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A common sight on the roads this summer … and it's only going to get worse

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Published Date: 19 July 2008
By ALASTAIR DALTON
TRANSPORT CORRESPONDENT
THEY are the vehicles that motorists either love or hate – depending on whether they are ahead of, or behind, their cars.
But now the often fraught relationship between caravanners and other drivers faces further strain, with predictions of record numbers of caravans on the roads this summer.

Tensions have been increased with the coining of the term "caravanger" to describe car drivers' likely reaction to having more caravans to contend with.

This has in turn enraged caravan groups, who condemned claims of increased traffic as exaggeration and scaremongering.

Caravans are limited to 60mph on motorways and dual carriageways, and 50mph on single carriageways – 10mph less than cars.

The extra traffic is expected to be generated by caravan sites reporting an increase in bookings compared with last year.

The Camping and Caravanning Club, which has 226,000 members, said its bookings had increased by 10 per cent, with an 8 per cent increase reported by the 375,000-strong Caravan Club.

The clubs attributed the extra bookings partly to the strong euro and the credit crunch, prompting owners to holiday in Britain.

The repair firm Autoglass said this was bad news for other drivers, and its publicists coined the word caravanger.

The company said the condition regularly affected two in three motorists, according to a poll it commissioned of 500 drivers. One in 20 drivers admitted overtaking caravans at an unsafe speed, with men twice as likely as women to risk it.

A spokeswoman for Autoglass said: "With more and more people trying to beat the credit crunch by holidaying in the UK this year, it is predicted that more caravans than ever will be on our roads."

Nigel Doggett, its managing director, said: "We would advise people to plan in extra time for their trips to ease the frustration caused by caravans and other slow-moving vehicles, and try to show some courtesy when overtaking. Resist the urge to see red and take unnecessary risks."

However, the Caravan Club accused the firm of scaremongering, since there were only 500,000 caravans on the roads compared to 33 million cars, while lorries had lower speed limits than caravans.

Nikki Nichol, its spokeswoman, said: "Autoglass runs the risk of alienating one of their market sectors – people with cars who tow caravans.

"Caravan site bookings are up, but simple logic dictates this will not cause a dramatic increase in caravans on the road to the extent they are suggesting."

Ruth Walmsley, a spokeswoman for the Camping and Caravanning Club, said: "Caravanners are very spatially aware and tend to be very good drivers."

Are you crazy about caravans – or do they drive you crazy?

CARAVANS have been regularly lampooned on BBC2's Top Gear, with presenter Jeremy Clarkson provoking a deluge of complaints when he called for them to be banned and described a caravan site in Dorset as a "concentration camp".

Clarkson told viewers: "We proved there is no upside to caravanning and they clog up the roads."

• Caravanners attempted to get their own back by issuing "Love Caravans, Hate Clarkson" stickers.

• John Bates-Williams, a London barrister, disliked caravans so much he was reported to have founded the Anti-Caravan Club.

• Caravan enthusiasts include Lorraine Kelly, Gail Porter, Patsy Palmer and James Bond wannabe and Spooks star Rupert Penry-Jones.

• Another fan, Margaret Beckett, wrote the foreword to the book Teach Yourself Caravanning while she was foreign secretary.

• The Caravan Club claims fewer than 0.1 per cent of crashes involve caravans.

• A German tourist had a shock this year when his caravan rolled 200 yards down a hill – while he was on the toilet. Juergen Winkler, 48, escaped with cuts and bruises after the vehicle crashed into a lamppost and then into a ditch while he was on holiday in Austria.

• A couple from Derby spent 15 years on a caravan tour of Britain's coast, with Ken and Pat Hatway visiting 1,670 sites on their 2,110-mile tour, which they completed in 2005.

TOP TEN

Top ten potential caravan hotspots:

1 M6/A6 near Kendal
2 A27 near Chichester
3 A35 near Charmouth
4 A11 near Thetford Forest
5 M4 near Swindon
6 M6/A66 near Keswick
7 A69 around Haltwhistle
8 A494 near Bala, Wales
9 A12 near Lowestoft
10 A9 towards Inverness

Source: Autoglass

Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 18 July 2008 9:26 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 19/07/2008 00:12:29

"Are you crazy about caravans"

Certainly NOT!

I only once "Towed a Caravan", this may sound 'crazy' but it was with my ex, as part of our 'Honeymoon',.

Well it was 'Hellish' I Borrowed a 'top-of-the-range' Posh Petrol guzzler, but it did not help, having this monstosity behind you, as for parking!...,

.....You know what constipation feels like! :((

Anyhow the Caravan was old and cold, needless to say, one night was enough!

