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Catholic bishop hits out at 'gay conspiracy' to destroy Christianity



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Published Date: 13 March 2008
ONE of Scotland's most senior Catholics has launched an attack on the "gay lobby" in Scotland, claiming there is a "huge and well-orchestrated conspiracy" against Christian values.
The Rt Rev Joseph Devine, Bishop of Motherwell and president of the Catholic Education Commission, said gay rights organisations aligned themselves with minority groups, such as Holocaust survivors, to project an "image of a group of people under persecution".

He warned that the gay lobby – which he labelled "the opposition" – had mounted "a giant conspiracy" to shape public policy.

He singled out the actor Sir Ian McKellen, who was given a New Year honour for services to gay rights, pointing out that Oscar Wilde was locked up only a century ago for homosexual acts. The bishop said he would "not tolerate" the "behaviour" of a child struggling to come to terms with his or her homosexuality. Last night his views were attacked by gay rights groups, which branded them "unChristian" and "deeply out of step" with the views of ordinary Scots.

In the fourth of the Gonzaga Lectures held at St Aloysius' College in Glasgow on Tuesday, Bishop Devine said: "The homosexual lobby has been extremely effective in aligning itself with minority groups.

"It is ever-present at the service each year for the Holocaust memorial, as if to create for themselves the image of a group of people under persecution. We neglect the gay movement at our peril.

"I want to ask you if you are able to see the giant conspiracy that's taking place before our eyes, even if we didn't see it at the time. I take it you're beginning to see that there is a huge and well-orchestrated conspiracy taking place, which the Catholic community missed."

He went on: "In this New Year's honours list, I saw actor Ian McKellen being honoured for his work on behalf of homosexuals, when a century ago Oscar Wilde was locked up and put in jail. "It's a very small group of people, but very active and organised – and extremely indulgent. The opposition know exactly what they're doing. We don't."

Calum Irving, the director of Stonewall Scotland, said the bishop was "deluded", pointing out that the Catholic Church had much greater wealth and political influence than the gay rights lobby. He said: "So Bishop Devine has decided it's time to have a go at lesbian and gay people again.

"I'm flattered that the bishop thinks we could mount a 'huge and well-orchestrated' conspiracy, but he is much deluded. After all, which 'lobby' really has the greater resources and political access?

"Such a continued attack on gay people is distinctly unChristian and deeply out of step with the views of most Scots today. There is no war on Christianity – just the bishop's own fevered paranoia.

"I would defend the bishop's right to practise his faith and yet he would deny me basic dignity and respect. Worse, he appears to hanker after an age when Oscar Wilde was put in jail for being gay. Worse still, he seems to infer that gay people have no right to be remembered as victims of the Holocaust."

After Bishop Devine's lecture, entitled Sectarianism and Secularism: Bugbears for the Catholic Church in Scotland, one audience member asked how Catholic parents should "come to terms with a child's mission to become homosexual".

The bishop replied: "This must be a nightmare moment for any parent. There are many days when I'm glad to not be a parent. I would try to handle it with a degree of compassion, but I would not tolerate (it]."

Bishop Devine also cited the battles over Clause 28, legalising civil partnerships and same-sex adoption.

He said prominence had been given to the "supreme moral values of liberty and equality" replacing "truth and goodness" as supreme moral values.

Bishop Devine continued: "It was bound to result in state-sponsored morality at war with Christian values. We must resist being corrupted by secularism."

Asked about how Christians could influence politics, he commented: "It was once thought that the Labour Party was a Christian democratic party. Sadly, it's not that anymore. Certainly in terms of leadership, the SNP are much more responsive to us."

He vowed to fight on against the "forces of secularism". He concluded his lecture stating: "Like Mel Gibson, who said, 'I'm going to pick a fight', so am I."

A Holocaust Memorial Day Trust spokeswoman said: "Holocaust Memorial Day is about remembering all victims: be they Jewish, gypsy, gay or lesbian.

"The day is also about learning the lessons from the past, encouraging society to tackle all forms of prejudice, such as antisemitism, racism and homophobia."

A spokeswoman for Sir Ian McKellen said the actor was out of the country and unavailable for comment.

