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Brown: Banking crisis has proved case for the Union



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Published Date: 15 October 2008
GORDON Brown last night attacked Scottish nationalism by saying that the banking crisis had proven the case for the Union.
The Prime Minister said the underlying message of the rescue package announced this week for banks, including the Scottish giants Royal Bank of Scotland and HBOS, was that Britain was stronger together and weaker apart.

"We have been prepared to step in to make available £37 billion of capital for RBS, and for HBOS and to Lloyds TSB," he said.

"And that is the strength of the Union. It is the Union that makes these things possible, that we are prepared to share the risks as well as the opportunities and when things are difficult we are in a position to support each other – stronger together, weaker apart."

He praised the tradition of Scottish and British banking, adding: "I believe we can rebuild these banks. I believe they will once again become strong institutions."

The Prime Minister said Scottish banks benefited from trading in the Union.

He added: "Let's be clear. The Scottish banking system not only serves Scotland but 80 per cent of its business was with the rest of the United Kingdom. So the Scottish banks were serving English, Welsh as well as Scottish customers.

"That's really the integrated financial market that we have at the moment. We're sharing the risks together and when things go wrong we work together to sort things out. We share the opportunities as well.

"That is indeed the strength of the Union. We are stronger together and weaker apart."

Asked if the bail-out undermined the argument for independence in Scotland, he said: "This is not the time for party political points.

"The important thing is that we were able to act decisively with £37 billion. That would not have been possible with a Scottish administration.

"We've seen the problems in Iceland, we've seen the problems in Ireland.

"We were able to put the whole strength of the United Kingdom's resources behind these two banks and I think it's important because I value the Scottish banking tradition. I think everybody does."

He praised the tradition of Scottish and British banking, adding: "I believe we can rebuild these banks. I believe they will once again become strong institutions."

Meanwhile, First Minister Alex Salmond unveiled a six-point plan last night designed to help Scots avoid the worst effects of looming recession.

A special meeting of the Scottish Government's cabinet focused purely on the economy agreed a series of measures ministers hope to roll out over the next few months. They were:

• Looking at capital projects that can be brought forward from the later years of the parliament and introduced quickly, to stimulate construction and the housing industry.

• Maximising the effect of the Homecoming series of events for next year, acknowledging the importance of tourism as a driver for the Scottish economy and using that to help other sectors.

• Finding ways of improving advice to business and streamlining the planning process.

• Boosting energy efficiency, particularly in vulnerable households.

• Rolling out two pilot projects around the country to help the elderly claim maximum benefits.

• Looking for additional measures to tackle fuel poverty.

Fuller details of the proposals will be announced in the next few days and weeks, with cabinet ministers expected to take advantage of the SNP conference this week to explain some of them.

A spokesman for Mr Salmond said: "The message from cabinet was that the whole economy is going to be impacted by these economic difficulties."

And he added that the six-point plan was designed to "mitigate the impact of the downturn on the real economy".

Labour welcomed the Scottish Government's decision to tackle these issues but said action was more important than talk.

Scottish Labour leader Iain Gray said: "We welcome the fact that the First Minister and SNP have finally turned their attention to stimulating the economy.

"We need to see the detail of Alex Salmond's six-point plan and examine it properly. What is important is this is not all talk and no action."


From zero to superhero in matter of days

IT was a sycophantic question that was more likely to be posed to the regime in Beijing than Britain, but Gordon Brown was quizzed over what it felt like to be a superhero.

He was branded "Flash Gordon" at a press conference with foreign journalists after international leaders including George Bush copied his much-hailed rescue plan.

Although it has taken the near-collapse of capitalism to achieve it, experts believe Mr Brown has bought himself a 5-6 per cent credit-crunch dividend with his bail-out brainchild.

The Prime Minister has been branded a saviour of the global economy after the United States sidelined its original policy to adopt the UK's idea of buying stakes in their ailing banks and EU countries also fell into line with the British way.

Today, Mr Brown will head to Brussels for a European Council meeting with other leaders, where he will try to nail down a co-ordinated attack against financial instability. Plans are also under way for a wider economic summit in the UK in the coming weeks, trailed as a "Bretton Woods- style meeting" – a reference to the conference at the end of the Second World War, which set up a new international monetary system.

Mr Brown's stock rose at a press conference in London with foreign journalists yesterday, during which he was asked taxing questions such as whether he considered himself to be a superhero or Flash Gordon. Mr Brown replied that he was: "Just Gordon, I can assure you."

A source close to the Prime Minister said: "He is embarrassed. Gordon does not take compliments easily."

Mr Brown tried to deflect the praise yesterday by saying: "Politics, I have found, is about ups and downs."

His destiny appeared gloomy just weeks ago, after junior MPs started to openly call for a leadership contest. Since then, there has been a "bounce" but there are still fears in the government that the real impact of the credit crisis has yet to transpire.

