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Bobbies on the beat DO cut crime

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Published Date: 14 January 2008
SOME of Scotland's most crime-ridden areas have seen a massive reduction in offences following the return of bobbies on the beat.
In some areas, crime rates have fallen by a fifth since old-fashioned street patrols were introduced, The Scotsman can reveal.

Bringing back regular foot patrols by uniformed officers who know the area and the people – a method not used in Edinburgh since the early 1990s – has produced one of the Lothian and Borders force's biggest success stories, and further fuelled the debate over front-line policing in Scotland.

A similar picture has emerged in Glasgow, where serious assaults fell by 38 per cent last year in city-centre zones that were flooded by extra police foot patrols at nights and weekends.

The huge success of the beat-bobby approach in Scotland's two biggest cities has triggered calls for more officers to patrol residential areas in cities and towns across the country.

Joe Grant, the secretary of the Scottish Police Federation, said there was a "paradigm shift" towards more beat patrols, after 20 years of officers being drained away from front-line community policing and towards meeting new specialist demands placed on the service, such as drug squads, child protection units and the monitoring of sex offenders.

"I get the sense that the paradigm is shifting, where we are starting to redefine and realise what our primary policing role is," he said. "That is prevention of crime. The question is how we do that, and one of the answers, undoubtedly, is by adopting the high-profile patrolling model."

Jackie Muller, secretary of the federation's Lothian and Borders branch, said police would be able to tackle antisocial behaviour and the fear of crime if more officers were tasked with patrolling residential areas, as well as town and city centres. "My membership are telling me they would be able to give a better service to the public if they were out in the communities in which they serve," she said.

Amid concerns over the high level of crime in the centre of Edinburgh, senior officers decided to create four beats, covering approximately one square mile, from Lothian Road to Holyrood Park.

Each beat has a specific team of officers, headed by an experienced sergeant and including at least one youth action officer, a crime prevention expert and a licensing officer. Crucially, they also have up to a dozen uniformed officers who carry out round-the-clock patrols on foot and bicycle. The same officers work the same beats, so they get to know the local business people and residents – as well the main troublemakers.

The number of police on patrol reaches its height at weekends, when more than 60 officers, some of whom have been specially funded by Edinburgh city council, are out in force – about 20 more than was the case before the beats were set up.

The number of crimes across the area has dropped from 5,887 between 1 April and 31 November, 2006, to 5,030 over the same period last year – a drop of 15 per cent. Over the same period, the number of thefts was down 18 per cent, from 1,876 to 1,533, while shoplifting cases fell about 10 per cent.

Around the Royal Mile, including Hunter Square – one of the biggest hotspots for drugs and nuisance begging – the number of reported crimes fell 20 per cent, from 2,811 to 2,242.

Inspector Bruce Johnston said the key to reducing crime and making people safe was to use the same officers.

He said: "They know the problems, they know the public, and the public know him or her. It's a return to the old, with the help of new, intelligence-led methods. And it is working.

"Other places may well have different problems to Edinburgh city centre, but I think this would work elsewhere."

In Glasgow, the number of police officers who patrol the heart of the city, to which 100,000 people flock every weekend, has quadrupled from about 15 or 20 to some 75.

Chief Superintendent David Christie, the commander of the Glasgow central division, said this had had a "significant" effect on crime rates. "Last year, violent crimes were down 38 per cent in the specific areas where we put extra officers. There's been a sea change," he said.

It is understood much of the cost of upping front-line officer numbers in Glasgow will come from a reduction of middle-management officers, such as superintendents, at Strathclyde Police's headquarters in the city.

The success of the beat-bobby strategy has put more pressure on the SNP to deliver on its manifesto commitment to pay for an extra 1,000 officers. The Scottish Government has said it will fund 500 additional officers, with the remainder coming from cutting red tape and dissuading other staff from retiring.

Bill Aitken, the Scottish Conservatives' justice spokesman, said: "This demonstrates what we have been saying all along – that a highly visible police presence reduces and deters crime, and this is why it is absolutely vital that the Scottish Government keeps its promise of 1,000 new police officers."

