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China Saltire ban is going to make Scots Olympic stars really cross

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Published Date: 05 August 2008
WHEN Scots Olympic hopefuls such as Chris Hoy and the Murray brothers step out in Beijing to represent Britain in the Olympic Games, they might have expected a sea of Saltires among the cheering crowds.
However, it emerged yesterday a code of conduct for spectators laid down by the organising committee outlaws flags other than those of Olympic members. And although the UK is a member country, Scotland is not one in its own right.

The ban, part of the IOC's own rulebook, is often overlooked, most famously when Cathy Freeman, the Australian 400m runner, celebrated gold in Sydney by running a lap of honour with an Aboriginal flag.

This year, however, China is concerned about protests from supporters of Tibet who want to see an end to Chinese oppression.

The Free Tibet movement has dogged the run-up to the Games, most notably with huge protests in London, Paris and North America during the world tour of the Olympic flame.

Now Nationalist MSP Jamie Hepburn is writing to the International Olympic Committee and the British Olympic Association, urging them to challenge the rule – which would also ban English, Welsh and Northern Irish fans from waving their countries' national flags.

"Athletes from across Scotland and the rest of the UK will be taking part in the Beijing Olympics, and fans should be allowed to show their support by waving the national flag of their choice," said Mr Hepburn.

"With participants like Andy Murray often wearing Saltires on their kit as a symbol of national pride, it will be a shame if fans are not able to echo that by waving Saltires from the stands.

"I will be writing to the British Olympic Association and the International Olympic Committee urging them to challenge this ruling."

He said implementation of the rule to help China's aims in stopping free speech in Tibet was also against the Olympic spirit.

"China's crackdown on any show of support for Tibet – including the flying of flags – is out of keeping with the Olympic spirit and will raise many concerns as to China's commitment to improve free speech and expression in the run-up to the Games," he said.

"That it will have this unfortunate side-effect for anyone wanting to fly a Saltire or the English, Welsh or Northern Irish flag may focus people's minds on the need for further dialogue between China and Tibet."

Despite the outcry, the British Olympic Association said there was nothing it could do to remove the ban.

A spokeswoman said: "It is rule 51 of the IOC and we have to abide by that. I can't comment on how well the rule has been policed in the past, but it has always existed."

The IOC was unavailable for comment last night.

The organising committee guidelines state that spectators should not bring the following to any events: "Flags of non-members of the Olympics or Paralympics; flags or banners larger than 2m x 1m; flagpoles; any banners, slogans, fliers, brochures or samples."

A spokeswoman for Tennis Scotland insisted the ban would have no effect on the Murray brothers' performance, because they are determined to win gold for Team GB.

She said: "Andy, Jamie and the other members of the Olympic squad will be playing for Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

"The fact Andy is playing for Great Britain in no way diminishes the pride fellow Scots will feel watching Andy play, and his fans all over the world will continue to support him all the way."

Despite the latest row and disputes over Tibet, a poll to mark the start of the Beijing Olympics has found more Britons see China as an ally than as a threat. Almost half (46 per cent) of those who took part in the survey said they believed China was an ally. Only a third (33 per cent) said it was a threat.

BACKGROUND

THE row over flags has been provoked by China's attempts to stop the Free Tibet campaign using the Olympic Games to further its cause.

The world tour of the Olympic torch descended into farce as protesters used it to get their message over, particularly in London, North America and Paris where the event was stopped. The Tibet leg of the torch was cancelled and even at the start in Greece a protester managed to disrupt the official lighting ceremony.

The last thing the Chinese government wants is a stadium full of Tibetan flags. The Chinese army invaded Tibet in 1951 forcing its ruler the Dalai Lama to go into exile.

Since then the Communist government in Beijing has tried to integrate Tibet into China. There have been calls for the Chinese government to have talks with the Dalai Lama, but they have been ignored.


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  • Last Updated: 04 August 2008 9:39 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: 2008 Olympics
 
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05/08/2008 00:01:15
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05/08/2008 00:08:23
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Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 05/08/2008 00:13:46
Clearly obvious the tennis spokes-gal didn't do well in geography.
It's Tennis "Scotland" yer working for hon. The blue flag folks.
I'm sure she does a great brochure, though.
And by-the-way why is Hepburn only e-mailing some low-life middle runger? Top of the totem pole for you me son.
It's Gordon Brown's problem. So it should be Gordon Brown's answer. He is Scottish isn't he?
6

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 05/08/2008 00:22:27

Well if the few that disgraced and associated our flag with hooliganism, while abroad at football matches, the outcome may have been different.

NO Country in their right mind will fly a flag that only spells out one thing, Thugs, Hooliganism and Violence!

We have the few to blame for this, for making our Flag,..


A disgrace to Scotland!
7

Mercian,

UK 05/08/2008 00:23:45
#1 Front Bottom

You have free speech to express your views and the right to vote for whoever standing; in short you not oppressed. If you want to know what oppression feels like ask a Tibetan exile.

8

JulesF,

05/08/2008 00:35:11
My interest in the whole Olympic thing is flagging :(
9

Mercian,

UK 05/08/2008 00:36:57
#8 Front Bottom

I've just read some of your other comments on a different thread and realise your post at #1 is probably satire, in which case ignore previous post at #7
10

Statsman,

Edinburgh 05/08/2008 00:38:02
This Olympics is a disgrace. I won't be watching.
11

A Scot in China,

Chongqing 05/08/2008 00:46:03
Mercian #7 Have you ever been to China or have you been soaking up too much of the BBC china Bashing propaganda, I think the latter, mate nobody is oppressed in China like you think, life is getting better for people here everyday. In addition read your history, Tibet is china, with the execption of about 50 years during the last 1400 years.
12

A Scot in China,

Chongqing 05/08/2008 00:48:34
Statsman #10, don't watch it mate, watch the international news coverage instead and soak up the propaganda like you have done so far.
13

Iainbroch,

Moray 05/08/2008 01:09:50
Why do we need a second article on this?

I can think of several reasons for not watching the olympics! I will not be watching the London olympics and I did not watch any of the previous 5 olympics, nothing personal against any nation that happenned to be hosts.

I have been deeply cynical about the olympics as a sporting occasion for several decades now! The gross commercialism and drugs cheating was more than enough to switch me off to it. The IOC itself is hopelessly corrupt. The politics of the whole thing is just an extra dimension to an event I switched off to a long time agao!

If the olympics cant survive a bit of free speech then perhaps we should just scrap the whole bizarre and gross circus - as that is what it has become! Next they will be having cwicket, golf and morris dancing as evemts?
14

AM2,

Scotland,UK 05/08/2008 01:15:04
Clearly the SNP has a vested interest in playing this one out in the public arena. It’s all part of the agenda to make Scotland look downtrodden. That much almost goes without saying.

But on the substance of the issue, I don't think it’s good enough for the IOC simply to refer the ISO 3166 list of nation states and then be rigid about it. I can understand the need to regulate such things, but shouldn’t each National Olympic Committee be able to provide a list?

In most countries there would still be just one flag, but in various others which have an incorporating or federal union structure, things just aren’t that simple.

In our own case, I can understand why some unofficial flags (such as the Ulster Banner) might be contentious, but I can see no reason why the Union Flag, the Saltire, the Red Dragon and the Cross of St George shouldn’t be permitted.

And here's another point. A Deadline Scotland report said:

"The decision has caused controversy among proud Scottish nationalists who say fans should be able to fly whatever flag they want."

That’s another little piece of evidence that the Saltire has been hijacked, at least in some people’s minds. It shouldn’t just be a nationalist issue.

So if the unionist parties are really serious about reclaiming and depoliticising the Saltire for use by all of the people of Scotland, they should get themselves solidly behind the SNP’s representations, and if an IOC rule really is the problem, get it changed in time for London 2012.
15

Silence of the Yams,

05/08/2008 01:17:25
40 years old and I still don't get why we don't have our own Olympic team. It would have meant nothing to me to win a gold and have the English anthem played, nothing. Scotland is my nation, not England, or North Britain.
16

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 05/08/2008 01:20:37

It has nothing to do with Politics, ..'Full Stop'!

It is to do with 'Thugs' what others see as our "Flag" represents!
17

Conan the Librarian™,

05/08/2008 01:22:17
17
Perhaps a case could be made for flying the Saltire and St George's on the same pole as they are components of the Union flag?

Scots would fly the Saltire above, of course:-)
18

archie23,

london 05/08/2008 01:25:04
Post 11 - A scot in china..

