Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement


Police file grows by 100 names a day

Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 24 December 2008
A SCOTTISH police "criminal intelligence" database that contains personal information on 320,000 individuals is growing by nearly 100 names every day, The Scotsman can reveal.
But as police hail its importance in helping catch criminals, fears have been raised by politicians and civil liberties campaigners who say Scotland is fast becoming a "surveillance society" and that there are no checks and balances on how the database is compiled or used.

The Scottish Intelligence Database (SID) contains the details of more than 320,000 people suspected of being involved in criminal activity.

Some 60,000 names are added to the database every year, although about half that number are removed because there is no evidence they are breaking the law.

Critics are concerned it is only the police that decide which names are added and taken off, and they are calling for a more accountable system.

The SID contains more than a million pieces of information, including names, addresses, telephone numbers and records, and bank account details. Police say they retain only relevant information for each of the "nominals" – the term used for names – on the £11 million system.

But John Scott, a leading Scottish human rights lawyer, fears that the database's growth will mean the police infringing on innocent people's privacy – and he called for the police to publish an annual report on the SID to boost transparency and public confidence.

"There are equivalent implications on this system as there are for the DNA database, which has been held to be unlawful when the English system was challenged," he said. "Any intelligence system like this is only as good and robust as the safeguards and reviews to ensure innocent people's names on the database are removed.

"For that to be demonstrated, the police should be required to give information on removals from the database, perhaps in the form of an annual report.

"The more people are put on to these databases, the greater the risk of abuse or misuse.''

The Green MSP Patrick Harvie echoed his calls for greater regulation. He said: "It is vital that this database is not going unchecked and unregulated. Databases are becoming the tool of choice for the promoters of the surveillance society. We need proper oversight so the public can find out what is held on it so that inaccurate data can be removed."

Police chiefs say the SID, which was set up in 2003, has been an "incredible" boost in the fight against crime, allowing police to apprehend criminals much more quickly.

Detectives insist its growth reflects better intelligence gathering on people engaged in the full spectrum of crime.

The system, developed by the criminal intelligence IT firm ABM, was set up with a Scottish Executive grant of £5.8 million, and has annual running costs of £1.3 million.

Pat Shearer, chief constable of Dumfries and Galloway and chairman of the SID project board for the Association of Chief Police Officers in Scotland, said it had made an "incredible" difference to policing.

"It's very difficult to make that assessment because it's so significant," he told The Scotsman. "It's so easy now for police officers to make those vital connections and have access to information that just wasn't there before.

"Intelligence is probably the life-blood of our organisation."

He said that, for the first time, the database allowed police across Scotland to share intelligence on criminal targets at the touch of a button.

Previously, each force had its own separate intelligence systems, with bigger forces having several distinct databases. Officers investigating a crime would have to ask other forces to run a name through their systems.

Often, they would require a reason to believe that person may have a link to that other force, whereas today police can carry out nationwide trawls for intelligence on a suspect in a matter of minutes.

In recent years, the system has been expanded to include the national ANPR (automatic number plate recognition) system, which uses a network of secret roadside cameras to detect and record suspect vehicles.

It is also linked to Visor – the national Violent and Sexual Offenders Register – a separate database of the country's most dangerous criminals.

Chief Inspector Andy Gosling, the SID project manager, insisted it was properly monitored on a regular basis. He said: "We will review those involved in the most serious crime every five years, and every three years for anything imprisonable. Everyone else is reviewed every year."

He added: "The biggest benefit for us is that we now have one single database. Before we were faced with a 'chicken and egg' situation. You had to know which forces to go and seek information from before you ask them.

"The names on the database are not just people in Scotland. They are people from across the UK and Europe too. But the intelligence will tell us they are involved in crime directly affecting Scotland."

People on the list are not allowed to see the information police hold on them. They may be given access to some basic details under data protection laws, but most files would be withheld.

Robert Brown MSP, the Liberal Democrats' justice spokesman, thinks that is wrong. He said: "This culture of secrecy flies in the face of attempts to make public services more open and transparent."


Sorting the wheat from the chaff is a long process

THERE is valuable intelligence that leads police to catch the criminals, and then there is background interference – tittle-tattle, hearsay and irrelevancies – that can take police down investigative cul-de-sacs.

Being able to separate the two is vital to the success of the Scottish Intelligence Database.

The system relies on carefully sifting through a flood of intelligence reports submitted every day by the country's 17,000 police officers.

These reports cover the whole spectrum of crime, and vary vastly in their usefulness.

The task of sorting all this out lies with teams of intelligence officers and analysts in each of the country's eight police forces, as well as the Scottish Crime and Drug Enforcement Agency. They sit in unremarkable offices, wading through thousands of reports every day, grading the intelligence reports and sorting the wheat from the chaff.

"We don't want to be keeping stuff like 'Joe Smith has £10,000 in his bank account'. But we do want to hang on to 'Joe Smith has £10,000 in his bank account from drug-dealing," says Pat Shearer, chief constable of Dumfries and Galloway Police and chair of the SID project board for the ACPOS.

