Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement

 
 
Tuesday, 2nd December 2008 Change Date

The Scotsman Digital Archive - Special Christmas Offer

Premium Article !

Your account has been frozen. For your available options click the below button.

Options

Premium Article !

To read this article in full you must have registered and have a Premium Content Subscription with the The Scotsman site.

Subscribe

Registered Article !

To read this article in full you must be registered with the site.

Police spend £120,000 on a new logo



Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 20 February 2008
THERE can surely be few more distinctive sights than a police car with its lights flashing, or a beat bobbie in full uniform.

But one Scottish police force has decided it is simply not recognisable enough.

Officials at Lothian and Borders Police have come up with a new logo to tell people who they are – and have spent £120,000 in the process.

The new design will be emblazoned on police uniforms, vehicles, posters and stationery over the next few months, replacing the crest that focus groups concluded was too obscure.

But in deciding that the force's image needs to be brought into the 21st century, top brass have walked into a row, with officers and politicians branding the exercise a waste of money.

Vast amounts of stationery bearing the current crest are understood to have been dumped.

But in a clear signal of the discontent that exists within the force, the local Scottish Police Federation branch is refusing to adopt the new logo on its own headed notepaper.

One officer, who did not want to be named, said: "It is a waste of money. We read in the papers they cannot afford to pay police pensions, yet they are willing to spend all this on a new logo.

"Senior officers say they want us to have a more distinct corporate identity. But we already have an identity – we are the police, we wear a uniform everyone recognises."

The force paid tens of thousands of pounds to designers and consultants who concluded that the public did not recognise their existing logo – a traditional crest bearing a Saltire composed of blue and white checks.

Instead, the force has splashed out on a simple logo which carries the words "Lothian and Borders Police", with a curved design intended to combine the concept of protection and the force's geographical area.

A new motto, "work with us", will also be adopted by the country's second largest force, as part of what police say is an attempt to give themselves a "new tone of voice", that will include adopting a new set of core values.

However, senior officers have avoided any large-scale launch of their new brand.

Instead, it is being gradually phased in over the next few months, with police vehicles being painted with new livery when they are serviced.

New uniforms which are already being procured will carry the logo.

The new corporate identity was approved by the joint police board last month.

Iain Whyte, the convener of the Lothian and Borders joint police board, said he understood the need for the police to have a modern image – but wanted the old crest to be preserved and used in "appropriate circumstances".

Another board member, Marilyne McLaren, described the move as ridiculous, adding: "A new motto and logo is not up there in my constituents' priorities. More officers on the beat is."

And she questioned whether the rebranding gave value for money, as the chosen motto "sounds like something from a Christmas cracker".

Last night, Deputy Chief Constable Tom Halpin, who is behind the rebranding, insisted it was a "positive statement of the values of the organisation".

He added: "It reflects the modernising organisation we are within the communities that we serve. We consider this to be a modest investment which has been approved in consultation with the police board and other partners."

'IT'S NOT EXACTLY ARRESTING'

JONATHAN Gabay, a leading brand expert, yesterday gave the new police logo a distinctly mixed review.

The new brand is meant to represent the core values of the force, which include transparency, integrity, responsiveness, reassurance, respect and innovation.

Mr Gabay, who owns Brand Forensics, said: "The logo does what it says on the tin, so it certainly is transparent. The half-curve looks a bit like an umbrella so I suppose it does represent reassurance.

"It's certainly more innovative than the old crest. But on the other hand, the crest is very official and that's a vital aspect of the police. They are there to uphold the law."

He added: "As for respect, well, I just don't get it."

Mr Gabay also criticised the force's new motto, "work with us". "It sounds a bit desperate. The police are there to enforce the law, but this is more 'excuse me, I hope you don't mind if we charge you'. Overall, I wouldn't exactly describe it as arresting."




The full article contains 738 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 19 February 2008 11:34 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Law and Order
 
1

Roberta Burns,

20/02/2008 00:22:21
Outrageous. Arrest the lot of them.
2

Senga Jean,

Scotland 20/02/2008 00:33:25
Was it the Scottish flag that was the problem? A big boomerang is much more "International" Dontcha think? And a useful crime fighting tool.
3

,

20/02/2008 00:39:37
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
4

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 20/02/2008 00:42:22
Let me guess a speed camera with a smile.
5

ed.,

in edin 20/02/2008 00:50:44
I think I should become a logo designer.
6

John Blackley,

Winter Garden, FL 20/02/2008 01:18:32
Utter tosh! This is entirely symptomatic of too many senior policemen sitting in their office with too little to do.

"Senior officers say they want us to have a more distinct corporate identity. But we already have an identity – we are the police." about says it all.

