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Independence: SNP 'to keep asking until voters give right answer'



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Published Date: 16 July 2008
THE SNP candidate in the Glasgow East by-election sparked a fresh row over Scotland's future last night, when he warned the Nationalists might not accept a No vote in a referendum on independence.
John Mason, who is a Glasgow councillor, said the SNP could go on asking the people in successive referendums until it got the answer it wanted – a view which puts him at odds with Alex Salmond, the First Minister.

"When you ask someone to
marry you, sometimes you have to persist," Mr Mason said during a campaign visit to a community health shop in the Barlanark area of the constituency.

He quickly added that he did not expect to have "another referendum the following day" if the Nationalists lost the first one.

However, his remarks contradict Mr Salmond's view on an independence referendum.

The First Minister has stated a referendum is a "once in a generation" event and around 20 years would have to elapse before the independence question could be put to the people again.

Mr Mason's remarks are all the more embarrassing for the SNP leadership as he is a self-declared hardliner within the party.

Asked earlier this week about his approach to independence, he replied: "The whole SNP wants independence, there's no question about that – I think we all take a hard line."

The SNP's political opponents seized on Mr Mason's comments to claim he had proved the Nationalists were only interested in one issue in the by-election – breaking up Britain.

David Cairns, the Scotland Office minister, said: "These comments prove Councillor Mason is more hard line than Alex Salmond. He is the extreme face of nationalism.

"It demonstrates he is obsessed by one issue only, to the exclusion of the concerns of ordinary people in the East End."

Mr Mason's comments represent his first real slip-up in the campaign. So far, he has followed the party line and not deviated from Mr Salmond's view on anything.

However, he has now placed Scotland's constitutional future in general and the SNP's plans for a referendum in particular at the centre of the campaign.

Mr Mason tried to spend yesterday focusing on the growing problem of fuel poverty, praising the Scottish Government for the number of central heating installations it had carried out last year and its plans to extend health checks to more people.

The SNP candidate said he would be writing to Alistair Darling, the Chancellor, setting out an eight-point plan to tackle fuel poverty.

If Mr Darling was not prepared to come to the constituency to discuss the issue with the voters, said Mr Mason, then he would take his argument to the Chancellor.

Stewart Hosie, an SNP MSP, is expected to push this same message when he raises the issue of a fuel tax regulator – cutting the tax when the prices go up – in the Commons later today.

Meanwhile, it also emerged yesterday that Margaret Curran, Labour's by-election candidate, had inadvertently asked Mr Mason to vote for her.

Ms Curran sent a leaflet to voters in the constituency, asking them to vote for her, to help her stand up for them.

As Mr Mason lives in the constituency, he received a leaflet from Ms Curran.

A spokesman for the Scottish Labour Party

said: "Margaret Curran is fighting for every vote – literally. She is writing to every single person on the electoral register to set out why she will be the strongest possible voice to stand up for the East End.

"If Councillor Mason hasn't done this, then more fool him."





The full article contains 604 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

AM2,

Scotland,UK 15/07/2008 22:50:52
It’s a bitter irony that John Mason should use a marriage analogy when actually he wants a divorce. In fact, he once said that breaking up Britain is his only reason for being in politics.

Here are his exact words:

“I'm in politics for one reason and that is to break up the UK and so any suggestion of a strengthening of a link between Scotland and England is what I’m opposed to.”

But is Mason really “more hardline than Alex Salmond”? I have my doubts.

What Salmond actually said about the timing of repeat referendums was “in my view it’s a once in a generation thing”. In his view.

When pressed on whether or not that was a cast-iron guarantee that the SNP wouldn’t seek to grind us down with damaging “neverendums”, Salmond wryly said that he wouldn’t always be in control of his party.

At that point it was clear, to me at least, that his comment was little more than a confidence trick, intended to send a false signal about how relaxed the nationalists are about their independence agenda.

It’s clearly part of a broader strategy. Another example is the SNP’s preferred referendum wording, which sugarcoats the question as if the public would simply be asked to sanction a gentle series of exploratory fireside chats involving Holyrood and Westminster buddies, rather than brutal, high stakes negotiations with no holds barred and the likelihood of protracted legal proceedings with no predictable outcome.

But I digress. The cat certainly is out of the bag as far as John Mason’s core motivation is concerned. So if the people of Glasgow East imagine that he genuinely cares about the bread-and-butter issues on which his pre-cooked rhetoric touches, they should think again. His only reason for being in politics is to break up the country.
2

Jimmy the Pie,

16/07/2008 00:03:16
I joined the SNP for the simple reason that I want to see an independent Scotland.