Maybe this is why my, 'ex',..is..my..'ex'! :DD

(cant remember seeing the double :DD's that night!,,OH the pun!)
2

Darien,

Panama 19/07/2008 00:25:39
Who cares. Non story.
3

Dr. James Wilkie,

Vienna 19/07/2008 00:30:27
i can tell a different tale. For years I towed my big and luxurious caravan all over Scotland and Europe, and the only reason it has now been relegated to a weekend pavilion is that the family is grown up and away. Having discovered Woman for the first time in the history of the human race, holidays with father no longer come into consideration.

I discovered that it was good for my nerves too if I kept off the main roads, and if I pulled in frequently to let any following vehicles past. There are plenty of routes where one can avoid seriously obstructing other traffic. Mind you, there are also places where the best of intentions will not suffice - try getting a ton and a half of caravan over the hills on the south Loch Carron Road without burning out your clutch. Stalling your engine in such a situation is an interesting experience. And, yes, I agree about the A9 - the summer traffic alone justifies dualling it all the way.


4

Darien,

Panama 19/07/2008 00:41:53
3 - gee its still a non story!
5

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 19/07/2008 01:04:07

Darien ~4,

"non story",?

Tell you something! it was a 'non start' for me!

How I managed to make 'Love' that night, with all the stress of a "Caravan", I will never Know! and NEVER Again!

Its like sad 'Train Spotters'! towing a "Caravan"!

The 4**** HOTEL! is a better move!
6

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 19/07/2008 01:07:30

#6 Transit Boy!

All very well!, But do you still intend, living in your "Transit",?

:))
7

The Trossachs Hasher,

19/07/2008 02:17:37
What a pathetic story. Did someone phone this in, as it hardly seems worth anyone's while actually coming into the office to file this story.

Or has someone pressed the wrong button and dragged something out of the archives by mistake?
8

brainyfurball,

19/07/2008 06:53:55
I suffer from caravanger as well - especially when towing my caravan and come up against another slower vehicle who refuses to allow overtaking.

I fully sympathise with people who get angry at caravaners who hold everyone else up.

However there are times when it is difficult to be helpful - I am thinking about the A96 where there are very few places to pull into - and where there are, sometimes, another vehicle right slap bang in the middle of the space. The A9 is pretty good and there is no excuse for a caravan creating a line of frustrated drivers.

On single track roads, could I request that car drivers either speed up a bit or pull in at the nearest passing place and let me and my caravan pass. Thank you!
9

brainyfurball,

19/07/2008 06:56:12
is another vehicle
10

lodger,

Highland 19/07/2008 07:33:08
what about cyclists two-abreast anger, tractoranger, I'm a young dick head in a fast car who overtakes stupidly and then turns off anger, 30 mph dodder in 60 mph road anger,I'm right on your bumper anger?
Really bad road design anger, poor road maintenance anger, cant read the signs because there are trees growing over them anger.
Driving should carry a warning - driving can seriously damage your health!
11

Col A,

Lewes 19/07/2008 08:00:20
Solution - introduce a £1,000 vehicle excise duty for all the pollution caravanners create by impeding traffic behind and failing to pull over frequently, despite the experience the considerate #3 describes and insist on an additional licence category/certificated training for those who tow the monstrosities!
By the way - any views on camper vans and their behaviour?
12

Uigman,

Isle of Skye 19/07/2008 08:35:17
What a pathetic article. A "filler" if ever there was one.
13

Boy Wonder,

19/07/2008 08:37:44
Who the heck let Chuckles Linskaill loose with a caravan on the roads!!!!

Caravans ... a blight on the roads!
14

GrahamH,

Edinburgh 19/07/2008 08:42:12
#2 and#13.

You both say is a non story - YET you both comment on it.

So perhaps (a)you will comment on anything just to get your name out or (b) the journo has got a response so it is a story worth a response or (c) you can't think of anything constructive to add for debate.

In response to part 3, perhaps in high death spots where people foolishly overtake caravans due to frustration, we need to look again at dual carriages or at least a minimum of passing places where motorists must by law pull in to allow overtaking once a specified number of vehicles are behind.
15

lulach mac gille coemgain,

19/07/2008 09:03:56
Everybody in the world is Flying in or out of Edinburgh Airport this year, baa have the story written already for Alistair Dalton - so there will be few people holidaying in caravans !
16

Upbeat,

19/07/2008 09:16:38
While people are suggesting silly solutions to this problem, I will suggest another ....

Restrict the hours that caravans may use key routes.

Some routes could be restricted for caravans and large hired camping vans. Leaving them free to travel these lifeline routes but only outside working hours.

