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Confusion to reign in Scottish classrooms over radical reforms



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Published Date: 29 May 2008
A NEW school curriculum that aims to reinstate Scotland's reputation as a centre for world-class education is set to be a disaster, the Scottish Government was warned yesterday.
Just three months away from being taught in thousands of classrooms, the Curriculum for Excellence is desperately underfunded and at risk of being lost in a haze of vagueness and ignorance, according to teachers. And, although it has been four years in the making, both parents and teaching staff say they are in the dark about how children's experience of the classroom will change.

Experts say it means a golden opportunity to improve education standards has been lost, as teachers are almost certain to stick to using last year's curriculum.

Teachers and parents' groups are making a last-ditch demand for detailed information on the curriculum, which

is based on four "capacities" all children should aspire to become – successful learners, confident individuals, responsible citizens and effective contributors.

It has been drawn up by civil servants and council and teacher representatives, as well as Scotland's top education experts – but teachers say it is nothing new, as they already work towards its four aims.

The last of seven documents, known as draft outcomes, on how each subject will be taught was published yesterday, on religious and moral education.

However, each brief document has been beset by vague language and lofty idealism rather than specific details.

In addition, teachers' unions are united in saying that, without investment in training and textbooks, the curriculum, due in schools from August, could fail. Some independent schools say they will not implement it in full next year because it is "not ready". They cannot be legally compelled to introduce it as Scotland does not have a statutory curriculum, as in England.

David Eaglesham, the general secretary of the Scottish Secondary Teachers' Association, said he doubted the curriculum could live up to its aims without financial input.

"It is almost inevitable to say it is the worst-resourced initiative we have ever had, because there is nothing there in the way of resources," he said.

"It is not that people don't want to do it, but if they don't know what they are doing or have the resources to implement it, it could be disastrous."

He said teachers would keep teaching the current curriculum if they didn't receive detailed guidance on how the new one should be taught. "We now have details on what skills the end product should deliver for pupils, but there is a world of difference between knowing what we are aiming for and knowing how to get there," he said.

He warned that the curriculum could be interpreted differently depending on authorities and individual teachers. "People are running about doing what seems best to them without any degree of co-ordination," he said.

Judith Gillespie, of the Scottish Parent Teacher Council, said: "The trouble with the Curriculum for Excellence is people don't really understand what it is about.

"If you ask parents in Craigmillar or Perth what they know about the Curriculum for Excellence, or the difference between formative and summative assessment or a cross-curricular approach, they will say they just want to know if their child is learning to read."

She said demands for more information had fallen on deaf ears. "In our discussions with government officials, we told them we need a leaflet to give to parents detailing what they will see that is different, but that never happened," she said.

David Gray, the headteacher of two prestigious independent schools, Stewart's Melville College and the Mary Erskine School in Edinburgh, told The Scotsman earlier this month his schools would not implement the new curriculum as it was "incomplete and still unclear". He said: "Teachers, on the whole, will continue doing what they have always done with the curriculum that is currently in place, until the new curriculum is ready – whenever that will be."

Scotland's biggest teaching union, the EIS, said it supported the curriculum's aspirations but had concerns on implementation. Ronnie Smith, its general secretary, said: "

The lack of resources and dedicated funding for delivery is an issue of huge concern. If money and resources are not put in place to support the Curriculum for Excellence, the programme will inevitably fail to deliver on its promise."

Bill McGregor, the general secretary of the Headteachers' Association of Scotland, said he agreed with both teachers' unions but believed his members and the teaching profession would not allow it to fail.

Fiona Hyslop, the education secretary, was confident the issues could be overcome and she revealed to The Scotsman that she would be chairing a meeting next month to explain how the curriculum would be taken forward. Teachers' representatives, youth and church groups, and college and university leaders would be among those invited.

She said: "This is a key stage of this important period of reform. Scotland's young people are looking to all of us – those who work within education and also parents, employers and others – to shape an education system that meets their needs in a world that is ever-changing."

More cash will be needed to deliver 18-pupil classes

EDUCATION leaders have warned the Scottish Government it could cost £422 million to meet its smaller class-sizes target.

The SNP Government has pledged to reduce class sizes to 18 pupils in the first three years of primary.

But critics have described the target as unaffordable and unachievable within the time scale of this parliament.

A report by the Association of Directors of Education (Ades) yesterday warned the cash is crucial to pay for the extra teachers and classrooms needed to reach the target. The body is also dismissive of how effectively smaller class sizes would improve pupil attainment.

Murdo Maciver, convener of the Ades resources committee, described it as "misleading" to suggest smaller class sizes as a simple way to better attainment.

He said: "There is no guarantee that more effective learning and teaching will be the result. Indeed, the research findings on the matter are inconsistent."

Ades is still collating information from councils, but revealed statistics from 22 of Scotland's 32 councils indicate that 2,173 extra teachers will be needed at a recurring cost of £62 million for salaries.

In addition, £360 million will be needed to create the extra classrooms required to implement the policy.

The Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, which represents councils, also questioned the potential success of the policy. Their written response to the education committee yesterday said: "It is still difficult to say with any certainty whether class-size reduction has long-lasting benefits to educational attainment."

Describing class-size reduction as a tool which "in the right circumstance" could contribute to better educational outcomes, Cosla stressed that the measure is not a "magic-bullet" solution.

