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Saltires 'could be banned' at Beijing Olympics

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Published Date: 04 August 2008
SCOTS cheering on their country's sporting heroes at the Olympics may not be able to wave Saltire flags inside Games' venues, it was claimed today.
A code of conduct for spectators laid down by the Organising Committee outlaws flags other than those of Olympic members.

And although the UK is a member country, Scotland is not a member in its own right.

Now SNP MSP Jamie Hepburn is writing t
o the International Olympic Committee and the British Olympic Association, urging them to challenge the rule – which would also ban English, Welsh and Northern Irish fans from waving their country's national flags.

In addition it would prevent the Tibetan flag from being displayed at events.

Mr Hepburn said: "Athletes from across Scotland and the rest of the UK will be taking part in the Beijing Olympics, and fans should be allowed to show their support by waving the national flag of their choice.

"With participants like Andy Murray often wearing Saltires on their kit as a symbol of national pride it will be a shame if fans are not able to echo that by waving Saltires from the stands.

"I will be writing to the British Olympic Association and the International Olympic Committee and urging them to challenge this ruling."

Mr Hepburn also wants the situation for sportsmen and women competing in the Games to be clarified.

The Central Scotland MSP said: "On previous occasions Scottish athletes have been prevented from sporting a Saltire – it would be unfortunate where any athlete to find themselves in that position again."

He went on: "The Olympics should be a global celebration of different cultures and nationalities with this meeting in Beijing offering an opportunity for dialogue over the future of Tibet.

"China's crackdown on any show of support for Tibet – including the flying of flags – is out of keeping with the Olympic spirit and will raise many ongoing concerns as to China's commitment to improve free speech and expression in the run up to the Games.

"That it will have this unfortunate side effect for anyone wanting to fly a Saltire or the English, Welsh or Northern Irish flag may focus people's minds on the need for further dialogue between China and Tibet."

The Organising Committee guidelines states that spectators should not bring the following to any events: "Flags of non-members of the Olympics or Paralympics; flags or banners larger than 2m x 1m; flagpoles; any banners, slogans, fliers, brochures or samples."



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  • Last Updated: 04 August 2008 5:06 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: 2008 Olympics
 
1

McMillar,

Fife 04/08/2008 17:56:07
So what? Athletes are representing team GB and Scotland is not a recognised entity. Could be worse…they may think we are European. However, no doubt a few saltires will be on display somewhere along with the welsh dragons.
2

Brodric,

04/08/2008 18:00:43
No 4 - shame on you. I would rather be thought of as European than British. The Great has gone out of Britain - now this represents old world, old thinking and evokes a lot of other negative connotations.


3

Stu_R_20,

Edinburgh 04/08/2008 18:04:43
Watch out for the EU brigade and their yellow stars.

#4
I agree, there is nothing great about Great Britain anymore, Ian Smith's autobiography encapsulates this idea perfectly.
South Korea here I come!
4

Tris,

04/08/2008 18:05:34

I'm with Spook. I'd eat my foot before I'd ever wave the union thing for fear someone would mistake me for a Tory or BNP or ukip member or one of these other nutter fringe parties.

Any Scots going should make sure that they are wearing Saltire t shirts/sweat shirts and shorts, and leave the flag waving to those who have a more respectable and respected flag.

Interesting that while there is not enough money to relieve pensioners of some of their worries about food inflation at 10% and fuel inflation at 35%, there seems to be any amount of money for the London Olympics to be paid for by all of US from taxes.

I wonder if, given the mess that Brown's in, he will still be going out there for the freeby at the opening?

5

Stu_R_20,

Edinburgh 04/08/2008 18:14:35
#8
One of those nutter 'fringe' parties you speak of will be in power in 2010, the others aren't anymore crazy than our current government that's for sure.
6

indune1,

Canada 04/08/2008 18:14:42

Ah, as the old lion dies, the jackals and hyenas circle.
7

Rufus T. Firefly,

04/08/2008 18:16:59
Scotland is not participating in the Olympics so whats the big deal?

The Union Flag is the flag of our country whether you like it or not.
8

roughrider,

Glasgow 04/08/2008 18:23:53
12. What a stupid comment.
9

Conan the Librarian™,

04/08/2008 18:27:07
12
We don't like it, and living in a democracy, we are going to change it.