Is that a problem AM2???
3

McScotch identity crisis; indupundunce noo,

16/07/2008 00:10:39
Typical of the SNP, they are democracy-hating tyrants and professional aggitators. They care nothing of wasting public money for their narrow minority interests.
4

AM2,

Scotland,UK 16/07/2008 00:12:08
Not at all, Jimmy. But if you were in politics for that reason alone, it would be reasonable to ask if you could also be a good representative.
5

ThomasP,

16/07/2008 00:14:45
I support the Scottish National Party because I feel an Independent Scotland can do far much better as an Independent country.

Is that suprising?

You know what, I suspect other within the Scottish National Party may also feel the same way as I and they also feel an Independent Scotland is better determining her own future.
6

,

16/07/2008 00:16:55
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
7

AM2,

Scotland,UK 16/07/2008 00:17:31
#3 Tripod

For reasons with which I won't burden you, I emailed a forum contributor and the name on the email account leaked out. I betrayed nobody. Now, please feel free to criticise the substance of my post, but personal slurs only serve to indicate the paucity of such argument.
8

,

16/07/2008 00:18:46
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
9

McScotch identity crisis; indupundunce noo,

16/07/2008 00:19:43
9 ThomasP

I do enjoy when the SNP supporters call someone an idiot and then make a stupid point.

Parliamentary time costs money, the time costs money, both in real terms and in opportunity costs. Failed bills cost money.

Do you understand a little better. I am laughing at what you must be thinking now, there is no defence to your glib remarks. LOL.
10

ThomasP,

16/07/2008 00:20:10
#1

For the SNP to encourage Scottish Independence, then Scotland must be confident and successful.

Mr Mason will be a great representative and I am confident that Mr Mason will do the best for Glasgow to put back the confidence that Labour have destroyed over the years.
11

McScotch identity crisis; indupundunce noo,

16/07/2008 00:21:12
The national conversation costs money.

The Islammegafest 2009 costs money.

1,000 extra police officers costs money.

Guess which one the SNP identified as Scotlan'd top priority?

Guess which two these professional agitatirs delivered.
12

Castaway,

16/07/2008 00:21:12
#1-John Mason is not alone when he said “I'm in politics for one reason and that is to break up the UK.
This can be said for all the Scottish SNP MP's,MSP's,MEP and councillors plus SNP party members and supporters all want the same thing ie Scottish independence which means the break up the UK.
Are these SNP MP's,MSP's,MEP and councillors not good representatives when they have been elected by the voters who also have the choice to vote for someone else ?
13

clan_mackay,

16/07/2008 00:21:14
compliments of order-order.com

tinyurl.co.uk/nlql

14

The Spook in Leith,

16/07/2008 00:23:59
#6 Tripod,16/07/2008 00:12:39
Subscribe to the RSS before posts get deleted, people.


You don't have to subscribe to the RSS feed, just click on it and you will find the deleted posts even from yonks back but mind if someone deletes his/her account then those posts will not show on the RSS link
15

,

16/07/2008 00:24:10
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
16

the_figures_are _fudged,

Galashiels 16/07/2008 00:24:27
Labour must be hard up if they have had to drag AM2 back out.

Is this a U-turn or a relaunch ?

As for the SNP working steadily towards independance , the clue is in the name.

Why is this news to the Scotsman ?
17

John PM,

Edinburgh 16/07/2008 00:25:01
Mason is right and Salmond is wrong and if any SNP leader said they were giving up on independence for a generation they would be out on their a*se.

Remember party policy in the SNP is up to the party members not newspapers and not the party leader.

18

ThomasP,

16/07/2008 00:25:30
14#

The Calman Commission costs money...
19

AM2,

Scotland,UK 16/07/2008 00:25:34
#13 ThomasP

For years, the SNP has been trying to sell the idea that their nationalism is inherently “positive” and that anyone opposed to their agenda is pessimistic, fearty, lacking in self-confidence, untrusting of their fellow Scots, etc.

I think there’s a growing realisation that this is yet another a con trick. Bluster, swagger, empty bravado and windbaggery. Yep, that just about sums it up.
20

The Spook in Leith,

16/07/2008 00:26:58
Independence: SNP 'to keep asking until voters give right answer'

To bloody right.!!

Now im of to bed night night..Spook loves you all...MMMMWWWAAAA XX
21

,

16/07/2008 00:29:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
22

FrancesP,

16/07/2008 00:29:29
#1. AM2 - "When pressed on whether or not that was a cast-iron guarantee that the SNP wouldn't seek to grind us down with damaging 'neverendums', Salmond wryly said that he wouldn't always be in control of his party."

