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Analysis: Could it be a repeat performance for SNP?

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Published Date: 14 August 2008
By HAMISH MACDONELL
SUCH is the depth of Labour's problems that hardly anyone expects the party successfully to defend a majority of almost 11,000 in a seat vacated by the death of a popular local MP.
John MacDougall was popular in the area and cultivated a solid personal vote – the SNP will need a 14 per cent swing to seize the constituency in a by-election.

In any other circumstances, Labour would go into the contest expecting to do well,
but these are anything but normal times.

The bookmakers made the SNP 1/4 on to win the constituency last night, simply because Labour is in such a hopeless mess.

So where does this leave Alex Salmond and the SNP?

In part, the Nationalists are a victim of their own success. Their win in Glasgow East was so monumental, taking such a safe Labour seat, that they have raised expectations to an extraordinary level.

It is not quite at the stage where failure to win Glenrothes would be seen as a significant setback, but it is getting close.

The SNP does have a lot going for it in the area. It won the corresponding Scottish Parliament constituency at last year's Holyrood elections and controls Fife Council. The party has a strong activist base in the area and showed in Glasgow East that it can deploy an effective by-election machine if needs be.

If the SNP was to win in Glenrothes, it would set Mr Salmond well on the way to his target of 20 MPs at the next election.

Just a few weeks ago, he had only six MPs. By the end of the year he could have eight. Suddenly, that 20-seat target does not seem so far away.

If the Nationalists did get their 20 MPs, it would give them significant influence at Westminster and neither of the big parties could afford to ignore their demands.

There is another possible development which might alter the SNP's focus. Labour leaders at Holyrood are waiting for Jack McConnell's decision on when he intends to stand down as the MSP for Motherwell and Wishaw so he can go to Malawi as the UK's High Commissioner.

The former first minister has said he won't make a decision until he gets confirmation of his appointment from the Foreign Office.

If the Foreign Office endorses his appointment, his contract should come to him soon, which means he could stand down in the next couple of months, forcing a by-election for Holyrood on the same day as the Glenrothes poll.

That would probably help Labour, allowing them to split the SNP's resources into two different parts of the country and, if Labour lost both, they would only have to deal with one day of bad news, not two.

Mr Salmond will, however, view both potential contests as further golden opportunities to extend his current hegemony over Labour.





Page 1 of 1

 
1

Soup kitchen,

14/08/2008 00:01:43
SNP are just a blunt instrument that is nearest to hand to beat Labour with.

Why do their voters/campaigners on here believe people are actually warming to independence?

One third-half of their voters just want a change from Labour, not to destroy the Union.
2

Matt there,

somewhere 14/08/2008 00:10:41
And you are certain about that, Soup Kitchen?

A problem unionistas will have is that for years Scotland was told: "Oh, we can't possibly do that/have that, here."

But then the SNP takes control and the very things that Scotland was told could not be done or that they could not have are happening. How strange is that?!

But Labour have made things even worse. New ideas from the SNP are greeted with mutters of: "Oh, London would not like that! London will do such-and-such, London will withhold the funding, etc."

This makes people who had previously not been impressed by the call for independence for Scotland saying: "Well, if that London place does not like things we want for Scotland, is it not time to reduce or even completely sever the link between Scotland and this 'London'?"
3

Soup kitchen,

14/08/2008 00:13:27
3

The SNP can't deliver most of their promises and have in fact already performed U-turns and dumped the most important one.

Where do you get this fantasy from?

For years the Scots were told Labour and the SNP are full of it... and they both are. What's changed? Labour/SNP are going to pull Scotland apart for decades to come. Too many stupid public sector workers in Scotland voting for more post-war handouts and employment rights at the cooncil.
4

Soup kitchen,

14/08/2008 00:14:06
3

When you say London, do you mean the UK government? The London mayor has no influence up here.
5

Arrow,

edinburgh 14/08/2008 00:17:12
this is a different kettle of fish to Glasgow East. the late MP was popular and there does not appear to be the taint of corruption that attached itself to Marshall. it should be an interesting fight and i beleive that, based on the respect for the previous incumbent, labour might hold on. it all depends on who they put up. and they will have to take their time about it this time and make sure it is a first choice and not 2nd or 3rd. is it true that Cathy Jamieson has always lived in Fife? lets see if labour have learned thier lesson and it is not an SNP certainty (but it would be nice!).
6

Conan the Librarian™,

14/08/2008 00:17:19
5
What, you're not influenced by his tousled hair and goofy grin?

7

Conan the Librarian™,

14/08/2008 00:21:53
2
Who will never take him alive Col?
8

Dave B,

Edinburgh 14/08/2008 00:31:50
"he could stand down in the next couple of months, forcing a by-election for Holyrood on the same day as the Glenrothes poll"

They will no doubt consider this, but stunts like this are pretty transparent and don't go down well with the voters.
A bit like holding the Glasgow East by-election on the glasgow fair holidays..
It just seems totally cynical, from a sleazy party..
9

druidh,

edinburgh 14/08/2008 00:40:37
I'm sure we'll soon find that Margaret Curran was born and brought up in Glenrothes.
10

Oldnat,

14/08/2008 00:40:52
Arrow

I agree that Glenrothes will be no pushover for the SNP. Not only is Labour in Fife less tainted than in the West of Scotland, but Fifers are thrawn folk, and not inclined to follow political fashion. I still hope they'll vote SNP though!
11

,

14/08/2008 01:29:18
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
12

Nikostratos,

14/08/2008 05:26:24
"if Labour lost both, they would only have to deal with one day of bad news, not two."

Thats all right then Eh?
13

Snuffy Ivy,

Aberdeen 14/08/2008 05:51:48
It's never a bad thing for Scottish folk to vote for their own government.
The debate about separation doesn't come into the equation at the moment since, the SNP is quite capable of governing even IF separation is ultimately rejected. No problems there since the Scots would still have their own governing representatives fighting for them in Westminster. London had better wake up soon and smell the roses!
14

Argyll on line,

Inveraray 14/08/2008 06:46:29
The temptation for Brown to div- up SNP efforts by putting two bye elections on in the one day must be enormous.It os a tactic which has worked for Labour several times before. However for him the dangers are considerable. A double whammy against him would be utter humiliation and certainly bury him.
15

eric,

Lothian 14/08/2008 07:19:17
Unionists in Scotland have a much Larger enemy.Voters in England Just see us ALL ie SNP labour as SCOTS and they want us dumped out union.Theres no way back.
16

Andrew D,

bne 14/08/2008 07:21:27
The guy being liked and dying is very different to a crook standing down for "ill health" and the seats are very different seats.

Yes the SNP won in the Holyrood election but it was different so no counting of chickens here and anyone that tries to present a Labour win here as a loss for the SNP is kidding themselves.

