Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement


HBOS bank staff hit by bonus freeze

Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 15 January 2009
UP TO 10,000 staff in Bank of Scotland's corporate banking division are to miss out on tens of millions of pounds in performance-related pay-outs as the company is to cut bonuses for the first time in its history, it has emerged.
It is the first major Scottish institution to confirm it is to slash staff bonuses, but experts fear a wave of cuts is set to hit professions such as law and accountancy and in other financial-sector firms, such as Royal Bank of Scotland.

Bill Jamieson: Bonus freeze part of a chill that will see the wealthier shiver

Halifax Bank of Scotland (HBOS) employees usually receive their bonuses in April, and many use them to pay off mortgages or fund private school fees.

But staff were told this week that, as a result of the current economic situation, no bonuses – estimated to cost HBOS tens of millions of pounds a year – would be paid out for 2008.

The news came as bank shares plummeted yesterday on rumours that HSBC might tap shareholders for up to £20 billion in a rights issue, and a further 2,100 job cuts were announced at Barclays. HBOS shares ended the day 13.5 per cent lower at 70.1p, while RBS fared even worse, dropping 18.4 per cent to 41.7p.

A government rescue package to guarantee up to £20 billion of loans to help small companies survive the economic downturn was branded "too little, too late" by critics, who feared the cash would not be enough to boost business lending from banks. It was also announced that Mervyn Davies, the chairman of Standard Chartered, had ruled himself out of a senior post at RBS and taken up a position as a minister in the Department of Business.

Last night, in a further sign of the deepening crisis, John Varley, the chief executive of Barclays, said he backed "judicious" quantitative easing – effectively printing money – in order to get the economy moving again.

Yesterday's blow to staff at HBOS's corporate banking arm, which was formed in 2001, comes days after the retailer John Lewis warned that its Edinburgh store was set to become one of the chain's worst-performing as the credit crunch hits the spending power of the city's financial workers.

A spokesman for HBOS told The Scotsman: "We recognise that corporate colleagues have worked hard during 2008, but entitlement to bonuses has always been discretionary and it must be linked to business affordability. We therefore regret that no bonus awards will be made for 2008."

He added that it was currently only the corporate banking division that had been affected by the bonus cuts.

HBOS's Bank of Scotland Corporate division, which negotiates loans with business customers, employs about 10,000 people in the UK.

In recent months, it had more than £4 billion invested in property ventures alone, including substantial stakes in some of Scotland's most significant companies in the troubled commercial and residential property sector, including Miller Group and Cala.

On Monday, a court gave the green light to Lloyds TSB's £12 billion takeover of HBOS. Although no job losses have been confirmed, it is feared the deal could lead to up to 40,000 posts going, with Edinburgh expected to be among the cities hardest hit by redundancies.

Bryan Johnston, an analysts at the Edinburgh-based Bell Lawrie, warned that workers in the financial sector needed to rethink their attitudes to bonuses. He said: "With HBOS coming under the wing of Lloyds TSB, it is not surprising they will have to look at their costs closely. There is a feeling in some quarters that bonuses have become a God-given right, and we have to take a look at that and change the culture.

"People expect a bonus and are spending them a year before they receive them. Bonuses need to be returned to being a reward for exceptional work."

HBOS said almost all workers at the corporate division, which axed about 90 staff in May last year as the credit crunch began to take hold, were usually eligible for a bonus – only fairly new employees missed out.

The amount workers receive is usually calculated on the performance of their division, combined with the group's overall performance and their annual salary. But, according to the bank's annual report, bonuses "may be equivalent to 20 per cent of salary or more" – and could be as much as 70 per cent of salary for the division's highest-paid staff.

An industry insider said: "They held a briefing for the whole of the corporate banking side of the business and they were told there would be no bonuses. There were a lot of heads down and head-shaking going on when the announcement was made.

"The thing is, bonuses have become a way of life in the sector. Some people's view might be they should be performance-related, but it has become something bank workers expect and rely on."

Andrew Murphy, the general manager of the Edinburgh branch of John Lewis, warned last week that it was likely to suffer disproportionately from the economic downturn.

Roy Durie, a senior partner at Ryden consultants in Edinburgh, confirmed his fears. He said: "Until the situation with HBOS and its staff is sorted out, we won't really know how it's going to pan out for the economy, particularly in cities like Edinburgh, where there is a real need to start with a clean slate.

"Even if people are not losing their jobs, they are likely to have less money to spend without bonuses, and that will affect everything from leisure and licensed trade businesses to the property market."

He added: "There's no doubt this kind of thing can have a huge knock-on impact. We're already seeing the effect of this kind of thing in Edinburgh, where people just don't have the same kind of disposable income they had a year ago.

"You only have to go into a restaurant that would normally be full and see how easy it is to get a table. Edinburgh is much more vulnerable because of the amount of people who are employed in the banking sector."