Job losses and spending cuts are expected and the Conservatives are basing their fightback strategy on highlighting Mr Brown's inability to avert a recession.

But a Eurostar journey away, Mr Brown was being praised by the president of the European Commission, Jose Manuel Barroso, who has hailed the financial deal being across the world as "the Brown plan". And in the US, Mr Bush announced yesterday that his administration would buy a $250 billion (£140 billion) stake in leading US banks.

"These measures are not intended to take over the free market, but to preserve it," the president said to allay fears that the captain of capitalism was turning into a statist.

The latest winner of the Nobel Prize for economics, Paul Krugman, has praised Mr Brown as the potential saviour of the world's financial system.

In an article entitled Gordon Does Good, the Princeton scholar said Mr Brown and Alistair Darling had "defined the character of the worldwide rescue effort, with other wealthy nations playing catch up".

Nigel Griffiths, the Edinburgh MP who has been campaigning in Glenrothes, said the reaction to Mr Brown had changed remarkably. "If you had asked me ten days ago how it (the by-election] would go, I would have said we had narrowed the gap but the SNP were still ahead. Now, I'm thinking we could win Glenrothes."

GERRI PEEV


Bush and Paulson copy British 'path to prosperity'

GEORGE BUSH yesterday announced a $250 billion (£142 billion) plan to buy stocks in banks in an attempt to return the nation's economy to the "path of growth and prosperity".

In an echo of Gordon Brown's bank bail-out, the US president said the rescue plan was "an essential short-term measure".

Mr Bush also issued a temporary guarantee of "most new debt issued by insured banks" and expanded government insurance to cover most small business accounts.

The United States was taking "unprecedented and aggressive steps" to tackle the financial crisis, and international economic leaders had its "full support", Mr Bush said.

The president added that the decision of European leaders to purchase equity in major banks and provide temporary government guarantees for bank loans were "wise and timely actions."

He said the injection of American capital using money from the $700 billion (£398 billion) rescue plan, seen by many as a Wall Street bail-out, "will help struggling banks fill the hole created by losses during the financial crisis, so they can resume lending and help spur job creation and economic growth".

Mr Bush added: "This is an essential short-term measure to ensure the viability of America's banking system.

"And the programme is carefully designed to encourage banks to buy these shares back from the government when the markets stabilise and they can raise capital from private investors."

Mr Bush's announcement came after the Dow Jones industrial average of blue-chip firms gained more than 11 per cent – its biggest one-day gain since 1933 – in a huge rally yesterday.

Traders reacted with relief to efforts by the US and Europe to inject capital into banks and get lending flowing again.

In the US, Hank Paulson, the Treasury secretary, said his country was buying equity stakes in a "wide variety of banks".

"The government owning a stake in any private US company is objectionable to most Americans, me included," he said.

"Yet the alternative of leaving businesses and consumers without access to financing is totally unacceptable."

He said the lack of confidence in the financial system "must be conquered because it poses an enormous threat to our economy".

"Today's actions are not what we ever wanted to do – but are what we must do to restore confidence to our financial system."

In addition, the Federal Reserve, the US central bank, said it would begin buying short-term debt to break the credit clog on 27 October.

Ben Bernanke, the Fed's chairman, welcomed all the new steps but added that policymakers would continue to take actions as needed to battle the crisis.

"Our strategy will continue to evolve and be refined as we adapt to new developments and the inevitable setbacks," he said.

"But we will not stand down until we have achieved our goals of repairing and reforming our financial system and thereby restoring prosperity to our economy."

The full article contains 1741 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

15/10/2008 00:01:23
Told you they'd do this.
2

Westfield Bairns,

falkirk 15/10/2008 00:03:32
Gordon Brown, Scotlands embarrasment and a prime exammple as to why one should vote SNP
3

Jwil,

15/10/2008 00:04:44
The Times is predicting that 10000 jobs will be shed in the public sector.
4

famous 15,

Edinburgh 15/10/2008 00:10:03
At least Bush Cassidy and the Sundance Kid wore masks. Brown and Darling barefaced bank robbers!
5

ThomasP,

15/10/2008 00:13:07
"GORDON Brown last night attacked Scottish nationalism by saying that the banking crisis had proven the case for the Union."

Perhaps Gordon Brown should explain why Scotland was left exposed to the credit crunch in the first place. Due to poor regulation banks were able to take bigger gambles and they lost!! Considering since Scotland is in the Union AND THEN the rubissh hits the fan I doubt it really is a convincing case why Scotland should remain in the Union when the Union is to blame for the current mess.
6

Richard1,

15/10/2008 00:13:29
The effect of te credit crunch will be more positive in years to come,UK £500bn is a good headline figure but in truth it is only £50bn taxpayer money the rest is liquidity(Printing money,and draining it in a few years time and burning it to stop inflation).

The point is the USA has been giving liquidity of $6 trillion,and more on the way.