Equally, the intelligence officers will assess the reliability of the tip-offs.

Solid-gold intelligence that Joe Smith has stashed away £10,000 of profits from dealing crack cocaine has to be prioritised over an unreliable informant saying he's heard from Joe Smith's ex-girlfriend that he's stashed away £10,000 of profits from dealing cocaine.

So police use a "five-by-five" grading system: ranging from "A1" intelligence, which will be both highly relevant to a criminal investigation, and highly reliable; to "E5", which will be far less useful, and possibly bogus.

Mr Shearer insisted that there is no doubt that the system is allowing police to keep up with a vast amount of crime being carried out by people inside and outside Scotland, such as drug dealers from cities south of the Border who arrange for heroin and cocaine to be couriered to Glasgow or Edinburgh.

But not all will have been convicted of a crime, and many will have been subject to unsubstantiated intelligence feeds that need to be checked.


BACKGROUND

A WAR on Scotland's growing cocaine epidemic is being waged with the help of the Scottish Intelligence Database.

It emerged in the summer that seizures of the drug had increased by 50 per cent in the space of just two years. Seizures of crack cocaine trebled over the same period.

The police believe a gang of English crack suppliers has focused on infiltrating the drug market in the Grampian force area in recent years.

They are thought to have targeted the sex industry in Aberdeen by giving prostitutes their first hit for free in order to get them dependent on crack.

The prostitutes are then supplied directly and then urged to pass on the drug to their clients.

Intelligence from SID and cooperation with forces in England is said to have helped the police create a picture of a network of the individuals involved.

Chief Inspector Andy Goslin, SID project manager, said: "Good quality intelligence ensured that operations could be set up targeting specific people and premises for arrest and disruption of drug related activity.

"Over a period of about 18 months there have been a number of arrests, convictions and seizures as a result of these operations. These included charges of possession, possession with intent to supply and being concerned with the supply of drugs."

Around 7.3 kilos of crack cocaine was seized in Grampian last year.


Case 1: Scots system helped trace Danielle's drive-by killer

Junior Andrews: Will be in prison for at least 32 years
Junior Andrews: Will be in prison for at least 32 years
THE Scottish Intelligence Database played a crucial role in capturing the gang responsible for the murder of 14-year-old schoolgirl Danielle Beccan in a drive-by shooting in Nottingham in 2004.

Her plaintive last words, "I am going to die", shocked people across Britain.

The case was one of the most infamous examples of how gang culture and the use of guns were getting out of control in the UK.

Detectives believed one of the killers, Junior Andrews, had some links in the North-east of Scotland, and asked Grampian Police to run his name through the Scottish Intelligence Database.

Andrews had no fixed address, so it had proven difficult for police in England to trace his history.

However, Grampian Police came up with a number of "hits", including addresses of family members in Aberdeen.

Andrews was alleged to have fired the shots that hit the teenager as she and friends walked through St Ann's, Nottingham, on 9 October, 2004.

Partly thanks to the information on the database, the police were able to trace Andrews and arrest him in Aberdeen.

It emerged he had a long record of involvement in gangs and their associated drug, knife and gun cultures, and eventually, in October 2005, he was ordered to serve at least 32 years in prison for Danielle's murder.

For a long time, members of Midlands-based gangs have been blamed for many of the drug problems in Aberdeen and the North-east of Scotland, particularly those involving crack cocaine. The Granite city became known as "Scotland's crack capital", and that made it a perfect place to build up the database of gang and drugs-related problems in Scotland.

Case 2: DNA link led to ram-raid gang

THE capture of a gang of ramraiders who targeted cash machines across Scotland and the north-east of England has been put down to the success of the Scottish Intelligence Database.

One raid saw them use a mechanical digger to smash into a cash machine in East Lothian.

It was one of nine highly organised robberies – carried out between January 2005 and November 2006 – which saw the gang escape with almost £300,000 in cash. The gang slashed the tyres of police cars parked at stations near the cash machines. Investigating officers in Lothian and Borders and Strathclyde used the database to put together an entire profile of all the gang members using intelligence gathered from across the UK. Forensic tests carried out on an abandoned getaway car were linked to the DNA of one of the gang members.

Case 3: How bank raiders were tracked down

TWO masked raiders who terrorised bank staff with a sawn-off shotgun and an axe were locked up with the help of the database. Robert Harper, 40, and Robert Findlay, 45 were jailed for 18 years each after being convicted of raiding the Airdrie Savings Bank in Muirhead, Lanarkshire, in October, 2005.

The pair had threatened seven terrified members of staff and stole more than £6000.

But the two bank raiders were eventually caught after CCTV images of them without their masks on outside the premises and details of the incident were circulated throughout the Strathclyde Police force.

Police believe the SID system, which led to officers in another part of the force area recognising one of the raiders, helped prevent them carry out a number of other serious offences.