Related articles

Bank shares plunge on day new rescue plan for companies unveiled

From Viagra-makers to Jaguar – jobs go

Lowest mortgage at 3% – but there's a catch

If anyone doubted scale of crisis, work even halts in Dubai on world's tallest tower


Page 1 of 1

 
1

Rufus-T-Firefly,

14/01/2009 22:31:26
This will keep Scrooge SNP MSP Alex Neil happy.

It was he that got all the Royal Bank of Scotland Chrismas Parties cancelled which were only subsidised at a level of £10 per employee.

I wonder if he had a Christmas Party last year.

And I wonder who paid for it.
2

,

14/01/2009 23:58:49
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
3

,

15/01/2009 00:07:33
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
4

Tris,

15/01/2009 00:28:12


#2. Agreed. There are a raft of them that should be facing jail sentences for the greed, stupidity and incompetence they have shown, and the resultant misery for millions of people.

While we are at it, the war crimminals Bush, Cheney, Blair, et al should be in the Hague along with other liars and degenerates like Mugabe.

5

,

15/01/2009 00:29:55
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
6

Jimmy Twoshoes,

15/01/2009 00:30:26
Tris - who do you include in your list of the guilty?

Am interested to see if you've applied any thought or just jumping on the bandwagon
7

Jimmy Twoshoes,

15/01/2009 00:31:33
Scott - some of us actually think reading is a valuable tool.
8

druidh,

edinburgh 15/01/2009 00:31:50
A real shame for the thousands of honest, hard-working bank workers who regarded this perk as part of their overall package. Quoting figures like "70% of salary" gives the impression that huge sums were involved. For most, it would be a four-figure sum and, as staff were encouraged to use that to buy shares, most of previous years bonuses have now been wiped out.
9

Jimmy Twoshoes,

15/01/2009 00:33:35
less than a minute into that video and the lies have started... I'm never getting those seconds back
10

Forward not Back,

15/01/2009 00:47:02
So, HBoS collapses and their employees expected a bonus? I give up - any wonder the UK (all of it) is headed for the third world?
11

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 15/01/2009 00:59:40


THIS BANK IS BEYOND BELIEVE!!!

HAVE YOU EVER SEEN SUCH ATROCIOUS BEHAVIOR??

Still not only do they (HBOS that is) charge, unfair and 'ripp-off' Bank Charges, like £40.00 per second, that you may be overdrawn, because you wages were paid in a second late on the due date!

NOW THIS!!

WHERE IS ALL THE MONEY GOING???????

ANSWER ME THAT?????

The "High Court" is in the final stages on making decision on the "unfair bank charges", Let us Hope we will get Justice!!




12

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 15/01/2009 01:01:50


oops, angry typo error should read,,

*behaviour*
13

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 15/01/2009 01:03:53




HBOS is 'well-flush'! and they KNOW IT!
14

Jimmy Twoshoes,

15/01/2009 01:08:01
talking guttertripe again I see charlie boy
15

Stuart F.,

Vancouver, Canada 15/01/2009 01:11:22
Charles is right - where is that money, your money going? It's a little better in Canada, but not by much.
And who decides the fate of the economy? Why the fear in the market? As Gov't's are poised to spend billions on economic recovery, the upper eschelons will certainly get their cut as we've just seen in the Excited States recently.
Conspiracy theories or not, there is something more serious and sinister going on behind closed doors.
16

Jimmy Twoshoes,

15/01/2009 01:16:11
Stuart - once you have paid your tax the money isn't yours anymore.

Children understand this concept, yet adults seem to struggle with it.
17

Stuart F.,

Vancouver, Canada 15/01/2009 02:05:49
#16 - Jimmy. I have no quarrel with rendering to Ceasar what is Ceasar's. However, it is the corporations that are cutting back on manpower creating joblessness, homelessness and economic ruin on the ordinary you and me. When Gov't spends money on the economy and it ends up in the pockets of corporate executives, eg. AIG... then someone is going to have to give account. The corporate sector must realize that profits over people will eventually lead them further into ruin because no one will have money to spend on their products.
18

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 15/01/2009 02:05:52

Jimmy Twoshoes ~14,

You know what you can do with your "two shoes"!,....

....'Stick them where, The Sun Don't Shine'!

My comment, is of reality and absolute Truth!


19

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 15/01/2009 02:19:03


I will be on HBOS's Back, until they, 'Buckle Down' and give apology, for the ones they treated unfairly, and they let down!

Their forefathers, will be, 'Turning in their Graves'

20

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 15/01/2009 02:31:09


BTW! HBOS, in their final stage of their demise, still, go on as if nothing has changed for them, or will be changed for them!

We Still have their, "Unfair, Ripp-Off, Bank Charges"!