What are you talking about, man? He didn't 'wryly' say anything, it was a statement of the bleedin' obvious! "Alex Salmond claims not to be immortal - shock, horror".

What he did make abundantly clear was that, for as long as he IS leader of the party, his own view that a referendum is once-in-a-generation will hold sway. Of course, the rather silly 'neverendum' jibe originates from Quebec, and ironically the once-in-a-generation policy is perfectly in line with what's happened there - referendums in 1980 and 1995, and no prospect of another one until and unless the PQ get back into power, which will be a few more years at least.
23

ratzo,

16/07/2008 00:30:04
Hardline British Nationalism has not often been a positive force in Scotland and it offers nothing in the way of a positive future. By contrast the post-nationalist version offered by the SNP within Europe is precisely one of the most positive and progressive of current political philosophies.
24

Ken_Fitlike,

16/07/2008 00:31:42
1 AM2, Scotland,UK 15/07/2008 22:50:52

What a pathetic post


"It’s clearly part of a broader strategy"


Clearly...ha ha ha

Your make it sound like your 'on their case' Sherlock...

Give us a break




4 McCrotch Crisis

Are you referring to the £6+ Billion spent on Iraq?

£75 Billion Northern Rock?

£250 Billiuon Trident perhaps?

£50 Billion PFI profits?

It must be £14 Billion Benefit Fraud then?




25

AM2,

Scotland,UK 16/07/2008 00:32:06
#26 FrancesP

Thanks for the laugh. :-)

Anyway goodnight, CyberNats! Don’t forget to get some sleep so you can wake up bright and breezy for another day of accosting the decent, unsuspecting folk of Glasgow East with your fantastic spin. ;-)
26

a proud doonhamer,

Dumfries 16/07/2008 00:32:31
PANIC! PANIC! PANIC!

The internal party polls must be horrendous for Labour to have forced them to play the "break up Britain" card this early in the campaign. Usually we don't see until the last fews to limit the response from the SNP and the laughter from the voters.

The bleeding must be tremendous to force Labour to bring in its biggest gun with ten days to go.

Otherwise, YAWN!
27

The Spook in Leith,

16/07/2008 00:32:56
#22 AM2,Scotland,UK 16/07/2008 00:25:34
#13 ThomasP

For years, the unionists have been trying to sell the idea that their unionism is inherently “positive” and that anyone opposed to their agenda is pessimistic, fearty, lacking in self-confidence, untrusting of their fellow Scots, etc.

I think there’s a growing realisation that this is yet another a con trick. Bluster, swagger, empty bravado and windbaggery. Yep, that just about sums it up.

Vis a vis ...?
28

Ken_Fitlike,

16/07/2008 00:33:08


Check out the story that the Hootsman missed, the one about Margaret Curran's literature containing a false image and information on a war veteran.

www.order-order.com
29

,

16/07/2008 00:33:26
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
30

ThomasP,

16/07/2008 00:35:28
#22

You've pretty much spoke of your own opinion.

I cannot possibly comment on what the SNP have tried to do for the past 80-odd years when the Party was created.

I doubt you are over 80 years old either and you should be unable to comment on how the SNP has painted their Nationalism during the times they existed.
31

walter,

16/07/2008 00:36:03
What a difference, Mason wants the people to vote for him "not" because he intends to represent them but because he wants to break up the union.
Curran on the other hand intends to represent all the constituents even those who are standing against her for other parties.
It is about time the SNP accepted the fact that just because they win a seat where more than 2 parties stand they do not represent the majority over a one issue policy when the other parties all agree on that policy.
32

John PM,

Edinburgh 16/07/2008 00:36:48
David Cairns said "He [Mason] is the extreme face of nationalism". No I think you'll find that's the BNP.

Also who is really impressed with a British imperialist nationalism which threatens the world with Nukes while hypocritically demanding no-one else has any?

Scotland wants equality with other nations. That's normality. It's not unusual (I hate to break it to the Scotsman and the increasingly dim Labourites) for an SNP candidate to support independence!

Everyone in the party does. Mr Mason is telling the truth while his opponents are onto their usual bucket of scaremongering and lies. Sad pathetic stuff but do we expect any better? Not really.
33

Iainbroch,

Moray 16/07/2008 00:37:21
Liebaah mail drop - haar! haar! haar! My ribs hurt!

No need to explain that to those with intelligence, I see at least one idiot who would not appreciate the idea of a mail drop in Glagow at this time!

Wheres the other eejit?
34

Alex, Young Laird d' Drumchapel,

Madrid 16/07/2008 00:37:58
Das Schottishman is trying to dictate the by-election agenda using fabricated news. Do they really want to open up this subject? I mean given that over 80% of the population want a referendum and all.