Superintendents, other senior officers, if all you've got to do is sit around dreaming up ridiculous ways to spend the public's money, I've got a job for you - it's called walking the beat.
7

,

20/02/2008 01:30:13
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
8

,

20/02/2008 02:13:24
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
9

Stuart W,

Dundee 20/02/2008 02:31:42
"The new brand is meant to represent the core values of the force, which include transparency, integrity, responsiveness, reassurance, respect and innovation."

Perhaps the new brand also represents a new core value - marketing gimmicks.

10

Navvy,

20/02/2008 02:42:29
Rebranding is a disease which usually infects the perpretrator

BA Tailfins
Consignia - who
Probably the world's best small country
11

Hmm ...,

20/02/2008 02:42:32
... it's not exactly "to protect & serve" is it? Or even "Policing by Consent" - funny how we never hear anything of that these days!

I suppose that "protect and serve" doesn't meet current L&B values - "ignore crime, postal fine drivers" doesn't have the same ring to it somehow.
12

Grumpy,

20/02/2008 07:12:57
"New uniforms which are already being procured will carry the logo."

And what happens to the new (style) uniforms (which make the police look more like fugitives from boot camp) that have been issued over the last year or so?

Maybe the public would recognise the old logo more if they put more police on the streets.........
13

Ninian Reid,

Edinburgh 20/02/2008 07:13:33
I won't beat about the bush,it's a sign of the times.Public visibility is everything and,frankly, my dear,I don't give a damn if £120,000 of public money is spent in our name.It's mere coppers when you begin to grapple with the millions spent by Corporate Britain in trying to improve its tarnished,greed-driven image.Our police officers defend Scotland's capital admirably, and they've earned this makeover.
14

kamiddler,

Glasgow 20/02/2008 07:15:47
This is a bloody disgrace. What does the £120,000 cover? Does it include the cost of the time these senior officer clowns spent pricking about in the dream factory thinking about this crap? How much will it cost to actually produce the logo on stationery, uniforms,cars etc?

I'm afraid the only surprising thing about this L&B Police story is that the new logo doesn't show two policemen holding hands!
15

Yokel,

20/02/2008 07:22:07
Presumably they are hoping to attract new customers with the re-brand.
Oooo oficer that's such a nice logo, I simply must surrender.
"Work with us?" Surely they mean "Hoping y'r mates'll grass u up."
16

buller,

Macduff 20/02/2008 07:31:53
In the current climate of fortnightly bin collections,swimming pools being ''dry'',schools being closed,a lack of officers on the beat, it just shows how ''in touch with reality'' these high ranking officers really are !!!!!
17

ddmc,

20/02/2008 07:43:03
i didnt realise L&B were a corporate entity, heres me thinking that they were public servants, ho hum.
18

walter,

20/02/2008 08:06:45
If it is good enough for the exclusive to re brand itself government and produce a new logo why not Lothian and Borders police.
19

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 20/02/2008 08:11:36
What clowns they are. A total waste of money. They should be ashamed of themselves.
20

paulr,

edinburgh 20/02/2008 08:16:49
what moron allowed the police to spend £120,000 of taxpayers money to produce this peice of drivel.
21

Duncan in Edinburgh,

20/02/2008 08:21:34
Odd that there wasn't the same outcry when the Scottish Executive spent a similar amount rebranding itself (and buried the rest of the cost - running to hundreds more thousands - in other budgets.
22

Douglas,

Bathgate 20/02/2008 08:27:44
Where's the pink?
23

WKKB,

20/02/2008 08:31:46
OMG! £120K and they can't pay police pensions or bring new beat officers on board. THIS is why Scotland will never be able to stand on it's own... Those at the top are spendaholics and there will never be enough money to take care of the really important things. I'm quite sure the clever people of Scotland know just exactly who the Police are, they don't need a new logo to tell them and those who aren't so clever will find out when they see the blue lights flashing.
24

rozzerwatch2 ,

20/02/2008 08:48:08
It seems that the un-named officer shows considerably more sense than his aenior officer who is behind the rebranding - how can you rebrand the Police? Everyone knows what they do and what they are for, its not as if they are selling chocolate bars, is it.
As other posters have said, this is a complete waste of money when the Force is complaining about lack of funds for pensions etc.. Why is the Police Board allowing this profligacy? And as for some of the justification given out - what a load of meaningless corporate babble speak! Get real!
BTW, the Police Federation is a completely different organisation which does not "adopt" the Force's logo, it doesn't need to.
25

jdships,

Edinburgh 20/02/2008 08:52:28
24 WKKB,

Think you hsve got it just about right !!

