistan or Kuwait. So why would they worry? If the western powers were truly bothered by the actions of China, they should be bothered by what is happening in Zimbabwe and Kenya. But telling athletes, from whichever country, not to take part in the olympics, is an affront to democracy also, and these athletes should be allowed to make up their own minds, to use their own judgement and conscience.
49

Tris,

17/03/2008 13:10:40
44 and 45.

Completely agree. Bitain has no grounds whatsoever for criticising any country that invades another and kills thousands of people in the doing thereof in order to avail themselves of that country's wealth.

That of course never stops it putting its oar in, and spouting forth a pile of idiotic politically correct rubbish from the likes of Blair, Thatcher, Brown and their cabinet lackies, the hypocracy of which must make most of the rest of the world double up in laughter.

I'm Scottish, and I have never invaded a country and never killed anyone. As an individual with that record, I maintain the right to criticise China personally, as I imagine, do many other people.
50

RonsOpinion,

Edinburgh 17/03/2008 13:33:35
Tris @49 – Like you I have never invaded a country or killed anyone but it is not that easy to wash your hands of our nations aggressions towards other sovereign peoples, those aggressive acts were made in our names by people we voted for democratically.

Constructive criticism is good, all I was calling for was an appreciation of the real facts when formulating criticisms. In the debate over Tibet there appears to be precious little attempt to understand the background, nor the actual political and socio-economic situation that really exists.
51

Nellie,

Liverpool 17/03/2008 13:51:13
#45,#49

Sorry, but that's rubbish. To infer that Britain TODAY has some moral responsibity for what our nation did yesterday is a nonsense. We are not responsible for what our forefather's did. Would you still hold today's Campbell's responsible for the murder of the MacDonald's at Glencoe in 1692 (?) Does that mean no Campbell of today has no right to criticise a MacDonald of today it s/he commits a murder? Of course not! Britain may be justifiably criticised for manyy things that are happening today, but occupying Tibet isn't one of them because, in case you've not noticed, we left Tibet years ago! However, the Chinese invaded Tibet and they continue to occupy the country. Until they withdraw, it is quite justifiable to critice them for being there. They should get out and leave the Tibetans to govern their own lands.
52

Olympic_Boycott,

17/03/2008 13:58:04
#45 As a government we may not have a moral high-ground - but as individuals we certainly do have a right and an obligation to make our voices heard.

There is only ONE China......

There is ONE mainland China..
There is ONE China with a SAR (Hong Kong)
There is ONE China with a somewhat independent Taiwan
There is ONE China including Tibet

Would it really hurt the Chinese to restore freedom to Tibet?
53

Olympic_Boycott,

17/03/2008 13:58:04
#45 As a government we may not have a moral high-ground - but as individuals we certainly do have a right and an obligation to make our voices heard.

There is only ONE China......

There is ONE mainland China..
There is ONE China with a SAR (Hong Kong)
There is ONE China with a somewhat independent Taiwan
There is ONE China including Tibet

Would it really hurt the Chinese to restore freedom to Tibet?
54

RonsOpinion,

Edinburgh 17/03/2008 14:20:47
Nellie #51

I do think that historical awareness is important for a people but I will concede that collective blame does dilute with time. The Campbells must retain an historical awareness of their past just as the Germans do to this day and we as British should also be self-reflective about our past and take that knowledge to become wiser mediators in the world.

That wisdom should tell us that the problems with Tibet vs. China are not clear cut and simple. They have long and complicated histories and we, as an ancient European nation that has lived through a convoluted history ourselves, should have learned that the solution to those types of problems cannot be solved with the sledgehammer of boycotts, but reasoned and patient dialogue. That does not mean we shouldn’t verbalise our discomfort with another nations behaviour, just do it in a constructive manner that would have the promise of some progress, remembering that our taking part in the invasion of Iraq can easily lead us to look very hypocritical. Boycotting the Olympics can only harden opinions, which I think would be counterproductive.
55

kimba,

17/03/2008 14:47:03
29. Stop talking a load of sh-t,it's folk like you that cause division.
56

Calum Crubag,

17/03/2008 15:41:21
I blame King Billy of Orange for the slaughter at Glencoe. Billy was just as much a tyrant as any Pope. Shows us that once again, religion and power are a bad mixture. 'God made me do it...', 'god save the king...'.
57

Strict Ivan Jellicoe,

Renfrew 17/03/2008 15:50:23
We can't be too critical of China - they're our trading parteners now who we do lots of business with!