We Still have their, "Dogmatic Attitude"!



21

Julian.,

edinburgh 15/01/2009 03:02:58
#17 cynicus in exile,

You are right in most of what you say.

Taking money back from previous years is a bit harsh. But what should have been done, and should be done now, is restructure bonuses so that they are paid in arrears.

Therefore you have to wait say 3 years to receive your bonus and it is based on how well the bank does today. So if you sold lots of mortgages in 2005 which turned into defaults in 2008 causing the bank to lose money you would get no bonus. Similarly if you loaned money out in 2008 and got most of it back over the next few years you would then get a healthy bonus in 2011. How does that sound?
22

The Real Me,

15/01/2009 03:47:21
Complaining about not getting a bonus....my heart is breaking...
23

Aslan,

Edinburgh 15/01/2009 04:01:20
#20 - and the rest of us will be on YOUR back until you learn to spell ... and, punctuate, correctly!

GIVE IT A REST, OLD YINN (SIC)!
24

Stef,

Edinburgh 15/01/2009 04:01:29
I feel the Mary Poppins story/saga has reached it's full pitch with regard to the HBoS. The HBoS should become a hit musical in all of it's historical dealings. Anyway it's not really called as it once was, the BoS, its the HBoS, having too be bailed out by the Halifax Building Society, following it's adventures into American evangelism. Google its history of its dealings with a certain Pat Robertson. A bank it calls itself, HUH! a horrible organism of silver haired materialist bookies of the lowest form,seeking to fleece its customers, particularly the poorest one's, parasites or vermin, you choose? A comment that I am sure that many of it's customers would agree with. It's now carrying on business with taxpayers money,still bankrupting folk,when all other business's with a level of credibility like itself would have been declared bankrupt. Any other defunct, cheapskate business should have been regulated years ago by what I guess what most people now see as an entirely corrupt establishment, both politically and financial. For the most senior bankers it should be criminal charges instead of bonus's. Let's see what emerges from the Loydstrussteesavingsbankhalifaxbankofscotland, just so many young people being groomed by these silver haired bookmakers into thinking that there is a career in ripping people off with seedy dealing. Keep your money under your pillow, look after yourself, learn and develop skills, be creative, produce something. I think most of us are tired of being payed in toy money, Monopoly dosh, by folk who are conditioned to believe that the 'Community Chest' is something too be robbed, and hope that a 'Chance card, might bail them out. The HBoS is a shameful organization, as is the RBS,and many others most are victims of 'Madoff' Google that guy for fun, lol. He is the champion bank robber of all time and an oldand trusted friend of the HBoS and RBS.
25

observer9,

15/01/2009 04:16:30
I take it Andy Hornby the HBOS Boss is still getting his sixty thousand pounds per month.

Thats £60K per month as the HBOS MBA Harvard genius who talked the talk and it was all hot air.
26

Dark Lochnagar,

Symington 15/01/2009 04:34:29
I got a letter in from the Clydesdale today "inviting" me to re-negotiate my overdraft. They will off course charge me for doing this. In the measntime I am told that if I go into overdraft after 29.1.09 and I don't have an agreement in place they are going to charge me 29.9%. This is an INCREDIBLE amount. My account has been in surplus all last year and they paid me something like 0.4%. What difference does it make to them that the interest rate is at 1.5%. They are ROBBING B@STARDS. TIME THEY WERE NATIONALISED!!!!!
27

Forward not Back,

15/01/2009 04:50:54
#27 - only problem is that if they were nationalised (all banks), the UK taxpayer could not support the liabilities. This will happen anyway, mind you, at this rate of going.
28

Mallory,

Edinburgh 15/01/2009 04:56:20
#3 Thanks for the link to the Evan Davies programme. An excellent example of why public service broadcasting needs to be retained.

Should be compulsory viewing not only for journalists but many 'boards of directors' and (S)MPs.
29

One-man-bucket's older twin,

15/01/2009 07:14:12
What I can't understand is why people in already well-paid jobs need bonuses. I understand commission on sales, but bonuses in the financial sector seem to be exponentially larger than anything a mere salesperson can win. I don't like the politics of envy, but the finance sector seems to operate on the politics of greed.
30

The Glasgow Ranger,

Edinburgh. 15/01/2009 08:05:48
No bonuses? - what the f*** did they expect?
31

The Glasgow Ranger,

Edinburgh 15/01/2009 08:07:02
#30,Zoology degree?
32

McTee,

15/01/2009 08:32:44
The vast majority of the bonuses in banks (including HBoS) are around 10% of salary, and the basic salary is reduced to accomodate (so the average basic salary for a job in Financial Services with the bonus is about 10% lower than the basic salary of an equivalent job without one). The bonus is not a perk to be added on top of a market rate salary.