You might find this an interesting piece of propaganda

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tibet
19

A Scot in China,

Chongqing 05/08/2008 01:51:35
Thanks Archie for directing me to wikipedia, that world famous source of accurate information, interesting that I did check what it said something that the BBC would tell you I couldn't do from here in China or for that matter how I can read the scotsman website and post on this blog from here in Chongqing, haven't you been told back in the UK that i Can't do this.
20

A Scot in China,

Chongqing 05/08/2008 01:56:44
Interesting point, do you know the Chinese for Britain and how they will refer to us in the Olympics, Ying Guo, sound like England to me.
21

Tiree,

Vancouver BC 05/08/2008 02:01:59
11 A Scot in China,Chongqing

You expect people to believe you?

You obviously have no idea that people outside China can think for themselves or realize what is happening.

For a start, these so-called rulers have never been elected by theople. There is no democracy in China. The people have no rights other than what they can scrimmage between the lines of conformity, stupity and exploitation

If you think that because you are in Chna, that you have any divine right to sell us your stupidity and propaganda then you refuse to, or don't care to, nderstand the plight of the people there. They are our brothers and sisters - just as the people in Darfur are - and your sick regime in their selfishness and utter disregard for the plight of fellow human beings has chosen to thwart the interests of the UN.

Not to mention the Fallon Gong and others. Please! Please!, don't give us your political stupidity It doesn' work here!

Tiree
22

frank mcbride,

lusitania 05/08/2008 02:03:42
Mr Linskaill.

Would you care to enlighten us?

AM2.

Why, exactly, should the flag of NI be excluded?

Is it because Ireland is represented by a United Ireland team at the Olympics? Or are you trying to make yourself out to be im(partial)?

You really are, scraping the bottom ofthe barrel.
23

frank mcbride,

lusitania 05/08/2008 02:09:33
# A Scot in China.

You have a right to express an opinion however wrong it is.
24

A Scot in China,

chongqing 05/08/2008 02:14:08
Ah Tiree, I like you train of thought, the usual diregard for facts. The Chinese government is a non elected body that is correct, we all know that, but over the last 30 years this single party system has lifted 300 million people out of poverty and improved the lives of every single chinese person, and this is an undisputable fact, were it not for the sinle party system this would not be the case. Your government in Canada does not do as much for you as the chinese one does for it's citizens.
Admittedly a rocky road is up ahead for China and how it navigate this road will be a hard one but don't preach to them about human rights when they are doing so much to improve the lives of their own people.

And mate, don't begin to bring in the UN and Darfur, have you any idea how much the Chinese do in Africa to improve things there as well. And if there are one group of countries that have done the most to destroy the UN it is us and our all good all knowing western imperialist agenda.
25

Edward,

05/08/2008 02:19:27
Im already sick of the Olympics and it hasnt even started yet!
All we get is Paul Radcliffe this and Paula Radcliffe that on the BBC
Ye when Andy Murray won the tennis in the USA, there was hardly a mention on the BBC network news, not even a peice seeing him getting the trophy, perhaps if he had been English it would have been different

26

A Scot in China,

Chongqing 05/08/2008 02:20:39
What we don't understand as westerners is the Chinese, in everyway in life they are different from us, for us to talk about them as if we know is laughable especially for all those who have commented on them without actually every coming to this country, I invite you to come and have a look you'll be surprised. And if you don't come, stay at home they will come to you very soon when they buy up your businesses and cities and towns.
27

AM2,

Scotland,UK 05/08/2008 02:20:51
#25 Frank McBride

Athletes from Northern Ireland can choose to represent either Team GB or the Ireland team, which will of course use the Irish Tricolour. No issue there.

The Saltire, Red Dragon, Cross of St George and Union Flag are all official.

But what many people would regard as the closest thing to an NI flag, the so-called Ulster Banner, is no longer official. It's also rejected by many and would therefore be contentious. I'm not saying that it "should" be excluded but I don't see why that thorny issue should prevent people from waving any of the four official flags.

As for "make yourself out to be im(partial)" and "scraping the bottom of the barrel", your incessant presumption of malintent and your attack-dog tactics are really quite wearing. It would be refreshing if we could debate/discuss without such intrusions. Is that too much to hope for?
28

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 05/08/2008 03:10:42
#15

So Bermuda gets to wave a flag and Scotland is banned. Now that makes a lot of sense. Still waiting for Gordon "Useless" Brown's patethic answer.
29

Black & White Triumph,

Greenhill road....soon 05/08/2008 03:12:58
By the next Olympics we will be independent and our own flag will be flown if of course there is a next Olympics.
30

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05/08/2008 03:22:00
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2dogs in D.C.,

05/08/2008 03:30:37
To-A Scot In China, Really man, if you want to convince anyone here that you are a Scot, work on your English. Admittedly you are real close, but no cigar. I will admit that you do tow a good party line. Sic 'em GUGA.
32

A Scot in China,

Chongqing 05/08/2008 03:49:31
Whit dae ya mean am no a real scot, pal, i wis readin oor wullie when i wis a wee laddie back doon in Drylaw auld reekie. Auld scots by the way.
Zhongwen, ni ting dong de ma, wo lai zi su ge lan. wo bu lai zi ying guo zhong guo
33

Sylvia in Regina,

Canada 05/08/2008 04:13:03
For those that don't want to watch the Olympic games, we may all be in the same boat!! Won't be able to see them because the smog-like pollution is getting really thick again, even though they have shut down some factories and banned many cars from driving in their city... We can only hope our athletes don't suffer with respiratory problems during and after the games.
34

missing home,

la verne 05/08/2008 04:19:17
Wear a Saltire t shirt, a large section of them would be encouraging aand you could take them off and wave them about if you like. Or, what I've seen done before, arrange for fans to either wear blue or white shirts and seat them to form a large saltire.
35

HGR,

NZ 05/08/2008 04:30:47
But the swastika was OK in 1936, and the OIC made all the athletes give a nazi salute. Am I the only one who can see the similarities with 2008?
36

A Scot in China,

Chongqing 05/08/2008 04:39:16
Sylvia #37, Why is this pollution so bad in China? AS you said the factories, the factories where they make all the cheap plastic, cheap toys, cheap microwaves, cheap toasters, cheap irons, cheap rubbish that we have in our houses in the west, to save us money.
Human rights - they get paid so little in China? Why? so we can have cheap plastic, cheap toys, cheap..............
Human rights, we must think the chinese humans don't have the rights to money.
37

A Scot in China,

chongqing 05/08/2008 04:40:58
HGR #39 no you are not the only one who can't see the difference, but that's because you are not the only one who has watched or read the western propaganda.
38

Conan the Librarian™,

05/08/2008 04:57:00
41
http://tinyurl.com/66tpae
39

A Scot in China,

chongqing 05/08/2008 05:17:33
Yeah I like it Conan, gave me a laugh, what's your interpreation though, positive or negative?
40

Lanna,

05/08/2008 05:18:39
#38
subversively simple solution!
41

beentheredonethat,

usa 05/08/2008 05:20:05
Having the Olympics in China is a disgrace. A communist country who is controlling another, but they have no oil so the world doesn't care.
42

James Donald,

Newbridge 05/08/2008 05:24:19
#36 A Scot in China,Chongqing - As a real Scot from Drylaw, you'll remember the name of the Chippie in D.Mains and the names of the 3 pubs on Main Street will you no.
Reading Oor Wullie doesn't make you Scots.
43

Jock Lao Wai,

China 05/08/2008 05:27:53
Scot in China, while it is true that the Chinese government has made excellent progress in raising unprecendented people out of poverty and in generating a phenomenal growth in the economy which has huge knock-on benefits for many people, it is completely disingenuous of you to say that the life of everyone in China has improved. Try telling those who are executed for crimes on flimsy evidence, the Tibetans who still aspire to independence (or at least autonomy), and especially those who dare to voice dissent against this government. While a lot of good is being done at the top level, fact is that corruption is rife, especially at lower levels. And when there is no democracy or free speech then there is no accountability. And then all bets are off.

I too think it is overkill to make comparisons between modern China and Nazi Germany, but I must confess that the same thought came to my mind when seeing the scale of the torch procession and the attendant security. From western perspective, it seemed to be somehow missing the point..
44

postmark fifty-fyve,

China, 05/08/2008 05:28:55
A Scot in China,,
Wow, you're a breath of fresh air, and you know China cos you live here. Thanks for stepping up to the plate, much appreciated and won't be forgotten. I am Canadian, trying desperately to get my Chinese citizenship, but still waiting. You, because you live here, can see what I see daily, the improvement in the lives of the Chinese citizens, something the west is always denying and lying about. Keep up the fight, I greatly admire you for that.
45

Conan the Librarian™,

05/08/2008 05:29:22
43
Love the people, hate the government...

