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Rate lowest since 1951 but fear grows

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Published Date: 05 December 2008
THE Chancellor last night warned banks of "further action" if they failed to boost lending following yesterday's 1 percentage point cut in interest rates to their lowest level since 1951.
Alistair Darling told Edinburgh Chamber of Commerce that Britain would get through the economic turmoil and would emerge in better shape after the Bank of England cut its base rate to just 2 per cent. Some banks passed on the cut to customers on tracker-rate mortgages.

However, there was anger that hundreds of thousands of other mortgage holders on standard variable rate (SVR) policies will not have the full savings passed on to them. The Halifax – Britain's biggest mortgage lender – said it would only trim its standard variable rate by 0.25 percentage points.

The Halifax and Bank of Scotland mortgage rates are calculated separately and last night BoS announced its SVR would reduce on 1 January from 5.35 to 4.84 per cent. Nationwide, meanwhile, announced a cut of only 0.69 points in its standard rate.

Many banks had not said what they would do last night, raising concerns over the passing on of the Bank cut.

Mr Darling cited action the government had taken to achieve financial stability and measures in his Pre-Budget Report to protect homeowners from repossessions. He said: "We will do more to make sure that the wider availability of lending is kept going. We want businesses and homeowners to be able to get affordable credit."

He told his Edinburgh audience that Royal Bank of Scotland and the superbank created by the takeover of HBOS by Lloyds TSB, if the move goes ahead, will have "legally binding commitments to maintain lending". He added: "We are ready to take further steps to build on what we have already done to get responsible lending going again."

However, experts warned that the lenders' decisions showed that continued interest rate cuts alone – especially those not passed on in full – would do little to reinvigorate an economy sliding deeper into recession.

Neil Saunders, a consulting director at the consumer forecaster Verdict Research, compared the 1 per cent cut from the Bank's base rate to "facing a tsunami and holding up an umbrella". He said: "It's not a solution. It's about trying to ease some of the decline, making sure the eventual landing is not too harsh and managing for the longer term.

"If the Bank had wanted to ease some of the pressure on the high street, they would have had to act six to eight months ago."

Yesterday's cut by the Bank followed a 0.5-point reduction in October and last month's surprise 1.5-point reduction. It means that the Bank's official rate is now the lowest since 1951, the year Sir Winston Churchill was re-elected prime minister.

Banks such as HSBC and Lloyds TSB said they would be passing on the one-point reduction in full, cutting annual repayments on a £250,000 mortgage by about £1,700 a year.

But despite Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, saying that banks had "a duty" to pass on the reduction, Halifax and Nationwide said they would limit the cut in their default rates. The Halifax decision comes despite its parent company, HBOS, being in line for £11.5 billion of taxpayers' cash if its takeover by Lloyds TSB goes ahead.

George Osborne, the Conservative shadow chancellor, said: "This is yet more evidence that Gordon Brown's bank recapitalisation plan is failing. We need radical action to get bank lending flowing again."

Halifax strongly defended its decision, saying it had been one of the few institutions to pass on in full the last two interest rate cuts. It said its tracker rates would fall by the full 1 per cent, while about half of its 2.5 million mortgage holders were unaffected as they were on fixed rates. It estimated about 375,000 of its customers would be affected by its decision not to pass on the cut in full.

The bank said it was also entitled to make a "reasonable profit", at a time when inter-bank lending rates were averaging 5.46 per cent – way above the Bank of England's rate.

The Halifax and Nationwide were not alone in failing to pass on the full reduction. Many other lenders were expected to rely on escape clauses in their small print to avoid doing so.

So-called collars allow lenders to refuse to mirror the base rate when it drops below a certain level, typically around 3 per cent.

Before addressing Edinburgh Chamber of Commerce, Mr Darling said: "We are ready to do whatever we can to help the banks not only build their position but also to lend. But it is absolutely essential that they help their customers and that they treat their customers fairly. Customers know they have to stick to their side of the deal – they expect the banks to do exactly the same thing. I also said I wanted to see the interest rate reductions announced by the Bank of England passed on."

But the Bank made clear, in a statement explaining the rate change, that its primary motivation in cutting the cost of lending was to avoid the economy being crippled by deflation. This contrasts with the Prime Minister's hope that Britain will spend its way out of the recession after last week's VAT cut.

Business customers with the BoS will see rates cut by 1 percentage point, as will those with Lloyds TSB and RBS.

The rate of inflation, 4.5 per cent, is expected to fall sharply this month as a result of lower fuel and food prices. Last month, the Bank's monetary policy committee said it feared inflation could turn negative next year – hugely damaging, as it removes the incentive for firms to invest.