I hope the SNP wins whenever it happens but it will be AS big if not bigger a victory than the Glasgow East one.
17

Linda,

Edinburgh 14/08/2008 08:13:45
Based on latest YouGov poll, Glenrothes is not a shoo in for SNP it is not in the top 20 seats that SNP would gain
so Hamish it is just wishful thinking that not winning would be a significant set back.
18

Tom R,

14/08/2008 08:13:52
If the SNP win the Glenrothes by-election (and it is the likeliest, although by no means certain, outcome) then this will be the first time ever that the SNP have won/gained two successive seats at by-elections.

That would result in enormous favourable momentum for the SNP while the Westminster general election grows ever nearer.
19

tommy M,

Scotland 14/08/2008 08:35:58
I wonder if the voters in Glenrothes are as scunnered by Brown's cosying up to Thatcher as i am?
20

Grahamski,

Falkirk 14/08/2008 08:54:12
Looking forward to seeing how often Mr Salmond makes it up to Glenrothes. Something tells me we won't be essing quite as much of Mr Salmond this time round....
21

,

14/08/2008 08:55:24
Comment Removed By Administrator
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22

Grahamski,

Falkirk 14/08/2008 09:11:42
Incidentally, good to see the nationalist supporters disgracing themselves for the second day in a row over at the Herald. The downright nastiness and snideness which seems to fuel a lot of SNP posters leaves a nasty taste in the mouth.
23

Senga Jean,

14/08/2008 09:26:11
Do not forget the Lib/Dems. Remember how they conned the voters in Dunfermline and pretended they were not in coalition with Labour. Lib/dems shafted poor naive Labour good style. It was the turning point for me when I saw their wee rally pouring through the B & Q car park with saltire banners and " It wisnae us" posters. Lib/Dems..pure kidology. (Yes I did once vote for them but its SNP from now on...Federal is fudge...Independence only please)
24

Senga Jean,

14/08/2008 09:30:52
#25 And on the INTERNET you can tell when someone is a genuine SNP supporter? Trolls by definition are not what you think. Grahamski...for all I know you could be a Soviet spy who does not know the Soviet Union has ended. Unionists are like that!
25

Peeablo,

UKSSR 14/08/2008 09:49:27
#25 ?Grahamski

I read through the Herald posts, I didn't read any 'nastiness and snideness' by any political supporters.

The only 'nasty taste' is your mud slinging.

Mud doesn't always stick, only on those who throw it!



26

Peeablo,

UKSSR 14/08/2008 09:49:38
#25 ?Grahamski

I read through the Herald posts, I didn't read any 'nastiness and snideness' by any political supporters.

The only 'nasty taste' is your mud slinging.

Mud doesn't always stick, only on those who throw it!
27

Rodster,

Glasgow 14/08/2008 09:54:56
I see Grahamski up to his usual smears and slurs , wake up son it does not work anymore .
On the more substantive issue the 2 elections in one day .
I can only see disadvantage for Liebour in this ,The SNP Election machine is slick and has lots and lots of volunteers , Liebour on the other hand had to bus in English loyalists in Glasgow East ,if dividing forces is going to hamper anyone it will not be the SNP
28

,

14/08/2008 10:04:14
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29

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 14/08/2008 10:07:51
Glenrothes is probably a seat too far for the Nationalists.

However, IF the Labour Party in Scotland somehow manages to lose another constituency in a place like Fife with a massive majority of over 10,000 then, just like the Scots Tory Party, its political base could well be destroyed and never recover!
30

,

14/08/2008 10:09:57
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
31

Scottish 'N British,

14/08/2008 10:10:20
Given the climate, the SNP must be favourites.

All depends on how the voters view it -

1. do they jump on the bandwagon and give Brown a kicking by voting SNP, or

2. do they look west to Glasgow East and buy into what the SNP intends to do for these 'failed' voters and say "we'll have some of that!!"

BTW, anyone heard what do the SNP plan to do to fix the problems in Glasgow East?

Weeks later, and that's one photo opportunity yet to happen.

32

Venachar,

14/08/2008 10:27:27
Labour are going to lose!

Labour has been underperforming in the area for years and the SNP have been working hard. Labour councillors with a conscience have resigned because of the little cliques within the Labour party. I have seen the change and have been represented very well by two SNP councillors who do not treat their constituents with disdain and leave them in ignorance. The SNP communicate with the voters.

Henry McLeish as far as I'm concerned was a good MP, it shows what Labour are like when you get stabbed in the back by a supposed collegue.

John MacDougall as far as I'm concerned was typical Labour cannon fodder. I did not agree with his voting record so he did not get my vote at the last election.

The bookies are very rarely wrong.
33

,

14/08/2008 10:28:15
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
34

Grahamski,

Falkirk 14/08/2008 10:29:51
33
The SNP posts were repellant. It is interesting that rather than denouncing them you choose to deny them. So be it.
35

Grahamski,

Falkirk 14/08/2008 10:36:34
40
Miniblair? Who is Miniblair?
All minor cults and sects resort to name-calling and de-humanising their opponents. The nazis did that too, it's easier to keep your moonie-like adherents in line if you make them believe that their opponents are untermenschen. That's why you'll see the nats regularly use this nazi trick of de-humanising their opponents.
It shows their lack of respect and inherent dishonesty. Long may they continue with their snide and nasty tactics. When they are found out they have a long way to fall.
36

Scottish 'N British,

14/08/2008 10:40:05
40

So, what's the 'grandplan' for Glenrothes, then?
37

Venachar,

14/08/2008 10:47:34
#43

Are you talking about the Labour Party?

BTW I am not a member of any party. I do wish however to exercise my own judgement on who I think is worth my vote.
#40 may be a supporter of the SNP I do not know but what I do know is that voting Labour in Fife is a wasted vote and as he says more people are coming to realise this.

If you don't know who Miniblair is then you deserve all you are going to get as the Labour party heads to become a minor cult.
38

Daveunderwater,

Scottish Not British 14/08/2008 10:54:52
# 45

One things for sure the SNP will be better than the failed 30 year plan Labour instigated.

Was there a plan?

Only the man at the bottom of the garden knew...

With Jimmy Reid on their side SNP will whitewash Fife!!
39

Daveunderwater,

Scottish Not British 14/08/2008 10:57:06
# 41

You are in denial, but time will tell

And IT'S TIME
40

Daveunderwater,

Scottish Not British 14/08/2008 11:00:10
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41

Daveunderwater,

Scottish Not British 14/08/2008 11:01:29
# 45

Try Grand Slam as opposed to Grand Plan!!
42

pehman,

sussex 14/08/2008 11:06:56

I'm certain that the former Fife miners will love the SNP leaflet (used in Glasgow East) of g brown welomming thatcher back into downing st.

As for the two elections on the same day, well it may stretch the SNP, but the real question should be, how would slab cope with two elections on the same day, when they struggled so badly with the one in Glasgow ?

Ofcourse slab may call three elections, if the Paisley quitter, quits too. And there is also the poss of the elections being called on a day to co-incide with the SNP conference in Perth.


43

Earman,

Dumfries 14/08/2008 11:13:24
I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that no matter how many by-elections/election/polls etc show the obvious...that the present Scottish Government is LIKED by the Scottish electorate....there are a hardcore of unionist supporters who are very quickly becoming this century's "Flat Earth Society".