The police have been around for a long time so surely we have learned to recognise one when/if we see one.
Very much like the Salvation Army - when I see a blue and red uniform I know exactly who is wearing it .
An old friend , a retired Police Superintendant , maintains 21st C police " Hide behind the uniform and the rule book which allowas them to avoid difficult situations "
Maybe with a "pink" badge things will change ( wink)
26

OLD GIN,

the KINGDOM 20/02/2008 08:59:51
AND THEY WANT MORE££££ FOR OFFICERS ON THE BEAT
27

Chris W,

20/02/2008 09:07:12
Rebranding consultants are laughing all the way to the bank at idiot corporations prepared to spend absurd amounts of money on new logos. If the police wanted a new logo why didn't they organise a competition amongst schoolchildren in the area? They'd have a got a better logo at practically zero cost. Then again someone needs to tell the police they are the police not a corporation, they should be policing not holding focus groups on logos.
28

rozzerwatch2 ,

20/02/2008 09:09:43
And further, £120 won't be the final bill - costs for fitting new iluminated and other signs for police buildings (design, manufacture, sparkies, joiners etc. etc.), a new Force flag (touchy subject!!), ...... Someone should be held to account for this.
29

rozzerwatch2 ,

20/02/2008 09:10:17
I meant £120k
30

joppa jock,

Huntingdon 20/02/2008 09:12:16
Proof, if needed, that the loonies are now running the asylum
31

Loki - The Scourge of the Schemies,

EH1 20/02/2008 09:17:23
What L&BP needs is not a new logo but more dogs! Ideally dogs with a brittle sense of humour and a profound grudge against anyone wearing a baseball cap, male jewelery or any hind of polyester 'sporting' fashion such as NIKE.
32

shivago8,

livingston 20/02/2008 09:20:40
What a gay day
33

SeriouslyAmused,

Ayr 20/02/2008 09:37:21
"The new brand is meant to represent the core values of the force, which include transparency, integrity, responsiveness, reassurance, respect and innovation."

If this is what L&B told the reporters then really, the lunacy that is endemic in modern business is now saturating wider thinking. Come up with something grand and give someone loads of money to come up with something bland - then justify it all repeatedly as if it was totally clever on all sides.

And not just a waste of money on something that can easily be whipped up on any DTP program. Please, no whining from commercial artists that much thought goes into this nonsense, for I doubt if many would swallow that tosh any more - except those in boardrooms who I think must be the stupidest, most gullible people on earth.

And as an aside, when looking at that am I imagining a campervan selling cough medicines....
34

KitWilding,

Far Away 20/02/2008 09:44:10
If you look below these comments, you will see that LBP have been reading adverts for "must haves"!
I quote,

"Customized Police Vehicles for developing countries".

Surely, a police car with the new logo is a Customized Police Vehicle.

The big word POLICE on a car tells me all I want to know.
35

Duncan in Edinburgh,

20/02/2008 09:49:19
Those complaining that LBP don't need an identity of any sort were presumably also opposed to the previous one then, the one with the crest and different font?

Every police force in Scotland has a separate identity. Are you arguing for them to be amalgamated?
36

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 20/02/2008 09:52:13
As these things don't happen overnight, can we assume that this is another piece of Tumshie 'Daffydd' Pumpkins' baggage found at the back of the closet (so to speak) (the only Chief of L & B never to get a 'Sir' during his tenure)? Poor old Tom Halpin certainly doesn't look too happy fronting up this crock of sh!t in the printed version. And I think that the 'Old' was neither a 'Crest' not a 'Logo' but a properly matriculated Coat of Arms from the Lord Lyon, the original of which is probably now in an executive lavvy on the second floor at Fettes. Twenty years ago, a colleague coined the term 'Policing by Catch-Phrase' - Plus Ca Change . . !
37

junk,

regarding no 13 20/02/2008 09:53:48
"New uniforms which are already being procured will carry the logo."

Lets hope at least the new yellow jackets are reflective enough to be seen, I saw saw someone almost knocking a bobby doon the other day, in the dark, and it wasn't deliberate :-)
38

It's me!,

20/02/2008 10:20:47
Instead of being a respected official organisation Lothian and Borders police will look like a private security firm. Deputy Chief Constable Tom Halpin should be sacked. His judgement is obviously suspect and he hasn't enough police work to occupy his work time. People who think up silly schemes like this are superfluous to policing the streets. His wages will pay for almost another two constables doing real police work. Stop this silly idea now before it costs even more.
39

Geoff,

sa 20/02/2008 10:25:29
The new logo is nice but 120 000 pounds!!!!!!!!! How does one justify such an expense. If a newspaper such as the Scotsman had run a competition or the police gave it to some first year graphic atrs students, they could have got it for next to nothing.
The money is outrageous.
40

Clive Hamblin,

Hove Sussex 20/02/2008 10:59:04
Another example of too many policemen and not enough coppers ?
41

Tris,

20/02/2008 10:59:57
#24 "OMG! £120K and they can't pay police pensions or bring new beat officers on board. THIS is why Scotland will never be able to stand on it's own... Those at the top are spendaholics"

WHAT? I can't believe I read that WKKB (although I agree with the rest of what you said). Our English masters would never have spent £120,000 on a stupid logo.... NOOOOOOOOO, ah well, that is except the Olympics one, and that was £400,000, which, as I recall, Jowell and Lord Sir Coe both said was money well spent!!!!!!! (Labour and Tory agree... must be true then.)

