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Has Mr Speaker lost the confidence of the House?



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Published Date: 08 December 2008
COMMONS Speaker Michael Martin was last night under intense pressure to stand down for failing to prevent counter-terrorism police raiding the parliamentary offices of a Tory MP.
The findings of a poll of backbench MPs were set to trigger a parliamentary revolt, after more than one in three respondents said they no longer had confidence in Glasgow MP Mr Martin in the wake of the Damian Green affair.

One former deputy speak
er called on Mr Martin to announce plans to retire next year, while Tory leader David Cameron refused to say he had confidence in the Speaker. With MPs disregarding parliamentary convention by openly discussing Mr Martin's future, the scene was being set for what appears to be the first enforced removal of a Speaker.

Ahead of a Commons debate today on the fallout from the arrest of Mr Green on 27 November, a BBC survey found 32 of 90 MPs prepared to discuss the Speaker's future no longer retained confidence in his ability to protect the independence of the Commons.

These included eight Labour MPs, 14 Tories and seven Liberal Democrats. Another 50 considered the Speaker "culpable" for the raid.

At least three MPs have already called on Mr Martin, who has been dogged by controversy since becoming Speaker in 2000, to quit. But yesterday's poll prompted several high-profile politicians to add their voices to growing uncertainty about his chances of survival.

Temperatures were further raised by a newspaper report suggesting Mr Martin was determined to remain Speaker after the next general election – a story his spokeswoman then downplayed.

Shadow home secretary Dominic Grieve said: "That (another term] is a matter for MPs to decide, not for the Speaker to decide."

Tory peer Lord Naseby, who was a deputy speaker under the popular previous speaker, Betty Boothroyd, said Mr Martin had made a "very big mistake" by failing to block the police raid and should retire next year to allow a new speaker to get to grips with the role before the next general election.

Lord Naseby, the former Tory MP Michael Morris, said: "Why the Speaker was not in the lead role (over the Green search] is something I find absolutely incomprehensible.

"He needs to reflect on that situation. I don't think it is for the members to necessarily put down a motion of no confidence, because that is a very drastic stage, but he needs to reflect on his position, frankly. In my judgment, he has let the House of Commons down."

Sir Malcolm Rifkind, the former Tory foreign secretary, said he had been "greatly surprised and very, very disturbed" at Mr Martin's role in the Green affair. "I don't think I am being controversial in saying I don't think that Speaker Martin will go down as one of the great speakers of the House of Commons," he said.

Last week, Gordon Brown's spokesman was forced to make clear that the Prime Minister had confidence in Mr Martin after Labour's deputy leader, Harriet Harman, had failed to give him her explicit backing.

Tory leader David Cameron, asked yesterday if he had confidence in the Speaker, was cautious. He said: "I want to have the confidence we should all have in the Speaker's office and the Speaker, and that needs to be put right."

Ministers attempted to sidestep questions about Mr Martin's future, but there was cross-party concern at the fallout from the raid on Mr Green's office.

A government motion that would prevent police from entering parliament without a warrant is due to be debated by MPs today, but the Tories were furious at attempts to delay an internal inquiry until the conclusion of a police probe into the leak of confidential Home Office documents to Mr Green.

Despite calls for MPs to avoid "tribal" party politics, today's debate is shaping up to be an acrimonious battle along party political lines.

In an emergency statement to the Commons last Wednesday, Mr Martin denied authorising the police raid but revealed he had been warned twice by the Serjeant at Arms – the most senior security official in the House of Commons – that it was imminent. Many MPs are angry that Mr Martin failed to seek advice on the legality of such a raid.

The backbench rebels first to demand that Mr Martin quit were Labour's Bob Marshall-Andrews, Tory Douglas Carswell and Respect's George Galloway.

Yesterday, Norman Lamb, a Lib-Dem frontbencher, said it was "unfair" that the Speaker had sought to lay the blame at the door of the Serjeant at Arms, Jill Pay.

"It is right to say MPs are reluctant to criticise any speaker, but I couldn't just sit on my hands when a senior member of staff was treated in that way and, ultimately, we become complicit if we remain silent," Mr Lamb told the BBC.

Stephen Ladyman, a former Labour transport minister, said MPs had to put the protection of democracy and the ability of MPs to do their jobs on behalf of constituents ahead of any personal loyalty to Mr Martin. Mr Ladyman said: "It is a serious matter for a member of parliament to lose confidence in the Speaker.