However, the body pledged to show progress on the commitment.

Teachers have consistently stressed the educational benefits of smaller classes.

Scotland's biggest teaching union, the EIS, called for a maximum class size of 20 pupils across all ages and stages.

And Brian Cooklin, the president of the Headteachers' Association of Scotland, warned: "There will be authorities – and we have already seen some – where there will be major difficulties."

MSPs have also been listening to wider concerns about financial support for Scotland's schools.

Defending the budget settlement earlier, Ms Hyslop said: "We gave local government one of the biggest settlements that they have received and made sure there is enough capital to enable school buildings, including classrooms, for class-size reductions."

The Liberal Democrat education spokesman Jeremy Purvis described the SNP's funding allocation to cut class sizes as "indefensible".

In 1998 the Scottish Office announced funding to create a 30-pupil limit in primaries one to three.

Last year the previous administration set 25 as a new limit in primary one classes.

The SNP then promised class sizes of 18 in primary one to primary three when they came to power.

BACKGROUND

BACK in 2004, the Scottish Executive acknowledged that Scotland's children were falling behind in international league tables and promised a major revamp of school education.

With that came initial suggestions to scrap the outdated Standard grade exam – something that has since been announced by the Scottish Government.

A key aim of the Curriculum for Excellence was to move away from pupils being taught to pass tests and towards them being given the skills to articulate concepts and ideals. It was feared children were being educated in a tick-box culture, with multiple-choice exams and memory becoming more important than independent thinking.

Learning and Teaching Scotland, the government body responsible for the curriculum, says it should be implemented from August this year, with the opportunity for teachers to feed into a final version to be rolled out across every school in Scotland from the start of August 2009.

What every parent should know about the new curriculum

SOCIAL SCIENCES


SCOTTISH history will form a key part of social sciences under the new curriculum.

Until the SQA announced a compulsory Scottish element to the Higher exam, it was possible to pass without studying any Scottish history. Fiona Hyslop, the education secretary, said it was crucial for history to move from a succession of dates and dead monarchs to an education on the successes and failures in Scotland's past, so that young people understood where they had come from.

In general, social sciences will be divided under the main headings of people, past events and societies; people and their place and environment; and people in society, the economy and business.

LITERACY AND NUMERACY

FROM 2012, all school-leavers will have to sit literacy and numeracy tests at 16. This has been welcomed as addressing the problem of high numbers of Scottish teenagers being illiterate and innumerate.

In future, internet blogs, text messaging and film will all be regarded as acceptable forms of English, and lessons will attempt to tap into the kind of literature young people are enthusiastic about and already understand. In maths, children as young as six could study algebra, after research found the earlier mathematical theory is introduced, the greater comprehension in later life. Applying maths to real situations, such as using geometry to understand how the pyramids were built, will be used to enthuse pupils.

HEALTH AND WELLBEING

IN FUTURE, pupils will be expected to have two hours of physical activity a week. However, Maureen Watt, the schools minister, attracted scorn when she said that could include time spent walking to school. Under the health and wellbeing guidelines, pupils will also be taught how to read food labels. The move is being made in an attempt to tackle the growing obesity crisis. A report last year revealed that Scotland is the second-fattest developed nation in the world.

The Scottish Government hopes that educating children on what constitutes healthy food will help to drive the message home to parents. It is hoped that a change in emphasis will help children to make healthy living choices that will transform the health of future generations.

LANGUAGE

NOT just foreign languages, this subject will in future take in Scotland's own languages. For the first time, curriculum guidance has been created on Gaelic.

And Scots will become more accepted in the classroom. In future, teachers will no longer encourage children to drop words such as "aye" in favour of the "proper" English "yes". Great study of Scots literature will also be encouraged.

RELIGIOUS EDUCATION

RELIGIOUS and moral education guidance was the last of the subjects to be published by the Scottish Government.

In future, the subject will be expanded into fifth and sixth year. It is hoped the move will help to create more tolerance if youngsters are able to put themselves in the position of people of other faiths and religions. Separate guidance has been created for Catholic schools.

SCIENCE

SCIENCE lessons will become more relevant to children's lives, tapping into their own concerns, from recycling to their gardens. Rather than be asked to name five organisms, children will be asked to pick one and explain how it works within its own ecosystem.

Meanwhile, exams should change in biology, physics and chemistry, where multiple-choice tests have allowed some pupils to be lucky, rather than knowledgeable.

EXPRESSIVE ARTS

IN ART, pupils will be encouraged to develop their creative skills, with a view to it enhancing their adult lives. But the aspirational language does not help teachers to understand how this will be achieved in practice. It suggests suitable media, from traditional painting and sculpture to film, theatre and even jewellery making, but the only real guidance is the lofty aim to help children to become "confident individuals".

Q AND A: Your questions answered on the changes in our schools and what they are likely to mean for Scotland's pupils

What is the Curriculum for Excellence?


It is a whole new approach to school education allowing more flexibility for teachers and aiming to move away from a tick-box mentality, which teaches to the test rather than creating inquisitive minds.

Will I see a change in how my child is taught in primary schools?

Probably not. The cross-curricular emphasis will be easier to implement in primary schools because it is an approach already used there, where one teacher is teaching every subject.

