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New Scots vote gives Brown three months to save political skin



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Published Date: 14 August 2008
LABOUR is facing the prospect of another catastrophic by-election defeat after the death of John MacDougall, the Glenrothes MP, put Gordon Brown's plans for an autumn fightback in jeopardy.
Mr MacDougall died early yesterday aged 60, having suffered from asbestos-related cancer for more than two years. The Prime Minister mourned the loss of a "personal friend" whom he had visited on Monday at the Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy.

But even as tributes were coming in for the popular former leader of Fife Council, the Labour Party was preparing for a fresh crisis, with sources privately admitting it was a "personal tragedy and a political disaster".

Mr Brown has been plotting an autumn recovery plan, which will include a possible Cabinet reshuffle, a morale-boosting speech at the party conference in Manchester and a mini-Budget packed with giveaways.

But insiders believe his efforts could be in vain if Labour loses a possible November by-election – and the SNP is 1/4 to win it. Defeat in a previously safe seat neighbouring Mr Brown's own constituency would almost certainly precipitate a leadership challenge. It would be the third by-election lost by Labour in the past six months, following the shock loss to the SNP in Glasgow East and defeat by the Tories at Crewe and Nantwich.

One MP, who did not wish to be named, said: "This could be the most futile recovery plan for Gordon. If he loses the election there is a high chance that he will step down voluntarily."

A senior Scots MP said if Labour lost the seat in the PM's own backyard, the "game is up". He went on: "He is going to make a big speech at the Labour conference in September to fight for his political life. If he then goes on to lose Glenrothes, he is stuffed.

"If we lose this, Gordon will be the only Labour MP in Fife, which is just untenable. He has a massive test ahead of him, and he cannot afford to fail."

The Prime Minister has been hoping to launch an economic recovery plan at Labour's autumn conference in September. A reshuffle has also been pencilled in for the autumn.

Workers who lost out under the removal of the 10p tax band are also due to receive more money in their pockets from late October.

But any potential pre-election giveaways could be wasted if the strategy does not win over disgruntled voters or overwhelm a sleek SNP machine.

Mr MacDougall had a majority of less than 11,000 at the 2005 general election, and it needs a 14.3 per cent swing to the SNP for the Nationalists to seize it – much less than the 23 per cent swing needed to wrest Glasgow East from Labour's grip.

Labour chiefs said that, despite the majority, they were starting from scratch to keep the seat. The party is planning to move the writ for the by-election when parliament reconvenes from its summer recess, in the week beginning 6 October, delaying the poll until later that month or early November in the hope that it gives Labour a chance to catch up on the inroads made by the SNP.

However, one Labour MP feared that strategy could backfire, giving too much time to the SNP to entrench itself.

The Nationalists are quietly confident that they can take the seat, a view affirmed by the bookies, who yesterday offered short odds on an SNP victory.

The Nats' campaign machine has geared up in the area since last October, and it has spent the past few months canvassing 40,000 constituents after taking the corresponding Holyrood seat last year. The SNP made inroads in the local authority and now runs Fife Council jointly with the Liberal Democrats.

It is believed the Nationalists will push for an early by-election, pointing out that Labour moved the writ for a quick election in Glasgow East because it was to its tactical advantage, and accusing it of hypocrisy if there is a delay.

One hope for the Labour Party is that the Liberal Democrats are organised enough to steal votes from the SNP.

One MP raised the prospect of the Glenrothes by-election being coupled with another for the Holyrood constituency of Jack McConnell. The former First Minister is expected to give up his Motherwell and Wishaw seat in the Scottish Parliament to take over as High Commissioner to Malawi.

"This would be a good time for Jack to jack it in," the MP said. "The likely scenario is we go back (to parliament] in October, then call it. We go to the polls in November and have possibly two by-elections."

However, one Labour source questioned the wisdom of delaying the election until the dark nights of November.

Possible contenders for the Labour candidacy include Alex Rowley, Mr Brown's election agent and the leader of the Labour group at Fife Council; Christina May, the former MSP who was ousted last May, and Claire Baker, the list MSP for Mid Scotland and Fife.

The Prime Minister may also come under pressure to get involved in the by-election.

He was able to steer clear of the battle for Glasgow East, with Downing Street citing the convention that prime ministers do not get involved in by-elections.

