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Chris Hoy: Scottish team in Olympics would be 'ridiculous'

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Published Date: 25 August 2008
ALEX Salmond's hopes of creating a Scottish Olympic team suffered a major setback yesterday when the triple gold medallist Chris Hoy derided the plan as "ridiculous".
The Edinburgh cyclist, who carried the flag for Team GB at the closing ceremony in Beijing, reacted angrily to remarks from Stewart Maxwell, the sports minister, who said "a Scottish team at the Olympics is the future". Scotland's greatest-ever Olympian said he wouldn't have "three gold medals hanging round my neck" if he had not been part of Team GB.

Hoy's comments came amid another row over the idea of a British football team taking part in the 2012 London Games. Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, said he supported the concept, but it is bitterly opposed by the SNP government in Edinburgh and the Scottish Football Association.

The intervention of someone of Hoy's standing in the debate about Scotland's future in the Olympics is a serious blow to Mr Salmond's drive to create a separate Scottish team.

Last week, the First Minister's spokesman said a Scottish team would allow more Scots to compete at the highest level.

Yesterday, Mr Maxwell said: "Look at Jamaica, a small island nation. They won gold, silver and bronze in the women's sprint, they've got world records, they've won the men's, the women's 100 and 200 metres and the relay. This is an exceptionally brilliant nation – at the same time a small nation.

"Scotland can compete on the world stage – we proved that in the Olympics – and a Scottish team at the Olympics is the future."

Asked what he would say to those who would rather see Scotland's athletes play a big role in Team GB, he said: "What I would say to them is, do Irish athletes want to rejoin the UK and be part of the UK team? Do we want to get rid of the GB team and have a European team because a European team would sweep the board? You have to think about whether or not it's appropriate in the level you represent your own country in. I think it's quite right you represent your own country."

When he asked about those comments in Beijing yesterday, Hoy said: "Before anything like that could be discussed, he'd have to look at the facilities and resources in Scotland. At the moment, we don't have an international facility for cycling. We don't have the coaching or anything else in place.

"For him to call for a Scottish Olympic team at this stage is ridiculous. I wouldn't have three gold medals hanging round my neck if I wasn't part of the British team. I'm a Scottish athlete in a British team, and I'm proud to be a British athlete.

"The government would have to invest serious money in sport before they could start thinking of having their own team in the Olympics."

Hoy is based in Manchester, home of the National Cycling Centre, which has one of only two indoor velodromes in the UK. He is part of a British team funded to the tune of £5.5 million a year. As he pointed out, he also won one of his gold medals as part of a team, together with Englishmen Jamie Staff and Jason Kenny.

He said: "There's nothing I love more than going home to Edinburgh, but I haven't lived in Scotland for nine years. There just aren't the facilities to train there – if there were, then I would live there. But like Craig MacLean and Ross Edgar – who are the other Scottish cyclists on the British team – I have to be based in Manchester."

Simon Clegg, chief executive of the British Olympic Association, attacked Mr Maxwell for raising the issue of a Scottish team again. "This is nothing to do with sport, everything to do with politics," he said. "Only independent nations, as recognised by the international community, can have national Olympic committee status bestowed on them."

He pointed out Scotland would actually have lost two medals – Hoy's from the team sprint and Katherine Grainger's team rowing one – had the country been on its own, because those athletes would not have been competing with their British colleagues.

Frank McAveety, Scottish Labour's sports spokesman, also condemned Mr Maxwell's remarks. He said: "I'm absolutely passionate about Scotland and I want Scotland to do well, but I'm also exceptionally proud of Team GB's performance in the Olympics. I don't see why I should be asked to make a choice between those two."

Hoy's father, David, has spoken out against Scotland going it alone,

and Sir Craig Reedie, the Scot who used to chair the British Olympic Association, said: "Why would Chris Hoy want to leave the best cycling team in the world?"

The proposal has already received a lukewarm response from Scotland's sporting community. A Performance Sports Summit, chaired by Mr Maxwell in Stirling last August, included the Olympic proposal as item two on the agenda. With many of Scotland's sporting governing bodies present, the item received – according to one delegate – "short shrift".

Meadowbank's velodrome, where Hoy learned the skills he used to such devastating effect in Beijing, is still in operation, but is described as being "badly out of date" and is earmarked for demolition. Scotland's only other velodrome, in Dundee, is in an even worse state.

Marco Librizzi, a former team-mate of Hoy, has said that getting rid of the Meadowbank velodrome before a new one opens in Glasgow would kill the chances of having any Scottish cyclists at the Commonwealth Games in 2014. In the light of Hoy's Beijing success, Mr Salmond said Holyrood would look again at the case for improved cycling facilities.

Cycling is not the only sport to suffer from limited facilities in Scotland. Swimming also suffers at elite level due to a lack of dedicated 50-metre pools.

Fun, fun, fun is the theme for 2012 as Boris declares 'sport is coming home'

LONDON will build on the success of Beijing to host "the best Olympic Games ever", Gordon Brown promised yesterday, as the reins of the world's greatest sporting event were officially handed over to the capital.

The Prime Minister said the medal haul of Britain's athletes, who will arrive home today on a special BA Boeing 747 with a "golden" nose, has "captured the imagination of our country".

And in a resolute defence of a united British team, he added: "We can say with one patriot voice, it is a great time to be British."

Speaking at London House in Beijing alongside Mr Brown, Boris Johnson, the mayor of London, made clear that Britain had given the world a great many of the Olympic sports, even pointing out to his Chinese hosts that "ping-pong" has its roots in Victorian England, where it emerged as an after-dinner amusement.

Back in London, thousands of revellers gathered outside Buckingham Palace as part of the celebrations marking the handover of the Olympics from Beijing to London.

As the closing ceremony began in China, a flag-waving crowd some 40,000 strong thronged into the Mall ahead of performances by acts including McFly, Will Young, Katherine Jenkins and the cast of the Queen musical We Will Rock You.

Olympians including Michael Phelps, British medal heroes Bradley Wiggins and Phillips Idowu, and former stars Sharron Davies, Sally Gunnell and Roger Black took part in the event.

Big screens linked up to the ceremony in Beijing where London staged an eight-minute, £2.5 million performance to mark the hand over.

As Jimmy Page, Leona Lewis, and David Beckham took centre stage in Beijing, the organisers of 2012 suggested their aim was to hold a fun Games.

Mr Johnson, who received the Olympic flag, said at the ceremony: "We will draw on our wit, flair, imagination and ingenuity to build on what we've all witnessed in Beijing and deliver a fantabulous Olympics in what I consider to be not only my home, but the home of sport. Sport is coming home."

Wiggins, who won two golds in Beijing, said: "When I left (Britain] it was all 'recession, recession, recession' and we've come back to a country overwhelmed by Olympic success."

Scotland's biggest city joined in the celebrations, as about 2,000 people gathered to watch the handover broadcast live on a giant screen in Glasgow's George Square and see the 2012 flag raised over the City Chambers.

Glasgow, which is hosting the 2014 Commonwealth Games, will be the venue for some football matches at the 2012 Games and is an official Olympic City.

In London, hundreds of people were shut out of the event, despite having tickets.

Mari Hamilton, from Aylesbury, said: "If they can't fit 40,000 people in why did they issue that many tickets?"

There were also technical problems with some of the big screens, meaning the picture was lost for parts of the closing ceremony in Beijing.

In Cumbria, legendary mountaineer Sir Chris Bonnington scaled England's highest mountain, Scafell Pike to unfurl one of the London 2012 flags.

Brown wants all-Britain football team with Sir Alex at the helm

MANCHESTER United boss Sir Alex Ferguson has been approached to manage an all-Britain football team at the 2012 Olympics in London, Gordon Brown said last night, a move which some argue threatens the future of the Scottish national side.

The Prime Minister is determined to see a British team in both the men's and the women's football tournaments when the Games come to the UK. But Scotland's First Minister, Alex Salmond, yesterday attacked Mr Brown's support for a single side.

He said: "This is not a popular idea. Not only do all the national supporters' associations oppose this, but the majority of football associations in the UK have said they do not want to take part in a single UK team."

Cathy Jamieson, one of the Scottish Labour leadership candidates, also said it would be wrong to gamble with the future of the country's football for the sake of a single British Olympic team.

Ms Jamieson said: "Scotland has a long international footballing tradition and I would not do anything to jeopardise that. Team GB should include a football team, but not at the expense of Scotland's football team. It would be wrong to gamble with the identity of Scotland's football team."

Previously, Britain has been prevented from entering because the four home countries compete separately in other international matches.

Mr Brown has been holding talks with Fifa president Sepp Blatter in an attempt to ensure that the right of the autonomy of the home nations is protected if there is a British Olympic team.

Mr Brown said: "We will see who wants to be part of this and then we will get a manager that everybody will be happy with. And I know Alex Ferguson has been approached by Seb Coe, and I have spoken to him about it."

He said the veteran manager had yet to be formally approached for the job and it was "up to him to decide".

Mr Brown said he hoped the lure of a final in London would encourage the individual football associations to overcome their reservations about entering a joint Olympic side.

GAVIN CORDON

The full article contains 1874 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 24 August 2008 11:09 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Chris Hoy , 2008 Olympics
 
1

subrosa,

25/08/2008 00:12:13
Another 'ye cannae dae that' article. Pity so many Scots people connected with sport can't see things in a more positive light. My interpretation is that Alex Salmond wants Scotland to have a team because it would encourage more top class sports men and women. What's wrong with that?
2

Coileach an taobh Tuath,

25/08/2008 00:14:40
".....I haven't lived in Scotland for nine years. There just aren't the facilities to train there – if there were, then I would live there....."

A damming indication of the last executive and the so-called elite training offered by Sports Scotland......

3

Macd123,

25/08/2008 00:16:20
I support the SNP, but would far rather they came up with a strategy to improve PE in schools and rebuild our facilities, instead of this kind of thing.

4

druidh,

edinburgh 25/08/2008 00:16:40
When Scotland becomes independent, there'll be no choice!
5

Coileach an taobh Tuath,

25/08/2008 00:17:35


The North Britishman's cringe get's more acute by the day.


6

,

25/08/2008 00:17:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
7

Conan the Librarian™,

25/08/2008 00:18:16
Hmm. This is the Scotsman.

What did he actually say?
8

Coileach an taobh Tuath,

25/08/2008 00:18:16
4 Macd123, 25/08/2008 00:16:20

I would tend to agree Macd, less talk more action.

Let's just get on with it.



9

monkey man,

25/08/2008 00:27:25
Well said, Chris.! The wee Bravehearts will now be choking on their stovies. lol Scotland is only a minor region of the nation, North Britain, so get over any mad ideas of entering the Olympics.
10

,

25/08/2008 00:27:48
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
11

,

25/08/2008 00:28:57
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
12

Conan the Librarian™,

25/08/2008 00:30:11
14
I know. Try posting the U.
13

,

25/08/2008 00:30:47
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
14

FrancesP,

25/08/2008 00:30:57
"Simon Clegg, chief executive of the British Olympic Association, attacked Mr Maxwell for raising the issue of a Scottish team again. 'This is nothing to do with sport, everything to do with politics,' he said. 'Only independent nations, as recognised by the international community, can have national Olympic committee status bestowed on them.' "

Perhaps Mr Clegg could explain why the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region of China has just taken part in the Olympics? Not to mention Taiwan, the US Virgin Islands, the British Virgin Islands, the Dutch Antilles and countless others. And, Mr Clegg, I can hardly think of anything more 'political' than a jumped-up sports administrator intervening on one side of a debate between two governments. Let me get this straight - the Scottish Government's desire for an Olympic team is 'political', but Gordon Brown's desire for a GB football team is all about 'the best interests of the athletes'? He must think people in Scotland were born yesterday. Clegg and Reedie's British nationalist political agenda is so blatant I'm almost embarrassed for them.
15

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 25/08/2008 00:36:16
So the propaganda begins!

Pity we hadn't been able to keep Scotlands good causes Lotto money, we might have been able put some of it towards sports faciities.
16

Conan the Librarian™,

25/08/2008 00:38:10
19
Shall I spell it out for you?

I want a Scots Republic.

Thats it.
17

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 00:38:23


Chris Hoy spoke the truth!, like it or lump it!

If we stop accepting the, 'Madhouse' some are trying and succeeding to make Scotland as it is becoming, then and only then, we may have a viable Scottish Olympic team.
18

Conan the Librarian™,

25/08/2008 00:40:55
20
Hey ochone, how have you been?
19

Traquir , Alba,

25/08/2008 00:46:51
Of the 191 countries competing in the Beijing
Olympics (see - tinyurl.com/6n9g5j )
almost half are around the size of Scotland
or much less (see - tinyurl.com/5kg7jb ).
Also interestingly most of these "small countries"
(and fact some are not even recognized as countries)
are poorer than Scotland but manage to finance
and have pride in their own country competing
under their own flag and anthem.

Going by Chris Hoy's comments we should end
up with some elitist organization where
only the biggest and supposedly the best
compete. Doesn't quite sound to be in the Olympic
spirit at all where the honor should be to compete
for ones own country rather than winning being
the end all. With Scotland having her own
Olympic team many more Scots would have the
opportunity to compete and represent Scotland
under our own flag and our own anthem.

Having a situation where few of our sportsmen
get the opportunity to represent their
own country and those that do have to live & train
in England the situation is simply disgraceful.
Naturally the £14 billion "investment"
in the London Olympics will buy a few more
gold medals, but at what cost to Scotland ?

see - tinyurl.com/6p43bv


20

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 25/08/2008 00:49:50
Chris is only stating the obvious. Scotland has been shortchanged royally for being part of the enforced English "union" over the decades.
Forget a velodrome, Scotland doesn't even have a nartional football stadium. Or a quality indoor arena. (The new Glasgow facility is a joke and the two Murrayfields are dumps by modern standards.)
Hoy's comments, as usual, have been torqued out of context.
The key quote is: "there's nothing I love more than going back to Scotland."
Many of the Jamacian runners are US-based too.
If Scotland had control of our natural resource revenues we could build some fine legacy facilities to celebrate our national identity and purpose.
But when London is calling the shots and there's a traitor like Broon temporarily in charge, I can feel Chris Hoy's pain.
And it won't go away until Scotland becomes a nation again.
21

Fifi la Bonbon,

25/08/2008 00:50:22
This memo was inadvertently dropped by a young cadre and passed to unreliable elements in the traitorous British media -

...The leadership is deeply disappointed at the unpatriotic attitudes shown by these rootless cosmopolitans, many of who have been living inside enemy territory and fraternising with unreliable elements. Clearly these young deviant athletes need to be instilled with the proper tenets of Salmondist-Sturgeonist thought. Incorrect ideas must be purged from their minds and replaced with Caledoniacally approved principles and ideas. Camps must be established in the Highlands, staffed with the best programmers money can buy. Perhaps Comrade Osama Saeed can suggest suitable individuals, using his apparently wide contacts in the Muslim Brotherhood and the various Hizbollahs throughout the world. The families of the individuals concerned can also be enlisted to assist them to reach the correct conclusions, with accommodation at the planned "Braveheart" work-experience camps....
22

Conan the Librarian™,

25/08/2008 00:52:29
22
Charles.

Er...what were you trying to say?
23

Resolutions,

25/08/2008 00:52:30
Usual hysterical reaction to hysterical headline - anything to knock a country down.

Was it really wise to ask this question before the team get home and see for themselves.

Scotland could have superb training facilities for all the population if we had control of our own cash.

Under this no wee country should be there at all - how eletist is that? And many athletes train in other countries, but still represent their own at big events.
24

Jock MacSprog,

25/08/2008 00:54:36
well done Chris ! you have shown you are a true man of quality by not letting yourself and your accomplishments be used by fat Nat politicians for their own deluded purposes.
25

Conan the Librarian™,

25/08/2008 00:55:37
27
I had an art teacher like that.
Mam'selle Titsaud where are you now...
26

Willie Macleod,

Wick 25/08/2008 00:55:55
#21 Morning Conan

Back online yesterday having had computer problems.
New power unit and main circuit board replaced.

Your support for Public Sector workers and unions against the attacks made by Soup Kitchen and others was much appreciated by me and I am sure others
27

JG,

Fife 25/08/2008 00:58:51
So where we would get the money to provide quality velodromes, swimming pools, top quality athletics tracks etc. and all of the equipment? Not to mention paying for all of the class trainers, physios and support staff. The point is; WE CAN'T AFFORD IT!!

While Jamaica did do extremely well in the athletics, that was where they won ALL of their medals.
28

Conan the Librarian™,

25/08/2008 01:00:32
34
Thank you Willie.

How are you?
29

Lianachan,

Highlands 25/08/2008 01:01:21
Hmm - a GB football team is "bitterly opposed by the SNP government in Edinburgh and the Scottish Football Association", the Scotsman quite correctly reports.

"as well as practically the entire population of Scotland" is something they neglected to add.
30

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 25/08/2008 01:01:21
#36

It's the oil, stupid.
31

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 01:03:01

Conan the Librarian ~30,

Scotland has not a chance in hell of an Olympic Team, Chris Hoy spoke the utter truth!

Our Heads are too full of nonsense, to have any product, team, etc, to be produced or developed in Scotland.

We are more interested in producing, 'litter wardens' and the likes, we live in what is becoming a 'loony bin'.

The only team we can put forward if we don't watch out is the,...

...'Laughing Stock' of the World!
32

JG,

Fife 25/08/2008 01:03:14
#39 Neil
No, we're not going to GET money from the oil, stupid!!
33

somerferg,

perth 25/08/2008 01:05:53
Well who would have thought the Hootsman could come up with a headline like this??
34

Conan the Librarian™,

25/08/2008 01:07:50
40
That would be nice, but the English would not even look at it.

Yet.
35

somerferg,

perth 25/08/2008 01:08:36

Oh and #41 - the only laughing stock we are in any danger of becoming is if other small independent nations read your comments unless of course they were said with your tongue firmly in your cheek? Very difficult to tell with your comments because they are always so 'other worldly'.
36

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 25/08/2008 01:08:37
#42

Clearly we won't get the money with a lay-down-and-dream-of-England attitude like yours.
Here's the simple Scotsmath:

Independence=North Sea oil revenues=sports and cultural facilities coming out of Scotland's ying yang.

Glad to be of service.

37

A Better Way,

Scottish Republic 25/08/2008 01:11:17
No need for any other comments on this subject is there.

Probably three negative anti Scottish views by Unionists and forty Scottish Patriots standing up for THEIR NATION.

Let the Unionist losers get on with their ANTI SCOTTISH RANTS. We know we are as good as anyone else in the world. The Unionist Media prove it everyday.
38

JG,

Fife 25/08/2008 01:12:15
#46 Neil
I'm not 'dreaming of England', I'm telling the reality. I'm every bit as Scottish as YOU are but my head isn't full of romantic nonsense!
39

Conan the Librarian™,

25/08/2008 01:14:09
41
Charles.
Scotland does not have a chance of an Olympic team?

Ah.

Like Ireland or Jamaica then?
40

Willie Macleod,

Wick 25/08/2008 01:14:54
#37 Conan Things are just fine thanks Conan.

Having a glass of Whisky and catching up with things on here.

No Computer for ten days I could not believe how much I missed not having it.
41

JG,

Fife 25/08/2008 01:20:58
#54 Col. BlimpV
God, I'm sick of saying this - I'M NOT AN 'IST' OF ANY KIND. I DON'T LIKE ANY POLITICIANS. I DON'T BELIEVE WHAT THEY SAY - INCLUDING SALMOND.

There would also be a good reason why I wouldn't have balls under my 'kilt'.
42

Nevsky,

Moscow 25/08/2008 01:23:57
41:

Seem to put out a decent footie and rugby team. Seem to remember little Scotland doing quite well at the commonwealth games in swimming..unionist cringe again.

