Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement

The hunt is On.
Sponsored by
Can you track down Scotland's wildest beastie?
 
 
Friday, 5th December 2008 Change Date

The Scotsman Digital Archive - Special Christmas Offer

Premium Article !

Your account has been frozen. For your available options click the below button.

Options

Premium Article !

To read this article in full you must have registered and have a Premium Content Subscription with the The Scotsman site.

Subscribe

Registered Article !

To read this article in full you must be registered with the site.

All Scotland's trains to get Saltire livery



Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 01 August 2008
SCOTLAND'S trains are to be rebranded with a permanent Saltire livery, The Scotsman can reveal. The "ScotRail – Scotland's Railway" branding will give the network its first-ever uniform look, sweeping away different colour schemes used in the east and west.
The move by Transport Scotland, the Scottish Government agency that is answerable to ministers, will be carried out during routine repainting to avoid extra costs.

Stations will also be overhauled, using a dark blue colour scheme and blue signs similar to those at Edinburgh Waverley and Glasgow Central.

However, the rebranding brought accusations that the SNP government was using the Saltire for "independence by creep". It has already been employed in a range of Scottish Government initiatives, such as Healthier Scotland and Safer Scotland.

Transport Scotland, whose own logo was inspired by the Saltire, stressed work on the new train design had started before the SNP came to power last year.

But the Labour MSP Lord George Foulkes said: "This is all part of the SNP's independence by creep.

"We saw this with the census question on whether people were Scottish or British, and rebranding the Scottish Executive as the Scottish Government.

"They know they can't have a straight fight on it because they would lose hands down, so they try to brainwash people into independence instead with a strategy of incremental changes."

A Labour spokesman added: "This is typical of the SNP. People care about whether their train runs on time, not what colour it is painted. Repainting the rolling stock will be a huge waste of money.

"We have to ask whether the SNP is getting a government agency to use the Saltire for their own nationalistic aims, rather than for simple patriotic pride in Scotland, which we all share."

But the Conservatives applauded the plan.

A spokesman said: "We welcome this move, because it helps to reclaim the nation's flag from the narrow nationalism represented by the SNP.

"The Saltire and the Lion Rampant are for all of Scotland, not just people who want independence," he said.

"It is similar to the Union Jack being reclaimed from the BNP as a sign of patriotism, not nationalism."

Passenger watchdogs said the Saltire livery would reduce confusion and save money in the long term.

Robert Samson, the Scotland manager for Passenger Focus, said: "We can see value in not changing the branding every time the train operator changes.

"It will also help bring uniformity, because there is a mishmash of First ScotRail and Strathclyde Passenger Transport (SPT] liveries at present, and different signs all over the place at stations.

"The new livery gives Scotland's railways a national identity without being Nationalist."

Transport Scotland said the rebranding aimed to provide the country's railways with a livery that will not change each time a new company takes over.

The planned revamp is also to emphasise that the network is largely funded by taxpayers, rather than the private sector.

Gary Bogan, the head of franchise futures for Transport Scotland, said: "The current range of train liveries creates confusion in the minds of passengers about whose railway it is, and who is paying for it. It does not create a unified brand image.

"Changes in the franchise do not coincide with when we need to repaint trains. We aim to create a brand which is independent of the franchisee.

"We want people to make the same connection as red buses have with London and yellow buses have with schools."

However, the move will mean yet another repaint for the train fleet, the last of which was rebranded in the current First ScotRail livery only last month.

The new look is due to be launched next month to mark the 25th anniversary of the ScotRail name being coined by British Rail.

The "First" name on trains will be reduced in size and prominence, so it can be more easily replaced if another company takes over when the franchise ends in 2014. The £2 billion cost of the Aberdeen-based FirstGroup's current ten-year franchise to run trains is the Scottish Government's largest contract.

Yesterday, First ScotRail said it was happy that it would remain readily identifiable as the train operator as part of the rebranding.

Transport Scotland said the new ScotRail version of the Saltire had taken inspiration from the former British Rail's iconic double-arrow logo, which is still used as a symbol for stations.

The Saltire livery – which will also be extended to train interiors – will cover 260 trains across the country.

At present, trains in much of Scotland are painted in First's corporate blue, magenta and white livery.