OUTSPOKEN CHURCHMAN

THE Rt Rev Joseph Devine is no stranger to controversy.

Last year, he dealt a blow to Labour's hopes in the Holyrood elections by saying he would not be voting for the party on religious grounds, as it had a "morality devoid of any Christian principles".

He had previously branded the Labour administration as "moral vandals" and "politically correct zealots".

The year before, he became embroiled in a row with other senior figures in the Catholic Church after condemning the actions of a senior Church aide who, he claimed, had failed to express opposition to plans to let gay couples adopt.

In an unprecedented move, the Church's two most senior clerics, Cardinal Keith O'Brien and Archbishop Mario Conti, moved publicly to rebuff Bishop Devine by releasing a public statement backing the aide.

Previously, he became personally involved in a row with Jack McConnell, the former first minister, over plans for mixed-faith, joint-campus schools in Lanarkshire.

The full article contains 962 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
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1

Rubbersbutnotrulers,

13/03/2008 00:30:38
Religion has no place in politics.

I think the Arch B of C's comments last month proved that beyond all doubt.

Nor has Cherie Law.

Anyone seen Tony, vicar of Englanshire recently?
2

,

13/03/2008 00:50:09
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Fergus J,

Edinbugh 13/03/2008 00:50:22
If he is so concerned about this issue should he not be asking his fellow Bishops why the Catholic Church in Scotland is a Trustee of Scottish Churches House which advertises facilities, including use of the ecumenical chapel, for the celebration of Civil Partnerships.
4

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13/03/2008 01:17:09
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13/03/2008 01:23:30
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13/03/2008 01:27:02
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13/03/2008 01:42:56
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13/03/2008 01:51:27
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Jim A,

13/03/2008 01:57:30
#8 Jim Baxter RIP, you said "The Bishop has the right to reflect his views which many agree with".

I'll agree with that mate but at the same time this is the same church that has paid out hundreds of millions of pounds/dollars in child abuse cases. I'm thinking the church wants to put it's own house in order before airing their views both as individuals and as a collective.

10

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13/03/2008 01:58:18
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11

!Ya basta!,

13/03/2008 01:59:02
Devines comments are abhorrent.

The gay rights movement only campaigns for equality, the right to sexual expression and freedom from persecution, nothing more.

And in a modern society I have never seen a reason not to support such goals.

Anyhting less is a step backwards and shoudl not be tolerated.

Devine should step down. And the Church should start to address its own very un-religious attitudes.

I'm with you Gina.

12

monkey man,

13/03/2008 02:04:02
With this deluded madman Devine's so called " Church's " repulsive and gory record regarding paedophilia he has no moral platform whatsoever to criticise anyone of whichever creed or sexuality. In fact, if Devine or is that Divine ( lol ) had any self respect he'd quietly get on with practicing his so called " faith" and leave his bigotry to the past.

The overwhelming majority of Scots would rather have the gay community in charge of schools in Scotland than the RC Church.
13

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13/03/2008 02:08:59
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13/03/2008 02:27:03
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13/03/2008 02:29:15
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16

Furby,

Dundee 13/03/2008 02:35:01
How dare the bishop treat, not only consenting adults, but children who are coming to terms with the way the feel who they are as deviants. It is intolerably hard for some children to come to terms with their sexuality without comments like the bishop's making it even harder.
17

Rozz Fyffe,

Scotland 13/03/2008 02:55:53
it is time to either say that homosexuality is genetic or not, if genetic then lets screen for it so that homosexuals can be told earlier to prevent all this "worry" about sexuality.



18

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13/03/2008 03:19:28
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19

Dougie Douglas,

Douglas 13/03/2008 03:27:03
Ive heard it all now!

The church has little currency in a debate about sexual morality.

I honestly can't get my head around why so many people feel threatened by gays. Of course they will develop a lobby in an attempt to be afforded the same rights as the rest of us.

I would normally salute someone in public life who says 'don't vote labour' but not when they are a churchmen. Politics and religion do not mix - whenever they are mix it always ends up gettting ugly.

Get your own house in order Rev and leave the gays to do what they want with other consenting adults.