...Of just about anywhere.

Apart from Scotland of course:-)
46

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05/08/2008 05:31:45
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Pilrig.,

Livingston 05/08/2008 05:34:28
10 & 11 - Maoist greyhoond (running dog)
48

Pilrig.,

Livingston 05/08/2008 05:36:46
27 how now brown-nosed Mao ?
49

Guga II,

Rockall 05/08/2008 05:39:52
#36.

We know you are really DraggingHead, using yet another name.

#30 AM Squared.

You really do have problems. You seem to be totally ashamed of being Irish, even to the extent of calling your blog ScottishUnionist.com. Incidentally, your blog looks as if it should really be called BNP.com.
50

Pilrig.,

Livingston 05/08/2008 05:40:05
46 - "A Scot in China" was in the YMD (Young Maoist Drylaw)
51

postmark fifty-fyve,

China, 05/08/2008 05:40:25
#45 beentheredonethat,
Please take a look at just one of our oil reserves. But please, I beg you, don't tell your Administration, OK?

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-12/23/content_402814.htm
52

Pilrig.,

Livingston 05/08/2008 05:41:40
53 - dragonheid was Mao's love child.
53

A Scot in China,

Chongqing 05/08/2008 05:45:05
I cannae mind what the chippie was called, but it was on the corner, italian i think, the corbet maybe, and I think one of the pubs in Dmains was the norhet?? just beside the greiggs.

Jock Lao Wai, I am not trying to say China is utopia, I can see all the problems they still have here, but things are on the up and lets face it, the government have given people a higher standard of living, more money in their pockets, an economy that is the envy of the world, if there was an election would Hu jin tao be voted out, doubt it. I know if alex salmmoned did about 10 % of what the chinese have done they would have him in charge for the next 20 years and we would be independent.
54

postmark fifty-fyve,

China, 05/08/2008 05:47:01
Hey Guga ll old buddy old pal, how's it going eh? Sorry to disappoint, but I'm having coffee with Dragonhead as you're reading this, so back to the drawing board for you. So how's it going eh?
55

A Scot in China,

Chongqing 05/08/2008 05:49:55
??????
56

,

05/08/2008 05:51:11
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Guga II,

Rockall 05/08/2008 05:55:00
#58 Skidmark.

It's going fine at this end. Hope you'll be flying a Tibetan flag at the Olympics.
58

postmark fifty-fyve,

China, 05/08/2008 06:04:45
#61 Guga ll,
Sorry buddy, There don't seem to be any around, they keep telling me that it's all part of China now, go figure eh?
59

Conan the Librarian™,

05/08/2008 06:08:50
62
Here's one.

http://www.savetibet.org/images/images/TibetFlag.gif

Can ye no get google in China?
60

postmark fifty-fyve,

China, 05/08/2008 06:14:17
#63 Conan the Librarian™,
Strangest thing pal, that site won't open for me, and yes, I use Google daily, no problems there.
61

Conan the Librarian™,

05/08/2008 06:18:03
64
You must mean Google lite.

Try here.

http://www.flags.net/TIBE.htm
62

James Donald,

Newbridge 05/08/2008 06:21:22
#57 A Scot in China,Chongqing - Nice try but no medals for this BS.
63

Phil C,

05/08/2008 06:22:10
Scotland is a nation in it's own right anyway, even if we are denied our primary right to self-governance. And we're part of the Olympic movement, within the UK. I don't see the problem. Is this the Chinese being mischevious or the media? My money's on the media muckrakers.

There will be Saltires & St George's Crosses flying so let's not make an issue of it.
64

James Donald,

Newbridge 05/08/2008 06:25:07
#60 postmark fifty-fyve,Red cesspit - Terms and conditions, old man, terms and conditions. It must be difficult for you to controll your own bodily functions (especially when you are so full of it) now that you are 50+ but don't worry, the party will "take care" of you when you go totally ga ga.
65

,

05/08/2008 06:26:08
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postmark fifty-fyve,

China, 05/08/2008 06:28:59
#65 Conan the Librarian™,
Sorry, still no go on that site either, and no, I access the real Google site here, not the watered down version.
67

Guga II,

Rockall 05/08/2008 06:32:16
#62 Skidmark.

I'll be happy to post you a Tibetan flag, along with a book on the complete history and culture of the Tibetan nation prior to its illegal occupation and suppression by the Chinese. Let me have your address.
68

postmark fifty-fyve,

China, 05/08/2008 06:35:25
#68 James Donald,
You just don't get it do you? Your childish bans are just a minor inconvenience to me now, and as you've seen a half a dozen or more times now, I just keep coming back, so report me all you want. I will keep showing up like a bad penny, and you can't hide from me, not even when you come here as Vehm Gericht.
69

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05/08/2008 06:39:18
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Guga II,

Rockall 05/08/2008 06:40:00
#70 Skidmark.

I can save you a lot of effort too, so that you don't waste time trying to access things that have been blocked by the Golden Shield Project. Here is a list of sites blocked by the Chinese government:

http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/filtering/china/China-highlights.html

And as further assistance to you, here is a list of censored words :

http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2004/08/the-words-you-never-see-in-chinese-cyberspace/

Happy push-ups.


71

Conan the Librarian™,

05/08/2008 06:42:13
69
Hey old buddy old pal, did you learn your American from Scooby Doo cartoons?

James is from Newbridge, he doesn't need to go to a gay bar in Edinburgh when he has the Newbridge Inn on his doorstep.
Failing that there is the Strathbrock in Broxburn.
72

James Donald,

Newbridge 05/08/2008 06:43:01
#72 postmark fifty-fyve,Red China - I think you should ask yourself why it is you cannot post without breaching the not unreasonable terms and conditions. Do you feel the need for childish insults or is it that you just don't get it?
73

James Donald,

Newbridge 05/08/2008 06:50:52
#75 Conan the Librarian - This is what passes for wit in Chongqing, the attempted smear that a child in Primary 7 would disown. I do drink in the Newbridge Inn which has spruced up its beer garden (mostly for the smokers) - even if it is a bit noisy because of the air traffic.
74

Conan the Librarian™,

05/08/2008 06:59:06
77
May have seen you there James.
Not been there much since the said sprucing up though as I used to take my dogs that way and grab a pint or two before heading back; nowadays it always seems closed.
I head for the other nearby pub in Kirky these days.
75

Guga II,

Rockall 05/08/2008 07:23:14
#78.

You're forgetting that the Angles and Saxons came from Germany, so the English are, in fact, foreigners.

As for that garbage about being the planet's first mathematicians, the original inhabitants of this country, the Celtic people, may have been mathematicians, but there is no evidence that the Angles or Saxons, who didn't come to this country till much, much later, were. Moreover, you are forgetting the Indians and Egyptians.

Never mind, the Chinese will allow you to wave your Butcher's Apron, with or without angles on it.

76

,

05/08/2008 07:29:34
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77

sholto,

glasgow 05/08/2008 07:33:16
If states are only allowed to fly official flags why is Team GB using the flag of the UK.
There is no UK team in the Olyimpics ,only a team from Great Britain, which is not a recognised state.
78

Sinead,

Tanunda 05/08/2008 07:33:44
#4 Mine flagged long time ago,won't see much for the smog anyhow.
79

Robbo,

Cape Town 05/08/2008 07:54:00
#46
Corbie,Lauriston,Norhet, ye olde inn
80

daveserviceman,

edinburgh 05/08/2008 08:02:10
I do not know what all the fuss is about I have no interest in flags after all they are only pieces of rag with a bit of coloured dye on them,
only people who have an identity crisis cling to them I certainally dont need one to show who I am. I just know who I belong too there is no Identity insecurity or crisis in my Clan
81

carrottop,

Dumfries 05/08/2008 08:16:07
Scotland is part of the UK therefore is a member.
So many ways round this 'ban' headscarf, towel, handkerchief (large) etc if the ban even exists, I for one dont believe it will ever be implemented and also dont believe everything I read.
82

James Donald,

Newbridge 05/08/2008 08:24:55
#79 Conan the Librarian™ - I actually prefered the Newbridge when Dave and June were in charge - the new owners did away with the lounge bar and that somehow changed the character. Still it is hard to imagine the village without the Inn and the regulars seem to keep it going. I have been know to head for the Newliston Arms but it is quite a long bimble to there (and even longer coming back).
83

RTL,

Edinburgh 05/08/2008 08:27:31
SO WHATS WRONG WITH THE UNION JACK!
Its always been good enough for our troops to fight wars and lose their lives under.