However, one criminology expert urged caution. Susan McVie, a senior research fellow at the University of Edinburgh's school of law, said that, while putting officers on the beat could be an effective strategy, it was liable to frighten members of the public if managed incorrectly.

She said: "Having more police on the streets can be effective, if it's modelled in the right way. There can be a direct cause-and- effect on crime rates if officers are deployed in certain areas, such as nightclubs, late at night, when they act as a preventative measure, but are also able to stop incidents in mid-flow.

"However, having police patrol housing estates and general public areas can be a waste of time. It does not prevent antisocial behaviour, and can frighten residents, such as older people, into thinking crime is ongoing. In such cases, having more police on the beat can be a self-perpetuating problem."

The full article contains 1017 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 13 January 2008 11:52 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Law and Order
 
1

Conan the Librarian™,

14/01/2008 00:15:18
"Having more police on the streets can be effective..."

Duh.
2

Sanny,

Glasgow. 14/01/2008 00:29:42
I think Susan McVie give a clear demonstration of the fundamental problem of taking advice from academic pen pushers with little or no street experience:
Quote
“"However, having police patrol housing estates and general public areas can be a waste of time. It does not prevent antisocial behaviour, and can frighten residents, such as older people, into thinking crime is ongoing. In such cases, having more police on the beat can be a self-perpetuating problem." Endqoute
What sort of rubbish has she studied to come up with the idea that the sight of frequent police patrols will frighten residents and the elderly? May I suggest she’s and expert in crap statements? As an OAP it is the absence of foot patrols that worries me on dark nights. If this over-educated idiot is paid out of public funds may I say that the money would be better spent on a couple of extra foot patrols.
3

Douglas,

Bathgate 14/01/2008 01:12:28
Might I hazard a guess that Ms McVie is a neighbour of a senior police officer and so has no issues with a shortage of regular patrols and regards "housing estates" as extensions of war zones where the residents deserve all they get for being "other waged" and have, if you can believe this yah, no degree!
4

Arabdownsouth,

14/01/2008 01:21:06
#3 Completely agree with you - what a ludicrous comment from McVie.I bet she thought it made her sound clever and as if she had actually researched something. God knows what sort of students she is helping educate with such nonsense.
I wonder how many OAP's she actually questioned.
5

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta... captured Mexican territory 1845 14/01/2008 01:43:03
#1, #2.

Dudes ,
U belong to the brigade of negativity by ur comments..

Both of U could have said .. Fantastic ..or Great..or we agree etc..

Instead its the same old negativity that flood these posts.

Are U lot all so depressed u cannot be positive for a few minutes.. I know U live in an province with almost no sunshine.

Change ur outlook and SMILE .

GC
6

Jim Baxter RIP,

Sai Kung, Hong Kong 14/01/2008 01:46:22
Hong Kong has never deviated from having a very strong visible police presence on the streets and this has been maintained for over 50 years now. You cannot go more than half an hour here without seeing a patrolling officer or a police emergency vehicle sitting in busy areas. Crime here is very low indeed and the streets are safe whatever time of day and, yes, even in housing estates of which we have many.
You see officers patrolling high rise buildings and often see road blocks at night. We have no vandalisim or graffiti here, none at all. There is a draw back however in that the police are very well paid and this is a huge cost the Government but it appears to be worth it as this is probably the safest major city in the world with a population just over 7 million. You could learn a lot from HK.
7

frank mcbride,

lusitania 14/01/2008 01:54:33
#1, CG

You would have to agree that this has been SNP policy since the '80s.

I stood as an SNP candidate in Stirling, at that time, advocating this very policy. Unfortunately, none of the Unionist Alliance candidates did.
8

W Smith,

Middle East 14/01/2008 03:30:37
What does this headline say about the average IQ of the Scots.

We used to have 'zero tolerance' in Scotland in the fifties and sixties - except in those days it was just called 'policing'.

#8 Frank
Well done - seriously.

That doesn't change the following:

1) The SNP were out demonstrating in front of the US Consulate in Edinburgh on behalf of a bunch of thugs...sorry .. I mean freedom fighters. I have to say freedom fighters or my comment gets removed!

