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Protesting monks dash China's show of peace in Tibet



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Published Date: 28 March 2008
A GROUP of monks overturned a carefully orchestrated visit for foreign reporters to Tibet's capital, an embarrassment for the Chinese government struggling yesterday to prove Lhasa was calm.
The government had arranged the trip to show how peaceful Lhasa was after riots shattered China's plans for a peaceful run-up to the Beijing Olympic Games in August.

But the outburst by a group of 30 monks in red robes came as the journalists we
re being shown around the Jokhang Temple – one of Tibet's holiest shrines – by Chinese government handlers.

"Tibet is not free! Tibet is not free!" yelled one young Buddhist monk, who then started to cry.

They insisted their exiled spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, had nothing to do with the anti-government riots in Lhasa, where buildings were burned and looted and ethnic Han Chinese were attacked.

Officials shouted for the journalists to leave and tried to pull them away.

"They want us to curse the Dalai Lama, and that is not right," one monk said during the 15-minute outburst.

"This had nothing to do with the Dalai Lama," said another, referring to the 14 March riots in which the Chinese government says 22 people died, while Tibetan exiles claim the death toll is 140.

Reporters were earlier taken to a Tibet medical clinic that was attacked by protesters and were shown a clothes shop where five girls had been trapped and burned to death.

The monks, who first spoke Tibetan and then switched to Mandarin so journalists could understand them, said they knew they would probably be arrested.

Troops who had been guarding the temple were removed the night before the visit, they said. One monk said authorities planted other monks in the monastery to talk to the journalists, calling them "not true believers but… Communist Party members."

"They are all officials, they (the government] arranged for them to come in. And we aren't allowed to go out because they say we could destroy things, but we never did anything," another monk said.



Later the Chinese-installed vice-governor of Tibet said the Jokhang monks were confined to the monastery because some had joined protesters. He promised they would not be punished for their outburst.





The full article contains 378 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 27 March 2008 11:36 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 02:05:02
"Reporters were earlier taken to a Tibet medical clinic that was attacked by protesters and were shown a clothes shop where five girls had been trapped and burned to death."

Wonderful, peaceful Tibetans
2

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta ...smell the burn. 28/03/2008 03:07:35
Dude , read excerpt below, from BBC reporters who were in Tibet.

Explain why ur communist CCP hand-picked the reporters.

Sounds like the CCP are tyrants and sh*t scared of freedom of expression.

"Reporters hand-picked by China's government arrive in Lhasa, China, marking the beginning of an organized tour of the region following violent demonstrations that erupted earlier this month."


Dude,
Over the past few weeks, I have read u posts and those of P45 and the Dragonhead, (who has disappeared from the radar screen).

And I have no proof that one of U, or all three of U, are trained pawns, in an army of train pawns, let loose on the internet by ur masters the communist CCP.

But the more I read u scribes, the more they sound like responses by trained pawns to me.

So now, my gut feel is ,that U three are indeed trained pawns, of the CCP.

P45 is getting so transparent, he is failing in his attempt to convince me, and possible other posters, that he is not a trained CCP pawn.

Therefore, I will no longer waste my time, answering any further posts from U bunch of trained pawns, of the CCP

Happy NON-Freedom day for Ur crushed 1.3 billion citizens.

GC
3

britfreee,

28/03/2008 03:35:31
#2 GC can't be trusted. GC uses illegal drugs and thinks Bush & Cheney are evil, GC is a nutter.
4

,

28/03/2008 04:52:17
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
5

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA........captured from Mexico 1845 28/03/2008 04:54:53
#4 contd:

50 United States Code, Section 1805.

These provisions are detailed in "The Impeachment of George W. Bush: A Practical Guide for Concerned Citizens," by former Rep. Elizabeth Holtzman.


GC
6

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 05:48:04
#2
Dude, I don't really care if you read my posts or not. Bummer hey.
The journalists were hand picked probably because their reports didn't lie about the earlier unrest, or because they already had security clearance or whatever. Hey, they chose to go. I was offered a tour of Guantanamo Bay prison - where the US and UK continue to hold prionsers illegaly - and I refused. It's as simple as that.
You know nothing of China, you just like to see your stuff written in public. That's fair enough. But dude, you need to look at the cr*p your press is spewing out and exercise some judgement on your own. Ask yourself a few simple questions and you'll begin to see the truth emerge.
I salute your efforts to impeach Bushi, I think he should be made mayor of Baghdad.
7

Bob Christie,

Boycott the Beijing Olympics 28/03/2008 07:33:49
Will the apologist for the pariah-regime in China, Mrs Mashimaro (above) please fulfill my request of yesterday and post the web-address of newspapers in mainland China which will allow us to post our comments so that the wider Chinese population on the mainland can participate in this debate?
8

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 08:11:29
#7 You are obviously confusing me with your personal servant you colonialist upstart. Do your own legwork for a change. Oh, and while you're doing that, pay my respects to Bob Mugabe, will you.
9

Bob Christie,

Boycott the Beijing Olympics 28/03/2008 08:29:24
I'll take your abusive reply as a No then. I mean that your pariah-government does not permit such free speech in the the press.
I'd be better then dealing with the legitimate Chinese government in Taiwan!
10

Bob Christie,

Boycott the Beijing Olympics 28/03/2008 09:01:04
#8
How interesting you wish to pay respect to Mugabe, but YOU will need to do that yourself. Probably at the next convocation of World Despots of which the renegade mainland China must be the head!
11

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 09:01:31
Here Bob, knock yourself out.

http://bbs.sina.com.cn/
12

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 09:02:13
And while you're at it, FREE TAIWAN
13

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 09:08:10
#8 You whiney human rights advocates put him there. You whiney human rights advocates broke the best government that country has had. You made your government weak, and you're doing exactly the same thing now You obviously never learn, and you won't until you are disenfranchised and taken over by a more aggressive society. For your sake I pray it is us.
14

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 09:49:55
A few facts about Tibet you might have overlooked.