Seems that every country competes to compete..have not heard the New Zealanders complian. No-one laughs at medals tables!
43

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 25/08/2008 01:24:46
#50

You get a gilt edged opportunity to flash your Scottishness in the Fife by-election by voting SNP. You are voting.

#54
Easy on my kilt Colonel. Unfortunately it shrank a little hanging in the closet. Darn I hate when that happens.
Nothing worn under it, though, I'm happy to report all still in good working order.
44

Nevsky,

Moscow 25/08/2008 01:25:24
Hoy is what he is a great cyclist...not a politicial so stick at the cycling. Notice he did say that if money was invested then it could be looked at.

Scots have to train in England as there are no facilities in Scotland..disgracefully!
45

troonjambo,

Troon of course 25/08/2008 01:28:00
Well, well, well!

The word "ridiculous" is the ONLY part of the headline which is a quote from Mr Hoy. How sad that so many of the Scotsman's readers would automatically assume, just because the Scotsman's headline implies so, that Chris Hoy actually said that the idea is ridiculous. If you bother to read the article you will find that he said that it would be "ridiculous" to call for a Scottish team "at this stage".

The Scotsman newspaper's employees wouldn't have the balls to ask him what his opinion would be in the event that Scotland actually did have suitable facilities for him to train at. They might not like the idea of having to print his answer if it didn't suit their purpose!

It's not the "Nationalists" politics we need to be concerned about - it's the media's (not only the Scotsman's, by the way) aims and politics we need to be wary of.
46

JG,

Fife 25/08/2008 01:28:10
#58 Neil
Being Scottish doesn't mean I would have to vote SNP. The by-election isn't in my bit of Fife!
47

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 01:31:53

Col. Blimp­IV* ~49,

No other Country has become like ours, in the one hand, pretending not to be oppressor's, and in the other hand, destroying its very roots, so your question is invalid.

JG ~50,

Agree! "romantic nonsense" it is!

Any wealth we have in Scotland, is spent on utter nonsense, ones that are burying Scotland, into its grave of, one of stupitity.
48

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 25/08/2008 01:32:45
#61

So you're temporararily off the hook, then.
You can run but you can't hide. Eventually there will be a general election.
49

Willie Macleod,

Wick 25/08/2008 01:35:17
#57 Anton Four in a row Conan, Willie, Blimp and Ford

Please tell us why you think that is fabulous?
50

JG,

Fife 25/08/2008 01:36:17
#64 Neil
What am I running and hiding from? I like to see what's on offer and make up my own mind. Anyway (back on topic) what does Salmond know about sport - unless it's the national pie eating championships!
51

Conan the Librarian™,

25/08/2008 01:40:28
57
I'm glad you enjoyed it.

What next?
52

Robbie 2,

New Zealand 25/08/2008 01:40:40
7 Charles Linskaill,
'Of Course', a "Scottish team in Olympics would be 'ridiculous'!"
Quite right Charles - small nations with populations under six million, like New Zealand (9 medals - three gold) Norway (10 medals - three gold) Jamaica (11 medals - six gold) Slovakia (6 medals - three gold) are ridiculous aspiring to compete with the big rich countries. They should send their potential medal hopes away to increase their tally and position on the medal table - which is what the Olympics is all about (Unlike the rest of the World in the US they head the table with highest medal count).
The thrill that the smaller nations get Charles doing it themselves (and of course making a per population table is as great if not greater than being part of a larger entity in which it’s identity is lost.
53

TommyKaye,

UK 25/08/2008 01:41:27
Hi Chris hope you sang this verse of the national anthem-

Lord grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the Queen!

Rebellious Scots oh dar not very pc is it however thats you Chris by the way.
54

John Muir,

Botany Bay 25/08/2008 01:41:39
I’ve got an idea that will address the chronic lack of sports facilities in Scotland.

Let’s start a British national lottery, with the idea to invest the funds raised back into the communities that paid for the tickets. It could be used to build sports facilities all over Scotland, so that we can build all the velodromes and stadiums we need to train Scottish athletes, without sending them south to find better facilities.

What’s that? It’s already been done?

And our portion of the funds was stolen for the London Olympics?

What the….?


55

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 25/08/2008 01:41:40
#66

I see Lex more a fish supper man myself "(extra sauce, please")
Soon or later you will have to decide if your are Scottish or that bastardizied and contrived concept caled "British". A cynical term designed to rob Scotland of it's natural resources and corrupt our culture and national heritage,
56

Conan the Librarian™,

25/08/2008 01:42:33
65
Beat me to it Willie.
57

Robbie 2,

25/08/2008 01:43:27
41 Charles Linskaill,
The only team we can put forward if we don't watch out is the,......'Laughing Stock' of the World!
Problem there Charles is the World is rather unsure of Scotland an looks as the British team as simply England. They can’t laugh at something they’re unaware of/
Even here in NZ with a large Scottish ethnic base - Britain is England and the Union Flag considered the English flag.
It’s not a subject that I would bother arguing about with the likes of Gordon Brown but it is a fact.
A Scottish team would give more chance and an obtainable goal for more young Scottish athletes. It is not just about winning but participating.
#66JG,Fife
what does Salmond know about sport - unless it's the national pie eating championships!
What does Chris Hoy know of politics? Maybe a lot but why do Scottish papers always seem to quote political sports people or actors political views (which of course they have the right to have). They’re entertainers not political pundits.
58

TommyKaye,

UK 25/08/2008 01:46:34
Alan Wells won a 100 metre gold medal and a 200 metre silver while still employed at Brown Brothers as an engineer or something like that he never complained just got on with it.

59

Willie Macleod,

Wick 25/08/2008 01:47:11
#72 Conan I think Anton is Ford
60

Conan the Librarian™,

25/08/2008 01:49:59
76
Willie, got work tomorrow.Goodnight.
61

JG,

Fife 25/08/2008 01:51:06
#71 Neil
Whether or not I agree with the SNP doesn't make me any less Scottish than you are. I suppose at least you haven't started threatening me yet, because I might disagree with the gospel according to the SNP manifesto as some other of your cohorts have (and I actually haven't declared an affinity to ANY party because I haven't got one!!).
62

Willie Macleod,

Wick 25/08/2008 01:53:09
#78 Cheers Conan catch up with you later
63

JG,

Fife 25/08/2008 01:55:46
#77 Col. BlimpV
I know I'm not inferior!! And I'm not brainwashed at all. I'm quite capable of reading things and making up my own mind. Are you sure it isn't YOU who has been brainwashed
64

macdonaj,

Aberdeen Scotland 25/08/2008 02:02:09
Here we go again "bought and sold for English gold ''olympic ''.
It is not just a matter of winning gold it is the honour of representing your country that counts. Perhaps some Scots would rather represent the highest
bidder.Scotland should move on without those so inclined.






65

hotstud,

london 25/08/2008 02:11:12
I suppose it could work. Might make for a more colourful Games. We could have Team Galicia from Spain, Team Bavaria from Germany, Team California from USA (beach volleyball gold would be assured) Team Lombardy from Italy, Team Saskatchewan from Canada (if that would fit on a vest), and of course all the 56 ethnic groups of China (in the interests of fairness). Yeah, I like it.
66

hotstud,

london 25/08/2008 02:25:29
Californians for Independence! That volleyball gold is ours! OURS!!! Simply enter the text 'Californians for Independence' into your web browser to find out more about us. Please... help in any way that you can. Thank You!
67

Canadian Jambo,

25/08/2008 02:36:06
An honest question- how many Scottish athletes (other than Hoy) won medals?
68

John Muir,

Botany Bay 25/08/2008 02:38:57
Totally agree, Robbie 2.

"Britain is England and the Union Flag considered the English flag."

Tired of explaining to foreigners what the flag really means and who we are. Looking forward to the day I won't have to any more.

Can't wait to see a Scottish flag at the Olympics and the UN.
69

John Muir,

Botany Bay 25/08/2008 02:42:18
How much did the British Government swipe from Scotland's lottery money for the Olympics again?

£150 million, wasn’t it?

How many velodromes would that build?
70

Guga II,

Rockall 25/08/2008 02:48:26
The trouble with all these professional athletes is that it is all about money, not national pride.

Obviously some of them think that they wont get on the money train if they compete as a Scottish team, and they'd rather sell their own country down the river for the sake of cold, hard cash.

A Scottish team may not win many medals, at first, but the athletes would have the pride of competing for their own country, not for the colonial power.

There are still too many people in Scotland that are bought and sold for English gold, sic a parcel of rogues in a nation.
71

Willie Macleod,

Wick 25/08/2008 02:50:12
#88 Col. I hope you tidy up my desk sorry I left in such a state.

Can you believe what Anton thinks we are all in the employ of The Scotsman What is going on in his head?

"Never Wrestle With A Chimney Sweep"

Willie
72

Saltire,

Thailand 25/08/2008 02:50:24
Of course there should be a team representing Britain in football at the London Olympics.
But the emphasis is on "a team representing Britain" and that can be achieved by having a Home Nations type championship where the winner represents GB.
That way we maintain our national football integrity while still having a representative to cheer on at the Olympics
73

Jam Tarts 1874,

On the Rebound 25/08/2008 03:16:21
#95. Well, not quite. The current legislation on the Olympic football tournament requires an under-23 side with one or two over-age players allowed. It is therefore not neccessary for competition, all the home nations have talented young players from which a good team could be derived.

However, the spectre of political pressure from those who (probably quite rightly) don't see why the UK should have 4 teams in the qualifying for the World Cup and European Championships means that it is not worth the risk to the SFA. If the English FA takes a different view and allows it's players to be in "GB Olympic" for 2012, then good luck to them.
74

Team Scotland,

25/08/2008 03:20:26
People who benefit from a particular structure will tend to support it irrespective of the wider picture. If you are on top of the dunghill the last thing you want to see is a farmer with a shovel in his hand. Hoy’s reaction should not be a surprise. He is an athlete not a politician and is not media savvy. He is quite correct about the current facilities and coaching and this would have to be addressed as would the current integration of many Olympic sports at UK/GB level. I can understand the SNP raising the issue but they must realise that a lot of work would have to be done to make this feasible.

Chris Hoy has done extremely well in winning three gold medals, as have the other Scottish athletes but taken as a whole Scotland’s medallists were few in number. If this is a union dividend, it is in the grand scheme of things, loose change. The SNP will have to make a case that a ‘Team Scotland’ could provide as many or more medallists than the average haul over the last few Olympics. This will require a commitment to providing the facilities and level of coaching that would give reasonable hope of a return in terms of Olympic success.

Scotland is a small country and could not spread resources too thinly. There would be no point in spending a lot of money in an area based on the performance of one athlete who has mainly trained out of the country. Resources need to be targeted, from the grass roots up, in sports where there were enough participants and a reasonable expectation of a return.

Athletes who showed promise in minority sports would as now generaly train outwith Scotland. The Scottish Government needs to develop symbiotic relationships with other countries. Scotland for example produces some good boxers in spite of a low participation rate in the sport. Boxing is the third or fourth most popular sport in Ireland and gets much more funding than in Scotland. It may be cheaper to send Scotland’s promising boxers to Ireland in exchange for taking on
75

Team Scotland,

25/08/2008 03:21:03
. . . cont

Athletes who showed promise in minority sports would as now generaly train outwith Scotland. The Scottish Government needs to develop symbiotic relationships with other countries. Scotland for example produces some good boxers in spite of a low participation rate in the sport. Boxing is the third or fourth most popular sport in Ireland and gets much more funding than in Scotland. It may be cheaper to send Scotland’s promising boxers to Ireland in exchange for taking on some of there athletes in an area where perhaps by this time we excel. Whatever the solution it will take time and the threat to Scottish Football team is more pressing.
76

Thomas1,

25/08/2008 03:33:22
Beter start making preparations for the G.B.football team and at the same time preparations for G.Browns exit,he's winding you all up,suckers.
77

Kipling,

25/08/2008 03:33:58
#41,63 Charles.

How's the REPRODUCTIVE CYCLE going Charles?! It's the first time I haven't seen the DYW mentioned. Have you created your little home-made OLYMPIC TEAM yet? Looking forward to hear about the Linskaill golds in the 2028 Olympics.
78

,

25/08/2008 04:15:52
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79

,

25/08/2008 04:21:17
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80

Willie Macleod,

Wick 25/08/2008 04:22:25
Anton I am off to my bed in Wick I do not work or put forward any views apart from my own

I say and post what I think. Not any party or Newspaper propaganda Believe it or not that is the truth.
Willie
81

Bzzzz,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 04:24:12
Hang on, Chris, you saying you would rather win medals for gb than Scotland??? come on...
82

Andrew D,

bne 25/08/2008 04:25:17
Nice Hootsmon. Yet another deceptive headline.

Chris Hoy does NOT say that a Scottish team in the olympics would be ridiculous. He says right now, with the terrible state of sport in Scotland it would be.

But hell, anything to get a dig into Scotland. Man this kind of loathesome shat makes me want to kick these alleged journalists in what they have that passes as balls because they sure don't have any real ones the snivelling wretches.
83

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 25/08/2008 04:28:28
Yes #102, quite, such eloquence.

Lets get this straight - it is not ridicluous to have a Scottish Commonwealth Team, but an Olympic team is pie in the sky stuff?

Chris trains for the Olympics at Manchester but draws on none of the expertise he has gained there when representing Scotland? or he can draw on it for Commonwealth efforts but not for Independent Scottish Olympic efforts?!

Is the fact that Scotland would gain less medals a reason for not having a seperate team?, would we not be expecting less given our population? What happened to the ideals behind the Olympics?, isn't taking part what counts?, why value the opinions of one athlete over the other 'team players'?

Another big smelly fish served up the Scotsman.

Don't expect these glaringly obvious questions to be answered by a Scotsman journailst any time soon.

Scotsman Journalists - regurgatating professional trolls that make AM2 seem decent, sometimes.
84

,

25/08/2008 04:31:12
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85

Continental,

25/08/2008 04:35:48
#90 - Canadian Jambo: Other than Chris Hoy, 3 Scottish athletes won medals in Beijing - Katherine Grainger in the rowing Quad Sculls; Ross Edgar in the Cycling Pursuit team and David Florence in the Canoeing Slalom C1.
86

,

25/08/2008 04:49:46
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87

The Daleks,

Longmen 25/08/2008 04:54:49
Hoy is clearly a gibbering idiot.

There's truly nothing more repulsive than a self-hating Scot.

Hopefully, he will now fade away into well deserved obscurity.
88

KM1,

NE Scotland 25/08/2008 05:00:13
Don't see what difference it makes where the training facilities are. Lots of athletes train in foreign countries because of better facilities and opportunity. Yao Ming is a professional basketball player in the U.S., yet it doesn't stop him being one of the most revered athletes in China. Andy Murray trained in Spain because the facilities and training were supposedly better than in UK. Doesn't stop him being Scottish.
89

james 1st,

hamilton nz 25/08/2008 05:06:35
to 95percent of the world team gb is just another name for team england. if hoy is so worried he can cycle for team england and leave thos e who want to be scots to compete for scotland.
he will have done his knighthood hopes no damage with his statement
scotland did not win any medals at the olympics, look down the medal table the name scotland does not appear.
hopefully hoy will not ride at the commonwaelth games and if he does it should be for england as he does not support a scottish team
90

indune1,

Canada 25/08/2008 05:06:44

110 - Waugh - you are an eejit and an embarassment to the Strathconas - if that is the Regiment you claim to belong to. Hoy? Sold out his country? Hah! Who emigrated? You did. Who sold out? You did. You are the fat-arsed parlour room expert. Now, do us all a favour and post opinions in Canadian web sites where your ignorance will be displayed twofold.

Bzzz - You are another embarassing ned who claims to be a nationalist.
91

common sense voice,

25/08/2008 05:29:04
Isn't C. Hoy not just a big posh laddie? Probably with a Tory daddy and tory thoughts himself. Easy to bash the SNP, they have to talk about Scotland going alone after all. He also misses the point that he could train in England with their facilities, the velodrome is likely a business open to all.

Football..... Craig Gordon + 10 English and a few non English subs..... fact of life..... won't win squat..
92

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 25/08/2008 05:30:47
#114

Indune, you dufuss, I live in Old Strathcona, I don't ride or fight with the Straths (my favorite cavaly rregiment for the record)
As a CanScot you should be ashamed of your lack of loyalty to your other country.
You make Sell-Out Chris sound like Braveheart.
Hang your head in shame, Britisher. As an Albertan Scot I know where my loyalties lie.
It's Alberta's oil!! And Scotland's oil!!
93

Phil C,

25/08/2008 06:32:46
Chris Hoy is perfectly entitled to his opinion. Unfortunately, he's not the only unionist around! I think he's spent too long focused on his cycling though and hasn't yet caught up with the growing movement towards independence, and all the benefits it would bring.

The Olympics were great, but for the first time the Union Jack waving stuck in my craw a bit. The Britishness thing reached new heights. Great propaganda but it will all calm down and real Scots can get back to concentrating on claiming back their birth right. That is living in our own country, making our own decisions.
94

CwlCymro,

Wales 25/08/2008 06:38:10
Team GB is based in England, all the major facilities are in England, trials are in England, much of the setup is based in England- thus overwhelmingly this suits English athletes. certain teams like the hockey were basically England plus the odd Celt playing! Chris Hoy is stating the obvious, most of the facilities are in England. & there should be NO British football team! NEVER
95

tommy M,

25/08/2008 06:45:53
Amazing what some folk will say to get invited to tea with Broon isn't it?

totally agree - another desperate attempt at a "no you can't" article...

See when we are an Independent nation, not squandering money on Trident...YES WE CAN!
96

Teamdroid,

25/08/2008 06:49:18
One thing that's been amusing during the Olympics has been the number of Unionists salivating over Team GB's place in the medals table (a place largely bought, it must be said, in a cynical exercise of targeting funding at events where the gong return is maximised). Now, those self-same Unionists so often deride any Nationalist for being narrow, inward-looking, parochial. After all, isn't just competing at the Olympics the main thing? Isn't being there, celebrating human endeavour, joining with one's fellow man/woman and generally rejoicing in the human spirit what it's all about?

Ah no, I forgot; it's about waving wee flags and shouting "Hurrah, we've beaten them b*****d French/Germans/Aussies!"

Hypocrites.
97

Phil C,

25/08/2008 07:19:12
#121 Rulesbutnoguts

Scotland IS a nation!

Geographically, we're part of the Brittish Isles and we will always remain so. And no, not everyone wants to be independent....yet.

There's no such thing as a self-respecting Scot who wants to remain part of England any longer. Sadly, there are plenty of feardie hingers-on who live here and have neither the vision nor the gumption to reclaim their own nation.
98

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 07:25:12
#66 writes:-

“Anyway (back on topic) what does Salmond know about sport - unless it's the national pie eating championships!”


Dear oh dear, these unionista trolls get worse by the day.

You would think that they would receive at least a modicum of briefing prior to being let loose in the big bad world of the cybernats.

How many labourtory MSP’s have had a weekly “sports” column published in various newspapers?

Alex Salmond has had this distinction, so perhaps JG of “Fife” should attempt a little research prior to venturing into areas beyond their ken.
99

Richardinho,

25/08/2008 07:35:26
As Hoy points out, he has lived in Manchester for the past nine years. He is clearly permanently based there.
It's time to stop this pretence that he is a 'Scottish' athlete-he is an English athlete.
100

John S,

25/08/2008 07:43:26
Why doesn't England join the IOC and send its own Olympic team to the 2012 Olympics ?
101

Phil C,

25/08/2008 07:47:59
#123 Bully Wee

That's not fair!