20

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13/03/2008 04:01:59
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21

Advance Alba,

edinburgh 13/03/2008 04:37:40
The dodgy bishop plays with fire. I am a homosexual man, and I am totally normal. I despise the views of Devine. And he plays a dangerous game. He is not the only one, or his odious Church, who can throw stones. The time is coming close when someone might start pointing out the truth about his corrupt and corrupting Church and reviving passions and actions we all thought thankfully long buried. How about that, Devine? Have a care.
22

Larry Hallatt,

Chesley Canada 13/03/2008 05:41:41
For a proper counter point to this bigoted fool Devine o

google Pat Condell web site on religion

This guy is great and says it all.
23

scotsdoc,

NANAIMO 13/03/2008 06:12:07

The Catholic church in North America is struggling against bankruptcy in many diocese due to legal settlements over homosexual abuse by certain priests, of young innocent alterboys, with the knowledge of the Vatican authorities!

I find it ludicrous that the Bishop should voice such opposition to GAY ACTIVITY when the Catholic church considers such homosexual liasons with alterboys to be minor indiscretions or pecadilloes and not mortal sin!
24

S'me,

Edinburgh 13/03/2008 06:12:50
Poor Joseph, I think he needs a holiday and get a reality check, methinks just a wee bit paranoid and obsessed, signs of stress. Maybe the job is too much for him.
25

!Ya basta!,

13/03/2008 06:13:41
Homosexuality is normal, which is different from the "norm", but it is normal. It is also natural.

So Encephalon, Canada, Navvy, Daleks, Rozz, Dragonhead etc - please go, with the Raving Wrong Divine, and take your vile eugenics to hell.
26

happyhibbie,

The Inch, Edinburgh 13/03/2008 06:25:56
I hope someone asks this bammy bishop if he considers that the extermination of gays was an acceptable part of the holocaust.

This poor man needs urgent treatment for his advanced state of paranoia.
27

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 13/03/2008 06:43:18
Presumably God created/allowed the creation of homosexuals, so aren't Christians who condemn homosexuals thereby condemning God?
28

Saoghal Beag,

13/03/2008 07:22:35
Homosexualaity and paedophilia are not the same nor related. Commonly paedophiles are near relatives and proportionally more likely to be straight. It is only in the twisted minds of some of the above that they assume that all gays want are small boys, i can only assume that they themselves have heads full of thoughts about small girls and really deserve sympathy and treatment however abhorent they are.

Does the new sin of excess wealth extend to the church? Can we expect the vatican to off load the riches it holds in the vatican, for a start, to provide assistance to the poor and starving of the world.
29

iain adamson,

amsterdam 13/03/2008 07:22:42
as a homosexual living in a loving relationship for 35 years i take exception to so called Christians who still dont understand the first and main commandment of Christ.. love your neighbour as yourself... a little more love and understanding for their fellow human beings as shown by Christ wouldnt come amiss.
30

dave from invercargill,

Queenstown 13/03/2008 07:31:35
It strikes me that the rc church is dealing with the issue of homosexuality on two distinctly different levels.
The first being that if one of the priests gets caught mollesting wee boys its okay because the kid was with out a doubt begging to be abused, as long as the law doesnt get involved said priest can be shipped off to run a hostel for street kids in Rio...lucky street kids. The whole episode can be swept under the cavilier bremworth no harm done.
However when two consenting adults of the same sex decide on having an physical relationship and the objective being adult and consenting there is almighty furore.
Strikes me of blazing double standards intended to divert attention away from the real problem, which I'm sure the street kids of Rio would be happy to tell you about if they had any sort of forum.
31

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13/03/2008 07:34:07
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eric,

Lothian 13/03/2008 07:34:52
I think the Church itself has done a good jobof destroying Christian morals itself.I changed my whole way of thinking about the church when they were being treated with mitts for child abuse,My own mother stopped going in early 80s because it disgusted her that much.I think they have to look in the way Paedophilia walks hand in hand with the Catholic churchNo offence meant.
33

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13/03/2008 07:43:33
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34

glassbenmhor,

13/03/2008 07:44:04
I reckon he can take the gay conspiracy and his God and stuff them up his cassock ,and b*gger off to Canada plenty of Frenchmen over there,but there is truly nothing more nauseous than a gay rights mafiosi moaning about the Church (any) not being inclusive .So we ask ourselves what do we need more,in yer face gay rights activism or public fountains of religious rhetoric ,the answer-
NEITHER
35

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 13/03/2008 07:44:45
Phil241106

Please be aware that internet messages in block capitals are the equivalent to snail mail letters written in green ink i.e. evidence of an unsound personal equilibrium.