However, as the only Labour MP whose constituency neighbours Glenrothes, Mr Brown has to take on some duties for the patch, which could make it difficult for him to avoid travelling to the seat.

Meanwhile, David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary, renewed speculation about his leadership ambitions yesterday, when he said he had no regrets about an article he wrote for the Guardian last month, which was largely interpreted as a pitch for the top job.


ANALYSIS: Could it be a repeat performance for SNP?

BROWN'S TRIBUTE: 'A good friend and servant of people'

SCOTTISH LABOUR: Widespread support boosts Gray's ranking

OPINION: How Labour can win back hearts and minds in Scotland

OBITUARY: John MacDougall


The full article contains 1011 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 14 August 2008 8:23 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Labour Party
 
1

Castaway,

14/08/2008 00:27:10
Scotland Office Minister, David Cairns,claimed that a writ for the Glasgow East by-election had to be rushed through to ensure the constituency was not without an MP for months.Could this also be said for Glenrothes ?

Gordon Brown: Speaker, I’m sure he’d(Angus Robertson MP SNP)be complaining if we’d waited to have the Glasgow East by election. It is right that the constituents of this area of Glasgow have a new MP as soon as possible.
Could this also be said for the constituents Glenrothes ?
2

JWW,

Whitburn, West Lothian 14/08/2008 00:28:29
Will the backers of David (Thatcher mk3) Miliband be rubbing their hands in glee at the prospect of another opportunity to further destabilise the Labour leadership?
3

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 14/08/2008 00:41:47
Margaret Curran come on down. Your country needs you.
The Wicked Witch of the East (Glasgow) has to be Brown's Dream Team by-election candidate.
Oooh-layyy-olay-olay-olay-oklay (ad nauseum)!!!!!
4

,

14/08/2008 01:14:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
5

SlyFifer,

Somewhere west of Scotland 14/08/2008 01:16:40
If I buy a sword and mail it to Brown. Will he fall on it gracefully and save us all the trouble ?
6

Aqwes,

Edinburgh 14/08/2008 02:10:41
#3

Margaret Curran, on being told that she had been selected said: "It is an honour to represent the Labour party in this by-election. I have lived here all my life. Or maybe I've worked here. Sorry, I have to hand out a red balloon to a child."
7

henrymanchester,

UK 14/08/2008 02:15:44
The problem is as soon as we get rid of that idiot Brown, well get that lunatic Milliband.

Another right wing fascist.

Great. I thought we'd at least seen the last of his kind for awhile after Blair ran away.
8

jj veritas,

14/08/2008 03:50:58
Couldn't sleep -3.54am. Perhaps a lot on my mind. Got up to read the online press and was attracted by this article on the Prime Minister and the next by-election. I wonder if Gordon is reading this too just now.
9

DesertRat,

Southwest, USA 14/08/2008 04:52:55
"The Nationalists are quietly confident that they can take the seat, a view affirmed by the bookies, who yesterday offered short odds on an SNP victory."

Handwriting on the wall... If Ladbrokes is giving short odds, (And they have no political axe to grind.) the SNP should be a shoe-in.
10

NemarketNDPer,

Taipei, Taiwan 14/08/2008 05:02:52
Brown should wake up and realize that he's playing the role of a third-rate Tony Blair poodle. His only chance would be if he becomes his own man, a real Scot, who stands up to the war criminals in Washington and withdrawls ALL troops from Iraq and Afghanistan NOW!
11

Nikostratos,

14/08/2008 05:42:05
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/aug/14/gordonbrown.labour

"Mr Brown is certainly an unlucky politician"

Gordon should call this election early get it other with..personally i don.t believe Gordon will ever voluntarily stand down someone will have to hand him the 'pearl handled revolver'

Untill then we await the 'Nationalist hordes' at Glenrothes they say there are many of them.
12

LEAL,

14/08/2008 06:07:24
How are Labour going to explain why they need to wait until October before the byelection?
13

Solidarity supporter,

north berwick 14/08/2008 06:15:48
The saviour of Labour is at hand I saw Henry Mcleish on tv last night and he is obviously waiting to be drafted as Labour candidate after his triumph as First Minister his old constituents would welcome him back!
14