Don't you remember "heid the ba'" Bliar's prowess at football?..and he was pretty good with guns. And Gordon Brown is good at watersports- he tends to p*ss up everything he touches. The Alexander brothers were champs at oral gymnastics. And Andy (aka Juan) Kerr likes to paddle his own canoe, even with a hole in it. Ian Gray is not so hot though- he even loses seats to Tories! Which just leaves wee Cathy Jamieson to do the beach volleyball. Yuck!!
102

Anne,

Eaglesham 25/08/2008 07:51:18
On the basis of his words as reported by The Scotsman, Chris Hoy will have no problem with the suggestion emanating fron Brussels this weekend that it should be a European team which is entered in the Olympic games.

Might also solve the vexed question of the football team, too.
103

AJ Fife,

25/08/2008 07:55:14
If the Scotsman is reporting the truth about Hoy (and it's a big IF!), it's a shame an individual like him, doesn't see a potential in a Scottish team.

He's looking at the whole issue from the present circumstances, but what he doesn't realise an independent Scotland will strive to provide the required facilities in the future. These things won't happen overnight, but they'll be well worth waiting for!!

After watching the London Mayor's performance yesterday, I would reckon the every corner of the British Isles will be distancing themselves from the London Olympics. Was the idiot Boris drunk?
104

pehman,

sussex 25/08/2008 07:58:59

I'm sorry Chris, but I don't agree that Scotland with its own olympic team would be ridiculious.

Will you be representing Scotland in the commonwealth games in two years ? Taking on the Ozzies, Kiwis, S/Africans, Jamacians, English, Canadians etc

Or is it fanciful to expect you to be able to compete againist the best in the world.
105

BIG EYE,

Paisley 25/08/2008 08:06:36
I like Chris Hoy. He comes across as a decent guy and his example will I hope encourage many kids, Scots or not, to take up sport.

I do however also feel sorry for him, I could see this coming a mile away as the Scot became more and more successful do were the efforts to tie him firmly to the Union.

First it was a MBE, shortly it will be a knighthood, he will be "consulted" on he future development of his sport, he will be manipulated by the unionist media to reply to what appears an innocent question and his reply, just like in this case will be used to help maintain a unionist agenda in Scotland.

Gradually unless he can get away from it his popularity in Scotland will wane. At this stage he will be forgotten bythose down south who clamour for his attention today.

He is right about facilities but is this not the fault of those who have controlled this country for generations.

There are plenty of examples of countries smaller than Scotland who did well at the games. there are a great many examples of countries like Denmark,Norway, Sweden and New Zealand who have comparable populations to Scotland but who had many times more numbers of participants than Scotland had as part of the GB team.

Commentators throughout the games mentioned that people who were attending their second games invariably did better than those attending their first.

Participation and experience are the key and no matter what Chris Hoy says the fact is an independent Scotland would have four, maybe five times the number of participants from Scotland Team GB had and that particpation and experience would help drive standards higher in the future.

I wish you well Chris Hoy and thank you for the joy you brought with your performances but be careful with finding yourself used as a political pawn it can only damage you.
106

Royster,

25/08/2008 08:08:31
#124. Actually, he is a British athlete. Having said that, an EU team would be an interesting idea - although it's difficult to get worked up about the EU. I suppose he could be trained by the English and then ride for Scotland but why would the English bother to train him? A lot of the Jamaicans etc get sports sponsorships from US universities.
107

Gdgy,

dundy 25/08/2008 08:20:10
So now will the SNPites call the greatest ever Scottish olympian a traitor?

That is the usual procedure for anyone who see throught their claptrap!
108

Calum Crubag,

25/08/2008 08:20:28
It seems as if Hoy is only against the idea because the best facilities are at this moment in England. If Labour hadn't run down our facilities then we might be in a better position.

Why not a Scotland team? I don't see the Irish wanting to rejoin Team GB. Are Iceland wanting to be repesented by Denmark again?

If a huge a medal hall and 'unity' is important then why not a 'Team Euro'? How better to cement internationalism with our German and French comrades?
109

Calum Crubag,

25/08/2008 08:22:38
136 - why a traitor? Read his comments. I agree with him. If you're a world-class cyclist then what we have at Meadowbank is a disgrace - thanks to Labour govt at London, Scotland and local level.

Forward to a Scottish team.
110

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 25/08/2008 08:23:38
Yup, Labour & The Hootsmon have converted me into a Unionist. God Save The Queen & all that.

Must keep Scotland & those pesky Scots under control.

How DARE they have any aspirations.

P A T H E T I C .
111

macca,

25/08/2008 08:29:25
Time for Scotland to be with Salmond, because Boris wont give us a fair go.let him play his wiff waf.

I take my Hat of to the Southern Irish,
112

HughB,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 08:31:25
I bet his words have been taken out of context.

Anyway, England takes the places it wants in "Team GB", then if there are any slots left, they can put in Scots, Welsh or Irish athletes.

Seems to me that if we had our own teams (and lets not forget that we are separate countries), we could get a lot more medals for Scotland.
113

Keyboard supporter,

25/08/2008 08:32:21
Why the surprise that the clinically stupid minister Maxwell compared our status to that of Jamaica. England supporters are often deirded as "Little Englanders" but nationalist bigots like the minister are just as bad with their utopian viewpoint of Scotland - they should be more concerned with numerous social problems that bring shame to the country.

Shame too on Scotsman journalists (sic) with their loaded question to Hoy - a true sporting icon who proudly asserts that he's a Scot in a british team - a lesson for the nationalists on here showing how the two aren't exclusive.
114

3inarow,

velodrome 25/08/2008 08:32:38
Hoy, you are a joke, stay down in Manchester when ye get back. Who wants to see your ugly puss all over scotland anyway.
115

walter,

25/08/2008 08:33:56
Chris Hoy criticizes the SNP and declares himself to be proud of being both Scottish and British and on cue the abuse.
The attacks begin on the individual for speaking out, the media for reporting his words, the British establishment and England.
Then there is the verse from the song that before the first three verse where adopted as the national anthem had many short lived verses, one of which mentions "Rebellious Scots to crush" (not all Scots only those that followed Charles when he attempted to take the British throne for his father) is dragged up and used as a stick to try and beat any Scot who declares themselves as British, even though that verse is not and never has been an official verse of the national anthem.
116

Keyboard supporter,

25/08/2008 08:35:05
#141 - "then if there are any slots left, they can put in Scots, Welsh or Irish athletes"

Almost beyond parody - inept
117

Westcoaster,

perth 25/08/2008 08:35:31
Amusing idiots. Because someone eg a world and olympic champion athlete doesn't agree with your stupid statements that there should be a scottish team at the olympics you all round on him. Who would be better placed to judge this Chris Hoy or a few losers with computers who still live with their mums. Narrow mind nationalism at its best.

A break in Team GB would result in countless athletes joining england for the simple fact of funding and top class coaches how would scotland ever attract or afford top class coaches just look at our national rugby and football teams ....simple answer we can't
118

larryt,

25/08/2008 08:36:18
What a truly terrible article. You make Hoy look like a fool by twisting his words and using them to mean something he clearly doesn't when quoted fully. How depressing that you should choose to do this to a man who has given such pleasure these last few days.
119

Linda,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 08:36:39
Hoy's remarks are qualified by "at this stage" .
Scotland should try to have a separate team as this will produce more athletes of international standard but has to be matched by much better facilities and coaches.
Many top athletes such as Kenyan runners spend most of their time abroad but still represent Kenya.
However Scotland won't get a separate team until we become independent.
SNP are a "can do" party unlike negative Unionists who have no confidence in their fellow Scots.
120

Keyboard supporter,

25/08/2008 08:40:19
#148 - "SNP are a "can do" party "

You must be their PR officer - i'd much rather they sort out the crime and deprivation in the country - lets see if they "can do " that!!
121

Senga Jean,

25/08/2008 08:43:10
Scotland could field a team of World Class of the BEST WORST journalists in the world. Self loathing,self abusing, spineless wonders . Scotland has much to be proud of but not its newspapers. Independence is needed to restore self belief.
122

eric,

Lothian 25/08/2008 08:43:36
Its sad that we lose Athletes to other nations ,But we will get over it,naming the National veladrome after Mr Hoy is ridiculous maybe!Hasnt Mr hoy noticed that even traditional Labour unionists has deserted GB UK UNION In Scotland!
123

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 25/08/2008 08:44:50
I think Hoy was suggesting that, at present, the sporting infrastructure in Scotland is poor and that if we were to be competitive we would need far better facilities.

In that narrow sense it is a 'ridiculous' suggestion for Scotland to have it's olympic team.

However, that is taking it as a given that the Olympics are all about medal tallies and completely ignores the ideals behind the games.

An independent Scotland would be able to afford our own facilities to encourage sporting excellence if that was deemed to be the right way to go.
I for one,living in a country obsessed with sporting achievement, would far rather see sport in Scotland as a vehicle for promoting health and well-being and the community of man, rather than the narrow, nationalistic 'were better than you' prism that Brown seems to favour.

Yet another example of British expression being good, Scottish expression as pitiful, inward looking and narrow.

Marvellous
124

Boswall,

25/08/2008 08:47:32
"SNP are a "can do" party"

Tell that to the police recruitment division.

Well done to Chris for speaking his mind and not being brainwashed by the SNP PR drivel machine.
125

Upbeat,

25/08/2008 08:47:43
Hoy may have been "ambushed" into giving an opinion about this. But what he says is true. For an athlete of his generation Scotland has not the facilities for him and many others to train to compete at the highest level.

The remarks attributed to the SNP on the other hand are not the result of any press " ambush". They are the considered opinion of a group who find themselves in a position of authority in Scotland.

That these politicians have not realised that Scottish athletes cannot find the facilities they require in Scotland to train at the highest level is fairly typical. To deprive a generation of young Scots to opportinity to train and compete alongside their peer group in team GB would be cruel and quite worthless. When deciding how to spend the revenue in Scotland the SNP may advocate throwing money at Sports facilities again. But we must rememwer that this is the same Scottish Government that presides over a situation where young people as a group are encouraged to do far less physical exercise than any previous generation alive today. The Scottish Government are responsible for a mindset that would see existing facilites such as Meadowbank and scores of other school playing fields and parks sold off for redevelopment for housing.

To have the aspiration to change this is a worthy ideal. But to start from the assumption that claiming all those of Scottish birth as athletes for Scotland , would in the present circumstances simply drive able top class Scots athletes abroad, to compete for other nations that provide the facilities they cannot find at home.
126

Bob M,

Paisley 25/08/2008 08:49:24
Some facts about Team GB’s record breaking Olympics:-

62% of the 47 medals were won using bikes or boats.

4 medals in athletics (the only gold being won by a woman with a dubious drug history).

0 medals in ball sports.

Team GB took 1 medal per 1.3 million of population.

Team Ireland took 1 medal per 1.4 million of population.

127

AJ Fife,

25/08/2008 08:49:47
The Scottish public would do well the remember the Paula Radcliffe situation this year. The laughable and snivelling cry baby prevented a Scottish athlete from competing in the Olympics, purely because she could!

That sort of situation would disappear, when the English media 'darlings' can no longer influence selection!

Getting back to yesterdays events, did I see Rebecca Loos playing the fiddle next to Beckham on tap o' the bus?

Plus, what has Becks got to do with the 'lympics anyway?
128

Keyboard supporter,

25/08/2008 08:50:37
#152 - A bit rich for an ex-pat living in Oz to pontificate how an independent Scotland could become some sort of mini Oz. Please tell me how an independent Scotland would be able to afford all the facilities we would require - please say something other than oil!!
129

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 25/08/2008 08:51:38
If Scotland was Independent and had it's own team more Scots would compete on the Olympic stage.

This would increase the level of competition internally in Scotland aswell as promoting sport on a broader basis and encouraging wider participation with resultant health benefits.

Couldn't have that now could we?


New Zealand 185 Olympic Representatives in 2008 - 3 million people population.

Scottish Olympians in 2008 - around 30?

130

Keyboard supporter,

25/08/2008 08:53:06
#156 - How exactly did she prevent a "Scottish " athlete from competing - typical dhim!
131

Keyboard supporter,

25/08/2008 08:55:01
#158 - your "heather & glens" misty eyed viewpoint of Scotland is normally reserved for the tourists.
132

Alan Reid,

NZ 25/08/2008 08:55:26
Was it not our own squash star Peter Nicol (world #1, commonwealth champion) of Aberdeenshire, who went to play for England because he couldn't get funding in Scotland?

Do I see a comparison, Hoy has a point, but to me it's makes all the more reason why Scotland should be independent.

Also, is it not lottery funding that helps out our sports? If so, I guess that the 200 million that has been diverted (so far) to pay for the Inner London regeneration Project, better known as the London Olympics’ would have been better spent in Scotland.
133

Angoos,

Baku, Azerbaijan 25/08/2008 08:57:44
#1 and all those others who state that a Scottish Olympic Team would mean that more Scottish athletes would get the opportunity to represent their country at the Olympic Games.
Please note that Olympic Qualifying times/distances/heights/etc are set by the various sporting ruling bodies for athletes wishing to participate. If these times are not met then the athlete fails to "qualify" to go to the Olympics.
Regardless of whether the team is Scottish or British, if you don't cut the mustard, you don't get to go !!
Perhaps if the Scottish Executive (past, present and future) actually put their money where their mouths are and started investing in youth sports SERIOUSLY then and only then will more successful Scottish athletes appear at the Olympics !!
134

AJ Fife,

25/08/2008 08:58:08
#159,

Do a little research and find out you horrible little dangleberry!
135

Keyboard supporter,

25/08/2008 09:00:45
#162 - If we merely kept the Scottish lotto funding then approx 5% of the net gains - which would be less succesful due to lower proportinate jackpots - would hardly transform the nations sporting facilities - well intentioned but unrealstic
136

eric,

lothian 25/08/2008 09:01:33
What do you think Glasgow is Building Mr Hoy.And to think they are going to name it after yourself.Thats like naming it Duke of Cumberland velodrom.
137

Linda,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 09:02:04
Hoy is like a typical footballer who kisses the badge and pledges allegiance to whatever team he is playing for at the time (or until a better offer comes along).
138

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 25/08/2008 09:02:21
#157 Couch potatoe moved to the computer

Sorry, forgot I can't have a contrary view to uber unionists because I sold out moving to my wife's country - sorry, complete sell out aren't I, should have told her to forget it unless she wanted to move to Airdrie.

Er, why not read my post properly?. It fairly clearly states that I would prefer Scotland developing it's own sporting potential for the social benefits associated with sport and the 'taking part' aspect of sport rather than for glory.

You are clearly in denail suggesting that Oil dosen't actually exist as an income stream! and that therefore income from this cannot be used for funding sports/health programs.

Here's some other income streams for developing sport in Scotland:-


Stop developing sport in England vis a vis London 2012

Stop spending billions on nukes

Stop funding illegal wars like Iraq...

Would you like me to go on?

139

Buck Rogers,

in the 25th Century 25/08/2008 09:04:48
What a shame that Chris Hoy has been dumb enough to allow himself to become a pawn in some futile political argument. Particularly when the arguments behind his assessment are no better than what you would expect a small child to come up.

I have not seen the interview that the Scotsman is quoting him from, but if the paper has managed to quote him correctly, then it seems he is from the same mold as a lot of the home grown football talent on these shores, i.e. fantastic talent but thick as mince!

Hopefully someone will get hold of him and tell him to keep nis mouth shut on these issues. It would be such a travesty if he manages to take the shine off his tremendous achievement, particularly so soon after it was achieved.
140

JG,

Fife 25/08/2008 09:07:44
The main reason that there were not loads of Scottish athletes at the Olympics was that they did not reach the qualifying times/distances. Do you all REALLY think that if a Scottish person was burning up the track they wouldn't be included because there was pretty and popular (but slower) English girl there? It's nice and woolly to think that 'it's not the winning, it's the taking part' but without success there's going to be no investment. Things have moved on since the inception of the Games (maybe sadly) but that's called 'reality' (some of you may need to look that one up!).
141

Hamish Scott,

25/08/2008 09:08:51
"Chris Hoy: Scottish team in Olympics would be 'ridiculous'"

Another mendacious headline from the Scotsman. In the article itself Chris Hoy rules out a Scottish Olympics team 'at this stage', and in specific regard to cycling, because of the lack of facilities in Scotland. Ask Chris Hoy again in 2014 when we have a new National Velodrome in Glasgow for the Commonwealth Games.
142

Royc,

London 25/08/2008 09:09:23
"Soon or later you will have to decide if your are Scottish or that bastardizied and contrived concept caled "British".

We are all British in case you hadn't noticed, what's so difficult about being Scottish and British anyway? The problem about nationalists the world over is that they get this wee bee in their bonnet and it no doubt gives their lives some purpose, but usually at the expense of common sense, peace and the ability to live in a multi-cultural, pluralistic world. Serbian, Kosovan, Abkhazian, South Ossetian, these nationalist extremists cause a heck of a lot of problems for everyone else, including the moderates in their own communities. The SNP posters here with their heads back in 1314 are not really so very different, calling everyone else traitors because we don't agree with their narrow views on life. Some of them need to get out more, see the wider world. If Scotland's so wonderful, how come about 5 million Scots are happily living and working elsewhere with their British passports? Could it be that jobs, the economy, the infrastructure and the attitudes in Scotland are a little wanting? Basically, it's a socialist state whether Labour or the SNP are in charge and neither could run a whelk stall. And the sports facilities are gash because no Scots politician will spend money on them, they're too busy funneling the dosh into welfare and handouts for their tribal supporters.

As for fat Alex lecturing us on sport, you're having a laugh surely...

143

obeone,

25/08/2008 09:13:11
136 - excellent!

Why doesn't the state of Maryland demand independence? They would rank pretty high in the tables just off the back of Michael Phelps.

In fact lets break the whole world up into tiny little countries that no one could spot on a map and then we can all be as small minded and xenophobic as the scots and the olympic opening ceremony will take 2 days to complete while a 1000 teams parade out
144

Border Scot,

25/08/2008 09:15:10
Chris Hoy is proud to be a Scot representing Britain. The reaction of most nationalists to his words tells us an awful lot about them. My guess is that they have not enjoyed the last few weeks because they have shown that a Scottish and a British identity are not incompatible. Most Scots that I know have not only been hugely proud to see Chris Hoy do so spectacularly well, but have also taken delight in the performance of non-Scots in the British team. What a great three weeks it has been.

145

Grahamski,

Falkirk 25/08/2008 09:17:57
These threads are good because they expose exactly what is going on in the bitter grievance-fuelled and deluded minds of the nationalists. You have to laugh at their ludicrous boasts of changing politics because they are so 'positive', aye right.
I particularly like the vile and personal attacks attacks on Mr Hoy, a true Scottish hero and role model because he doesn't share the narrow views of the nationalists.
Is this what we can expect from a nationalist vision of Scotland? If it is, then independence? no thanks!
146

Grahamski,

Falkirk 25/08/2008 09:21:05
176
Yep, that's the most important thing in your life, remedy the 'passport nonsense'........ I'm sure the people who you correct are really glad you put them right as they slowly back away from you, nodding and smiling, looking at their watches and explaining apologetically that they really must go.........
147

A Scott,

Glasgow 25/08/2008 09:21:37
Jist another greedy athlete.The sailing female Robertson wants a british football team, Alan Wells hates the idea of a Scot Oly team What do they all have in common ??? They live and train in Engerlund. ...When we get independence I hope people remember their words............!!!!!
148

BIG EYE,

Paisley 25/08/2008 09:22:15
170

It is not just qualifying times, each team is allowed only a set number of competitors in each event.

There are many Scots who could have qualified but were denied under the maximum entrants rule.

Sort of spoils your point doesn't it?
149

,

25/08/2008 09:24:00
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
150

Number 6,

Germany 25/08/2008 09:24:29
A surprisingly weak argument from Hoy. Maybe someone should inform him that Scotland is hosting the Commenwealth games in 2014, where we will have the training facilities he has in englandshire.