Perhaps this "hardcore" should start asking themselves if their stance has anything whatsoever to do with a genuine concern for the Scottish people and their welfare, or something far less honourable.
44

Scottish 'N British,

14/08/2008 11:25:07
48, and 51

I'll ask again -

If it's not merely a reaction to Brown and Labour's policies over the decades, what's the (SNP) 'grandplan' for Glenrothes, then?

By not answering, your answer must be an acknowledgment that nothing will change.

So why vote SNP.
To hurt Labour.
45

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 14/08/2008 11:25:58
#37 You're aware that John Mason hasn't even had a chance to sit down in the Commons as an MP yet, yes?
46

Grahamski,

Falkirk 14/08/2008 11:28:14
54
Tell you what, carry on in your delusions. The current SNP administration is popular becuase they have been long on bravado and bombast and short on taking responsibility or indeed difficult decisions. As time goes on the bombast will look increasingly hollow and the difficult decisions will have to be made.
Just watch their popularity disappear like snow aff a dyke...
and see how far you get fuelled by one man's vanity.
47

Shaken,

14/08/2008 11:31:12
Grahamski,Falkirk

Oh joy. Liking the SNP to the Nazis? Who is slinging names to dehumanise the opposition? You have to laugh at these people.#

Vive la SNP
48

Scottish 'N British,

14/08/2008 11:35:03
56

Had worked that one out, Rev. Can you confirm that his 'grandplan' will be revealed in his maiden speech?

You sort of infer that this is the case.

Personally, can't wait to hear it. I'm sure the trusting voters of Glasgow East can't wait, either.

Make it a good 'un, Johnny Boy, make it a good 'un....
49

LEAL,

14/08/2008 11:39:06
The tories and libdems will be expecting to up their share of the vote in Glenrothes,which might make it difficult for the SNP.however ,I think the voters in Glenrothes are just as bored with the Union and encouraged by the SNP as they were in Glasgow East.I think this byelection will depend on the calibre of the candidates and the record of the councillors who serve this area.The SNP HAVE to be able to fight 2 byelections at the same time.I think if they can motivate a huge number of activists to campaign in each of 2 constituencies on the same day,it will tell us a lot about the depth of their activists passion and about their willingness to put in the huge amount of work that will be required to win the referendum on Independence.
50

Scottish 'N British,

14/08/2008 11:40:23
59

Oh dear. I do appear to have upset you. never mind.

Perhaps you can answer...

I don't live in Glenrothes so can't really advise them either way. All I'm pointing out is that they're deluding themselves if they believe that the 'failed decades' will soon be replaced by Utopia. Ain't going to happen.

For a definitie answer, cut through the Separatist spin here and look at 15 months of SNP rule at Holyrood. For all his bluster Salmond isn't capable of doing anything except grandstanding, removing tolls and toeing the Tory line on cutting rates and fulfilling promises on 1,000 cops (good ideas BTW).


51

Scottish 'N British,

14/08/2008 11:42:29
65

Labour has failed, clearly.

I'll ask again...


So, what's the (SNP) 'grandplan' for Glenrothes, then?
52

Senga Jean,

14/08/2008 11:57:30
#70 The SNP Grand Plan is on their web site. Go figure!
53

bill-alba,

fife 14/08/2008 12:10:06
Im afraid the people of glenrothes will vote in the libdems..the people I talk to think the libdems walk on water..we can only hope I'm proven wrong.
54

Scottish 'N British,

14/08/2008 12:12:48
72

"please get back coz you do have a big mouth.." is what passes for normal conversation in Leith, then?

Anyway, don't splutter in your cornflakes.

The upshot is this. I acknowledge Labour has failed Glenrothes. Your mistake is that you expected me to defend their record, on the mistaken assumption that I'm a Scottish Labour member, activist or voter.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

So, in a nutshell, we agree. What I'm keen on finding out are the plans the SNP have for addressing this?

They do have ideas, yes? Or is it merely more of the same?

Replace Scottish Labour with the SNP.


55

Scottish 'N British,

14/08/2008 12:14:51
75

See 80 and get back to me.

Please.
56

Venachar,

14/08/2008 12:18:07
Scottish N British

Your name wouldn't be Gordon would it? Are you writing a book on Britishness when you should be working?

As spook says Labour lost the local elections last time out. I just happen to have lived in two wards of the town. My original councillor resigned from the Labour party because she could not put up with their bad practices, say no more! Since then I have been represented by two very able SNP councillors who actually get out and communicate with people and at local level get things done.

So all you political theorists out there take note. The SNP have been working hard in Glenrothes for years and I bet they will win this seat especially if they pick one of the local councillors and not parachute in an incomer.

The plan hopefully is to do at national level what they've been doing successfully at local level. I for one could not see why I was being taxed by way of a bridge toll to either get in or leave Fife by the Forth or Tay bridges when elswhere there was no toll.

That was a real sharp move by the Labour and Lib dems to leave that bit of legislation in place.
57

Yeah1,

14/08/2008 12:18:25
See this quote from the Scotsman article entitled 'New Scots vote gives Brown three months to save political skin':

"The Nats' campaign machine has geared up in the area since last October, and it has spent the past few months canvassing 40,000 constituents after taking the corresponding Holyrood seat last year."

Also see this quote from Guardian article entitled 'MP's death leaves Brown facing new SNP challenge in neighbouring Fife constituency':

"Labour sources say the party has had an "under the radar" campaign in the constituency since it became clear he was terminally ill."

It seems rather less than respective that the SNP appear to have been campaigning in this constituency from the moment they realised the MP was terminally ill and there was likely to be a by-election shortly.

Of course the 'labour sources' may not be wholly truthful, but it looks like there is some evidence to back up the theory that the SNP have been somewhat predatory and rather uncaring by starting to campaign in this constituency while the MP lay dying.
58

Yeah1,

14/08/2008 12:30:11
#87

"Sniff sniff, ooh the big bad SNP, peel a fecking grape..lol"

You may find such disrespectful and predatory electioneering funny but personally I think its pretty disgusting behaviour.

Starting to campaign in a constituency once they realised the MP was terminally ill and there was likely to be a by-election shortly is a pretty cynical and underhand act.

I'm sure if any other party had done such a thing you and your type would be the first to complain but because its the SNP you laugh it off and continue to bash labour for their 'cynical' tactics while ignoring the cynical tactics of your own party.
59

Scottish 'N British,

14/08/2008 12:31:15
74

Fife has had ALL of that in just over a year? Wow, they must be salivating, right enough.

You appear to have no idea of what the SNP would do for Glenrothes that would be any different to Scottish Labour didn't, possiblty because there is no alternative, no Plan B. Which is MY point.

lol

The romoval of tolls is populist. In saving users money it won't clear up congestion in Dundee city centre.

How's the Forth Road Bridge to be funded?

On the QMH we agree. But having saved this local hospital, I haven't seen any SNP (or any other) Fife politician demanding that Fife patients go to Fife hospitals rather than Edinburgh or Tayside for health treatment.