Black Five,

edinburgh 14/08/2008 06:40:33
How I wish it was a general election ,not a by election.The sooner this Brown is sent packing the better.This guy has presided over the biggest overspend since the dark days of the seventies.When the Tories get back in the country will be in a total shambles.We are looking at over 40 B overspend this year and more so he can prop himself up.As each day passes I`m more convinced that he is a communist as his politics and spin are of that creed.
15

McNasty,

Edinburgh 14/08/2008 06:54:13
GB, MP and PM of GB is presiding over the highest petrol, gas and electricity prices ever. Utility companies are ransacking the population at a sickening rate, and, GB does nothing. At the present rate of increase nuclear power will appear cheap. But then, perhaps that is his intention all along?
I hope the people of Glenrothes kick Nu-Labours teeth in at this by-election.
16

Teamdroid,

14/08/2008 06:56:27
Don't see how holding both elections on the same day would save Brown. In fact the SNP could play it to bury him even more effectively, by focussing their efforts on the Westminster seat. They're more likely to do that anyway, as it's much more winnable for them.

If they won Glenrothes but lost McConnell's seat, analysts would then see Brown as the specific problem!
17

FedUpTaxPayer,

Edinburgh 14/08/2008 07:07:07
Why would anyone even want to save Brown? Surely even Labour supporters would want rid of him.

Here's the man who didn't abolish boom and bust, ruined the private sector pensions, squandered away the money from the good years, and who I'd find it almost impossible to believe could win the next election for them.

I'm not a Labour supported myself, but I would have thought it was in their best interests, and frankly the countries, if he was replaced.
18

John S,

14/08/2008 07:21:59
Do the constituents of Glenrothes realise that until a new MP is elected, constituency matters are usually handled by an MP of the same party in a neighbouring constituency which happens to be Gordon Brown MP ?
Now you can take your problems to Gordon the "top man" in Government and I am sure he will be paying the Glenrothes constituency a visit from time to time as part of his commitment in looking after the constituents of Glenrothes until a new MP is elected.
19

tommy M,

Scotland 14/08/2008 08:15:29
Brown will have to come and show both of his faces in Glenrothes. I hope the constituents take this opportunity to wipe the smarmy smile off once and for all.
20

weh,

14/08/2008 08:31:29
No way is Mr Bean EVER going to show face in Glenrothes!

Remember-this is the guy who RUNS AWAY from potential trouble! Also recall that he didnt appear in Glasgow east!
Remember what happened then??

The guy is giving us Scots a VERY bad press worldwide!

21

Bob M,

Paisley 14/08/2008 08:33:04
#20 Seconded. I'm not a Labour voter but find it a bit sad that the by-election speculation has eclipsed the fact that a popular public figure has just died.


22

Jock ex 45Cdo RM,

THORNHILL 14/08/2008 08:42:09
Message for the 'ADMINISTRATOR' where is the news ocvering the killing of yet another serviceman in Afghanistan. Your news items have increasing trivia rubbish.
23

Fenland Farmer,

Cromwells England 14/08/2008 09:19:49
England ask's that every Scot does his duty.England does NOT want this man as PM. It's Time!
24

weh,

14/08/2008 09:27:10
ngland ask's that every Scot does his duty.England does NOT want this man as PM. It's Time!"

For heavens sake farmer-what makes YOU think that WE want the snotgobbling freak either??

YOU lot can keep the turd-after all YOU lot voted his lot in 3 TIMES IN A ROW!
25

Steve_HMFC,

14/08/2008 09:32:28
A massive shame that more column inches in the scotsman et al yesterday were about the upcoming by-election and the whole Miliband/Brown/Autum relaunch/SNP Glasgow east etc.. the notes on Mr MacDougall's life seemed to be merely a footnote.

Nice to know theres more importanmt things to life(+death) than politics eh?
26

Steve_HMFC,

14/08/2008 09:33:52
#20 #23

Exactly, at least a day of respect wouldnt go a miss before by election (yawn) fever kicks in?
27

overshot,

perth 14/08/2008 09:50:08
24
it sad any of our young men have to die in somebody elses war.correct me if i am wrong did he volunteer for the military. getting killed in action is an occupational hazard is it not. please do not think i am insensitive, my heart is with his family, this is an article about a upcoming glenrothes by-election
28

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 14/08/2008 09:53:10
The Labour campaign in Glenrothes will be just as chaotic as the one in Glasgow East. They don't have any chance of holding this seat.
29