PS How many atheletes are Freedonia sending Alfred?
10

grizz,

Pictish Country 04/08/2008 18:44:19
Do we really believe that the Chinese will ban the Saltaire from the Olympics as it has been flown at other Olympic games by the some of the crowd supporting Scottish sportsman.
11

,

04/08/2008 18:44:45
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12

Conan the Librarian™,

04/08/2008 18:47:58
20
#14
I believe the spelling is "Halfwit" halfwit.
13

Fifi la Bonbon,

04/08/2008 18:53:54
Somehow I don't imagine many SNP or BNP nutters will be travelling to China so it doesn't matter. It's the UK team that's participating so fly the union jack if you're feeling nationalistic. What kind of horrible person would only support Scottish or white team members anyway?
14

Boswall,

04/08/2008 18:58:03
#12 Conan

My fellow Brit, seeing as most semsible Scots think like me and we like the Union the flag stays.

It's far prettier than the Saltire anyway.

Oh and as far as anthems go, GSTQ and FoS are both uninspired garbage.
15

,

04/08/2008 18:58:23
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16

,

04/08/2008 18:59:15
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17

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04/08/2008 18:59:40
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18

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 04/08/2008 19:07:06

I can see their point, the flag in recent years has only been associated with thugs and hooligans.
shown at football matches.
19

AM2,

Scotland,UK 04/08/2008 19:07:22
I’m a no nationalist, but I can understand both why this kind of thing creates political tensions and why certain politicians might have a vested interest in fanning the flames.

But on the substance of the issue, to me it’s just not good enough for the IOC simply to refer the ISO 3166 list of nation states and then be rigid about it. I can understand the need to regulate such things, but shouldn’t the Olympic committee in each member country be able to provide a list?

In most countries there would still be just one flag, but in various others with some kind of federal or union structure things just aren’t that simple.

In our own case, I can understand why some unofficial flags might be contentious, but I can see no reason why the Union Flag, the Saltire, the Red Dragon and the Cross of St George shouldn’t be permitted.
20

AM2,

Scotland,UK 04/08/2008 19:08:46
I'm a no good at grammar either, apparently.
21

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 04/08/2008 19:12:11

AM2 ~34,

We have disgraced all Scottish flags, due to the few that have represented it while abroad, with 'hooliganism'

Why would any country want to represent a flag that is associated only with trouble?
22

Conan the Librarian™,

04/08/2008 19:15:31
24
Ah. Trying to associate two entirely different parties with extremely differing policies and ethics; by the fact that both have "NP" in their name.

Sad.

Fifi, I usually enjoy your posts...:-(

26
Boswall

"Freedom come all ye" is my personal choice for an anthem, and the Lion Rampant for flag.
23

Boggle fey the Bog,

04/08/2008 19:15:57
24 Fifi la Bonbon,04/08/2008 18:53:54

Whit are you on sunshine?

Whitever it is ye wantae stoap it, it's shrinking yer awready depletid grey stuff.

Did ye no hear thon maun tither day it's team GB, no team UK, an anither thing a jack is a thing that gets tied tae a peice a wid oan the bow o' a boat!
24

McMillar,

Fife 04/08/2008 19:17:11
Errrr, thanks #16. You keep supporting team Scotland at the Olympics and best of luck. If you are still confused then just make a few gold medals from cornflake box and crayons then wear them with pride when the Olympics start.
25

Boggle fey the Bog,

04/08/2008 19:20:15
41 Conan the Librarian™,04/08/2008 19:15:31

Agree on the anthem,

But not on the Rampant Lion, as it is the Standard of the Kings and Queens of Scotland, not the National Flag, which is the Saltire and has been for over 1100 years.
26

Continental,

04/08/2008 19:21:25
It is misunderstood that it is the Beijing Organising Committee who is enforcing the 'no flags' rule, when in actual fact the Sydney and Athens Organising Committees also had the same rule in place when they hosted the Games.

27

Conan the Librarian™,

04/08/2008 19:22:54
45
Thanks Spook.

Nuff said.
28

Boggle fey the Bog,

04/08/2008 19:25:46
Anyway I'l be flying my 'Union Flag' during the Olympics, only thing is my Union flag hasn't got the St. Patricks or St. Georges Cross on it, only St. Andys ;-0
29

AM2,

Scotland,UK 04/08/2008 19:26:16
#39 Spook

The Saltire, Red Dragon, Cross of St George and Union Flag are all official.

The Ulster Banner is no longer official, is rejected by many and would therefore be highly contentious. But I don't see why that thorny issue should prevent people from waving any of the four official flags I listed above.
30

AM2,

Scotland,UK 04/08/2008 19:27:14
#37 Charles Linskaill

Personally, I think hooligans disgrace only themselves.
31

Conan the Librarian™,

04/08/2008 19:30:54
46
Boggle
Of course the Saltire is Scotlands National flag.
But the Lion Rampant is prettier:-)

Why can't we use both?