2) The Australian guy Hicks who was released from Guatanamo Bay showed no signs of torture - and even if he was who, apart from the loony left SNP, cares.

3) A few years ago, when a Scottish expat was jailed and tortured in Saudi, Salmond the patriot kept quiet.

4) The SNP's Osama Saeed encouraged students at Dundee Uni not to cooperate with Special Branch. Thats how much he cares about law and order.

Again, Salmond kept quiet as he made his way down to Westminster to vote against anti-terror laws.

Is it war on terror with the SNP or war on law and order?
9

Ross Fyffe,

Scotland 14/01/2008 04:38:20
the SNP are found to be wanting here,
10

Just an opinion,

USA 14/01/2008 04:39:50
You gotta love it!!!
#1 is on the ball.
#6, surprise, surprise, I thought he/she was TREMENDOUS!!
Right out of Donald Sutherland's spoof portrayal in the movie 'Kellys' Heroes', #6 rises from his hammock where he has better things to do, and tells us with his pot filled flower power ( I know that came later ) wisdom.
But he has a point, although #1 wins the set - let us say 13-11, a close encounter!!!!!!!
11

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta... captured Mexican territory 1845 14/01/2008 05:14:53
Hey Dudes,

Did those two cops (bobbies) ask that pigeon when its next flight was ??

Check it out Dudes

GC
12

Royster,

14/01/2008 05:58:31
Susan McVie is a fool.
13

Jimmy the Pie,

14/01/2008 06:05:00
There are obviously not enough police, otherwise Wendy would be behind bars.
Is Corntonvale Prison the only wimin's prison in Scotland?
Will Wendy be a 'trusty'?
How long will she get?
14

calum,

14/01/2008 06:27:58
It what the ordinary officers wants and its what the public want, and every poll or questionnaire issued in the last 20 years has confirmed that. Why has there been a resistance amongst police senior officers and politicians to accept that. The effort to have to come up with new ideas saw the traditional beat system with officers working from boxes or community offices in the areas where they were needed thrown out in order to set up knee jerk squads to get instant results. The long term sustainable answer to crime reduction and addressing the fear of crime is officers on foot who are known, who are visible and who are effective.
15

,

14/01/2008 07:31:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
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16

donald,

glasgow 14/01/2008 07:32:30
Yes it is harder for them to carry their loot than hide it in the back of the wagon.
17

,

14/01/2008 07:35:43
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
18

,

14/01/2008 08:08:57
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
19

Rambo_the_Jambo,

Somewhere in Edinburgh 14/01/2008 08:42:28
# 16 Ciderman 542000

Correct.

It's 'The Polis'.
20

Unimpressed one,

14/01/2008 08:45:25
#3, #4,#5 You all hit the nail on the head. So we can infer from this that the schemies won't have much to worry about there then.
21

Rambo_the_Jambo,

Somewhere in Edinburgh 14/01/2008 08:46:44
What is a "paradigm shift" towards more beat patrols?

Is this different from a night shift?

Seriously, it is blindingly obvious that regular street patrols cut crime. In this area drunken teenage vandalism has all but disappeared because of the excellent work done by the LBP Youth Action Team, together with officers on the beat.

Keep it up and increase the number of regular patrols.
22

joppa jock,

Huntingdon 14/01/2008 08:59:12
Perhaps putting police officers back on the beat might encourage recruiting. Few fit young people want a job that consists of boring and stupid paperwork that does nothing but aggravate the public.
23

Boggle fey the Bog,

14/01/2008 09:09:59
#16 & 18 Ciderman, still in the cider tun.
We all suspected you didn't have a 'Bobbie'!

Wee Windy may not be going to Corton, but even if the EC doesn't have her indited, their have been several complaints made to the relevant police authorities, who, no doubt will investigate, and given that she has already admitted breaking the law, then no doubt some form of legal sanctions will be taken against her.

As for AS at least he has got the guts to appear before a 'committee' unlike Henry or Black Jack, note that the First Minister agreed to appear, although the 'committee has no powers to 'subpoena' him.

As for quoting Nicol 'Who' Stephens, (as Cleggy would say), well shows just how amoebic your thought process had become!!!