Anyway, I'd like to know why the police need a logo. I mean they aren't a commercial organisation, they aren't in competition with another organisation, and even the least intelligent amongst us knows they exist and more or less what they are for, and we can recognise them on the rare occasions that we see them on our streets.

Oh, and another question... of Shivago8 (#33). Can you explain what's gay about the police wasting £120,000 on a rebranding?
42

Alasdair MacWhirter,

looking for a crayon 20/02/2008 11:10:41
I do hope the pre school playgroup that came up with this logo and motto will spend their £120,000 wisely.
43

Geoff,

sa 20/02/2008 11:10:56
49 Tris-the Olympic logo was an equal waste of money. This has nothing to do with the Scotland-England thing -its about the outrageous waste of taxpayers money everywhere. As to"our English masters"-you mean like Broon,Broone,Darling etc.?
44

Geoff,

sa 20/02/2008 11:10:56
49 Tris-the Olympic logo was an equal waste of money. This has nothing to do with the Scotland-England thing -its about the outrageous waste of taxpayers money everywhere. As to"our English masters"-you mean like Broon,Broone,Darling etc.?
45

Ellie,

Edinburgh 20/02/2008 11:13:38
They must be bored and wondering "what can I do today, I know, retail therapy - it always makes my wife feel better"
46

Silence of the Yams,

20/02/2008 11:15:14
Sheridan and co want to see a white flag! No chance mate!
47

Geoff,

sa 20/02/2008 11:15:17
49 Tris-whats gay about the Police wasting 120 000 pounds? Maybe what he was inferring was that this is excessive attention to detail. Inasmuch as one can attribute characteristics to identifiable groups then it is true that many of my wifw and my gay friends are exceedingly fastidious about their homes for example. Just making a comparison to illustrate a point
48

Geoff,

sa 20/02/2008 11:18:52
54-wrong blog surely? As the matter is 'sub judice'presumethis is why no comment allowed.
49

Copper,

Falkirk 20/02/2008 11:37:44
Who is responsible for this ???

The days of faceless people wasting vaste ammounts of public money are finished
It is always about the pay backs from the contracts anyway
The logo design is peanuts compared to the the new paper printing the uniforms the repainted transport the new signs etc eyc etc

Who is responsable NOW ???
50

Andy Loates,

Rotherham UK 20/02/2008 11:45:14
"Senior officers say they want us to have a more distinct corporate identity. But we already have an identity – we are the police, we wear a uniform everyone recognises."

The Police are public servants and should not be allowed to have a 'corporate logo'. As the officer rightly states they are The Police. The very word 'Police' should be logo enough. Show me one person anywhere on this planet that does not recognise a British Police uniform and I'll show you someone who has only just been born. For the love of Christ even people in the darkest reaches of North Korea are familiar with the British 'bobby on the beat'.

As for the badge, well that is simply a badge of office to show the person wearing it is a servant of the Crown empowered to arrest those suspected of committing a crime. The very fact that senior Police officers feel their force needs a corporate logo simply illuminates the business culture that has been forced upon Police forces across the land.

Investors in People or whatever they have these days? Is this a joke? The Police are here to maintain public order and uphold the laws as passed by Parliament. The only Investors in People sh*t I want to see from them is "You're f*cking nicked me beauty"

What will be next? South Yorkshire Police Plc? BritishTransportPolice (BTP)? Borders and Lothian Police and Public Awareness and Empowerment Ltd?

Andy L
51

Tris,

20/02/2008 11:52:04
Re 52 (and 55) Geoff.


"49 Tris-the Olympic logo was an equal waste of money. This has nothing to do with the Scotland-England thing -its about the outrageous waste of taxpayers money everywhere. As to"our English masters"-you mean like Broon,Broone,Darling etc.?"

Yeah Geoff, I meant them, our English masters, although in fairness to them, at the time Blair was there too, and of course you have to remember His Nobleness and Ms Jowell, who actually authorised the expenditure.

I only mentioned the England Scotland thing Geoff, because the person I was quoting at the beginning seemed to think that this kind of folly was an exclusively Scottish thing, and would stop us becoming independent. I was pointing out that it happened elsewhere, notable the place from where we are ruled.

As for the gay thing, I guess I see the connection, and really I was just having a go back at the author of the post. It seemed an unpleasant slur, and a bit of a pointless comment to make. I too know gay guys who are presentation oriented.

But, as it happens, I also have relatives in the Army (not a traditionally gay occupation) who are fanatical about neatness and presentation, to the point of madness really.