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 14/08/2008 09:58:53
#8 henry

The Scottish people will loathe Milliband. Cameron or Milliband for PM? A win-win for the SNP.
30

Logie Almond,

14/08/2008 10:00:33
There used to be a convention that political speculation about by-elections didn't start until after the funeral of the deceased MP. A pity that this no longer seems to be accepted by the media. It shows great disrespect to Mr MacDougall's family.
31

Venachar,

14/08/2008 10:09:07
Voter registration slips came through the doors in Glenrothes so nothing is going to happen till they are returned. Might find that the demography has changed a bit.
Labour have performed poorly as representatives in this area for years and the SNP have been working very hard. With all the negative things like inflation, fuel, electricity and gas prices and the rest go figure what the result is going to be.

I for one want a representative that will not just vote the way his party wants every single time - that is not representation.
32

shivago8,

livingston 14/08/2008 10:19:48
Put McLEISH in,surely another glorious win for the SNP.Labour have difficulty in finding someone who has not had their nose in the snout.

Come on Glenrothes,the SNP need your support in getting rid of two things.
BROON and SPEW LABOUR
33

Ninian Reid,

Edinburgh 14/08/2008 10:25:51
I'm an SNP supporter and simply wish to offer my condolences to the MacDougall family in their time of profound sorrow after a fight bravely fought at the Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy. I may well wish to comment more stridently at some point in the political future. For now, though, this is about the grievous loss of a family man.
34

Steve,

14/08/2008 10:48:43
Well said 35
The SNP has already cancelled all activity in Fife for the time being as a mark of respect.

It's a shame the media feel the need to begin by-election speculation so soon after John McDougall's death.
35

Yeah1,

14/08/2008 11:15:27
See this quote from the article:

"The Nats' campaign machine has geared up in the area since last October, and it has spent the past few months canvassing 40,000 constituents."

Seems rather predatory to me - he was suffering from cancer for the past 2 years so perhaps the SNP anticipated a by-election at some point and started campaigning there last October.
36

Yeah1,

14/08/2008 11:17:17
#13 Leal:

"How are Labour going to explain why they need to wait until October before the byelection?"

Its the parliamentary recess - parliament doesn't start again till October, thats why the by-election won't be till October at the earliest.
37

muckle,

14/08/2008 11:18:30
SNP THE TRUTH WILL OUT
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/aug/14/gordonbrown.snp

The SNP also paid warm tribute to MacDougall yesterday. But Labour sources say the party has had an "under the radar" campaign in the constituency since it became clear he was terminally ill. The SNP is likely to argue that Tricia Marwick, who holds the SNP seat at Holyrood, is simply acting as a diligent MSP.
38

blackley,

Edinburgh 14/08/2008 11:19:23
As has been stated it's a sad day when The Scotsman sees a man's death in terms of its possible effect on the political scene rather than what it is i.e.the loss of a worthwhile life.
39

pehman,

sussex 14/08/2008 11:28:31

No,1 Castaway,

Don't for get that a cabinet meeting is due to take place in the w/midlands area of England soon. And that may be used to call the by-election.
40

Scottish 'N British,

14/08/2008 11:53:26
Clearly on a shoogly peg.

I predict Salmond's will end up there too - broken promises, broken promises...
41

mr angry,

ayrshire 14/08/2008 12:13:03
#23 He may be well known in Fife , but completely and utterly unheard of on the west coast. Going by the reports of his voting in parliament he was just a stooge that voted as ordered and took no account of what his constituents wanted. His voting record is shocking.
He may have done some good stuff locally but he did nothing to help Scotland in Westminster. Sad that he has died but we are well shot of MP's like him , we need people in Westminster that will vote in scotland's interest, for the people of Scotland and not just as ordered to by the party.
42

subrosa,

14/08/2008 12:13:50
# 29

Your comment to # 24 is insensitive. He is right, the death of one of our military should be headlines. If it was a police person killed during duty would you expect it to be headline news? Or a fireman?

This thread is about Gordon Brown as far as the headline is concerned. It's not about a by-election.

Yes our military volunteer to do the job and yes they get paid (although some would say not nearly enough) for it.

Gordon Brown is part of the bunch who sent our military to these wars. Many Scots disapprove of these wars. My family member who is involved will leave the military if he's sent to another war zone. He's already done 6 tours of duty within 5 years and has had enough.