Will my child's experience of secondary school change?

Yes. But it is likely to be imperceptible to pupils brought through the primary system.

More effort will be made to make lessons relevant to pupils' lives, hence the moves to use text messaging and internet blogs in literacy lessons.

The aim is for pupils to find lessons more engaging.

When will pupils make their subject choices at secondary?

Pupils will choose which subjects to specialise in at the end of third year.

Will my child still sit exams?

Yes. Standard grades will be scrapped eventually but will be replaced by new General grades.

Will the remaining exam system stay the same?

No. Highers will stay the gold standard, but Intermediates, which were brought in to bridge the widening gap between Standards and Highers, will also go.

New baccalaureates will be introduced in senior years in science and languages, and will comprise a mix of Highers plus an essay.

Will the Curriculum for Excellence change the way my child's exam papers are marked?

It is certainly true that the new General grade is bound to be created with the principles of the new curriculum in mind.

The Scottish Qualifications Authority, which runs exams, and, therefore, examiners, will probably want to see independent thought rewarded over feats of memory.

Will this affect my child's chance of getting to university?

The aim of the new curriculum is to better prepare children for further learning and the workplace so it should help not hinder advancement.

The full article contains 2472 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 28 May 2008 9:27 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Teaching
 
1

Conan the Librarian™,

29/05/2008 00:25:34
Four years in the making, yet the current Scots Government gets the blame in this rag's first paragraph. As always.
2

Hmm ...,

29/05/2008 00:36:32
... it "
is based on four "capacities" all children should aspire to become – successful learners, confident individuals, responsible citizens and effective contributors ... but teachers say it is nothing new, as they already work towards its four aims."

If that is the case, why is education currently in such a mess and in which respect will this new curriculum change all that?

Is this simply more of our money being thrown at education with no tangible result?
3

Jimmy the Pie,

29/05/2008 00:41:43
Confusion reigns in the Scottish press, you mean?
4

subrosa,

29/05/2008 01:29:05
From this article it appears the educationalists asked for this but now complain they don't know enough about it. Eh?
5

Suzi B,

29/05/2008 01:54:10
They wnt to use txt mssging as a part of ltrcy? Don't make me laugh! This is not a step forward surely? Is there poetry and skill in text messaging.
I could put my head in my hands and weep for the future of Scotland.
6

Grayzesdun,

29/05/2008 02:06:14
I worked in a Secondary in Edinburgh for 11 years, and my step-daughter has just finished her Standard Grades so I have a bit of an idea of what the current situation is.
To me, the idea of doing three years (instead of two) of 'general studies' (if I can call it that) before picking more specialised subjects will be a nightmare to the more able students. As it stands, to my personal knowledge, there are a large number of people (students and parents) who feel that S1 and S2 are almost a waste of two years of education (especially S1, I have to say) so to have a third year of the same can't possibly help.
Anyway, that's my opinion and I'm away to the LTS website to swot up on the new 'Curriculum for Excellence' as I've not really been involved in education (except for the kids!) for the last couple of years.
7

,

29/05/2008 06:26:22
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
8

Lance Boyle,

Linlithgow 29/05/2008 06:38:32
It just goes from bad to worse for the SNP. One day, it's class sizes, the next it's the curriculum. Who's meant to be in charge of education?
9

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 29/05/2008 07:12:19
Laudable aims but, as per usual, good practice appears to be falling between the cracks.

I don't see why every one is being taught maths when what the majority of us ever require is plain old arithmetic. Maths is for the brainiacs.

Are modern languages being taught at the nursery stages? If not, why not?

It's not clear.
10

SouthernSkye,

29/05/2008 07:25:32
#18 Conan
As well as Bury Free Press don't forget the illustrious organ known as the.....
http://www.stornowaygazette.co.uk
11

SouthernSkye,

29/05/2008 07:26:07
Damn...wake up me......off to find the right thread now, erm, bye !
12

W Smith,

Middle East 29/05/2008 07:40:41
So to improve literacy "text messaging...will be regarded as acceptable forms of English,.." then, eh?

I think Fiona Hyslop should be sacked immediately for being a complete moron!

Text message type English will not improve literacy.

It will encourge laziness and even more stupidity amongst Scottish kids who are already being outgunned in the academic side by Indian and Chinese kids.

Its time..........for Hyslop to clear her desk!

Fortunately the private schools in Scotland will not be part of the SNP's 'text message English is good for your kids' nonsense giving the middle class kids even more leverage in the job market.

Well done Salmond - anymore more bright ideas?

How about just texting Mugabe next time?
13

Iain fae Elgin,

29/05/2008 07:46:02
In days of old with its, presumably, incompetent education system, Scotland used to flood the world with engineers, scientists, designers and thinkers.

We've certainly allowed the politicians to c0ck that one up.
14

brownlie,

29/05/2008 07:46:37
W. Smith @ 12

Literacy quite good but context usual nonsense. Must do better, Smith!!