Interesting huh?
52

Duncan in Edinburgh,

20/02/2008 12:02:23
#59 and #55 I suspect in reality the references to sexuality are because there have been one or two stories in the EEN recently about police and the gay community, the most significant one being that L&B was named as the best employer in Scotland for gay people last year. Unfortunately the comments sections of most of those stories degenerated into mindless homophobia, and some posters are frustrated that as a result, the comments were removed wholesale and their opportunity to poke fun was denied.
53

kimba,

20/02/2008 12:09:36
Seems the Lothian & Borders police have more money than sense! CATCH THE CRIMINALS,then you will be noticed.
54

Jocknroll,

Caledonia 20/02/2008 12:20:06
"The rationale behind the logo and logotype are as follows:
- Graphic mark refers to the “Battenburg” associated with Police
- Contains two plus signs created by negative space
- Curved element alludes to the Lothian and Borders region on the map of Scotland
- Logotype and graphic mark designed to be used separately
- Modern timeless typography
- Logotype designed to be read in full and as an acronym i.e. LBP"

The darker version of the logo, used on letterheads, is better.

There are pros and cons to the creation of a corporate identity but I'm not convinced that the quoted figure, if it is indeed correct, is money well spent. Graphic design (and property management) seem to be a licence to print money.

It's too simplistic to suggest that the money could be spent on getting more officers on the streets but it is a valid concern.

The powers that be should be more concerned with the number of negative stories being published about L&B, which are damaging Force morale.
55

marco gormanovitchski,

Polska 20/02/2008 12:46:21
There's been a murder...
56

Geoff,

sa 20/02/2008 12:54:13
59 Tris-thanks for your reply. Perhaps we all take ourselves too seriously-I thought the gay comment was a little harmless fun. I think we are in agreement on the other issues-my comment about the "England-Scotland" thing was where i differ with you and other ScotsNats. I disagree that England is Scotlands master-Scots are represented in the Union out of all proportion to their numbers-due to their skill and talent in most fields. Naturally Englands size in relation to the other partners would lead to English dominance in some areas. I am a Unionist who believes in a federal solution for the UK. With a new dispensation along these lines each Home Country could run its own internal affairs -including England(!) without jettisoning the benefits and ties of kinship that our Union has developed over centuries. I know that virtually all ScotsNats see things as an all or nothing situation. This saddens me.
57

Declan,

Glasgow 20/02/2008 12:56:28
The new logo is supposed to be bringing L&BP into the 21st century - it looks like something Juliet Bravo would have used on her car. I think it looks like something from the 70's
58

TheSmith,

20/02/2008 13:21:12
Only a brand expert could work out that the semi circle thing stands for respect etc etc. To me it looks like a pacman eating a flower.
59

Charibdys,

Edinburgh 20/02/2008 13:26:22
As has been said the Police are Public Servants, Officers of the Crown within the Community and Realm of Scotland. We are not a business, we produce nothing, we make no profit. This ridiculous carry on has been done by fools who; a) learned about policing from a book. b) have a total inability to say "Yea, that looks rubbish. What are we actually doing here?" And admit they have got it wrong. L&B have gone down the drain in the last 28 years. They are a disgrace and a laughing stock. This just perpetuates the "Busineses" and "Customer" Nonsense. We cannot be all things to all people. And the children at the top should stop trying to be everyones pal.
60

cabrach loon,

inverness 20/02/2008 13:28:40
let them pay for it out of their own pockets, better to have 6 more bobbies on the beat than this nonsense.
Who on earth let the contract how and why? A few pricy lunches or dinners / as usual it smells bad!

Another clean out at the top needed and a National police force rather than county ones!
61

cabrach loon,

inverness 20/02/2008 13:36:55
of course now everyone including police, pseudo police, navvies, scaffies and no doubt terrorists are encased in stiff stupid health and safety yellow coverups so who is who. Based on one recent expeience in England where pseudo police stood by and a man drowned it seems to reinforce the colour of cowardice - police uniforms are no longer visible and last time I asked a bobbie the way it was sorry but I'm a stranger here - God help us, ten years of nulab has destroyed the UK and Cameron is not the man to put it together again, poor humpty dumty Britain! Maybe Salmond can do some good for Scotland though if he can send Wendy back to never never land!
62

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 20/02/2008 13:36:57
Roberta Burns

Are you on drugs? SOme of your comments are definitely "special".

The new logo is too bland - dark blue and light blue on a white background. How the hell can you see it in the dark on a police cruiser unless it is lit up with a million candle-power torch?

Whatever design firm formulated this branding must have been awash in valium and booze. It is TOO BLAND!
63

Tris,

20/02/2008 13:38:26

64 Geoff. How nice it is on this forum to be able to disagree in a civilised way. Thanks for that mate.

I'm not a rabid Nationalist. I just want a reasonable country to live in, where the needs of the many outweigh the wants of the top lot. Dreams?.... yeah of course, but I think there is more chance of that in Scotland (because it's smaller and more socialist in make-up, and less likely to want to run the world along with the US).