Case 4: Prime example of SID in action

POLICE point to a case of attempted murder in Dumfries and Galloway as a prime example of the difference the creation of the SID has made.

A major investigation was launched and a suspect quickly identified. However when officers went to his home address he had disappeared, leaving no clue to where he had gone.

Searches of both the local intelligence systems in use at the time did not reveal any further information on where he might be. The SID database had not come into use in Dumfries and Galloway at the time, about three years ago.

However, one of the officers involved in the investigation was being trained on how to use SID and decided to search for the suspect's name to see if any further information could be uncovered.

He found that a SID entry existed for the suspect, linking him to an address in a town in the north of Scotland.

Within hours the man had been arrested, charged with the attempted murder and detained.

The Dumfries and Galloway force believes that without SID the suspect could only have been found through an expensive, time-consuming search across the whole of Scotland or even the UK.

Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 23 December 2008 11:50 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Law and Order , Legal Issues
 
1

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 24/12/2008 00:23:58


D'oh! Am I on this,....

...."criminal intelligence database", For parking on a 'Yellow Line'?

Being Serious (if I ever can!) it could prove to be a very useful tool to fight crime, as long as it does not become ludicrous!, as it,....

'POOR OLD' AUNT MARY!

Suffering from Dementia, she went out with NO Knickers on,...

.....'A GUST OFF WIND' Blew in the wrong direction!

Catching out 'POOR OLD AUNT Mary's' UNAWARES!

A 'Traffic Warden' Got the 'Shot' on his mobile phone, reported her to the Police, with evidence in hand!

She was put on the "criminal intelligence database" and watched,..'Night and Day',....

... UNTIL ONE NIGHT?,,,'AUNT MARY',,,PASSED AWAY!!


2

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 24/12/2008 00:54:42
Add to the database the 129 criminals who infest that den of iniquity loosely known as the Scottish Parliament.
3

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 24/12/2008 01:09:20



Mercutio ~2,


WHAT!?

Have they, NO!,..."Knickers On",...Also?? :)





4

Tracker,

24/12/2008 01:12:15
It would be good to have statistical information about this database, such as the reasons why peoples names are added. I would also like to have an independent body to monitor the use of this database by police officers. If a person's name is removed from the database are details retained in a file elsewhere?
5

Guga II,

Rockall 24/12/2008 01:25:51
Such a database is all very well if it is used and maintained properly. However, how can we rely on the police to use it properly? They don't exactly have a reputation for honesty or probity.

Such a database should not contain data on anyone who is not a criminal or who has not been involved in criminal activities. By criminal activities, I do not include such things as minor speeding or parking offences; otherwise that can and probably will be used by the police as an excuse for keeping data on the majority of the population.

There is a need for an independent body to monitor police activities in this area (quis custodiet ipsos custodes). There is also no good reason why people cannot get full access to any data hald on them by the police. How else can the public be assured that the information held on them is accurate or truthful?

6

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 24/12/2008 01:29:17


Tracker ~4,

The UK is 'Renowned' for loosing computer files, on trains, in the post etc!

Yes! Our, Old Boy 'bin laden' is once Again,...

...'LAUGHING HIS HEED OFF', Just waiting for this "Data" to go missing in his direction, for him to gain,....

....'New Recruits'!

7

Scunnert,

http://scunnert-nation.blogspot.com/ 24/12/2008 01:29:35
Like all databases this one will grow and grow. Eventually everyone will be on it. But then - if you've got nothing to hide what do you have to fear say the Stasi?
8

Shamus,

Glasgow 24/12/2008 01:30:50
Mein Gott I never realised the SNP had 320,000 members.
Where are they breeding!
9

Donnie Murdo,

24/12/2008 01:39:44
Come and get me ass wipes! The jack boot of Labour has never been slipper like!

Squeel! Said the non labourite! We see you for who you are!

It started with thon fellow who was removed from your "conference" couple years back under the terrorism law and ended with menezes.

We're waiting.......
10

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 24/12/2008 01:45:56


Guga II ~5,

Your not allowed to be 'Sensible' at this time of year!

As in, we are a 'tad' of a 'laughing stock' at the best of times, in this Country!

"Data" Needs to be Stored and Accessed by, "Mr Sensible"!

Unfortuatly all to often,.."Mr Topsy Turvey" is in charge of important "Data"

11

Shamus,

Glasgow 24/12/2008 01:50:59
10# Wee Eck is Mr Topsy Turvey in this case. His Admin is in charge of the polis.
12

Shamus,

Glasgow 24/12/2008 01:53:53
A HUNNER NAMES A DAY MULTIPLIED BY HOW MANY DAYS THE SNP HAVE BEEN IN POWER = A LOT.
13

Donnie Murdo,

24/12/2008 01:54:24
Labour announced eaier this year that they are going to spend £12 billion on survellience opertions in this country.

Aye? Survey this!