The native Chinese would hardly be likely to even recognise the Saltire, ST Georges Cross or the Welsh Dragon, but at least the National Flag of Britain would be Recognised.

Whether they like it or not, the Scottish, English & Welsh nationalists are British ... if thats too tough for them ...emigrate
84

James Donald,

Newbridge 05/08/2008 08:33:54
#81 postmark fifty-fyve,Red China - Red China, Red Cesspit and workers' paradise do not breach the terma and conditions of the Scotsman site neither are they personal insults directed at other posters of the type you "dish out" when anyone's opinion differs from your own. So spare me the lecture on maturity (maturity being very different from just being old).
"As I've told you many times before, I out-wit you, I out-class you" - You have told me this many times before but this does not make any of your shallow self-praise any more true.
If you are a "big boy", you could always try dieting.
85

Ardaz Nayles,

Scotland 05/08/2008 08:42:27
I'm affronted, I really am.

I didn't know about rule 51 of the IOC, otherwise I would have protested before now.

China could easily have made an exception for visitor nations, specifically or generally.

I'm going to boycott the Games, and I urge all those in Government to do likewise.
I will tell all my Chinese contacts (including Chinese diplomats) of the reason for my boycott.

I'm going to stand up and be counted. I hope that others will too.
86

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 05/08/2008 08:47:52
#28 Edward
"when Andy Murray won the tennis in the USA, there was hardly a mention on the BBC network news, not even a peice seeing him getting the trophy, perhaps if he had been English it would have been different"

Well I saw news of Murray's win on BBC 10 O'clock news and it was featured on radio too.

Would you like fish on your head to go with those chips on your shoulders?
87

,

05/08/2008 08:48:42
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88

akjem,

dundee 05/08/2008 08:57:04
So the IOC rules will not permit the displaying of non-participant 'flags' at Olympic events..........so what? I think a few people on this site are using any excuse they can find to have a go at the Chinese government. Under the democratic 'British' flag, you can go to prison on the basis of evidence from a corrupt police force, you can be arrested for publicly reading aloud the names of victims of war, your country can participate in illegal wars, your son or daughter can be sent overseas to die for Britain as a result of not being issued with proper equipment, your son or daughter can be harrassed and/or arrested if their skin tone offends the 'state', politicians can cheat and lie with impunity, etc........
89

Lesley McDade,

Edinburgh 05/08/2008 08:59:57
Chinese Olympics - Chinese Rules - I don't have a problem with that so long as the rules are uniformly applied.

This is a non-story, there are far more important stories in the world that need publicity.

If the Olympics don't set the rules per se to which anyone succeeding to attract an Olympic bid, then you have to expect to accede to the host's rules.

The Union Jack comprises a Saltire - no big deal then.
90

Webbie,

mullingar 05/08/2008 09:03:23
Plain statement of fact, We are not allowed to fly the flag of any non IOC member state....
Simple solution......become an independent state and then join the IOC.
BUT WOULD WE THEN HAVE ANY REASON TO WAVE OUR NATIONAL FLAG AT THE OLYMPIC GAMES????????
91

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05/08/2008 09:04:49
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92

Alastair the First,

05/08/2008 09:16:04
6: What a load of rubbish. Scottish fans with Saltires are welcomed everywhere around the world (although those who choose to wave Union flags are not...).

BTW Why is it that Scotland can't have her own Olympic team but has to be an appendix to a GB team, whereas NI can take part as part of an Irish team when NI is, we are constantly told, a part of the UK?

I reckon by 2012 we will have our own Olympic team, and then we will have a team to support. As for this "Team GB", well they certainly don't have my support and I know very few who will be getting behind them. Have to say though most people seem to have very little interest in the Olympics at all.
93

A Scot in China,

Chongqing 05/08/2008 09:20:56
The McKellarator, Taiwan will fly their flag as Chinese Taipei, but technically speaking they are not a country, one china policy, and I think the taiwanesse are coming around to that, especially now that they know where the money is.
94

AJ Fife,

05/08/2008 09:25:03
Instead of banning flags the Chinese should be more concerned about banning performance enhancing drugs. Oops I forgot, the Chinese are the finest exponents of that, so nae chance of that happening then!

These games will be a disaster (Andy Murray apart). The main athletics events will be awash with cheats! It'll hardly be worth watching. Why get excited about a winner, when you know in all probability he/she has been 'at it'. and will stripped of the medal later?
95

subrosa,

05/08/2008 09:50:56
'James Donald, Newbridge 05/08/2008 05:24:19
#36 A Scot in China,Chongqing -
Reading Oor Wullie doesn't make you Scots.'

True but understanding it does :)
96

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05/08/2008 10:05:53
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97

Political Exile,

Not in Beijing 05/08/2008 10:09:31
Rule 51 of the IOC Charter states nothing about flags being displayed by spectators. The facts are, yet again, being distorted by journalists!

The rule concerns Advertising, Demonstrations and Propoganda. A flag, be it national, regional, provincial or otherwise could be considered as propoganda if the countries using such a flag(s) are in dispute with the Olympic Movement or the Host Nation.

I am not aware of Scotland being in dispute with the IOC or China!

This is a 'nothing' story.
98

James Donald,

Newbridge 05/08/2008 10:13:35
# 122 subrosa - Amazing that this guy has gone from the mean streets of Drylaw (altough he can't recall the names of various locations there) and can still understand Oor Wullie. I wonder how long it takes to get the Sunday Post delivered to Chongqing.
99

Ned,

Morningside 05/08/2008 10:22:04
Just one comment.
Cathy Freeman displayed the Aboriginal flag at the Commonwealth games .
When she won in Sydney she displayed the Australian flag.
100

Ned,

Morningside 05/08/2008 10:22:25
Just one comment.
Cathy Freeman displayed the Aboriginal flag at the Commonwealth games .
When she won in Sydney she displayed the Australian flag.
101

No thanks...,

Edimbourg 05/08/2008 10:23:50
Just because China has problems in its own society it shouldnt be allowed to influence others by this ban. The UK is reasonably comfortable with its Collective status of countries, thats why the Union flag incorporates 3 of the main countries. Wales should be added to the Union flag in my opinion e.g. a dragon in the centre. The more you ban something the more it will become the norm.
102

Ned,

Morningside 05/08/2008 10:24:25

Sorry for double up ( wasnt trying to prove a point ).
103

Arran of Arran,

Arran 05/08/2008 10:24:58
There is only on single solution:

BOYCOTT!!! BOYCOTT!! BOYCOTT!!

By everyone! No participation. No spectating. No reading and heraring any news. No watching TV. And that worldwide.
What would the Chinese (still deeply maoist-repressive communist) rulers do, if not a single athlete would turn up? If no visitor to China would set a foot into their stadiums? If all the Sponsors would jump in droves and ask for the money back?
Worst case for them, they would loose their faces.
104

Ned,

Morningside 05/08/2008 10:25:42

Sorry for double up ( wasnt trying to prove a point ).
105

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 05/08/2008 10:31:23
For once a common sense decision. Scotland is not yet independent and has no right to fly its flag until it is. If and until the day it votes for independence it is just a small borough of the United Kingdom. Fact.
106

voltaire's janny,

05/08/2008 10:32:34
#89

You are kidding me. The old Newbridge Inn was the worst pub I have ever been in, encapsulating as it did all the worst features of parochial, dour, hostile, xenophobic Scottish cringe.

I am a near neighbour and have never been back. I walked in with a friend and the metaphorical piano stopped. The locals, regulars all, stopped their chat. Every one had a glass part full.

The barman, with fists on the bar, asked each of more than eight individuals if they needed anything. Still ignoring us he scanned the seated crowd with the same inquiry.

Finally, probably after washing a glass or two, changing an optic, he turned to his potential source of incremental new business.

"Yes?"

Well f*** you too. No wonder they went out of business.