These aren't all people on £100k salarys and 70% bonuses like everyone seems to be making out, these are people on an average of £25-30k, so would be getting £2,500-£3,000 bonus before tax.

All staff within the company will have been set targets to meet over the year so that the bank can reach its objectives set from on high. Now regardless of whether they have met or exceeded their targets, and how much work they have put in to do so, because the objectives from on high were completely incorrect, the staff are being punished.

Remember that 99% of the staff of the bank have no influence over the direction of the bank, and are blameless over what has happened, in fact most staff will have saved up bank shares over the years to cover their retirement, and have lost tens of thousands of pounds over the last couple of years. Now the people who are responsible are leaving with hefty payoffs and the rest of the staff are being left to pick up the pieces whilst being hammered in the pocket for other people's incompetence.
33

SS,

15/01/2009 08:49:12
Number 3 - you're on the money. That's why he got the Today gig on radio 4.

Preston is merely a 'punter', symptomatic of the BBC's steady dumbing down demise. I've stopped watching the simply undefendable, absolute rubbish that is its once flagship news programme, Breaskfast. And don't even get me started on the One Show. Sorry off topic now a nd a huge BBC rant developing. I'll go make breakfast.
34

Fecker,

15/01/2009 08:50:46
"quantitative easing" - printing more money, is this the final throw of the dice?? It sounds that way to me
35

cabrach loon,

inverness 15/01/2009 08:51:53
The problem seems to be the recent trend for CEO's in both companies and govt to consider themselves gods and wholly indispensible, setting the overlarge salaries of themselves and cronies and bleeding the shareholders. An adjustment is long overdue with a more equitable sharing.
The same applies to final salary pensions and golden handshakes for top management who are fired both of which are ultimately unsustainable. Adjustment is overdue but for sure those at the top will still gain at the expense of those lower down.
36

SteveSC,

15/01/2009 08:53:07
Why do people in the financial sector need bonuses to do the job they are paid to do? A nurse doesn't get a bonus to empty bed pans. Bonuses encourage short-term thinking and short-term commitment to the job. Why not reward good workers with a pay rise or promotion. That way good people will want to stay in the job long-term and make the compeny prosper.
37

Phil1,

Edinburgh 15/01/2009 08:59:45
Well as a shareholder that lost 90% of my value in investing with this bank and as a taxpayer that had to bail it out I am delighted the useless dtaff who caused the problems are not now going to get a bonus.

They are lucky to keep their jobs any other firm that behaved so badly would have been allowed to go bankrupt.

I would have preferred to close this useless bank and sack the equally uselesss ataff and put the money towards saving woolworth's 30,000 staff who hadn't done anything crooked and reckless and they all lost their jobs never mind just a Christmnas party and bonus cancellation.
38

Grumpy,

15/01/2009 09:05:05
yes - Andy Hornby will still get his £60k per month while many of the ex-Bank of Scotland staff continue to work enthusiastically and professionally despite never having had a rise in salray for the past 7 years since HBOS was formed and their positions taken over by Halifax people.
39

jimbob57,

Glasgow 15/01/2009 09:06:00
AS far as I can see this article is about bonus payments paid to the corporate banking staff. At a guess their salaries are typicaly 40 000 to 150 000, with bonuses of up to the same again. So it is easy to see this has a big effect on their take home.
What would have been a surprise is if the bank had paid them bonuses since it is now apparent that their last few years work has bust the bank.
40

McTee,

15/01/2009 09:14:51
"As far as I can see this article is about bonus payments paid to the corporate banking staff. At a guess their salaries are typicaly 40 000 to 150 000"

No, the Corporate Banking staff doesn't just include the Corporate salesmen, it also included all of the operations, back office, call centre and IT functions on the Corporate side. So the salaries will from £10k upwards, with a typical 10% bonus.
41

The Ayrshire Bard,

15/01/2009 09:42:55
The objective of a bonus is to encourage people to go that bit further in the execution their duties. Extra effort should equate to higher profits from which bonuses can then be paid. In the banking world this encouraged the promotion of ridiculously extravagant loans and mortgages which in turn fuelled the house price boom which has now gone bust. Banking bonuses were never truly earned and have contributed hugely to the perilous state that we are now in.
42

Highland Mist,

15/01/2009 10:04:29
Ok guys - NO BONUSES SHOULD BE PAID TO ANY BANK STAFF BECAUSE THE REST OF US ARE NOW SUFFERING BECAUSE OF THEM.

Furthermore: As soon as the banks were'rescued' at OUR expense once more, the Government should have passed emergency legislation to regulate, clear out, fire those at the top WITHOUT compensation or bonuses and to make a total overhaul of the system. THE BONUS SCHEMES ARE STILL EXISTING - FRONTLINE STAFF ARE ON BONUSES TO SELL, SELL, SELL. What the hell is going on? Talk about Nero fiddling!! Come on Government, GET IT SORTED BEFORE WE'RE ALL IN THE SOUP HOUSE.
43

Highland Mist,

15/01/2009 10:08:15
WHY SHOULD SOMEONE GET PAID MASSIVE BONUSES JUST TO DO THEIR JOB? I THOUGHT THAT THAT WAS WHAT SALARIES WERE ABOUT.

