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Scotland could lose £500m as 'efficiency savings' take effect

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Published Date: 25 November 2008
SCOTLAND'S budget could be cut by £500 million as a result of the changes announced by Alistair Darling, it was claimed last night.
SNP ministers are concerned that the Chancellor's plan to cut £5 billion from government budgets in 2010-11 through efficiency savings will result in a £500 million cut in Scotland – 10 per cent of the UK total.

John Swinney, the Finance Secreta
ry, said: "We are extremely worried about the consequences of the reduction in UK departmental spending in 2010-11, which could see a cut of up to £500 million in the Scottish Government's budget over and above any reprofiling of spending just as we expect the economy to be emerging from very difficult conditions."

Mr Swinney said he welcomed steps to boost the economy, including the cut in VAT, but he said more could have been done to help families cope with fuel bills and more targeted at the housing market.

However, Jim Murphy, the Scottish Secretary, said that the Pre-Budget Report's proposals would boost the Scottish economy by £2 billion.

He conceded there would be future "belt tightening" in UK government expenditure and that would include Scotland; and he admitted that could affect future block grant payments from the UK Treasury to Scotland.

But he also welcomed changes which would allow capital expenditure to be brought forward, as well as the cut in VAT from 17.5 per cent to 15 per cent, a change he claimed would mean a £275 boost for the average family next year.

Mr Murphy said: "These measures are proof this government is taking decisive action to protect businesses, both small and large, jobs, homes and our future stability and prosperity.

"This means the average Scottish family will better off. It will see a £600 increase in the income tax personal allowance is made permanent with a further rise in the future, as well as increases in Child Benefit and the basic state pension."

The Conservatives focused on the Chancellor's downgrading of the UK tax take and warned that this would leave a new £300 million black hole in the Scottish Government's local income tax (LIT) plans.

Derek Brownlee MSP said: "The SNP cannot hide from reality any longer. It is time to kill off LIT, and concentrate on the Conservative solution of cutting and reforming council tax."


THE PRE-BUDGET REPORT: FULL COVERAGE



Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 25 November 2008 12:23 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Economic indicators
 
1

Rufus T. Firefly,

24/11/2008 23:00:34
Looks like its time for the SNP Begging Bowl to come out again.

http://i33.tinypic.com/2aa0d3o.jpg
2

,

25/11/2008 00:25:38
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
3

Millerman1,

25/11/2008 00:54:51
2#

Glenrothes- a place the snp will never EVER forget.lol.

Union is Best.
4

Dark Lochnagar,

25/11/2008 01:57:43
Aye, unionists that's it. Keep on making the case for independendence. If you had brains you'd be lethal.
5

Dark Lochnagar,

25/11/2008 02:15:22
#1 Rufus, we would go the same place as Broon, the Arabs. Sorry, forgot. They wouldn't have to lend to a country rich in oils, gas and renewables. Tw@t.
6

steve 1511,

aberdeen 25/11/2008 06:09:00
WERE DOOMED WITH BROON .DOOMED
7

Angleland Isover,

25/11/2008 06:33:50
labour are looking to the future-only in so far as Scotland's share of the u.k debt that will have to be paid back to warmonger come Independence.
8

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 25/11/2008 08:02:41
1

That's a disingenious comment. Over the years of Westminster rule, they have ensured that we have little in the way of commercial productivity and made sure we became an extension of thier civil service. That is why so many people work in the public sector and not the private sector (because we don't really have one thanks to Westmonster).

We became a socialist society whereby we live on handouts from the government of some kind (whether benefits or public body employment).

Darlings budget by way of cutting public spending is worrying as our private secotr ha been decimated over the years by Westmonster. Salmond et al has little choice but to question the budget and public spending, something that the Labour leader in Scotland will also do (and would alos do if they were still in power).

What Salmond should do is actually cut the tax rate here to attract all the disenfranchised big earners in England who are about to be hit with massive tax hikes to pay for all this lovely money Broon et al are dishing out.
9

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 25/11/2008 09:50:17
We should be dancing in the streets at the fact that our politicians are having to find savings !