The USA will have to raise interest rates dramatically in 2010-2011 as they cannot drain the Dollars they have put out there as they are sitting in the foreign reserve banks(Dollar is reserve currency).Taking this into account the Dollar will strengthen,everything is priced in Dollars Wheat,Metals OIL everthing we use will go down in price in 2010-2015.
7

,

15/10/2008 00:14:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
8

Nevsky,

Moscow 15/10/2008 00:19:44
Personally i am completely aghast that not one Scottish journalist has even attempted to print a balanced view about this man's involvement in the whole afair and the true cost to the economy.

I think i an about to give up on the Scottish press and turn to the English papers for a more balanced and frankly a higher standars of journalism.

Seems that it is not only the Scottish Banks that are losing their reputation!

Personally i believe the people can see through the utter c**p and Glenrothes will show it first!
9

Richard1,

15/10/2008 00:23:49
7,Ireland is playing Russian roulette(LIKE IT!)with the shorts,in the market,they have liabilities 3 times their GDP,if they get called in on it Ireland is in the poor house for good!

I for one would as soon as possible short their banks because the Irish Gov cannot cover the losses,WIN WIN SITUATION FOR TRADERS.
10

slap-dash,

15/10/2008 00:25:35
Why did the "Hootsman" put a big advert for "Suicide Prevention week" next tae the photie of Blunder Broon ?
11

famous 15,

Edinburgh 15/10/2008 00:26:27
"Stronger together weaker apart" said the crocodile to the donkey!
12

famous 15,

Edinburgh 15/10/2008 00:28:53
#9 So you are the genius biting the hide off the RBS and HBOS. You are no friend of Scotland .Begone,loathesome creature!
13

Incandescent,

15/10/2008 00:29:39
#1 INDEED YOU DID! (yes I am shouting)

You said this from the very beginning. If I were wearing a hat I'd take it off to you. In fact, you are the modern Nostradamus.
14

Boy Wonder,

15/10/2008 00:29:49
Hands up who didn't see this coming!!!
15

Richardinho,

15/10/2008 00:32:30
So basically Gordon's saying that capitalism doesn't work if it needs a massive state to bail it out periodically.
16

gothenburg glory,

aberdeen 15/10/2008 00:35:15
You nats really take the biscuit.
I always thought you lived in an economic fantasy world (remember your penny for Scotland) and your comments tonight prove it.
Face facts. Irish,icelandic banks and norwegian banks have all suffered in the last few weeks.
Scottish banks have been bailed out by the UK exchequer - (it hurts doesn't it my separatist friends) unlike Iceland we havent had to go cap in hand to Putin's Russia. As for Ireland have a look at the budget your favourite celtic tiger had to introduce today. Oh and Norway's had to borrow cash from the international financial authorities too - oil fund or no oil fund.

I know why you're all as mad as hell because deep in your hearts you realise that your cause of winning an independence referendum bit the dust on Monday.
For all of your First Minister's bluster and empty talk of an independent scotland bailing out RBS and HBOS - its all so much fantasy...and the vast majority of Scots know that - so roll on the referendum - bring it on in fact!

17

Peter Curran,

Kirkliston 15/10/2008 00:38:05
"GORDON Brown last night attacked Scottish nationalism by saying that the banking crisis had proven the case for the Union."

It does nothing of the sort. Firstly, what Brown has done, any British government would have done, and any national government with any sense - he bailed out the banks. There was no other choice except meltdown. The only reason the Americans are shamefacedly expressing their admiration for his plan are the facts that a lame duck Republican President and administration are facing an election, their candidate is looking increasingly shaky, they have a deep-rooted distaste for anything that smacks of socialism, and have been making a God-awful, acrimonious mess of their own rescue plan.

Secondly, although the global crisis has its roots in the American sub-prime market, Brown contributed in major part the British - and Scottish - shambles by his starry-eyed admiration for Wall Street and his failure to regulate the growing excesses of the finance industry and the banks. Not for nothing is he Thatcher's number one fan - after all, this is the woman who set the whole dirty snowball rolling and growing by deregulating the market and the banks.

Thirdly, no one can say how an independent Scotland would have been placed in this crisis had they achieved statehood at the time of devolution, or even earlier. We can only look to Norway for indicators as to how we might have been able to handle it.

Lastly, Brown and his henchmen, Gray and Murphy, betray their contempt for the country of their birth every time they open their mouths - a contempt that rejects utterly the proposition the Scots men and women have the ability to run their own affairs. That contempt lost them power in Scotland in 2007, and it will be their undoing.

When contemplating Brown's temporary celebrity in foreign countries, let us remember that Thatcher and Blair enjoyed a similar celebrity before their downfalls.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nZJuIO6KhMY
http://www.yo
18

Richard1,

15/10/2008 00:42:33
UK governemnt debt with PFI,with Bailout is about 46% of GDP,(1 pct is £14.5bn)

USA debt/gdp 80%
France 70%
Germany 68%
Itlay 110%
Japan 190%
UK 46%

UK deficit next year could reach 4%+

Bloomberg announced yesterday USA deficit next year will be $2 trillion.
19

Col. Blimp­IV*,

15/10/2008 00:52:48


Nobody will want to own shares in a company that will not be paying a dividend for the next four or more years.