Experts warned that the base rate cut would do little to reinvigorate an economy in recession. The housing market has seized up as a result of the difficulty of obtaining mortgages, while the collapse in global confidence is seeing thousands of workers laid off daily.

Yesterday, Halifax reported a 2.6 per cent fall in house prices – the biggest month-on-month fall since 1992.

Job losses yesterday also involved HM Revenue and Customs and the high-street retailer Pier.

Alan Tomlinson, of the insolvency practitioners Tomlinsons, said: "There's a misconception that interest rate cuts are a panacea for business. While they can help boost confidence, the reality is they make very little difference in the short to medium term to companies that are struggling."

Peter Bolton King, the chief executive of the National Association of Estate Agents, said: "Low rates will increase confidence in the market, but will not increase mortgage approvals. Bringing buoyancy back to the market lies not only with low interest rates but, crucially, also in new lending. Government and lenders must do more to encourage first-time buyers on to the property ladder in order to reverse the current downturn in the market."

FACT BOX

THE cut in interest rates will leave at least one group out of pocket – savers.

This could have knock-on consequences for banks, who need old-fashioned depositors to shore up their finances.

Some banks may, however, keep interest rates high on savings accounts in a bid to entice larger deposits.

Angela Knight, of the British Banking Association, said it was important to think of the impact of interest rates on savers as well as borrowers.

She said: "The banks have got to balance the requirements of both savers and borrowers. Some of the rates will be passed down."

But she said there would still be "choices" in the market for savers. "Everything is related to that base rate but it is not necessarily all at the base."

Adrian Coles, director general of the Building Societies' Association, said: "Savers will be disappointed at today's news. Building societies which pass on both this base rate reduction and the last could halve the interest which they pay to their investors in a very short period of time.

"A large proportion of the funds invested in building societies are held by those over the age of 55. Building societies will wish to do what they can to protect pensioners."

The UK has more savers than borrowers, although the amount of debt is significantly higher than the total saved.

BACKGROUND

THE last time rates were this low was 1951. It was the year of the Festival of Britain, of Sir Winston Churchill's return to No 10, of King George IV – and the start of what has been described as a golden age in recent British history.

The average house cost £2,100 (equivalent to £48,000 in 2008 once inflation is added), a loaf of bread was 6d (2.5p in decimal currency) and the Bank of England base rate was 2 per cent.

Amazingly, the Bank had retained that rate since October 1939. It lasted all the way through to 8 November, 1951 – barely believable in comparison to today's economy, when global conditions can see rates change by 1.5 points a month.

Petrol was 3 shillings a gallon, a cinema ticket cheaper at 2d, All About Eve won the Oscar for best film – although its star Bette Davis lost out to Judy Holliday for best actress – and roads were filling with cars such as the Morris Minor, which cost £520 new (£12,000 today), and the Humber Hawk, which sold for £1,035 (£24,000 in today's prices).

Newcastle United defeated Blackpool 2-0 to win the FA Cup, and the future Geordie legend Kevin Keegan was born.

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The full article contains 1633 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 05/12/2008 00:30:25

Soo! Not learnt the lesson yet of 'Pure Greed', take, take, take!

Well your time is coming, more mergers Will take place, redundancies many, and forget your £billions of bonuses over the last 10years, that will also stop!

'Government Direct Lending' Will put you all where you belong, and DON'T,...'Cry Wolf'! Later, because it will be to Late!



2

Nevsky,

Moscow 05/12/2008 01:20:00
More clear evidence that Brown and Co were completely unprepared for any eventuality regarding his tenure at the helm of the sinking ship GB.

Next will be a run on the pound and the international community refusing to open any more funds to an already overstretched UK, no wonder Brown was touting the Arabs and China to prop up the IMF, he knows there is nothing left in the coffers.

Anyone who is in any doubt just have a look at the rate the ound is falling through the floor...it's sell sell sell!
3

Bring On The Night,

05/12/2008 01:42:28
Interesting times.

However, moving towards the Japanese model does have some advantages.
4

Dark Lochnagar,

Symington under a hedge fund 05/12/2008 01:45:57
This is going to be really bad if they're cutting interest rates to this amount. MugaBroon is handless as the ship goes down. It will be worth the grief to get rid of you and your scum like party for another 20 years.
5

Nevsky,

Moscow 05/12/2008 01:46:35
Nationalisation of all the banks next, they are all quite clearly telling Brown and Darling to f...off and have no confidence whatsoever in them.

