Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement

The hunt is On.
Sponsored by
Can you track down Scotland's wildest beastie?
 
 
Friday, 5th December 2008 Change Date

The Scotsman Digital Archive - Special Christmas Offer

Premium Article !

Your account has been frozen. For your available options click the below button.

Options

Premium Article !

To read this article in full you must have registered and have a Premium Content Subscription with the The Scotsman site.

Subscribe

Registered Article !

To read this article in full you must be registered with the site.

Glenrothes by-election: Salmond throws down gauntlet to Brown



Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 15 October 2008
Scotland's First Minister, Alex Salmond, today challenged Gordon Brown to a head-to-head debate in the run-up to the crucial Glenrothes by-election.
The SNP leader warned that he is ending the political truce agreed during the current banking turmoil – after Mr Brown claimed Scotland could not have tackled the banking crisis on its own.

Mr Salmond said the nationalists are on course to pull of
f a shock in the vacant seat next month, similar to the "political earthquake" they caused after overturning a Labour majority of 10,500 to win Glasgow East in the summer.

"I detect that the political earth is still shaking from Glasgow East and it's going to be felt next here in Glenrothes," he said.

The SNP leader was joined by the party's candidate for the seat, local council leader Peter Grant, at Scottish Second Division side East Fife's Bayview ground today in Methil to launch the nationalists' campaign.

Mr Salmond said rising energy costs will be among the key issues in the campaign and predicted action in these areas as "the political pressure mounts".

He also reiterated his weekend calls for a £1 billion package from Westminster to help reflate the Scottish economy, including £120 million held by energy watchdog Ofgem for Scotland.

Mr Salmond welcomed Mr Brown's plans to campaign in the constituency.

"Battle will be joined and the issue will be toe-to-toe," Mr Salmond said.

"I'll be delighted to meet Gordon on the campaign trail – who knows, we might meet up on it somewhere.

"I would be delighted, incidentally, to debate with the Prime Minister."
He added: "I will be delighted to debate with the Prime Minister anywhere in this seat.

"I'll do it in the park in East Fife at New Bayview here. I'm very happy to do that."

Mr Brown said last night that a Scottish administration could not have masterminded a similar bail-out of the banking system to the £37 billion package he announced this week.

The First Minister said he had told Chancellor Alistair Darling that he would "suspend" normal political crossfire during the crisis.

Mr Salmond said: "Obviously he (Mr Brown) feels, and let's all hope, that the emergency situation has calmed down.

"I can only interpret the decision to resume political hostilities in that light, therefore he will now be subject to the same examination politically that normal times demand."

He added: "In particular we can examine who the author of the 'Age of Irresponsibility' actually was."

Mr Salmond also said the SNP would not shy away from the issue of independence after question marks were raised about the toll of the economic turmoil on countries like Ireland and Iceland – previously held up by the nationalists as examples for Scotland to follow.

"Our policy of Scottish independence underlines everything we do," he said.




The full article contains 481 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 15 October 2008 1:07 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Glenrothes by-election
 
1

danielrober,

15/10/2008 13:40:00
NO.

A leaders debate involves all the leaders, all the vice leaders. Not Alec.S and his ego making Scotland his personal beef with Brown. All the leaders or NONE, thats democracy.

If Alec.S wants a debate i'll talk with him in public, with cameras about energy policy projected over a 50 year period. But i'm not important enough, to divert the First Ministers time, from his job. But First Minister is not important enough for divert the Prime Minsters time, for a debate over this months politics when he is needed to run the country.

Alec.S really has the biggest EGO in Scotland.
2

ppink,

15/10/2008 13:42:40
The one thing that Brown fears is the voter, the man in the street who pays for his grandiose follies and who will ultimately give him the sack.
3

danielrober,

15/10/2008 13:52:55
The more i read these vast statements by the SNP on Alec.S verse Godon Brown.