The last two trains were overhauled with the new colours last month, replacing the ScotRail livery from the previous franchise four years ago.

However, most of First ScotRail's trains in Strathclyde, which carry two-thirds of the country's rail passengers, are still in carmine and cream – known as "blood and custard".

These are the colours of the former SPT, which had a controlling interest in ScotRail until two years ago.

Strathclyde Partnership for Transport, its successor body, has a much reduced role in the railways. However, the colour scheme still adorns many stations, along with "SPT Rail" signs on platforms.

The rebranding of Strathclyde's trains and buses has been controversial in the past, with the region's sectarian divisions attributing deeper meanings to the colours used.

In the 1960s, the old Glasgow Corporation revealed new green, white and gold double-deckers, shades with Irish Republican connotations. Then, with the arrival of SPT in the 1970s, the vehicles were painted orange – although the shade was officially "Strathclyde Red".


The full article contains 940 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 01 August 2008 8:16 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

AM2,

Scotland,UK 31/07/2008 22:42:31
Yes, the SNP’s cynical “gradualist” agenda will have been at work here. It’s rarely far below the surface.

That said, from what I can see it’s a great looking livery.

But moreover, the Tory spokesman’s comment is absolutely spot on. The SNP’s tactic will backfire. Any attempts to misappropriate either the Union Flag or the Saltire for narrow nationalistic purposes can never work, simply because our flags have such broad appeal that they’ll always be reclaimed by the majority.

As Annabel Goldie said last December: “Rejecting independence is not anti-Scottish or unpatriotic; it is quite simply wanting the best for our country. I say clearly to Alex Salmond … that the Scottish National Party does not have the monopoly on Scottish patriotism. It is a proud and deep emotion, shared by millions of people outwith the Scottish National Party. Our saltire and the lion rampant are the symbols of our nation, not the badges of nationalism.”
2

Annoyed with the SNP,

01/08/2008 00:02:58
Oh great. Ignore all manefesto promises on prescriptions, police and student debt. Dump responsibility for health, crime and education.

But paint the trains, buy new stationery for holyrood with a 100k sign and have an Islamfest.

Boy oh boy, the SNP really are a mickey mouse government of toy town.

Let's paint our trainset and put pretty signs up.
3

Jimmy Le Pie,

01/08/2008 00:04:43
What a surprise at who posted at #1

Would you rather have the Northern Irish flag on Scottish trains???

Sad, oh so sad.
4

,

01/08/2008 00:05:48
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
5

Rufus T. Firefly,

01/08/2008 00:05:51
Yes what a great use of public funds. Why waste money on an Islamfest when we can waste it on trains?
6

,

01/08/2008 00:08:19
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
7

Annoyed with the SNP,

01/08/2008 00:10:08
5 Firefly

Scotland under the new optimism of the SNP can find the money to waste on both things. (While finding their health, crime, education promiss unaffordable.)

Labour's mantra: The money's there so let's waste it.

SNP's mantra: The money's there so let's waste it.


We will have to spend cash painting them again when the SNP get kicked out. It's a form of grafiti. Painting slogan's and plitical messages in public infrastructure when you should be really be working for the people.
8

Annoyed with the SNP,

01/08/2008 00:11:39
6 Alberto

Labour are trouble, I agree.

But painting a train set. Can you explain how the SNP's paint job on their toys will help fuel poverty, cut crime, help students or the ill?

The SNP are the same as Labour. Willing to lie for power and squander our cash on pet projects they never told us about.
9

Jimmy Le Pie,

01/08/2008 00:14:32
Rufus and Annoyed

Are you the same troll?
10

South Gyle Prisoner,

Edinburgh 01/08/2008 00:17:11
Trains tend to get a repaint every 3 to 5 years anyway so as part of the planned maintenance.

So the paint to be used will be different from that already on them. The new paint would cost the same whether to replace it like for like or the new scheme. Get a grip on reality.
11

Shave,

Edinburgh 01/08/2008 00:18:34
"The new livery gives Scotland's railways a national identity without being Nationalist."
..and it looks fine
12

,

01/08/2008 00:18:43
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
13

,

01/08/2008 00:20:24
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
14

Darien,

Panama 01/08/2008 00:20:29
What have all you British Nationalists (aka Unionistas) got against the Saltire? Racist or what! Get used to it.
15

Fifi la Bonbon,

01/08/2008 00:21:17
Hoots, mon.
16

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 01/08/2008 00:21:53
a labour spokesperson says one thing, a tory one says another, I do wish these unionists would stop whinging, get rid of the chip on their shoulders and make their minds up one way or another.
17

Vivas,

Edinburgh 01/08/2008 00:22:25
Shock horror "trains to be painted blue" story from The Vizman...WTF !