The bad news Chris is that you would have to compete for the love of the sport and not the lottery money.
151

Keyboard supporter,

25/08/2008 09:25:56
#168 - be thankful you're in OZ but premise of what i said holds true - we have upteen social problems that a shiny new athletics track or similar won't change.

The oil argument has been done to death but unfortunately there is no nationalist magic wand to eradicate Scotlands ills.
152

Liz,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 09:25:57
#178

I sometimes wonder in which bitter repressed land some of these Nationalists on this board live?
I feel geniuinly sorry for some of them as they are so caught up in their own bitterness and delusions of opression that they come out with some spectacular rubbish on these boards. The sudden venom which they are directing at Mr Hoy is simply embarassing he supports Team GB and for some of you that seems to make him less "Scottish".

I find the comments about how if Scotland had its own team there would be more Scots there a strange one - do you people not realise that there are minimum requirements for all these events which if you do not meet you do not qualify to enter?!
By the same argument, there are probably English athletes (especially in the cycling) who could not compete as there were Scots in the team - no one is complaining about that...
153

watcher4,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 09:26:18
You can imagine all the fantastic training facilities that we have in Scotland to train our Athletes. Hoy going round the veladrome at Meadowbank maybe. Yep you can imagine. Get a life Salmond, you can`t even put Police on our streets ya Clown.
154

Number 6,

Germany 25/08/2008 09:26:25
#170 I believe a Scottish Marathon runner was denied a place in the team to make way for the gutless and tremendousley unfit, Paula Radcliffe, who succeded only in destroying Britain's chances in the race, AGAIN.
155

Liz,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 09:30:23
#182
Come on then - name them!

I can think of just one (I wont spoil the challenge for you by naming them) and since the qualifing system is open at least for athletics - you finish top (maybe top two) in the trials you are selected - no anti Scots bias there if someone is good enough they go.

156

Jim A A,

oban 25/08/2008 09:31:29
After watching a sport??? where ye can get amedal for kicking the skite out of your opponent.Why not for our druggies an neds heidin the discus an catching the javelin?
157

Grahamski,

Falkirk 25/08/2008 09:33:13
188
You believe? Really? Who would that be then?
158

Grahamski,

Falkirk 25/08/2008 09:35:19
190
A nationalist deliberately taking a quotation out of context for their own narrow agenda? Are you mad? They wouldn't do that, they believe in the new positive politics!
159

Linda,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 09:35:47
Its Gordon Brown who is being ridiculous in wanting a Team GB Football team. In football terms at least we are a recognised independent nation and we can't risk that.
In any event it is a nonsense that professional football is part of the Olympics. There are enough top class international football tournaments without this devalued olympic one.
160

Grahamski,

Falkirk 25/08/2008 09:36:25
195
'Oh my goodness, is that the time? I really must be going....'
Sound familiar?
161

Grahamski,

Falkirk 25/08/2008 09:37:31
199
Good point, well made....
162

Grahamski,

Falkirk 25/08/2008 09:38:12
....another fine example of the SNP's positive politics....
163

Grahamski,

Falkirk 25/08/2008 09:38:54
..that's why Labour lose, they are so negative, not like the nats...har har har
164

Brian Ferrari,

25/08/2008 09:40:20
OK - let's see what happens in the Commonwealth Games in 2 years time....
165

Grahamski,

Falkirk 25/08/2008 09:40:40
202
Let's laugh at somebody's funny foreign-sounding name - is that a nat game is it? What about laughing at their colour too? Ooooh they're not like us, must be foreign, let's make fun of them....welcome to the narrow world of nationalism
166

Grahamski,

Falkirk 25/08/2008 09:43:09
207
Another nat fails the irony test....
167

Border Scot,

25/08/2008 09:43:28
The last three weeks have shown Scots working side by side, with one common purpose, with the English, the Welsh and the Northern Irish. The nationalists hate it, they absolutely hate it. And when a Scottish hero comes out and says he is proud to be British, they hate it even more.
168

Grahamski,

Falkirk 25/08/2008 09:45:38
209
Aye, but he's not a real Scot......
169

eric,

lothian 25/08/2008 09:48:23
Most Scots dont and wouldnt watch England play football ,same applies to English athletes!
170

Border Scot,

25/08/2008 09:48:42
#184 - There will be a velodrome, but there will not be the training infrastructure that Hoy has now. He has immediate and unlimited access to the expertise of the cycling world's finest coaches, sports scientists, medical staff and psychologists in Manchester. When representing the UK or Scotland he reaps the benefits of this because he is British. As part of a rival team, he would have no such access.
171

Border Scot,

25/08/2008 09:50:11
#211 - They would always watch the English football team, hoping that it would lose.

And they may not watch an English athlete, but they would certainly watch a British one - as these last few weeks have shown.
172

Grahamski,

Falkirk 25/08/2008 09:50:12
211
.and most Scots aren't quite as bitter and twisted as you. Thank god.
173

Beergoggles,

England 25/08/2008 09:51:51
#211 Why, cos you despise us that much do you?
174

Nikostratos,

25/08/2008 09:56:18
Bit of a conundrum for the snp and their cybernats there is Chris Hoy undoubted Scots hero who takes a different view on the national team (TEAM GB AS OPPOSED TO TEAM SCOTLAND).

What can they do their natural instinct is to heap abuse and vile invective on him. But that would be counter productive to the vast majority of Scots (and Brits)and would lose the snp support.

Oh well Alex and the snp are going to struggle with this one.word of advice to all you nats dont attack Chris at the moment of his greatest achievement and the height of scotland and the united kingdom pride in his
Olympic victory.
175

Number 6,

Germany 25/08/2008 09:56:22
209# Northern Ireland is not part of great britain.
It is merely a label that is changed to suit England when required. Were you aware that Scotland has competed under her own flag at the Olympics before ??.

Why is there no GB or UK team at the Commenwealth Games. Can't you see the stupidity of the whole thing ?

The sooner we are competing on our own, like all the other tiny countries, the better.

Or are we the one exception , are we the one team that "Cannae dae it on oor own". How spineless and pathetic.
176

Beergoggles,

England 25/08/2008 09:58:35
England is stopping you from having a referendum for independence. Do it. Now.
177

Beergoggles,

England 25/08/2008 10:00:52
Freudian slip: England isn't stopping you...
178

Beergoggles,

England 25/08/2008 10:01:52
#219 Why not? Then have done with it.
179

Darien,

Panama 25/08/2008 10:03:17
Olympic 'heroes' always come back with the Union Jack wrapped around them and all GB sentimental. They somehow confuse their performance with that of the nation they represent. Hoy could always refuse to perform on behalf of Scotland if he wished, but I don't think he would - he does not exclude himself from the Commonwealth Games, does he? Nothing to stop him training in a foreign country if he wishes or needs to - many athletes already do that to some extent.

#192 - Scotland had 19 performers at the Beijing Circus, Norway had over 90. It is about facilities and infras and Norway has that in abundance - Scotland thanks to successive Westminster Gov's and puppet gov's in Edinburgh get zip. Having to qualify for Team GB limits the opportunities for many good Scots athletes. Yet over 80% of the Team GB members won sod all - so its not all about winning, its about participation and learning as well. And the more people you exclude, the less who learn. I think a 100+ person Team Scotland at London 2012 would be excellent. If we win something that would be nice too but we should not get too paranoid or superior about the benefits of that.
180

Harry Paratestes,

Glesga 25/08/2008 10:03:55
#209 and #210:

What planet are you two on? Or perhaps you are smoking some crack?

Can you give me ONE example of the Scottish National Party bad mouthing ANY olympian or olympic team?

What's that????? Er, that'w what I thought. You cannot! Wow, maybe you can get jobs as copywriters on the Scotsman. Dinnae worry, you just have to rehash the same old misleading keech!

Alex Salmond and his government quite rightly stand up to those who stand against Scotland's best interests. That is why he has to continually highlight the incompetence of Brown and his steadfast refusal to come to the aid of those Scottish people who are suffering. Suffering, I might add, as a direct result of a Labour government's spectacular bungling in a time leading up to recession. Brown doesn't know what do to in life other than tax the poor. We need people like Salmond to challenge when we have idiots in Downing Street. Good on the First Minister.

You might have a problem with that, just like the neds that write for this paper, but the overwhelming majority of Scots do not - including those of us who mistakingly did not vote for his party in 2007.

You can try your best to try to suggest that comments made on this discussion board can be attributed to the Scottish National Party but those of us who actually watch what is happening in our country know that you are talking pants.
181

HughB,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 10:06:04
#185,

Oil has been important enough for the last 30 years to top up the London coffers, so lets not ignore this important natural resource.

It is very important for Scotland to control ALL its own natural resources, and to ensure that they are not squandered the way Westminster has ever since they got their greedy hands on our oil!!!
182

HughB,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 10:07:26
and lets not forget that it is decades of neglect and lack of investment by Labour, etc. which has caused the lack of facilities in Scotland.

It will take a long time to repair the damage done, but the SNP will do it.
183

Moncreiff,

Kinross 25/08/2008 10:08:32
The opportunity to compete at the highest level is incredibly important to an athlete, a Scottish Olympic team would exclude almost every athlete from competing in a team event at the Olympic Games.

Entry to the Olympic Games is by Europe qualifying in most sports, so Scotland would have to find and train a team in ALL sports and then beat the best in Europe.

Being the number one in Scotland is not a big deal compared to being the number one in Britain which is a very big deal.

(Father of two Junior Commonwealth medalists a senior Commonwealth medalists and British number one in 2007, also a director of a Scottish Sports National governing body.)

Chris Hoy is right.
184

Beergoggles,

England 25/08/2008 10:10:36
#226 Once again, England is not 'making' you take a referendum now or at any time, so there is no 'drum'.
185

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 25/08/2008 10:11:20
Clearly Hoy believes that at present facilities in Scotland do not help promote elite sport at the level at which he competes

If this is the strongest endorsemnt of the benefits of Britishness that the unionists can up with so be it.

It does raise the question - why are our facilities so poor - 16 months of SNP government?

This thread has been hijacked by the narrow-minded unionistas pushing their own agenda and twisting Hoy's words.

I think he has a done a great job and that his comments are not being being critical of the SNP, they actually highlight the paucity of investment in sport in Scotland (unlike presently in England)). This is a critisism of 300 years of unionism and it's attitude to the health and well being of Scotland.

Thems is the facts.
186

Jennifer R.,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 10:11:22
How sad that all these nationalists have to spit bile on Chris Hoy for daring to have an opinion. So far on this forum he has been called a traitor, thick as mince and other obscenities.

The man is a hero and all of you webmongs should take a look at yourself posting bilious nonsense at 1 in the morning. Maybe you should get out a bit more rather than hanging about your computers in some wierd SNP pride competition to see who can post the most nonsense.

I have a met Chris, he is an amazing guy and proud to be Scottish, but also proud to be British. He came along to the Corstrophine Fayre a few years ago and chatted to the kids, showed off his Commonwealth medal and made a real impact that day. I have also met him since and he is polite, charming and an all round decent guy.

I feel sad that he is being used by Salmond and co as a political pawn. They are basking in the glow of his success and disgustingly trying to use it to their own political advantage. The fact is he wouldn't be where he was without the coaches, facilities and team members he has in Manchester, that was why the team were more successful than any other of our Olympic teams.

On the football point, if we can play Rugby as the British Lions what is the problem in fielding a GB football team? I think the SFA are getting a bit precious!

187

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 25/08/2008 10:15:35
#227 Chris Hoy is right about the lack of investment in sporting infrastructure in Scotland.

New Zealand - 185 2008 Olympians

Scotland - 30 olympians with an extra 50% extra of population.

Your glass is either half empty of half full

It's either sunny or raining

You either can or can't do something.

Hope v's 'we canny do it'

188

big is the new small,

scotland 25/08/2008 10:16:17
www.NoTeamGB.com
189

tartangladbach,

edinburgh 25/08/2008 10:17:38
i think we should be grateful for anything we can get from london! people forget, we would have no electricity, food, clothes etc if we were not part of the union i would not be able to read or write or even tie my shoelaces, in fact i would not even have shoes! i for one am grateful for everything they give us and glad i'm not living in a cave without the union! although i think as an independent country, we could send a good javlin team!
190

HKLad,

25/08/2008 10:18:22
#222
Well said. Many competitors did some or all of their training in other countries. You represent your country through participation, something Scotland seemed to lack compared as you say to Norway.
191

Border Scot,

25/08/2008 10:18:57
#223 - Where did I mention the SNP in my post? The politicians know that it is counter-productive to criticise a national hero just because he does not agree with you. Most cyber-nats - it seems - do not.

#229 - Chris Hoy says, and I quote, "I'm a Scottish athlete in a British team, and I'm proud to be a British athlete." If you have no problem with that over there in Australia, then good on you, as your compatriots say.
But for the record, an independent Scotland would not be able to afford the world class training facilities that are currently in place in Manchester - it's not just the velodrme, but the coaching team and the back-up staff. Such an investment would be completely unjustifiable.
192

camster,

east kilbride 25/08/2008 10:20:20
Simple solution. Let's take the Northen Irish solution and let the rabid nationalists compete with their beloved Celtic neighbours under the Irish flag while the rest of us can get on with supporting Team GB.

Chris Hoy is an athelete who wants to be part of a winning team. Taking him out of Team GB would be like moving him from Rangers to Dundee United. Who would be happy with that.



193

Alan B,

25/08/2008 10:20:23
#Jennifer

The problem with fielding a GB football team is mainly due to the fact that it could put in jeoperdy the national football teams and privledges these football associations have. So if you want a Scottish football team to remain then having a GB olympic football team is a bad idea.

Also remember it is not just the SFA but the Welsh and N Irish are concerned about this to. (remember people like smith are unionist anyway)

What also is the advantage of entering a football team anyway. GB has not being doing so. Why does it really matter now that London is hosting the games?

The lions do not enter world cups. They also do not risk causing the home nation rugby teams to stop (rugby being a minority sport).

There is also the issue with a GB football team that from a british social point of view would/could be devisive. The olympics is about a british olympic team coming together. Football becuase of the nature of it as a sport and the passions that run with it could rip that apart.



194

Border Scot,

25/08/2008 10:22:31
#237 - The nats hate any examples of the Scots working successfully with their fellow Britons.
195

Grahamski,

Falkirk 25/08/2008 10:22:59
223
Harry,
I know it hurts your heart when you see nationalism ridiculed for the infantile nonsense it truly is. If you take some consolation in the fact that there has been no official pronouncement by the SNP then good for you.
The nutty nats on here have been their usual sickening and bitter selves. They can't stand the idea of Scots, Irish, Welsh and English people getting together and fighting for a common cause. It goes against their philosophy. More fool them.
196

John H,

edinburgh 25/08/2008 10:24:34
Typical tosh from the Nats. All talk and no action. A party who would turn Scotland into a European backwater. They are unable or unwilling to fund the pledges made in their manifesto. A mixture of lies and sheer economic incompetence but then again dream tickets are cheap so long as they are just dreams. Can you honestly imagine the SNP funding investment in sport to the extent that we as a nation could effectively compete at international level. As I said before this lot will not fund their stated objectives so why would anyone with a modicum of commonsense think that they would fund sports to the extent required.
Sheer lunacy to even consider it.
197

Alan B,

25/08/2008 10:26:19
#John H

" A mixture of lies and sheer economic incompetence "

think you are getting confused with the labour party.
198

Yeah1,

25/08/2008 10:27:54
If Salmond and the SNP care so much about Scottish athletes and the future of Scottish sport why are they allowing the velodrome in Edinburgh to be destroyed?

Salmond could easily step in and stop the SNP councillors from knocking it down but instead he appears to be sitting back and letting it happen.

Surely if Salmond wanted Scotland to have first class athletic facilities he would start by getting his councillors to stop the destruction of the velodrome?
199

Auckland Arab2,

25/08/2008 10:30:06
So why do we have a Scottish team in the Commonwealth Games?

Cue deathly silence!!!

It is entirely possible, just not likely to happen until we leave the UK. I didn't hear too many arguments about training facilities in the UK when we won that single solitary gold in the Olympics (Atlanta?) only a few years ago.
200

Rob,

25/08/2008 10:30:08
Full marks to Jennifer R. Correct. If the 4 home nations each had a team you would never have heard of Chris Hoy. Scotland have made a huge contribution to Team GB but as usual that is not enough for the idiotic Nats - they want the glory, just like they want the oil!! Greed prevails, as usual -

In reality, Salmond is only stirring it up in his usual cocky way hoping to get a reaction from the English and keep his core supporters happy. I bet he's laughing his head off - the whole idea is the very zenith of crass, and he knows it!
201

John H,

edinburgh 25/08/2008 10:33:18
245 None as blind as those who cannot see.
202

Stirling Sentinel,

Stirling 25/08/2008 10:37:50
#230 Well spoken Jennifer ! A little less Nat burbling on this would be welcome. In Rugby football the Ireland team covers both Northern Ireland and Eire. They don't compete on the world stage independently. Why should Scotland not be included in Team GB.
203

Yeah1,

25/08/2008 10:38:10
#241

"The problem with fielding a GB football team is mainly due to the fact that it could put in jeoperdy the national football teams."

Sepp Blatter has already said that if GB has a team in 2012 it will not jeopardise the invidual national teams.

"What also is the advantage of entering a football team anyway. GB has not being doing so. Why does it really matter now that London is hosting the games?"

Because the UK is the birthplace of football and they want the national sport to feature in the London games.

"The lions do not enter world cups. They also do not risk causing the home nation rugby teams to stop."

The GB football team will not be entering a world cup either...The Olympic football tournament is nowhere near the scale of the football World Cup.
204

Jock E,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 10:39:05
So #111/102/103/115/129 now turn on a great athlete and proud Scotsman because of some quoted statement in the media.

God help us if this lot ever get control of Scottish politics!

There's nothing wrong with being Scottish, Nationalist or Unionist BUT let's not have the vulgar, rabid and racist entries posted on this issue. They are an embarrasment to our country. Scotsman, please delete these types of entry and let's have some sensible debate. You are allowing too much vitriol.

205

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 25/08/2008 10:39:37
Didn't think much of him in the first place but That guy hoy has gone down in my estimation... JOKE: Chris Hoy Might lose his medals after olympic bosses discovered he tied sausages to his bike during training and one of his friends then let three rottweilers chase him to help him peddle faster. Olympics officials said it was performance enhancing dug abuse...
206

Andra, Dundee,

25/08/2008 10:43:57
More whinging from the Nats. More conspiracy theory.
They seem to want to deny the right of free speech to anybody who disagrees with them (Chris Hoy for starters) - first makings of a one party state with secret police.
Me thinks they have a serious inferiority complex (probably justified).
I'd say lets have a referendum on the subject, but as soon as they loose they'd claim conspiracy and want another one. Maybe they just need a prescription for sedatives.