The fact is that government waste is pandemic and it is long overdue that budgets should be slashed to bring them back in to the realms of reasonable affordability !
10

person who's right,

Edinburgh 25/11/2008 09:57:50
Jim Murphy's comment that 'the average Scottish family will be better off’ is simply bizarre – he’s either trying to pull the wool over our eyes or is just economically illiterate.

What’s happened is that taxpayers have been given some money now, but will have to pay it back (plus interest) over the coming years.

If I borrow money on my credit card, (thereby having more money in my hand right now but a bigger debt to pay back in years to come), does it make me better off? Of course not. In fact, given that I have to pay it back plus interest, it makes me worse-off than I was before.
11

Darien,

Panama 25/11/2008 10:43:23
#1 "Looks like its time for the SNP Begging Bowl to come out again."

The reality of an unequal union is that Scots are always seen as trying to get more resources through the umbilical chord connected to Mummy Westminster. But this is not a mature relationship between equals, because what Scotland gets is dependent on what the 'parent' wants to give. And now we know that the Mummy has no more to give! As the child has been unruly of late (SNP government), it was already being penalised. But is the 'child' yet mature enough to wander off into the big bad world on its own? Or will it always cower back to Mummy's chord (a la Glenrothes)? Is Scotland still just a big boy with no backbone?
12

Guga II,

Rockall 25/11/2008 12:03:09
The Quisling Maggie Broon is getting us deeper and deeper into debt, the recession is beginning to bite, job losses are increasing, repossessions are increasing, and the pound is falling through the floor, and that numpty Murphy is trying to tell us we'll all be better off.

What planet are the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party living on?

It's time we stopped subsidising the English. Independence now!
13

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

25/11/2008 12:13:22
The efficiency gains would be £516 million based on the Barnett formula. With a predicted budget of £32 billion next year that would be efficiency savings of 1.6%. John Swinney was already trying to achieve efficiency savings of 2% this year.

Something will have to give as you cannot have both efficiency savings. Swinney's efficiency savings were used to part-finance his budget so it is going to mean that some of the SNP's policies are either going to be pushed down the priority list or fall off altogether so as to maintain their flagship Council tax freeze policy.
14

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 25/11/2008 12:51:21
13 - yes, you are right. The SNP will need to re-visit some of their policies, in just the same way that the UK govt will, and local authorities will. All Departments across the board will, in fact.

But wait for the headlines hammering the ''nats'' for ''broken promises''. Exclusively.
15

Miss H,

25/11/2008 13:20:57
13 Not sure it is the same thing. The SNP is running the efficiency saving programme on the basis that the cash is retained by the body that makes the savings so LAs keep their efficiency savings, health board savings go to fund health spending etc.

How is the Westminster stuff going to work? Will they just top slice an amount off the top of budgets?

Politically that will not be the end of the world for the SNP. They simply say Westminster is taking half a billion pounds away from Scotland. It is Labour that would have the political difficulty with that particularly in the run up to a Scottish election.

But in any case I think this Brown bounce will last precisely as long as it takes for people to work out how much the UK is now in debt.
16

Shaken,

25/11/2008 13:51:38
Rufus

You are living or were living in England right?

It's the only reason you would relish that Scotland have to go to Westminster cap in hand as we have done for centuries.


Decisions made in London come home to roost in Scotland. Why does this delight you?

The reason I ask is that this is pretty fundamental to why the SNP continue to run Holyrood.

Your reaction is akin to a hostage falling in love with his captors if your Scottish I feel sorry for you as the bullied kid at school who would love to be with the popular kids.
17

Rufus T. Firefly,

25/11/2008 13:59:26
16 Shaken,25/11/2008 13:51:38
You are living or were living in England right?

WRONG

"It's the only reason you would relish that Scotland have to go to Westminster cap in hand as we have done for centuries."

WRONG. I am relishing nothing. The UK Government resides in Westminster. So whats the problem? Its a normal situation.


"Decisions made in London come home to roost in Scotland. Why does this delight you?"