Calum - did it really take you 56 entried, and to nearly 4 o'clock in the aftrennon to blame God for what mankind does to itself?
58

Neil,

Glasgow 17/03/2008 16:27:21
Tris 49 the problem is that, since your government have undoubtedly done exactly the crimes you complain of, if you wish to be credible in attacking China you must be able to show that you have actually dissociated youreslf approriately from our government's actions. Can you show that you have spent at least 10,000 times as much effort to call for the imprisonment of the genocidal Nazi murderers in the Cabinet Office than you have criticising the Chinese leaders. If not a clear racist imbalance exists.
59

Balder,

Scotland 17/03/2008 16:31:51
Why is George Bush not invading China?
He invaded Iraq on the strength of lies about WMDs and imagined links to Al-Queada.

Why is he ignoring a bona fida case that cries out for the liberation of the Tibetian people???

Is it perhaps because he is too chicken to take on a real army that can fight back????
60

kimba,

17/03/2008 16:36:58
57. There are somethings more important than money, and if we don't support the tibetans in their struggle for freedom we are no better than the chinese tyrants.
61

kimba,

17/03/2008 16:37:46
59. Because they have nukes!
62

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA...bye Bush -Cheney..u. evil leaders. 17/03/2008 17:58:00
80 people dead in 'cultural genocide'
---------------------------------------------

Hey U Dudes.

History has shown that all nations, are guilty one time
or another, of atrocities on their own people, and against other nations.

BUT never in Human History has any atrocity equaled the CHINESE brutal repression of their people.

One billion three hundred thousand (1.3 billion) Chinese citizens, cannot VOTE their conscience, nor PROTEST in free speech.

Just think about the magnitude of this CHINESE crime.

It is the equivalent, of the countries listed below, not allowing their citizens to VOTE their conscience, nor allowing them to protest in Free speech.

USA, Brazil, Russia.
Japan, Mexico, Germany.
France, Italy, Spain.
Argentina, Poland, Canada.
Australia, UK, Ireland.
Sweden.
Total populations = 1.32 Billion
China population = 1.32 Billion

U can dismiss communist mouth pieces like Dragonhead, who support the Chinese tyrants CCP/PLA.

The Dragonhead's are micro pawns in this Chinese apocalyptic human rights crime.

The West will rue the day , they supported communist CHINA and the CCP/PLA, and allowed them to grow in financial strength, and military might.

All in the name of greed and profit.


Happy St. Patrick's Day dudes.

GC
63

sky7,

17/03/2008 17:58:51
ahem, variously, there are jews in china. the dalai lama has nothing to do with the violence of the protests. the united states won't invade china because we borrowed money from them and they can foreclose on us anytime. Viz Dubai, viz Saudi Arabia... Talk about a hostile takeover.
64

lou from niagara,

Miagara Falls Canada 17/03/2008 18:17:43
#2 Despair said it all and said it well, if we still carry on with the Olympics it means we condone this regime. Let's boycott this bunch of thugs, both in trading and the Olympics.
65

David MacVicar,

web 17/03/2008 18:34:31
Boycott Olympics? OK, but this is hypocracy coming from all of us buying chines goods and directly supporting Chinese policies.

BOYCOTT CHINESE GOODS TODAY.
BOYCOTT CHINESE GOODS TOMORROW.
BOYCOTT CHINESE GOODS WHEREVER POSSIBLE.

We can send a message just as the US consumers sent to France after the French refused to invade Iraq. Except this time our boycott would be totally justified!!