Fek you!
14

Shamus,

Glasgow 24/12/2008 01:56:21
The SNP are still pursuing the so called Poll Tax Dodgers Just like Labour did. Dont you just love those Socialists that encouraged people not to pay!
15

,

24/12/2008 02:01:16
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
16

Scunnert,

http://scunnert-nation.blogspot.com/ 24/12/2008 02:11:47
Shamus - don't you mean - Yuck Fou? Right back at ye wee man.
17

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 24/12/2008 02:19:45


Shamus ~11,

Are we talking 'Mr Salmond'?

I can just see that one working in Scotland!

Scenario!!

"I am Married, I have 1.2 Children, I have a Good Job, I have a Mortgage, I have Bank Cards"!!

"I am 20years Old"!

"The other Day, I went out to get a 'bottle of Wine', to celebrate the Birth of my New Baby, with my Wife"

"I Was Arrested"!

"I Was Put on the, Criminal Data Base"!

"Thankyou Very Much, Mr Salmond, Very Much Indeed",....

.............."NOT"!!!!!


18

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 24/12/2008 02:22:21




NEVER, BUT NEVER! WILL HE GET A VOTE FROM OUR 'YOUNG' AGAIN!


19

Scunnert,

24/12/2008 02:25:48
Good try Charlie - but this has labour written all over it.
20

Shamus,

Glasgow 24/12/2008 02:27:02
16# Who the Eck compiled the book of excuses fur the SNP. They must have a mole in the Labour and Tory Parties. Ach well email!
21

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 24/12/2008 02:51:33

And Remember This!!

It IS our Young, that are our Future!, they will be the ones, that will decide, the Future!

Not us Spectators!

"Criminal Data" will be stored, but not like we do today!

If Some that I have mentioned as our Leaders, on this thread, treat 18year olds, lesser than Adults, then prosecute them, and then put them on a "Criminal Data Base",...

...'OF-COURSE', "Data" On the 'Real Criminal's' Will be Stored, As it should Be!

Now would be the Time but,..'Alas'!, Soo Many Stupid Policies Like, Making an Adult, A Criminal, for Purchasing Cigarette's, or Alcohol, or Poor Old,...

..."AUNT MARY", Suffering from Dementia, Criminals is beyond,...

...Beggars Believe!

NO MENTION! Off that in this Article of "Stored Data"!

Believe you Me, this Will be the Case!




22

,

24/12/2008 02:57:52
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
23

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 24/12/2008 02:59:15
re error! *-*

And Remember This!!

It IS our Young, that are our Future!, they will be the ones, that will decide, the Future!

Not us Spectators!

"Criminal Data" will be stored, but not like we do today!

If Some that I have mentioned as our Leaders, on this thread, treat 18year olds, lesser than Adults, then prosecute them, and then put them on a "Criminal Data Base",...

...'OF-COURSE', "Data" On the 'Real Criminal's' Will **NOT** be Stored, As it should Be!

Now would be the Time but,..'Alas'!, Soo Many Stupid Policies Like, Making an Adult, A Criminal, for Purchasing Cigarette's, or Alcohol, or Poor Old,...

..."AUNT MARY", Suffering from Dementia, Criminals is beyond,...

...Beggars Believe!

NO MENTION! Off that in this Article of "Stored Data"!

Believe you Me, this Will be the Case!
24

DesertRat,

24/12/2008 05:06:27
Shades of 1984! George Orwell must be laughing his head off wherever he is. All this technology has become available in the past 10 years or so. Imagine how it will be in another 20. No... don't imagine. You'll go bonkers. My guess is that everyone will enter the database at birth and will be tracked from then on. For your benefit, of course... Be afraid.
25

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 24/12/2008 05:21:39
-- a system developed by the criminal intelligence IT firm

When you're thick as theives, you want some IT intelligence.
26

FLUB,

a rocky outcrop in eastern central Scotland 24/12/2008 05:33:56
Here on the rocky outcrop, a file is to be started for those who supply, or are concerned in the supply of, mulled wine.

How many names will be on the Hokey Cokey list?

Be very afraid.
27

I can see for miles,

24/12/2008 06:17:53
Hokey Cokey....

What's the point on being on the list when they don't even send you a Christmas card
28

The Glasgow Ranger,

Edinburgh. 24/12/2008 07:37:48
Inadequate sentecing by the courts will make this database futile.
29

The Glasgow Ranger,

Edinburgh 24/12/2008 07:49:54
#29 - good point and to answer your question,"thick".
30

I can see for miles,

24/12/2008 07:51:28
#29

If the boy's accountant says it is good money, what proof do you have sitting in your beanbag posting away that it isn't?

Tell me that...
31

For Scotlands Future,

24/12/2008 07:51:56
#27 :>) Brilliant.
I tried to get my mother-in-law on the list, but they still haven't arrested her.

That 100-a-day is going to rise sharply, as the most popular song this New Year will be the Hokey Cokey.
32

I can see for miles,

24/12/2008 07:52:34
Blood is thicker than water.