#1 The 14th Dalai Lama, like all his predecessors, was the biggest serf-owner. He owned every inch of land and every head of cattle in Tibet and was free to exploit -- even sell off -- his serfs and slaves.

#2 The monks complain of having no religious rights, but the central government has allocated more than 700 million yuan (97 million US dollars) since 1980 to maintain 1,400 monasteries and cultural relics.

#3 Tibet now has more than 1,700 religious sites for Tibetan Buddhism that accommodate 460,000 monks and nuns, four mosques with 3,000 muslims, and a Tibetan Catholic Church for 700 believers.
#4 Latest figures say 100 percent of farmers and herders, who account for more than 80 percent of the Tibetan population, get free medical care.
15

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 09:56:10
THE BIG LIE

The monks, who claimed to be eyewitnesses to the alleged “killing of more than 100 Tibetans and arrests of more than 1,000”, also complained of having been confined at the temple from March 10 to March 26, while the riots took place on and after March 14.
None of the foreign reporters on the scene seemed to have noticed the contradiction -- that if confined they couldn’t have witnessed what they claimed he had.

THE TOLL
The death toll released from the so called "government in exile" in the northern India hilltop town Dharamsala, has confusing. It varied between 99 and “hundreds” for two weeks before they decided to put it somewhere between 135 and 140 - careful not to mention who had been killed.
In fact at least 18 civilians and one police officer died in Lhasa alone, 623 people were injured. Of those not a single one was Tibetan.


16

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 09:59:11
WHERE THE WORLD STANDS

Karma Chophel, the “speaker” of the “Tibetan parliament in exile” on Thursday lobbied for support at the United Nations Human Rights Council. Not one of the 47 states that sit on the Council put forward a resolution on the issue, nor was any request made for a special session on Tibet.
* xinhua, AFP



17

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 10:17:52
So all of you who are screaming for "democratic" rights, should ask yourselves how Tibetans would have democratic rights under the Dalai Lama
18

Biker,

Ayr 28/03/2008 10:40:35
Mashimaro. Hey Dude your getting a little heated under the collar there. Now that we have some sort of web address for your paper perhaps we can post our thoughts on your pages.
If China wishes to operate within a 21century global comunity perhaps its time the Chinese brought their record up to date and began addressing the issues brought to them by The UN, Amnesty International, The Witness program and all the rest of the WORLDWIDE human rights organisations.
It only takes a small turn of the worm to remove all the investment from China and move it elsewhere.
Interesting point you make about Robert Mugabe though. As one of Chinas funding oprerations, Zimbabwe is closer to you lot than the rest of the civilised world.
Your comment about not allowing the press to be recieved in Tibet was laughable at best. Asa suposed "newspaper" man you could do better.
19

Pmonkey7,

28/03/2008 10:42:18
More 'facts' from marshmallow.

Where do you get all your 'facts'?

Anyone watching 'A Year in Tibet' on BBC? Gives a great perspective on how people in the area live and work.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/page/item/b009lvdy.shtml
20

Deuchars,

Edinburgh 28/03/2008 11:14:37
4 GalacticCannibal

You are delusional just like Guga and bill2. I feel sorry for you being full of hate and wrong information.
21

Biker,

Ayr 28/03/2008 11:17:29
Mashimaro. Bob Christie asked for a paper in your area where we could post comments. Your a clever little appologist aint you? First of all there is no direct english equivelent and secd I think its a local free sheet full of advertising.
Tell us about "your" paper Mushy. Give us an english equivelent so we can understand your point of view.
Sadly Mashimaro your credibility, much like that of your leaders is gone. I understand the intellectuals within China are now asking the government to conduct talks with the Dali Lama, or have you not yet been informed of that.
Your point number 2 in post 15 is interestingg. All that money to maintain the temples? Are these the same temples the Chinese army destroyed in the 50s?
No one is suggesting that the Dali Lama is the answer to Tibets problems, mearly that China stomping all over them and filling the lands with Han Chinese is not the answer either.
Oh by the way Mashimaro, I understand that the Han Chinese were offered free medical cover simply for moving to the are.
22

Neil,

Glasgow 28/03/2008 11:21:16
I saw that at the end of thios news item on C4 yesterday they did mention that the Chinese media were accusing the west of distortion. They even put up a newspaper showing one of the photos refered to here a couple of days ago as having been cropped to show an individaul proteting, removing the brick throwing mob just behind him. However since it was only on for a second, the newspaper was in chinese & C4 made no attempt to explain exactly what had happened nobody who had not seen it on Youtube would have realised what had happened.
23

,

28/03/2008 11:56:08
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
24

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 12:05:21
#Biker:
"Now that we have some sort of web address for your paper perhaps we can post our thoughts on your pages."

It's not my paper but go right ahead.


"If China wishes to operate within a 21century global comunity perhaps its time the Chinese brought their record up to date and began addressing the issues brought to them by The UN, Amnesty International, The Witness program and all the rest of the WORLDWIDE human rights organisations."

Why? China has the support of most countries in this world. Why would we listen to a few old spineless colonialist who can't even protect their own country?