"We will be incredibly distressed if the inquiry throws up evidence of any level of culpability in the Speaker, that he had the opportunity to do something about it but didn't do it."

But Margaret Beckett, the Labour housing minister, accused the Tories of seeking to influence the police inquiry into the Home Office leak. She said: "I genuinely think this is getting close to intimidation of the police."

The Green affair and what happened when

MICHAEL Martin was first informed of the police plan to raid the parliamentary office of a Tory MP on 26 November, the day before it took place.

He was informed of this by the Sergeant at Arms, Jill Pay, effectively the head of security in the Commons. At that stage, neither the Speaker nor Ms Pay knew the identity of the MP in question.

The following morning, Ms Pay was visited by Metropolitan police officers at 7am, given the background to their investigation – they were following a complaint from the top civil servant at the Home Office, Sir David Normington, about the leak of sensitive government information to the Conservatives – and given Damian Green's name.

She called Mr Martin, passed on Mr Green's name, and said a search may be about to take place on the Commons office of the Ashford MP and immigration spokesman.

Mr Martin said last Wednesday that he was not told by Ms Pay that police did not have a warrant. Nor did police explain, as he said they were required to do, that Commons authorities were entitled to refuse access or to insist on a warrant. "I did not personally authorise the search," Mr Martin insisted to MPs.

He said he was only informed on 2 December that Mr Green had been held on suspicion of conspiring to commit misconduct in public office and on suspicion of aiding and abetting misconduct in public office.

But the Speaker's failure to seek legal advice in advance of the raid has caused many MPs to question his judgment.

Removal of a Speaker not in the rulebook

THE removal of a Speaker against his wishes defies modern parliamentary convention as the system is designed to offer as great a protection as possible from government interference.

As the representative of MPs rather than the executive, the Speaker is generally allowed to continue in office until he or she wishes to retire. The alternative is that they die in office, which last happened in 1943.

Parliamentary textbooks are silent on the last occasion a Speaker was forced from office, the normal convention being that the incumbent simply retires from Parliament at a general election. Speakers choosing to retire mid-parliament are immediately elevated to the House of Lords, sparking a by-election.

New procedures for electing the Speaker were agreed in 2001 but have yet to be used. It would involve a secret ballot if there is more than one candidate.

A sitting Speaker would declare in advance of a general election that he or she wished to stand again. That would mean there would be no challenge from a Labour, Tory or Lib-Dem candidate – although in Scotland the SNP has refused to abide by this convention and has challenged Michael Martin.

The most likely way to remove Mr Martin would be a delegation of senior figures led by the Father of the House, the longest-serving MP. But public indications from a sizeable number of MPs – in particular, party leaders – would be enough to force a Speaker to indicate they intend to stand down at or before the next general election.







The full article contains 1467 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 07 December 2008 9:13 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

subrosa,

08/12/2008 00:41:20
Is that an axe Gordon Brown's carrying?
2

One-man-bucket's older twin,

08/12/2008 01:14:52
Labour's overweening arrogance in going against parliamentary precedent and appointing a speaker of the same party as government has come back to bite them in the bum. Good! The sooner this inverted snob (who seems quite greedy to grasp all the advantages he despises others for having) gets his fat ass off the woolsack, the better!
3

Cynicus in Exile,

08/12/2008 01:21:39
"The sooner this inverted snob (who seems quite greedy to grasp all the advantages he despises others for having) gets his fat ass off the woolsack, the better!"-3
One-man-bucket's older twin,08/12/2008 01:14:52

The woolsack is not where his a.r.s.e (are you American?) is. It's on the Speaker's Chair in the House of Commons not the Lord Chancellor's bum rest in the other house.
4

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 08/12/2008 01:26:28


subrosa ~1,

It Certanliy looks like it, he must want to see,....

....'Heads Roll'!!