207

Jock E,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 10:44:16
So #111/102/103/115/129 & now 255, what dedicated and superhuman work have you done for your country?
208

Andra, Dundee,

25/08/2008 10:46:06
#255 Banana Heid
Hoy has gone up in my estimations.
In fact he inspired me so I went out on Saturday to buy a bike - will hopefully collect it tomorrow.
Now I just need a wee team GB sticker for it to make it go faster - look out for me!
209

Andra, Dundee,

25/08/2008 10:48:55
It really was bliss on these forums for the past few weeks while the nats were away at their Whinging Olympics (where they seemed to have no access to computers).
We at Team GB had a great party.
210

Edward,

25/08/2008 10:50:57
Saw this coming a mile off
We have had wall to wall brainwashing in the media about Team GB this and Team GB that and how we are all one nation etc, except that most of 'Team GB' is English!
I feel sorry for thos Scottish Atheletes, Chris Hoy included that have been literally brain washed by being submerged in the the 'British' thing
The Westminster government are determined to drive a wedge between the Scottish People and the Scottish government
This may sound silly to the unionists, but that is exactly what is happening. We have the spectacle of the Westminster Government under Brown pushing for a 'British' Football team and going to great lengths to work it up, with talk of having Alex Ferguson as Team GB Football manager.
Can I remind everyone Great Britian id not a country, the United Kingdom is a union of TWO countries
Back wioth Chris Hoy, I wonder if he genuinly feels the way as he is being painted in this paper!.
Lets remind ourselves, we have the COMMONWEALTH games in 2010 coming up, is Chris stating he will not compete for Scotland?
For the 2014 games in Glasgow, Glasgow is building a world class velodrome and will be naming it after Chris Hoy. In retrospect is he aware of this, if so if he doenst want to compete for Scotland perhaps it should be named something else
211

Alan B,

25/08/2008 10:54:14
#Yeah1

We all know fifa is about politics. As you seem unaware there has been pressure from alot of sources to stop the individual representations from the home countries. As such the you would be putting a scottish football team and the privledges that the sfa get at risk. You ommit that it is not just scotlands view that this could happen. But the view of Wales and NI. You also ommit that Smith is a unionist and as such this it not a nat issue.

Personally i do not think football has a place at the olympics.

I also think the argument that we should suddenly compete in football as team GB because it is in london particularly weak. If it is the right thing to do (enter a gb football team) we should be doing it anyway.

If it did jeopardize a scottish football team would that bother you? How much risk with having a scottish football team and the current privledges the sfa would you be willing to risk to have a gb team in a meaningless football competition.

212

Andra, Dundee,

25/08/2008 10:54:25
I like all the comparisons with New Zealand - have these posters ever been there they like sport as much as we like fish suppers!
I note there are very few comparisons with Ireland - a much more relevant comparison - they won one silver and two bronze - a good bit less than the Scots in Team GB.

I did hear the SNP sports man saying he did not hear the Irish wanting back into Team GB - I thought that was a stupid comment - I bet there have been Irish people in the Team - and I bet some will wish they could be in a team like Team GB.
213

noswod,

Honestus 25/08/2008 10:54:26
If we qualify for the World cup we will win it. Its the Argentina syndrome all over again. Maybe Scotland should realise it is a wee man in a big world and keep taking the money from down South and reject the small minded isolationist decline doomed route of Nationalism. We Scots get much much more benefits of the Union than we have ever put in, one of them is opportunity for our talented sons and daughters of which our athletes have grasped the opportunity. Say no to Nationalism and yes to opportunity.
214

Yeah1,

25/08/2008 10:55:52
#255

"Didn't think much of him in the first place but That guy hoy has gone down in my estimation."

Why didn't you think much of him in the first place? And why has he gone down in your estimation now?

Do you have no respect for someone who has won 3 gold medals?

He has achieved far more in the 2 weeks of the Olympics than someone like you will achieve in your entire life.

just because he has said he is 'proud to be a British athlete' he has gone down in your estimation?

You are utterly pathetic and an embarassment to the thousands of Scots who actually think what he has done is a massive achievement.
215

troonjambo,

Troon of course 25/08/2008 10:57:01
# Jennifer R.

I've never met you and know nothing about you. I can, therefore only form an opinion based on what I read in your comments here.

Do you actually read articles in the paper or do you just read the headlines? This article doesn't say anything about Alec Salmond using Chris Hoy as a political pawn. It's the paper that implies that with its ridiculously inaccurate headline.

We're all entitled to our opinion and just because I'm proud to be a member of the SNP that doesn't mean I didn't enjoy watching the Olympics. I wasn't looking forward to them this time but ended up watching a lot as it became increasingly apparent that many of the English competitors do not share the BBC and other media outlets' blinkered and ol-fashioned views. I felt genuinely sorry for Gayle Emms after her badminton defeat and thought the swimmers' delight at succeeding was lovely to watch. Same goes for the big boxer and the Tae Kwon Do girl when they finally succumbed.

I hate to tell you and many other posters on here (on both sides of the unionist/separatist divide - just as many of the separatist posts really annoy and embarrass me as much as some of the unionist ones do ) that enjoying sporting events under the present constitutional structure and holding a separatist point of view are not mutually exclusive.

I hope I haven't displayed too much bile for the unionist readers. I'll probably be dismissed as too reasonable to be a true separatist.
216

Edward,

25/08/2008 10:58:02
We had part of the brain washing yesterday by the media, especially the BBC, when it hyped up the 2012 celebrations in London
Part of the Coe stance is that allthough the Olympics were in London, it would involve the whole of the United Kingdom
Well if yesterdays farce was anything to go by, it is empty words from an empty vessel!
Yes larges crowds in front of Buckingam palace, then showed large crowd in Trafalgar Square and for some reason a crown in Hackney (you note all London), then we get a glimse of Weymouth, where the sailing events will be. Then Glasgow, reported as very large crowds, except the BBC managed to keep the camera angle very low and gave the impression of large crowds, but looking at the picture, seemed to only cover half the square, then we got some singa a long which sounded like I'll take the high road and you take the low road..etc.
It was Sky that reported that there was an event in Manchester, but hardly anyone turned up. So much for the'country' being cought up in the fevour as reported ad nauseum on the BBC
217

Number 6,

Germany 25/08/2008 10:59:10
Can the unionistas explain why the home countries do not compete as one in the Commenwealth games ???.

No of course you can't, but it does not stop you down playing the chances of your own country does it.

What a lack of self worth you lot display and all to continue under the "Union" flag. What a sick joke that is. When is team GB going to be banned for allowing athletes from Northern Ireland in their team ??.

Farcical.
218

,

25/08/2008 11:00:08
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
219

James.com,

25/08/2008 11:00:25
Would a GB football team be the slippery slope for all international competitions?
220

Yeah1,

25/08/2008 11:02:18
#263

Do you know who Sepp Blatter is? He is the head of Fifa - he has already said that a GB team at the 2012 Olympics will not affect each individual nations' teams, so why would it 'be putting a scottish football team and the privledges that the sfa get at risk'?

I agree that football shouldn't be in the Olympics - only sports where the Olympics is the pinnacle of that sport should be allowed (so no football, tennis, baseball etc), but that is another argument.

As Sepp Blatter has already stated, a GB team in 2012 will not affect the individual nations' teams so why not have one? I suspect your argument against a GB team is based more on your nationalism and support for the SNP than on any fears you have of the Scottish team being jeopardised.
221

Rob,

25/08/2008 11:03:10
259. I know - but most of the Nat ravers don't. The English don't give a monkeys. They cheer for Murray at Wimbledon, Hoy in Beijing etc - they're jocks, so what? The English always turn our for Team GB whether they are ethnically English, Scots, Welsh, or Irish or Nigerian, American, Dutch or from Mars. The Nationalsits live deeply entrenched in the past tense - the rest of the world has passed them by.

Poor Edward (262) - having views like that with a good old English name like his! I think Chris Hoy has been very focused about everything related to his life - but you have effectively accused him of being a brainless puppet - a description that the evidence would suggest fits you rather better than him
222

Alan B,

25/08/2008 11:03:42
#noswod

"We Scots get much much more benefits of the Union than we have ever put in"

How do you work that out? Your post just demonstates a lack of confidence in scotland and what scotland could achieve. ie "we may not be very good but it is all that we can expect" type of thing.

The union has condemned scotland to economic underachievement for more than the last 30yrs. The poverty that comes with that poor economic performance then has helped create the environment that has mean we have one of the worst health records in europe. I sometimes wonder if people like you actually think before coming out these statements.
223

Andra, Dundee,

25/08/2008 11:05:26
#262 Edward,
You typify nats - you have no respect or appreciation for how the vast majority of Scots feels about the Union, yet you feel compelled to tell us how we should feel.
This is a free country (and I fear by the comments of you and your pals that you wish it was not).

Your question about Hoy not competing for Scotland is absolutely ridiculous - I bet he loves Scotland loves competing for Scotland - just as he loves GB and competing for GB. Unfortunately the attitude of the Nats annoys people and reduces the loyalty of many to Scotland since most do not want to be associated with your ridiculous stance.
224

Andy 443,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 11:07:57
One can only imagine how a Scottish Olympic Team might fare in the Olympics, given the national aversion to physical pursuits. Perhaps if they were to introduce kebab eating, and the "100m Giro Sprint," Mr Salmond might yet find some grateful champions...
225

Andra, Dundee,

25/08/2008 11:10:04
#269 Number 6
The answer is very simple - within the Commonwealth we are all family and compete with friendly rivalry.
At the Olympics we complete with our family in the same team.
I am concerned with your lack of appreciation for how the majority of Scots feel about the Union. You seem determined to make us think in the official way - first sign of a one party state with secret police. You need to step back and take a look at yourself.
226

Jennifer R.,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 11:10:40
#267 Troonjambo

My comments weren't based on the article but on the the thread that it has generated above and the comments from some of the more rabid wings of the Nationalist movement to slam and degrade anyone who doesn't agree with them.

None of the posters know Chris, and yet from only the headline they have branded him a traitor, thick as mince and villified him. To be honest they are in no position to judge when their raison d'etre is to hang about online at midnight, wait for Scotsman articles to be posted so they can quickly fill the board with their knee-jerk reactions and nationalist rants.

I think everyone is entitled to their opinions. That includes nationalists and it also includes Chris Hoy. It is the nasty tone that depresses me.

Chris is a hero and he has done Scotland and Britain proud. Regardless of your political persuasion at least accept that.
227

Yeah1,

25/08/2008 11:10:49
#270

"Chris Hoy is not representattive of the Scottish people, he has a minority view and I dont back him."

What a strange thing to say, Chris Hoy is a Scottish and a British sporting hero.

Where is your proof that he is 'not representattive (sic) of the Scottish people'? Do you have an opinion poll that shows the majority of Scottish people would rather have a Scottish Olympic team than a British one?

I'm sure Hoy doesn't really care whether you 'back him' or not, he has just won 3 gold medals and achieved far more in the 2 weeks of the Olympics than you will achieve in your entire life.
228

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 25/08/2008 11:11:16
At least any GB fitba team will likely have a SCOTTISH goalie...the English are - umm - nae very good...;-)
229

Andra, Dundee,

25/08/2008 11:13:08
#275 Alan B
Life is what you put into it - not what you take out of it. Put lots in and you will reap the rewards.
Nationalists brains seem to work the other way round - you want paid before you do any work.
230

AJ Fife,

25/08/2008 11:13:13
Since when did the image of Myra Hindly typify Londoners??

An interesting choice!!!
231

Alan B,

25/08/2008 11:13:28
#Yeah1

That was the Sepp Blatterat the IFAB meeting at Gleneagles in March warned against the home nations forming a GB team for 2012.

http://sport.scotsman.com/londonolympics2012/Blatter-issues-Olympic-warning.3859440.jp

-waiting for the apology :)

Vice President Jack Warner has also argued against the
the 'priviledged' position of the home nations and their independent status within FIFA.

I am not really bother either way if we have team GB or a scottish team at the olympics. My support for independence has abolutely nothing to do with the olympics.
232

subrosa,

25/08/2008 11:14:17
# 186

Each country/nation has a specific number of athletes who can complete. Scotland had 19 athletes in the GB team.

If there was a Scotland team then many more would be able to attend the Olympics. Aren't the Olympics about taking part? If we continue as we are then far fewer Scottish athletes will have the opportunity to perform. These opportunities are vital to their training and it doesn't take a PhD to work out the reasons.
233

Robert Bonaly,

East Lothian 25/08/2008 11:15:31
What is really embarrassing is the SNP and how they try to make political points/capital/gain out of every single situation. Like so many who have responded on this chain I am a very proud Scot who is becoming more and more embarrassed in how the SNP want us all to be portrayed - well you know what a majority of us don't like it at all and are happy to be Scots within the GB framework. The quicker we have the poll to allow us to tell them that the better and they can have their wings suitably clipped and we can get on with our lives in a far less confrontational manner and display ourselves with some integrity. Chris Hoy speaks for a lot of us and unlike Salmond and his motley crew he does so with so much dignity - never mind promoting Chris for a knighthood, what about him being our First Minister, , as he would certainly get my vote before most of the buffoons and second rate politicians who are currently representing us at home and further afield, that's for sure !!!
234

Andra, Dundee,

25/08/2008 11:15:55
#277 MacGillicuddy
That is very rich!!
You want Scots to be proud of being Scottish but an Englishman is not allowed to be proud of being English.
Says a lot about SNP attitude - me me me!
235

Alan B,

25/08/2008 11:18:03
#284 Andra

Good to see that your view of scotland is our poor economic performance is down the the fact that scots are lazy and are not willing to work. While those in england or all those small countries in europe that our perform the uk work so much harder and have so many more brains. Yes it is nothing to do with poor leadership of the country. Nothing to do with poor economic management. Nothing to do with having economic politices set for the uk as a whole and not in scotland interests.



236

Alan Reid,

NZ 25/08/2008 11:19:41
Most of these are comments are mostly petty garbage.

Hoy is only saying that there are NO facilities in Scotland up to standard. Question is why is that? Why are all the best facilities in England?

There is nothing wrong with Scottish people wanting a Scottish team, as a Nat, and a SNP member I have nothing against Scots, competing in a British team. I just look forward to the day when I could hopefully I’ll see a Scottish team.

I find it rather sad that, some people have a “cannot do that cos we’re too small” attitude

I love rugby, if Scotland was independent; I would still like to see the British Lions play as they are, that’s all, nothing wrong with that.

But I feel that it’s wrong that my country, pours billions into England’s infrastructure, and as a result, has nothing world class to show for it.
As Hoy says, there’s nothing in Scotland, and that why I’ll keep shouting for Scotland to get a better deal.

And I still remember the distain that the "British" (Scottish) curling team were treated by the English press.


237

AJ Fife,

25/08/2008 11:19:49
#290,

Pity they didn't have an image of Jack the Ripper. That could've been a winner!

Didn't Edward VII have something to do with it?

238

Yeah1,

25/08/2008 11:22:18
#287

"" Do you have an opinion poll that shows the majority of Scottish people would rather have a Scottish Olympic team than a British one? "

And do YOU have an opinion poll which shows the converse?"

Erm....no I don't but I'm not the one arguing that Chris Hoy's views are opposed by the majority of Scottish people am I? If you state something as fact you need to have proof to back it up...
239

subrosa,

25/08/2008 11:22:28
# 280

Whilst I appreciate your deprecation of an independent Scotland is your view, please do not think that supporters of other parties have your negative view. Just because they don't vote SNP doesn't mean to say they won't vote for independence.

Thankfully many Dundonians see the light nowadays although some, like yourself, refuse to even switch it on.
240

Andra, Dundee,

25/08/2008 11:23:55
#292 Alan B,
That is not my opinion or my experience. However the SNP have been trying to brainwash us into thinking we are useless and it seems a self full-filling prophecy with many. Nats seem to put their personal failing down to the Union and hence outwith their control - making them think "what's the point" and go back to bed.
You need to ignore SNP doom and gloom - stand up and fight - like the Scots did for the first 250 years of the Union when they prospered and made more of life than most other parts of our Island.
241

Alan Reid,

NZ 25/08/2008 11:24:54
The Scotsman a few months ago:

Coe asks Scots critics to rise above Olympic cash row for sake of sport



« Previous « PreviousNext » Next »View GalleryPublished Date: 01 May 2008
By David Maddox
Scottish Political Correspondent
LORD Sebastian Coe, the London 2012 chairman, yesterday said the organisers of the Commonwealth and Olympic Games should rise above squabbling over funding and work together to create a great sporting legacy.
In an interview with The Scotsman yesterday, Lord Coe rubbished the argument that Scotland has lost out on National Lottery cash and insisted it would benefit hugely from the London games.

He was speaking after Stewart Maxwell, the sports ministeADVERTISEMENTr, said it was wrong that £184 million of Scotland's lottery money was going to the 2012 games in London as the Commonwealth Games Bill passed its final stages at Holyrood.

Lord Coe, who had met Mr Maxwell earlier in the day and was due to have talks with the First Minister, Alex Salmond, said focusing on money failed to look at the bigger picture.

"The argument over the money is a matter for the two governments to resolve," he said.

"But I don't think we would have this argument if it was a hospital or an art gallery. For some reason, people see sports as an added-on extra.

"I would point out that if you look at the geography of Britain, we have a large population and in a small land mass. That means that having the Olympic Games here is going to have an impact on everybody."

His meetings with Mr Maxwell and Mr Salmond were about trying to dovetail London 2012 and Glasgow 2014, he said. "It's wonderful that we have two of the three biggest sporting events in the world within two years in Britain.

"The idea is that we try to share as much knowledge and information as we can to organise these two games. We both want to create a great legacy of regeneration, greater sports participation and volunteers who will help out with the two games.

"There a
242

HJ,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 11:25:46
Alex Salmond and Stewart Maxwell's comment are nothing more than politically-motivated attempts at headline grabbing.

What seems to being ignored is that most disciplines at the Olympics require meeting a qualification standard which, more than likely, most scots competitors wouldn't meet and, if they would, they're probably already at the Olympics with the GB team anyway. If Scots were denied the opportunity to being part of a GB then we wouldn't have seen the 2 scots mens hockey players at the games, we wouldn't have seen Kath Grainger at the games as part of the women's rowwing squad, we may not have seen Chris Hoy (altho, as the fantastic sportsman he is he probably would have succeeded despite the lack of training fascilities in Scotland).

Of course, it's easier for all the narrow minded cyber-nats on this site to denounce Chris Hoy - they'd probably be more open to listening to what Sean Connery (sorry, that Sir Sean who has, of course, accepted a UK knighthood) has to say on the subject rather than Scotland's most successul Olympian. Or they'll listen to the great chief himself alex salmond, who's interest in sport seems to be entirely based around which high profile game he can turn up and be photographed at(all before a nice lunch in corporate hospitality).

As a scot, i'm delighted at the GB team's success, and particularly proud of the scots members successes. The SNP should try and use this as an opportunity to encourage more young scots into sport, to focus on where more funding and better facilities are needed, and not as an opportunity for yet more unnecessary and narrow-minded UK bashing.
243

Alan Reid,

NZ 25/08/2008 11:26:22


"There are ways we can save money by sharing ideas and expertise."

He went on: "This is also about inspiring people. When Liz McColgan won Olympic medals, young girls in Leamington Spa in England did not think 'I don't care because she is Scottish' – instead they were inspired to become athletes. Likewise, I'm sure that Kelly Holmes, when she won her two Olympic golds, was an inspiration to young girls in Glasgow, Edinburgh and around Scotland."

He also praised the Olympic gold-medal winning sailor Shirley Robertson, who gave evidence yesterday to parliament's health and sports committee about encouraging people to take up sport. Lord Coe stressed that the Olympics would benefit Scotland greatly. "Scotland has world-class training camps at places like Strathclyde University which will be used.

"You have to remember 80 per cent of the bids for training camps in Scotland were accepted and they were seen as amongst the best.

"Already, a business in Fife – Mason Land Survey – has surveyed the whole land of the Olympic Park in London and produced the GIS (geographical information survey] map for the work which will be needed to be done there. And there will be many more business opportunities for Scottish companies."

He also warned that it was vital that ordinary participation sports were boosted. "A lot of people seem to think that general participation and elite sports are not linked, but they are," he said. "Part of the legacy of both 2012 and 2014 is that there needs to be the infrastructure and pathways in place for people to take up sport."

He added: "I was pleased to talk to the health and sports committee about that and see that they are taking the issue so seriously."

He spoke to The Scotsman as MSPs yesterday passed the Glasgow Commonwealth Games Bill, putting in place measures aimed at ensuring Scotland's 2014 Games are a success.