Halifax refusing to pass on the rate cut. The banks are making Brown and Darling look like clowns!
6

Bring On The Night,

05/12/2008 01:55:54
*Please enter your comment*
7

Aileen,

05/12/2008 03:04:16
If the banks do not pass on the cuts then there is going to be the same problem in the UK as the US and there will be a glut of houses for sale or houses which have been taken back by the banks because people will not be able to afford their mortgages due to being laid off or quite simply not being able to pay all their bills. How greedy and stupid are these banks? I say, if a bank has reduced it's rate, then put your money in that bank, don't give any more money to those banks who do not reduce their rates. I for one will be doing exactly that. Hit them where it hurts.
8

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 05/12/2008 03:10:02

Nevsky ~4,

Wrong! Brown at end of the day, will not tolerate the Banks arrogance, these 'Full of Muscle' "Banks",, will be,...
...'Brought dowm to their Knees' to a place where they all belong!

'Mark My Words' !!

9

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 05/12/2008 03:20:18

HBOS, Charging every Customer, £40.00 per item overdrawn, by .001% of a Second Late, because your wages were paid in by a "Second" Late, Tells you ALL,....

'THE PURE GREED OF OUR BANKING SYSTEM'!!!!

THIS MUST BE STOPPED!!!

10

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 05/12/2008 03:27:27

HBOS! Making £400 per Customer at 1second late with payment, tells us all Mountains, on the 'Greed' they Adore!!

11

I'll have a wee one, if you are,

05/12/2008 03:34:07
Charles

Time is money
12

Forward not Back,

05/12/2008 04:53:25
What needs to be done to kick-start business is for the government to underwrite the credit lines. Mortgages aren't the issue in themselves. Helping the wealth creating sector of the economy is.
13

I can see for miles,

05/12/2008 06:27:55
I think that Mr Brown is doing his best
14

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 05/12/2008 07:35:39
I'm a saver and other than what is left on my mortgage (no much) I have no debt (or my wife).

We have been informed by 2 of a few banks we have invested in that our interest rate has gone DOWN in line with the BoE base rate.

I have spent the last 2 days hunting for better deals only to be informed that all rates are coming down and any higher rates are for a year only to entice me in then they go down in line with BoE base rates.

This money I am trying to invest is to contribute to our retirement and is something we both grafted hard for.

THEY HAVE LOST MY VOTE FOR EVER. I am utterly disgusted that they are pandering to those that, through entirely thier own fault, have found themselves in a lot of debt through fekless and reckless spending.

Way to alientate a generation of people who lived frugally (and possibly more environmentally friendly than current generations) in order to shore up for retirement instead of being state spongers.
15

The Glasgow Ranger,

Edinburgh 05/12/2008 07:36:58
The Government has a near 60% stake in RBS and they can`t pass on the full rate to the customers?
16

SouthernSkye,

Bonny Bonn 05/12/2008 07:41:35
10 Donnie Murdo
Agreed. I too am in your position and our savings might as well be in a sock under the bed!
I am starting to look overseas for opening an account. I have an account in Germany (where I work) and I am going to visit a few banks here and see if they offer something a little more worth while.
For 10 years I have been "prudent" and it has, I admit, left me with peace of mind, but currently little else.
17

Melly,

Dunblane 05/12/2008 08:07:52
"We will do what it takes" - okay Gordo show us what your made of. Tell HBOS you`ll withdraw the £11.5Bn funding if they don`t pass on the full amount, or are you a wee fairtie ?
18

,

05/12/2008 08:12:07
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
19

caithness,

still snowy north 05/12/2008 08:12:43
Banks need to keep interest rates up to attract savers. What's the point in investing £20,000 in a bank with an annual return of 2 per cent or less. Taking your money out and investing in antiques makes more sense now.
PS Scotsman, tut tut. Get your subs up to speed. George IV died in 1830, did you mean George VI by any chance?
20

Bigwull,

edinburgh 05/12/2008 08:18:13
10 we're all suffering, not just you, so if the interest rate was high you'd say stuff the rest of you I'm all right Jack. Tough times, live with it
21

Rambo The Jambo,

Sunny Tollcross 05/12/2008 08:21:30
# 10 Donnie Murdo

# 12 SouthernSkye,

I am in the same position, however most of my lifetime savings are in long term fixed rate bonds offering 5-6% (no withdrawals).

Best route to go down.

One word of caution.....Avoid foreign banks like the plague.

Keep your money here. There are good rates to be had if you look around. After all, the banks still want our money, which is why they offer higher rates for long term bond issues.
22

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 05/12/2008 08:31:08
17 Rambo The Jambo

Aye, did that but the problem was some of them are up for renewal.

It's a total feking mess. We are simply not getting a good deal because they are pandering to the fekless to keep votes. Mine and my wifes life of frugality and sacrifices, today as I sit here writing this, has been a total feking waste of time.

I should've just spent spent spent like everybody else!