5

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 08/12/2008 01:40:33


Cynicus in Exile ~4,

"One-man-bucket's" Judging by that "axe" Brown is carring, that is precisely where Martin's head will end up in. :)

6

One-man-bucket's older twin,

08/12/2008 02:02:00
#4 Cynicus - sorry about the woolsack - a bit carried away there. I am not American but I know from experience that the 'R' in ass will be moderated. However, I stand by my sentiment. Get rid of the bum!
7

Dark Lochnagar,

Symington 08/12/2008 02:04:43
Whilst I agree that Martin is a walking disaster area, I was incensed by that Pr!ck Gerald Warner in Scotland on Sunday who insists on calling him "Gorbals Mick". He may be hopeless but surely cheapshot class bigotry is uncalled for in today's world.
8

Jim Baxter RIP,

Sai Kung, Hong Kong 08/12/2008 02:43:09
Time to go Micky Bhoy.
9

Finlang,

France (and China too) 08/12/2008 03:01:44
#8 Dark Lochnagar

Couldn't agree more with your sentiments, both about Martin and the odious Warner. I once wrote to The Scotsman inviting them to replace Warner's sour byline pic with a photo of a coo's èrse. Needless to say, they didn't comply.

I see Warner's page is nowadays shared by another utterly odious fake "Scotsman". One called Michael Gove (Tory MP for a part of far south-east Surreyshire), whom you may have occasionally clocked on TV. His excruciatingly embarrassing faker-than-fake English accent puts slackjaw Brown to shame. Another bloody disgrace in the name of Scotland. Time to unload these people.

10

Ju@n Kerr - the ex labour sheep,

08/12/2008 03:14:41
10 - Warner Brown et all remind me of Adam Smith And david Hume. Both could write perfect English but despised their "scots and barbaric toungues" Seems as a Scot after 300 years your still not accpeted as is?
11

Ju@n Kerr - the ex labour sheep,

08/12/2008 03:16:06
The trouble is though, and we see by the fact every party voted for him as speaker(nobody votes against)He can cling on in his job irrespective of what they say.
12

Willie Macleod,

Wick 08/12/2008 03:20:10
#8 #10 Good posts on Warner I agree.
13

Just an opinion,

USA 08/12/2008 03:35:35
We watch PM's Question Time over here, and unless you are of the sort who votes for a red parrot irrespctive of all else, 'Gorbals Mick' as the Daily Mail sketch writer christened him, is an embarrassment to the Speaker's Chair.
Quentin Letts of the Mail might not be Labour's best friend, but he gives it to 'em all, and the Speaker is a sitting duck on an almost daily basis - and I'm also a Scot!!!!!
I've never voted Conservative, never will, but I have abstained many times because of dipsticks like Michael Martin.
His handling of the 'Greengate' afair, simply shows a man who has reached a position way above his head - something like George W. Bush, and we all suffer from the resultant fall out as cronies persist in turning a blind eye to abysmal performances, and support his position irregardless of the ongoing illwill he generates.
14

Finlang,

France (and China too) 08/12/2008 03:41:14
#11/12
Wang Kerr (Spanish-Scots equivalent of a good ole Chinese name!)

Adam Smith and David Hume, yes. Venerated by the high and mighty in our times. But what you mention is conveniently forgotten. They, and others like Carlyle and Johnson's sh!t-grovelling Boswell, are wonderful templates for the worst of Scotch main-chancers.

We value their minds but not their characters.


15

DGR,

Coolangatta 08/12/2008 03:44:42
So much for history. Probably Michael Martin would be completely blindsided by the phrase - The Birds have Flown.
16

Finlang,

France (and China too) 08/12/2008 03:45:58
Lost last line from #15 above ...

But not the aforementioned Warner and Gove. Scoundrels both.
17

Ju@n Kerr - the ex labour sheep,

08/12/2008 04:18:30
#15 - finlang - Indeed it is much forgotten but treachery allways clings to those who practice it, not even BARRY SCOTT(sorry for shoutin) and cilit BANG(sorry ,did i scare ya) will wash away the other son of Kirkaldy's treachery or wee windy and her trojan horse Calman.

Even the SNP has it's own version. A comment that has bothered me for some time to be honest.The blogger Tactical voter described a well meaning and sincere woman who wished John Mason luck by saying "haste ye back!" SNP tactical voting described her as "some cheesey woman wishing john mason luck with the words haste ye back...."

I think someone has been feeling inferior in his own skin whilst sitting navel gazing about politics with the Labour researchers. Sounds very hume and Smith whilst sitting in gthe company of their greaters.....

People like this sicken me, no matter what party Looking down their noses at their herritage and treating it as something second rate becuase someone told them it was!
18

2Right,

08/12/2008 04:49:55
Mr Martin said last Wednesday that he was not told by Ms Pay that police did not have a warrant.

Coming from the Gorbals one would have thought he would have known to always ask if the police have warrants.