Is that what you're going on aboot?
33

For Scotlands Future,

Vote for the SNP 24/12/2008 07:53:43
The last part of this article looks like a Party Political Broadcast on behalf of the database. Well, this is a Labour Party Web site, isn't it.
34

I can see for miles,

24/12/2008 07:54:56
#32

You have to slip the CD Rom into her night gown and call the polis from a pre-paid cell phone.

Believe me, it works....
35

I can see for miles,

24/12/2008 07:59:48
Whatever.... Freguson's right leg (and possibly arm) will be in and out on Saturday.


Cannae wait
36

terry osser,

morden 24/12/2008 08:18:14
i agree with number 2
37

Partan,

Fife 24/12/2008 08:25:59
Interesting article from yesterday's Grauniad.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/dec/23/activists-conservation-police
38

Scythia,

24/12/2008 08:29:51
If the "useful idiot" far-left prat Harvie, thinks this is a bad thing, then maybe the cops are doing something right for a change.
39

The Glasgow Ranger,

Edinburgh. 24/12/2008 08:30:48
#31 - greater power has to be given to the regulatory authorities (ICAS) - they need to audit the published accounts of suspicious individuals.How many dodgy accountants do you hear of being struck off?
40

For Scotlands Future,

Vote for the SNP 24/12/2008 08:33:24
#36: Agree that we need the list of names - not the details - to be published, so that individuals can challenge their inclusion on the list. There is no reason whatsoever for the names on the list being kept secret - unless of course this is a police state. Then a person should be able to see what information is being stored. If the police store this information, then they must believe it is correct and accurate. Surly the public should help the police by confirming the data??

However, I think just challenging the list is excuse enough for your inclusion on the list.
41

School Inspector,

24/12/2008 08:40:05
I assume what Pat Shearer, chief constable of Dumfries and Galloway Police and chair of the SID project board for the ACPOS actuall means is that he would like to hang onto the statement that 'Joe Smith has £10,000 in his bank account from SUSPECTED drug-dealing" .......... otherwise Joe Smith would be in the slammer; would he not? I hope that Pat Chairs the ACPOS with slightly more preciseness that he makes statements to the Newspapers.
42

I can see for miles,

24/12/2008 08:44:43
#42

Is that they boys that Thunderbirds work for?
43

The Glasgow Ranger,

Edinburgh. 24/12/2008 08:56:18
#45 - Thunderbirds will work for anyone of the price is right....Mr.Tracey.
44

I can see for miles,

24/12/2008 08:59:11
#46

Any jobs going?

Got my own vehicle, and everything...
45

I can see for miles,

24/12/2008 09:06:55
Salmond destroyed SNP when he went on his rants about bones and stones.

Lost his "credibility"
46

Al Pacino,

24/12/2008 09:30:58
It's private and restricted obviously, not for public use. The purpose is clearly to gather info. I'm a bit sick of wishy washy twits wanting everyone to be 'transparent' etc... and various other modern business terms. #43, you'll find there's every reason for the database to remain private unless you'd like sex pests, fraudsters and people who will batter your granny to have their movements ignored. Dummy.
47

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 24/12/2008 09:43:30
Nice to know that the two guys who raided the post office and stole £6,000 got 18 years each for it. Now what about the politicians, architects, developers, 'civil' servants and 'cost consultants' who between them stole £400,000,000 over the building of that parliament of numpties? Oh and not to forget 'Fatty Fraser' who trousered a few hundred grand for chairing that whitewash of an enquiry where he swore 'to get to the bottom of this'. And guess what ' nobody' was responsible. The rule is - streel level criminals steal £6,000 and quite rightly get banged up for 18 years. Politicians, architects and lawyers steal £400,000,000 and get what? Knighthoods, seats in the Lords and paid positions on lots of cosy quangos.
48

The Glasgow Ranger,

Edinburgh. 24/12/2008 09:46:02
#47 - I`ll have Brains give you a call.Are you available over the festive period should International Rescue require your services?,double time and a day in lieu is on offer.
49

I can see for miles,

24/12/2008 09:56:28
#52

The IRS?
50

I can see for miles,

24/12/2008 10:04:22
Morris Minor Convertible- Thunderbird 6
51

,

24/12/2008 10:12:06
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
52

I can see for miles,

24/12/2008 10:15:08
Will Salmond be making his traditional Christmas speech?
53

I can see for miles,

24/12/2008 10:23:09
Salmaond at home doing the Hokey Cokey with his lovely wife.

You Tube would get more hits than The Beatles....
54

Hugh Roscombe,

24/12/2008 10:24:31
1

You are clinically insane. Please do not reproduce.
55

JimC,

Kilmarnock 24/12/2008 10:26:52
I thought under the data protection act, the police or anyone else for that matter are required to provide you with any information they hold on request. The question here is if you state specifically all databases including SID and you are told that is exempt information, then I would be worried about its legitimate use.
56

,

24/12/2008 10:27:38
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
57

I can see for miles,

24/12/2008 10:29:31
Double Cracker bill on the TV here.