"It only takes a small turn of the worm to remove all the investment from China."

You wish. You people are too full of self interest and too greedy to give up China.

"Interesting point you make about Robert Mugabe though. As one of Chinas funding oprerations, Zimbabwe is closer to you lot than the rest of the civilised world."

You bleeding heart liberals enthroned him. You broke the best government for the country with your whining and carrying on. You did the same thing in South Africa. And guess what... We'll collect there too, thanks ;)

"Your comment about not allowing the press to be recieved in Tibet was laughable at best. Asa suposed "newspaper" man you could do better."

Not really dude, Beijing won't be dictated to by anyone.
25

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 12:09:36
#23 Not for lack of trying hmm. Turning your guns on the Red Chinese as soon as the bomb was dropped on Japan. Denying Nanjing. Protecting the Taiwan invaders. Paying off Tibetans to die. Keeping Korea apart. Drawing China into conflict all over Asia each time some poor peasants decided to stand up for themselves. It must really stick in your craw that China is so great.
26

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 12:14:17
#21 Okay I laughed so hard milk came out my nose.

"First of all there is no direct english equivelent and secd I think its a local free sheet full of advertising."

IT'S CHINA DUDE, CATCH A CLUE. DIDN'T YA LEARN PEOPLE IN CHINA SPEAK CHINESE?
27

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 12:19:50
"Are these the same temples the Chinese army destroyed in the 50s?"

Dude you wouldn't believe the number of temples a despotic leader with absolute and utter power creates. He's got to put the money somewhere as he never put it into trivial stuff like education, food, medical help. I mean gold is just so much better on Buddha's belly than going to feed real people's bellies, right?
28

James Donald,

Newbridge 28/03/2008 12:27:01
#25 Mashimaro,Red China - "Not for lack of trying" - Yes for the lack of trying; the West did not try hard enough to crush Red scum.
"It must really stick in your craw that China is so great" - At least you do not lack a sense of humour.
www.chinaisevil.com
29

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 12:42:42

"No one is suggesting that the Dali Lama is the answer to Tibets problems."

Oh, goody at least we agree on something.

", mearly that China stomping all over them and filling the lands with Han Chinese is not the answer either. "
Filling their lands with Han? er, I don't think so. Would you care to give us an ethnic population breakdown there, Biker?

"Oh by the way Mashimaro, I understand that the Han Chinese were offered free medical cover simply for moving to the are."

The free medical cover pertains to ethnic Tibetan herders, awful as Beijing in, it does try to look after its people, even when they try to start civil wars.
I don't know if it applies to Han Chinese, I don't think so because under the government in those days medical cover would have been pretty inexpensive anyway.
OUr government does offer people incentives to move to other places both in and outside of its borders.

It's interesting to note that in 1951 life expectancy in Tibet was 35.5 years. These days it's around 67. Curse those Chinese.

The one-child policy has been applied only to Han living in Tibet, while Tibetans were excluded from such requirement.
30

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 12:43:55
#28 Sad sad gwei. I hope you've learned how to say Yes Comrade in Putonghua.
31

ldopas,

cheshire 28/03/2008 12:56:04
14 Mashimaro,China 28/03/2008 09:49:55

So what if those negative facts about Tibet are true? Why are you interested, it isnt your country? It belongs to Tibetans.

So what if you think youve somehow helped the care system there? Though Im pretty sure that invasion and oppression arent the only ways to help another ocuntry's health problems. Its not your country.

The plain fact is that you are occupying their country, get out!

It seems strange that you fling Iraq etc at us, and I agree we shouldnt be there, but then conclude illogically that somehow your invasion is justified. Ridiculous, its the same thing.

But the best bits that had me chuckling is you trying to paint China up as some bastion of saithood in the world after its record of blatant human rights violations and undemocratic oppression. Fantastic...not.
32

,

28/03/2008 13:00:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
33

Bob Christie,

Boycott the Beijing Olympics 28/03/2008 13:12:32
Mashimallo!

In response to what you told Biker at#26 there is NO problem. YOU tell US which Chinese Newspapers will allow US to post comments about the despotic pariahs who run your country and I will GUARANTEE any poster on this site to have those comments translated for publication.

Now please tell us which NEWSPAPERS will allow us to publish comments on their web-sites.
Also please tell us which TV and radio stations will carry interviews which any of us will freely give them?
34

Bob Christie,

Boycott the Beijing Olympics 28/03/2008 13:16:24
??????????????????
??????????
?????????
35

Mashimaro,

28/03/2008 13:17:05
Niel
I dont know what C4 is... but this has been out for quite a while...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSQnK5FcKas&NR=1

I wonder how many of these armchair analysts realise what the actual social issues are in Tibet.

1. Tibetans get welfare cheques from the central government.
2. The Han come in and work 80 hour weeks while the Tibetans sit around drinking
3. There is a huge gap between the rich and poor in Tibet
4. If Tibet got independence tomorrow it would not be able to feed itself and would immediately be seeking world aid.
5. That would mean the Americans would get in and trash the poor even further.
6. It would also set the americans up to control China and send its population into disaster.
36

Bob Christie,

Boycott the Beijing Olympics 28/03/2008 13:17:41
Could someone at the Scotsman please throw the switch which allows Chinese characters to be displayed instead of the question marks that came out in 34?
37

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 13:21:26
# Idopas

I have constantly admitted China's human rights violations yet not a single person here has been able to show me any evidence that your media did not lie.