It is normal in Scotland for police to kick in doors without warrants, They did to Wullie Gage's Father while he was out, then produced a warrant for another house later.


But the Speaker's failure to seek legal advice in advance of the raid has caused many MPs to question his judgment.

Would have been different if he was being challenged over his wife's Taxi Fares, He would have sought, as he did, leagl advice and used public money to hide their expenses.

By By Mr Martin close the door on the way oot.
19

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 08/12/2008 06:20:15
#19 2Right

"Would have been different if he was being challenged over his wife's Taxi Fares, He would have sought, as he did, leagl advice and used public money to hide their expenses."

Very true, Martin seems very quick to seek legal advice when his privileges are threatened, but completely indifferent when the "privilege" being threatened is that of protection against warrantless searches by the police.

It seems that like most Scottish Labour MPs his main concern is lining his own pockets at the taxpayers expense.
20

Russell M,

Stirling 08/12/2008 06:57:35
Toom Tabard
21

Ju@n Kerr - the ex labour sheep,

08/12/2008 06:57:49
"David Cairns
December 6, 2008 at 6:32 pm
They both came to do the prize-giving at the James Watt College in Greenock this year and I have to say, despite my feeling the same way you that you do about them, they were actually very good and made the whole thing much more of a celebration than normal. Mind you they got £4k for their troubles so they should have been bloody good. I think we have the wrong agent Tom.
"

At least something gets david cairns in a frenzy, Colin and Justin!

Cairns should try for his own show. Changing morals, how to give your morals a makeover in five easily paid installments.....
22

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 08/12/2008 07:08:51
Is it just me or is GB ageing about a year for every month he has been in office as PM?.

Looks like these weighty decisions are weighing him down.

23

Nikostratos,,

08/12/2008 07:14:14
No he has not!
24

Thrawn,

UK 08/12/2008 07:47:23
It speaks volumes for New Labour that they discontinued a standing tradition in the House of Commons to appoint an Opposition MP to be Speaker. But then, New Labour has only contempt for our history and traditions as Blair's vacuous saying "Cool Britannia" demonstrates.

Labour is all about cosy cabals, and a former trade unionist like Michael Martin knows all about such practices. And what's the next cosy little deal to be stitched up: Martin père to go and Martin fils to succeed him as MP for his Glasgow constituency? Perhaps the SNP could defy convention and put up a candidate to oppose Paul Martin, should this occur.

And am I the only one to be tired of people saying that MPs are only picking on Michael Martin because he is working-class? Betty Boothroyd and George Thomas (Labour) and Bernard Wetherall (Cons.) were also working class and distinguished the office of Speaker.

By contrast, Gormless Mick has degraded it simply because of his ineptitude, lack of impartiality and failure to allow MPs' expenses to be disclosed. He should go, and soon!
25

Ju@n Kerr - the ex labour sheep,

08/12/2008 07:50:59
Do you know. I am just reading the daily mash and the stories are more factually correct than a maddox piece.
26

John Cameron,

St Andrews 08/12/2008 07:59:34
What is all this nonsense about Gorbals Mick having "lost" the confidence of the House? Only the truly delusional can have expected any other outcome. He was always an archetypal product of the thoroughly corrupt Scottish Labour Party Machine.
27

billengland,

08/12/2008 08:01:50
Speaker Martin and Serjeant Pay are clearly incompetent, and should never have been appointed in the first place. They should go.

The crime committed by the police in illegally entering Westminster, searching private offices, accessing the main server and thus all information on it, needs to be dealt with. The Acting Commissioner and the Head of the Anti-Terrorist Branch should be suspended and the PCC should get to work immediately.

The role of the Leader of the House, the Home Secretary, the Justice Minister and the Prime Minister in this affair should be made the subject of a full enquiry.

The Members of Parliament should immediately take action to ensure that this type of contempt cannot recur.

28

Ju@n Kerr - the ex labour sheep,

08/12/2008 08:18:18
The fact is whilst we and the media are banging away at a fall guy who cannot be shifted unless he decides, the real culprits Smith and Brown are laughing their socks of at the feutile efforts of the press.

Martin cannot be deselected, he can only be put out if his voters put him out.

