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Published Date: 11 October 2008
John McCain's running mate Sarah Palin unlawfully abused her power as Alaska's governor by trying to have her former brother-in-law fired as a state trooper, US officials said.
Stephen Branchflower, the chief investigator of an Alaska legislative panel, found Mrs Palin in violation of a state ethics law that prohibits public officials from using their office for personal gain.
The politically charged inquiry imperilled her
reputation as a reformer on the Republican presidential ticket.

The inquiry looked into the so-called Troopergate scandal, the dismissal of Alaska's public safety commissioner Walter Monegan who allegedly refused to fire Mrs Palin's brother-in-law Mike Wooten, an Alaskan state trooper, following a messy divorce from her sister.
Mrs Palin has said Mr Monegan was fired as part of a legitimate budget dispute.

The panel found Mrs Palin let the family grudge influence her decision-making even if it was not the sole reason Mr Monegan was dismissed.

"I feel vindicated," Mr Monegan said.

"It sounds like they've validated my belief and opinions. And that tells me I'm not totally out in left field."

Mr Branchflower said the Republican vice presidential nominee violated a statute of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act.

Mrs Palin and Mr McCain's supporters had hoped the inquiry's finding would be delayed until after the presidential election on November 4 to spare her any embarrassment and to put aside an enduring distraction in an uphill contest against their Democratic rival Barack Obama.

But the bipartisan panel voted to release the report late last night, but not without dissent.

Alaska senator Gary Stevens, a Republican member of the panel, said: "I think there are some problems in this report.

"I would encourage people to be very cautious, to look at this with a jaundiced eye."

The nearly 300-page report did not recommend sanctions or a criminal investigation.



The full article contains 314 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 11 October 2008 10:19 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: US elections
 
1

D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

11/10/2008 10:53:53

Between her ignorance of the workings of the world and her willful abuse of power, just look at all the good she could do for us in the USA !

We don't have enough trouble, eh ?
2

britfreee,

camelon 11/10/2008 10:59:54
Hell hath no fury...

That Barack Hussein Obama would abuse privilege (for personal reasons) at the state level must surely set alarm bells ringing for the supporters of that man.

Tony Rezco corrupt deal on his house

Acorn corrupt voter fraud back when he was a State Senator and now.

Launching his political career from the home of William Ayers the unrepentant terrorist.



3

britfreee,

camelon 11/10/2008 11:04:22
Barack Obama has been good friends with Antoin ("Tony") Rezko since at least 1990. Barack interviewed with Rezko for a job in the early 1990s (offered, but declined), and has raised at least $150,000 for Obama's campaigns. Prosecutors charge that at least $10,000 of the money Rezko gave Obama was extorted in return for political favors by a different politician. In return, Barack arranged an internship in 2005 for John Aramanda, the son of a Rezko business associate (Joseph Aramanda, who himself gave Barack $11,500.)

There's more. In June, 2005, Obama bought a house in Chicago for $1.65 million ($300,000 below the asking price). The same day, Rezko bought (in his wife's name) the vacant lot next door for $625,000, the full price asked. Seven months later, Rezko sold Barack a slice (1/6th) of his lot so the Obamas could have a bigger yard. There's no evidence that Rezko bought the vacant land for any other reason than to do Obama a favor. The seller would only sell the house if he could sell the lot on the same day. And the lot is only accessible through Obama's yard. Rezko and his wife sold the lot last year to someone they owed money to, and let that person keep the small profit he made.

Here's the real problem: among other problems, Rezko was convicted in a federal government corruption case for demanding kickbacks from companies wanting to do business with Illinois Governor Blagojevich, another politician that Rezko has befriended and donated to. (Rezko is also under indictment for shaking down a Hollywood producer for $1.5 million in campaign contributions for Blagojevich. The guy takes care of his political friends.) In fact, Joseph Aramanda is an unindicted co-conspirator in one of the kickback cases.

4

Jason,

Japan 11/10/2008 11:04:27
"Abuse of power": Perfect background for one seeking high office in the United States. How do you know when a politician is lying? Something about the mouth being open.
5

D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

11/10/2008 11:05:51

McCain had better keep a close eye on the angry crowds he is whipping up - they're about to turn on HIM !

#3 A hopeless argument, friend -


6

britfreee,

camelon 11/10/2008 11:13:05
Hanging Out with Radical 60s Bomber

Bill Ayers, the son of a rich utility executive, calls himself a "small-C communist." In 1969, he and his wife Bernadette Dohrn helped found the Weathermen (aka the Weather Underground), a radical group that bombed several buildings, killing a police officer and three of their own members. In 1981, an armed robbery of a Brinks truck by Weather Underground members killed two police and a security guard.

By then Ayers and Dohrn has morphed into reasonably respectable radical professors in Chicago, and weren't involved. But Ayers has no regrets; in 2001 he even wrote "I don't regret settings bombs. I feel we didn't do enough." Ayers and Dohrn were never convicted because of illegal wiretaps and other prosecutorial misconduct that got their charges thrown out.

Great scandal, huh? Only problem is that Ayers' links to Obama are not that clear because the press never pursued the links and still want the Obama coronation in November.

Ayers & Obama live 3 blocks apart in Chicago's wealthy Hyde Park neighborhood, and their kids go to the same school. In 1995, they were both on the board of a charity founded by Walter Annenberg, the billionaire founder of Reader's Digest. From 2000 to 2002 they were on another board together (the Woods Foundation). Obama praised one of Ayers' many books, in a 1997 newspaper interview. Ayers donated $200 to Obama's 2001 campaign. The biggest link was in 1995, when Ayers and Dohrn hosted a coffee fundraiser, at which State Senator Alice Palmer introduced Obama as her chosen successor as state senator. Obama certainly had no problem with that hosting in the home of the terrorist Ayers.
7

D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

11/10/2008 11:14:56

Quote from Republican Frank Schaeffer:

"John McCain: If your campaign does not stop equating Sen. Barack Obama with terrorism, questioning his patriotism and portraying Mr. Obama as "not one of us," I accuse you of deliberately feeding the most unhinged elements of our society the red meat of hate, and therefore of potentially instigating violence."

"Stop! Think! Your rallies are beginning to look, sound, feel and smell like lynch mobs."

"John McCain, you're walking a perilous line. If you do not stand up for all that is good in America and declare that Senator Obama is a patriot, fit for office, and denounce your hate-filled supporters when they scream out "Terrorist" or "Kill him," history will hold you responsible for all that follows."

"John McCain and Sarah Palin, you are playing with fire, and you know it. You are unleashing the monster of American hatred and prejudice, to the peril of all of us. You are doing this in wartime. You are doing this as our economy collapses. You are doing this in a country with a history of assassinations."