A wee Christmas Cracker.

The first few episodes were "the best"
58

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 24/12/2008 10:31:44

#60,

The answer to your question will be a yes! If you find me on the "data base" :)

59

I can see for miles,

24/12/2008 10:35:48
Chuck

data bases....

It's just a phase their going through
60

I can see for miles,

24/12/2008 10:36:24
"Silly Phase"
61

I can see for miles,

24/12/2008 10:38:20
No turkey for me this year. "tightening the belt"


Thought I might go for the pasta with a topping of low salt/low fat crisps.

Got to "look after yourself"
62

The Glasgow Ranger,

Edinburgh 24/12/2008 10:41:15
#54 - would it be ok to convert to an amphibious vehicle? - better rates apply for this type of Thunderbird.
63

I can see for miles,

24/12/2008 10:44:26
#68

The wee Morris Minor. Show me terrain where she cannae go....

Christmas tree air freshner....

Looks good
64

Hugh Roscombe,

24/12/2008 10:49:47
Has everybody started guzzling the cooking sherry a tad early? Mental posts abound.
65

I can see for miles,

24/12/2008 10:54:02
#70

Shug

I take it you are cooking the turkey....
66

Observer..,

Glasgow 24/12/2008 10:54:06
The Police have always kept lists of people, and low level ''intelligence''. In days gone by they had it on wee card systems. If someone phones up Crimestoppers and says you're dealing drugs then your name will go on it whether your dealing drugs or not. It's how they operate.

What is dangerous about recent developments is the changes in legislation and the politicisation of Police.

Police will always gather intelligence, it's what they do with it that matters.
67

I can see for miles,

24/12/2008 10:57:42
Poilce

Drinking in pubs after hours and getting free boxes of chocolates.

And that this stuff I can post.....


Saving the world.... I don't think so
68

Observer..,

Glasgow 24/12/2008 10:58:21
Some of you have started early, I'm at work today.
69

I can see for miles,

24/12/2008 11:01:56
#74

Starting early and finishing late.

Did someone decide what the "time frame" is?
70

Observer..,

Glasgow 24/12/2008 11:07:45
yeah my employers did, damn them.
71

I can see for miles,

24/12/2008 11:09:25
#76

Lucky you've got one...
72

The Penicuik Doctor,

penicuik 24/12/2008 11:24:22
Just some factual information.
The police are bound by law to prevent crime and arrest offenders. They are also bound by Freedom of Information Act 2000, as well as The Human Rights Act 1998. If they hold confirmed information - a conviction and a description - then the subject is allowed to see that information for veracity but it will only be removed under the Rehabilition of Offenders Act.. If not convicted, then again the subject can see the information and request its removal. The only 'out' for the police is if the information relates to national security.
So the prisons are full, the courts are overworked - perhaps the police are actually using the information to lock up the culprits and assist the community. Or am I being simple minded?
73

I can see for miles,

24/12/2008 11:27:34
#78

Jim Kerr

The answer is in the proof
74

I can see for miles,

24/12/2008 12:09:53
Info in the heid, is info.

75

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 24/12/2008 12:22:54
And then, when they don't record, don't have a joined-up system, don't share suspicions and intelligence (e.g. the case of Ian Huntley in Soham) the polis get pelters from the armchair hindsight warriors. All those above who consider themselves more honest, more hardworking and more intelligent than the average plod should volunteer their services for the common good and raise the standard. No? Thought not, just prefer to girm about something they know f*c* all about.
76

Pilrig,

Livingston 24/12/2008 12:26:13
Anyone caught singin the Hokey Cokey at Ibrox on Saturday will be put on this file.
In out, in out, shake it all about...
77

Shenachy,

South Queensferry 24/12/2008 12:26:40
The usual drivel being posted by the ‘stirrers’ on this site I see.
Posters, if you take the time to read the story : – if you are a suspect the details are filed and if there is subsequently no evidence to prosecute the intelligence is removed. The moral to the story is; don’t engage in criminal acts.
As usual the headline is deliberately designed to make you think we are all on the list – why do so many keep falling for sub editors’ tricks????
78

Pilrig,

Livingston 24/12/2008 12:28:05
82 The polis are mair intelligent than the average poster on this threid ? Thr Strathclyde polis ? : )
79

Pilrig,

Livingston 24/12/2008 12:29:11
84 - like Walter Wolfgang and Damien Green ?
80

Observer..,

Glasgow 24/12/2008 12:34:03
82 is right we should expect the Police to use intelligence - to catch criminals.

Walter Wolfgang wasn't a criminal.

