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Darling defends PM's bank tax call

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Published Date: 09 November 2009
CHANCELLOR Alistair Darling has defended Gordon Brown's call for a worldwide tax on financial transactions, despite the idea triggering a furious backlash from powerful allies such as the United States and International Monetary Fund.
Mr Darling said the Prime Minister had been right to suggest at the G20 summit in St Andrews that a "Tobin" tax be levied on financial transactions to pay for future bank bail outs.

He denied the idea had been a political stunt to please banker-hating voters in Britain.

Mr Darling said: "It's a question of fairness. I think there is broad agreement we should look at these things. They are not easy, they are not without their difficulties, but if you don't look at them, you won't know."

Mr Brown's speech on Saturday was met with embarrassing resistance within hours of his suggestion of the "Tobin tax", named after the Nobel-winning economist James Tobin.

The Prime Minister said it "cannot be acceptable" that banks enjoyed the profits when trades were successful but taxpayers had to pick up the costs of failures.

Within hours of his speech, a split developed across the G20.

US Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner immediately rejected the idea, saying: "A day-by-day financial transaction tax is not something we are prepared to support."

Canadian finance minister Jim Flaherty was equally dismissive, saying that Canada was "not in the business of raising taxes, we are in the business of lowering taxes ... It is not an idea we would look at."

Dominic Strauss-Kahn, head of the IMF, said it was unlikely that the tax would be adopted.

Analysts predicted that France and Germany could support the plan.

Despite the opposition from the US, Mr Darling insisted yesterday that the America's Treasury chief Mr Geithner was in broad "agreement" with the principle of the tax.

"He is very clear that institutions rather than individuals should bear the cost of this," Mr Darling said.

"It wasn't just us – at the G20 in Pittsburgh, when we met under President Obama's chairmanship, we asked the IMF to look a these possibilities and come forward with proposals next year."

He added that the plan would not go ahead without international support, and said: "We have talked to the Americans, just as we have talked to others – there are other countries too that are interested in looking at this. I think people will quite rightly say you should be looking at how these institutions make a contribution in the future."

Mr Darling admitted: "I would have liked to have made a bit more progress, frankly."

He added: "It's not surprising that a month before a big conference you sometimes get people not willing to reveal their true positions."

The snub is a setback for Mr Brown who wanted to show he was tackling the irresponsible actions of bankers and mitigating the chances of a repeat near-collapse .


Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 08 November 2009 9:51 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Mc Max ,

09/11/2009 00:05:41
Labours inept version of Laurel and Hardy continue to look foolish.
Canada and the USA are saying F,off.
Take the hint Broon.
2

Handsome Scotsman,

09/11/2009 00:24:58

"Tax everything that moves !"

Broons answer to servicing his debts shows the scary plan if Labour get re-elected.
3

Darien,

Panama 09/11/2009 00:41:12
#1 Mc Max:

Laurel & Hardy is being too kind on Broon & Darling. A couple of right muppets. The people of England should be on the streets by now. That pair should be strung up for what they've done.
4

Unelectedbythepeople,

UK 09/11/2009 01:20:39
Mr. Brown has finally lost it have you seen the letter he sent to the dead soldiers mother?

The man cannot string a sentence together and cannot write - how on earth did he get to his current position as the uneleceted Prime Minister - my god what a shocking state of affairs and yet people support him!!!!!!!!

The dumbing down of the UK is almost complete just look at this - a three year old - but not in the UK would do a better job.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/campaigns/our_boys/2720283/Prime-Minister-Gordon-Brown-couldnt-even-get-our-name-right.html
5

Cynicus Unbound,

09/11/2009 01:21:53
Alas, poor Macavity. I knew him, Rufus.

His bid to save the world a second time has come unstuck at the hands of the ingrates he saved first time around.

That's right, SLABbers, isn't it?
6

Mc Max ,

09/11/2009 01:34:55
4.s
post with a wee link.




http://tinyurl.com/ydr8x4v
7

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 09/11/2009 02:17:51
#4

Looks like it was written by someone who was drunk or on medication.
8

yamty175,

Edsomething 09/11/2009 02:47:07
3. I'll bring the rope.
9

,

09/11/2009 03:12:38
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
10

diasporian,

Tokyo 09/11/2009 04:20:44
Excellent idea. It should have been done years ago.
11

John Cameron,

St Andrews 09/11/2009 06:07:16
After the G20’s St Andrews Jolly, it looks as though nobody agrees on anything except that:

1. Gordon Brown’s cunning plan to tax ALL financial transactions is tosh

2. The hopes entertained by Brazil, China and India of trousering a Global Warming bribe from the stupid West are looking increasingly forlorn.