Nothing in The Courier. Any ideas?

60

Davie from Irvine,

Auld Irvine Burgh Ayrshire coast 14/08/2008 12:33:21
Grahamski @23, why do you assume that Alex Salmond wont be visiting Fife so much as Glasgow East ?,
61

Yeah1,

14/08/2008 12:38:42
#96

"SNP says they will start campaigning AFTER the funeral."

Read the quotes from the articles I refer to in post #85 - you will see that according to those articles the SNP began campaigning in this constituency last October, once they realised the MP was terminally ill and there was likely to be a by-election shortly.
62

Scottish 'N British,

14/08/2008 12:41:09
83

"but as anyone who knows me, im not afraid to post my slavering...Hoos poos ??

That is soooo true.


91

Student, huh. You must be REALLY chuffed then with the SNP's pre-election promise to clear ALL your debt, only to see them dumb it down to only 20% of the average graduating student's debt!!




63

Scottish 'N British,

14/08/2008 12:48:26
97

Well the answer isn't Hibs, that's for sure. How's the Forth Road Bridge to be funded......... anyone?

Hello?
64

Venachar,

14/08/2008 12:50:54
106

Q.What do you pay your road tax and fuel duty for?
A Not roads and bridges that would be too obvious. How about the John Lewis list for MP's.
65

Brian Hill,

14/08/2008 12:52:59
#85 Yeah1. You obviously haven't been round politics very long, this is standard practice. Determining where your vote lies is not campaigning but it will be very helpful when the campaign comes.....and do you think possible candidates the Labour Party haven't been gently pressing their case to succeed John MacD?

As it is Henry Mcleish is the only man who would have any chance of holding this seat for labour but he knows the future of Scottish politics lies in Edinburgh.

More likely to see him popping up in Motherwell.....though that is possibly too soon for him....
66

Yeah1,

14/08/2008 12:56:27
#105

"As the Guardian says, "The SNP is likely to argue that Tricia Marwick, who holds the SNP seat at Holyrood, is simply acting as a diligent MSP."

Yes of course they will say that, they aren't going to admit to campaigning there because they knew the MP was terminally ill are they?

As the articles say this was 'under the radar' campaigning - such as canvassing 40,000 constituents.

It would be interesting to see whether the SNP have also canvassed 40,000 constituents in other constituencies too, or whether they just canvassed that amount of constituents in seats where they knew the MP was terminally ill....

Of course it is not just the SNP - every party gets involved in cynical and underhand electioneering tactics - I just find it hypocritical that so many SNP supporters are happy to criticise labour for cynical tactics when their own party gets involved in similar things.
67

lulach mac gille coemgain,

14/08/2008 13:00:30
‘. . . these are anything but normal times.’

is HAMISH MACDONELL saying that the Scottish Peoples right to choosing an Alternative to Labour, in so doing is creating ABNORMALITY ?

Can HAMISH MACDONELL produce evidence of what NORMAL times are ?

Or does only he know in his little perfect NORMAL world.
68

Yeah1,

14/08/2008 13:03:03
#108

"#85 Yeah1. You obviously haven't been round politics very long, this is standard practice."

Actually I have quite a bit of political knowledge. I know it is standard practice.

I was just trying to make the point that the SNP, like every other party, engages in political acts which could be seen as cynical, such as starting to campaign in a constituency where they know there is likely to be a by-election shortly.

I just think it is hypocritical that all these SNP supporters criticise labour when they engage in what could be seen as cynical political acts (such as holding the Glasgow East by-election during the Glasgow fair), when their own party also engages in equally cynical political acts - it is part of politics so face up to it.
69

Davie from Irvine,

Auld Irvine Toon Ayrshire Coast 14/08/2008 13:04:57
106 well said, the money for road bridges should come from the road tax fund, that is what we are told we pay road tax for.
70

Venachar,

14/08/2008 13:08:36
Yeah1
Glasgow East proved that the Labour Party are incapable of running any sort of campaign.
Just look at the "balloons" now trying to convince the mentally subnormal to vote them into power as leader of the North British Unionist Party.
Knowing Labour they will use the same outfit that organised the Holyrood elections and look what a shambles that turned out to be.
71

Yeah1,

14/08/2008 13:12:01
#111

"Political parties canvas all the time. EVERY political party. Do you seriously expect a party to suspend this when an MP is ill?
Sources say; insider alleges; it is reported that."

Yes as I have already said the quotes from 'labour sources' can be discounted, however the Scotsman article states that:

"The Nats' campaign machine has geared up in the area since last October, and it has spent the past few months canvassing 40,000 constituents after taking the corresponding Holyrood seat last year."

The above is not a quote from a 'source' or an allegation from an 'insider'.

Of course political parties canvas all the time, it just seems somewhat cynical that the SNP appear to have been 'gearing up' their campaigning in this constituency since last October - around the time it became clear the MP was terminally ill.

Again I wonder if they have also 'geared up' their campaign and canvassed 40,000 people in constituencies where the MP is not terminally ill?

This kind of behaviour is part of politics however, every political party engages in it.
72

Bobby123,

dundee 14/08/2008 13:14:09
While condolences to the late MP's family how many appearances did he make in parliament in the last 3 years.

But i am sure continued to draw a salary-should he not have resignes when he could no longer represent his constituents or is the £65k salary overide that.
73

lulach mac gille coemgain,

14/08/2008 13:18:54
How about striking up a deal and handing over control of Glenrothes, Livingston and Cumbernauld to PM Putin.
74

Davie from Irvine,

Auld Irvine Burgh Toon Ayrshire 14/08/2008 13:20:48
106 bridges should be funded from the road tax fund.
75

,

14/08/2008 13:36:24
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
76

Linda,

Edinburgh 14/08/2008 13:38:47
# 118

Your comment is in extremely poor taste.

# 104 Danielrober. The Lib Dems only postponed Student Fees the SNP abolished them saving each Scottish student £2300. This was opposed by every Tory and Labour MSP. And a Lib Dem MP said it was just picking a fight with Westminster.

Throughout Scotland, the Lib Dem vote has halved since 2005
77

Yeah1,

14/08/2008 14:28:35
#123 Linda:

"Your comment is in extremely poor taste."

My comment is in extremely poor taste? I would think it is far more distasteful that the SNP 'geared up' their campaigning in Glenrothes last October because they knew there was likely to be a by-election shortly.

See this quote from the Guardian:

"the party has had an "under the radar" campaign in the constituency since it became clear he was terminally ill."

That sort of behaviour is what I would call distasteful, but of course being a diehard supporter of a political party you are clinically unable to admit to any faults whatsoever within your party - thats what is so hypocritical about people like you.
78

Alan B,

14/08/2008 14:39:57
It will be an interesting by election.

Both labour and lib dems will have new scottish leaders.

After seeing Tavish Scott the lib dem favourite on tv last night, you really have to think if he gets it the lib dems will sink out of site. He was all over the place trying not the show his hand and what he really believes.

Without Kennedy or even Campbell at the head of uk lib dems they really have a nobody leader their to ie someone few had heard of before he took over ie Clegg. And he has done little to change that since taking over. Just seems like a Cameron mini me.