And then they get a comment from Whiskey Galore to try and beef it up. LMFAO !

What a freekin' comic. Circulation must be below the 50K per day mark now, whens the redandancies ?
18

Resolutions,

01/08/2008 00:23:37
"Transport Scotland said the rebranding aimed to provide the country's railways with a livery that will not change each time a new company takes over.

The planned revamp is also to emphasise that the network is largely funded by taxpayers, rather than the private sector."

Now why should that be open to criticism? It will also be done as the trains come up for 'painting time'.

And "Transport Scotland, whose own logo was inspired by the Saltire, stressed work on the new train design had started before the SNP came to power last year."

So who is to blame for all the money wasting, so called claimed by those who like to create hot air? Personally speaking, it looks a lot smarter than the present livery.


19

Jimmy Le Pie,

01/08/2008 00:23:59
This is really another non story.

Any word on the extensive investigations that should be going on into an alleged fraud involving a former Glasgow MP??? It is alleged the sum involved is £750,000 or thereabouts.

It is alleged the ex MP made fraudulant expense claims.

It is also alleged that he was a New Labour Sleaze MP although no one ever heard him speak.

The Darwins, of canoe fraud fame, got 6 years each for fraudulant insurance claims for around £250,000.
20

Jock Politicaljunkie,

Glasgow 01/08/2008 00:24:41


One reason for all these unionists being able to post so quickly is that they clearly don't bother to READ THE ARTICLES. Their hatred of the SNP and of their country is blind to all the little things like FACTS.


"Transport Scotland, whose own logo was inspired by the Saltire, stressed work on the new train design had started before the SNP came to power last year."

and:

"Transport Scotland said the new ScotRail version of the Saltire had taken inspiration from the former British Rail's iconic double-arrow logo, which is still used as a symbol for stations."


DUH!!!


Though I must now grit my teeth and agree with one aspect of your post at #1 AM2 - it IS a good looking livery. And people might stop looking at me in a funny way over here in Glasgow when I refer to the "Blue Trains"!!!! (eh, that's the original North Clyde Electrics for any non train buffs out there!)

21

Mogwai Fear Santa,

01/08/2008 00:25:33
#10

Correct, and the story explicitly mentions this:

"The move by Transport Scotland, the Scottish Government agency that is answerable to ministers, will be carried out during routine repainting to avoid extra costs."

But don't that stop the more excitable North Brits from exploding in permarage.
22

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 01/08/2008 00:25:48

Come on Now!!

We all Love the 'School Uniform'!

I believe 'Asda' sell them for £4.00 a shot!
23

Shave,

Edinburgh 01/08/2008 00:26:29
This is about a common identity for Scotlands trains and aesthetics. Making party political points from this story merely shows fanaticism.
24

Peeablo,

UKSSR 01/08/2008 00:34:46
AM2 - YAWN !!!

Reds under the beds and all that, idiot !!!
25

Jock Scot,

East Lothian 01/08/2008 00:37:38
Does this mean the trains are all going to look like David Coulthard's helmet.

26

subrosa,

01/08/2008 00:38:32
# 7 'We will have to spend cash painting them again when the SNP get kicked out. It's a form of grafiti. Painting slogan's and plitical messages in public infrastructure when you should be really be working for the people."

Do you have difficulty reading anything longer than 2 lines?
'Transport Scotland, whose own logo was inspired by the Saltire, stressed work on the new train design had started before the SNP came to power last year.'

Wakey wakey.
27

Jwil,

01/08/2008 00:41:25
Great idea! It will remind all Unionists that their loyalty should be to Scotland first.
28

Senga Jean,

01/08/2008 00:45:18
WHAT A LOAD OF UNIONIST CLAPTRAP IS THIS? I mean the comments not the story. Anything that brings pride in being Scottish including DC's helmet is GOOD. Get over it!
29

Jwil,

01/08/2008 00:47:22
But the Labour MSP Lord George Foulkes said: "This is all part of the SNP's independence by creep.