So it was, all in all, a successful meeting. Brown was made to look like the delusional, grandstanding, idiot he undoubtedly is and Al Gore will not become a billionaire this side of Christmas. It does not get much better.
12

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

09/11/2009 06:07:45
“US Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner immediately rejected the idea, saying: "A day-by-day financial transaction tax is not something we are prepared to support."

“ Despite the opposition from the US, Mr Darling insisted yesterday that the America's Treasury chief Mr Geithner was in broad "agreement" with the principle of the tax.”


So, Darling interprets “not something we are prepared to support” as “in broad agreement with”?

This does not exactly inspire confidence in any other judgement he may make.
13

steve 1511,

aberdeen 09/11/2009 06:36:08
once again the gibbering eejit with the big banana smile is exposed again as a gibbering eejit with a big banana smile
14

Horne,

09/11/09 09/11/2009 07:37:01
"Alistair Darling said Gordon Brown had made the right call"

Aye! what a Darling he is too.
15

The Tin Man,

09/11/2009 08:03:31
Have they forgotten that banks, and all other companies, are already taxed? If he wanted the errant banks to pay for their mistakes, he could have let them be liquidated.
16

TWC,

exLabour 09/11/2009 08:05:10
14
Horne

you mean Charlie

Brown has been in the clouds for ages and yet no action from the LAbs.
17

Foresight,

Edinburgh 09/11/2009 08:06:18

Socialist instincts are so inbred in Gordon Brown that he fails to see that the world is not the socialist paradise he believes it to be, but a series of competing nations. Globalism is not the answer, it is to make the UK the most competitive country in the world. France and Germany understand this perfectly well and this is why the UK gets roundly stuffed by them most of the time. Waken up Gordo, get into the real world, roll your sleeves up, put a thinking man's cap on and start trying to make the UK Numero Uno in this big bad world.
18

paulr,

edinburgh 09/11/2009 08:28:16
What a sorry state we have landed in, after thatcher doing her best to return us to a feudal, lord and peasant society, through the ineptitude of blair and co, we end up with brown and darling.
Brown spent 9 years as chancellor setting up our financial industries for the big fall by removing all constraints and letting fiscal greed run wild, he then weaseles his way into no10 and set his protege the moron darling to continue his work.
Now they are pretending to be saviours or the world, what a laugh.
19

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 09/11/2009 08:37:00
Calling it a tax is a mistake, its a levy similar to the one for pension companies, to provide a bail out fund. But its OK, the tax payers will foot the bill, as usual.

Very surprised at the US not wanting to do this, it was their banks, along with ours, that caused the problem. Not surpised with the French and German opposition, why should their banks pay for the mess.

15: I think you may be very surpised at how little tax is paid by large multinational corporations. They dont pay anywhere near the amount they should.
20

TWC,

exLabour 09/11/2009 08:38:35
17 Foresight,
Brown is no socialist he has increased the gap between rich and poor, and he has means tested the ordinary folk out of everything.
Tax credits = Means testing and Labour vowed to end means testing
21

Foresight,

Edinburgh 09/11/2009 09:07:25

#20 What about his raid on pension funds and all the other stealth taxes he has introduced ????? He is an unreconstructed socialist, but to respond to your observation he does not have a clue how to manage even a socialist agenda.
22

Alan B,

09/11/2009 09:17:24
Daft idea that is just for short term political consumption. If they were serious they would have had a quiet word with the other world leaders and guaged opinion and quietly tried to persuade them.

This is just an idea as brown tries to divert from his gross economic mismanagement with an election on the horizon.
23

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 09/11/2009 09:25:21
#21 - I remember Private Eye did one of their number crunching comparisons, where they compared the amount lost to pensions due to tax of dividends and the money lost due to companies taking pension contribution holidays. At the time they were almost the same. Some of the blame on the mess is Browns, but companies have to take their share of the responsibility for not paying in when the times were good.