The promise that 2,500 would be back from Iraq by last Christmas that didn't transpire has wiped any belief that politicians care about HM Forces. Not only do these lies affect the personnel themselves, they affect thousands more in their direct families. So, please consider yourself fortunate that you don't have a family member who wished to dedicate themselves to protecting the people of this country. If you did, then you would understand the feelings of # 24 and myself.
43

subrosa,

14/08/2008 12:21:08
# 39

The SNP constantly keep in contact with their electorate by going round doors and have done for many years. It continues around 45 weeks of the year. Is that campaigning? I think not. It's the best way of hearing what the electorate think and want. How else are they to find out?

The sniping by labour is just jealousy as they don't have enough activists to undertake such contact and they don't respect the electorate enough to keep contact with them.

Green cheese.
44

Calum Crubag,

14/08/2008 12:25:17
They said Glasgow East was Broon's last chance. Whatever, Milibland isn't a solution. The problem with Labour isn't Brown. Blair was hated too. The Scottish 'leaders' weren't much better. The entire party is reduntant.

Time to leave auld Tory/Labour behind.
45

C U Jimmy,

Mauchline 14/08/2008 12:30:58
You don't have to be a psychologist to read between the lines of all the labour comments, that they are all, with few exceptions, more concerned with their personal positions and their over the top salaries.
46

lulach mac gille coemgain,

14/08/2008 12:41:29
‘LABOUR is facing the prospect of another catastrophic by-election defeat after the death of John MacDougall’

Lets buck the trend of the Scotsmans doom laden reporetage shall we and reword this as . . .

Scotland people are yet again facing the prospect of improving their country and situation by having the opportunity to break from the oppressive London lead Labour dictatorship that has lead us in to Wars - increased our standing as a terrorist target - subjected the UK passport holding citizen to big brother monitoring - lost control of foreign immigration - sold swathes of our business to other countries - given our employment away to slave labour - green tax us whilst they fly around on jollies etc etc etc - yes Labour the fightback - don’t do as I do - do as I tell you !

Cheerio BROON !
47

lulach mac gille coemgain,

14/08/2008 12:45:27
Anybody ewver notice Gordon Brown can’t look ye in the eye when having a conversation ?
48

morris,

edinburgh 14/08/2008 12:47:55
" the death of John MacDougall, the Glenrothes MP, put Gordon Brown's plans for an autumn fightback in jeopardy".Thats funny I thought it was his record in office.

An Autumn fight back? I would have thought a GLASGOW FAIR FIGHTBACK WAS MORE APPROPRIATE
So the leaves that are green turn to Brown presumably?

Fat chance !

muckle,14/08/2008 11:18:30

What total nonsense.Its her job!

She cannot stop being the MSP because of a by election ,and if any criticism were justified it would be that she was/is NOT doing her job.Of course things happen in the background but its in every seat in Scotland,and the SNps view is the fund raising and organising starts again the day after the election!

I knew Labour were desperate but I had ruled out the use of sublime stupidity.
We are always ready for a by election.Its called organisation.We expected Brown to call an early election last year,since to continue was complete madness.That has been born out, and Im confident that every SNP constituency organisation is ready to go at anytime!
Brown had better start reading situations vacant!

Looks like Brown the Clown really screwed up this time!
Now we know why Blair was leader!
49

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 14/08/2008 12:48:52
If he had an ounce of integrety left in his pathetic body, he would go to the country.

The UK DOES NOT WANT STUPID LABOUR IN POWER. This has been made abundantly clear time and time again in recent months.
50

morris,

edinburgh 14/08/2008 13:01:08
51 Precisely.

Its obvious he fears the result, or he would have had the sense to know that to delay only reduces what little chance Labour ever had.Thats long past now, and he will get the biggest hiding in British political history ,and he knows it.
Whistling while Rome burns is what Brown is doing.