GalacticCanibal, Keep blowing the pot dude, your incoherent ramblings give us all a wee giggle.

Anywho, BOT, Mrs McVie is talking pure septic tank content, most of her research centres round 'youth crime' in Embra.

From the Embra Uni website:-
'Susan began as Senior Research Fellow on the Edinburgh Study in January 1998, and became a Co-Director in 2005. Susan has responsibility for strategic management of the research programme and plays a key role in advancing statistical analysis of the data and producing publications.'

Well, statistical analysis, like all stats, not the real world.

Nice to see the Police Federation waffling on about all the things that they have to do, and then, in a sort of absentminded way, say Oh Yeah, we now realise that we are also supposed to try to 'Prevent Crime' from happening.

Pity they didn't do this 20 odd years ago, then again at that time they were 'Thatchers Black Shirts' bought and paid for, charged with destroying the fabric of 'Society' after all Maggie stated that there was no such thing as 'Society'.

It now appears that what most people have been saying for the last 30 years, would appear to be correct, in that if you have 'Bobbies' on the beat, and that means the same 'Bobbi
24

Boggle fey the Bog,

14/01/2008 09:18:14
cont.......It now appears that what most people have been saying for the last 30 years, would appear to be correct, in that if you have 'Bobbies' on the beat, and that means the same 'Bobbies' so that the citizens can get to know them and more importantly so they can get to know the citizens, and the 'ne'er do wells'. crime rates drop, now there's a surprise.

Next thing is to bring back proper discipline in schools, and enforcement of parental responsibilities.

Aye, and who knows bringing back 'the belt' may even bring back a few jobs to Lochgelly ;-).
25

Number 6,

Germany 14/01/2008 09:24:22
You can't have too many police on the beat, especially in this most savage of ages. Mcvie is living in her politically correct , Labour blown bubble
and is the last person we should be listening to. I hope the SNP takes this further and positively floods our estates with Police.

Who decided that Police should be put back on the beat ? I like the idea of slashing middle management and pen-pushers to pay for it. I'm sure there is plenty more money that can be freed to fight crime with a few more rounds of waster culling.

Are you watching Labour ?.
26

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 14/01/2008 09:55:42
You see, knee-jerk reactions in creating loads of laws do not work. Neither do you need laws to stop people breaking the law.

All you need is a police presence and people are "encouraged" to behave themselves. That way you don't need to create laws that restrict the freedom of ordinary people and have no effect on the trouble-makers. You just enforce the existing laws as they stand.
27

Gothic Rose,

14/01/2008 10:04:39
G.C.#Whats negative about 1`s remark.? Its called a dry sense of humour.
28

Highland Mighty,

14/01/2008 10:31:28
Tomorrow it is revealed that water is wet and a punch in the face DOES offend.
29

C.U. Jimmy,

The Original and Best C.U. Jimmy 14/01/2008 10:36:59
You mean to say that all those billions spent on CCTV cameras supposedly to reduce crime have just proved to be a total waste of taxpayers' money.

There's a surprise - unless of course preventing crime wasn't the real objective behind those cameras...
30

Horrible Cankers..dans le Cyber Shebeen,

14/01/2008 10:45:23
"Bobbies on the beat DO cut crime"......no sh*t Sherlock......!
31

Dood,

14/01/2008 10:59:46
Aye, all very well in theory.....

What you don't get the mention of thought is that in Lothian and Borders, a significant number of those patrolling the new city centre unit will have been abstracted from other areas of the city which, in turn suffer. There are no extra officers in the grand scheme of things.

Therefore, your Wester Hailes, Craigmillar.... continue to spiral out of control. Meanwhile the high profile city centre continues to prosper.

It's a con.
32

morris,

edinburgh 14/01/2008 11:03:29
Policemen reduce crime by being present.Wow!

I think every single person in Scotland knew this apart form the numpties who were in Government (but then some of them are allegedly criminals ,and biased therefore).
Of course they reduce crime.Not even a Nu Labour idiot is going to commit a crime with PC Plod watching!Its hardly rocket science is it!Doh!