As such i can see the lib dems sinking very fast.

Labours, new scottish leader will be one of 3 poor candidates. None have been able to articulate a vision while being part of the previous government. They have been no better in opposition over the last yr. Grey now the favourite only had to open his mouth to make a complete shambles of abolishing council tax.

It will also be interesting to see if brown is still labours uk leader. If he is can he really afford to lose this by election, particularly as it is in fife, where his own constituency is.

As such it probably really would be the end of the line for brown. If Milliband really is the guy to take over labour will have made a big mistake as he represent what is wrong with labour.

If the snp do win it will bring much more credibility to them in performing at westminster. The perception always is why vote for the snp there where they simply cannot win power, unlike the scottish parliament.

79

Yeah1,

14/08/2008 14:44:02
#128

What relevance does the fact that October was 10 months ago have to do with anything?

I just want to know why the SNP 'geared up' their campaigning in Glenrothes at that time and whether they also 'geared up' their campaigning in other constituencies at the same time?

In other words, was there a general 'gearing up' of SNP campaigning last October or did it just happen in a constituency where they knew the MP was terminally ill and there would be a by-election shortly?

I would also like to know whether they have canvassed 40,000 constituents in other seats too, or whether it was just this one?

If someone is able to answer that then I will 'give it up'.
80

Yeah1,

14/08/2008 14:49:15
#129

"If the snp do win it will bring much more credibility to them in performing at westminster. The perception always is why vote for the snp there where they simply cannot win power, unlike the scottish parliament."

And how will the SNP winning this by-election change the perception that they cannot win power in Westminster?

Obviously even if the SNP won every seat they fielded a candidate in they would still be nowhere near winning power in Westminster, so how would them winning one by-election change that perception?
81

Alan B,

14/08/2008 14:52:49
#Scottish 'N British

I think your attitude that if people do not vote labour in scotland it is because they are giving them a kicking is becoming outdated.

For a start it assumes most people will have a natural allegiance to labour in scotland.

Historically that was true over the past few decades but the ground has shifted. Remember the tories in the 50s were the only party to win an overall majority of votes in scotland ever. So the subsequent move to labour dominating, shows that the ground does move in politics.

The question is why did people in scotland vote for labour so much in the first place. Much of that is probably due to the old class system. Working class scotland would vote for the working class party in a 2 horse race.

Two things have happened to change that. The scottish parliament mean it is not a choice between the tories and labour. The choice here could be categorised almost as which is the least worst. The advent of the scottish parliament means that we have parties who can really apeal to the scottish electrate. It is no longer a choice between the tories who scotland have felt alienated by or a labour party that threw away its policies and values which attracted scotland in the first place to replace them with policies to enable it to win power in england.

Part of the problem with seeing it just as giving a party a kicking is- were england just giving the tories a kicking for 12 yrs before returning to the fold.

If it was just giving labour a kicking why not any of the other big parties ie why snp.

At the end of the day people vote based on what parties,leaders and policies they like together with taking into account the competition. It could be because you like a party or dislike them less than the alternatives.
82

Alan B,

14/08/2008 14:57:21
#Yeah1

You misunderstand why i was posting. I possibly was not clear.

I think it may change the perception that the snp can win seats in Westminster not win power at Westminster.

Speaking personally even after the snp won the last scottish election I have remain sceptical whether they would perform well at a general election. While i could see them winning by a larger majority at the next scottish election.

Following from winning glasgow east, if they were to win this seat, it would make me believe abit more that they may win many more seats at a general election.
83

Alan B,

14/08/2008 14:58:05
sorry "You misunderstand why i was posting" should have been:

You misunderstand what i was posting
84

Guga II,

Rockall 14/08/2008 15:00:51
#1 Soup for Brains.

I thought you were "highly skilled and moving abroad"? Any chance of you going very soon?
85

A Clamper,

Edinburgh 14/08/2008 15:10:42
SNP 4-1 on to win. : )
86

Oldnat,

14/08/2008 15:49:35
Yeah

"whether they also 'geared up' their campaigning in other constituencies at the same time?"

I don't know about other constituencies, but in mine, I've had 3 leaflets from the SNP in the last few months. We have a perfectly healthy Labour MP and SNP constituency MSP. I'm rather glad that at least one party communicates with me when there's NOT an imminent election.
87

Scottish 'N British,

14/08/2008 16:52:36
"I think your attitude that if people do not vote labour in scotland it is because they are giving them a kicking is becoming outdated."

I disagree. That comment was one that was much played at the recent Glasgow East election.

"For a start it assumes most people will have a natural allegiance to labour in scotland."

They do, as you go on to point out.

Historically. that was true over the past few decades but the ground has shifted. Remember the tories in the 50s were the only party to win an overall majority of votes in scotland ever. So the subsequent move to labour dominating, shows that the ground does move in politics.

Yes, it does. But you have to remember that the SNP got around 33% of the May 07 vote - around 20% if one includes the fact that just over half voted. That isn't a definite shift of voting pattern. That's the problem with CyberNat-ism, of people with the same opinions speaking to one another. Fiction can become fact.

"The question is why did people in scotland vote for labour so much in the first place. Much of that is probably due to the old class system. Working class scotland would vote for the working class party in a 2 horse race."

Not probably, it was. There is also Labour's involvement in the setting up of the NHS and of course, their links to the ordinary man and women through the Trades Unions.

"Two things have happened to change that. The scottish parliament mean it is not a choice between the tories and labour. The choice here could be categorised almost as which is the least worst. The advent of the scottish parliament means that we have parties who can really apeal to the scottish electrate. It is no longer a choice between the tories who scotland have felt alienated by or a labour party that threw away its policies and values which attracted scotland in the first place to replace them with policies to enable it to win power in england."

It has been decades since the Tories were a force up here.
88

Scottish 'N British,

14/08/2008 16:54:23
cont.

Nationally, both Labour and the Conservatives have been in power, and people have seen what they can, and can't do. The SNP haven't been tested, exposed to such scrutiny - they however have grown over the last couple of decades in saying they offered a real alternative. They now have their chance and people will be able to judge them on it. This is why I wasn't too unhappy about the Separatist victory in May 07 - moaning from the sidelines has allowed them to pick up votes (independence is still a no-brainer in Sctland, remember). Salmond can now be judged on his record, and not glib responses.

"Part of the problem with seeing it just as giving a party a kicking is- were england just giving the tories a kicking for 12 yrs before returning to the fold."

No, England is, historically by nature, a Conservative (with a small'c') country. Culturally, things have changed. But historically, that is reflected in the amount of times they have held power in the last century. Blair was chosen because, like Salmond, he offered a 'new way'. That, and the fact that the public had had its fill of the Tories sleaze, economy etc. This is history repeating itself.

"If it was just giving labour a kicking why not any of the other big parties ie why snp."