THE BONUS SYSTEM IN RETAIL AND CORPORATE HAS BEEN ABUSED AND HAS RUINED OUR COUNTRY BECAUSE OF MIS-SELLING THAT HAS BEEN VIRTUALY DEVOID OF ANY REGULATION. NOW IT'S THE POOR BEGGARS (LITERALLY) WHO HAVE BEEN MIS-SOLD WHO ARE PAYING THORUGH BANKRUPTCY(!) FOR THE VIRTUE OF HAVING BEEN CONNED BY THOSE WHO WERE MAKING THOUSANDS OF POUNDS FROM THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

THIS MONEY HAS GONE SOMEWHERE - WHERE IS IT?!
44

Highland Mist,

15/01/2009 10:11:49
#40, Hey Grumpy, bet you had plenty BONUSES though! I know of one part time student on a 12 hour per week contact who will be collecting a £2000 bonus for selling in retail as a Saturday job - so what the heck are those of you further up collecting.

As for the audacity to mention PAY RISES - welcome to the real world and have some humility for those who are homeless, redundant or facing a 4 day week right now because of the bank and the actions of its staff from senior to junior (lovely long weekends to London, New York etc etc etc)!!!!!!!!!!!
45

A.Banker,

Edinburgh 15/01/2009 10:15:05
As an employee of HBOS for nearly 10 years, currently working under the "Corporate umbrella" can I just clarify a few points for the dumb;
I work a 40 hr week for just under £17k therefore dispelling the myth that corporate employees are well paid. My children do not go to private school nor do we live in a "leafy suburb luxury apartment" in Edinburgh. I have 2 children, one at University who I have to subsidise as her grant is means tested on my pittance of a pay and the powers that be think I can, to the tune of £1200 per year. My youngest child has just secured a University place and again I will be required to help fund this. I'm in no way complaining as I, as a parent want to contribute to their further education to try and ensure they do not have to work for a shower of criminals for a pittance like I do. My "bonus" is an integral part of my annual salary and taken into consideration when my children or I apply for any kind of assistance. I stupidly invest my bonus in shares each year - planning for my future as the pension offered by my employer is also very poorly funded - this too has now been wiped out. So in conclusion, please do not lump us in with the Hornbys and @ssholes who run this business into the ground, some of us just try our hardest to work and live with little or no recognition.
46

Highland Mist,

15/01/2009 10:17:07
Conclusion: the only way to resolve this and stop it from happening again is to STOP bunus system in both banking and Financial Services sector with immediate effect.
47

Highland Mist,

15/01/2009 10:19:43
#47, you must have knon what the salary was when you took the job? If you want more money can I respectfully suggest that you do another job instead of expecting a 'bonus' for doing the same one, because the 'bonus' scheme has brought financial havoc and catastrophy to this world by selling debt to people who cannot pay it back.
48

subrosa,

15/01/2009 10:20:07
Banking bonuses are just the tip of the iceberg. What about the massive bonuses given to civil servants? The last one, which took my breath away, was the bloke who messed up the tests for our young scholars. He walked away with a sum most of us would never earn in a lifetime.

This bonus culture has to stop. If an employee doesn't meet the expectations of the company then they should employ someone who will.
49

Highland Mist,

15/01/2009 10:21:23
#47, what 'recognition' do you want to achieve for selling debt to people who can't pay it back? Oh and yes, I KNOW how the bonus system works.
50

Highland Mist,

15/01/2009 10:23:31
#50 is correct. What also needs addressing is the entire public sector and how pensions are paid, bonuses, early retirement etc. Those in the private sector have been subsidising for far too long and WE are the onew who have to keep the wheels of industry turning throughout this entire debacle.
51

Rosscobhoy,

15/01/2009 10:27:17
I was about to say something along the lines of post 47. I worked for Clydesdale Bank for 3 years(I left just over a year ago) and my basic salary when leaving was £13k. Had it not been for performance related bonuses i'd have been better off unemployed. Not everyone who works for a bank earns lots of money with massive bonuses. While it sickens me that those who caused this are making a fortune, the ones at the bottom have done nothing wrong other than follow the orders given by those at the top.
52

fegan,

N/Ireland 15/01/2009 10:39:47
Croneyism is the biggest culprit it the Banking World.
They find a good thing and milk it for all its worth and invite there friends in the dark world of corporate Banking to participate.The Government having invested so much tax payers money must legislate to eradicate the Bonus culture, starting at the top, salaries of 60k a mouth are ridiculous and ALL BONUSES, GOLDEN HADNSHAKES call it what you will, must be stopped with IMMEDIATE effect and the money put to better use.
If they don't want to work for the money available let them resign.NO BONUSES should be paid until the mess that they created is cleared up if ever, and bonuses should only be paid out of Profit not potential Profit. How can any one expect to get a bonus from a company that is techniquely BUST only for the good grace of the TAX Payer
53

Rudi Hucker,

Uddingston 15/01/2009 10:52:27
We must remember that it wasn't actually bankers who caused the problem. Hornby and Goodwin are, respectively, grocer and lawyer-turned-accountant.