15

scottishcoffindodgerno1,

Tram City 29/05/2008 07:50:16
#8,if you read the article,it says 4 Years in the making.I don't remember us having a SNP government 4 Years Ago.
16

,

29/05/2008 07:51:14
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
17

Grahamski,

Falkirk 29/05/2008 07:55:51
Call me old fashioned but what about as a minimum ensuring that our kids come out of school literate and numerate?
It is worrying that some schools no longer have a history department. My kids' school doesn't offer German as a standard grade. Apparently there are less than twenty kids studying for higher French at their school.
What's going on?
18

,

29/05/2008 08:09:15
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
19

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 29/05/2008 08:14:13
Children at 16 should be able to read, write and count.
Is that not a good enough objective ?
20

paulr,

edinburgh 29/05/2008 08:15:29
Literacy and numeracy tests at 16??
Who's bright idea was that?
At 16 its already too late, Literacy and numeracy testing should be ongoing from day one.
If a kid can't read, write and count by the time he or she is 16, there is no chance of the school fixing the damage and there will be no incentive for them to try.
21

Dissector,

Stirling 29/05/2008 08:19:41
Another day, another policy in tatters - say what you will, the Slippery Fish & Friends have learnt a lot from Nu Liarbour in terms of policy proclamation, thread-bare details, lack of funding, spin and, finally, non-delivery. This follows the pattern of the Scottish Futures Trust (now admitted to be PPI in drag)with no substance nor detail; class sizes - to be focused on just a few locations ; independence referendum - flannel ; local income tax at high risk of legal challenge (yesterday at Folyrood).

Bendy Wendy and the rest should be shot for failing to nail this unbelivable level of incompetence.
22

Paul Spencer,

Glasgow 29/05/2008 08:21:19
Glasgow City Council is cutting its education department by £50 million, so any ideas about smaller class sizes, better standards etc, are pie in the sky. The fact is that there is little money to go around because the council tax base of payers inGlasgow is historically low due to a variety of factors. In urban areas I suspect that is going to be the case. Great ideas but with no wonga behind them, they will remain pipeline dreams.
Vis a vis new cirricula, there might be merit in them however if still leads to a morass of paperwork that teachers have to deal with then it will just breed more resentment from the profession.
Areas which are of concern to teachers and parents such as school discipline are still not being addressed. My wife as a teacher has to deal with a minority who are hell bound on disrupting classes, and has little or no sanction against these "pupils" who take away quality teaching time from those who want to learn..... is it any wonder that people who can go for the fee paying option. Perhaps a little more emphasis on teaching and less on inclusion would bring about better results rather than tinkering with the cirriculum!
23

john z,

edinburgh 29/05/2008 08:25:15
The glass really is half empty at the Scotsman. Every single story about Scotland, no matter what, is spun in order to be negative.

Is there nobody left in Scotland with a positive outlook to life. Many many things in Scotland are going well, and yet the doom mongers are in full flow, day in, day out. For heavens sake, cheer up you miserable b@ggers.
24

thinking,

Scotland 29/05/2008 08:32:42
#18
Obviously you were not taught good language skills at school if you have to resort to bad language to express yourself!!!!
25

Grahamski,

Falkirk 29/05/2008 08:32:54
23
Positive outlook? It's the horrible realisation that in Mr Salmond we have been sold a pup. Like a fairground mountebank the SNP have perpetrated the cruellest of hoaxes on the people of Scotland: the idea that our problems will be solved easily.
No wonder people are glum, as one policy after another crashes and burns in a sea of ineptitude and incompetence. Promises are ditched or denied and the blame game is in full flow. Of course it's not the SNP's fault; it's the English, our Westminster Parliament and recently a new bete noir, the EU. Give them another couple of months and they'll be blaming the Scots.
26

Jings Crivens,

29/05/2008 08:47:27
Yet another disaster by Cavalier Salmond and his team. After yet another broken manifesto promise about student debt they then end up making a mess of the new school curriculum.



27

John H,

edinburgh 29/05/2008 08:56:58
SNP and the failure to deliver on almost all stated objectives seem to be the norm. The inglouriuos leader
adopts the blameless stance far to often. The old adage applies "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen" Looks like he's been in the kitchen to long anyway.
Would you buy a second hand car from him teflon Alex. Don't think so. A parcel of rogues the lot of them and dressed in Tory tartan to boot.

28

,

29/05/2008 08:58:30
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
29

Macuistean,

Isle of Tiree 29/05/2008 09:03:59
I see that comments are removed when you compare this "newspaper" with toilet paper. This is just another pathetic attempt to blame the SNP for something started by the Lib Dems and Nu Labour when they were an executive.
30

Abnorman,

Edinburgh 29/05/2008 09:27:25
Failing education is just one of many symptoms of a society bereft of discipline. Classroom disruption is a major factor and teachers are virtually powerless to control it.
When these disrupters are older they throw stones at ambulances and set fire to buildings - safe in the knowledge that in the unlikely event of being caught their punishment will be meaningless.
Give them a few more years and they'll be carrying out 'unprovoked attacks' - a common phrase these days.
Then they will have children of (and probably on) their own and what sort of upbringing and values will they have?
We're pruning a very large weed instead of having the guts to tackle the root.
31

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

29/05/2008 09:27:45
I can understand why they want to get rid of Standard Grades but the solution seems to me completely unworkable.

If they are to keep Highers but scrap Intermediates and Standard Grade then how on earth are pupils going to cover the content that is pre-requisite for many Higher courses?