Why the SNP? That's a no-brainer - if the idea is to put the Big Boy out - the idea is to make sure it works. It's not as simple as that, of course. There is also the SNP's appeal, it's recent growth in local government, Salmnod's 'feel good factor', and of course, the latent 'Scottish' angle, if you wish.

"At the end of the day people vote based on what parties,leaders and policies they like together with taking into account the competition. It could be because you like a party or dislike them less than the alternatives"

That isn't supported by the evidence. Fact is the SNP weren't voted in , Salmond was. This was reflected by the SNP spin machine itself who made sure, for simpl
89

Rodster,

Glasgow 14/08/2008 16:54:24
Similarly I live in Labour seat but regularly get info from my list SNP MSP and also the SNP in general.
This is as usual merely a Unionist trying to invent a smear.
Besides whether or not the late MP was ill or 100% fit alas sad as it may seem life goes on , so do taxes so does governing may not be wholesome but alas it is life.
Besides a unionist talking about cynicism or any other tactic brings to mind kettle , pot and the word black
90

Rodster,

Glasgow 14/08/2008 16:55:32
Let me put some cynicism together for you ,
McRone , Trident , Iraq , pension theft , but to mention a few!!
91

Scottish 'N British,

14/08/2008 16:56:04
cont. 2

icity and popularity's sake, to have the first name on the ballot, the promotion of "Alex Salmond For First Minister".

92

inkster,

14/08/2008 17:34:32

I think Scottish 'n' British's dookers are getting waterlogged.



93

inkster,

14/08/2008 17:43:38
If any Labour, Liberal or conservative MSP or MP wants a political future in Scotland they will have to join the SNP.

Otherwise there will be wholesale slaughter at the next election, general or otherwise.

Who's first? Jack McConnell?



94

Rodster,

Glasgow 14/08/2008 17:45:03
Danielrober I take it your tongue in massively inside your cheek!!!

"The SNP might win this by-election, but sooner or later the SNP will be asked difficult questions. No doubt this is why they push so quickly for a vote on indpendence. Before we can examie their gvernmental affectiveness."


When the discredited Wendy was giving it "Bring it on " you were in the bandwagon complaining that The SNP was runnig scared of an early referendum , now you say "we are pushing quickly" which is it ? I know you Unionists are in difficulties but give us a clue which s it SNP running scared or SNP in a hurry with referendum?
95

Conan the Librarian™,

14/08/2008 18:41:54
148
Good Evening Daniel.

I don't think you accept that there has been a sea change in Scottish politics; the SNP has proved that they CAN do what they promise.

Or we can get more of the same Westminster kowtowing from the Unionist parties...
96

Miss H,

14/08/2008 18:53:03
I don't think that Jack McConnell will necessarily go to Malawi. We'll need to wait and see on that one. But I can guess when they will hold the Glenrothes by-election. Thursday 23 October so that the last week of campaigning coincides with SNP Conference.

Danielrober. The Lib Dems are not doing well because they are not doing anything. They aren't campaigniing, the SNP is, that's why the SNP is doing well. It's not just because of Alex Salmond, good as he is.

Your comments on the SNP's policy on fuel are just silly. Yes prices are goimg up everywhere and governments can't control that - but they can control the level and method of taxation. The SNP's proposal for a fuel price regulator is perfectly sensible which is why it has widespread support and has been nicked by the Tories.
97

Rodster,

Glasgow 14/08/2008 18:55:13
So Daniel let me get this right , 303 of years of union is not long enough for us to judge if the union is the best way forward .
4 years of government by The SNP the people of Scotland are offered a referendum. This referendum is for the SNP to negotiate a (hopefully ) velvet divorce followed by a referendum on those negotiations that is going a little too fast for you is that right?
Meantime we should just accept perhaps another illegal invasion of say Iran , and a replacement Trident on the Clyde more of our brightest emigrating , social deprivation in places like Glasgow East just to stay on hold is that what you are advocating?
If 4 years is not enough time to judge on SNP competence the last 50 years in my life of both Unionist carpetbaggers has been enough for me to judge and I find Westminster guilty of incompetence ,lying ,deceit , bad mangement and utter folly
98

Alan B,

14/08/2008 19:05:19
#danielrober

I think the problem for the lib dems are no such much stabbing Kennedy in the back but:

1)Kennedy was a charismatic leader.
2)the lib dems are being squeesed as will always happen when westminster turns into a close 2 horse race.
3)the libs dems have lost there sharpness on policy terms both at westminster and holyrood
4)in scotland they have been squeezed by the snp as scotland becomes much more of a 2 horse race
5)poor leadership in the sp - Scott who is the favourite for the new leader was very poor on newsnight last night. The same happened with Stephen. He was elected despite being outperformed by Rumbles.
6)no having conviction of their policies
7)being seen to cosy up to labour and not provide an alternative.
8)sold out when they said they would abolish tution fees and then just deferred them. I could understand that, but what really turned me of them was the fact they kept trying to say they had abolished them. One thing the lib dems have to be is honest. Now they have lost that shiny glow they seem abit tarnished. Fixable but will need a decent new leader. Both Finnie and Rumbles are better than Scott from what i have seen on tv.
99

Alan B,

14/08/2008 19:18:25
#danielrober

"As for independence would not 2014 offer us all a chance to see how the SNP performed in real government"

I think there are realistically a few problems with your analysis.

Firstly all governments will be voted out of power eventually and will become tired and tarnished. So why would the snp realistically want to wait until they are possibly on the way out. Not many governments get beyond 3 terms.

Secondly for many independence is not about the snp but they are a vechicle to that end. The point about independence for me is not about how the snp perform per se but about getting the structure of government right in scotland. If you are running any organisation it important that the structure is optimal. The reason people largely believe in independence is due to the fact that they see having full powers in the scottish parliament as a much better way to structure our decision making. Part of the problem for the snp is they are working within a structure they themselves believe is failing. As such running a full 2 terms within a failing structure is abit silly from that perspective.

It is almost saying to the public. We beleive things can be much better if we have full powers in the sp and not the fudge and compromises we have at the moment. But we will not push forward to that end within a reasonable timescale and better scotland in the way we think we can, in order that we can try to achieve with a structure we do not believe in.

By choosing 2010 they have chosen a time that they have some time to show voters what they are like as an administration. It lets the fear of the snp disappear. Negative campaigning labour stype works when the snp were in opposition it is much harder to paint an armegedon position while the snp are in power.
100

Alan B,

14/08/2008 19:32:18
#danielrober

I really do not understand your point regarding the snp and petrol.

There are 2 issues.

1)petrol prices: Much of that is tax. The westmister treasury is making windfall tax revenues due to the high oil price. As such the very least you would want a government to do in this senario is to lower the petrol taxes using that windfall. More than that it can be argued it should go further and cut petrol tax more significantly.

The problem is brown has been poor in his overall governance of the economy from a fiscal perspective. The basics are you run a tight fiscal position over the economic cycle. ie balance the budget (or a smallish deficit) over the economic cycle (not each yr but over the cycle). What he has done is run big budget deficits by spending far more than he took in through tax during the decent economic yrs. So that now when things get ropey he has little room to manouvre.