8

britfreee,

camelon 11/10/2008 11:15:17
#7

Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned. Or a socialist troll for that matter judging by your subsequent comments
9

D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

11/10/2008 11:23:50

The link to the above-mentioned Frank Shaeffer article re: McCain's "hate-rallies:"

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bal-op.mccain10oct10,0,7557571.story

#8- Old news - You don't like Obama ? Don't vote for him ! It's the domestic terrorists in the Bush administration and our banking system that should more concern us -
10

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11/10/2008 11:37:34
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11/10/2008 11:43:39
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D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

11/10/2008 11:45:40

The "Christian Right" needs to have a cold, hard look at itself in the USA, if these McCain "lynch mobs"
are any indication of Republican "core values."

This is some very ugly stuff -
13

Postmark-55,

China, 11/10/2008 11:46:18
Surprise, surprise, surprise.
The bimbo is guilty.
Maybe the witch doctor can help her out on this one eh?
And to think that they wanted to stifle this until after the election.
Says a lot about her character.
Watch Lynne come out and defend her though, as will Carolyn 1 and probably Sandi. And who's that other bimbo? That ScotLMJ or something like that, they will all come out and defend their bimbo heroine.
14

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11/10/2008 11:51:45
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11/10/2008 11:59:36
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11/10/2008 12:00:52
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11/10/2008 12:06:49
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18

D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

11/10/2008 12:08:43
I think that we will be hearing from many livid stock-market shareholders today, venting their anger at Obama, the "socialists," Pelosi, the evil Democrats,
the 'commies," the gays, Jews, "forners," stoned-out youth, age, male disfunction, hemorrhoids, jock-itch and the like.

#19 - ALL of our politicians seemed to have turned a blind eye to this mess, as there was too much money to be made by all concerned. A free-market bonanza for the wealthy !


19

Browards,

11/10/2008 12:11:20
#23

It's amazing when the Dems mess up "Its everyones fault"
20

D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

11/10/2008 12:19:45

I personally blame the entire Bush administration for a complete lack of oversight, leadership and openness that might have averted a senseless war, an out-of-control economic system and a financial collapse.

The man never communicated anything until it was too late to turn back -

21

Media 1,

cape town 11/10/2008 12:27:26
Focussing on Palin and McCains past is simply idiotic - The only thing that matters is the PARTY for which you vote.

And the current ruling party is guilty of destroying the ecomony and for fighting an illegal war that they instigated.

They are also guilty of NOT going after Osama Bin Laden and this is a drum that I will keep on beating. George Bush slapped the American people in the face and went after Saddam following 9/11 - and as a result the Amercian economy has suffered, thousands of innocent life has been lost and Osama Bin Laden is still out there - SO TELL ME AGAIN, who is winning this battle against terror?

Bin Laden is out there because Bush doesnt want him, so why doesnt he want him? Is it because Bin Laden is a secret agent on the pay roll of the oval office? If not, then what? But dont tell us its because they cant find him, that is total hogwash.
22

2dogs in D.C.,

11/10/2008 13:07:31
Nah, that
was not our Sarah. It was Tina Fey.
23

Richardinho,

11/10/2008 13:32:01
I find the 'illegally killing a moose' bit pretty hilarious.
24

Pilrig,

Livingston 11/10/2008 13:48:04
Librarians of the world, celebrate !
25

Pilrig,

Livingston 11/10/2008 13:50:28
The Bush administration has stolen the economic policies of the Militant Tendency.
26

Postmark-55,

China, 11/10/2008 13:52:30
#18 bill2,
Yeah Billy boy, I do know that human rights abuses are a thing of the past in China, our present government is doing all it can to improve the lives of our citizens, and also up til now our economy is still sound too, can't be said for yours though can it?
That's the beauty of having a Communist government, they are in charge of the banks, not private firms like in your country who will rob you blind than have you bail them out. Democracy sure is a great system eh? You get to vote yet your vote means absolutely nothing, nothing at all.
27

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11/10/2008 13:57:47
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D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

11/10/2008 14:18:23

Fascinating that Bush now has a - 70% DISAPPROVAL - rating ( Gallup Poll) yet Obama struggles to eke out a 5 or 6 point popular vote lead. Racial fear, anyone ?

How difficult could it be for a black man to run for
president of a prior slave-owning country that fears
blacks and foreigners ? How about a black man with a foreign-sounding name ?

What would the numbers look like if Obama were white?

Half of us would rather vote for a failing, geriatric, brain-damaged POW and a hockey-puck VP than an intelligent, pragmatic, steady-under-pressure black candidate !

Fear, Hatred and Ignorance - it's what Rush, Coulter, Savage, etc. make their millions on. Pitiful !

"Mega-dittos" to the fearful, mindless hoards of McCain lynch-mobs !

Some honest soul-searching is needed here -
29

D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

11/10/2008 14:26:50

As for Sarah Palin's difficulties, let the above-mentioned ladies from their geriatric free-tuition/community college classes deal with her in their own way. No matter !

Their quotes originating from "World Net Daily" are becoming irrelevant and tedious, in any case.
The electoral vote projections make it impossible for McCain to win, as anyone can clearly see.

30

Laurette,

Carlsbad, California 11/10/2008 14:32:47
Rezko also was friendly with Obama — offering him a job
when he finished law school, funding his earliest political campaigns and purchasing a lot next to his house. But based on the known facts, charges so far and testimony at Rezko's trial, there's no indication there'll be an October surprise that could hurt the Democratic presidential nominee — even though Rezko says prosecutors are pressing him for dirt about Obama.

"I think this strikes fear into the Blagojevich administration and the Statehouse Democrats but not into the Obama campaign," says state Sen. Kirk Dillard, R-Westmont, a John McCain delegate to the GOP convention.

#4 I don't think you're going to get very far with this one as Rezko is singing like Abramoff - but nothing on Obama - Nice Try Though!
31

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11/10/2008 14:37:59
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Laurette,

Carlsbad, California 11/10/2008 14:42:43
#8 I find it strange that the so called "Liberal" press
ignores McCain's ties to G Gordon Liddy - calling him a "Dear Friend" and appearing on his radio show, since Liddy does have something of a nasty past.
Liddy served four and a half years in prison in connection with his conviction for his role in the Watergate break-in and the break-in at the office of the psychiatrist of Daniel Ellsberg, the military analyst who leaked the Pentagon Papers. Liddy has acknowledged preparing to kill someone during the Ellsberg break-in "if necessary"; plotting to murder journalist Jack Anderson; plotting with a "gangland figure" to murder Howard Hunt to stop him from cooperating with investigators; plotting to firebomb the Brookings Institution; and plotting to kidnap "leftist guerillas" at the 1972 Republican National Convention -- a plan he outlined to the Nixon administration using terminology borrowed from the Nazis. (The murder, firebombing, and kidnapping plots were never carried out; the break-ins were.) During the 1990s, Liddy reportedly instructed his radio audience on multiple occasions on how to shoot Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms agents and also reportedly said he had named his shooting targets after Bill and Hillary Clinton.
33

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 11/10/2008 14:52:43
Google "McCain and the Mafia"
34

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11/10/2008 14:57:33
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11/10/2008 15:17:42
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11/10/2008 15:44:33
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Carolyn 1,

11/10/2008 16:18:14
Or this one:

http://hillbuzz.wordpress.com/2008/10/10/urgent-big-story-about-to-break-we-are-one-step-closer-to-rezko-giving-obama-up-to-federal-prosecutors/
38

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 11/10/2008 16:25:01
britfree

You are full of it and a deluded troll.