What will hapen to subjects such as Business Education that do not fit neatly into one of the "Curriculum for Excellence" headings? There are serious teaching and resource implications that need addressed before any new system can be implemented.

A general across the board qualification ignores the fact that some pupils perform better in practical as opposed to academic subject areas (and vice versa) - will pupils fail the general qualification if they can't achieve across the board skills?

And how on earth can you specialise in NINE ares? That's stretching the word specialise to the extreme. Moreover, is there time to actual cover 9 subjects as well as the compulsory elements?

Personally I would have scrapped Standard Grades and replaced them with Intermediates - and that may yet be the outcome if the EIS has its way.
32

Miss H,

29/05/2008 09:40:53
12 You have just provided a perfect example of someone reading a piece of text without actually understanding what it means. The line in question reads:

'In future, internet blogs, text messaging and film will all be regarded as acceptable forms of English, and lessons will attempt to tap into the kind of literature young people are enthusiastic about and already understand.'

That does not mean that more formal written English will no longer be taught. But it means that the curriculum will encompass different forms of communication.

Like it or not, the internet and text messaging have become key communiction tools. Chuldren who have no understanding of how to communicate on those levels will be severely disadvantaged.

Education should surely be about equping children with the skills to succeed in the world they are going to live in - not the world people might want them to live in. The ability to communicate is probably the most important skill a child possesses - second only to the ability to understand what they are reading.
33

Abnorman,

Edinburgh 29/05/2008 09:42:36
Changing the way we measure scholastic prowess is not the answer. We must change the way it's allowed to be delivered.
34

Miss H,

29/05/2008 09:44:07
25, 26, 27 - you also fail the test of understanding plain English. This curriculum reform was started in 20004.
35

Jings Crivens,

29/05/2008 10:07:06
34 Miss H,2

I do understand plain English and I know it was started in 2004. However, I also recognise incompetence when I see it.

The funding and management for the schemes implementation is the responsibility of the current Scottish Executive. Therefore it’s happening on their 'watch' and it’s their responsibility. All too often political parties (and their supporters) blame the last lot to cover up their own failings.
36

Grahamski,

Falkirk 29/05/2008 10:08:40
34
Miss H,
I understand perfectly well when this reform was started. What part of my post suggests that the SNP initiated this policy? I recommend you read posts before you attempt to pass judgement.
37

Foresight,

By the Water of Leith 29/05/2008 10:08:45

MISS H YOU COULD NOT BE MORE WRONG. The gobbledegook of texting in the long run blunts a childs ability to communicate in the bigger world, e.g. do I want my medical notes written up in text parlance? You may be happy at the prospect, I most certainly am not. Scotland was once famed for the quality of its education giving the "lad o'pairts" his chance in life. No longer so in the current regime, where children are being let down by teachers, leftie professors of education and politicians who have never held down a proper job in their lives. They therefore fail to understand how properly to equip children for the time when they leave school and go out into the bigger world. Right now the quality of Scottish education is a joke.
38

Jock McGrumpy,

In the air you breathe 29/05/2008 10:11:50
This story is classic Scottish Journalism

Take a new concept that has been a few years in the making, that is trying to equip youngsters to meet the needs of the C21st. Rubbish it and concentrate on all the negative comments made by people who don't understand it, without fully explaining what it is. Blame it on the current government then invite ill informed comment from other people who know nothing about it.
Is it any wonder that Scotland is such a seething mass of stupidity, ill health and intolerance if this is the best that a so called quality newspaper can come up with??
39

Jorel,

scotland 29/05/2008 10:13:07
Has anyone ever considered asking the pupils temselves. Are there not lots of things like youth councils, pupil groups, or the youth parliament where young ones should say what they think they need.

Or get youths who have recently left school to look back and find out what would have improved it.
40

Jock McGrumpy,

Everywhere 29/05/2008 10:15:38
''Judith Gillespie, of the Scottish Parent Teacher Council, said: "The trouble with the Curriculum for Excellence is people don't really understand what it is about.''

Speak for yourself. The information is out there for anyone to access, read, digest and understand. It's available on many a website. Who does the SPTC speak for? I'm a parent and they certainly don't represent my views, and they certainly don't speak for me.
41

frank mcbride,

lusitania 29/05/2008 10:17:35
All Union Alliance supporters.

If the SNP Government is so poor, why has the Unionist Alliance not brought it down?
Why does public support of the SNP, as indicated in Opinion polls, continue to rise?

Perhaps it's because people, who care, realise that the SNP Government is trying correct the disasters of Unionist Alliance policies, perpetrated on Scotland over the last 50yrs, and are being seen to, to a degree, successful, despite being a Minority Government.
42

Phil o Brian,

29/05/2008 10:22:42
Question. How long ago did Scotland have a World Class Education system. I was at school in Edinburgh 35 years ago and it was not world class then. Unless the rest of the world was shocking at that time. I think it is a myth that we have had a great education system in our time.
43

antifa,

29/05/2008 10:25:19
41 - don't play politics with this, it's too important.

40 - "The information is out there for anyone to access, read, digest and understand."

Well, the information is there to be read, but whether it's possible for teachers to understand it and put it into operation is an entirely different matter.
44

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

29/05/2008 10:37:11
#34 And your point is? The Curriculum for Excellence is a dog's breakfast of a policy - it is symptomatic of the ticky box mentality that is rife throughout our public services.