Pretty soon Broon will have bought a controlling interest in all the Banks anyone has ever heard of(with borrowed money)...his shares will be worthless and the treasury will be broke.

What is the next move...amalgamation and "rationalisation"?

The capitalist system is no longer built on the intrinsic value of the commodities traded but on the market established price it can be sold on for, this is supported by the single pillar of confidence.

Confidence takes years to establish but can evaporate overnight.

A £40million Van Gough painting
is only really worth about £200, as something to put on that big empty looking space on your living room wall.

It can only be sold at the ridiculously overvalued price when the buyer is confidant that it will retain and hopefully increase its resale potential.

Hilariously it probably will, even when the rest of us are fighting over mouldy turnips.

The inevitable consequence of the demise of socialism.

Thanks Gordo...you're a Star.
20

,

15/10/2008 00:57:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
21

Castaway,

15/10/2008 01:00:46
Norway's sovereign wealth fund grew to a preliminary $364.2 billion in August 08,which equates to approx $78,711 for every person living in Norway.

Current account balance(est 2007)1-188 countries
7 Norway plus $ 64,070,000,000
186 UK minus 119,200,000,000

GDP Oct 2008 1-191 countries
4 Norway $ 47,800
21 UK $ 31,400
22

Richardinho,

15/10/2008 01:02:41
#16
"Scottish banks have been bailed out by the UK exchequer - (it hurts doesn't it my separatist friends) unlike Iceland we havent had to go cap in hand to Putin's Russia."

Well by your logic we've had to go cap and hand to England. At least Putin isn't asking Iceland to give up it's sovereignty.
23

Incandescent,

15/10/2008 01:05:55
This is all a bit heavy for this time of night - far more entertaining would be to offer your support on this thread from yesterday's EEN. We have a live upstart.

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Notorious-yobs39-reign-of-terror.4588214.jp#3336062
24

Richard1,

15/10/2008 01:10:56
21,UK current account was published 2 weeks ago it is £10bn for the quarter.

Also UK has a fund of its own it is called $316bn of USA bonds,which although are not paid out for years like a trust fund you cannot get out until you are 21 and you are 18!,it is still a massive investmEnt for the UK's future.

STOP MAKING UP FIGURES FOOL.
25

Bring it Off,

UK 15/10/2008 01:15:30
"I will not allow house prices to get out of control and put at risk the sustainability of the recovery."
Gordon Brown's 1997 Budget Statement

"Under this Government, Britain will not return to the boom and bust of the past."
Pre-Budget Report, 9th November 1999

"Britain does not want a return to boom and bust."
Budget Statement, 21 March 2000

"So our approach is to reject the old vicious circle of the...the old boom and bust."
Pre-Budget Report, 8 November 2000

"Mr Deputy Speaker we will not return to boom and bust."
Budget Statement, 7 March 2001

"As I have said before Mr Deputy Speaker: No return to boom and bust."
Budget Statement, 22 March 2006

"And we will never return to the old boom and bust."
Budget Statement, 21 March 2007

Is this the SAMR GORDON BROWN
26

Richard1,

15/10/2008 01:19:00
21,Also stop using GDP (PPP) figure's as these are spending power figure's,they detract from UK spending as UK has a large mortgage base to pay,also which turns into as asset,currently estimated with the house price falls at £6 trillion.

If you want to use Nominal Gdp which every country of earth bases it on UK has a $3 trillion Gdp,USA has a $14 trillion Gdp,USA has fives times the population of GDP,so 5*3=15,notice the UK GDP is bigger per head than USA FACT!!!.

OH! and Germany,and France also.
27

Incandescent,

15/10/2008 01:19:30
#25 USA bonds? Do you have learning difficulties?
28

Bring it Off,

UK 15/10/2008 01:22:20
#29 completey agree the worst investment you could be holding the US$ will collapse the Chinese are going to buy Gold not US treasuries as they know they are going to be worthless in 30 years doh!
29

Bring it Off,

UK 15/10/2008 01:22:49
Here is Gordons offer :

http://www.order-order.com/2008/10/gordon-come-campaign-with-me-in.html
30

Westfield Bairns,

falkirk 15/10/2008 01:24:39
26
I agree, cringeworthy, however they have mostly learned from the Scotland branch of Nulabor who never miss a chance to put the boot into Scotland. How must that look to anyone from different Nationalities, cringe, cringe, cringe
31

,

15/10/2008 01:25:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
32

Nevsky,

Moscow 15/10/2008 01:27:27
23 Bring it On#

'Thanks to Gordon for putting in place the Norway model'..pity he didn't do it 10 years ago and pity Scotlan did not do it 30 years ago!
33

Richard1,

15/10/2008 01:31:58
29,google Uk is the 3rd largest holder of USA T_BILLS (BONDS)

this comes direct from the US Treasury.