If Brown had run the uk so that we were entering this period with a decent fiscal position then he could easily have reduced petrol taxes.

The snp have actually been clever in their approach. While the tories slag brown for his fiscal mess the snp are pushing a positive policy. When labour do not implement then you ask why. And as the labour chair of i think a treasury committee (McFall) said it is due to the fiscal position that britain has found itself in.

2) the 2nd issue if over whether scotland should raise its own taxes ie fiscal autonomy or something close.

While the snp have pushed this strongly. It is not necessarily a independence position. The lib dems with Rumbles has articulated this position. Even Scott between the smoke and mirrors of his interview yesterday pretty much agreed with that position. I beleive Munro the deputy leader of the tories agrees as does David Davis. Even Wendy was pushing some sort of fiscal federalism.

Personally i if Calman suggests a fiscal change of position i cannot see anything other than something very ne
101

Alan B,

14/08/2008 19:32:36
cont..

Personally i if Calman suggests a fiscal change of position i cannot see anything other than something very near fiscal autonomy.
102

Alan B,

14/08/2008 19:37:23
#156 danielrober

The world will not be in recession in late 2010 when they are talkinag about having the referendum.

Their commitment was not actually to a 2010 referendum i believe but to bring forward the legislation for that referendum within this parliament. Thus could easily be spring 2011. (could be wrong).

But lets say Scotland votes for independence. The scottish government would then begin negotiations for independence. How long would they take -say a yr. Then given the question they are talking about we and the fact that it is not legally binding you could end up with another referendum in 2012 or spring 2013.

103

Alan B,

14/08/2008 19:41:35
#160 danielrober

Do not follow you apart from it being a bit of a cheap jibe.

My point is the snp maybe good administratively or just as bad as the previous labour administrations. We will have to see. So far they do seem to be far better than labour. But that is my subjective opinion.

Seriously part of the problem with judging the issue of inpendence based on an administration is then should be judge the union by the same measure.

104

ThomasP,

14/08/2008 19:43:22
#156

"The timing will win Scotland no friends in Europe."

I thought we were past the stage of scaremongering.

Could you go into detail why Europe would frown upon Scotland once we are Independent?

How does an Independent Scotland effect the rest of Europe? I could guess that France, Germany and Italy would all seek to lower Britains (England after Independence) influence within the European Union but apart from that what else could there be?
105

Alan B,

14/08/2008 19:47:05
#159 danielrober

I do not find the lib dems have risen above the punch and judy. I think that is one of the most disappointing aspect about them. Main because of the guidance of Nicol Stephen. Wallace was alot better in that regard.

I do not actually think the snp are that punch and judy at the moment i find it main labour. Largely becauce Salmond like Kennedy are positive politicians. And tend to be positive. You may disagree with them. Strugeon while improved alot was in opposition very bolshy and argumentative.

For me i like political discussion but like when people put policies rather than critise other parties policies. There are alot of policies i do not agree wtih the snp but i do like the positive nature of atleast having policies on most issues.

106

ThomasP,

14/08/2008 19:49:05
#164

"Could someone in the SNP please just say why 2010?"

The Scottish National Party hope to acheive a referendum in 2010 at the end of their Era of Governing to show the people of Scotland that they can be successful with devolved powers and can be trusted with all of them.
107

Alan B,

14/08/2008 19:50:27
#165 danielrober

I suppose with politicians you either like them or not. I always thought Salmond came across well although i thought some of his views were wrong.

Personally i have like smith, cook, reid from labour, clarke and heseltine from the tories, and early kennedy and campbell before he took over the leadership and let himself down.
108

Mr. Henry Brown Esquire.,

Invercockaleekie 14/08/2008 19:53:04
58
Grahamski,
Falkirk 14/08/2008 11:28:14



Dear God, how bitter and horrible and twisted this cyber slavery makes these poor bile soaked Union Jokes. Day after day howling and raging and spewing it's vile filth all over these forums. It also appears on The Herald where it has to use different monikers due to it being ritually annihilated and ridiculed on there, how ugly can this slave get before it vaporises in it's own filth like the Union and it's Labour traitors.



SAOR ALBA :o)
109

Alan B,

14/08/2008 19:57:15
#164 danielrober

The snp simply are pushing for the windfall tax revenues gained by the treasury means a cut in petrol tax. That is sensible but the real problem is that brown has made a mess of the fiscal position with huge deficits when the times were decent.

I do not see how they are wasting time pushing for a 2010 referendum

If you believe in the union you will not want a referendum or you want one at a time any referendum will be lost.

If you believe that the union is bad for scotland then you want a referendum so we can go forward and sort out scotland problems by having the powers at our disposal.

It is alittle silly to say wasting time. As if you believe that independence is the best way forward then why wait. As pointed out above your point about a recession will not be relevent given the timescales.



110

Alan B,

14/08/2008 20:04:42
# danielrober

The real issue with independence is where do you think the list of powers should reside. The Scottish parliament, Westminster or the EU.

Ideologically i would have no problem with a devolved confederal uk. ie scotland a member of the uk like countries are the eu.

My issue is what powers would realistically be better down at a UK level. Beyond arguable defence there is not much and defence is very contentious.

Part of the problem with labour is they do not really seem to believe in devolution as a concept but more as a way to stop independence.

The first issue is: should we devolving all powers to sp unless there is a good reason for pulling them with the rest of the uk. Or do we pull as much a possible and only devolve where absolutely necessary.

Part of the problem with the unionist argument is it is generally they want to be in the uk but have little idea about why and what powers should be pulled. (unless they disagree with devolution conceptually). The others just hope at some point in the future the uk could be restructured in a way that may work in the future and hold on to that hope.

The last isssue that needs to be addressed. Has the EU superceded any need for the uk.
111

Alan B,

14/08/2008 20:09:26
#171 danielrober

Personally i would far rather have fiscal autonomy first. But part of the problem is we do not have a unionist side that will say ok let the people choose and lets get all the facts out. We know they will be scaremongering. Labour, the mcrone report. You know the rest.

I would understand your position of waiting if we could move to a much more devolved parliament first. ie get fiscal autonomy and lets see how it goes.

I would like a scotttish parliament that was free to adopt the euro wether in or outside the union. But we cannot the union as it stands is very inflexible.
112

Alan B,

14/08/2008 20:12:15
#danielrober

The policy of the snp round currency has already been announced. They will remain with sterling after independence. (not a policy i would follow).

I would like fiscal autonomy and euro membership while we are within the uk. But unfortunately the sp cannot change these at the moment.

Then the snp want a referendum so the country can choose whether the join the euro or not.
113

Alan B,

14/08/2008 20:18:19
#175 danielrober

" By the way Alec.S was hilarious on 'have i got news for you' a few years ago."

Seriously that is always going to be a problem in a democracy.

We the public have no idea of the how politicians really are. It is just the perception we get from the tv. I like Reid of labour but he was always meant to be very arrogant. I just liked the fact that he seemed competent and could communicate. Could never stand Blair ever since is saw him on question time in the 80s when he was shadow social security spokesman and could not believe it when he became a leadership candidate.