Tibet is not a magical mantra. No matter how many times you say it, Tibet is part of China and has been part of China longer than westerners have been in America, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and South Africa. So put your money where your mouth is. Liberate THOSE countries first.
38

James Donald,

Newbridge 28/03/2008 13:25:40
#30 Mashimaro,Red Cesspit - So there is a chink in your "humour armour", oh dear.
All my comrades are European and over 5 foot tall. I would learn some Putonghua if I was going to the Republic of China, but I don't think they like that insincere Commie "comrade" talk.
39

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 13:27:19
#34 Bob, you show me one piece of evidence that your media did not lie about there being a "crackdown" in Tibet.
40

James Donald,

Newbridge 28/03/2008 13:31:28
#37 Mashimaro,China - "Tibet is part of China and has been part of China longer than westerners have been in America, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and South Africa" - Hand it over to the Republic of China then.
41

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 13:33:38
#30 Over 5 ft? only? And I always thought westerners were tall. Tell me have you seen Yao Ming recently?
I thought you sensitive brits didnt like racist words like "chink"
Hey, tell you what, your dick is bigger probably than mine.
Feel good?
We still own Tibet and your media still lied.
42

James Donald,

Newbridge 28/03/2008 13:44:57
#41 Mashimaro,China - Well over 5 ft. I am quite short at 189cm not quite tall enough for a basketball player.
"I thought you sensitive brits didnt like racist words like "chink"" - All a matter of context; nothing racist about "chink in your "humour armour"" so perhaps you are over-sensitive.
"Hey, tell you what, your dick is bigger probably than mine" - if you say so. I do hope this hasn't added to your inferiority complex.
"We still own Tibet and your media still lied" - Your blood-soaked country occupies Tibet (just as your fellow Reds from the Soviet Union occupied most of Eastern Europe before they collapsed. One down, one to go) and your Media always lies.
43

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 13:48:14
"Baha Mousa, 26, suffered 93 injuries after being taken into custody and tortured as UK troops sought information about weapons and suspected bomb-making equipment in Basra in 2003.

The incident resulted in seven soldiers being prosecuted for war crimes and one being jailed for a year after admitting "conditioning" Mr Mousa by beating him after he failed to remain in a tortuous position during detention."


tsk tsk tsk
44

James Donald,

Newbridge 28/03/2008 14:04:11
#43 Mashimaro,Blood-soaked Commie China -

"A Reassessment of How Many Died In the Military Crackdown in Beijing
"The true number of deaths will probably never be known, and it is possible that thousands of people were killed without leaving evidence behind. But based on the evidence that is now available, it seems plausible that about a dozen soldiers and policemen were killed, along with 400 to 800 civilians.
Some of the early estimates of thousands of deaths, including the American estimate, were based on reports that the Chinese Red Cross had counted 2,600 deaths. But the Chinese Red Cross has denied saying any such thing, and this seems to have been an offshoot of two other rumors that variously used the figure of 2,600 to describe the number of students who were missing and the number of students who were killed. 'We'll Never Know for Sure'"

Tut, tut.....maybe you can tell me how many soldiers from the sweet and kindly People's Liberation Army were prosecuted for these atrocities?
45

Neil,

Glasgow 28/03/2008 14:05:06
The problem with all this a\nti-Chinese stuff is that it is impossible for anybody, ho has not spent at least 1,000 times as long criticising the racist war criminals running Britain for the at least 1000 times worse acts of deliberate genocide & ethnic cleansing in Kosovo & Krajina, to claim to be motivated by any concern for human rights.

Perhaps James, Cankers, Ideopas, Biker etc would care to provide the links to show that they have done so.
46

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 14:11:12
James... This crackdown, this one... try to focus now.

"Baha Mousa, 26, suffered 93 injuries after being taken into custody and tortured as UK troops sought information about weapons and suspected bomb-making equipment in Basra in 2003.

"The incident resulted in seven soldiers being prosecuted for war crimes and one being jailed for a year after admitting "conditioning" Mr Mousa by beating him after he failed to remain in a tortuous position during detention."

Hey James, can you explain me what a torturous position is?
47

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 14:41:06
Damn the room cleared fast.
48

James Donald,

Newbridge 28/03/2008 14:48:25
#45 Neil,Glasgow - When the subject of the article is the history of atrocities in the Balkans (for which the Serbs have the responsibility for a high pertentage) then it would be appropriate to comment on this. It is not, hence the lack of comments. If you have a short memory, then you can look over previous threads on Kosovo etc.... to see my views on this.
49

James Donald,

Newbridge 28/03/2008 14:54:27
#46 Mashimaro, Red China - is that the whiff of avoidance? More like the stench. Baha Mousa died in British custody and the MOD has admitted responsibility. The culprits have been brought before a court and Mousa's will receive compensation for their loss.
Contrast this with the murderous rampage of the PLA in 1989 - no punishment just back to barracks for tea and medals.
50

Mashimaro,

China 28/03/2008 15:27:10
But... your country doesn't torture. You government doesn't beat people to death. Give me brea.
i'm still waitin for the shred of evidence that there was acrackdown this time.
51

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 28/03/2008 15:38:28
Mashimaro,
Sorry I couldn't join you tonight in trying to set the rest of them straight, I have just come home from work. I see you are carrying the fight to them fine by yourself, and holding your head up high. Too bad all your efforts and hard work only are believed by a few, the intelligent ones, the rest seem to have easy access to illegal street drugs, and know how to use them and obviously do use them. They don't believe because they don't want to, it really is sad.
52

Dáithí,

San Jose 28/03/2008 16:10:47
#1 thru 50, Mashimaro

Thank you for your posts!