Having recently travelled through the night back to Scotland from Dover, I can confirm there is very little traffic on Britains motorways after 7 pm and hardly any late at night. What better time for a caravan to travel ? If the driver gets a little tired they have their bedroom with them !
17

calum,

19/07/2008 09:28:31
I have a caravan at 1500kg MTPLM and a 4x4 at 2500kg kw. A well balanced well matched unit which is safe on any road and I hold no-one up. I've driven to Belgium, Holland, the south of France with it, round the Paris Autoroute system with it and you get a whole lot more respect from Continental drivers than British ones. I always keep an eye on those behind and pull over at regular intervals, even on the A96 and I encourage fellow caravanners to do the same. That said, do trucks do it? No. Do slow moving car drivers do it? No.
One plea to car driving "experts" above. Don't pull out suddenly to join traffic and don't overtake then slam on the brakes in front of me.
18

calum,

19/07/2008 09:30:51
#12 - the same could be said for most drivers - higher standards, better testing and more regular examinations to keep ALL idiots off the road. I take it you have all the IAM tickets to allow you to pass comment like that.
19

ConnorD,

19/07/2008 09:38:47
I have a caravan as well and take it for holidays here and at weekends. I visit Central Scotland, Fife and the Borders and spend my tourist pound at home. My money is spent in local shops, pubs, leisure, attractions etc. etc. and not bolstering the tourist industries in the Costas or Greek islands etc.
Some on these posts are a bit quick to condemn and they should think about that.
BTW, a pal of mine was hit with a late additional bill for £450 fuel surcharge for taking him, his wife and 2 kids to Florida - check the small print!!
20

Upbeat,

19/07/2008 09:44:27
re#19 "That said, do trucks do it?"

No Calum they may not.

But the difference is that the truck is most often being driven by a professional driver who is totally familiar with the machine they are driving. Years of experience gained by some professional drivers means that you can depend on them to drive considerately , and in a predictable way. They are balancing the need to achieve a schedule for clients with being the most highly regulated industry in the world.

The same ...sadly... is hardly true of caravaners on holiday. They, after all, are frequently in an unfamiliar sometimes unbalanced vehicle combination, being subjected to the combined stresses of a change in their daily normal routine, and the noise, distraction, and pressure from the rest of the family in the vehicle. The experience of other motorists is that the majority of caravans must be given a wide berth, for at first sight it is impossible to judge what type of driver may be behind the wheel. We know that when following caravans , practically anything can happen, usually without any reason or warning.
21

calum,

19/07/2008 09:52:25
......so that'll be why Drivers' Hours Regulations is one of the most flouted in the land and why there are regular stories of experienced drivers falling asleep at the whell resulting in catastrophy. I'm well qualified to drive my unit and expect that car drivers be the same. Sadly that is not the case and you know it. So judge everyone by your own high standards, eh.
Further, a recent survey conducted under the auspices of David Bellamy showed that, as a group, caravanners were the most eco-conscious is the UK when it came to recycling.
22

Drum Major,

Brisbane, Australia 19/07/2008 09:58:54
The caravans are not the problem; the problem is the narrow roads and the lack of places for cars, let alone caravans to pull over to let people pass. We have 10 times more caravans on our roads but they are not a problem to other motorists. I don't pull one as I prefer to stop in motels (one day you will have them too), but I never have problems getting past them. My 1st visit was in 1978 when there was room to move on UK roads. When I was there in 2005 the roads had not improved but you had double the traffic with much larger trucks and buses navigating through villages. You don't need a motorway to bypass a village, an ordinary road will do. That will get the trucks and coaches out of the village / town. Quaint just becomes frustrating after a while. Obviously if you live there and must deal with this traffic every day you should be angry, not with the other drivers but with governments and councils that have neglected the roadways. Roads should have passing lanes to allow traffic to pass slow moving vehicles on hills. UK drivers find driving on Australian roads less stressful. Unfortunately some find relaxing to much can be fatal. I'll be back next year see if you can have the roads fixed in time for me. Ta!!
23

,

19/07/2008 10:09:54
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
24

The Jannie,

Out there towing his caravan - try and catch me 19/07/2008 10:22:50
This is classic easy/lazy journalism; take an Autoglass press release and bulk it with more non-news to fit the empty space. The press release is quality, too - a survey of 500 out of how many million motorists?
25

Upbeat,

19/07/2008 10:41:10
Calum re 23

So when the going gets tough change the argument ;-)

Eco conscious indeed ! does that mean we should overlook the road behaviour question ?

Driving hours and the number of HGV accidents compared with other types of vehicle per thousand KM have little to do with the wide berth that most other road users find it wise to give to caravans.