(I just thought you ought to know as you have spoilt the effect of your own message above).
36

Saoghal Beag,

13/03/2008 07:45:56
24# Phil, your heaven is my hell, the thought of spending eternity with self-rightious catholics is just too much to bare. Then again isn't judging others a bit of a no no as well?

You have a twisted view of life. You complain about the homosexuals who show the THE 'IN YOUR FACE' ATTITUDE. how many more gays surround you that you know nothing of their sex lives, who don't meet your view of how a gay man behaves or looks like. Do you ask everyone you meet about their sex life?

oh and your caps lock is on love.
37

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13/03/2008 07:47:10
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13/03/2008 07:48:44
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Reckless,

Lev 18:22 13/03/2008 07:51:27
Love the sinner, hate the sin.

Homosexuals need treatment. It reminds me of the RAF pilot who had his genitals mutilated for some perverted reason. The papers claim that he is now a she. One question: how many Y chromosomes does he have?
Can women have a Y chromosome? Didn't think so. He's still a man, minus a few essential parts.
40

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13/03/2008 07:52:01
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41

Boswall,

13/03/2008 07:53:20
The Catholic Church preaching morals.

That's quite one of the most hilarious contradictions I've read in a long time. From the organisation that brought us the dark ages, indulged in 'witch' burning, encourages unprotected sex in AIDS riven Africa, condemns extreme wealth at the same time as being one of the planets largest land owners.....Oh and is also infested with paedophiles and has been exposed at actively covering up some of the worst child abuses.

42

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13/03/2008 07:55:58
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43

It's me!,

13/03/2008 07:57:28
To those who try to defend homosexuality by critising the Roman Catholic church for its shocking record in child abuse I have to say that two wrongs do not make a right! We have not all been brainwashed by the politically correct brigade and some worthwhile standards of decency remain. It's a pity our politicians do not have the same standards.
44

Boswall,

13/03/2008 07:57:29
#43

How would you know???

Homosexuality has been seen to exist in loads of different mammals - is the animal kingdom 'in on it' too?

It's as natural a variant as your hair colour or height and will remain so regardless of the views of bigots such as yourself.
45

oddoneout,

13/03/2008 07:59:29
Is this also the same church that is trying to "stamp out" bigotry, with a chip on the shoulder so large that it encompasses everything that isn't condoned by their own master race.........we all know that the RCC has never done anything wrong in it's entire history and the only reason that they fell out with Labour was that Labour were better at brainwashing people into thinking that crap ideas were good ones
46

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 13/03/2008 07:59:52
#3 Fergus

You seem to be implying that Civil Partnerships are exclusively gay ceremonies. That is not correct.
47

Boswall,

13/03/2008 08:00:21
#46

"I have to say that two wrongs do not make a right!"

Only 1 'wrong' has been listed - the institutional child abuse in the CC. Unless you were also referring to the 'wrong' of your own hypocracy?
48

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 13/03/2008 08:03:08
I look forward to Father David Cairns MP perspective on the Bishop of Motherwell's highly contentious view.
49

Pontificatus Maximus of Avignon,

13/03/2008 08:03:59
We ALL know that those who condemn gays the most are concealing their own sexuality.
50

It's me!,

13/03/2008 08:09:38
#50. Read it again. The second wrong is Homosexuality. Homosexuality is not the norm. It is conducted by a minority. I don't agree with 'querr bashing' or such but if you must play with another man's penis or anus please do it behind closed doors. It was carried on this way for decades without flaunting in front of others with the intention of shocking those not of that persuasion.