33

tomislav,

home 14/01/2008 11:09:27
Fair comment, but surely lasting effectiveness of Police on the streets can only be enjoyed if the court system gets a similar does of reality
34

,

14/01/2008 11:17:10
Comment Removed By Administrator
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35

morris,

edinburgh 14/01/2008 11:19:49
36
If this is correct,and Im not saying you are wrong(as they must come from somewhere presumably),perhaps the answer is a combination of this visible presence policy,and plain clothes extras and targeting a particular area chosen at random for each night, and absolutely flooding it .ie NOT ONLY CITY CENTRES
The neds have no idea therefore, how many policemen are around,anywahere,but a few resulting convictions,in each scheme, should soon penetrate even the total brain dead society, and teach them,do it and you could definitely be nailed. Feeling lucky punk?
36

Proximaking,

Dundee 14/01/2008 11:29:34
And of course we could effectively double the number of bobbies on the beat by ensuring they do what police officers have always done ..... go out on the beat alone. Your picture gives the game away, the li'l lady being looked after by the male officer. If she can't go out on the beat alone, or won't go out on the beat alone then why is she in the police force? Women officers in the 70's went out on the beat alone but then they had to meet certain height restrictions that the PC brigade decided we could do without. At a stroke we could double police on the beat if we insisted that operating alone was the norm again. And if some officers don't want to then perhaps it is time for them to get out of the force and into a more sedate job like walking up and down the streets doing nothing all day in an overpaid job they can retire in at 50 and then receive a wholly unearned index-linked pension for, ..... on second thoughts they are in the right job already then.
37

morris,

edinburgh 14/01/2008 11:39:48
39

He has a perfectly proper entitlement to be involved as the MP for the constituency.Its his job you idiot!Had this been any other WESTMINSTER parliamentary seat , than the corresponding WESTMINSTER seat,then you would be correct.His involvement then could only then be as First minister (and MSP) and as SCOTLANDS first minsister would have questions to answer for.

If the MP for this seat, was not also the first minister,he would have, not only the right to intervene but it would be failing his constituents if he did not do so.
The same rules apply to Alex Salmond as would apply to anybody else being the Westminster MP for THIS SEAT ! You cannot have different rules just because he is also an MSP and First Minister.


He is subject to rules which cover him as First Minister,but the Westminster MP cannot be covered by those rules,since the Westminster MP is not a member of the Scottish parliament (even when its the same person)
Were he only First Minister and MSP then he would indeed have questions to answer.
HE ISN'T AND HE DOES'NT .

Its fairly easy to understand but that obviously lets you out!

In any case he acted with total support from his constituents, and they are judge and jury here.Rumour has it that Salmond could stand in every seat in the North East and win every single one of them!
38

Douglas Eckhart,

Edinburgh 14/01/2008 11:45:01
39 - Ciderman:

Your arguments don't follow here mate:

Alex Salmond has NOT been acccused of taking money personally over Trump. His only crime is trying to secure investment in Scotland.

Wendy Alexander's Team (and possibly herself) on the otherhand HAS been caught taking money...*personally* - now THAT'S sleaze.

Don't like facing up to that one do you?


39

Louisa,

14/01/2008 12:04:44
Jolly good - but let's hope that the police 'on the beat' are allowed to approach the likely twerps and deal with them in the appropriate manner - ie not the politically correct/inclusive waffle.
Mrs McVie appears to think that despite the enormous reduction in street crime reported she warns more police on the beat "could be effective" and by seeing police in housing estates this could be more frightening than gangs of oiks - excuse me? Perhaps she would like to tell us what direct positive effects any of her research has had on reducing youth crime in Scotland as she appears to be alone in her opinion in the article above.
40

Number 6,

Germany 14/01/2008 13:17:41
ciderman#39 You seem to be the latest in a long line of anti-independence advocates who have failed miserably to land a metaphorical punch on the "Parlimentarian of the year". It's LABOUR who lie beaten in the corner, battered stupid politically by the SNP and now just waiting for the knock on the door.

In case you forget, under Labour, Scotland has become the most violent country in europe, all due to their pc saturated policies. "Tough on crime etc etc " they bleated , yet nothing could be further from the truth.