Rant over. BTW, what's wrong with foreign banks? All banks are foreign, even home grown ones. They have grown global with many arms, legs and testimonials. Who knows where our money goes when we give it to them!
23

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 05/12/2008 08:33:38
16 Bigwull,

Absolutely! I'd say that because I/we grafted for it. Made sacrifices for it, didn't give in to silly ugres of want.

Unlike yourself who must be up to yer bawz in debt because you couldn't control yourself. I have no sympathy pal. It's your look out. Dinnae expect me to bail you out (which is happening against my will anyway).

It's a life of choices and sod you if you made the wrong choice. Ain't my fault.
24

The Glasgow Ranger,

Edinburgh 05/12/2008 08:40:39
#14 - never mind the fire-proof safe,just invest in drugs.
25

Dr Mike,

Edinburgh 05/12/2008 08:50:05
With an average house now costing 3-4x what it should be if it is to be in line with average earnings - lesson, that's where house prices must be heading otherwise this mess will never clear up. We are entering a depression, after all once everyone has a mobile phone, a 50" tele and a reasonably new car, what else is there to buy?

26

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 05/12/2008 08:53:23
The banks got themselves into terrible trouble by lending irresponsibly. HBOS had to write down over £4bn in bad debts for the first 9 months of this year. £1.7bn of that was at their corporate banking division. So they lost huge amounts of money by lending to individuals and businesses.

Now people are saying that they must lend more and the govt seems to be considering measures to force them to do so.

The interest rates banks charge on loans have to cover the possibility of default on part of their loan portfolio. If a bank is forced to lend at very low rates of interest they will not be able to cover the risk of bad debts. They will then, once again, lose huge amounts on bad debts and we are back to the same problems.

27

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 05/12/2008 08:56:50
21 Dr Mike
"We are entering a depression, after all once everyone has a mobile phone, a 50" tele and a reasonably new car, what else is there to buy?"

A Blackberry, a 60" telly and newer, better car. Like it or not - that's the way many people are.
28

A Crofter,

Western Isles 05/12/2008 08:58:58
"Alistair Darling told Edinburgh Chamber of Commerce that Britain would get through the economic turmoil and would emerge in better shape after the Bank of England cut its base rate to just 2 per cent."

Hurrah! No more boom 'n' bust!
29

Elephant,

Linlithgow 05/12/2008 09:03:23
I've just reinstated an investment that tracks the stock markets. If shares have halved in value in a year and savings rate are fast approaching nil it doesn't take an economist to predict what will happen next. A nice big stock market boom. They've priced in a slump already and if its good enough for Warren Buffet... Pile in good people of Scotland.
30

Dissector,

Stirling 05/12/2008 09:08:52
Interesting that the paper decided not to pass comment (only report the fact) on HBOS failure to pass on the rate cut in full - don't want to upset the fringe (potential and / or nonsense) bidders then ??
31

Liz,

Edinburgh 05/12/2008 09:12:27
#24
It is curious to hear what Brown and Darling are saying, they are either idiots or are lying through their teeth to us.

The banks are in a mess and they desperatly need cash deposits in order to finance futher lending. Cutting rates to 2% is going to drive savers away leaving the banks and lending in an even worse postion.

Thank God Gordon Brown was 'our best ever Chancellor' imagine the mess we would be in if he had made a pigs ear of our economy....

The profligate are being rewarded and the prudent (I am using the proper definition of prudnet here not the Gordon Brown one) are getting shafted. Too much borrowing on the never never and not enough investment in anything that creates real wealth have been our downfall.
32

Brideun,

Culloden ( Sunnyside ) 05/12/2008 09:30:02
To those who have been prudent or lucky and have savings - watch out! The socialists ( incl SNP ) will attempt to penalise you for not being as profligate and stupid as they always are, no doubt with good hearts but always lack brains. It is impossible to spend on pet projects without first earning the means to do it, will they ever learn?
Do not trust paper money and paper promises.
33

Alan B,

05/12/2008 09:35:27
This cut is the right move. It probably has come too late. Darling and Brown dithered changing the inflation target for the BOE to allow them to take a longer view of inflation. As such we have sleep walked into a servre recession.
34

Alan B,

05/12/2008 09:38:14
#23 Ugly George

The nature of the modern economy is now based on consumption. If we are wanting to move away from that then we will have to look at changes to the way the economy is run and the aims and objectives of the entire system.

Secondly the items you mention are more manufactured goods. To a large extent the economy is more about the buying and selling of services as we have move past the agricultural economy and then the industrial economy.
35

Buckfastleigh,

05/12/2008 09:40:24
What are we waiting for? 2% ? the ECB is offering 3,5% Scotland should join the Euro! Why is the UK Gvt so coy?