That Palin woman is trailer trash and dumb as a doorknob.

I can hardly wait to see "Saturday Night Live" tonight when she is parodied and skewered by that talented actress who mocks her.

That Palin bitch has no ethics, morals, sense of fair play, morality,or common sense.

But then ALL Republicans are like that and George W. BabyBush is the worst of the lot.
39

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11/10/2008 16:32:33
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40

Carolyn 1,

11/10/2008 16:42:51
The report is compiled by ONE person based on testimony from people he allowed to testify;
(many were not allowed to testify- such as Palin's chief of staff)
If he allowed all testimony the report would be credible. However, until the Alaska legislature reviews it, it's a politicized REPORT, not a ruling.

Because it is politically damaging, perhaps intentionally, the legislature needs to be called for a immediate session and a ruling.

If guilty Palin should be sanctioned accordingly.

What's contentious to lawyers, and the actual law, is that #1 and #2 are not compatible conclusions


Finding Number One

For the reasons explained in section IV of this report, I find that Governor Sarah Palin abused her power by violating Alaska Statute 39.52.110(a) of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act. Alaska Statute 39.52.110(a) provides

The legislature reaffirms that each public officer holds office as a public trust, and any effort to benefit a personal or financial interest through official action is a violation of that trust.

Finding Number Two

I find that, although Walt Monegan’s refusal to fire Trooper Michael Wooten was not the sole reason he was fired by Governor Sarah Palin, it was likely a contributing factor to his termination as Commissioner of Public Safety. In spite of that, Governor Palin’s firing of Commissioner Monegan was a proper and lawful exercise of her constitutional and statutory authority to hire and fire executive branch department heads.
41

SouthernGent,

11/10/2008 16:43:46
#25 and 26

So you two are saying that the democrats and Fannie and Freddie had nothing to do with the financial meltdown? You may want to educate yourselves on it instead of posting political talking points.

#33
"Fascinating that Bush now has a - 70% DISAPPROVAL - rating ( Gallup Poll) yet Obama struggles to eke out a 5 or 6 point popular vote lead. Racial fear, anyone ?"

Might it have something to do with the FACT that the Democratically controlled Congress has an even LOWER approval rating, since after all Obama is a DEMOCRAT.
42

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11/10/2008 16:49:00
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11/10/2008 16:53:24
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Carolyn 1,

11/10/2008 16:56:15
@47 Good Morning!

Sorry, but I have that day job. Then all those legislative financial matters I decided to work on. You know 40 50 60 hours a week. Holidays. Family. Working on state budget matters, trying to write a new tax code in a few days for Massachusetts. Question One to get rid of state income tax. Want a bumper sticker? Hell Yes!
How about you?
Worked on anything that made a difference lately?

In crunch time, I don't have enough recreational time to argue with commenters who do have time to argue but never have time to learn, research or work or offer solutions...


45

Laurette,

Carlsbad, California 11/10/2008 16:59:22
#40 Could you be a bit more specific. Tks
46

Carolyn 1,

11/10/2008 17:03:00

http://www.cltg.org/Q1_Repeal/q1_clt_bs.pdf

It's red!!
47

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11/10/2008 17:05:12
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Carolyn 1,

11/10/2008 17:09:29
51
Postmark-55, China


Ooops, my error.
I thought you could read-
I guess that comment at 48 was too long for you.
Here's the cliff note version of my opinion:

"If guilty Palin should be sanctioned accordingly.

What's contentious to lawyers, and the actual law, is that #1 and #2 are not compatible conclusions"

(In other words she's guilty of being not guilty.)



Have fun throwing meat to each other, my lunch time is over and I've got real work to do.
49

James Donald,

Newbridge 11/10/2008 17:09:32
#31 Postmark-55,Red China - "I do know that human rights abuses are a thing of the past in China" - Very much a minority view, mainly because it is b**llocks.
The "beauty of having a Communist government" is that you can shoot your mistakes and "re-educate them through (slave) labour". The Government controls everything (directly or indirectly) yet it refuses to shoulder the blame in the poison milk scandal. The workers' paradise is far more corrupt than any government in Europe.
50

D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

11/10/2008 17:13:31

I think that this might very well be one of our Sarah Palin supporters from the above posts. I followed her link and saw this on the site:

http://hillbuzz.wordpress.com/coffee-club/

Not exactly a credible news source -
51

Sandi,

San Diego 11/10/2008 17:13:33
#8,

The Ayers kids and the Obama kids may attend the same school, but not at the same time. Ayers' kids are a lot older than Obama's.

the commission that was put toghether to "investigate" palin was composed of her Democratic poleitcal enemies and her Republican political enemies. The chairman supports Obama. Good setting for a fair result, huh? I don't think so. Even with all thos people desperate to take her down, the best they could come up with was "unethical". The trooper in question, Wooten, her former brother-in-law, had been investigatesd before Palin was ever elected governor. For some unknown reason, he was not fired then. Is it customary in Scotland to retain police officers who are guilty of drinking and driving? Who are found to be drinking while driving a police vehicle, even if they are off-duty? I know it's not becasue my brother-in-law is a police officer in Scotland. Before you even get to to the tasering of his step-son and the threat against the life of Palin's father, the trooper's former father-in-law (for daring to say that he would pay for a lwyer for his daughter in the divorce), this man is unfit to wear a uniform and a badge and carry a weapon. But none of that matters, because nobody was fired. This stellar officer is still an Alaskan trooper.

The other person involved, Moneghan, is a political appointee of Palin's. As such, she has the legal and constitutional right to fire him at will. No reason required. And yet, she did not fire him. She offered him a transfer to another position with equal pay and he turned it down. Then he quit.

The entire "investigation" was political.
52

Carolyn 1,

11/10/2008 17:25:55
46
Cutty Sark,

I see your level of reading intelligence matches Postmark.
Are all communists 'reading-challenged'?

Please note that's communist with a lower case 'c' as William Ayers likes to point out.
53

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11/10/2008 17:26:16
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54

Sandi,

San Diego 11/10/2008 17:26:19
Now to go on to those McCain rallies, where ONE (1) person says something outrageous and the Obmamedia and Obamabots start a campaign against these "dangerous" people, and the stirring up of whatever. Amazingly, at political rallies, candidates try to stir up support for themselves and opposition to their oopponents. Even more amazingly, Obama is a master at doing that, and it's fine when he does it, but not so fine when it's against him. Nothing that either McCain or Palin have said about Obama is false, but The One doesn't like it.

What a load of hooey.

