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Medical advice on Libyan bomber 'in doubt'

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Published Date: 26 August 2009
JUSTICE secretary Kenny MacAskill was last night under pressure to reveal more details of the medical evidence that led to the release of the Lockerbie bomber, after it emerged that only one doctor was willing to say Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al-Megrahi had less than three months to live.
Labour and Conservative politicians have demanded the Scottish Government publish details of the doctor's expertise and qualifications, amid suggestions he or she may not have been a prostate cancer expert.

The parties have also raised questions over whether the doctor was employed by the Libyan government or Megrahi's legal team, which could have influenced the judgment.

The evidence provided by the doctor is crucial as compassionate release under Scots law requires that a prisoner has less than three months to live.

Doubts about Megrahi's life expectancy have already been raised by American relatives of the 270 victims of the bomb that blew up Pan Am flight 103 over Lockerbie on 21 December, 1988. But last night the Scottish Government said it would not publish details of the individual who gave the crucial advice.

Mr MacAskill has said he based his decision to release Megrahi on the opinions of a range of experts.

But this is contradicted by a decisive report sent to Mr MacAskill on 10 August.

While it noted that four prostate cancer specialists – two oncologists and two urologists – were consulted, the summary said: "Whether or not prognosis is more or less than three months, no specialist would be willing to say."

The report suggests that only one doctor was willing to support the claim that Megrahi had just weeks to live.

The medical report stated that the "less than three months to live" prognosis was: "In the opinion of Megrahi's (the name or title of the individual was then blanked out] … who has dealt with him prior to, during and following the diagnosis."

There was also a suggestion that Megrahi might not be as ill as had been claimed. The report said: "Clinicians who have assessed Mr Megrahi have commented on his relative lack of symptoms when considering the severity and stage of underlying disease."

And suggestions that the doctor who gave the prognosis may have been employed by the Libyan government emerged in the report's notes. It said that a professor from Libya had been involved in Megrahi's care and the medical officer who wrote the report had been "working with clinicians from Libya over the past ten months".

The report also said Megrahi met the conditions for early release, but fell short of making a specific recommendation.

Opposition parties claimed this left important question marks over the quality of the medical advice. They now want clarification on the doctor's expertise and qualifications, and whether he or she was employed by the NHS, the Libyans or Megrahi's legal team.

Last night a spokesman for the Conservatives said that the Scottish Government must now identify the doctor.

He said: "This is no ordinary case of patient confidentiality. This is the background to a very important decision so the normal rules do not apply here.

"At the very least, we must know the qualifications of this doctor, whose opinion was clearly crucial, the only one to say that Megrahi had a life expectancy of less than three months.

"It appears from the report that he was not a specialist. We also need to know if he works for the NHS or was employed by the Libyans or Megrahi."

The calls for details of the doctor's employers, experience and qualifications have been echoed by Labour health spokesman Dr Richard Simpson, who is a former associate member of the British Association of Urological Surgeons and its Prostate Cancer Working Group.

In parliament on Monday, Dr Simpson said that his reading of the notes suggested Megrahi may have eight months left, not the three months or less on which Mr MacAskill said he based his decision.

"I hope that with effective palliative care al-Megrahi will survive and have effective symptom control for a longer period than three months," Dr Simpson said. "However, this does call into question the grounds for his release on compassionate grounds.

"It is clear to me from the medical reports and the opinion of the specialists that Megrahi could live for many more months. Kenny MacAskill released him apparently on the advice of just one doctor, whose status is not clear and who is not named.

"At the very least, before agreeing to release a prisoner convicted of such a serious crime on compassionate grounds, the minister should have sought a second opinion confirming the patient's prognosis from a specialist in palliative care."

But despite promises that Mr MacAskill will publish "all relevant documentation" once permission has been received from the parties involved, a source close to the justice secretary said this would not include information about the doctor – including his or her name and qualifications.

He also called Dr Simpson's comments "tasteless". He added: "I really don't think we should be speculating on the day somebody is going to die."

A Scottish Government justice spokeswoman again insisted Mr MacAskill had relied on a range of evidence rather than the opinion of one doctor.

"The medical advice before the justice secretary consisted of a report from the Scottish Prison Service director of health and care, who had access to all Mr al-Megrahi's medical records.

"That report is clear. Taking all the medical advice into account, the director's view is that 'the clinical assessment is that a three-month prognosis is now a reasonable estimate for this patient'," she said.

"It was on that clear medical advice and a recommendation from the governor and the parole board, that Mr al-Megrahi be released on compassionate grounds, that the justice secretary based his decision."


Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 26 August 2009 12:34 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Lockerbie
 
1

alba nach,

Tarbert 25/08/2009 22:43:55
I'm astonished at the selective commentary on the medical report. What about the bits missed out?

"Unfortunately the patient did not even reach six months of disease control, which is another point in favour of the aggressive nature of his disease."
...
"Reviewing the total picture, the concluding specialist view is that, in the absence of a good response to treatment, survival could be in the order of 'months' and, no longer 'many months'."
...
"The clinical assessment, therefore, is that a 3 month prognosis is now a reasonable estimate for this patient."

Maddox claims "Scots law requires that a prisoner has less than three months to live." Note that he doesn't care to cite the exact statute.

The Prisoners and Criminal Proceedings (Scotland) Act 1993 says only "The Secretary of State may at any time, if satisfied that there are compassionate grounds justifying the release of a person serving a sentence of imprisonment, release him on licence."

Surely Maddox would never make such a simple error of fact?
2

Justin Timbercake,

25/08/2009 22:47:37
"But last night the Scottish Government said it would not publish details of the individual who gave the crucial advice."

This smells very fishy.

If it is true that the diagnosis was only from one doctor who has no expertise in this area and indeed if he was Libyan, well, MacAskill is a dead man walking.

This has all the hallmarks of an SNP carve-up.
3

Justin Timbercake,

25/08/2009 22:48:53
Mr MacAskill has said he based his decision to release Megrahi on the opinions of a range of experts.

But this is contradicted by the decisive report sent to Mr MacAskill on 10 August.
------------------------------------------------------

OH DEAR!

It just gets worse and worse for the SNP.
4

Nevsky;,

St Petersburg 25/08/2009 23:04:46
2 Rufus*

'An SNP carve-up' lol...yes of course it does Rufus!
5

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2009 00:04:54
I'm sure the Higher Power will ensure that justice is done.

Even if it takes a few more years than we were led to believe.
6

Hickory,

US 26/08/2009 00:07:49
If it stinks like a fish, has scales like a fish, has fins like a fish.... it is fishy.
Now the real story comes out.
How's that oil deal going for ye Mr. Brown? And oh yes, is it gettin' a bit hot for ye Mr. MaCaskill?
Do ye understand "Quid Pro Quo" boys?
7

MacFhraing,

Callanish 26/08/2009 00:10:27
Who "finds out" these things for the Scotsman? We know it doesn't "investigate" anything for itself? Bailie Nicol Jarvie, I think.
8

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 26/08/2009 00:12:31

What Utter Nonsense, there is Absolutly non the need to start the 'mud-slinging'!
We should be praising Kenny MacAskill for a job well done, well done Indeed!

9

,

26/08/2009 00:13:28
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10

Am Balach,

Isle of Skye 26/08/2009 00:15:59
Scottish Labour sink to new depths. Dr Simpson is a disgrace to his profession - both as a medical doctor and as a politician. MacAskill made it clear that Magrahi could live longer or less than 3 months. The point is that medical advice was followed under the statutes of Scots Law.
11

Fifi la Bonbon,

oozing compassion out of every pore 26/08/2009 00:16:19
"The evidence provided by the doctor is crucial as compassionate release under Scots law requires that a prisoner has less than three months to live."


No it doesn't. There's no rule in law that says that. At most, it's the practice that has emerged. What the law, set out in the statute cited at #1 says, is that the minister has the power to release on licence any prisoner at any time if he is satisfied that "compassionate" grounds exist. But he doesn't have to release any prisioner at any time even if the Higher Power is poking him with a pointy stick to be "compassionate".

The significance of this new revelation is that we were all assured that his reason for being compassionate was a cast iron belief based on oodles of expert evidence that the Lockerbie bomber was down to his last baseball cap. Now it seems that the evidence was not as firm as we were led to believe.

None of that changes what happened, and it doesn't even make his decision unlawful because he gets to decide when he wants to be compassionate.

But the Higher Power will be scratching his/her/its/their head(s) in wonderment, if he/she/it/they has one/them.

12

,

26/08/2009 00:17:34
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13

,

26/08/2009 00:18:47
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14

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 00:19:12
@5 "Even if it takes a few more years than we were led to believe. "

Want to put your money where your snide and cowardly mouth is, dear? How much do you want to bet that Megrahi will still be alive "a few more years" from now? How about this time next year? How about by the next General Election?

I'll take any bet you care to place.
15

Soosider,

Glasgow 26/08/2009 00:21:27
It might be that in the rush to get your post in you did not read the full article it ends with
"The medical advice before the justice secretary consisted of a report from the Scottish Prison Service director of health and care, who had access to all Mr Al-Megrahi's medical records.

"That report is clear. Taking all the medical advice into account, the director's view is that 'the clinical assessment is that a three-month prognosis is now a reasonable estimate for this patient'," she said.

"It was on that clear medical advice and a recommendation from the governor and the parole board that Mr Al-Megrahi be released on compassionate grounds that the justice secretary based his decision."

This is the process that is followed in all cases where compassionate release is being considered, it is not necessarily the opinion of one doctor, but it is a report compiled by Scottish Prison Service director of health and care.
These accusation are beyond tasteless, and smack of desperation by the opposition. But hey if you are so sure of it call for a vote of no confidence, after all it is a minority government, it should not be such a hard thing to do.
16

,

26/08/2009 00:21:30
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17

tam-the-bam,

geswaqop 26/08/2009 00:23:24
mmmmm hadock n chips with mushy peas n scalops....and diet coke.....plus a scratch hear n there
18

tam-the-bam,

vriuytbvf 26/08/2009 00:24:06
i'm getn hungry
19

Am Balach,

Isle of Skye 26/08/2009 00:25:31
Hickory

If you understood Scottish politics you would realise that Labour and the SNP are sworn enemies. I fully appreciate why Americans are upset by this decision but you have to accept it at face value. There is no oil deal.

Some of your fellow Americans should remember the many Scottish soldiers who have died in your wars before bullying Scotland. No matter what our politics no Scot will accept that. Even the famous Rufus I profess.
20

tam-the-bam,

bfgsaw 26/08/2009 00:26:18
No beer or food for soosider

he is a Party Pooper
21

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2009 00:26:22
#14 - as a reverend gentleman you will know that it is not for us to wager on the actions of the Higher Power.
22

tam-the-bam,

Canada 26/08/2009 00:29:32
you people can debate this to no end.....it's done and one man made the decision

the cards are now falling where they will so have some beer....except soosider he gives me head hurt
23

Salus Populi Suprema Lex Esto,

26/08/2009 00:31:40


Just when you thought that the opposition parties couldn't sink any lower.

Make no mistake these suggestions are despicable.

24

Tom R,

26/08/2009 00:32:01
Continuing rubbish from Maddox and the Labour Party (is that one and the same thing?).

Dr Simpson should be ashamed to use this line of attack.

Megrahi is indisputably terminally ill. In truth many of us will have watched relatives die of cancer and will have accepted that no doctor could be certain just how quickly death would come.

Should MacAskill have waited another 3 months only to quite possibly see Megrahi die with no possibility of compassion? Would Dr Simpson have approved his release after a further 3 month delay-surely not? This is just disgraceful politicking by Labour and it is doing them no good at all.
25

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 00:33:28
@21 "as a reverend gentleman you will know that it is not for us to wager on the actions of the Higher Power."

In other words, no you're not prepared to put your money where your mouth is. Quelle surprise.

Incidentally, can you refresh my memory on the chapter and verse of this alleged prohibition on wagering? I'm a little rusty. And also on when Kenny McAskill specified what he meant by "a higher power"? Is it your view that cancer is caused by God, rather than by biological factors?
26

tam-the-bam,

planey 26/08/2009 00:34:51
I'd put all of you gas bags on a plane checked out by the lybian
27

JeannieMac,

26/08/2009 00:35:28
Good lord. Talk about a cheap and flawed attack!

Do they actually expect anyone to fall for that? More of the absolutely disgraceful Labour antics. If they think this is buying them votes, they are very mistaken.

For Shame! And for shame to the Scotsman for publishing this tripe.
28

,

26/08/2009 00:37:20
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29

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2009 00:40:50
#19 - I think you're wrong to say that labour and the nationalists are "sworn enemies" - in real life most politicians of all parties get along fine. They may disagree on programmes and policies but get along perfectly well as humans.

It's only some of the hangers on with "patriotic" usernames on anonymous internet forums that are anyone's "sworn enemies" but they would never say boo to a goose in real life.

See #12 for example - he's probably a wee bald red faced man who drives a green VW Passat with all patriotic stickers and a saltire on the number plate and tailgates you and hoots his horn if you keep below the speed limit. Like the wee bald red faced man in the green VW Passat with all patriotic stickers and a saltire on the number plate who tailgated me and hooted his horn because I kept below the speed limit yesterday.

I didn't respond because I was worried he would suffer a stroke because of his elevated blood pressure. I just gave a merry wave and made even more sure that I was keeping well within the speed limit. They hate that when you do it.

Where were we?
30

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 00:43:36
@25 "Where were we?"

We were waiting for you to answer the questions at 25.
31

JeannieMac,

26/08/2009 00:43:42
"Kenny MacAskill released him apparently on the advice of just one doctor whose status is not clear and who is not named.”

This from someone who had NOT examined the man which means he has no actual idea--and "APPARENTLY ont the advice of just one doctor" which means he actually has NO idea how many doctors advised.

What a waste of hot air. You don't expect much from these people but this is much lower than even usual. They are certainly showing their desperation.
32

,

26/08/2009 00:45:26
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33

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 26/08/2009 00:45:38

Labour and the Conservatives in Scotland would be wise to unite in the decision's made by Kenny MacAskill, who showed the world our moral values of our constitution of Law.
Instead of this, they find it fit to question the very grounds to what Scotland stands for, I will now never cast my vote their way, they have shown in my mind, they have very little interest in what we are about, and only trying to win popularity, to-which now will not take place.

34

Brianwci,

26/08/2009 00:47:13
Having failed to make any real headway to date the Brit Nats turn their fevered imaginations to the medical evidence.

Having never actually seen the patient they are willing to go by the reports.

However as much as the condition of the patient days before his release medical opinion would also be looking at how rapid his deterioration was.

This factor is as important if not more so than his actual physical condition.

But the Brit Nats are keen to keep Mr Al Megrahi on the front pages thus this new angle. I fear it will be no more successful than their other efforts.

Even Lord Fraser agreed with the decision to release but disagreed with part of the procedure.
35

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 00:47:26
@32 "buggered if I know"

Thought not. Let's just take it as read that that's your actual level of information and insight on all subjects from now on, eh?

Incidentally, I use my real name on forums and messageboards, because I'm not ashamed of my opinions. It seems that you are. Once again, I can't quite muster surprise.
36

Am Balach,

Isle of Skye 26/08/2009 00:48:48
Labour just don't get it. How do they think that this cheap politiking is going down amongst their traditional supporters? Labour voters from groups such as social workers, health workers, teachers - and the Christian community, especially Roman Catholics - will instictively support the compassionate decision to release Magrahi.

Witness the unseemly spectacle of Scottish Labour's disgraceful, dirty polics.

I think even Gordon Brown will be embarrassed by the antics of his crowd of msps (Malcolm Chisholm excepted).
37

Peeablo,

Everywhere 26/08/2009 00:50:14
Scotsman RUBBISH !!!
38

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2009 00:50:41
#35 - I use my real name too. But I'm not saying which Fifi la Bonbon I am. I'm not daft.

Do you drive a green Passat?
39

Salem,

26/08/2009 00:52:26
I happen to disagree with the decision to release Meghari.

But I am convinced Kenny MacAskill went out of his way to follow the letter of the law and in particular to ensure the veracity of the medical reports.

Simpson was playing politics he is a disgrace.

In the bigger picture the question is how this event will affect the SNP’s standing in the upcoming election.
40

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2009 00:54:18
#35 - with respect to theologistics, you may be right. But hardly anyone knows about these things except the Pope of Rome and Professor Donald Macleod, and I bet neither of them would advise betting with respect to the doings of the Higher Power.
41

Cynicus Unbound,

26/08/2009 00:56:34
"This smells very fishy"-#2, Justin Timbercake

Stop sniffing the net Rufus. Instead, cast it aq bit wider. You mat=y land the big one:they are ALL trying to close down this story. None of them wants you to know the truth.

Not the US government who have given poiltical asylum to their former 'mole' inside the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine.

Not the UK government, whose Foreign Secretary Vulcan Miliband has impose Public Immunity Certificates on this evidence- and other.