No comment from you on my suggestion #18 of restricting caravans to driving on key routes only after working hours. No opinion ? None ?

Let's stick to the caravan topic shall we ? you'll get more than you bargained for if you take this discussion off into some illogical red herring about HGV standards and driving regulations for Goods Haulage operators .....a huge topic which is not part of this article at all.
26

sonofhamish,

edinburgh 19/07/2008 10:57:26
Best solution, pick up a ex MOD shoulder mounted rocket launcher and put it on the bonnet of my car...
27

danbob,

19/07/2008 11:01:12
Some off us older ones may well remember the public information films of the seventies. One in particular was to encourage slow vehicles like tractors and caravans to pull over when they could to let faster moving vehicles through. Unfortunatly times have changed and even if they showed these films again the selfish attitude of road users would deem them worthless. Perhaps if people planned a little longer for their journey and lost their affliction for speed the problem would be easier to deal with. On the positive side 10mph slower will do wonders for your petrol bills.
28

Peter Parkinson,

St. Leonards on Sea 19/07/2008 11:14:21
Living in a small caravan for 3 weeks at a time whilst at University helped me, towing is not a problem the legal limit is the speed most cars and caravaner drive.
When the cost of hotels and public transport comes down then we will go on holiday by bus etc.
Caravaners contribute to the economy.
I made a video called Freedom of the Road for my University work about caravanning.
29

Russell M,

Stirling 19/07/2008 11:36:40
Caravans are unwieldy, unstable and driven by amateurs. Not a good starting point. The issue totally ignored by the commentary is the problem of the two-tier speed limit. Only the egocentric think a two-tier system is workable, like feudalism that has existed in Britain since 1066, it only insures a simmering discontent which boils over occasionally. Then the immoral nanny-state feels vindicated in imposing even more regulation. Misconceived law - reaction - misconceived law, when does this spiral toward an Orwellian state end?
30

Broddr,

19/07/2008 12:12:56
Why is it that getting behind the wheel of a car turns most people in to inconsiderate, arrogant, selfish and impatient idiots?

The roads are for everyone, no matter what speed they are going. Show a little courtesy and patience and overtake when there is a safe place to do so.

Caravans should not be allowed! Why the hell not? What next? No buses, lorries, cyclists, people, other cars?

You don't get folk walking down a high street behind a elderly woman with shopping bags screaming and yelling for her to get out of the way, walking as close as possible behind her and trying to elbow the way past. It doesn't happen (much) so why should motorists behave differently?

It is shocking how people behave on the roads and for what? Getting to the traffic lights a cars length before someone else, saving 30 seconds on the journey.

Like speed cameras, why do people complain? "Oh boo hoo, it's not fair, I should be able to break the law if I want to!"

100%, guaranteed way of never, ever getting a speeding ticket. DON'T SPEED.
31

,

19/07/2008 12:15:31
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
32

Evan Owen,

Snowdonia 19/07/2008 12:23:06
Caravans should have to pay VED and be subject to an MOT.
33

hud of sleat,

west yorkshire 19/07/2008 12:49:54
I have read the comments above with intrest. I have been caravening for a very long time and I must admit some so called caravaneers do wind me up. Its like a bad apple in a bag, that you will never stop. My veiws on this subject are as follows:-
1) He who disagrees must be a bad apple.
2) To tow a caravan you should take a second test, HGV drivers do.
3) All caravans should have an MOT.
4) Cars and caravans should be graded, and if you don't have a match when towing, the police should be able to fine and put the caravan of the road.

Need I have to say more. We must admit that number 4 is the main reason for everybodies nightmare and the cause of this topic.
34

calum,

19/07/2008 13:15:47
#36 - For my part, I am IAM qualified, CC caravan course qualified, GEM member and many years experience. I have an outfit which is, all fully laden, a 70% match (no doubt Upbeat will explain the significance of MTPLM, MIRO and weight ratios since he is an expert) and my caravan is serviced and "tested" every year. I actually agree with much of what you say because I have taken the trouble to do it, why not others. Equally, I would have ALL drivers re-tested every 5 years because of the appalling standards shown, in the main, by car drivers on our roads.
But Upbeat wishes to limit caravan to restricted hours - why not other slow moving vehicles like tractors and HGVs (its been mooted before). Strangely, the A9 (like the A7, A68, A82 etc. ) is a designated Tourist route so if caravanners aren't tourists what are they? Are they only meant to be on it in the dark?
As for the going getting tough Upbeat, don't make me laugh. You were the one who claimed that HGV drivers were the example to follow, not me.
#33 - Totally agree. I don't know what it is about some people that when they get behind the wheel of a car they turn into some kind of inconsiderate, aggresive, insensitive idiot with no thought for anyone else.
35

Upbeat,

19/07/2008 13:51:42
Calum ,

We were not questioning your personal ability ( or even presuming the lack of it ;-)

The post I made orignially was a light hearted "silly suggestion " with a kernel of truth about it. If you don't believe this, perhaps you would care to read again my first sentence in #17 .