What this means is that the Obama campaign's internal polling is not showing that Obama is going to win, and they need to increase their demonization of McCain and Palin. They are desperate to make any more talk about Ayers go away, because it's very bad for Obama. It's true, but bad for Obama, which is why he has repeatedly lied and changed his story about how well he knows Ayers.
55

Sandi,

San Diego 11/10/2008 17:28:22
#61,

I'm glad you accept that it was political. To me, that makes the entire thing suspect, including the result.
56

2dogs in D.C.,

11/10/2008 17:33:31
"Rootin' tootin' moose shootin." -Damn, that's good.
57

Sandi,

San Diego 11/10/2008 17:59:35
What I find laughable is the idea the the McCain/Palin campaign should confine itself to the issues. Since the day Palin became the VP candidate, every kind of insult and profanity you can imagine have been applied to her and her family. Almost all of that was initiated by David Axelrod, Obama's campaign manager, using a firm in Chicago that specializes in that kind of trash. There's some on this thread, and I don't see any complaints about that, only when Obama is being called names.

IMO, Obama and his campaign have used racism to his benefit during this campaign. He used it in N. Carolina before the primary, he used it against, the Clintons, he pulls it out when he "pre-empts" an anticipated attack, when he talks about his "strange name" and tells his followers at rallies that "they're going to say he looks different". (Nobody has even suggested that). That is racism and it comes from Obama. Nobody else has used that, not one of his opponents in either the primary or now in the general. Obama uses it to deflect attention from his many legitimate failings.

Obama himself told his followers to "get in their faces" to try to change voters' minds to support him. He himself said, and I paraphrase, that if they use a knife, he'll use a gun. All this incendiary talk is seemingly just fine when it comes from Obama's mouth.
58

2dogs in D.C.,

11/10/2008 18:09:16
Sandy-Forgive me,but weren't you once a Hillary supporter? If so, seems a far leap from Mrs.Clintons beliefs to the whole McCain/Palin thing. Just asking.
59

Sandi,

San Diego 11/10/2008 18:36:03
#70,2dogs in D.C

I'm still a Hillary supporter and there are still millions of her supporters who think as I do. They will either not vote at all, vote for a third party candidate, or vote for McCain.

I've explained here before that I am not an extreme left-wing person. Obama is. I'm definitely in the middle and so I agree with elements of both sides. McCain has always been middle-of-the-road, despite the Obama campaign's efforts to paint him as another four years of Bush. That is why he was the Republican the DNC most feared as the candidate. Palin, though I think I'd really enjoy her company, is too right-wing for me. But that's why she's there, to pull in the right wing who weren't sure about McCain. I agree with those who say that Palin would not have been in the picture if Hillary was in the picture.

#71 Cutty Sark,

IMO, Obama has set race relations back in this country by his continual use of race in his campaign. It is very sad.

Also IMO, much of the "negative camoaigning" currently coming from the McCain camp would not have been necessary had the media done their job a year ago and found out about Obama's background and informed us all. None of the stuff that is slowly coming out now about Ayers, Rezko, etc. etc. is new. It's been out there for years, but the media is so determined that Obama should be elected that they have refused to do their job and report the truth and inform the electorate. The last time the media did this was in 2000 and look what happened then!
60

Sandi,

San Diego 11/10/2008 18:37:44
"much of the "negative campaigning" currently coming from the McCain camp would have been necessary had the media done their job a year ago"
61

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 11/10/2008 18:49:18
Sarah Palin has a right to pick her team. If she felt this guy was not in the right position he should have tendered his resignation. All cabinets do that when a new person comes into office. She could have left him or moved him. It is her right. She could also fire him..that is also her right. (or anyone else in that position in gov't.)
He did not want to change position.. Surprise. This is the October surprise!!!
But, this is also political garbage at it's worst. She has not broken any laws, and her husband wanted to protect his family .
All I can say he Sarah doesn't hang around with convicted felons, and terrorists, who are not in jail becaue of a techinicality.

Think about this: IF Obama were applying for any gov't job of high position, he would be throughly investigated, and would not be hired because he is and was involved with Rezko, Ayers, and Wright.
#56
Sarah Palin, I haven't been around because I just got a new computer, and had to get that together.. old one had a motherboard problem... it fried!!!

Problem now solved..
62

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 11/10/2008 18:51:45
Well, you Canadians, Americans know where you got that idea of trailer trash from... the same woman who we called a PIG for printing her throughly disgusting diatribe in a state-run, or country-run paper..on your tax dollars.
AND SHE IS A PIG.

63

Sandi,

San Diego 11/10/2008 18:52:48
Oh dear...I try to fix something and make it worse! please ignore the meaningless #73. I left out the "not".
64

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 11/10/2008 18:53:41
Mark my words, anything bad said about BO, is now going to be considered RACIST. But, then, again, he is the only one bringing it up!!! He and his campaign group.
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11/10/2008 19:27:23
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66

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 11/10/2008 19:29:51
The media has had a love fest with Obama since day one. They didn't care who was thrown under the bus.
67

sandy,

Land of the free, home of the brave 11/10/2008 19:30:24
From the article:

'The nearly 300-page report did not recommend sanctions or a criminal investigation.'

This is nothing but a political ploy before the election to give a special friend of a terrorist a boost...Nothing more-nothing less...

68

,

11/10/2008 19:31:14
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69

sandy,

Land of the free, home of the brave 11/10/2008 19:34:23
#71, Race is brought up by the dems-only the dems and they can't get it off the ground because the American people aren't buying it anymore....

Also, the Republican party loves that Palin was chosen...
70

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 11/10/2008 19:37:08
here is a link following that shows a lot of info questioning about a home the Palins own. A pattern is occurring that construction contractors make donations to Palin campaigns, make special deals with the Palins and then are rewarded with large contracts from the state. and then the contractors built the Palins home.

http://the-peoples-forum.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5676
71

sandy,

land of the free, home of the brave 11/10/2008 19:52:52
#87...Cutty Sark

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122212856075765367.html

all the connection needed to t=link the two..Obama & ayers:o)
72

sandy,

11/10/2008 19:53:36
OOPS!..Meant for 86
73

sandy,

11/10/2008 19:59:00
#87... No but i will..Just gettin caught up and off soon..
74

Sandi,

San Diego 11/10/2008 20:00:01
#83, cutty Sark,

Obama is extremely left wing by our standards and just 'left wing" by yours! LOL!

All the people who acted as his mentors while he was growing up were communist-his mother, his grandfather, and Frank Marshall Davis whom his grandfather picked as a role model for the young Barry in Hawaii.

His friend Ayers (the terrorist referred to by Sandy #80) is socialist-which is a very bad word here in the Land of the Free! It's unlikely that Ayers would have hired Obama as the president of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge had Obama not shared Ayers' political views.

Just FYI although I don't think it's of any importance myself, but it's kind of interesting, the "Arab" thing comes from Obama's father's heritage. His father's family apparently is mostly of Arab heritage and only a small part African. Obama's names, Barack and Obama are Arab.