Well just look at Gordon Brown and his famous five tests on Not joining the €. Bank robbers don't remind you of their exploits.
36

Mcsnagpile,

05/12/2008 09:42:26
Usury is against Christianity, Islam, Judaism---Cannot lend with interest to a brother Jew. Is this tenet wrong???
37

Alan B,

05/12/2008 09:46:42
#Liz

I totally agree with you regarding the abject failure of the Brown chancellorship which allowed far too much debt largely caused by not controlling house price inflation and in the public sector by spending more than he was taking in in taxes.

However cutting interest rates now (or should have been earlier) is the best thing to do to get us out this mess. We need to separate out gettinig us out the mess and how the economy should have been run over the past decade.

"Cutting rates to 2% is going to drive savers away leaving"

I doubt that will happen. People save in a recession if they have a job and their income has not been too serverely cut. Banks are (were) a safe place to put money in time of recession rather than investing in shares etc.

Interest rates should not be set for savers or borrowers but to target inflation and to a greater or lesser degree control the money supply (which is largely the growth of credit).

The idea with lower interest rates is generally to put more money in peoples pockets that allows them to spend. The uk economy is really based on consumer spending.

At the end of the day repocessions and job losses helps noone as it will undermine the whole house market for everyone and these job losses will have to be paid for by those working.

I agree the economy should have been run prudently and much of this mess would not be occurring.
38

Alan B,

05/12/2008 09:48:24
#Buckfastleigh

Browns five tests were so vague that they were meaningless. They were just a political power game with Blair to give Brown control over the matter. Browns power obsessed ego is one of the reasons we are in this mess.
39

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 05/12/2008 09:50:05
Never had much trust in the banks , now even less.

As other savers have pointed out , the interest rates have now dropped and the lending rates have not.

So , banks yet again make money and a farce out the situation.

NO fan of Labour, but I dont see how any other party could dig us out this mess any better.

Those with better ideas , cmon , tell us about it instead of the endless negativity.
40

fegan,

Newtownards 05/12/2008 09:52:11
I am retired and a saver, I have been robed of most of my private pension that I was advised to invest in by so called experts in the Banking world. Now my savings are under Pressure and heading the same way.
The Banks Should be cutting Salaries to every one paid over £30000 a year, and bonuses completely abandoned and all wage rises Frozen until the present situation and the money borrowed from the Treasury paid back plus interest in full.We cant let the situation in the Banking World go on as normal when every one else is suffering and loosing.I personally don't think the Present Government has the resolve to crack the BIG Whip.
41

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 05/12/2008 09:54:30
36

I agree. Nothing less than mass redundancies for these powerpoint jockeys.
42

Alan B,

05/12/2008 10:09:11
#The Leith Cowboy

"NO fan of Labour, but I dont see how any other party could dig us out this mess any better."

couple of points:
1)labour and brown are largely responsible for much of this mess. if the economy had been run on a more solid foundation we would have been able to cope with the economic problems in a much better way.
2)brown and darling dithered over changing the inflation target for the boe and that has meant big delays in cutting interest rates. Interest rates take time to work through the system. (up to 2 yrs).
3)there are questions whether a fiscal stimulus is the right move. The Germans and Dutch have rejected this as they do not believe it works. Sometimes government do things to be seen to be doing things and not for proper economic reasons ie good politics. However the biggest issue regarding the government borrowing more to spend is the fact that borrowing and our deficits was already high. If the government had run our finances prudently then there would have been less argument over a fiscal stimulus.
4)Brown has dithered badly with the banks. Remember NR went under well over yr ago. Why were the problems with the other banks not sorted out them. Brown FSA was saying there were no problems right up to the point the whole thing collapsed. If hbos problems were as bad as we now see this should have been dealt with last yr.


At the end of the day it is very difficult to see one thing Brown has done well. In relation to Darling i think he had a much better grasp of the severity of the situation but was shot down by brown when he came out and said it.