Is this really not about Alec.S not coping that he himself did not make Prime Minister of the UK because he too is Scottish! Is this not the fact that the Prime Minister is Scottish & Alec.S's EGO also thinks this gives him a right to ask for a debate!

Bad luck - Alec.S you did not make Prime Minister! I and many other people would be happy to make First Minster of Scotland to serve Scotland, rather than be served by Scotland. You need to please back off Alec.S, your damaging the economy of Scotland and the UK.
4

An Beal Bacht,

15/10/2008 14:09:11
Brown depends on a compliant and complicit media to maintain the fiction that he is a "great leader" who has saved civilization from disaster. Such a fantastical proposition would be exposed to the ridicule it so obviously deserves in a head to head debate with Scotland's First Minister. Bottler Broon has the gall but not the guts.
5

ppink,

15/10/2008 14:09:18
7 Well really what a daft comment UG, Brown has shown a pathelogical dislike of putting his popularity to that particular test
6

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 15/10/2008 14:25:58
#1 Steve

That sounds like wishful thinking on your part.
7

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 15/10/2008 14:27:13
#10 Tin Pot

Yes he does. I heard him today on TV and radio.

Next question?
8

ppink,

15/10/2008 14:34:45
#17 If Scotland had been independent there would have been no crisis to handle
9

ppink,

15/10/2008 15:03:57
Happy from Knt

The Oil saved England from numerous financial debacles over the past 30 years and underwrites the borrowing that England will have to do if it can underwrite a minority stake in RBS (or is it going to be Royal Bank of England now or the Unionist Bank or National Westminster Bankof Kent)
10

ppink,

15/10/2008 15:10:41
Happy

If Scotland wants Independence all they have to do is vote for it. It's going to happen. The legal framework is in place. No other qualifications are necessary.

When that happens all Scottish resources will be Scotlands. Who knows we might let the Queen visit Balmoral if she pays rent.
11

ppink,

15/10/2008 15:22:02
#34 Happy from Kent oil is a joke etc
Happy


Try telling a joke to an empty tank.
12

ppink,

15/10/2008 15:24:01
happy

Don't tell me to get real you yokel The Scottish Banks were shorted and he acted illegally.
13

ppink,

15/10/2008 15:38:35
#40

He suspended the OFT regulations and delayed the shorting ban - both illegal in order to further his political ends.

14

Alan B,

15/10/2008 15:52:10
#2 The Master

Salmond agrees with Darling that they will not slag each other off during a crisis. Browns breaks the agreement and you blame Salmond.

Brown breaks the convention that prime ministers do not campaign and you blame Salmond for wanting to debate with him.

At the end of the day I do not know why any democrat would be against a debate between the party leaders. Your unionist fear is showing. Do not have a debate. Salmond might take Brown to the cleaners in any debate.

It is funny how 2 ultra unionists in you and Daniel both are against debates that would allow the people to decide.

#Daniel your posts are getting more ridiculous, desperate and obscure by the day. What is seriously wrong with a debate between the 2 leaders? That is democracy. It lets the public decide. How is Salmond wanting to debate Brown on a democratic debate anything to do with Salmond wanting to be PM.

"But First Minister is not important enough for divert the Prime Minsters time, for a debate over this months politics when he is needed to run the country."

That is simply stupid. As it was Brown who has said he will campaign for in this byelection. If Brown has enough time to walk the streets campaigning he has enough time for a debate. If Brown has enough time to yesterday launch a tv interview attack on independence then he has enough time for a head to head debate.
15

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 15/10/2008 16:06:59
The SNP are still clear favourites to win Glenrothes.

One step closer to those 20+ seats at Westminster.
16

ppink,

15/10/2008 16:07:03
Happy. No no no you are as confused as your post is confusing.

I don't know how you can say that the Banks would have gone to the wall if if Scotland was independent. There has been no trouble in Norway or Finland or New Zealand for example.