DO NOT BUY CHINESE GOODS its as simple as that.
66

Biker,

Ayr 17/03/2008 18:41:09
Its timetrading embargos were introduced as a weapon to blunt the Chinese agression. There is more to come over this stupidity with protestors being jailed or executed. Give up before midnight or we will be very heavy with you? It really doent bear thinking about.
My personal opinion is that we should boycott the Olympics as this only gived support to the CCP. The Moscow Olympics were boycotted for the invasion of Afganistan, so why is the process not repeated here. Well said Gallactic Caniball and the rest of you.
By the way I strongly suspect that Dunderhead is being censored and prevented from his usual pro China tirade. I wish to state here and now that I harbour no ill will to the Chinese people, simply their corrupt and dangerous government.
BOYCOTT THE OLYMPICS AND FREE TIBET!!!!
67

CROSSED GEORGE,

England 17/03/2008 19:15:36
No doubt Herr Salmond will be getting ideas.

As previously said, someone like Salmond with his views would be locked up in any other country
68

CROSSED GEORGE,

England 17/03/2008 19:18:58
fearghus,Dunedin 17/03/2008 09:37:01
Don't forget that Northern Ireland and Scotland are still colonial assets of England, get yer own house in order first before you worry about China. Cumberland makes Mao look like a pussycat.

The interesting thing is that with England it's first in / last off whereas China is last in/last off.

HOW ARE WE THEN BEING TOOK OVER BY OUR COLONIAL ASSET THEN? COMPLETE RUBBISH
69

Pilrig.,

Livingston 17/03/2008 19:29:44
67 - you mean boycott goods ,made in the People's Republic of China I presume cos I'm damned if I'm going to boycott Livi's numerous Chinese takeaways. Some can exist withoot char-sui curry, I cannae.
70

Biker,

Ayr 17/03/2008 19:37:25
69 He he he I dont think that counts mate
71

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 17/03/2008 20:12:06
Those of us with bushes growing out of our ears and nostrils will remember Sam Ramsamy at the head of the South African Non-Racial Olympic Committee, urging us to boycott apartheid South African sport. "No normal sport in an abnormal society." And then there was all that trouble over Zola Budd's flag-of-convenience. Remember all the protests? Well now, shortly after China butchered unarmed students at Tianenmen Square, McDonnell Douglas was happily signing a massive aircraft contract with the Chinese regime. In fact you can go all the way back to the Nixon rapprochement to find that the USA has long had no qualms about dealing with an extraordinarily oppressive regime, in which thousands of prisoners of conscience have been tortured and executed. Even today, the Tibetan people have been denied the right to an internationally monitored referendum on independence. Make no mistake - there is no freedom of speech in China, and access to the media and printed word is severely restricted. Try to form a political party in China, and you will very quickly discover that the people in power are still those narrow-minded, mentally inferior brutes lacking in compassion and with no grasp whatsoever on the desire of human beings to be free, physically, intellectually and spiritually. One wonders if the current South African Olympic Committee intends to boycott Beijing, or are they just hypocrites like the current Labour government here in the UK?
72

JoeMcT,

BlairsFantasyIsland 17/03/2008 20:17:57
The Dalai Lama is due to visit Britain sometime soon.....as reported in the 'papers 2 weeks back.

When Downing Street was asked if Brown would meet the exiled Tibetan leader they said that "they" woud decide nearer the time.

Brown, Thatcher's heir apparent, then commented that the only relationship that mattered with China was the "business one".

So there you have it, the Red Army can slaughter as many Buddhist Monks as they like and our very own Dear Leader cares not a jot.
73

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 17/03/2008 20:20:09
The problem with boycotts is that the people engaging in them often lose the plot. We shouldn't forget that we need to shake the ruling Chinese gangsters, without creating a siege mentality among Chinese people that will drive them away from reform. Unhappily this is almost impossible to achieve, however one ought to befriend ordinary Chinese people, but hurt Chinese officials and politicians.
74

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 17/03/2008 20:25:53
#73 Joe McT: I guarantee that much as Gordo professes to be a Christian, he is a sell-out to Mammon (not the company that makes toy steam engines). I believe his heart is in big bucks, not morality, so he will refuse to meet the Dalai Lama. Whenever the undemocratically elected Chinese leader's shoes need polishing, you'll find Bush and Gordo down on their knees, happily licking away.
75

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 17/03/2008 20:34:52
#71 "Make no mistake - there is no freedom of speech in China, "

That's a strong statement, and is contradicted by my own (limited) experience. Over the last 20 years, I've met many mainland Chinese through business (both here and overseas, although never in China). All were happy to complain about their government, in similar tones to the way we do here. All were free to enter and leave their country.