Labour ministers were told when it was first proposed that it would not work unless it was thought-out properly and well-resourced. It seems to me that either Fiona Hislop has not listened to any of the advice given or (more likely) it is yet another initiative driven by civil servants and the usual suspects.

Like the ludicrous "How Good Is Your School?" initiative (now in its third incarnation) it does not really improve education but is a tool for managers to give themselves a pat on the back even when they don't deserve it.
45

Jock McGrumpy,

29/05/2008 10:37:29
43
''Well, the information is there to be read, but whether it's possible for teachers to understand it and put it into operation is an entirely different matter.''

Of course they can. In many cases, the content of the curriculum won't change that much - delivery methods, media and the overall focus will. However, teachers will need time to understand fully what they are being asked to do. It will be over to education authorities, the SQA and yes, the government, to ensure teachers or relevant groups, have time to develop new materials and discuss how the new curriculum is delivered. If that all goes pear shaped, it wil be due to the fact that the whole education system is based on a mechanistic, Victorian mass production system intended to produce drones for the workplace. That's what needs to change in line with bringing the curriculum up to date.
46

ruthie,

alba 29/05/2008 11:10:20
1.Private schools have always done their own thing without any regard to adhering strictly to curriculum, so that's hardly shocking news!
2.Parents HAVE had leaflets explaining the Curriculum for excellence.
3.Teachers have complained for years that previous admin has been too restrictive for them...here they are being given the freedom to teach in the way they have always claimed to want to and now we get this Labour rag claiming that teachers are damning the curriculum.Interesting...
47

Miss H,

29/05/2008 11:14:17
37 Again you illustrate the dangers of not taking the time to read what people actually write. I suggest that skill is more important than missing out the vowels in some words when you send a text or indeed when you write a prescription.

Look at it this way – when I was at school many centuries ago I did ‘secretarial studies’ in which I got an introduction to shorthand. It was not suggested however that shorthand replaced formal English. It was a tool, just as texting is a tool. Just as the internet is a tool. If you don’t know how to use these tools you will be disadvantaged.

Possibly this is what the curriculum reforms are aiming at – equipping children with the skills they will need in the real world rather than the skills they needed 20, 30 or 40 years ago.

Quite honestly I think the best way to teach a 16 year old could be to give them a task, give them a computer and say I’ll come back in 3 months and see if you have managed. Because that is the reality of how the world of work operates these days. What school should be about is giving the pupils the skills and the confidence to be able to cope with that.
48

ruthie,

alba 29/05/2008 11:17:08
Oh and by the way, for the first time in generations, SCOTTISH history will now be taught in Scottish schools!About time! i disagree entirely with Judith Gillespie and i think that was a shockingly irresponsible thing to say (unless it's a misquote? )
49

Miss H,

29/05/2008 11:23:28
44 And you think therefore that it should have been dumped and Fiona Hyslop should have started from scratch?

I don't think so.

The process was well past the halfway mark when the SNP took office and has involved teachers at every single stage. Now the EIS is saying that if they don't get more money put into it there will be problems with implementation.

Well they would, wouldn't they?

If by 2009 teachers are saying the same thing and the changes are not happening then I dare say the policy will be reviewed. But the Government are quite right to continue the process otherwise it is a complete waste of four years of work.
50

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 29/05/2008 11:29:09
For the most part, what a palliative and wishy-washy dog's breakfast this "Curriculum for Excellence" is.

One cant tell it was formulated by a "committee"' and committee documents are always dodgy and scatter-brained.

As a part-time educator at the graduate level, I find the specifics to be vague and too difficult to implement.

If one reads the excellent book, "How The Scots Invented the MOdern World", one can see how far away from previous standards of education Scotland has devolved.

Glasgow and Edinburgh - especially Glasgow - were known for the excellence of their universities and grammar schools and that is why so MANY inventions that benefitted the whole world orginated in Scotland.

Boy, what a long way Scotland has come from those halcyon days of excellence in education.

Maybe with some drastic fine-tuning this document will actually WORK!
51

commenter23,

Essex 29/05/2008 11:41:19
This article is too long.
52

Jings Crivens,

29/05/2008 12:44:09
41 frank mcbride

So everything bad is the Union and everything good SNP.

Well in that case, maybe the supercarriers (which would never be commissioned by the SNP) should not be built and assembled in Scotland. If you don't want to be part of it why should you benefit from it
53

Calum Crubag,

29/05/2008 12:47:32
Appalling 'journalism' from the Scotsman. Most teachers welcome this. Perhaps the lazy jakes on Scotsman's staff could go into schools and find out??

As to eternal whinger Judith Gillespie, parents in Craigmillar and Perth don't know about 5.14 guidlines either. That's why some of us are teachers and others arent.

I don't know much about the entire workings of the national grid. But i leave it to experts. Same should go for teaching.

It seems as if any new system is confronted by overhwhelming negativity. Trams, windfarms, new and successful teahcing methods.... why don't we all go back to the dark ages.

Seems as if Scotland is a nation of whingers sometimes.