DO YOU HAVE LEARNING DIFFICULTIES?
34

Incandescent,

15/10/2008 01:35:51
"Google UK" Spot the difference there champ? Those guys are smart in a way we can't comprehend, that's why they are PERSONALLY worth more than 5 BILLION dollars EACH. They don't have learning difficulties and have cunningly limited their exposure to market fluctuations. You? You're simply a tool with a big mouth.
35

Incandescent,

15/10/2008 01:38:18
Taking a bit of research there champ?
36

Richard1,

15/10/2008 01:39:46
36,AND YOU ARE A DUMMY!

I TAKE NOTICE OF WORLD EVENTS,TRUE WORLD EVENTS NOT WANNABE ALEX SALMOND'S MAKING UP FIGURES,SOUND FAMILIAR?
37

Incandescent,

15/10/2008 01:42:23
#38 Couldn't find anything then?
38

Incandescent,

15/10/2008 01:45:18
I didn't mention politics - simply the fact that US bonds have NEVER been less reliable. Where did your Alex Salmond rant fit into that? Does he own a controlling interest in Google UK? No. Didn't think so. Tool.
39

,

15/10/2008 01:47:23
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
40

Incandescent,

15/10/2008 01:48:19
Oooooh - desperate research on Google going on here I'm guessing...
41

Incandescent,

15/10/2008 01:49:13
Or perhaps the last 100 yeras of US bonds performance? I want a graph. Nothing else will suffice.
42

Incandescent,

15/10/2008 01:51:38
#38 HAH! You are a blowhard - nothing more. Stick to your political trolling.
43

Castaway,

15/10/2008 01:55:40
#25 -STOP MAKING UP FIGURES FOOL.
Current account balance(est 2007)1-188 countries(CIA figures)
7 Norway plus $ 64,070,000,000
186 UK minus 119,200,000,000
GDP Oct 2008 1-191 countries (Source: CIA World Factbook)
4 Norway $ 47,800
21 UK $ 31,400

I could give you the url's ?
44

Incandescent,

15/10/2008 02:00:26
#45 adjusting the inflation would certainly offer a more comfortable seat for Richard1.
45

Richard1,

15/10/2008 02:00:32
49,(ppp)FIGURES'THESE PUT CHINA 2ND LARGEST ECONOMY IN THE WORLD,INDIA 4TH,NOMINAL IS USED FOR GDP,AGAIN STOP MAKING THINGS UP!

IF CHINA OR INDIA HAD THE MORTGAGES THE UK HAD TO PAY THERE (PPP)GDP WOULD BE SMALLER,YOU ARE A JOKE!!

THE WORLD USES NOMINAL GDP,YOU MAY NOT HAVE NOTICED,JAPAN IS SECOND GDP,AND UK IS FOURTH,UK JAAPN GERMANY ARE ALL DISPLACED USING (PPP).GROW UP!

46

Edward,

15/10/2008 02:02:54
I couldnt believe what I was seeing, shown on Reporting Scotland at Lunchtime, then in the evening and then on Newsnight Scotland, with a apparent gleeful Gordon Brewer!
Gordon Brown attacking the idea of an Independent Scotland, stating that an Independent Scotland could not of afforded to put in the £ 37 billion that the UK government had (Actually they havent done so , so far)
He was arrogant about it.

This was a strange 'exclusive' interview with what appeared to be loaded questions, which were prepared in order to set of a course of anti Independence statements by Brown.
The timing is also curious, and would back up what Ive been advocating since the Scottish bank share crash of last week, that this has been wholly orchestrated by Labour, that is using the financial crisis in world markets as a vehicle to manipulate the markets in such a way as to cause shares specifically in the Scottish banks to fall. Then ride to the rescue, then come out and state that Scotland would be worse off if Independent.
The theme is carried accross, when Yvette Cooper, wife of Ed Balls (the person who breifed Robert Peston). Was being interviewed earlier on the Network version of Newsnight, when commenting on the Banking crisis in general, would ONLY refer to RBS and HBOS as being the banks responsible for issuing mortgages recklessly at stupid percentages of salary etc. Why did she not mention other banks or building societies, why name RBS and HBOS specifically?
47

You can stick your independence up your a***!!,

15/10/2008 02:03:37
I have to say that it is just wonderful seeing the Nats squirm right now.

Oil heading to $50 a barrel.

Their Arc of Prosperity now an Arc of Bankruptcy.

Could Fat Al have found the billions to rescue Scottish banks?

In his dreams perhaps?
48

Richard1,

England 15/10/2008 02:04:53
47,JUST FOR YOU!!!!!!!

WWW.USTREAS.GOV/tic/mfh.txt

Lists UK as owning $290bn in july since wHen it has increased to $316bn.