43

Dark Lochnagar,

Symington 05/12/2008 10:14:17
All this posturing by MugaBroon is a joke. He will do what he us told as all poiliticians have been over the years by the establishment like the Rothschilds. Wake up and realise what happens in the world. These shadowy figures have been running the world economy since before the first world war and will continue to do so.
44

The Strategist,

05/12/2008 10:24:38
Another consequence that could hit Scotland hard

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/bb1b9392-c252-11dd-a350-000077b07658.html
45

Migrant,

Melbourne 05/12/2008 10:51:39
Don't any of you see the credit card crisis coming?
increasing unemployment > increasing debt on credit card > no increased value in home to refinance this debt > bankruptcy > writing off of impaired credit card debt > bank failures, or more Govt support for finace system > print more money =??? Iceland
46

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 05/12/2008 10:57:01
36 - you were robbed of your pension , like me , not by the banks by the thief Brown who stole our money to buy votes of families with children . In 20 years time , there will be a pensions crisis in the UK which will dwarf the banking crisis by it's sheer scale .
Brown and Blair knew all this was coming but did nothing because they existed on short-termism . It is they who facilitated easy crdit by deliberately lying about the economy . I actually predicted 2 years ago on a forum that the UK was effectivly bankrupt . Oh the abuse and scorn I got from the labour posters .
47

Bob M,

Paisley 05/12/2008 11:07:29
"Newcastle United defeated Blackpool 2-0 to win the FA Cup, and the future Geordie legend Kevin Keegan was born."

Surely it would more relevant to inform Scotsman readers that in 1951 Hibs won the league, Celtic won the cup and Kenny Dalglish was born?

48

Philmugla,

05/12/2008 11:17:04
One word of caution.....Avoid foreign banks like the plague. Rambo the Jambo. Not my experience!

I have been invest in cash deposits here in for three years with no problem and an insurance deposit scheme to boot! Current rate 23 percent the sun is shining and it is 73 degrees today. Enjoy your retirement in the good OLD UK!
49

The Glasgow Ranger,

Edinburgh 05/12/2008 11:21:48
"In 1951 Hibs won the league"

A feat never to be repeated he mused.

Hahaha
50

Liz,

Edinburgh 05/12/2008 11:22:07
#44
That would have required research - much better to copy some random fact from another source.

#42
Yes, for too long us 'doommongers' were ignored. Anyone saying anything negative to Brown's 'no more boom and bust' fake economy were viewed with a certain amount of contempt. Anyone with half an ounce of foresight and common sense who could see past the spin of this Government saw this coming years ago. Brown was warned but dismissed these warnings, somehow convincing himself that things were 'different this time'.
Sadly with Brown still at the helm I can see us getting into an even bigger mess in the future him throwing money we as a country do not have at it is not really going to work, in the long run it is all to be paid back.
51

Brideun,

Culloden 05/12/2008 11:23:52
#45 Are you nuts - basic rule in investment - the higher the return - the greater the risk. Are you sure you have not been sucked into a Ponzi scam?
52

Philmugla,

05/12/2008 11:46:44
Brideun....Too much insular thinking in the UK. Funds deposited in reputable banks to produce monthly income return with banks that are part owned by major European banks. Internet access and management, full branch network, goverment deposit insurance scheme. Why do you think that we don't tell anyone, just felt sorry for all the people over there suffering to stretch there retirement funds when with a little bravery, planning and willingness to get out of the UK things could be so much better for many people.
53

Edward,

05/12/2008 12:02:38
As a result of Brown and Darling's incompetance as wellas the Bank of England being compliant to Brown's demnds. The Pound is at an all time low and wil go lower due to the interest rate cuts. What does this mean to us? Well higher fuel costs - Oil is paid for in US Dollars, Higher Freight Costs - Freight bringing goods in from all over the world is paid in US Dollars as well as Euros. As we dont have much in the way of manufacturing, cost of goods will increase, as not only the goods are paid in US dollars, but the freight to carry the goods, as mentioned will increase
Well done Brown!
54

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 05/12/2008 12:19:03
bring prices down to 1951 levels and you will see people starting to buy stuff. 50" widescreen for 30 boab would suit me fine...
55

Edward,

05/12/2008 12:32:20
#55 & #56
Unfortunately were heading for Zimbabwe style prices
56

Dr Blockbuster aka Vince,

Edinburgh, but I missed Alistair at the Chamber of 05/12/2008 12:41:21
Hmmm ... Dr Blockbuster is going to have to write to Alistair Darling and Mervyn King again. Business lending has become akin to a writer getting his first book published >>> rejection after rejection with the banks only lending to "sure things", and in the meantime living on handling charges extorted from customers.
Stop these outrageous charges and return to normal lending NOW! <<< that's the message!
57

fritigern,

Inverness 05/12/2008 12:53:49
1. If the banks start giving mortgages at very low interest rates it will simply replicate the cause of the present slump. Millions of Americans were given very low interest mortagages without being told, or without being sophisticated enough to realise, that the interest rate could rise. When this happened they could not afford the increased payments.