Neither government wanted to rock the boat with either Iran (sponsor of the bombing) or Syria (protector of PFLP) at the time of Gulf War I. They still don't At the time they wanted only to nail Libya' sanctions busters -including a certain Mr al-Megrahi. Now they compete for the title, "Libya's best pal"

Not the Scottish government which jealously guards the Scottish justice system. Unfortunately the Crown declined to reveal evidence implicating Iran/Syria at the time of Megrahi's trial -despite the considerable caseload of Dumfries and Galloway Police implicating Iran/Syria.

Oh, never mind! What does it matter if they got a Libyan rather than a man from Leabonon -where the real bomber came from. Libyan/Lebanon -they sound much the same, especially to American ears.

How long will this ludicrous phoney war last? Until Christine Grahame MSP names the real bomber next week?

42

Vivas,

Edinburgh 26/08/2009 00:59:02
I'm not a clinician but I do work in cancer research. Any notion that life expectancy this situation is an exact science or would have clinical unanimity is completely wrong. Megrahi may live for 2 months, he may live for 6. Dr. Simpson may wish to joust with the opinions of those medics who advised MacAskill. The fact is, the more medics you have in the room, the greater will be the disagreement...

MacAskill was given advice on this and followed it. Equally correctly, those who gave that advice, should not be hung out to dry in the event that Megrahi lives for longer than anticipated.

I'm afraid that I find Dr. Simpsons position on this to be clouded by party political consideration, and for a medic that is very regrettable.
43

Ruthven,

Bellshill 26/08/2009 01:02:08
This is a shamefully propagandistic piece. A small country like Scotland cannot support the same diversity of publications that a larger country like Britain is able to. I feel, then, that there is a special obligation on the two quality newspapers that we have to strive for impartiality, at least in their journalistic coverage, if not their comment.

Sadly, David Maddox falls well short of that standard. He operates like a political hatchet man working for Pravda in the old Cold War Days. The blog post he made on Friday, for example, should be considered well beyond the pale of acceptability in what aspires to be a quality newspaper, even if we apply less severe standards to blog posts than we do to published articles. David Maddox is a political soldier masquerading as a journalist.
44

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 26/08/2009 01:03:35
Yer clutching at straws Maddox. You and your Labore pals have been on the wrong side of this one from the git go and now you're looking pathetic and desperate.
Time to take a little rest.
There must be a long time sufferer on the Hearts beat who needs a change of scenery.
Kenny MacAskill kicked butt during the "emergency" debate at Holyrood. The oppo parties had nothing left but nit-pick stuff when public opinion turned violently against them. And they knew it.
The issue ended right then and there. Now it's nothing more than axe grinding by sore losers. David Maddox being Big Loser Number One with a Bullet.
Kenny Rules!!!
45

Castaway™ ,

26/08/2009 01:07:58
"Up-to-date medical reports from three eminent experts also concurred in the view that he has a very aggressive cancer, that his condition is grave and that the prognosis is extremely limited."
The BBC has been told that the medical advice the minister received has suggested Mr al-Megrahi may have less than three months to live, which normally qualifies a prisoner for release on compassionate grounds. BBC 18 August 2009

It does not matter if Al-Megrahi dies one day after the 3 months or lives for a few more years, Kenny MacAskill made his decision to release Al-Megrahi on compassionate grounds under Scottish law. KM based his decision to release Al-Megrahion on the information including the medical advice he received at this moment in time.

Scottish Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill decided to release al-Megrahi on compassionate grounds because the Libyan has prostate cancer and was given only months to live, when assessed by four doctors.
It is the opinion of the Scottish Prison Service doctors who have dealt with him prior to, during and following the diagnosis of prostate cancer and having seen him during each of these stages, that his clinical condition has declined significantly.
"Assessment by a range of specialists has reached the firm consensus that his disease is, after several different trials of treatment, hormone resistant, resistant to any treatment options of known effectiveness."
46

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 26/08/2009 01:08:12
I find it hard to believe that MacAskill would have made a decision on compassionate release without making pretty sure that the medical reports stacked up to indicate a prognosis of 3 months life expectancy. Someone will have had to sign off the medical report that landed on the justice secretary's desk. And it would have been an official medical officer. It would have carried the recommendation that compassionate release was appropriate.

Macaskill made his decision on the paperwork presented to him. His civil servants ought to have gone through the reports with a fine tooth comb to check that all the "i"s were dotted and all the "t"s crossed. This was the most serious decision ever made by a justice secretary. Medical opinions are merely that - opinions. Time will tell how accurate the opinions were. That is not something which MacAskill has on this.

For the opposition to dispute the quality of the medical reports smacks of desperation. At least the Scottish government has put them in the public domain, and as I understand they were made available to interested parties prior to the announcement.

Labour must be rubbing their hands that the medical advice might be flawed. Flawed or not, it was the opinion of these doctors, whom I assume were competent and authorised to make a prognosis, that MacAskill had to base his decision. MacAskill is a politician and a lawyer. He is not a physician or cancer specialist. He had to make his judgement on the information he received
47

Jimmy Fae the West,

In the Land O' Green Ginger. (HULL) 26/08/2009 01:09:37
Sadly the papers have jumped the gun yet again and the Unionist ninnies are leading them on their twentieth goose chase on this subject. A bit of Brown hesitancy to check the direction of the wind would serve well on this subject.

Scotsman tales such as anger at SNP dithering, Shock as SNP make wrong decision, Horror as Gray knew the outcome weeks before announcement, Disagreement as Lab/cons would suppress Scots law, and now we are treated to; Labour GP disagrees with cancer Specialists and Prison Doctors opinion.

I think it is time for the papers and the obscene BBC to get behind our Minister, our government and our laws and it i time to let the London Free-marketeers know that Scotland is a different nation with independent laws governing it's independent people.

Brown has spoken for New Labour when he said - ?Well done England Cricket team"? Oh no, It was - "We have no part in the release of the prisoner". So, Mr Gray, Murphy and labour GP take note!
48

Vivas,

Edinburgh 26/08/2009 01:15:39
Medical advice always contains doubt. Its implicit in the advice. Its a best estimate, based on the experience of the medic, the known outlook of people who've had the disease before ... and a dollop of uncertainty on the physical and mental fortitude of the patient and the effectiveness of, and response to, one or more treatments.

Next time I get the flu and I'm told I'll be better after 48 hours, then I'll be organising a malpractice suit it I still have a sneeze at 49 hours or a runny nose at 72 hours.

This line of "MacAskill is toast if Megrahi lives longer than 3 months" is utterly utterly absurd.
49

James at Perth,

26/08/2009 01:19:17
There is no fixed period in statute. Labour's tame medic Simpson is wrong to suggest there is and he is venturing expert opinion never having examined the patient. At least MacAskill has met him. I hope Simpson does not make a habit of public diagnosis; second guessing a case which is not his!!!

There is no doubt Magrahi has an agressive form of the disease and so there is little prospect of remission. It is just a matter of time; let Simpson deny that. Let's say he might live in the range 3 to 12 months who cares. Simpson knows it is not a precise science. Does compassion only apply at 90 days? Do we deny a dying man an extra lap?

MacAskill has made his judgent. If he is wildly wrong he knows he is going to be held to account.

The big laugh is UK Labour wanted Magrahi's release. Tripoli was given the diplomatic nod. Now Ian Gray is suggesting he would have scuppered this careful diplomacy by refusing release? Oh, really?

Grey and his supporters appear ridiculous, whether they have been instructed to take this line by UK management or not. In the former case they appear puppets, in the latter clowns.
50

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 26/08/2009 01:20:20
Keep this in mind as Scotland waltzes down the path toward independence.
In many real countries the "independence" of the media is assured by strict foreign ownership rules.
No papers owned by loony right-wing Australians, Malaysian recluses. etc.
Will post independence Scotland be any different?
And is the Scotsman's manic hatred for the SNP just doing the cynical bidding for the newspaper's ultimate gaffer?
Who ironically is a Tamil.

51

murren59,

Isle of Arran 26/08/2009 01:24:16
I just read elsewhere that Megrahi served about 11.5 days per victim.

Based on that, and being such a 'compassionate people',
we should just close all prisons and save ourselves a whole lot of money.

I mean why should some poor misunderstood wee ned get six months for viciously battering some auld granny when the going rate for murder is just 11.5 days?

Here wis me thinking / hoping that the SNP might be for a wee bit of law and order / crime and punishment, an'aw'at. Stupid me.
52

Salem,

26/08/2009 01:26:04
# 43

The Internet is putting newspapers out of business around the world, Scotland is no exception.

The only thing that matters is that people know and understand that the Scotsman is a sycophantic mouthpiece for the failed Labour Party.

And fortunately they do!

The Scotsman has little to do about reporting it’s all about commentary.

With Brown in so much trouble it is difficult to come up with anything positive to say about Labour so they don’t report the bad stuff and instead focus on ways to discredit the SNP.

With this strategy they are fooling nobody but themselves because people can see right through the deception.
53

Vivas,

Edinburgh 26/08/2009 01:27:47
There are 2 professions who will give you any number of widely ranging opinions on a finely detailed matter. Meidcs and lawyers.

In practice we all have to take the advice of one - or a handful - of these people.
54

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 01:35:51
@51 "I just read elsewhere that Megrahi served about 11.5 days per victim..."

Oh shut up, you dimwit. People stopped trotting out that line days ago, when they realised that even if Megrahi had served his full 27 years that would still only have amounted to about five weeks per victim, which sounds just as pathetic, and that it's therefore a pretty retarded point. Evidently you weren't paying attention that day.
55

James at Perth,

26/08/2009 01:38:54

Many of you think the media are anti-SNP. You need to get past that. The more credible an administration becomes the more venom it attracts. Take it as a complement.

Who bothers getting ripped into the Tories or Libdems, who have enough sweety wives to fill a steamie. Whoops, I am undermining my point there.

When you get News International on your case you know you have arrived. It sells papers. It gets website hits. Why do you think the Scotman winds you all up.

So rise to the occasion, look and laugh at all that, never cry foul, never get mad, just make your points and get even.
56

,

26/08/2009 01:38:56
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57

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2009 01:50:15
#54 - "even if Megrahi had served his full 27 years that would still only have amounted to about five weeks per victim"

Good point, your reverence. That's presumably why the Crown was appealing against the leniency of the sentence.
58

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2009 01:56:42
#55 - a nice way of putting it is that all governments get criticised in the media and get difficult questions put to them. Also, comedians and satirists poke fun at them. People in government in a grown-up democracy learn to put up with it without whining and calling for the press to be suppressed and critical reporters to be silenced!

So why do so many cybernats prowl these columns demanding exactly that?

59

Jimmy Fae the West,

In the Land O' Green Ginger. (HULL) 26/08/2009 02:00:27
*Medical advice on Libyan bomber 'in doubt'*

No it's not!!!

What is in doubt is the denial that the Unionists are Anti-Scottish and their claim to love the Saltire? Remember Murphy's pages in the Hootsman about claiming back the Scottish flag? Well the truth is now clear for all to see. the Unionists hate all things Scottish and their refusal to co-operate on the trade dals documents should be reciprocated by Holyrood.

Now As The Scotsman, it is time to decide whether to add the words "In London" to the end of the title!

WE will not be assimilated to either the US of Torture or the United Kingdom of complicity. I repeat a question posed on this forum, If the US Senator John Bolton instructed Iain Gray to execute Baset as he desired would Gray also comply?
60

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 02:00:41
@57 "That's presumably why the Crown was appealing against the leniency of the sentence. "

...an appeal which has now mysteriously fallen by the wayside. Why IS that, do you think?

And of course, even if Megrahi had lived out a full natural life it would still only have amounted to six or seven weeks per victim, so the point is altered not one iota.
61

James at Perth,

26/08/2009 02:00:51

"11.5 days per victim"

Say a typical sentence is 10 years for a murder. So for 270 murders that would be a 2700 year sentence. Now that will teach these terrorists.

The breaking news that the US is to impose mandatory death sentences on all suicide bombers to give a clear signal that terrorism will not be tolerated.
62

,

26/08/2009 02:04:33
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63

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2009 02:08:58
#60 - I don't know, but I imagine it was to make sure there were as few potential obstacles as possible to letting the Lockerbie bomber fly home to his Mum.

Not that this was necessary, as the Justice minister has unfettered discretion under the 1993 Act as to whether to free a murderer on "compassionate" grounds. I suppose it would just look daft for the lord Advocate to go on to the appeal court to demand the full 270 life sentences to be imposed on a chap sitting in luxury in a villa in Tripoli, waiting for the Higher Power to sort him out.
64

An American of Scottish descent,

26/08/2009 02:10:30
Mr. MacAskill
Your problem is your law. What is a law of compassion? You want to lock a guy up in prison for his entire life, then let him out for 3 months and call that COMPASSION? I think you just want to make yourself feel superior, because you have been "compassionate", and you have the power over this guy's life. It's your sick egos. You get to decide when he can be set free to die, and you can say you've done the compassionate thing, and then feel good about yourself. Let God handle the compassion, you're not really fooling anybody. You're not compassionate, you're not superior. You're the guy who wants to put a man in prison, forget about him for 20-30 years, then get to free him, pat yourselves on the back and call yourself "compassionate". Stop deluding yourself, we all see through your hipocracy.
65

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2009 02:14:14
#62 - "Perhaps because in Scotland in opposition or in government the attacks on the SNP have been relentless and OTT."


And quite right too. In fact, the only political party that gets it worse is labour, and quite right about that as well! What I think the cybernats want is for the nationalists to be treated with the same respect that the greens and tories and lib dems are treated. I hope that day comes soon too! But in the meantime, the cybernats and the politicians they love will just need to enjoy the stuff that comes with governing in a democracy.
66

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 26/08/2009 02:16:07
By the way, what happened to all those Mad-As-Hell-and-We-Ain't-Gonna-Take-It-Anymore Yanks?
Kinda faded into the woodwork, didn't they.
Biggest story in the New York Daily News today?
Bam plays golf during his hols on Martha's Vineyard.
It's the end of the world as we know it. NOT!!
All Alex has to do is dangle a round at St. Andrew's or Glen Eagles and he'll have him eating out of his hand.

67

Jimmy Fae the West,

In the Land O' Green Ginger. (HULL) 26/08/2009 02:24:56
#65,
I take you also object to the AngloNats and the BritNats? We have many such tribes here in East Riding calling for the devolution of Yorkshire! they're the England Democrats. Check out how their manifesto which looks like a Real BNP gang!

Disaffected Tories who are malcontent at the mediocrity Mr Cameron. If that is the type of policy you like, you could start a branch in your neighbourhood but don't expect to keep your Electoral deposit. Just as unsuccessful as the England democrats are the dead-beat Tories who are heading for a total wipe-out in Scotland after their decision to support the CIA instead of backing British!
68

Salem,

26/08/2009 02:27:10
# 64 & # 66

The fake Americans and comedians have arrived!

Goodnight!
69

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2009 02:27:36
#64 - I think you're one of those Mad-As-Hell-and-We-Ain't-Gonna-Take-It-Anymore Yanks mentioned at #66. Please stop bullying us poor wee Scots.

To be fair, Mr McAskill is a consistent forgiver of criminals.

He has taken steps to ensure that nobody who would ordinarily go to jail for a sentence of less than six months should actually go to jail, because they won't get rehabilitated. His new habit of freeing murderers with a medical condition after calling round for a cup of tea and a wee chat is just another side to that. And of course the Lockerbie bomber has been rehabilitated after those eight years. So it works!

I think that since he got his current job the Higher Power talks to him and tells him what to do.
70

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2009 02:31:15
#67 - I don't know who they are but I'm sure that they are not to be encouraged. If anything, they sound like a local version of the Lega Nord in Italy, which I've said before is the real model for our nationalist party in Scotland.
71

An American of Scottish descent,

26/08/2009 02:32:50
#69
Fifi
Sorry, I didn't mean to bully anyone (not all Americans are like that), I just had to get that rant out ... again, the problem is your law. It's really stupid. You guys are going to have trouble with it from now on.
72

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 26/08/2009 02:38:46
#68

I'm a Canuckelhead Scot. Calling me a Yank is fightin' words.
Keep your hands off Willie.
73

Castaway™ ,

26/08/2009 02:41:33
Even in America, with no similar tradition, Megrahi would be eligible for compassionate release under recent guidelines which allow for compassionate release whenever a prisoner is “suffering from a terminal illness".
Jonathan Mitchell, QC 24 August 2009
74

Jimmy Fae the West,

In the Land O' Green Ginger. (HULL) 26/08/2009 02:42:27
#70, I have no idea whether you wish to google the name to visit their website but I assure you they did have morals at one time but since Mr Griffin has done for the wicked BNP what Cameron has done for the nasty party, all the extermists of the Conservative party and BNP have left and sadly latched onto these poor schmucks!

There is also a great deal of support here in England for the Minster's decision but the Media are aggressively pursuing a single agenda of rubbishing this release and leading with a lot of theories, suspicion and innuendo such as the Times having this tale on their early edition and the BBC will run with it most of tomorrow.
75

Ben Macdui,

57.07033 degrees North 26/08/2009 02:48:04
BBC News, Politics:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8218060.stm

Lockerbie move 'not terror boost'.
The release of the Lockerbie bomber has not given "succour to terrorists", Gordon Brown's spokesman has said.
76

Jimmy Fae the West,

In the Land O' Green Ginger. (HULL) 26/08/2009 02:48:07
#74,

CORRECTION!