Maybe you should try honesty Gordon.Without that there will be no fightback ever!
England does not want Labour,and they want Brown even less!
I was testing the water on Merseyside a few weeks back.Labour face a wipe out even in so called heartland seats.
THERE IS NO WAY BACK NOW.
51

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 14/08/2008 13:15:47
Broon yer Goin Doon...
52

Alba Abú,

Saor Alba 14/08/2008 13:25:38
The end of this discredited union is in sight!
53

colin, crombie,

dunfermline 14/08/2008 13:33:13
maybe theres so much media speculation already because in Crewe Labour were so desperate to get it over with they moved the writ for the election before Gwynneth Dunwoody's funeral. there's respect!
54

colin, crombie,

dunfermline 14/08/2008 13:34:20
i cant see gordon brown visiting his neighbouring constituency when he is so complacent he never visits his own!
55

ptdoug,

14/08/2008 13:34:23
John MacDougall was agood man and a fine representative of Fife.
A good Scot, a fighter for what he believed in. He will be missed .

Meanwhile...
The Times...."SNP hot favourites to take Glenrothes"

Full story at...www.cybernatcentral.
blogspot.com

also....pop over and vote in our latest poll...

Are the scottish Press pro-Unionist and biased against the SNP?

..and check out the final result on our last poll..

Who would you prefer to have as Scotlands closest neighbours, geographicly speaking?
56

Venachar,

14/08/2008 14:14:53
The picture at the head of this article says it all.
PM and local MP in front of a Labour poster encouraging us to pick up welfare benefits.

What happened to politicians attracting jobs to Fife.

Mr MacDougall may well have been a good family man but as far as I am concerned he was not a "fine" representative of Fife. I checked what he had done in Westminster during his first term - next to nothing.
His voting record is with his party's wishes nobody else's.

Labour cannon fodder we can do without thank you!

57

Beergoggles,

England 14/08/2008 14:26:53
#57 2nd only to the French? Some are still obviously brain-washed into believing the Auld Alliance was a reality ;) Not bad considering the Teletubbies finished 3rd.

As for myself, I am of course very happy to have my Welsh and Scottish brothers as neighbours.

58

Can-Scot,

Pickering 14/08/2008 14:30:06
The more I read of Gordon Brown's political life,
the more I am being convinced that in 50 years time, historians will look back at this point and see an unfolding chain of events, some avoidable, some not; which led inexorably to total independance for Scotland.

I should live so long!!

59

Beergoggles,

England 14/08/2008 14:33:36
#60 ....and happy of course to have them as neighbours in an independent England too. Well, most of them ;)
60

Can-Scot,

Pickering 14/08/2008 14:38:19

The Scotsman seems to unable to point out that this Pickering is in Ontario, Canada.

61

The Master,

14/08/2008 14:45:17
#60 Can: Either that, or events that led inexorably to the SNP's final ditching of the separation agenda as it sought instead to concentrate on building on its new found popularity as a popular left wing alternative to Labour. See, I can do futurology as well!

When are you Nats finally going to wake up to the fact that your party is popular within the context of the SP and that your separation policy is a mere eccentric novelty, not to be taken too seriously, as far as most people are concerned?
62

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 14/08/2008 16:04:30
Could it be that GB is secretly orchestrating the demise of the union in a clever yet devious manner on behalf of the good people of Scotland? The fact that there are so many Scotsmen in the UK cabinet leads me to believe that there might be some interesting meddling going on...Or did I dream it?
63

Can-Scot,

Pickering, Ontario 14/08/2008 16:08:09
#63

I didn't say I was a Nat. I just said I could see it coming and not necessarily through the efforts of one person.

What the heck, I'm probably completely wrong.

Where Mr Brown will have gone by then will be of little importance.



Perhaps it's more likely that by that time, Europe will have become The United States of Europe, with Brussels firmly in control and none of this will matter.

64

Can-Scot,

Pickering, Ontario 14/08/2008 16:10:30

#64.

I think you may have tripped over a few links
of that "Chain"
65

Banana Heid,

Ardrossan 14/08/2008 16:23:41
#66 Not sure what you mean there fella, Links? Tripped? Chain? I just dont understand. Help me please? You mean i'm off topic? I was just being silly as I always like to do on these threads but I don't understand your comment! please explain to me what u mean? please?
66

Saruman,

14/08/2008 16:51:46
#67 Banana: I think #66 is referring to the chain of causation in your argument. Your nexus is distinctly flimsy (and I'm not being personal here, honest!)
67

kimba,

14/08/2008 16:54:58
I just hope salmond's head doesn't swell any further if he wins in Fife or his supporters will be declaring himself lord protector next LOL
68

elizabeth the first,

14/08/2008 16:59:48
Poor blighters, what have they done to deserve an invasion by hordes of Nats,I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemies LOL
69

Conan the Librarian™,

14/08/2008 17:36:32
70
Er...the Nats live there Liz.As you shall see when an SNP MP is elected.
70

elizabeth the first,

14/08/2008 17:51:07
71. They really ought to quarantine the place then.
71

Conan the Librarian™,

14/08/2008 18:04:00
72
A rather quick aboutface Liz?