Good riddance. Maybe I'll try again to see if foreigners frae the likes o' Rathae or the Station are acceptable now to the regulars or if they remain the shower of losers whose ancestors would have hated the innovation eponymous with their sordid little sh1thole.
107

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05/08/2008 10:44:29
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postmarkfiftyphive,

China, 05/08/2008 10:49:28
#130 Arran of Arran,
Sorry there pal, you kind of missed the boat with your proposal, seems that everybody is already here, and they ain't gonna listen to you..
But thanks for the suggestion, when the criminal British regime hosts the 2012 Olympics, maybe everybody will take your advice.
109

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05/08/2008 10:54:55
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110

Phil C,

05/08/2008 11:00:55
#121

The feardie unionists and the media are denying us self governance. Fortunately more and more are seeing the light.

There's another thread which was ruined by some unionist Banker. It reads "First Minister branded an 'international flop' over nuclear arms". When we read the story we discover that hidden well down the story the branding was done by Scotland's biggest flop- Jackie 'The Hutt' Baillie! Nuff said.
111

AM2,

Scotland,UK 05/08/2008 11:06:44
#53 Guga II

Your comment reveals only your own thought processes. I'm not in the least "ashamed" of being either Irish (by birth) or Scottish (by adoption). You, on the other hand, seem intent on trying to deny me the latter, presumably for political reasons as I haven't heard you raise any similar complaints about nationalist politicians Mike Russell or Bashir Ahmed, neither of whom were born in Scotland.

As far as the Northern Ireland flag issue goes, I was thinking only that some degree of regulation would be necessary to make the games as apolitical as possible. Hence the idea of an "official" flag. Perhaps I was being too rigid, as I note from this Irish Times piece that the Amnesty International programme director for NI refers to “the Northern Ireland or Ulster flags”, as if it's more of a settled issue than I had thought.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/0804/breaking18.htm
112

Scottie,

South Africa 05/08/2008 11:07:07
Britain, with all the surrounding islands, didn't have an "indigenous" population, people moved there from other countries, all of them having started off in Africa. It was recently 'proven' via some new testing that the Scots have the same blood, or part of it, as the North Africans, like Morroco etc.

Malta, btw, has the oldest habitation on Earth that has been discovered up to now. Babylon and other places around there need a whole lot more excavation.
113

John S,

05/08/2008 11:13:35
China-Flag of St George ban is going to make English Olympic stars really cross.
I would say Rule 51 of the IOC won't be enforced during the London 2012 Olympic Games.
114

Sláine,

05/08/2008 11:15:18
Rulesbutnotrulers & gugaII - Boys, if you're going to have a bunfight about indigenous people...

...#78 - "We indigenees are neither Scots nor Angles, etc. We are all Britons"

#80 - "the original inhabitants of this country, the Celtic people"...

...at least do some research and try to learn something about your origins, (presumably you are both asserting that 'indigenous = autochtone' and that 'this country = Scotland'), the original people of Scotland, (supported by the earliest artifacts, various historical Celtic references, and of course Roman historical documentary), were in fact the Picts...

...the word Pict is often misquoted as being a roman word meaning 'painted ones', (referring to the pictish custom of tattooing), when in fact there is far stronger evidence to suggest that the word originates from the tribal name 'Pexa' or 'Pecht' which were derived from the early mesolithic people of Scotland...

...and that the Celtic sea-trading people of Gaul known as the 'Pectones' or 'Pictones' were direct descendants of the Scottish Picts...

...'Briton' is a word used to describe the people (or cheese eating surrender monkeys) who lived under Roman rule...

...and of course we all know the historical fact that 'Hadrian's wall' was in fact the 3rd of 4 Roman fortifications, (beginning with Agricola's Ditch and ending with the Antonine Wall), built to contain the fearsome Picts within 'Pictavia' and as a symbol of the might of the Roman Empire, (primarily the former as the Picts scared the cr^p out of the latter)...

...Know your origins and be proud, for once we were fearsome warriors...

...to paraphrase; I do wish history was better taught. It would save you guys from embarrassment.......
115

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05/08/2008 11:15:50
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postmarkfiftyphive,

China, 05/08/2008 11:17:57
#119 AJ Fife,
It's not the Chinese government that imposed this, but rather the IOC, we're just enforcing it.
As far as banning drugs go, we too have banned it, but there will always be cheaters, and they come from all nations, yes, including China. There's too much money at stake, and the so called sport has become big business. Again, you can't place all the blame on China.
117

Blindscout,

Fife 05/08/2008 11:23:35
Num 90

Our troops never followed the Union Jack, only the Union Flag or more correctly the Flag of the Union of the United Kingdoms (England that included Wales as a territory, Scotland and N Ireland). A Jack is flown from the Jack Staff at the bow of a ship. So British sailors may have followed the Union Jack but never troops.
118

Memyself&I,

05/08/2008 11:24:24
FFS

It's a flag and the decision had nothing to do with offending seperatists monkeys such as you lot.

GET A LIFE! It is truelly pathetic.
119

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05/08/2008 11:27:30
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,

05/08/2008 11:28:47
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subrosa,

05/08/2008 11:30:06
I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but isn't it a flag over 2m x 1m that's banned? That's the size of the flag I fly in my garden and it's plenty big enough for one person to hold or even to be prominent on a flagpole.
122

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05/08/2008 11:31:46
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archie23,

london 05/08/2008 11:32:41
Scot in China.

Pleased to hear that you have access to the Scotsman and Oor Wullie in China. The cultural revolution is clearly still alive.

Who told you that "Tibet is china, with the execption of about 50 years during the last 1400 years." ?

Which 50 years are you referring to?



124

,

05/08/2008 11:49:49
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,

05/08/2008 11:50:28
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European Scot,

05/08/2008 11:54:29
152 Peter Baleares

" Is it true that The Romans built their boundry seperating what is now England from Scotland because the `Picts` were a savage people who had nothing of any value, had the ugliest of women, and it rained constantly, and therefore was not seen an assett to the Roman Empire in any shape or form ?"

Ha Ha !

It's actually 'boundary', and 'separating'.
Nothing of any value ? Try, good education !
127

Scottish then British,

Corstorphine 05/08/2008 11:55:41
Scottish flag waving banned.
Have the English, Welsh and Irish flags been banned?

Only wave the Union Flag that will make the English fans happy they think it`s their flag anyway.

No politics in sport aye right.
128

James Donald,

Newbridge 05/08/2008 11:56:30
#133 voltaire's janny - How many years ago was this horror experience you had? Perhaps you are basing your opinion on one visit a number of years ago which is hardly fair.
In spite of losing your custom (half pint and two straws?), the pub did not close and was sold by the previous owners (who were a seperated man and wife who remained as business partners until the business was sold) and, as far as I know, it is still open (haven't checked this week).
I am from Corstorphine and have never had any trouble with the staff or regulars in the Newbridge Inn. If you are from Rathae, you may care to try the Bridge Inn and let me know if you get good service there. I believe that the Hollybush is now closed, it having been a place that more aptly fitted your description of the Newbridge Inn.
129

European Scot,

05/08/2008 11:58:56
152 Peter Baleares

..... and asset !
130

Sláine,

05/08/2008 12:05:26
#152 see #157...

...#157 :-D roflmao RESPECT.......
131

Memyself&I,

05/08/2008 12:10:39
#151 Haha,...it's much the same today, especially if you head through the west. This is coming from a Scotsman.

Incredibly some people are actually proud of this. Most are SNP supporters.
132

Brian Hill,

05/08/2008 12:16:12
I'm afraid I have never supported Britain in any of its endeavours. Britain means England and I long for the day when the Murrays and the Hoys et al can run, hop, skip and jump for Scotland.



133

Strict Ivan Jellicoe,

Renfrew 05/08/2008 12:19:29
A ban on the Saltire at the Olympics?

COME AWAY MA' WEE GEORDIE!
134

ThomasP,

05/08/2008 12:19:47
#151

The Romans were planning an invasion into Scotland. There were problems at Rome that the Romans had to take care of first and were never able to launch an invasion.
135

European Scot,

05/08/2008 12:20:50
162 Slaine

Cheers !
136

RTL,

Edinburgh 05/08/2008 12:25:14
Num: 144 Blindscout,Fife 05/08/2008 11:23:35

I am well aware of the usage and name of the Union flag, the fact is that, although innacurate, it is more commonly described as the 'Union Jack'

Anyway, if your a blind scout how would you know the difference?
137

Scunner,

Ellon 05/08/2008 12:46:47
Another reason to vote for a party that supports independence at the next election.