51

Saoghal Beag,

13/03/2008 08:09:40
To those who try to defend the Roman Catholic Church by critising homosexuals I have to say that two wrongs do not make a right! We have not all been brainwashed by the catholic churches view of the world and would rather maintain our own personal worthwhile standards of decency. It's a pity the priests do not have the same standards.
52

Nell,

The Preservation Hall 13/03/2008 08:11:24
I dont believe anyone should be persecuted for their beliefs. But I also dont want to have their beliefs openly promoted. As No 43 says, do we need four poofs and a piano type entertainers on the tv etc. In the same manner I'm quite happy for people to be Catholics, Jews, Protestant etc. But please just get on with your religions and dont try enforcing them on others.
53

Saoghal Beag,

13/03/2008 08:12:16
Roman Catholiscism is not the norm. It is conducted by a minority. I don't agree with 'tim bashing' or such but if you must undertake their own little cermonies, please do it behind closed doors. It was carried on this way for decades without flaunting in front of others with the intention of shocking those not of that persuasion.

54

paulr,

edinburgh 13/03/2008 08:14:25
Bigotry, antisemitism, racism and homophobia 4 of the foundations of the catholic church.
55

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13/03/2008 08:16:09
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56

paulr,

edinburgh 13/03/2008 08:17:04
There is not one of these so called religions which is any better than the rest, keep religion well and truly out of politics, let them worship there imaginary gods and leave the rest of us in peace..
57

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 13/03/2008 08:17:24
#55 > I dont believe anyone should be persecuted for their beliefs. But I also dont want to have their beliefs openly promoted. <

Why not? It's a free country (or it should be). I'm more than happy for Bishop Devine and Stonewall Scotland to express their views openly. Then I can listen to what they say, consider it and come to my own conclusions.
58

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 13/03/2008 08:18:50
#58 > And just for the record I cannot stand gays. <

Rather a sweeping statement, surely?
59

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13/03/2008 08:19:56
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60

wayne bijlyeerheid,

13/03/2008 08:22:20
quote>The Rt Rev Joseph Devine, Bishop .......Catholic Education Commission, said gay rights organisations aligned themselves with minority groups, such as Holocaust survivors, to project an "image of a group of people under persecution< end quote

A very good description, if applied to the catholic church, in Scotland in particular.
61

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 13/03/2008 08:22:34
#62 > To me a practicing homosexual is to be pitied as having given in to his baser instincts which he knows is wrong. No different to a thief giving in to his temptation to steal or a murderer giving in to his desire to murder. <

Silly. Thieves and murderers harm people.
62

The Daleks,

Longmen 13/03/2008 08:23:44
#28 Ya basta.

look up the meaning of the word "normal" in the dictionary, halfwit.

Homosexuality is NOT the norm.
63

voltaire's janny,

13/03/2008 08:24:02
It would appear from thousands of examples that institutionalised abuse of minor paritioners is a "Christian value".

The Catholic Church in the US has produced (from where you wonder) a billion dollars to pay off its victims.

Where's the conspiracy to get rid of religion? I want to sign up right away.



64

Astarte,

Giffnock 13/03/2008 08:24:29
The Scotsman..by refusing to print my previous comment referring to the priests who carried out sexual violations which destryed the lives of thousands of young men and destroyed their lives are you still protecting the Catholic Church and denying truth.
65

Saoghal Beag,

13/03/2008 08:25:38
#60 urban, so it's ok to adopt aspects of sharia law in the uk by elements of our community, enforce marriages?
66

Douglas,

Bathgate 13/03/2008 08:25:53
Sam the God #58: You will find it easier to stand gays if you lean them against a wall or similar. Alternatively you can contact Stonewall. I heard they were planning to make a stand.
67

Encephalon,

13/03/2008 08:27:22
#47 "Homosexuality has been seen to exist in loads of different mammals - is the animal kingdom 'in on it' too?

It's as natural a variant as your hair colour or height "


Murder, rape and incest can also be observed in nature-still doesnt mean that they are "right" or natural.
If the human race was all homosexual-it would become extinct-therefore homosexuality is in essence unnatural.