That should read extremists, honest LOL.
77

An American of Scottish descent,

26/08/2009 02:48:19
#73
Damn, I had to google that. That's all WE need; more stupid bleeding hearts bullsh*t legislation. Kinda wish you hadn't told me about that ... well, maybe our judges will have more political savvy than your MacAskill, and not try to do the "right thing".
78

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 26/08/2009 02:48:49
In all of this, we have three hero's, who have shown their true selves, an what they stand for, the standing of our values, and not of terrorism, to-which has no compassion for an insect, far less a human being!
We should support with honour our three major players in this event,
1. Alex Salmond.
2. Kennie MacAskill.
3. Gordon Brown.
All true to their Country, and standing by our moral values.

79

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 26/08/2009 02:49:30
In all of this, we have three hero's, who have shown their true selves, and what they stand for, the standing of our values, and not of terrorism, to-which has no compassion for an insect, far less a human being!
We should support with honour our three major players in this event,
1. Alex Salmond.
2. Kennie MacAskill.
3. Gordon Brown.
All true to their Country, and standing by our moral values.

80

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 26/08/2009 02:58:09

Gordon Brown, for saying nothing, as it was not his place to do-so!

Alex Salmond for his Support of Kennie MacAskill.

Kennie MacAskill, for his supreme wisdom, and law abiding justice of our Scottish institution of Laws.

81

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2009 02:58:51
#71 - I was using the famous British irony - of course I don't think you were bullying us, any more than I think Scotland is a poor wee country, that confuses the justified anger of people from the USA at seeing the convicted murderer of 180 fellow citizens going free, with bullying. Only people who secretly suspect that their country is second rate would feel bullied in such circumstances. You let it out.

Nor is the law stupid. It's been in place for sixteen years, and there are similar laws in England and I'm sure elsewhere. And when used properly - e.g. to let an 80-year-old bank robber afflicted by a series of strokes leave prison to go and stay in a nursing home, it's maybe fair enough. Maybe.

The problem isn't the law, it's the judgement of the minister with the powers granted under law.

Mr McAskill was wrong to let this man go free, and he should have recognised that the feelings of the large majority of victims' families outweigh the desire to be nice to the apparently dying. The Lockerbie bomber should have been required to live out the rest of his days in a Scottish prison, as Rudolf Hess was made to die in Spandau jail.

I think we who disagree ought to strive to respect the sincerity of those who genuinely think Mr McAskill made the right decision, just as we should expect that they respect our sincerity.
82

mark mccann,

26/08/2009 02:59:35
#71 Our laws are only stupid to someone who is used to a medieval legal system, where they don't rise above the level of the perpetrator. In other words you still kill your prisoners, you lock people up for life under the "3 strikes and your out" rule, you let just about anyone own a gun, your judges will probably lock up a Scotsman with Aspergers syndrom for 40 years, and all he did was expose your shabby computer security. Our laws may not be perfect but at least they're not insane, or monstrous.
83

Jimmy Fae the West,

Hull 26/08/2009 03:00:23
#78 & 79

The SNP WILL poblish all documents and interviews before the debate in parliament, in what form does Mr James G Brown's honour take? He has undermined our democracy, our laws and our sovereignty. He is deserving only of our contempt.
84

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2009 03:03:37
#82 - now that sounds like someone with an inferiority complex about our country.
85

Edward,

26/08/2009 03:04:29
If its written by David Maddox, then you can bet its a Labour spin story.
Maddox/Labour are being selective with the facts (as usual)
86

Traquìr,

Alba 26/08/2009 03:04:29

It would appear that the Brit Nats lead my Maddox are so desperate to find something to attack the SNP with that they are turning into ghouls. Next they will be demanding a live autopsy to prove how deep, extensive and no doubt how painful the cancer is. Totally sick and pathetic.
87

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2009 03:07:03
#86 - good point about a more rigorous physical examination. It would have done nothing but help Mr McAskill's case.
88

Jimmy Fae the West,

In the Land O' Green Ginger. (HULL) 26/08/2009 03:08:32
The reason Justice wears a Blindfold is that she will not be affected by lynch-mob mentality of the victims. Victims must never be allowed to sit in judgement or tou end up with the law of the jungle. You have the Law of Scotland and the wisdom of Solomon in the SNP. Enjoy as it may not be forever. Support the motion.
89

Castaway™ ,

26/08/2009 03:12:23
Can Cathy Jamieson (Scottish Labour) or Jim Wallace (Scottish Liberals) who as justice ministers granted between them over twenty compassionate release applications, point to a single case in which an application for a terminally-ill prisoner was refused on their watch? I doubt it.
Jonathan Mitchell, QC 24 August 2009 http://tiny.cc/cyAZR
90

mark mccann,

26/08/2009 03:12:28
#84 Eh? Explain that statement please? I'm very proud of our laws!
91

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2009 03:13:05
#88 - "Victims must never be allowed to sit in judgement or tou end up with the law of the jungle. "


True, with respect to the judgement of guilt and innocence, which is a function of the courts. Although victim impact is a legitimate issue when passing se ntence on a convicted criminal.

But when a minister is making an administrative decision such as whether to let a murderer go free on licence he ought to weigh up a wider range of factors in the public interest, and central to that is the impact of his decision making in respect of a man convicted of mass murder on the families of his victims.
92

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2009 03:17:49
#90 - but you attack the country of the person whose remarks you are criticising in such a brutal, almost racist way that it sounds as if you are hitting back against someone who you feel threatened by.

This is a person who is rightly outraged at the perverse way in which a murderer of 180 fellow citizens got set free. He is entitled to sympathy and solidarity, not hearing his homeland trashed.

An addtional irony is that the rule giving powers to release a prisoner at any time on compassionate grounds is equally part of the law of England.
93

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2009 03:21:40
#89 - luckily for them they never had to make such a decision in respect of the Lockerbie bomber. If either of them had set him free I and I hope all the other refuseniks would lay into them as vigorously as I am laying into Mr McAskill for his bad decision.
94

Traquìr,

Alba 26/08/2009 03:21:57

I see that Mr Maddox includes in his headline the quote 'in doubt', where was this quoted from ? Perhaps again just another made up headline by Mr Maddox ?
95

,

26/08/2009 03:25:46
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96

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2009 03:26:24
#94 - any time I complain about a misleading headline I get told that the reporter doesn't write the headline, it's written by a sub-editor. Apparently headline writing is a special skill that ordinary reporters don't possess.
97

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 26/08/2009 03:27:12
The unionists are DEEPLY IN TROUBLE NOW IN SCOTLAND. HAVE A BAD DAY...............
98

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2009 03:27:17
#95 - away and set up your own paper!
99

Traquìr,

26/08/2009 03:32:48
98 Fifi la Bonbon,

"#95 - away and set up your own paper! "

No need when you can buy and improve a rapidly declining paper like the Scotsman which has collapsed from being worth £160m in 2005 down to now being haggled over at around £40m. Probably at least £40m of the collapse is due to Maddox alone.

"Several high-profile businessmen have been approached to join the consortium, which has the blessing of Alex Salmond, Scotland’s first minister. Thomson, the chairman of Noble Group, the boutique investment bank, is said to be arranging financing. "

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/media/article6806358.ece

Johnston Press have of course denied these rumours, but given we don't believe their stories we are hardly going to believe the denial.
100

Fifi la Bonbon,

26/08/2009 03:35:49
I look forward to the first issue of the Daily McGlashan.
101

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 26/08/2009 03:37:06
#97

Your astute but not necessarily in depth analysis is to the contrary.
If Westminster is fleeing south of the Tweed with it's tail between its legs over this issue,as you suggest, is surely a very good day. Is is not? Or has the smog, wildfire smoke and hyperventilating over Jacko got to yer noggin?
102

,

26/08/2009 04:04:23
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103

Jimmy Fae the West,

In the Land O' Green Ginger. (HULL) 26/08/2009 04:09:08
#91,

The security and justice of Scotland will never take precedence over international trade deals and it is so in the USA and Libya and it was very unfortunate that the Scottish opposition parties were arguing in parliament from a position of ignorance when they attacked the Scottish justice minister in Holyrood. MacAskill had already spoken at length to the families of the victims in the USA. I hope and believe he accorded the Scottish families that same respect. However grief, vengeance, blood-lust, politics and anger has no place in Scottish justice so all contrary views to the minister's are wrong whether they are from Cameron, Gray or America. Criminal compensation, hurt feelings or revenge does not and must never, take precedence over justice regardless of attempts to subvert Scottish law by political bigots with an anti-Scottish agenda.
104

Jimmy Fae the West,

In the Land O' Green Ginger. (HULL) 26/08/2009 04:15:10
Another correction so I am off to bed for two hours sleep!

#91,

The security and justice of Scotland will never take precedence over international trade deals - should read - *Trade deals will never take precedence over Justice and security*-. At least I cannot be accused of cutting and pasting?
105

Ewan Randall,

26/08/2009 04:37:28
Aren’t there minimum criteria for the confirmation of medical evidence that should have been followed in instances such as these?

Were they followed as they should have been?

Was the evidence given by an appropriate medical expert from the field of expertise necessary to deliberate on this specific medical condition?

If not what are the procedures that should have been set in place to make sure they should have been?

Were the qualifications of those giving their deliberations even considered in relation to what evidence they were giving out?

Aren’t there guidelines which preclude interested parties of the client being assessed from being the sole advisor on the deliberation of their client’s condition?

If not could this not lead to the possibility of irregularities in the outcome of any legal proceedings?

Was the letter of the law followed or engineered to seemingly fit?

Should there be categories of prisoners who should not be considered for compassionate release?

Should these decisions not really be taken out of the hands of politicians?

If three months of life expectancy is ok for defining compassionate release then why not longer?

Would it not be in the public interest for proceedings to include appropriate medical expert testimony from at least two separate experts?

Why was it suggested that Kenny MacAskill’s deliberations could only have been made if Mr Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al-Megrahi dropped his appeal?

Is it not the case that it is unnecessary in compassionate release cases for appeal cases to be dropped?


106

murren59,

26/08/2009 04:39:15
#54 Rev BS
>Oh shut up, you dimwit. People stopped trotting out that line days ago, when they realised that even if Megrahi had served his full 27 years that would still only have amounted to about five weeks per victim, which sounds just as pathetic, and that it's therefore a pretty retarded point. Evidently you weren't paying attention that day.<

Dimwit? How nasty - wherr's yerr compassion - I'll report you to the Rev.MacAskill, who does come over as a big hypocritical country yokel meenister. Like yourself - are you and him one and the same per chance?
And aye, a lot of reasonable people would be well pleased if your favourite mass murderer had served a 'pathetic' five weeks per victim.
107

Canis Majoris,

Texas 26/08/2009 04:41:58
What is this Higher Power ye all speak off ?? Here in the US our Higher Power is the US Supreme Court
108

Mìcheal a Eilean Rùim,

Richmond 26/08/2009 04:49:55
I read the original medical report which was published in the London Times a week ago. Not realizing at that time that everything about Magrahi's condition would be used as a reason to attack Mr. MacAskill’s credibility, I didn't think to copy the report.
The report itself gave various details about his condition but the attending specialists's names were blacked out by The Times.
The details given suggested that Al-Megrahi had only months to live and made it clear that he has one of the more aggressive forms of prostate cancer.
The reference is www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6804231.ece. Given that a friend of mine died within two months of being diagnosed with the same condition, I accepted the information at its face value.
109

theboyd,

Colorado, USA 26/08/2009 05:04:42
It saddens me to see the lack of transparency in your government, just as ours. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to have some faith in the elected officials we place in positions of authority? I fully realize that this is completely idealistic, but a government of the people,by the people, and for the people is obviously nothing but a lost platitude in this 21st century. Hopefully, the masses will someday become so enraged with these cover-ups that they will demand an honest government: Probably not to happen in my lifetime, but it's interesting to ponder.
110

Don Mc,

USA 26/08/2009 05:10:54
Scotland is demonstating its fitness to return to the community of nations as an free, independent and self-governing people. You will be a welcome addition to the ranks of the rational, and yes, compassionate nations of the world.
111

Macuistean,

On the mainland 26/08/2009 05:11:31
The man has now been released and won't be back. If the (so called) opposition in the Scottish Parliament want a head then have a vote of no confidence in KM and see if they can get it passed. If that happens (big doubt) then the Government can then let the people of Scotland have their say in an election but then turkeys don't vote for Christmas.
112

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 26/08/2009 05:31:30
#110

Holy sh!t, an Ameri-Scot with an IQ above that of an armadillo. There truly is hope.
I'd advise you to buy those tartan trus from the Orvis site pronto. But no Johnny Walker, ya ken.
113

Baggy Troosers,

26/08/2009 05:40:26
Feefee away to your bed you've done nothing but rabbit on all night .

We also get the message in your continual reference to MaAskill's use of the word "higher power", heavens you've used it enough since Thursday.

You are like the proverbial broken down record and extremely boring with it

If you ARE a woman you must be a lonely old spinster with no love life and no prospects of a love life , therefor you come on here nightly just to irritate other people, get a life woman /man.
114

BOBO UMBONGONDO,

26/08/2009 05:55:45
OK, let us assume just to humour the conspiricists, that there is some substance in the "Englishmans" article, that begs the question (again)why ? Who ordered a deal be done, why was a deal done and westminster, what of their role.
All in all piish poor journalism,another non story, by an organ rapidly on the slide, very rapidly.
115

Baggy Troosers,

26/08/2009 06:23:18
Well thats the Labour party attacked Alex Salmond then Kenny MacAskill,having failed to land a punch on these two men the have turned their attention to the Doctors in the hope of branding them liars.

It seems to me that they are going down the chain of command in the desperate attempt to get some mud to stick.

Who will they attack next ,will it be the prison officers , will it be the Police escorting him to the airport , or will it be the airport staff themselves for allowing the plane to land and take off.

Labour trawling the Gutter.
116

BOBO UMBONGONDO,

26/08/2009 06:28:03
I should have added,....whose best interests are served by Mr Megrahi's appeal withering on the vine.
117

Baggy Troosers,

26/08/2009 06:31:36
Lets get one thing straight here ,the UK Government AND the US Government, far from being outraged ,wil be absolutely delighted that the one major obstacle to trading with Libya and getting access to the oil fields has been eliminated.

Make no mistake if this man had died in custody then these corridors would have been closed forever and vast buisiness opportunities lost.

Its just a pity that the Scots Government did the dirty work for them ,so both Governments need to cut the crocodile tears and get on with it.
As i said the Crocodile tears from both Governments
118

Baggy Troosers,

26/08/2009 06:32:52
is pathetic
119

BOBO UMBONGONDO,

26/08/2009 06:40:25
It would appear a D notice has been issued to all organs, with regard to a gentleman living happily in Washington DC.
120

Ron Thomson,

Penicuik 26/08/2009 06:45:16
Another blinding cover up, the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing, well i suppose that Scotland will be getting cheap petrol for many years to come or maybe a twinning of Countries rather than cities is in the making.
121

donnelly,

26/08/2009 06:45:48
#1 yes Alba ...extreme selective snippets and comments from the paragon of unbiased reporting ..Mad Dog..

What can one say, but, I sometimes wish it was certain others that had a three month termination sceanrio on them?
122

JRM,

Alabama 26/08/2009 06:49:50
Scots argue with each other, Scots and Americans argue with each other, and Americans argue with Americans. The whole time American and British Companies line up to do some Oil business. The feeling I had of being a fool under Bush has not gone away as I hoped. The Libyans are laughing at us all, and doing so all the way to the bank. Neither side of the Atlantic seems to have a monopoly on stupid.
123

SouthernSkye,

Bonn 26/08/2009 06:55:51
Bored with this story now.
The only ones seemingly incensed are UK press and part of the populus, USA and Oz. For all those who doubt the medical evidence and are "outraged" at this compassionate move by the Scottish Government, why not set up your own sweep-stake on how long the Libyan will live? Might be able to keep your hackles up for months that way until the man is dead!
124

Pip10,

English sorry................ 26/08/2009 06:58:18
I refuse to get too wound up either way about this until a reasonable timescale has elapsed i.e. 6 months. If he is dead then I will not even bother thinking about the rights or wrongs. If he is still alive, then and only then do I think the proverbial should hit the fan. Heads should then role and that could well be in London and NOT in Scotland I suspect............ and starting at the top, not with some fall guy being chosen.
125

Grahamski,

Falkirk 26/08/2009 07:12:54
Things are just going from bad to worse for poor Mr MacAskill: first he was caught out trying to claim that legally he was obliged to visit Mr Al Megrahi personally (no he wasn't), then he tried to claim that medical evidence was overwhelming (No it wasn't - only one out of four of the doctors considered Mr Al Megrahi's life expectancy to be three months)

Now this from the Times:

"Strathclyde Police told The Times that contrary to the impression given to MSPs, they were not asked whether they could handle the security implications of transferring Abdul Baset Ali al-Megrahi from prison to a secure residence in Scotland.

A spokesman for the force said that if it had been asked it would have provided whatever personnel were required."

Yikes, poor wee Kenny better go and get that 'higher power' to save him, looks like an act of god is the only thing that'll keep him in a job....