Meanwhile they offer him up knowing full well it will amount to nothing and business as usual a few weeks later once everyones vented their spleens. Meanwhile the uilty walk of chuckling and free.
29

Nevsky,

Moscow 08/12/2008 08:49:37
Nepotism, cronyism and corruption in the Labour Party? Not a chance:

'Some Scottish Labour insiders believe that the Speaker could be willing to signal his intention to step down at the next election in exchange for an assurance that his son, Paul Martin, would be Labour's candidate in his Glasgow seat'
30

Ju@n Kerr - the ex labour sheep,

08/12/2008 08:52:58
"Nepotism, cronyism and corruption in the Labour Party? Not a chance:

'Some Scottish Labour insiders believe that the Speaker could be willing to signal his intention to step down at the next election in exchange for an assurance that his son, Paul Martin, would be Labour's candidate in his Glasgow seat' "

Has his son not lived well enough of the taxpayer and quango monies he has received so far? Also it is taking work away from another Labour activist in the area. Possibly even one who has worked hard for his chance at the "big prize"......Your 30 mins n the expense form start....NOW.....

Not very democratic is it.
31

Nevsky,

Moscow 08/12/2008 08:55:59
http://caligulaspalace.wordpress.com/2008/07/27/michael-martin-still-corrupt/
32

Bejjy,

08/12/2008 09:10:45
Mr Speaker Martin and his lavishly spending of tax-payers money wife will have to be dragged screaming from the trough in which they have got their snouts stuck. No way will Mick go quietly.
33

Buckfastleigh,

all ignorance 08/12/2008 09:17:38
Why have a go at the speaker when the polis upset everyone by upstaging the Majesty in Parliament?

Ask him to make a complaint against ex Commissaire Blair but leave him alone to do his important job in Londen.

What do we care in Caledonia if Albion is a polis state?
34

AJ Fife,

08/12/2008 09:46:52
Hasn't the Speaker's wife just had their Westminster pad decorated? It would be a shame if they couldn't hang around and enjoy the £250,000 worth of refurbishments. Afterall, Mrs Speaker spend a lot of time and effort traipsing around the West End selecting the finest lava lamps, sheepskin rugs, woodchip wallpaper, fag burn resistant sofas etc, all at the taxpayers expense.

35

Darien,

Panama 08/12/2008 10:17:53
Martin has been a convenient fool. To the snobs he reflects the very reason England/GB must 'look after' and retain Scotland the internal colony (i.e. he is what many south of the border would regard as the archetypal Scot). Most Scottish Labour MP's and MSP's have similar traits. The Palace is tired of him and want one of their own again.

#34 England (aka GB) is well known as perfidious Albion, implying that it is not trustworthy in its dealings with foreigners, including (if not especially) the Scots. Our history demonstrates this quite well. Recent comments by England/GB on Ireland, Iceland, Norway, France, Isle of Man etc etc also reflect this. England/GB is the senior boy of international interfering and untrustworthy belligerence. Thinking Scots clearly wish to jettison any connection.
36

Retired from Edinburgh,

Gorgie 08/12/2008 10:24:06
He should have been sacked ( or prosecuted)after 'taxi gate'. His behaviour towards the serjent in arms was a disgrace. Having been told about the proposed search, he should have ensured that the legalities were in order instead of allowing her to make a pigs ear of the whole thing then claiming that he had not ben told in advance. The fact that Broon does now want a bi-ellection in Glasgow should ensure that he raemains in post though.
37

,

08/12/2008 10:56:30
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
38

Iain's,

08/12/2008 11:39:04
The SNP MUST stand against him. England will be eternally grateful.
39

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 08/12/2008 11:40:41
Heard a snippet on the BBC wireless this morning suggesting that this barely articulate waste of space might be 'persuaded to retire' (to the House of Lords, don't forget) with the sweetener that his son (already an MSP) might inherit Mick's Glasgow Northeast Seat. Hereditary parliamentary seats? - is this Broon's Stalinist Utoptia? Has he forgotten Crewe and Nantwich already?
40

westview,

Gorbals view. 08/12/2008 11:47:16
As someone who grew up in the Gorbals , I find this spineless man an embarasment. I know he is not from the Gorbals but his mud is sticking to every one from the area. The only advantage of having an historic tradition bound Parliament was the stability it gave. That has now been ditched in a most partisan manner by the Speaker. Scotland should ditch the lot of them and go its own way guided by its own traditions and not English traditions.
41

Alec M,

Falkirk 08/12/2008 11:48:39
#32 - Nevsky - Thanks for the lead to a very interesting article.
42

Hadrien,

Worksop 08/12/2008 11:53:08
#s 30 and 31

Glad to see someone else has picked up on the offer to Mr. Martin that, if he promises to go quietly at the enxt election, his hereditary Parliamentary seat will go peacefully to his son.