"We saw this with the census question on whether people were Scottish or British, and rebranding the Scottish Executive as the Scottish Government.

"They know they can't have a straight fight on it because they would lose hands down, so they try to brainwash people into independence instead with a strategy of incremental changes."

Thanks for that George. You hope!
30

,

01/08/2008 00:47:44
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
31

Jimmy Le Pie,

01/08/2008 00:48:53
All buildings should have to fly the Saltire, by law!!!
32

Nevsky,

Moscow 01/08/2008 00:56:43
The article states this had nothing to do wuth the SNP and was started before they came to power and also that it will cost nothing extra. It's a train livery...doesn't anyone read the article before posting?

AM2! Who gives a c88p what Goldie thinks...independence is coming and the union flag will be consigned to history and she knows it.

Stating you are not unpatriotic and want the best for Scotland is fine UNLESS you know for a fact that staying in the Union is to the detriment of your country and your people (Glasgow East). Then you are not a patriot but indeed a disgrace to your country.

So yes you are ALL unpatriotic and curiousely (unlike any other country in modern Europe) you revel in it!
33

Nevsky,

Moscow 01/08/2008 01:02:54
I wonder if Norway has such whining losers who comment on putting their flag on a train? I doubt any country in Europe or the world would but them we are in Scotland aren't we...the land of the cringing Unionist Jock!
34

,

01/08/2008 01:08:56
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
35

Annoyed with the SNP,

01/08/2008 01:09:29
33 Nevsky

"But we are in Scotland aren't we"

No, you are in Moscow, Russia?

Forgotten which moniker to use you SNP troll?!
36

CLX,

01/08/2008 01:16:04
#33,
I believe you have rattled the unionist support on here.
Like AM2, #35 has no idea of arguement. Just refer to them as sherman tankers and you'll be fine :L

It takes free thinkers to see beyond the union....They will obviously feel left out come the day...Hang tight...
37

,

01/08/2008 01:18:25
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
38

Iainbroch,

Moray 01/08/2008 01:21:29
I could not care less if the trains were painted green with orange spots. If a train needs a lick of paint then it needs a lick of paint - what it does not need is lickspittle Cyber Pimps throwing a hissyfit.

Liebaahs history in respect of the rail network is not exactly covered in Glory now is it? As the same lickspittles stand back and utter not a hoot at network rails obscene profits! Twa faced or what?
39

CLX,

01/08/2008 01:25:08
Ubernumptie..like it a lot.........waiting for replies....holding breathe.....nope, nothing yet...
40

,

01/08/2008 01:27:03
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
41

Shave,

Edinburgh 01/08/2008 01:28:20
#39 Iainbroch
Green with orange spots would make the trains look like a rusting bogey ;-)
42

Nevsky,

Moscow 01/08/2008 01:32:22
35:

I have one moniker unlike a few Unionists here tyring in desperation to bolster their numbers.

Scotland, sad to say IS the only country in Europe i can think of with such snivelling people as the unionists we have in Scotland.

Every detail or anything of any benefit to or anything with the name Scotland attached is immediately moaned about, whined at, ridiculed and critisised.

I would like them to name just one other country in Europe where people like this exist? There are of course none. Just Scotland where the embarassement of the cringing Unionist Jock still thrives.

No brains, no bottle, no aspiration and no hope they offer nothing to anyone apart from the ridicule and belittling of their own country.

43

a proud doonhamer,

Dumfries 01/08/2008 01:36:31
All this gnashing of teeth by the unionist dinosaurs and their hero, the red Baron Zebedee, only confirm what has been patently obvious to most of us.

Everytime they see the Saltire, they start to froth and foam at the mouth and cannot control themselves. Hate is a terrible thing, lads, do try to get over it.
44

,

01/08/2008 01:36:36
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
45

,

01/08/2008 01:37:26
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
46

a proud doonhamer,

Dumfries 01/08/2008 01:40:35
46

The only Brit I know about has the last name, Spears.

All the rest is unionist fantasy. We are Scots. Our neighbours are English, Welsh, and Irish.