Where did I say I was delighted? Once again the UK Government resides in Westminster. So whats the problem? Its a normal situation.

"The reason I ask is that this is pretty fundamental to why the SNP continue to run Holyrood."

The SNP could not run a raffle. We are lucky they have no powers.

"Your reaction is akin to a hostage falling in love with his captors if your Scottish I feel sorry for you as the bullied kid at school who would love to be with the popular kids."

Sounds like this is one of your life experiences you are describing.
18

Miss H,

25/11/2008 14:08:40
Rufus

The total national debt of the UK has now passed £1 trillion.

That is not normal.

Serious questions now have to be asked about whether the UK can afford to remain an independent country.

Can Scotland actually survive as part of the UK?

Even those who fear that Scotland would make a mess of things as an independent country are surely questioning whether it is still in our best interests to be run from Westminster. OK you don’t believe that Scots are capable of running Scotland but, on the basis of the evidence, neither is Westminster.

So what country do you think we should ask to govern us instead?
19

Rufus T. Firefly,

25/11/2008 14:54:16
Miss H you worry too much.

The UK has had much higher National debt in the past e.g. after second world war is was over 150% of GDP.

We did not end up living in caves, did we?
20

antifa,

25/11/2008 15:04:11
"The total national debt of the UK has now passed £1 trillion."

No it hasn't.

"Serious questions now have to be asked about whether the UK can afford to remain an independent country."

By 2014 debt is set to rise to 57% of GDP. That's about the EU average and within the Maatricht fiscal criteria, which is generally considered to be fairly conservative. But don't let facts get in the way of a hysterical post.

Guga - "It's time we stopped subsidising the English."

Do you seriously think that with Scottish banks being bailed out by the UK govt(see RBS news today) and oil at 50% of the price it was six months ago, that Scotland is bailing out the English (and Welsh and N. Irish by extension, though you carefully avoid mentioning them)?

With what is England being bailed out? What riches exist here that our neighbours down south can't do without? If you look at GERS you see that oil revenues and money from financial services is pretty much cancelled out by the fiscal flows from HMT.

Reduce those elements by just 1% and Scotland heads into deficit.

For god's sake, if we're heading for independence let's do it with our eyes open, rather than pretending that Scotland is fabulously rich while sneering at England for being crushingly poor.
21

ochone,

Sauchie clack's 25/11/2008 15:05:45
Of course it's not the SNP's begging bowl, it's Scotlands, and the real shame is that unionists won't admit that it is because of the union that Scotland has to beg and for what is rightfully it's own, in the first place.

It's also shamefull that thanks to the union and it's many dividends that the economy which was in a mess before yesterdays report, shows every indication of getting far worse before it will show any sign of getting better, if it ever does.

It's also shameful that there is no word on cutting back on things like the Olympics, (Scotlands good causes money would have been welcome more than ever now), no cutting back on trident either and no way will we quit Iraq etc.

It's also shameful that the unionists who come on here
should rejoice that there is so much trouble around simply because they think it shows the SNP in a bad light! whilst at the same time they come out with the same old jibes which merely serves to show how ignorant and hypocritical they are.

It's true what they say, you can always tell a unionist, but you can't tell them much.

22

Rufus T. Firefly,

25/11/2008 15:14:11
"22 ochone,Sauchie clack's 25/11/2008 15:05:45
It's also shameful that the unionists who come on here
should rejoice that there is so much trouble around simply because they think it shows the SNP in a bad light!"

Who is rejoicing where?

What nonsense!

Just because we know that SNP are hopelessly inept and that an independent Scotland would have gone under does not mean anybody is rejoicing.
23

antifa,

25/11/2008 15:26:17
"It's also shameful that the unionists who come on here
should rejoice that there is so much trouble around."

Yes, I agree, but you'd have to admit quite a few Nats quite like seeing the UK in trouble, too. An increase in child poverty in England would be sneeringly welcomed by many Nats, it seems.
24

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 25/11/2008 15:26:48
I wonder what makes any unionist think that they or any of the parties they support have the right to try and lecture others about how an economy should be run, when the proof is there, (not just unproven acusations), that none of then have been any good at it for decades, and not just in the current times.