God created Adam and Eve NOT Adam and Steve!
68

It's me!,

13/03/2008 08:28:16
#56. Agreed. I am not a Roman Catholic but am quite happy for them to gather behind the closed doors of the chapel. I do, however, object when they impose two minutes silence on me at a football match because who they regard as God's agent on earth (also known as superstition) has died.
69

Maximus,

Roberton 13/03/2008 08:30:29
The Church's stance on homosexuality is clear. What is often confused by those who hear it, or indeed read it, is that they consider it an attack on homosexuals.

The church should support and celebrate the common denominator amongst everyone - that we are human. The church would go further by saying that we have a God given purpose. If some choose to ignore this or deny it then fine, but the church should still be there for them .. after all who would refuse a helping hand?

I would urge the church to set the example, uphold what you believe to be true by your actions.

By the way, those who are interested in knowing the church teaches on this matter, and not just what they "think" the church teaches should the Catechism of the Catholic Church. More information can be found on www.catholic.com
70

J.B.Oliver,

Glensarria 13/03/2008 08:31:07
Ths bishop is blind! There are a lot of gays in the Church!!!
71

sharon g,

wishaw 13/03/2008 08:32:53
What expose of the church is he trying to deflect now?I remember saying hello to him once in Motherwell and again in Bonkle.Both times he ignored me.Such a christian man can't pass the time of day with one of his 'flock'.His views are vindictive.He does not speak in my name.I would rather sit in a church with my family and the gay 'conspirators' anyday than nasty narrowminded bigots who have the cheek to call themselves devout.I feel my children would be safer too.
72

Ally,

London 13/03/2008 08:32:55
So, let's see. We're funding state schools to spread this nonsense....why, exactly?

I hope he keeps this up. The more intolerance we get from lunatics like this, the sooner we'll get rid of sectarian schooling.
73

Saoghal Beag,

13/03/2008 08:34:09
#62 encephalon, unlike the straights who steroetype gays it is actually far from the truth that gays consider all breeders as homophobes. it is only those that deomonstrate prejudices based on thier personal concepts of other's sex lives and use that as a basis for discrimination and harrasement that would be consider homophobic.

You may well spend your saturday evenings getting your kicks in a rubber french maid's outfit, but hey that's your business however far from the norm it might be and not something i would judge you by.
74

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 13/03/2008 08:34:50
#68 > #60 urban, so it's ok to adopt aspects of sharia law in the uk by elements of our community, enforce marriages? <

Over my dead body. But I'd also fight to the death for someone's right to promote openly the belief that sharia law should be adopted here.
75

dave from invercargill,

Queenstown 13/03/2008 08:36:50
It seems to me regardless of what the bish. has decreed. The true and real issue is whether or not what he has said incites hatred of a minority group.
76

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 13/03/2008 08:38:19
#52 PM of A

That seems a little bit far-fetched.
77

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/03/2008 08:39:01
Goodness me - there certainly are lots of people on the nightshift who do not like the idea of gentleman to gentleman lovin'. It's not normal, it's a minority, Hughie Green wouldn't do it, etc. OK then, You don't like to think about it. They're flaunting themselves in your faces and it's giving you unwanted thoughts, and perhaps even some unwelcome stirrings "down there."

The bishop certainly seems to find himself experiencing some odd thoughts and seems to think that gentlemen who appear to be gay should be locked up like Oscar was. For the crime of flaunting. My question is whether all you upstanding people agree. If so, for how long should the term of imprisonment take place?

Or is that too liberal a view? What about death? The Iranian government uses cranes to hang gay men. Would that do? The Nazis used death camps. Perhaps that's too much, though.

My question is whether your revulsion leads you to agree with Mr Devine that flaunting and flamboyantness should be accompanied by punishment. And if it should, what that punishment ought to be.

Or are you all just mouth and trousers?
78

hertscot,

13/03/2008 08:39:06
Some people are gay, they have opinions, they don't fit with 2000 year old religious dogma.

Bish. Devine - GET OVER IT!
79

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 13/03/2008 08:39:15
#70 > Murder, rape and incest can also be observed in nature-still doesnt mean that they are "right" or natural. <

Murderers, rapists and (in many cases) those who commit incest harm other people.

I don't see what point you're making here.