Since there hasn't been a King of Scots proper since 1701.
32

AM2,

Scotland,UK 04/08/2008 19:34:14
#54 Spook

As I said, hooligans disgrace only themselves. Please don't take this personally, but it seems sad to me that you should want to associate the disgrace not with the individual himself but with whatever nation's flag he might have draped around himself.
33

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 04/08/2008 19:37:27
Oh happy days, Brown and Lord Fawlty have finally found a friend. The Oly-crats.
Put the Scot Nat upstarts in their place, ban their flag. Next stop the trains.
Now if they could only get the Chinese thugs to have a go at a bunch of Tibetan monks live on TV, life would be perfect. Like the Manchester police laying into the Rangers Firm.
Hey, isn't England's Scottish PM going to the Games? Don't forget your flag, Saggy Face.
34

AM2,

Scotland,UK 04/08/2008 19:42:29
#59 Neil Waugh

Re: "Put the Scot Nat upstarts in their place, ban their flag."

Erm, it's not the "Scot Nat" flag. It's the Scottish flag. It's for all of us.
35

AM2,

Scotland,UK 04/08/2008 19:43:46
#60 Spook

Fair enough. Cheers! Catch you later...
36

,

04/08/2008 19:52:04
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37

,

04/08/2008 20:00:13
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38

,

04/08/2008 20:08:00
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39

,

04/08/2008 20:17:42
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40

Conan the Librarian™,

04/08/2008 20:20:28
67
I believe it is to do with me being "wall eyed".

And perhaps red-eyed:-)
41

Weegiewarbler,

Sailing 04/08/2008 20:23:29
Is Scotland a country.

The United Nations says it is.

"The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (commonly known as the ' United Kingdom ', or ' UK ') is made up of the countries of England , Scotland , Wales and Northern Ireland . The term ' Great Britain ' is sometimes used to indicate England , Scotland and Wales"

can be found at (One Example - found in 10 seconds) www.unmck.or.
kr/eng/koreanwar_un
/korean_220.php

It was one before england.........

Discussion Over......
42

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04/08/2008 20:26:13
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43

danbob,

04/08/2008 20:35:31
What no posts from those two who claim to be posting from China. Mashimaro and his sidekick. Why ever not.
44

Conan the Librarian™,

In space, no one can eat ice cream. 04/08/2008 20:39:19
78
"Bagged a Ciderman"?

Sounds like something that used to happen in the GU's student union...
45

Fifi la Bonbon,

04/08/2008 20:45:06
#41 Conan the Librarian - sorry if I upset you.

My own view is that all the nationalistic palaver should be done away with but that's not the reality of the olympics. Our team is the British team, which, as I understand it, comprises members drawn from all parts of the United Kingdom.

There is a valid comparison between sectarian groups which would only support one element of the team, whether because of their colour or their country of birth. People who would only support a part of the team because of their tribal identity are pretty horrible in my opinion.

Wave your union jack with pride, and thank your lucky stars you live in the United Kingdom, the freest and funkiest permanent member of the UN Security Council in the world.
46

,

04/08/2008 20:52:05
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47

Fifi la Bonbon,

04/08/2008 21:00:42
84 - interesting if silly question.

First of all you describe me as a "Vichy type". Does that mean you consider me, and people like me who are non-nationalists, to be traitors? I have long suspected that many nationalists hold the view that people who disagree with them to be traitors, to be hunted down and made to suffer a traitor's fate.

Secondly, 1940 olympic games? I wasn't aware that games were held in 1940 but if I had been there I'd have been waving the union jack.
48

Senga Jean,

04/08/2008 21:02:02
Fifi Soooo British nationalism is not a "palaver" but Scottish is? Time for Logic 101 methinks.
49

Fifi la Bonbon,

04/08/2008 21:05:04
#85 Dane Bramage SNP Insider - I think you're being quite kind to Mr Salmond who is well aware of ther irereguar nature of some his fellow travellers.

A nationalist is a nationalist the whole world over. You are either for them or against them and if you are against them, or not prepared to acquiesce as they indulge their patriotic fervour, you are a traitor, and if they aren't hunting you down right now they're probably taking careful notes.
50

Fifi la Bonbon,

04/08/2008 21:07:21
#87 Senga Jean - excellent question. All nationalism is a palaver. It's all nonsense on stilts. But if we are represented by a team we should support the whole team, not the bits that look like us.
51

Beergoggles,

England 04/08/2008 21:08:23
#76

Ah, but was not Britain 'the country' before Scotland, Wales or England even existed?