You then introduced Truck drivers into the discussion with a complaint that drivers of heavy vehicles, and some others, also caused queues. It was pointed out to you why this should be left out of the discussion about caravans. The level of uncertainty that following motorists experience when following any caravan is at the heart of the issue. Folowing traffic cannot see around the caravan properly, and because of the nature of the "beast" they have no idea what is towing it, or how experienced/inexperienced the Caravan driver may be. The same is true of most motor homes and light vans. It is possible for anyone qualified before 1996 holding a standard car licence to venture out onto the highway in a vehicle combination exceeding 3.5 tons with no experience of maneovering a large vehicle through traffic at all. This is another area of the present law, alongside Police " blindeye tactics" over the possession of a trailer pass certificate, that could be addressed.

But be assured...if you in you caravan head off to Belgium, Holland and the South of France..traverse Paris via the preriphique you will find it so much easier to do this at night, after the workaday traffic has subsided.People will applaud your wuisdom , and one less caravan will confornt those who need to get about their daily lives in the regions quaintly termed 'Holiday destinations'....as if no one who lives there actually matters at all. !

So... part of any proposed course of training for anyone who might wish to couple a caravan, or drive a motorhome, should be route selection. Travelling by night makes more sense than banning caravans from certain lifeline routes by day. But it is the reverse side of t
36

Upbeat,

19/07/2008 13:52:15
Calum , contd:
But it is the reverse side of the same coin. The status quo for Holiday caravans on Britain's inadequate and poorly maintained road system , really does require further consideration.
37

,

19/07/2008 14:20:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
38

William L,

Magalia 19/07/2008 14:26:17
It seems that the love affair between drivers and their vehicles has reached the point that a driver and his car are so "involved" that when he turns on the ignition, the car turns off his brain!

As for testing and certifying drivers, the training must begin with reading and understanding. Near my home here in the foothills is a road that leads to the mountains. At a turn-around spot is a notice posted: "Vehicled having more than 25 feet between front and rear axles are prohibited." Guess how often am oversize motorhome or inappropriate car/trailer combo has to be rescued.(At considerable expense and much frustration!)
39

calum,

19/07/2008 15:16:52
Upbeat, I never complained that HGVs created queues but the simple fact is that slower moving traffic, which includes HGVs, DO hold up traffic. That is fact, not a complaint, and is why they(and carvans and other classes) are prohibited from Lane 3 in 3 lane motorways. Slower moving traffic CAN be beanned from certain roads at certain times of the day by a TRO (like round Newcastle, for example, where JCBs are prohibited during rush hour, but not HGVs or caravans who are limited to 50mph generally!
Thank you for your advice about Paris but I am very familiar with the roads network round Paris having driven there many times, with and without caravan, and I have never encountered the discourtesy seen on British roads. I generally use the Peripherique d'Il de France rather than the Boulevard Peripherique (most commonly called the Peripherique by those less familiar with the network). Anyway, extending your proposal would mean avoiding the Edinburgh City By-pass, Anderson Drive in Aberdeen and the Glasgow network presumably - and the alternatives are? Mmmm, a bit of a shortfall there, I fear.
Anyway, I will support your "suggestion" if it applies to all slow moving traffic but, for example, isn't the Edinburgh by-pass built just for that? For road users to By-pass Edinburgh? The problem seems to lie with commuter traffic using the By-passes as localised shortcuts rather more than traffic travelling any distance. Equally, I would also support more stringent testing of drivers of all descriptions, including caravans and HGVs, PCVs etc..
Be assured, however, if you are travelling behind me on, for example, the A9, I continue to travel at the appropriate LEGAL speed for the class of vehicle (Transit drivers please note!) and continue to check any build up behind whereupon I will pull over to allow traffic to clear. Paragon of bloody virtue! And what thanks do you get in Britain? Shaken fists, obscenities, arm waving etc.. No, the problem with caravanning lies
40

calum,

19/07/2008 15:20:24
not with caravanners but with the boy-racer mentality exhibited by many drivers and encouraged by the worst of them, Jeremy Clarkson, the illegitimate son of Paddington Bear!
41

Biggar Mac,

19/07/2008 15:22:54
The people who want caravans restricted to particular times probably also want no dogs/children/grannies/smokers or any other minority you care to name restricted in their rights too.