2. Can't someone ask a member of the regime in London why people who have saved are being trested so badly whilst the rich bankers who caused the problems are allowed to keep their ill-gotten gains. Surely the first people to be penalised for the presnt economic climate are the bankers. Their previous bonuses should be seized under the Proceeds of Crime Act. Legally their first duty was to their shareholders, this they clearly did not perform but lent irresponsibly and awarded themselves huge bonuses for doing so. But, of course, nothing will be done by that war-criminal Brown who has spent the last 11 years sucking up to these bankers whilst taxing the working poor more and more at every opportunity. A dilemma I would have is whether he should be first indicted for war crimes or for criminal mismanagement of the British economy.
58

Bob M,

Paisley 05/12/2008 13:06:50
#55 - You'd struggle to get a TV set for 30 boab in 1951, they cost about the same as they do today!
59

The Strategist,

05/12/2008 13:24:07
#51 Liz

Eh? It was front page in the FT.. I read the FT online.
60

john birkett,

east neuk 05/12/2008 13:32:54
Re Background, King George IV was king in 1951? I think not!
61

Scimitar1,

05/12/2008 13:37:04
Reward irresponsible borrowers, greedy banks and incompetent government and hammer cautious hard working savers and fixed income pensioners. NuLab are finished after the GE.
62

Jacqueline Hyde ,

On the shelf 05/12/2008 13:46:04
Of course the banks can do as they wish. Thanks to the Bank Deposit Guarantee, the banks have got the government by the short and curlies because there is absolutely no way the government could possibly afford to meet its obligations under the guarantee if a bank goes down. The government has got no option other than to shore up and support these incompetent, self-serving, greedy management boards, whatever the cost.

Perhaps the government should announce that the Deposit Guarantee will end in, say, thirty days. Yes there would immediately be a massive run on some banks but the money has to go somewhere and the more ethical banks would not only survive but would be on a much sounder footing.

The current obsession with bank shares and share prices is no more than a rather obvious symptom of our deranged financial market. We shouldn't be concerned about shareholders who have, presumably, taken a calculated risk with their investments but we should be helping those savers who are being penalised by artificially low interest rates. We should be prepared to let the fittest banks thrive and accept all the pain of the others hitting the buffers.
63

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

05/12/2008 13:56:32
Politicians of all colour, aided and abetted by the media, were quite happy to participate in Brown's boom without voicing their concerns. The few voices outwith the parties, who did raise concerns were a small minority who were effectively silenced.

The Tories are now trying to pull the same trick that Blair did in 1997 - get elected without actually telling the electorate what your policies are. I can accept that many may want Labour and Brown out but they should do so in a positive manner - vote for what an opposition party is going to do - not vote for that party because they are not Labour. At least with the other opposition parties we know where they stand on the issues and policies.

As things stand I do not trust either of the two major political parties.


64

Jay Kay,

05/12/2008 14:09:29
More like Brown and Darling selling the UK to the Arabs for £1, hmm not sure the Dens will be happy to hear that though.
65

TheDisplacedGlaswegian,

Edinburgh 05/12/2008 14:13:01
For all you moaning savers out there, please remember that the interest rate cuts are to stimulate spending and thus lessen the effects of the recession.
What would you rather happen? The BoE do nothing to help because some people (with spare money) might be a bit miffed? We are in a recession - take the hit like everyone else. Like every other investment, sticking money in a savings account carries risk and you lot are doing no more than complaining that the risk you took on board has materialised (briefly)....
66

Alan B,

05/12/2008 14:16:11
#The Federalist

The only obvious problem with your argument is the vast majority of the public are economically illiterate.

As such you choose a party based on some vague promises and hope they do what they say on the tin. When they fail you vote in the other mob.

Without the huge ideological differences you vote for the best managers.

It is abit like a football team. If your manager is poor and loses games you want another and hope he will be better.

The public have alot to be responsible for aswell. By supporting Blair they told political parties we support you if you tell us nothing about what you really stand for and have little ideological stances.
67

Embra Don,

05/12/2008 14:21:34
#44 The Strategist
Strange that the "postponement" of the carrier contract was not mentioned before The Glenrothes bye-election. The It has already been announced (loudly with fanfares) on about five occasions. Don't hold your breath folks.
68

Alan B,

05/12/2008 14:22:44
#TheDisplacedGlaswegian

While you have a point. I think the issue is more 2 things

1)tax money being used to bail out those that took risks and not being prudent with their own affairs. As such there is an argument those who were prudent have to bail out those that took the risks that put the economy in the mess.

2)for yrs the media like the BBC would tell us every time that an interest rate cut was good news. In truth that was silly political posturing. An interest cut is bad for savers and good for borrowers and should be set for the wider economy.

Part of the issue is why is interest on savings in a bank taxed. You save and are prudent which is what the government should have been encouraging and you are hit.