126

Saul Tyre,

26/08/2009 07:15:07
If this guy turns out to be innocent (and a lot of people believe he is), let's all hope he does live much longer than just three months.
127

JaF,

26/08/2009 07:15:25
The opposition are the ones who are sick and should consult a doctor, then give us the name of the doctor and publish his/her results just to prove to the Scottish people that they are not suffering from any mental illness. The opposition I mean.
128

Observer,,

Glasgow 26/08/2009 07:22:29
69 Fifi you know you really have got to stop this. All your little personal prejudices are revealed in that post. Try telling the cat and not a newspaper. The cat might believe you.
129

Grahamski,

Falkirk 26/08/2009 07:24:43
128
Good morning Observer, trouble ahead for Mr MacAskill do you think?
The polis don't seem too chuffed......
130

Observer,,

Glasgow 26/08/2009 07:24:53
81 Yer own personal opinion. Not what the law says.
131

Observer,,

Glasgow 26/08/2009 07:27:14
129 Morning Grahamski, from a political point of view this is very intriguing. Cracks are now showing in the Unionist camp. Terrific letter from Chris Mason in the Herald, mind you I've always liked him he walks his own road, as does McLeish and Chisolm. Who knows where this is going to end up.
132

Observer,,

Glasgow 26/08/2009 07:28:45
What's the Polis reference Grahamski? Haven't come across that yet.
133

Grahamski,

Falkirk 26/08/2009 07:30:48
132
See my post at 125. The Times are reporting that the police are contradicting Mr MacAskill's claim that they kaiboshed Mr Al Megrahi staying in Scotland. They say they weren't asked.
134

Phil C,

26/08/2009 07:31:26
#125 Grahamskijump

You are all chirpy this morning, sad really. In my book MacKaskill has been exemplary in his dealings over Megrahi, going from good to excellent, including the visit you seem to strangely object to so much.

If the medical evidence is dodgy then MacKaskill's coat really is on a shoogly peg. We already know that the evidence used to convict Megrahi was questionable.

The medical evidence is crucial to MacAskill's whole argument. I'll reserve judgement till I see it as this story could be simply some more Maddoxbollox used to give the frothing unionists a crumb of comfort. Hopefully the 'doubt' will be dealt with swiftly, Megrahi hurries up and dies and you can go back to being your miserable little self.
135

gus1940,

Edinburgh 26/08/2009 07:32:12
Is there no end to the pettiness of the pygmies who constitute our pathetice biased hypocritical quisling opposition?
136

Grahamski,

Falkirk 26/08/2009 07:32:27
134
Me, miserable? No' me, gov!
137

Pomodora,

Gravesend 26/08/2009 07:37:09
To question whether it be one or ten medical opinions provided Mr MacAskill information on which he based his decision is irrelevant, he made a judgement decision which he has the courage to stand by. To the other question, was the examining physician expressed by the Libyan government?. Unless liberalization of ethnic practice has taken place since the four years I spent in that country, a Muslim would succumb only to being examined by a person of the same creed.
138

Observer,,

Glasgow 26/08/2009 07:37:25
125 Erm Macaskill never said that the Polis couldn't handle the security arrangements. He made the decision on what the security arrangements were going to be Grahamski. He explained that. The Polis told him what housing Megrahi in Scotland would mean - Hospices are full of dying people, why should they have to spend the last days of their lives surrounded by armed Polis.

BTW check out Jim Mitchell's letter in the Herald too, the tide is definitely turning.
139

Phil C,

26/08/2009 07:38:32
#133 Plod no 1 might not have been asked, but plod no 2? Bit like doc no 1 says 5 months, doc no2 says 3. Stop your bleating laddie.

Megrahi's thankfully away, move on.
140

Jings MacCrivvens,

26/08/2009 07:40:12
This story sounds very like another Liebore-inspired attempt by Maddox to get at MacAskill for making a decision which most Scots support and which show us to be a compassionate, civilised country.

Now that the Scottish Government has sought permission from the UK government to publish "all" of the relevant papers surrounding Megrahi's release, it is only a matter of time before the evasive Brown is forced to comment.
Would it surprise anyone if Brown does not give permssion for the papers to be published?
141

Observer,,

Glasgow 26/08/2009 07:44:07
Brian Wilson is also in the Herald sticking the boot in to Brown Grahamski. Oh dear, the phrase all over the place springs to mind. Anyway, off to work Adios.
142

Grahamski,

Falkirk 26/08/2009 07:44:09
138

ha ha ha ha good one, Observer.

Next you'll be claiming that he had fingers crossed when he said it so it doesn't count!

Mr MacAskill better get on to that higher power because he's going to need more than pedantry and sophistry to bluff his way out of this one.

We'll see how keen the polis are to defend Mr MacAskill when they come under scrutiny today.....
143

Grahamski,

Falkirk 26/08/2009 07:45:26
141
All over the place? Hardly.
144

Phil C,

26/08/2009 07:46:21
#136

Oh come on Graham, you're the most miserable wee red flag waving troll on here. Not as smart as your run-down-Scotland stablemates, but if there was a prize for being a dog with a bone, you'd win it.
145

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

26/08/2009 07:46:46
125 Grahamski

Al Megrahi visit:
"Prior to ratification of the Prisoner Transfer Agreement, it was scrutinised by the Westminster Joint Committee on Human Rights, to which Jack Straw, UK Secretary of State for Justice, gave a commitment that in cases where applications were not submitted personally by the prisoner, the prisoner must be given the opportunity to make representations.
"Mr Al Megrahi had the opportunity to make representations, and he chose to do so in person.
"Therefore I was duty bound to receive his representations. I accordingly met him.”

This seems reasonable to me.

Medical Evidence:
"It is the opinion of his Scottish Prison Service doctors who have dealt with him prior to, during and following the diagnosis of prostate cancer, and having seen him during each of these stages, that his clinical condition has declined significantly.
"Assessment by a range of specialists has reached the firm consensus that his disease is, after several different trials of treatment, "hormone resistant" - that is resistant to any treatment options of known effectiveness.
"Consensus on prognosis therefore has moved to the lower end of expectations.
"Mr Al Megrahi was examined by Scottish Prison Service doctors on 3 August.
"A report dated 10 August from the director of health and care for the Scottish Prison Service indicates that a three-month prognosis is now a reasonable estimate. The advice they have provided is based not only on their own physical examination but draws on the opinion of other specialists and consultants who have been involved in his care and treatment. He may die sooner - he may live longer.”

This seems reasonable to me.

Stratchclyde Police :
“The force said that there was “absolutely no difference between the position of Strathclyde Police and the information communicated by the Justice Secretary to Parliament. We informed government that the policing operation required for compassionate release of Mr al-Megrahi in Sco
146

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

26/08/2009 07:47:25
Stratchclyde Police :
“The force said that there was “absolutely no difference between the position of Strathclyde Police and the information communicated by the Justice Secretary to Parliament. We informed government that the policing operation required for compassionate release of Mr al-Megrahi in Scotland, and the security implications, would have been highly substantial.”

This seems reasonable to me.
147

Linda,

Edinburgh 26/08/2009 07:49:21
Having lost the argument on the grounds of principle and as a matter of Scots Law the opposition pygmies are raising all sorts of minor red herrings in last ditch attempts to keep this story running.

Two thirds of Lawyers surveyed agreed with MacAskill's decision and I doubt if political lawyers like Paul McBride or Mike Dailly supported the Justice Secretary.

Despite politicising the issue the opposition is now completely split with many Lib Dems (other than their pathetic leadership and Rumbles... give me strength) Lord Fraser former Tory Lord Advocate backs MacAskill as do senior Labour figures such as McLeish, Dalyell and Chisholm who are intellectually far more advanced than Gray, McConnell or Baker.
148

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 26/08/2009 07:49:29
For the record, can Dr Simpson tell us how accurate he has been in predicting the lifespan of patients with terminal prostrate cancer ?
149

Grahamski,

Falkirk 26/08/2009 07:51:16
145/146

"This seems reasonable to me."

Of course it does, dear. You and the 22% of Scots who consider letting a convicted mass murderer swan off to live the rest of his life in luxury are very reasonable. It's a national trait, apparently - we are known for our reason in Scotland, it defines us.....
150

Gdgy,

26/08/2009 07:52:10
Forget Brown not commenting, what about McAskill making HIS decision on dodgy and made-up evidence and ignoring ALL other options....

the SNP in action....
I see the SNPites have started with their anti-scottish, quisling jibes....a good sign that they have lost the argument -anyone who disagress with the SNP view MUST be a traitor to Scotland....
151

Jings MacCrivvens,

26/08/2009 07:52:48
Fellow posters should not rise to the bait being thrown by Erica Joyceski at the behest of Liebore Party HQ which is neither compassionate nor civilised. As usual Joyceski is being about as truthful as the average Liebore MP whilst filling in the expenses-claim form.
152

The Glasgow Ranger,

Edinburgh. 26/08/2009 07:54:36
These people who post messages during the early hours of the morning - insomniacs or bored warehouse operatives with Internet access?
153

Linda,

Edinburgh 26/08/2009 07:55:29
And who is the Strathclyde Police spokesperson?

AS a Lawyer for 20 years MacAskill strikes me as someone who is meticulous and would not in his role of Justice Secretary would state anything as a fact without being certain of advice given.



154

suileandubh,

26/08/2009 07:55:36
122
JRM
Yep you're right. It's humans the world over.
I'm a Scot (and Nationalist all my life) who camne to Australia. I have spent a good deal of time working with and becoming close friends with a few Australian Aboriginal people. as the world knows they get a pretty bad deal in their own country but my point is that once you get in there you realise they are not one great homogenous bland mass of people. They fight amongst themselves for beliefs and policies. some serious stuff too.
with 10 years of the Scottish Parliament under our belt, it's natural to have squabbling between the Scots parties and soforth.
Sadly, the media presents all of the al-Megrahi stuff as ALL the British/Scottish political parties EXCEPT SNP, being angered by the release. so the world gets a fairly biased report. if you listen to the media here reporting it you really would get the idea NO-ONE in the whole of the UK suppoted Kenny MacAsklill!
So much political reporting needs to be read between the lines. Or in context. Especially from this newspaper.
155

Observer,,

Glasgow 26/08/2009 07:57:34
149 Your losing the plot now dear. He's not swanning off to live the rest of his life in luxury, he is dying. Whether that be in three months time, two months time, six months time or like Teddy Kennedy today (RIP). Richard Simpson knows fine well there is no absolute prognisis for how much time a terminal case has, all you can say is that they are at the end stage, and Megrahi is.

And as for the Polis story - that's mince. No one has ever suggested that they couldn't handle security arrangements, but given what the security arrangements were and the cost to the public purse that was ruled out.

And the opposition to the release of Megrahi is crumbling, and it will crumble more as further facts emerge.

Anyway have to be off.
156

TWC,

exLabour 26/08/2009 07:57:51
148 Auld Twa

Yes the same in accuracies apply to a statement that he won't die in 3 months.

I like the idea of a free vote on this, my personal opinion has been all over the place on this but on balance I think the guy got it right.
I was proud of Mr Chisolm and those who kept this non political.

On the legal question 2/3 of the Lawyers questioned supported the decision and I believe that the majority of Scots suppport it.
157

Grahamski,

Falkirk 26/08/2009 07:59:26
154
The most recent opinion poll (published yesterday) suggested only 15% of the UK supported Mr MacAskill's increasingly flakey-looking decision. In Scotland that rises to 22% which maybe takes into account our defining characteristic of compassion - although Londoners seem to have outdone us in the compassion stakes by recording 25% support for Mr MacAskill - who'd a Adam and Eve'd it, eh?
158

Ben Thehoose,

26/08/2009 07:59:36
Remember Ernest Saunders and his 'Alzheimers'? This sounds like another politically 'convenient' illness.
159

mr broon,

Edinburgh 26/08/2009 08:00:42
The Scottish government will simply hide behind NHS doctor/patient confidentiality, even that of a convicted mass murderer.

However, it appears that Labour MSP Richard Simpson, a member of the medical profession, already knows only too well the identity of the consultant who advised MacAskill on al-Megrahi's condition?

Is it possible for a member of the medical profession to accurately predict to the final day and hour, the remaining time available to a terminally ill patient?
160

Andrew Morton,

Berkshire 26/08/2009 08:01:08
Having some experience of cancer (2 family members have died from different types of cancer), I can assure you all that NO expert will give a definitive life expectancy in case they are wrong and, inevitabley, get sued i.e. you said he had 6 months to live, he only lived 4, I will sue you etc.

C'mon, he has prostate cancer, it's past the treatment/cure stage, he will die soon and prostate cancer is voracious and deadly after a certain length of time.

Think Patrick Swayze. He's getting the best treatment money can buy and all it's going to do is buy him a little more time, it won't save his life.
161

suileandubh,

26/08/2009 08:01:23
153
Linda
Much of teh reoprting has presented Kenny MacAskill as being a (loopy) terrorist Scottish bufoon who because he is apparently the son of a minister was able to make the kind of statement he did.
As far as I know from friends and family who know him, he's not a religious man ( I make no suggestions ) at all, is supremely intelligent and as you point out a lawyer of 20 years standing.
Amazing isn't it?
162

suileandubh,

26/08/2009 08:03:40
152
The Glasgow Ranger
not forgetting international time zones. while you sleep we work (or post on forums)
163

Grahamski,

Falkirk 26/08/2009 08:03:42
155
"No one has ever suggested that they couldn't handle security arrangements, but given.. the cost to the public purse that was ruled out."

No one apart from Mr MacAskill, from The Times:

"The Scottish government said that Mr MacAskill had made clear in his statement that police resources was not a factor in his decision..."
164

suileandubh,

26/08/2009 08:05:16
157
Grahamski
Who pays too much attention to polls?????
165

letmein,

Paisley 26/08/2009 08:07:17
Why cant Maddox leave this alone. A one man crusade to bring down the SNP, what an idiot.
166

suileandubh,

26/08/2009 08:07:27
152
The Glasgow Ranger
but fifi le bonbon posts at any hour. quite prolific really.
167

Grahamski,

Falkirk 26/08/2009 08:08:31
164

"Who pays too much attention to polls?????"

Well, Mr MacAskill for one - he tried to claim that the polis advidsed him that keeping Mr Al Megrahi in Scotland wasn't an option.

Not quite true, like a lot of Mr MacAskill's claims.....
168

Graeme,

Guangzhou 26/08/2009 08:08:42
What a bunch of naive amateurs the SNP are. What with the sickening reception the terrorist received on his release (SNP bleating that they trusted the promises of a rogue state) to due diligence not being carried out on the crucial medical angle. Laughing stock. What else will be found behind this? The Westminster Government setting them up? You just couldn’t make it up!
169

paulr,

edinburgh 26/08/2009 08:09:40
#5, #14, #21
Are we talking about Gordon Brown again then.
170

David MacVicar,

web 26/08/2009 08:10:10
Another gutter press article proving once again that Maddox is thee most odious North Brit Journo in Scotland.

Some brits just don't care whose lives they damage. Is this doctor to be another David Kelly? Keep the doctor anonymous.
171

TWC,

exLabour 26/08/2009 08:12:11
I notice also that the Media are still showing very dated photos of Magrahi which show the healthy version as opposed to the one we saw laving Greenock.

All the documents will show what was used to make the decision,I once asked a Dr for a prognosis on a cancer patient and he said he couldn't do so. The patient died in within 6 days.
BTW are we no short of Polis?

I don't think MacAskill will survive this in the long term even thoough I think he was right.
172

john z,

edinburgh 26/08/2009 08:12:52
OK, let's beclear, the above article is worthy of something like the sun.

It is a made up story. MacAskill has already provided the medical evidence to the USA.

But this is not the point, the fact is Gordon Brown is stil feart to speak as to whether he thought the decision was a good or bad thing.

Who in the London controlled border control agency, allowed the jet to enter UK airspace, and who in the London controlled border control agency allowed Megrahi to leave the UK. If Labour object to his release, they could easily, easily have stopped him leaving. They didn't
173

,

26/08/2009 08:13:24
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174

TWC,

exLabour 26/08/2009 08:15:20
BTW if he does go I wish it were foe other reasons than this and I hope more SCOTTISH Labour people will take a support stance.

C'mon Wendy and her team I don't believe you don't support the Justice secretary's position.
175

Linda,

Edinburgh 26/08/2009 08:18:00
My father died of cancer. He was dying for years but when asked no Doctor or Consultant gave an exact date of death only within a wide band of life expectancy.

It is only a professional opinion and is disgraceful that some opposition politicians want to publicly "out" the Doctor who made the diagnosis.
176

Grahamski,

26/08/2009 08:19:37
173
Spagan says:
"I'm sure Kenny is correct - again - that people would rather 48 bobbies on the beat "

Hmm not quite the case, Spagan.

"The Scottish government said that Mr MacAskill had made clear in his statement that police resources was not a factor in his decision..."

Poor wee Kenny seems to be swinging in the wind, time for a call to that higher power.....

177

Andrew Morton,

Berkshire 26/08/2009 08:21:32
I have seen no pictures of MacAskill shaking the hand of Gaddafi.