THATS ONE NIL TO ME EH!!!!!

YOU CAN STUDY THAT UNTIL YOUR LITTLE HEARTS CONTENT,IT LISTS ALL COUNTRIES HOLDING OF USA T-BILLS AND UK IS 3RD!
49

You can stick your independence up your a***!!,

15/10/2008 02:06:33
What Alex has stuck up his erchie because he is 5 h i t t i n g himself?

——————/´ ¯/
—————--/—-/
—————-/—-/
———--/´¯/'--'/´¯`•_
———-/'/--/—-/—--/¨¯\
——--('(———- ¯~/'--')
———\————-'—--/
———-'\'————_-•´
————\———--(

Squeaky bum time for the Natz!!
50

somerferg,

perth 15/10/2008 02:09:48

#50 - Oh another intelligent, well thought out comment I see from a pro-onionist. Look the day when I see all the other colonies begging to come back to mother engerland to save them from the global financial crisis I might agree with you. As that seems as likely as hell freezing over I will continue to support the only party that looks after Scotland's interests not the lickspittles you support.
51

Nevsky,

Moscow 15/10/2008 02:10:28
50 You#

$50 a barrel better than £0 a barrel. You will notice that Norway has cut it's output to iincrease revenue no doubt?

Arc of Insolvenvy? Ireland secured by Europe, Iceland with less debt than the UK per head and Norway doing just great.

Billions to save banks..sure Ireland, Norway and Denmark did it without spendin one penny while monkeys like you will pay for it for 10 years..

Complete dim-witted and ill-informed laughing stock!
52

Incandescent,

15/10/2008 02:12:54
#51 That link clearly shows the United Kingdom's exposure to US bonds, as opposed to Google UK. The Google guys are renowned for their genius and financial acumen, whereas Gordon Brown has proven himself to be inept. This irelevance merely enhances your reputation as an utter, utter tool.
53

Edward,

15/10/2008 02:13:08
The Brown big con!
Labour party machine in full swing, with its usual suspects
I hope there is an investigation a some point, which will result in the arrest of Gordon Brown, Ed Balls and Alistair Darling as well as suspected others in the Labour party in London, for the market manipulation of HBOS and RBS shares in order for political gain.
Im never usually wrong about these things
54

You can stick your independence up your a***!!,

15/10/2008 02:14:08
#55 Love that last line - a description of the Dear Leader and the Natz?
55

Incandescent,

15/10/2008 02:16:24
#58 not going to defend your fellow troll who's lost his way?
56

Nevsky,

Moscow 15/10/2008 02:16:35
53 Bring them on#

'the crowds are cheering Brown again'

You mean those faced with:

highest inflation in 15 years
recession
crash in housing market
scotland losing two institutions (lots in Fife)
highest national debt ever
highest ration of national debt to GDP ever
unemployment rising the highest levels in 15 years
slashed public spending
7 pence tax increase next year
foreign borrowing at an all-time high
Brown the 10 year chancellor fat cat
all his friends in the city millionaires

Cheering in the streets alright..what a bone-head you are!

57

Richard1,

15/10/2008 02:16:45
56,HAHHAH ,first i am not telling you the truth,now the UK is exposed to USA bonds,haahha

1 LITTLE FLAW!YOUR MUCH VAUNTED NORWAY FUND IS ALSO IN ???????????YOU GUESSED IT DOLLARS.

WHAT NO APOLOGY FOR CALLING ME OUT,I PROVIDED THE PROOF!WOUNDED,
58

You can stick your independence up your a***!!,

15/10/2008 02:17:36
#55

Ireland - giving a guarantee that's completely worthless and leaves them a hostage to fortune.

Iceland - two thirds of its stock exchange wiped out in a day.

Norway - running to the IMF and Moscow seeking funds because theirs are tied up.

That's some Arc of Prosperity!!
59

Edward,

15/10/2008 02:20:04
#53
Your deluding yourself big time
I wouldnt cheer so soon
No ones cheering except for Labour hacks
it was no overnight solution
Brown is no leader
as was pointed out in last nights Newsnight bothBrown and Darling are not capable of dreaming up the resolution on their own, they just dont have the brains
But I tell you what, they will be caught out on their deceipt of the Scottish nation.
60

Incandescent,

15/10/2008 02:21:13
#56 First, "Exposed" is standard investment terminology and stands in this case - UK holds US bonds and is therefore "exposed" to any risk that entails.

Second, what? provide a link to any comment I have made on Norway...ever.

You continue to dig yourself deeper, tool, and the caps just make you seem desparate and manic.

Tool.