Show all of us the respect we are due and stop trying to involve us in your surreal fantasies.
47

Annoyed with the SNP,

01/08/2008 01:45:59
47

No, you are British, you may not like that.

Some people struggle with accepting they were born a man and have surgery to cut it off.

I guess they are just confused, a bit like you.

But you are British.
48

,

01/08/2008 01:46:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
49

Iainbroch,

01/08/2008 01:47:13
re 42
Oh well! rusting bogey it is then - as long as it get me from a to b safely and in time.

re 41, I guess you are just another gobby little Britisher?
50

Nevsky,

Moscow 01/08/2008 01:48:12
46:

Never said anything of the sort. What i said was that people like you are to most independent minded Scots a complete embarassement as witnessed by the petty and manic postings on these boards.

As for greatness witness Glasgow East for how great the Union has been to Scotland recently..yes there is greatness indeed!

Its not Brits moaning..you are moaning about your country's flag being on a train...would even the English complain if the St George's cross was on their trains..i doubt it.

I have yet to see one post with regard to what the union has to offer Scotland from any unionist, you are all cringing no-hopers as far as i can see with nothing to offer..treading water until you inevitably sink...gone and forgotton for good!
51

Annoyed with the SNP,

01/08/2008 01:51:32
51

More vaccious platitudes. When will you stop?

Painting a flag on a train, please explaint to me what benefit this is to Scotland? Sure the trainspotters at SNP HQ may get a bit of wood, but it won't effect anyone in any meaningful way.

1,000 police officers instead of painting trains, changing sings and having an Islamicfestival. That is what Scotland wants and needs. Pity Alex Salmond is so out of touch.
52

a proud doonhamer,

Dumfries 01/08/2008 01:55:26
What cheek, now we have a unionist dinosaur telling us that we are not Scots.

Call yourself what you want, but when you take away my right to be Scot, you had better not be standing in front of me, or my Scottish boot will definitely provide you with the gender change to which you refer.

Do any of the other unionist dinosaurs want to agree with our tragic lad or are you Scots who support the union?
53

Edward,

01/08/2008 01:55:44
I hate to rain on the unionists parade
But this has nothing to do with the SNP or the Scottish Government
Lets take a reality check and realise that SCOTRAIL is not run by the Scottish Government, nor is it under some mystic control of the SNP
SCOTRAIL is a Private francise company owned and operated by FirstGroup
Their decision to rebrand all the rolling stock is entirely down to SCOTRAIL, so please get a grip!
54

Edward,

01/08/2008 01:57:47
Its interesting to see this paper blatently mis reporting when it states 'The move by Transport Scotland, the Scottish Government agency' erm sorry branding and painting the rolling stock of SCOTRAIL is entirely down to , guess who, SCOTRAIL!!!
55

Nevsky,

Moscow 01/08/2008 01:57:53
At least i don't post c**p like this do i?

'Imagine a little girl of 7. Now imagine Alex Salmond tatooing a salire on her face to remind her unionist parents of Scotland.

Is this good? Your comments appear to support Alex Salmond's right to abuse little girls.'

Quite a disgusting thing to post! Pleased with your contribution?
56

Kent2,

01/08/2008 01:58:29
#49 Apologies AM2, you never said that, it was Annabel Goldie that you were actually quoting in support of your statement “…our flags have such broad appeal…”

If you are a Unionist from the North of Ireland, how come you think the Saltire is your flag? Surely you have your own flags?
57

Edward,

01/08/2008 02:04:26
'A Labour spokesman added: "This is typical of the SNP. People care about whether their train runs on time, not what colour it is painted. Repainting the rolling stock will be a huge waste of money'
Labour must be quite thick! Its a private company thats rebranding and bringing all the rolling stock under one brand, just normal business practice
58

The Pict.,

Canada 01/08/2008 02:05:23
JIMMY THE PIE. Naw Jimmy AM2 wants the English flag of St .George.
slainte mhath.
59

Annoyed with the SNP,

01/08/2008 02:06:30
56

An SNP madman said the saltire was always good when visible. I thought I'd pursue that to its illogical conclusion.

Doonhammer. You are British, accept that. You can also be Scottish, but legally and culturally you are British. Go Team GB in 2012!