As for Brown being a socialist, I never said he was, there are no socalists in the labour leadership and haven't been since Blair became leader.


24

Alan B,

09/11/2009 09:31:08
#Foresight & TWC

Arguing over whether he is socialist depends on how you want to define socialist.

To me his is not socialist but to me socialist is the idea of nationalising the means of production ie it is an economic ideology. The state basically run industry.

Problem is socialism is used by different groups to mean completely different things. (From what i read socialism was originally thought up to mean some sort of communial type of thing, but generally morphed into state ownership of the means of production).

John Smith tried to redefine socialism as a sense of values and distance itself from the economic policies of socialism. (probably to move the party away from old labour but could be seen as intellectual dishonesty).

As such when you guys are arguing about whether brown is socialist you are labelling socialism as two different things. TWC not as a set of economic policies but a sense of values, and Foresight you seem to be defining it as a government that taxes everything in sight and a love of public spending.
25

Alan B,

09/11/2009 09:33:47
#Foresight

The tax raid on pension was a way for brown to raise taxation significantly (destroy the pensions system) in a way that would take time for people to notice as it does not hit the pocket immediately.

And then go on a spending spree without generating the necessary wealth to do so.

Brown has been all about the very short term and political power with little heed to right and wrong and the long term implications of his actions.
26

Alan B,

09/11/2009 10:30:47
#NittonLover

I do not think pension holidays have much to do with it. I think brown did well in bringing in a requirement for business to fully fund pension schemes, pity he did not do the same for the public sector where he hid this debt off balance sheet.

Browns tax on pensions would hit the money purchase schemes. There is no pension holiday for money purchase schemes.

The double whammy of brown on pensions was that his massive tax hit share prices and therefore hit the pension funds at the same time shares were diving after the dot com bubble.

It was not that the actual change that was the problem but that he took the money out the pension system rather than reforming it to give us a better and more workable system.

27

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 09/11/2009 10:51:27
#25 I have seen the figures, at the time (a few years ago), 5.9bill was lost due to removing the tax break and 6 billion was lost due to pension holidays. Not saying the tax break did not have an effect but it is not all down to it. When he implemented the change the rush to close final salary schemes had not started.

The pension holiday can be seen as one of the reasons why final salary schemes are so much in defecit and why companies are falling over themselves to close them down.





28

Black Sabbath,

09/11/2009 10:53:03
Brown and Darling are loathsome, tax-greedy plums.

Darling has no mind of his own and will toe the party line, no matter how indefensible.
29

Black Sabbath,

09/11/2009 10:54:47
#19 "15: I think you may be very surpised at how little tax is paid by large multinational corporations. They dont pay anywhere near the amount they should."

People have a right to keep their own money. Governments are way too greedy and you are way too servile.
30

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 09/11/2009 11:03:20
#29 - "People have a right to keep their own money. Governments are way too greedy and you are way too servile."

First point, these are not people but large corporations who use every trick in the book to avoid paying tax.

Second point, because of this it is the PAYE earners in this country who are paying more than their fair share. I dont mind paying my fair share but object when I see the many examples of people and companies not paying theirs.





31

Black Sabbath,

09/11/2009 11:10:20
#20 Brown is a Socialist. Socialism is about state power and Brown loves to increase the power of the state.
32

Black Sabbath,

09/11/2009 11:11:26
#30 What do corporations consist of, if not people?

People pay too much tax because governments are too greedy and you are still too subservient.
33

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 09/11/2009 11:16:27
#32 - "What do corporations consist of, if not people?"

Are you seriously trying to prove you point by that statement?




34

morris,

edinburgh 09/11/2009 11:52:01
31

Whilst your definition of Socialism may ring true with many, and just as many would disagree I suspect, the claim that Brown is a socialist is just too ridiculous for words.The man is as right wing as Blair's NEW LABOUR party could be, and is only interested in power and personal gain.Unfortunately he is a big damp squib and about to be extinguished.
I am totally alien to Tory thinking,but I would at least prefer a party that admitted to its right wing credentials,than one that knowingly cons the poor and even more so the Scots.
Labour are LIARS and it does not matter which colour of liar you are .
35

Darien,

Panama 09/11/2009 12:03:26
#31 Black Sabbath: "Brown is a Socialist"

Brown is a spiv, a spin doctor and a British nationalist, like most Westmidden politicians. He does not believe in the Scottish nation - if he did, he would make it one. Ditto all Scots 'unionists'.
36

Buckpool Loon,

Cheshire 09/11/2009 12:44:02
It is a convenient idiocy to tie socialism to the management and control of industry, employment or capital.