For me, the Ancient Britons were the original people of this island, before certain self-proclaimed rulers declared themselves as kings and kindly divided the island up for us all.

Still, I guess it's what we each want to believe.

Do you think they'll mind if I was to wave all 4 flags simultaneously? How about if I was to fly the Isle of Man flag? Will they stop that?
52

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04/08/2008 21:08:30
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53

Conan the Librarian™,

04/08/2008 21:11:47
86
Fifi, there was an Olympic games in 1940, held in a German prisoner of war camp amongst the multi-national prisoners taken in the Blitzkreig.

I don't know who won the Pole vault though(groan).
54

Boggle fey the Bog,

04/08/2008 21:12:24
55 Conan the Librarian™,04/08/2008 19:30:54

I have no problem with Scotland and our good people, using the Rampant Lion Standard, but some non-republicans might have a problem with it ;-), or some republicans for that matter ;-)), and I'm a wee bit of a 'traditionalist' that way :-0.

(Efter aw yin o' ma forebears wis merrit oan tae the Bruce, weel his daughter Maggie in fact!!!)

I've got loads of them maself in ma 'home' bar, all printed in China, along with Saltires, Embra Castle and a strange image that is supposed to represent Glesga (a think it's supposed tae be the Armadillo), on my 'beer mats' (coasters if ya wanna be PC) ;-)

.
55

,

04/08/2008 21:12:29
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56

AJ Fife,

04/08/2008 21:12:29
Fifi & Dane,

You two are pure dead mental by the way!

For the record, you'll be first up against the wa'!!! :D
57

Fifi la Bonbon,

04/08/2008 21:15:12
#91 - they will hunt people down if they get the chance. Most people keep their heads down in places like this - AM2 who posts here actually has a stalker. In real life elected members like that Moffat woman in East Lothian has had to put up with horrible attacks for being uncomplimentary in public.

In most cases you can have strong political disagreements with people and part amicably. With some nationalists, they perceive you as a traitor and it is so much more vicious. It literally is tribal, and while that sort of thing is hardly new in historical terms to Scotland we might have hoped it had been retricted to "prods v. kafflicks".

It's OK if you keep your identity well hidden but you wouldn't want to meet them in real life.
58

,

04/08/2008 21:15:25
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59

,

04/08/2008 21:15:26
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60

AJ Fife,

04/08/2008 21:18:57
Hi Canky,

The bairns are safely tucked up, so I can patrol the boards and take notes aboot Uuionists like Fifi and Dane!

Do you have a pen handy?
61

Fifi la Bonbon,

04/08/2008 21:18:58
Of course the nats will now behave like innocent social democrats who never stalked anyone in their lives!
62

AJ Fife,

04/08/2008 21:19:34
100!!!
63

AJ Fife,

04/08/2008 21:20:03
Yer bawz!
64

Fifi la Bonbon,

04/08/2008 21:20:12
Nobody give your right name!
65

Conan the Librarian™,

04/08/2008 21:22:44
94
Cankers
Would that be red teddys?

http://tinyurl.com/5uspp9
66

,

04/08/2008 21:25:25
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67

AJ Fife,

04/08/2008 21:25:51
Hoi Fifi,

Dinny you worry hen, wee Eck has your number! Ye've been picked on the SNP's special £rse-alert satellite! Ye've got a ladder in yer tights ya tink!

Those tights must be awfy uncomfy for yer cream crackers!
68

AJ Fife,

04/08/2008 21:27:46
Canky,

A 'u' is an upside doon 'n'!

It's no easy practicing yer yoga and postin' at the same time!
69

Nevsky,

Moscow 04/08/2008 21:29:58
Perhaps this is the 'creeping hand' of Unionism at work. It is never far below the surface is it AM2?
70

,

04/08/2008 21:32:23
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71

,

04/08/2008 21:38:07
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72

weeshooie1,

Wollongong 04/08/2008 21:39:06
I hiv jist removed mini spring rolls an dim sims fae ma menu in protest :0(

Hi Canky, Hullawrerr AJ :0)
73

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04/08/2008 21:40:49
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74

Rufus T. Firefly,

04/08/2008 21:43:12
Hey Nevsky, did the salt mine close early tonight?

Another great post.
75

Rufus T. Firefly,

04/08/2008 21:45:17
Well if the SNP have their way, not only will we have our own Olympic team, but we will have our own entry in the Eurovision Song Contest.

Two worthwhile causes.
76

,

04/08/2008 21:45:27
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77

Rufus T. Firefly,

04/08/2008 21:46:59
Then, maybe we will get our chessmen back, and then maybe they will stop flying the Union Jack higher than the Saltire on Edinburgh Castle,

Another 2 worthwhile causes.
78

Helmut B.,

Germany 04/08/2008 21:48:20
# 4

>Could be worse…they may think we are European.<

Aren't you?