The value in BoS, built over decades by prudent management and guidance by Sir Bruce Pattulo, started to decline sharply when the merger with Hellifax went ahead. The merged institutions quickly forgot their roots and jumped on the easy-money bandwagon.

It is notable that, for all its faults, the Clydesdale, headed by a banker, is not being propped up by the taxpayer.
54

shivago8,

livingston 15/01/2009 10:55:45
The lot of them should get "Blankedly Blank" the bloody state they got the bank into.
Should imagine they are not worried as they would have the privilege position knowing they were going down the SCHUTE,pity they did,nt forearm us.
Barstewards
55

Dark Lochnagar,

Symington 15/01/2009 11:19:27
#47. Merchant Banker. I am fed up to the back teeth of people with kids expecting the rest of us to support them. IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD THEM, DON'T HAVE THEM.
56

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 15/01/2009 11:20:57
Thanks for the explanation 34, but i have to take issue with your caveat (99% have no influence of the direction of the bank...)

So you are all blameless and deserve a bonus ?

Dont make me laugh. You are all adults, you are all free to leave, and if the best thing you can do with your life is sell loans to people for the hope of an extra 3k (after tax?) a year then i pity you.

Enough nonsense written about the banks already. The reason they are protected by the goverment is bcause of OUR money, not because of the back office armies. Frankly I couldnt care less if you dont get your bonus, in the same way i couldnt care less about under performing retail outlets or cowboy plumbing businesses.

was it REALLY wise to offer 8x salary mortgages ? Did none of your faceless 99% even question this madness ?



57

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 15/01/2009 11:23:13
53 then thats basically your lack of ambition. Dont give me the excuse of following orders. You didnt HAVE to do that job.
58

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 15/01/2009 11:26:21
47 At least the "Hornbys" showed some gumption. What do you want ? Pity because you took a crappy job with a crappy bank which went under ?

Do you understand ANYTHING about business ? Your share price has dropped 90% in under a year. Come Monday, there will be no shares. Within a year at least 50% of HBOS staff will be gone ! And you are greeting about your bonus !!

get out !

good luck, i guess.
59

Lianachan,

Highlands 15/01/2009 11:27:46
Losing their bonuses will fade into insignificance once they start losing their jobs, I'm afraid. Well done, Mandy, Brown, etc..
60

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 15/01/2009 11:31:53
42 is right though. The vast majority of people working in Scottish finance DONT earn huge salaries.

The vast majority are stupid enough to think that working for a financial company is reward enough in itself and is somehow better than being a leckie .

:P

ok, stopping now. schadenfraude eh.

Last request, please remove the "corporate Banking" dollies from the bottom of the steps in Edinburgh airport. We really dont want one of your credit cards.
61

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 15/01/2009 11:48:27
The reason the retail outlets are going bust is lack of cashflow, eg lending. Where does it come from ?

Yep, another thing you can lay at the door of the 99% blameless. What are they ? Automatons ?
62

El Sabio,

South Africa 15/01/2009 11:54:03
What about those who do not have work!?

Or is it

"Unto them that have more shall be given" ?
63

Elephant,

Linlithgow 15/01/2009 12:19:36
"We recognise that corporate colleagues have worked hard during 2008." I love that bit. Worked hard at what exactly? Hiding risks and losses? Destroying the credit system? If they'd actually been working hard they'd have soplved this crisis before it started. I used to work in London and shgare a train with these banker people (I know they inhabit Edinburgh too)- and used to beat myself up for despising their behaviour (all the smug suited unsmiling blackberry using 4 x 4 driving refusing to give their seat to pregnant people attitudes). Now I give myself a pat on the back for being so self-righteouss. Of 'course their demise will bring down millions of the rest of us in the pricess, but we're at least used to eeking out a living.
64

Rosscobhoy,

15/01/2009 12:21:57
#59

You're correct, i didn't have to do the job. Part of the reason i left was that i spent most of the 3 years complaining to my supervisors that i was uncomfortable with the mis selling of loans, mortgages and insurance to people who clearly could not afford it. I was told at the time that it was my job and as long as i was there i'd have to do it their way, which i did until i found something worth moving onto.
65

forestry,

DUNS 15/01/2009 12:21:57
#47. A bonus is a bonus regardless of your salary and is certainly not an integral part of your salary. Welcome to the real world ! £17000 in the Scottish Borders is a great salary! Wake up and smell the coffee!
66

Hermitage,

Edinburgh 15/01/2009 12:30:21
Tough.