The courses run by The Camping & Caravanning Club and the Caravan Club should be more widely advertised and taken by caravanners as they also get you a reduction on your caravan insurance.

Too many car drivers seem to put their brains in the glove compartment when they take to the roads. They pass in the stupidest places and then don't get a move on causing hold-ups themselves. When they park in laybyes they park right in the centre leaving no room for long units to pull in.

Off course I, like everyone else, think of myself as the best driver in the universe!
42

GlenB,

19/07/2008 16:22:50
Rather tragic that today on the A9 near Dalwhinnie two people were killed in an accident involving a caravan.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/default.stm
43

Upbeat,

19/07/2008 16:29:36
Calum,Thank you ...

I would be interested in your views about one central point in # 38 one that in your haste to give a geography lesson to those less familiar with Paris, you appear to have overlooked : " you will find it so much easier to do this at night, after the workaday traffic has subsided.People will applaud your wisdom , and one less caravan will confront those who need to get about their daily lives in the regions quaintly termed 'Holiday destinations'....as if no one who lives there actually matters at all. ! "

Is it not true that it will take you much less long to travel into Edinburgh, through / around Glasgow, through Aberdeen or negotiate Paris Munich, Geneva or Rome during the hours outside worktime.

For example leave the south of the Netherlands heading twoards the Randstadt. The journey begun between 5.30 am and 7.30 am will take around 2 hours less than if you leave just 45 minutes later .

Leave Aachen and head towards Koln. The same is true. Head towards Basel from Zurich on a Friday evening and it might take you well over two hours to reach the Weil am Rhein border. ( a midday journey of little more than an hour by car. )

The point about "caravanger" is that local people everywhere, going about their work and their lives find too many caravans dawdling along on holiday, when they are trying to get about . First there is the resentment that these holidaymakers are in no hurry,enjoying their right to travel peacefully because they have time off,.... secondly there is the perception that caravanners had no real NEED to be on that particular road at that exact time. So when you graciously, and commendably pull over to let them past you will still attract finger waving etc , because YOU have the time to wander about at leisure..but THEY consider that they are missing an appointment, or a delivery schedule, while trundling along "in your wake" .and that this is somehow your fault.

Travel out of peak hours and the aggr
44

Upbeat,

19/07/2008 16:30:03
Calum,Thank you ...



Travel out of peak hours and the aggravation is minimised. Would you not agree ? Besides... early starts in Summer take place during the best most uncongested part of the day.... anywhere.... everytime !






45

Upbeat,

19/07/2008 16:34:35
GlenB #45 Thank you for posting this.

This event is a particularly sorry one in view of the less tolerant comments made by some on this topic here today.
46

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 19/07/2008 17:42:04
Caravans have their pros and cons, & I'm sure most people can sympathise ot at least have empathy with both sides.

As for Jeremy Clarkson, I'm sick of him and his facile opinions. He's a shallow, unthinking twerp - and his popularity gives me great cause for concern for the mental health of the nation. I've yet to hear a well-reasoned argument out of this adaman.
47

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 19/07/2008 17:52:26
Hired motor homes are popular in Australia and New Zealand, in particular the "Maui" type. They have never really caught on in the UK, maybe because the market would be too seasonal for car hire companies to make a profit? There are other options too, such as those tents that fold out from trailers and even fold-out, roof-rack mounted tents. The big challenge for car manufacturers though, is to make a vehicle that can be reconfigured at home - a cab with an interchangeable rear section. Maybe such a vehicle already exists?
48

celtic4,

USA 19/07/2008 19:55:28
Makes no difference to me....I will be in Scotland next year, but will not get a caravan, and it makes no difference if one is behind me, or in front of me, as long as they do not run INTO me.
49

calum,

19/07/2008 19:59:28
Sorry, Upbeat, no logic in what you say. I actually agree with some aspects of what you are trying to say but sadly you lapse into the blinkered anti-everything but you expert motorist view. Sad, really.
Clearly, you do not know your way round Paris, Aberdeen or anywhere else given your "stats" because they are nonsense. Plan the route, drive the plan, have a contingency and everything is OK. Been there, done it, got the medal.
Anyway, clearly you have a jaundiced view and nothing will change that. Sad for you, poor driver (if at all).
50

Paul Spencer,

Glasgow 19/07/2008 20:29:45
Having just come back from Up north the level of driving by these folk is appalling
51