The legislation prohibits unauthorised ticket sales and "ambush" marketing, and provides powers to addr
244

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 25/08/2008 11:26:26
Technically, there is no reason for Scotland not to have its own Olympic status as there are already many anomalous Olympic teams, eg Hong Kong, Palestine etc. As for Northern Irish athletes they are free to chose whether they wish to compete with Ireland or GB. So even within the UK there is leeway given.

Scotland already has independent status in several sports, eg rugby, football, golf. It also competes in the Commonwealth Games as Scotland. At a government level sport is a devolved issue and the UK Minister of Sport has no remit in Scotland.

That having been said, the real question which needs to be asked is whether we would rather send a larger contingent of Scottish sportsmen and women who might not win medals but would gain from the experience or send a smaller number who would be more likely to win medals under Team GB. There is also the added complication of team sports, which is quite significant, as in rowing events, sailing, relays etc where teams are composed of Scots/English/Welsh.

A lot of comment has been made of the lacking of quality facilities in Scotland. This is not unique in that a great many athletes worldwide already train in other countries. After all Andrew Murray trained in Barcelona as Hoy did in Manchester. The Glasgow games 0f 2014 should help but we need to deal with the present. It is not only about facilities; Physios, coaches, backup staff etc are only found at places of excellence.

Perhaps the solution to this is have a Scottish Olympic team which would maximise individual participation but with the option of allowing athletes in 'teams' to chose which nationality they wish to compete under so that they can achieve personal fulfilment. After all that is what sport ought to be about. Medal tables are mere froth when said and done.
245

Andra, Dundee,

25/08/2008 11:26:56
#296 subrosa
No lights required - in the Union life is bright!
246

Alan Reid,

NZ 25/08/2008 11:27:44


The legislation prohibits unauthorised ticket sales and "ambush" marketing, and provides powers to address transport and land-purchase issues.

Under terms set out by the Commonwealth Games Federation, the Scottish Government gave a commitment that, when Glasgow won, legislation covering these areas would be in place by 2010.

SCOTS FIRMS CASHING IN

MORE than 200 Scottish companies have applied for contracts linked to the Olympic Games.

Paul Deighton, the chief executive of the London Olympic Games Organising Committee (Logoc), revealed the figure yesterday as he said that all parts of the UK would benefit from the event.

The 200-plus firms have signed up to a network from which work for the games will be awarded. Subcontracts will be chosen from the network, after the main contractors are selected by Logoc, which will prepare for and stage the games, and the Olympic Delivery Authority, the public body responsible for building new venues and infrastructure.

Construction work on the infrastructure is already under way in London and Mr Deighton said contracts for the events – including for equipment suppliers, caterers and cleaners – are due to start being awarded next year.

Mr Deighton said Scottish workers could follow the example set by Australian event organisers, who he said continue to be in demand following the success of the Sydney Olympics in 2000.

"The Sydney Olympics was the biggest and most successful event ever and the Australians managed to turn that expertise into a sustainable business. There's no reason why UK businesses can't do the same," Mr Deighton said.

He said it had become easier to sell Scottish businesses on the benefits of the Olympics following Glasgow's successful bid to host the Commonwealth Games in 2014.



247

Darien,

Panama 25/08/2008 11:31:19
Bring on the Referendun Alex and lets be done with all this drivel once and for all. I'm sure Engerland will get by on her own, somehow.......
248

AJ Fife,

25/08/2008 11:31:25
#300(well done on the 300 btw),

Ah yes, the Duchess of Clarence! He was a dab hand with a machete........allegedly!

If the face of the London Olympics is going to be a cereal killer - how about Tony the Tiger?
249

Alan B,

25/08/2008 11:32:36
#Andra

"That is not my opinion or my experience"

That is what you posted in #284. As such your reply does not make sense. I posted that scotland had done poorly economically compared to both the uk as a whole and other small western european countries. You replied that is was becuase scotland would not put the work in. So i do not know why you are now saying something completely the opposite within one post.

The fact remains scotland has underperformed the uk as a whole economically (consistently) over the last 30yrs. In the last decade scotland has a growth rate of 2.2% while the uk has a growth rate of 2.8% and the small european countries that make up the arc of prosperity have a growth rate of 3.8%.

There are either 2 reasons for this:
-scotland is incapable of performing aswell as others (as you posted in #284)
or
- scotland has been badly run.

The fact is in the 80s we were continually told that scotland could not go independent as small countries could not succeed. A few decades later what we have seen is the small western european countries in general outperform the big ones. As such it is depressing that we still cannot accept we made a mess of it by staying in the union and move to improve the lives of scots in general.

You post "i'm all right" seems to typify the problem.
250

Andra, Dundee,

25/08/2008 11:32:40
#303 Huntly loon
First complication with your suggestions is that many - e.g. Chris Hoy - complete in individual as well as team events.
I wonder what some of the best athletes from smaller countries think about not having the chance to compete in team events.

There is a serious outbreak of "the grass is greener on the other side".

And not enough of "if it isn't broken don't fix it" - but always bear in mind "it's better to aim for perfection than reach it" - i.e. there is always room for improvement (as Team GB has demonstrated well over the past few years).
251

John S,

25/08/2008 11:33:12
#272. FIFA president Sepp Blatter said playing a combined team would risk the four British associations losing their separate identities. RTE 9 March 2008
Sepp Blatter has previously said that fielding Scottish, English, Welsh and Northern Irish players as part of an Olympic team could threaten each country’s football bodies.Expess August 24,2008

252

Number 6,

Germany 25/08/2008 11:33:23
280, I must say , that's an incredibly weak reason for single teams in the commenwealth. Are Scotland a commenwealth country, I dont think so.

As for your assumption that the majority of Scots approve of this current "union", I think you will find that you are, like a lot of unionistas, rooted very firmly in the past, hence the unionist parties breath-taking complacency.

I'd keep an eye on Glenrothes If I was you.
253

Marga,

Fife 25/08/2008 11:34:41
Edward, 10.50. "The Westminster government are determined to drive a wedge between the Scottish People and the Scottish government
This may sound silly to the unionists, but that is exactly what is happening".
Exactly. It's frightening but it seems they've moved up a gear, with a Scottish-born PM in the lead. Maybe the English will start to warm to him after all ...
254

Alan B,

25/08/2008 11:35:00
#Yeah1

It is good to see that you failed to reply to my post #286 that Blatter warned against having a GB football team at the olympics. (as did Warner).
255

Yeah1,

25/08/2008 11:35:17
If Alex Salmond and the SNP care so much about Scottish athletes and the future of Scottish sports why are they standing by and letting the velodrome in Edinburgh be destroyed?

Why doesn't Salmond intervene and stop his SNP councillors from knocking it down? Surely this would show his support for Scottish athletes far more than his 'official reception' for the Scottish Olympians and his attempts to get reflected glory from their achievements?
256

subrosa,

25/08/2008 11:35:35
# 301
'The SNP should try and use this as an opportunity to encourage more young scots into sport,'

Indeed they should but of course, with such a limited number of Scots able to join a team GB, I'm sure many are deterred from reaching their potential. After all, if you know that only 19 (as this year) are going to 'qualify' then why spend years training. If there was a Scotland team many more would participate (Norway had 99 at the Olympics).

I thought any sport competition was about the taking part and, in some cases, also representing your country. Why deny Scots the chance to be a team? Or is it purely the fact that money talks as it has done for these Olympics.
257

JG,

Fife 25/08/2008 11:37:23
It would be really nice if we all embraced the "taking part" ideal as they did when the Games started (then we could watch swimmers like the African guy who came in about 2 lengths after everybody else!) and clapped happily when our athletes (who had failed to reach the qualifying time) jogged in last. BUT WE WOULDN'T! People want winners (why else does Rangers and Celtic have the biggest support - because they've been the most successful) and when our Scottish competitors failed to deliver, funding would be withdrawn. I thought we were trying to encourage children to take up sports? They're not going to do that if we're not producing winners.
258

big is the new small,

25/08/2008 11:39:06
#253, Yeah1
Blatter has already said earlier this year that it'd put each of the home nations teams in jeapordy. The fans groups of all four nations are against this idea. Don't forget that there are lots of different associations that want our four teams merged and Blatter will not be around forever.

www.NoTeamGB.com
259

Alan B,

25/08/2008 11:40:52
#Yeah1

Still ignoring that you were wrong regarding Blatter. So now that you have had it pointed out to by both myself and #John. Does that make you change your mind? Interesting given that you would not answer my previous question that if it did risk scotlands standing as an individual football team on its own right.


Does that mean you were ignorant or just lying hoping noone would check it out? The fact that you do not acknowledge that you were wrong does suggest to me you were lying, in order to strenghten your case. Brown would be proud of such tactics. In fact are you sure you are not a labour party member.
260

Andra, Dundee,

25/08/2008 11:40:52
#309 Alan B
Scotland and the north of England has suffered greatly over the past 30 years (out of 300!) because it was largely involved in the heavy industry that has moved east. However we are gradually overcoming that problem through successful focus on higher value and service industries - Edinburgh's financial sector is booming and this is feeding to the whole central belt (hence the need for infrastructure like the trams).

The Nats debate is reducing focus on progress like tying one arm behind our backs
261

Marga,

Fife 25/08/2008 11:40:56
Fifa and the 4 nations:
Don't underestimate the danger to the national teams if this GB team gets going. They're an exception, and an unfortunate (for Fifa) model for other aspiring nations without a state. Fifa is highly political and open to manipulation - anyone following the charade of Catalan attempts to get any teams recognised will tell you how the lobbying and dirty tricks of the Spanish government have closed every door. And it's not just what these centralist countries do, it's the visceral reactions and hysteria their defence of the nation awakes in everyone - see most of the above posts.
262

Rosbrog,

25/08/2008 11:42:28
There are a few issues i think.

Firstly this is Chris Hoys specialist field and he, along with other scottish cyclists will know the level of facility available in scotland and whether any of this is feasible in producing top class cyclists. This can of course be changed over the course of the future. He is surely a product of the system and facility structure at present. That he feels this way i would like to think is down to his own experience of a lack of facilities however i feel if he is upset by the idea of an independent Scot team the finger can only be pointed at those who have previously and presently governed at UK level.

Secondly although it is important to have facilities for younger athletes there are a number of senior athletes from various countries who train abroad, loughborough in england or the US colleges are a prime example.

Thirdly living abroad myself and also having been on holiday in another country during the bulk of the olympics i have only heard hoy refered to as english in conversation. This is a fact of life which will never change, the union jack, GB, god save the queen will only ever be associated with England just as the USSR was commonly refered to as Russia. It makes me a bit sad hearing this and often explaining the difference but this is such a regular occurence as to be almost universal in my experience. This is only my experience but i do wonder how many other people through travelling or working outside scotland have experienced similar.
263

Border Scot,

25/08/2008 11:42:51
#297 - Johnson was wearing the logo of the 2012 Olympic Games. He was not wearing a Cross of St George.
264

Yeah1,

25/08/2008 11:45:21
#316

"with such a limited number of Scots able to join a team GB, I'm sure many are deterred from reaching their potential. After all, if you know that only 19 (as this year) are going to 'qualify' then why spend years training."

What a strange argument, only a limited number of people can qualify for the GB team too (out of a population of 60m) but that doesn't deter people from trying.

And actually there were 26 Scottish athletes in the GB team, not 19.
265

JG,

Fife 25/08/2008 11:46:45
#324 Border Scot
Thanks for that - that takes ONE subject to moan about off the agenda!
266

Border Scot,

25/08/2008 11:47:38
293 - I was not arethat New Zealand made any contributions to the British treasury. If that is the case it is clearly wrong and should stop immediately. I suggest you raise it as an issue with your country's press and politicians.
267

Mikey,

25/08/2008 11:49:22
When oh when are we going to get over the cringe factor? Lots of people train abroad. That is a fact! Was Linford Christie less English because he trained in Denver?

A Scottish team is the way froward. Yes, we need facilities and yes, we need to lobby the government for them, but to deny us a team in the Olympics because of some cringe factor? Get over it boys and girls. We'll probably be apart from the UK in 2012 anyway.
268

AJ Fife,

25/08/2008 11:49:33
#324,

What did you make of Boris' "ping pong" jibe at the Chinese yesterday? Was he drunk?

It's gonna be an interesting 4 years watching old Boris make a t!t of himself!:)

269

Andra, Dundee,

25/08/2008 11:50:49
#318 JG
Interesting addition to the debate - you are right to focus on the key - getting (young) people involved in sport - since this is crucial to fighting our obesity and health problems.
The participation vs winning balance is difficult to make and you highlight the reality - winners are needed to create excitement - most people can name Chris Hoy but to our shame most could not even name our Silver and Bronze medal winners!
The Olympics is the place where we want winners and for that we need a powerful team.
The Commonwealth games is the perfect place for much wider Scottish participation - think back to our great Scottish swimmers at the last Games.
270

Jock's blog,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 11:51:01
Visit the Save Meadowbank website to see a video produced by Edinburgh racers featuring Chris Hoy’s appeal for the track cycling facility in Edinburgh to be retained.

http://www.savemeadowbank.org

You can also sign a petition to the Scottish Government urging them to invest properly in sports facilities.

http://epetitions.scottish.parliament.uk/view_petition.asp?PetitionID=260

271

JG,

Fife 25/08/2008 11:51:41
#329 AJ
I actually thought he was poking fun at the football lot - you know, "Football's coming home, it's coming home"?
272

tommy M,

25/08/2008 11:52:40
Lack of facilities in Scotland wouldn't be anything to do with decades of lack of investment by the liebour party and westminster by any chance, would it?

Thanks for the link -www.PetitionOnline.com/RE3010/petition.html
273

Yeah1,

25/08/2008 11:53:35
If Alex Salmond and the SNP care so much about Scottish athletes and the future of Scottish sports why are they standing by and letting the velodrome in Edinburgh be destroyed?

Why doesn't Salmond intervene and stop his SNP councillors from knocking it down? Surely this would show his support for Scottish athletes far more than his 'official reception' for the Scottish Olympians and his attempts to get reflected glory from their achievements?

Perhaps some SNP supporters could answer my above questions, you seem to be steadfastly ignoring them up to now, is that because they show Salmond does not really care about Scottish sports?
274

Alan B,

25/08/2008 11:54:52
#Andra

Firstly your post still has not acknowledged and apologised for you attack on scots as lazy when you said regarding scotlands poor economic performance:

"Put lots in and you will reap the rewards."

".. you want paid before you do any work."


Then you say "30 years (out of 300!)". I just used 30 yrs (and the last 10) as recent periods. I could have easily said 40, as the 70s was not exactly a period scotland was performing well. You really seem clueless about scotland economic performance or even the uks. The uk had been in economic decline relative the much of western europe since the end of ww2.

The fact that scotland may or may not have done well economically a hundreds yrs ago (do not know as i am only versed in post ww economic performance) really is a desparate argument for the union.

I am not saying there have not been some economic achievements. I am not saying scotland is an economic basket case. What i am saying is we have underperformed the rest of the uk and most other small western european nations. Some that had alot less going for it that scotland 30yrs ago.

Do you honestly think that any uk government will address the economic problems and issues that will allow scotland to have economic growth that will matches the best in europe?

Do you honestly think monetary policy has been good for scotland over the last 30yrs?

If scotland was to do an economic assessment of the effect of the euro on the scottish economy and it came out in favour. Should scotland really say oh but england might not want to join so it is ok for scotland to underperform. Independence is about the right to create policies to address scotland problems and build on her strengths. And to kick out failing governments.

How long does scotland have to put up with the excuses that 40/50yrs ago the uk governments failure keep scotland competitive is the reason for our economic failings today.

275

Yeah1,

25/08/2008 11:55:41
#333

"Lack of facilities in Scotland wouldn't be anything to do with decades of lack of investment by the liebour party and westminster by any chance, would it?"

Yes they probably would have something to do with that.

Its just a shame the SNP aren't doing anything about it - infact they are making the lack of facilities even worse by knocking down the velodrome in Edinburgh where Chris Hoy first started cycling.

Why doesn't Salmond intervene and stop his SNP councillors from knocking it down?
276

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 25/08/2008 11:56:54
Sportsmen and women are always telling us "we don't want politicians telling us what to do". Well, Chris Hoy that cuts both ways. Keep earning your medals but keep your nose out of politics.
277

HJ,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 11:56:57
#316 - subrosa

as said, due to qualification requirements, there is no guarantee that Scotland would field more olympians if independent as many wouldn't get in because they're not reaching the required standard. also, as previously mentioned, scots would miss out from being part of gb squads in team sports (such as Hoy in the cycling!!!).

Also, sport competition isn't about just the taking part, it's about competition and winning. Personally i don't get excited watching UK competitors trailing in last but i do get excited when we win or challenge. Your suggestion implies you'd be happy to have 100 scots at an olympics failing to win any medals, rather than 20 or so challenging for medals. Can't see that inspiring the next generation of scots athletes.

put simply, if you're a scot and good enough you'll go to the olympics as part of a gb team - if you're not good enough, you won't. That's what most scottish olympians want so i suggest you listen to them and not to politicians like alex salmond and stewart maxwell whose agenda is politics not elite sports.
278

JG,

Fife 25/08/2008 11:57:31
#330 Andra
A very good and thoughtful post. I wonder how many people will turn up to watch the Old Firm at the weekend, compared to the numbers at Cowdenbeath or Ayr.
279

wattie>x 1,

PLYMOUTH 25/08/2008 11:57:34
When are we Scots going to be ALLOWED to decide in a democratic manner what's good or bad for our our nation.
Who ever heard of the man Hoy before a couple of weeks ago?. I admire and respect his achievement with great pride but SURELY this doesn't give him some sort of divine right to ridicule the ambitions off a great deal of his fellow country-folk and the nation he confesses to hold a measure of endearment for.
Those rightly and directly responsible for most of the present sad plight of our country is the ambitious political glory and power seeking careerist Brown and his sleazy, lying, corrupt New Labour Party.
He, as Chancellor was directly responsible for the deprivement off many sporting facilities for our youngsters when sanctioning the sale of sporting fields off state schools; as money was being pumped into the sporting fields of private schools at the same time.
Come on Mr Hoy, be a true Scot and put the blame on the shoulders off those responsible, and don't forget the money that provided you with the facilities south of the Border and sent you to China to compete wasn't provided only by your English (British) friends!
280

Alan B,

25/08/2008 11:59:30
#Yeah1

Perhaps you could acknowledge that Blatter was warning against having a GB football team, saying it could jeopardize scotlands football team and our privledges.

Now that you have been shown to be wrong will you finally admit it.
281

Yeah1,

25/08/2008 12:00:23
#337

"Sportsmen and women are always telling us "we don't want politicians telling us what to do". Well, Chris Hoy that cuts both ways. Keep earning your medals but keep your nose out of politics."

Are you retarded? Chris Hoy was talking about the OLYMPICS, the GB OLYMPIC team and Scottish SPORTING facilities - all issues he quite obviously is perfectly entitled to talk about.

Nowhere does he mention politics at all.

Did you actually bother to read the article before commenting on it? You are clearly embarassing yourself with your comment.
282

I.Wright,

Glasgow 25/08/2008 12:00:23
"Simon Clegg "Only independent nations, as recognised by the international community, can have national Olympic committee status bestowed on them."
The following are not independent nations but are members of the IOC.
Tawian (China)
Palestinian territories.
American Samoa, Guam, Puerto Rico, and United States Virgin Islands (USA)
Bermuda, British Virgin Islands, and Cayman Islands (UK)
Aruba and Netherlands Antilles(Netherlands)
Hong Kong (China)
Cook Islands(New Zealand).
Although most NOCs (National Olympic Committees) are from nations, the IOC also recognises independent territories, commonwealths, protectorates and geographical areas."