80

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/03/2008 08:41:18
And why have the cyber nats - the SNP massive that patrols this website at the dead of night - not seen fit to comment on the bihop claiming the SNP as an ally in the fight against the forces of cock fun?
81

hertscot,

13/03/2008 08:41:42
# 70 There is no god therefore it couldn't create anything.
82

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 13/03/2008 08:43:54
#70 > God created Adam and Eve <

No, He didn't. People - including Christians - stopped believing this literally about a century and a half ago.
83

Michael,

west lothian 13/03/2008 08:43:55
#74

Sharon

You've summed it up perfectly.
84

glassbenmhor,

13/03/2008 08:45:38
The old fart in the 'White gear',you know,Ratburger was he not in the Germanic Hitler Youth???????
85

eric,

Lothian 13/03/2008 08:46:41
If there was a jesus he died for his own sins NOT mine.
86

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 13/03/2008 08:46:43
Nobody and nothing has done more to distort and discredit the teachings of Christ than the Catholic church by a mile I dont even know how this business conglomorate has the gall to refer to itself as Christian.
87

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13/03/2008 08:47:05
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88

Boy Wonder,

13/03/2008 08:47:53
Two of the worst possible subjects for rabid posters combined in one article ... homosexuality and religion.

It's like a field-day has been declared for all the anti-gay and the religious nutters.

Devine is a clown. Worse, he's a damn dangerous clown because he has a pulpit. This is the kind of idiot religion attracts. Wonder what his position is on predatory paedophile priests?

Whatever ... his words about children are not what his church is supposed to teach. Jesus never said "Suffer the little children to come unto me ... except the deviant ones!"

This Bishop is an AR*E and should be booted back to the seminary and kept under lock and key.

Gay people are nature's way of trying to stem over-population. This is one reason why they should not adopt children. They were never meant to have any. Otherwise, they're as normal as anybody ... and in this world ... there's no-one "normal", whatever that is!
89

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 13/03/2008 08:48:38
#90 > I have nothing against them but I do not want them to think they are equeal with normal people <

Now, where have I read that sort of thing before? Was it about Germany in the 1930s, maybe?
90

Michael,

west lothian 13/03/2008 08:49:53
#83

In view of the bishop's evidently rather disturbed and delusional personality, it's possible that he could claim anything without there being the slightest bit of evidence to back it up. I suspected that his assertion about the SNP was just another example of evidence of his mental health problem.
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scottishcoffindodgerno1,

Edinburgh 13/03/2008 08:51:18
You cannot be gay and a Christian,it flies in the face of bible teachings.God says that homosexuality is an abomination's to be a christian is to believe in Jesus Christ who is the son of God gays may christian things ,but it does not make them christians.
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Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 13/03/2008 08:53:28
#94, eating prawns or bacon rolls also flies in the face of Bible teachings!
93

scottishcoffindodgerno1,

Edinburgh 13/03/2008 08:54:06
gays may practice christian things,but it does not make them chistians
94

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 13/03/2008 08:54:38
#94, to say nothing of lending money at interest. I'm afraid that if you have a building society account, you've had it and will end up in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone . . .
95

Duncan in Edinburgh,

13/03/2008 08:55:07
I'm disgusted at some of the comments here. Homophobia stems from ignorance, nothing more, nothing less. But the cure for ignorance requires an open mind, and there are many closed minds on display here.

Bishop Devine should resign. He is expressing an entirely un-Christian view, and he is doing so for entirely un-Christian purposes. He brings shame on the Catholic Church.

How dare anyone suggest that LGBT people have no right to sit next to Jews at the Holocaust memorial events? LGBT people were killed in their hundreds of thousands as part of the Holocaust. The Catholic Church offered the Nazis their tacit support then, and it seems even 60 years on they still prefer Hitler to Niemoller.

Oh, and for those bandying around the word "normal", educate yourselves please. Normal is a subjective notion. My normality is different from yours, neither is better than the other. From my point of view sexual attraction to someone of the opposite sex is not normal; it is something of which I have no understanding. But I would never presume to tell a heterosexual person that they are not normal.