They are damned lucky have jobs at all.

No doubt there will be even more whingeing when the unemployment axe starts to fall.
67

Shorthouse,

15/01/2009 13:24:09
#67: You might think a bonus isn't an integral part of a salary but most folk do - starting with the taxman.

#60: don't think anyone was asking for pity. They were just pointing out that you've got a fairly weak grasp on the pay structure of most major private sector employers.
68

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 15/01/2009 13:24:54
66 I'm sorry for being harsh.. good luck. You did the right thing.
69

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 15/01/2009 13:28:01
70 not content with greeting about not getting a bonus, you want one tax free as well ?

You better get moving son. and quick.
70

Sumlogic,

DONT KNOW NOW 15/01/2009 13:42:14
When are people going to realise that the finance system is not fit for purpose!

Never learning from history and making the same mistakes over and over and the Government are no better...

Imagine the Irony in this!

"No more boom and bust" to "maybe we will have to start printing money"????

NO excuses, its a bloody mess and the UK is sinking further into debt everyday, just like the folk who live in it... delusional, spending money they don’t have on stuff they don’t need...at 19% interest!!!!

What a bunch of shallow numpties we have become!

Still people think its a shock that they wont get a bonus from a company that set the record for a banking stock market plunge and was almost wiped out??? Are these people serious?? Are they delusional?

Still demanding more services for less money and of course FREE this and FREE that...there is NO FREE, someone somewhere will pay the bill unless your Labore and try and HIDE the bill under some fancy jargon like PPP, just like the banks did with their toxic debts!

Were in deep sh!t as a country and folk still just don’t get it.
71

Shorthouse,

15/01/2009 13:42:16
#72 When did I 'greet' about not getting a bonus? Just pointing out that a bonus is factored in to most people's income, not seen as a nice wee extra. Think I'm wrong? Have a look at the job ads - nearly every white collar job salary is described as 'basic + bonus'.
72

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 15/01/2009 14:10:01
74 you are obviously young and i wish you well, but dont confuse white collar with Telemarketeer jobs.

"Selling" jobs normally attract bonus.
73

Lenny,

15/01/2009 15:24:39
People seem to assume that all Corporate Staff are on big wages and only sell debt! Complete rubbish. Corporate Staff would include IT, Support Staff, Processors, Communications Teams ect ect. I personally find it hard to attribute the blame for the Financial Troubles on these guys.

74

Rednose Harry,

Wallasey 15/01/2009 15:55:07
#2#4
Bang on the money.How come people in these and other institutions keep being rewarded for failure when the honest workers pay the price in job losses and the misery that accrues.They shoud be facing charges not being cossetted,
Good to see the legal profession taking a hit too.We've had enough of "blamedirect" and it's cronies with their tv ads invading our living rooms ad nauseum.
75

Shorthouse,

15/01/2009 16:30:50
#75: Thanks Cowboy - been a while since anyone said I was young!!!

And forgive me for saying so, but I think you're missing the point. For one reason or anther, thousands of workers rely on bonuses to make up their salary. It's the reason they settle for a lower wage.

It's easy to say, from a distance, that workers who don't like it should quit but in the real world that's not an option - unless you'd like to see the dole queues swollen by folk who quit their job on a point of principle?
76

AlasdairM,

15/01/2009 18:48:13
#47 - I completely agree with you. HBOS has for years admitted that their basic salary package isn't the best in the business, however this is always bolstered by the 'Total Reward' of a bonus plus other share incentives.

I think it's very unfair for hard working employees with no influence or involvement in credit policies to be tarred with the same brush as those in senior positions who continued to lend into high risk sectors under the banner of 'supporting entrepeneurs' and other such garbage. HBOS have continued to lend into the property sector when other banks have cut their exposure in the hope that the sector will eventually recover.
77

Gie's a break,

Edinburgh 15/01/2009 18:52:11
After everything that happened in 2008 the biggest surprise is that ANY HBOS staff actually thought they would get a bonus. If they can't connect the dots on as straightforward a scenario as this one we are ALL living through, then it doesn't augur well for the future of HBOS or the Financial services industry.
78

Shave,

Edinburgh 15/01/2009 20:37:41
#78 Shorthouse - "thousands of workers rely on bonuses to make up their salary".

Rely? It's a bonus if you get it but to 'rely' on it isn't very clever. In the current climate having any confidence that a bonus would be forthcoming seems misplaced.

Even when things were going well in the economy relying on a bonus to supplement a wage was folly.