That's the key point, it's not that Police gather intelligence it's what they use it for.
81

Shenachy,

South Queensferry 24/12/2008 12:41:37
#86 Sorry I don't know (and care even less) about the police procedures in England. I come under Scots Law in my neck of the woods. I presume you are suggesting that Walter Wolfgang and Damien Green have had their details put on an intelligence file and will never be removed - if so, how were you able to confirm this?
82

Shamus,

Glasgow 24/12/2008 12:59:57
88# Damien Green is a criminal offence. Tory!
83

I can see for miles,

24/12/2008 13:29:00
Being an expert on financial and economic matters, I am qualified to comment

Pound- low value

Going abroad- expensive

Staying at home- no change in the value


Merry Chritmas to all who post on here

84

Hugh Roscombe,

24/12/2008 13:42:46
92

I STILL can't get that song out of my head. Go away.

ps - Merry Christmas.
85

I can see for miles,

24/12/2008 13:46:45
Shug

Thought you would have been on the Costa Brava lapping up?
86

I can see for miles,

24/12/2008 13:49:28
I Can See For Miles reached no 2 in the UK charts.

If it were a single today, it would be a straight to no 1.

That's how times have changed
87

Hugh Roscombe,

24/12/2008 13:50:17
94

del sol please.
88

I can see for miles,

24/12/2008 13:53:28
#96

A wee del sol man?

Do you have your own glass in the local.

Heard they have excellent facilities these days.

Rubber rings on arrival
89

nolimits,

24/12/2008 14:26:11
Psssst..... Charles posted on the Scotsman board again today. Pass it on.
90

go boil ur heid,

24/12/2008 14:36:08
that's the blackshirts doing what they do best i wonder how many bankers lawyers etc are on that list i'll bet at least none
91

Churchill W.,

24/12/2008 16:30:23
Scunnert # 19

Why does the SNP not abolish this database then?

The SNP has got at least one supporter monitoring posts here and compiling a database of those opposed to the SNP. This individual is using the facilities of the Language department at Heriot Watt University in his SNP devolved task.
Macaskill and Salmond tried last year to arrogate to themselves to power to appoint Chief Police Officers in Scotland, this database is further proof of their totalitarian ambitions. If the police have admitted that this database exists it has occurred under duress and the uses to which it is put are being minimised. Probably, on the instructions of Salmond. If Salmond ever gets control of the police beware the "four 'O' clock knock" if you oppose the SNP!
92

Pilrig,

Livingston 24/12/2008 16:44:14
89 - they'll be on a file somewhere. You'd be quite naive think otherwise.

As a previous poster said W. Wolfgang wasn't a criminal, but the local stasi felt his collar courtesy of the anti-terror act.
93

Pilrig,

Livingston 24/12/2008 16:45:10
95 - Wont get fooled again ! : )
94

xmasallymax,

sunny florida 24/12/2008 17:00:48
Intelligence-led policing; this story is the more of the same from the 'common purpose' New Labour police state; oppress citizens by devaluing their rights, which in turn depresses them. However, I had to laugh when Bob Quick, (head of the anti-terrorism at Met0, felt endangered when his priviate information was put out in the press; was this a 'name-and-shame' by society on the police? Ha, Ha, Ha; yoo betcha. They don't like it up them do they. I'm sure someone will find a way to publish all the names and addresses of all Scots coppers. Then, we'll be equal, won't we!

Moreover, angiolini is 'pushing ahead' with her domestic abuse campaign. Police don't need 'corroborative evidence to arrest, contain nor charge Scottish citizens now; another loss of citizens rights. What's SNP doing about this?
BTW, because of the 'low threshhold' domestic abuse come sunder now for these eager coppers, can we expect mum being arrested, conytained, and charged with givin' the bairn a skelp fir, well, just about anything. That's child abuse under these new low threshholds. Copprs, do you jobs, arrest the fems also!

The queen's speech; what a hypocrite; she's the richest person on the planet and she's ordering 'her subjects' to be
of service' in this depserate times. She and Brown conjugated all this mess. What a shower of parasites;

Merry Christmas to all Scottish independence seekers.

95

Churchill W.,

24/12/2008 17:31:23
xmasallymax # 103

Just in case you have comprehension problems the article above begins; "A SCOTTISH police "criminal intelligence" database..."
This outrage is perpetrated under the willing auspices of the totalitarian SNP. Salmond will be spitting out his curry flavoured Christmas pud tomorrow when he realises the implications of the expose above.
Another of his sinister plans exposed.
96

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 24/12/2008 19:27:03
-- the expose above

Reveals his wilting auspices.

97

I can see for miles,

24/12/2008 19:37:24
If the police don't make details of the list public, how do we know there really is a list.

Maybe they've just been sitting aboot drinking coffee with three sugars and scoffing macaroon bars.

Think about that....
98

Cassandra,

24/12/2008 20:25:14
The database will grow exponentially if a report in today's Torygraph is true.