Honestly, threads like this make me ashamed to be Scottish.
96

Johnny G,

Hamilton 13/03/2008 08:55:13
One wonders if Fr Devine has ever heard of the word irony?

"He warned that the gay lobby – which he labelled "the opposition" – had mounted "a giant conspiracy" to shape public policy."

And what are the church doing by criticising policy of government, and aligning themselves to the SNP? Surely not trying to shape public policy?

"The homosexual lobby has been extremely effective in aligning itself with minority groups...It is ever-present at the service each year for the Holocaust memorial, as if to create for themselves the image of a group of people under persecution."

And the church has not been effective in aligning itself with minority groups, and with the forces of power? Think of this. Across the globe, the RC church is closely intertwined with governments in countries with a strong RC presence, and party politics has little to do with it. Why else would they align themselves with right wing governments in some countries, and left wing in others?. To talk about creating the image of a group or people under persecution, when his very own church in Scotland have been doing the very same thing for over 100 years is teh classic case of the pot calling the kettle black. To use the example of the Holocaust memorial is also rather tactless, given the RC church support for Hitler during WWII, and the lack of condemnation of the holocaust at the time.

"I want to ask you if you are able to see the giant conspiracy that's taking place before our eyes, even if we didn't see it at the time. I take it you're beginning to see that there is a huge and well-orchestrated conspiracy taking place, which the Catholic community missed."

Huge and well orchestrated conspiracy? Who's claiming persecution now? Isn't a large religion telling it's flock who to vote for a conspiracy against anyone not sharing Roman Catholic beliefs?

"Asked about how Christians could influence politics, he commented: "It was once thought that the Labour Party was a Christian democrati
97

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 13/03/2008 08:55:48
#90 says:

"if you are not gay you are not on tv"

This statement is clearly and overwhelmingly untrue. I just wonder what kind of thinking produces this rubbish.
98

eric,

13/03/2008 08:55:56
Catholic Church Incorp,
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wayne bijlyeerheid,

13/03/2008 08:58:13
It's just as well the catholic church doesn't have the military resources of its founder Constantine or we'd be having their fascistic doctrines imposed on us at the point of a gun.
Like what happened in Spain, Portugal, Italy and every S. American country where the priests have ruled.
100

glassbenmhor,

13/03/2008 08:58:43
I always forget the old story(yawn),but did Jesus screw his sister ,which produced a mutant that lived for 2000 years in a hidden casket or something ,no its completely bizarre ,never mind adhering your life to it!
101

Alec A,

Manchester 13/03/2008 09:00:51
I am disgusted that the Scotsman is happy to use itself as a platform to spread hatred, as displayed in the vile remarks on this blog.
102

Iain's,

13/03/2008 09:03:15
Nice to hear that there are still some Catholics left.

Point of information. Things have got to such a state that the word "q*u*e*e*r" is banned on this website.
This is scandalous as it is a Scots dialect word as in 'A ***** lot of people went up town yesterday'.
Shame really.
103

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 13/03/2008 09:05:47
#105, in what context were you using this old Scots dialect word when your post was rejected?
104

Ally,

London 13/03/2008 09:05:48
#104 "I am disgusted that the Scotsman is happy to use itself as a platform to spread hatred, as displayed in the vile remarks on this blog."

You're so nearly correct. Unfortunately most of the vile remarks on this page are in the body of the main article, and coming out of the mouth of one of the worst bigots around. There's even a photograph of him.
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Leon MacRackpipe, catering and medical manager,

13/03/2008 09:06:42
The bible, especially the new testament, is not anti-gay, and Jesus stood up for the rights of marginalised people like Prostitues and tax collectors.

This is just people using a sacred text to justify their own prejudices.
106

eric,

13/03/2008 09:06:42
Catholics have always felt a minority in Scotland and now with all the Different Multi cultures in Glasgow etc they are feeling even more a minority.I think its a good thing.It makes the bile and spoutings from folk like him even more irrelivent.
107

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 13/03/2008 09:08:35
I've just run a word scan on the New Testament: nowhere does Jesus condemn homosexuality, or even mention it. Now, if the founder didn't think it important enough to note, what right has the Bishop, or church?
108

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13/03/2008 09:10:19
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