Shame on the Scotsman for printing this crap.
54

Foresight,

By the Water of Leith 29/05/2008 12:48:05

Miss H #47- Please explain to me why a 59 year old pharmacist should be asked to decipher a prescription in texting language if perchance he has no knowledge of such. Furthermore do you think that if he mis-read such a prescription and prescribed the wrong drugs his professional indemnity insurance would pay out in that event. Sadly we come back to the lack of experience of educationalists, civil servants and politicians of the wider world, hence their inability to properly determine the educational standards required in this modern age.
55

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 29/05/2008 12:48:51
Posters 51 and 52

Oh, just kiss and make up! :-(
56

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

29/05/2008 12:52:24
#46 As a teacher I can tell you that most teachers are damning the CfE.
57

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

29/05/2008 12:54:24
"#54 Calum Crubag,29/05/2008 12:47:32
Appalling 'journalism' from the Scotsman. Most teachers welcome this."

They don't.
58

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

29/05/2008 12:55:38
#49 Involced teachers?

Those who are climbing the greasy pole perhaps but not those who have to deal with issues day in and day out.
59

Jock McGrumpy,

29/05/2008 12:57:35
55#

Eh - what's the relevance of this? Who would write a prescription in text language when you can write it in the current incomprehensible format!!
60

Jock McGrumpy,

29/05/2008 13:02:11
59#
Why would most teachers not welcome a revamped curriculum designed to be more relevant to the world we live in and the skills needed to thrive in it?

Perhaps the problem lies not in the CFE, but in those who will have to deliver it? Are they capable of changing their existing mindsets and practises? The rest of the world has to as things move on. Oh, apart from journalists of course. Although the teaching profession is full of hard working committed professionals, you'd be hard put to find a group of people who can be bested at whinging and complaining over any new development. Especially the moribund EIS.
61

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

29/05/2008 13:07:54
#63 Both - exam leave just now and I've actually gone through and reviewed much of my curricular materials - only check the posts every hours or so though.
62

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

29/05/2008 13:15:19
#62 Jock - most teachers I am acquainted with have the problem is that the CfE is nothing more than a ticky box exercise in the vein of previous initiatives like "How Good Is Your School?". All it encourages is the type of ticky box management that glosses over the real problems teachers face.

To give an example, I remember teaching in one school that had carried out a HGIYS review and reading the report they had produced. The best comment came from one of the more experienced staff who said sarcastically:

"Can I teach in this school? It sounds great!!"
63

Vincent-W,

29/05/2008 13:16:56
A NEW Journalists Charter that aims to reinstate the Scotsman's reputation as a centre for world-class news reporting is set to be a disaster; the Scotsman’s Management was warned yesterday.

Just three months away from being rolled out in thousands of newsrooms, the Charter is desperately under funded in the Scotsman and at risk of being lost in a haze of vagueness and ignorance, according to readers. And, although it has been four years in the making, both editors and journalistic staff are said to be in the dark about how the reader's experience of the paper will change.

Experts say it means a golden opportunity to improve journalistic standards has been lost, as reporters and journalists at the Scotsman are almost certain to stick to using last year's methods.

Reader and Stakeholder groups are making a last-ditch demand for detailed information on how the Scotsman has failed to maintain a half decent reporting staff , which is based on four "capacities" all journalists should aspire to become – promoting accurate reporting, trustworthy individuals, responsible citizens and effective contributors of cultural excellence.

Calum Crubag of the rapidly growing group DRoS (Disgruntled Readers of the Scotsman) said recently of one report, “Appalling 'journalism' from the Scotsman……..Perhaps the lazy jakes on Scotsman's staff could go into schools and find out?”

The object of his ire, Ms Fiona MacLeod was recently noted to write in one of her typically risible reports that, “(Classroom Assistants) struck fear into the heart of parents.”

No-one at the Scotsman was available for comment.
64

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

29/05/2008 13:17:01
#66 Higher Business management & Int 2 Administration actually. The snooker (or rather pool) is for after work - we've got a pool & curry night!!

:D
65

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

29/05/2008 13:26:34
#70 The problem is that these sorts of things are never done honestly. There are managers who think that having a policy/procedeure on some issue means they are fulfilling their remit regards that issue.

INSET days are now a joke - they are predominantly an excuse for Rectors and Heads to tick off items off their "To Do" lists.
66

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

29/05/2008 13:28:09
#71 One of my friends describes the end of term as being the Teachers' Hogmanay - he's not far wrong!!
67

Non!!,

East Britain 29/05/2008 13:35:58
A long time ago I was a pupil at a selective secondary school in Central Scotland. I got "Highers" in six subjects (French, English, Mathematics, History,Chemistry and Physics, and Dynamics. I won a scholarship in the University Bursary Competition. I went on to Edinburgh University and got a first class honours degree in pure science followed by a medical degree. I worked extremely hard for the next forty five years.I was not unique. Lots of people did this. It was regarded as the norm. What the hell went wrong and why can't we go back to what was clearly a successful way of doing things?
68

Miss H,

29/05/2008 14:02:46
55 I sincerely hope that you are not that pharmacist because I would be frankly worried if you were.

At no point have I suggested that prescriptions should be written in txt tlk which should be confined to circumstances where it is appopriate.

Equally it would not be a good idea to write out a prescription in shorthand. But that does not mean that shorthand should not be taught.