Bcause there has been a fall in convictions for careless driving (the TG says) police will now be able to pull you up for (I quote the list):

driving into the back of another car (and usually quite right too, although there are exceptions)
reading a map at the wheel (so don't leave your road atlas open on the passenger seat)
inserting a tape, CD or tuning a radio (so if you have a radio in your car, they'll get you anyway, whether you were actually listening to it or not)
arguing with passengers or other road users (so ask passengers not to gesticulate when giving you directions)
eating or drinking at the wheel (asking for trouble!)
smoking while driving (so ask your passengers not to smoke too, in case you are stopped and the car smells of ganja)
using a hands-free phone (this is not illegal unless it affects your driving. so learn ventriloquism in case the polis see your lips moving - and don't sing along with your in-car entertainment)
failing to stop at a school crossing (so now you can't run the little ba - sorry, darlings down any more)
splashing a pedestrian (you should be hanged, drawn and quartered for this anyway, unless the pedestrian is a chav or a polis)
driving with your sound system so loud OTHER road users can't hear anything (you should be flayed alive for this anyway)

As I've said many times, we'll soon all have criminal records, unless we cave in to Stalin Brown's plans for ID cards. Never mind, if you've done nothing wrong, you've nothing to fear..... except police targets....
99

I can see for miles,

24/12/2008 20:32:14
#107


How about tooting your horn and singing the hokey cokey at 2.30 on Staurday afternoon?
100

Shamus,

Glasgow 24/12/2008 21:04:30
108# Did you mean Seturdy.
101

I can see for miles,

24/12/2008 21:10:22
#109

Aye, that as well.

Anyone got the lyrics to the "problem song"
102

I can see for miles,

24/12/2008 21:38:54
#112

Aye, some dodgy characters on here
103

One-man-bucket's older twin,

24/12/2008 22:53:01
#108 Whoopie doopie, you're so loopy!
104

Darien,

Panama 24/12/2008 22:56:22
#78 Pen Doc: "The police are bound by law to prevent crime"

The police mostly spend their time recording and investigating crimes, they seldom "prevent" them. Oops, that's me on the list!
105

The Penicuik Doctor,

penicuik 24/12/2008 23:20:48
115 Darien
Do you have some infallible way of measuring how many crimes the police prevent?
If so - you are the answer to the prayers of civil servant statisticians; chief constables; politicians and yes the general public.
Unfortunately, this measurement is a figment of all our imaginations.
By guard, watch and patrol - the police are required to 'prevent crime and preserve the peace' in Scotland - and please read the English Acts for the difference in E&W
Now 2330hrs - far too late to discuss- night all.
106

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 25/12/2008 05:01:37
Inspectors Inskill, Laidlaw and special operator Jim deGriz were very relaxed about the new data base over a tumbler of the old Aunty Mary. We can reveal.

"There are now so many laws that anyone not breaking one at any moment of time has to have a criminal mind."

The rest is fiction.
107

BILL K,

Fife 25/12/2008 10:12:22
Can I say I feel really sad for the idiots who post such drivel on Xmas morning. You really should think about your actions and get a new life.
108

Russell M,

Stirling 25/12/2008 10:16:14
The misguided loyalties of the inhabitants of these isles undermines all human rights. Our history is replete with the abuse of authority. Yet we mistrust our neighbour instead, even though we live our whole lives without cause for concern.

The Big Lie as defined by Adolf Hitler in his 1925 autobiography Mein Kampf is a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously".

"You do not examine legislation in light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered." ~ Lyndon B. Johnson
109

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 25/12/2008 11:50:05



----------****MERRY CHRISTMAS****-----------


..........To All The Scotsman Readers........






110

,

25/12/2008 13:18:38
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
111

Shamus,

Glasgow 25/12/2008 13:59:32
121# You can always leave. Goodbye, Goodbye we are waving you goodbye. The Dublin Ferry is back on tomorrow.
112

Pip10,

Kent 26/12/2008 12:32:52
Please add my name to the list of those who oppose a Police State. If it is still necessary for me to commit a crime, other than disagreeing with NuLabour, then please suggest one which will not be too harmful as I do not want to breach anyone elses's human rights..............
113

Pip10,

Kent 26/12/2008 13:09:08
Mistake - I thought I was adding myself to the Scotsman's Xmas card list, please don't add my name afetr all.
114

,

26/12/2008 19:57:10
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
115

,

26/12/2008 21:17:03
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
116

know i get the picture,

corporate political plunder 09/01/2009 19:24:02
They currently force Scotland to send ALL ITS OIL MONEY to LONDON.

A MASSIVE revenue that is worth £22,831 a minute, £32 million a day, 12 billion a year.

A revenue that is so VAST it would allow Scotland to BUILD 2 SECONDARY SCHOOLS A DAY !!!!!!!!!!

For more infomation on the injustices inflicted upon Scotland by the Unionist Parties visit

http://www.oilofscotland.org/

PASS IT ON

 

Comment on this Story

 

In order to post comments you must Register or Sign In

 
 
 
  

 
 

Featured Advertising



Sister Newspapers:
Press Complaints Commission

This website and its associated newspaper adheres to the Press Complaints Commission’s Code of Practice. If you have a complaint about editorial content which relates to inaccuracy or intrusion, then contact the Editor by clicking here.

If you remain dissatisfied with the response provided then you can contact the PCC by clicking here.