61

Incandescent,

15/10/2008 02:24:10
WTF - I meant #61 - yes, you Richard1
62

Edward,

15/10/2008 02:25:30
There was also something telling dring Browns stag managed 'exclusive' interview.
When asked if the take over by Lloyds TSB of HBOS would go through, he stated that the government were the majority shareholder in HBOS and that he would ensure that it did go through!
Whats disturbing is that he is determined thatHBOS be taken over and not rescued. He also seems determined that the control of the Bank be switched to London, with the potential of 40,000 job losses in Sctland!
He has not once (as a majority shareholder remember) stated that he would prefer having the combined group headquartered in Edinburgh
63

Richard1,

15/10/2008 02:26:23
65,no still no apology in your bile,were you wrong YES OR NO!!

EVEN WITH YOUR LIMITED INTELLIGENCE YOU CAN ANSWER THAT,AS FOR THE 'GOOGLE GUYS'THE WEB SITE IS USGOV TREAS,this stands for USA governemnt treasuries,clues in the name it is a governemnt website,again DUMMY!

shouldn't you be in bed school tomorrow?
64

Nevsky,

Moscow 15/10/2008 02:26:43
62 a**e

Ireland have not spen one penny and their entire banking systen has been secured by Europe including a guarantee that not one bank will be lost!

Iceland..have a loan an backing now so back on track and will outstrip the Uk soon..AGAIN! Also having listened to the average Icelanders they are feeling quite chirpy and will get on with it!

Norway is a fully capitatalised society and has no need to seek funds from anyone and it's banking sector it totally secure and sound.

Denmark: guarantee without the taxpayer spending one penny is eough!

Scotland: haha under clowns like you willing to accept anything has losy it's entire banking sector and is the only country in Europe without a bank and is also part of the worst perfornming economy apart from Iceland and the USA and all becuase of Scottish 'bend over' imbeciles like you' hahahahahahah..enjoy!
65

Incandescent,

15/10/2008 02:28:20
possibly because he stood by and allowed unchecked panic and short-selling to make it inevitable in the first place. Let's face it, he has no career on the speech circuit so directorship of a bank is his best best once we turf him out.
66

Incandescent,

15/10/2008 02:29:44
#68 Can't you read? I mean... WHAT?!

Tool.
67

Richard1,

15/10/2008 02:33:04
70,GOTTA GO NIGHT-NIGHT,ANYTIME YOU WANT ANOTHER KICKING JUST CALL!!

EDUCATION IS A WONDERFUL THING,YOU SHOULD THINK ABOUT GETTING ONE.
68

Incandescent,

15/10/2008 02:33:09
Nevsky - are you Russian?
69

Incandescent,

15/10/2008 02:35:02
You should think about taking your cap-lock off...and reality.

Tool.
70

Incandescent,

15/10/2008 02:37:05
#72 I could only appropriately get "one" if you'd stated "an eduction is..." As you stated it as a concept rather than a noun, "one" is incorrect.

Tool.
71

Incandescent,

15/10/2008 02:38:00
education, of course. D'OH!
72

An Beal Bacht,

15/10/2008 02:38:05
I think Scots are not so myopic that they can't see that Broon is rejuvenated by this crisis. Indeed, Labour posters are positively exuberant. It demonstrates convincingly that Labour are a party that enjoys seeing Scotland in trouble. Trouble that this party created (by adopting and endorsing Thatcherite policies) and then denying Scotland the power to intervene in its own defense through limiting the powers and resources available to our parliament.

We'll see how this plays in Glenrothes.
73

Incandescent,

15/10/2008 02:39:15
Anyone else notice his delusional avoidance of the subject of our discussion?
74

Incandescent,

15/10/2008 02:40:42
They're out - that's exactly how it'll play.
75

An Beal Bacht,

15/10/2008 02:42:37
79 - Aye.
76

Nevsky,

Moscow 15/10/2008 02:45:58
73 Incan#

Nyet, a Scot in Russia!
77

Robbie 2,

NZ 15/10/2008 02:49:26
16 gothenburg glory,
“You nats really take the biscuit.
Face facts. Irish, Icelandic banks and Norwegian banks have all suffered in the last few weeks.”
Hello Gothenburg! What about banks in Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Switzerland, Denmark, Austria, Belgium, Sweden and Finland, New Zealand all considered small nations - how are their banks fairing? Are they borrowing like Gordon Brown - I really don’t know (as I’m so far away and isolated in a small independent, nuclear-free, nation, engaged in no wars).

Big is not always good: Of the ten countries with populations over 100 million, only the United
States and Japan can be considered prosperous; compare that with the far greater number of small prosperous nations.
At present the two small NZ banks appear to be doing OK
‘New Zealand-owned banks shrug off global credit crunch’
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10499515

I suppose Unionists will be wishing them well.
78

Forward not Back,

15/10/2008 02:50:23
Re debt as % of GDP figures - wait till the UK has to count PFI figures into things, as it will do next year.
79

Forward not Back,

15/10/2008 02:51:42
I find it sad, as a Unionist, that the best argument put forward for the Union is an economic collapse. Extending that argument would mean that we need a one world government.
80