As I've commented before, it is such a pleasure to see a true, unabashed communist using the same propaganda techniques that the anti-US/UK/Israel/Jew/Bush crowd use daily, and have them pushed back in their faces in a much more skillful fashion.

When they claim that we should not intervene in countries like Iraq, Afghanistan or Darfur and demand 'let the people work it out for themselves' or 'it's up to them what kind of government they have', it's fun to see how they now DON'T feel that way about China!

It's going to be a long, interesting summer - we can expect China to be leading the headlines on a daily basis until after the Olympics.

Keep it up! ;)
53

57Nomad,

california 28/03/2008 16:41:11
#24 Mashy

Mashy said:

"Not really dude, Beijing won't be dictated to by anyone."

You got that right, Mashy, my man. NOBODY is gonna be dictating to China because the Chinese Communist Party has already got the irrevocable franchise on doing the dictating in China.
54

57Nomad,

california 28/03/2008 17:04:32
#30 Mash

mash said:

"#28 Sad sad gwei."

That's real nice. The enlightened Mr. Mash here addressed Mr. Donald as gwei. Gwei or gweilo is the racist term that Chinese use to refer to white men. The word means ghost or spook. A Chinese calling a white man gwei or gweilo is the exact equivalent of calling a black man a ni***r.
55

Bob Christie,

Boycott the Beijing Olympics 28/03/2008 17:11:27
Mashimallo

You have still not provided the information you were asked for at #33.

Perhaps your newly arrived fellow apologist for the despotic pariah regime in China can provide us with it?

Or is it just the case that the odious government of mainland China just does not understand what the word freedom actually means?
56

Biker,

Ayr 28/03/2008 17:22:52
The whiff of avoidance is surely in the air again Mashimaro changing the facts to suit himself. Free medical aid was inded given to all Han Chinese who made the transition to Tibet, check your facts. As for the Han Chinese themselves, they did indeed inhabit Tibet all the way from the invasion. As this is a matter of UN documentation, who the hell do you think you are kidding?
Neil you make a fair comment at #45, but as I have constantly said, I have no problems with Chinese themselves. Just as I have no problems with Americans. Its merely their governments who p#ss me off.
Human Rights are Human Rights no matter where in the world you are and frankly nationality or skin colour make no odds to me. So your comment about anti Chinese is a little dissengenuous.
I personally have made comments on many issues on this site, many of which are HR issues and I am aware of the other two doing the same.
Mashimaro, are you going to let us know which paper you work for? Let us see you side of the truth. Yes I see they are Chinese but I did ask for english versions which you seem to have ignored. More obfuscations and smokescreen? As for milk down your nose, is that some sort of perversion?
57

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA....Bye Bye Bush -Cheney..u. evil lead 28/03/2008 17:54:15
56
Biker,
Ayr 28/03/2008
u wrote;
As for milk down your nose, is that some sort of perversion?
-----------------------------------------------


I don't think so dude.

If a person eats Jalapenos (common to mexican food), and for some strange reason got it in their nose.

"try to consume a dairy product, like milk, yogurt, or ice cream.
Dairy products contain a chemical called caisen, that combats the effects of chile peppers' capsicum, by stripping it from its receptor site on the skin.

Milk tends to reduce the burning effect of that pepper.

GC

58

Neil,

Glasgow 28/03/2008 18:12:46
James you have indeed commented on the Yugoslav wars, though only to blame the victims, as indeed you just did today. You have never produced evidence for the Serbs being the prime culprits, though a glance at the previous & current demographic map shows it is untrue. You have certainly been infinitely more willing to make excuses for the Nazis than for the Chinese.

The basic point is that, even if our media were in this case reporting entirely truthfully, as they most definitely did not over Yugoslavia & thus if in this particular case the "goodies" & "baddies" line up as they reported our government & its supporters would STILL not have a right to claim moral superiority over China's.
59