I have seen lots of pictures of Broon and Blair shaking the hand of Gaddafi.

The price of oil and gas? The repartiation of a dead man walking. How very American.
178

,

26/08/2009 08:23:57
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179

steve52,

Kinfauns 26/08/2009 08:24:08
If any further proof were required to show that Labour are using this matter only for political games this is it. The exact same can be said about Maddox and this paper which should change its name to the Scottish Sun.

Dr. Simpson is not qualified to make the comments that are atributed to him. He is a GP and nothing more. He has NO expertise in prostrate cancer, he is not a radiologist nor an oncologist. Yet Labour put him up front to attack not only fellow Doctors but the Government as well. Of course it may be that he has shares in a company that is connected with cancer as previously exposed.

An attack has been made on the Doctor who made recomendations. It is claimed that this Doctor was not qualified.....what about Simpson?

When dealing with the medical matters relating to any prisoner it is the prison Doctor and those others employed by the Prison Service who have the last word on all things medical. Indeed it is a fact that that prison Doctors can only prescribe medication that has been approved by the Prison Service staff.

Yesterday on Radio Scotland the Labour spokewoman ( I forget her name) stated that if Gordon Brown made any comment the SNP and Mr Salmond in particular would jump on this and say he was sticking his nose into matters that did not concern him. Yet Mr Salmond stated on Newsnight that Mr Brown was not required to make any comment as the matter was devolved. Yet further proof that Labour are using these victims that they shed crocodile tears for to meet their own political agenda. Disgusting behaviour.

I stated on these pages a week ago that Megrahi would still be alive this time next year and offered to take bets........Maddox is slow is he not or is this his continuous drip drip of attacking the Scottish Government and the Scottish People.
180

TWC,

exLabour 26/08/2009 08:24:49
176 Grahamski,

Actually he said it was not on Finance / cost grounds.
Anyway this is a dead horse you are flogging and once again it is making Labour look like politicking fools on what is purely a Legal matter.

This should not be left to one person in future that's the lesson because we are all defined by our background and religeon etc
181

suileandubh,

26/08/2009 08:25:59
168
Graeme
Patience. Time will show that Scotland and the SNP will have earned respect, and raised their standing and profile on the world stage. Neither the US nor the UK (Westminster) governments have earned respect.
Scotland and SNP will be bruised and battered from this but will emerge a stronger and even more determined country, in spite of all the critics and cynics.
182

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

26/08/2009 08:27:25
"55 James at Perth,26/08/2009 01:38:54

Many of you think the media are anti-SNP. You need to get past that. The more credible an administration becomes the more venom it attracts."

It's the reality for any government no matter their level of competence. If it had been a Labour justice minister who had freed Megrahi the majority of SNP activists would have been on here attacking him/her as well.

Oppositons are there to attack - it's the adversarial tribal nature of our political system.

183

suileandubh,

26/08/2009 08:28:41
179
steve52
what a load of ranting and raving. what were you actually trying to say?
184

Jacqueline Hyde ,

On the shelf 26/08/2009 08:29:04
#11 Fifi, and others

The wording of the legal procedures and guidelines is irrelevant - the prognisis of al-Megrahi's three month life expectancy is MacAskill's stated reason for the repatriation.

#170, David
I agree to an extent but the doctor was in a position to insist on having his opinion endorsed by any number of other doctors. If his opinion, in this case, proves to have substantially perverted the course of justice, he has far more to worry about than a few snide articles in the press.

Generally, the al-Megrahi story has not had the global repurcussions that the British media have suggested. Even in the US, it has been surprisingly muted and, indeed, many US relatives have been reported as supporting MacAskill's decision.



185

Andrew Morton,

Berkshire 26/08/2009 08:30:41
Whether it is or not the correct decision made by MacAskill (time will tell), what I am encouraged by is Scotland flexing her legal powers on the international stage and not bending over for America (a country the Scots largely invented) as is the will of Westminster in the main.

Good on you Scotland, well done MacAskill for having a backbone. Even Broon is hiding behind your broad shoulders.
186

suileandubh,

26/08/2009 08:31:39
182
The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),
aye but this paper is anti-SNP. not that anyone in the SNP would care. I can't see Alex Salmond, Nicola and Kenny rushing to open the Scotsman in the morning to see what the Scotsman has to say. The media in all countries always has a love-hate relationship with the politics
187

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

26/08/2009 08:31:45
"179 steve52,Kinfauns 26/08/2009 08:24:08
If any further proof were required to show that Labour are using this matter only for political games this is it. The exact same can be said about Maddox and this paper which should change its name to the Scottish Sun."

It's ironic that teher are Nats here complaining about the opposition using this issue for political gain - they obviously have very short memories - or have they forgotten that they acted in a similar manner in opposition?

Get over it - if MacAskill has done the right thing then defend that - don't attack the messeneger.
188

kenone,

London 26/08/2009 08:32:43
Where is Labour Murphy?
He is usually over enthusiastic at sticking his greasy nose into devolved matters.
189

Britain united,

26/08/2009 08:34:54
So when this guy is still alive in 12 months time,wonder how MacAskill will get out of that one!
190

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

26/08/2009 08:37:41
#186 Hmm - that must make every paper in the country anti-SNP.

Newspapers on the whole report what is there - the same story appeared in The Courier and The Press & Journal this morning - does that make them anti-SNP too?

Instead of attacking the papers it would be better to tackle the issues behind the story.
191

TWC,

exLabour 26/08/2009 08:39:47
183 suileandubh,

I understand what he is saying and I can confirm that Margaret Curran did accuse Salmond of trying to attack Brown when in fact Salmond suppoorted Browns non involvement in the Compassion decision.

On the question of Press coverage there is a reversal North versus south especially the Scotsman and especially Maddoox

They are anti the opposition in the South ie the Tories and anti Nat in the North.
The Libdems are generally undermined or ignored even when they make a good point.

Nobody can be totally unbiased but it has gone to far especially in this newspaper and with this reporter
192

Andrew Morton,

Berkshire 26/08/2009 08:39:51
190

The P&J and Courier are woned by the same press corporation as the Hootsmon.
193

kenone,

London 26/08/2009 08:41:24
It is interesting to note at the debate in Parliament no Unionist suggested he remain in prison. They may not have wished him to returned to Libya (bar one sensible Labour MSP) but remain here as part of a media circus. And then what, if he survived more than three months were the authorities to cart him back to jail? And then if his health was to fail was he to be released again?
194

Soloman,

Stirling 26/08/2009 08:44:27
This disgraceful band of doubters will be demanding, that a representative from each of Scotlands political parties, be taken to Libaya to verify Al Magrahis eventual death.
No doubt Labour will send their Scottish Doctor!

X Vote SNP X

Independence from Westminster
195

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

26/08/2009 08:44:35
192 Andrew Morton,

I suspect that you may be confusing DC Thompson with the current owners of the Hootsmon, Johnstone Press.
196

Tynietiger,

26/08/2009 08:45:15
Is this the same Dr Richard Simpson who as Justice Secretary was voted out of Parliament after calling striking Fireman, who were complaining about the destruction of overnight cover, as B**tards.
197

Andrew Morton,

Berkshire 26/08/2009 08:46:50
195 Dùn Èideann Bully Wee

Oh? I thought Thompson was a sister company of Johntone? Happy to say I'm wrong if it's not the case. The P&J is Johnstone owned though, isn't it?
198

Britain united,

26/08/2009 08:47:28
193. This guy murdered 270 people,why can't morons like you understand this,he should of been kept in the hospital wing.
199

ecosseman,

FACTS NOT PROPAGANDA! 26/08/2009 08:49:41
" IN DOUBT "

WHAT A HEADLINE!

PLEASE REPORT FACTS AND NOT PROPAGANDA!

LETS BUY OUT THE SCOTSMAN!
BOUGHT FOR £160M FOR SALE AT £40M

THEY SURE KNOW A THING OR TWO ABOUT THEIR BUSINESS(NOT)
BUT THEY WANT US TO BELIEVE THEIR PROPAGANDA.

WILL THE BBC STILL SAY "STARTING WITH THE SCOTSMAN"
ME NO THINK SO.

COME ON LURCH,SPEAK UP!

ROLL ON THE ELECTION!
200

,

26/08/2009 08:50:05
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201

Andrew Morton,

Berkshire 26/08/2009 08:50:11
198

Where's the concrete proof that he did? Why can't morons like you understand Scotland has it's own legal system and the precedent has already been set a loooong time ago?

BTW, I take it you are happy to continue to fund his treatment on the NHS and the 24 hour security etc?
202

Mèths,

26/08/2009 08:50:23
Dr Simpson, Labour MSP said ......

Nuff said.
203

Mèths,

26/08/2009 08:51:09
Britain Untied

Pash - as usual.
204

,

26/08/2009 08:51:24
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205

The Deil,

26/08/2009 08:52:30
#198
And when will Britnatzis like you learn to grow up?
206

,

26/08/2009 08:52:44
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207

steve52,

Kinfauns 26/08/2009 08:52:47
#187 the fedalist. You are suggesting in your post that I am a a supporter of the SNP, that is what you are implying. Well for your information I wrote to Mr Purvis, Liberal Democrats yesterday informing him that I would no longer be voting for his party and would not be donating any money at either local or national level.

My view is that the decison to release this Man was correct. That using this decision and the victims and their families for political games is disgusting and anyone who does so should be ashamed of them selves.

Please take time to examine the facts ( something that thus far has escaped you it would seem) and not the drivel put in this paper or that spouted by political parties. The only party with nothing to gain out of this matter were the SNP . The only losers from these political games are the people of Scotland.
208

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

26/08/2009 08:52:59
197 Andrew Morton,

The P&J is owned by DC Thompson, of Sunday Post, Beano and Peoples Friend fame, as is the Courier.
209

Colkitto,

River Clyde 26/08/2009 08:54:59
Just how petty has this become ? Petty political point scoring by the unionist parties and this newspaper on something so serious as this is an insult to the victims familes of Pan Am 103.
Megrahi is going to die !
Fact is there isn't a groundswell of public opinion against the SNP government or MacAskill. Gone are the days when the unionist parties like Labour can influence the electorate with lies and innuendo.
The people have now seen Labour for what they are, and it's time they had a reality check.
210

kenone,

London 26/08/2009 08:55:35
#198

Perhaps with an outburst like that Carstairs Hospital wing may be appropriate for you!
211

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

26/08/2009 08:56:01
"192 Andrew Morton,Berkshire 26/08/2009 08:39:51
190

The P&J and Courier are woned by the same press corporation as the Hootsmon."

P & J is owned by Aberdeen Journals Ltd which was bought by DC Thomson media group, after being sold by the Daily Mail and General Trust in 2006.

DC Thomson also owns The Courier.
212

Mèths,

26/08/2009 08:57:53
Let's see if I've got this right.

Dr Simpson, labour MSP, specialising in Psychiatry, thinks Megrahi may live longer.
213

voltaire's janny,

26/08/2009 08:57:58
198 Why don't morons like you refrain from putting their schemie slang in writing?

It's "should have" not "should of",....cretin.
214

suileandubh,

26/08/2009 08:58:15
190
The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),
as a journo student I know that papers (broadsheet I wouldn't give tabloids much creedence) should report hard news stories by FACT and most newspapers around the world have a degree of bias but they also tend to push their own issues when it suits. This was a huge news item throughout the UK but it hasn't necessarily been reported well. There was well written (opinion)article (Cochrane)in the Telegraph but as it read it implied that political parties throughout the UK were angry with the Scottish Government's decsion. Sadly this is also the way overseas papers have presented the story. You can't deny that papers present political bias. How did those northern papers preport the FACTS? with or without bias. will have to read them again and I didn't read them all. But Scotland consists of more than the highlands. THe Herald was more objective than the Scotsman until al-Megrahi arrived home and we saw the sad sight of Saltires at Tripoli airport.
Sometimes teh media have a lot to answer for.
215

Rambo The Jambo,

Edinburgh 26/08/2009 08:59:09

# 64 An American of Scottish descent

And what is American compassion?

- Execution
- 100 years+ life without parole
- three strikes and you're out; commit three crimes and you get life
- humiliation and torture of prisoners in Guantanamo

is this justice US style? If so you can keep it.
216

Mèths,

26/08/2009 09:02:44
Would the doctor be Dr Karol Sikora?
217

Andrew Morton,

Berkshire 26/08/2009 09:03:35
Thanks you all for keeping me right re: who owns what.

Ignorance is sometimes not bliss!
218

Mèths,

26/08/2009 09:03:43
Dr Sikora visited Megrahi in prison, and called for an "urgent" decision before his condition worsens further.

May be him - who knows?
219

Nevsky;,

St Petersburg 26/08/2009 09:04:14
211 Fed*

You must have missed the news..pro-SNP businessmen are in talks to try and buy the Hootsman!

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/media/article6806358.ece
220

suileandubh,

26/08/2009 09:05:56
191
TWC,exLabour
Thank you and that's fine. My point was that the post sounded like ravings. It didn't read well. I have posted poor comments when staying up far too late on this forum.
The media will always draw criticism on big news days but this paper in particular has shown considerable bias. it keeps editors and journos on their toes but you would imagine that a major story such as this would be covered by a highly respected and experienced senior staff journo. If it had it would have been presented objectively. If it was,(such a journo) then let's hope changing hands changes other things too.
221

Rob Royston,

26/08/2009 09:05:56
61 James at Perth,
"The breaking news that the US is to impose mandatory death sentences on all suicide bombers to give a clear signal that terrorism will not be tolerated."

LOL That's Chicken Chow Mein in the soup then.

222

albahomeland,

26/08/2009 09:07:05
198 "should have" not "should of".

Sloppy!
223

steve52,

Kinfauns 26/08/2009 09:07:59
I put a post on here which showed up then vanished????

My wife is a world renowned radiotherapist and oncologist wo also has an award from the Queen for her work in cancer . Her speciallity is prostrate cancer.

It would seem the powers that be do not wish to have facts not just opinions.

No Consultant can state how long a person with cancer, or any other serious illness, has to live. They can however predict and expected life span. eg. 3, 6 8 months.

The fact that Megrahi has not had radiotherapy or chemotherapy would suggest he has a very short time to live. He would/should have been offered these treatments but like many patients in his position might have refused owing to the side effects. Of course had he taken these treatments then he may weel not have been fit enough to return home.

I wont go on but will say this much...Medical records are confidential. Doctors have an ethical code by which they must stand. If the mans medical records are made public as Labour want then who will pay the court costs and the compensation should the man decide to sue?

Dr Simpson is NOT qualified to make comment of such medical matters as he is only a GP.
224

Mèths,

26/08/2009 09:08:10
If he's the doc - he got a double first at Cambridge.

If he's the doc - he's an oncology specialist.

If he's the doc - I'd probably listen to him before Dr Simpson (Labour MSP specialist in Psychiatry and addictions)

If he's not the doc ..... ignore above.
225

suileandubh,

26/08/2009 09:08:46
220
Ollie Bain
well said. unfortunately both polics and the media are tough businesses and they do tend to optimise all opportunities to advance themselves.
226

Mèths,

26/08/2009 09:10:30
Britain Untied

"He should of been kept in the hospital wing."

Should of is AMERICAN usage. Hmm ....
227

suileandubh,

26/08/2009 09:10:53
220 Ollie Bain
I didn't mean to send that post yet!
I was going to add that I do really feel that in this case MacAskill (and Salmond et al) did not make and support this decision for any gain. It was done for the reasons stated by MacAskill.
228

albahomeland,

26/08/2009 09:11:43
The opposition parties will come off worse in this petty spat. Annabel Goldie in particular appears to have lost her marbles.

Did anyone see Lord Freser p155ed on Newsnight last night?
229

Mèths,

26/08/2009 09:12:26
It's also a disgusting article debating whether a guy will live for more than, or fewer than 3 months.
230

Soosider,

Glasgow 26/08/2009 09:15:10
Desperate desperate stuff from the opposition, Dr Simpson should have waited until he had seen the report MacAskill based his decision on, the one from the Chief Medical Officer of the Scottish Prison Service. Who recommended discharge as dis the governor as did the Parole Board.
It is right and proper that MacAskill is questioned on his decision, on the process and points of clarification and sought, but it does appear as if the Opposition are so intent in attacking the Government that they do not seem to realise the damage they do not just to the country but to themselves aswell
231

The Strategist,

26/08/2009 09:16:13
Zzzzzzz....... bored with this now so lets talk about something that will detrimentlty affect Scotland namely, the decision by the National Grid to charge more the further away the generator is..... This means that all the tidal, wave and offshore wind projects off Scotland's coast will now be at a disadvantage in terms of their cost per unit generated.

Seems to me that unless the twirps that run the grid can be made to dump their Thatcherite economic attitude then renewables are going to find it even more difficult to find investment.

232

Johnnee English,

26/08/2009 09:17:48
I wonder if Kenny MacAskill would consult a Libyan doctor if he himself would suffer from a serious condition. I somehow doubt he would.
This whole sorry affair just proves that, no matter how serious the crime committed, Scottish politicians will find a way of showing compassion to the criminal while blatantly ignoring the victims.
Shame on Kenny MacAskill and shame on this Scottish government.
233

Andrew Morton,

Berkshire 26/08/2009 09:18:56
234

Shame on you.
234

Mèths,

26/08/2009 09:20:21
Johnnee English

That was a load of nonsense. Your first 2 sentences are simply the ramblings of a deranged anti-SNP moniker-changer.