Sure there are certain industries which should be run along market lines, but with the nation holding the lions share. Base line utilities for instance, where the present idealogical fashion for privatization has perfected the socialising of costs - the privatization of profit and the reduction of consumer power. After all, why shouldn't the country profit from a dividend on its own resources?

And, as has been proven by the bankers, the financial industry has proven the old adage of - greed making fools of those who develop the appetite for it. It's patently obvious that rampant free market capitalism is just as likely to hit the rocks of stupidity as rampant socialism is to hit the rocks of stupid and possibly tyrannical bureaucracy.

We need the right mix of capitalism that does not regard its freedom as one that releases it from its social responsibilities. And a socialism that encourages business and doesn't regard profit as an anathema.

But what we have, is the elephants of global commerce becoming unelected, autocratic masters of the world. And yes, they've reached the point where the PM's and Presidents are becoming no more than their human resource managers.

I, for one, have never felt comfortable being regarded as a resource where the only bottom line that matters is the pennies of profit. But for others that may well be fine.
37

James.com,

09/11/2009 12:53:07
He is a national treasure ! The Russian Finance minister said " Gordon Brown likes to raise taxes " and the Canadian one " We are trying to lower taxes not raise them " What will we do without him!
38

JCA REID,

Annan 09/11/2009 13:01:09
Just goes to show what a right papir of Muppets they are. After the the General Election they will be scarpering after jobs in the city/H o Lords/anywhere, where their incompetence will be more than amply rewarded.
39

Independent Mind,

Buckie, Glasgow, Oxford 09/11/2009 13:07:47
34 morris

Not only is Brown a socialist, Brown is the worst type of socialist, a facsist.

He believes that he can organise peoples lives better than they can but he is from the generation of socialists that saw Old Labour fail due to its unworkable policies of state run industy, which crippled the UK.

That was a completely unmarketable vision after the 1970's and so they shifted focus. The only other socialist vision was fascism, the corporate state. So now we have the situation where big government is in the pocket of big business, in particular big banks. We have now found (unsurprisingly) that version of socialism has failed too because as with all socialist ideas it is completely unworkable in reality. As one of our greatest thinkers pointed out a long time ago, people act in their own self interest, so when you give them the power to plan a society, guess what? They plan it in their own self interest.

My generation will be paying the bills for the previous generations socialist idealism for the rest of our lives. Retire at 65? I will be lucky if the country can even afford a state pension!

40

Nevsky;,

St Petersburg 09/11/2009 14:09:23
Everyone in the international community rushing to support Gordon Brown's ideas due to the remarkable success of the UK economy under his tenure.

Another epic international fail by Gordon!
41

Can-Scot,

Pickering, Ontario 09/11/2009 14:13:12
When Lehman Bros. went belly up thousands of employees
went home jobless and virtually penniless. The Chairman, who must carry final responsiblity for the disaster, and who had enjoyed a phenominal income during "Feast" time went home with $60 million in his pocket. That is plain wrong and that kind of Sh** has to be fixed first. After all if (as I have seen) a couple of guys get together, sell their homes, their cars, and anything else they can sell, and borrow what ever they can to go into business and it fails, they also go home penniless and are forever in debt to whoever they borrowed from. Why is the Chairman of Lehman's different????????

42

Davy,

the big picture 09/11/2009 15:07:19
#30 Nitton
First time I have ever agreed with the Nitton, you are spot on, good to look at the big picture. Labour is gash, but sometimes they are right.
43

Black Sabbath,

09/11/2009 15:07:53
#34 "the claim that Brown is a socialist is just too ridiculous for words.The man is as right wing as Blair's NEW LABOUR party could be,"

You do not know the meaning of words. Socialism, by definition, is state control of the economy.

The Socialist Taxer Brown has relentlessly raised taxes for years and still you think he is right wing?