17

An Beal Bacht,

15/10/2008 16:21:30
Unemployment in Scotland rises by 19,000

At a briefing in London for the international media, some of whom have labelled Mr Brown a "magician" and a "superhero", he brushed off a suggestion by one foreign reporter that he was now "Flash Gordon"


Aye - pure magic.
18

Border Scot,

15/10/2008 16:23:38
When was the last time Alex Salmond asked Gordon Brown a question at PMQs in Westminster?
19

57vintage,

Keith 15/10/2008 16:25:35
"The SNP leader was joined by the party's candidate for the seat, local council leader Peter Grant, at Scottish Second Division side East Fife's Bayview ground"

SECOND DIVISION?

And fighting relegation if Smirking Sandy's recent performance is anything on which to judge.
20

An Beal Bacht,

15/10/2008 16:27:11
Mr Broon's few hours of media triumph are now history as the economy falls apart before our eyes. But what of the 500,000,000,000 pounds screams Gaga Broon to his palls in the City? Thanks - they reply.
21

john z,

edinburgh 15/10/2008 16:28:27
Gordon Brown: Tough on Scottish Banks, Tough on the causes of Scottish Banks.

I look forward to a debate between these two people , assuming of course Gordon Brown doesn't wimp out.

Over the past few weeks, hard up Scots have seen Gordon Brown and his English Government squander Scottish tax payers money in order to save the London bankers in England. It is an absolute obscenity, that so much Scottish money is being wasted paying for grandiose English Government projects like the London Olympics.

As for Brown, and his handling of the economy, we now see rising unemployment, rising inflation (at record levels), and falling house prices. Only one man can be held responsible, as he has been in charge for twelve years. Gordon Brown.

Bring on independence, so we scots can have a leader like Alex Salmond, who will look after the interests of Scottish people, unlike Gordon Brown, who spends his time wasting OUR Scottish tax money on the English Olympics, Wembley, and St.Pancras Station.

No doubt tonight, Brown will be glued to the TV watching HIS team (England) play. The man is an utter disgrace to Scotland.
22

ppink,

15/10/2008 16:28:44


#48 Stop doing this Alfred E Neumann 'go get a life and 'cuckoo land' cliches.

Iceland like England and the United States followed the Anglo Saxon model of bad regulation and over borrowing.

Unfortunately HBOS and RBS did the same. I am not excusing them. They were easy meat.

We trusted the UK authorities to act prudently. They didn't.

It's time for change.






23

Border Scot,

15/10/2008 16:31:12
For the past few years the SNP has been tellin all Scots that independence would be a simple, pain free move. We would all pay less tax and have more money t spend on services they have told us. We would be much better off than we are now. We would be welcomed into the EU with open arms.

The last few weeks have not shown us that Scotland could not go it alone. Clearly wecould. But what they have shown is that the SNP's platitudes and assurances that it would not change very much at all are completely false.

Thereis a case for Scottish independence, but the SNP have not made it bcause they have chosen not to level with the Scottish people about the very hard choices we would have to make, about the uncertainty we would face and about the dangers small countries have to confront, as well as the opportunities that they can take advantage of. Hopefully what the events of the last few weeks will do is inject some honesty into the debate.

If we do vote for independence at some stage, we have to have done it knowing exactly what is front of us. I think now we have a much better idea than we did before.
24

john z,

edinburgh 15/10/2008 16:33:02
Just in case nobody has realise, the way it is being presented, that Gordon Brown showed the whole world what to do to rescue banks, let me put you straight. Watch Spanish TV, or French TV, or italian TV, or US TV, and you will not find, Zapatero, Sarkozy, Berlusconi or Bush talking about how Gordon Brown showed them what to do. No, the reality is the plan of action was a consensus decision taken at recent G7 and EU finance meetings, Gordon Brown just did what they ALL decided together.

To even suggest that Brown led the way, is a fr*ggin joke. Also known as 'spin' or bullsh*t depending upon your point of view.
25

57vintage,

Keith 15/10/2008 16:33:18
Brown has nothing to gain from this and will pragmatically ignore the fool.

A cheap publicity stunt from a yo-yo leader.