I certainly have nothing against the English. I have close friends who are English, and my biggest hero is English, and I'll be there later ths year, and happy to be.

The trouble about the representation, which in some ways is skewed, at the moment with a PM, a chancellor, a defence secretary and several others up top who are Scottish (and not really doing a very good job), is that, in other ways it is balanced very much against us. We have fewer than 60 MPs in a parliament with over 600 members, and whilst this may be proportionate to our population, it is, none-the-less, not a big voice when the REALLY important matters of state... defence, finance, social security, etc, are being discussed and voted upon. When, as it is eventually inevitable the Conservatives form the UK government, it is possible, even probable, that our country will not have a single representative in the ruling party.

Labour's devolution could have been handled better, and, I agree with you a federal set up with a parliament in England would have perhaps made some difference. It would almost certainly have reduced the English's resentment of the situation. In the end, however, I'm not sure that it would work. I favour independence in the EU.

However, it's nice to be able to have a rational conversation about it, and agree to disagree.

Now that was well off topic. What about this bloody logo....? Pile of pants or what?

LOL
64

Geoff,

sa 20/02/2008 13:52:44
73 Tris-pile of pants isnt the word! As to your post-nothing I could argue with there-your case is well reasoned to a fault! As one commentator said about a year back its largely a matter of the heart-I was brought up in a very different Britain that moulded my identity as British despite my Scots ethnicity and schooling in Ireland,England and the tail end of empire in central Africa-all the aforementioned being regarded as British first. Maybe in the end, the EU will be our new Union though I must say I cant feel any sense of European patriotsm yet!
Must dash-off to excercise for an hour to justify my couple of beers. Spk to u later mate
65

Tris,

Dundee 20/02/2008 13:55:03

Oops, having ranted on like that in the last post, I did forget to say....

Whether or not the logo is good, nice, says what people want it to say about the whole culture or ethos of the police, there remains the fact that my mum, who is a pensioner, is scared to go out after dark. That means that for a big part of the year she can't go to evening service at the church, or attend any of the other activities that she would like to. (And she refuses lifts for me and my brother, whom she says have our own lives to lead.)

In the meantime, instead of tackling the management of this problem... you know the drinking problems of 14 year olds, the fact that every street corner is a meeting place for a pile of teens with nothing else to do, and intimidating to frail elderly ladies, and a whole pile of other street crime, the managers in the police are worrying about their corporate image.

Says it all really. Much easier to deal with that... now do you think that blue is a tad too dark? ... does it clash... does it say something about us....

It certainly does guys.

We're paying you. GET SOME BLOODY WORK DONE!
66

Patrick Joseph Cullinane,

Harrow, Middlesex. 20/02/2008 14:00:19
"Officials at Lothian and Borders Police have come up with a new logo to tell people who they are – and have spent £120,000 in the process."

In the public interest these 'public servants' must be arrested and charged with wasting police time, abusing their position and defrauding the taxpayer.

From reading the independent comments to this article it is incontrovertibly clear that the Court of Public Opinion has ruled overwhelmingly that they want these ‘public servants’ brought to justice immediately for their fraud on the public.

Will the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) now ensure that the Police Officer involved in this FRAUD are brought to justice forthwith, as it is the peoples’ wishes???
67

Duncan in Edinburgh,

20/02/2008 14:00:34
#68 Well it is certainly of interest to me. If it isn't to you then perhaps you shouldn't worry too much about it.

You appear to have an image of police as being the public's physical security operatives. This has never exclusively been the case, and is less the case now than ever. Police expend a great deal of effort in crime prevention and intelligence gathering, which requires a wide range of skills and means that any improvements in their recruitment abilities are to be welcomed.

I would far prefer effective crime prevention than brute force responses to crimes that have already happened. Wouldn't you?
68

Duncan in Edinburgh,

20/02/2008 14:05:09
#76 You really think these comments are representative of public opinion (50-odd - and I mean odd - self-selecting folk with an inflated sense of their own self-importance) then you are horribly mistaken.
69

Miss Jean Brodie,

20/02/2008 14:09:43
Funnily enough - I was begining to think my uniform of Hoopy Black top - little black eye mask and swag bag was needing a make-over as well - I’ll pay the ‘star of india’ to the best suggestion.
70

AlecJ,

Aberdeen 20/02/2008 14:43:40
Is it possible to surcharge the senior policemen and councillors who were involved in going down this new badge route? The money recovered from them could then be used for PROPER police work.
71

Jayess,

Edinburgh 20/02/2008 14:46:42
The British army, recognised as one of the most effective in the world, was run by its NCOs(corporals, sergeants, and Warrant officers with chips on their shoulders).