138

European Scot,

05/08/2008 13:08:28
170 Peter Baleares

Glad to see your spelling has improved, but alas, not your humour !
139

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05/08/2008 13:13:28
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McMillar,

Fife (kingdom of...and probably has own flag somew 05/08/2008 13:22:56
Can’t believe this story is still on web site…pointless ramblings by Scotsman to inflame the nationalist debate and bring out the usual trolls. Much as I am proud to be Scottish I couldn’t care less about which flag is displayed. They are there representing Team GB and that’s under the union flag. Can have all the flag waving you want if they are successful and fly back to a Scottish airport post event. We don’t get this hung up when other events are on….eg Ryder cup which starts soon. Even under the euro flag for that one.
141

Conan the Librarian™,

05/08/2008 13:30:47
153
Cankers

It was the moniker known as "David Banks" apparently to stop debate as the software will not let you post after a thousand comments.
142

kimba,

05/08/2008 13:33:08
Seems the Chinese are doing what Brown should of done months ago!
143

Conan the Librarian™,

05/08/2008 13:36:16
175
What? Ban the St George's Cross?

Some English Democrat you.
144

Jay Kay,

05/08/2008 13:49:07
Charles at #6 and #19, you talk about our flag beings the trademark of the hooligan,??? your talking about the saltire? thats our flag and no other, can you please clarify "being used by hooligans" ???

I never associate the saltire with hooliganism?

We true scots should have this represented throughout the world.

This the saltire is our flag>
145

ThomasP,

05/08/2008 13:50:35
#176

Huh?

GB really banned the St Georges Cross?

*Has a look outside of the window*

Holy sh!t there are none here, he has banned them.
146

kimba,

05/08/2008 13:51:39
176. LOL, No the bloody saltire!
147

Geoff,

sa 05/08/2008 13:58:29
These athletes are taking part as team Great Britain. The correct flag for such an occasion is the Union Jack.If Scotland or England,Wales NI become seperate states then they can fly seperate flags. Its that simple.
148

kimba,

05/08/2008 13:59:40
179. Try looking @ Stockton-on-Tees Town hall and the parish church,we have had the cross of st george flying high and proud for months,so go and shove that in your pipe and smoke it,TROLL.
149

kimba,

05/08/2008 14:01:53
181. exactly!
150

ThomasP,

05/08/2008 14:06:26
#181

Why should we choose to support a Flag that we either do not beleive in?

Or why should we hide what Britain is all about? The world would respect us if we did not hide the fact we are different countries who form one larger country and we are capable of getting along (alomst)?
151

Geoff,

sa 05/08/2008 14:07:39
144 Blindscout-it has been stated more than once in Parliament that the term 'Union Jack' is a perfectly acceptable title for the Union flag of GB and NI when flown on land-the nickname has passed into the language notwithstanding any possible previous restrictive origin. The use of the term UF as opposed to UJ based on the naval argument is considered unnecessarily pedantic. There is no proven explanation for the use of the word "Jack" in the name Union Jack-there are several theories as to its origin other than its association with the jack staff of a naval vessel. One such other possible origin is from the french as in Union Jacques for eg.
152

Rufus T. Firefly,

05/08/2008 14:10:15
Its great that the Union Flag still flies higher than the Saltire on Edinburgh Castle.

It must really stick in Salmonds throat.
153

kimba,

05/08/2008 14:12:07
184.Because we have gone as TEAM GB, as of such, we will perform as TEAM GB! If you and the rest of your cohorts don't like it,TOUGH!
154

Linda,

Edinburgh 05/08/2008 14:12:33
I assume Chris in number 6 is referring to the adoption of the Union Jack by right wing fascist groups and religious bigots which is reason enough for this flag to be replaced.
155

kimba,

05/08/2008 14:12:58
186. He gags every morning,LOL!
156

kimba,

05/08/2008 14:13:57
188. Only if we can replace you!
157

ThomasP,

05/08/2008 14:21:01
#187

And you may wonder why Scots would rather support anyone but England...
158

Rufus T. Firefly,

05/08/2008 14:21:18
188 Linda yeah right.

Of course that is a good enough reason.

But only in your dreams.
159

Rufus T. Firefly,

05/08/2008 14:23:01
192 ThomasP. Do not generalise.

Many Scots (including myself) want England to do well in sporting events.

It tends to be small minded SNP idiots who want England to fail.
160

ThomasP,

05/08/2008 14:24:06
#186

Having the Saltire flown at all is reward enough.

It's that small dose of reality for Unionists to remember that Nationalists are atm calling the shots.
161

ThomasP,

05/08/2008 14:26:17
#194

Many? I hardly expect many Scots would want to see England win.

Quite alot of Scots are tend to be fed up with the media and England whenever England manages to do well in sports.

So, quite alot of Scots enjoy watching England fail so we can laugh about it at the pub later.
162

Lanna,

05/08/2008 14:31:48
#153 Canky,
they just want to monitor some of the fun tis all.
btw, thanks for reminding me of that song ;p
163

wattie>x 1,

PLYMOUTH 05/08/2008 14:32:19
#24>> Democracy?

When has the majority of voters wishes ever been taken heed off in our "freedom" loving Democracy?
No government of the dis-united UK has EVER governed with a majority vote of the people in its history!
Our "democracy" is a sham and was rigged to keep the Establishment in control before and ever since the vote was finally given to women.
Read and absorb the history off the freedom loving UK!
Should you have a spare moment;,attempt to find out the truth about this Uks brutal colonial past and its
tally off granting the vote to the people they exploited for their resources,and still do!
Even if it means invading them un-invited, bombing and killing thousands of innocent victims.
164

ThomasP,

05/08/2008 14:32:40
#198

Course. The reason many Scots would rather support anyone but England is purely because they are seen as our rivals. It would be the same situation all over Europe and indeed the world, with countries and their neighbours.
165

Lanna,

05/08/2008 14:33:13
haha, Dave, sorry, if you was aiming for the 200 that is ;)

166

kimba,

05/08/2008 14:36:15
191. Christ you are a gomper, I don't "hate" the scots,my Dad is a "scot",what i hate is the salmond school of racism and bigotry,he emanates conflict between England and Scotland,and encoureges bad feelings between us,at the end of the day we are one nation with separate hearts!
167

Yeah1,

05/08/2008 14:41:13
#204

"I always thought the rivalry between us was reciprocated and equal."

No, in terms of football at least most English fans would support Scotland if they ever got to another World Cup or Euro Championships, whereas most Scots would support whoever England were playing against.

Its the inferiority complex - a lot of people hate neighbouring teams that are bigger/more successful than their own team.

This hatred is sometimes reciprocated by the 'bigger' team e.g. Real Madrid-Athletico Madrid or Liverpool-Everton, but in the case of England-Scotland the hatred is one way.
168

ThomasP,

05/08/2008 14:43:29
#206

You single handedly create border tension between Scotland and England yourself.

What was your claim for several days? Cameron would send soldiers into the UK to keep Scotland in the Union?

I have never been down to England, as an adult but god I dont know what I will do.
169

kimba,

05/08/2008 14:46:41
207. We all hate being ruled by government so far away,I live in the North-East of England,but, that is the way it is, GET OVER IT!
170

Lanna,

05/08/2008 14:47:52
#205/211 Dave,
well, thank ya there, sir.
rugby fan? ah, I knew ah liked ya!
171

Lanna,

05/08/2008 14:52:01
#217
America is jest fine, that's why I'm tuning in to hear ya'll argue about yer politics...I need the respite! :)
172

kimba,

05/08/2008 14:58:27
210. NO,Cameron WILL be the next PM of the UK,he has stated many times ""Let me make it one hundred percent clear: I am passionate about the Union. I don't want to be the Prime Minister of England. I want to be Prime Minister of the United Kingdom - all of it, including Scotland" he went on to say,"
"I absolutely believe we are stronger together, and weaker apart, and I will do anything and everything to keep our two countries as one. make up your own mind!
173

Lanna,

05/08/2008 15:01:46
#218 Dave,
and the party ain't even over yet! but politics is politics...may the best dog win




174

kimba,

05/08/2008 15:02:31
218. Heard MCcain has caught up with Obama!
175

ThomasP,

05/08/2008 15:02:58
#220

Cameron will support the Union. I am not denying that.

Cameron will not ignore a referendum that proves Scots do want Independence though.

You on the otherhand decide to spoil Cameron and pretend he has threatened to use soldiers against Scotland.