Incandescent,

15/10/2008 02:56:12
We should really all sit tight and wait to see what Gorgie_Tony/Jenny MacArthur has to say on the matter. One wild outburst today just didn't really cut it for me.
81

Incandescent,

15/10/2008 02:58:42
A policewoman giving Gordon Brown "a taste of the back of her hand" sounds appealing...
82

An Beal Bacht,

15/10/2008 02:58:47
84 - Yes indeed.
83

Incandescent,

15/10/2008 03:00:07
#87 "yes indeed" - coincidence? Or David Coverdale?
84

An Beal Bacht,

15/10/2008 03:00:41
86 - Gie him a face like a skelpit urse.
85

An Beal Bacht,

15/10/2008 03:01:47
89 - It is a sad argument.
86

Incandescent,

15/10/2008 03:01:56
#89 If G-Tone had his way it'd be a baseball bat and mustard gas, which sounds about right.
87

An Beal Bacht,

15/10/2008 03:06:09
91 - I like your commitment to doing the job properly. A true journeyman.
88

jimbob82,

Calgary 15/10/2008 03:09:00
Gordon Brown has unfortunately shown his warts. The saviour of the economy, I think not. Britain is in for a deep recession, Brown's issuing of billions to support banks will and is devaluing the pound. Of course Britains economy is larger than Scotland, but the extremes of inflated housing and wastefulness is all in the South of England, and that is who Brown is the lapdog for. He should feel absolute shame for his comments and the reality is that he is again preaching the politics of fear and control. He is not fit.
89

An Beal Bacht,

15/10/2008 03:10:33
93 - It will end in tears.
90

Bring it Off,

UK 15/10/2008 03:19:04
THIS FROM DR MARC FABER WHO I CAN TELL YOU IS NEVER WRONG ABOUT THE MARKETS HE HAS PREDICTED EVERYTHING SO FAR CORRECTLY HE SPEAKS CLEARY AND WITHOUT INFLUENCE FROM OUTSIDE INTERESTS AS HE IS VERY WEALTHY.

Personally I think that Mr Gordon Brown is totally unacceptable as a politician and also as a business leader and as essentially a Treasury Secretary," Faber said. "And he contributed meaningfully to the current crisis, as did Mr Bernanke and as did Mr Greenspan by turning their eyes away from the development of the CDS market from the CDO market and not supervising financial institutions sufficiently and printing money and leading to this huge debt growth, in particular in Britain in the household sector. So that these clowns are now supposed to bail us out is a total joke.

"I think what they should have done is having a conference already ten years ago and discuss why is it that credit growth is so strong and that we have these asset bubbles that develop in various markets at different times? And at that time, they should have tightened monetary policies and not only targeted core inflation, but also targeted debt growth and money supply growth."

SO YOU CAN FOOL SOME OF THE PEOPLE BUT IT WILL UNRAVEL VERY SHORTLY AND THEN OH OH THE WHOLE COUNTRY WILL COME DOWN - TODAYS UNEMPLOYMENT FIGURES ARE JUST THE TIP OF A HUGE ICEBERG ABOUT TO CRASH INTO UK PLC
91

Bring it Off,

UK 15/10/2008 03:25:08
HE ALSO SAYS:

In the interview, Faber reminded us that when the market crashed in 1929 ahead of the Depression between November 1929 and the Summer of 1930 the market rallied 50% before collapsing again by 85% and before having the greatest depression ever.

"So we don't know for sure," he said, "but I would say I'm very sceptical that the governments, especially Gordon Brown who talks about stability and early warning systems, that he has the ability to actually bail out the system.

"Since he caused most of the problems to start with, and there was an early warning system always in place, namely the early warning system is that when you have bubbles in housing and in equities and in commodities, that something is very clearly wrong."

Some of those bubbles are collapsing, but the bailout packages that have been announced have given some security to markets. In Britain, the government is buying large holdings in some teetering banks, even a majority holding in the Bank of Scotland which is nationalisation, because it will have a controlling interest.

"Normally, governments are not very good at running banks or at running any businesses, especially not the British government, as we know," Faber said. "We just have to look at public transportation. So I'm very sceptical that it will work very well and we also have to analyse the terms at which these banks are being taken over. Basically, the proper way to go about bailing out the banks is to let the shareholders lose everything at the same time, let the bondholders take a very significant cut and then the government should come in, recapitalise the banks, nurture them to health and resell them. But to essentially bail out the banks and still let the shareholders get away with it is probably the wrong medicine."

"In a perfect market you have hundreds and hundreds of competitors and if one competitor fails or goes bankrupt it's not the end of the world, because it's just one of a few hundred. In bankin
92

Breezy,

Argyll 15/10/2008 03:33:49
This article from the Times today just about hits the nail on the head. In true NuLab style, can anybody believe anything Broon says ?


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/daniel_finkelstein/article4944288.ece
93

democracy,

Scottish Borders 15/10/2008 03:37:27
#18 Richard 1, I really do think YOU should be running the show, after all you appear to have all the