Words have no meaning to you
44

Black Sabbath,

09/11/2009 15:10:53
#36 Socialism has been refuted in theory and has failed in fact.

The current mess is the result of state intervention in the money supply by means of central banks. Central banks are a key plank of the Communist manifesto btw.

Adding to the problem are bozos who insist that 'boom and bust' is the result of capitalism, when it demonstrably is not.
45

Hobbe,

09/11/2009 15:48:20
Scots think of socialism as having a 'social conscience' rather than a dreamy seldom used term by the few labourites who still imagine that 'new' labour are left wing or socialist, a word their policies show is not understood.
46

Buckpool Loon,

Cheshire 09/11/2009 16:06:14
#44 Black Sabbath - No we regard boom and bust as stupid capitalism. But please demonstrate why it isn't to blame.

#45 Hobbe A good and pertinent point.
47

Independent Mind,

Buckie, Glasgow, Oxford 09/11/2009 16:33:24
45, 46

If you have any "social conscience" then you would allow the free market to flourish so that the poor of society could be lifted from that poverty rather than trapping them in the perpetual poverty of socialism.

46 "we regard boom and bust as stupid capitalism"

Read this:

http://www.adamsmith.org/images/stories/credit-crunch.pdf

Loose government monetary policy is to blame for all economic bubbles, this bubble (which has yet to properly burst) is no different.

48

danbob,

09/11/2009 16:35:24
It seems a sensible proposal to me. A tax to protect the taxpayers of all countrys of the excesses of the banking world. It does not surprise me that the Americans find it difficult to support. If people could just stop attacking Brown for the sake of it and think out of the box.

Over the past decade the banks have feasted on greed and excess and when the game plan went belly up fell back on Johnny taxpayer. The question is have they learned the lesson? Have they hell. The bonus culture is back and the capitalist trough is back out. We as a nation are on the fringe of bankruptcy because of these clowns. They must be made to pay some form of insurance against this happening again.
49

Independent Mind,

Buckie, Glasgow, Oxford 09/11/2009 16:47:49
48 danbob

"The bonus culture is back and the capitalist trough is back out. We as a nation are on the fringe of bankruptcy because of these clowns."

Why wouldn't the bonus culture be back? By bailing them out the taxpayer has just sent them the signal that they can do whatever they want and take as many risks as they want. This was obviously going to happen.

We are on the verge of bankrupcy due to the inept Labour government who have been spending well beyond our means for over a decade. The bailouts is just the icing on the cake.

Why do people blame capitalism? In a truly capitalist system they would simply have went bust, but we don't live in a capitalist system. We live in a fascist coporate state where Brown and co. went and bailed out their banking mates that took them for champagne dinners etc in the good times.

Anyway, it was Brown that caused this bubble and this mess in the first place with his loose monetary policy.
50

ScotlandEternal,

Sammamish 09/11/2009 19:53:19
Before ye know it, we'll all be sticking our money under the mattress and go back to barter and trade. The right thing, is for the Banks pay an insurance fee to Lloyds, then if they go under, they, the banks not their customers will have to pay up. What good is it to have independence if the PM goes in lock step with No.10?
51

Black Sabbath,

09/11/2009 20:06:51
"#44 Black Sabbath - No we regard boom and bust as stupid capitalism. But please demonstrate why it isn't to blame."

You are stupid.

The fact is that the monetary supply is nationalised, worldwide, in the form of central banks. Central banks are a key plank of the communist manifesto.

And what do Central Banks do? They intervene in the money supply, making credit easier than the market would otherwise have made it and then we get boom and bust.
52

Black Sabbath,

09/11/2009 20:07:59
#48 "It seems a sensible proposal to me. A tax to protect the taxpayers of all countrys of the excesses of the banking world."

It is not sensible. It is just and excuse for Brown to tax people and grab power. That is the rationale behind everything that Taxer Brown does.
53

Buckpool Loon,

Cheshire 09/11/2009 20:21:15
~52 Black Sabbath. Stupid am I!

Perhaps I am, but only for trying to inform the ignorant.

i.e. Federal Reserve, BoE along with most other major nations in the world have central banks; what has that got to do with communism?

It would seem they, just as you have done, failed to spot the stupidity of their position.

 

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