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta ...smell the burn. 28/03/2008 18:51:50
Dudes,
Tibet's India-based government-in-exile says more than 100 people have died in the recent clashes between protesters and Chinese authorities in and around Tibet. Beijing disputes that claim, saying the numbers are much lower. Chinese officials have sharply criticized international coverage of the riots, calling it biased. Stephanie Ho, VOA correspondent in Beijing, says the situation in Tibet is viewed very differently in the Chinese media.
“The Chinese media have been playing this strictly as a bunch of Tibetan hooligans who have decided to smash windows and loot and pillage and kill Chinese people. So the Chinese public is very unhappy with Western media coverage,” says Ho. “The Voice of America office here has been getting tons of phone calls from people complaining about media coverage outside China, saying they don't understand why everybody else is getting it wrong. The problem is that the information coming out of Lhasa is sketchy, so what we're left with is the Chinese official version of events and rumors and cell phone images. We don't know what the real story is.”
It's hard to know the real story because China has prevented independent coverage by barring foreign correspondents from freely traveling to Tibet and neighboring provinces where the unrest has spread. Moreover, the government in Beijing has begun a propaganda campaign to persuade the public that the Dalai Lama, Tibet's exiled leader, instigated the violence on March 14 and that China is the victim of separatist, terrorist activity. But Stephanie Ho says the protests have been caused by multiple factors - religious, cultural and economic: “There is a lot of resentment among Tibetans in Tibet with the fact that they're sort of being left behind. The Chinese government has spent lots of money in Tibet trying to build it up, but it has mostly been Han Chinese who have benefited. So Tibetans are resentful. They feel there has not been adequate respect for their religion. The Dalai
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GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta ...smell the burn. 28/03/2008 18:54:15
#59 contd:
Dudes;
is the holiest figure in Tibetan Buddhism, and he keeps getting roundly vilified by the Chinese government.”
Contrary to Beijing's characterization, the Dalai Lama is widely viewed as a moderate - a man who shuns violence and who has for years attempted to meet the Chinese halfway. Western governments, including Washington, are urging Chinese officials to meet with the Dalai Lama to reach some modicum of understanding. But many regional observers say the international community has not put sufficient pressure on Beijing for their harsh tactics against the Tibetan protesters.
Indian journalist Jehangir Pocha, editor of the New Delhi-based news magazine Business World, explains that foreign governments like the United States and India are conflicted: “Speaking in entirely humanitarian terms, what you have is a very difficult situation. If you get tough with the Communist Party, you risk endangering the stability of a country of 1.2 billion people. At the same time, you can't wash away the concerns of the indigenous Tibetan people.”
Bhuchung Tsering, vice president of the International Campaign for Tibet, was born in Tibet, grew up in India, and now lives in Washington. He says the Tibetan people were actually forced to launch their recent demonstrations in Lhasa: “The Chinese government's policies have failed to recognize and respect the distinct identity of the Tibetan people and to provide a space to preserve and promote that distinct heritage. Beneath that are many factors, which have led the Tibetan people to feel they are being increasingly marginalized. And the immediate spark from my perspective would be the Chinese government's continued denunciation of the Dalai Lama.”
Jehangir Pocha notes that the Dalai Lama, through his intermediaries, has actually been in talks with the Chinese government for a number of years. But the Tibetan government-in-exile, which is headquartered in Dharmsala in northern India, does not believe Be
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GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta ...smell the burn. 28/03/2008 18:56:41
#59 contd:

Dudes,
Beijing has entered these talks in good faith. Besides that, Mr. Pocha says, the really tough problem goes far beyond the issue of Tibetan autonomy.
“The key issue between Beijing and the Tibetans is the definition of Tibet. The Chinese define Tibet merely as the province they call the Tibetan Autonomous Region, or TAR. The Tibetans define Tibet as the province of TAR plus Tibetan areas of other Chinese provinces such as Qinghai, Gansu, and Sichuan, and that is really the issue holding up the negotiations. This is not very well understood. And no one seems to have a solution to that issue.”
Bhuchung Tsering observes that contact between the Chinese leadership and representatives of the Dalai Lama was reestablished in 2002, and there have been six rounds of private talks since then, all of them unsatisfactory. So Tibetans are skeptical. Within the Tibetan movement in exile, Bhuchung Tsering says, some people are now calling for a boycott of the 2008 Olympic games, which are scheduled to be held this summer in Beijing.
Some Western critics also argue that their governments may have to resort to such a threat, or at least a boycott of the Olympics' Opening Ceremony, if the behind-the-scenes approach to pressuring Beijing fails. For now, President Bush has said he plans to be in Beijing this summer for the opening ceremony. For International Press Club, I'm Judith Latham.


GC
62

James Donald,

Newbridge 28/03/2008 19:43:08
#58 Neil,Glasgow - "James you have indeed commented on the Yugoslav wars, though only to blame the victims, as indeed you just did today" - Rubbish. Serbs were/are as much perpetrators of atrocity as victims yet you refuse to acknowledge this.
"You have never produced evidence for the Serbs being the prime culprits" - Again rubbish. I advised you to read a few books (Slovenia 1945 - Memories of Death and Survival after World War II by John Corsellis being a point in case) that showed how some Serbs excelled in the field of atrocity but all you managed was a feeble accusation of having Googled these titles. Fact is YOU are happy to excuse Serbian atrocities whilst condemning those of others.
This thread is about Tibet; save you bizarre (cheerleading for Karadzic) comments for the appropriate thread:
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/world/Karadzic39s-family-homes-raided.3923781.jp
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Deuchars,

Freehootsman 28/03/2008 19:51:38
32 Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen

Offensive Troll
64

,

29/03/2008 00:06:35
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
65

Mashimaro,

China 29/03/2008 00:29:15
#52

Thanks for your support. At least a few people on here "get it" that this whole Tibet thing is mostly a huge spin by the western goverments in their attempts to smash communism - yet again. They don't care that they will bring suffering to millions, that Tibet will be poverty stricken, that it can't even feed its own people and never will be able to feed its own people, and that they will once again, return a despot to the throne - hey it will be Zimbabwe all over again but who cares about that.
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29/03/2008 00:32:04
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
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Mashimaro,

29/03/2008 00:34:55
#57 You got that right. It dictates to all Chinese, not just the ethnic Tibetans. It crushes rebellion of any Chinese, it stops cult religions all over China, not just Tibet. In fact it is harder on Han Chinese than any other of the 56 ethnic groups that make up China. So forgive me, once again, if I don't start weeping and wailing about a few superstitious men in robes.
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Mashimaro,

China 29/03/2008 00:42:06
#54

Gwei is an affectionate name for white,a shortening of gwei lo, which means white devil. It's an affectionate term, often said in english too, like "the sad gwei at the dai" for those of your countrymen who spend all their time at a dai pai dong. It is not considered racist, smelly hairy dogs is the one that is racist. Or hairy cavemen is pretty racist, as would be fei dai gwei big fat whites. And there are plenty of others, involving barbarians, neanderthals and oddly enough, noses and other bodily parts which I'm too polite to mention. So delay no more and go learn some chinese, you'll need to to greet your masters.
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Mashimaro,

China 29/03/2008 01:04:42
#55
"You have still not provided the information you were asked for at #33."