In this country, if I were able to complain about our government at the level where I received significant attention and posed a significant threat to their position, would I really be any more free than people in China? My cynical feeling is that in both countries, my freedom would be determined by my wealth and the friends I could muster.
76

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 17/03/2008 20:40:30
I've just read Gordon's comment urging Chinese restraint in Tibet. What a bloody spineless wimp, a pathetic little jellyfish! At a time like this what a strong, good Prime Minister would say to China is:
"Either you sign an internationally ratified agreement to hold an internationally observed independence referendum for native Tibetans within three months, or we will pull out of the Olympics and many other agreements, and we will urge our trading partners to do the same. We can no longer support or tolerate a regime that suppresses the political, intellectual, spiritual and physical freedom of its own people. The people of the United Kingdom find such suppression to be obnoxious in the extreme."
77

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/03/2008 20:43:01
This paper is laughable.

Tibet wants independence. Get MacDonnell on the subject and tell the Tibetans they can't afford it.

Or does guns frighten him?

Bang, bang, Hamish. Ho Ho, political biggie at the Johnson Press.
78

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 17/03/2008 20:44:44
#76 Selgovae: Then why is it impossible for anyone to form a political party in China? Why is access to the Internet severely restricted so that Chinese people cannot read reports critical of their government? Where is the young man who stood in front of the tank at Tianenmen Square and his fellow students who have disappeared without trace? Why are all religious organisations vetted and many closed down? Why is access to the international media severely restricted?
Why can't the people of Tibet vote in a referendum to determine whether they wish to be independent? Don't be a wee daftie!
79

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 17/03/2008 20:55:38
If there is one thing that I have learnt, it is that people will do anything to be free. It is unbelievable to me that there are still regimes in this world - collections of odious, barbaric brutes of severely limited mental ability, who cannot recognise the basic humanity of people desperate to be self-ruling, and who instead let war drag on for decade after decade after decade. Amongst other places such cretins rule Sri-Lanka, the Sudan, Israel, and Russia. Why are these idiots incapable of displaying the slightest shred of compassion and understanding for the natural human desire to be free? Are they mentally diseased? Are they all suffering from dementia?
80

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 17/03/2008 21:02:12
#79 Caora Dubh

I'm often daft, but I like to think I'm nobody's fool.

I have no answers to any of your questions. They are all valid.

But to say there is no freedom of speech is a different matter. How did the current Chinese leaders achieve their position? How do the thousands of Chinese students in this country manage to travel the world? What's the point of political freedom when substantial power is held by the military? Can we shout their guns away?

But I'm genuinely interested in the referendum in Tibet you mention. Can you provide some information? But remember that we can't have a referendum to decide our EU situation. So I'd like to know whether there was mass support for it, or just a few disgruntled people.
81

HEN BROON 5,

17/03/2008 22:32:49
The prime minister is refusing to meet the Dalai Lama, the spiritual leader of the Tibetan people, when he visits Britain in May, clearly concerned at the displeasure this would cause to the Chinese government and subsequent trade implications.

He is happy to condemn the governments of Burma and Zimbabwe, but remains silent on the appalling human rights record of china, specifically in Tibet. The Chinese government is subjugating the whole population of Tibet, and attempting to destroy the whole Tibetan culture.


In a year when China is hosting the Olympic games and doing all it can to present a clean image to the world, it is essential that this image is challenged and the real brutality of the China regime is exposed.

Please sign the online petition, it only takes a minute. 10000 signatures are needed for it to have any effect on the prime minister. At present there are about 5500.

Please pass this message on.

(The Canadian and Australian prime mimisters have agreed to meet the Dalai Lama in spite of the anger this will cause to the Chinese government).