Typical nationalist resorting to threats of violence over a flag. Nationalism is the same the world over.
60

bill inch,

EDINBURGH 01/08/2008 02:06:59
Edward bernys
61

Guga II,

Rockall 01/08/2008 02:09:04
#1 AM Squared.

I see you are also posting under yet another troll name (in this case as per #52).

You still haven't answered my question. Why are you, as an Irishman, so keen on keeping Scotland under the English colonial yoke?
62

Guga II,

Rockall 01/08/2008 02:11:42
Forfoulkesake, Lard George has been rolled out again by the Hootsmon to provide some more anti-SNP comment. He must be on a nice little earner from them.
63

,

01/08/2008 02:15:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
64

Steve,

Bo'ness 01/08/2008 02:41:13
Yeah, lets burn the saltire now!
It's a dangerous political symbol!

We should replace it with a union flag in every garden!
And Britishness Day!

FFS.
65

Steve,

Bo'ness 01/08/2008 02:43:53
60, what about British nationalism? I suppose it's ok to murder people and steal their countries from them?
66

Annoyed with the SNP,

01/08/2008 02:56:44
66

No Steve, that would go against international law.

Like Great Britain like totally like beat the Nazis you know, with like the USA and Russia and stuff, you know? And they like totally set up international permanent security councils and like the UN was founded and that and like Great Britain is so totally involved in these things dude.

The SNP and Salmond are cowards though like, you know? They would like totally not get involved in these international organisations because they totally want to spend the omeny on partying dude, like par! tay!.

Dude, you totally know about politics and stuff, I haven't like had a deep conversation about like murdering folks and stealing their countries in like weeks dude.

Like, dude, who would win a fight, a panda or a siberian tiger?
67

Arthur G,

Glasgow 01/08/2008 03:03:23
#49 Kent2

"...#1 AM2, please correct me if I am wrong but I thought you were a Unionist from the North of Ireland?"

"North of Ireland?" Is that not what Irish Republicans (well, the one's who still prefer the bullet to the ballot box) call Northern Ireland? Also, those who refer to the Union Flag as a 'Butcher's apron', yet another steal from the same source.

I look forward to Scotland achieving its independence without having to resort to the rhetoric of those who were entirely comfortable with murdering their fellow citizens in great numbers in order to achieve their goal.
68

Arthur G,

Glasgow 01/08/2008 03:08:15
#60 AWTSNP

"You are British, accept that. You can also be Scottish, but legally and culturally you are British..."

No. Doonhamer is British and Scottish but culturally he is definitely Scottish.
69

Annoyed with the SNP,

01/08/2008 03:10:12
69 Arthure G

Is that why he speaks and writes in English?

You know in the SNP you may not recognise speech and mainstream media as culture, but here in the real world.
70

Beth Boyle,

NY 01/08/2008 03:17:27
Looks handsome anyway you look at it!
71

Statsman,

Edinburgh 01/08/2008 03:17:45
AM2 is a unionist brownosing troll. If he loves England so much, he should move there. Traitor.
72

Beth Boyle,

NY 01/08/2008 03:27:38
#72 No statesman would talk that way! Anyway its great as the Saltire is a Christian Symbol and perhaps some of these atheists will turn back to God at some point with that symbol forever etched on their minds! It is after all Saint Andrew's Cross! Getting back to Scottish roots means getting to the kirk on Sundays!
73

Rufus T. Firefly,

01/08/2008 03:34:01
If they had decided to paint the trains in the design of a Union Jack then I am sure none of the Natz would have minded. Would they?
74

Rufus T. Firefly,

01/08/2008 03:35:48
Hey Doonhomer . .Rule Britannia.
75

Arthur G,

Glasgow 01/08/2008 03:55:49
#70 AWTSNP

It's 'Arthur, no 'e' and I'm not a member of the SNP never have been, never will be.

As for speaking English making one 'culturally British' that is a non sequitur. English has not been the universal language of England (or what is now geographically accepted as England now for a large period of that country's existence. The Jutes, Angles & Saxons all of whom invaded from different areas of what would now be called 'Germany' spoke German ('Hoch' und 'platt'). Then there was Old Norse and of course, there were the Norman French speakers, the language that became the 'court' language of England. The eradication of the other languages of the land, Cornish, Cumbrian etc took a long time.