For us or agin us eh?

So just what part of this Scepter'd Isle do you come from?
72

,

14/08/2008 18:19:49
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
73

Conan the Librarian™,

14/08/2008 18:45:55
74
Hey the Clan McMadman.Have you got a tartan yet?
74

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 14/08/2008 18:58:23
Surely the headline should have read that Broon had 3 months to save his political hide?
75

Can-Scot,

Pickering, Ontario 14/08/2008 20:45:16

Re. # 67
Sorry, I should have explained better.
I took # 64 to be your response to mine in # 60 re.
"chain of events". Your comments there are part of what
I was hinting at.

I don't think Brown is deliberately trying to create an
"independant Scotland" situation, but events which seem to be outside anyone's control are moving in that direction. What's happening in Brown's cabinet is just part of it.

Keep stirring the pot Banana Heid, I love it!!

76

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 14/08/2008 20:45:41
Mr McDougall only died yesterday, at just 60 years old, from a terrible occupational disease: asbestosis. I am very sorry that he had to suffer so terribly for so long, and I am sorry for his family and friends on their loss. At least he is now released from his ordeal.
77

Nikostratos,

14/08/2008 20:46:40
149
#
"I don't think you accept that there has been a sea change in Scottish politics; the SNP has proved that they CAN do what they promise."

Silly Conan all mixed up as usual here is what he meant to say

"I don't think you accept that there has been a sea change in Scottish politics; the SNP has proved that they promise what they CAN do??"


#70

"Nationalist Hordes" get it right get it right!


http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p314/hawkeyexy/1068289-060406-6698913.jpg


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14/08/2008 20:47:51
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14/08/2008 20:49:53
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80

Nikostratos,

14/08/2008 21:01:59
#81 McMadman's Cousin,


Oh look its McMadman's Cousin...so stern jawed and determined........

http://static.metal-archives.com/images/2/4/4/6/24468.JPG

McMadman's Cousin Scotland's big Bore!

lulz.....
81

,

14/08/2008 21:09:44
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Nikostratos,

14/08/2008 21:22:58
#83 McMadman's Cousin,

night,night don't let the bed bugs bite.........
83

Conan the Librarian™,

14/08/2008 21:27:03
79
Good Evening Niko.

I didn't quite understand your...er..."re-writing" of my post.
Perhaps you could put it back into English?

84

Nikostratos,

14/08/2008 21:41:20
#85 Conan

I.m just off to bed as its late for primary six types(whats that ).Anyway it means "A promise is a cloud; fulfillment is rain." ~Arabian Proverb
85

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14/08/2008 21:43:33
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14/08/2008 21:47:10
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argonaut,

east lothian 15/08/2008 00:21:17

i wonder what the history books will say about this period of scottish political history ? i reckon the tories have strategically given up on scotland, their eye is quite rightly fixated on england. labour are morally as well as financially bankrupt - no longer the natural choice of the working class! labour scotland have nobody to lead their ' shock ' or ' shocking ' troops into battle against the nationalists - brown will get booted, the attitudes that exist between labour MP's and MSP's will worsen - cameron will win the general - next will be english votes for english ??? in,london - further fracture of the union......
bye brown, bye labour scotland - the end is nigh, for months us scots have watched scot labour moaning and greetin, no constructive arguements, weak leadership..a bunch whom were so drunk with the bevvie of power and cannie deal with the hangover of now having nout!
brown will go first...cameron wins...scotland wont play ball with the tories in london...nature takes it course...the auld marriage ends in divorce
88

bluehead,

edinburgh 22/08/2008 09:40:33
brown deserves three months hard labour for being the worst prime minister in living memory,
just how much further can this country sink before it disappeares into oblivion,
how bad can it be when we have to take orders from a foreign country,it goes from bad to worse.

 

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