Commissioned officers (peaked caps with pips on their shoulders) were mostly front-office place-men, there to take the blame or the credit for the work of those above and below them.

I regret that the trouble with L&BP is that the former have allowed the latter to take control. Too many graduates and not enough grunts, so they now all work on figures and forms, rather than boldness and initiative.
72

Flash67,

Edinburgh 20/02/2008 15:33:15
The Scottish SPCA are also wasting thousands on a similar process, coming up with a logo that is virtually identical to the current one - thousands of pounds of stationery, rebranding of the charity's vans, animal centres etc.... grrrrr....
73

Resolutions,

20/02/2008 15:37:26
What a waste of money! That is what 'the logo' conveys - that and we are a group of silly kids having a caper. 21st Century indeed. Perhaps it is time for the police - all forces - to get into the Real World.

And for all of those spitting vitiol about the Sheridan lot - INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY in a court of law, I hope still holds true. In view of the gutter-based thing that passes for media's record about 'truth',who are trying to wriggle out of stumping up damages, I look forward with interest as to what comes out in court.
But perhaps the police are still in virtual reality world?
74

,

20/02/2008 16:00:47
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
75

Duncan in Edinburgh,

20/02/2008 16:16:13
#86 Well that's ten minutes of my life I'll never get back.

You walked up to a security officer in Edinburgh Airport and told him he was doing a crap job, and that if you were a terrorist you would blow up the whole airport, and proceeded to explain how. And you wonder why you were arrested for breach of the peace?

Get over yourself.
76

Duncan in Edinburgh,

20/02/2008 16:20:37
#87 Actually that's the whole point - *not* giving a hoot with regard to sexuality. LBP have proved themselves to be particularly good at precisely that. So you should be pleased. You must have misunderstood the award - they weren't being praised for employing a lot of gay people, they were being praised for policies which essentially ensure that they "don't give a hoot with regards to a coppers sexuality, race, religion or whatever as long as they are doing their job and upholding the law". So I guess you must be fully supportive then?

You are right that what most people *fear* most is violent crime. Yet violent crime is dropping, especially in the LPB force area. Which is because of their strong intelligence-led crime prevention strategy. So I think we should be glad of the pen pushing profilers and leaflet distributors - they are preventing violent crime instead of having to deal with it.
77

I'mallymax,

Orwell's back door. 20/02/2008 16:26:31
hey halpin, you feckin tiwat; 'corporate identity', who do you think you are?

The Scottish government should reign these tiwats in. All the Scottish public institutions desperately need audited for operational and financial expenditure, these aswholes can't be trusted to thibk for themselves.
Tiwat!
78

I'mallymax,

Orwell's back garden. 20/02/2008 16:36:30
Whatever happened to integrity and honesty in the police service, (oxymoron). Now they police by sneaking about through all your personal stuff. It's called 'intelligence- led' policing.

Intelligence-led policing is where they build up profiles of citizens. First what they do is nick you for anything, nothing, through you in jail swab you for DNA, then process your background by sneaking through all your peronal items like your wallet, bank accounts, address, and all your friends and relatives. They then feed all this 'intelligence' into their computer and see if any of it comes up with a match to anything they feel they can rip you with. If not, they let you go saying you should be gratefull for them depriving you of your citizens civil rights, time, trauma, and persoanl information they just stole. This is what happens to thousands of citizens every week in Scotland.

These coppers are getting huge salaries, benefits, and a whacking huge pension by ripping the pi** out the Scots public.
79

Chris,

Edinburgh 20/02/2008 16:40:49
"The new brand is meant to represent the core values of the force, which include transparency, integrity, responsiveness, reassurance, respect and innovation."
Well the new logo could be described as "innovative", but my problem is with the other core values put forward. Over the past few years none of these values seem to have been exhibited by L&BP force as a general rule. If anything, the opposite.
If the force could guarantee that they can exhibit the core values first and fancy new logos second, we might all be happier citizens ready to "work with" them.
80

FLUB,

a rocky outcrop in eastern central Scotland 20/02/2008 16:49:30
There's a QPM in this for someone! 'Services to Policing' I'll wager...
81

Duncan in Edinburgh,

20/02/2008 16:53:57
#91 I did read the whole story. Hence the ten minutes.

You were denied your medication because you had no proof that it was prescribed. That is standard practice. Your other complaints are largely sour grapes.

I'm afraid you come across as someone whose own actions led to their problems, and who instead of creating ten different web sites to complain about it and writing incessantly to police officers who frankly have better things to do, should just learn their lesson and get on with their life.

I'm sorry you had an uncomfortable time in police custody. Next time don't mouth off about blowing our airport up.
82

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 20/02/2008 17:46:13
Phew! I could have knocked up that excuse for a logo in about 10 minutes. But £120K would have bought say 3 polis on the beat for a year. I know which option I'd take.