Brown builds the economy on massive debt, the whole house of cards falls and then hits savers with lower interest rates to get him out the debt mess he created. So while i think lower interest rates are the best way to deal wiht the current crisis i can understand the anger the brown has caused.
69

B4 Part B,

05/12/2008 14:36:07
Given the Scotsman's well publicised campaign about keeping The Bank of Scotland brand and how it needs to have a headquarters in Scotland, I find it strange that it is not reporting this story..........
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7766585.stm
70

fritigern,

Inverness 05/12/2008 14:44:12
#63 What GE? Do you really believe that this regime isn't capable of "temporarily" postponing a General Election. It has got onto the Statute Book the "Civil Contingencies Act", its equivalent of Hitler's Enabling Act. It has got its cronies in position as Chief Constables to implement this Act. It is are quite prepared to search an MP's office without a warrant for revealing the cross incompetence of the civil service. It also has control of the BBC.
71

Libertarian!,

05/12/2008 14:59:03
Brown and Darling long time close friends are the root cause of the presnt perilous financial state the UK's now experiencing. Both should NEVER have been entrusted
with such important posts as the prosperity of the UK.
It was commonly known at the time, that Brown was only given the job in 1997 to pacify his resentment of Blair receiving the vital all important number one post of PM. He had scant knowledge whatever of any THING to do with finance and his dismal record over his years as Chancellor has proved the point.
Darling otherwise, has proven over the same period, he has failed in every post held during this era. It's no surprise to guess who has been his major backer in each post he has held.
Can one wonder why the Bankers now treat both with such contempt?
72

Liz,

Edinburgh 05/12/2008 15:09:59
#67
"spare money" ?!

Yes, people who have been sensible enough to not waste all their money on stuff they do not need are able to have savings in the bank. This should not be viewed in a negative light. They are the sensible ones who in the main have not been taking out mortgages/loans that they had no hope of paying back.

In a properly run economy these 'savings' are welcome as they allow investment and the money can be lent out by banks in the form of mortages and loans for things people really need. What is Brown going to do when all these 'savings' have been spent? Is the UK technically bankrupt?!

73

mike3,

05/12/2008 16:40:03
I think Halifax is paying 0.4% after tax on £100,000 in a savings account? If a 1% cut was made then they would be taking money out of the savings!
74

SouthernSkye,

05/12/2008 17:51:21
67 TheDisplacedGlaswegian

I see the idea however.....
I would e more likely to spend money IF my savings were getting a decent return. As it is I will slam a greater % of my income away in order to compensate for the lower return on the monies I do have in the bank.

I don't borrow. Except for the mortgage I had and one time £3000 as I needed a car asap to get to work (this was paid up within 6 months). The strategy this Govt. is using does not work.

If they wanted to make more "£'s in the pocket" available then the rates should have been left higher but income tax should have been reduced. the 10% income tax re-introduced. fuel duty reduced (er-go reducing delivery costs and food prices and consumer goods in general). 5% VAT on heating oil/domestic fuel should have been removed. THESE types of strategies would have given people more money available to pay their debts (for those that have them). Would have encouraged savers to deposit more into the banks (thus strengthening their position). The housing market would find a plateau and we would stand a chance of bucking the recession.
Would this not work?
75

Scimitar1,

05/12/2008 19:24:13
Savers should go elseware eg goldmoney.com. Gold bullion stored out of harms way in Zurich. Right now gold bullion stored well away from Gordon's sticky fingers seems like the most likely last currency standing. A Swiss internet account is fairly easy to open. One should get one's lifeboat strategy set up now even if you don't use it. It will be too late if/when the flight from sterling happens in earnest and exchange controls and bank holidays are on the agenda.

If you need anymore motivation to act have a read of this:
http://ferfal.blogspot.com/2008/11/despair-in-once-proud-argentina.html

76

I can see for miles,

05/12/2008 23:25:28
Splendid out of the box thinking from Brown and Darling.

Cheers
77

Buckfastleigh,

Deepest Devon 06/12/2008 09:31:24
It must be surely clear now to all that the Brown Chancellorship was an unmitigated disaster and the comment made by our friend says it all:

"There is now no shadow of a doubt that Scotland will fare much better out of the UK and fully intergrated in the EU. I trust the EU more than the political elite in Westminster who are driven by self interest and party dogma".

Why this ridiculous media putting of Brown on the "light of the World" pedestal in international finance? Is it originating from his own press releases?

Listening to some of the popular media you might believe that he has been telling the other Europeans at every stage on how to deal with the crisis; not a bit of it! But at least he has been doing what they have sensibly agreed to do.

He failed deliberately to join the € when he could have done and look at the mess we have been put in!

He must surely be punting on a General Election this spring. How irresponsible!

Are you still going to vote for him?


 

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