Obama has made a cottage industry out of keeping his past secret and inventing it as he wrote his book. If he had been open and honest from the beginning, or even now, much of this could have, maybe would have, been avoided.
75

2dogs in D.C.,

11/10/2008 20:16:12
Sandy-I respect your choice, so please vote on Nov 5th.
76

2dogs in D.C.,

11/10/2008 20:18:50
Wally-would you happen to have a link to your link?
77

Taz,

The Land of the Free. 11/10/2008 20:31:05
She can abuse me anytime she feels like it.
78

sandy,

11/10/2008 20:37:12
#94 Cutty Sark

Yes i had heard of a similar school years ago in the northeast somewhere....Interesting concept but i don't think they get the discipline they need..

I didn't make the connection of Obama to Palin....:o))
79

sandy,

11/10/2008 20:38:55
92, 2dogs

If it is I you are referring to; thanks, i intend on voting..Always have always will:)
80

sandy,

11/10/2008 20:51:25
Good going Mr Sark!!
81

Wally,

By The Rivers of Babylon (USA) 11/10/2008 21:02:48
2 dogs in 93:

yes, the link I put into #85 does work. and at that link there are several embedded links to different sources.

82

Laurette,

Carlsbad, California 11/10/2008 21:31:38
#74 Lynne:All I can say he Sarah doesn't hang around with convicted felons, and terrorists, who are not in jail becaue of a techinicality.

But John McCain calls G Gordon Liddy,who spent 4 yrs in jail because of his involvement in Watergate, a dear friend and has an ongoing relationship with him.
83

Laurette,

Carlsbad, California 11/10/2008 21:44:14
#22 Bill: FYI on the poor moose

In 2003, Wooten, his wife and a friend were moose hunting. Upon spotting a moose, Wooten instructed his wife to shoot the moose since she had the permit, she refused so Wooten did.
After carting the moose back to town, Sarah's father actually butchered it in his garage, and Wooten shared the meat with both Sarah and Todd Palin as well as her parents. Two years later, during the divorce battle, the family filed a complaint alleging that Wooten had taken that moose illegally. At least they waited until they finished the meat to file the complaint against Wooten.


84

sandy,

11/10/2008 21:47:27
# 107..Laurette, do you have a link for that??
85

Carolyn 1,

11/10/2008 22:14:01
Gee Sandy,
-just think, if you bunch of hypocrites allowed free speech at The Animal Farm, you wouldn't have to spend three hours talking to yourself on The Scotsman....are you lonely and looking for friends? No new recruits? Not even Rob-Racsist-Bandido?
Ahhh, that's so sad :((


86

Virginian,

USA 11/10/2008 22:25:53
#105 Wally

Have you heard Ron Paul's comment that the G-7 conference is apt to make one huge central world bank?

Plus, he thinks the "bail out" is stupid since the private sector and the market needs to correct itself.

As far as McCain and Palin...they are perfect examples of why decent people seldom want to get involved in running for offices today because of all the abuse and slander from the powerseeking political hacks.

The "special interests" that concerned Thomas Jefferson and other US Founders are growing like mushrooms the more diverse and divided the nation becomes.

Perhaps it is time for another American Revolution based on what the US Constitution actually says.


87

,

11/10/2008 22:36:43
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88

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 11/10/2008 22:37:36
Laurette.. as I said before, Ayers is not in jail because of an illegal wiretap. He has admitted his role in the Weather Underground.. he has no remorse..and he is sorry he didn't do more bombings.
As far as the group to change education..most of the money was spent giving to other groups to RADICALIZE education. That is Ayers word.. remember it...RADICALIZE. Along with Rev. Wright is spiritual mentor, and Rezko, who got him a sweetheart deal on a mortgage, that he is now going to jail for..
these are the people, with such sterling reputations that Obama has thrown under the bus.
Are you going to sit there and tell everyone, you can sit in a church for over 20 years and NOT hear what Wright had to say, are you going to sit there and tell everyone that Obama NEVER found out about the man who hired him for his first job, and are you going to sit and there and tell everyone Obama did not know that Rezko had a troubled background, and that he didn't know his mortgage was a sweetheart deal? And say it with a straight face?
You didn't know that over $8 hundred thousand dollars has gone to ACORN group.. to register people to vote? Sometimes 50 or 60 times, the same person?
They have registered the dead, felons, and a the lineup of an American football team, among other names?
89

Richardinho,

11/10/2008 22:55:20
What the Weathermen got up to was pretty innocent schoolboy stuff. They never actually killed anyone, albeit they caused a lot of criminal damage. In any case the link with Obama is pretty tangential. You expect someone to take the blame for the actions of everyone they've ever had dealings with. That's just silly.
90

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 11/10/2008 23:27:59
#113...your wrong... if Obama was applying for a job in the gov't, he would be turned down after the investigation. His 1st job was with Bill Ayers, he sat on the board of directors with him, his connection to ACORn isn't distant either.. he was an attorney for them, he was a trainer for them, and Rezko!!! The guy is in jail or going to jail... and we all know about Rev. Write and the Trinity Church, and Black Liveration Theocracy..
So, there is a deep connection to all these acquaintances and he would be DENIED a gov't job.

He didn't just have dealings with them, he was a part of their projects.
91

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 11/10/2008 23:53:17
#112 Lynne "he is sorry he didn't do more bombings. "

That's not true. Here's a quote from Ayers I posted in response to a similar accusation from Sandi.

"The one thing I don't regret is opposing the war in Vietnam with every ounce of my being.... When I say, 'We didn't do enough,' a lot of people rush to think, 'That must mean, "We didn't bomb enough sh*t."' But that's not the point at all. It's not a tactical statement, it's an obvious political and ethical statement. In this context, 'we' means 'everyone.'
92

Sandi,

San Diego 12/10/2008 00:19:02
#96 cutty Sark,

No, the derivation of his names makes no difference at all. The only question is where exactly he was born. Supposedly, it was in Hawaii, but some people have questioned that and a law suit has been filed. I really didn't apay a lot of attention to that until Obama and the DNC failed to just produce evidence of where he was born and instead asked for the case to be dismissed. Now I wonder why he can't just pull out his legal birth certificate and say here, I was born in this place, in this hospital. I'll bet any person posting on this thread could do that, so why not Obama? As with all the other questions about him, it is his own actions that create them. The importance here is because to be eligible to be president, one has to have been born in the USA. Obama is clearly a citizen through his mother, regardless of where he was born, but he has to satisfy the birthplace requirement too. As I said, I don't understand why he can't or won't do that.

#114 Cutty Sark,

That article is typical of the msm. Everything is slanted towards Obama. These rallies are not like that, we see them on television, you can watch most of them live on the web. This article gives the impression that the entire audience is virtually foaming at the mouth with everyone yelling and screaming. Nothing could be further from the truth. There are, literally, one or two people who yell things out. You get that at Obama rallies too. Many, many people are angry because all the information, including political polling, is twisted to favor Obama. Not to mention, that people who don't support Obama are sick to death of being called racist. I can't tell you how many times I have been called that. It is just very sad.