Three day weeks, loans from the IMF, the gnomes of Zurich coming over to run things for a while, black Wednesday, etc etc, etc, ring a few bells?

Especially when most of them won't even say what unionist party it is that they support
25

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 25/11/2008 15:27:09
21 antifa,

The RBS is beyond Scottish. It's the 2nd largest in the UK and the EU and 5th in the World.

That means there is proportional RBS bank usage throughout the whole of the UK so not only are Scottish RBS bank users being bailed out, so are English, Welsh and N Irish ones.

Same goes for the Lloyds TSB take over of HBOS.

Does you brain get around that fact or is it a question of carrying on with the same lies and spin that England are bailing out Scotland

Rufass

SNP begging bowl? That be the same begging bowl handed to them from the Labour party that used to run the Scottish Executive in the same Parliament building then?

Get over yourself.
26

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 25/11/2008 15:28:43
24 antifa

What a silly and undignified comment. Be ashamed.
27

Rufus T. Firefly,

25/11/2008 15:35:04
"26 Donnie Murdo,Western Isles 25/11/2008 15:27:09

The RBS is beyond Scottish. It's the 2nd largest in the UK and the EU and 5th in the World."

WHAT? ARE YOU MAD?

RBS is the second largest bank in the EU and 5th largest in the world?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Where have you been over the last year?

What an idiot.

You dont half talk some dross.

Have you heard of the credit crunch?
28

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 25/11/2008 15:39:32
28 Rufus T. Firefly

Good comeback. So good, I will ask you the prove your assertion that it's not the case.

In order to help get YOUR brain(and the brains of your other id's here) around it, listen up.

The funding recieved from the government to bail out the bank is proportional. Therefore, for every 1 Scottish customer benefitng from the bail out, 10 English customers recieve the benfit too.

Thew bank (all banks) are in trouble but that doesn't mean that the customers using those banks have fled. Nope, they still have to service the customers therefore the governmnet bail out is bailing out England, Wales and N Irland as well as Scotland.

Do you understand? Probably not. Prove yourself.
29

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 25/11/2008 15:41:35
BTW

It's not a "credit crunch" it's actually a big old "recession".

There is a difference.

In your own words, what an idiot, you don't have talk some dross.
30

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 25/11/2008 15:46:10
Anyone consulting their history books will see that after the war the British economy, like most of the rest of Europes was helped out (sone claim rescued) by something from America called the Marshall Plan.

What's even more illuminating is that there are those who now say that British governments wasted the opportunities that this could have provided whilst other countries who were in an even worse state put it to far better use.

I suggest that any unionsit who still wants to argue from the heights (supposed) of British economic genuis goes and looks up some information on this era and they will quickly see that the same types of mistake are still being made today.

Of course they won't admit it, not when most of them don't even have the courage to tell us what party they support.
31

Rufus T. Firefly,

25/11/2008 15:46:39
29 Donnie Murdo,Western Isles 25/11/2008 15:39:32

Lets make it simple for you.

Current Market Capitilisations
==============================
HSBC £78,667.63 million
Barclays £12,262.71 million
Lloyds £8,815.93 million
RBS £8,407.17 million

Check it here

http://www.digitallook.com

So RBS is only number 4 in the UK, never mind 2nd in the EU.

Thanks for brightening up my day, I needed a good laugh.
32

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 25/11/2008 15:49:29
And what Churchill said on Scotch Whisky exports in 1944

"On no account reduce the amount of barley for whisky. This takes years to mature and is an invaluable export and dollar producer. Having regard to all our other difficulties about exports, it would be most improvident not to preserve this characteristic British element of ascendancy."
33

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 25/11/2008 15:53:13
32 Rufus T. Firefly,

Yeah, ok. You better tell Bloomberg then

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601102&sid=atzdr0hf986o&refer=uk
34

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 25/11/2008 15:57:37
"Thanks for brightening up my day, I needed a good laugh." - Rufass

Read some of your own ill thought out, potentially Scottish hating, anti-SNP, copied and pasted comments then. Works for me!
35

Miss H,

25/11/2008 16:53:24
21 You are right - it is not actually at £1 trillion yet. It will reach 1,020 billion (just over £1 trillion) by 2012-13, with a further rise to £1,084 billion projected the following year.