Does he take a seat in Edinburgh or London?

When will he next decide that he doesn't want to be leader any more and then decide later on that he wants his sweeties back?

He was discredited by his own hand long before the non-events of the past 3 weeks.
26

Border Scot,

15/10/2008 16:33:29
#57 - Labour is in power solely because of Scottish votes. Scotland voted labour in 2005, 2001 and 1997, so for the last 11 years Scotland has had the government at Westminster that scotland wanted. Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling are Scots representing Scottish constituencies.
27

Border Scot,

15/10/2008 16:34:43
#62 - I guess the bloke who as awarded the Nobel prize for economics earlier this week must be wrong then. But what would he know, eh?
28

1stEdinburgh,

Scotland 15/10/2008 16:36:47
Although the SNP has done a lot of good things for Scotland in such a short space of time (abolishing bridge tolls and hospital car park charges, free presriptions now and free school meals soon in addition to Scottish students not paying university feesfree long-term care for the elderly), it risks alienating a lot of new SNP voters who prefer a self-administered Scotland within a UK framework.
29

57vintage,

Keith 15/10/2008 16:38:57
I stopped trusting this lightweight ever since "Free By 93" in the 1992 election (probably too far back for a large number of infants Nats) saw me lend him my vote.

The result was that the sitting MP's majority was cut to just 800 and almost let the tory in.

Never again.

Toom tabard.
30

An Beal Bacht,

15/10/2008 16:39:28
The Prime Minister looked very comfortable - jubilant even - on Newsnight. He seems to enjoy answering planted questions with prepared answers. Yes - that's his kind of debate. He's very good at it.
31

john z,

edinburgh 15/10/2008 16:39:45
Number 61,

Clearly you have zero understanding of the democratic process. The only reason Brown didn't turn up in Glasgow east was because he knew he was a liability in Scotland. All the other leaders WERE THERE, just as often as Salmond.

Alex Salmond is a great leader for Scotland.

The notion that Scotland is THE ONLY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD that cannot self govern is quite frankly ridiculous. Of course Scotland can be independent, but I think it is clear, that many of the people posting otherwise are just unionist English puppets like Jim Murphy.

Why does Scotland need a foreign government to run it?? Time for Scotland and the Scottish people to run the country themselves, instead of this old colonial Government in England.

Quite frankly, Most people in Scotland would rather have Salmond than the english buffoon Gordon Brown. Gordon Brown, the man who failed Scotland.
32

57vintage,

Keith 15/10/2008 16:41:53
#60 "What is so hard about that?"

All I want is some truth (Lennon).

Tell us what it will cost taking into account the need to set up a discrete civil service, a military etc etc

I may not be against independence, but the case hasn't been made yet and there are far more pressing social issues to be sorted out rather than spending time debating the constitution.
33

ppink,

15/10/2008 16:42:37
#66 If you read 'the bloke who was awarded the Nobel prize' blog on the NYT you will see that HE floated 'The Gordon Brown's plan' mid september which Hank Paulson rejected at the time.

All the leaders did was adopt the plan of a Nobel Prize winner and leading economist. No wonder he is said the plan was brilliant.

You don't really think that Laurel and 'eyebrows Hardy' thought that up surely.
34

An Beal Bacht,

15/10/2008 16:43:58
Unemployment in Scotland rises by 19,000

The Prime Minister is an economic magician so he is.
35

danielrober,

15/10/2008 16:44:07
# 44 Alan B,

How about a panel debate where David Cameron and Nick Clegg are there too. The COnservative and Lideral Democrates are both national elected leaders as well. Or has Alec.S decided that no one else has the right to be heard in Scotland.

Visting a bi-election seat by Gordon Brown is very different from a debate. These events must follow rules, cleared up months in advance. Rather than been a little stich up between two parties in Scotland, other should be heard.