The Obama crowd keep talking about "guilt by asociation" as though others are accusing Obama of terrorist act like Ayers'. That is not so, Obama's problem with his friendship with Ayers is judgement and lying: bad judgement to maintain it and then he lied about it.
93

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 12/10/2008 00:21:16
#115 Lynne

"if Obama was applying for a job in the gov't, he would be turned down"

I suggest that your posts spewing hatred of your future president will put any potential government job you may consider out of the question.
94

Virginian,

USA 12/10/2008 00:21:58
#116 Selgovae, Scottish Borders

Quote of Ayers:

"The one thing I don't regret is opposing the war in Vietnam with every ounce of my being..."

Answer:

What Ayers was saying is that he felt justified in using violent means to overthrow the US government because he did not agree with the war in Vietnam.

Therefore, Ayers is an anarchist who espouses the violent overthrow of the government. Any excuse will do.

Ayers was not an elected official who represented the people of the US.

What happens if every US citizen who disagrees with a law or with a decision of Congress uses violence to effect change?

Ayers committed treason and should have been executed at a public hanging.

Instead he is walking around free and is a "professor" viewed as a hero for his anarchist preaching and actions.

Rather than being a hero, Ayers is one of the cowards who slandered and abused the true heroes who fought in Vietnam.

Why would Obama be Ayers' associate unless Obama agreed with or found nothing wrong with Ayers' views?

95

Sandi,

San Diego 12/10/2008 00:28:53
#116, Selgovae,

Did you ever post a link for that quote?

Here's the interview Ayers gave the NY Times, which was published on September 11, 2001 and in which he said,

''I don't regret setting bombs,'' Bill Ayers said. ''I feel we didn't do enough.''

http://preview.tinyurl.com/4tb7wd

In that context, it is logical to think that "we didn't do enough" refers to bombs.
96

Richardinho,

12/10/2008 00:34:55
'his connection to ACORn isn't distant either.. he was an attorney for them'

ok, so now lawyers are responsible for the crimes of their clients?
97

Sandi,

San Diego 12/10/2008 00:37:18
#121,

And he conducted training sessions for them and his campaign paid one of the ACORN associations $800,000 to register voters. He is so tied into ACORN that the FBI is investigating for RICO in ten different states.
98

Virginian,

USA 12/10/2008 00:48:10
#117 Sandi, San Diego

You are exactly correct about the fact that Obama has not been able to produce his "vault" birth certificate proving that he is a native-born US citizen.

Everyone born in the US has to provide this birth certificate just to get a Social Security card or a driver's permit.

The bureau of vital statistics of the State of Hawaii would have had that record if it existed and it takes little effort to retrieve it.



The campaign should be stopped if Obama cannot produce the birth certificate through the official records of Hawaii.

All the patched up history of Obama could start unraveling pronto!!!

Guess the State of Hawaii would be "racist" if they couldn't come up with the missing Obama birth certificate.

Let's watch in "shock and awe" as the news media go into overdrive to explain away this little item.

If Obama is disqualified because he is not a native-born citizen, what will the Democrats do?

Perhaps McCain and Palin would win because there is no opposing candidate although Biden would probably fill in for Obama before the election.

What an election to remember!!!
99

Richardinho,

12/10/2008 00:48:24
yeah, it's really shocking to register voters.
100

Richardinho,

12/10/2008 00:50:56
'Everyone born in the US has to provide this birth certificate just to get a Social Security card or a driver's permit. '

So how did Obama get his driver's permit then?
101

Virginian,

USA 12/10/2008 01:16:37
The sad news about all the charges of "racism" coming from the Obama camp is that it is the Democrats who wanted to pull in the black vote that they couldn't count on unless they had the first "black" candidate.

If Colin Powell had been willing to run for President or VicePresident on the Republican ticket he would have had the support of a vast majority.

However, Powell did not want to put up with the abuse and slander that mar US politics, so he was never a candidate.

Colin Powell is a military hero and is a trusted and honorable man respected by all.

Obama is none of the above...which is why he has so much opposition from well-informed US citizens.

This blatant anti-white racism is exemplified by the college thesis of Michelle Obama who characterized the white people of the US as being "irremedially" racist and beyond hope.

Michelle Obama's thesis explains her absurd comment that because her husband was a candidate for President was why she was proud of the US for the first time in her life.

Is it any wonder that the average white US citizen might not want to vote for Obama if they are told by his wife that whites are far too racist to do so?

Other well-documented racist comments have been spewed out by Obama's so-called Christian minister Wright.

The only racist rantings have come from Obama's side as a means to capture the black vote...hardly a worthy motive for choosing Obama.
102

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 12/10/2008 01:24:27
#126

"Colin Powell is a military hero and is a trusted and honorable man respected by all".

After his performance at the UN claiming Iraq was crawling with WMD, you've got to be joking!
103

Richardinho,

12/10/2008 01:33:01
'The only racist rantings have come from Obama's side as a means to capture the black vote'

McCain describing Obama as 'that one' and his supporters calling him 'an Arab', and abusing a black journalist.
Why wouldn't black people feel they were the victims of racism in the USA? It's not that long ago you had an apartheid system in place. It would be something to be proud of for the US to elect a black man as president, aside from the fact that Obama will make a great president anyway.
And don't you dare imagine that the racism from some republican quarters only puts off black people.
104

Virginian,

USA 12/10/2008 01:49:13
#127 Let's have the truth,Queensland
Lhtt, you and Ayers are obviously fellow travelers in your anti-military anarchist leanings.

The point is that Colin Powell happens to be a black military hero who is decidedly not a racist...which makes him an acceptable candidate for President as opposed to Obama who is unacceptable.

The charge of anti-black racism if white citizens do not want to vote for Obama is nonsense if they would vote for Colin Powell who is also black.

Is the difference between the two men too subtle for you to grasp?
105

Richardinho,

12/10/2008 01:54:02
Colin Powell has stood for election? Must have missed that one.
106

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 12/10/2008 02:11:18
LHTT.. HE would not have gotten the job because he is a security risk. Like it or not, he would not have passed scutiny because of the people he is associated with and worked for.

Farrakan has called him THE ONE, The Messiah... and that should scare the beejeebees out of everyone.

107

Richardinho,

12/10/2008 02:15:09
So who cares what Farrakan has said? Anyone who is stupid enough to vote on that basis is probably incapable of finding their way to the polling station anyways.
108

Virginian,

USA 12/10/2008 02:16:00
#128 Richardinho

Richard, you've really lost it now!

There has never been a system of apartheid in the United States.

A domestic or plantation system existed before 1865 when black slavery was legal in the US. Whites and blacks lived and worked together rather than being rigidly separated.

Why would it be something to be proud of to have a black President? I thought that racism was taking note of the color of a person's skin rather than of their qualifications.

Are you saying that the reason Obama would make a great President is because he is black...while Colin Powell, who is also black, would not?