Say what you like about the Scottish Labour Party, they respect private property and the right to pass it on in the family!
43

danbob,

08/12/2008 12:03:02
I was out of the country when this story broke so excuse me if my facts are wrong.
As I understand it a civil servant starts leaking information, (An offence) To a top tory politician, who gleefully recieved it and said nothing.(An offence) The police raid his office without a warrent. (An offence) and the speaker of the house of commons who assumed they had a warrant and was duped must now carry the can. Why.
44

Bejjy,

08/12/2008 12:14:51
#44 danbob

Why is leaking of information a criminal offence? It has been happening in politics since he beginning of time and if it was a criminal offence then Gordon Brown should now be serving a life sentence in one her Majesty's finest prisons for being one of the main culprits in the field.
45

Mr Watson,

London, fetching AG Bell a pizza 08/12/2008 13:30:13
I am not sure why the search of Damian Green's office is being referred to as a raid. Mr Green was allegedly party to an offence, and after arrest, police may search his premises. No warrant is needed if the police are allowed in by consent, in this case by the Serjeant at Arms. Had a warrant been necessary, one could have been sent from Horseferry Road Magistrates' Court in about 10 minutes. This is all about the self-interested head-up-their-own-a*se Westminster village people. As MPs say to their constiuents about ID cards - if you've nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. Perhaps MPs should ask, for example, if it is correct that the police search people in tube stations (without warrant) using sniffer dogs, so the local rags can announce that "xx people dealt with for drugs offences" when in fact a load of young kids are criminalised for possessing next to bog all amounts of weed. Of course the real crooks all escape.
46

Boab,

Glasgow 08/12/2008 13:43:43
#47 Mr Watson: agree with you on principle, MPs should also suffer from the attack on civil liberties instigated by Labour in their odious 'war on terror'.

However, 'anti-terror police' being allowed to search the offices of MPs? Sets a bad example if you ask me. What about them being allowed to arrest opposition MPs and detain them, indefinitely, without trial?

England, please vote Tory.
47

Ju@n Kerr - the ex labour sheep,

08/12/2008 15:28:03
#41 - West view - Well said. A parrisite your neighbours could do without on their backs. Perhaps if Glasgow finally kicks out Labour they may even get somewhere forward to where theyve been kept the past 50 years.

Time for a change.
48

Concerned local,

Edinburgh 08/12/2008 18:14:34
#45 - if your view that an MP receiving leaked information from a civil servant constitutes an offence worthy of police investigation, or himself leaking information to he press, I invite you to report the Rt Hon Gordon Brown, MP, to the police for serial offending going back to the days when he was in opposition and continuing throughout his period in office as Chancellor of the Exchequer and latterly as Prome Minister.
49

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/12/2008 20:03:40
"Has Mr Speaker lost the confidence of the House?"

A parliamentary spoke assured the media that the confidence of the house was intact and that more tricks were the order of the day.
50

moral___su­periority_,

08/12/2008 20:05:18
I am just waiting to get the first comment on tomorrow's stories!
51

Richard Lionheart,

08/12/2008 23:45:13
Broon got fed up reading about his failures in the press and has decided like all "good" dictators to put a stop to it.
Broon and Mugabe seem to be quite like each other.
Tribal, Dictators who have ruined their respective countries.
52

Ted Voth Jr,

Mad Town Wes' Consin 09/12/2008 02:37:35
Bravo! When something like that happened over here to one of our Representatives, a Democrat, and a Black, always especially vulnerable over here, nobody but one Conservative Republican said anything.
I mentioned it to my own Rep when she was home for a neighborhood festival, and she blew it off: 'Oh, that's bogus.' I was disappointed and shocked; apparently she'd never read Churchill's History of the English Speaking Peoples
When our Founders drew up the US Constitution they modeled it, more than most Yanks dream, on the Constitution of the UK. Their intention was that the Congress generally, and the House particularly, was to hold the whip-hand; power of the purse and power of impeachment. The irony is that we've relapsed into the ancient monarchic habits, and regard the President as the ancient world pre-1215 regarded the King
Thanks be to God that the Mother Country MPs still have brains and guts, and a sense of who they are.

 

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