Taiwan is internationally recognised as an independent nation. It's only China and its allies that don't recognise it. All the other examples are independent in the sense that Scotland is not. A part of a larger country, as Scotland is, can't just declare that it's independent and form an olympic team - that's obvious - but the SNP will play politics with the olympics in their usual pathetic ooportunist way. They make us an international laughing stock. Let's see if Quebec, for example, could get its own team. Or Catalunya. Where would it end.

The trouble with the idiot nats is that they want the status of independence before they've managed to persuade the Scottish people that it's worth voting for. Just get this, thickos: WE'RE NOT INDEPENDENT YET!
283

AJ Fife,

25/08/2008 12:01:05
Hi JG,

Who knows what he was really trying to say, but you could see Coe trying to hide in the background! :D

284

Yeah1,

25/08/2008 12:04:03
#340

"When are we Scots going to be ALLOWED to decide in a democratic manner what's good or bad for our our nation."

Well considering you live in Plymouth you won't be deciding on what's good or bad for Scotland anyway, even if there is a referendum...
285

troonjambo,

Troon of course 25/08/2008 12:04:17
#281 Jennifer R.

Looks like we have to agree to agree, on some points at least.

I agree with your second paragraph - although the unionists are also eager to pounce on the intended meaning of the Scotsman's headline.

I agree entirely with your third paragraph.

I agree entirely with your final paragraph, although I am slightly disappointed that the way my original comments came over to you led you to believe that it was necessary to ask me to "at least accept that."

Please believe me - my political persuasion in no way precludes me from accepting that Chris should be described in exactly the way you have described him.

Consider me pleased to accept that view.

It's a shame more posters can't respond rationally on these threads.
286

Yeah1,

25/08/2008 12:05:14
#341

"Perhaps you could acknowledge that Blatter was warning against having a GB football team, saying it could jeopardize scotlands football team and our privledges."

Perhaps I will acknowledge that when an SNP supporter answers my questions in post #334 about why Salmond is allowing the velodrome in Edinburgh to be destroyed?
287

I.Wright,

Glasgow 25/08/2008 12:08:29
The truth is that the Nats absolutely can't stand the fact that Chris Hoy and other Scottish athletes did so well as part of a British team. But he is such an obvious, unchallengable sporting hero that they daren't come out and say what they REALLY think, which is that he's a traitor to Scotland, a unionist lackey, and all the other garbage that they come out with whenever anyone dares to call themselves British as well as Scottish. Alex Salmond and his mealy-mouthed cronies aren't fit to tie Hoy's shoelaces. He is a true credit to Scotland with a truly international significance, unlike the pygmies of the SNP.

But they hate it so, so much that he's done so well - it's hilarious!!
288

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 25/08/2008 12:09:06
#342 Chris Hoy is clearly using his sporting celebrity status to make a political statement (otherwise nobody could care less what he says about anything). The fact that he can earn gold medals in a sport does not make him an expert in the whole Olympic Games or politics.
289

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 25/08/2008 12:11:16
Furthermore if Chris Hoy doesn't want to compete for Scotland then tough; I for one won't miss any egoistic prima donnas.
290

LondonCalling,

25/08/2008 12:12:10
Congratulations Chris Hoy, but many of us in England continue to long for the day when Scotland has not only its own Olympic team but also its own country, and ceases to rule ours with politicians elected in Edinburgh and Glasgow.

Without the burden of having to subsidise Scotland, England will have a lot more of her own cash to spend, including on improving our own country's sporting facilities.

PS: One thing's for sure if there was an Olympic medal for constant moaning, Scotland would win gold, silver and bronze.
291

Number 6,

Germany 25/08/2008 12:12:25
343 Costa rica is made up entirely of US citizens, hardly an Independent country is it ?. Blows your stupid argument right out the window.

All we need to do is get our various sports federations recognised internationally, then we can apply for IOC membership. Nothing you or any other clinging unionista could do about it.

And you have the gall to call us "Thickos".

And yes, it's that simple.
292

Brian Hill,

25/08/2008 12:12:56
Simon Clegg: "Only independent nations, as recognised by the international community, can have national Olympic committee status bestowed on them."

Oh thanks for that tip Simon. Happily we have a referendum coming up in 2010, we'll follow your 'recommendation' to the letter.

So Chris isn't against a Scottish team per say. He states the obvious re facilities without thinking a few seconds more as to why Scotland doesn't have the facilities.

He doesn't ask himself, would an Independent Scotland in control of its own wealth have allowed itself to fall short of other similar sized nations re Olympic standard sports facilities?

Think about it Chris, we are already committed to new facilities for 2014, don't you think these could be brought forward for 2012?

One step at a time. Would we like a Scottish team in the Olympics? We would?

OK, let's look at the logistics, what would we need in place to give our athletes the best chance of success?

Can we afford it? Where would the money come from?

Once we have answered these questions we could take an informed decision re 2012. It may be that yes we want a Scottish team but no we won't be ready for 2012 but we will be ready for 2016 building on the success of Glasgow 2014.
293

Yeah1,

25/08/2008 12:14:13
#349

"Chris Hoy is clearly using his sporting celebrity status to make a political statement (otherwise nobody could care less what he says about anything). The fact that he can earn gold medals in a sport does not make him an expert in the whole Olympic Games or politics."

You clearly are retarded. He is not making a 'political statement' he is talking about SPORTS, SPORTING facilities and the Olympics.

Where on earth does he have any comment whatsoever about politics? Show me a quote from him where he even mentions anything political??

As to you last comment about him not being an 'expert' on the Olympics I would think he knows far more about sporting facilities and the GB team than Stewart Maxwell, Alex Salmond or any other politician, wouldn't you?
294

Yeah1,

25/08/2008 12:19:06
#352

"Costa rica is made up entirely of US citizens, hardly an Independent country is it ?"

You are getting Costa Rica mixed up with PUERTO RICO - perhaps you should get a bit of basic information about geography before commenting in future?

295

John S,

25/08/2008 12:21:09
Come on let the marvellous and very generous English people enjoy their Olympic games in 2012.
296

Yeah1,

25/08/2008 12:21:15
If Alex Salmond and the SNP care so much about Scottish athletes and the future of Scottish sports why are they standing by and letting the velodrome in Edinburgh be destroyed?

Why doesn't Salmond intervene and stop his SNP councillors from knocking it down? Surely this would show his support for Scottish athletes far more than his 'official reception' for the Scottish Olympians and his attempts to get reflected glory from their achievements?

Perhaps some SNP supporters could answer my above questions, you seem to be steadfastly ignoring them up to now, is that because they show Salmond does not really care about Scottish sports?
297

It's life but not as we know it,

25/08/2008 12:21:35
#354. I see you only have the language of personal insults to use against me; I will not stoop to your level.

I quote the article: "ALEX Salmond's hopes of creating a Scottish Olympic team suffered a major setback yesterday when the triple gold medallist Chris Hoy derided the plan as "ridiculous".

and "The intervention of someone of Hoy's standing in the debate about Scotland's future in the Olympics is a serious blow to Mr Salmond's drive to create a separate Scottish team."

Now if that isn't involving yourself in national politics I don't know what is. Hoy is simply using his sporting celebrity status to politically grandstand.
298

Shuggie In London,

South of the River 25/08/2008 12:22:21
Headlines you will never read

- Swedes acknowledge that destruction of fishing industry was "worth it".

- Switzerland's reckless foreign policy keeps Bern today on Red Alert.

- Malta votes to return to Westminster control, confirming it's too small to run its own affairs.

- Public on streets of Reykjavik "ambivalent" to the fact population levels barely changed in 50 years.

- Belgian Culture, Media and Sports Spokesman applauds decision that only French Football Games will be guaranteed coverage.

- Leaked Dublin memo reveals failing economic policies "not fit for purpose".

- Howard's government confirm that they will cede all powers back to London as the family ties that link the UK and his country make it impossible for an Australian State to function.

- Oslo forced to admit economy "better run" by Stockholm.

- Luxembourg withdraws EU Commissioner citing "French representation lets them punch above their weight".

- Spanish Agriculture and Fisheries Minister locked out of key negotiations, Madrid Government heralds success and dividend of their successful policy on EU relations.

- Miss Norway says she doesn't want Norway to be independent.

- Tallinn: Cabinet welcomes new fleet of Russian WMDs docked on Estonian shores.

- Latvians 'jubilant' at anniversary of nation's loss of sovereignty and independence!

- United Arab Emirates confirms it's the "only country, bar Nigeria to discover oil and get poorer"

- Prague: Defence Minister solemnly confirms it will once again send Slovak regiments back to war.

- Copenhagen: Energy minister set to announce new generation of nuclear power stations in Iceland.

- Catalans refuse to accept the bogey of fiscal autonomy!

- Finland's independent aspirations based on "flimsiest of economic grounds".

- Vilnius- special issue coins to be proudly displayed by the President commemorating the incorporation of Lithuania into the USSR.

- Belorussian Olympic athletes to compete under
299

LondonCalling,

25/08/2008 12:23:27
Quote Brian Hill: "Can we afford it? Where would the money come from?"

No doubt it would come from England.
300

Shuggie In London,

South of the River 25/08/2008 12:23:40
Russian flag in 2012 – Public overjoyed.

- Liechtenstein concedes that Berlin's Immigration Policy "suits them better".

- Swiss Government fails to deliver on UN living standards landing them at 18th as revealed on index of wealthiest nations.

- People of Montenegro 'ecstatic' at being denied democratic referendum – Tens of thousands rejoice.

……These are all obviously ridiculous but this is what the British media and London based political parties tell us in Scotland every single day.

301

Alan B,

25/08/2008 12:24:00
#347 Yeah1

So you post something repeatedly. It is then pointed out to you that you were wrong. But then fail to admit you were wrong. And secondly that it undermines your whole argument, regarding the participation of a GB football team.

You still fail to answer whether given that you were wrong, whether you would be prepared to jeopardize the scottish football team. (to push your union extremism).
302

I.Wright,

Glasgow 25/08/2008 12:25:19
"One step at a time. Would we like a Scottish team in the Olympics? We would?"

No actually. At least the sportsmen and women (and this is about sport, right? Not politics?) have clearly said that being part of an all British team is their preference because it allows them access to a far wider range of facilities, trainers and all the other specialist requirements than they would get in Scotland alone. But you know better than the sports people, I suppose? Has it ever occurred to you that to reach world level in any sport, your priorities are the best training facilities and trainers, not whether your team is labelled Scottish or British. Why do you think that everyone is as obsessed with constitutional status as you are? It's the same in areas like the arts. Why do so many of our musicians go to train in London (or Paris or New York)? Because they want the best. Why would they stay at home if it's not the best? You and other Nats maintain that an independent Scotland would be able to build the best facilities, hire the best trainers, etc. Even if that is the case - and many small nations have a very large list of things that they would like to but can't afford - why can't you accept that it's not going to happen UNTIL WE ARE INDEPENDENT. And you haven't persuaded us to vote for that yet, so get real. Once you've persuaded us, fine. Until then, let our sports people continue to excell in the British team, taking advantage of British facilities wherever they may be.

303

Yeah1,

25/08/2008 12:26:57
#363

As I have already said I will respond to your comments, when you or another SNP supporter answers my questions about why Salmond is allowing the velodrome to be destroyed?

And no I'm not a 'unionist extremist', not sure where you get that idea from? Just because I think Salmond is a hypocrit and support the idea of a GB football team at 2012 doesn't make me a unionist.
304

Yeah1,

25/08/2008 12:29:57
#359

I quote the article: "ALEX Salmond's hopes of creating a Scottish Olympic team suffered a major setback yesterday when the triple gold medallist Chris Hoy derided the plan as "ridiculous".

and "The intervention of someone of Hoy's standing in the debate about Scotland's future in the Olympics is a serious blow to Mr Salmond's drive to create a separate Scottish team."

Now if that isn't involving yourself in national politics I don't know what is. "Hoy is simply using his sporting celebrity status to politically grandstand."

No, Hoy is commenting on the Olympics and whether there should be a Scottish or GB team. As he is a member of the GB team he is perfectly entitled to comment on that.

If Salmond is allowed to talk about the Olympics and a Scottish Olympic team even though it is nothing to do with him then surely an athlete who is actually part of the Olympic team is far more entitled to comment on the same issue?
305

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 25/08/2008 12:32:00
Should Scotland be accorded separate Olympic status, it would result in Team GB being to all intents and purposes Team England & Wales, as Northern Irish have freedom to compete for Ireland. The Isle of Man, Channel Islands etc are independent of the UK yet their athletes compete as GB.

A lot depends on whether the Scottish Government is prepared to put its money where its mouth is and give proper backing to our elite sportsmen/women wherever they train in the world. This is not per se a debate about nationalism but about athletes; the elite who find the need to be in serious competition with other elite i.e. Brithish athletes, and those lesser athletes who are presently denied the opportunity to compete at the highest level internationally and do not have the motivation because at present they feel they will not be picked for the British team but would get into a Scottish team. As far as I see it, it is extending the opportunity to the greatest number of athletes that is important, to get the best from them, not just providing for the top-flight medal winners, however inspirational they may be.
306

LondonCalling,

25/08/2008 12:35:33
The Olympics is a red herring. An independent Scotland would of course have its own Olympic team and that is the big issue that you Scots should be putting right.

You've got your own parliament, the SNP in power, get on with it.

We'd fight for the same here but the English don't have much say in their own destiny. Not even our own parliament, just a Scottish PM who is making a mess of someone else's country.

As an Englishman I pay taxes so that students in Scotland can go to University for free, while having to pay for my own son to study in England.

No wonder 68% of English people want independence from Scotland.
307

Yeah1,

25/08/2008 12:37:14
#359

"Hoy is simply using his sporting celebrity status to politically grandstand."

You would have a valid argument if Hoy had said something like 'Scotland should remain within the Union and should not become an independent country'.

However all his comments are actually about the Olympic team and sporting facilities, so you are clearly completely incorrect to state that he has no right to talk about these issues.

Why should a politician such as Salmond, who has nothing to do with the Olympics, be entitled to comment on these issues whereas an actual Olympic athlete is not allowed to?

I'm sure if Chris Hoy had agreed with Salmond and said 'we should have a Scottish Olympic team' you would not be complaining about him making 'political' statements anyway...
308

Suomi,

Salo,Finland 25/08/2008 12:39:00
I have lost a great deal of respect for Hoy.It is not about numbers of medals but the pleasure of watching your nation compete with other nations on the world stage.Hoy's attitude seems to indicate that the Olympics are are only about the selfish personal gratification of athletes.

I watched the final of the Javelin competition where Norway won Gold,Latvia won Silver and Finland won bronze.There were two other Finns in the final stages who had a realistic chance of a medal.What struck me was the pride of my Finniash wife in seeing her nation compete on the international stage and the joy of the Latvian and Norwegian fans.I felt somewhat jeaulous since those nations were visible,while Scotland is the invisable nation at the Olympics.I suspect that the Latvians felt the same when they were forced to compete as a region of the Soviet Union,in past Olympics. I congratulate Hoy for winning 3 gold medals,but I do not experience the same amount of pleasure,as the Finns,Norwegians and Latvian people when their nation has some success,and more importantly,are visible.

Hoy also assumes that just because,in the past,facilities have not existed to promote the success
of our competitors,that it will always be so.There is no reason why an independant Scottish government could not target resources to support success in sport,should they wish to do so.I think that several small countries have done this and their medal total in proportion to their population is greater than GB.However,as I have stated,numbers of medals are not necessarily the most important outcome from competing in sport,on an international stage.I think we will see the evidence of that when the Commonwealth Games come to Glasgow,and Scotland is allowed to compete as Scotland,alongside other nations.
309

I.Wright,

Glasgow 25/08/2008 12:40:21
Why does anybody think that Chris Hoy or other Scottish sportsmen and women could care less about the independence argument? That's the problem that the Nats have. They don't appreciate that many (most?) people don't care that Scotland is part of the UK and for most people the constitutional status of Scotland is not something they think about that much. The sort of Nats who post here were probably scandalised to see Hoy carrying the union flag in the closing ceremony, but in reality he was probably just proud to be representing his team which happens to be the British team. By speaking out, he's not entering politics because for him sport is about excellence at all costs - and that means he wants above all to be part of a team that allows him all the facilities and training he needs to win. All the rest is irrelevant to him - why don't the nats get that?
310

European Scot,

25/08/2008 12:42:47
366 Yeah1

" If Salmond is allowed to talk about the Olympics and a Scottish Olympic team even though it is nothing to do with him ......... ? "

The First Minister of Scotland talking about a Scottish Olympic team.
Nothing to do with him ?
Really ?
311

Sedov,

Scotland 25/08/2008 12:44:16
Well said Chris, I am sure that he speaks for the majority of Scots. Salmond, like the opportunist that he is ( like most politicians) will try to use Hoy in an attempt to inject more of the divisive poison of nationalism on to the Scottish nation - Hoy will not have it of course -so another gold medal to you my son.


312

Liz,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 12:44:41
#349
I bet you would have welcomed his 'political statement' if it had been something you had wanted to here.
I love the fact all you Nats are getting so hot and bothered about this whole issue.

Whenever that overrated and over the hill actor Sean Connery spouts some rubbish (which is usually politically motivated) you are all slavering over how great he is and a "real Scot" when in reality his views should count no more or less than Chris Hoys.
313

Liz,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 12:46:45
#375 sorry that should be 'hear' not 'here' :)
314

Andra, Dundee,

25/08/2008 12:47:09
#375
I'd say a good bit less since he has lived over 3000 miles away for the past 30 years.
315

I.Wright,

Glasgow 25/08/2008 12:47:30
"I have lost a great deal of respect for Hoy.It is not about numbers of medals but the pleasure of watching your nation compete with other nations on the world stage."

You've lost a great deal of respect for him, have you? Well how sad for you. And how dare you presume to criticise someone who has proved himself the best in the world at his sport because he hasn't made some stupid political point about being Scottish and not British. If you don't understand what motivates a sportsman to be the best, you shouldn't even be posting on this subject.

"I congratulate Hoy for winning 3 gold medals,but I do not experience the same amount of pleasure,as the Finns,Norwegians and Latvian people when their nation has some success,and more importantly,are visible."

Well tough. Do you think he would care what the hell you think? If you can't get pleasure from seeing a sporting hero beat the world because you have some twisted little hangup about how he views his nationality (and how exactly do you know anyway?) then you need to get out more.
316

obeone,

25/08/2008 12:49:13
Another reason athletes will oppose a Scottish team is in the future commercial spin offs they can enjoy as a reward for years of training and medals. Chris Hoy is a GB national hero and will be appearing in lucrative adverts and promotions very soon. As a Scots national hero, who'd barely be known anywhere else, his prospects are much slimmer. Waving the Scottish flag might be nice but it doesn't pay as well as the UK flag.
317

Yeah1,

25/08/2008 12:49:34
#373

"If Salmond is allowed to talk about the Olympics and a Scottish Olympic team even though it is nothing to do with him ......... ? "

The First Minister of Scotland talking about a Scottish Olympic team. Nothing to do with him? Really?"

You have taken my quote out of context. As I said - if Alex Salmond is entitled to discuss something that is nothing to do with him (i.e. he doesn't compete in the Olympics, he doesn't decide whether Scotland should have an Olympic team or not etc) then why shouldn't an actual Olympic athlete be entitled to discuss the same thing?

Do you agree with the other poster that Chris Hoy has no right to discuss these matters?
318

JG,

Fife 25/08/2008 12:49:53
#375 Liz
Correct! And if Scotland ever did become independent Shir Sean would find a reason not to come back, despite what he says.

I have more confidence in the comments made by a sportsman about facilites then a self-seeking politician!
319

Calummac,

25/08/2008 12:51:10
Hoy would want to remember that the Olympics is meant to be for the people and not just for him to adorn himself in gold.

He might also want to remember that it is the taxpayer that is paying for his galavanting around the world on his bike.