Idiocy.
235

A. Mcleod,

Highland 26/08/2009 09:20:50
Has anyone thought of asking SCCRC for their opinion of Megrahi's appeal being abandoned in such a fashion.?

The whole world now knows what we fellow Scots fighting for truth and justice in our own country are up against.- A Corrupt Scottish Government and Corrupt Justice system.
236

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 09:22:26
@81 "Mr McAskill was wrong to let this man go free, and he should have recognised that the feelings of the large majority of victims' families outweigh the desire to be nice to the apparently dying."

Except that Kenny McAskill is not responsible for the feelings of the American families, who live in a culture very different from ours. He is the Justice Minister of SCOTLAND, and the Scottish families mostly do not share America's vengeful Old Testament model of justice. So if your criterion is the feelings of the bereaved families, McAskill made the right decision in terms of the people within his jurisdiction.
237

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 09:23:42
@228 "Should of is AMERICAN usage."

To be fair, it's also idiot usage.
238

suileandubh,

26/08/2009 09:24:03
198
Britain united
although I don't agree with your comments I don't like other people correcting your grammar. THey are showing arrogance and therefore reduce themselves considerably.I don't care if people use incorrect grammar on these posts etc (and I'm a teacher as well as student journalist) as long as they contribute useful comment to the debate.
239

Owlman,

26/08/2009 09:26:18
RE #238 Rev. S. Campbell,Bath 26/08/2009 09:22:26

You are a despicable smug racist.
240

suileandubh,

26/08/2009 09:26:23
167
Grahamski,
re-read my post.
I wrote, "Who pays too much attention to POLLS." Not POLIS.
241

Jacqueline Hyde ,

On the shelf 26/08/2009 09:27:57
#217
Ignorance may not be bliss . . . . but it often appears to be an essential qualification for posting comments in this blatt!

However, lumping DC Thomson in with Johnston Press is an offence that would have Desperate Dan spinning in his grave, if he was alive today!
242

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 09:28:59
@157 "The most recent opinion poll (published yesterday) suggested only 15% of the UK supported Mr MacAskill's increasingly flakey-looking decision. In Scotland that rises to 22%"

Published in your house, was it? The Scotsman's poll shows an almost exact 50/50 split.
243

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 26/08/2009 09:29:11
Kenny, you have done well so far. You knew that they would come gunning for you. Stick to what you have said and reveal no more.
244

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 09:29:47
@241 "You are a despicable smug racist."

Where on Earth are you getting racism from, halfwit?
245

suileandubh,

26/08/2009 09:30:10
239
Rev. S. Campbell,
a rude and ignorant comment, you made there.
Well educated Americans also know that it is . . .should have . . .
Does it matter, really matter if someone misuses the ENGLISH language? Big deal. It's what the person has to say that counts not whether they can prove their knowledge of English grammar.
246

BOBO UMBONGONDO,

26/08/2009 09:34:00
Nuff said.

Karol Sikora is Medical Director of CancerPartnersUK which is creating the largest independent cancer network in the UK. He was Professor and Chair of the Department of Cancer Medicine at Imperial College and is still honorary Consultant Oncologist at Hammersmith Hospital, London. He chairs the scientific advisory board of SourceBioscience PLC, Britain's leading cancer diagnostic company. He is Dean of Britain's first independent Medical School at the University of Buckingham and is a Fellow of Corpus Christi College, Cambridge.
247

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 09:34:45
@247 I respectfully disagree. Anyone incapable of grasping some of the fundamental basics of their own language is clearly a simple-minded idiot (except in special cases such as dyslexia), and their opinions should be weighted accordingly.
248

AJ Fife,

26/08/2009 09:35:40
More desperate stories from Maddox and the 'anti'-Scotsman newspaper!

249

It's me!,

26/08/2009 09:36:48
I wonder if the British Medical Association has noted that Dr Simpson can make a diagnosis of a cancer sufferer, without examination, that is not his and pronounce it not only in public but to the whole world via the media.
250

Luigiana,

Aberdeen 26/08/2009 09:38:01
If Gray, Scott and Goldie are really so appalled and embarrassed by McCaskil's decision to release al-Megrahi, then, after all their bluster and anger (in Scotland's name?), they surely have to get their act together a call for a vote of no confidence at Holyrood next week.

Failure to do so will be seen by the people of Scotland for what it is - an act of political opportunism followed by cowardice.

All talk and no action - sounds familiar!
251

Halloween,

Wales 26/08/2009 09:39:21
The real crime here is that this man was released. Compassion should work both ways - to the victims as well. But this has been discarded in favour of absurd PC nonsense and woolly thinking not just in Scotland but the whole of the UK. The SNP rentacrowd on here think its a triumph but believe this the image of Scotland has been tarnished everywhere else. I am a patriotic Welshman but I thought this kind of aggressive nationalism went out in the 20th century.
252

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 09:42:20
With regard to polls, incidentally: Politics Home have conducted a UK-wide survey of 1,200 people, and its results are interesting. The overall figures are distorted by the numbers of English Tory voters, but even then the SNP's decision is opposed by only 53%, with 35% in favour and the rest unsure.

Broken down by party, we find the Lib Dems supporting the vote by 52% to 35%.

Labour voters are split fairly evenly with 42% for and 47% against.

40% of Labour voters think Megrahi's conviction was suspect, with just 31% believing it was sound.

The Lib Dem voters are even more sceptical, with an almost 2:1 majority (49% to 25%) believing the conviction to be suspect.

When asked if they believed in compassionate release in principle, both Labour and Lib Dem voters voted "Yes". (47% to 42% Labour, 68% to 24% Lib Dem.)

From other published polls it seems reasonable to project than in all these circumstances, a Scotland-only poll would show higher figures in support of McAskill's decision.

The simple fact is that the opposition are, Tories excepted, out of touch with the feelings of their own voters.

http://page.politicshome.com/uk/public_disapprove_of_lockerbie_decision.html
253

Luigiana,

Aberdeen 26/08/2009 09:42:52
MacAskil made a courageous, potentially unpopular decision to release al-Megrahi.

Are Gray, Scott and Goldie now prepared to respond and make an equally courageous decision to call a potentially unpopular vote of confidence?

It is, after all, a matter of principle?

Don't hold your breath.
254

Ewan Randall,

26/08/2009 09:44:02
Putting things in perspective, how many of you who have backed up Kenny McAskill’s decision would have equally backed it up now if he had indeed decided to not release him on compassionate grounds?

Would you now be attacking him for not being compassionate enough in the decision he had made?

Has your decision been based on your political beliefs?

If you have a unionist bent and have attacked Kenny McAskill for his decision would you have come onto this forum and praised him if his decision had gone the other way?

As unionists are you only reacting to your political beliefs on this issue?

If you are American and have complained bitterly on this issue have you equally done so about you country allowing the terrorists involved with Cubana flight 455 living comfortably on your own soil?
255

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 09:44:32
@253 "The real crime here is that this man was released. Compassion should work both ways - to the victims as well."

The victims are dead, Einstein. They don't care either way. And if you're including the families as victims (which is fair enough), then see post 238. The families that Kenny McAskill is answerable to do not share your hate-filled agenda of vengeance, particularly against a man that many of them believe to be innocent of the crime he was imprisoned for.
256

John S,

26/08/2009 09:44:36
#234 - Scottish politicians will find a way of showing compassion to the criminal while blatantly ignoring the victims.

As part of the consideration of the application for prisoner transfer Mr MacAskill has met or spoken with those that submitted relevant representations, this included:
- UK families of victims (1 July)
- US families of victims (9 July)
- Families from Lockerbie (23 July)
- Mr Al-Megrahi (5 August)
257

Thistledhu,

26/08/2009 09:47:44
I believe the decision to release Meghrahi was the wrong move for the right reasons .
If Maghrahi lives just one day more than three months Scotland will be held in disdain.

The naivety of the SNP government in international affairs is astonishing Macaskill has not only released a murderer he has given the Westminster government a get out of Jail free card.
258

westernblot,

NY 26/08/2009 09:47:58
Isn't the answer really that since more Americans died than Scots it was ok in your minds.
259

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

26/08/2009 09:48:19
251 It's me!,

It should be noted that Dr Simpson, having had the benefit of a private school education at Trinity College , Glenalmond, (current fees circa £25,500 per annum), is probably more than capable of making such a diagnosis.

Indeed it is relatively surprising that he has not of yet at least, discovered a cure for all forms of cancer and also the common cold.
260

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 09:49:11
@260 No, the answer is really that we believe in compassion, not in locking up and/or torturing and executing the first random dark-skinned person we can get our hands on after a crime is committed.
261

Andrew Morton,

Berkshire 26/08/2009 09:51:24
260

Are you making the assumptiuon that American lives are more important than any other nationalities lives?

Lord help you if you are.
262

TWC,

exLabour 26/08/2009 09:54:04
259 Thistledhu

You may be held in disdain Black thistle but I won't.

Whether he lives 3 months or 6 months there will be lots of people you and I know who die before him.

Death doesn't work at our commmand.
The bottom line is he is dying and our parties used this situation for political ends.
263

albahomeland,

26/08/2009 09:55:05
253 Halloween

That argument falls flat on its face when you see non-SNP supporters agreeing with the decision. One of them even stood up in Holyrood and said so. Mind you, he will need to watch his back.
264

Prudence,

26/08/2009 09:55:17
Cancer like Scottish justice also runs its course. To accept that the condition be recognised in "cast iron" to determine its progression ,the speed of its progression and the nature of its progression is a bit King Canutelike. Fortunately the Higher Power or "Higher Poer" ( Scottish pronounciation ) cannot confine itself to man's attempts to control, understand or legislate on its behalf . Its impossible .Scottish law does try its best though.
265

BOBO UMBONGONDO,

26/08/2009 09:55:58
The proverbial may be about to hit over the pond, seemingly someone has started asking questions about a fellow we must not ask questions about.
266

westernblot,

NY USA 26/08/2009 09:56:08
I think the answer is 'Yes' Rev and you are amongst the worst. Your boy Kenny is, in our minds, a mass murderer - he killed the families twice.

And the fact that some nuts in your corner of the world did not like the verdict means nothing - he was convicted by a Scottish court.

Now you guys are left to hope he dies quickly enough to justify your disgusting behavior. He will live as long as Gaddafi wants and no longer.

Do you really think any member of Libyan intelligence does not have blood on his hands.
267

Thistledhu,

26/08/2009 09:56:29
westernblot,NY please do not get the impresion that this is a popular move in scotland it is not.


no right minded scot would shrug there shoudlers and say it was mainly americans that died.

this crime was commited in scotland this man should still be in prison untill a judge orders his release or he dies.
268

European Scot,

26/08/2009 09:56:32
Halloween

...... and just what little mask are you wearing then ?

Last night it was " ..... SNP and its scary looking leader ??

Someone from Wales commenting in this way seems most unusual.
It looks more like the comment of a Scottish Unionist.

Then there was that reference to the thirties. Ah yes of course, the standard old Nazi / Nats connection, so often used by ..... Scottish Unionists !

Today it's a reference to: "The SNP rentacrowd on here think its a triumph ...... "
and :-

"I am a patriotic Welshman but I thought this kind of aggressive nationalism went out in the 20th century."

What's this, trying to convey an image of UK wide disgust with MacAskill's decision, by throwing in a 'Welsh' contributor. to add to all those 'American.' versions ?

What's next, 'disgusted of Harrogate' ?
269

Curious Yellow,

Edinburgh 26/08/2009 09:57:09
The whole thing's a mess. MacAskill was damned if he did and damned if he didn't. Problem is, he's made a complete hash of the way he went about it.

Couldn't we just send the SAS over to Libya?
270

Graeme,

Guangzhou 26/08/2009 09:57:49
#250. The Scotsman reports it as it is, with a slant towards the Union of course. If this slant (as you would have it) moved towards the SNP you would not complain. In fact this would be encouraged and applauded, hypocrisy at is best. Also to cover most of the threads above that slate the other parties for political point scoring well, let’s look at the big picture shall we? The SNP released the man for one main reason. To score points against the ‘hated’ English and Americans. Classic chip on the shoulder syndrome. Also most of the ‘heavy posts’ above supporting this are also wholly racist in their content. Very sad.
271

morris,

edinburgh 26/08/2009 09:59:22
253 The alternative would have been put him under guard in a hospice under palliative care where he would have died as a martyr.
The decision Justice Minister MacAskill made has to be correct because the only other possibility is a catastrophe and Auntie Bella who once stood head and shoulders above the other Scottish puppets has rejoined the also rans.
Those who think creation of martyrdom is a smart move are also to be shown compassion because they are dead from the neck up.
272

albahomeland,

26/08/2009 10:00:22
259 thistle

A very flawed analysis if I ever saw one. The SNP have shown a great deal of savvy in this whole affair. Brown will come out of this weaker and the SNP Government stronger.

Incidently, you misunderstand the significance of the "three month" criterion.
273

westernblot,

263 26/08/2009 10:00:42
I don't know if you are serious. I doubt if he would be free if 189 Scots were killed.
274

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

26/08/2009 10:02:50
270 European Scot

We await this interest the view from the “man on the Hackney omnibus”.

Or perhaps we don’t.
275

albahomeland,

26/08/2009 10:04:03
268 western

"Your boy Kenny is, in our minds, a mass murderer".

If you are really an American and mean what you say, then heaven help you. I suspect you speak on behalf of a vanishingly small group of people.
276

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 10:04:04
@268 "Your boy Kenny is, in our minds, a mass murderer - he killed the families twice."

And that, my friend, is why people think your entire nation is populated by thick-witted retards who belong in a 1930s Texas lynch mob. It isn't, but unfortunately it's the empty vessels like you who make the most noise.

Releasing mass murderers? We're amateurs compared to you, as Lt. William Calley will tell you.
277

Andrew Morton,

Berkshire 26/08/2009 10:04:30
268 westernblot,NY USA

You most certainly do not represent "your minds" in America.

Realistically, given the sick and utterly inhuman acts you perform on actual or percieved terrorists, criminals, POW's and fellow Americans, Scotland is leagues ahead of you backward looking, reactionary and supercilious obese idiots.
278

John S,

26/08/2009 10:04:59
I bet you these people are glad that Megrahi is back in Libya.
British and other Western expatriates living in Libya were warned in April that they faced serious repercussions if the Lockerbie bomber died in his Scottish prison. 25 August 2009 - Times
279

brownlie,

26/08/2009 10:05:24
234 Johnee English

When I had a serious injury I was treated by two Iraqi doctors. What point are you trying to make?

280

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 10:06:03
@272 "The SNP released the man for one main reason. To score points against the ‘hated’ English and Americans."

You Unionist trolls need to make your minds up. On the one hand you tell us this decision was all wrong because it's totally against public opinion. The next minute you tell us it was done to court political popularity. Those two things entirely contradict each other. Get your story straight, eh?
281

Andrew Morton,

Berkshire 26/08/2009 10:07:28
I suppose Imperial thinking fatties like Westernblot have now a good excuse to invade, destroy and bomb the living hell out of Lybia, including all women and children, because it harbours a "known" terrorist who still poses a threat to America (never mind about the rest of the World).
282

westernblot,

NY USA 26/08/2009 10:07:32
Rev - you are without a brain or compassion. Since Calley killed innocents in VN 30 years ago lets release a mass murderer of (mostly) American students.
283

AJ Fife,

26/08/2009 10:08:20
Graeme#272 wrote "The SNP released the man for one main reason. To score points against the ‘hated’ English and Americans"

Do you really believe that?

If you do, you need help pronto!
284

Grahamski,

Falkirk 26/08/2009 10:08:44
225
"Dr Simpson is NOT qualified to make comment of such medical matters as he is only a GP."

From today's Telegraph:

However, Dr Simpson, who specialised in prostate disease research, said: “It is clear to me from the medical reports and the opinion of the specialists that Megrahi could live for many more months....Dr Simpson, a former member of the British Association of Urological Surgeons' prostate cancer working group"

Aye, you're right enough, he's just a GP.........
285

New Town Resident,

26/08/2009 10:08:58
This medical uncertainty merely confirms that it would have been more sensible in my view for compassionate release within Scotland.

I argued this option before mainly to avoid the triumphalism/upset that was inveitable on release to Libya. The return to Libya is the main aspect which has upset the vistims' relatives, rather than compassionate release per se.

However more facts have now emerged which makes me think it's all even more questionable. Happy to be corrected, but it seems;

1. The Megrahi family lived for many years in a large house in Glasgow paid for by the Libyan government.

2. The Megrahi children went to school in Glasgow

3. Megrahi's own application for compassionate release when cancer was first diagnosed was to this house in Glasgow, not to Libya

4. The Strathclyde police say they would have had no problem securing this Glasgow house.

So it seems to me now that it's not an issue at all regarding the merits of compassionate release.

Rather it seems there was a determination to return him to Libya in the face of all normal criteria, not withstanding the upset this would cause the victims.