I mean Curran doesn't know what to say when asked if she wants a referendum or not. Labour are in disarray on the subject.

This really is the amateur and lightweight banality that we've come to expect from this propaganda sheet.
35

Ken_Fitlike,

16/07/2008 00:38:04
35 walter, 16/07/2008 00:36:03

Have you been drinking?

36

John PM,

Edinburgh 16/07/2008 00:40:47
Oh and the SNP (yawn) does have other policies as we see every day with their work in the scottish Government... Is this really the standard of debate?

"Curran on the other hand intends to represent all the constituents even those who are standing against her for other parties."

All good MP's represent their whole constituency and the fact is that statistically the SNP's are by far the most active.
37

Guga II,

Rockall 16/07/2008 00:46:38
AM Squared.

Why is it that you never criticise the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party for their single-minded policy of keeping Scotland subservient to the English?

Why is it that you never criticise them for their blatant lies, sleaze and corruption? You were, for example, very quiet about The Mouth of the South breaking the law (by her own admission, too). I also don't recall you criticising them for their dodgy, lying expenses claims. Not that you're biased.

I can, however, understand why you, as a Northern Irishman, have a fixation with the Union, but why do you expect the people of Scotland to follow suit?

As for anyone in the SNP having the motivation to break up the defunct and archaic Union, how is that letting "the cat out of the bag"? The greater majority of nationalists in Scotland have always wanted to break up the Union; it is no big secret. We do not wish to remain as an English colony, to be exploited by our colonial masters; again, no big secret.

Incidentally, I also thought you had stated that you were no longer going to participate in discussions on these boards. What made you change your mind?
38

Conan the Librarian™,

16/07/2008 00:49:10
39
All the money he saves on his Council tax thanks to the freeze, he is entitled to a wee dram, dae ye no' think Ken?
39

frank mcbride,

lusitania 16/07/2008 00:49:48
AM2.

In your numerous posts, so far, you have attempted to suggest that John Mason will not make a good MSP for the East End.

This is, very obviously, YOUR very obviously blinkered opinion.

You, but more importantly the voters of Glasgow East, know that he is an extremely good political representative, as evidenced by the fact that he received the HIGHEST NUMBER OF 1st PREFERENCE VOTES, of any candidate, in the GCC Election 2007.

AM2, where did he achieve this? Could it have been in the East End of Glasgow?

Why do you do it, AM2? Why are you intent on making yourself look so foolish?
40

Conan the Librarian™,

16/07/2008 00:51:48
41
It's an addiction Guga.
I really should be going to bed now as I have work tomorrow...but just one more post...
41

Jwil,

16/07/2008 00:55:31
The Scotsman getting picky with their stories again.

What do you expect? The SNP are for independence. No beating about the bush!
42

monkey man,

16/07/2008 00:56:15
Mr Mason's comments shows the palpable desperation of the extremist separatists of the SNP. The SNP have no chance of winning Glasgow East even when Labour are in complete disarray. The real Scottish people are showing they don't want the SNP, not now, not ever.!
43

McScotch identity crisis; indupundunce noo,

16/07/2008 01:01:56
50 Tripod

All you SNP boys whack it, you are master-debators on this forum.
44

Jwil,

16/07/2008 01:02:03
Why is the Scotsman unable to get stories at the same time as other newspapers? There are a few crackers in the Herald. You regular Scotsman readers might get to read about them tomorrow if you are lucky, or more likely next week!

The lib Dem candidate. Yep he should stand for the Scottish parliament he would make a good liberal leader, instead of the bunch who are offering themselves up.
45

Royster,

16/07/2008 01:02:24
#27. Yes, it's so progressive it leaves our country indefensible and a total non-player in European and international affairs.
46

monkey man,

16/07/2008 01:02:25
Even the thickest of the wee Bravehearts should be getting the message by now that if they can't defeat this battered and bruised Labour party at present then they never will. The SNP are already in free-fall never to return....
47

Conan the Librarian™,

16/07/2008 01:02:54
Good Morning Tripod.

(I won't beggar you if you don't mind:)
48

Conan the Librarian™,

16/07/2008 01:08:11
51
Wow, what an original insult, do you mind if I copy you ONAN other thread 1ST?
49

TommyKaye,

UK 16/07/2008 01:09:14
So Labour have been cuaght out lying again eh.....


http://www.order-order.com/2008/07/exclusive-glasgow-east-labour-fakes-93.html

Oh dear it is on a blog but it will be mainstream news by the end of the morning.
50

Kim McLaggan,

McAdam 16/07/2008 01:12:26
For the first time in many years the SNP can change the face of Scotland for the better,a fresh new start or the same old false promises the old line parties continue to tell the people.Time to discard the horses blinders and go for the SNP win,nothing to lose thats a given,if the SNP dont live up to there mandate vote them out next election.
51

,

16/07/2008 01:16:15
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
52

frank mcbride,

lusitania 16/07/2008 01:20:15
It's great to see NuLab bringing their Blogging "A" team into play.
53

Statsman,

Edinburgh 16/07/2008 01:22:46
Nationalism is our last line of defence against the crooks wanting to ruin this country. The sooner people realise that, the better.