If Hoy wants to cry every time he hears a song about crushing his own country then so be it, but a Scottish kid seeing the Saltire rather than the Butchers Apron being hoisted would be more inspired.
320

Andra, Dundee,

25/08/2008 12:53:29
#371 Suomi
I'm a Scot and am very proud of Hoy.
But you should have seen me screaming at the telly when the lass fell off her bike in the BMX final - and I've no idea where in the UK she came from - that was a travesty - I look forward to seeing her again in 2012.
I was also delighted with the Jamaican sprinters. Sport is not just about national borders - and as seem in Beijing, the co-operation of Scots within Team GB can reap more reward than nationalist ideology.
321

,

25/08/2008 12:54:17
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
322

dido-bendigo,

Scotland 25/08/2008 12:55:07
So we can take it that when 'St Alex of the Renewables' entertains these remarkable athletes at Edinburgh Castle, the bunch of spite speaking political numpties scattered throughout the above commentators will be lining up to boo a terrifically brilliant Scottish cyclist? That bodes well for a small nation 'pulling together'!

Also, I do wish such people would learn to spell, it really gives the general public the wrong idea about the values of the Scottish education system.
323

Andra, Dundee,

25/08/2008 12:55:49
#379 obeone
That is what is called the Union dividend.
324

,

25/08/2008 12:56:04
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
325

big is the new small,

scotland 25/08/2008 12:57:26
Yeah1
The decision to destroy the velodrome is a council decision - a council which isn't run by the SNP. Once it's referred to the Scottish government then the SNP will be able to comment on it. As it isn't anything to do with them at the moment then they can't discuss it.

Now, will you answer the various people on the list who are questionning the truth in your previous statement about what Blatter said in March about the football teams of the four home nations being in jeapordy if GB enter a team at London2012?

www.NoTeamGB.com
326

Yeah1,

25/08/2008 12:57:41
#385

"Hoy is not representative of the Scottish people, he has a view of the minority"

And again, where is your proof? Do you have an opinion poll to prove what you say, or any other evidence whatsoever that it is a fact and not just your own opinion?

If you state something as fact please provide the evidence to back it up.
327

Dublin Don,

25/08/2008 12:59:45
Living in Ireland I am prone to making comparisons between Ireland and Scotland . They are generally of a par in terms of football/rugby etc but their Olympic team is often not successful. If Scotland had a separate team there would be a possiblilty of entire tournaments passing without a single medal.
328

JG,

Fife 25/08/2008 13:00:01
#382 Caummac
Are you right enough? Hoy worked hard for his medals and I'm sure he's well aware where the money came from. I know that "God save the Queen" original version has the bit in about 'rebellious Scots to crush" but they dropped that verse (Wade wasn't too successful in crushing Scots anyway and got sacked!). Also the whole point about this story is that there are no facilities in Scotland so if Hoy had stayed he wouldn't have WON any medals.
329

Indy Evolution,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 13:01:30
The Scotsman always seems to revel in running these articles. Its like its saying "look Scotland you think you can be nation and survive in the world but you can't. You need to be part of something bigger. Cumon now lets jut get you all voting Labour. Good people. Thats it The good old familiar Scotsman knows best".

Did anyone listen to the phone in on Radio Scotland? They were saying the same thing. The guy that was talking about the surveys and saying that the Scots that wanted Scotland to be in charge of her own affairs and decisions were in the minority. Then 85% of the callers proceeded to tell them that they felt Scotland should start standing up for itself more in the world. We have our Parliament, every one is getting their self confidence back, we have a government looking out for us, we have a hell of lot of resources etc etc.

No one is listening to the same old tired, negative put downs from the Scottish media any more. It worked for a long time. But in my opinion Scots are getting really tired of it now. We all know we can do just fine in the world and no amount of scare mongering is now going to work. More than anything else Scotland is going vote for Independence because we are being told by the Scotsman and the Scottish media that we can't function without the union. It seems to me that we would funtion much better without it.

Just one last quick point. I read a post of Traquairs the other day. A list of all the billions spent in London. Hundreds of billions on airport terminals, runways, docklands roads, train terminals, connecting roads, rain connections. The figures were astonishing. Scotland is a larger oil producer than Kuwait and the thing that really gets me... and I can't stop thinking about it, is that we can't get one road dual carridgeway-ed from Perth to Inverness. Its needed done for decades. One of the most dangerous roads in Britian. Many, many lives lost. We are resource rich and we can't just get that one bit of road done
330

Yeah1,

25/08/2008 13:02:32
#390

"The decision to destroy the velodrome is a council decision - a council which isn't run by the SNP. Once it's referred to the Scottish government then the SNP will be able to comment on it. As it isn't anything to do with them at the moment then they can't discuss it."

Edinburgh Council is run by a lib dem/SNP coalition...

Salmond could easily 'call in' the velodrome decision, just as he 'called in' the decision over the Donald Trump development.

Or does he care more about appeasing big business Americans than the future of Scottish athletes?

I will answer the query about the GB team when you admit your mistake about Edinburgh Council not being run by the SNP.
331

Number 6,

Germany 25/08/2008 13:02:59
Who was that squash numpty that defected to Englandshire for the money, ex world champ I believe.

Where is he now ?
332

Hope for Scotland,

Coaltown of Wemyss 25/08/2008 13:04:17
As emailed to The Scotsman:

Dear Hamish and Roger

As a former journalist and occasional contributor to The Scotsman, I feel compelled to question your story in today's paper regarding Chris Hoy's statement re a Scottish team competing in future Olympics.

Your headline is terribly misleading - and I hope this has been taken up with the appropriate sub-editor.

While Stewart Maxwell said "a Scottish team at the Olympics is the future" (key words here "the future", not necessarily 2012), Chris Hoy, by your own paper's admission, said, "to call for a Scottish Olympic team at this stage is ridiculous".

How can you go from "at this stage" to a headline of "Scottish team in Olympics would be "ridiculous"?

Your headline suggests Hoy believes a Scottish team at any Olympics would, by definition, be ridiculous. However, he has clearly said nothing of the sort. He clearly believes a Scottish Olympic team "at this stage" is ridiculous.

Why did you not therefore write a story about Hoy calling for more funding for Scottish sports facilities if we are to have a Scottish Olympic team - as Mr Maxwell said - in the future?

Please, please tell me this was a subbing error re the headline.

Naive that may be...
333

Hamish Scott,

25/08/2008 13:04:24
"Chris Hoy: Scottish team in Olympics would be 'ridiculous'"

Not true - not if you read the article rather than the misleading headline. In the article itself Chris Hoy rules out a Scottish Olympics team 'at this stage', and in specific regard to cycling, because of the lack of facilities in Scotland. Ask Chris Hoy again in 2014 when we have a new National Velodrome in Glasgow for the Commonwealth Games.
334

Indy Evolution,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 13:04:26
Cont/-

It has kept we awake at night the last few days. And I don't blame the Scottish Government. We get our money from Westminister and it is mostly already allocated for running the countries services. I just can't help thinking that the road, if it had been anywhere in England, it would just have been done. Just like that. How can we realise our potential as a country if everyone driving to the North of Scotland (or south from Edinburgh to England) has to drive at 40 miles an hour behind a Tesco lorry. Unionism for Scotland means doing 40 behind a Tesco Lorry - and the Tesco lorry is Westminster.
335

It's life but not as we know it,

25/08/2008 13:05:14
#387 You say, "The intervention of someone of Hoy's standing in the debate about Scotland's future in the Olympics is a serious blow to Mr Salmond's drive to create a separate Scottish team."


But then you say, "the bunch of spite speaking political numpties scattered throughout the above commentators".

I put it to you that they cannot be scattered "throughout" the commentators - as that would suggest some kind of bodily invasion - but what you in fact meant to write was "scattered among".
336

The Tin Man,

25/08/2008 13:05:19
TeamScotland would do very well if 'Holding a Grudge' was an Olympic sport.
337

Alan B,

25/08/2008 13:08:14
#365 Yeah1

So you argue for a GB football team telling us all Blatter fifas president said it would not jeoradize scotlands football teams status. It is pointed out that is wrong. But you still support a GB olympic football team. I take it from that you do not think scotland should have its own football team.

Your posts are a bit weird as you agreed with me earlier on that football and the olympics do not really mix anyway and football should not be part of the olympics.

I have not personally commented on the velodrome as I know little about it or the issues surrounding it. Try not to comment when i know little about something. From the little I know it has been allowed to be run down over a number of years. A new velodrome is being built for the glasgow commonwealth games.

What i would say it that scotland (and the uk) should do alot more to increase sports participation. All governments have been poor in this regard (both north and south of the border). While the snp seem to have backtracked on their PE participation i would have supported lengthening the shool day to about 4:30 and allowing an hr and half sport per day. Scotlands facilities are poor for sport and there seems little organisation to increase participation. There are alot of contributing factors.

338

The Strategist,

25/08/2008 13:09:52
Good grief... All this fuss about a bloke on a bike. Frankly, even as an SNP supporter and someone who strongly supports Scottish independence I can't really get remotely excited by what Chris Hoy says.

There are much more important things to worry about than the 2012 Olympics. For starters, the economy is in a mess and getting worse. Brown can put on all the Olympic games he wants but nothing can disguise his economic incompetence.
339

The Tin Man,

25/08/2008 13:10:19
...There appear to be quite a few potential Olympians amoungst the commentators on this thread...
340

Number 6,

Germany 25/08/2008 13:12:23
#397 Luckily, with each new generation of voters, we are no longer walking zombie like, on mass, into the arms of the liebour party. Nor do the majority of people in Scotland honestly believe we are better off in the "Union". One look at the englandshire media shows the contempt they hold us in. The "we cannae dae it mantra" is picking up fewer and fewer converts. Of course, the majority of die hard unionistas are unable to react to this surge in self determination.They are also in denial about the way their english heros treat them. They simply lack the courage and self belief, wiped out by years of labour "rule" to think for themselves. In which other country in the entire world would you see such a demonstation of spineless lack of self belief and self loathing.

THAT is "Scotland's shame".
341

Dublin Don,

25/08/2008 13:12:48
I think the "grudging" and "moaning" mentioned in postings above are all understandable side effects of an unhealthy national pyshce induced by union with a bigger country.
342

Andrew, Peebles,

25/08/2008 13:13:19
The more these rabid Nat's open their mouths, the less likely an independant Scotland is.

Keep it coming.
343

stellarossa,

Cincinnati, Ohio, USA 25/08/2008 13:14:55
I would rather we have 3 people in our Scottish Olympic Team than be in a British team of a few hundred.
344

Yeah1,

25/08/2008 13:15:24
#405

"Your posts are a bit weird as you agreed with me earlier on that football and the olympics do not really mix anyway and football should not be part of the olympics."

Yes football shouldn't be part of the Olympics, but since it is part of it they might as well have a GB team in 2012.

"But you still support a GB olympic football team. I take it from that you do not think scotland should have its own football team."

There were GB olympic football teams in previous tournaments, as recently as 1960, and that didn't jeopardise the Scottish team did it?
345

JG,

Fife 25/08/2008 13:19:36
#411 stellarosa
Aye, but you're just scared the GB relay team beats the US again (providing neither team drops the baton, of course!)
346

Yeah1,

25/08/2008 13:19:40
#411

"I would rather we have 3 people in our Scottish Olympic Team than be in a British team of a few hundred."

Why does it bother an American whether Scotland has an Olympic team or not? Do you feel entitled to comment on this issue because your great-great-great grandfather emigrated from Scotland?

If you are so proud of Scotland why don't you live here?
347

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 25/08/2008 13:20:05
So just to get my head around this: The supporters of Chris Hoy's comments are basically saying that (as an analogy) a council street sweeper is an authority on council policy simply because he works for them?
348

Green eyed monster,

25/08/2008 13:20:34
So Chris Hoy is a 'traitor' because he lives in England. Chris Hoy is 'a self-hating Scot', a 'gibbering idiot' because he trains in Manchester. Chris Hoy 'sold out his country' because he 'emigrated'.

Now, Nats, replace the name Chris Hoy with SEAN CONNERY.
349

big is the new small,

25/08/2008 13:21:25
Yeah1
You're simply bluster, bluff and indecision. Sounds just like another GB..........

The fact remains that the SNP government aren't involved in the velodrome so they can't comment on it. I don't expect you to understand that. Just like I don't expect you to apologise for your lying earlier on about what Sepp Blatter said.

www.NoTeamGB.com
350

JG,

Fife 25/08/2008 13:23:03
#415
Not a great analogy, but the council street sweeper would be more expert on cleansing matters as Chris Hoy would be on sporting matters.
351

Yeah1,

25/08/2008 13:23:46
#415

So let me get my head around what you are saying:

A politician who is nothing to do with the Olympics, who has never competed in the Olympics, and who has no say in any Olympic issues is allowed to comment on these issues, but an Olympic athlete is not?
352

McMillar,

Fife 25/08/2008 13:25:52
Well said Hoy. I’m a big fan of the way the SNP have been running things but this is just a pointless distraction. Team GB is much better and we should also support a GB football team for 2012.
353

PL,

25/08/2008 13:27:08
"Scotland's greatest-ever Olympian said he wouldn't have "three gold medals hanging round my neck" if he had not been part of Team GB."

Is anyone seriously arguing that small nations should cede their sporting independence so that individuals can win medals?! Presumably not. So this sportsman's solipsistic, dunce-like logic applies only to Scotland, apparently.
If, hypothetically, Austria had been subsumed into Germany, an Austrian cyclist might make such remarks: but the performance of sportsmen is not an argument against the sporting independence of Austria.
The fact that a sportsman who achieves physical excellence (but one who is a dunce in the political arena) voices dunce-like opinions does not elevate them to arguments of substance. That the Scotsman chooses to treat them thus reveals the desperation of the Unionist cause. My criticism in the preceding sentence -- if I had read it a few years ago -- would have seemed like nationalist sniping. But, seriously, can anyone -- nationalist or unionist -- dispute the sheer, risible desperation of the Unionists in 2008? Elevating the transparently dunce-like to a political intervention which warrants front-page coverage!!
354

Yeah1,

25/08/2008 13:27:37
#418

"The fact remains that the SNP government aren't involved in the velodrome so they can't comment on it. I don't expect you to understand that. Just like I don't expect you to apologise for your lying earlier on about what Sepp Blatter said."

You can hardly accuse someone else of lying when you yourself lied about the SNP not running Edinburgh Council can you? Why don't you apologise for lying about that?

As to the velodrome - Salmond can easily tell his SNP councillors to stop its destruction, or 'call in' the decision like he did with the Trump development.

Does he care more about big business Americans than he does about the future of Scottish athletes?
355

Alan B,

25/08/2008 13:27:56
#Yeah1

We know that the uk has not been entering a football team because the home nations think it could jeopardize our separate nation status.

We know that many countries are pushing for our special status to be ended.

We know the vice president of fifa is pushing this.

We know the president of fifa has warned us over this.

Why bury our heads in the sand and pretent it might not jeopardize our national football teams?

The fact that you hope that it would not put in jeopardy our national football teams does not help with the reality of the situation. Fifa is corrupt and all about politics.

The fact that 50yrs ago a GB football team did not cause the demise of our national football teams is hardly an argument for what would happen today. We did not continue down that road because we knew what might happen. Why take the risk?

From a pratical point of view aswell, 2012 will be the year of the euros. Olympic football overlaps with the football season and euro club tournaments.

I have no problem with a GB olympic team just think that there is no reason to involve ourselves with this. I also think it will start causing unnecessary resentment as football tends to put a different complection on things.

356

The Tin Man,

25/08/2008 13:30:26
... Let the bile and nonsense continue!....
357

Alan B,

25/08/2008 13:30:52
#McMillar

Given that even fifa president has warned that a GB football team could have repercussions on having a scottish national football team along with national football teams for the other home nations why would you want to jeopardize this?

I take you do not want scotland to have its own football team and you are happy to jeopardize the preferential treatment the home nations get within fifa.
358

Alan B,

25/08/2008 13:33:11
#sm753

"Would a hypothetical football "Team GB" have any non-English players in it on merit anyway?"

Depends on the players in 2012. Olympic football is under 23 so few players around now will be eligble.
359

Indy Evolution,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 13:33:35
409 "grudging" and "moaning"

I certainly grudge and moan at Westminster not upgrading some of Scotlands roads - it has been their responsibility to do this. Especially Perth to Inverness. And to drive by Motorway from Scotlands capital city to a neighbouring country I have to take a massive detour to Glasgow. I suspect not many capital cities in Europe would be like that. All the road deaths are unnecessary.

If Westminster held Scotlands concerns in any regard it would have been done long ago. But our MPs at Wesminster don't (or don't want to) have enough influence to do anything. With control over our own affairs, if its not done then I'll be moaning at Hollyrood - but I suspect that it would be done pretty sharpish.
360

JG,

Fife 25/08/2008 13:36:28
#422 PL
"The fact that a sportsman who achieves physical excellence (but one who is a dunce in the political arena) voices dunce-like opinions does not elevate them to arguments of substance."

I'll turn your statement right back at you; "The fact that a POLITICIAN who achieves POLITICAL excellence (but one who is a dunce in the SPORTING arena) voices dunce-like opinions does not elevate them to arguments of substance."
361

It's life but not as we know it,

25/08/2008 13:36:53
#422 "Scotland's greatest-ever Olympian said he wouldn't have "three gold medals hanging round my neck" if he had not been part of Team GB."

May I take this further from what you've said and suggest that selfish egoists who just want the best personal chance for medals - and to hell with their own country (as Chris Hoy appears to believe) - go one further than Team GB and campaign instead for a Team Europe? Then they can have every possible facility and be sure of hundreds of medals and "I'm better than you" glory.
362

Yeah1,

25/08/2008 13:37:30
#429

"I certainly grudge and moan at Westminster not upgrading some of Scotlands roads - it has been their responsibility to do this."

Its the Scottish government who are responsible for Scotland's roads, not Westminster.
363

King Brood,

Dunedin 25/08/2008 13:38:01
When I was a younger sportsman the thought of representing Scotland at an Olympic Games would definately have inspired me more than the thought of representing 'Team GB'. Britain is not great.
364

Maurice the Dolphin,

Off the Coast 25/08/2008 13:39:23
Loving the same Nationalists on here who applauded Chris Hoy over the last few weeks to suddently do a u-turn and decry him now. (Bit of an SNP trait though eh?)

Have to chuckle at Salmond talk about sports anyway.

The only bit of sport he's partaken in in the last 20 years is wear the sports jacket he wore the other day.

Alex Salmond could always try entering the curry munching competition.

Matter of interest. Have the klunking daleks at SNP HQ banned the Scottish members of team GB from wearing their team GB gear for Uncle Eck's photo opportunity on Wednesday? Team GB uniform to be replaced with Fran & Anna tartan for photo opportunity.
365

McMillar,

Fife 25/08/2008 13:41:04
#427 Alan B – Nope never said that and don’t agree with the statement. Team GB is how we are represented at the Olympics and if they are going to have football as event we should take the chance to run it that way once every 4 years. I’d rather football was not an Olympic event but it currently is……I’d still be in favour of us retaining independent status for Fifa events. Football has a lot of petty politics but this can’t be too hard to overcome.
366

Alan B,

25/08/2008 13:42:24
#433 Yeah1

"Its the Scottish government who are responsible for Scotland's roads, not Westminster."

Only since devolution. When the M6 motorway went as far as Carlise and not scotland that situation was due to westminster.

That scotland has no complete motorway between Glasgow and Edinburgh has only been responbility of sp since devolution. Ditto for other roads like A9.

367

JG,

Fife 25/08/2008 13:43:35
#434 King Brood
Did you make it? If not, maybe if you'd had the right facilities or travelled to England...... oh no, you couldn't have done that - YOU'D HAVE BEEN A TRAITOR!
368

Indy Evolution,

25/08/2008 13:44:05
"Its the Scottish government who are responsible for