What was wrong with the old one (assuming they had one) or even the word "Lothian and Borders Police" in bold letters - err, oh yes, I see that's in the logo.
83

I'mallymax,

Orwell's desk. 20/02/2008 17:49:03
#84, I agree wholeheartedly about your stance on the Sheridan thing. Why is not 'commentable' in these wires? I bet angiolini has put her mark on this one.

scotland's coppers are the crown's lick-spittle poodles. This obviously smacks of 'elitism' at work. Goes like this; Roo Murdoch calls up Des Browne and says get your lick-spittles to put the collar on this bloke, he's not getting away with telling the truth. So Des Browne phones up elish angiolini, (scotland's supposed lord advocate), and tells her to set the lick-spittle coppers on tommy sheridan, and all his family. So the lick-spittle coppers have a 9 hour meeting to make sure they don't send half their police force round to the Sheridan's house and fleg the bairn again. So they release it through the media, then the coppers say they have arrested more law-abiding Scots citizens.

Makes you thankfull the engerlund McNuLab's are operating right here in the crown office in scotland. And the lick-spittle coppers get a huge salary, benefits, and pension for doing the dirty. An audit is need of all our Scottish public institutions to weed out the McNuLab cronies, the engerlund crown divide and conquer offices, (angiolini), and the polis, who obviously love sticking it to Scotland's finest, it's citizens.

Vote SNP for a better, fairer independent Scotland.
84

tyson,

Severna Park 20/02/2008 17:58:09
What a completely stupid waste of ratepayer's money.
85

Geoff,

sa 20/02/2008 18:06:13
100?
86

Andrew Allan,

20/02/2008 18:08:22
If it is indeed your aim to some day be part of a fully integrated british police force, and not just a Scottish one, lose the Scottish flag on your logo. What will those cheeky unionists think of next?
87

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 20/02/2008 18:08:49
Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't £120,000 more or less pay for two extra constables to patrol our streets for a year?

Nuts to their logo. The word "POLICE" emblazoned on the sides of cars and vans and the backs of day-go jackets says it all.

Maybe it's done so that the underhand letters they send out to motorists who are victims of roadside money manking devices can look a bit different.
88

Resolutions,

20/02/2008 18:44:28
#98 Thanks for your comments re Sheridan and the laugh at your description of the cpos at 'work'.

Got the answer as to the logo - did they get the wee bairn to do it while terrorising her folk?

Another force is cutting numbers of 'big wigs' to put more on the beat. It seems the Lothian lot need to follow suit. It seems there are far too many 'pen pushers' without the street cred required to be effective. How can they know what is going on without having a set of flappy ears and interacting with the public? Some money of that 120k could go towards decent notebooks(remember them?),pavement boots, waterproofs for outdoor work and so on, could it not?

A good public audit of 'value for money policing' is essential.
89

neutral,

Edinburgh 20/02/2008 18:51:07
For a full explanation of what the new logo is about read this - and weep.

http://surepr.blogspot.com/2008/02/life-and-grimes-of-lothian-and-borders.html
90

Charlie Delta,

Embra 20/02/2008 19:08:25
#62 Jocknroll

"Curved element alludes to the Lothian and Borders region on the map of Scotland"

Have I missed something, but to me this "curved element" doesn't look the Lothian and Borders region I know. Have the geographic boundaries of these areas morphed into one pacman-esque bullet?

Besides the logo being a waste of money, it looks like a draft logo attempt rather than a final polished version. How did something so bland get approved by the "Police board"? Surely the design company (who are interestingly not named in this article) must have produced a selection of logos, was this really the best one?
91

TPMurphy,

Upstate NY 20/02/2008 19:23:19
And here I thought all the lunacy resided in America! Thousands for logos and millions for a pretty face to read the news? American loonies long ago decided that image was more important than substance and now it seems that at least some in Scotland feel the need to catch up with the crazies. That's too bad for you, 'cause it ain't a good thing!! Is there any stupidity from the US that the rest of the world will not adopt?!?!
92

Jed Zeppelin,

Dundee 20/02/2008 20:37:08
I'm a Graphic Designer by Trade but clearly work for the wrong people. Can someone point me in the direction of the company who had the cajones to charge the L&B polis 120K for this so called re-brand! hahahaha ...on second thoughts, fair do's to them - not many folk get anything off the polis these days other than a threat of 'breach of the peace'.

to any polis reading: I'll do your whole corp/brand identity for a mere 100K... interested? :O)
93

Duncan in Edinburgh,

20/02/2008 21:36:56
#105 The irony was entirely intentional; I explicitly included my own comments. Few people have a more inflated sense of their own importance than I.
94

john z,

edinburgh 20/02/2008 23:31:12
This is a joke - isn't it?? I mean they really seriously didn't do this - did they???

The money could have paid for two REAL policemen (or around 500 PCSO's or whatever the kiddie on police are called).