Scotland , too had and has a mixture of tongues, and Gaelic was never out national language any more so than, Lallans, Doric, Ullans and so on. And that is without mentioning the Anglic (Anglian or English) sub divisions that were and are spoken in Scotland and can be broadly termed ‘Scots’

In short, stating that someone is ‘culturally British’ because he or she speaks an Indo-European-Germanic-Anglo-Frisian tongue know as ‘English’ places one on pretty shaky ground.
76

Beth Boyle,

NY 01/08/2008 04:15:26
It cannot be denied that the isles all have a common history and because you all are on an big Island with lots of little ones around the edges everything is connected and very integrated. To say that there is no relationship is silly. There has been much intermarriage and much shared. Fighting like this is really daft.
77

tartangladbach,

edinburgh 01/08/2008 04:20:33
"They know they can't have a straight fight on it because they would lose hands down, so they try to brainwash people into independence instead with a strategy of incremental changes." georgie foukesy no danger you'd get brainwashed george, you'd need to grow a brain first!
78

CASEY PURVIS,

WEST HILLS 01/08/2008 04:31:19
i guess anyone who doesn't like Scotland or scottish ways is free to leave.
i mean i sure wouldn't tell them they could not go!!
casey purvis
79

Virgil,

West Vancouver 01/08/2008 04:48:40
Will this help to improve service and keep them running on time?
80

tartangladbach,

edinburgh 01/08/2008 04:54:41
i'm sure foukesy and co will be even more dramatic in the weeks leading up to a referendum! although i'm sure their policy will now be no referendum! (at the moment) then when the new leader can't last 5 minutes, margret curran will be up to the plate with a bring it on! then they'll lose the referendum! and be claiming all along that's what they always wanted the will of the people! labour is finished! the only people who don't know it, is labour, BNP and the orange lodge!
81

Robert Matheson,

Sierra Madre 01/08/2008 04:54:57
I cannot believe Scotland has so many cynics critical of this move. Good grief, those of us of Scottish ancestry abroad are proud of the Saltire! To have it as the livery of the nation's railway is perfectly appropriate. My family started as Scots, became Canadians, and became Americans. You may very well be British by politics, but be glad your a Scot by blood.
82

donald anderson it's me,

01/08/2008 05:06:30
So Labour creeps will be flying to London with Union Jack tails then?
83

viking nz,

new zealand 01/08/2008 05:19:01
Great to see we all are divided as usual , all this in fighting over a SCOTTISH COLOUR cant beleive it . yes only in SCOTLAND , united my ----.
84

chippie lover,

Train shed... 01/08/2008 05:22:27
Personally I couldn't care less what colour scheme they use. The only issue I have is that fact is First will still be running the trains and giving the subsidies they receive to their shareholders, most of whom probably do even live in Scotland.
85

Rufus T. Firefly,

01/08/2008 07:13:38
#82 Robert . . 'be glad you are a Scot by blood'.

Why? What difference does it make? Apart from having a higher chance of catching Multiple Sclerosis that is.
86

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 01/08/2008 07:17:35
Who is this guy lord furkles, anyway???? He sounds like a ravaing loonatick who has lost his marbes. Oh sorry he is LIEOBOUR!!!!
87

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 01/08/2008 07:20:33
Hey AM2....still hurting??? ;-)
88

Drum Major,

Brisbane, Australia 01/08/2008 07:22:46
This move makes more sense for Scotland. The Australian Labour Party has been introducing a republic by stealth since Goofy Gough changed all the signs on government building removing "Commonwealth of" from "Commonwealth of Australia" to promote a centralist government. We had a referendum the results of which the republican refuse to accept.

Total independance is not necessarily the best for Scotland but a truely democratic Britain where England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales are equal partners must be achieved. This will only come when the British and English parliaments are separated and an equal number of Lords from each of those sovereign countries elected by their people are the only Lords to sit in the House of Lords. Hereditary titles will not be an issue then. This would be a stronger and more influential Britain. One that got its own house in order before trying to impose it brand of democracy elsewhere.
89