Or do you feel Colin Powell would also make a good President because he would be the first black President?

It appears that you are being racist in that you look at a candidate's skin color rather than their qualifications.

Could it be that racism, in your opinion, does not include being anti-white but only being anti-black?

I recall that Martin Luther King gave a speech about his dream of when a person would not be judged based on the color of their skin.

Maybe you should think long and hard what the word "racist" really means.
109

SouthernGent,

12/10/2008 02:16:29
#124
Especially when ACORN registers most of the Dallas Cowboys in the State of Neveda.

110

Richardinho,

12/10/2008 02:18:49
#133 'There has never been a system of apartheid in the United States. '

lol-yeah the slaves were well integrated.
111

Rob Bennett,

Point Piper Australia IMF Ranking 4th 12/10/2008 02:20:34
#81 Whitecaps,Vancouver, Cda
"Rob Bennett appears to be one of their pals faking his claim from being down under"
Where's the proof?
There is no proof, because you like the rest of the republican losers here are wrong.

#109 Carolyn 1
"Rob-Racsist-Bandido?"
I see Carolyn still manages to get her facts wrong as well as her spelling. Will this woman ever learn?

I've just been informed by a reliable source at the 'Scotsman' that Carolyn lodges more complaints about posters than anyone else on this site.

Palin for the scrapheap! How good is that?
112

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 12/10/2008 02:21:04
Nothing intelligent to say? A SECURITY RISK.. is being pushed on us for President.
Farrakan and the Nation of Islam backs him. A Terrorist backs him, a Convicted Felon backs him, a Group (ACORN) that has been out to steal the election for Democrats, and who has 37 convicted now in jail, and whose offices have been raided in Nevada, and Ohio, for registering felons, and dead people, and a 12 year old, and homeless (who were driven to different districts, paid, and reregisted up to 70 times)backs him, and the Rev. Wright, qith his Black Liberation Theocracy backs him.. Scary... I say.
113

Richardinho,

12/10/2008 02:21:31
#134 If you can have any proof of wrongdoing by Obama, please lets see it. We're familiar enough with the old republican technique of throwing enough mud to hope that some of it will stick.
114

SouthernGent,

12/10/2008 02:28:20
So the democrats commit fraud and its OK yet the republicans sling mud and its not. Strange philosophy.
115

Richardinho,

12/10/2008 02:30:52
Bit rich to hear the republicans complaining about electoral fraud. No, SG, I'm just asking you for some proof of wrong-doing by Obama, as opposed to the mud slinging which you've just admitted doing.
116

Rob Bennett,

Point Piper Australia IMF Ranking 4th 12/10/2008 02:33:20
John McCain to Sack Sarah Palin?

With his electoral prospects fading by the day, Senator John McCain has fallen out with his vice-presidential running mate about the direction of his White House campaign
McCain has become alarmed about the fury unleashed by Sarah Palin, the moose-hunting “pitbull in lipstick”, against Senator Barack Obama. Cries of “terrorist” and “kill him” have accompanied the tirades by the governor of Alaska against the Democratic nominee at Republican rallies.
Mark Salter, McCain’s long-serving chief of staff, is understood to have told campaign insiders that he would prefer his boss, a former Vietnam prisoner of war, to suffer an “honourable defeat” rather than conduct a campaign that would be out of character – and likely to lose him the election.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4926283.ece

The Palin ship has hit the Obama iceberg and is going down fast ya bunch of republican losers....

There's no prize for second place Carolyn
It's time for you and the other republican nitwits to head for the hills and join Bin Laden

Yee Ha........ Winners are Grinners
117

SouthernGent,

12/10/2008 02:45:53
Neither candidate has commited wrongdoing, but fraud that would benefit one of them is a federal offense.

Whats the old saying - Sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me.

Last I checked, name calling isn't against the law, but voter fraud sure is.
118

Richardinho,

12/10/2008 02:54:48
#142 you're right, it's not a crime to tell lies, so you can keep on doing it as much as you like.
119

SouthernGent,

12/10/2008 03:03:26
#143
Your so full of it you must be about to pop.
120

Richardinho,

12/10/2008 03:07:07
#144 there, there, don't get upset.
121

SouthernGent,

12/10/2008 03:09:09
You don't bother me. I feel for you as you don't know any better, but one day you will grow up, so don't give up hope.
122

SouthernGent,

12/10/2008 03:12:06
"it's not a crime to tell lies, so you can keep on doing it as much as you like."

You seem to post over and over for "proof", yet you have none of your own. Sounds a bit hypocritical.
123

Richardinho,

12/10/2008 03:23:28
#148 Oh dear, I've really touched a nerve asking you for proof for your mud slinging assertions of wrongdoing by Obama.
124

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 12/10/2008 03:24:10
You've had a fraud masquerading as president for the last 8 years. Why aren't you complaining about him?
125

,

12/10/2008 04:37:03
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126

SouthernGent,

12/10/2008 05:09:47
You seem to have a reading deficiency, as I have never "slung mud at Obama". Democrats - yes, Obama - no. Is that easier for you to comprehend.
127

Rob Bennett,

Point Piper Australia - God's Country 12/10/2008 08:00:42
Barack Obama continues to gallop ahead like a knight in shiny armour on his thoroughbred stallion leaving McCain, Palin and his decrepit bunch of republican losers dithering in the dust

#150 Vida Dosa
"riding your donkey"

Sorry Vida I forgot to include the Chorus last time around

Hey ho, away Vida goes, donkey riding donkey riding
Hey ho, with Carolyn in tow, riding on their donkeys

Hee-haw, Hee-haw

Vida Dosa the TROLL
128

Selgovae,

12/10/2008 08:03:16
#120 "Did you ever post a link for that quote?"

Yes.

See post #66 here:

http://news.scotsman.com/12007/Two-faces-from-the-past.4564020.jp

In the well-repeated quote in your link, how sure are you that the two phrases come from the same part of the interview?
129

,

12/10/2008 10:39:06
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,

12/10/2008 10:46:21
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,

12/10/2008 11:13:21
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132

Leftie,

UK 12/10/2008 11:27:14
@157
Vida Dosa

Oh boy, what a wacko! i think you have some personal mental issues that need to be attended to right away. A quack is in order...
133

Leftie,

UK 12/10/2008 12:11:19
Sarah Palin and hubby Todd have been telling Alaska officials that they live in fear of their former brother in law Michael Wooten.

It looks like it's basically a load of b@ll@cks.
Investigating officer Stephen Branchflower wrote that Palin "knowingly permitted a situation to continue where impermissible pressure was placed on several subordinates in order to advance a personal agenda."

Palin's a gonner there's no 2 ways about it.
134

,

12/10/2008 12:21:19
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,

12/10/2008 12:45:53
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,

12/10/2008 20:17:47
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Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 13/10/2008 00:59:14
Virginian in 110:

I don't advocate getting excited over the Nov 4'th events coming up.