Dude, you haven't provided the information I've been asking for since I stumbled on this site. Give me proof of the recent alleged crackdown in Tibet. That is all I want.

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postmark54,

Chongqing, China 29/03/2008 02:33:34
Mashimaro,
I don't know if the Galactic Cannibal has apologized for his racist statement or not, I have been busy working. If he has not apologized, then by all means discredit everything he says, for it will mean that he has effectively taken himself out of the running. Racist people don't care about human rights, just about being heard and seeing their names in print. If indeed he has apologized, then at least I will continue to look at his comments with an open mind.
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57Nomad,

california 29/03/2008 05:43:40
#68 Mash

you are lying through your commie teeth. the terms gwei and gweilo are out and out racist remarks and you know it. If 'spooks' or 'ghosts' are 'affectionate' names for white men, then 'slants' or 'chinks' are affectionate names for chinese. got it, charley chan? don't you have a rice paddy to attend to? by the way, would you mind keeping your continuing plagues of influenza and SARS confined within your own borders?

As to the notion of china never sending its army to invade other countries, its blatant invasion of tibet notwithstanding, on February 17th of 1978, China invaded Vietnam with over 80,000 soldiers and hundreds of tanks. So, spare us the 'China never invaded anybody' refrain, it's not true.

The Chinese are reticent to sent troops abroad but not because they are peace loving. The reason is that the PLA's main function is not to guard against foreign invasion, who the hell wants to invade the flu capital of the universe, but to keep its own citizens intimidated and enthralled, e.g., Tienanmen Square. There are over fifty thousand riots a year in China and every soldier in the PLA is needed for the chinese communist government to keep control of the chinese people.
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Mashimaro,

China 29/03/2008 05:49:34
#56 As I said I don't really know how many Han are in Tibet. It's an aribitrary arguement anyway as Tibet is a province of China. The whole Tibet argument is really arbitrary because Tibetans are treated better than most other Chinese as they are considered a minority group.

"Human Rights are Human Rights no matter where in the world you are and frankly nationality or skin colour make no odds to me. So your comment about anti Chinese is a little dissengenuous."

Now this personally p*sses me off. How absolutely arrogant can you be? Who are YOU to decide what are and what are not human rights? Who gives YOU the right to impose your idiotic ideas on other people? Why don't you take care of your own society that is so weakened it can't even keep its Christmas traditions alive. You must realise that something is really wrong when people can't keep a piggy bank on their desk at work.
YOUR human rights would have the judiciary allow killers, rapists and child molesters walk freely among your people. Your government should be protecting your people, instead it's so busy bowing down to other nations you've lost your identity, you've lost your power and your people have become lazy and fat.
Your Human Rights whiners put people like Mugabe into power. We should listen to you? are you crazy?
I know it's a really strange concept to you but we put more stock in being able to feed our people, being able to give them water, education and medical services. Your "Human rights" efforts will take that away from them. How can it be "human rights" to let a child starve to death? HOW?

"Mashimaro, are you going to let us know which paper you work for?"

What part of "no" are you having trouble understanding? Maybe you need to get some real education.

"As for milk down your nose, is that some sort of perversion? " What, you've never laughed while drinking milk?
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Mashimaro,

China 29/03/2008 06:04:28
"Perhaps your newly arrived fellow apologist for the despotic pariah regime in China can provide us with it?

Or is it just the case that the odious government of mainland China just does not understand what the word freedom actually means?"

I swear you're reading this stuff out of some freaky '60s book. Regime, Odious, Pariah, Apologist... I mean this is good stuff, where are you getting it all? It's like retro debate. Here are a few more terms you might like to add to your vocab just to give us some variation: lickspittle, lackeys, apparatchik, warmongering (that's always good), winds of change in the corridors of power - that sort of stuff. I feel you've got a promising future in writing retro trash talk for wannabe revolutionaries, but you still need a bit of guidance and creativity. I'll give you 6 out of 10 for your last effort.
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postmark54,

Chongqing, China 29/03/2008 06:11:07
By going back over the last few day's postings, I seethat the Galactic Cannibal has indeed NOT apologized for his racist statement "two whites don't make a wong", so his comments and remarks have lost all credibility.
Mashimaro,
These anti China people, and there seem to be many, have no interest in human rights, if they did, they would have kicked there own governments out of power. So much for their right to vote. Blair rode it out 'til he was ready to leave, Bush will do the same, and all of their elected officials will continue to abuse their power, unchecked. We seem to be wasting our time with them, but it seems we are both dedicated enough to continue to expose the truth, whether most of this audience is too brainwashed to see the real facts, facts that come from the people of China. One day they will see the truth, but it will be too late for them, as for now the western brainwashing has been a complete success. When they wake up, there will be nobody left to help them.
One more thing,
Yes, they really stash their parents and grandparents into "old folk" homes in the west, but they like to call them retirement homes. Still the bloody same thing though, and many unspeakable crimes are committed against the elderly within the walls of those institutions, and nobody in the west will deny that.
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Mashimaro,