In this apparent determination to return him to Libya it seems the nefarious policies of the UK goverment and the attitude of the SNP were surprisingly aligned.

I can't believe the SNP followed a steer from the UK government, but its unfortunate that the Americans will understandably think different.



286

westernblot,

NY USA 26/08/2009 10:10:12
284 Not in the least. I do not think Libya did anything wrong other than take advantage of a Nation of Fools.
287

Andrew Morton,

Berkshire 26/08/2009 10:10:21
Who was that Scottish knobber the American's released from Death Row (good god, they still have death row? How backward) and sent back to Scotland?

Didn't he kill innocent Americans?
288

PictiScot,

26/08/2009 10:11:43
We the people, demand a vote of no-confidence on this very damaging Government. It is the only way to salvage our former reputation for common sense and levelheadedness.

289

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 10:11:48
@285 "Since Calley killed innocents in VN 30 years ago lets release a mass murderer of (mostly) American students."

Merely pointing out, my simple-minded friend, that you're in no position to lecture us about releasing mass murderers. Calley admitted that he did it (whereas Megrahi is quite likely innocent), and got three years house arrest. And you gave the US sailors who shot down an Iranian passenger jet a f*cking MEDAL.
290

BOBO UMBONGONDO,

26/08/2009 10:12:33
As you were saying pramski......


Member for:
Mid Scotland and Fife

Party:
Scottish Labour

Date of Birth:
22 October 1942

Place of Birth:
Edinburgh, Scotland

Religious Affiliation:
Church of Scotland

Family Information:
Married

Trade Union/Professional Membership:
Unite
BMA
Education:
Perth Academy
Trinity College Glenalmond
University of Edinburgh

Career History:
1970 - 1999 General Practitioner
291

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 10:12:44
@291 "We the people, demand a vote of no-confidence on this very damaging Government."

"I, one person" is the phrase you're looking for there. The opposition don't seem to have the bottle to call for such a vote.
292

Andrew Morton,

Berkshire 26/08/2009 10:12:54
BTW, America should be congratulated for their Sterling work in turning Iraq into the wonderful liberal and democractic country it is now......

Iran better watch out (well, not really since Iran doesn't appear on any map of the USA or Cuba, they have no idea where it is).
293

TWC,

exLabour 26/08/2009 10:13:20
268 westernblot,

Scots Law convicted him and Scots Law released him.

What give you the right to speak for the families.

US citzens gave money to the IRA, they bought semtex from Libya and used it to blow up Brits.

That didn't stop our law from releasing them early from prison.


Similarly the USA decisions on the Vincennes and My Lai incidents.

The guy is dying.
294

Andrew Morton,

Berkshire 26/08/2009 10:14:10
291

Yer talking pash (did I write the right guys?)
295

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 10:14:22
@284 "I suppose Imperial thinking fatties like Westernblot have now a good excuse to invade, destroy and bomb the living hell out of Lybia,"

Don't be stupid, Andrew. When a bunch of Saudis and Egyptians blew up the World Trade Centre, America invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. Since this matter involves Scotland and Libya, the Americans will invade Iran and Belgium.
296

Thistledhu,

26/08/2009 10:14:30
albahomeland if you think that the SNP are comeing out of this well internationally you are sadly deludded.

basicly brown is sitting smugly while the scotish goverment is held in ridicule and contempt.
He will reap the dubiouse benifits while Scotland will take the fall out.

there is no doubt that the SNP led goverment has let Scotland down.
297

Andrew Morton,

Berkshire 26/08/2009 10:15:41
Which "liberal" and "democractic" country of the free world, is the only country to kill thousands of innocent men, women and children by way of nuclear weaponary?
298

Andrew Morton,

Berkshire 26/08/2009 10:16:33
298 Rev. S. Campbell

Oh man, I just snorted coffee on my computer! Thanks for that! ;-)
299

westernblot,

NY USA 26/08/2009 10:16:50
Some language for a Rev. How do I apply to join your cult.

Since u seem unaware your Libyan buddy was convicted.
300

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 10:17:13
@299 "basicly brown is sitting smugly while the scotish goverment is held in ridicule and contempt"

Got any evidence for that, have you? Can you quote us a source from ANY nation other than America?
301

brownlie,

26/08/2009 10:18:48
272 Graeme,

I would suggest that your comments reeks of "chip on the shoulder" in the silly suggestion that this decision was made on an anti-English/American platform. How on earth would that benefit the SNP?

If you care to look at the head-line - it states quite specifically that the medical advice is in doubt but if you read the article the real story emerges.

Take a look at the sentence where Maddox states ".. compassionate release under Scots law requires that a prisoner has less than three months to live".

This is not the case and Maddox, as a competent journalist, must know this so why print it?
302

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 10:18:53
@302 "Since u seem unaware your Libyan buddy was convicted."

I'm well aware of that fact, and also of the fact that he'd been granted a second appeal because the conviction was held by the Appeal Court to be suspect. Calley admitted his crime, and you let him go after three years sitting in his own house watching TV. The killers of innocent civilians from the USS Vincennes got medals. And you lecture us on releasing murderers?
303

thereyego,

Scotland 26/08/2009 10:19:23
I haven't approached this subject from a political viewpoints so far, i.e., Labour/Lib/SNP/Tory, but I do think that the opposition parties are playing a very dangerous game here, that will backfire on them. It is evident they are playing a "get the SNP" game, but the problem is that they are having to argue against compassion and terminal illness. Doing so in such a hamfisted manner as they are doing, because they are attempting political pointscoring, makes them all look like heartless, revengeful vigilantes, and is backfiring on them. No wonder, people with any sense of proportion like Henry McLeish and Malcolm Chisholm are distancing themselves. And Scottish people, being the underdog for so long, support the underdog, especially if he espouses compassion, so Mr McAskill's support will grow, the more the intolerance and sarcasm towards someone suffering from a terminal disease that most families have had experience of grows. I'd like to know the truth about Lockerbie, and if Magrehi is innocent, but truth flies out the window when vengeance and scapegoating appear.
304

New Town Resident,

26/08/2009 10:19:28
~193 Kenone

see my post288. I think the argument is that the compassionate release would be agreed in principle, but he would only actually be released within Scotland, when the medical prognosis was much clearer in terms of timing.

#273 Morris

see my post 288. seems his own intial application for release was to his own house in Glasgow, not to a hospice. This is surely significant? (Haven't seen the papers myself mind you, just read it in the newsapers)
305

morris,

edinburgh 26/08/2009 10:20:35
268
You said "
Now you guys are left to hope he dies quickly enough to justify your disgusting behavior. He will live as long as Gaddafi wants and no longer."

The man is terminally ill and no doctor on the planet could say how long he will live with accuracy. Estimates averaging around 3 months are generally accepted by most medical opinion as being as accurate as is possible I believe.

How long he takes to die would neither justify nor discredit our behaviour,but in saying this you show yourself as one sick individual for thinking that they could.
YOU DISGUST THE WORLD
306

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 10:20:37
@302 "Some language for a Rev. How do I apply to join your cult."

Raising your IQ above 80 would be a start.
307

Thistledhu,

26/08/2009 10:20:52
westernblot you are again makeing the mistake that this move has been endorsed by the People of Scotland it hasent and will not.
308

thereyego,

Scotland 26/08/2009 10:21:52
299 - who are you classing under "international" - Sweden, China, Africa, Italy? Could you perhaps give us some idea?
309

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 26/08/2009 10:22:00
The folk in the London press and media still don't get devolution, or Scotland they still think these decisions should be taken by them.

Of course they are past masters at capitulation and lacking moral fibre when dealing with other countries demands.

Now Mr Simpson I would think many medics around Scotland will be disgusted with you after your statements and press interviews.

Mrs Tormod is a nurse with 18 years service and said the man is a disgrace, no Doctor can give an absolute sure fire estimate of life they usually give the worst and best case scenario for the prognosis.

I am sure his pals at the BMA and GMC will be taking note of his opinion.

Also Grahamski you really do suffer from groundhog day.

Those polls who quoted either asked only Labour, Tories and Dum Dum members.

And was part of a UK survey how many questioned were from Scotland.

Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face.
310

Andrew Morton,

Berkshire 26/08/2009 10:22:42
310

And you are making the mistake of thinking you represent the peoples of scotland and how they think. There are a few letetrs in this here rag and a few other rags supporting MacAskill.
311

old soldier,

Muir-of-Ord 26/08/2009 10:22:49
WHAT A SHOWER OF IDIOTS
You have all gone for the Libyan propaganda and allowed the Col. to run you all like little puppets on a string he has twiddling sticks in No10, The White house and our beloved Scottish Parly now he must be sitting back laughing his socks off watching all the alliance infighting
The Col should be congratulated on his master stroke and I am sure he will be by all his own good friends from the former organizations he helped.
312

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 26/08/2009 10:22:58
Scottish Labour (UK Labour have expressed no view)are now seeking to criticise the decision of MacAskill not on the merits of the reports and recommendations of the Prison Medical Authorities, but on the accuracy of the medical opinions contained therein. It really is getting very desperate for them.

Also with regards to the policing of Megrahi had he been placed in a hospital, hospice or safehouse in Scotland. I dont dispute that it would take 48 police to do the job, but the logistics of the whole operation and the time scale in which it would have had to be implemented did not make it a practical option. If that option had been chosen , it would have received as much objections from the opposition as what has been done.

At the end of the day, Megrahi would have died and would have been returned as a martyr. Deep down most Scots agree with what was done because they didnt like that idea, or have no opinion on the matter. Only a very small number would have had him die in prison, and they are the same people who would have had him hanged.
313

westernblot,

NY USA 26/08/2009 10:23:13
309 Well you should work on it.

310 Thanks, but it seems otherwise. But we do appreciate the sentiment.
314

thereyego,

Scotland 26/08/2009 10:23:15
310 - I don't think you can talk for all the people of Scotland, Thistledhu. You certainly don't speak for me.
315

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 26/08/2009 10:23:35
310 It was Quasi- judicial decision if you don't like the law, start a democratic lawful campaign to get it changed.

Other wise, take a long walk off a short pier!
316

European Scot,

26/08/2009 10:23:54
276 Bully Wee

Perhaps it will be the old British Commonwealth posters chipping in next.
317

Thistledhu,

26/08/2009 10:24:17
Rev. S. Campbell The killers of innocent civilians from the USS Vincennes got medals. And you lecture us on releasing murderers'

Get a grip has no relevance in any context
318

Andrew Morton,

Berkshire 26/08/2009 10:24:44
Westernblot

Do you think America is the greatest nation on Earth?
319

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 10:24:54
@307 I'm still waiting for anyone to explain to me in what way it would have been any kind of improvement to release Megrahi to a hospice in Scotland. The nonsense about a "hero's welcome" is media hype - he was greeted by a few dozen people who were pleased to see what they regard as an innocent man return home. "Hero" implies they were acclaiming a killer for his crimes, in which case why would they have been waving the flag of his victims?

Here he would have been a burden on our state, occupying resources better deployed elsewhere and disturbing the peace of other terminally-ill people wherever he was treated, as well as taking up a bed that could have a Scottish person in it. In what way is that better for anyone?
320

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 10:26:06
@320 "Get a grip has no relevance in any context"

Er, what? The context is the treatment of people who blew up airliners full of innocent people. It's hard to imagine anything MORE relevant.
321

thereyego,

Scotland 26/08/2009 10:26:41
314 - so you know the truth about Lockerbie, and who's to blame. Perhaps you could enlighten the families who have been trying to get the truth for years. Dr Swires would be most delighted, you know, the chap who lost his daughter and thinks Megrahi got fitted up.
322

Thistledhu,

26/08/2009 10:27:32
thereyego i realise being in a minority may iritate you but thats the reality.
have you not followed the News listened to people round you looked at poll results?.

The man should be in jail full stop.
323

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 10:27:41
@310 "westernblot you are again makeing the mistake that this move has been endorsed by the People of Scotland it hasent and will not."

The people of Scotland seem evenly divided on the matter, dickwit. You don't speak for them.
324

Ben Thehoose,

26/08/2009 10:28:00
For what it's worth: I checked all this with a relative studying in the USA. The reply was that no one she knew/heard of was taking ANY interest in the matter. It is just not a talking point amongst anyone there but the grieving and the chattering classes.

So why do we rabbit on so? The milk is spilt, the horse has bolted, etc.
325

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 26/08/2009 10:28:43
316 Tell me my American friend is the rule of law and due process more important to political machinations?
326

Thistledhu,

26/08/2009 10:29:09
would people please look at the issue and not turn this into a Anti american bash

All it will do is attract the brain dead left wing tree huggers.
327

westernblot,

NY USA 26/08/2009 10:29:22
322 No. Sorry to disappoint.
328

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 10:29:25
@328 "have you not followed the News listened to people round you looked at poll results?."

Evidently it's you who hasn't done that. A majority of Scottish voters from the SNP, Labour and Lib Dems appears to support the decision, with only the Tories against. Can we assume you're one of them?
329

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 10:30:05
@334 "would people please look at the issue and not turn this into a Anti american bash All it will do is attract the brain dead"

You're here, so it looks like we're already too late for that.
330

Andrew Morton,

Berkshire 26/08/2009 10:30:42
332 Ben Thehoose

Simply because Scotland did something by herself without Mummy holding her hand.

I agree, I've checked with some rele's and pals accross the pond and they don't give a flying about it, they have more important things to think about like keeping a roof over thier heads, gasoline in thier trucks and bugers in thier bellies.
331

A. Mcleod,

26/08/2009 10:31:09
The inconvenient truth of this shocking case is that all is far from well within the Scottish legal system and sick to the core in scheming Whitehall. Pressurising a dying man, so desperate to return home, into dropping his legitimate appeal was beneath contempt but at least consistent. To suggest there was no such pressure is preposterous.

It is noteworthy that, in his statement, the Justice Secretary did not in any way take note of the fact that - in the years since the trial court's decision on 31 January 2001 - serious doubts have arisen about the guilty verdict and that the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission (SCCRC) – after four years of painstaking investigations and having spent a vast amount of public money on his case – stated (in June 2007) that it suspects a miscarriage of justice and had, thus, referred the case back to the appeal court.
332

Thistledhu,

26/08/2009 10:32:00
338 seem you have left the rest of my post out why?
so here is the rest for your benifit.

All it will do is attract the brain dead left wing tree huggers.
333

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 10:33:07
@342 "seem you have left the rest of my post out why?"

Because I lose interest halfway through your illiterate, ignorant dribblings, Tory Boy.
334

Marian,

26/08/2009 10:33:13
The smears and innuendo's that are coming thick and fast from Iain Gray and Tavish Scott about the Megrahi compassionate release are becoming tiresome because New Labour and the Lib Dems know full well that if this decision had been taken independently by a panel of Scots Judges instead of the Justice Secretary, the decision would have been exactly the same given what Scots law clearly says regarding the terms and conditions for compassionate release.

Make no mistake this is an attack by ill-informed people on the Scots justice system but despite it our Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill has upheld our justice system magnificently.

Scots Justice is not and never shall be at the beck and call of other nations who have different views of what justice should be and Scots Justice most certainly has no place for simply punishing people for revenge sake despite what these ill-informed critics appear to want.

The Scots legal establishment plus most New Labour and Lib Dem MSP's know this and that is why they are quietly supporting Kenny MacAskill's decision and that is why the Unionist opposition will fail with any attempt at a vote of no confidence.

As regards the much reported criticism of Kenny MacAskill's decision from the former head of the FBI investigation - it has to be regarded as emotional and biased - after all he has so much to lose if Abdelbaset Ali al-Megrahi is now allowed by Gaddafi to produce irrefutable evidence that he was the fall guy for a crime perpetrated by another party altogether as has been widely reported elsewhere outside of the UK.

You cannot pick and choose which laws you abide with and those you will not abide with as David Cameron, Iain Gray, Tavish Scott, et al, would appear to want to do.

So the only conclusion we can reach is that they are politicking of the very lowest kind in order to try and de-stabilise our SNP Government whilst cravenly attempting to appease the ill-informed critics of the decision in the UK media
335

Andrew Morton,

Berkshire 26/08/2009 10:34:15
http://www.washingtonpost.com/

http://www.nytimes.com/

http://www.chicagotribune.com/
336

thereyego,

Scotland 26/08/2009 10:34:27
Thistledhu, you don't actually make your mind up from polls and media, do you? You do know that newspapers write according to the political bias of their readers, like this one. And you do know that polls are easily manipulated depending upon the way the question is asked, or the sample of people polled?
337

Thistledhu,

26/08/2009 10:34:31
330 if you lived in scotland you would quickly find that in work places, social clubs etc there is nothing but disgust at this move.
338

Andrew Morton,

Berkshire 26/08/2009 10:36:50
347 Thistledhu

Yer taling pash.
339

Thistledhu,

26/08/2009 10:37:22
so the media is wrong the polls are wrong freinds and and workmates are wrong we should only listen to party activists and the clergy!!!!
340

thereyego,

Scotland 26/08/2009 10:37:42
Could you clarify, Thistledhu? What do you mean by an anti-American bash? Do you mean against the American people, or the actions of the American government. If it is the latter, you will find that many Americans do this, as they are very unhappy with their government, as are many of the citizens of countries who have got dragged into their military adventurism.
341

Andrew Morton,

Berkshire 26/08/2009 10:38:30
I believe Social clubs in Scotland, or working man's clubs and pubs are where generational Labour voters go to drink all day and spout the regurgitated nonsense the Gray man spouts and are free from the trachles (right?) of independent thought.
342

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 10:38:31
@347 "if you lived in scotland you would quickly find that in work places, social clubs etc there is nothing but disgust at this move."