Yankee girl,

California 19/07/2008 20:33:21
As an owner of one of these and living across the pond, I'll chime in and say that route selection is a priority. We don't want to slow anyone else down any more than they want to be slowed down! I drove in Scotland several years ago and there seemed to be a plethora of single-track roads. I can see where this would be a REAL challenge for someone towing a caravan - or RV as we call them.
52

beentheredonethat,

western usa 19/07/2008 20:38:30
here in my state we have a 5 car pullover rule. if you are a slow vehicle and have 5 or more vehicles behind, you must pull over and let them pass. there aren't many laybys in scotland, but when there are, folks don't seem to use them for this reason. perhaps it would be a good ide.
non story for those who aren't caravaning or behind caravans.
at the same, time will your life be over if you happen to have to spend a little extra time "slowing down"
53

Upbeat,

19/07/2008 20:39:37
Calum,

"So when the going gets tough change the argument ;-) "

Again, but this time attack the person you are discussing this with ;-)

You should not do this, for you can really have very little knowledge about those you meet here, unless you frequently 'engage ' with them on Scotsman boards.

No logic ? ...no just the logic based on 35 years 2 million miles in the Road haulage industry across Europe and in some 20 other countries worldwide.

No experience of Paris ? Only regular delivery trips into and around that city spread over 12 years, during the 1990's . No knowledge of Aberdeen ???? Oh dear ......what has that city to do with the Randstadt or Aachen - Koln ?

This, was a hint for you, also applying to Switzerland
...one you should have observed with more care.

No ...you have attempted to slide away from addressing the question repeated for you from post 38 by post 46.

Is it true that journeys out of peak times on less congested roads take less time ?

Have you never considered this ?

Which bit, of what you term "Logic", defeats your understanding of modern road conditions ?

Why do you consider my view jaundiced ? If you even realised the number of accidents involving caravans and car trailers that I have stumbled across on the roads of the world you would also be frightened ever to approach too closely to any caravan on the roads. Many are towed by a suitable vehicle in the hands of a suitably and correctly trained individual, thousands are not. The trouble, as I have said repeatedly above, is that a motorist travelling in the wake of any caravan has not the slightest idea about the qualities of the towing vehicle ahead of him, or the competance of the drver.

I know you don't want to admit this is the case. But you don't seem to realise that this is precisely the reason I have gone on exploiting this point.

54

calum,

19/07/2008 21:07:36
#
56 - But no knowledge or the routes around Paris eh? Peripherique, eh? Can't even spell it, eh? Good one. Clearly you don't know your way round that one, eh?
Sorry, Upbeat, you talk cr*p and you have illustrated it well. Even your attempt at stats are cr*p ..... study the stats from the CC and then RHA .,.. say no more.
55

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 19/07/2008 21:09:33
Plenty of Grizwalds on here excusing themselves.

I think the article is a warning of what to expect.

Expect more Grizwalds on the roads this "summer". These people cannot afford cheap foreign holidays as they have caravans and overpriced house mortgages to pay. Neither can they afford accommodation in the UK for holidays. In a couple of years time they will be slinging tents in the back of the most affordable socially snobbish car they can afford.
56

danbob,

19/07/2008 22:05:30
I would like to ask a question of our caravan enthusiasts who have posted on here. Why do some caravaners not fit extended wing mirrors on to their cars. Can they really see where they need to see by using the cars fitted wing mirror? do they just not care? or are they oblivious to the need for wing mirrors?
57

Biggar Mac,

19/07/2008 23:58:30
It is a legal requirement that you must be able to see past the offside of any towed trailer. It is good practise to fit an extending mirror to the near side as well. Unfortunatly many caravans are used by people who havenot done the slightest amount of homework on how to tow safely. These are mostly the same people who are intolerant or other road users when driving solo.

With regard to the fatal accident on the A9, just because a caravan was one of the vehicles involved, it does not mean that the caravan was to blame.

A higher standard of driving by all road users would go a long way to making travelling a much better experience for everyone.
58

,

20/07/2008 07:40:42
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
59

Upbeat,

20/07/2008 09:19:05
Calum,

Such rudeness. and I thought you were the one who was offended when people gesticulated at you in your caravan.

Anyone can make typos in a blog...I do it all the time. In case you did not know the word peripherique refers to any ring road in France. That is why I used it.

You have not addressed even one point made in post 56. So it is now clear that if you set out to be a shining example of a caravanner , stating the case in defence of caravans, you have failed to explain your position at all well.

The road conditions distances and journey times around Europe to those who occasionally tour while on Holiday, is something to read in a book, or map . It is common knowledge to those that live there, and to those who make their living there. You do not say which of my "stats" you dispute. You do not know...but bluster for fear revealing this.