What have Labour done for the people of Glasgow East. What would the Tories do for them?

It's all a false Labour/Tory paradigm with the same interests only caring about the super-rich in London.

The SNP are not the answer to everything but we need change. You don't get change by choosing the same thing over and over.
54

Comment is Free,

U.S. 16/07/2008 01:23:10
A few things.

1. At least Mr. Mason is honest.

2. Ian Paisly actively campaigns for the up-keep of the Union and Britishness.

3. Gordan Brown actively campaigns for the up-keep of the Union and Britishness.

Logical Question:

If the UK purportes to support anything close to freedom of speech (yeah it took 1776 for Scots to get some of that again, now if only heave-ho-lets-go would work again in 2011, woops that comment may get me locked up in the Tower like it did Queen Mary), then why is Mr. Mason being criticized for his honesty? He is supposed to have the same rights as the Unionist campaigners is he not? He openly stated he wants the opposite thing they do. What of it?
55

indune1,

Canada 16/07/2008 01:26:53

Pi**es me off that we/I can't comment on the Khadr thread.
56

Guga II,

Rockall 16/07/2008 01:39:25
#64. We can't comment on a lot of threads, not even about African fruit.

The Hootsmon Pravda Branch and Xinhua Branch censors don't like to give us much leeway; free speech is dangerous (in their opinion).
57

Conan the Librarian™,

16/07/2008 01:39:42
58
Heh, Not on this paper it won't.

Evening Dunnie, and Goodnight, been up far to long fending off bridgedwellers.
58

McScotch identity crisis; indupundunce noo,

16/07/2008 01:40:39
63

Freedom of speech.

Mason does have freedom of speech, the Scotsman has freedom of speech to criticise him for using his freedom to speek in a distasteful way, everyone has freedom to criticise this professional agitator.

Another simple concept totally lost in the mind of an SNP supporter.

Free to speak, free to criticise people for what they say. Ironically it is you trying to supress free criticism of this silly little man.
59

indune1,

Canada 16/07/2008 01:43:03

66 - sorry I missed you old friend. Pleasant dreams.
60

John Muir,

Botany Bay 16/07/2008 02:05:31
The Newsnicht interview with John Mason was as follows, about six minutes in:

“So you are a hardliner on the question of independence?”
“I think the whole SNP wants independence. There’s no question.”
“You take a hard line?”
“I think we all take a hard line.”

See for yourself at tinyurl.co.uk/hm6t

This is then twisted by the Liebour propaganda machine to be John Mason is "a self-declared hardliner within the party”. How can supporting a policy that EVERY SINGLE member of your party wants make you a hardliner? The policy is in the manifesto, for gawd’s sake!
61

John Muir,

Botany Bay 16/07/2008 02:22:49
47, 52 I agree. LibDem guy actually seemed like a good bloke. Scotland sorely needs some credible opposition.

I suppose it can only happen when our political elites stop going to London to be part of someone else's government.
62

Iainbroch,

Moray 16/07/2008 02:23:41
To all free thinking liberated Scots - sweet dreams and have a great day tomorrow - it is coming yet for aw that.
To the dim wits on the take - fall under a bus! Or stick your peckers or some other part of your anatomy in an electric socket if you cant wait that long!
63

Edward,

16/07/2008 03:04:58
When I saw the headline, I knew it just had to be YET another SNP bashing story from Hamish MacDonnell
No doubt breifed by a Labour spin doctor. Does Hamish not have a life? He really should get one!

I found it funny though that John Mason received a leaflet from Margaret Curran as he lives in the constituency. Sadly Margarte Curren will not receive ANY electoral leaflets through her door as sh doesnt live in the area
64

Edward,

16/07/2008 03:14:12
Hamish must have missed the story carried accross the rest of the papers about control freak Brown's idea of having every phone,e-mail, text message on a national data base. But then again that would have put Labour in a bad light.
Questions should be put to Margaret Curran about this, allthough I doubt that Hamish will do that
65

Royster,

16/07/2008 03:21:46
#63. FYI Queen Mary was never locked in the Tower. If you want to comment on UK affairs, at least get your facts right.
66

An Beal Bacht,

16/07/2008 03:27:27
70 - John Muir, Botany Bay 16/07/2008 02:22:49 wrote:

"47, 52 I agree. LibDem guy actually seemed like a good bloke. Scotland sorely needs some credible opposition."