No, I wouldn't. But being a halfwit I imagine you hang out with other halfwits, and therefore get a picture largely formed by halfwits.

Opinion is split almost exactly 50/50 according to all the polls, and what's more people generally don't really give a damn. About a dozen people could be bothered to come out and shout at Megrahi as he left, and demonstrations of public anger about the release have been notable by their absence. Down here I've yet to meet a single person who's even mentioned it, and I hear the same from family and friends back home.
343

Thistledhu,

26/08/2009 10:39:05
349 that depends on what club you go to.
344

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 10:39:37
@351 "so the media is wrong the polls are wrong"

The polls actually contradict your ignorant and ill-informed howlings, son. Pay attention.
345

thereyego,

Scotland 26/08/2009 10:40:06
I'm neither a party activist or clergy. It depends on your workmates, what kind of intellect they've got, and how much they've actually read up non-media sources. I definitely wouldn't base a case on the media, who filter the information through the political, cultural, and intellectual bias of their readership.
346

Thistledhu,

26/08/2009 10:41:31
Andrew Morton do you have any idea how snobish that posts sounds?
347

Andrew Morton,

Berkshire 26/08/2009 10:42:07
360

Try this. Shut it. I'm sure that's more on your intellectual level.
348

old soldier,

Muir-of-Ord 26/08/2009 10:42:31
325
I am sorry but I do not have the answers but when you look at the bigger picture ORDERING out the RENT A CROWD!!! in Tripoli put a very distasteful wedge in between the Western alliance throwing not only countries against each other but also parties within those countries!!!
Have you ever seen an International Airport where the general public are allowed to run on the apron/tarmac???
331 spelling comes from the auto correct, and I would love to be 14 again
349

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 26/08/2009 10:44:01
347 My experience is that it is very much split, folk have there own reasons why.

But for politicans in the Scottish parliament, actively wanting the rule and process of Scots law to be set aside for political machinations is down right disgraceful and undemocratic.

The primary role is to protect the rule of law and citizen rights not to subject them to political interference to curry favour at home and abroad.
350

morris,

edinburgh 26/08/2009 10:44:03
307 He would still require palliative care and you are saying the location is not critical.I agree in a geographical sense,but premises designed for the purpose would be the medical preference,with the specialist trained staff in attendance .It could probably have been done in his home in Glasgow but there is no doubt that he preferred to go home to the land of his birth.He was shown compassion .It does not come in degrees.You either respect a dying mans wishes or you don't and this grasping at straws just shows the Unionists up for what they are.Opportunistic.
Faced with the choice of going home to Libya or staying in Scotland I would be certain any Libyan would choose the former,

That is why he is in Libya.
SCOTSMAN PLEASE NOTE
Medical Evidence in doubt? They are doctors not clairvoyants Doh !
Nobody can say for certain how long he will live, only that its probably around 3 months as far as I know.
The notion that whether the SNP are correct or not is pro rata how long he lives is the product of a very sick mind indeed!
351

Isonomia,

Lenzie 26/08/2009 10:44:18
can we just move on from this?
352

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 10:46:17
@366 We will, but I suspect we've got one more week to endure. After that the opposition will have run out of opportunities for feeble point-scoring at Holyrood, and Mr Maddox and his mates will have nothing left to hype up.
353

thereyego,

Scotland 26/08/2009 10:46:45
Thanks for letting me know that you don't know the truth of Lockerbie, Old Soldier, so it may well be a fit up. I think there already is a split appearing in the Western Alliance because of America throwing its weight and bombs around the world. They don't need Gaddafi to cause a rupture. There may well be international airports around that do as you suggest, I don't suppose you have visited everyone. If this Gaddafi person is so despicable, why are we rushing off to do business with him, I'm presuming Andrew's little visit will now take place at a less conspicuous time?
354

Thistledhu,

26/08/2009 10:47:55
357 you being slelctive on the poll results you are reading me thinks.
355

Thistledhu,

26/08/2009 10:48:23
selective (correction)
356

old soldier,

Muir-of-Ord 26/08/2009 10:49:22
367
Some folks say that the Tripoli crowd was extended family

That all got past security without being checked that was orchestrated
357

thereyego,

Scotland 26/08/2009 10:49:40
370 - seems like there is one set of rules for poll readers such as yourself, and another set for people who don't agree with you? Could you clarify what you mean?
358

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 10:50:52
@370 No, you are. Only ONE poll shows a significant majority against the release, and that poll was extremely flawed (tiny Scottish sample, unheard-of organisation). If you can get an adult to master cut-and-paste for you, please direct us to all the other polls showing mass disagreement with the decision.
359

thereyego,

Scotland 26/08/2009 10:51:59
372 - I guess that's what happens in countries like Libya, they don't have to take their shoes off, give fingerprints, get psychologically profiled, or shoved off a plane like Cat Stevens cos you've used your religious name. Next we'll have to do the Highland Fling to prove we're Scottish... :(
360

Thistledhu,

26/08/2009 10:51:59
363 'Would it be the Rangers club? In which case that's where my fellow American buddies drink. It's the Texas Rangers club'

No it wouldent i do not come from Glasgow so have no affliation to them.
361

Mikey,

Carstairs Junction 26/08/2009 10:52:06
#19, you hit the nail on the head! We should be asking WHY are Labour and the SNP are sworn enemies?

Could it be that Labour drones are members of an English party and are just, as Jim Sillars said all those years ago, 90 minute nationalists.

Could it be that in their tiny minds, the Labour apparatchiks know this but refuse to confront it?

Could it be that some of them are so stupid that they believe that they're (LMFAO!) socialists?

As regards Labour's attitude to the SNP - well, the SNP are Scottish through and through! errrr...that's it!

And to finish, this non story is just that and no matter how the Labour mugwumps want to spin it, it's just that, a non story.
362

Thistledhu,

26/08/2009 10:52:24
or texas
363

suileandubh,

26/08/2009 10:52:30
347
Thistledhu
you puir thing. I don't live at home at the moment BUT friends and family still do and you've got it wrong. so wrong. I b******* wish I wis there the noo.
ah weel God bless you.
364

old soldier,

Muir-of-Ord 26/08/2009 10:53:32
369
I do not think "Gaddafi person is so despicable" just communistic he was handed the propaganda on a plate and he grab it
365

,

26/08/2009 10:53:58
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
366

thereyego,

Scotland 26/08/2009 10:56:13
Old soldier, did you mean "opportunistic", I can't imagine Gaddafi is a communist, but you never know.

I suppose that's how the wily old fox has survived 40 years, a bit like Fidel Castro (who we know is a communist)!
367

old soldier,

Muir-of-Ord 26/08/2009 10:58:45
382
You are correct thanks for helping me out but you could very near use both tags on him
368

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 11:00:12
@381 Wildly broken link there, Angus.
369

brownlie,

26/08/2009 11:00:26
371 Thistledhu

What is your opinion of the reactions of Scottish Labour, Lib/Dems and Tories if MacAskill had refused Megrahi's request?

Do you think they would have applauded this decision and view it as an excellent example of an SNP Government policy or do you think they would have been castigating him for:

(a) ignoring medical advice

(b) ignoring the advice from Dr Swire and other relatives who urged Megrahi's release

(c) his lack of compassion to an individual facing a painful death.

(d) being influenced by American opinion.

(e) wasting precious NHS resources

(f) wasting much need police resources

etc etc etc?
370

Thistledhu,

26/08/2009 11:03:13
Gaddafi has played the US, the communist block and now he has ran circles round a very much out of his depth Macaskill. while Gordon Brown sits back and signs deals. Deals that will negate and sideline the importance of Scotish oil.

The SNP clearly have a lot to learn about the realitys of goverment.
371

BOBO UMBONGONDO,

26/08/2009 11:04:00
349, social clubs by there very name, have nothing to do with labour, therefore socialism.
372

suileandubh,

26/08/2009 11:05:08
362
old soldier,
why would you even use 'spell check" at all?
373

New Town Resident,

26/08/2009 11:05:35
~365 Morris.

You're surely right to argue that Megrahi would prefer to return to Libya, and that more "compassion" is shown to him if this is allowed (albeit at the cost of less compassion being shown to the relatives).

However I think this is besides the point.

It's now clear the Scots law criteria are met by release in Scotland, indeed they are probably best met by this route.

It now seems the practicalities are a non argument, and so you are reduced to merely arguing what is best for Megrahi above all other considerations.

I think its also unfornute that you choose to label those opposing Megrahi's return to Libya as "unionist"

No-one here is arguing what would be a "unionsist" position, i.e. the decision should be taken away from KM, just that he made the wrong one. Personally I've posted numerous posts opposing the trams (i.e. agreeing with SNP policy), which is not a unionist issue either

For what its worth I think too many SNPers are "my party right or wrong" and anything opposing the SNP leadership is "unionist" - a dirty word of course used to dismiss all opposition and rational debate.

I rather suspect if KM had made the right decision, i.e. compassoinate release within Scotland, then you would all be supporting him?
374

morris,

edinburgh 26/08/2009 11:08:52
385

You are being sensible again !

Its not allowed on the NorthBritishperson.
375

Thistledhu,

26/08/2009 11:08:57
385 A court handed down the sentence it should be a court that decided on who is or is not released.

I have little or no regard for the politicions we now find ourself landed with.

But i do think had as he should Megrahi remained in prison it would have provoked little comment.

And Megrahi would have his day in court.
376

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 11:09:02
@390 Do you have an answer to post 323?
377

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 11:09:56
@394 "A court handed down the sentence it should be a court that decided on who is or is not released."

So you're saying the Justice Secretary should ignore the law of the land? Genius! You're excelling yourself with every post!
378

Geoff,

sa 26/08/2009 11:10:42
365 morris-good morning morris! On the subject of how long he lives let me briefly tell you of Schabir Shaik.

Long story short-Schabir Shaik and Jacob Zuma were both charged with fraud in connection-specifically that Shaik bribed Zuma. Shaik was jailed for 14 years. Zuma had his charges dropped and is now our President. Shaik applied for compassionate release and a panel of doctors judged him "in the final stages of a terminal illness". On that basis he was released and guess what-a miracle. Shaik is enjoying the nights spots of durban once again. My point-dont discount the posibility that on the demands of REALPOLITIEK even the SNP might be tacit party to a conspiracy of sorts. Dont discount the possibility of al meghari making a miraculous recovery and thereafter you should perhaps not rush to label good guys and bad guys in this whole sorry episode
For the record I think MacAskill is a good guy and certainly shouldnt carry the can for this. Also the Yanks shud butt out!
379

thereyego,

Scotland 26/08/2009 11:12:21
That's a very creative scenario you have there, Thistledhu. Can't imagine the US would be very happy with your interpretation of Libya running circles round them. It is likely they set up Libya to take the fall over this atrocity. When it happened, Libya was the enemy, now I bet they wish they could blame it on Iran. He's set up Gordon Brown (the Queen and Prince Andrew, poor soul had to cancel his visit), very nicely, though, with his comments, and amongst countries that count compassion amongst their attributes, raised Scotland's standing. As you can imagine, the US, who seems to go around incarcerating and torturing prisoners without trial, and who blow up civilians celebrating weddings, don't count compassion amongst their attributes, they prefer revenge. Scotland has also shown it can stand up to bullyboys like the States, unlike when we're part of the UK, and have to kowtow to whoever's in power in the US (remember "Yo, Blair!"). So, you'll see my opinion differs from yours, and that's what makes debate.
380

Geoff,

sa 26/08/2009 11:12:27
400 for the UK of GB and NI
381

Thistledhu,

26/08/2009 11:13:08
397 Macaskill acted under Scotish prison service guidelines not statute law.
382

brownlie,

26/08/2009 11:14:50
394 Thistledhu

Quite right, it should be up to all court.

Who made up this law, which MacAskill followed to the letter, in the first place?

Incidentally, Calum Cashley's blog dissects this article, quoting directly from the actual report. It is an eye-opener and well worth looking at.
383

suileandubh,

26/08/2009 11:15:54
272
Graeme,
another stupid comment
why would MacAskill lower himself to such depths just because of the English? To make yourself so controversial just because you apparently 'hate' the Englaish. you miss the point, SNP dop NOT hate the English. we would just like to be in charge of our own destiny again and unfortunately the biggest obstacle is the English government aka Westminster.
MacAskill is far more intelligent.
384

Geoff,

sa 26/08/2009 11:16:34
well 402 for the UK...:)
385

Geoff,

sa 26/08/2009 11:18:04
407 Wild Bill Hancock-cheers for the four ton William!!
386

Thistledhu,

26/08/2009 11:18:57
hereyego, not creative but fact the americans stepped in the late 60's to prevent a coup against Gaddafi.
387

archie23,

london 26/08/2009 11:21:50
I blame the parents.
388

Geoff,

sa 26/08/2009 11:23:20
398 Jimmy Shimmy-a weekend in tripoli for two?
389

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 26/08/2009 11:23:52
@409 "Macaskill acted under Scotish prison service guidelines not statute law"

Try to pay attention, you brainless clown. The fact that McAskill, not judges, had to make the decision IS a matter of law. The decision itself was arrived at under prison service rules, but the person making that decision was stipulated by LAW.
390

thereyego,

Scotland 26/08/2009 11:24:04
... and...? Must have suited them at the time, a bit like Saddam Hussein...
391

suileandubh,

26/08/2009 11:25:09
this forum has run out of useful debate
392

Miss H,

26/08/2009 11:25:16
Journalists are so stupid aren't they?

Take this sentence:

"Clinicians who have assessed Mr Megrahi have commented on his relative lack of symptoms when considering the severity and stage of underlying disease."

They appear to believe that this sentence means that he might not be as ill as has been claimed.

Here are my tips to them.

1. Buy dictionary.
2. Look up 'symptom'.
3. Look up 'disease'.
4. Re-analyse sentence.


393

suileandubh,

26/08/2009 11:27:16
y399
Geoff,sa
you're not a member of phillip adams' cynics club are you?
394

Thistledhu,

26/08/2009 11:28:25
Rev. S. Campbell cleary free informed debate does not sit well on your shoulders why the name calling ?

but so you understand there is NO statute law to say he had to intervene.

and many are chooseing to ignore there was an ongoing court appeal that in his actions he has run rough shod over.
395

suileandubh,

26/08/2009 11:29:01
421
Miss H
Well, journos are supposed to be smart but . . . well . . . this is 2009
396

old soldier,

Muir-of-Ord 26/08/2009 11:30:15
389

Hey dark eyes we cannot all be good spellers
397

Mèths,

26/08/2009 11:33:44
Wild Bill from the West (of Glasgow?)

Interesting facts there. Any chance of a link?
398

Tom of Ocean city,

former U.K. colony of Maryland 26/08/2009 11:38:21
Muslim appeasement seems to have engulfed the Mother Country...pity..
399

Miss H,

26/08/2009 11:38:28
394 thisthedhu says 'A court handed down the sentence it should be a court that decided on who is or is not released.'

I agree with that actually and I suspect that as a consequence of this powers of authorisation of compassionate release will be transferred from ministers to courts.

However at present the power is with the minister who has no option but to rule on applications made.

If I read you right what you are suggesting is that Kenny MacAskill should have made his decision on the basis of the political consequences which would ensue and should have placed fear of those consequences above the judicial process.

Had he done so he would have appeared weak and cowardly however (because it would have been a weak and cowardly action) and I believe that would have damaged Scotland's reputation far more in the long term.
400

Miss H,

26/08/2009 11:39:56
429 Surely what you object to is actually the lack of appeasement of right wing American opinion?
401

Geoff,

26/08/2009 11:40:52
423 suilendubh-not at present. could you forward me a membership form :)
402

James at Perth,

26/08/2009 11:43:08

Dr Simpson is not denying that Magrahi is terminally ill. Without examining the pationt or having a full history, Simpson is asserting that the patient may live more than 3 months.

At best his argument is that release should have been delayed and accept the risk that Magrahi might die in jail. So the policy of the Labour party is to prolong the agony of a dying man.

This is a laugable posture and Dr Simson should be admonished for prostituting professional ethics to serve a political end.





403

suileandubh,

26/08/2009 11:43:37
Hey proving you are able to translate from the Gaelic to English, well done but my point was . . . spell checks are American spelling, 99.9% of the time. Is that what you would want.
I am not and wouldn't ever have a go at anyone for spelling but why would you want spell the American way???????
That's the part I don't understand. No offence/offense meant at all.
404

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 26/08/2009 11:44:49
About 30 US states have compassionate release functions in their legal systems.
405

suileandubh,

26/08/2009 11:45:26
432
Geoff,
I will when I can find them. Typical cynics. :)
406

Mèths,

26/08/2009 11:45:53