79

fegan,

N/Ireland 15/01/2009 22:11:03
Dose the staff at Banks not understand a simple balance sheet.
No Money, No Profit,No Idea.
The money is not the banks, it is ours the tax payer with out that there would be NO Bank.
take a coarse in Reality.
80

Jimmy Twoshoes,

15/01/2009 22:40:06
There seems to be a common stupidity, shown by fegan most recently.

The money you have PAID in tax is no longer yours. Not a difficult concept to grasp. I can't go into a newsagent and buy a paper then expect to tell the shopkeeper what he can and can't do with my 50p..

Secondly, people are suggesting HBOS staff expected bonuses this year. You'd be hard pushed to find anyon in the company (senior management aside I'd guess) that expected anything, until some idiot felt it necessary to release a poorly worded communication saying they could expect lower bonus etc.

Logic will tell you nothing is coming your way, and that's just fine... so for goodness sake use some of your own logic and don't assume everyone in the company is a greedy naive selfish person.

81

Billy Boy,

Sherman Oaks 16/01/2009 03:11:17
Tris, No 4; C'mon now Mugabe isn't that bad, how about Ehud Omert?
82

fegan,

N/Ireland 16/01/2009 13:08:14
Stupidity seems in plentiful supply. Billy Boy seems to have his fair share of it and obviously has a vested interest. Money collected in TAX is Public money taken by the Government in order to run the country on behalf of the public Simple.
The news agent is self employed therefor he is entitled to spent his money in what ever fashion he so chooses.The spending of tax payers money is up for Public scrutiny, the News Agent is not, Get the gist or is it to complex for You
83

fegan,

N/Ireland 16/01/2009 15:45:06
Apologies to Billy Boy my Comments where meant to be directed to Jimmy Twoshoes
84

Jimmy Twoshoes,

16/01/2009 15:57:10
and you talk about stupidity.....


I pity you
85

Amber321,

Glasgow 16/01/2009 20:27:11
As an Hbos employee its upsetting to read the venom which some people above talk about us. I have worked for corporate for 12 years, not selling anything to anyone but rather in operations. The salary we all receive are, and have been acknowledged by Andy Hornby himself, below market value, however this is compensated by an annual lump sum which is 10% of our salary IF we meet the stretching targets. The full package is what we are told will be earned for doing our job. I agree that by definition a BONUS should mean in addition, however within Hbos this was actually part of our take home pay. We dont want any pity from anyone and we are just as shocked and outraged at the rise and fall of the company as everyone else. Might I remind everyone that we are all well aware of the tax payers money that has been pumped into several banks... WE ARE TAX PAYERS TOO. So in essence we are paying to stay in our jobs. Yes no one is forcing me to stay there however in the current climate, with a mortgage and children no one in their right mind would leave a full time job and enter into the job market when unemployment is rising.

Not sure if it escaped anyones notice but RBOS employees got their bonus.
86

fegan,

N/Ireland 17/01/2009 11:46:31
Thanks Jimmy Twoshes your a pal
87

Ewan Oosami,

17/01/2009 15:08:33
The situation should be; if you do your job and meet your targets your bonus should be that you KEEP your job. You are already getting paid to do yor job, do it and you keep it, fail and you're out.
That would focus a few greedy minds
88

Tobyjudd,

London 18/01/2009 21:28:18
...a friend of mine started dating an HBOS Corporate Sales Director last year, he is based in one of the London offices. She was about to leave him till he announced his £300,000 bonus last March. Now she is marrying him. I wonder if she still will...I also wonder whether he will still have a job after the merger takes shape, when many of those who work hard in the branch network, operations or elsewhere in the support services lose theirs...
89

Hombre,

Tertiary Office, Espana 20/01/2009 07:44:19
As a customer of Bank of Scotland (Corporate never used the 'H' with me) and now seemingly Lloyds, can I say I know a few associate directors within Corporate/Real Estate and they ar excellent chaps/chapesses...However right now their hands are tied by upper management, whom in turn, are awaiting LLoyds take on the whole matter... before issuning new lending terms etc,. Unfortunately, we are all going into liquidation in the interim and to my absolute horror I hear of a few suicides occuring already confirming my view we are in a Depression in all but name.
90

Hombre,

Tertiary Office, Espana 20/01/2009 07:46:56
PS: My point? Up until last weekend I have been saying to my business pals 'well... get real, at least no one's died'. I can't say that anymore.

 

Comment on this Story

 

In order to post comments you must Register or Sign In

 
 
 
  

 
 


Sister Newspapers:
Press Complaints Commission

This website and its associated newspaper adheres to the Press Complaints Commission’s Code of Practice. If you have a complaint about editorial content which relates to inaccuracy or intrusion, then contact the Editor by clicking here.

If you remain dissatisfied with the response provided then you can contact the PCC by clicking here.