Do you get it now?
69

Calvinist,

29/05/2008 14:02:55
Please don’t play politics with our children’s future- it’s much more important that scoring political points. Education is generally undervalued and has been underfunded for at least a generation by successive governments of various political hues. If we want a world-class educational system we’ve got to pay for it, it’s as simple as that. The problem is that there are few votes in education; when it comes to the ballot box we are not prepared to vote for the common good when it is likely to impact on our own wallets. We have the educational system that we deserve.
70

Miss H,

29/05/2008 14:26:56
78 Nonsense. There are loads of votes in education which is why it is always a key election issue and why successive governments have in fact spent lots of money on it.
71

moira,

Cairo 29/05/2008 14:43:08
I went to a non selective academy in Aberdeenshire which taught us in ability groups in Secondary. I left with good Highers and O Levels thanks to the no-nonsense attitude of the school and teachers who marked things wrong when they were wrong - and you had to correct it before you did anything else.

All teachers corrected mistakes in Spelling and Grammar and did not say - "I leave that to English teachers". Teachers were "on duty" all the time and did not ignore bad behaviour or language.

The emphasis was more on teaching and learning than on being happy and having a good time, which is what pupils expect now. I loved the system then, as we all felt secure and valued.

I do not think I would do so well in today's schools as they are more socially divisive and lax in attitude.
72

Jock McGrumpy,

29/05/2008 15:26:43
80# 'I do not think I would do so well in today's schools as they are more socially divisive and lax in attitude.'

Can't speak for you coping today, but what evidence do you have for the second part of your statement re socially divisive?
73

John from Virginia Beach,

USA 29/05/2008 16:11:33
Having been all over the world I find that of all the lofty goals for education nothing comes close to a basic education of the THREE "R"s This is the education I received in Scotland and even though I left school at 14 I believe I can put my education up against any in the world. Give students the best background in common sense and the great education I received more than 50 years ago.
74

Fift,

Montgomery Alabama 29/05/2008 16:34:41
I graduated as a Primary school teacher from Jordanhill in 1964. Trying to "fix things" in the upper level of schools is pandering to the less able who have been passed through the system, and these are the ones who often help destroy libraries in Muirhouse.
If we don't catch them in primary school, or at least let them feel encouraged, and worthwhile, the door is closing fast on their educational futures. So take text messaging out of the system and consider what our literary heritage would be like if Burns or Scott wrote in that mind whittling shorthand.

Good inspiring teachers can save generations. Oay them enough to do just that. EIS don't twiddle your thumbs on this. Change has to be foundational and strong.
75

voltaire's janny,

29/05/2008 17:08:00
#83 since pedantry is your game, schools in Scotland were free to use UK national boards as well.

As a reasonable student I had O-grades and Highers. As a wasting layabout I did sixth year studies and a Physics A-level (which I failed) resulting in a complementary O-level.

So as a state scholar in Scotland I "achieved" O-grade physics, O-level physics and Higher physics but not in that order....

Also the private schools have offered external (to Scotland) board exams for years. This may be the norm in England but they are not per se English exams.

76

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 29/05/2008 18:00:55
High ideals framed in lofty-sounding language may impress a handful of inexperienced MPs, but are meaningless in the classroom. What matters are the actual things that are to be taught to Scotland's children, and how they are to be taught. All else is hot air.
77

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 29/05/2008 18:17:36
In primary school there is no substitute for reading, writing, and arithmetic. These open the doors to all else. For the first five school years I would stress reading, writing, and arithmetic very highly. The grasp that a child has on these skills is of extreme importance. Grammar is essential, because without it communication becomes illogical and/or ambiguous. We should welcome Scots as a language in our schools, but we must be careful not to use slang, and ungrammatical constructions. Text messaging should not be taught at schools; children learn how to do it anyway, and it must be restricted to SMS messages.
78

Vincent-W,

29/05/2008 18:44:54
EXPERTS REVEAL NEW LOW IN STANDARDS

Experts revealed today that studies of the journalistic standards of some Scottish newspapers have plumbed new depths. The Scotsman is particularly mentioned while outwardly pretending to be a quality newspaper, readers are stunned daily by the lack of information in many of it's articles, the extravagent use of out of context quotes and "the use of unqualified newsroom assistants to write articles".

A Ms F MacLeod, who only has a handful of 'O' grades, has frequently been left in charge of the Education brief, floundering under a patina of 'Red Top Cliche' her articles are like Daily Record Lite. Mr McTavish of the MMR said, "Ah wouldnae wrap ma bloater in this tripe!"

No-one at the Scotsman was available for comment.
79

radge dug,

29/05/2008 19:12:21
Most teachers do welcome this. As one, i can vouch for it. As someone who already uses it to large extent, i sa it works.

CfE is not about teaching 'knowledge' but about equiping kids with the tools to find out for themselves. Tools for life and not just school.

As some have pointed out, the information is out there. My primary kids can understand it and the level of philosophical debate (as well as reading standards)in the class as a result of it is high. Dialogic teaching is proven to work and it's a big part of this. It's a pity Federalist and Judith Gillespie are too thick to do what my kids can.
80

A Scot in America,

29/05/2008 19:14:12
Religious Education??????????????????????????????
Seperation of Church and State please!!!!!!!!!!!