China 29/03/2008 06:17:41
#57 Nomad

Dude you have me confused with somone else. I don't believe I've said China has never invaded another country because that's just not true. China has been at war ever since it can remember, the Xia, the Mongols the Tibetans, the Chin, it's never ending. Hence that huge farking wall across Asia. So I'm sure that sometime during that time the Middle Kingdom invaded someone.
And of course you are quite right. We did invade Vietnam for uhhh 29 days I think. How does that gel with the UK invasion of Iraq? or the UK invasion of Afghanistan?
Personally I don't mind you dudes mucking around in Afghanistan, it certainly needed mucking around with. Pity you screwed it up so badly first time around hmm? Should have just let the Russkis have it. They would have sorted those guys right quick. But no, you guys had to interfere and leave it in a complete mess where the Taleban could come to power. And...wel... we all know how that turned out.
Now you've got Afghanistan the sequal in Iraq. You dudes just never farking learn do you?
And you still want to meddle in China's affairs.
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James Donald,

Newbridge 29/03/2008 06:27:59
#56 Biker,Ayr 28/03/2008 - "The whiff of avoidance is surely in the air again Mashimaro changing the facts to suit himself" - Not a whiff but a stench. Here is an interesting report on unrest outwith what the Red Chinese consider Tibet entitled "Tibet's unsettled borders :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7304825.stm

See also:

China and Tibet
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7299221.stm

and:

"Tibetans describe continuing unrest"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7300312.stm

and:

"Lhasa eyewitness: 'City in cinders'"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7299642.stm

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Mashimaro,

China 29/03/2008 06:30:36
Let's just recap here...

""Baha Mousa, 26, suffered 93 injuries after being taken into custody and tortured as UK troops sought information about weapons and suspected bomb-making equipment in Basra in 2003.

"The incident resulted in seven soldiers being prosecuted for war crimes and one being jailed for a year after admitting "conditioning" Mr Mousa by beating him after he failed to remain in a tortuous position during detention."

so the UK employs torture - surprise surprise. Mr Mousa was beaten to condition him after he failed to remain in a torturous position.
Gee, troll, I hope he wasn't forced to "squad" as you insiste on calling it.
Now whoever did this didn't act alone. And must have believed that what he was doing was okay with his superiors. So was everyone arrested and held accountable for his travesty of human rights?
Did they have a warrant for this guy's arrest or was he just snatched as normal? Did he appear in court? Doubtful.
Wow, so the UK grabs people off the streets, tortures them and unfortunately this one died. hmmmmmmmmmmm.
Then there's the little matter of RENDITION.
Some Americans are after Bush for lying about Iraq. I don't know of anyoone going after Blair for his part in the whoppers. But how about the lie he told when he said the UK had nothing to do with Rendition.
For those who don't know, rendition means snatching people out of various sovreign countries, putting them on planes, sending them to a country that doesn't mind torture - like Egypt - torturing them - eletric shocks, sexual abuse, drugs, beatings, threats of rape by dogs, that sort of human rights stuff - and then they put them in Gitmo for more abuse, where if they choose to go on a hunger strike "doctors" force pipes up their noses while others hold them down. This practice is in itself a form of torture and against doctor's oaths in many countries of not to take part in torture. It is also against the principal of people being able to refuse medical treat
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Mashimaro,

China 29/03/2008 06:35:05
This practice is in itself a form of torture and against doctor's oaths in many countries of not to take part in torture. It is also against the principal of people being able to refuse medical treatment.
Wow, so the UK doesn't mind people just being "taken away", sent to another country, tortured by electric shock, sexual abuse, beating and sex with dogs, then moved into a prison without any form of trial or even contact with their family or lawyer - in fact no one knows where they are - and while they are in this UK supported prison they are tortured again... hmmmmmm
I guess I'm failing to see the moral high-ground here.
Are you sure the UK is not being run by the Chinese?
79

Mashimaro,

China 29/03/2008 06:53:40
James, thanks for your hard work. Much appreciated.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7304825.stm

I'm not really sure of the point of this posting unless it is to confirm that Tibet was renegad for a few decades - during which it wasn't recognised as such - and then was taken back by China. We all knew that.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7299221.stm

Again not really sure about the point of this one. You'll notice the journalist very carefully doesn't mention the ethnicity of the dead, or any sense of crackdown, just a heavy military presence - which we all know about.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7300312.stm
this isn't too bad, it's up to date at least and has bothered to contact someone there. However what this dude describes is the Tibetans running amok. The rest is heresay. Still he doesn't mention a crackdown at the time your journalists were screaming CRACKDOWN. What he does mention is security forces actively securing a mob that's burning and destroying.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7299642.stm
"As the unrest broke out the demonstrators were simply being contained by the police. The protest seemed organised initially but it quickly turned into an unruly mob ethic which targeted Chinese people and businesses."

Yes, that about sums it up. The Tibetans went crazy, they burned the city (stoned and murdered a few people too), the police did their best to contain them and move people to safety. Darn those Chinese, they're so brutal.

thanks again for trying. I appreciate it. As you can see from these reports there was no brutality by the government forces.







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Mashimaro,

China 29/03/2008 07:01:24
@ Postmark

"One more thing,
Yes, they really stash their parents and grandparents into "old folk" homes in the west, but they like to call them retirement homes. Still the bloody same thing though, and many unspeakable crimes are committed against the elderly within the walls of those institutions, and nobody in the west will deny that. "

That is disgusting! Do people cease to have rights when they are old? What sort of society does not take care of its elderly? That is truly barbarian, like those Eskimos who send their old folk out into the snow to die. If you have no respect for your past you have no respect for yourself or for your future. No wonder their society is in so much trouble. If there is no wisdom from the elderly how will the young learn?
I thought it was a tennet of Christianity - honor thy father and thy mother. What happened to that?
Who rubs your granny's feet when she is sick? Did she not rub yours when you were sick?
Throwing away your old people is despicable. No, it's beyond despicable that you cannot find the time to respect the people who made you and have given you all you are today.