BTW where is the Randstadt ? Do you even know without Wikipedia to help ?

Sadly, your last post is typical of those who cannot debate reasonably. By the use of expletives your entire contribution here has been revealed as worthless.
60

calum,

20/07/2008 10:24:10
#62 - I am well aware of the term "peripherique" but it was you claimed to use "the preriphique" (sic)- referring to Paris - but you didn't say which one. Such an omission by an experienced driver of deliveries.
And by the "Randstadt"(sic) I assume you mean Randstad in The Netherlands linking Amsterdam, Rotterdam and The Hague (all without the help of your Wikipedia).
61

Upbeat,

20/07/2008 12:47:52
Calum.

Had you looked it up properly, which you really should have done if you want to impress us. ;- ) you would see that.... as well as deliberately spelling it wrong for a pedant like you to pick up on....which you failed to do,...the word randstad refers to a district within the Netherlands encompassed by four major Cities. not three as you claim.

The point you still are unwilling to discuss in my posts (that travelling outside peak hours...outside the working day...is always quicker,) is disappointing. Why don't you acknowledge this and show a bit of respect for the knowledge of others ? Does the thought that someone has great experience in traffic on major European routes into and out of most Eoropean cities and EU countries , as part of their daily work, throughout recent decades,surprise you. RHA stats indeed. Who needs them if you have covered hundreds of thousands of KM each year within Europe for decades.?

Just because I have driven into Johannesburg once or twice as part of my work it does not qualify me to be dismissive of the driving experience of others who have also been there. Just because I used to drive in my work through Herat and Kabul to Peshawar and on to Delhi and Jaipur regularly ,years ago, it does not qualify me to pontificate or be dismissive about these places today. The traffic into Sydney or Darwin today is just as congested as it was into Tunis years ago. Been there done that. Auckland has a congestion problem due to workday communting, as does Istanbul, Stuttgart Zurich and Hamburg. Been there too... and have first hand experience of thousands of other cities towns and industrial complexes. The truth is there for you to study and comment on. The fact that you cannot tolerate someone who dares to suggest a debate is overdue surrounding Caravans and their use in the UK , ....this has blinded you to all truth. Sad but enormously revealing.
62

calum,

20/07/2008 13:13:29
Eh? You spelled Randstad wrong deliberately for a motive which is incomprehensible? Are you alright?!
RHA (the representative body of Hauliers) stats are not needed? And that from a so-called professional driver?
Finally, whether you like it or not, the UK's drivers are the most disrespectful in Europe when it comes to caravanners and your alleged experience is, well, a barely constructed hot-potch of disconnected ramblings. Pitiful, but very revealing.
I'll leave you to your Wikipedia research to build your credence. Happy caravanning!
63

Upbeat,

20/07/2008 15:32:58
Calum...

And so .... after all this insult, and disrespect of the honesty with which I am prepared to discuss these things with you, you cannot stop posting here and yet still display blinkered ignorance of my main 'out of the work day' point.

As regards the rest of what you term 'ramblings'...this was to show you that you are really no expert at all. In the overall scheme of things you possess just a little bit of traffic compared with those who make their living on the Roads of the world. , that is all.

Do you always disbelieve what is told to you ? Or is it the case that you chose this easy option when challenged ...do you always judge the honesty of others by your own questionable standards ?

Who, here, has dared to insist- repeatedly - that British drivers are any more disrespectful of caravans than other Europeans...except you ? Do you not realise that the standard of highways in the other European places you "claim to" (...your words:) have driven, might have been a part of this ? . Do European engineers not build highways that allow more room and cause less inconvenience to traffic that is compelled to travel behind caravans, than the hopeless standard of many British A class roads. ? Why do you hate your fellow British motorists so much. ?
64

Upbeat,

20/07/2008 15:34:29


Word dropped out, sorry

..." bit of traffic experience compared with ".....
65

scotsdoc,

NANAIMO 20/07/2008 18:43:25

The real problem is that the roads need a complete 'REVAMPING'............Sure it will be expensive ...... but so what.......and you'll save fuel and have a more relaxed drive.
66

Harry Carnie,

British Columbia, Canada. 20/07/2008 20:07:45
Whatever the vehicle, a motorist is operating.
Courtesy and consideration for others sharing
the Highways/Motorways.

Sadly lacking on BOTH sides of the pond.
67

Douglas,

Bathgate 20/07/2008 22:30:47
Statistics show that caravans being towed by Transit pickups are invariably driven by John or his brother, John.
They can also lead to the mystery of the vanishing manhole covers being solved.
Should you require any tarmac for your drive, they can usually help with that too.

 

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