On line petition http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/DalaiLama/


To find out more about the situation in Tibet: www.freetibet.org
82

Pilrig.,

Livingston 17/03/2008 22:37:44
81 - well in this country I can slag the likes of Thatcher, Bambi and Paw Broon and I don't get the stardard issue kicking in my door. I may be wrong but I have the feeling if I was a resident of the "People's Republic" and I made 'inappropriate' remarks about the late murdering piece of scum, Mao Zedong, I don't think I'd have a quiet life thereafter.
83

Pilrig.,

Livingston 17/03/2008 22:42:57
82 - Rupert Murdoch, the Aussie soft-porn merchant supports the Beijing regime, and surely you don't expect Gordon or any of New Labour to antagonise the Dirty Digger ?
84

HEN BROON 5,

17/03/2008 22:43:16
52 Olympic_Boycott,17/03/2008 13:58:04
#45 "As a government we may not have a moral high-ground - but as individuals we certainly do have a right and an obligation to make our voices heard.

There is only ONE China......

There is ONE mainland China..
There is ONE China with a SAR (Hong Kong)
There is ONE China with a somewhat independent Taiwan
There is ONE China including Tibet

Would it really hurt the Chinese to restore freedom to Tibet? "

















China are determined to subdue and assimilate the Tibetan culture. To give Tibet her independence would be a huge loss of face for China.

Tibet has vast mineral wealth which the Chinese wish to exploit.

In a series of orchestrated events China launched the Gormo (Golmud)-Lhasa railway on 1 July, one year ahead of the original plans, asserting its control over occupied Tibet and displaying China's growing technological capabilities. The railway, linking Tibet for the first time to China's main rail network, has been a longstanding objective of the Party: it will assimilate Tibet more comprehensively into China and strengthen its military and political grip over the region.

This rail line will help to exploit the mineral wealth of Tibet.

Competing in the Olympics legitimises the brutal Chinese regime, all civilised nations should withdraw.

All people like the manic depressive Brown wants is trade. Not for the first time is Britain dipping her hands in blood.
85

Conan,

Chile 17/03/2008 23:32:08
Very well stated, Hen, #85.

And as a special treat for Guga .... with you all the way Baby! Boycott the Chinese Olympics! Boycott the Chinese Olympics! Boycott the Chinese Olympics! Boycott the Chinese Olympics! Boycott the Chinese Olympics! Boycott the Chinese Olympics!
86

Evia,

18/03/2008 00:49:56
Tibet belongs to the Tibetans and the Chinese have no business being there.

Like many others, I can't afford to attend the Chinese Olympics but I can at least avoid watching any media coverage of the events. for other reasons, I try to avoid buying goods made in China but it is quite difficult as much of the manufacture is now in China. The only reason for this is do that the greedy companies can make money out of cheap labour.
87

steve's here,

18/03/2008 01:09:58
most civic minded governments send in the police when rioting breaks out .....why have the Chinese sent in the military? "made in china"..it's back on the shelf! and i would boycott the "Chinese Olympics" if i knew how.
88

RonsOpinion,

Edinburgh 18/03/2008 09:57:57
This was the first discussion that I have taken part in on such a forum. The experience has been pretty dismaying but it has made me realise why the serious media in Britain has significantly dumbed down their output. The blinkered views put forward by some contributors here has, in my opinion, been staggering.

Don’t misunderstand me, I am no apologist for China but can’t avoid noticing that few contributors seemed to be willing to acknowledge that the situation in Tibet was not as simplistic as the Dalai Lama presents it. Obviously this kind of forum is unsuitable to deal with the long and complicated history of Tibet and China but before people start to propose boycotts and invasions, even though the remarks about invading can be easily dismissed.

Since the tenor of most contributors seems to favour a boycott of the Olympics, may I flippantly propose that the world boycotts the London Olympics because of the British invasion or colonisation, and as such, the possible “cultural modification”, of Afghanistan, Iraq, Northern Ireland, Falkland Isles and Belize.

May I thank Tristan Stewart-Robertson, whose original piece this has been. Your article was well written but it could have dealt a little with the historic background to the situation. It seems that some of your readers don’t have a deeper knowledge of Tibet and Chinese history.