As for my chatting with his kingship, why not? He likes to pour policy statements on engineering all the time. Why not film his kingship talking to say the chairman of EDF, BP, BA, RBS (big technlogy investo)etc. Rather than just hearing one side, the SNP side lets hear what is actually said in front of cameras.

If Alec.S is not afriad of democracy, then lets have a democratic bedate with all the leaders.
36

An Beal Bacht,

15/10/2008 16:45:56
57vintage, Keith 15/10/2008 16:41:53

"I may not be against independence, but the case hasn't been made yet and there are far more pressing social issues to be sorted out rather than spending time debating the constitution."

Droll - very droll.
37

An Beal Bacht,

15/10/2008 16:50:14
Scotland's National Anthem under Broon:

They used to tell me I was building a dream
And so I followed the mob.
When there was earth to plow or guns to bear,
I was always there, right on the job.
They used to tell me I was building a dream
With peace and glory ahead --
Why should I be standing in line, just waiting for bread?
Once I built a railroad, I made it run,
Made it race against time.
Once I built a railroad, now it's done --
Brother, can you spare a dime?

Once I built a tower, up to the sun,
brick and rivet and lime.
Once I built a tower, now it's done --
Brother, can you spare a dime?

Once in khaki suits, gee, we looked swell
Full of that Yankee Doodle-de-dum.
Half a million boots went slogging through hell,
And I was the kid with the drum.

Say, don't you remember they called me Al,
It was Al all the time.
Why don't you remember, I'm your pal --
Say, buddy, can you spare a dime?

Once in khaki suits, ah, gee, we looked swell
Full of that Yankee Doodle-de-dum.
Half a million boots went slogging through hell,
And I was the kid with the drum.

Say, don't you remember they called me Al,
It was Al all the time.
Why don't you remember, I'm your pal --
Buddy, can you spare a dime?
38

Border Scot,

15/10/2008 16:53:47
#68 -

1. Higher taxes and higher investent like Norway; or lower taxes and public services cuts like Ireland?

2. Accepting EU membership on the EU's terms or staying outsde the EU?

3. What will the new Scottish constitution look like and who will write it?

4. Does Scotland need a central bank, if so how do we establish one?

5. What currency should we use?

6. How far are we prepared to compromise in order to get an independence settlement that all parts of the island of Britain can live with?

7. What happens if Scots vote for an independence negotiaiton and do not like what has been negotiated?

And so on. All very hard choices and ones which the SNP have never spoken about up until now.The last few weeks have shown us independence will not be an easy step to guaranteed prosperity, but a very difficult and complicated move fraught with danger. That does not mean that it should not happen, but it does mean we need a full and honest debate about the consequences of independence.
39

john z,

edinburgh 15/10/2008 16:55:29
As Harry Hill would say;

Gordon Brown or Alex Salmond, which one's better?? Hmmm??

There's only one way to decide

FIGHT!

My moneys on Salmond, as he clearly eats more pies, and also happens to be a natural leader.
40

An Beal Bacht,

15/10/2008 16:57:06
I'll leave you unionists to ponder this:

tinyurl.com/3kr4q5
41

Border Scot,

15/10/2008 16:57:09
#77 - Scotland has had the government it voted for since 1997. That is a simple fact.

42

john z,

edinburgh 15/10/2008 16:57:24
I ask again;

Why is Scotland the only oil producing nation in the developed world that cannot manage itself?? Why does Scotland need the Government of England to run it like a colony??

Get off your knees Scotland.
43

john z,

edinburgh 15/10/2008 16:59:17
Number 88

Any way we can speed the clock up, and get the English Government out of Scotland for good?
44

Border Scot,

15/10/2008 17:00:40
#90 - Och, we are just so oppressed aren't we? Poor wee us, those horrible English oppressing us all the time. We're just so weak and submissive and on our knees and oppressed by those dreadful English. Och, poor old Scotland.
45

Border Scot,

15/10/2008 17:01:18
#91 - How can we? We are so oppressed and weak and on our knees.
46