This was the guy who, during the debate, cited a report that argued Scotland was getting too much money, and reminded viewers his party advocates a review of the Barnett Formula. He also said on Newsnight tonight that he could work with the tories, but not with the SNP, because they want independence for Scotland? Didn't I read that the challengers for the leadership of his party in Scotland were sending out feelers in just that direction? Did no one brief him?

Aye - he's slick, but no friend of Scotland.
67

Col. Blimp­IV*,

16/07/2008 03:34:46
#35 walter

Mp's don't represent "people", only dimwits who think he can get their dodgy bog-pan fixed, self-important assholes with an abundance of unground axes and pervs who are having trouble getting an import licence for their mail order brides, show up at MP's surgeries.

The most recent occasion I can recall of an MP helping an individual directly, would be Nicky Fairbairns efforts on behalf of Paddy Meahan but the fact that Fairbairn was an MP was probably just a coincidence.

The best that the rest of us can hope for, is that they represent some of our opinions.

Mason, as an actual [as opposed to the ubiquitous fakie Christian politician] Christian is fairly well placed to trample over many of mine.

But if his objective is to put our country on the same map as everyone else's, regardless of how long it may take, I say...Onward Christian Soldier.
68

JimC,

Kilmarnock 16/07/2008 03:40:53
Hard to believe some of the comments by the hootsmon. They would have us believe that Independence was the only issue in this by-election. Grasping and straws spring to mind. BTW for anyone interested, I set up a new site for Scottish opinion and debate the other night at caddis.co.uk its open to all political persuasions.
69

W Smith,

Middle East 16/07/2008 03:43:16
Gerri Peev wanted the First Minister to go to Red Ken Livingstone for advice.

Aye, right.

Like Ken is some sort of expert.

He's an expert all right - in corruption.

He spent hundreds of millions of pounds on jobs-for-the-boys pet projects and now he's being audited.

I wonder if The Scotsman will run the story.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/2302818/Mayor-of-London-Ken-Livingstone-%27squandered-millions-of-pounds%27.html

LOOKS LIKE DAVID MARSHALL WAS AT LEAST TAKING KEN'S ADVICE, EH GERRI?
70

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 16/07/2008 03:51:36
Lets put this to bed once and for all so the num-nuts can sleep peacfully at night.

The SNP constitutional preference is Scotland as an Independent monarchy.

The Unionists costitutional preference is Britain as an Independent monarchy.

Both of these are nationalist views - just vewing different nations or conglomerations of nations. 'British' is as 'nationalist' (construe any dark overtones you wish) and 'Scottish'.

The Labour party,like the Libs, Tories and SNP have individual policies within their constitutional preference.

It is absolutely disengenious to narrowly portray the SNP who have governed with skill and agility over many policy areas as a single issue party.

So expect the unionists to keep on doing it.

71

SNP hypocrisy,

16/07/2008 03:57:22
Whatever happened to democracy? We all new the SNP thought this way anyway, nice of this political light-weight to let us know what they were secretely thinking. However the majority in a democracy is always right, and whenever a minority government tell us otherwise or that the majority is wrong - then the SNP would face a backlash which could only be termed a revolution. I really hope they keep talking this way! Know your enemy Scotland, he has several chins, very smug grin, think everyone else (the majority) is wrong and that somehow he will get you to think as he does. Reject the SNP! Vote tactically wherever you live and boot these arrogant undemocratic SNP clowns out of office.
72

jamboden,

16/07/2008 04:08:48
JUST DO IT!
73

McScotch identity crisis; indupundunce noo,

16/07/2008 04:32:17
This SNP Mason guy shouldn't have used chasing a woman for her hand in marriage as an analogy, he should have sighted the example of an immature, rude little child who hasn't learned how to behave yet.

Can I get a puppy daddy?

Can I have a puppy daddy?

Can I have one now daddy?

I want a puppy daddy, please daddy?

Bwaaa ha ha, I wanna puppy!! I wanna puppy!

Can I dad? Can I have a puppy daddy?

Can I have one now daddy?

Can I have a puppy daddy?

A cat then daddy?