No one can deny that crime figures are falling under the SNP. Rejoice in these facts instead of trying to
give this good news story a negative spin.
41

Joey Pica,

Ashton under Lyne 14/01/2008 13:20:23
"Bobbies on the beat DO cut crime"

Experiment over - back to the desks and vehicles guys.
It can only take one to stop a crime - while tens of people are needed to solve and prosecute etc.

42

A Copper,

Glasgow 14/01/2008 14:08:56
Its obvious most of you don't have a clue what goes on or what the police actually do most of your dealings with the police seem to stem from getting some form of ticket.

Yes police officers on the beat reduce crime, but to do this we need more officers, there is a genuine shortage of police officers on front line duties and another 1000 would make only a small improvement,

Officers have to patrol in twos for corroboration, also in this day and age a lot of the undesirables we have to deal with are instructed to make complaints about arresting offices to try and lessen the case against them. In the days when the public had respect for its Police service this would never have happened so one officer could patrol alone. (You can trust a thief but you cant trust a Junkie)

The way forward yes more police on the street, but do this by employing more officers and ensure they are paid a wage which reflects the fact they work shifts covering 24/7 365 days a year and take into consideration the risk that officer take everyday.

43

A Copper,

Glasgow 14/01/2008 14:17:37
#45 Number 6
"No one can deny that crime figures are falling under the SNP. Rejoice in these facts instead of trying to
give this good news story a negative spin."

I think you will find that most of the initiative that have reduced the crime figures were dreamt up long before SNP got into power, in my opinion who is in power makes no difference to front line policing, other than general moral
44

Richard of Hove,

Brighton 14/01/2008 14:34:18
"Bobbies on the beat DO cut crime"

No, once again fooled by the "Plod Delusion"
45

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 14/01/2008 14:41:43
#19 Colin R

Despite your amusing conspiracy theories and unusual paranoia, for once you've hit the nail on the head. Senior police management is poor and getting worse. Increasingly, it has little experience of or touch with realities on the ground and spends too much time bothering about the latest political correctness and management w*nkspeak. You're behind the times in believing in some continued Masonic conspiracy. The new 'secret society' is made up of the brothers and sisters of the Accelerated Promotion gang. Primarily middle class, graduate careerists who don't join to police but to manage. Obsessed with self advancement, they change for changes sake and are destroying morale as a result. Old style bosses, with a genuine knowledge of policing, detection and an appreciation of what the public actually wants and needs are a very endangered species.
46

,

14/01/2008 15:02:54
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
47

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta... captured Mexican territory 1845 14/01/2008 15:04:08
31
Gothic Rose,
14/01/2008 10:04:39
G.C.#Whats negative about 1`s remark.? Its called a dry sense of humour.
---------------------------------------------------

Question for U dude,

What is more pleasurable?

A Rose on a PIANO or Tulips on an ORGAN.

Hey Dude that pigeon left on its flight to Edinburgh before sunset.

Its sunrise where I am and another 23°C day with 10 hours sunshine.

GC

48

old soldier,

Muir-of-Ord 14/01/2008 15:32:10
I would think that the oppisite would happen to the statement can frighten residents, such as older people, into thinking crime is ongoing.
49

H215,

New York 14/01/2008 16:05:28
I agree with the other posters about the value of beat patrols.

Here in NYC they reestablished patrols, and crime went down drastically. Several reasons given - 1. criminals know they're being watched, 2. residents establish relationships with regular officers, and become willing to share info, 3. officers realize that only a small percentage of the residents are scum, and that most are OK.

Under the previous policy (squad cars responding to emergency calls), generally speaking the cops only encountered scum, and ended up thinking the whole neighborhood was scum, which made relations difficult all around. (And not blaming cops, and yes this is filled with generalizations).

And finally, when the neighborhood is filled with people of different ethnicity/identity than the cops, the policy of using beat patrols allows residents and cops the time to get to know each other as people, BEFORE incidents, so that stress and accusations are reduced.

That woman should be ashamed of herself, for twisting things so. People LOVE seeing cops on the beat.
50

Highland Mighty,

14/01/2008 16:07:22
45. And yet ANOTHER nationalist who actually lives overseas!