Regarding the financial crisis, I share Ron Paul's view that much of the news on the financial crisis is orchestrated and that the entire crisis results from policies we have. The $700 billion will be focused on companies that have dug holes for themselves via greedy fraud. Catherine Austin Fitts says they wrote multiple mortgage securities for just 1 house & 1 mortgage, then sold it all to russians & chinese who are each recirculating dollars through central banks or sovereign wealth funds. The whole system is rigged to recirculate dollars back and also to give the dollar artificial value rather than value based on our trade position. we don't have a trade position as you know. The trade deficit is 6% of our entire gdp, down from 7% about 3 years ago. with such a high persistent trade deficit the recirculation of dollars is required.

By just letting Treasury give the money out it will cover up this fraud that’s been done. It would be a lot less expensive than $700 billion to just pay off the entire mortgages of each homeowner who has his house foreclosed each year. I read it would cost $100 billion to fully pay off all residential mortgages that get foreclosed on each year. What we’re seeing in the bailout bill is a criminal taking of the people’s money and the focusing of it on a business clique able to achieve this simply through its power over government. We don’t reward people monetarily for producing in this country, we reward people for financial manipulation or for the investment into a bubble market while prices are going up. When raw land prices were increasing by a factor of between 5 & 10 in the outlying empty areas surrounding phoenix over just a 3 year period, then that is a bubble aimed at increasing the money supply in an unwise manner. This pumps cash through the economy that gets spent and keeps our gdp going, but it doesn’t produce anythin
138

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 13/10/2008 01:00:34
This pumps cash through the economy that gets spent and keeps our gdp going, but it doesn’t produce anything. We don’t invest in production. Others do. We invest in spending. The system is rigged this way, we did not rig it, the bankers did. Others produce, we consume. How awful for a nation that was a super-producer over a period of 300 years.

Today we import more dollar value of food than we export. But many poor people require the food we export. And our government subsidizes a system for destroying that food thus driving up prices and causing starvation. Virginian, we can’t be happy with this.

Ron Paul has introduced legislation to delete the federal reserve, they gave it an HR # and everything, but of course it never got out of committee. I can truly say that George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln and John F. Kennedy would all agree with Ron Paul on that legislation to eliminate the Federal Reserve. Benjamin Franklin wrote at length about money-creation and said the reason for the revolution was because the king controlled money creation. Today the Federal Reserve controls the creation of new US dollars. that means the US government is not sovereign in this country. the Federal Reserve is. George Washington & Thomas Jefferson both indicated where they stand on these issues also when they were alive. Jefferson has a choice quote on it even. Lincoln of course created new US dollars as a sovereign government. Kennedy did the same. So, I'm absolutely convinced that each one of those patriots I mentioned would stand with Ron Paul on that legislation. But Nancy Pelosi, the democrat, will not allow it to be voted on.

I think that over 55% of the Republicans in the House voted against the $700 billion bailout bill. In the Senate it was maybe 45% of the republicans who voted against it. Democrats of course were overwhelming in favor of it in both houses.

Some democrat leaders are OK when it comes to the
139

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 13/10/2008 01:01:25
Some democrat leaders are OK when it comes to their loyalty to our country. But 90% are not and half the other 10% are kooks. Only 5% of the democrats are both sane and honest. On the Republican side I'd set it around 15% both sane & honest.

and to compound problems, we say in arizona as barry goldwater used to say that you can tell the honest people in politics, they are the ones with the arrows coming out of their backs.

this world is made for evil people to rule it Virginian. When jesus returns that is when it'll be fixed. PTL. We may have divisions now among us, but we must forgive our opponents in those divisions because in the end we will be on the same side, as every knee shall bend. we can agree on that.

the problem with the financial crisis is a money supply problem. If stock markets or large investment banks go bust and thus there is much less paper equity in big corporations, then what happens is the money supply has been put into rapid contraction. Thats one thing that bubbles are for. when you burst them, it can create momentum for political changes. that is what is going on. The $700 billion is 'protection' money that a mafia group might charge. Unless it is paid they will make the economy go bad.

There are other ways to manage the money supply than to tax the people and then spend it on a bailout. The government itself should create new dollars and spend it by paying its bills. Maybe our soldiers could get proper medical care that way. and in this manner taxes could be cut for American people (if government creates new money to fill the gap in money supply contraction). all that money being spent by the americans would prevent the depression they tell us we'll have if we don't do as they say. They're criminals. They have the media and the politicians.

when jesus returns he will de-throne those evil people who rule us now. And he will protect us from whatever earthly enemies may come at us as a result of those evil
140

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 13/10/2008 01:02:53
when jesus returns he will de-throne those evil people who rule us now. And he will protect us from whatever earthly enemies may come at us as a result of those evil ones who do rule us today as well.

Oh and Virginian, I meant to tell you that I agree with you on the apartheid thing. We did not have apartheid anything like south Africa did or Israel/occupied territories does at any time in our history. Some evil people have taken what was the worst of this situation and presented it as being the uniform situation in America. Jim Crow Laws applied in up to 10 individual states only and they were of small consequence even in those states. When you look at multi-racial or multi-ethnic nations around the globe, truly our country is the one that has distinguished itself as in e pluribus unum.
141

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 13/10/2008 01:18:06
Virginian in 110:

McCain also has 2 good things he wants to do for the economy.

1- He wants to build lots of nuclear plants. that would be done with borrowed money, let the dollars recirculate and create good domestic jobs for men in large numbers.

2 - he says the government should have money for causing problem residential mortgages to be favorably refinanced, etc. this would be far less expensive than the bailout bill and better.

but IMHO these are just teaser-ideas to keep the republican faithful on the hook. Congressional Republicans did not give a good alternative to the $700 billion bailout. and I believe republicans have had 7 years to get something going on the nuclear power plant construction issue.

some people like to say that government spending is bloated on welfare for the poor. but we can't say that as in reality the government spends a lot of money on rich people. and the $700 billion bailout is now a mass welfare program for the super-rich.
142

Virginian,

USA 13/10/2008 19:08:59
#169 Wally,
You have made several good points about our economic situation and about McCain's ideas to solve the crisis.

McCain is far superior to Obama as far as having economic expertise. McCain and his wife, Cindy, are experienced and successful business owners.

Cindy McCain inherited a successful business but has vastly expanded it to even greater success over the years. Her company provides employment for a large number of people.

Obama and his wife, on the other hand, come from poor to mediocre financial backgrounds in which neither could attend college except through Affirmative Action policies due to their minority status.

In other words, Obama has no experience as far as starting and running a business, providing employment for people through such a business or knowing what the business sector's problems are as far as taxes, credit, etc.

Our economy is the greatest worry for all the people from the poorest to the richest. Solving this crisis and getting the economy back on track is the first priority for the new administration.

The McCains have a proven record of economic expertise and success while the Obamas only have a record of personal financial success through Affirmative Action entitlements.

Common sense says that McCain knows far better how to deal with an economic crisis than Obama who relies on big government intervention to solve any problem.
143

,

15/10/2008 02:43:23
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