I want a pony daddy!
74

Traquir , Alba,

16/07/2008 05:12:57
I remain amazed at how naive the Unionistas are to believe that we nationalists will just roll over
and give up our aspirations for Scotland to become
a free nation in her own right should
we ever get a no vote in a referendum.
They all appear to have been have taken in by the
tactics of the brain the size of a plant Wendy Alexander (aka "Scotland's, the UK's
the World's, the Universe's Most
Inept Political Leader" - see tinyurl.com/3llxyq).
Like their dear ex-leader they follow a herd-like
instinct of stupidity. We nationalists will
NEVER give up - so hard luck, but just
to prove that we believe, unlike
our Unionist brethren, in a level playing field
we are willing post-independence to allow
the Unionistas to have as many referendums as they
want to ask Scotland to voluntarily join a Union
with England for the first time. Of course no
other country that has left the British Empire
has pursued this opinion so I suspect it may
be a bit of challenge :)

I see the sycophant David Cairns is calling
John Mason "the extreme face of nationalism", perhaps
he was having a chat with Mr AM2 who yesterday
called John Mason a "supremacist". The Unionistas
as this point are reaching real lows in their
desperate battle to save their inviolate Union.
"the extreme face of nationalism" is something
that should be reserved for the BNP and
terrorist groups such as those that operated
in Northern Ireland. To compare a fully democratic
and peaceful party like the SNP with real
extremist nationalists is absolutely abhorrent and
apologies should be forthcoming if these type
of people have any respect for democracy and
common decency.

AM2 is so blind with hatred for Scotland gaining
her rightful place as an independent nation he
can't even see the irony in his own statements.

"Bluster, swagger, empty bravado and windbaggery."

Per Burns, AM2 would indeed benefit from
"the giftie gie us tae see oorsels as ithers see us".

Saor Alba


75

Royster,

16/07/2008 05:30:37
#83. Why do you want to return to mediaeval kingdoms that have a very poor record of success?
76

Pilrig.,

Livingston 16/07/2008 05:35:28
"Extreme face of nationalism" ? Now who was it who wanted us to fly Union flags from flagpoles in oor gairdens ?
77

Pilrig.,

Livingston 16/07/2008 05:36:48
Clue - the pension snatcher
78

Castaway,

16/07/2008 05:36:56
Independence: SNP "to keep asking until voters give right answer" does this mean that if any referendum on Scottish independence is rejected that the SNP will cease to exist, off course not.
The SNP aim is independence and if that means asking the Scottish people via another referendum even if the proposed one to be held in 2010 is rejected so be it.
If the SNP have the majority of seats after the May 2011 Scottish elections and form the Scottish Government they could hold a referendum during the lifetime of that Parliament. If this is contemplated it will be in the SNP manifesto, then it will be upto the Scottish voters to decide wether or not to vote SNP like they had the choice in the May 2007 election.

Looking at the poll below there is an age group difference between the I agree and I disagree, with this in mind time could be on the SNP's side.

The June TNS opinion poll on a Scottish referendum with the age range of 18-65+, split into six groups.
The peak age group saying I agree was the 35-44 year group with 49% and 65+ year old group saying I disagree with 55%.
In the 18-54 age groups (4), the majority in all the 4 groups said I agree and in the 55-65+ age groups(2) the majority in the 2 groups said I disagree.
The overall result was No-41%:Yes-39%: Don't know-21%.
79

Pilrig.,

Livingston 16/07/2008 05:39:29
Another clue - the guy who reneged on his promise to give us a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.
80

Jock ex 45Cdo RM,

THORNHILL 16/07/2008 05:44:00
Beware the thin end of TORY objectives. Cameron [a Scot] state he/they will raise more taxes when re-elected. How much more in the field of mis-management, mis-spending and now aiming to meet the Labour's spending spree.
I hope DC keeps his ideas of further taxes to England
81

Traquir , Alba,

16/07/2008 05:45:47
Here is the original now deleted page of
the Margaret Curran lies about 93 year old
veteran Mr McGuiness :

see - http://tinyurl.com/5sfn38

This is how the page looks now after they have
been caught out yet again with blatant lies
and deception.

see - tinyurl.com/6l2vh5

The four "slips of tongue" referring to
Mr McGuiness now refer to Mr Hipson - wouldn't
it be hilarious if Mr Hipson turns out to
be an SNP voter :) Also the picture of
Mr McGuiness receiving his MBE has now also
been replaced.

Some additional lies still appear on the site
though :

"I hope every single voter in the East End uses their hard-fought right "

Yep - well if the election had not
been press-ganged into as short a time frame
as possible in the middle of the Glasgow Fair
then perhaps "every single voter" would have
had the chance to vote. Labour are really plumbing
the depths of the cesspool in which they habit.

"Polling day has been deliberately placed during the summer holidays - Scottish schools have already broken up. It is also midway through the Glasgow fair holiday, when the city traditionally empties and the more politically volatile C2 demographic - backbone of many a byelection swing - are safely away on vacation."