Where is the love from other Brothers and Sisters South of the Border?
176

kimba,

05/08/2008 15:03:48
221 Care to put a wee wager on that!
177

Yeah1,

05/08/2008 15:04:30
#216

"We are a singular nation, the "north east" is just a region."

When you consider that the human race has been around for 250,000 and the concept of nations and countries has only been around for a few thousand, the north-east has just as much right to be seperate from the UK as any other part of the UK (including Scotland).

Just because the north-east of England has not previously been a nation doesn't mean it shouldn't be one in the future.

See this quote:

"a nation is a form of self-defined cultural and social community. Members of a "nation" share a common identity, and usually a common origin, in the sense of history, ancestry, parentage or descent."

That statement can equally apply to Scotland or the north-east, or Wales, the south-east, East Anglia etc.

Just because Scotland was once a nation for a short period of time (in the overall length of time that humans have existed) doesn't give it any more rights to become a nation again than any other distinct part of the UK.
178

AJ Fife,

05/08/2008 15:04:40
Hi Lanna,

Do you know if you can buy Union Jack toilet roll in the States? If yes, could you send me a couple of boxes as our local shop has run out.....
179

ThomasP,

05/08/2008 15:05:11
#225

Supporting Scotland to much would damage the Tories in Middle England who feel the Scots are given to much...

Will the Tories give their support? No to the point ofoloosing their English support...
180

Yeah1,

05/08/2008 15:06:43
#221

"And, all the seats here will either be Labour, Lib/Dum or SNP."

Well actually at least 3-4 of the seats are likely to be tory based on current opinion polls - the tories already have 1 scottish seat in westminster and are likely to add to that.
181

Lanna,

05/08/2008 15:07:11
#223 Kimba
yeh, pretty much, but I think everyone's waiting to see who the running mates will be for vice pres. then it's really going to hit the fan
182

Lanna,

05/08/2008 15:11:15
#226, Dave
yep a two ringed sideshow with lots of clowns; sad considering the weight of this election

#228 AJ,
now there ya go gettin' me in trouble with my dad's fam with the thought of that...haha, I'll send it via Air straight aways...care for any other Amerique contraband?

183

ThomasP,

05/08/2008 15:12:06
#231

The Tories will add up to four seats at the election.

It not an achievement when the Scottish Nationalists gain far more then the Tories though.
184

Lanna,

05/08/2008 15:14:01
#230 Dave
win or lose, more importantly, who's serving the whisky for the toasts?
185

AJ Fife,

05/08/2008 15:19:27
Lanna#235,

How about a nice parchment copy of the American Declaration of Independence?!

I believe it was based on the Declaration of Arbroath! :)
186

Bzzzz,

Edinburgh 05/08/2008 15:21:46
What exactly would happen were a competitor to celebrate by unveiling a saltire?
There would be no way i could resist that and I hope our representatives in the team can't either.

Scottish not british.

FTU
187

Lanna,

05/08/2008 15:24:01
#238 AJ
I believe it was.
I'll send ya the parchment, but for reading purposes, only ;)

#239 Dave
what? sounds like taxation without representation to me! ;)
188

Dougie Welsh,

Halifax 05/08/2008 15:32:41
The bunch of ye are a' daft!

China's no democracy, and pretendin' it is hurtsmore people than I've had chips!

Greetin' at each other is no way to make Scotland better. Wake up!

Dafties. Ye're a' dafties!
189

AJ Fife,

05/08/2008 15:34:00
Nae lass, the parchment is for above the fireplace! Parchment is far too coorse fur ma bum.

The Union Flag bog roll will do nicely for maintaining the cleanliness of ma bahookie!
190

,

05/08/2008 15:34:37
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191

Lanna,

05/08/2008 15:35:29
#229/ 236 ThomasP
and the wheels go round, and no one wins, or should I say things do not get better. Sorry, I'm not familiar enough with UK politics to debate

#242 Dave
well, I wouldn't know either, Dave :)
192

Yeah1,

05/08/2008 15:35:29
Dave from Barra:

You seem to be under the misapprehension that no one in Scotland votes tory and that they will not win any seats at the next election.

The SNP's own website reports that, based on the latest opinion polls, the tories will get 21% of the vote and 7 seats at the next Westminster election.

Even in 2005, 15.8% of the vote was for the tories and they won 1 seat. Granted they will not win a majority of votes or seats at any point soon but they will get around 20% of the Scottish vote.

I am no fan of the tories myself, but you are clearly deluding yourself by stating "Scotland will never, ever vote tory".
193

Lanna,

05/08/2008 15:37:51
#245 BigKenny,
ya sure that nose isn't brown?
194

Lanna,

05/08/2008 15:43:02
#244 AJ
how 'bout set in a double frame with a copy of the Arbroath Declaration...would be superb! :)
195

Yeah1,

05/08/2008 15:45:07
#249

"Yeah, like I believe ANY opinion poll. The "Opinion Poll" said that Labour would win Glasgow East, right up until they lost it to SNP."

Yes of course no opinion poll is ever 100% accurate, but they do generally offer a fairly good idea of roughly how an election will go, to within a few percentage points or so.

Clearly if the tories are predicted in an opinion poll to get 21% of the vote and 7 seats they are not going to end up with 0% of the vote and no seats.

Your statement that "Scotland will never, ever vote tory" is quite clearly completely incorrect - they got 15.8% of the vote in 2005 for instance and will add to that in 2010, unless you mean the tories will never, ever get a majority of the votes in Scotland, which is more of a possibility.
196

European Scot,

05/08/2008 15:49:10
245 BigKennyMac

Just a few comments.
Scotland is a Nation, not a region..
Scotland happens to be my country of birth.
My passport has European Union written across the top of it.
In Scotland, the title is Queen of Scots, and only the people are 'sovereign'.
We are no one's subject.
As for your last prediction, about as accurate as your other comments !
197

Calum Crubag,

Alba gu brath! 05/08/2008 15:49:20
China in Scottish New Labour collaboration. Shock. Union at all costs. Rule Brittania...
198

Lanna,

05/08/2008 15:49:32
#253 Yeah
opininon polls are acquired to sway the public regardless of the truth. They can be slanted, and are not to be completely trusted. It's politics.
199

Lanna,

05/08/2008 15:51:05
#257 bye Dave, catch ya later! :)
200

Yeah1,

05/08/2008 15:54:33
#254

Right thanks for backing down and admitting that when you said "Scotland will never, ever vote tory" you actually meant "Scotland will never be a tory led country".

Perhaps you should have said that in the first place and no confusion would have been caused. I won't bring it up again.
201

,

05/08/2008 16:00:49
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202

ThomasP,

05/08/2008 16:06:56
#262

If you research the UEFA issue you would notice the Union Jack Flags were sold in England at Manchester and were not all brought down from Scotland. (some may of been0

Which is understandable because I doubt England has a Warehouse full of Saltires incase Scots come down to watch a football match.

Britain was founded by the Countries England and Scotland. You can't argue with History, so you are wrong. Scotland is a country that can choose whether or not we leave the Union.

But carry on. Tell the Scots we are not a country and will never be Independent. Tell us we are British and if we don't like it then tough.

It is people like you that allow the SNP to be so popular because the alternative to the SNP are people like you.
203

kimba,

05/08/2008 16:11:41
232.Pity Obama will not choose Clinton, she has a lot of respect in England.
204

European Scot,

05/08/2008 16:12:07
262 BigKennyMac

" 256 - you remind me of the sad-sack who turned up in manchester for the uefa cup final, clutching a scottish regional flag. The square was a sea of Union Jacks and Red Hand's, and this numpty starts dancing about with his 'saltire' like some eejit from argentina 78. About 200 bears started chanting 'Loser...Loser...' at him. Great laugh."

As a Scot, who like so many others, was absolutely appalled at the behaviour of that element of so called Rangers fans in Manchester, I can only thank you, for so clearly identifying exactly what you are.
205

Media 1,

cape town 05/08/2008 16:12:42
I think a ban on flags is a little tough, but if that is the rules we must respect them.

The athletes wont be bothered at all, they are there to represent Britian and themselves and whether saltires are allowed will be the last thing on their minds. I certainly wouldnt care if I was an athlete!