Phil MaGlass,

Holland 01/08/2008 07:34:41
snp bRAINWASHING PEOPLE HAHAHAHAAAAA unbelievable how about the I vote Labour cos ma dad did and his dad did mob if thats not brainwashed voting I dont know what is,what the heck has labour done for Scotland in my life time? Nothing,the SNP have made Scots proud to be Scottish again given many people hope and have done more for Scotland in the last two years than Labour has done in 20,years of neglect and filling their own pockets,scandal after scandal,the SNP is a breath of fresh air,Labour wetting themselves over their popularity, and instead of actually raising the issues which need to be raised actually try petty point scoring which isnt working,(although it is for SNP) when Labour make themselves look stupid
90

Phil MaGlass,

Holland 01/08/2008 07:36:27
Oops! would be good if I had read my post again,I could have sorted all my commas and full stops.
91

,

01/08/2008 07:43:50
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
92

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 01/08/2008 07:48:00
#30 Sicko!
93

Colkitto,

River Clyde 01/08/2008 07:51:47
A good move again by the SNP. These wee things do make an impact.
Love the quote from Foulksie "They try to brainwash people into independence instead with a strategy of incremental changes." Ha ha...brill !

Next one should be Police uniforms. Make them more distinctive with a different colour and design from the rest of the UK. Visitors would feel straight away that they are in a different country. And those of us who stay here would know when they leave Scotland

94

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 01/08/2008 07:52:40
#44 A proud doonhamer

Agreed. Hate is a terrible thing but all unionists should be aware that self-hate is even worse.
95

MacGillicuddy,

01/08/2008 07:58:19
So the unionists pounce with vitriol on ANY use of the saltire.
Says all we need to know about them.
Perhaps all of them should read the article carefully.

This initiative is not SNP inspired, but I would have had no objection if it had been.

96

,

01/08/2008 08:03:24
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
97

Bejjy,

01/08/2008 08:09:22
Does painting the trains mean that they will now run on time; no, thought not.
98

Bigwull,

edinburgh 01/08/2008 08:12:17
To be Honest the Scottish Government should Nationalise the railways and run it as a public service as per most of Europe
99

Bringalbert,

North Perth 01/08/2008 08:12:52
Reform the empire!
100

mrsbruce,

Livingston 01/08/2008 08:17:13
So, the railway (a private company), is painting its stock, at a time it will need painting, thus not costing any extra, all the same colour.

They have decided that it is a good business thing to paint it with the Saltire, as they are Scotrail.

This is the Scottish Governments fault because?
101

Scotland to prosper...,

01/08/2008 08:21:49
"They know they can't have a straight fight on it because they would lose hands down, so they try to brainwash people into independence instead with a strategy of incremental changes."

This might be the worst quote from a "politician" I think I've ever heard. He's really scrapping the bottom of the barrel with this one. Why does this man constantly want to open his mouth and let his belly rumble?

I'm sorry I didn't realise companies were banned from using the national flag in their logo's.
102

Linda,

Edinburgh 01/08/2008 08:25:58
Benefits of the Union # 4537

Abolition of Glasgow Passport Office.

Anti German and anti French sentiments by British Nationalists go uncommented upon. Most recently last night's BBC TV Top Gear TV show.

Flying of the Union Flag should be banned as it is creping centralisation.
103

paulr,

edinburgh 01/08/2008 08:27:38
If Labour are so absolutely certain that the people of scotland will utterly reject the SNP's independence ballot, WHY are they doing so much bleating and whining about it???
104

Daveunderwater,

Karratha 01/08/2008 08:30:59
# 46

I think you are confusing the issue, the Brits who moan are the whingeing pommes, the phrase was coined by our friends down under.

I have never heard the phrase whingeing jocks while on business down under.
105

Mikey,

01/08/2008 08:36:40
So a private company decides to repaint their trains in the colours of the flag of the country in which they operate? And unionists snivel about it?

How about rebranding 'Scotrail' to 'Iarnrod Albann?'

That should really bring out the snivellers! There can't be another country in the world that puts up with such a bunch of snivelling onanists whose only purpose in life is to see their country ruled by another!
106

MacGillicuddy,

01/08/2008 08:45:04
And just where where the ignoble Baron George von Foulke-all, AM2 and all the other unionists when Scotairways, Scottish Citylink, Bank of Scotland, Scottish SPCA etc etc etc adopted their liveries?

Seems to me that the unionists would return Scotland to their immediate post-Culloden position of proscribing EVERYTHING Scottish.