"Today, humiliatingly, Labour's view is that the fewer people who vote, the better. Glasgow East - like Brown's premiership - is now entirely about survival."

see - tinyurl.com/66cr87

It is also rather sick that Ms Curran focused
an individual who was fortunate enough
to reach the ripe old age of 93, despite the fact that
life expectancy is in places in
Glasgow East is as low as 54 the same as
Gambia , lower than Sudan and Bangladesh
never mind the healthy 71 for the Gaza strip.

Saor Alba
82

Traquir , Alba,

16/07/2008 05:51:00
84 Royster,

"#83. Why do you want to return to mediaeval kingdoms that have a very poor record of success?"

Well I guess this is one of the most balanced
Unionista postings I have seen for some time.
Usually they go on and on about Scotland returning
to the dark ages if she stops suckling from
the ample and generous British teat. Now at least
one Unionista admits that both England and Scotland
would be reduced to the dark ages - progress
indeed. I suspect that Unionistas need to be
collectively on some very strong anti-depressants
with their constant glass half empty attitude.
83

Royster,

16/07/2008 06:09:47
#91. But why? Seriously?
84

donald,

glasgow 16/07/2008 06:11:53
Typical of the SNP. They actually stand for wot they say they stand for. Poor Hammie and Royal Labour have a problem accepting that fact.

Every week Labour hacks and press chums look more and more foolish as they keep discovering that Labour is an Independence party.
85

beeree,

local 16/07/2008 06:51:30
It always amazes me how many Snippers suffer from imsomnia. Every article affecting SNP immediately has a platoon of apologists trimming the message to soften criticism.

Makes me wonder if there is but one nerd in a lonely office, with a dozen PCs and a stock of off the shelf answers.

It has always amazed me that the ones who call for an independent Scotland are too ready to sell Scotland to the highest bidder - explain how Trump, Soutar, First Group fit into the democratic pattern.
86

Royster,

16/07/2008 06:59:02
#94. I agree. Most of the the pro-SNP stuff is either a stock answer from the duty cadre at SNP HQ or some mad rant from a US citizen like Senga Jean.
87

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 16/07/2008 07:01:47
SCOTLAND WILL BE INDEPENTE!!!!!!
88

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 16/07/2008 07:07:00
SCOTLAND WILL BE INDEPENTE!!!!!!
89

bring them on,

16/07/2008 07:09:57
We have ways of making you vote....
90

Talorthane,

16/07/2008 07:11:52
AM2

"It’s a bitter irony that John Mason should use a marriage analogy when actually he wants a divorce. In fact, he once said that breaking up Britain is his only reason for being in politics."

I'm not sure what your idea of a happy maggiage is, but John Mason's suggestionis that Scotland and England develop a relationship where they are equal.

His opponents want to continue in a situation where one partner has all the power, goes out to be a part of the world (while keeping the other at home), hands out "house-keeping" money (and resents how much), constantly tells the other how lucky it is and it really should be more grateful.

Oh ... and the other that it would never make it on their own, and if they don't stop with the whining they have to look at reducing how much money they get.
91

John S,

16/07/2008 07:14:45
I am shocked the SNP have a secret, hidden agenda, they want independence and will keeping on asking the Scottish people until they achieve that goal.
Thank you Labour Party for discovering this on behalf of the grateful Scottish people, the 664,227 poor souls who voted for SNP in May 2007 have been hoodwinked.
92

Scotindy,

Los ANGELES 16/07/2008 07:15:31
Scotland will be INDEPENDENT!!!!
93

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 16/07/2008 07:19:00
#1 AM2 Well said, Sir.

Mason has indeed let the cat out of the Scottish National Front's ragbag. We'll vote until we get it right, and then, suddenly, no more votes just in case we want to change our minds. Democracy is a one-way trip as far as these Xenophobes are concerned.

I'm still waiting to learn what the SXP can do for Glasgow East Enders after this by election that it couldn't do before it.

94

Talorthane,

16/07/2008 07:30:35
#102 Rulesbutnotrulers.

That was a disgraceul post.

I had thought more of you than that.
95

Number 6,

Germany 16/07/2008 07:37:08
What ? the SNP want independence ? oh no. As Salmond has already said, this will be a once in a generation question. If it's rejected so be it. Many supporters of Independence WOULD NOT want to see the question
repeated if the country clearly did not want it.

What would be the point, all it would produce is the
Scottish unionist Army or some other group. No , not independence if it meant the country would go up in flames. The transission must be peaceful and the will of the majority, and the SNP know that.