Liked Kennedy again becuase he came across well on tv.

Choosing what politicians you will support will always be based on what policies you like and hence you are more likely to agree with what someone is saying. Possibly why labour are probably the last party i would go for. Together with charisma and communication skills or a perceived honesty. David Davis and Cook were never charismatic but 2 politicians from different side who come across that way.
114

Alan B,

14/08/2008 20:24:07
#danielrober

What are the advantages of the union given the current devolution arrangements? What powers are actually better pulled?

I see no advantage in the scottish parliament not being allowed to consider euro membership for scotland even if it considers it in scotlands interest.

What is the point in a train structure where track is run by westminster and funded by sp. The sp cannot control the structure of trains that they are meant to run. That as far as i am concerned is barmy.

What is the point in the sp having control of police but not being able to decide how many policement in a police car for traffic issues?

Why have a separate legal system and not power over firearms or drugs, id cards, number of days detention?

Why did labour in westminster want to push nuclear power on scotland when scotland has always had a completely different electricity energy policy? Why can we not regulate electricity transmission charges?

Why could we not instigate our own competition investigation into the monopoly that is glas and edin airports?

etc
115

Alan B,

14/08/2008 20:29:29
#danielrober

For me having fiscal powers in scotland is not about keeping abit of vat it is about having the economic levers that fiscal autonomy will give you to try to improve scotland growth rate. An improved growth rate will give scotland a better tax base. An improved growth rate will feed into more and better paid jobs.

One of my overwhelming reasons for independence is so that we can address our economic performance.

In politics it is economics i am most interested in since studying it abit about 20yrs ago (getting old). But also after graduating finding the lack of opportunities in scotland meant that you ended up having to get on your bike and work on and off for 9yrs in london. This opens your eyes to what we could and should be doing.
116

Alan B,

14/08/2008 20:31:51
#danielrober

Yes Prescott stuffed federalising England but Blair was never really into it and that was part of the problem.

The only other alternative is to federalise on country lines. ie an English parliament hopefully replacing the house of lords.

But for scotland it really comes back to the issue what powers are better pulled at a uk level?
117

Alan B,

14/08/2008 20:40:14
#danielrober

One last thing. Given that you seem to be going towards the lib dems.

The lib dems eg Rumbles one of the leadership contenders wants full fiscal autonomy for scotland. That will mean scotland will raise all its own taxation. Tavish Scott said the bulk of taxation should be devolved to sp althrough he is so wooly it hard to see how important an issue it is to him. Their Steel commission talks about a some sort of fiscal autonmy.

So while they want to remain with the uk. Such devolution in power terms means they are close the snp position.
118

Climate change is a fraud,

14/08/2008 20:54:14
I think UKIP will do particularly well. People are really fed up with mainstream politicans. There is very little difference between the Lib-Lab-Con and SNP. Scratch the surface and they all look the same.

Scots are angry over Mr Brown's refusal to hold a referendum on the EU Treaty. Ireland voted no, so Brown and Co push the UK's ratification through against the wishes of the electorate. Don't forget that the SNP are rabidly pro-EU. They want 'independence' from the UK, but they are happy to have 80% of their laws come from Brussels. What's more, Salmond wants to join the Euro. How can an 'independent' Scotland control its economy when interest rates etc are decided by a foreign bank?

Vote UKIP.
119

,

14/08/2008 20:57:01
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14/08/2008 21:49:54
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Reason:
121

BIG EYE,

Paisley 14/08/2008 22:45:24
Yeah might be on to something here that could save the Labour Party.

If every Labour MP, MSP and councillor suddenly became ill then the SNP would have to stop campaigning on a widescale basis.

Why did Gordon Brown not think of this before Glasgow East?
122

Conan the Librarian™,

14/08/2008 22:48:26
187
BIG EYE
LMAO
123

henrymanchester,

UK 14/08/2008 23:45:01
But I know he's a moron, Gordon is a moron.
124

,

15/08/2008 00:44:28
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
125

,

15/08/2008 01:53:46
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
126

Climate change is a fraud,

16/08/2008 20:56:29
The pro-EU SNP shouldn't count their chickens yet.

The Lib-Lab-SNP-Con is unravelling. People can no longer tell the difference between them!

Only UKIP can offer Scotland true independence.

The SNP wants you to believe that being ruled from Brussels is 'independence' for Scotland. Nonsense. The EU creates 80% of our laws. Mr Salmond also wants us to adpot the Euro. How can Scotland be a master of its own destiny when it is shackled to the one-size-fits-all Euro? Scotland won't be able to set her own interest rates; she won't be have any control. We will be at the mercy of foreign eurocrats in another country!

Don't believe the SNP's lies, they are no better than NuLiebour.

Vote UKIP in the Glenrothes by-election; vote UKIP in the 2009 Euro Elections!
127

vitesse_skye,

portree 20/08/2008 18:23:35
"What's the (SNP) 'grandplan' for Glenrothes, then?"

The SNP grand plan for Glenrothes will include :

Abolishing the council tax for all residents in the constituency. Putting 100million pounds into the housing sector in Scotland of which Glenrothes will surely benefit and as an ex resident of Caskieberran and Macedonia I know that the residents of those areas would love that. Putting more police on the streets of the town. Investing in education that will benefit the students at Glenwood High Glenrothes High and Auchmuty not to mention Glenrothes Technical College. The n when the students leave to go to university to have the possibility to gain their degrees with little or no student debt at the end of it. The SNP will not allow Post offices to be closed when pensioners need to cash their pension each week. The air will be cleaner due to the renewable energy targets which are some of the strictest in the EU. The chairman of Tullis Russell paper mill has come out for the SNP this week saying that they are saving local jobs with the planning for the new biomass plant which will save thousands of pounds in money. Thousands of tonnes in carbon emissions that Glenrothes people would have to breathe in and many jobs in the town. There is more if you need it.These are not pre election promises. These are policies that are making life better for the people of Glenrothes now no matter who they decide to vote for....they have been or are being put in place as per the manifesto that elected the SNP in one year. Before this Glenrothes was a concrete jungle. The Tories closed the pits and made many miners from the town unemployed. Fife has one of the highest rates of heroin use per capita in the EU. Often you hear the words no hope no dope in Glenrothes. Hope is bubbling through the cracks in the concrete. The hope for change is being felt in the town. Hope will feed the addiction for more and the people will vote for the SNP like their brothers and fellow sufferers in G
128

jimboo,

East Wemyss (Glenrothes Constituency) 22/08/2008 13:54:00
The quality of the four main contenders will be poor, all party loyalists. The nationalists in power in Fife though are horrendous in their areas with a mass transfer of funds from Labour voting areas to Nationalist areas. The closure of Homeless units in Nationalist councillors areas and moving people from the hostels into private flats.These Hostels are the first step back for many using drugs and now they will be abandoned in mini ghetos. The hypocracy of Tricia Marwick is astounding as she made her living with shelter. I dont think Grant will be much better the only good thing being it gets him off the council.
awe chancers

 

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