Border Scot,

15/10/2008 17:05:00
#91 - So no sensible answers to questions that will have to be addressed before any independence vote.
47

Border Scot,

15/10/2008 17:05:48
#93 - Why do you despise your fellow Scots so much?
48

Border Scot,

15/10/2008 17:06:37
#95 - So are saying Scotland did not vote Labour in 1997, 2001 and 2005? I am not sure many people will support you in that assertion.
49

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 15/10/2008 17:20:40
The Unionists may well highlight Iceland at the moment. Using it as a comparison of the Scottish economic model is highly suspect. They may be in the same part of Europe geographically in the same way as Liechtenstein and Switzerland, but beyond that they are chalk and cheese. Every country which is independent is free to go its own way to make its own decisions and deal with the consequences.

This present Iceland obsession of the unionsists may well come back to haunt them when that country in a couple of years time has put their current difficulties behind them and have learned from their errors. When they are no longer a basket case and British taxpayers are just starting to feel the effects of paying off the Chinese for bailing out our UK banks and we are still in recession as Salmond calls his referendum, then don't crtiicise the cybernats if they remind you that Iceland is back in the arc of prosperity and better off even after its crisis and than the UK is.

What goes around comes around.
50

ThomasP,

15/10/2008 17:36:24
Brown will run from this proposal. Salmond will eat Brown alive, you know it, I know it, the entire country knows it. I hope David Cameron mocks Brown and encourages him to take on Salmond head-to-head.
51

ThomasP,

15/10/2008 17:37:31
#111

The Banks will be allowed to buy back their shares. The Governments all around the world are not planning to keep ahold of the banks.

Scotland will be Independent.

;-)
52

ThomasP,

15/10/2008 17:40:17
#113

These events were not unforeseen. Barrack Obama appears to know the situation and even called for changes to be made several years ago (look up the presidential debates), several figures in Britain called for greater control because of the housing bubble... The world knew the problems were coming it was just a matter of when.
53

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 15/10/2008 18:06:01
I freely admit Iceland is going through a period of dire economic uncertainty, but it is not likely that that will remain the case. What I was saying was that it is unwise for the unionists to gloat on Iceland's present situation. when it will be eventually judged on its performance over the long term. Countries with especially small populations have their own unique circumstances which do not bear comparison with middle sized countries. It was foolish of Salmond to have highlighted Iceland as mire apt comparisons for Scotland are the likes of Norway, Denmark, Finland and possibly the Baltic republics.
54

steve52,

Kinfauns 15/10/2008 18:32:40
Have to laugh at all those labour numpties on here. So Scotland would not have survived the credit crunch or saved the banks. Scotland could have done what dithering Gordon done.........borrowed the money and paid high interest rates.

Brown would never dare to agree to such a debate even if it were possible.
55

The_Reiver,

15/10/2008 21:05:51
Mesage to Salmod: Sugh mo bhod, leam-leat, tolla-thon.

Which as good nationalists I'm sure you all understand.

Rach-air-muin SNP!
56

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 15/10/2008 22:01:05
"Alex Salmond has lost a helluva lot of credibilty in the past couple of weeks following the failure of HBOS and RBS."

Yawn. The Unionists have spent every day since May 2007 saying things they WISH were true, rather than things that actually are. It hasn't worked with the Scottish people so far, who keep backing the SNP increasingly with every poll, but hey - maybe one more day will do the trick, eh?
57

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 15/10/2008 22:37:49
Broon vs Salmon - what a bore that will be but my money would be on big Gordy as a man of slightly higher intellect that the spiv frae Linlithgow

 

Comment on this Story

 

In order to post comments you must Register or Sign In

 
 
 
  

 
 

Features

Featured Advertising



Sister Newspapers:
Press Complaints Commission

This website and its associated newspaper adheres to the Press Complaints Commission’s Code of Practice. If you have a complaint about editorial content which relates to inaccuracy or intrusion, then contact the Editor by clicking here.

If you remain dissatisfied with the response provided then you can contact the PCC by clicking here.