In other words national debt will have doubled from last year to over a trillion pounds.

The OECD is warning that the UK's economic will fall more sharply than any other G7 country.

The IMF forecasts a drop in output of 1.3%.

Rather than being better placed to recover from the recession than other western industrialised nations, they are saying that the recession is going to be worse in the UK than in other nations.

So I say again - can the UK really afford to be independent?

Maybe it is time to ask another country to take on the task of governing us.



36

Rufus T. Firefly,

25/11/2008 17:24:47
34 Donnie Murdo,

"Yeah, ok. You better tell Bloomberg then

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601102&sid=atzdr0hf986o&refer=uk"

Well Donnie I checked that page and indeed you are an idiot. It is a month old when RBS share price WAS higher.

In addition you clearly cant read.

I have cut and pasted it for you. Get somebody to read the bit in capitals to you you dimwit.

Royal Bank of Scotland Plc (RBS LN): BRITAINS SECOND LARGEST BANK BEFORE THIS YEARS 84 PERCENT DECLINE may need to write down the value of assets by between 4 billion pounds and 5 billion pounds in the second half of the year, the Financial Times reported, citing analysts it didn't identify. The shares fell 6.2 pence, or 9.3 percent, to 60.8.

You really are an idiot.
37

Scunnert,

25/11/2008 17:50:08
What a couple of poseurs Darling and Broon are. They just make it up as they go along - no real plan - no foresight - just spin and soundbites. They save the venom for Scotland. The increase in duty on a bottle of whisky this year is the highest since the early seventies.
38

,

25/11/2008 21:45:06
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
39

Tobe ornot,

Canada 25/11/2008 22:35:35
Just read the pre-budget report in The Guardian. Winter fuel allowance 400 pounds + an extra 60 pounds for pensioners (120 / couple)by January 09. You should live in Canada - pensioners get nothing for fuel allowance and it is colder here than anywhere.
40

A Better Way,

Edinburgh 26/11/2008 03:15:56
Its not enough that Unionists like Rufus and his like gloat at the fact that the British Depression could save their beloved UK. They then try to attack the SNP Government of Scotland for merely wanting to enhance the Scottish Nations well being.

Its time you Unionists started to explain the FACTS on how Broon advocated his spend spend spend philosophy for the last eleven years, and bankrupted what was then a moderately successfull economy they inherited from the Tories.

Brown has tried to play the role of a world leader, and has failed miserably. The UK is currently run by a Vegetable Government full of incompetent Politicians. The United Kingdom is finished and Brown hopes he can cling on to the Euro Empire, to extend his career.

The Unionists on here are either not Scottish, nor have they any interest in the welfare of the Scottish People. They simply are so biased towards the UK, they publish ANTI SCOTTISH rubbish on these forums on a daily basis.

Keep the Scots Down and out, then rule the UK. Its no wonder that many Scots are pathetic little mice squeaking after their London Masters, and looking for the next handout. Still thats not as bad as pathetic scottish rats who care only for their bank account from Westminster.
41

A Better Way,

Edinburgh 26/11/2008 03:27:25
Aye Millerman your dead right. But exactly why do you gloat about Scots who simply want to run their own affairs, in a way that will be better for the Nation.

I suppose your London Controlled Party will never forget Glasgow East or who is in Government in Scotland.

What we will never forget the mistakes that were made in Glenrothes.

We will monitor London Labours collection of postal vote forms, that they filled in on behalf of Pensioners and the ill. Thats right New Labour done their usual by using the less firm in the community, for their own ends. AFTER 50 YEARS OF NEW LABOUR CORRUPTION, WHO COULD BE SURPRISED.

 

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