>However, no doubt a few saltires will be on display somewhere along with the welsh dragons.<

Fair enough. Regional colours should be flown.

Helmut (from Franconia, Germany, Europe, World)
79

AJ Fife,

04/08/2008 21:53:26
#111,

Haw Weeshooie, awrite thair pal?

Long time nae post? Hooz Doon-unner? Did ye see Scotland's No1 scoop the big prize in Cincinatti? Kin ye believe Fifi n' Dane Brammer? Thair the best the onionist's lunatic fridge hiv got! LOL
80

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04/08/2008 22:09:40
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,

04/08/2008 22:15:15
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sonofhamish,

edinburgh 04/08/2008 22:16:26
#1 yep so now you will just be mistaken for a bigoted scot nat stuck in the past.
83

AJ Fife,

04/08/2008 22:16:53
Canky,

Aye, it's a rare place right enough!
84

The Canadian,

04/08/2008 22:29:30
What is so important about a flag? Surely there is more to living than a piece of coloured cloth. Get a life.
85

,

04/08/2008 22:47:38
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86

Iainbroch,

Moray 04/08/2008 22:54:23
Screamin Lord Haw Haw Fookes will rest easy tonight safe in the knowledge that the SNP will not be able to brainwash one and half billion Chinese! Or the billions that watch any olympic event!

Anyone for steroids?
87

St. George,

England 04/08/2008 22:55:08

54. There were saltires being carried by Rangers supporters in Manchester. Unfortunately, I happened to be driving through Manchester on the day of the Scottish riots.
88

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 04/08/2008 22:58:20
Does anybody really think that the Chinese are going to bother stopping folk waving Saltires, especially if they think there is a chance that it's going to get up the noses of the British authorities and some of it's supporters...........get real!
89

Iainbroch,

Moray 04/08/2008 23:00:23
re86

Anybody who sells out there own kind is a traitor! Look up a dictionary if you need some help understanding the concept. Related words - quisling, vichy. I am sure there are others!

But that is to miss the point entirely as some of us dont care to live our lives on our knesbeing slaves or worse - sucking Unionist c!!!
90

steve52,

Kinfauns 04/08/2008 23:00:44
Well at least Lord Foulks ( he that has never had a real job) will be happy by this announcement. Dont want those nasty nationalists taking over China next or spreading their propaganda do we!!!!

What we want is respectible people who, when they are in a foreign country, will represent our country in a good light and not lye steaming drunk in the gutter.
91

Iainbroch,

Moray 04/08/2008 23:19:38
I will not watch the olympics anyway - have not done so for over twenty years now.

I think that the Union Jack should be banned from Olympics as it has an elements of the Saltire and the cross of St.George in it and it is an obvious SNP/Tory Plot to brainwash the whole planet!
92

Senga Jean,

05/08/2008 00:00:11
Beware the Unionist trolls pretending that the SNP has a darker side than the Social Democratic reality. The Unionist know their origins and who it was that taught the best way to propagate a lie and it will be believed is to repeat it three times. In Glasgow East the "bus pass" lie was repeated a thousand times but the voters were clever enough to see Labour at its cheating best. Beware of TROLLS!
93

Royster,

05/08/2008 00:13:24
Doesn't this mean that the St George Cross will also be banned?
94

TheScotsman,

scottish borders 05/08/2008 00:24:07
Another unbiased article from the Scotsman to scare nationalists into thinking the country will not be recognised by the rest of the world.
95

TheScotsman,

scottish borders 05/08/2008 00:55:36
test
96

TheScotsman,

scottish borders 05/08/2008 01:10:11
test2
97

AM2,

Scotland,UK 05/08/2008 01:20:11
#96 Fifi la Bonbon

You said: "AM2 who posts here actually has a stalker"

Indeed. Today he followed me from here into the blogosphere. He also claims to have had lunch with the First Minister last week. I can't comment on whether anyone's "taking careful notes" but there's definitely a sinister edge to some of this stuff.
98

Vincent De Vroey,

Brussels / Flanders 08/08/2008 11:20:42
As a Fleming, I fully shares the Scottish frustration. It is not up to the Chinese or the Olympic Committee to interfere with politics.

The Flemish Lion Flag should be allowed, along other regional flags, so that Flemish supports can waive their flag for their atheletes.

The Belgian flag does not mean anything to me. It is an artificial flag of an artificial nation which will disappear!

Vincent De Vroey

 

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