Anyway, this 'Number 6,Germany' says "In case you forget, under Labour, Scotland has become the most violent country in europe, all due to their pc saturated policies."

Really? The most violent country in Europe? Can you perhaps back that up?
51

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 14/01/2008 16:20:10
# 55 Highland Mighty

I take it you don't really keep up to date with the news? By just about every measure, per head of population Scotland, especially the West of Scotland, has more serious assaults and stabbings than any other country in Europe. It was recently revealed that Edinburgh was more violent than Paris for feck's sake. Forget the party political nonsense nad acknowledge the criminal justice system in Scotland is in crisis.
52

Michaela,

Canada 14/01/2008 16:53:24
Scotland tops the UN list as the most violent country in the developed world.

scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/ViewArticle.aspx?articleid=2662349
53

thomas,

midlothian 14/01/2008 18:53:05
policemen on the job cut crime,politicians off the job cuts crime, at least the labour party clowns.
54

BK,

Cyberspace 14/01/2008 20:04:05
So does the Hootsmon think this is headline news?
55

Miss H,

14/01/2008 22:17:36
63 AM2

I agree with what you are saying up to a point but statistics will only give you the level of reported crime, not the actual level of crime. Obviously with things like murder and serious assault most incidents will be reported but with less serious types of crime, and even with some very serious crimes, they may not be reported in many countries because people basically do not have that much trust in the police. So the fact that they do not have the same levels of reported crime as we do does not actually mean that there is less crime.

However whether we are the most violent country in Westerm Europe or just one of the most violent countries in Western Europe is actually not all that important in my view. There is no reason why any of us should accept any level of violence at all whether in our own lives or in our communities. Most of us agree on that, including politicians. We have the potential over the next few years to do something about reducing violent crime and at the risk of sounding like Pollyanna I think people should put their differences aside and work towards the same goal.

The one political point I would make is that the previous government took a bit of a wrong turning by labelling low level crime as anti social behaviour and attempting to tackle it with ASBOs. I understand why that theory might have seemed attractive on paper but it has been a waste of time in real life.

Also, in defence of Susan McVie I think what she says is quite valid: 'Having more police on the streets can be effective, if it's modelled in the right way.'

Of course it has to be modelled in the right way. They need to be available where and when they are needed. I am sure I am not the only one who has had the experience of phoning the police and they turn up 2 hours later when the incident is long over. We need to be in a position when you can phone 999 and have a reasonable expectation of a quick response. Having police plodding the beat where th
56

Miss H,

14/01/2008 22:20:10
Part 2 Having the police plodding the beat in areas where there is a low likelihood of crime being committed would be a waste of everyone's time. The initiatives quoted have been successful because they have been targeted. That is what she is saying and she is quite right.
57

morris,

edinburgh 14/01/2008 22:52:57
48

There is no doubt that we expect far too much from the boys in blue and have never been willing to resource them in manpower or wage structure. I am proud of our police service,but its certainly not getting the support which it needs if its to function as we would like.The criticisms made by yourself are wholly justified,and I do not doubt this for one second
58

Andrew M,

glasgow 14/01/2008 23:29:23
Polis on the street are more effective than polis behind a desk??? Next they will be saying smoking is bad for you.... people have wanted this for a long time, then the SNP stole the Tory policy to recruit more only to break the promise although it didn't take Taggart to figure that would happen!
59

BrianHill,

Edinburgh 15/01/2008 00:21:48
Good policing requires two main elements, one of which has been mentioned, getting to know the residents in their area and the residents getting to know them. Police out of uniform playing football/table tennis/basketball with local youths for example has been tried most successfully in the past.

But unless the policeman on the beat is seen as a friend of the residents instead of an enemy to be circumvented the success of this initiative will be extremely limited. Good policing requires partnership otherwise it becomes us and them which is most unhealthy.

I also think they should have considerable leeway in how they exercise their powers and not be straight-jacketed by PC oriented rules and regulations.

Overall, a welcome move and one which is already having some success by all accounts.
60

Navvy,

15/01/2008 00:56:47
After 20 years we "learn" what we have always known.

Except Susan McVie who is clearly a wooly headed academic with no practical knowledge and nae smeddum.

 

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