Its about medals not flags
206

kimba,

05/08/2008 16:13:34
262. LOL, get in!
207

kimba,

05/08/2008 16:15:59
244. YOU RACIST B---ARD, HOPE YOU ROT IN H-LL!
208

kimba,

05/08/2008 16:19:00
AJ.If there is a God in Heaven he will strike you down,you racist gomper.
209

Media 1,

cape town 05/08/2008 16:21:46
kimba

You cannot express yourself in the manner that you did in #268 and expect to hold the moral high ground over a person who may or may not be a racist.
And who defines racist? YOU?
Society?
You cannot be pointing fingers at people whilst behaving in a manner that is more crass than what you are accusing them off.
210

AJ Fife,

05/08/2008 16:24:35
#268,

How is wiping one's bum with Union Flag bog paper in anyway racist?

Apparently the Queen uses nothing else.....
211

European Scot,

05/08/2008 16:25:49
267 Kimba

" 262. LOL, get in!"

Interesting to see you giving support to a group that did such damage to one of your English cities.

268 Kimba

" 244. YOU RACIST B---ARD, HOPE YOU ROT IN H-LL! "

A 'Teaching Assistant' passes comment !
212

AJ Fife,

05/08/2008 16:26:34
Thank you Media 1 for illustrating the obvious faults of Kimbo's post.
213

AJ Fife,

05/08/2008 16:28:10
272,

I certainly wouldn't want to rot in Hull, it's too close to the homeland of the rancid Kimbo! :)
214

European Scot,

05/08/2008 16:32:00
274 AJ Fife

LOL
215

kimba,

05/08/2008 16:37:34
272. Oh how quaint, now let me tell you this, never have i met such a bunch of racist jerks,i have visited scotland on a regular basis for 22 years,and have been treated with respect and kindness,it's about time you took the chip of your shoulder and the bile out of your spleen,you and your bilious cohorts will in the end destroy not only a proud country,but any respect the world community has for her.
216

AJ Fife,

05/08/2008 16:40:43
#276,

Time spent in young offenders institutions doesn't count!
217

AM2,

Scotland,UK 05/08/2008 16:50:50
#178 Jay Kay

Congratulations. You're the recipient of my "CyberNat of the day" award.
218

ThomasP,

05/08/2008 16:52:43
#276

I find it hard to accept that you have ever visted Scotland.

If you have travelled to Scotland and were treated with kindness and respect then surely you can return the favour by not making insulting claims that Britain will invade Scotland and forever keep us in the Union...
219

Yeah1,

05/08/2008 16:59:17
#279

"surely you can return the favour by not making insulting claims that Britain will invade Scotland and forever keep us in the Union..."

Those claims are not insulting they are just ludicrous.

Clearly if Scotland votes for independence in a referendum it will be allowed to have independence, Cameron is not going to invade Scotland to stop it declaring independence. Kimba is just talking complete nonsense to try and wind up the nationalists.
220

Jacqueline Hyde ,

On the shelf 05/08/2008 17:04:46
The Saltire was also forbidden at previous Olympic and Winter Olympic Games and the stewards even "confiscated" them at Salt Lake City! Surely it is no more than a sign of ignorance in the IOC and its officials rather than a slight against our country.

Anyway, BBC News 24 does far worse on an hourly basis every day.
221

,

05/08/2008 17:06:27
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222

European Scot,

05/08/2008 17:07:17
276 Kimba

" ... i have visited scotland on a regular basis for 22 years,and have been treated with respect and kindness,it's about time you took the chip of your shoulder and the bile out of your spleen,you and your bilious cohorts will in the end destroy not only a proud country,but any respect the world community has for her."

What a pity you couldn't return some of that respect and kindness to Scotland, instead of coming on to sites like this, constantly running it down, and often quite arrogantly telling it what it should, or should not be doing.
Personally I have always believed in treating others as they treat you.
Is it any wonder that you receive the type of comments that you do.
As for chips, the only ones around here are in the computer.
Bile, I'm afraid, is your problem, for someone so young you have far too much of it.
A simple comment, Scotland has the same right to be Independent as any other country in this World.
Those of us who support that, would not destroy it, or cause it any harm.
Your anger, your extreme language is aimed at an image, at a stereotype, that only exists in your own imagination.
223

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 05/08/2008 17:32:29
To sum up this thread and put an end to it: Scotland is not an independaent country yet, just a glorified shire county within Great Britain so no flag should be flown except the Union Jack. Like it or lump it, it's a fact.
224

Andrew Allan,

05/08/2008 17:40:56
#276.,kimba,
‘Oh how quaint, now let me tell you this, never have i met such a bunch of racist jerks,i have visited scotland on a regular basis for 22 years,and have been treated with respect and kindness,it's about time you took the chip of your shoulder and the bile out of your spleen,you and your bilious cohorts will in the end destroy not only a proud country,but any respect the world community has for her.’

Yes well kimba, technically speaking you still haven’t met those bunch of racist jerks, cyber space may have its own reality, but the lack of sustainable proof of what you are experiencing is unfortunately lacking.
225

,

05/08/2008 17:52:56
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226

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 05/08/2008 17:55:53
While they are at it, English, Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish football and rugby teams should be abolished as well. Just the one UK team until things change.
227

sheri,

usa 05/08/2008 18:29:08
that is why i and a few others are not watching any of the chinese olympics.
228

Climate change is a fraud,

05/08/2008 18:30:18
Censoring the Internet: A Collection of Essential Links

Major International Transport Hub Censors Political Websites

Paul Joseph Watson
While media accuses China of blacklisting sensitive information, censorship is taking place right here at home.

http://www.infowars.com/?p=3730
229

WL,

livingston 05/08/2008 19:13:59
The whole Olympic Games this year is only to glorify the chinese communist party, but the Olympic committee is too stupid to see that.
I am not interested in these games and hope no one else wants to support the chinese communist party by watching the games.
If they only want the flags of the the participating countries the olympic flag should also be banned. The olympic committee is so stupid!!!!!
230

,

05/08/2008 19:26:31
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231

An Greumach Mor,

Scotland 05/08/2008 19:50:28
I am a devout supporter of Scottish Independence.

I do not care if we are only allowed the Union Flag at Olympic Games. We are competing as a collective of nations who are represented by that flag.

It is a British Team and therefore a British Flag.

When we are independent we can wave our own flag.

232

,

05/08/2008 20:37:46
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233

Eve,

Scotland 05/08/2008 20:38:43
Terrible new, that is!

I won't be watching the olylmpic cause I cannae be bovered with this bizare behaiour. It seem pontless when you have no team to suport.

I'd rather have a go at trying the sports than watching them. Even if I was increable rubbish at it.
234

,

05/08/2008 20:47:02
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,

05/08/2008 21:01:57
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Iainbroch,

Moray 05/08/2008 21:22:37
More competitors caught drug taking - at this rate there wont be any left to carry any flags at the opening ceremony?
237

,

05/08/2008 22:29:33
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,

05/08/2008 22:29:38
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,

05/08/2008 22:29:45
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240

,

05/08/2008 22:29:54
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,

05/08/2008 22:30:03
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,

05/08/2008 22:30:11
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,

05/08/2008 22:30:20
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05/08/2008 22:30:51
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Daveunderwater,

06/08/2008 00:21:51
# 121

Only if Westsinister allows us to vote on it?

BTW
the last referndum held on Independence the majority of people were for independence, Westsinister bent the rules and plead that not enough people turned out.

Interesting times ahead

BRING IT ON
246

Daveunderwater,

06/08/2008 00:23:09
313-320

Spam spam spam spam

Boring repetitive unionist negativity
247

MichScot,

USA 06/08/2008 05:13:41
My son is on his way back to China, where he has lived for a few years. He says the Chinese are proud about hosting the Olympics and that people are freer than they were and it will take time to catch up. Eight or ten years is not enough time to reshape a totalitarian government, but the improvements have begun and the things the people will learn through exposure to the visitors will help to open their eyes.
248

Tris,

06/08/2008 16:16:58

The whole Olympic thing has become a joke.

Not about sport; about who is big enough, powerful enough and rich enough to put on the lavish spectacular that is expected.

And about politics.

Sickening. It should go. I hope we never host it.

Doubtless the English Olympics in 2012 (or possibly 2013) which Scotland is having to help pay for, will almost undoubtedly be a complete disaster.

The Tories left Labour the embarrassment of the dome, and Labour will leave the Tories the Olympics. Makes ya laff.
249

Stewart MacKay,

Edinburgh 06/08/2008 23:12:57
if no flag, why not paint our faces...? or wear Scotland top...? or a kilt? or tartan trousers? or play thr bag-pipes? or the fiddle? and sing Scottish songs?? Why get so worked up about a flag? Be creative. The flag issue is a bit of a farce. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Yawn...

 

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